There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming

Summary

The Ramsey Show — Episode Summary

Title: There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming
Date: January 14, 2026
Host: George Kamel (Ramsey Network), with Dr. John Delony

Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show tackles the feeling of hopelessness and overwhelm that comes with debt and financial breakdowns, both large and small. George Kamel and Dr. John Delony field live calls from listeners with real-life money struggles — ranging from predatory loan debt and marital secrecy to mental health-triggered spending, tricky housing repairs, and the challenge of building back after bankruptcy or job loss. The hosts approach each story with empathy and tough love, guiding callers through Ramsey’s “Baby Steps” and emphasizing restored hope, practical next steps, and rebuilding trust, both financially and relationally.

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Key Discussion Points & Caller Segments

1. Hidden Debt, Broken Trust, and Marital Reconciliation

Time: [00:37–08:36]

• Caller: Jeff (Jacksonville, FL) discovers his wife has amassed $300,000 in predatory loans taken over a decade, entirely in secret.
• Issues: Secrecy, separate finances, trust crash, huge debt upon retirement.
• Advice:
  • Ownership: Stop blaming the lenders—yes, the loans were predatory, but the repeated decisions and secrecy are the real wounds to address.
  • Financial Reconciliation: Combine finances immediately, begin strict budgeting, both may need to return to work.
  • Negotiation: Jeff has started negotiating settlements, reducing the total possibly to $150–170k, but lump sums required.
  • Avoid trapping debt with more debt: No second mortgage or dipping into retirement.

Notable Quote:

"This is a daily practice that happened over a daily deception that happened over a decade. Blaming it on the lenders right now is just a distraction from the problem you two have together."
— Co-host/Financial Expert [05:07]

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2. Relationship Detachment, Mental Health, and Survival Mode

Time: [10:20–19:46]

• Caller: Andy (NYC) struggles with a disconnected marriage—his wife doesn’t help at home, plays video games all day, attends counseling, and finances are underwater post-bankruptcy.
• Issues: Emotional distance, mental illness, persistent debt, feelings of helplessness.
• Advice:
  • Address the “us” problem through gentle communication and possibly joint counseling.
  • Clearly define boundaries and "or what" statements (deciding what you will and will not accept).
  • Own choices: Stop absolving self of responsibility; focus on what you can control.

Notable Quote:

"Continually fighting without an anchor point is... not getting y’all anywhere. In fact, it’s making everything worse."
— Co-host/Financial Expert [16:04]

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3. Mental Health-Induced Debt Spiral

Time: [21:37–30:55]

• Caller: Alicia (Chicago) experienced a manic episode due to bipolar disorder and now faces $5800 in high-interest loans plus other debts.
• Issues: Impact of health on finances, payday loan trap, low income, instability.
• Advice:
  • Stay on medications and keep up with therapy (“commit to the plan”).
  • Fund $1,000 emergency savings, move aggressively toward paying down smallest debts first (“Baby Steps” method).
  • Prioritize income (consider working more temporarily), avoid further debt, and use tools like EveryDollar for budgeting.

Notable Quotes:

"I want you to commit to me and George and everyone listening, you’re gonna stay on the plan. Okay?"
— Co-host/Financial Expert [24:16]
"This is literal poverty. And that’s the exact target demo these payday lenders go after because they’re the most vulnerable, the most desperate."
— George Kamel [29:10]

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4. Prioritizing Retirement Savings vs. Down Payment

Time: [33:08–36:41]

• Caller: Karen (Denver) and husband want to start saving for retirement, but money is tight due to home savings goals.
• Advice:
  • If in Baby Step 3B (saving for a house), you may split the difference and invest some but not all toward retirement.
  • Make sure the down payment timeline is realistic; invest at least to employer match and use calculators to project long-term results.

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5. Emergency Home Repairs While in Debt

Time: [37:00–42:01]

• Caller: Silas (Des Moines) discovers foundation issues at home; repairs quoted $12–24k with just $1,000 saved and $9k in other debts.
• Advice:
  • Pause debt payoff if needed for real emergencies.
  • Get a neutral inspector’s opinion before shelling out for costly work.
  • Ratchet up income and seek all potential help/resources.

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6. Navigating Unexpected Job Loss with Heavy Student Debt

Time: [54:14–61:27]

• Caller: Jamie (Chicago) faces imminent layoff with large student debt ($142k), small mortgage, and a modest emergency fund.
• Advice:
  • Treat this as a true emergency: Immediate job search, any work (not just “career” jobs), dual approach (apply for short-term jobs while also looking for long-term fit).
  • Use severance as a runway, not a lifeboat to coast without income.
  • Keep moving—action beats paralysis.

Notable Quotes:

"What we’re not going to do is turtle up. ...We’re not looking for careers. We’re looking for two jobs that we’re going to go to in the morning and in the evening and we’re going to feel the social anxiousness. We’re going to feel it and then we’re going to go through it because we have an emergency on our hands."
— Co-host/Financial Expert [57:14]

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7. Rebuilding Marital Trust After Divorce & Debt

Time: [65:57–74:36]

• Caller: Lee (San Antonio) seeks advice on blending finances upon reconciling with her husband after divorce, given past money mismanagement.
• Advice:
  • Restoring trust is a journey, not a single event; needs tangible steps, repeated over time, with humility.
  • Lay out and agree on a “trust roadmap” including transparency, open books, and willingness to take accountability.

Notable Quotes:

"Trust will not be re-earned in huge, grandiose moments. It will be earned in a thousand tiny little ways over time."
— Co-host/Financial Expert [69:14]
"I’d like to check back in, and maybe you guys agree on a timeline… if all is good, then we’re going to open the floodgates and it’s going to be, y’know, we’re just gonna fly and build wealth together."
— George Kamel [73:07]

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8. Classic Ramsey Baby Step Questions and Listener Wins

Various Timestamps throughout

• Paying off debts with savings: Move to $1,000 in savings, then attack smallest debts first with all extra funds.
• Credit card use & advice: Fire any financial advisor who insists on using credit cards; stick with debit for peace and control.
• Student loans: Don’t borrow against retirement to pay off debt; stop investing to focus on debt.
• Mortgage vs. Investing: Pay extra toward mortgage after investing 15% in retirement; rate math vs. peace argument.
• Big wins: Several listeners celebrate being in Baby Step 7 (no debt, paid-off house)—advice is to now maximize retirement investing, enjoy life, give generously, and avoid lifestyle creep.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When you get bit by the snake once, then you go back for eight more bites. At some point you got to go, I guess I was… part [of the problem].” — George Kamel [05:45]
• “If the answer is ‘till death do us part, I said I’ll be here,’ then your energy spent complaining…is wasted energy. All of my energy is going toward finding some avenue, some shape, form, or fashion…” — Co-host/Financial Expert [15:13]
• “It’s not a ‘someday’ thing, it’s a ‘do it now’ thing.” — Ad read, but reflected repeatedly in host urgency throughout [08:36+]
• “The thing about anxiety, that’s the worst, is the only way through it is through it.” — Co-host/Financial Expert [61:44]
• “Trust is built in a thousand tiny little ways over time.” — Co-host/Financial Expert [69:14]
• “Congratulations, man. Never go back into debt. Keep investing as much as you can and also enjoy your life.” — George Kamel [101:17]

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High-Impact Timestamps for Reference

• $300k Secret Spousal Debt — [00:37–08:36]
• Marital Disconnect & Money — [10:20–19:46]
• Manic Spending & Recovery — [21:37–30:55]
• Retirement Setup on Tight Budget — [33:08–36:41]
• Foundation Repair / Emergency Pausing Baby Steps — [37:00–42:01]
• Job Loss, Student Debt, Action Plan — [54:14–61:27]
• Rebuilding Marital Trust When Reconciling — [65:57–74:36]
• Life Beyond Baby Step 7 — [96:14–101:17]
• Mortgages, Investment Questions — [102:14–105:29]

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Tone and Delivery

Hosts mix Ramsey’s signature directness (“stop blaming others”), tough love (“no, you’re not powerless”), and constant hope (“this is solvable,” “we believe in you, maybe more than you believe in yourself”). They never sugarcoat consequences, but always point to practical action and brighter possibilities ahead.

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Takeaways

• Hope is real, even for the overwhelmed. No matter how tangled the mess, progress is possible with ownership, budgeting, and the Baby Steps.
• Trust and financial recovery go hand-in-hand. Whether with a spouse, parent, or yourself, honesty and accountability are non-negotiable.
• Mental health and money are intertwined. Address both in the plan.
• Baby Steps simplicity beats complexity. Avoid distractions, ignore “fancy” tricks, and stick to the fundamentals—budget, save, attack debt, then build wealth.
• Intentional action always beats fear. Even small, daily steps—especially in emergencies—are what move you forward.

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Resources Mentioned:

• EveryDollar app (budgeting)
• SmartVestor Pro (investing guidance)
• Dave Ramsey’s books: Total Money Makeover, Breaking Free from Broke

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For more on the Baby Steps, real-time advice, or tools mentioned, visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Camel]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by best selling author Dr. John DeLoney and we're taking your calls at 888-258-5225. Jeff is going to kick us off in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Jeff?

[Caller]

How yo.

[George Camel]

What can we help you with today? What's happening?

[Caller]

Well, my wife, over the last eight to 10 years has taken on a series of. I guess the term is predatory loans. Now totaling right around $300,000. All without my knowledge, of course. Goodness gracious, yes.

[George Camel]

What kind of. When you say predatory loans, what. What type of loans are these exactly? You broke up on us, Jeff.

[Caller]

I'm sorry. It's. It's the ones where they send you a check in the mail and they say, cash this and you fill out some paperwork online and they deposit the money straight into your account.

[George Camel]

Okay, so I'm trying to figure out the actual. Was this one company that she just kept falling for this over and over?

[Caller]

No, it was multiple.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[George Camel]

And so they basically say, cash this check, AKA it's a loan as soon as you cash it.

[Caller]

Correct. It says you're pre qualified for X number of loans.

[George Camel]

What did she use the money for?

[Caller]

She blew it. There's. There's no.

[George Camel]

You're telling me for a decade you had no inkling that this was happening?

[Caller]

That is correct.

[George Camel]

That's the most shocking part of all of this.

[Caller]

It is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[George Camel]

What did she say she spent it on? When she say she blew it? Was there an addiction involved here?

[Caller]

No, no. Just. Just blew it. Amazon? Who knows?

[George Camel]

And you never thought, hey, where is she getting all this stuff? Because I know what's coming out of our account. I'm guessing there is no our account. Is it your money and her money?

[Caller]

Well, it is, yes.

[George Camel]

And it's always been that way.

[Caller]

No, it wasn't when we were first married. We separated for a few months back in the 2010 time frame and of course obviously separated our finances. And then when we reconciled, we never. We just never really got around to it. And everything was fine until she retired. She retired this past January. And everything was fine until she retired, obviously took a pay cut and didn't have the money.

[George Camel]

Feels like a bad time to retire when you're $300,000 in debt.

[Caller]

That is correct.

[George Camel]

Do you guys have other debts?

[Caller]

No. Well, our house.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

About 125.

[George Camel]

And that's just you?

[Caller]

No, no, that's. That's her retirement and me.

[George Camel]

Okay. And you're willing to go, hey, this is. This is us. She made the mess, but it's our mess to clean up.

[Caller]

I don't know that I have a choice at this point.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

I mean, you've always got a choice.

[Caller]

Yeah, but that's not a choice I'm willing to make.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

That's what I was hoping. I was hoping for some ownership there. Not some victim, but some owner. And I love that.

[Caller]

No, no, I love you. Yeah, I'm definitely think. Think part of the, you know, responsibility. But, no, I can't. I would never leave her over something like that.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

So is she committed to not doing this, Playing this game anymore?

[Caller]

She is. And we're in the process of recombining finances that way. I can. If something like that were to happen again, I would know about it.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

I. I'm gonna pass this to George to let him walk you through the. Just the process. But if I were you, I don't know the help I get from leading with these were predatory loans. They were. They are. But I think it helps. It kind of takes the edge off. My wife did a thing repeatedly and hid it from me for a decade. We need to deal with that part of this. And then together, we're going to heal both the trust in our marriage and be. Like you said, we're going to do some things very tangibly. We're going to combine income. We're going to be very diligent on a budget to tackle this debt together. She retired. She's going to have to go back and get a job because y' all are 300 plus in the hole now, plus all the interest that's wrecked up on this madness. Like, we're going to tackle this problem together. But I. I would. I would. Yes, there's bad people out in the world. Yes, they took advantage. But also, this is something. This is a daily practice that happened over a daily deception that happened over a decade. Blaming it in any shape, form or fashion on the lenders right now is just a distraction from the problem that y' all two have together. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yeah, I agree 100%. I just. I just didn't know a better term.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

No, I mean, you're right. It's. I. I hate it. I wish it was outlawed.

[George Camel]

It's predatory practice. Yeah, but when you get bit by the snake once, then you go back for eight more bites. @ some point you got to go, I guess I was, I was a.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Part. And then you hide the bites from the person that you're supposed to be doing life like side by side with. Right. So that, that to me is the bigger issue than these deceptive.

[George Camel]

People. How much does she have in.

[Caller]

Retirement? Well, she dropped Social Security and she's got a pension that I don't know exactly what's in her pension. Between the two, she brings in roughly 70. Between 70 and 75,000 a.

[George Camel]

Year. Okay, and how much of that do you guys actually need to cover your bills? Do you guys have any margin right.

[Caller]

Now? Oh, yeah, yeah. Our. We've got a house payment. That's.

[George Camel]

It. I mean, what's the house payment? How.

[Caller]

Much?

[George Camel]

27. And then what's your total take home pay for the month between the two of.

[Caller]

You? About it's roughly.

[George Camel]

$4,500. Okay. That doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room after insurance, taxes, utilities.

[Caller]

Food. It does.

[George Camel]

Not. But here's the napkin math. If you can put 50 grand a year towards these loans, they're done in six.

[Caller]

Years.

[George Camel]

Correct. And so I don't know that you could scrape together that's we're talking over four grand a month needs to be going towards these loans. Otherwise the interest alone is going to keep ballooning the balance to where you'll never make progress. So you've got to get angry at these.

[Caller]

Things. Right. But what I've actually done is I've contacted each lender individually and negotiated with them and hopefully I'm going to be down in the 150 to 170 neighborhood, is what I've been able to negotiate so.

[George Camel]

Far. Are they requiring lump sums for.

[Caller]

Each of those and that's the hitch, is it? I would have to pay a lump.

[George Camel]

Sum. Do you have any.

[Caller]

Money? I don't have that kind of money. Well, I do. I mean, I do have that in my retirement.

[George Camel]

Fund. And how old are.

[Caller]

You? Mutual fund? I'm.

[George Camel]

57. Okay, so we're not going to touch those. This might be paying three years when I have access to retirement. If you have the funds, then we write the.

[Caller]

Checks. I was considering taking a second mortgage on my.

[George Camel]

House, Jeff. Then you're just adding to the mess. Now you're really putting your house on the block. Going further into debt is not the solution to get out of debt. So I would not do that. I would go for that settlement that you've been Already going after. And then do everything you can. She's going to have to work for the foreseeable future. You're going to have to work for the foreseeable future to clean this mess up. Wish you the.

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[George Camel]

Ramsey. Andy is in New York City. Up next. Andy, welcome to the Ramsey.

[Caller]

Show. Hey.

[George Camel]

Guys. Hey. How can we.

[Caller]

Help? Hi. I've been trying to talk to my wife about some stuff about trying to help out around the house, getting a job. But it seems like every time I bring something up and how I need her to contribute to the family, she tells me that I'm starting when I'm honestly not. She tells me what I should be doing and then she just turns around and just runs away from everything. We've been married for about four years, almost five. She came from abusive childhood. I bring home 35 a year. But after child support it's about 27. I have $420 car payment. It's just been me and I'm really struggling. I didn't know if you guys could help.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Out. Yeah, it sounds like you're asking two different questions. One is a question about your money. Like I'm what you bring home. The payments you have built into your life. That's. That's a scary way to live. And you live in a very exp. Part of the country. Right. Like that's a lot. And doing this alone and it sounds like you're telling your wife, hey, here's what I want. Here's what we need. And she's like, yeah, I don't care. That's got to be super frustrating and lonely and maddening and all those things all in one. Right? But it sounds like you got two different challenges here. Where would you like us to.

[Caller]

Focus? On.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Us.

[George Camel]

Yeah. So when you say she doesn't help out around the house, she's not working. How does she spend her day?

[Caller]

Currently sitting, playing.

[George Camel]

Games. How old is.

[Caller]

She? She's.

[George Camel]

32. Do you guys have any children together? No. Okay, so it's not like she's staying at home with the kids. She's. You saying she's literally just playing video games all day? You go to work, you come home, you're doing all the house chores, the cooking, the.

[Caller]

Cleaning? Yeah, she cooks for the most part, but I have to do all the cleaning and everything else pretty.

[George Camel]

Much. And you feel like she's not pulling her weight in this marriage? Has it ever been different, or has this been the case since day.

[Caller]

One? No, it was different back when we first.

[George Camel]

Started. What.

[Caller]

Shifted? Gone.

[George Camel]

Downhill? Did something happen in her life? Is she. I mean, I'm guessing there's some anxiety, depression behind all of.

[Caller]

This. Yeah, I have.

[George Camel]

No. Have you dug into that? Have you approached it from a place of empathy, of, hey, what's going on? I feel like you've been real down lately and just kind of vegging out, playing games, and there's this disconnection. And you know what? Tell me about that versus I need you to help out around the house and go get a job. You know, it sounds like you're her parent instead of a.

[Caller]

Spouse. No, I. I've. I've tried it, and it. It's just. Oh, you're starting. You're starting. You're starting when I'm just trying to have an honest, general conversation.

[George Camel]

About. She sought out help.

[Caller]

Professionally. Yeah. She sees a counselor once a.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Week. Would she be willing to invite you, or would she be willing to have you come with.

[Caller]

Her? That could be an.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Option. And here's the way I would approach that. This is you submitting. This is you taking a knee. And there's going to be people in the Internet sphere that think this is bad and this is weak or it's not. It's loving. It's connecting to someone who's clearly hurting and is not experiencing the world in a real way. Right. Because you have a big math problem. You have a marriage problem. You have a life, joy and passion problem. You've got all the problems. Right. So she's clearly not experiencing the world as it is. But she is experiencing the world as she feels it to be. Right. If you approached her and said, I don't feel like I'm doing a good job connecting with you and loving you in a way that you can feel it, I'd love to come to one of your counseling sessions so your counselor could give me some insights on how I could be a better support system for you. And that might be an invitation that she would extend to you. You could come to her session and from there, maybe get some context on what she's telling this counselor, what the counselor's telling her, what kind of world you're inhabiting. Because here's. Here's the deal. You need to come up with, on your own, an or what statement. And what I mean by that is, are you going to leave? Because if the answer is no, if the answer is till death do us part, I said I'll be here. Then your energy is spent complaining. Your energy spent yelling. Your energy spent fighting is wasted energy. I'm not going to leave. So all of my energy is going to be towards finding some avenue, some shape, form, or fashion, some way that I can connect or deal with the reality that I've got a partner who's just going to scroll her life away and we have a math problem, and I'm going to have to go get a different job or two jobs or three jobs, or if your or what statement is, if this doesn't change, I'm going to choose to go elsewhere. You need to be open and bold and put that on the table. But you just. Continually fighting without an anchor point is. It's just. It's not getting y' all anywhere. Right. In fact, it's making everything.

[Caller]

Worse.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Yep. And now you're in a place where you can't even say, hi, I love you. Because then she goes, well, you're starting up again, and then it's over. Yeah. If she was to call into the show, what would she tell us about you? How she experiences.

[Caller]

You? How much I care about her and how much I try and do everything for her. She. She'll say that, too, but, like, she'll just have her moments where she. Where I just try and have a general, honest.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Conversation. Yeah. It sounds like she's struggling with something bigger than just connectivity issues. And so, yeah, if there's a possibility that she would allow you to join her in a counseling session or two or three, I think that would be really beneficial for.

[Caller]

Everybody.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay. Let's talk about your money for a second.

[George Camel]

George. Yeah. How much debt do you currently have. What's the total balance of your.

[Caller]

Consumer debt by consumer debt? Back in 2021, we filed for bankruptcy because I had.

[George Camel]

To. Why'd you have.

[Caller]

To? I was knee deep in the swamp. I couldn't keep up with any payments. I had a broken scaphoid at the time. Everybody was gonna take me to.

[George Camel]

Court. So did they wipe it clean or did you get put on a payment.

[Caller]

Plan? Nope, they wiped it.

[George Camel]

Clean. And where are you.

[Caller]

Today? Now? Today I had a car that broke.

[George Camel]

Down. So you had to get a.

[Caller]

Payment. So I went and got a car payment. Yep. Even though I told my wife that I didn't want.

[George Camel]

To. So she forced you? None of this has happened on your own volition is what I'm hearing. Everybody forced you into every decision you made that put you in this terrible.

[Caller]

Place? No, no, I. I went out. Nope. I went out and I got the car payment even though I didn't want to. That's what I was telling my wife. So we went out and got the car payment. And then she also goes to school for.

[George Camel]

Nursing. You left that part out. I thought she was at home all day playing video.

[Caller]

Games. She is, for the most.

[George Camel]

Part.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay. Except when she's going to become a medical.

[Caller]

Professional. What was.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

That? Except when she's going to university to become a medical.

[Caller]

Professional. Even classes are at home some days, but.

[George Camel]

Yes. Okay, so what is the total balance.

[Caller]

Today? Today it's about.

[George Camel]

90,000. Goodness.

[Caller]

Gracious.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Yep. And you make 30 grand a.

[Caller]

Year? Yep. And I make 30 grand a.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Year. Why do you make 30 grand a.

[Caller]

Year? Because I can't find a better job that fits my schedule that I.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Need. What's the schedule that you need? What does that.

[Caller]

Mean? So I have a daughter who lives about an hour and a half away from me that I have to go see every Tuesdays that I pick up about 5 o'.

[George Camel]

Clock. I think we need to readjust the schedule to go, hey, this based on my work schedule. I can't make this happen. You're not going to be able to afford child support at this point. So you need to make some serious changes, Andy. I mean, all the way around. And yes, there's other people involved, but all I've heard so far is I had to, I have to, I had no choice. She made me. I think we just need to control what we can control. And that's the guy in the mirror. And then we can work on the stuff around it. Wish you the.

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[Co-host/Financial Expert]

More. That's.

[George Camel]

Chministries.Orgbudget. Alicia's in Chicago. Up next. Alicia, what's going.

[Dr. John Deloney]

On? Hi. So I. So basically, long story short, I had a manic episode and put myself into a little bit of debt and I want to know where to start with the baby steps to get myself out of the situation I put myself.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Into. Very cool. So when you say a manic episode, are you diagnosed.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Bipolar? Yes, I.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Am. Okay, one or.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Two? I believe it is two. It's the genetic.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

One. Okay, different conversation, but. So have you had manic episodes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Before? Yes, I have, but they were not as extreme as this.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

One. Tell me about.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It. So basically I was having a lot of family trouble and then I had health problems too. So I also have endometriosis. I had a flare up and had to have emergency surgery and it was just a complication of everything all together that I think what made it a really bad episode for.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Me. So tell me about the petty loans you took out. How bad is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It? So the original total amount was like 2,300 and something. And with all that interest, it is approximately $5,800. With all that.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Interest. Gosh, I don't know. I don't know how those people sleep, to be honest with you. I just don't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But I'm not very happy about.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

It. I know, I know, I know. Okay, so question number one is, do you have.

[Caller]

Your. Are.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

You. I've seen. I've seen friends, I've seen colleagues. I've seen countless students of mine over the years who are diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And, And. And, you know, it's on a spectrum, various. Various levels of it. Who, When. Com. When they commit to med management, when they actually take their meds, and when. When they feel great and when they don't feel great, and when they put in some, what I would call, for lack of better term, some hurdles. When I feel myself beginning to start down a path where I'm going down to the basement, or when I'm starting on a path where I'm about to go to the mountaintop, I know I'm going to give my debit card to a trusted friend. I am going to turn my Internet off for seven days. Right. So they put some really big hurdles to protect themselves from themselves in those seasons. Do you have. Are you taking care of your medications? Are you seeing a professional? Are.

[Caller]

You.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Are. Are you managing this thing in a. In a healthy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Way? Yes. So we were in the process of figuring out what dose worked for me last year, like what medications, and that's when I had the episode. So it wasn't the correct medication. Now I'm actually on the correct one. So I don't know if it's okay for me to disclose the.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Type. Well, it doesn't matter for this conversation, but I just want to tell you I'm proud of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You. Thank.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

You. And I want you to commit to me and George and everyone listening. You're going to stay on the plan.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay?

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay. And that's awesome. Now, when it comes to getting this paid off, George will walk you through it. It's a. It's a. It's a math problem, but we fully believe you can get there, Zach. And you don't believe in yourself. We probably believe in you more than you do right now. But hear us say we believe in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay? Okay. Same.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Team. Same.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Team. Awesome. Awesome. I'm really glad that you.

[George Camel]

Called. So give me some more details about your financial picture. Are you working full time right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now? No. So I'm actually going back to school for human resource management and business management because I want to get their career. Right now I'm really just working as a waitress, so my income isn't like. What's the proper term I'm looking for. It's not like a set in stone thing. It's always floppy and.

[George Camel]

It'S. Are you working part time as a waitress and then part time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

School?

[George Camel]

Yeah. Okay. What other debts do you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have? Right now I have a student loan debt that is only 3,000, but that's on deferment right now because I'm in.

[Caller]

School.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And then there's one dental debt that I'm still paying back because I had to get my teeth fixed. And then the last one was a previous collection from a credit card when I was, like, really young that I decided to open it. Anyhow, it's getting taken.

[George Camel]

Care. Have you ever been debt free in your adult.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Life? I guess technically not, because, like, I opened my first credit card at 18. It was a student credit.

[George Camel]

Card. Didn't we all? So I want. I want you to just picture Alicia for the first time in her adult life, completely debt free with savings in the bank to cover any emergency that would come up. How good would that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Feel? No, it would feel really.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Great. It's a thing you don't have right now, which is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Peace. Yeah.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Right. And trust in when I'm having a good day, I'm having a bad day, I'm having a really, really wild week or really low week. I'm okay. It's a magic feeling for somebody in your situation. It's a magic feeling for all of us, but especially for somebody whose inner world can be as volatile as yours.

[George Camel]

Is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right?

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Yeah. Yeah. It's.

[George Camel]

Beautiful. Do you have any money in your checking account or savings account right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now? In my savings, I only have like 10 bucks right now. Unfortunately, I do have 200 in cash savings, but that I was saving for, like, emergencies for my pet if something happens with.

[George Camel]

Her. Okay, well, let me walk into the baby steps, because this is the framework that will help you actually have a very tactical plan instead of just trying to do a few good things at once. And so baby step one is get $1,000 saved. So you have 200 now. That's awesome. We're on the path to getting a thousand. So right now, can you make minimum payments on your debts while working part time, or do we need to up the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Income? It's most. If I do minimum payments and everything, it is doable with the income right.

[George Camel]

Now. Okay. Now, minimum payments on that payday loan, that balance grew since we've been on the phone. Yeah, that's the scary part. And so I want you to get angry at this thing. And that might mean we need to take a semester off and go really hard and work 50 hours a week to at least knock out the payday loan. Okay, what's the trajectory for this program that you're in? How much longer and how much.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Money? So, luckily, financial aid covers everything, and I've been doing scholarships, so I haven't had to pay for a penny for school.

[George Camel]

Luckily. And how much Longer, do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You? I believe it is two.

[George Camel]

Years. So here's the bad. As long as I don't have two more years working part time as a waitress and make any financial progress. Would you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Agree? Probably.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And so we need to figure out a different path. Maybe it's a pause. Maybe you do less school right now, less credits, and it takes you longer. But you could go work full time and clean this up, get some money in savings and then go back to school with a whole lot more peace. Because right now it's probably hard to focus on your schoolwork when you see that interest accruing on that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Loan. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Definitely. So once you get a thousand bucks saved, which I hope happen, what do you make in a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Week? So just to average it out, probably like 300. There are some weeks where I can get up to like 500, 700, but, you know, it's not always.

[George Camel]

Guaranteed. So you're living off of like $1200 a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Month?

[George Camel]

Yes. Are you able to do that without going further into debt right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now? Yes. So luckily that's because of my low income. You know, I have food stamps and I'm able to get food and everything. My living situation is basically just pay what you can. So I have no rent. So so far it's actually been really doable. And I have like a really cheap phone plan where it's only like 25 bucks a.

[Caller]

Month.

[George Camel]

Wow. Well, I don't want you to stay there. This is not like a. Well, I can make it all work. You're in survival mode. This is literal poverty. And that, that's the exact target demo these payday lenders go after because they're the most vulnerable, the most desperate. And so this is going to take a lot of work, literal work. And that might mean we get two waitress jobs and, you know, we ratchet down on school, ramp up on income just for even a season so that we can get her head above the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Water.

[George Camel]

Okay. Because once you have that thousand dollars saved, now we can start tackling these debts and just list them out from smallest to largest. So today this is going to really help you get it out of your brain. Put them all the debts on paper and put the balances and list them in order from the smallest balance to the largest balance. So your next goal after getting $1,000 is throw as much as you can on that smallest.

[Caller]

Debt.

[George Camel]

Okay. That might be the dental debt, I don't know. And maybe I'm guessing your credit is shot at this point. No one's going to go give you a Personal loan.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Correct? Yeah, no, I know my score is like 625, but I don't think anybody's going to give me a loan or.

[George Camel]

Anything. Yeah, I was trying to get you out of this payday loan cycle because if this is going to be another year before you can attack this payday loan, the balance is going to be ten grand. Yeah, we have to stop the bleeding. And if that means the dream of the HR job is on pause, I'm okay with that because I don't want you to look up. And now it feels hopeless because this loan just keeps doubling and doubling because it's 3 or 400% APR. I'm so sorry you're going through this, Alicia. Hang on the line. We're going to hook you up with our budgeting app, Every dollar to help you make a plan for every one of those dollars coming in. And hopefully you'll see some light at the end of this tunnel.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Weird. Fairwinds is federally insured by the.

[George Camel]

Ncua. Buying or selling your home is a huge deal. And you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price. And the Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust who will help make your home a blessing instead of a burden. It's super easy. You can compare agent profiles, interview them and choose the right one to work with. And you can do that@ramsey solutions.com agent or click the link in the description. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast, Karen is in Denver. Up next, Karen, welcome to the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Show. Thank.

[George Camel]

You. How can John and I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Help? So this year my husband and I would like to start saving for retirement. But in our budget we only have about 500amonth to put towards that. So my question is, is it better for us to open one Roth IRA and put the full 500 in each month or for each of us to get one and split it in half? Or if there's, if that makes a difference at.

[George Camel]

All? Well, as far as growth goes, it'll be the exact.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Same.

[George Camel]

Okay. Now are you guys in a financial place to invest? Do you have any debt right now outside of your.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Mortgage? No, we don't have debt. We have a emergency fund. And the reason our budget is lower for retirement is we're trying to save for a house this year. So we're pretty much putting everything we can towards saving for down payment and closing costs and all.

[George Camel]

That. Got it. So you're in what we would call Baby Step 3B where you can sort of split the difference. Here you can choose your own adventure and invest anywhere from 0 to 15% while saving up for that down payment. So how long is the down payment going to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Take? We're hoping we can do it in the next 12.

[George Camel]

Months. Awesome. And so after that 12 months is over, you guys get into a home. Would you then ramp that up to 15% of your household income? And could.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You? We live in a pretty expensive place, so I don't know if we could do the full 15%, but I think we would like to increase it over time as we.

[George Camel]

Can. Okay, how expensive are we talking? Because when you say we're going to save up a down payment, we're going to buy a home, how much is this mortgage going to be in comparison to your take home pay?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So for the area we live in, pretty much the cheapest houses we can get is between 400 and 450. So that's our.

[George Camel]

Goal.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And my husband, he, a lot of his work is commission, but the goal would be to make about 150 this year before.

[George Camel]

Taxes. Okay. Are you working outside the home as.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well? I'm, I'm just bringing in between like 500 and.

[George Camel]

1500Amonth. Okay. So let's add another 10 or 12 to that.

[Caller]

150.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Okay. So here's the good news is you guys have a great income and I hope you're able to get that house within 12 months. My fear is that if you, if it's too tight to invest 15%, it's always going to feel too tight. And that's Going to leave you guys with, you know, probably needing to work later in life in order to catch up on retirement. So that's something I would consider. You can plug some numbers into an investment calculator to get a better picture of what that's going to look like. But, you know, you guys are young, you got time. Just make it a goal to get to that 15% mark. And that might mean we need to cut other expenses. That might mean we can't afford to live in the area we wanted to. It might mean you need to be working part time or full time in order to make the numbers work. And so whatever you guys do, make peace with that decision and hopefully you'll get to that baby step four mark in no time. Silas is in Des Moines up next. What's going on.

[Caller]

Silas? Hey, I appreciate you guys taking my call. It was actually your book, George, that got me to take financial situations a lot more seriously. So I appreciate.

[George Camel]

That. Awesome. Love to hear it, man. So what's serious now? What'd you get serious.

[Caller]

About? Well, we've been trying to. Me and my wife have been trying to be better about budgeting. Haven't had the best time with that. But recently we found out that we have some settling going on underneath our house and our foundation is dropping a little bit and we've only got a couple quotes on it so far. The first one was 12,000. Second one was like 24,000. And we don't have that kind of money. And so just not sure what the best ways to hand. Best way is to handle this knowing that it could get worse, but not knowing how fast it could get worse.

[George Camel]

And. Yeah. How much money do you have.

[Caller]

Saved? Thousand.

[George Camel]

Dollars. Okay. And you still have some debt to pay.

[Caller]

Off? Yeah, we've got just a little over $9,000 of.

[George Camel]

Debt. Okay. And what's your household.

[Caller]

Income? 60,000, give or.

[George Camel]

Take. Is that both of you.

[Caller]

Working? No, just.

[George Camel]

Me. Just you. Okay. Is she home with the.

[Caller]

Kids? Yeah, she's home with our.

[George Camel]

Son. Okay. So I imagine money's already tight as it stands, let alone thinking about, you know, because if, if, if you need to, you know, solve this problem within six months, let's say, well, you need to save two grand for six months straight to get 12 grand to make the repair. You tracking with me?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And that feels like it's going to be a lot from your take home pay. So this might be a season where we say, hey, we're going to pause the, the baby steps. If this is a really urgent matter and within six months we need to scrape together 12.

[Caller]

Grand. Okay. Yeah. We've been spending. Today was the first day. We've been trying to find extra work. I'm trying to find extra work. She, she applied at a place and. And so we're trying to find, find that. I just don't know would. I don't. Because the other issue I have is I don't. I'm not 100% certain if we can afford the house even without the.

[George Camel]

Issues. Oh, wow, like mortgage itself. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah. Because our mortgage payment with escrow is like 1400 and I bring home about three grand a.

[George Camel]

Month. You bring home.

[Caller]

Three. Yeah, I'm already concerned about that, but I don't know if she's as concerned about.

[George Camel]

That. How do you make 60 but you take home 36.

[Caller]

Grand. 60 is some. With bonuses. I get a couple bonuses a.

[George Camel]

Year.

[Caller]

Okay. And then in the past I've had a lot more overtime work. Not as much this last.

[George Camel]

Year. I think we're going to need some in the present and the future until we get to a better spot financially. And so I would have her working if she's able to. I think you're going to need to ratchet up the overtime and maybe a part time job on top of that because right now I don't think the mortgage is the big problem here. I think long term you get your income a little higher. We can make this work. If you're making, you know, five or six grand a month. Now, these numbers aren't that scary. It's not like you have a $4,000 mortgage payment that's a reasonable, you know, you're going to pay 1400 bucks in rent somewhere. And so this is. I would. Do you have a professional that's looked at it who said, hey, this, you need to deal with this within this time.

[Caller]

Frame. That's what we're working on mostly. The two companies we've had come out, they come are just like it. You know, they don't know how fast it's necessarily progressing or how bad it actually is. We thought about, we've been thinking about trying to find a maybe just a local inspector or something like that that can come in, maybe try to.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Get 100% do that because a foundation repair company has a job and that is to. They put all those little sensors out and they say it's not perfectly level and we can fix it for this much money. But get an inspector out, it's worth the four or five hundred bucks you're going to pay to bring him out and say, is this the thing I have to do right now, or is this the thing I need to do in five years? And let him tell you, that would be money well spent just for your peace of.

[George Camel]

Mind. And then maybe you track it and go, hey, here's how it's progressing based on what he said. And if it gets to this point, we got, we got to make this happen. But I would act like you need to make this happen next month in the fire that's under you guys to get to work and get this money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Saved.

[George Camel]

Okay? And so if that means pausing the baby steps right now because you're in storm mode, because it is an emergency, great. Maybe the inspector says, hey, I wouldn't worry about this right now. I check back in a year. Well, that gives you some breathing room to go. Okay, we can knock out our debt and get this foundation repair money saved up. So we need a few more facts here to give us some peace about the next steps, but I think you're well on your way. The income is really the, the glaring issue here. And the good news is that's fully in your control. It's not going to be fun, but for six months or a year, you can do just about anything and suffer through it and live to tell the tale. So I wish you guys the best on the journey to debt, freedom and a smooth, stable foundation. Literally. And figure out of.

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[Dr. John Deloney]

Ramsey.

[George Camel]

Foreign. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at Triple 882-55225. You call us up, we'll help you take the right next step for your money, your relationships and your life. Ryan is in Flint, Michigan, up next. Ryan, what's your question.

[Caller]

Today? How you doing, gentlemen? God bless. I have a few questions, but the main one I'm trying to get through is that I we've been listening and the wife listening to Dave Ramsey's total money makeover. I listened to one of his seminars about baby steps and we were trying to dial in a few things. Now, I don't know if you want me to go into how much we make and how much debt or not to help with these.

[George Camel]

Questions. Well, you tell me the question and then we'll dig in with some follow.

[Caller]

Ups. All right, thank you, sir. First one is that I know you guys said something about a savings should be around 1,000. We have about 9,000 in our savings and we have a car, the one car that we have. That's debt that we want to pay off and that's roughly around 10 to.

[George Camel]

11,000.

[Caller]

Okay. And we're just kind of not used to not having some kind of, I guess, oh, crap money to fall back.

[George Camel]

Into. Is that your only.

[Caller]

Debt? No, we have the car. And as I've been listening to the books and what you guys say, I've been lied to. So you must excuse me about this, but we have the car. We have two lease trucks. Our biggest is our house, our mortgage. And then from what I understand, we have two loans that we took out on our 401, our Roth. We pay ourselves back on those.

[George Camel]

Ones. Well, yeah, but you unplugged all the growth and paying interest.

[Caller]

So. Yes.

[George Camel]

Sir. I'm less concerned about your oh, crap emergency fund and more, more of your oh, crap debt that you guys have racked up. How much do you guys.

[Caller]

Make? Between me and my wife total, probably around.

[George Camel]

200. Wow, that's a great.

[Caller]

Income. Yeah, we're just not great. So, I mean, we ran into some issues. We moved in and we outlived. Let's just say we outlived what we had and what we had coming in until we got to the point where we were just about underwater. The wife had 34,000, I think, on her cards. I Took the loan out of my 4:1 to pay her card off. She took another loan out to pay the credit card off. So once credit card was paid off, I thought, well man, we should be getting an extra thousand to fifteen hundred dollars a month. And it just didn't start equating to.

[George Camel]

That. It just disappeared into more spending.

[Caller]

Lifestyle. You got it.

[George Camel]

100%. That's the American dream right there. You summed it up. Okay, so you've been robbing Peter to pay Paul, playing whack a mole, taking out one debt to pay off the other debt. What is your question today specifically that we can help.

[Caller]

With? Okay, so once we pay off the car with the savings that we have now, do we just keep 1,000 in there? Or because of our expenses, say our mortgage and whatnot, should we keep a little bit more money than 1000 in.

[George Camel]

There? The thousand dollars does not change based on expenses or income. It's a flat thousand dollars and it's not meant to cover everything. And so if something did occur where you needed more than $1,000 to cover an emergency, you would simply pause the baby steps. And that next check that comes in you would use toward the emergency. You'd sell stuff, you'd work extra, you'd cut your lifestyle down to nothing until you got through the emergency. Now we're back to the baby step two, paying off our consumer.

[Caller]

Debts. Excellent. And now the next one would be. So obviously from what you said, I should not, we should not be borrowing from our 401 because of the interest, we'd be missing out on the.

[George Camel]

Accumulated. Yeah, there's like 14 reasons why it's a bad idea, but we won't get into that today. Just if are you committing live in front of America that you are done borrowing money? That's the big question I have for you. No more leases, no more 0% cards, no more borrowing from retirement. Are you guys done with.

[Caller]

Debt? Yeah, we're done. That's kind of where 100% I'm more committed than I would say my wife's committed to. And I'm very committed on it because I'm tired of living the paycheck to paycheck life. That's just for what we make and what we do. We should be able to be fine and live way better, you know, at least have more money in the savings. So I'm 100% committed. It's just these few of these questions that I'm having. I'm trying to rationalize in my head to get my head around, wrap around How I. How you guys want us to do.

[George Camel]

This? Have you guys ever created a budget together where you actually sat down and said, all right, here's the paychecks coming in. Here's all of our expenses for the month. We're going to track our.

[Caller]

Transactions. Sir, we just had. We've been married, we've been together almost 20 years, and about maybe two, two and a half years ago, we just put our accounts.

[George Camel]

Together. Wow.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Congrats.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Welcome to the big.

[Caller]

Leagues. Yeah, I know, right? That's when we paid off the debt and that's when we started, you know. Okay. We need to accumulate. So primarily what we do right now is most of our stuff comes out of our savings account, slash checking account. And then we like for groceries and other things that we have to buy for the most part goes to the credit card and then we just pay the credit card.

[George Camel]

Off. Every event there's a new character has entered the scene here. The credit cards. Tell me about.

[Caller]

Those. Yes.

[George Camel]

Sir. How many do you have? And is there a.

[Caller]

Balance? It's just one. And there's usually there's only the balance for the week prior, which is gas. If we get groceries, and that's pretty much about it. So we put gas, groceries. There may be a few other bills I'm have to look to see that goes on. But we pay it off pretty much every week with every check. We don't occur a balance and let the balance hold on because we just paid off 34,000. So we're not trying to get a balance on this. We pretty much pay it off every week regardless.

[George Camel]

Wow. So we're just. You told me you're not going to borrow money, but you're okay temporarily borrowing someone else's money with the promise of paying it back within the week. It's like, hey, bro, I got you. I got you at the end of the week, essentially. Right. And so here's my challenge to you. And I put this in my book, Breaking Free from broke. It's a 30 day, no credit card challenge where you put the thing in a block of ice, you put it in a drawer you don't have access to, and just for 30 days, only use a debit card or even cash envelopes. And the goal is, let's see, if you didn't have more peace in your life, if you didn't create more margin to throw at the debt, if you didn't miss the credit card rewards you thought you were getting. And what I found is most people go, oh my gosh. Instead of the 2% cash back, I spent 10% less than I was.

[Caller]

Spending. Yeah, that sounds about right. And we only did this because of my financial. My 401k guy said to do this. And the main question was, what is a 401k.

[George Camel]

Guy? You have a financial advisor told you to open the credit.

[Caller]

Card. That's exactly what he said. He said we should have everything going on to the credit card that we pay and then just pay that.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Off. Is that the same dude that gave you the 401k.

[Caller]

Loan? No, that was from. I did that from Fidelity for my work because I get work and matching and I'm able to just go in there myself and take out. But that was. He told me that's what I should do in order to pay the credit card.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Off. I say this with all due respect. You got to fire that guy before the day is over and get a new.

[Caller]

Guy. I've been feeling like that. I just told my life today. Today, the other day, I told. I go something just not right with what. What this guy is doing. And I'm just not feeling right about.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

It. You've been following his advice for years and you're broker than.

[Caller]

Ever. Yeah, Yeah. I can't. I.

[George Camel]

Can'T. Are you guys still investing as well? My guess is you're still putting some money into.

[Caller]

Retirement. I am. At 8%, I think I get a 3 and a half to 4% match from work and my wife is roughly around the same. We got rolled over a previous 401 into this Roth with this.

[George Camel]

Guy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't know you could contribute to your retirement once you take a loan against it until it's paid.

[Caller]

Back. I can contribute. Yeah, the contribute. No, mine is. Is it takes a certain portion out on top of my percentage that I'm putting.

[George Camel]

In. Okay, well, here. Here's another thing I would encourage you to do is to stop all investing until this mess is cleaned up. Because right now you're doing 17 things at once and you're not seeing progress on any of.

[Caller]

It. I gotcha. With the debit cards, you're saying just go to debit card and just don't even worry about credit cards.

[George Camel]

On. Exactly. I've been living that Life for like 13 years. I'm gonna send you a copy of Breaking Free from broke. I cover the whole debit card, credit card thing in the credit card chapter. So read that and I'm gonna hook you up with every dollar. This is going to be like John and I in your pocket, coaching you 247 with new recommendations based on where you're at financially and educating you along the way. So hang on the line. We'll get you the book and every dollar. I'm rooting for you, Ryan. This is a solvable problem. You make $200,000. There's no reason to be this.

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[George Camel]

Visit. 10% off up to a $250 value. See store for detail. Jamie is in Chicago up next. Jamie, welcome to the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Show. Hey, George. Hi, John, how are.

[George Camel]

You? We're doing great. How can we help.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Today? So I've been following the plan for quite a while. I got rid of my car. I paid down all my debt. The only two things I have left are my student loan debt and my mortgage. My mortgage I owe 98,000 on and unfortunately on my student loans I owe today 142,000. Last Wednesday I learned that my position at my job is going to be eliminated and I will be without a job on February 1st or on 2nd and I am kind of freaked.

[George Camel]

Out. Yeah, I feel like you have a right to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Be. I don't have. I only have about 25 in 401k and obviously I'd want to get that student loan debt out of the way. But with my separation I'll get a severance package but it's only going to be about 16,000 and that's before taxes. So I am not.

[George Camel]

Sure. So that floats you. Three months. What do you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Think? Yes. Yes. Three.

[George Camel]

Months.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay. What do you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do? I am a facility.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Planner for a guy who's not very basically, I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Manage for a large healthcare company. I Manage the plans before plans and where people sit and okay, physical allocations, things like.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

That. You help with a logistics chance of getting a new job.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Quickly, I hope. Well, good. But it took me a couple of years to get that.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Job.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So, John, I'm glad you're on this call. You'll understand this. I was on disability for some years and was able to get back into the job market. And this was the position I landed. And it's been a really good position for me. I work from.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So I'm kind of nervous about, you know, kind of the things that go around with social anxiety and those kinds of things.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

So. So I'm gonna give you a.

[Caller]

Word.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Problem. I'm gonna give you a word it will be, but I'm gonna give you a word that most it might cause some people listening to inhale sharply.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay. But I'm telling you this word because I believe in you and I trust in you. Okay. You have an absolute emergency on your.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hand.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Yes. And agreed. And you have proven to yourself you have documented evidence over the last few years that you are not who you once.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Were.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Exactly. And these kind of big events, a job loss of somebody passing away, who we care about, our body wants to drag us right back into. This is how we always handle.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Things.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Right. And what, you have a bona fide emergency and you've got a tiny little Runway to land the plane.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Right. And so what we're not going to do is turtle up. We're not go. We're going to grieve the heck out of this thing. But I'm going to say this, it's going to sound crazy. We're going to grieve it later. What we're going to do is start applying for jobs like mad. And we're not looking for careers. We're not looking for exact replicas. We're not looking for perfect work from home situations. We're looking for two jobs that we're going to go to in the morning and in the evening and we're going to feel the social anxiousness. We're going to feel it and then we're going to go through it because we have an emergency on our hands. And on the other side of this, you're going to be so freaking strong that the landscape of jobs available to you will double or triple in scope. You get what I'm.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Saying? Yes, I.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Do. It's gonna be hard, it's gonna be scary, and your body's gonna want to go back to what it has done in the past, which is turtle up and just. And wave the white flag. And we're not doing that this time. You've come too.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Far. Exactly. And that's exactly why I'm calling. Because I felt like I was. My. My instinct was to go back to that old thinking and it's like, no, I've come so far. Why would I do.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

That? We're apply for coffee shop jobs, we're going to apply for maintenance job, we're going to apply for waitress jobs. Everything.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Everything.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay. Everything. Because what you need right now is A, a reason to get up in the morning and B, you need.

[George Camel]

Money. Think about this. If you could work so hard that you didn't need to touch the 16K and you throw that whole thing at the debt, once you get some stability, that's the goal. You're going to be on cloud.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Nine. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was.

[George Camel]

Thinking. And I just make that the.

[Caller]

Goal.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure. That I'm doing the right thing.

[George Camel]

Now. You're not a bad person if you touch the 16 grand. I'm not mad if you use the severance, but how cool would it be if you didn't? And it really propelled your baby steps. Instead of waiting three months, the money runs out and you go, well, I guess I need to find a job now that's not going to help.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Anything, so I'm not going to do.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

That. We're going to apply for fancy jobs. And you know the difference what I'm saying? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but we're going to go get waitress jobs, Home Depot jobs, whatever, and we're going to apply for the facility management jobs. These bigger picture things are going to take longer. They have longer processes. We're going to apply for those in the evenings and at.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Night. Okay, sounds.

[George Camel]

Good. We're going to send you Ken Coleman's Find the work you're wired to do. It has the get clear career assessment in there. And what it's really going to help you do is figure out, hey, what are the skills behind the work I've been doing that I really love and enjoy and I'm good at? And what other roles can I apply that to? Because right now you're thinking, I need. I'm going to type in these keywords. And I think there's so many underlying skills. You can take a logistical nightmare and clean it up and organize.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It.

[George Camel]

Sure. That's an amazing skill to have that you can apply into anything. Project management, that would be a great field for you. What is your Degree.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In. I have a degree in interior design and a degree in.

[George Camel]

Psychology. I love it. Have you pursued interior design at all as a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Career? I did, and that's kind of why it took me so long to find this job, because I felt like I wanted a very specific commercial job and it just wasn't happening. So then I was. I found this job recruiter. Each.

[George Camel]

Other. Well, on top of your, you know, your job shopping, I'd contact 10 interior design companies in your area and say, hey, I have a degree in interior design. I'm ready to start.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tomorrow. Okay, I will do.

[George Camel]

That. I mean, you got the degree in it. You spent a pretty penny to get it. Might as well give it your best shot. This might be the on ramp you needed to go. I needed to get laid off in order to go pursue the thing that I really wanted to.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Do. But here's your key.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Word.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay. We're gonna go, go. We're gonna.

[George Camel]

Act. There will be no hours left unspent twiddling our.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Thumbs. You're gonna. You're gonna close your computer screen and go for a quick walk around your neighborhood, and you're gonna put your head on your pillow exhausted because you've been working so hard. The energy has to go somewhere. Right. It can paralyze you. Or you can do it to solve this present emergency.

[George Camel]

Exciting. She's. She's paralyzed in excitement right now. That's so great, Jamie. Thank you for the call. John, let's talk about this, because a lot of people we talked about this on the show, that it's. It's like losing a loved one. Like the grief of losing a.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Job.

[George Camel]

Yes. And the shame, the guilt, the fear. It's like all the.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Emotions. And in her situation, having a diagnosed anxiety condition. The thing about anxiety, that's the worst, is the only way through it is through it. And so you're gonna have all of this. These feelings. You're gonna have all these emotions. She has an emergency, and millions of Americans have an emergency. And what many people do when there's an emergency is either they run around bananas or just creating more mess, or they just take their foot off the gas, put the car in park and exhale. And she doesn't have that luxury. She owes a couple hundred thousand dollars in various things, Right? So we're going to have some direction. We're going to go get a job, get some money, get some connections. We're going to apply for some jobs. We're going to read a book. We're going to have coffee with somebody. Who's in a job adjacent. We're going to go do a bunch of stuff and the weight of this. Dude, I got fired. They took my job.

[George Camel]

Away. That took my.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Life. We'll be there, but we're going to. We don't have the luxury of just stopping for a season. We got to go get a job and we're going to go, go, go.

[George Camel]

Go. I love that. An object at rest stays at rest. Once you stop, it is so hard to get moving.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Again.

[George Camel]

Yes. You get comfy, you get your favorite blankie, you're watching your favorite Netflix show, and you go, wow, that's a problem for tomorrow.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Me. Yeah, it's hard, George. If I'm. If it's like 9 o', clock, I go to bed early because I'm a nerd and I sit on the couch and just say I'm going to watch one show. It is so hard to get up from the couch and just go to my room to bed. Yeah, right. I should have just stayed up and gone to bed and got the extra 30 minutes or 45 minutes of sleep. Similar here, man. If you exhale and be like, well, I've got this 16 grand, that 16 grand will be gone before you can sneeze. And now you're gonna be in a real mess. So you got a job. You're taking your job away in a month. Tiny little severance. It's time to hit the gas and.

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[George Camel]

800-356-4282. One of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning with money. And we just heard this from Claren Winston. This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the EveryDollar app. And I'm amazed how much money we've found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3,500 of extra margin each month to put toward our debt. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off, never going back. We love to hear stories like that. And the truth is, you can do this, too. That's not just a Claire and Winston thing. That's in any one thing. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree and live like no one else. And it starts by downloading the EveryDollar budgeting app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Go see how much extra margin you can find. With a little bit of that coaching and encouragement. Lee is in San Antonio. Up next. What's going on, Lee? Hi. Hey. How can we.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Help? Well, so my question, I'm a little unique. So I went through a divorce in 2024, and by the grace of God, as of the holiday season of this year, we are reconciling and God's restoring our.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Marriage.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow. Yeah, it's really beautiful. My question, however, has to do with. So when we were married before, I was not great in the financial department. My husband was with the same company for almost 20 years. Hard worker, always provided. I kind of jumped from job to job. Wasn't the best with the money. Racked up a $10,000 credit card, all of that. So over the past year, while we were apart, I graduated from FPU and have followed Dave Ramsey. And I'm working with a company right now to pay off my credit card. So I'm hopeful that within the next couple months, that will be paid off, so I will myself be debt free. My question really is I know that Dave is pretty vocal about his opinion that when a couple is married that there is no my money, it's our money. So understandably, given my past behavior, my husband is a little hesitant to go back to commingling our funds. So I'm just kind of looking for some guidance on how he and I can navigate that this time. Just, you know, as we. That trust is built back up and maybe just some guidance on how to navigate this this.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Season. What other trust was broke in your previous time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Together? Well, there was no infidelity or anything like that. I honestly, the story, my story is that I really just was in a really bad place. I believed a lot of l about myself and my marriage, and the enemy convinced me that it was right to leave. And so I just did. I just picked up one day and I left. I didn't. There was. There was no seeking God in any of that. So really, the trust that was broken was just me giving up on.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Us. Okay. So I want you to hear his hesitancy as not about money. It's deeper than that. If. If it was a surprise to him. Not that y' all were in a tough season, not that, you know, you were struggling or anything like that, but if it shocked him when you walked in and said, I'm out, I want you to see that for what it was, which is you pulled a pin on a grenade and rolled it into his life and exploded.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Yeah. Right. Now, every couple co creates their relationship. That is what it is. Right. So I'm sure he's would sit here and tell me he's not perfect. I get all that. But if you're going to truly say we're reconciling, you can't. There is no reconciliation. There is no. I mean, you can get remarried, you can do whatever you want, but there's not a true remarriage if both of you don't have your feet in the boat. And at the same time, he's still living. He still has fresh scars from when this person he's getting back into the boat with shot a hole in the middle of the boat and then swam to another shore. You get what I'm.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Saying? Of.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Course. And so here's the path back. The path back is, will you give me being him to you, a very clear roadmap that I can follow to reestablish trust? Because trust will not be re earned in huge, grandiose moments. It will be earned in a thousand tiny little ways over time. And the commitment here is, we're going to do this every 30 days, every 60 days. And it's not you groveling. It's not like, how am I doing? Do I get an A on trust this month? It's not that. It is. I want a clear path back. If we're going to really get remarried, we're going to go all in on this thing again. Both of us have to put our feet in the boat, and you'd be crazy to do that all the way. I get that. So I'm going to ride in your boat for a while. Like, I'm going to ride shotgun with you. What does a path to reestablish trust look like. And he's going to lay that path out and then you get to decide whether I'm going to follow that or.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Right. And, and here's the other thing. If he says I'm in, he's got to be all in too. Which means he has to risk that the person he's marrying does this to him. Again, that's the risk of any great marriage and any great relationship at all. Right. Is that you could get hurt. So he needs to give you a path. You need to ask him not, hey, why aren't you sharing our money? You don't trust me and not you heading hanging your head in shame saying I'm not trustworthy. We're past that. We're going to start establishing this. What does a path look like for me to re establish trust? And let's take infidelity. Sometimes people say, I want to see your phone every night. I want us to get new phone plans. I want us to change our numbers. I want you to cancel all your social media. And here's the thing. The person who got cheated on can lay out whatever path they want. And then the other person gets to decide whether I'm going to follow that path or not, whether I want to be a part of this relationship or not. And when that, when you start walking that path, they can't weaponize the past because they have said I'm in this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Too.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Yeah. And. And re establishing money, like sharing your money together is part of. Me and my wife share a single account. George and his wife do. Dave and Sharon, like the people that I know are, that are successful and the data bears it out. Couples who share finances do better because not because, not just because of the money. But that means they share a picture on what they value, where they want to go with their life, what their shared vision is like. All that stuff gets wrapped up in. We all know where the money is and all that. So it's just you humbly asking for a clear roadmap. And we're going to do one at 30 days. We're going to do one at 60 days, we're going to do one at 90 days. And we're going to continue to work down this path together until both of you feel safe enough in your guts that both feet are in this boat and we are rowing the same.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Direction.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Can I give you some ideas, Lee, of some tactical things you could do that might, it might make him go, who are you? Number one, Cut up all of your Credit cards and close all the.

[Caller]

Accounts.

[George Camel]

Okay. And then all of them. Here, here's the baller move. You freeze your credit and you give him the. The passcode so that you can't open any type of account. You can't take on any type of debt if your account is frozen, if your credit's frozen. And then on top of that, say, hey, you know what? We're gonna have a joint account, but I don't want the debit card right now. And we're going to turn on transaction alerts so that anytime anything comes out of the account, we both get a text message of what.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Happened. Or to celebrate your guys getting back together, we're going to give you a year of every dollar premium. It will alert each of you if somebody spends something with a debit.

[Caller]

Card.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay? Okay. But these are some things you can put on the table. When he's like, what are you talking about? A roadmap to trust. I'm going to do this thing and this thing and this thing. I want to know a path so that we can re. Establish trust in this marriage. All in. Both feet in the boat, both of.

[George Camel]

Us. Here's what I've already. Here's what I'm doing now. Here's what I plan on doing. I'd like to check back in, and then maybe you guys agree on a timeline. Hey, we're going to check back in. And six months from now, if all is good, then we're going to open the floodgates and it's going to be, you know, we're just going to fly and build wealth together. And I, you know, I think that will prove to you more than to.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Him. That's exactly.

[George Camel]

Right. That has changed. Because I don't know that you trust you right now, Lee. You probably have some shame and guilt and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Baggage. Yeah, for.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Sure. And by the way, you have to have the courage to say, I don't want to re. Engage in this marriage if only one of your feet is going to be in the boat. And so you get to say, one of my. One of my bedrocks, One of the thing that's going to be important for us moving forward is that we get back to trusting each other enough to share money, to share whatever. And so I. But I also know that's a tough, scary thing right now. So I need a path. But you get to say, this is a big deal to me, not just I'm gonna put my head down and go along with whatever he says because I screwed up and I'm just a Whipping post. That's it won't work that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Way.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Right? You know what I'm saying? I'm proud of.

[George Camel]

You. Thank.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You. Thank.

[George Camel]

You. This is a big step, Lee, and I'm so just inspired by the reconciliation and I hope that you guys are fully reconciled soon. Full unity, building wealth together like never before before with an amazing marriage. So hang on the line. We're going to send you every dollar. That'll impress them. Go. Hey, I'm working on my budget this month. You want to take a look? Like who? Who is this.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Person? Or our.

[George Camel]

Budget. Now we're.

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[George Camel]

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[George Camel]

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[Co-host/Financial Expert]

States. Today's question comes from Wyatt in Montana. Dude.

[George Camel]

Wyatt. I love this.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Already. From Montana. I love that name. We recently started the baby steps and me and my family are on step two. We've been snowballing pretty successfully. He sounds like a Wyatt. We've been snowballing pretty successfully by selling stuff and we're making good progress. Our question is that with all the stuff that's going on around the world, how is it rational to stick to this? My instinct is to use extra cash right now to cash flow, stocking up on food, ammo and water. Should we really stick to the baby steps or make sure our family is ready for any unexpected.

[Caller]

Disaster?

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Wow. This could have been a question from John Deloney in.

[George Camel]

Nashville. You wish you were Wyatt.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Montana. I do. I.

[George Camel]

Do. Okay, so there's a part of this that I understand, which is, hey, there's some crazy stuff going on. Should we just stockpile some cash in case? Because we got debt. If he's on baby step two, it means he has $1,000 to his name and savings. The rest is going towards consumer debt. So is this a storm mode where you go, we got to batten down the hatches and just save up money? I'm going to say no. Should you stick to the steps? Yes. Should you make sure your family's ready for unexpected disaster? That's the part we need a definition.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Of. Right? Right. And so if your unexpected disaster is the air conditioner going out, the you losing your job, the stock market crashing, not owing anybody any money is a really great place to find yourself. Having no other payments other than we have to scratch and claw our way to. Right. To pay our bills, there's a.

[George Camel]

Real disaster in front of you, which is the debt, the mess that you made. And so I'm not going to focus on what could be. And is there going to be, you know, World War III and it's all going to come down and that therefore I'm going to hang on to my debts forever. That's a terrible way to.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Live. Yeah. And the. I. I just. Again, I quote my friend who. Who told me this years ago, but I don't have a meteorite plan. I do. I have a lot of meat in the freezer. Hunting season just wrapped up here. So, like, I do.

[George Camel]

Right. Am I going to Deloney's house if something goes down?

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Absolutely. He would never make it. But, like, do we have unrealistic stockpiles of water, et cetera? No, because if. If the water, local, municipal water gets cut off, we're gonna have a whole different issue going on. Right. And so I think that. Think our. Our family's life is going to be like this, just minus these things. It will not be. It will be such utter, wild, apocalyptic chaos that. Right. So it is easy to get distracted when you're doing. When you. When you get past the energy stage. George. Like the. It's. It's like the January 15th at a gym. Like, already it's starting to fall off because everyone got excited. They started their first workouts. They even got sore the first couple ones. I feel like they're doing something. And then about January 15th, you're like, oh, I just have to do this forever. And it just goes. And so it's real easy. When you're in baby step two, you're selling stuff, you're feeling it, paying debts off that. You look up and you're like, oh, we have two more years of this. Four more years of this. What about water? Namo, Right? Stay the path, stay on the.

[George Camel]

Path. The other thing is, dude, you live in Montana, not Gaza. Like, let's not act like it's all coming down in Montana. Like, there's some, there's some scary places. There's some scary things happening. Montana's fine right now. And so unless there's imminent danger in your area, I would stick to the plan. And if something really did happen, sure, you can pause the baby step, stack up cash. I don't think the apocalypse is on the list right.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Now. And Montana's probably one of the places where you'd want to find.

[George Camel]

Yourself. That's.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Right. If it all went down, I would love to be in.

[George Camel]

Montana. Don't tell the zombies. They'll go there.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

First. They'll never make.

[George Camel]

It. Tim is in Los Angeles. Up next. What's going on.

[Caller]

Tim? Hey, I was curious. Me and my wife are getting ready to pay. We'll pay off our $148,000 worth of debt and. Yeah, I know, right? And I was trying to kind of see what's next because we do have like, you know, a three month, like quote emergency fund. But, you know, we're trying to wonder too, like with these Trump accounts, should we just install, like, if they happen, great. But, you know, we were trying to figure out, like, should we start investing, like in a high yield savings or something like that for our kid now who's doing.

[George Camel]

April? So you're in baby step two, you've already done baby step three, and you want to skip to baby step five. Did I hear that? Okay? I would, I would do them in order, which is take your emergency fund and let's focus on the emergency at hand, which is the debt. Could you clear your debts with the amount you have in.

[Caller]

Savings? Yes. We could do it honestly within probably the next like 30 to 60 days, even without the emergency fund. And that's kind of like where I'm at. And, you know, all right.

[George Camel]

Bet. Then pay off your debt today and spend the next 30 days restocking the emergency.

[Caller]

Fund.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay. In Vegas, we call that. I.

[George Camel]

Call. So that's one. One idea number two, Once you are through baby step three, you're now a baby step four, which is to put your own mask on and invest 15% in your own.

[Caller]

Retirement. The other problem is we don't actually own a house at this time, especially here in California. It's a little more difficult these days. But. And so that's kind of like the underlying question is like, do we just pay off the debt and then save, you know, do that gazelle intensity towards like a house or, you know, put our child's future ahead of our.

[George Camel]

Own? Well, I don't, I don't think any of those are the options. I think you should invest 15%. And if it's going to take you a long time to save the down payment, that's okay. If you're going to stay in California long term, it might take you eight years to save a down payment instead of.

[Caller]

Two.

[George Camel]

Right. And so that's the math of it. But I would not put any money towards. And here's the thing with the Trump accounts, the government is, did you have a child in 2025 through 2028? Is that the.

[Caller]

Plan?

[George Camel]

Yes. Okay. So I'm going to open one and here's why I would love the free thousand dollars from the government. After all the money I've given them, it's time they give a little back. You don't have to put any money into it. And I personally wouldn't. I did a whole video on this. It's really not super impressive. Other than the free thousand bucks that will grow from age 0 to, you know, 65 into a few hundred grand. That's awesome. Not mad about that, but I would invest for your kids in a 529 plan which has tax advantages of tax free growth. And if you want to invest outside of that, you could just open up a brokerage account in your name and you can use that to save up for their wedding or, you know, a down payment on a house for them one.

[Caller]

Day.

[George Camel]

Right. So I love the.

[Caller]

Motive. And the 529 plan, how exactly would you go about that? That's the first time I've even heard of.

[George Camel]

It. Yeah, well, there's, there's a blog about it on our website and so I'll make sure we get you that link and we'll put it in the show notes as well for anyone who's interested. But a 529 plan is just a plan to save for college where you use after tax money and that money then grows tax free for education purposes. So you can withdraw it tax free. To use for your kids college. And they've even expanded it now. It could be for trade schools and training and supplies and all kinds of things. So it's a great way to save for college with compound growth and some tax advantages. So that's what I'm currently doing for. For both of my kids. I put money in there every single month. If they get birthday money from grandma, Grandpa, it goes into the 529 account. But here's the new. Here's the bad news. If you don't invest for retirement, your kids are gonna have to fund it. And so that's why we tell people to put their mask on first. There's a hundred percent chance you need to retire one.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Day.

[George Camel]

50. 50 chance your kids even go to college and.

[Caller]

Graduate.

[George Camel]

Right. So you're doing a lot of good things, Tim. You've got a great heart and you're so close. You're on the cusp of this amazing financial foundation. But I would just do the plan in order. It works, man. It works. Pay off the debt today. And if that scares you, that tells me that you probably should do it because you'll stack up that cash in no time. If you put, you know, 20 grand towards the debt. And now we need 20 grand in the emergency fund. Well, now we're just paying ourselves instead of a lender. I would rather do that any day. It's hard, John. There's so much you could do. There's so many things that are good things. We want to pay off debt. We want to save. We want to save for the kids. We want to save for retirement. And that's why I love the baby steps. It just takes out all the ambiguity and gives you just a clear nope. Do that first. Nope. Do that next. And that's what I do. It's what I've done for my family. It's what John does for.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

His. It's just it. I get it, though. It gets. It feels so hard when the world's all screaming at you from every different angle. It's hard to just stay the course, just stay on the.

[George Camel]

Path. And now there's a new one, the Trump account. So now we're.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Distracted. It's like.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Squirrel. It's like, look over.

[George Camel]

Here. Look over here.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Look. It's like just the folks that win unhook from the system completely and just follow a different path. And we've laid it out for.

[George Camel]

You. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, here with Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888825 5225. Teresa is in Indianapolis. Up next. Teresa, what's going.

[Dr. John Deloney]

On? Hi. How are you.

[George Camel]

Doing? Great. How can John and I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Help? Well, so my mom's 82 years old, and she just got hearing aids for $2,000. And she is asking me and my sisters to help pay the money back that she charged to her credit cards. And, you know, she doesn't. She lives on her Social Security. She never really saved for retirement. And I feel like even every time we go out, she, you know, expects us to pay for the dinners or lunches or whatever we do. And most of the time I do, but not all the time. And I've helped her before with her budget, and I know she can save to pay for this purchase. But how do I approach her about asking for money and the entitlement she obviously feels that we owe her? What would you do? I'm on baby step two right now and really don't have the money to give.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Her. Well, I think you just answered your own question. I think the part that sounds like it's weighing you down is the stories you're telling yourself about her requests. And so if you've offered to pay for dinner a bunch of times, I don't fault her for just assuming you're going to always pay for it. If you think that's a move on her part, and she's done that before, and she's always trying to. Like, your whole childhood, she was trying to get people to pay for food or whatever, that's another story. But if you're. If you don't have the money, you can just say, hey, Mom, I'm working on my own finances. I can't kick in on this time. That's it. And you can't control what questions she asks you. You can't control her temper tantrums. You can't control the guilt you would feel because you want to be able to do it. You just can't right now. You can't control any of that stuff. What you can control is what you do. The next right move you make, your feelings are going to happen regardless. What's the next right thing? The next right thing is I can't afford it. I can't help right.

[George Camel]

Now. Have you ever pushed back on her and just said, hey, Mom, I love you? I want to be honest. I'm not able to give you money anymore. I got to focus on my own financial.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Responsibilities? I have. I've said to her before, you Know, she asked me, you know, why haven't we been doing some stuff as much as we used to? And I said, well, Mom, I can't afford you. Like, every time we go to lunch, you expect me to pay. And then even when I pay, you know, you don't say thank you. And, you know, I just. I don't have the funds. Like, I have to. When I think of going out, you know, I have to watch my pennies because I'm trying to, you know, get out of.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Debt. But can y' all do other things? Can y' all go for a walk? Can you take some dominoes over to her house? And, like, is it have to be things that we spend money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

On? No, it doesn't. And I've tried to curve it that way as well, too. It's just sometimes it's just really hard because I know she's, you know, she's never really been ahead of the eight ball with money. And, you know, I just wish I was in a better financial position to help her with these things. But, you know, some of it, I. I feel like, you know, she set herself up for this.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Too. Yeah. But, you know, you just nailed it. And that's what. I didn't want to say it out loud, but you said it, so I'll want to pull that string a little bit. A lot of this sounds like she's making requests that you, as her daughter, wish you could just give her the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

World.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

No. And you can't. And so if you feel guilty, if you feel bummed out, if you feel sad about your own financial situation, man, don't compound that frustration and pain and guilt and yada, yada by blaming her. It would be cool if we all had enough money to give our parents whatever we wanted, but most of us don't, and it just stinks. And so we can either just cut off contact, which is a whole bunch of people do, which I think's insane, or we can say, hey, I'm start coming over to your house on Tuesdays. I'm going to make coffee at the house and bring over a pitcher of coffee. Or, mom, you make the coffee. I'm bringing the dominoes. We're going to play. And I can control that part. And it's not as cool as a hip diner in whatever town and yada, but it'll still be valuable time with your mom that you'll be glad that you.

[George Camel]

Spent. What do your siblings feel about this? Are they also wanting to stop the sort of forced.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Giving? Absolutely. Yeah. And we're all in different positions, and we all don't have the money right now. Like, I have one sister has kids in college. The other sister just lost a dog and had to pay for her heater in her house. And my other sister just had a surgery, and I had a surgery last.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Year. So, like, here's the better part. You don't have to have a reason. Yeah, you can just say, mom, I can't help out right now. Thanks for thinking of me, and that's it. And then hang up the.

[George Camel]

Phone. And if she chooses not to pay the credit card bill because she won't or can't, then she deals with the consequences of that. It might go to collections. Someone might be harassing her on the phone, telling her she needs to pay or.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Else. I don't know if you can repo hearing aids. I don't think you can, but maybe. I don't.

[George Camel]

Know. Yeah, but that's the hard part of setting the boundary is it makes you feel bad, but you need to just repeat the boundary, make it clear. Because otherwise, if she knows that boundary is flexible, she's going to get over it every.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Time. Every.

[George Camel]

Time. So just hold the line. And about four times in, she's gonna, oh, this is a dead end. I'll try another sibling. And if she chooses to opt out of the relationship because of that, the sad part is it was transactional for the, you know, who knows how long before that? Does she reach out without money being.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Involved? Oh.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Okay, so there's a relationship outside of.

[Caller]

This? There.

[George Camel]

Is. Okay, good. And maybe one day you guys are all in a better place and you go, hey, we're going to take mom on this amazing trip, but it needs to be on your terms. And right now, all of it has been entitlement and guilt instead of, man, it'll be really cool to just cover mom's hearing aids. That'd be a cool gift to.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Her. But if you like her and want to spend time with her, go over to her house with some dominoes and some coffee and some homemade cookies or whatever. And when she asks the question that she's inevitably going to ask, which is, can I have some money? You say, no, I don't have it, mom, right now. All right, your turn. And maybe choose to deal with a couple of awkward questions or annoying questions or guilt inducing questions for the greater sake of the relationship. But you and your siblings don't need a whole bunch of, well, this. I got college and I got a sick dog. You don't need all those excuses. You can just together or individually say, as for me and my house right now, we're not going to participate, but we love you, we're still gonna hang out with.

[George Camel]

You. And she's not gonna be on the street. I mean, she's not in dire straits.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Here.

[George Camel]

Right? Does she have other financial problems that are pretty intense or is it just, hey, she owes a little bit on a credit.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Card? No, she just constantly like something happens, she puts it on the credit card. She's just in a cycle. And I've tried like I've worked on her budget before when she let me and you know, I even bumped it up a little bit so that she didn't realize she was actually saving money and. But now she won't let me. It's been a couple years and she won't let me redo her budget so that I can help.

[George Camel]

Her. She doesn't want you involved on that side. Yeah, that's a sign. If she doesn't want your help getting better with money, she just wants the money, then that's a sign that you need to stop. And maybe one day she opens up again and says, hey, listen, I'm struggling. I got collections people calling me, can you help me figure out a way out of this? And you go, yeah, here's a way out. And it's not going to be you giving her money, it's you showing her how to get out of this once and for all. And maybe that'll get her to stop using a credit card. The hard part is the credit card companies are insane for giving an 82 year old a line of credit who's living on Social.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Security. Well, they're not insane if their kids are going to pay it back.

[George Camel]

You know, I mean like it'll get paid out of her estate or collections or it'll be a tax write off one day.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[George Camel]

Today, John is in Fort Worth, Texas. John, welcome to the Ramsey.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Show.

[Caller]

Hello. Good.

[George Camel]

Afternoon. How are you.

[Caller]

Doing? I'm doing pretty good. I got a good spot to be at, but I still have the question of what do I do? So I'm wondering, where do I go from here? Me and my wife, with our investments and like, in the future we just completed, we're basically baby or not. We are baby step seven now, just this month paid off the.

[George Camel]

House. That's amazing. Congrats. What's the house.

[Caller]

Worth? About.

[George Camel]

300,000. Awesome. And what do you guys have in retirement right.

[Caller]

Now? Because we did put basically just like 10% at the time. We just stepped that up, or she stepped hers up for a 401k. We're sitting around 155, I think, counting hers and mine.

[George Camel]

Together.

[Caller]

Okay. But where I currently work, I only have a Roth IRA option. They don't have.

[George Camel]

401K. They don't have a retirement plan through your.

[Caller]

Employer.

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Caller]

Okay. So we're doing that. Like I'm. We started that last month. I started funding mine for last year, and now this year I'm gonna end up funding mine and one for her. That way it gets me to the 15% or actually above it. Just max it.

[George Camel]

Out. Yeah. What's your household income? What's the gross income you guys will bring in this.

[Caller]

Year? 2026, it should be about 150. We were beyond that before because I used to get lot of overtime, but I changed jobs this year. Pay went up a little bit, but no.

[George Camel]

Overtime. Okay, cool. So what's your.

[Caller]

Question? Well, where we go with the investments from here? So after the IRA, after the 401k, we're going to have the house payment, plus we were putting up to 17 grand. Actually a little more than 17 grand a year extra on the house to get the house paid off in 10 years. We actually beat 10. We're at nine years and a couple months is what we ended up.

[George Camel]

With. That's.

[Caller]

Awesome. So we were still able to live our lives off of that. So it's like, okay, do I just put it the rest of it in a for. Into a brokerage account for a. Like A S&P.

[George Camel]

500? You said your wife has a retirement plan through her.

[Caller]

Employer?

[George Camel]

Yes. What is.

[Caller]

That? Hers is currently a traditional. And she Said that they were changing that to a.

[George Camel]

Roth.

[Caller]

Okay. But right now we're trying to figure out where we have to do what percentage we have to do out of her pay. So that way we can max that out, which is, I believe.

[George Camel]

8,15,000. Well, the 401k is closer to 23,000 or 23,5. So here's the. Here's the good news. 15%, which you can invest more of. 150 grand is 22,5. So you still have the tax advantage options. If you both do a Roth IRA this year, I think they just upped it to seven. 500 is the cap for each Roth IRA. So that puts you guys at 15 grand there, leaving seven grand to invest. You could do seven grand in her 401K on the Roth.

[Caller]

401K. Yeah. But then after that, like, the way I look at it, doing the finances, we're gonna. We're gonna eclipse that. We're gonna have more than that, and you'll have.

[George Camel]

More. You could fully. Let's try to max out the 401k and max out two Roth IRAs. That would be my goal for 20, 26, if I'm in your.

[Caller]

Shoes. All right, but then what do I do with the extra after.

[George Camel]

That? So you're saying you're gonna invest the 23 plus the 15. That puts you at 38,000 and you're still going to have more to invest.

[Caller]

Correct? Yeah. We looked at. We looked at our budget, and we were sitting around 47. That was like.

[George Camel]

Okay. Wow, that's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Awesome.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Do you guys have a high deductible health care.

[Caller]

Plan? No, unfortunately we.

[George Camel]

Don'T.

[Caller]

Okay. Unfortunately we.

[George Camel]

Don'T. I guess because if you have an hsa, you can invest through that and it sort of becomes a loophole retirement account. So if you don't have that. So I'm kind of going through in my mind, what are all of the tax advantaged options? And that's going to be your 401k, your IRAs, your HSA. If you run out of those options, then you can be investing into a brokerage account in the.

[Caller]

Market. All.

[George Camel]

Right. Which is not tax.

[Caller]

Advantage. And that's. That's where my question came in. Because it's like, do we still follow the investment recommendation? Growth grants of income aggressive, like. Or do we just do S&P.

[George Camel]

500? Yeah, you could do either. I mean, S&P 500 is simple and outside of retirement, that's a great option. That's what Dave would do. If Dave gets a big royalty Check for total money makeover. He's just going to throw it into an index fund, into a brokerage.

[Caller]

Account.

[George Camel]

Okay. So I would just go that route. And how old are you.

[Caller]

Guys? I just turned 40 and she's.

[George Camel]

41. Oh, amazing. Think about that, dude. You're in baby step seven. No payments in the world. Investing 40, 50 grand a year. Go pop that into an investment.

[Caller]

Calculator. Trying to figure out what to do.

[George Camel]

Next. That's what you do next. And you keep doing it year after year and it's not exciting. And people are going to tell you, dude, you need to be more sophisticated and you should put your money here and crypto is going to take off and you should buy real estate. Stick, stick to the plan, stick to what you know, what you understand, and you will be multi, multi millionaires in.

[Caller]

Retirement. Yeah, sounds.

[George Camel]

Good. Congratulations, man. Never go back into debt. Keep investing as much as you can and also enjoy your life. You know, we always talk about John. There's three things you can do with money. Give, save, spend. And it's easy to have too much muscle in one area where like I'm so good at saving and investing and you realize it's like.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Hoarding.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And you're giving muscles atrophied and you're spending muscle. Your wife is like, dude, we haven't been on vacation in 12 years and we have a paid for.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

House. That may have been my.

[George Camel]

House. That's John. And also mine right now with a toddler and a newborn. I'm like, I'm not going anywhere. But that's a good reminder. And congratulations on baby step seven with the paid for house. Matthew is in Columbus. Up next. What's going on? Matthew, you with us? We were so close to a great call with Matthew. It was going to be gangbusters. All right, we'll try again. Oh, there we.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Are. There he is. Hey.

[George Camel]

Matthew. Took him a.

[Caller]

Second. Hi. How you guys.

[George Camel]

Doing? Great. What's your question.

[Caller]

Today? Yeah, trying to refinance the house that I got and got a lower rate, obviously. But now when I pay, oh, you know, I want to pay over my mortgage rate. I was told maybe invest that money.

[George Camel]

Instead. Who told you.

[Caller]

That? A family member. But I was, I was under the impression if I can pay off my mortgage faster, I can pay off my mortgage faster and then that just opens up a lot more money in the.

[George Camel]

Future. Yeah, you're right. And you know, that's what we teach in the baby steps and it's, it's what I've done. In my personal.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Life. Me.

[George Camel]

Too. And so you can trust the family member you're going to.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Be.

[George Camel]

You're. You're not. You're still going to go to heaven, you know? So, like, it's not like this is a. But the Ramsey plan says, hey, if you're in baby step six, which you are, put any extra money toward the mortgage while investing 15. So are you investing 15% of your household income right.

[Caller]

Now? Yes, mandatory with my.

[George Camel]

Job. Cool. And then how much extra can you throw at the mortgage? Like, how fast is this thing going to get paid off if you follow our.

[Caller]

Plan? Well, it's going to hopefully refinance, and I'm hoping to get an extra two payments in a.

[George Camel]

Year. Okay. Have you done that, the mortgage payoff calculator on our website to see what that.

[Caller]

Does? I have not. I only get to listen to the show for, like, 20 minutes on my commute.

[George Camel]

Home. Oh, thank you for hanging with us today. I would tonight, when you get home, I would just pop onto our mortgage payoff calculator, see what those extra payments would do, and then have a. Have a game plan and go, all right, six years, we're gonna have this mortgage paid off. And the good news is the mortgage gets freed up, and then you have the rest of your life to.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Invest that payment, and nobody can come take your house away. Which for all the people who are like, this is what you need to do is what you need to do. I'm telling you, man, there's something about having a house that is yours that even if your local city jacks up your tax rate on it, it. It's super annoying. But you don't have a house payment. Like, nobody could take your house. There's something so profound about that safety and security for you and for your.

[George Camel]

Family. Yeah, it's more than math. And I've seen the argument. Well, I have a 3% rate. Why would I not invest or even put it in a high yield savings account? I get it. You could make the argument on paper, but those people, they're. They're forgetting about the psychological component. And you truly can't explain it to someone unless you do it and live it. That it just is a more peaceful life. I sleep better because I don't have a mortgage payment. And I never think about, man, what could I have made if I invested that money instead of putting it toward the mortgage? I never have thought that once. I just go, cool, I got a freed up mortgage payment. I'm on track to be a multimillionaire in retirement. Life is good.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Camel]

Excellent.

[Caller]

Yeah. Thank you so very much. I appreciate.

[George Camel]

It. Absolutely. Hey, what's your mortgage payment, by the.

[Caller]

Way? I'm hoping to get it down to 12,5. I mean 1250 bucks a.

[George Camel]

Month. 1250, okay. That's fantastic. Is that principal, interest, taxes, insurance, all of that? Is that just principal and.

[Caller]

Interest? Yeah, it's all taxes. Everything's all wrapped into.

[George Camel]

One. I would also do some fun math using our investment calculator and go, all right, six years from now, I'm 46. If I invest that thousand dollar principal and interest from 46 to 65, what does that turn into? That's some pretty cool math too. On top of not having a payment for the next several days, nobody's.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Ever said the words pretty cool math except for you.

[George Camel]

George. Thank you. I like pretty cool.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[George Camel]

Insurance. Everyone needs insurance. But it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck. And agents who act actually know their stuff well. Ramsey trusted insurance pros, they're vetted, they're coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests at heart, AKA they're not going to sell you crappy products that we would never recommend. So if you want to learn more, go to Ramsey Solutions.com coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Silas is in Tampa. Up next. Silas, welcome to the.

[Caller]

Show. Thank you for having.

[George Camel]

Me. Sure. How can we.

[Caller]

Help? So I have a Chevy Colorado and I owe 36,000 on it. And my wife's car, she has a Toyota ch. Excuse me, a Toyota chr. And she just had a transmission. It didn't go out, but the dealership told her that it's bad and they don't know how long it'll last. So it's about $13,000 to fix and we're 22, both of us are, and we're just trying to fix, get our finances in order. And I want to get rid of the truck or I want to do something with the truck. I just looking for advice. What I can do with.

[George Camel]

It. Okay. What's your household.

[Caller]

Income? I make. We work at the same job. We. I make 1650 every paycheck, which I get paid twice a month. And she makes around 11 or 1200. I'd have to look at, like, exactly. But it's rough. I think it's like 1150. She makes about 1150. I make about 1650 every paycheck, and we get paid twice a.

[George Camel]

Month. Got it. So you're talking like 3200 and 2200. Let's call it 5400.

[Caller]

5500. Correct.

[George Camel]

Okay. So how much is her car.

[Caller]

Worth? I just took it. I looked it up on Kelly blue book, and they said it's worth about 13 to 15,000. It's like the. They have that fair price, poor.

[George Camel]

Price. Is that the private party value or trade.

[Caller]

In? That would be the private party.

[George Camel]

Value. Okay. And is that with the repair needed or is that saying, hey, if we got the repair done, it's worth 13.

[Caller]

Grand? Oh, no, that's just. That's just. That didn't include the repair. That's just it by itself. Like, if it was okay right now because it's a. It's a 20.

[George Camel]

21.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Dang. Well, hold on. Hey, before you do anything, go to a local mechanic that you trust. That's not the.

[George Camel]

Dealer. I don't trust.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Them.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah, they were kind of bull crapping.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Us. You go to a local mechanic, if it's a. If it's a transmission on a Toyota and it's a 21, my guess is it's covered somewhere in the powertrain.

[Caller]

Warranty. Right. So I'm not sure because her grandparents bought her the car. Her. There was a whole.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Situation. Yeah, that doesn't matter. That doesn't.

[Caller]

Matter.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Okay. Like, I go to a local mechanic and get the skinny on it.

[George Camel]

Okay. And maybe a third mechanic get another opinion because then they look at.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

It and say, yeah, this happens all the time with this car. Or, yeah, this is under warranty. Or, dude, you don't have a problem at all. All these cars do.

[George Camel]

This. Have you checked to see if they warranty the transmission because it's.

[Caller]

Newer? They didn't say. They didn't. I asked them, like, I asked him a ton of questions when I was there at the dealership, and they didn't give me, like, a straight up answer. I was just asking. I was like, there a warranty on this? And they didn't. They were just like beating around the bush with me, talking about how I need to get a New.

[George Camel]

Transmission. I would do your own homework on that and figure it out, because here's the truth. If it's gonna take 13 grand to repair and the car is only worth 13 grand, I wouldn't do this. I would sell it for what it's worth, save up some money and then get a different car. Now what's your truck.

[Caller]

Worth? My truck. I took it in yesterday while her car was getting worked on. And they said the appraisal, the. The appraised value for selling it outright is 19,000 and to trade it in is 22 to.

[George Camel]

25,000. How is it possible the trade in is higher than what it's.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Worth? What's. Because they're giving you a cash number. Don't do this kind of business with.

[George Camel]

Dealership. Don't ask the dealership what your car is worth. They'll lie through their.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Teeth. Go. Private.

[George Camel]

Sale. Yeah. Go to the Kelley Blue Book, back to where you were. What is the private party value for that truck? Because that'll tell you the exact difference. You're underwater. You owe 36. If the truck is worth, let's say 25. Well, now we know we have a number. We're 11 grand.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Underwater. That's what they tell you. The trade in.

[Caller]

Was. They told me the trade in was 22 to 25 and then selling it was.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

19. Okay, that means you can probably get 27 to 30 private.

[George Camel]

Value. So you might be six grand underwater. So how quickly could you guys save up the difference in order to sell it and have a little bit more to get you a different.

[Caller]

Car?

[George Camel]

Right. And could you share a car.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

For a few months or go down to Fairwinds Credit Union, get a $10,000 loan, pay this thing the difference off, sell this thing private party, use a couple of grand to get yourself a car that's going to get you from A to B and pay that loan off. And you've just taken a $36,000 problem down to.

[Caller]

10, right?

[George Camel]

Yeah. Do you guys have any other.

[Caller]

Debts? Um, I do, I have. It's a. It's a few small debts. It's like from like, it's from synchrony bank. It's like a $1,000 debt and a $2,000 debt and then I have like a. One of my credit. My credit card got shut down and it was really my works fault. So I filed a complaint with the capital one, which is who I have the car loan and the credit card.

[George Camel]

Through. So what's your total debt balance between the two of.

[Caller]

You? She has zero debt I have, I would say, probably close to $40,000, including the car and those. Those few things with the. The synchrony bank and my credit.

[George Camel]

Card. Okay, so the good news is, if we clear this truck, you guys can be debt free within 30 to 60 days, right? So that's the new goal. Now the thing is, we got to save up the money to cover the difference. Or like John said, go to your local credit union and get the difference in a loan so that we can reduce 36 grand down to 10. So that's the game. So you have two pieces of homework. We got to work on your wife's car, figure out what it's really going to cost from a few mechanics, and then we need to either save up for the repair cost if it's going to be worth it, or we need to just sell it for what we can get for it and get a different.

[Caller]

Car. Yes.

[George Camel]

Sir. So you. You got plenty of work to do, man, and it's very doable. I feel very hopeful about your situation, but it sucks. And I'm glad you're learning this lesson at 22 instead of 42, that car loans. Here's the. Here's the best news. When you pay cash for a car, you can never be underwater. And so never go into car loan debt again. Never lease a car, never go to a dealership and let them convince you into a payment. You go in there with a check, and John has done this where he goes in, he's got a check for a certain amount, and he goes, this is how much I have. If you guys want to do business, I'm here. If not, I'll peace.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Out. And I've had them say, hey, appreciate you. We shake hands, and I walk out, and I had somebody take $9,000 off of a car price because I had a check. And I said, hey, this is what me and my wife agreed on before I left the house. And I'm not going to call her and switch the deal up on me. This is a big check. I would like that car. Let me go talk to my manager. Come back, let me go talk to my.

[George Camel]

Manager. Play the.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Games. And they said, just take this car and get out of here. And I was like, cool, right?

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Right. But.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

It. Here's the deal. I wasn't tied to the car. It wasn't like, this is my dream. Like, it's just. It's a car, man. It's awesome. It's nice. I love it. But it's not my identity. It's not my end. All be All. And if that one didn't work out, I was gonna find another one. That's.

[Caller]

Cool. Yeah, that's what I think my wife's situation, her car is. It's. It's got 80,000 miles on it. And Toyota, they can go for a pretty long time and. But her grandparents bought it for. So I guess she's a little emotionally tied to it and. But she's also understanding that the more practical aspect is I'm willing to pay the price, you know, maybe sometime down the road then, you know, if they wanted to help us on another car or whatever. But she's just, I guess, emotionally attached to it because I don't. I have no idea, to be honest with.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

You. Well, it doesn't sound like it's smart to sell it until you know your.

[Caller]

Situation. Right.

[George Camel]

Right. And if you can fix it for three grand, great, let's fix.

[Caller]

It. Right? Yeah. Because they told me like I looked it up and it said that there was a. It could be a wheel bearing or it could be the transmission. And then they go in there and they give me the highest bid possible, which I kind of expected them to give me. The most.

[George Camel]

Expensive. Well, here's the thing. Dealerships make money two ways, financing and the.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Service. They don't make money when you walk in with a check and buy a.

[Caller]

Car.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Right. And so they have a vested interest in getting you to do all of their service. That's why you get a million emails every day like you didn't do this or you need to do this.

[George Camel]

Or time to come in time for your.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Checkup. And so take it to a local mechanic. And by the way, when you go to the local mechanic, look him in the eye or her in the eye and say, I'm coming here because you're. Somebody has a reputation that is trustworthy. I got this information from a dealer and I want you to check their work because I trust you and let that be their.

[Caller]

Guide. Really quick question. What do you recommend? How would I private sell? What's the best way to private.

[George Camel]

Sell? You listen on Facebook Marketplace, you pay a little bit, put on autotrader, take really nice photos. I actually did a video on this on my YouTube channel. Just search how to sell car for top dollar Camel. It'll pop right up. We'll also put in the show notes. And remember, don't let cars be more than half your annual income total. All things with wheels and motors. You do that, you're going to build some serious.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Wealth. When you're tired of feeling stuck with Money. There's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting Today, go with ramseysolutions.com.

[George Camel]

Start. Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 12:14. Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy. Without holiness, no one will see the Lord. Jordan Peterson said, face the demands of life voluntarily. Respond to a challenge instead of bracing or catastrophe. Oh, that's good. I think most of us are bracing for catastrophe these days. We're just tightened up, just waiting for life to happen to us instead of responding to the challenge and being a little more proactive. That's good. Maria is in San Jose. What's going on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Maria? Hi there, John and George. It's a pleasure speaking with you.

[George Camel]

Today. You.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Too. I have a question. Should I continue paying off my house with the same intensity if I want to retire in the next five to 10 years as I was paying off the debt, I'm completely debt free aside from the house.

[George Camel]

Now. Cool. Are you single?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Married? I am married, but I am the sole.

[George Camel]

Breadwinner. Okay, so at the rate that you're currently paying down the mortgage, how quickly will it be paid.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Off? Well, the way that I've calculated it would be three and a half.

[George Camel]

Years. Wow. And this is like, with serious intensity. Is this like overtime? No vacations? We're not living or.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What? No, I do take vacations maybe twice a.

[George Camel]

Year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And I worked a lot of.

[George Camel]

Work. Okay, well, that just helps me because I go gazelle. Intensity is rice and beans. We're not eating out. No vacations. We say move from intensity to intentionality once you hit baby step six. So as long as you know, you're. You have a happy life, you're going on vacation, you're enjoying your money, you're giving money, you're investing 15%. It's up to you how fast you go. Now, John and I are. We're crazy people. We're like you. We're like, let's get rid of this debt as fast as.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Possible. Yeah. So I went pretty scorched to earth. And I'll tell you, three and a half years is right at the outer limit for how long your body can.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Take.

[George Camel]

Okay. What does your husband.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Think? Well, currently he is not here with me. That's Why? I was kind of wanting to get this done over with so I can retire and go out of state with him. Well, out of the country. Because he's not.

[George Camel]

Here. Oh. Literally not here like you. You guys don't live near each other right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now. Correct. So my vacations are to go see.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Him.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Wow. Okay. So let me throw a complete wrench in this deal. Why not sell your house and just move there to be with.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Him? Because my whole family is.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Here. Ah, okay.

[Caller]

Fair. Fair.

[George Camel]

Wow. Okay. So how old are you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now? I am.

[George Camel]

45. And when do you want to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Retire? At the latest, I would say.

[George Camel]

55. And you're able to do that as far as actual nest egg retirement accounts, all of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That? Well, currently I do have about 50k in my high yield savings, 40k in my highest savings. I have total retirement accounts and brokerage like HSA and Roth. I have 256, I believe. And I also have a pension plan with my current.

[George Camel]

Employer. Okay, and so you're saying between all of that and me investing for the next decade, I should be able to make this whole plan.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Work? That's what I.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Was. And not having a house payment.

[George Camel]

And then you can invest a portion of whatever that house payment was. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that plan. The only encouragement I would give you is to retire to something instead of from something. Right now it feels like you're. You're running and it's a great goal because you want to be closer to your husband. But I wouldn't also, like, work a job that I hate and toil over it for the next decade or whatever. Do you enjoy what you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do? I.

[George Camel]

Do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I just. So that's another thing. It's like when I retire, I don't know if I'll be able to not do.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Anything. No, don't go away. You're too valuable to the world. We want. We need you. We need you out.

[George Camel]

There. Well, it likely will happen. You'll take a month vacation and then be bored and be like, I need to do something with some meaning and purpose. I'm gonna go start an encore career or your own business or consult.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Or something, or go down to halftime with your current employer, retire and have them bring you on as a 1099. Like there's a million different things and who knows what the world will look like in five years or ten years or whatever. But I, I personally. George, tell me if I'm wrong. I love Maria not having a house note in three.

[George Camel]

Years. I'm a big fan of that, I love it. We, we paid ours in like 26 months and now it was a very modest townhome. We had a huge down payment. So it wasn't like, I mean we, we went hard, but we were young, no kids, and we went, huh? What's stopping us? We were aligned on the goal and I look back with no regrets. So I don't think you will either. We were just kind of gut checking to make sure that you weren't going to burn out and fizzle out because your life was.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Unsustainable. Okay. Do you think with my numbers and what I have so far in retirement that that would be sustainable for me to be able to do that.

[George Camel]

Or I wouldn't be able to tell you on a, on a radio call. I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and you can lay out all the numbers and what your current investment rate is. And they have the most high tech software where they can plug it all in and show you exactly what will be true and what kind of life you can live and when. And so jump on ramseysolutions.com, click on Smartvestor Pro and, and lay it out with a pro and you can use our investment calculator and ballpark some of this. But there's so many variables that you forget about. Like healthcare, well, that's gonna cost a pretty penny when it's not through your employer, especially before you can access Medicare at 65. So that's a whole nother wrench in the plan. That's gonna be 36 grand a year. We gotta cover for healthcare as one example. And then what kind of lifestyle you want to have in retirement? Are you going to live real simple or do you want to go crazy? And you know, they found what happens in retirement is it's kind of a smile shape. And so at first your spending actually goes up, it's a little dimple there. And then what happens is over time, your spending actually goes down as you kind of settle in, you travel less, less vacations, less excitement. And then as you near the end of your life, the expenses ramp back up, up as you enter, you know, healthcare, long term care costs and all of that. And so it's not a straight line where you go, well, can I live off five grand a year for the rest of my life? I wish it were that simple. But life is more complicated and that's where a pro can really help you unpack all of those variables. Thank you so much for the call. It's exciting to be debt free. In California before you're 50. That's a miracle. J.R. is in Atlanta. Junior, how can we help.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

You?

[George Camel]

You. It's a sad ending. Junior, are you.

[Caller]

Here? Yes, I'm.

[George Camel]

Here. There we go. Okay, get right to your question. We're up against the.

[Caller]

Clock. Yeah. So I'm 24. I'm going through college, and I'm trying to earn a degree that'll make me the most amount of money in the quickest time frame. I don't enjoy the field I'm currently in, but my goal is to chase money and then figure out what I want to do after. Is this the right.

[George Camel]

Mentality?

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Yikes. No, it's.

[Caller]

Backwards. Okay, so now here's the.

[George Camel]

Thing. I don't. We don't need to conflate the two. I think you can hustle and work really hard at something you love, and that is the recipe, because you'll never get bored of that. So I would not do something I hate and get a degree just because I think it will pay well. You meet a lot of those.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

People, they're not happy, miserable billionaires, and.

[George Camel]

They never go, well, at least now I can do whatever I want. I've never met someone who said.

[Caller]

That. Okay, so here's my counter to that, right? Like, so my counter to that is, is that you, let's say, let's have a passion in, you know, art creation. I like to paint or whatever. Right. You know, you know, to be honest, you know, that's not starting the most, you know, paying field. So. So my mentality and honestly, my advice that I give most other people is that, you know, screw you know, what you enjoy, per se, that's not making money, and just, you know, go to school for something that's paying. Like, for example, I'm about to get my degree in December for software engineering. Right now. I'm a software engineer, team lead. And, you know, you know, I don't per se enjoy the job, but. But, you know, in terms of financial, like, I'm. I'm. I'm happy. So I'm going to use the money later on, you know, to then fund, you know, whatever I.

[Co-host/Financial Expert]

Enjoy. My pushback would just be this simply, this a. You're right, there's a reality. And I tell everyone in their twenties, just be quiet and grind it. Go grind it. Right? But grind it towards the person you want to become. And so there is a big difference between, I just want to be a painter and I don't make any money, and I'm a person who's creative I help create beauty in the world. I help people create homes. I'm an architect. I don't love like, architect isn't my first love, but it allows me to be creative. And when I get home, I get my easel out and I paint. Get what I'm saying? There's a big difference. It, like, work really hard grinding it out. Of course, that's part of it. I'm glad you have that ethos, but become the person you want to become. Because, man, I know know a lot of miserable, lonely, wealthy people, and I wouldn't trade places with them for.

[George Camel]

Anything. I'd reverse it if I were you, man. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show and the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ.