This Family Drama Has a Gravitational Pull

Summary

The Ramsey Show: “This Family Drama Has a Gravitational Pull” (February 24, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey and co-host Jade Washaw tackle an array of real-life money dilemmas ranging from complicated family business drama and inheritance issues to debt reduction strategies and the emotional toll of money troubles. The guiding theme is personal accountability, setting boundaries, and the importance of a debt-free lifestyle—no matter how “normal” poor money habits may seem in society or within one’s family. Listeners call in with questions about family obligations, housing choices, starting businesses, inheritance disputes, cultural expectations, and overcoming past mistakes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dealing with Family Business Debt & Toxic Dynamics

• Caller: Sean from Fargo, ND is stressed about possibly inheriting a debt-laden family business and working part-time with family members whose financial ideologies differ sharply from his.
• Dave’s advice: Don’t feel trapped by sunk costs or family guilt; it’s not worth inheriting stress and financial chaos. Walk away if your values and peace are at stake.
  • Quote: “This sounds like a bear trap. Sounds like it’s gonna tear your freaking leg off…” (Dave, 04:39-05:04)
• Jade: Acknowledges family drama can pull you in like a “tractor beam” and encourages healthy boundaries.
  • Quote: “Drama has a gravitational pull.” (Jade, 08:04)

2. Should We Sacrifice Financial Progress for More Living Space?

• Caller: Nicole from Atlanta asks if now is the time to upgrade from a cramped apartment with three kids despite $52,000 in student debt.
• Jade: Prioritize getting out of debt before upgrading—children can thrive in small spaces, and sacrifices now lead to wealth later.
  • Quote: “If they’re squished and their life is miserable for one year, they’ll be fine.” (Dave, 14:48)
• Dave: Be honest about budgeting and don’t let mediocre progress justify bigger expenses.

3. Family Inheritance & Irresponsible Siblings

• Caller: Mike from Virginia Beach describes how an executor is withholding inheritance from a “financially irresponsible” sibling.
• Dave’s strong response: The executor’s only job is to execute the will—not make value judgments. Not following the will is illegal and will get them “in deep kimchi.” (57:08)

4. Business Startups Without Debt

• Caller: Logan from Indiana wants to borrow money to start a cattle operation.
• Dave: Strongly discourages leveraging debt for a risky and volatile business—advocates for slow and organic growth.
  • Quote: “You cannot borrow your way into profitability. That’s an impossibility.” (104:28)

5. Medicaid & End-of-Life Financial Surprises

• Caller: Tina from Minneapolis shares how her late husband’s Medicaid nursing home bills (unexpected $200k bill) wiped out her savings, and her own too-generous lending to family left her financially vulnerable.
• Dave: Seek legal help, and set firmer boundaries: “You were not in a position to be generous, regardless of what your heart was telling you…” (92:06)

6. Financial Conflicts in Marriage & Addiction

• Caller: Diane from Chicago recently sold a business, is opening a new franchise with proceeds, but reveals her husband’s history of gambling debt.
• Dave and Jade: Stress the importance of protecting assets from both the new business risk and her husband’s habits. Only invest what you can afford to lose, and draw boundaries.
  • “It’s hard to fill up a hole while somebody’s digging out the bottom.” (Dave, 47:59)
  • “I really don’t feel like that’s the issue of the conversation.” (Jade, 47:51)

7. Retirement Planning and Working With Advisors

• Several callers want clarity on handling retirement funds and choosing financial advisors.
• Dave/Jade: Work with local advisors with a “teacher’s heart,” keep decision-making control, and don’t roll everything over uncritically.
  • Quote: “Their job is to teach you and they do what you say to do.” (Dave, 85:21)

8. Navigating Parental and Cultural Financial Expectations

• Caller: Charlie (Korean-American) makes $600k/year, struggles with his father in Korea who drains his own resources assisting extended family and may expect support in old age.
• Dave: Acknowledges the cultural factor but advises clear boundaries—help only to the extent of survival, not legacy obligations.
  • Quote: “You need to plan to not be a burden on your children.” (Dave, 126:15)

9. Inspiring Debt-Free Journeys

• Two Debt-Free Screams:
  • Nathan & Megan (late 20s): Paid off $155k, including mortgage, by buying a fixer-upper, working side hustles, and being content. Now almost millionaires.
    • “Work is underestimated. And working together as a team… helped us in our marriage.” (Megan, 71:16)
  • TJ & Alice (Ramsey employee): $165k (student loans and cars) paid off in 15 months after getting married and moving; credited Ramsey methods and “positive peer pressure.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Family Business Trap:

  • “It feels like you’re being drawn in by a tractor beam.” (Dave, 08:04)
  • “Drama has a gravitational pull.” (Jade, 08:07)

• On Buying a New Car vs Paying Off the House:

  • “I would never buy that car. Pay the house off and then go buy the car.” (Dave, 60:49)

• On Family Expectations:

  • “He lied to you and he stole the money.” – Dave’s strong take on secret day trading spouse (101:59)

• On Generational Poverty:

  • “Your grandpa was not a bad person, but this is how he ended up, and this is how we’re not. From this point forward, the family tree changes.” (Dave, 18:54)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Family business/inheritance drama: 00:43 – 08:20
• Space vs. student debt for young family: 10:26 – 15:34
• Helping a parent with credit card/debt & dementia: 15:34 – 19:06
• Retirement advisor fears / Handling a large cash windfall: 21:23 – 32:34, 44:05 – 52:35
• Small business/debt question—cattle farming: 32:34 – 38:44
• Legal advice on breaking a lease: 38:53 – 44:05
• Ethical executor/inheritance issue: 56:14 – 58:26
• Mortgage vs. car purchase decision: 58:33 – 63:01
• Debt-free scream (Nathan & Megan): 65:26 – 74:38
• Quitting a lucrative but demanding job to be home: 76:43 – 82:27
• Managing a parent’s finances as guardian: 82:36 – 87:03
• Medicaid ‘clawback,’ family betrayal, and debt: 87:08 – 94:07
• Caller with massive inter-family loans and business breakdown: 97:49 – 104:28
• Debt-free scream (TJ & Alice): 107:29 – 115:41
• Supporting parents overseas with cultural expectations: 118:28 – 127:05

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Episode Takeaways

• Family drama isn’t worth lifelong stress or debt. Protect your financial wellbeing even if it means disappointing family.
• Debt is never a pathway to business success or financial peace. Grow organically, even if it’s slower.
• Draw boundaries, even if they’re culturally difficult. Help only within reason, avoid enabling poor financial behaviors across generations.
• Marriage and money: Full honesty is essential. Secret debts and gambling can quickly destroy trust and finances.
• Big wins are possible—at any age. Multiple inspiring stories show that debt freedom and even early wealth are achievable with hard work, teamwork, and contentment.

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For more episodes or to ask a question live, visit www.ramseysolutions.com or call 888.825.5225 weekdays 2–5 p.m. ET.

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Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw is my co host today. Ramsey personality number one best selling author. Our phone number here is 888-25-225. The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Sean is in Fargo, North Dakota. Hey Sean, what's up in your world?

[Caller]

Oh, not much, Dave. Just enjoying my life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I am kind of stressed out right now. In a little. It's kind of in a pickle. Feels like with my family. They are give or take five to $6 million in their family business debt and I am struggling to. Struggling like to cope with like my dad is in failing health and he owns the family business and he is not worried about the major debt that his business has.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Do you work there

[Caller]

part time?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Because I can't. I can't handle full time there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can't handle it. What do you mean? Him? You can't handle him?

[Caller]

No, just the ideology he has and the business feelings.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so why is it bringing you stress? You have a part time job with a business that's in trouble and with a guy whose ideology you don't agree with. Why would that be caused you to be stressful?

[Caller]

I will be most likely be inheriting it with my three brothers, the business which is probably worth around $10 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm.

[Caller]

And so I'm kind of in talks right now to take over the books and all the like the business side of it to pretty much be full time.

[Dave Ramsey]

When are you supposed to do that?

[Caller]

Probably within the next 10 to 15 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so confused. Okay. Yeah. I mean, so you're going to be part time with a guy you disagree with while he runs a business in the ground the next 10 years and you're going to stand there and watch it happen and then they're going to hand it to you and call that a blessing. Why don't you just say I don't want it. Yeah, I don't.

[Caller]

I don't want it because. So like, I mean, it's a good. Oh, I shouldn't say it's a good business, but is it really worth. Because he tries to get me to go full time, like almost weekly, on a weekly basis.

[Jade Washaw]

Well, you tell us the upside because you called in and said all the negative things, so it makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing you described here sounds like something I want to do. Why would you want to do this?

[Caller]

Yeah, so. So I guess I want to ask, should I try to, like, almost intervene and be like, yo, we shouldn't start taking out this debt because they're thinking about adding another.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who's that?

[Caller]

$.5 million debt?

[Dave Ramsey]

My.

[Caller]

My family.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your brothers.

[Caller]

Yeah, my brother. Another million dollars in the debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who are your future, bro? Who are your future partners?

[Caller]

All my brothers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you said it. You say your brothers are as dumb as your dad.

[Jade Washaw]

You said it before yourself, Sean. You said their ideology is completely different than yours. And I think you need to accept that, that that's the case. And you haven't said anything that shows any sign of them changing that ideology. And so if they continue down this path for the next however many years, they're just entrenching themselves further in that. And you're part time.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I operate heavy equipment.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Are you. Are you the baby of the family?

[Caller]

No. No, I'm not. Second? No. Third oldest, middle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Yeah. Well, here. Here's the thing. I don't think that these people are going to change. Do you?

[Caller]

No, I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you either got to walk away from them or you got to enjoy their bull crap.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's the one way to put it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you really do. You're gonna have to decide which one you're gonna be. If it's me, I'm gonna let them have it. I'm gonna walk away. This sounds like a bear trap. Sounds like it's gonna tear your freaking leg off. It's gonna. The next 10 years of your life are gonna be pure freaking misery till the old man dies. And then when he dies. Now you got partners that were trained by him called your brothers. No, thank you. I don't want in this.

[Caller]

For sure. For sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I just. I. There's nothing here that aligns with who you are or who you want to be. This all sounds like misery, and there's not enough money there to fool with. Let them have it. They're going to screw it up. It's going to be worth nothing. Yeah, you don't believe that. You're still. You think your wife thinks you're walking away from a million dollars, and you're not. You're walking away from a million dollars worth of debts. What you're walking away from.

[Jade Washaw]

So 15 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would sit down if you want to have one final conversation with the boys and with the. And say, guys, I don't. I'm uncomfortable with this much debt and I'm not going to join the business as long as you guys continue to run it further up into debt and have no desire to get out of debt because it makes me uncomfortable. I don't agree with this. And I can love you. And if you want to go over there and do something that I don't agree with, we can still be dad and son. We can still be brothers. I can still love you.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I do not want to personally be involved in this. It brings me great stress just thinking about it. And so if you guys want to commit to a path that gets us out of debt and keeps us out of debt as a permanent way of doing business, I would love to join and be part of this thing. I think it's got a future. But I am not going to get on this horse when you have this many bricks in the saddlebags.

[Jade Washaw]

Listen, I agree with that 100%. Clearly. Easier said than done. Sure. Because you're going to have basically your whole family on this side and you're the lone ranger over here. That's not easy. But I agree 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the thing is, you put everybody on not and 100% chance they're not gonna do it.

[Jade Washaw]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you're basically saying, here's why. I'm gonna go on and have my great life over here and I'm gonna love you. I've got family members. Most of my family members don't do the stuff I teach, But I'm not in a deal with them either.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I still love them. Some of them even vote wrong. And I still love them, but that doesn't mean I have to go around and be in business with them. And it doesn't mean I have to sit around and be stressed and I'm, like, somehow guilted into joining something I completely disagree with. No. Walk away from it, son. Worth it. You make a lot of money running your own heavy equipment operation without any debt.

[Jade Washaw]

That's probably the other part of it is there's the allure that maybe there's like, that bit. Maybe just possibly one day it could be good. Then you look back and you're like, man, I should have stayed part of it. Right. He's probably thinking about that little one. One or 2%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's like, I'm going to pet an alligator and hope it doesn't bite. What do they do? They bite you know, it's dumb. You're just asking for it. Don't think they're gonna change. They only know how to do one thing, and that's bite. So don't be shocked when they bite. I mean, it's just your dad, this is what he does. He's a predictable environment. And he didn't hide it. He's not. He just said, that's who I am.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he kind of said, like it or lump it. So I'd lump it. That's what I'd do. I mean, you know, it's just. It's hard to walk away from something like that. Especially when all the family ties. It feels like you're being drawn in by a tractor beam.

[Jade Washaw]

Yes. Gravitational pull.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washaw]

Drama has a gravitational p. I've noticed that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Drama, Drama, family drama. Will suck you in and eat your life. Yeah. And then we connect a little $5 million debt to it just for the fun of it.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, he.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Hi. I'm good. How are you?

[Jade Washaw]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Caller]

So me and my husband live in an apartment and we're trying to decide if we should move to a bigger space because we do have three kids. So two or five year old twins and then a two year old baby girl. So last year we were able to pay off our vehicle, but we have $52,000 worth of student loan debt left and we were going to use. We've been using mostly like our overage, which is about $1,100 that we have a month to put towards our debt. And then we also pretty much use like our tax break or whenever that comes in to throw a lot at it, just in and out. So we're trying to see. We want them to, you know, have a space, to have a yard and, like, just more space is a little bit cramped up with all five of us here. So we were just wondering if we. Or if we should kind of go. Like, our budget would be tighter, but we're trying to see what we should prioritize.

[Jade Washaw]

What are you guys earning between the two of you right now?

[Caller]

Growth would be 103,000.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay. The hard part with this is what you said. If you were to move from this apartment to a house, it's going to close the gap on how much margin you have to throw out this debt, which means there's going to be a longer period of time that you're going to be in debt, which long term, that's going to affect your ability to build wealth. For that reason. I like the idea of home ownership, but I think the first step in that process needs to be eliminating the debt so that you can actually go wholeheartedly into the home buying process and actually do it the right way so that it's a blessing for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not even talking about homeownership. You're talking about renting a nicer place, aren't you?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, we were actually, like, looking to. Our rent is 2200, and so we were wanting to rent, like, thinking about 25 as our max, but that doesn't include, like, gas and utility. I'm sorry. You know. Yeah, so we just don't know if

[Dave Ramsey]

that's going to be leaving us with

[Caller]

400 instead of a thousand.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much. How much debt have you paid off so far?

[Caller]

36,000 was the vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how long did that take?

[Caller]

That took us two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Making $130,000.

[Caller]

103,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. So you guys suck at this so far. Nicole?

[Caller]

We suck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. $18,000. Making 100 grand per year is not enough debt reduction. You guys are. You're still out. You're still going out to eat, you're still going on vacation, you're still spending money, you're still not on a tight budget. And so you made a little progress, but you should have made a lot more progress if you told me you paid off 36,000 in six months. See, then I can take that number and go, oh, wait a minute. You could clear up the rest of this in a year if you suck it up and get it done. But at the rate you're going, it's going to take you 10 years. Yeah, that ain't cool.

[Caller]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

That ain't right.

[Caller]

That's how we feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we gotta, we gotta not get stuck in that. And if you feel like you're never gonna get out, then you just so, well, to heck with it. I'll just take a big old rent and go ahead and enjoy my life now and get the kids a yard. And you know, you give up. You're giving up is what you're doing because you're not making fast enough progress. And so I'm going to put you on the beans and rice plan. If I'm you, I'm going to sit down with my husband and go, look, we did a little bit here and we didn't do a bad thing, but we really weren't, it wasn't like we were spectacular. We kind of got the flu here and we need to really light this thing up instead of putting $1,500 a month on it. We need to take extra jobs, we need to sell stuff. We need to not go out to eat. We need to tight, tight, tight, tight, tighten down this budget, not go the other way. And let's get this thing to 3,000 or $4,000 a month, going at 6,000, 60,000 that's left. And then we can get out in about 14 or 15 months. Then we talk about building an emergency fund and then we talk about buying a house, not renting one. Yeah, but what you're talking about is a five or a six year plan and you won't even make it.

[Jade Washaw]

I agree. If you can have these kids, they're young right now, right? They're five years old, three years old. Now's the time that they can be squished. And they don't know the difference. You know the difference, but they don't know the difference. And I for one would try to stay in that position as long as possible and save as much money as possible so that you can pay off debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, if they're squished and their life is miserable for one year, they'll be fine. That's better than them being not squished and having a mediocre to average life for the rest of their life.

[Jade Washaw]

You want to know what, though? I think back a lot of times on the house that I grew up in, and I think back on the house that my parents grew up in with six kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Nobody told us we were.

[Jade Washaw]

They were tiny.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody told us we were squished. No, we were, but nobody told us we were. There's a thousand square foot brick ranch. Hello. And so, I mean, we went out in the backyard and played. They'd say, go play in the graphic. And they.

[Jade Washaw]

Outside?

[Caller]

Yeah, just outside.

[Jade Washaw]

All the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

You tell your kids to go play in the traffic. You don't tell your kids.

[Jade Washaw]

I don't tell them to play in traffic. I just tell them to.

[Dave Ramsey]

My mother would say that all the time. Don't play in the traffic. Get out of my. Under my feet.

[Jade Washaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what caused me to be the way I am. Dustin is in Coeur d', Alene, Idaho. Hey, Dustin. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi.

So I'll get right into it. My dad incurred about $30,000 in debt. He has no retirement. His only income is Social Security. He now has dementia. And my brother and I are left kind of trying to manage this for him. He's currently being sued on one credit card for 8,000, and he owes 13,000 on another credit card. And I guess my question is, should we try and settle this with them?

[Dave Ramsey]

Does he own anything?

[Caller]

No.

No assets.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, how would he settle it?

[Caller]

Essentially, my brother and I would have to help him out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why? Why would you do that? Just tell him. Tell the credit card company to bite me.

[Jade Washaw]

He has no money. He has nothing to give.

[Dave Ramsey]

They can't get anything. He doesn't have anything, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, he has nothing. It's the only Social Security, and I don't believe they can touch that.

[Dave Ramsey]

They can't touch that. Does he own a home?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he doesn't have any money in his bank account except the Social Security.

[Caller]

Yeah, it would. It would just be for me and my brother to have one last thing to. To have to deal with.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't deal with it at all. I got one less thing. I'm just going to show him the smallest finger on my left hand and say, that's all. You get nothing.

[Jade Washaw]

Are they calling you?

[Caller]

No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just tell them, you know, Tom, jump in a creek, you shouldn't have loaded loan money to a guy who had dementia and no money.

[Caller]

Okay. And should I. Should I offer to have them sign a stipulated judgment to avoid additional attorney fees or.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who wouldn't? Who cares? They're not gonna get any of it. What I would do is call them up and say, if you want to talk to him, call them up and just say this. Say, I want you to make a note in the file, he has advanced dementia and zero assets. We're not going to have any conversations with you. You might as well write this off because you're not getting a dime.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And just real simple, I mean, let's pretend he had passed away, Okay? I just sent him a copy of the death certificate as a courtesy to let them know. And let them know that there's not a. There's no estate. And then. Then after that, I'm not having any more discussions with these people. They're morons.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. None of this can pass to you if you're worried about that.

[Caller]

No, yeah, I'm not worried about that. I mean, it's his debt. I'm not responsible for this.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's just sad. And it's. It's one of this part. It's a sad sub chapter, sub paragraph in this overall sad story that you're dealing with. But what I would do is just say I'm not going to worry about it at all. And if you want to have one conversation, just as a courtesy, you could, but I'm not going to have lengthy conversations. I'm not going to have multiple conversations, and I'm not going to give him a dime. There's no point in it. They shouldn't have loaned him the money.

[Caller]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's just sad. I'm sorry for you having to face that. And, you know, I've run into situations like that in my life. Dustin, how old are you?

[Caller]

44.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I've run into situations like that. And what I do is I say, okay, I gotta help my dad out. In your case, this is what you're saying, I gotta help my dad out. And this is a sad situation. And so what I'm gonna get from this is a lesson to never end up like this.

[Jade Washaw]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm going to do whatever it takes in my life to not end up this way. It's like, you know, I was working for a guy one time, he goes, I might be working in McDonald's at my retirement, but it'll be the one I own in St. Thomas.

[Jade Washaw]

Come on now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm going to learn a lesson from those old people standing there working in McDonald's because they don't have any money. I don't want to be one of them. And so you look at this and you go, he's got no assets. He's got dementia. And the only people positive thing in his life is he's got two sons that love him and are gonna care for him. Other than that, this guy's a pauper. We would use old language, but it's very sad. And so take it as a lesson to go, I'm never. You know. And then you teach your kids. Your grandpa ended up that way. Your grandpa was not a bad person, but this is how he ended up, and this is how we're not. From this point forward, the family tree changes. We're shifting it. I know it's right. So take a lesson from it. At least. At least get that out of it. But no, I wouldn't give those guys any money. Not a dime. I used to be that guy who bragged about running on no sleep. And then I realized being tired all the time is not a flex to show up as the best George Camel I can be. I need real rest. And that's why I got Casper Mattresses in my home. The experts at Casper designed their mattresses to help you sleep deeper, cooler, and more comfortably. And they've been top ranked in both the foam and innerspring mattress categories by Consumer Reports. You and your entire family deserve great sleep. So go to Casper.com Ramsey and use code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses and 10% off everything else. That gives you up to 1200 bucks off the Snowmax mattress, which is the exact one I sleep on. That's Casper.com Ramsey code Ramsey. Neil is in Birmingham. Hi, Neil. How are you?

[TJ]

Hey.

[Caller]

I'm very blessed to be speaking with you and Jay, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. So my wife and I are working on baby step four and six. We are both nervous about a retirement and working with a financial planner advisor. We've never worked with one before, but we both grew up in households with pensions but no nest egg to fall back on. And so we're really nervous about the future. Neither one of us want to retire poor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Well, the what you don't want from an advisor, I'm not sure why you're nervous. I want to hear that in a minute. But what you don't want is from an advisor is arrogance or looking, dropping their glasses on the end of their nose and shaming or telling you what you need to do. These are all warning signs that you run from that you should be nervous about. When you sit down with a good advisor, they should be teaching you and saying, this is how this thing works, and this is why I personally use it. And this is why Dave Ramsey recommends this. And here's how it works. And you say, well, I don't understand. Okay, well, let me try Let me teach you another way. Well, I still don't understand. Okay, then your job is to teach me, and then I will decide. I kind of think of it this way. I think about. Sometimes I go into a nice restaurant and we ask the waiter, you know, what's the best thing in here? You ever done that?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I don't always get what they suggest because sometimes what they suggest I don't like.

[Caller]

Yeah, we.

[Dave Ramsey]

We turn my choices over to them. I just listen to them and then I make my choice.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. So we, we've been doing it on our own for. For several years. We, we basically started putting in 15, I guess about five or six years ago after we finally were able to.

[Jade Washaw]

Good.

[Caller]

And so we, we're trying to. We're playing catch up because we are. We are in our 50s now. And so we're trying to play catch up. And so. But we. Our 401k is not doing.

[Jade Washaw]

Not.

[Caller]

Not kicking out the percentages that we hear on the show that. Like that the S and P did last year and everything. And so when. But we have talked to a couple of financial people. Some of them are out of state. We don't know the ins and outs of working with somebody out of state.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would work with somebody in your neighborhood.

[Caller]

Okay, See, that's what me and my wife thought. But we were basically told by somebody, we were old school that that's the old ways of thinking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Somebody's always got an opinion about your money. Have you noticed that?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Oh, yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So what I did. Listen, if you just go to Ramsey Solutions, you click on smartvestor Pro, you'll find several people in Birmingham that we recommend, and we don't recommend them if they don't have the heart of a teacher and they don't agree with the stuff we teach here on the air. And so that's a baseline. And then you sit down and interview them and say, would I hire this person as my tutor, as my teacher?

[Caller]

Okay. So. So we're kind of nervous when we were with a smartvestor Pro, but should we be willing to turn over our money to them? I don't. I don't know. We don't know how that works. A lot of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, your 401k, you can't turn over and you have to leave it at your workplace. They can look at it for you and say, go back over to work. And that's a choice you could make right there that make you more. That one. That particular fund outperformed the S&P. The three you got didn't. They can help you look at that. But they can't manage by turning it over. All it is, is you're setting the stuff under their management, but they're not going to do anything without you telling them what to do.

[Caller]

I got you.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not like. It's not like. It's not like you sign them onto your checking account. They're not authorized to do trades. They're not authorized to do anything unless you tell them to do it.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. They see that's something we didn't know. We didn't know. When we do it, do we just have to turn everything over to them?

[Dave Ramsey]

I would put everything on the table and let them look at the whole picture.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I'm not going to lose control of it. I don't lose control of anything. See, when I hire a lawyer, some lawyers get confused. They think they get to tell you what to do, and I'm like, no, you work for me. You work for me. You tell. You tell me what the situation is, and then I will decide based on the information. You teach me about this particular law, about this particular situation, what I am going to do, and then I'm going to tell you what to do.

[Jade Washaw]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't. You just don't want. You want to keep in control as to who's in charge here. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Oh, yes, sir. I completely understand. We're. We're in our. Like I said, I'm 52, so we're going down the track here, getting closer

[Dave Ramsey]

to, well, I probably can make my money work harder with someone who plays with money all day long, teaching me.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's all it is.

[Caller]

And that's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's all it is.

[Caller]

Well, that's what. Yes, sir. That's what we will do then. That's where just. We don't want to retire poor.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not.

[Caller]

That's the biggest thing we're nervous about.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not. You're not gonna retire poor. You're gonna retire rich. I can tell just by talking to you because you're freaking paying attention. People that retire poor don't bother to look at it,

[Caller]

unfortunately. I think we look at it every day.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, see, yeah, you're getting all twisted up, man. Get you a plan, ride the plan, and have a little peace in your finances. But, yeah, that's. It does. It takes. I think not knowing is what kills you 100%.

[Jade Washaw]

The fact that I can already tell that guy's quite frugal just by listening.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jade Washaw]

They're doing the right thing and it's okay. Everybody has their moment at different times in life where they wake up and they go, oh, crap, I gotta get my money together. And for some of us, it's a little later down the line. But once to your point, once you start paying attention, there is time to make things right. Especially if you're doing the Ramsey plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Chloe's in Orlando. Hi, Chloe, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm great. Hi, Dave and Jade. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Caller]

All right, so my fiance and I are getting married at the end of this year in October.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great.

[Caller]

He has quite a bit of money saved, but we also have debt and we're also trying to save her wedding. So we kind of need some help figuring out how to go about this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Caller]

How much do you have saved in total liquid saved? We have 123,000. Who's we?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute. How much does he have? How much do you have?

[Caller]

He has. Okay, let me start with me. I have only about 2,000. Him and I together created a savings account that is about 22,000. And he has the rest, which would probably be that hundred thousand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the 22,000, I'm guessing, is what I hope you're saving for the wedding.

[Caller]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what are you planning to spend on the wedding?

[Caller]

45,000.

[Jade Washaw]

Are there any family members helping out?

[Caller]

Yes, we have. My parents are giving us 10,000. And then he has an uncle that has given him 10,000 as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's 42. So that's 42. So you're there. And what is your. What is your household? What is your income? And what is his income?

[Caller]

His income is a take home, around 96, a little bit more with bonuses, and then mine's. I just put myself on salary. I do have my own business, but on salary I take home.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what your salary is. What's your income? What is the business profit going to be this year?

[Caller]

Oh, probably 80,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So you got a $200,000 income between you. If you were to be married Today, you have 22,000 plus you have pledges to get you up to 45,000 for your wedding budget. So the wedding budget's done. Can we agree on that?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. And then how much debt do you have? And how much debt does he have

[Caller]

without the home? I have around 14,000 in credit card and my car. And he has 14.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is the credit card and car.

[Caller]

I owe about 4,200 on my car. And then I have 8,000 in credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, okay. All right. All right.

[Caller]

And then his truck is about 35,000, and he has a credit card of 34,100. Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, cool. Very easy then. You do not need to combine finances until after the honeymoon.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he should pay off his truck and his credit card today out of his hundred.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you need to start working to pay off your 13 as fast as possible. And the wedding is already done.

[Caller]

Okay. Now my question is he's gonna be worried about paying his truck off because that dwindles down his savings account.

[Jade Washaw]

You guys are gonna have to really quickly have a talk about how you view debt and how you're going to manage debt and finances in your marriage going forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

He doesn't really have 100,000. He already spent 34 of it. He just hadn't admitt.

[Jade Washaw]

Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used. Unless you got a million dollars, we don't buy new cars. And if you're going to buy used, Number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from south Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no brainer and they've been absolutely great.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're excited to recognize Christian Brothers as the official auto repair partner of the Ramsay show. Christian Brothers keeps things simple, honest and transparent. Every repair is backed by their nationwide nice difference warranty. Three years or 36,000 miles, whichever helps you more.

[Jade Washaw]

Listen, Dave, I'm first to admit I'm not into cars like you are. But the thing about Christian Brothers is I feel just as confident going in there. They're not trying to to upsell me. I feel 100% confident that I'm going to get the service that I need.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, if you want your car to last and stay on track with the baby steps, trust Christian brothers. Go to cbac.comramsey to find your local shop, schedule, service and get an exclusive Ramsey discount. 10% off your visit up to $250.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, that's cbac.comramseestore for detail.

[Dave Ramsey]

Logan's in Indiana. Hey, Logan, what's up? Wait a minute. Let me Try again. Hey, Logan, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, sir.

[Megan]

How are we doing?

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can I help?

[Caller]

Well, I'm trying to get some advice on my wife and I going into debt to start a cattle operation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How long you been listening to the show, Logan?

[Caller]

About six months or so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you know that about 95% of what we talk about is telling people to not go in debt and. And how to get out of debt, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, it is. I feel like I've heard a little bit of information with businesses that sometimes like buying a business or something that can depend on the profit that it brings and how quickly it can be paid off. So I wanted to see if that would work in this case.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that would be like buying it from an owner. And the owner gets the. The former owner gets the profit until not borrowing $150,000 to buy cows from the bank. That's different. So I don't borrow money, Logan. And I've done that for 40 years. And I run a business and I've grown the business with the profits in the business without borrowing money to do it. And because the simple fact is this business has risk. When you borrow money to start a business or run a business, you increase the risk a hundredfold. A lot more chance that you're going to go bankrupt. And so what's your household income, sir?

[Caller]

About 120 to 130,000, depending on overtime.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. So if you took out $150,000 loan, how fast could you pay it back?

[Caller]

Running the numbers that we ran, given the market now, you know, and obviously as long as it doesn't just completely tank out within about two years to three at the most, by your third, your third round of calves, everything should be completely paid off. And it would be profit after that, minus operational costs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So what would be wrong with starting a little bit smaller and taking four years and making the thing cash flow its way to the exact same position by. By. By a third of what you're talking about buying with cash.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And make that third by the next third and buy the next third. You don't need any money out of this cattle operation. You could pour every single dollar of profit into growing it. Agreed.

[Caller]

Correct. Yeah, that would be the plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you have a good income at home already. And so I think it's what we call in business organically growing the business with your cash, your own cash. And that's what we've done here, although we weren't able to do it as fast as you're going to be able to do it. And that's assuming cattle prices don't do what they have done in the past, which is they're all over the freaking place. As you know. I'm sure you've looked at the trend lines on that. It's scary. So there's times the market has tanked and it's an agricultural product and so it's, it's a lot more unpredictable than some other types of businesses. So you've got to be very, very careful. But if I were in your shoes, I would get, I would scratch the itch, but I would save up 50, $75,000 in cash by living on nothing. And I'd dump every bit there and then I'd take every dime a profit and use it to grow the business. And I think you'll be there one year later than you would have been there if you borrowed the money and everything went perfect. Which by the way, nothing ever goes perfect.

[Caller]

That, that is, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean you get, the cows get sick, there's all kinds of problems. There's, you know, the Brazilians decide they're going to come in and, you know, upset the beef market. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how the list works, but there's always something, right?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, I would rather you do that and be tired and stretched on your cash and then no one's going to take it away from you. You're not going to lose everything because you rolled the dice on this particular horse race. I just crossed metaphors.

[Jade Washaw]

You did. That's all right,

[Dave Ramsey]

that.

[Caller]

No, that makes sense. A follow up to that would be, is if you were to cash flow this. What's your opinion on, you know, like leasing pasture and stuff? Do you look at that as debt or is that looked at a little bit different?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's just over. That's just like lease. That's like leasing a building to run your business in instead, instead of buying the building. That's. There's no problem. I would rent the pasture for sure.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because now we've got two businesses. If you, if you buy the pasture, you got two businesses. You got the real estate business and the farming business. Yeah, I mean it's like, it's like me, I've got this building here that's 650,000 square feet. Like, you know, $600 million property. Right. So I've got this piece of real estate. I'm in the real estate business and I've got a Business that's inside the real estate. But I've got two things going on here, very substantial things. Ramsey. And a big old piece of real estate. Big campus here, right? I mean, I'm in the office building business, period, no matter how you cut it. And you can mix those two together and act like, well, they're all one thing. No, they're really not. I've got a big old office building. I could have leased it. There's six of them right down the road down here. I could have leased another one and not put, you know, not put half a billion dollars into this thing. Right. So that's the thing. So just no need to get in the real estate business. I just lease it. If you're going to start a restaurant, for God's sakes, don't buy the building. Oh, gosh, please, no, just rent the building and get started. You know, you start a daycare, rent the building and just don't. Don't get in the real estate business until you've been in business a long time and you've got a predictable environment. But you don't have that there until then. So. Wow, Cool. I think we won that one.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, I think. I think he's going to take your advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think he's going to do it.

[Jade Washaw]

I believe in him.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it. I like Logan. All right. That's kind of nice. I'm. I like getting one occasionally. Leona's in Cincinnati. Hi, Leona. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I have a quick question. So my husband and I, we have a one year old and we recently moved. Well, not recently. Last year we had switched from our apartment because of noisy neighbors and went to a town home. The town home. When we moved in there, it was not great. And we sent several emails to the leasing office about the issues that we were having and, you know, mold and spiders everywhere and centipedes and all these things happening in there. We told them that we are not happy with the townhome and they said they'll fix things. Months went by. They weren't fixing anything, but we decided to just break our lease because I have legal shield through my job, and I reached out to an attorney through there and they said, well, they failed to provide suitable living conditions. I have pictures of everything and you don't owe anything, so you can break your lease and you'll be fine. Oh, boy.

[Jade Washaw]

That was not good advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. Yeah. You got what you paid for with that lawyer.

[Jade Washaw]

Did you send them? Did you send. I mean, did you get any. Did you send them anything in writing? Did you do any. Did you do your due diligence other than just making a phone call?

[Caller]

Oh, no. So we definitely sent pictures. You mean to the leasing office, Legal sheets, Both.

[Jade Washaw]

Did you send them? Did you let them know that you were seeking legal. Legal counsel on behalf? Like, did you go through the due diligence of making sure that they understand what's going on?

[Caller]

I. Yeah. So I called the leasing office. My husband went up there because they weren't responding to my emails. My husband went up there. Up there. He talked to them. They said, okay, we'll take care of things. A couple months went by. Nothing was happening. The most they did was change the tray in the dishwasher.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so stop. Just stop. I mean, it's. You just moved out when you got mad because you called Legal Shield and they said you could.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, we weren't. We weren't planning to break our lease because we did that before to move to where we are now, and that was not fun. So we said, we're not going to break the lease unless we get some kind of advice that we can. So after we called the head office, the property management company or whoever, we talked to the district manager. They said, okay, definitely send us emails and everything, all the pictures that you've been reaching out to them about and everything did that. No response. Called again, Left a voice message, not getting any response. So the Legal Shield attorney said they sent them a letter to the leasing office and the property management company and saying that they failed to provide whatever suitable living conditions for us and our child. So we don't owe them anything. So because of that, we decided to just break our lease because they weren't fixing anything. We asked them multiple times, are you going to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, then this is on Legal Shield. Legal Shield needs to defend you for free. You're gonna. You're gonna get. You're gonna get sued. I can promise you. I promise you 100. This landlord's coming after you. You don't have the option of just walking away because I got some bugs. Even if you send them pictures and even if they don't answer you, even if they're jerks, even if they have horrible service. It's not how it works. I mean, so now Legalshield's bit this off. They need to pick it up and close the deal, and they're not going to be able to. This is going to be horrible for. If collectors are blowing up your phone every day and you're living in constant fear of the next call. You're not living, you're surviving. You don't need more noise or more stress. You need help you can trust. That's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group. Guardian isn't a call center reading from a script. They're real attorneys who can step into the courtroom and fight back when creditors try to sue you. Debt settlement isn't glamorous. It's not the preferred path. I'd still rather see you pay it off the old fashioned way. But if you're overwhelmed, out of options and trying to avoid bankruptcy, Guardian can help quiet the chaos and give you a real way forward. With no upfront fees, their attorneys have helped more than 55,000 people settle over $600 million in debt. And when the noise stops, you can breathe again. To learn more, go to guardianlit.com Ramsey that's guardianlit.com Ramsey Attorney Advertising Results may vary and no specific outcome is guarantee. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one best selling author is My co host. Diane is in Chicago. Hey Diane, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, same here. Well, I thank you for taking my call. I currently have quite a bit of money in the bank. I feel and I am thinking about my retirement and I'd like to know how best I should invest it in order to make it last through retirement.

[Jade Washaw]

How much is it?

[Caller]

I have 600,000 in the bank.

[Jade Washaw]

Wow.

[Caller]

And debt free. I have just 250,000 in retirement which I don't know what to do with because it's been with the payroll service since we had owned our own business and it's just been sitting there. I don't know what to do with it. I know nothing about it. I wasn't actively involved in our business. I stayed home and took care of our kids, raised them and decided to go into my own franchise. And so I know that I will be using some of that money for the franchise, but I don't know that just sitting in a bank is the best place for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How old are you?

[Caller]

57.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you said you were not involved in the business and now you're opening a franchise with the business money?

[Caller]

Yes. Huh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So your husband was running the business?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where is he?

[Caller]

He's. He's at home. He is supporting me on my business. He's Hoping at some point he'll be able to branch out and do something on his own. But everything's been in my name. The bank accounts, the houses, the business. We sold the business last year, and then

[Dave Ramsey]

that. Where the 600 grand came from?

[Caller]

Yeah, we sold it for 1.2 million. But we were given a large lump sum, and we paid off some unexpected unknown debts.

[Jade Washaw]

Like. Okay, unknown. You're being cryptic.

[Caller]

I didn't. I didn't know about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna have to tell. You're gonna tell us what's going on because you're not just not making sense.

[Caller]

My. My husband has a gambling debt. Oh, I don't know what.

[Jade Washaw]

He.

[Caller]

He gets a set amount every month that comes in that he collects, and he uses that for extracurricular activities. I have no idea what he uses as well.

[Jade Washaw]

How much? You don't know how much he's.

[Caller]

Oh, no, I know how much he gets. He gets $3,600 a month, and that's his play money. I get $700,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's basically got a gambling problem that ran you guys deeply in debt, and that's why everything's in your name.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. That makes sense.

[Jade Washaw]

So who's supplying the $3,600 a month for him to continue gambling?

[Caller]

We have $2,500 coming in from a rental that. That person bought the business, and he has the option to buy by the end of the year for $350,000 if he exercises that right. And then he also gets Social Security, $1,100 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so at this point, you're okay with losing $40,000 a year with your husband?

[Caller]

No, I'm not, but I have no control over that.

[Jade Washaw]

What's the. What's the plan moving forward? Does he know that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Does he know that you apparently have a lot of control. You got everything in your name, right?

[Caller]

Everything's in my name. He knows that I'm opening up this franchise, which will be approximately $125,000, to open the franchise. And my phone.

[Jade Washaw]

He.

[Caller]

He's just kind of like, leaving. Letting me leave the money in the bank, but I feel like it's not getting the best, so I'm looking for ways that I can invest it.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, I mean, we could tell you to get with the Smartvestor Pro and invest that money, but I really don't feel like that's the issue of the conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there's a lot. There's so much going. Here's the problem. It's hard to Fill up a hole while somebody's digging out the bottom. Right, and that's kind of what we're hearing here. But you feel like you've got him, his gambling addiction under control. And I question that because I've seen so many. Well, I mean, and so as long as you keep this stuff in your name, I guess you have the option of divorce at some point. If he runs up, you know, let's say he runs up a million dollar gambling debt and you don't want to pay it with the money that's in your name, then you've only got one option at that point. So anyway, that's what you're facing. So yeah, I would take the 600,000 and I'd take the 250,000 and I would sit down with a smartvestor pro and begin to invest it in good mutual funds. If it averages 10% or more, it will double every seven years. So you basically got a million dollars in seven years. At 64 years old you'd have $2 million. At seven more years, at 71 years old, you'd have $4 million. So you're going to be fine if you do that and you don't piss it away with this franchise, if this franchise doesn't go belly up on you. And so, and it sounds like you've never run a business before. He ran the business before and now you're buying a franchise. So that's a little concerning.

[Jade Washaw]

Is the franchise in the same like field of expertise or is it something totally different?

[Caller]

No, it's something that I'm passionate about. Something that is for me, not for him. I don't expect his involvement in it, but I'm very confident and very passionate about this and I'm expecting for it to be very successful. And I have a family that is willing to stand behind me and support me. So that's not even a question whether or not that's going to be successful. I'm confident that it will be.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got to tell you that that's not true in the small business world. So there is risk that you're not perceiving, apparently. So yeah, you're going to buy it and you're going to do it, but I want to insulate you from you and this bad decision if it's a bad decision. And I want to insulate you from him and his continuous bad decisions with 600 or more thousand dollars going over in a regular low risk investment in comparison to gambling and in comparison to franchise purchasing. And so let's put some money over there. So if these other two things go sideways and this plan doesn't work, then you know you've at least got that money working for you. So, yeah, you need to sit down and do that. And you need to put a real limit on the amount of dollars you're going to pour into the franchise before it starts giving you money back instead of you putting money into it.

[Nathan]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

And because if you don't, with the level of unrealistic optimism that you're coming at this with and you're positive how positive you are about it, then you're going to end up going 300 grand in the hole on this thing. And if you won't put 125 in it and you believe in it, go do it. Go live your dream. I ain't got a problem with that. What I've got a problem with is these absolute statements. And I've been in business my whole life, and there is no absolute 100% people are behind me. I feel positive. It's an area I'm passionate about. None of that may matter. You may still lose all that money. So don't go into this 300 grand with all your positivity. If you want to put 125 in it, do it. And then I'd put the rest of it over with a smartvestor pro and some good mutual funds and. And to where it's protected from this business risk and the gambling risk and separate these things.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, I'm gonna call it like I heard it. It almost sounded like this business for you was some sort of retaliatory thing against him, to kind of prove that you're doing your thing over here. And my thing, I would just say draw a line in the sand and set some boundaries about how long you're gonna endure this and to what point before you go and do the things that you need to do and make that separation so that he can get the help that he needs. Because allowing this to persist doesn't feel like the answer. It feels like it's breeding resentment from you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, for sure. We kind of should.

[Jade Washaw]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Washaw]

today's question comes from Steve in West Virginia. He says, I'm 66 years old and have been retired for five years. I have 500,000 in retirement funds, but I have two debts, 40,000 in credit card debt and 150,000 on my mortgage. I have Social Security and pension income of 6,000 per month. Should I pay off my debt to reduce my withdrawal each month from my 401k? I wish I had a little bit more information, but off the top I would say yes because to have your mortgage paid for, that's money that you're not going to have to take a draw on. And my guess, I don't know what your expenses are every month, but my guess is you probably are living okay on the $6,000 per month. If you don't have a single debt

[Dave Ramsey]

in the world and it's just you. Yeah, make sure you cut up a stupid credit card on a budget so you don't spend more than you make

[Jade Washaw]

again, yeah, that's really what you need to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because credit card debt is not the problem. It's the symptom of you overspending.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. And if it's. It's. If it's old debt and you're like, I am. I'm not on that lifestyle anymore. I just still have it laying around. Absolutely. Paid off. But if it's current debt, then Dave is absolutely right about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mike's in Virginia Beach. Hey, Mike. How are you?

[Caller]

Good.

How you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

My wife and her siblings inherited some money from their dad when he passed away several years back. And one of the siblings is the executor, and they said they're not gonna tell one of the other siblings about it because they don't feel that they're financially responsible and they're just gonna hold their money back from them. Oh, I say that's not. That ain't their call.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're exactly right.

[Caller]

Okay, well, I'm smarter than I look.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sometimes the executor, the literal. The reason they're called an executor is there to execute their. Execute the what? The will said. It didn't. It didn't say you're a trust officer and you get to decide what's best. It said, you execute what the will says. That's your only option. Even if you don't like it, even if you don't agree with it.

[Caller]

It.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have one option when you're the executor, and that's to execute what the will says. Otherwise, the people on the other side of it are going to sue your butt and they're going to win because you violated your fiduciary responsibility.

[Jade Washaw]

What's your wife think?

[Caller]

She agrees with me.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys got your part, right?

[TJ]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I would tell the executor that they're being stupid and they're going to get. Get sued.

[Caller]

Well, I kind of did that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, then that you've done your job and leave it alone. It's not your problem anymore.

[Jade Washaw]

How much is it?

[Caller]

Yeah, you know, I think like eight or ten thousand dollars each.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh. It's not enough to mess with. But here's the thing. The person finds out that they were not given the money they're supposed to be given, the person that is the executor is in deep kimchi legally.

[Caller]

Well, that's. That's what I've kind of figured.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. For sure. For sure. But there's nothing you can do about it. I mean, it's just. These are people doing Whatever they want to do. And that's what people do all the time. That's the problem when you pick the executor of your will, folks. You need to pick someone who's going to have the integrity to execute your will.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it? You will to happen.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what that means.

[Jade Washaw]

They need to be Switzerland.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

Did you say deep kimchi?

[Dave Ramsey]

I just did.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay, just checking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just make sure things come up in the Rolodex. Nora is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Nora. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave and Jade. Excited to talk to you today. I have an exciting question for you. I want to know, should we buy a new car with cash or pay off our house?

[Jade Washaw]

Ooh, my favorite type of question. Tell us more.

[Caller]

Okay, so we are in baby steps 4, 5, and 6. We've been on the Ramsey plan for a solid, like, seven years. We have $60,000 saved for the vehicle in a high yield savings account. But then when we are doing our annual budget meeting, we were also looking at our brokerage account, which is sitting at $35,000. Our mortgage is approximately $83,000 left. Okay, so if we liquidate that brokerage account, we could pay off the home

[Dave Ramsey]

and be done and still have an emergency fund.

[Caller]

Yeah, we do have $10,000 set aside for an emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

Beyond the amount that's a bit small.

[Jade Washaw]

Is. Yeah. Is that what it would be if the house were gone?

[Caller]

Yeah. Well, we use, like, the brokerage account as, like a backup emergency.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you don't have that anymore. In this scenario, we have.

[Caller]

We have $10,000 in our bank account.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but if you use the brokerage account and you use the 60,000 from the car and you pay off the house, you're down to $10,000, which isn't much.

[Caller]

Well, we want to spend approximately 50,000 on a car.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he's saying.

[Jade Washaw]

He's saying if you pay the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Say if you pay the house off, you got nothing but ten grand left. Right.

[Caller]

We also. Well, we also have a $10,000 savings account. That is just the site emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll say you have $20,000.

[Caller]

So we would have. Yeah, we would have 20 if the

[Dave Ramsey]

house is paid off. Okay, that's what I didn't understand. Are you.

[Megan]

Are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is your net worth over a million dollars?

[Caller]

It is, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And this is a brand new car,

[Jade Washaw]

new to us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's not a brand new car.

[Caller]

It might be a year old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's not a brand new car. It either is or it is.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, now, so wow.

[Jade Washaw]

I mean, how long would it take you? You could do either. I don't think there's a wrong answer here. How long would it take you if you were to pay off the house? How quickly could you save back up 60,000 and buy the car you want?

[Caller]

We think by probably August.

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, crud, man. I gotta be honest, there's not a wrong answer. I probably pay the house off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there is a wrong answer. Don't buy the car. Pay the house off and then go buy the car.

[Jade Washaw]

You would.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would never buy that car.

[Jade Washaw]

I mean, I wouldn't buy the car, I would pay the house off. But I'm just saying. Do you think she'd be dead wrong?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. In eight months you can go get the car anyway.

[Jade Washaw]

That's what I said.

[Dave Ramsey]

So get the house paid off. What are your priorities here? Your priorities are get the house paid off, not buy a stupid car. Stupid cars you can get. I got a stupid car today, I don't mind getting a stupid car. Cars are fine, but they go down in value. How do they go up in value?

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, but do you think that lightning would strike her down had she done the other way?

[Dave Ramsey]

Lightning doesn't strike you down on anything on this show hardly. But no, I'm definitely paying the house off 100% today. I'd pay it off today and then I'd save like crazy and go buy the car that you want.

[Jade Washaw]

And you might even get a nicer

[Dave Ramsey]

car parking it in the driveway of a paid for house. Hello. No question that, that's the order things ought to go. Down, down. Definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely. So here's the thing, and I'm a car guy. I, you know, I, I've got own a bunch of different vehicles here and there and they all go down in value.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you're, you know, you can't put appreciating assets in the same sentence with the largest depreciating asset that we buy. Even if you've got a high net worth.

[Jade Washaw]

But what sent you over the edge was the fact that they owed so little on the mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's simple.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean if she owe 500,000 on the mortgage, then we could have a

[Jade Washaw]

different discussion or even 100. Well, see, my tipping point probably would have been like 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, I just, the point is that this is very doable very quickly and so it doesn't matter. So do it the right way.

[Jade Washaw]

Yes, I'm with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let your actions reflect that you've Got an understanding of how these assets work.

[Jade Washaw]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because five years from today, that $50,000 car is worth 15.

[Jade Washaw]

Yes. And that's going to be painful. Hopefully you keep it for a very long time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Five years from today, that house will have doubled twice.

[Jade Washaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, so, I mean, there's no question where I'm going with this. And it doesn't mean you never buy a car. I bought one today. Or literally.

[Jade Washaw]

Clearly, you bought a car today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

What'd you get?

[Dave Ramsey]

I got the new Bronco Raptor.

[Jade Washaw]

Look at you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I just wanted one. But I'm not. I'm not mad about cars. That's not the point. That's not the point. The point is they go down in value and they need to be a minor part of your overall life.

[Caller]

Sam,

[Dave Ramsey]

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest. Early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got netsuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business. For real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time, and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsey. That's netsuite.com Ramsey. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Nathan and Megan are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hi, Dave.

[Nathan]

Doing well. Great to be here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to have you. Where do y' all live?

[Nathan]

We live in Woodstock, Georgia.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh yeah, just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville.

[Megan]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to have you guys. And how much debt have you paid off?

[Nathan]

We paid off $155,000 in just under five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you and your range of income during that time.

[Nathan]

Starting income was 100,000 and ending income was 145,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. What do y' all do for a living?

[Megan]

So I work in technology. I manage a whole tech team in the convenience industry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah?

[Jade Washaw]

Yep.

[Nathan]

And I worked part time in a credit department at a staffing company during that time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool.

[Jade Washaw]

What kind of debt was it?

[Nathan]

It was our mortgage, actually.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think so. Looking at weird people.

[Nathan]

I know.

[Megan]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. How much is this house worth?

[Megan]

About 450 now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you guys.

[Jade Washaw]

Awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you've been putting money in your retirement all along. So how much is in that?

[Megan]

About 300.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, very good. Almost millionaires now.

[Megan]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look at you guys.

[Jade Washaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, well, how old are you two?

[Nathan]

I'm 28.

[Megan]

And I'm 29.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got started this in your early 20s?

[Nathan]

Yes. Our goal was to get it paid off before Nathan turned 30 in March.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you did it.

[Nathan]

Wow. Paid it off on Christmas Day, 2025.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Jade Washaw]

That's awes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tell us the story. How do you guys be smart enough to do this at 22 years old?

[Nathan]

Well, honestly, he listened to you since

[Megan]

he was 12 years old. I grew up and we didn't have TV, so as a teenager, I couldn't go to bed early. So I'd turn on my clock radio today, Ramsey, and I didn't quite get everything at the time of what you were saying, but I started picking it up and then, I mean, it really just comes from my parents instilling, hey, if you're going to accomplish anything, you got to work for it. So then following your steps along the way. We did Financial Peace University right after we were married and just, I mean, worked as a team together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Very cool.

[Nathan]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your mom and dad were doing this stuff and then you're hearing the stuff on talk radio back in the day.

[Megan]

Yes. Yeah. And they were. It was really just instilling, if you want anything in life, you have to work for it. So that was what my parents gave me and then you gave me the tools to, you know, us. The tools to work together and accomplish this.

[Nathan]

We also bought a fixer upper that needed a lot of equity or a lot of sweat equity.

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, my gosh. I see the picture.

[Nathan]

So that's what it used to look like. And we worked really hard on it. And it's in Woodstock, which is where we wanted to grow up. Wanted the kids to grow up and

[Dave Ramsey]

doesn't even look like the same.

[Nathan]

Yeah. So that's where we live.

[Megan]

Yeah, that was the dream. Just putting. Putting our Hard work into it and not just expecting things to come to us and working for what we wanted.

[Dave Ramsey]

Looks like it started with a chainsaw.

[Megan]

Yeah, that's right.

[Jade Washaw]

It did.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Nathan]

And lots of poison ivy.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

So the moment you it bought, you knew you were gonna pay it off fast. Like you already.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, that was the whole idea.

[Nathan]

Yes, definitely. We wanted to attack it, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, Megan, I mean, when you're dating a guy that at 12 years old is listening to a financial show on talk radio before he goes to bed, you might be dating a nerd.

[Nathan]

I know. I learned this a lot from him. And then he got me onto you too. And I truly, he is a little bit of a nerd.

[Dave Ramsey]

It sounds like he was an attractive nerd.

[Jade Washaw]

Nerd.

[Nathan]

He was tall, dark, and handsome. I was very. You know, it didn't take much financial.

[Jade Washaw]

Yes.

[Nathan]

So. And I truly. I mean, once I learned it too, once we did financial peace, I was all in as well. We were just trying to do it together. And I think that's one of the keys too, is just doing it together.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys throw those pictures up again on YouTube in case someone is 23 years old and thinks it's impossible to buy a house. You can buy that house. Looks like a jungle. Put it back up there. It's like a dadgum jungle. Yeah, I mean, that's the. Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

And you said it's worth 400 now.

[Megan]

450 now in the neighborhood.

[Dave Ramsey]

Woodstock's sweet. It's a great area.

[Megan]

Dave always says it's important to dream together. So I was actually. Took us two years to convince this lady it was vacant to sell us the home. And we would drive by and she would get annoyed at me. I'd go, that's our home. See, our home. And we. We didn't even have it under contract yet, but we dream and we'd see. And, you know, following the principles of going, hey, we want. We wanted a 15 year mortgage, not more than 20% of our day down pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How did you get her to sell it?

[Megan]

Well, honestly, I was her friend for two years. She didn't know anyone else. And I honestly didn't think we were gonna get it most of the time. But I said, I just told her, if whenever she wants to sell, she'll think of us first. And one day, after two years, she said, all right, I'm ready to sell.

[Nathan]

So.

[Jade Washaw]

Wow.

[Nathan]

We wrote her letters, drove to her house at a different residence.

[Dave Ramsey]

She wasn't. It was vacant.

[Nathan]

Yeah, it was vacant. It looked like in a different place. And we drove there and got her phone number, and they talked on the phone every month until she decided to say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Until she relented.

[Nathan]

We're ready.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love this guy. This is incredible.

[Jade Washaw]

And of course, you cash flowed all the. All the upgrades you did inside and the outside.

[Megan]

We went down to the studs and it was, you know, I had some family help, but it was all us just working through it. We did gas, electrical, plumbing, we did the septic system, and we did everything.

[Jade Washaw]

So you pay. I just need America to hear this.

[Dave Ramsey]

They cash flowed all of that and paid off the $155,000.

[Megan]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you 26 year olds that are whining, I can't buy a house right now. Oh, kiss my butt. These guys right here hold their beer. Look at this. It's unbelievable.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, Tell them what they need to know, because there's a lot of naysayers out there. Tell them what they need to know.

[Megan]

Absolutely, Dave. You preach it. I actually saw the bumper sticker over there, and I love it. And it was pray like everything depends on God and work, like everything depends on. On you. And that was us going into this. I tell everyone that'll listen, I'm annoying, I'll get passionate about it, but I'm. But you're the problem. You're the solution. Work hard. There is. I can't stand anyone that says anything different, but there's more opportunity in America than there has ever been in any

[Dave Ramsey]

country for all of history.

[Megan]

So work for it. It's easy to look at all the obstacles and say, hey, I can't do this, but roll up your sleeves and get to work. Work is underestimated. And working together as a team, this has just helped us in our marriage and. And, you know, now we have a home for our kids and we're just gonna continue building the dream life.

[Jade Washaw]

Drop. You can pull that headset off and slam it on the floor.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, don't, don't.

[Caller]

Don't do that.

[Megan]

It looks expensive.

[Nathan]

Yes, I say too, like, just, you know, eat at home and practical things like being content with what you have, not comparing yourself to the people around you, and also just. Just work in side hustles. We both worked during this whole process. I was stay at home mom, but also trying to help provide some income during that time. And Nathan worked really hard at his job just to work his way up, but also worked side hustles. So do the things that are required to get to that point, but also just enjoy your life and be content with what you have already?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, you're not even 30 years old. You have a paid for half a million dollar house you've got. You're well on your way to being millionaires within the next probably 36 months or so. The markets are moving and everything's happening. You guys are in really, really good shape. Congratulations. I'm very proud of you. I know your parents are proud of you.

[Nathan]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your children, your heroes. You have changed your family tree. So your secret is work at it and stick together.

[Megan]

Yeah. And just don't take no for an answer. You know, if someone tells you no, just figure another way to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's always another way. Another way to get it done.

[Jade Washaw]

Wow, that's amazing. I have one more question. When you went to buy this house, how did you set your expectations? Because a lot of people would have seen that before you renovated it and said, that's a shack. I'm not gonna spend my money on that. How did you know to do that?

[Megan]

Well, great question. I mean, my whole life it's been, what do people. We're so wealthy as a country, people throw away great things that we can work hard and make beautiful. So going into it, it was horrible looking on the inside, but we were just looking and we had talked about it. What are the bones? What can't we change? Let's make sure that's good. We can work hard on everything else and change that.

[Nathan]

Change some paint colors, change the flooring. Just kind of see past that stuff on the outside and just look at the beauty on the inside. And there were no mold issues, no flooring foundation issues. We were very blessed.

[Jade Washaw]

God.

[Nathan]

God blessed us with this home, too. Like, we were put in all the right situations where we were like, this is not just coincidental.

[Jade Washaw]

So good, guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done. All right, bring the kiddos up. Let's get their names and ages.

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, boy, are they cute.

[Dave Ramsey]

They are cute. Cute.

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, there's more of them than I thought. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

They just keep coming.

[Jade Washaw]

Yes.

[Nathan]

We paid it off when he was 10 days old.

[Jade Washaw]

What a guy. Yes.

[Nathan]

Baby James.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's his name?

[Nathan]

This is James. She's two months now.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the girls?

[Nathan]

This is Emmy. She's five. And then Lily is two.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Yes, you guys are. Your parents are heroes. You don't even know it yet. You're too young. But someday you'll know. They're the ones that change the family tree. Way to go. All right, Nathan and Megan, count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. 155,000 paid off in five years, making 140 almost. Baby steps. Millionaires all already at 30 years old. Let's hear it.

[Caller]

Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're Jeffrey. Wow.

[Jade Washaw]

I love it. I love it. Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

These kids are cute.

[Jade Washaw]

They are. I love it. That's amazing, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jade Washaw]

Amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it can't be done. We're all gonna die.

[Jade Washaw]

Not.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, not if you're Nathan and Megan. They got it figured out, baby. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. And you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you gotta be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their Home Buyer Edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market, you can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre approval. It makes look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com to get started today. That's ChurchillMortgage.com. this is a paid advertisement.

[Megan]

Home Buyer Edge and seller guarantee are

[TJ]

available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations.

[Megan]

NMLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumerexcess.org Eagle Housing Lender.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mark is in Mobile, Alabama. Hey, Mark. How are you doing? Good.

[Caller]

How about you, Mr. Ramsey?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I work offshore and I make about $90,000 a year, and I'm going 20 days out of the month and I'm home for 10. And my wife would like me home. And I'd also like to be home, too, because later we'd also like to maybe start having kids and starting having a family. We are on baby step two, and just wondering what y' all would think about that if I need to stay on the boat till we get baby step two paid off, or would it still be okay to come home?

[Jade Washaw]

I mean, gosh, that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's it mean? What's it mean? How long are you gonna be gone? I mean, how much debt do you. How much debt do you have and how quick Will you get paid off?

[Caller]

So we have $23,000 in consumer debt beside our house. I bring home $5,800. Our bills is $3,600 roughly. And then we have $2,100 left over that we could put towards the it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you'd be debt free in like 10 months except your house. Okay? Yes, sir. So and you make 90 and you're only coming home with 5,800. There's something wrong with that. Where's all that money going? That's a lot of

[Caller]

90 taxes. And I do have insurances through work and I also have a life insurance policy through work that I took out a little bit extra.

Extra.

I'm in the process of getting rid of that life insurance policy and going to term life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And that'll cut, that'll increase your take home pay as well.

[Jade Washaw]

What about your wife? What's she doing?

[Caller]

She is not doing anything right now. She is in the process of going to the post office. So about March or April she will be working at the post office.

[Jade Washaw]

And what will that bring monthly and yearly?

[Caller]

Roughly 3,000 to three, $500 a month.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're going to cut your pay by 30 or 40,000 and she's going to increase hers by 30 or 40,000 by you coming off the boat, Is that right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got a job lined up if you did that?

[Caller]

I don't have a job lined up right now. I have been looking at different jobs. I just wanted to get, get someone's opinion on what they would do if they would finish paying that offer.

[Jade Washaw]

I mean if you can line something up that, that's in line with when she starts working. I would do that in two seconds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Your, your household is going to have the same money coming in. Agreed?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I mean you're going to get something that's going to. I got to pay as much as a boat. But you're going to get something. I mean you need to go search out the job market and figure out what you can land. You might land something almost as much as you're getting paid offshore. I don't think so. But you might.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Well, the job I'm looking at now, it starts out at 40,000 a year and then within two years you can be bumped up to 70 to 80,000. Doing what there is margin being a steel mill worker in Mobile.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. Well, here's the thing. We're not really cutting your income from 90 to 40. Were really your household income is going to be the same because she's going to go to work and make up the difference. Is that a correct statement?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Based on that I'm coming home.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And take the steel mill job and let's get started. Because you're going to be out of debt in the same time as if she didn't work and you stayed on the boat, see?

[Caller]

Yes sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

You still ought to be able to get out of debt in eight or 10 months and no eating out. Both of you take extra jobs, do everything you can and you're still going to be home more doing that than you would have been on the, on the rig and offshore. And yeah, I think I am coming home based on all of this. But if the only part of the equation was I'm just simply going to cut my income in half, then I might stay 10 more months and knock

[Jade Washaw]

it out for the 10 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I might stay another six months and knock it out, whatever. But you know the fact that she's going to be making up some of the difference, you're taking a job that's going to escalate an income over the next couple of years a lot. And you can pick up extra jobs and you can get on the every dollar budget and tighten up and put all of that in there. Yeah, I'd want to come home. I don't. I mean I've traveled a lot with what I do over the years, but I've never done, I mean I'm never, very seldom have I done one month or 20 day stretches. Most of the time it's a five day thing or a two day thing or something like that. I'm out and back. And that's not nearly as strenuous as being gone from the family like an over the road truck driver or military being deployed or working offshore like this.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, but you know, you can make some money. And you know, when the Iraqi war for instance, was wrapping up, there was a lot of civilian positions where people could go over there for six months or eight months and make two or three hundred grand doing stuff. And people were doing that for a short period of time to leapfrog forward. And I might be willing to do something like that if I was paying a price to win.

[Jade Washaw]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I gotta see the end to it.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so yeah, I think I would do that. I think I would do that.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. She really is the key to this equation. Her working is the key to all of this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly, exactly. And so if you guys Start having kids. She doesn't get to quit unless your income has come up.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're gonna have to manage that and keep all that stuff tied in there together. Sarah is with us in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. Thanks, Dave and Jade, for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I recently became guardian of my dad. He has dementia and we have moved him into a senior apartment. My question is about his finances. I'm not sure what to do with everything that he has. Trying to honor what he has done and saved and worked for, but also what to do moving forward with all of his finances. We're gonna sell his house. I'm not sure what to do with those funds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we would just manage it for his good. Agreed.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Does he have bills that need to be paid?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt does he have?

[Caller]

No debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's good. So the only bills are this assisted living situation.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's. It's not a problem of not enough money. It's. I'm not sure what to do with all of his money.

[Jade Washaw]

What will happen when you sell the house? How much will you have?

[Caller]

About 400,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much do you have now in other accounts?

[Caller]

He's got 355,000 in an IRA, $369,000 in a Roth, $177,000 in a non retirement. Those are all three with the same financial institution.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then in a bank, he's got $315,000, which I know I should move some of that, but I don't know what to do with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's got like. He's got like a million and a half dollars. So he's in really good shape. Way to go down.

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. And you have full power of attorney

[Caller]

guardianship, which is above power of attorney.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. But I mean, you've got the ability to do with this as you will for his benefit.

[Caller]

Yes, correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I would get on ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pro and sit and talk to one of the Smartvestor Pro financial advisors that we have endorsed. They don't work for us, but they have the heart of a teacher and say, I've got this million and a half dollars. I want to put it in a place that will care for him and that it will grow without much risk. And so I think you can pick out a series of low risk but not volatile mutual funds, something like some S and P type stuff, and let the money sit there and grow and the growth will easily care for him. And you can put it in a situation where it's very easy to manage and without taking a big, huge boatload of risk and just sit there and talk to them and let. Their job is to teach you how to make these decisions on behalf of your dad.

[Caller]

Is it smarter to separate some of those funds and put them in two different financial places or is it better to keep it all?

[Dave Ramsey]

I would. I would have it in one.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And just because. But you're making the decision of where it goes. So you could have it in several different mutual funds with one financial advisor.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you don't need two advisors. That's. You're gonna get. You're gonna get crossed up. And yet you know, you need to get someone, but you're not doing what they say to do. They are teaching you and they do what you say to do.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how we're going to approach this. It's your job and they're there to help you do your job. We're not looking for a babysitter, a nanny. This is not a boarding school for money. You're still the parent. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Tina is with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Tina. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I kind of got myself in a tickle. I'm going to try and get through this, but it's so fresh that it's really hard. My husband passed away about four years ago. He's in a nursing home for about four years before that. That ate up any money that we had saved. It was like $10,000 a month to have him there. And then the. He was on what's called Medicaid in Iowa and now they're trying to sue me for $200,000 for his nursing home care. They want reimbursed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller]

So the only thing I have that they. That's just.

[Jade Washaw]

How is it because they didn't think you qualified? It turned out you didn't qualify.

[Caller]

No, no, that's just part of how to Medicaid. It's a state insurance and they want their money back. They don't tell you that when you sign up for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's not how Medicaid works. Honey, you're confused.

[Caller]

That's what the state has.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, Medicaid is not. Medicaid is administered by the state. It's a federal program and it's welfare for poor people. And if you go to a nursing home and you qualify based on your assets and your income, Medicaid pays for it and they don't get the money, and they don't get the money back.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, they keep sending a bill saying I owe $200,000.

So why, why do they think you

owe $200,000 for his, his nursing home care?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, honey, if he qualified for Medicaid, he doesn't owe the $200,000. They're wanting it back because they think he didn't qualify. They think you have too much in money in income or assets.

[Caller]

Well, he was on disability and I was on disability, so then you need

[Dave Ramsey]

to get an attorney to look at this and negotiate with Medicaid because Medicaid's gotten some bad information, it sounds like, but you don't automatically. They don't just automatically sue everybody that goes into nursing home and Medicaid. That's not how it works.

[Caller]

It was about a month after he passed away. I got this bill.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need, you need to talk to an attorney about that. Now what's the other thing that we can help you with?

[Caller]

Well, I sold the house because I just wasn't going to let them take that away from me because, you know, when I. What they said is they can't come after me until I'm gone and passed away. And they were going to take whatever I owned as payment. And the house was too much for me anyway. I'm almost 60. So I sold it and I got, you know, it was paid for, so the money was mine and I put it away in the a trust account and I had my daughter as trustee. She trusted her completely. She never did anything wrong with it. But unfortunately, when people realized I had the money, then all of the handouts came and can you help me? Can you help me? Can you help me? And unfortunately, I have a giving heart and so I helped them all expecting to get paid back. They all promised to get it paid back and now all I get is excuses to get it paid back when I'm financially struggling.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you gave away how much money?

[Caller]

$69,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what are you living on? You're living on disability and social?

[Caller]

Yeah, disability.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the nature of your disability?

[Caller]

I have anxiety and panic attacks. So, like stroke level panic attacks. They look like I'm having a heart attack.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you being treated for all of that?

[Caller]

Yeah, I just can't work. I went back to school to do villain encoding. I've done medical for 20 plus years and somebody else paid for me to go back to school, so I'm taking that advantage so I can try to get a job working from home. But unfortunately, the catch 22 is they want you to have three years experience before they'll hire you to work remote,

[Dave Ramsey]

you know, so what. What are you able to live on your disability income?

[Caller]

Well, I was until. I mean, I found a cheaper apartment. I was an apartment that was like 875amonth plus utilities, and I found another one that's half of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So are you able to live on your disability now?

[Caller]

Well, I am, except for the debt that I've accumulated by living in that more expensive.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, how much debt did you run up?

[Caller]

Well, I was working and I bought a car because I needed a dependable vehicle, So I owe 20 grand on it. And then I got two credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where's the car?

[Caller]

The cards? In my garage right now. I. I can't even sell it. It's not worth what I owe on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but it is wor. And you could get rid of it and cut most of that debt away because you're living on. You're living on nothing. You can't afford a $21,000 car in your garage, huh?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's gotta be sold.

[Caller]

I was planning on getting another job, but it just seems like I'm just running into brick walls.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, the first thing we've got to do is quit digging the hole. Okay? So, yeah, you need an attorney to represent you and keep Medicaid off of you. You need to start talking to your relatives about trying to get some of your money back. I don't think you'll ever see any of it again. I think that's gone. That was obviously a huge mistake. You were not in a position to be generous, regardless of what your heart was telling you. And you were in a situation that you needed generosity, not the other way around. And so, yeah, I think. And then you guys start talking about how we can get a $5,000 car and get rid of this $21,000 car because you can't afford. And so start making some moves in that regard. You haven't hit a brick wall. You just keep having these same. These different things occur. And then you step into something. You step into, I give away 51,000 or I buy a $21,000 car I can't afford. And see, there's a $70,000 swing right there.

[Jade Washaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just in this story. And if we had that $70,000 back, you'd be in a completely different scenario. And you know, you give an attorney five grand and they'll make the Medicaid thing go away. Hope, I hope you, I hope he was qualified to go into a Medicaid

[Jade Washaw]

nursing home, it looks like, unless somebody else was supposed to be responsible for it. So if you received any type of settlement, they can come back. If he was injured in any kind of accident and somebody else's insurance should have paid, they can pay for it up front and then want that money back. So I would do due diligence on that. We don't know any of the nature surrounding him going into that facility. But you should look into that and find out and make sure there is nothing on your end that might have triggered that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but most of the time Medicaid is a welfare program that provides nursing home for free and you don't have to pay it back for people that are certifiably poor.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a welfare program. And there's no, they don't automatically come and want the money back. So the fact that they've done that tells me that they believe something that's not true or, or he didn't qualify and you guys took care from the welfare system that you shouldn't have. And then if that's the case, you got a mess. But hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully there's just some confusion about the way the paperwork was filled out and this thing can be made to go away. And that's most of the time what it is when you're dealing with these bureaucrats. That's how the deal works. So just keep chipping away at the different parts of this, Tina, and I think you can make your way through it. If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in baby step four or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The live like no one else Cruise is back. 3-14-21, 2027. Jo join the Ramsey personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Cay, Cozumel, Jamaica and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt free vacation cabins will sell out just like last time. Lock in yours with a $600 [e-mail] event. Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, you can head over to the website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on on proven Ramsey Principles. You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Might be a little nicer. Ask your question [e-mail] or just click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or on YouTube. Folks, if you're debt free, the live like no one else cruise is your chance to celebrate. Hang out with us. I'm going to be there. All the Ramsey solution, all the Ramsey personalities are going to be there. Sharon will be with us. We've got new sess on building wealth live episodes of our shows and the world large world's largest debt free scream on the live like no one else cruise. This is premium cruise line, the best of the best. We're going to be doing the western Caribbean this time which means Jamaica, mon. Yeah. Secure your cabin with a $600 deposit. We're going to be going one year from March on March 20 27.

[Jade Washaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

This thing is getting close to being sold out a year away. So you want to go and get your cabin reserved now? Ramseysolutions.com events book your cabin today, mon. Alright, here we go. Salt Lake City is with us. Tiffany's calling. Hey, Tiffany.

[Caller]

Hey Dave. Hi Jade. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

First of all, I'm so nervous, so bear with me. I can feel my heart pounding in my ear.

[Dave Ramsey]

We've never lost a patient. You're gonna make it.

[Caller]

I hope I'm not going to be the first. Well, first of all, thank you. I'm so honored to talk to you guys. You are part of my, I don't know, you became part of my life. I listened to you guys. You're kind of the dad that you know, I wish I would have. And Jade, you like such a badass sister. I just, I. You guys are amazing.

[Jade Washaw]

Thank you friend. We're glad you here.

[Caller]

Okay, so here's my little dilemma. How do I get strategically? Strategically. Sorry. English is my second language. I'm actually from a different country, Europe. How do I get strategically? Strategically. Oh Lord. You guys know what I mean.

[Jade Washaw]

Strategically.

[Caller]

Thank you. Hey, just the whole world is listening. That's fine. My family have loaned me so far $2.1 million. My husband and I, we own two companies. We have a framing company, steel framing company where we do regular framing for residential new construction and the roof trusses. And we do have a construction company where we actually build the spec homes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you make more

[Caller]

at the point?

[Jade Washaw]

Not.

[Caller]

We finally started making some money or at least it looks better on paper, I guess. It took us about two years to. Everything started in 2022. We got $1.2 million from a family member to start a company where we got the machines to do those framings. They come and steel coils and you basically just, just, you know, form and build whatever you need. In 2023 we got another $200,000 and in 2024 we got another $500,000. Our family are new developers as well, so they bought bunch of land, over 750 acres and started developing or just finished their first development. And we're going to be able to build 30 homes out of 50. And that's kind of why we risk it to get in that whole dilemma. My issue here is besides that we keep getting loans, got another $200,000 from another family member. And right now we're in the process of applying for first official loan from a bank because we just keep running out of money. We self finance is, I would say self finance the spec homes. So every penny that we make, we put it into the homes, we sell it and then that profit we immediately take into the next house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so this is not working.

[Jade Washaw]

Even if you sold, even if you did 50 of the 50 homes, would this make you right side up?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller]

At some point that's the hope. But I have another.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't just keep borrowing money because you can't seem to make money.

[Caller]

Well, and here comes another big issue. I do the books for a company and I just found out that in 2025, my husband started day trading without my knowledge. And so he tanked over $113,000. I spoke to him last week about it and he said, yeah, he, he effed up. He was hoping to make fast money because nothing really worked out last year and you know, there's $80 left.

[Dave Ramsey]

So

[Caller]

how, how the hell do, how do I, I need help to know. How do we get out of the mess? And besides that, we have a two and a four year old of course on top of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So first thing is that if he ever comes close to day trading again, you can tell him that he's no longer your husband. There's too much stress here and that is a breach of trust. He lied to you and he stole the money.

[Caller]

Yep, I told him that too.

[Dave Ramsey]

I told him this is not okay. This is not okay. This is really crooked bad stuff for anybody to do to their spouse, number one. Number two, you guys need to sit down and look at this business model and figure out when you're Gonna start making money, and it needs to be tomorrow. You guys need to sell some stuff off. You need to quit trying to do so. Dadgum much. Y' all haven't made anything yet. All you've done is borrow money and waste it.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, at least not enough. Like on papers. Examples.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no such thing as on paper. If on paper you made money, you would have some money.

[Caller]

Like in 2024, we made $850,000 gross.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where did it go?

[Caller]

In the other homes and then again the other homes and then.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're buying these home. You're building these homes and you're financing them and carrying the paper. Paper.

[Caller]

Oh, no, no, we're building them.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. If you build them and don't you sell them?

[Caller]

Yes, we do.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you put $850,000 in homes and build them, don't you get a million and a half out when you sell them?

[Caller]

Well, you told are like, smaller homes. So we're like, doing. Usually between 400.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but I mean, aren't you getting the money back out? Don't you turn around and sell the house? If you build a house, don't you turn around and sell it? Make. Make money. It's how most builders do it.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you should be making money. Where's all the stinking money going? You didn't put it in the house and then it disappeared. You put it in the house and you turn around, sold the house.

[Jade Washaw]

You said before that it was broken into two businesses. I wonder if the construction business is the problem. And you need to just focus on the steel framing or the other way around cost.

[Caller]

And the overhead costs are just ridiculous. We pay over $25,000 almost a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know if you know what profit is. Do you know what profit is?

[Caller]

I love when you ask that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you need to have your income minus your outgo equals your profits. And. And you haven't made money because all you've done is borrow $2 million and you have no money. So you don't have any profits on paper or otherwise. Because if you have profit on paper, honey, you have the money in the bank. There's no on paper profit. There's no such thing. You either. If my paper says I have a profit, I need to look over in the checking account and see the stinking money there. That's how this works. So if you put $400,000 into a house and you sell it for $500,000, you should not only get your 400 back, you should get an extra hundred back. So there should be be 500 laying over there after that house sells. That's how this works. And so y' all suck at this. You need to get in there and get somebody to come alongside you and figure out how to run these businesses. Or you need to sell them and pay your family back and go get some jobs. And if he ever goes near a day trading keyboard again, dad gum, man, that's the end of that. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. But y' all been running this and without making a profit for four years and that's just dumb. You got to figure this out. You got to get. You got to turn this thing around or get out of the business. You cannot borrow your way into profitability. That's an impossibility. How many times have you started January saying this is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control. But then months go by and you still feel broke. You work too hard to keep living like that. Look, there's only one way to move the needle on your finances this year. You've got to have a plan. So start by downloading EveryDollar. EveryDollar is way more than our world class budgeting app. In 15 minutes, we'll build you a personalized plan to free up extra margin in your budget and use it to beat debt and build wealth. You'll find thousands of dollars on average just the first day. And you'll get new steps and new lessons every day that help you stay on track and create unstoppable momentum. Don't waste one more day feeling broke and stressed. Get your plan in just 15 minutes by downloading everydollar for free. Debt free today. Well, we love debt free screams. We love them in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on our debt free stage. We super love them when it's one of our Ramsey team members. TJ is with us here with his wife Alice. He's a project manager on the Everydollar team. Been with us about a year and they get to come in here and do their debt free scream. Welcome, guys.

[Nathan]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to have you. How nerve wracking is this?

[TJ]

It's we're here and it's finally real.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. How much have you paid off?

[TJ]

$165,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. How long did that take?

[TJ]

15 months. Awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you've been here about a. So you started on it before, how long y' all been married?

[Nathan]

One year and eight months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. So moving here, getting married, starting the debt free journey. All in the last two years?

[TJ]

Yep.

[Jade Washaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Where'd you move from?

[TJ]

Central Illinois, but we're originally from the Chicagoland.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So you got married, and did you come to Nashville to take the Ramsey job?

[TJ]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Project manager at every dollar. Well, that's awesome. So you people out there that are using every dollar to get out the of. Of debt. It's all TJ's fault. All the things that are awesome about it. It's all TJ's fault. He's one of the many talented folks we got on that team. Really, really working on this. So what kind of Debt was the 165,000?

[TJ]

Yeah, it was 107 in student loans and then 58 in new cars. This was before learning about Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. Gotcha. Okay. Very cool. How's it feel to be 4 free?

[Nathan]

Liberating.

[TJ]

Liberating. Peaceful. It was the best sleep we've ever gotten. Well, I've gotten the past two years, but October 30th, when we made our final payment, filled in the rest of that. I saw the thermometer that we had up there, filling that in, calling those that supported us all along the way and just being able to cheer it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how did the order of events go about learning about doing the Ramsey stuff, coming to work here, getting married, all that. How's that? All that line?

[Nathan]

So we got the total money makeover as a wedding gift.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Nathan]

It was not on our registry.

[Dave Ramsey]

We were not familiar. It seldom is.

[Nathan]

So TJ read the book about three times, and then he started on this journey to try to coerce me into reading it. He was saying that it's Bible based, which really resonated with me. And then he was like, dave's really funny. Which I was like, let me see for myself. And I loved it. We had a conversation where we had combined our finances after getting married and realized that we had $2,800 of minimum payments, and we didn't feel like we were able to really live, even though we had two pretty good incomes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. What do you do?

[Nathan]

I'm a nurse.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome. Very cool. Good. Yeah. That is two good incomes. Excellent. Well done, y'. All.

[TJ]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you get married, you get the book, and you get on the same page, and then how does he end up with this job? That's weird.

[TJ]

Well, it all came down to we were Dave Ish. Around Thanksgiving, I got to talk to my Uncle Matt and Aunt Gina, who were the ones that gifted us total money makeover. And we're like, we're doing It. We're doing it. And they were like, are you really doing it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh.

[TJ]

And we were like, well, we have 20,000 in savings while we're trying to pay down the debts we, you know, we paid for our wedding and anything that was a gift, we just threw at debt. And I'm like, that felt good. Let's keep going. And they were like, hey, check out their website for additional resources. And I was like, okay, cool. So I started looking around. I saw there's a careers page. I'm like, all right, let's see what this is all about. Saw some jobs. I was like, I could probably do that. I applied previous role. I applied for hundreds of jobs and then eventually got my one. I was like, all right, Lord, if you open up the doors for me, I'm going to continue to walk through them. And however was it 12 steps to get here?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[TJ]

The hiring process.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[TJ]

But, you know, it really felt like God called me here, able to serve, be able to be here and help spread hope to other people.

[Jade Washaw]

That's really awesome. So what are you going to do to celebrate?

[TJ]

We did.

[Jade Washaw]

We did.

[Nathan]

We bought a king size bed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Nathan]

Best sleep of my life.

[TJ]

Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, I love that. That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought he was sleeping better because he got out of bed.

[Jade Washaw]

I did too, but they got a new mattress.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because he got a new mattress is what it was. That's great.

[Jade Washaw]

That's excellent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. All right, so what advice do you have? What do you tell people when they say, how did you do that? How do you pay off 165,000 newly married in 15 months? That's over $10,000 a month.

[TJ]

Yeah. God's blessings for sure. Everything kind of had to come right together. We wrote down October of 2025, and when I first. When we were writing that, I'm like, everything is going to have to come up right in order for this to happen. And God's blessings allowed us to be there. New opportunities. She was travel, nursing, good money, which is where a lot of all of that came from.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's good money.

[TJ]

And it took a lot of sacrifice. I mean, I had to move down here, and I was here for about a month and a half before she got to come down after she wrapped up.

[Jade Washaw]

That is a big sacrifice.

[TJ]

So she was doing some roles that were about an hour and a half away, so a lot long commute. And I appreciate all the sacrifices that we were able to make, both of us taking up multiple jobs to be able to get there and just want to be an Inspiration to others.

[Dave Ramsey]

So working here can be a mixed blessing because everybody's like, everybody's doing this. You know, it's like the positive peer pressure. But it's also, I mean, was it helpful to have your team, you know, all up in your business or, you know, your buddies cheering you on or was that a back. I mean, they're all standing out there. You better be nice. But I mean, is it helpful to be in this kind of environment when you're doing it or not? I think it could work against you.

[TJ]

Yeah. At least I can tell my side. It's been extremely. It's a support system. If we didn't believe in it, then, yes, I think it'd be a whole lot of different pressure. They were like, oh, I don't really want to do. But we believed in it. We knew that was going to be good for us. Changing our family tree, going through financial Peace University, really seeing the whole scope of where your life can change and being able to use every dollar to keep us on track and on budget along for that.

[Nathan]

It was a blessing for us because as far as our friends and family, it's still kind of a mixed bag as far as, you know, their thoughts on our journey. So we committed to it. It was amazing for TJ to be working in an environment where we got that support. So it ultimately was such a blessing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Cool. Very cool.

[Jade Washaw]

Any setbacks on the way right after

[TJ]

we get out of it? I had to. We had some. I had some health stuff that came up. So we got debt free and then we were able to cash flow 10k in medical expenses and now we're tacking on taxes, but we were able to cash flow at all car repairs and all that. We were able to cash flow it as we. We went.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's about time to celebrate with some of it. Oh, my gosh. That's enough. Enough already. So you're working on an every dollar, your project manager on every dollar, the journey. And now the freedom has to affect how you look at all those projects.

[TJ]

Yeah, just.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you're not agnostic anymore. You're in it.

[TJ]

You're able to just focus. It's being able to say, okay, this. I'm a product of this. I believed in it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[TJ]

It makes it that much more motivating to be able to come in every single day, come into work knowing that I made a difference not only for myself, but for everyone outside of these walls, which I know we preach very dearly here. It's truly inspiring. It's just so nice to be a part of it. Something that you believe in and you're able to say, I'm affecting this. I'm changing this. I'm trying to make this better. I'm trying to make it easier to work the Rams plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[TJ]

And that's all the motivation you need.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen. Amen. I'm proud of y'. All.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. Excellent job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done. And the team's out here gathered, and none of them are working. They're all here to cheer you on. And this is great. I'm glad they're here to cheer you on. It's very, very cool. Congratulations, you two.

[Jade Washaw]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very well done. All right, we don't ask when our team members on. We don't ask their household income because all their friends are standing around. And that's not fair. But they did pay off 160, $65,000 in 15 months. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Nathan]

Three, two, one.

[Jade Washaw]

We're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is how you do it, ladies and gentlemen.

[Jade Washaw]

Love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man, you know, I can't. I can't imagine coming to work in a place like this right after I got married. The place I went to work right after I got married was bad.

[Jade Washaw]

I mean, lucky for them, it's great because now you're submerged by everything. You need to get off on the right foot financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like you don't have a choice around here. I mean, well, you're on stage this morning, staff meeting, doing walk the talk.

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have a whole system here where we're not being hypocrites. The people that work here need to be doing the stuff we teach, you know, hello.

[Jade Washaw]

100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

100% the non hypocrite system. Walk the talk.

[Jade Washaw]

Right on your honor. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And these guys, they. They did it. I'm so proud of them. $165,000.

[Jade Washaw]

Smoking it. 15 months, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's get it done. Get her done.

[Caller]

Hey, good folks, Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope. We want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job [e-mail] careers. That's ramseysolutions.com careers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our Scripture of the day is 1st Corinthians 15:58. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. Thomas Sowell said, there are people who go through the motions and people who get the job to go done. It's amazing how much work you can accomplish just by hiring the latter and firing the former. Amen. Charlie is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Charlie, how are you?

[Caller]

Better than I deserve. How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same. What's up?

[Caller]

Yeah, so my wife and I, we have two young kids and this mom, we just got debt free, so we pay off the mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Caller]

Thank you. Thank you. So the question is, so I have a pretty good job. My wife, she stays home. My dad, he is in his 70s. He's still working probably because maybe a series of poor financial decisions. So he cannot retire because he has to continue to financially support other family members, adult family members in the family overseas. And so I'm a bit torn because I, I don't have any that I can help. But I also don't want to continue to encourage bad behaviors. So I'm kind of torn apart and seeking some advice here.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do you make?

[Caller]

600,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Good for you. And what is it you're being torn about? What is it they're at you're being asked to do or that you're doing? Doing.

[Caller]

I want my dad to be able to enjoy retirement life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But he chose to give all his money to somebody overseas.

[Caller]

Well, he lives overseas, so he live here in the States. We are immigrants.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. From which country?

[Caller]

Korea.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so he lives overseas and he's 70 years old and he doesn't, he has the money to support himself, but he doesn't because he gives it to other family members. Members.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Jade Washaw]

What's the situation with the other family members? Are they ill? Are they unable to work? Can he stop doing that today or is the damage completely done?

[Caller]

Well, I say it's a multifold. Right. So, you know, some of the family member, he support them just to help them with their lifestyle choices. And some of the family members, they chose not to work because, you know, some of the, the poor choices they made in the past, so that makes them, makes it very difficult for them to find jobs. So basically my dad has been paying for everything, you know, for as long.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would happen if he couldn't?

[Caller]

That's the big question. So we don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

So do you give your money?

[Caller]

Huh?

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you being asked to give your father money so that he can work?

[Caller]

He makes good money, but I'm worried he probably doesn't have enough say for his.

[Jade Washaw]

What's the equivalent? Give us an equivalent in US Dollars of what he makes over there.

[Caller]

Oh, he makes $250,000 and he's 70 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so let me stop. What's the problem? The problem is he gives all of his money away and he's going to retire with nothing and ask you to get to help him. Is that the problem?

[Caller]

The problem is, you know, I don't know if that's gonna make the problem worse because I'm worried that if I give him the. The money, the money just go to other family members.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I wouldn't give him anything. I'm just asking you today. You're not giving him anything. So there's not a problem other than you're observing that in the future there's getting ready to be something happening, Right?

[Caller]

Correct. I'm anticipating.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Okay. All right. So what you're anticipating is, is that he's going to run out of the ability to work and not have any money because he's given all of his away.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, at that point, you can decide how much you want to help him. I mean, and you, you'll have the money to. You make 600,000. But we're not going to help him to the tune that he has enough to help everybody else, only to the. That he has enough to help himself. I'm guessing because I'm a redneck hillbilly and I don't know these things, but I'm guessing that part of this might be cultural.

[Caller]

It is very cultural, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because, I mean, in the Latino world, for instance, it's very normal to have more of a family obligation to support parents than we would have in a typical gringo culture. Right. My hillbilly culture, you know, you're not required to do that. Puritan ethics, so to speak, you're not required to do that. Right. But in an Asian culture, where you're talking about, or the Latino culture, it's more normalized to be asked to, expected to, and you've grown up with it your whole life. It's integrated into your DNA that this is how things are done. Is that correct?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's 100% correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And I'm thinking that may lend itself to why he's giving all of his money away as well. Even though someone in my seat would look at that and go, why are you doing that? But, but. And the answer is it's a cultural difference to do that. It doesn't make it smart, doesn't make it dumb. It's just an explanation. Right. So mathematically we can all agree it's dumb, but there's a reason that he's doing it. It's not just straight up irresponsibility, although it is intertwined into this cultural icon. So yeah, I think I'd talk to him about it if he'll listen. But I bet he doesn't and just say, dad, you need to be aware that when you are broke, I will be helping you only with food and shelter, not with enough for you to further on your giving of these other people. So these other people, when you run out of gas and aren't able to work, are going to be on their own.

[Jade Washaw]

Own.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they should know that now because I'm not going to be held to this standard. I think it's okay to go ahead and communicate that, but I don't think it's going to change what's going to occur. What's going to occur is what you expect. I think that's exactly what's going to happen. Do you, Jade?

[Jade Washaw]

I do. I think he's 70 years old and he's been making this decision for a long time and it would be a miracle if he stopped today.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he's old school within that culture.

[Jade Washaw]

Culture, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he's, he's duty bound.

[Jade Washaw]

Yep. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And gonna follow through on his duty to take care of them no matter how irresponsible or, you know, bad decisions they've been making. He's gonna do it anyway, I think. Aren't you, Charlie? You agree with that?

[Caller]

I agree. I agree 100. I tried to have a conversation 10 years ago. Didn't really go anywhere. So I decided to focus on my own and then try to get that free and protect the family.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, the hard part for you,

[Jade Washaw]

Charlie, is holding gonna be to hold that boundary when the time comes comes because you're likely going to feel guilty and all these other things. But it wasn't your. You didn't make the choice. Right. He did. And that's the thing that you'll have to remind yourself of many, many times.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you'll be able to help him to a reasonable degree.

[Megan]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

But not an unreasonable degree. And it's not going to be, it's not going to make everybody happy. No one in the end of the story is going to be thrilled with the outcome. But you great news is you make a huge income and you're going to be in a wonderful position financially. And if you want to reach over and do a, you know, help somebody a little bit every month, you can do that. And you won't even notice mathematically. And so that's the thing. So not accounting for cultural differences. And you have to account for that. So it's not fair to say that. But you just. Folks, you need to plan to not be a burden on your children.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, you do. And you said it exactly right. You know, it might be a reason. Reason for a behavior, but it doesn't make it right or good.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's true.

[Jade Washaw]

And the same way that Charlie was able to look at that and go, that doesn't make sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. And he comes. He comes from right. Comes right straight out of that. So. So yeah, you just gotta go, no.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, you can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't park your. We're not gonna participate in that. It doesn't make sense.

[Jade Washaw]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I've learned a better way.

[Jade Washaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that can happen. You could learn that. I could learn that from his culture. You learn that from my culture. It doesn't matter. You can learn a better way.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right. But the hard part is he's going to have that at the expense of hurt feeling, hurt feelings and family meals. And all that stuff is going to be very different. When you. When you draw boundaries like that, people don't like it and they push up against them and all that stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

So count on it.

[Jade Washaw]

Good luck to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus Sa.