This Is How You Take Control of Your Own Life

Summary

Summary of "The Ramsey Show" Episode: "This Is How You Take Control of Your Own Life"

Release Date: March 12, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Ramsey Show, hosted by George Camel and Dr. John Deloney, listeners are guided through real-life financial dilemmas, expert advice, and inspiring success stories. The episode centers around taking control of one's financial destiny, overcoming debt, and making informed decisions to secure a stable future. Below is a detailed summary capturing all key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

---

1. Addressing Misguided Legal Advice

Caller: Jason from Cincinnati
Issue: Jason’s mother was advised by a lawyer to stop paying certain debts, leading to significant financial strain upon his mother's sister moving in.

• George Camel questions the legitimacy of the legal advice received, suspecting a debt relief scam:

  "[00:57] George Camel: 'I would question who she got in contact with and what their actual credentials are.'”

• Dr. John Deloney emphasizes that reputable attorneys wouldn't advise abandoning debt payments without a solid legal reason:

  "[02:06] Dr. John Deloney: 'They won't rip you off like that because it may put your mom in a situation like she's in now, which is pretty dire.'"

• Advice Given:

  • Evaluate the legitimacy of the legal counsel received.
  • Understand the types of debts (secured vs. unsecured) and their implications.
  • Encourage open communication within the family to collaboratively address financial challenges.

---

2. Struggling with a New Business Venture

Caller: Kelly from Salt Lake City
Issue: Kelly and her husband invested heavily in an indoor baseball training facility but are now facing mounting debts and insufficient income to cover monthly expenses.

• George Camel highlights the unsustainable nature of their current financial model:

  "[11:57] Dr. John Deloney: '...your lease payment is $30,000. So you're bleeding money every month.'"

• Dr. John Deloney advises a thorough assessment of their business plan and explores options like subleasing and increasing income streams:

  "[12:18] George Camel: 'Talk to the landlord and explain what's going on and see how quickly you can get out of this lease because it's going to continue to bleed money.'"

• Advice Given:

  • Reevaluate business expenses and seek ways to increase revenue.
  • Consider reducing overhead costs or negotiating lease terms.
  • Assess the feasibility of the business's profitability and explore exit strategies if necessary.

---

3. Celebrating Debt Freedom

Guest: Joanda from Philadelphia
Success Story: Joanda successfully paid off $86,613 in debt over 48 months while maintaining an income ranging from $70,000 to $84,000 annually.

• Joanda's Debt Breakdown:

  • $14,000 car loan
  • $4,000 unemployment repayment
  • $4,000 local back taxes
  • $64,000 student loans

• Inspiring Turnaround: After struggling with various debts and setbacks, Joanda committed to the Ramsey Plan with the support of an accountability partner or financial coach:

  "[23:43] Joanda: 'I've just decided to get after it. I got an accountability partners or a Ramsey, I believe, financial coach.'"

• Emotional Insight:

  • Joanda emphasizes the emotional peace and increased opportunities that come with being debt-free.

    "[27:18] Joanda: 'I would say it feels like the opportunities exponentially more opportunities have opened up to you and that you just have some emotional peace.'"

• Advice for Others:

  • Commit to a structured debt repayment plan.
  • Seek accountability and support systems.
  • Focus on long-term financial goals to stay motivated.

---

4. Balancing Vocational Dreams with Financial Stability

Caller: Renee from Akron, Ohio
Issue: Renee, nearing financial milestones (Baby Steps 4-6), feels torn between leaving her corporate job for vocational ministry and maintaining financial security.

• Financial Snapshot:

  • Monthly mortgage: $559
  • Income: $95,000
  • Savings: $11,000
  • Monthly expenses: Approximately $3,000

• George Camel's Guidance:

  "[36:32] George Camel: 'I would keep your full-time job or take another job full time that still offers flexibility for you to do this vocational ministry part-time.'"

• Dr. John Deloney's Insight:

  • Encourages Renee to evaluate her current job satisfaction and the feasibility of balancing both roles without compromising financial stability.

• Advice Given:

  • Maintain a stable income source while exploring vocational interests.
  • Ensure adequate emergency funds before making significant career changes.
  • Gradually integrate vocational activities without sacrificing financial goals.

---

5. Managing Extra Savings Post-Baby Steps

Caller: Cole from Cincinnati
Issue: Cole is navigating Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6, seeking guidance on utilizing extra savings effectively beyond the established financial milestones.

• Financial Snapshot:

  • Mortgage remaining: $172,000
  • Savings Goal: Extra payments towards mortgage and setting up sinking funds for future goals.

• George Camel's Strategy:

  "[70:35] George Camel: 'Set up sinking funds...assign it to all the places you want it to go.'"

• Dr. John Deloney's Advice:

  • Encourages investing in index funds and maximizing retirement contributions once the mortgage is paid off.

• Advice Given:

  • Prioritize paying down the mortgage faster by making extra payments.
  • Allocate remaining savings to specific financial goals like vacations, education, or investment vehicles.
  • Continue following the Baby Steps framework to build sustainable wealth.

---

6. Navigating Inheritance and Giving

Caller: Molly (Location Unspecified)
Issue: Molly recently received an inheritance and seeks guidance on whether to tithe the entire amount upfront or invest and tithe the income generated.

• Inheritance Details:

  • Total Received: $850,000
  • Current Allocation: 75% sold and placed in a money market fund; 25% retained in stock.

• George Camel's Recommendation:

  "[58:36] George Camel: 'I would tithe 10% of your income... whenever you do sell it, I would take 10% of whatever that is and tithe that.'"

• Dr. John Deloney's Insight:

  • Advises against complicating the process and suggests setting aside a portion for tithing while investing the remainder to allow for compound growth.

• Advice Given:

  • Determine a tithe based on actual income received from investments.
  • Utilize financial advisors to maximize investment growth while honoring philanthropic goals.
  • Balance immediate giving with long-term financial stewardship.

---

7. Coping with Financial Shame and Celebrating Progress

Caller: Paige from Ohio
Issue: Paige and her husband are new to the Baby Steps and struggle with feelings of shame and guilt despite making progress in debt repayment.

• Emotional Challenges:

  • Constant stress and emotional turmoil over remaining debts.
  • Difficulty in celebrating small victories amidst larger financial goals.

• Advice from Hosts:

  • Acknowledge and express emotions but focus on incremental progress.

    "[64:55] Dr. John Deloney: 'Feel those feelings and just keep doing the next right thing.'"

  • Utilize visual tools like debt thermometers and chains to track progress.

    "[67:09] Dr. John Deloney: 'Sometimes it is hard to see the forest from the trees when you're in the middle of this.'"

• Advice Given:

  • Recognize and validate feelings of stress and disappointment.
  • Celebrate small wins to maintain motivation and positive outlook.
  • Continue adhering to the Baby Steps while managing emotional well-being.

---

8. Optimizing Extra Savings and Future Investments

Caller: Not Named (Possible Cole)
Issue: Inquiring about the best use of extra savings after completing specific Baby Steps.

• Financial Strategy:

  • Utilize extra funds to make additional mortgage payments.
  • Set up sinking funds for future expenses like vacations or emergencies.

• George Camel's Strategy:

  "[71:35] George Camel: 'Assign it to all the places you want it to go... If you don't have a place for it, I just start chunking at the mortgage for now.'"

• Dr. John Deloney's Guidance:

  • Encourage continued investment in index funds and retirement accounts post-mortgage payoff.

• Advice Given:

  • Continue increasing investments after securing mortgage and other financial goals.
  • Strategically allocate funds to maximize financial growth and stability.

---

9. Preventing Debt Among New Immigrants

Caller: Hybe from West Haven, Connecticut
Issue: As a recent immigrant with limited financial experience, Hybe considers unconventional living arrangements to manage low income and lack of experience.

• Current Situation:

  • Monthly Income: $3,000
  • Expenses: $650 rent
  • Debt Plan: Contemplating buying an SUV and living in it to save money.

• Hosts' Response:

  • Strongly discourage taking on unnecessary debt, especially for depreciating assets like cars.

    "[75:46] George Camel: '...don’t fall for the American trap of debt.'"

  • Emphasize the importance of stable housing and avoiding high-risk financial decisions:

    "[78:34] Dr. John Deloney: '...living together. Just call it. Is she the one?'"

• Advice Given:

  • Maintain affordable and stable housing.
  • Avoid financing depreciating assets; instead, save for essential purchases.
  • Seek financial education and utilize available resources like Financial Peace University.
  • Focus on building a solid financial foundation before making significant lifestyle changes.

---

10. Emphasizing the Importance of Tax Filing

Throughout the episode, George Camel and Dr. John Deloney stress the critical importance of filing taxes on time, especially in light of potential IRS layoffs. They debunk misconceptions about delaying tax filings and highlight the severe penalties associated with non-compliance.

• Key Points:

  • Filing taxes remains mandatory despite external changes in the IRS workforce.
  • Penalties for non-filing escalate significantly over time, reaching up to 25% after five months.
  • Encouragement to utilize Ramsey Smart Tax for a simplified and cost-effective filing process.

• Notable Quotes:

  "[32:44] George Camel: 'Pay your taxes, people. [...] IRS debt goes to the very top of the debt snowball.'"

• Advice Given:

  • Prioritize timely tax filings to avoid legal complications.
  • Utilize recommended tax software to streamline the filing process.
  • Consider professional assistance for complex tax situations.

---

11. Final Thoughts and Supportive Messages

The episode concludes with celebratory segments highlighting success stories, promoting upcoming events like the Money and Relationships Tour, and reiterating support for listeners' financial journeys. The hosts offer motivational insights, emphasizing the transformative power of taking control over one's finances and the importance of community support.

• Encouraging Statements:

  "[72:35] Dr. John Deloney: '...you're doing really... we're on your side, my man.'"

  "[73:30] Dave Ramsey: '...Find a Ramsey trusted agent near [e-mail] agent.'"

• Promotion of Resources:

  • Financial Peace University
  • Ramsey Smart Tax
  • Upcoming Money and Relationships Tour

---

Conclusion

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, listeners are guided through a landscape of financial challenges and triumphs, reinforced by expert advice and real-life examples. The overarching message underscores the importance of responsible financial management, proactive debt repayment, and the pursuit of financial freedom through disciplined planning and community support. Whether dealing with personal debt, business struggles, or the complexities of inheritance and giving, George Camel and Dr. John Deloney provide actionable strategies to empower individuals to take control of their financial lives.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Deloney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your [e-mail] tour.

[George Camel]

Live from Ramsey Network work. This is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel joined by number one best selling author and all around good guy, Dr. John Deloney. Taking your calls at 888-255-225. Jump in. We'll talk about your life, your money and try to help you take the right next step. Jason's gonna kick us off in Cincinnati. Jason, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so my mother was advised by a lawyer to stop paying some of her debts. Sister moved in with her about three years ago and they've kind of accumulated since then a decent amount of debt and a lot of it is in my mother's name. And the lawyer told her just to stop making payments on it and just let it go.

[George Camel]

Why was she working with a lawyer?

[Caller]

I don't, I don't necessarily know that she was working with a lot. I think she just called a lawyer to ask for advice. And the lawyer, no lawyer would do, making payments. Yeah, that's kind of what I felt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That didn't pass my smell test.

[George Camel]

I would question who she got in contact with and what their actual credentials are. But this sounds like a debt relief company. That's the only people who would tell you, hey, stop paying on your debt, give me the payment instead and we'll, we'll resolve this on the back end when you tank your financial life and we'll try to settle it. Was that the intention, you think?

[Caller]

No, I don't think so because they didn't, they didn't follow it up with anything like that. I mean, like that's why I told her I was, like I said, mom, it just sounds to me like they just didn't want the business and just was a quick way for them to get off the call, in my opinion.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but they won't give you any other, they won't give you legal advice to just get off the phone like that. Like they, they've got a, they've got a fiduciary interest, a licensed attorney to do what's best for you. And that's why they're not just going to rip off like, yeah, quit paying it. We'll talk to you later. They're just not going to do that because it may put your mom in A situation like she's in now, which is pretty dire.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How bad is the debt?

[Caller]

I would say probably all in all, it's about 30,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, and then your.

[George Camel]

What is your sister's involvement in all this?

[Caller]

So she. She was recently divorced, kind of really left in not such a great place. And she's had several different jobs, some that were high paying, some that were not. She's in one right now that's not very high paying. She's making probably about 16, 18 an hour. And it just kind of keeps them afloat with my mom's Social Security, and my mom also has a small pension from when she was employed earlier in her life.

[George Camel]

Okay, and then what's your involvement? Why are you calling today more just.

[Caller]

Out of concern for them? I didn't know if that. I didn't know if just not paying the debt, you know, was. Could come back on my sister since she lives with her or any of it, because that's what my mom's under the impression that she just stops paying it when she dies, it all goes away. And it was kind of. I don't know, I just. It didn't sit right with me because I listened to you guys all the time on my way home from work, and I don't know, it just. It didn't sound like sound advice to me.

[George Camel]

I would agree. Ignoring your debt and saying, well, I'll just die with it. That's a terrible financial plan. And I can't speak to all of the ramifications of, you know, if it's an unsecured debt, they might write it off when you send a death certificate. If it's a secured debt, it's going to get paid from the estate, so any assets she has will be used to pay it off. And so I'm not sure how all that's going to shake down. Is your mother in good health? Is she able to work?

[Caller]

She's in decent health. She, you know, and when she retired, she was working from home, so I don't necessarily know that. I don't think she's opposed to that, and I think she's actually looking into it, but I think she. She know she's in her mid-70s, so she's kind of like, I don't think she wants to have to go back to work, but I think that's just kind of where she's at right now to where, you know, she's just trying to figure out what she has to do.

[George Camel]

Was she unable to pay all of her bills, including her minimum Debt payments.

[Caller]

So, I mean, like, when she was on her own. No, she had no problem. So, I mean, now that she has my adult sister living with her and they make $16 an hour and she's, you know, they probably don't live on the tightest of budgets. No, they don't.

[George Camel]

But why did. Why did your sister moving in add all of these extra expenses to where now your mom can't stay afloat?

[Caller]

Yeah, I. That's a great question. I think it's. I think it's their living habits, really. It's. It's eating out quite a bit. It's doordash being delivered to the house, and I think they are trying to clean a lot of that up, but I think now it's. It's more.

[George Camel]

So I've not once tried to clean up a mess and said, you know what? Let's just doordash tonight. We've worked hard.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So I think you're the concern, brother, watching your family drown and you want to give them a life raft and there's nothing you can do. Yeah, you can give them all the solutions. I don't think they want to hear it from you, do they? Have you tried to talk to them?

[Caller]

I have, yeah. I've had more. So my mom, because my sister doesn't want to. It's. It's not always easy to talk about.

[George Camel]

Not a great relationship, but, yeah, it's not.

[Caller]

It's not stellar yet.

[George Camel]

And how much debt does your sister have? Do you know?

[Caller]

I couldn't even begin to tell you. I know she has student loans and student loans and a loan against a trust that my family left for us. So, man, I couldn't. I couldn't tell you exactly what it is, but I know it's. It's got to be close to 100,000.

[George Camel]

Yikes.

[Caller]

And that's a guess. That's a complete guess, to be honest.

[George Camel]

And you know your mother's income?

[Caller]

I want to say my mom brings about maybe 1500amonth from her pension and Social Security combined. Roughly, I think. I think.

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[George Camel]

Yeah. There's no way they're even staying in this house. Is it. Is the house paid for? Are they renting?

[Caller]

The house is paid for by my family, who left it in a trust to them. The only thing that they have to pay for for the house is $400 a month for the.

For the HOA fees.

[George Camel]

I'm not sure they can even afford that. Plus insurance and taxes. They're struggling and eating.

[Caller]

They are struggling to correct.

[George Camel]

And car Insurance and gas. I mean, I don't see. I don't see a way out unless we increase the income. And I don't know. I don't know how mom's gonna survive with or without your sister living there. It's clearly not helping to have your sister there. But even if your sister left, I don't see a world where mom pays off 30,000 in debt making 1500 bucks a month, barely making it.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Will they listen to you if you wouldn't sat down with them and said, hey, I want to get a. An honest, true. What is reality picture financially? I want you all to both pull your credit reports. Will they. Will they hear you on that? Are they drowning enough to where they're willing to accept help, or are you just concerned they don't really care what you. What you have to say?

[Caller]

I mean, I think they would listen to me. My only concern is that with my mom getting this advice from this lawyer, I think that she's just kind of like. She sees that as easy street, like, oh, nice. That's the solution. Just stop paying it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. You. I don't know who gave her that. If a licensed attorney answered the phone and just said, yes, ma'am, not going to take your case, but just pay all your. Just quit paying and went on. Or if she's got a friend who's a licensed attorney, like at her church who said, oh, yeah, just quit paying. That person should lose their license.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If she sat down and hired a lawyer who went through everything and found some reason why she didn't have to pay, that's another story. But that doesn't sound like the case here.

[Caller]

No, no. Yeah, that's definitely not the case.

[George Camel]

Have collectors started coming after her?

[Caller]

Didn't hire? Not that I'm aware of, but I can't imagine it wouldn't.

[George Camel]

I mean, it's probably coming soon.

[Caller]

Pretty soon.

[George Camel]

Probably followed by lawsuits.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

She's not just gonna bury her head in the sand and have this go away. So there's gonna be some hard conversations, some major lifestyle changes. Everyone's gonna have to get to work, and I don't want you to enable it. It doesn't sound like you're trying to do that. You're not trying to just fund their life, but there's gonna have to be a conversation about what the next year looks like. 5 years, 10 years. Otherwise you're going to be left with a mess and have to just wash your hands of it and go, you guys do what you want to do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I love sell this house and pay.

[George Camel]

Off all this get sold, find somewhere to rent. Sister's got to go make some real money. Mom might have to work part time. Man, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. It's a series and pattern of terrible financial decisions over a long period of time. That's a hard knot to undo, my friend. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, listen up. Everyone is at risk of identity theft. I don't care if you're a hermit living off the grid, listening to the show on a battery powered radio. All of your data collected by every company you've ever done business with lives online. Your bank, your doctor's office, retailers, the apps on your phone, the gas station where you have loyalty rewards, they all store your info online, making them ripe for a cyber attack or data breach. That's why I've been telling people for almost 25 years they need an ID theft protection plan. And the only one I've ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. They monitor your personal and financial info, even your home title, and take over the work if you become a victim. It's the most thorough and affordable plan out there. I even have it for my family and our entire team. Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John DeLoney. Give us a call, 888-255225. Kelly's up next in Salt Lake City. Kelly, welcome to the Ramsey Show. How can John and I help?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. My husband and I started a business here just the end of last year, and we were making pretty good money, but it's not quite enough to make ends meet. And at this point, we've put pretty much into it. And it has the potential, but we're just trying to figure out some more ways to bring money into the business to try to increase that to make ends meet.

[George Camel]

What kind of business?

[Caller]

It's an indoor baseball training facility.

[George Camel]

Okay, and how you said you've sunk everything into it. What does that mean?

[Caller]

Pretty much we started completely debt free. We pulled an SBA loan, ended up being about 325. We put. We had a very large chunk of money in the bank when we started. Part of that was going towards our security deposit. The other we kept was about $40,000 in the bank. Now we're to the point where we have about $30,000 in credit card debt. We've used my husband's 401k and our entire Savings is put into it as well. There were some factors that came up that we weren't really expecting for, and that money ended up going towards the business.

[George Camel]

Was the business ever profitable to where you weren't needing to go into debt for it?

[Caller]

Well, I mean. Well, we're not really behind yet on the business. I mean, we. The money that we spent on credit cards and stuff was actually to get the business open and started. We've brought in about 52,000 since we opened December, like mid December. So it's making money. But I mean, our lease payment is 30,000amonth, so we're not making enough.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, you're not making money. What, your lease payment is 30 grand?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What is your. What's your. What's your debt overhead? What have y'all. What have y'all taken?

[Caller]

Well, we don't really have. I mean, the business essentially runs itself and we don't have hardly any overhead. Like, our utility bill is about the highest we pay.

[George Camel]

Well, your debt payments are your biggest.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No. What's your debt payment?

[George Camel]

You said 325 on an SBA loan?

[Caller]

Mm. We actually haven't started. They gave us a six month draw period, so we haven't actually started paying that payment yet. We've been paying the interest on it, which has been about, I think about 2,500. The last one, I think come in, give or take. I'm expecting those to increase now, obviously, since we have used the funds from the loan, so that draw period closes and then we should start seeing the first payment come through.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You don't know what the payment's going to be?

[Caller]

No. Well, we do and we don't. Because when we, when we talk to them, basically they told us it's been. It's been a rough go with them, but basically they told us we have a six month draw period. We only pay interest until then. Obviously, the interest will increase every month as we're spending more, you know, utilizing those funds from bank.

[George Camel]

So is this like a line of credit from the bank up to 325?

[Caller]

No, it was an actual lump sum. Huh.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what else? You said you max your credit cards out. How bad is that?

[Caller]

About 30,000 we had. I mean, well, two of those are personal cards and one is a business card. But all that went towards the business we started with nothing on those cards.

[George Camel]

And when did you start this business?

[Caller]

December 10th.

[George Camel]

We're talking a few months ago.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And so far it's making what, 15k a month?

[Caller]

Last month, I believe we brought in about 18,000amonth prior, about 16. And our first month was a bigger month coming in.

[George Camel]

But Your lease is $30,000.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Camel]

So you're bleeding money every month.

[Caller]

Correct. And we're waiting on our realtor, actually, hopefully today to give us some information on having a tenant come in to part of that space to sublease it out, which we're hoping will help.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but you're not gonna. You're not gonna get 50%, right?

[George Camel]

You need this thing to be making 75 to 100,000.

[Caller]

Well, we. We're not actually paying ourselves out from the business, and we don't really have any overhead. So if we can. If we can make.

[George Camel]

That's the scary part. How are you guys living?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. How do you eat?

[Caller]

Well.

[George Camel]

So you're working for free while going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we were both working right up until we opened the business. I am currently in an IOP OCD treatment program, so I have a couple more weeks of that before I can go back to work. My husband is. I think he's doing interviews today, actually, to take on remote work from our business. While he does that, at the same time, we need to be making about. I mean, we can make ends meet and actually profit on about 45,000amonth.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's no way.

[Caller]

We don't. We don't have. I mean, because we don't have any.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What about your insurance? You have to be insured in case a kid gets hit by a. By a ball or turns his ankle and sues you for the whole thing. What's your insurance?

[Caller]

Our Insurance is about 2,000amonth, I believe. We had to have general, and then we had to have workers comp as well, even though we don't actually have any employees, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so are you never going to.

[Caller]

Take a vacation at this point?

No. I mean, that was the goal. But yeah, at this point, we. Our intentions were to pay ourselves out, obviously from the business, and that didn't work out. And so we've kind of burned through savings up to this point, both being there all day, every day trying to make that successful. And it's to the point now that we're going to have to go back to work and do both at the same time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you, have you sat down? If you haven't, please, like, anytime somebody's in this level of stress, whether it's in their marriage with their. With a new business, there has to be a moment in this chaos when everybody exhales and you and your husband get A whiteboard. And you write down on that whiteboard every single person you owe. And then you also, on that whiteboard, write down every single dollar it costs to run this thing every month. Because right now y'all are robbing Peter to pay Paul. You got money coming in one way. Some of this is borrowed. You got a credit card over here. It just feels like it's everywhere. I don't think, I don't know if you can, you can't see me and George. I don't think you understand how bad this is.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's. We're, we're pretty scared and we, I mean, we don't. It's kind of hard because there's certain bills that we know are coming that we don't know what they are because we haven't seen them yet. Like our, our utility bill, we're estimating probably about 5,000, but we haven't actually seen it yet because our building is a split space. So the other side doesn't have a tenant yet. So the landlord didn't actually even split the utilities until not even 30 days ago. So we don't even know.

[George Camel]

Talk to the landlord and explain what's going on and see how quickly you can get out of this lease because it's going to continue to bleed money for the foreseeable future.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, how, how you're talking about getting 100% more business. How do you, how do you expect to go about doing that? Do you even have enough little league in high school and college players to utilize your facility?

[Caller]

We do, actually, yeah. It's kind of a huge market for it here. And when we started the business, there was nothing, I mean, there was nothing within 30 minutes of us. And we've had a lot of people coming in, at least, I mean, for weather permitting. Obviously that changes things, but I do, I guess with the potential that I've seen and I feel like there's a way to do it, there's got to be another way. I can bring some more money into it. I'm just kind of stumped as to how.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let me tell you this. You have to get to a point where your feelings are very important, but you have to get to a point where you're, you're, you're trafficking only in math, right? Because if you feel you should know how many little league teams are actually fielded in a 30 minute radius of your house, if you haven't already, you should be knocking on the coaches doors of the middle school teams, the high school teams, the junior college teams, university Teams giving them special deals, going 24, 7. I mean, if you're not knocking on every single door of every coach over and over and giving them coupons and I mean, that's the only way you can survive. And if you haven't done that, then maybe you've got a shot. But the fact that you don't know, I mean, you guys are just like, no, it's a big market. Like, man, you need to know how, how many little league players are in your area? Right?

[Caller]

Yeah. When we did our projections for the business, in order to qualify for the SBA loan, we had to have an entire, I mean, I had to have stacks of paperwork detailing exactly what's in our area, exactly how many kids, exactly how many teeth. I don't have it sitting in front of me right now, but we do have all that detailed out. My husband's been coaching for years, so he actually has a lot of personal relationships with high schools, you know, the leagues, everything. So he's, he's reaching out to all those people as well.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, but here's the thing. If he is, there may become a moment that y'all realize you're over your head and it's not going to work. My hope here is that there's a hundred percent more people that y'all haven't reached out to yet.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Then you've got a shot.

[Caller]

If there's not, what, what does that look like? As far as exiting a business? It's not profitable.

[George Camel]

You need to sell all the assets you can on the equipment, get out of the lease with as little damage as possible, and then go get full time jobs, both making six figures and clean up the debt of the failed business.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, and maybe, maybe reach out to software and so you have softball. Like if there's an equally large softball market in your area too, maybe that's a chance. But yeah, otherwise you're selling assets and you're just going to go beg to the owner of this building. Hopefully your lease isn't a five year lease or something, but yeah, this is in a really gnarly way. We all need to sit down with a whiteboard and be very honest about how much you owe.

[Caller]

You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family. Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial documents are as organized as the rest of your house. Well, good news, Knockbox, that's N O K box, as in next of kin box, is a complete system that helps you be sure that you leave happy memories, not a mess when you Pass away. Knockbox is a simple way to organize important paper and digital documents, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, accounts and other personal history in one manageable place. Your family will feel your love in every detail you take care of. So start taking care of [e-mail] Ramsey a well organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox.com Ramsey.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John DeLoney and we have a special guest guest for this segment on the debt free stage we have Joanda. How you doing?

[Joanda]

I'm doing pretty good.

[George Camel]

Thanks for coming to celebrate with us for a debt free scream.

[Joanda]

My pleasure.

[George Camel]

Where are you from?

[Joanda]

Really excited to be here from Philadelphia.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where you're born and raised. Can we say that with a playground you spent most of your days?

[George Camel]

You could say, yes, she hates you now, but you can say it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

John, that's fantastic.

[George Camel]

I love it. Okay, how much debt did you pay off?

[Joanda]

$86,613.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[George Camel]

How long did that take?

[Joanda]

About 48 months.

[George Camel]

Wow. And what was your range of income during that time?

[Joanda]

Started around 70 up to about 84.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Awesome.

[George Camel]

And what do you do for work?

[Joanda]

I'm a construction manager. I work for general contractor and just help with our teams there and we build multi family projects.

[George Camel]

Very cool. And what was this 86,000 in debt?

[Joanda]

So 14,000 was a car loan, 4,000 was unemployment repayment, which was interesting and unexpected. Another unexpected thing was 4,000 of local taxes, like city taxes that wasn't coming out of my checks and I had.

[George Camel]

To pay it some back taxes.

[Joanda]

Yeah, that wasn't fun. And 63,000, about 64,000 was student loans.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, tell me about this repaying unemployment. I've never heard that.

[Joanda]

So in 2020, I wasn't working like most people when I filed for unemployment. And, and I didn't think that I applied, but a few people encouraged me to file and I did. And they said, hey, we'll send you this much money every month. And then about 16 months later, they sent me an email and said, hey, all that money we gave you, you actually weren't eligible for it. We need you to pay it back.

[George Camel]

Oh, wow.

[Joanda]

Very unexpected. But fortunately I didn't take a lot and I got it paid off pretty quickly.

[George Camel]

Wow. And what were the student loans about? What you, what was the degree?

[Joanda]

So I got a bachelor's in urban planning and a master's in construction management.

[George Camel]

Awesome. And you're putting it to good use now.

[Joanda]

I am.

[George Camel]

Okay. So 48 months you ago, you look down, you're like, okay, I owe a car lender some money. I owe the government a bunch of money. I got the student loan over here. What made you get on this Ramsey plan and go, I'm going to clean this up fast?

[Joanda]

So I actually took Financial Peace University when I started grad school in 2013, and I got rid of all of my credit cards, closed those out, and was like, okay, the college loans, when I graduate, I'll deal with them then. So I started off well, but I got distracted just trying to do other things or trying to figure out another way to get out of debt. And then four years ago, I was like, you know what? It's just gonna to take the time that it takes. And I just decided to get after it. I got an accountability partners or a Ramsey, I believe, financial coach.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Joanda]

Yep. And we've been meeting ever since then, twice a month. And it's. It's been really helpful to have someone to talk through financial decisions with.

[George Camel]

Wow. And so you just made a decision. There was no, like, rock bottom thing that happened. You just decided, I'm done with this. What am I doing? I work too hard to be this broke.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, hold on. I'm fascinated by something. One of the hardest things when it comes to diet, nutrition, money, school, all that is to look in the mirror and say, what I'm doing is not working right. Will you talk somebody through who's listening, who's literally living in this moment? They've got a plan here, and they're moving this over here and they're trying. How did you make that turn? Because that if America as a whole and as individuals could get that moment, what we're doing is not working right. We got to do something else. Tell people how you came to that conclusion.

[Joanda]

Well, I was. I was really trying to do entrepreneurial things because I was like, well, if I had a side hustle, I could do this a lot faster. And the side hustles just weren't panning out. And I was like, you know what? I need to start saving for retirement, and I want to do that sometime in the near future. So I. I kind of, kind of cut my losses and said, I guess it's just going to be the income that I have and just kind of got after it and was chipping away at it. And in the past year, just got really aggressive and was like, I'm just, I'm done.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't say this lightly. You are a modern American hero.

[Joanda]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Seriously, because are You. You're. Are you not married just by yourself?

[Joanda]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so you had to look. You didn't have anyone to blame inside your own house. Right. You had to look in the mirror and say, this is me. I'm going to make a turn right now. And. And then. And then you did even braver thing. I'm not. I haven't been able to pull this off. I'm going to call a coach. Right. And people often say, like, well, I don't want to pay a coach when I'm in debt. But you hired a coach. They've been walking with you, and it's clearly paid off for you, and you just kept going. What lit your fire a year ago that you said, all right, I'm hitting the gas even harder?

[Joanda]

I think so. I'm really adventurous and I love to travel. So I think it was just putting off travel, putting off driving past restaurants and. But really, I think it's. It's just been like wanting to save for retirement. Retirement, wanting to buy a house and those things and just feeling like I'm in delay. Like I've been so delayed and just was just ready to be done and get that part of behind me and stop paying interest and start earning interest.

[George Camel]

Wow, that takes a lot of emotional maturity to put down the instant gratification and go, you know what? I'm going to make some sacrifices now so I can have the best later on. And the future is looking bright for Jawand, I'll tell you that much right now. What was the hardest part of the journey for you over those four years?

[Joanda]

I think just feeling like I'm in delay, like, that I'm so far behind. And I just wish that I knew when I was in college how much of an impact those college loans would have on me.

[George Camel]

Was it a lot of regret and guilt and even some shame?

[Joanda]

I don't know if I would say that. Maybe just disappointment for not paying more attention. It's like you're smarter than this. Like, you're smart.

[George Camel]

Just kind of beat yourself up a little bit.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Well, here you are now. I mean, you got a lot of life ahead of you. Four years of sacrifice. Was it worth it?

[Joanda]

It was so worth it.

[George Camel]

How do you describe the feeling to someone who is where you were? They're sitting with a big pile of debt, and now you're debt free. How would you say this is what it's going to feel like if you're willing to make that sacrifice?

[Joanda]

I would say it feels like the, like, opportunities exponentially. More opportunities have opened up to you and that you just have some emotional peace that like you can't really put into words until you get here. And yeah, it just, it just feels like there's so many opportunities that I can take advantage of and, and that's really exciting.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How, how old are you?

[Joanda]

I'm 38.

[Dr. John Deloney]

38. And so you've got to back two thirds of your life. We're gonna, we're gonna think positively here. The back 2/3 of your life. What are you going to do now that you don't owe anybody anything?

[Joanda]

So I am, I'm almost done with baby step three. I'm going to start saving for a house and, and plan to be a part of that. 30% of people that don't get a mortgage. And because I'm a construction manager, I think I can do that. I think I'm savvy enough to make it happen and just going to save like it depends on me and pray like it depends on God.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sometimes people are on the debt free stage and they actually paid their debt off a while ago. Have you had a month or two or a few months where your paycheck deposits and it only goes into wherever you want it to go?

[Joanda]

Yeah, I actually set up for my direct deposit to be some for just living and everything else is going to my high yield savings account just for baby step three. So it's been. I've had about maybe one and a half months.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tell somebody what it feels like when that check deposits.

[Joanda]

Oh, it's exciting. It's just better that it's automated. Like I don't have to think about it. I don't have to accidentally not touch it. It just goes to my high yield savings account and I look at it.

[George Camel]

And I'm just like, you're building for your future. Some lenders, yeah, you're done paying for the past.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Congratulations, man. It's amazing.

[George Camel]

We've got a parting gift for you. We got two every dollar one year subscriptions for you. You can use that. You can pass it on to someone else who maybe encouraged you, maybe doubted you. You know, give it to the haters and say, hey, this is for you. Check this out. So we're so proud of you. We're happy to celebrate with you. Let's get to the moment we've all been waiting for. It's Joanda from Philadelphia. $86,613 and not a a penny less. Car loan, unemployment, back taxes, city back taxes, the student loans, it's all gone in 48 months. Making 70 to 84k. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Joanda]

Three, two, one. I'm debt free.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. See, that one came from your soul. That was cathartic from her chest, man.

[George Camel]

Oh, my goodness. If that doesn't light you up, that's a. And put a little fire in your belly, you're not living. Check your pulse, man. Joanda is an inspiration. This is the Ramsay Show. I hate to admit this, but I don't always eat right. I know I need to eat more fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just have to pound some chips because they taste so good. That's why I love my Field of Greens. It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time. And each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens was doctor selected for a specific health benefit. Heart, lungs, kidney, metabolism, even healthy weight. And, folks, I ain't getting any younger. It's super easy to mix with water. And here is the great part of it. I thought it might taste like grass.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But it tastes great.

[George Camel]

And only Field of Greens makes this promise. Your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. So go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey to save 20% on your first order. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. George campbell here with Dr. John Deloney. The number to call is 888-255-225. John, I. I don't like to hit the news very often, but there's one thing that applies to people's personal finances. If I can connect some dots for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You, just one thing. You ready?

[George Camel]

Just one.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's like a thousand things impacting people.

[George Camel]

So much we could talk about, but this is the 1. Trump's IRS layoffs have some people asking, why bother filing taxes this year? So a couple of weeks ago, the Trump administration, they started to lay off almost 7,000 IRS employees. Commerce Secretary told the media that Trump's goal is to, quote, abolish the irs. This has a lot of people confused where they should hold off on filing. Look, is this a government shutdown? We're like, we're good. We don't have to file. Yay. Uh, some people are taking this as an opportunity to just ignore it and not file. So whether you agree with, believe, or put stock into anything, politicians say it takes a long time for anything big to happen in the government. So layoffs do not mean a shutdown. The IRS is still very much alive and well ready to make sure you file your return. So if the IRS were being closed, Trump would let us know. You still need to file like usual, and the earlier the better. In fact, John and I were just talking about how we got ours done. We like to get ours done as soon as possible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Soon as possible. Yeah.

[George Camel]

So that we know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

I just want to know, am I going to owe, Am I going to get a refund? Let me not let it live in my head. Rent free until April 15th.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly. And listen, we have to say this as clear as day. You have to file your taxes this year. Despite what all the rhetoric. Despite what, like, oh, no, you don't understand. You have to file taxes or you'll be in violation of the law. Period.

[George Camel]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Pay your taxes now.

[George Camel]

Here's what could happen. The layoffs will likely slow down refund processing times, support phone lines, and the longer you wait, the worse it could get if you do need help down the line. So tax collectors are still on the job. They're not going to stop just because of the layoffs. And the IRS penalty for you not paying your taxes is a half a percent of your tax bill every single month. Month. The failure to file penalty is 5% of your tax bill per month. And it spikes to 25% after five months.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It compounds on you. That is.

[George Camel]

Yikes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Pay your taxes, people. So I don't like it. George doesn't like it.

[George Camel]

No, none of us like it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But also it's. It's what we have to do. And so we pay our. We pay our taxes, we move on with our life.

[George Camel]

That's it. And you won't go to jail for not paying your tax bill all at once, but you could go to jail for not filing at all. So that's the key, is you gotta file regardless of if you can pay it all up front or not. You can work on a payment plan. You can get that extended, but you got to file by April 15th. So if you're holding off on filing because you may not be able to afford your tax bill, you have options. File as soon as possible. Even if you can't pay, pay as much as you can over the next month. If paying is going to take longer than a month, you can set up that payment plan and then make adjustments like you were doing. The debt snowball to cut everything in your budget so you don't have this problem again. And we tell people, IRS debt goes to the very top of the debt snowball. It's the first thing you pay because they can destroy your life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And let me say this one more time. Pay your taxes. Pay your taxes. And this isn't just us preaching at you. George and I have already done our family's taxes. We've already submitted them. So it's not just like a fun little game we're playing. People on the Internet are like, don't pay your taxes. Those people are paying their taxes, y'all.

[George Camel]

100.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Everybody's paying their taxes. Just get over it. Let's get it done and move on with your life.

[George Camel]

And we can help you make it easy. If you have a simple tax situation. You haven't had any major life changes, big investments. Check out Ramsey Smart Tax. This is tax software that Dave and the Ramsey team approves of. We've partnered with Tax Layer on this. It's powered by Tax Layer. They've been in the business for 50 years. This is 100% accurate tax software. Saves you up to 80% compared to the other guys. So get started. Ramsey Solutions.com smart tax. And get it out of your life. Stop letting it live in your head rent free.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, can I say this? I wanted to know. So before I even submitted them, I ran mine through.

[George Camel]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ramsey Smart Tax. It almost nailed it. It was. It was amazing how good this product was to the point that it made me reconsider next year. Like, if I might just do it again on my own.

[George Camel]

Do I need a pro? Because I was able to do it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I used to use Ramsey Smart Tax. And then things got more complicated, and it even dealt with my complication. My wife has a small business. We went right through it. And, dude, it was.

[George Camel]

If it can handle the chaos of John Maloney's life, you're gonna be fine, guys. You're gonna be fine.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But it's. It's. It's very impressive in how simple it makes everything.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And very good.

[George Camel]

Ramseysolutions.com Smart tax. All right, let's go to Renee in Akron, Ohio. What's going on? Renee, hi.

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Caller]

I'm currently on baby steps four through six. You might tell me to go back to three after this, but I feel like after 20 years, God's leading me to leave corporate America and go into vocational ministry. My heart's been there for years, and now that I'm debt free, I don't. There's not really anything holding me back other than my goal of, like, making it to baby step seven. Is that me being selfish? Is that me being smart? And I was just interested in your insight.

[George Camel]

Sure. So you have a mortgage right now?

[Caller]

Yes. It's about 559amonth. So I'm debt free except for my house.

[George Camel]

Wow, 559. What a steal.

[Caller]

Yeah. That's amazing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

$500?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[George Camel]

Most people's car payments are higher than that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Way to go on that mortgage, man. Half of Americans. You made some good decisions sneeze while they were driving down the road.

[George Camel]

Listen well, everyone's mad at you right now. You've lost all empathy with the people listening. Forget this lady.

[Caller]

You should look at rent. You should look at rent prices in acronym.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have a job on the table right now that you're weighing or is this philosophical for you?

[Caller]

It's more philosophical. I'm like two years sober and so just lately I've really been more passionate about helping like teens with their recovery, you know, and making a lifestyle like vocational decision that not going to give me the income I have now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have. So George will get into the numbers here, but let me ask you a few questions. Do you have the training to be like a teenage addiction counselor?

[Caller]

Not like I'm not psychology.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Okay. What would keep you from keeping your job and also running meetings in the morning or running meetings in the evening? You'd be tired, of course. But what would keep you from doing that? And the reason I'm pressing on you is some of the greatest, what I would call vocational ministers have full time jobs. Even Paul made tents. Right. And so people always say, like, think like in, in Georgia. And I hear this all the time. I need to quit everything to go be a musician. I need to quit everything to go be a comedian. I need to quit everything to go be a minister. And I always want to hold off and say, could you begin to work your way into this and see, is this the life I want to live? Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's a good question. There's not. I'm a CR leader now.

[George Camel]

What are you making with your corporate job?

[Caller]

95.

[George Camel]

And how much do you have in savings?

[Caller]

11,000.

[George Camel]

And what are your monthly bills to cover all your expenses?

[Caller]

I think about like at about 3,000 when I include like my insurance and stuff that comes out of my paycheck.

[George Camel]

Okay, so a six month emergency fund, let's call it 20,000 to round up to be conservative.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

That's what you'd be looking at for a six month emergency fund. And you, you could take your income down and still survive. But again, you have other goals. I want you to retire with dignity when you want to and not work because you have to. I want you to be able to pay off that house one day. And so cutting your income down to, like, a ministry income of $30,000. I don't like that plan. I'm with John on that. That I would keep your full time job or take another job full time that still offers flexibility for you to do this vocational ministry part time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I think that's a great question. Are you running towards, like, a life of full time, celebrate recovery, where you're working with people and you're sitting side by side with them in a psychology standpoint or ministry standpoint, or. Let's just be honest. Do you hate your corporate job? Because those are two different things.

[Caller]

I don't hate intellectually. I do not hate my corporate job.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

My heart, like, corporate, like, ethics is a little bit of. Not like. Not like I work at a shady place, because I don't. But there's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's.

[Caller]

There's kind of like that. It's just weird.

[Joanda]

Yeah.

[Caller]

It's not where. Yeah, I got you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I gotcha. What George and I both know is one of the chief stressors in somebody's life is financial stress. And for somebody who's two years sober, I would hate to say, yep, let's take a $60,000 pay cut or a $50,000 pay cut with 10,000 bucks in the bank. Because George and I both know, man, that kind of stress just leans on you in a tough way. I would love to see you, no pun intended, baby. Step your way into increasing your role in cr, Increasing your role in AA meetings, increasing your role volunteering in local organizations, and begin to see, is this the life I want to live long term?

[George Camel]

Love it. Hey, Renee, we're gonna send you a copy of our friend Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work youk're Wired to do has a Get Clear career assessment in there. I think that's gonna really help you create some clarity around this next chapter of your life. We're excited for you. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows.

[Joanda]

Student loan debt is a problem, it's me.

[George Camel]

My husband and I had $280,000 of it, but we were able to dig.

[Joanda]

Ourselves out, and you can, too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution. Now, I recommend contacting my friends at.

[George Camel]

Laurel Road today through their online application.

[Joanda]

You can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes. And if you have a more complex.

[George Camel]

Situation, you can schedule 30 minutes to talk to an actual human being.

[Joanda]

Thank goodness Laurel Road makes it simple.

[George Camel]

There are no fees involved and you could save thousands over the life of your loan.

[Joanda]

Remember, you should only refinance if it makes sense in your situation.

[George Camel]

So if you're looking for a low rate or a shorter term so that.

[Joanda]

You can pay off these student loans fast, talk to my friends at Laurel Road about their competitive interest rates and.

[George Camel]

How you could actually get a lower.

[Joanda]

Rate by signing up for autopay. Listen, nobody's coming to save you from student loan debt. If you want them gone, you can't mess around.

[George Camel]

Go to LaurelRoad.com Ramsey to find out.

[Joanda]

More about student loan refinancing.

[George Camel]

Again, that's LaurelRoad.com Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. Live from Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell joined by the host of the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Dr. John DeLoney. Open phones to 888-255-225. Jason is going to kick us off this hour in Columbus, Ohio. What's going on, Jason?

[Caller]

Hi, George, Dr. John, it's a pleasure to get to talk to you both.

[George Camel]

You as well. What's going on?

[Caller]

So basically I, over the last month or so have been kind of undergoing a bunch of anxiety and stress regarding my debt and everything. And, and I'm after meeting with multiple people. They're all saying I should file for bankruptcy, but I'm not sure if I should.

[George Camel]

Who are you usually?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, usually multiple people are wrong. What's going on?

[Caller]

I mean, it's a combination of things just starting back from a few years ago and the debts have just been piling up, the minimum payments been piling up and I feel like I can't breathe and I can hardly sleep at night sometimes because it's just so step.

[Dr. John Deloney]

One and I've been there, brother. I've been there. I've been there. Where your body, you feel like you're being betrayed by your own body, right? Like it's just you're anxious all the time. The first path through is like no holds barred. Choose reality. So be very specific. How much do you owe and to whom?

[Caller]

Combined it all is about closer to 60,000. Counting my truck and the credit cards, the personal loans, everything. Okay, 35, 35 of it is the truck and then the rest is a mix of credit cards, personal loans and lines of credit.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, I Can tell you right now, no, bankruptcy is not your solution here, okay? Put that off the table. Take that out of your head, okay? And let that give you some peace. Now, how much money do you make.

[Caller]

Last gross last year I made 65.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

The good news is you can sell that truck. You might be a little underwater on it. Do you know how much it's worth if you sold it private party?

[Caller]

I don't. Through kbb? I haven't looked.

[George Camel]

That's going to be part of your homework. You got to figure out exactly what it's worth. If you sold it for top dollar and you owe 35. So there's going to be. There may be a gap. Let's say it's only worth 30, you would need to come up with the extra $5,000 either through saving it up or going to your local credit union and getting a loan for the difference and then getting enough to get a little beater car on top of that. Is this your only vehicle?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay, so that's the good news. Think about that. I could free you today by selling that car down to $25,000 total in debt. Can you breathe a little bit easier now?

[Caller]

A little bit.

[George Camel]

And now we go. Okay, What's a plan to pay off 25 grand? Well, easy math says if I was able to throw two grand a month, this debt, it would be gone in a year, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And how much do you make every month? What's your take home pay?

[Caller]

So I work on base salary or base hourly and commission. So it varies, but typical month is usually between 3,500 and 4,000.

[George Camel]

Great. So let's say 4,000. Are you doing any investing right now at all? Is there a company 401k? Is there a match or anything you're doing?

[Caller]

The company does offer a 401k with 100% match, but I'm not contributing.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you make 4k. Now we look at, okay, what are your monthly expenses? What does it take for you to live? We're not eating out. We're not doing anything exciting. No frivolous spending here. But how much does it need? Do you need to live, pay rent, bills, food, all that?

[Caller]

Probably at the most 2,000.

[George Camel]

Jason, do you see what we just unlocked?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Done.

[George Camel]

I just told you if you put 2,000amonth toward your debt, you're debt free in a year. And you said you make four, your expenses are two. That looks oddly like 2,000 left over to throw at the debt, doesn't it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

They wouldn't even finish the bankruptcy paperwork.

[George Camel]

In that time they wouldn't even let you file. They'd say, dude, you don't even, this isn't even a problem. You're going to be done with this debt in a year. And so then you do the debt snowball method where you pay off the smallest balance first. So what is the smallest balance you currently owe?

[Caller]

Smallest one is 5,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so two and a half months, you're done with that first debt. Now we're down to 20,000 and we free up that payment. What's the payment on that $5,000 debt?

[Caller]

I believe it's close to 300 minimum.

[George Camel]

So now you've freed up another 300 to throw out your next smallest debt. Do you see the momentum that gets built with the debt snowball?

[Caller]

Yeah, I do.

[George Camel]

So I just showed you the math and again, there's two parts to this. There's all the emotion. There's a psychological aspect that John can talk to you about. But I just showed you on paper how easy this is to fix while all your other friends said, dude, it's too bad you just gotta file bankruptcy, man, that's America. What can you do? And I just showed Jason how to take control of his life with the guy in the mirror.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tell me about this job.

[Caller]

It's a sales job, working in retail. You know, a lot of customer facing interaction and stress on a daily basis.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I don't want to be overdramatic here, but your whole cadence, your whole tone changes when you talk about your job. And I wonder if you're just not in the right job.

[Caller]

If you wonder the same thing. It's just my concern has always been, has been the money in that, like trying to stay afloat.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I gotcha.

[Caller]

Because in an ideal world, like.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When.

[Caller]

During COVID I actually had went to school to be a software engineer and, and then when I graduated, the tech market crashed.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yep.

[Caller]

And nobody was hiring. I couldn't get a job anywhere.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, but what did you learn to do when you were coding? You learned to solve problems, you learned to work independently, you learned to go through very fine details and you learned to talk to knuckleheads like me, who are these big artist dreamers who are like, I just want it to like feel like this. And you're like, okay. And you took a bunch of hieroglyphic looking things in Ruby on Rails and you made it like, dude, you're literally limitless with that degree. Not just because from coding, software engineering, but because you know how to take a project from start to finish and somehow some Way you've got your body is telling you that you're not safe. And sometimes that's because we're in the wrong place. And I would love to see you, bro, right now. I would love to see you make 30 grand a year throwing boxes half the day and make 30 grand a year working at Starbucks the other half the day and make that same 60 grand and you're on your feet and you're running around, but you're not having to meet sales quotas and stuff like that. That's keeping you up at night while you then look for a job that might be a product manager that might be able to see some of these projects from start to finish. That job as hot as could be right now. You're an engineer, maybe not in software. Maybe I can do that now. Okay, cool. Where am I going to take that engineering skill set and go make somebody else's life? Some customer's life, some business's life better. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yeah, I do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's an underlying anxiousness. Your body doesn't believe that you're safe. But when it comes to the money part, brother, it's a year of obnoxious hard work. Not asking your friends to come over and bring whatever peanut butter and jelly sandwiches they got. Because that's what we're going to do. We're going to play Dungeons and Dragons or whatever weird stuff you're into and we're just going to. We're going to do this for a year and then we're going to call it. And then I'm going to be all paid up. I'm not going to have a $35,000 truck that sits in my driveway losing money every second and makes me not able to breathe. It's not going to do it. I'm going to have a used Camry. It's going to get me from A to B. But here's the deal, man. We believe in you. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Building a Non Anxious Life for free. It's going to be my gift to you. I'm also going to send you Financial Peace University. I want you to watch this, the videos, and it's going to give you peace because it's going to give you an actual plan. Okay, brother? Hang on the line here. We'll get you hooked up.

[George Camel]

Bankruptcy is not in your future, my friend. Only. Only financial freedom and debt freedom.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Stop listening to other people, man.

[Caller]

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions? Possibly, Yeah, I Think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why, why is that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non profit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[Caller]

Yes, well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience. And they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I'm not kidding, it took, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience and I, I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with [e-mail] or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33, 000 ATMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[Caller]

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. That's F A I R W I n d s.org Ramsey Listen, I know.

[George Camel]

A lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes, but thankfully you don't have to dread filing. When you've got Ramsey Smart tax, it comes packed with everything you need to file online before the big deadline. That means all major federal forms and deductions are covered with no hidden fees. Plus, with Ramsey SmartTax, you can save up to 70% compared to other tax software out there. It's a no brainer. Just go to ramseysolutions.com smarttax and see how simple tax filing can be. That's ramseysolutions.com smarttax welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John DeLoney. If you're not sure if you're on track with the baby steps, take a quick quiz that can help you check your progress and you'll get a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes of this episode, click on the link that's titled are you on track with the baby steps? And complete the quiz. Molly's up next in Macon, Georgia. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, Molly. How can I help?

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call. I am have a question about giving. The Lord recently blessed us with a an inheritance and it stopped. And we don't need it to live on, so we are able to just invest it and give it. And it was a big surprise. And I've never had this happen before, so I haven't. I'm wondering, okay, first of all, in being a good steward of this and thinking about giving it, do we tithe the stock, do we just invest it and then what we earn off of it, we give out of that? I'm not sure how to do that.

[George Camel]

You're such a sweet, wonderful person. I'm glad that you were the one gifted with this money. Can I ask where it came from?

[Caller]

My father passed away recently.

[George Camel]

Oh my goodness. And this was part of your inheritance? Was there anything else?

[Caller]

No, because everything, everything went to my mother. But he left this to me.

[George Camel]

Wow.

[Caller]

And, and my parents taught us live within your means, save. And they taught us that we should invest. They didn't teach us how to invest. So I'm working with somebody to help me know how to do this. And, and so I need some advice just because I want to be a very good steward of this gift. And so as I was thinking through that, I wanted to have many advisors who could with many advisors, our plans will succeed. I want to know.

Should I go.

Ahead and just give 10% of that stock away or is it better to just invest it? And then as I don't even know how to like how it would Come back to me.

[George Camel]

You're right. There's a lot of ways. There's a lot of ways to do this. And truthfully, this is going to be up to the matter of the heart. And so I don't want you to feel like there's a right way. And if I don't do it this way, I'm not being wise. The fact you're even asking this question tells me that you're already a generous person.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can we, like. Let's pull that apart real quick, Molly. I'm going to talk to George, but I'm going to do it on your behalf. Okay?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

George is smarter than me and some of this stuff. So, George, I'm thinking you could sell the stock and take $850,000 in cash minus whatever the. Yeah.

[George Camel]

I assume you're gonna have capital gains taxes on this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Correct?

[George Camel]

Right.

[Caller]

Well, as my accountant and my financial advisor said that it's only going to be. I would only have capital gains on the amount between the date of transfer to me.

[George Camel]

Perfect. Step up.

[Caller]

And because. Yes, the step. Because when I received it, I thought, oh, no, all my eggs are in one basket. They would say, don't do that. My accountant said, don't do that. My personal.

[George Camel]

Yes, you can sell it all the day of transfer and essentially have no taxes.

[Caller]

So I sold 75% of it, and it's just in a money market fund right now waiting for me to figure it out. And the other part, the 25% I kept in case I was going to give. Give stock, like, transfer stock, because they had said. Several people have said to me, you don't want to sell it and give what you gave. Gave off of the earnings of that.

Or what you sold.

You want to give the stock, transfer the stock.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But, I mean, you'd just be putting somebody else in that same situation, like some church or educational institution or wherever. You sold it. Yeah, I don't have to convert it.

[George Camel]

I think that's over. Complicating it. What I would do, Molly, if I was in your shoes and I was gifted this money, I would just go, okay, I'm going to tithe off my first fruits. And so the income that I actually take home, I'm going to tithe off of that. And so if the stock is growing and you're not actually selling it and making money from wherever it's invested, that's not going to count as income that year. You see what I'm saying? But whenever you do sell it, I would take 10% of whatever that is. And tithe that.

[Caller]

Okay, so at this point, I sold $646,000 worth. And that's what's in the money market.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Caller]

And then the other stock. So you're saying tithe off of that and. And then.

[George Camel]

Well, is that going to count as income for you this year?

[Caller]

Only 12,000 is counted as income.

[George Camel]

Okay. And so that's what I'm talking about here is you just. There's basically an asset here that was invested. It hasn't really turned into income for you. You're just basically converting it into a different asset.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And so what I would do if I was in your shoes is just tithe 10% of your income. You can also be more generous than that. It's up to you. You could give all of this to charity today. But if you're just saying, hey, what's the right way to tithe out of this? From a biblical perspective, the way we see it at Ramsey is it's first fruits. It's based on what you actually took home, you know, gross or net. You know, Dave always makes jokes about that it's up. That's really a matter of the heart. If you made a hundred thousand gross this year, you can tithe $10,000 to your local church and even give above and beyond that to whatever organizations or causes you so choose.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or after taxes, if you feel like tithing the $80,000 you actually brought home and you pay 8,000 like it's. Everybody's going to be different there.

[Caller]

Okay. Because at this point, nothing is in my bank account.

[George Camel]

Exactly right.

[Caller]

And that's what we're saying brokerage firm.

Nothing has come to me. I have got nothing. It's all sitting in the brokerage.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But so. So if it was me. And again, take this with a grain of salt, right? If it was me, I would cash out that 850 and take $85,000 and tithe it to my church. And then my wife and I would decide, do we want to do something else with it? Do we want to help a kid go to college? Do we want to, like what, you know, whatever. And do you want to give to my daughter's little school or whatever we want to do with it. And then the rest of it I would put into some sort of retirement vehicle.

[George Camel]

Yeah. If you just invested this money, and I'll just give you a quick example, $750,000. You never add another dollar to that. You just let it grow. How old are you, Molly?

[Caller]

55.

[George Camel]

55. Let's say even for the next 10 years, you just park that money in a good growth stock mutual fund or even in a taxable brokerage account in an index fund, and it made, let's say, 9% on average over those 10 years, it would turn into 1.77 million. So 750 gained another million without you doing anything. So that's the power of compound growth at this level, in this scale. And so you can really create some sizable wealth to do even more good in your community and in the world with that money. And it sounds like you're going to do that. And so I love that you're thinking about how do I manage this? Well, do you trust the financial advisor you're working with?

[Caller]

I do.

[George Camel]

Good. They're helping explain all of this to you. They're educating you. They've got the heart of a teacher.

[Caller]

Yes.

He sends an awful lot of time and he says that I ask him questions nobody's asked. I love it explains things to me.

[George Camel]

You got to challenge him. Yeah. Make him, make him think outside the box. That's how I would look at it, Molly. And again, there's no, I don't think there's a wrong way to do this. The way I look at it is whatever income I took in that year, if I want to tithe the 10% off of that, that's what I'm doing. But you don't need to look at it as one giant pile. And I've got to do this today. You can invest it and based on what you actually to convert to income, tithe off of that. Or you can do what John said and just go, you know what, I'm just going to take 85k off the top of this and that's all. I'm going to tithe off of that. And the rest is going to be investments.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then next year, if I made an additional ten grand, I would take that on top of my salary that I made for that year and my wife and I would tithe 10% off top of that.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And that way, that way for me, in my house, it would just, it would be a, it would be in perpetuity. Right. It would just be. It would continue to be a blessing further and further. Yeah.

[George Camel]

You wouldn't even touch the principle of that money. It's all going to just be growth at that point, which is incredible. And you said you don't need this money. Your sounds like you're doing really well financially yourself.

[Caller]

Well, I mean, we have no debt. We're paying cash for my son's College and we have a six month and I'm getting my own pension.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Amazing.

[Caller]

From retirement. And I have a little other in my 403B so. No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So can I tell you something, Molly? What, what was your dad's name?

[Caller]

Rick.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's real, real proud of you.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If I passed on, I left my daughter 850 grand and these were the questions she was asking, I would know that I raised her right and that she's going to be a good steward of this money. You're doing a good job.

[George Camel]

And guess what? I can tell you're going to do the same for your kid. And I hope they do the same for their kid. And that's generational wealth. A good man or woman leaves an inheritance to his children's children. You're an inspiration, Molly. Thank you so much for the call and trusting us with this. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys, good news. Presale is on now for my new book, build a business you love. If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard. That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store pre order today.

[George Camel]

I'm George Campbell joined by Dr. John Deloney. This is the Ramsey Show. Our Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by why refi? With why Refi, you can take control of your defaulted private student loans with a plan that works with your monthly budget. Visit yrefi.comramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right. Today's question comes from Paige in Ohio. And I, I just love this question. My husband and I are new listeners and began the baby steps late last year. I'm struggling to cope with the shame and guilt that I feel over our financial message. It feels insurmountable. Even though we are working hard and seeing progress. I cry every day and it feels like we're never going to get there. How do I celebrate the small wins when we mark a debt off our snowball in the midst of being intense to get out of the rest of the debt? This is, I feel like this is like a really honest question.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And we don't talk about it a lot here. When we tell people just like crush it, go Kill it. Go, you know, like, murder it.

[George Camel]

There's another side to that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's another side which is you sitting at your kitchen table. You just drew a line through the 700 credit card. You finally got it. And your kid needs braces and your other kidney shoes. And the next payment is fifteen hundred dollars. That's the next credit card. And you put two hundred towards it. And you just sit there at night, the kids are asleep, your partner's in bed, and you just have your face in your hands. And what I would tell you, Paige, is crying is not a bad thing. Cry. It's okay. And if you find yourself unable to move and unable to take that next step, you need to call somebody. And if y'all have guilt because y'all hid money from each other, you just lived rambunctiously. Now you're having to tell your kids, no, that's not a bad thing. And if you're ashamed of some of the things that you've bought, if you'll have a bunch of ATVs and a boat and a. And a, you know, in a jet ski, but also a hundred thousand dollars in student loan, like, shame's not a bad thing. It's when it becomes, as they say, toxic. When it becomes where you can't move and you can't hear anything positive or good. So here's the deal. Feel those feelings and just keep doing the next right thing. And that is where the magic is. And what's going to happen is you're going to look up in seven months and you're going to have paid off several of these little, tinier credit cards, or you're going to plow through one big one and you're not even going to realize it, but you're going to find yourself standing an inch or two taller. So sometimes it takes a while for our feelings to catch up with doing the next right thing. And, George, I, for one man, cry. That's your body getting it out. Cry. It's the only time I'm concerned, is when I cry and I can't do anything. Or I find myself going back to old, bad habits, sort of frozen. That's right. Or I start buying stuff again to try to make myself feel better. Or I find myself taking another drink and another drink. Or I start skipping my side hustle to watch Netflix. That's when I want you to call somebody. But it feels like we're never going to get there yet, if we're honest, we are getting there. Slowly but surely, we're getting there right so challenge those thoughts. That's the old cbt. Like, challenge those thoughts and see if it's true or not. And then let's just keep doing the next right move, man. But, Paige, this is a common thing at the very beginning where you just look back and go, my gosh, how are we living?

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I've been there. I'm sure you're like, I've been there. And we don't talk about it enough, but this is a very real part of it. And then you just got to go do the next right thing.

[George Camel]

And then having that deep why of like, oh, that's why I'm doing this. Because when you're in the middle of it, you sort of forget, like, why am I running this?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Who.

[George Camel]

Why did I decide to run a marathon? This is. Oh, that's the reason why. And what I found. This works for me. John, this may not. I don't know if this works in your world, but when I find that I'm getting too, like, emotional about something, I try to lean toward the facts and reality. And when I get too into the math and that becomes overwhelming, I try to lean into the emotional side of, here's why I'm doing this. And so that tends to help me not be out of balance on one or the other. And so it may help to go look at the numbers. Look how much debt we've paid off. Let's make the little chain and make it visual, and let's make the thermometer and color it in to show the progress. Because sometimes it is hard to see the forest from the trees when you're in the middle of this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And there's something. There is something about some sort of cheesy project, whether it's drawing the thermometer. Me and my wife hung the. The. The. The what? The. The paper chain in our bedroom. I was like, I want that in the bedroom. I want to see it every night. And I will say this page. And to everybody just getting started on the baby steps, you're finding yourself in March of a new year. You're already exhausted. Like, you haven't been to a restaurant in three months, and it's miserable. And now you're on spring break, and you're not going anywhere. Like, I get it. I get it. You're right where you need to be. Don't go on this. On this adventure, beating yourself up like, you're on. It's only. You're only gonna get so far. If you're choosing to get out of debt because you Hate your former self. Don't do that. Get out of debt because of who you're going to be on the other side of this thing and where you're gonna go being able.

[George Camel]

It's not because you hate yourself. It's because you love yourself enough to see that version.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Go towards something. Don't run from something. I remember, man, he's just a sage Sal to Stefano with the. With the mind pump. Guys, guys. I just love their fitness, guys. But. But I remember him telling me when I was just being. Being honest about working out, and he said, hey, if you go to the gym every day because you think you look disgusting, if you go to the gym every day because this is what you get because you're 10 pounds overweight, you're always going to quit. You're always going to quit because your body can only take hating itself so long.

[George Camel]

Not a great motivator long term.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But if he says, if you get up every day and you're like, dude, I get an hour, I'm worth an hour to where I can just go feel good, he said, you'll do that the rest of your life. And that was such a light bulb for me. I went to the gym because I didn't look like how I looked, not because it makes me a better husband and a dad. And when I made that switch, now it's something I look forward to. It's something I get to do even when I don't want to, versus something I have to do because that's my punishment for the day for being unattractive. Right. Same with your money.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

We got to update the operating system.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's exactly right. We're going towards something, not just continually running with her head over our shoulder.

[George Camel]

That'll preach.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well done, Paige.

[George Camel]

We're cheering you on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Blessings, man.

[George Camel]

All right, Cole is in Cincinnati. Up next on the phone. What's going on, Cole?

[Caller]

Hey. So I had a question. So basically, I'm on data sets 4, 5, and 6, and I have a little bit. So I'm kind of curious. Once I put my 15 into retirement and after I, you know, have my emergency fund and all that, what do I do with my extra savings money? Because I know I don't want to just have it in a savings account.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have Venmo?

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, get it and send it to George. Underscore. I'm just kidding. Don't send him your extra money.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

You said you're in baby steps. 4, 5, 6. So those are done simultaneously. So once you have 15%, they're done in order, but at the same time. So 15%. Boom. We got that going. Next up. Do you have kids?

[Caller]

No, I'm only 20, so.

[George Camel]

Oh, great. So you're going to leapfrog past five. Do you have a mortgage?

[Caller]

Yeah, we just. I just. Just bought a house.

[George Camel]

Awesome. What's left on the mortgage?

[Caller]

172.

[George Camel]

Okay, so here's what you can do. Jump on to ramseysolutions.com and use our mortgage payoff calculator and set a goal of. Hey, man, how cool would it be to have a paid for house in four years? And here's what it looks like. If we make an extra payment every month of a thousand bucks that we have. You said leftover. So however much that is that you want to allocate toward the mortgage, let's allocate that money every single month and have a goal to have that home paid off in a certain amount of time.

[Caller]

Yep. I'm already planning to have it paid off in eight years. But outside of that, I still have money left over.

[George Camel]

Great.

[Caller]

So.

[George Camel]

And that can become. That can become extra on the mortgage. That could be. Hey, you know what? I need sinking funds for a vacation. I'm going to put money away for an upgrade in a car two years from now. And so what I've done is just set up a bunch of sinking funds in my every dollar budget to where that money has a name. The most dangerous thing you can do is to not have every single dollar assigned to a job in your budget. And so assign it and sit down. You have a wife.

[Caller]

No girlfriend at the moment. Technically running from me. So.

[George Camel]

Yikes. That's got to be awkward.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You need to call my show.

[Caller]

Not renting. We're just not married. So I bought the house and she's just giving me some for staying with me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Bro, go down this weekend and you'll get married.

[George Camel]

How long you been dating?

[Caller]

About three years.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What are you waiting on? Actually, you're 20. It's fine. I get it.

[George Camel]

His prefrontal cortex has not developed.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. He's got five years. Almost there. Prefrontal cortex.

[Caller]

Oh, we're just waiting for her to get out of school.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ok, you're already living together. Just call it. Is she the one?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, take some of that extra money and go get a ring this weekend. And y'all go wrap it up.

[George Camel]

And for now, it's Cole's money. And so we're gonna have only goals for Cole, only Cole's budget. And so again, I Would set up sinking funds. Probably looking at a ring, probably looking at cash flowing, a wedding, maybe further education, who knows? Just assign it to all the places you want it to go. And if you don't have a place for it, I just start chunking at the mortgage for now.

[Caller]

Okay. And then also would it be able to put it. So after I get done with all that stuff, should I put it into like index funds or.

[George Camel]

Yeah, once you're in baby step seven, once you get rid of that mortgage, you can increase investing beyond 15% and you'll max out retirement first and then move on to index funds and non retirement accounts and all that good stuff. But you're a ways away. But keep dreaming of my man. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near [e-mail] agent. That's ramseysolutions.com agent.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George campbell, joined by Dr. John DeLoney. If you want to see Dr. John DeLoney and Dave Ramsey, they are headed out on the open road for the Money and relationships tour and they're gonna make this event a little different. You get to choose the content before the event and they'll talk about things like raising great kids, handling money fights the right way, making real friends in the 21st century. And they're coming to a city near you, hopefully. Louisville, April 21. Durham, April 23. Atlanta, April 25. Phoenix on May 5. Fort Worth, May 7. Kansas City on May 9. And these are some really cool venues and theaters you guys are hitting.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's amazing. Imagine if my show and the Ramsey show had a kid and then that kid was let loose on a stage. That's what this show will be. It's going to be a blast. I can't wait.

[George Camel]

I'm scared for them. I hope they're not filming it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you ever wonder like, did they edit stuff out? Yes. And this will be the unedited version.

[George Camel]

You'll get to see it. Get your seats today. You can get [e-mail] tour and if you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, click the Link in the show notes. Let's get to the phones. So Hybe joins us in West Haven, Connecticut. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Yes, hello. So I have found myself like in 14 months that I've been to say, United States. I've been into this loop and I, and my income is like very low and I can't seem to bring it any higher because I don't have any experience. I'm server at restaurant. Like I make about 3k per month. So I was thinking like, should I avoid rent and then buy like a SUV and I kind of live in it until I save up some money and get some skills or is it a stupid idea?

[George Camel]

Where are you living now?

[Caller]

West Haven, Connecticut.

[George Camel]

No, where like are you renting an apartment? Are you living with family friends in an apartment?

[Caller]

It's about like 650 per month. It's not much, but my income is also very low.

[George Camel]

Okay. No, 650 sounds very reasonable.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So what's wrong with that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Well, how are you having trouble keeping it together?

[George Camel]

Did you take on debt?

[Caller]

I have, I have like 4k for down payment. Then yeah, I was thinking about financing one and then putting the rent on the, on the finance car. And that way I could go to school like easier and everything. But if I can, I can buy a car and be and rent a room but I won't be able to save a penny. And like I would be stuck in this situation for like very long. That's what I'm thinking.

[George Camel]

Can I give you a pro tip for being a new immigrant to the States? And if you can avoid this thing, you will have such a wonderful life of opportunity. And it's this, don't fall for the American trap of debt. No country in the world makes it so easy and so attractive to take on payments like the US And I'm scared that you're already getting starry eyed going, ooh, could finance a car. And they're saying they can get the payment down to $300 a month and so I might as well get a nicer newer car. Do you have any debt currently?

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, please, please, please, please, please take it from two guys who've been down that road. Don't do that. I would rather see you go four years and get out of school scratching and clawing and barely making it every month. And you get out and you have a degree and you don't owe anybody anything other than having a car that is now worth 35 or 40% of what you bought it for and being stuck, you Got a. You got a good deal. You live in one of the most expensive places to live. It's very expensive. Like a cost of living in West Haven, Connecticut is very expensive. Why did you pick that place?

[Caller]

I just chose this cold back there from my country. And then I got accepted and I was like, okay, let's, let's try. It wasn't my plan to come here. And then I got into school for free and everything was good. But, but I'm thinking that because I've never paid rent, never worked before, never had like money to manage it, and this whole thing is new for me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Excellent.

[Caller]

Kind of like.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So let me tell you this.

[Caller]

There's a 50 on rent and it's going like away like 7k. You say 7k per year. I mean, I know it's reasonable, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

650 is very good deal. But listen, there is a, there's, there's it kind of barbells, right? It kind of is an either or. There are students in the United States who borrow everything and live high on the hog for four years and then they end up calling this show because they are, have run their life into the ground. The other part of the culture that doesn't get much media play is millions and millions of students scratch and claw their way through and they, they work as waiters and then they get up in the morning and they drive Uber and they live in a crump, the cheapest apartment they can safely live in. And then they just bide their time for four years and they take advantage of the school health clinic and they take advantage of the school counseling system and they take advantage of the school gym and they keep their expenses low. So if you've got free tuition in the US you're already way far ahead. Don't make it worse by borrowing money. I would much rather you're on the right path. I'm going to send you, we're going to send you Financial Peace University. And it's a class that 10 million plus people have gone through to teach them just what, what you're experiencing is how do we manage this money? Okay? And if you'll watch these lessons, it will give you a play by play on how to do it, okay? But man, you're ahead of the game. You're ahead of the game. You're ahead of the game. I know you feel like you're not. I'm telling you, you are. And you're gonna look up in four years and have a US degree. You're gonna have learned some great skills. And please don't owe anybody any money when it's over. Especially not on a depreciating asset. What I mean by that is when you buy a car, the moment you drive it off the lot, it has lost money. And every day it loses money, it just becomes worth less and less and less. But your payment never changes. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

You said you have $4,000 saved up.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Way to go. So instead of seeing that as a down payment, see it as this is my car budget right now, total. Right.

[Caller]

But can I get like a reliable car for 4000?

[George Camel]

Well, you might. Let's say you could, you could save up another $2,000 over the next three months. Right. Right now your car budget, $6,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And yes, absolutely, 100%.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And it's not going to be the nicest, it's not going to be anything like the new cars that they show you on the lot. But you're not driving this car for 20 years. You're going to drive it for maybe two years until you can save up and be in a better place and upgrade the car. You'll sell that one for probably what you paid for it and then upgrade with the money you have saved up. Do you see that kind of slow burn by using cash and how it slows you down to make better decisions?

[Caller]

Yes, yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And here's the other thing. Anybody who tells you otherwise isn't telling you the truth. I was a dean of students at a law school and I drive a, I drove a 3, 500 truck because me and my wife trying to get out of debt and she was a professor and she drove, it was probably a four thousand dollar Corolla and nobody cared. They just wanted to know, are you showing up and doing a great job at your job? And so when you're young, people are like, no, dude, they won't take you seriously if you don't have this car.

[George Camel]

Dude, they don't pay your bills, show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Up, do a great job at school and be able to focus on school. And dude, you need, you need as little stress as possible trying to figure out a new culture, new languages, new schooling stuff. You don't need to add financial stress to a bank on there. So yeah, go buy yourself a $5,000 car, man. It's going to be an old Camry, find yourself an old truck. It's not going to be sexy, it's not going to look great. It will get you to and from.

[George Camel]

And let me advise you, get a pre purchase inspection. It's going to cost you 100, 150 bucks. It's going to be worth every penny so that you don't go, oh my gosh, I got a $5,000 car. It needs 3,000 repairs the week after I bought it. Get a pre purchase inspection from a mechanic that you trust, an independent one that can look it over and go, all right, this car is not going to have a bunch of issues. It's in solid condition. This will get you another 50,000, 100,000 miles. And that will put you in a place to then save up because you free up that payment now, you can save that money and upgrading car. And I'm gonna also send you my book, Breaking free from broke on top of financial peace. Read the car loans chapter specifically and I walk you through the right way to buy a car. Every single step from the payment to the research, the negotiating, all of that to give you some confidence and clarity. And the one thing you're not going to do is walk away with a payment. You're 14 months in. You're doing really.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We're on your side, my man.

[George Camel]

We're rooting for you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Glad you're here. Go to school and get a great degree, man.

[George Camel]

And don't be tempted by American stupidity. I know they make it look so cool, but everyone is miserable and broke and anxious and I don't want you to become that. There's too much opportunity for you. So hang on the line. We're going to send you financial peace university and breaking free from broke. I hope you can avoid the traps that America has created for you that puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. If you want to catch the next hour, jump onto the Rams Ramsey network app. It's totally free. It's linked in the show notes or just search Ramsey network in the app store of your choosing and we will continue the show over there. If you're on radio, stick around. The show will continue as promised. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey network in the app store, Google play store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.