This Is Your Brain on Debt

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – Episode "This Is Your Brain on Debt"

Introduction

Timestamp: [00:15]
Rachel Cruz opens the show from the Ramsey Solutions headquarters, introducing herself alongside Dr. John DeLoney. They emphasize their mission to help listeners build wealth, pursue fulfilling work, and foster strong relationships by answering questions related to life, money, relationships, and career. The hosts invite listeners to call in at 888-825-5225 to seek advice on overcoming their financial challenges.

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Caller 1: Torin from Boston – Navigating College Choices to Avoid Debt

Timestamp: [00:59]
Issue: Torin, an 18-year-old high school senior from Boston, seeks advice on convincing his parents to support his plan to attend a community college first to avoid incurring debt. His parents prefer he attend a private university and play college sports, dismissing concerns about debt.

Discussion:
Torin explains that Massachusetts offers free community college, which he plans to attend before transferring to a state school with a guaranteed acceptance rate. His parents counter his plan by expressing that debt is not a significant concern and insist he pursue sports at a private university. This disagreement has led to familial tensions, including threats to revoke financial support and impose restrictions like taking away his car and phone.

Advice:
Rachel and Dr. DeLoney discuss the frustration of parents not supporting financially prudent decisions. They highlight the importance of respectful communication and suggest Torin apologize for any initial rudeness to mend the relationship. They also emphasize the financial benefits of attending community college, including a higher return on investment (ROI) by avoiding substantial student loans.

Notable Quotes:

• Torin: “They said I was being pretty rude about it.” [03:31]
• Torin: “They are going to take your cell phone, we're going to take our ball and we're not playing with you anymore.” [02:28]
• Rachel Cruz: “Run some numbers on the ROI of the private college... From the math perspective, who comes out ahead.” [08:14]

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Caller 2: Linda from Dallas, Texas – Retired with Insufficient Income

Timestamp: [10:32]
Issue: Linda, a 68-year-old retiree, reports receiving less than $2,000 a month, including Social Security benefits, which falls short of covering her $2,400 monthly mortgage and additional living expenses. She is currently in the midst of a divorce, complicating her financial situation as she anticipates receiving part of her pension, though payments have been inconsistent.

Discussion:
Linda reveals that her mortgage exceeds her monthly income, leaving her unsure how she's managing her expenses without taking a deficit. She expresses uncertainty about her financial planning and the sustainability of her current housing situation.

Advice:
Rachel and Dr. DeLoney recommend that Linda consider selling her home to reduce her financial burden. They suggest downsizing to more affordable housing, such as a one-bedroom condo, and exploring all available work opportunities to bridge the income gap. Dr. DeLoney commends Linda for her courage in leaving a dangerous relationship and encourages her to seek help from Ramsey's financial coaches to map out a sustainable budget.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “The only path I see for you is to go find whatever work you can find.” [12:01]
• Torin: “You've got to sell the house and find something like a one-bedroom condo.” [13:43]
• Rachel Cruz: “You are so courageous for making a decision to leave a dangerous situation.” [15:55]

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Caller 3: Teresa from Facebook – Side Jobs to Tackle Debt

Timestamp: [17:30]
Issue: Teresa inquires about effective side jobs to increase income and accelerate her journey out of debt.

Discussion:
Rachel and Dr. DeLoney address the importance of increasing income to manage and eliminate debt. They discuss various side hustles that offer higher returns by directly connecting with customers, such as tutoring, piano lessons, lawn care, house sitting, babysitting, and dog walking. They emphasize the value of choosing side jobs that maximize ROI per hour.

Advice:
The hosts encourage listeners to explore side hustles that align with their skills and time availability. They highlight the significance of discipline in directing additional income towards debt repayment rather than spending.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Cruz: “Having that extra money towards paying off debt to get out of debt as quickly as possible versus spending it too.” [18:38]
• Torin: “Work like your life depends on it. They'll hire you.” [18:46]

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Caller 4: Sarah from Virginia Beach – Pre-Approved Loan with Increased Interest Rate

Timestamp: [22:31]
Issue: Sarah reports that after receiving a pre-approval for a car loan at a 7.5% interest rate, the actual loan processed through her bank shows an increased rate of 9.5%. She is concerned about the discrepancy and feels misled by the bank.

Discussion:
Sarah explains that despite the pre-approved rate, the bank raised the interest rate without her agreement. She and her husband are fearful of the increased financial obligation, especially as she is pregnant with their fifth child and concerned about affording a reliable vehicle.

Advice:
Rachel and Dr. DeLoney advise Sarah to consider selling the vehicle to avoid incurring higher debt. They explain that pre-approvals often indicate potential eligibility rather than guaranteed rates, emphasizing the importance of being prepared for rate fluctuations. They recommend avoiding unnecessary debt and finding alternative transportation solutions.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah: “They could do whatever they wanted.” [23:06]
• Rachel Cruz: “Don't do business with banks. Don't go into debt.” [23:34]

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Caller 5: Lindsey from Ohio – Marital Financial Conflicts

Timestamp: [32:21]
Issue: Lindsey describes a strained marriage where her husband refuses to combine finances, accuses her of being with him for his money, and involves his mother in financial matters. She feels unsupported and fears financial instability, especially concerning the welfare of her three-year-old son.

Discussion:
Lindsey explains that her husband not only keeps finances separate but also allows his mother access to his accounts, jeopardizing their financial security should anything happen to him. He has expressed dissatisfaction in the marriage, leaving Lindsey feeling heartbroken and fearful about their future.

Advice:
Rachel and Dr. DeLoney suggest that Lindsey seek marriage therapy immediately and confront the possibility that her husband intends to leave the marriage. They emphasize the importance of establishing financial independence, exploring career opportunities to increase her income, and preparing for potential separation to ensure her and her son's financial well-being.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “You can only bring to the table what you are feeling, what you believe and hope that your spouse reciprocates.” [37:12]
• Torin: “Are you through with our marriage? I think more people avoid that question...” [34:07]

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Caller 6: John from Salt Lake City – Transitioning Sales Compensation Structure

Timestamp: [39:22]
Issue: John has been earning approximately $200,000 annually in a straight commission sales role for 15 years. His company is shifting to a base salary plus bonus model, raising concerns about maintaining his income especially in an established market with limited growth opportunities.

Discussion:
John expresses his appreciation for the company and his respect for his superiors but is uncertain about the financial implications of the pay structure change. The primary dilemma is whether to relocate to new territories with higher growth potential or stay in his current location with a potentially reduced income.

Advice:
Rachel and Dr. DeLoney advise John to evaluate his priorities between professional satisfaction and financial security. They suggest considering the long-term impact of relocating versus maintaining his current lifestyle. The hosts emphasize the importance of aligning career decisions with personal and financial goals to ensure overall well-being.

Notable Quotes:

• John: “I have no problem with the parents saying...” [02:10]
• Torin: “Your professional life is more than your paycheck.” [40:25]

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Caller 7: Jim from Atlanta, Georgia – Purchasing First Home Amid High Living Costs

Timestamp: [43:01]
Issue: Jim and his wife, having achieved Baby Step Four in the Ramsey plan, are struggling to save for their first home in Atlanta due to high rent ($2,000/month) and increased living expenses, including $800/month on groceries. They earn a combined $100,000 annually but find the local housing market prohibitive.

Discussion:
Jim details his current expenses, including rent, utilities, and groceries, which strain their ability to save for a down payment. Rachel and Dr. DeLoney discuss the high cost of living in Atlanta and the financial challenges it poses for first-time homebuyers.

Advice:
The hosts recommend considering more affordable housing options possibly outside Atlanta. They suggest evaluating whether to adjust their housing expectations, such as opting for a townhouse or condo, and exploring different neighborhoods where home prices are more attainable. Rachel emphasizes the importance of aligning their financial goals with their living situation to achieve homeownership.

Notable Quotes:

• Torin: “Do we want to be homeowners more than we want to live in the zip code.” [44:43]
• Rachel Cruz: “Home ownership from a financial standpoint is the wisest thing that you guys can do.” [46:32]

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Listener Success Story: Shelby and Logan from Sacramento, California – Paying Off a $198,000 Mortgage in Seven Years

Timestamp: [63:34]
Story:
Shelby and Logan share their remarkable achievement of paying off a $198,000 mortgage over seven years. Starting with an income of $94,000, they increased their earnings to $207,000, allowing them to aggressively tackle their debt. They describe adopting frugal living habits, prioritizing debt repayment, and maintaining discipline despite increasing income.

Insights:
Their journey underscores the effectiveness of the Ramsey Baby Steps, particularly Baby Step Three (paying off debt) and Baby Step Five (saving for first home). The couple highlights the importance of consistent budgeting, prioritizing debt elimination, and the emotional relief that comes with being debt-free.

Notable Quotes:

• Shelby: “It just feels like God has laid this path for us.” [66:41]
• Logan: “We’re debt free.” [74:44]

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Discussion: The Risks of Gambling and Sports Betting on Financial Stability

Timestamp: [74:07]
Issue: The hosts delve into the increasing prevalence of gambling, particularly sports betting, and its detrimental impact on financial stability. They cite statistics indicating that Americans are spending more on sports betting than investing in stocks, with the industry generating $10.9 billion in revenue in 2023.

Discussion:
Torin and Rachel explore how the legalization and easy accessibility of sports betting contribute to financial instability, especially among low-income households. They discuss the biochemical effects of gambling addiction, including the dopamine cycles that drive compulsive betting behaviors, leading to increased debt and financial hardship.

Advice:
The hosts strongly advise against gambling, emphasizing that any financial activity involving high risk should only be undertaken with disposable income. They advocate for responsible financial behaviors, such as investing in proven, low-risk avenues to ensure long-term financial growth and stability.

Notable Quotes:

• Torin: “Don’t gamble unless you can set that money on fire in your living room and you can laugh about it.” [81:06]
• Rachel Cruz: “Proven track record that your money will make money in the long term.” [78:49]
• Torin: “If you have to gamble to feel alive again, go talk to somebody.” [82:40]

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Rachel Cruz and Dr. John DeLoney provide actionable advice tailored to each caller’s unique financial situation. The overarching themes emphasize the importance of discipline, respectful communication, and strategic financial planning to overcome debt and achieve financial independence. Additionally, the hosts highlight the dangers of high-risk financial behaviors like gambling, advocating for responsible and informed financial decisions to secure a stable and prosperous future.

Timestamp References:
All timestamps correspond to the moments in the transcript where each segment begins.

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Notable Remarks:

• The hosts consistently stress the significance of aligning financial decisions with personal values and long-term goals.
• Emphasis on the Ramsey Baby Steps as a structured path to financial recovery and wealth building.
• Recognition of the emotional and psychological aspects of financial stress and the importance of seeking professional help when needed.

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Final Thought:

"This Is Your Brain on Debt" serves as a comprehensive guide for listeners grappling with various financial challenges. By addressing real-life scenarios and offering practical solutions, The Ramsey Show empowers individuals to take control of their finances, foster healthier relationships with money, and build a foundation for lasting wealth.

Transcript

[Rachel Cruz]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author Dr. John DeLoney. And we are answering your questions about life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. So give us a call at Triple 882-55-5225. All right, we're going to go to the phones and is it Torin from Boston? Hey, welcome to the show.

[John DeLoney]

Hey, guys. Thank you guys for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. Is it Torin? Did I get that right?

[John DeLoney]

Yep, that's perfect.

[Rachel Cruz]

Awesome. How so?

[John DeLoney]

I'm an 18 year old and I'm a senior in high school this year and I wanted pretty much advice on what to tell my parents about college. I've been watching you guys for a while now and I know the biggest thing was, you know, don't go into debt. Don't take out loans if you can try and cash flow it. So I figured I would want to go to a cheaper school. I live in Massachusetts, so it's a. Community college is free, but I figured I would go there and I could transfer to a state school where it's 100% acceptance rate after out of the community college I want to go to. And my parents were very against this idea. They wanted me to go play a sport in college and go to a private university. They told me that like debt doesn't matter. And yeah, I just wanted to make sure, you know, I was making the right decision because they don't agree with it.

[Torin]

Are they paying for it?

[John DeLoney]

I went to community college. No, they're not paying for it.

[Torin]

Yeah, they don't get a vote. Then.

[John DeLoney]

I brought that up, but they said they're going to be kicking me out. Don't pay for housing. They also like take the car and my phone away.

[Torin]

I mean, if they want to throw a grown up temper tantrum, that's like the, that's like the most babiest thing I've ever like. They wait.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I want to know more why that's so. That's so. That's so. That feels very extreme. Like it's one thing if your parents kind of like turn their nose up at community college because they're very educated. New England.

[Torin]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. It's like, oh my gosh, can't believe you're gonna go to community college, but to kick you out and take your car and your phone, I mean, that's a.

[Torin]

Or if they said, is there a.

[Rachel Cruz]

Religious element to this like a, like to go to a Catholic school? I don't know. Or like any level of like a religion conviction there?

[John DeLoney]

No, I don't really understand why they just said it would look bad on resumes. And I think I'm making the wrong decision. They said I was being pretty rude about it. So I think that's why.

[Torin]

Well, if I have no problem with the parents saying, hey, as for me in my house, you're going to this school and we're paying for it. And if you want to go somewhere else, you're on your own, I have no problem with that at all. That happens all the time. And if they say, hey, in this house, we go to Harvard. And so we've created this fund and you're going to Harvard if you get in, I have no problem with that. If they tell you you will not go to that school that you can afford, which is free, you will go take out loans and put yourself behind for the next 15 years of your life or 20 years of your life, depending on what private school you go to. And if you don't do that, we're going to take your cell phone, we're going to take our ball and we're going to go home. We're not playing with you anymore. That just sounds like real childish, immature behavior because, because what they're doing is they're, they're asking you to have all the skin in the game and they're just going to sit on the sidelines and holler at you.

[John DeLoney]

I thought the same thing. I don't, I don't really know what their plan was for it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Is this out of character for them? Like, were you shocked by this or is this like. Yeah, yeah. I could see mom and dad doing this.

[John DeLoney]

I already knew that they didn't want me living there after I was 18. They said they would help me out a little bit before. It was definitely out of character for them to like, to. Once they kind of like said like, my mom said I keep the car. My dad was very against keeping the car after that.

[Torin]

But were you being a jerk, dude? Were you being an 18 year old just like a turd or are you being kind and thoughtful?

[John DeLoney]

I will admit for like the first like 30 minutes, talked about I was very kind and peaceful. And then I started to. I was, I was not as nice as I should have been to them.

[Torin]

All right? I spent my whole career working with 18 year olds. Go tell your parents you're sorry, all right? Go be respectful, 18 year old son and say, hey, I got fired up and I acted like a kid. And I'm sorry. I do not want to go into debt for college. And I respect your. I, I respect. You want your kids, you want to be able to tell your friends that your kid graduated from this college. And I, I get that you don't, you don't like this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Don't say that. That's disrespectful, isn't it?

[Torin]

I know. That was me just having a little bit, a little bit of a mommy dick. But like, like she wants to be able to go to bridge club and tell like, well, my kid is Rachel. We used to call it, we used to call it the, we used to call it the soccer mom scholarship. I worked at one university. We would lose students. We would give somebody a half scholarship or. I'm sorry, our. The tuition was. I'm making up a number. 20 grand.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Torin]

And they would go to another school that cost 50 grand, but they got a $1,000 JV soccer scholarship and we would lose them. Which is a. Right, it's a, it's, it's a $30,000 a year move. $120,000 move to play JV soccer so that, so that parents can be like, oh my, my kid's playing on a soccer scholarship. Yeah, right. It costs them money, like six figures. Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's $1,000 scholarship.

[Torin]

But I would tell your parents you're sorry and then you have to make an 18 year old decision.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And Torrin, let me say this too, okay. And John's the education nerd. He loves education. So he can maybe back me up on this. Just, just for perspective. So you're in Boston and I, we have friends that came from that area. And the way, even the, the Northeast, I would say even specifically the way they view education, there is a, there is a high premium, high regard. Like it is, it is everything when, when you come to. In the south, it's important.

[Torin]

Say it, Rachel.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's important, but it's not life. Like, like there's a belief of like you can scratch and claw and start a business and be as successful as the guy that has the college degree. Like, or that, you know, I mean, whether you go to college or not, there's kind of a micro, like just kind of get in there and you figure it out and you can still be successful. But it doesn't have this air about it, which I'm not saying all New England's have that, but I, but I do think as an 18 year old that's growing up in that environment, I mean you're in Boston, like it's. So just know there's a world outside of that. Not that we have it right necessarily. I'm not saying that. But. But you can be successful. You can meet people and network outside of a college. Like there are ways to live life. That is not one path of just it has to be this prestigious education. If you don't get this, it's gonna look bad on resumes. You're never gonna get a job, you're gonna be homeless and you're gonna die. Like that's not the, that's not the route. That's not right. So just know there is, there is more to life outside of possibly the bubble in which education is talked about in your family and for whatever it's worth doing. But John loves it, so just maybe he'll talk.

[Torin]

I've got a. I've got a. I think one of the most mission minded institutions in the United States is. Can be found inside of community colleges. And for whatever it's worth, my mom, Dr. DeLoney, the first Dr. DeLoney was my mother who graduated in her 50s with her PhD, started at a community college as a tenured full professor. Right. So. So you can. Here's what you can do with a community college education. Anything you want to. Yeah, period. Maybe you have to work harder to get job number one. Fine. But by the way, you're going to transfer out, right? You'll go to a state school or to a private. Wherever you end up on a transfer out.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, there's a. Yeah, there's a program called mass transfer and it guarantees acceptance as well as some other scholarships as long as you maintain a certain grade point average in community college.

[Rachel Cruz]

Man, that's good. And you're right on, you know, and for fun too torn like just run some numbers on the ROI of the private college that you'd go into debt for. Average interest rate on a student loan, how long that would probably take you to pay off when you, if you got out of school with an average, maybe an above our average salary, let's say run those numbers out. Having to repay that starting in a financial hole significantly six figures probably for this school versus getting through it debt free. Doing the free community college, working, saving up, graduating from state school, starting off and starting to invest the moment you get your first paycheck because you're going to have money and not be in a hole financially. From the math perspective, who comes out ahead.

[Torin]

Oh, so especially getting started.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right. Yeah. And for everybody listening, I'M proud of you for think outside the box. But be nice to your parents.

[Torin]

Yeah. Be respectful. The treat your parents with dignity and for everybody. I love private schools. I've worked at multiple private schools. I would love for my kids like, I love private schools. I just don't like parents lobbing grenades at their kids and saying, hey, to prop us up. You go do this thing that's going to cost you 10, 20 years of your life for making us feel good. I don't like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Linda]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls at 888-82552. 225. Up next, we have Linda in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Linda, welcome to the show.

[John DeLoney]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[John DeLoney]

Well, I'm retired and I get less than 2,000amonth. I can't afford rent and I don't qualify for low income housing. How do I survive?

[Torin]

Yeah, you're in a mess, hun. How old are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

68.

[John DeLoney]

68.

[Rachel Cruz]

And is the 2000 from Social Security?

[John DeLoney]

No, 195 is in Social Security.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is that in addition to the 2000 or that's included?

[John DeLoney]

No, that's included in 2000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And where are you getting the other money from us?

[John DeLoney]

I'm in the middle of a divorce. I'm supposed to be getting pension. Part of my pension okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're supposed to be getting it or that's what you're getting?

[John DeLoney]

No, no, he's paying me. They're not paying me.

[Torin]

Is he going to pay you, though?

[John DeLoney]

I don't know.

[Rachel Cruz]

You okay? Do you know when you'll know that, like, I wonder just how long you'll be in this specific situation for?

[John DeLoney]

Yes, in a while. I'm assuming after my divorce is finalized, I will know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Torin]

Linda, why are you getting divorced at 68 years old? What happened?

[John DeLoney]

Domestic violence.

[Torin]

Oh, Lord. I'm sorry.

[John DeLoney]

Thank you.

[Torin]

There is no easy way to say what I'm about to say. Okay. Is that cool?

[John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Torin]

I'm sure you're tired of people telling you that same exact line. Aren't you tired of lawyers telling you that and everybody telling you that? Aren't you listening that there's no easy way to say what I'm about to say?

[John DeLoney]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Torin]

There's. There, there's. There's literally only two ways. Two things you can do with money. You can spend less of it or you can make more of it.

[John DeLoney]

Right.

[Torin]

And you simply. You simply don't have enough of it coming in.

[John DeLoney]

Right.

[Torin]

And the only path I see for you is to go find whatever work you can find. Whether that's work from home on a computer, whether that's going in somewhere, that's it.

[John DeLoney]

I've been doing that and right now no one's hired me. And if everyone's doing part time.

[Torin]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much are you. How much are you in the hole every month, money wise?

[John DeLoney]

Surprisingly, I don't know what's going on, but I'm not actually in the hole. I don't know how it's working.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. How much is your rent or your mortgage?

[John DeLoney]

My mortgage is 220.

[Rachel Cruz]

400. 2400amonth. But did you say you were only bringing in 2,000?

[John DeLoney]

Yes. Don't ask me how it's working.

[Torin]

Well, I have to ask you how it's working. It's just a math problem.

[John DeLoney]

I know, but I'm not going down in my account. And I keep looking. Is it getting paid? Are my bills getting paid? They're all getting paid.

[Torin]

Is your ex husband paying them?

[John DeLoney]

No, I am. They're coming out of my checking account.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much money do you have in your checking account?

[John DeLoney]

I have in my second and savings, about 16,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So it's just probably taking money out of that and that and. Well, what's going to happen is that's going to dwindle pretty fast.

[John DeLoney]

Right, Right, exactly. I have like I don't know, six months to do something, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

That's exactly right. Yep. So your mortgage is more than what you're bringing in, and so that doesn't include any other utilities. So you're looking at. To keep this house for that big of a mortgage payment, you're going to need to be bringing in close to nine grand a month, which I'm not sure if that's going to be possible. So I don't know for the house, if you're going to be able to afford it long term in order to sustain. Yep. Any level of lifestyle. So are you. How, how much is left on the house? How much do you owe?

[John DeLoney]

About 275,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, okay.

[Torin]

How much equity's in the house?

[John DeLoney]

See, well, I think it's worth 333.50. So what is that?

[Torin]

150 grand. If it's worth. You say it's worth. No, I'm sorry, 75 grand.

[John DeLoney]

That sounds right. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, you owe 675,000 on it. 275.

[Torin]

Oh, 275.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh.

[Torin]

It's worth 350.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, long term, Linda, I'm gonna say that, yeah, you're gonna have to sell the house eventually here. And then, I mean, I would do it sooner than later. Honestly, I don't think it's worth the stress of what you're gonna be under here after this account goes down, money wise. So I would sell it and I would find something like a one bedroom condo, something that you could own. But it's going to be significant, you know, if you can find something that's, that's less than this and maybe a different part of Dallas as well. And then finding, yeah, any level of work that you can to bridge that gap. Because like what John said, I mean there's, that's the hard part about money is there's not really emotion around it. It is, it's just, it is the math problem and so understanding. Okay, here's the money coming in, the money going out, but also my hope. Linda, number one, you're so courageous for making a decision to leave a dangerous situation and in a marriage at this age. Like, I commend you for that greatly. Like, that's, that's scary. And taking that step is really difficult. And so I'm so proud of you for that. And then I, yeah, I pray that your, the divorce, you know, comes to a, to an end and that he'll have Some of his pension that he'll be paying you to help supplement some of this income too.

[Torin]

Yeah. And if you do not, not everybody has this. And in fact, it's getting rarer and rarer. But if you do have kids, friends, adult friends, church friends, this is the time to say, hey, I need some help. And people always tell me, I don't like asking for help or it makes me feel weird. This is the time to say, I need some help. Will you sit down with me and help me map this thing out? Do you know a good realtor will connect you with. I'm going to connect you with one of our Ramsey financial coaches. I'm going to pay for one of the sessions. And so you can sit down, they can walk through your budget with you. And, and so hang on the line here, we'll get you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thanks.

[Torin]

But here's another thing for everyone out there who are, who is in a, what I would call a, I don't know, it's a protected class really. But I can imagine walking in at 68 years old, not having worked and being like, I need a job and people are going to look at you and go, yeah, no thanks. Right. I, I wish the world wasn't that way. It is. If you can only get a part time job, get a part time job and work like, work like your life depends on it. They'll hire you, right? They will hire you. And if they don't have a, a full time, I mean a, a full time job available at some point, they may roll you into one that is a full time job or call a friend or they'll be able to be a good resource for you. But all you can get is one or two part time jobs. Work them like that's all you got. Right. And then let, let opportunities show up in front of you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. So good.

[Torin]

Golly, I'm sorry.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, let's go to Facebook. John.

[Torin]

How about we don't.

[Rachel Cruz]

We have Teresa on Facebook.

[Torin]

All right.

[Rachel Cruz]

A social question. She asked, what kind of side jobs did you get? Should you get to start tackling debt? So this is a question. We get a lot people that are on baby step two that are trying to get out of debt. This, the income part of getting out is a huge, huge part of the speed of which you can get out of debt. Right. I mean like you can cut expenses, but only to a point, right. I mean you still have to pay for things. So this extra income is really kind of the, the magic part of it. But it's also difficult because it's, it's high lift. I mean it takes your time. I mean you're, you're working full, you know, full time possibly and then you're taking some kind of side hustle. So I mean I have found the, the most lucrative ones we've seen and talked to people is like when you can have a direct connection to the customer, meaning you do tutoring, piano lessons, lawn care, lawn care, house sitting, babysitting, dog sitting, dog walking. Like when you can go straight to the person, to the customer, you're usually going to get a higher rate of return per hour versus going and working a retail job or something, you know.

[Torin]

Or if you can work at alt hours so you can work a full time job and then you can drive in hours where you otherwise couldn't just go get a regular job.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, that's right. Yep, totally. And you know, always the, you know, the Ubers, the Lyfts, the food delivery services, a lot of those we've, I mean we were talking to some people on a webinar last week and people were making like 1,015, $1200. I mean a lot by even just driving at night. So again, looking at those options but finding and actually digging into the details of it because I think if you're going to be doing it, you want the most ROI out of your time because all of that will be going towards debt and having the discipline to put that extra money towards paying off debt to get out of debt as quickly as possible versus spending it too. So having that, that, that character quality of like, yep, I'm going to be disciplined in that and stay true that this extra income is going towards debt is huge. So all of you, all and some of you listening to this, listen to it during your side hustle. So we always just want to applaud you and remind you that that is possible. This debt free journey really is, takes a lot of hard work, but it is possible. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Linda]

What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle. The number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com Ramsey.

[Rachel Cruz]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. The holiday season is upon us and we have some extra special things to brighten your special things because you can winter to end to winter to enter. Oh my gosh.

[Torin]

You can enter to win Rachel's Clarity and speaking program. Yeah, it's new in Ramsey education.

[Rachel Cruz]

You can go to Ramsolutions.com store get 20 off. You can enter to win the Ramsey 5000 Dollar Christmas cash giveaway. So you can enter daily to increase your chances to win one of our $500 weekly prizes or the $5,000 grand prize. You can go to ramseysolutions.comgiveaway for that. And then while you're at it, make sure to check out our 50 Days of Christmas deals where you can save up to 30% off on gifts that actually give hope and life change to the people that you love this season. So whether it's building a non anxious life, financial peace, kids, or any other Ramsey fan favorites, make sure to check that out. You can go to Ramsaysolutions.com store or click the link in the description to check out the Christmas sale or again for the giveaway to win some money, you can go to Ramsaysolutions.com giveaway. Up next we have Sarah in Virginia Beach. Hey Sarah, welcome to the show.

[John DeLoney]

Hey.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hello. Hello. How can we help?

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so we got a, we got a pre approval loan for a used car and the pre approval had a seven and a half percent interest rate. And then when we went to, when we saw the loan show up like in our account they have the interest rate at nine and a half percent. And when my husband went to the bank and asked them about the change, they said that they could do whatever they wanted.

[Torin]

Do you know what show you're calling?

[John DeLoney]

The pre approval is allowed to change. But we were like, but we didn't agree to pay this. But we already have the car because we took like, it was like our bank. So we took the check from our bank.

[Torin]

Do you know what show you. I think you may have called the wrong show. Do you know what show this is?

[John DeLoney]

The Ramsay show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, we don't like Carlos. Yeah.

[Torin]

We don't do car.

[Rachel Cruz]

We'll have you probably sell the car.

[Torin]

Yeah, sell the car. And don't do business with crooks.

[Rachel Cruz]

Don't do business with banks. Don't go into debt.

[Torin]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so what's. What's the situation, Sarah? So besides the interest rate, let's. Because, yeah, we are pre.

[Torin]

A pre approval is different from an actual rate.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Torin]

Those are just different things.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. So I'm pregnant with our fifth kid. We're 28, and we're living on like $6,000 a month. But we fortunately live in military housing, so that makes things a little bit easier. Yes. But we were getting a car loan because my husband's been like keeping my van going for a while now, and he finally feels like he's kind of like at the end of what he can do with it. So we're worried, like, it's going to be. It's going to break down and we're like not going to be able to fix it. And we're not going to have a vehicle that can fit our family in it. And so we don't have any other debt. So we were like, well, if we got a car payment that's around $200, then that's not so bad because that's like the only other payment that we have besides like car insurance.

[Torin]

So how can we help you? Sounds like you've got it. Sounds like y'all got it figured out.

[John DeLoney]

I was confused about the pre approval to us.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

So that we don't make that mistake again. Because we thought like, because we were pre approved at seven and a half that like, we would just.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's not a necessarily locked in rate at that point.

[Torin]

Pre approval just means that my understanding is pre approval just says here's the floor, y'all, y'all, y'all. Your credit worthiness would qualify for X.

[Rachel Cruz]

Give me. Sarah, give me kind of a little bit more of Yalls financial situation because I would love to. To maybe help navigate and, you know, talk through just this whole picture because I think you're a mom with. You're pregnant with number five, which. God bless you, Sarah. Well done. I have three and I feel like I have 13 kids, so that's amazing. And I know that the stress that, you know, just growing a family takes and a car is one of the largest purchases that, you know, you make as a family. So I Understand, It's a big deal. And for you guys to have transportation. I totally get that. So your husband, what branch is he in? The military?

[John DeLoney]

He's in the Navy.

[Rachel Cruz]

The Navy. Okay. Well, thanks for his service and for you as a military wife. You guys do a lot for this country, so we really, really honor and appreciate that. So you guys are in military housing. So there's no housing expense for you guys per month or do. Are you paying a little bit of something?

[John DeLoney]

I mean, technically there's like, we get a housing allowance, and when you live in military housing, they just. The housing. Gets the full housing allowance.

[Rachel Cruz]

Perfect. Yep. So nothing's coming out of his paycheck.

[John DeLoney]

Housing. Yeah, we just wouldn't be able to stay under our housing allowance.

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally. Okay. And you guys make. Would you say six grand a month?

[John DeLoney]

So that's like, with our housing allowance. Without our housing allowance. Our housing allowance is 2400, so it's closer to 4000 without our housing allowance.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay. And any money saved?

[John DeLoney]

We have a little bit. Yeah. It's like five. We have like five grand.

[Rachel Cruz]

Five grand. Okay. And no other debt?

[John DeLoney]

We have no other debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. That's great. That's great. And are you working at all? I am not.

[John DeLoney]

Because for me to work, we would lose money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Because we have too many kids to pay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, for sure.

[Torin]

Take care of them.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. How much was the. The van you guys bought?

[John DeLoney]

The loan on the van is 16,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

16,000. Okay. And how much are you going to sell the old van for?

[John DeLoney]

We're hoping to sell it for at least 4,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And so what. What I would encourage you guys to do just as an exercise, you're probably not going to like it, but to save some of that money and continue to not owe anyone anything, I would do a lot of research on. On a van that's 10,000. Right. It's going to be older. It may not be as great as the 16, because if you guys. Have you guys officially purchased the 16 or did you guys get the interest rate and now you're like, oh, gosh, have you signed off on everything?

[John DeLoney]

Well, we haven't signed, like, the promise note, but if we take. I. And so my husband said that we could probably take the van back to the dealership and they would just make us probably pay like a restock fee or something.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I mean, Sarah, I'll be real honest. That's what I would do. I wouldn't. I wouldn't mess with it. And I know the justification of it's only $200 a month. And at that point it's not as much about the money. Even though that's coming out of, you know, your $4,000. There's, there's just the nine and a half interest rate.

[John DeLoney]

The payment is actually 270. We were thinking that we were going to be at like 200amonth because we expected seven and a half interest rate.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, well the, the idea of going through all of this, you're going to be on baby number five. I mean there's just so much stress and there's something about having the peace of mind that if something were to ever happen that you, you don't owe anyone anything and getting a car from the dealership is the more expensive route versus an individual. So I do wonder if you could, if you could talk someone in that selling a 11, $10,000 van to say, hey, we've got some cash and we can, and we can, you know, we can buy it outright or drive the 4000$. As for, for 5, 6 more months if you can and just figure it out that way. But that, honestly that's as you call in, Sarah, that's, that's the advice I want to give you is it's a different thinking paradigm. I understand how you fell into this, but there's something about taking on the identity of like yeah, we're just somebody that we don't borrow money. And when you draw a hard line in the sand, then other options come into play. They have to. Because if this van breaks down, you have to figure out, okay, what are we going to do? But if you're not borrowing money and there's a hard line, you have to get creative with it and, and yeah, and I think, you know, for you, you know, working would be very difficult. I understand that. I do know some people that are doing night stuff, you know, they're doing admin, you know, type online virtual assistant kind of things. But I mean at this point, if I were you guys, I would scrape together what we had and said this is, this is our budget and this is what we have to spend on a car and this is what we're going to spend.

[Torin]

Yeah, we just have to figure it out. And again, for that pre approval thing, it's, they just give you a floating number. It's, it's an approximation. This is about what it's going to be and then depending on what the rates are on any given day and they fluctuate and go up and down.

[Rachel Cruz]

Some yesterday, I mean it's just like.

[Torin]

It'S all over the place. And so, yeah. And here's the bigger picture. The reason we tell people, don't borrow money a is because, again, it always feels like something like this comes up. But if 70 bucks is gonna. Is gonna be a hardship, it's gonna be this big. Well, we thought it was gonna be 7.9. Now it's 9.9. Just don't play the game. Just don't play the game. You got five kids. You have seven people in on base housing. Solve for peace. I'd rather have a crummy van than no. No matter what's happening in our life. How many stitches, broken bones, whatever. Gotta pay that bank. Gotta pay that bank. Gotta pay that bank. I just don't wanna play. I don't wanna play.

[Rachel Cruz]

This is the Ramsey Show.

[Linda]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years. And some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. Are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills?

[Linda]

How about next week?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. In the middle of all that grief, like, it's just. It is. It's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm, like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

[Linda]

And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud. And you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Or go to zander.com.

[Rachel Cruz]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. The Ramsey question of the day is brought to you by. Why Reetha Refi? Why Refi refinances your defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch and gives you a low fixed rate to build that they build just for you. Carissa says that they lowered their payment, her payment from $2,000 a month to $680 a month with why Refi? So go to whyrefi.com Ramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y, r, e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Torin]

All right, today's question comes from Lindsey in Ohio. My husband and I have been married for seven years, and he refuses to combine finances. I make significantly less than he does. And whenever we argue, he says I'm only with him for his money. And he accuses me of wanting to drain his accounts. Geez. I don't have any login info for any of our bills or his bank account. Oh, God. His mom is on his checking account, so if he died tomorrow, she could drain his funds completely. While I waited for death certificates to access the funds and support our son, who is three, he. Yeah, this. This next line doesn't surprise me at all. He recently told me he is not happy and has not been happy for a long time. I'm doing everything I can to keep my family together because I love him. I even turned down job offers recently that paid significantly more just to preserve my mental health and to not cause him more stress. If I'm being honest, I don't earn enough to afford an apartment on my own, let alone eat and pay utilities. I'm scared and heartbroken and looking for some direction.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's hard.

[Torin]

I would stop everything that you're doing, and I would call a therapist, a marriage therapist today, right now, and ask him if he will go with you. He probably will not. And ask him the question, this following question at the dinner table. Are you through with our marriage? I think more people avoid that question and go for months or years with all these peripheral behaviors. Hey, mom, put my mama checking account. You can't have. We have all these. All these proxy wars. Sit down and say, are you done with this marriage? And you might tell them, I'm not going to file on you. You're going to have to leave. Whatever you want, but ask that question and have a therapist already. Appointment already booked. That's where y'all. That's where they're at here.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Yep.

[Torin]

This is a man who's leaving this marriage. And either a doesn't have the courage to do it or hasn't sat with his attorney yet, but he is out of this relationship. And instead of. Instead of doing a non integris thing with integrity, which I know sounds silly, he is just going to let his wife suffocate.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Yep.

[Torin]

And then blame her for her the.

[Rachel Cruz]

Implosion oh, gosh, yeah, man. Lindsay. Well, I do feel like in. I mean, this feels like an extreme situation. You guys don't even have. You don't have access to money at that point of how to pay bills. I mean, you guys are living completely separate lives. And the money issue and how you guys are so separate with money is the symptom of really what's going on in your marriage, which, you know that. And so getting to the root cause of that. But I do want to, you know, encourage you that even in this, if. If it doesn't sound like it's going well, like, I mean, it's. I don't. I mean, you never want to predict a divorce on somebody, but unless he's willing to do the work and you are, too, it's not going. Nothing's going to change. But you, you know, you've been offered money, you're offered jobs that, you know you're getting paid significantly more, but you're turning them down to preserve your mental health. If I were you, I mean, you guys are living separate lives at this point, and yeah, you got to start making plans. I mean, I would. I would start seeing. Yeah. What's out there for me from a career standpoint, to build your confidence back. Because if you're. If you're in a relationship, male, man or woman, like, and that your partner is not reciprocating any level of unity, and that's what you're craving. You love him. I'm like, that's rejection on a daily basis.

[Torin]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

And that erodes, I would have to say, your self confidence. And so to kind of get yourself in a spot from like a mental health standpoint. Right. That's. That's somewhat stable is going to be really important in this for you to possibly make some hard decisions.

[Torin]

And Lindsay, probably for a long time, years, you've been trying to do things to not make him mad, to not make him sad, to not make him upset, to make sure the house is quiet, to, quote, unquote, not cause him stress. Stop. The source of his stress is coming from the inside out, has nothing to do with you. And so you're not turning down job opportunities that would keep you safe, keep your. Keep food on you and your son's table, pay for an apartment. If and when this guy finally leaves you, which he's telling you he's doing, you have to start making those type of plans and stop living every moment to try to not stress him out. It's never been about you. It's always been about him.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. That's.

[Torin]

Hate that for you.

[Rachel Cruz]

We were just on a break and meeting all the fabulous people in the lobby watching the show, but we met with a couple that was here for our money and marriage event. And that's a theme, John, throughout that weekend and through marriage. Winston, I've been married 15 years and I would say even in the last, probably 4ish years to 5 years. Did all of that click like what you just said? Because I think for so long we live in such a way that we really do believe if I do something, it's going to affect you on a, on a level. So I can either choose behaviors or, you know, it's up to me to make sure you're okay. Right. It's. It's that way of living.

[Torin]

I can annoy my wife. I can be frustrating. Sure, I can make her mad, but like, I can't, I can't wake up every day and make her be okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Torin]

Make her be whole. I don't have that kind of power.

[Rachel Cruz]

No. No. And when you put the layer of money on top of it, for those of you listening and watching, we get the question on time. How do I, how do I get my husband to see X, Y and Z? How do I get my wife to see, you know, or I don't have a spouse that's working with me financially, you know, how do I get them to change? And it's the, it's the way the questions are worded and our beliefs that we can change someone in it.

[Torin]

We just haven't said it the right way.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Or if we just had that one conversation and I could just. Yeah. Make it, make this argument, like, really good, then they're going to get it. But there's something deep in the core of who we are. And again, this shows, you know, a lot about money and relationships, but it comes out when, in the financial aspect, meaning that when you guys are not on the same page financially, you can, you can only bring to the table what you are feeling, what you believe and hope that your spouse reciprocates that you're in a marriage, that they're actually listening and responding, but to the point that that is not happening. Then there is the marriage issues that are really going on and it's coming out as money issues and it's marriage issues.

[Torin]

And I say this all the time. Behavior is a language. And this guy's showing you through his actions, he trusts his mom and he doesn't trust you. Right or wrong. Maybe you've earned that lack of trust. Or maybe he just never liked. He trusts his mom and he doesn't trust you. That's a marriage fracture of the highest order. Y'all need to address that. Right when he tells you, I'm not happy. I haven't been for a long time. That's usually coded. Testing the water language for, are you going to blow up? Maybe you leave. Are you not. Do you want to, like, make this mutual kind of thing? Like, that's just. I'm. I'm testing it out, right. This idea that we're not going to be together and you have to start thinking about your four walls. You have a three year old, right. You got to start thinking about. Did different. Different things.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Torin]

And I hate that for you. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. Yet it's where we are.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's what it is. Oh, well, thanks so much, Lindsay, for the question. I hope that helps. All right, let's go to John in Salt Lake City. Hey, John, welcome to the show.

[Linda]

Hi.

[John DeLoney]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[John DeLoney]

So I am in a. Currently in a straight commission sales position. Been in it for somewhere 15 years or so, making about 200,000 a year currently. And. But the pay structure of our company is changing from straight commission to a base plus bonus model.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

The question is. Or my concern is I'm in a very established market currently, so I'm concerned about being able to hit those growth bonuses because there's not a whole lot of growth in my current area left, in my opinion. So the option that they have proposed to me is, well, you. You could pick up additional territory in some additional states where we don't currently have market share, or you could simply go relocate to a new area with, you know, sky's the limit territory.

[Torin]

So how much? How much. How much of your question, dude, is about your. The integrity of the people you work for?

[John DeLoney]

None. I'm, I'm. I'm not concerned about that. I very much like the company, respect my bosses, enjoy what I'm doing. The actual literal question is financially, does it make sense to relocate or what I have to or do I. Which is the option, you know, on a weekly basis and be away from the family, which is not something that I want to do.

[Torin]

Yeah, I think you're. I think your professional life is more than your paycheck. And so if you need 200 grand or you need that more money to survive based on the life y'all have created, and that's what you and your wife decide, great, Go knock your Lights out and commute. Or y'all could end up thinking about moving. Yeah. If you like your life as it is in your community and your friends and your family, what what y'all all do, and you can afford the pay cut, and that's the life y'all want to choose, choose that.

[Rachel Cruz]

This is the Ramsey Show.

[Linda]

Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network app. Your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused on reaching your goals. Loaded with over 7,000 hours of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good. Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the Show Notes to download our free Ramsey Network app.

[Rachel Cruz]

Today, live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my friend and host of the Dr. John DeLoney Show. John Deloney. That's like a double John Deloney. John Deloney, an author of the John Deloney books. So much of your name.

[Torin]

Hard for my children when they were young to even say their dad's name.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. But give us a call at 888-825-5225 and we're going to be answering your calls on life and money. First up, we have Jim in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Jim. Welcome to the show.

[John DeLoney]

Hi. Thanks for having me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[John DeLoney]

So my wife and I are. We're consistently up. Well, now we're up through baby step four, but we haven't bought our first home yet. So that's kind of the next thing, big ticket thing that we're looking to do. And I just. I feel like our expenses are so high. I just don't know how I'm never going to be able to save enough in Atlanta to be able to purchase a home.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So what do you guys make in a year?

[John DeLoney]

We make about. Between the two of us, about 100 grand.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Torin]

And tell me about your expenses, man.

[John DeLoney]

So we pay $2,000 a month. For rent. Probably can add another. It depends because it's like usage based. But 4 or $500 for utilities after that. We do our best with groceries. It's just crazy right now. Probably around $800 a month on food.

[Torin]

Do you have little ones?

[John DeLoney]

No, just my wife and I and our dog.

[Torin]

How old are you?

[John DeLoney]

I'm 26.

[Torin]

26. So. Jim, I'm going to tell you this just because I love you, okay. Just as straight as I can, because I just don't. I think the band of 22 year olds to 35 year olds just wasn't told the truth. And that is y'all are doing everything right. Y'all are working really hard. And you. And you can. Y'all can find some other jobs. We can talk about all that kind of stuff. But increasingly, across the country, people are running into, I want to live in this city. And there are just not enough houses in this city. So the ones that are available are outrageously expensive. They're very expensive.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Torin]

And so there's a reckoning, which is, do we want to be homeowners more than we want to live in the zip code? And that's not in. It's a question that none of us. I'm in my 40s. I. It never even was. It was never a question I was prepped for. But I think the idea of, we have this picture, we got married. We want to live in Atlanta. We want to be Braves fans. God help you. Like, this is where our family. Like, this is where we want to build our life. And this ugly person that doesn't care about your wants or desires or dreams, called math just said it's not going to work. And so you have to decide, do we want to live in the city and rent or do we want to keep working really hard and begin thinking we might. Let's move to Kansas. Let's move to North Dakota. I'm making up places, but I think.

[Rachel Cruz]

There's a reality 45 minutes outside.

[Torin]

Yeah, we're gonna. We have to commute. We have to do some different things. And I think. I think more and more people are banging their head up against mathematical realities and it's making them insane. And I get it, and it's good to be frustrated. But I think a wiser use of your energy is to begin to go, okay, then what must be true? We want to own a house that's ours. Awesome. I love it. All right, let's get out a map and figure out where across the United States of America we can live and Actually afford a house here. It might be Lubbock, Texas. It might be, you know, Highland Park. Who know? Who knows? But that's hard to hear. But, man, what do y'all do for a living?

[John DeLoney]

So I work from home. I work for a university as an academic advisor.

[Torin]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

My wife is a shark trainer.

[Torin]

A shark trainer.

[John DeLoney]

Limited opportunities for her to be able.

[Rachel Cruz]

To do a shark trainer. Like the shark, like, in the ocean and she trains them.

[John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like at the aquarium. The Atlanta Aquarium?

[John DeLoney]

Yes. Correct.

[Torin]

Your wife is the coolest wife who's ever lived.

[John DeLoney]

I know, I know, man.

[Rachel Cruz]

I wanted to be a marine biologist so bad and, like, do this kind of work, man.

[Torin]

You took a left turn.

[Rachel Cruz]

Wow.

[Torin]

She's a shark trainer, dude.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so unbelievable.

[Torin]

So you're going to be living in. You're going to be living by the coast, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Or by an aquarium?

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. So we. We live in Atlanta because that's where the aquarium is.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so how much does she make a year?

[John DeLoney]

She makes about 48.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay.

[Torin]

And so you. You're going to have to ask yourself the question. I've worked with academic advisors my whole life. Y'all don't make a bunch of money. And you'll do a ton of work, too.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, she works with sharks.

[Torin]

So you're going to.

[Rachel Cruz]

On the line.

[Torin]

Yeah. You're going to have to ask yourself, because my guess is she is locked into this thing. That's probably not a job that comes open very often. You move wherever you can get that job. That's her world, right?

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Torin]

Okay. Then you have to ask yourself, is being an academic advisor, is that my future, or am I using this as a springboard? Because the university is going to pay for my graduate school so I can go do this thing and do another thing and do another thing. And how quickly can you get on that wagon? Otherwise, you're all gonna be spinning your wheels, man.

[John DeLoney]

Well, I already have my masters. Okay. So.

[Torin]

Yeah, but what do you make? 52,000. I'm sorry, you make 52,000?

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Torin]

Okay. You can make that as a public school teacher in Atlanta, too, and have summers where you can make more money. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's. It's about you saying, okay, I had this dream of being a university official. It's not going to. Even if I became the head of all academic advising, I'm going to make 80 grand, and that's not going to buy you a house in a cool neighborhood in Atlanta. And so it's you reckoning with. Okay, what Must be true for my career. My like.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And I would say for hers too. I'm like, yeah, I mean obviously she's gone to school to be, you know, or she's gotten levels of Rachel.

[Torin]

She's a shark trainer. This thing is not changing. Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

But that's the grown up question though. And it is that reckoning is real for people. Couples all across the, you know, the country. A guy we talked to last hour. It's like, do I, do I take this kind of pay cut to do the job I want or do I go and transfer and we move somewhere to make more money to have a different kind of lifestyle? I mean it's a lifestyle question you guys are asking or I want to.

[Torin]

Be a writer so bad and now chat GPT is here and so my like my market value just went in half.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Torin]

And like so do I want to keep doing this thing?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm not saying like just go chase money and your life is going to be okay. It's more fulfilling than that. But you guys will just have to make some hard decisions because the math has to line up. And you're right to own a home in Atlanta, Georgia. Making 100k, it's gonna be really hard. And again, maybe you guys start off with a not a single family home. Maybe it's a townhouse, maybe it's a condo. Not in the nicest building. Right. I mean like there, there's, there's these other elements of this that you need to look into. But I think that is your next step. Jim. I think home ownership from a financial standpoint is the wisest thing that you guys can do. You guys are out of debt, you have an emergency fund. And for first time home buyers we recommend about 5% to put down and making sure that your payment is no more than 25% of your take home pay. And so that may take you guys another two years to save and get a, you know, a good down payment to get your, to get your monthly payment in a, in a place that you want. I mean but, but I think overall and the beauty is you guys, you know, you don't have kids right now. You know, the world is you guys and you guys are dual income, no kids, the dinks. And you get to make decisions about your life of hey, what do we want to do is this. And that can change over time. But I think that, I mean the math has to work and that's the hard part of all of this. And it is frustrating. I mean things do cost More and, you know, and even look at your lifestyle, too, Jim. I mean, I would be curious from that perspective. I know groceries are expensive, but 800 bucks for just you guys, family of five lives off of that, you know, some months.

[Torin]

So I think it's. I think maybe this is the magic question, Rachel, is what's it worth? What's it worth to you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Torin]

And you ask that question about your two jobs. What's it worth to us? And it's about how we go out to eat.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Torin]

The town it is. The concerts and the baseball games we go to or don't go to. It's the what is all this stuff worth being by family being not what is all this worth to us? And let that dictate some of your questions. And that's. I don't know there's a right or wrong answer for anybody on those, but math doesn't care how you feel. He just doesn't.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thanks, Jim. I hope that helps. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Torin]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This month is all about gratitude, and most of us have people in our lives that we're grateful for. One of those people, for me, is the wonderful Marilyn Fanon. She gave me a chance. She taught me poise and professionalism, and she challenged me. But there's one person that we often don't take time to think. Ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're barely surviving or that we're moving forward or that we're working towards a better life and better relationships. And in a world where everything seems to have gone bonkers, it's not always easy to be grateful. So here's my reminder to thank the people in your life, including you. And sometimes to do that, we need some professional help. We need to talk to someone trained to help us discover true gratitude for ourselves and others, especially in the holiday season. That's why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist at just about anywhere. So it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with the licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This season, let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com DeLoney folks, the.

[Linda]

Ramsey Christmas cash giveaway is here, and you could win big. We're giving away $500 prizes each week and one grand prize of $5,000. Enter daily for your chance to win at Ramsaysolutions.com giveaway. It's that easy. Plus, our 50 Days of Christmas deals is on right now. Get up to 30% off bestsellers and life changing gifts that won't break the holiday budget. R.A. ramseysolutions.com store well, a brand new.

[Rachel Cruz]

Tour just launched with Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney and they're going to be hitting the road with the money and relationships tour.

[Torin]

Be so fun.

[Rachel Cruz]

This is going to be so fun. So we do live events around Ramsey a lot. So we travel and we'll do some here at our event center. But this event specifically, it's a different one because the audience in each city gets to choose the topics, right?

[Torin]

Yes. And you know better than any of us, Dave and I will be on the stage together most of the night and it will be the wild west. And so whenever you're on stage with Dave, if you've never been on stage with Dave Ramsey, you're, you have to know what you're talking about and you just have to be ready.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you never know what's going to happen. Never know sometimes. And with you too, John. When we hosted Money Marriage I was always like, john, you hosted with John. There's like 40% of you just never know what's going to happen. You always have to leave room and Dave's the same way. So it's going to be a very entertaining, very fun event. So if you're in Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth or Kansas City, they are coming to you or any surrounding areas. So to get the dates and the tickets go to Ramsey Solutions.com tour and make sure to check it out, you guys. Again, the money and relationships tour with Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney. They're hitting the road and let me.

[Torin]

Tell you, when we were sitting around Dave's table talking about like what we were going to talk about, we got to laughing so hard. And I thought if we're laughing this hard in here, it's, it's going to be wheels off. It'll be wheels off. If you think you know what a Ramsey event is, show up. It'll be a blast.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's so fun. So, so fun. All right, next up we have Matthew in West Palm Beach. Hey, Matthew, welcome to the show.

[John DeLoney]

Thank you. I appreciate how you guys doing.

[Rachel Cruz]

We're doing well. How can we help?

[John DeLoney]

Fantastic. So I had a quick question. So my wife and I are expecting our first child in December.

[Rachel Cruz]

Congratulations. Soon.

[John DeLoney]

I appreciate that.

[Torin]

Christmas kid.

[Rachel Cruz]

She's real Pregnant.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, she is very pregnant.

[Torin]

You get a baby. John.

[John DeLoney]

We are not.

[Torin]

Boo. It's a girl.

[John DeLoney]

It's a girl.

[Rachel Cruz]

Rachel. Rachel feels right, you know, like in the 80s. Rachel, Nicole. You know, Rachel or Nicole.

[John DeLoney]

I love that. But yeah. So we are trying to figure out what our work life is going to look like. Just a little bit context. I own two small businesses. I work from home. Very flexible life. My wife works a normal 9 to 5 job that she's not thrilled with. So I think it's a really good time for her to kind of take a break, take a little reset and kind of see how everything goes and then, you know, jump back into work if she feels like she wants to. And so she doesn't feel the same way. We're kind of going back and forth about it. She goes, call the Ramsey show. I dare you. Get on the Ramsey Show. So I'm like, you know what? I will get on the Ramsey show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Does she want to work?

[Torin]

Yes. Does she want to work?

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

So she, she wants to work. She's been working since she was 14, but she doesn't love what she does. So I just think it's just a good, a good time in our life. I think we're really set up where she's able to take a small break if she, you know, and then jump back in if she wants to go back to work. Hold on.

[Torin]

There's something beneath that, though.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

For both of you.

[Torin]

You either need to have the courage to say, I always had this picture, that the woman I married would be a stay at home mom, or I, I've been married to you for this many years. Three years, five years, seven years, and you hate your job. And that, that I want to see you smile again. That's underneath the, hey, you know what? I think it's a good time for you to take a break. That's like when someone's like, oh, are you gonna have another cheeseburger?

[Rachel Cruz]

Huh?

[Torin]

Right?

[Rachel Cruz]

You're going back to.

[Torin]

It's a, it's a, it's a proxy war for the truth. And she might be saying, you know, I just, I've been working since I was 14. That might be her saying, I, I'm nervous about your two small businesses and. Or my dad told me I didn't have any worth unless I was gonna.

[Rachel Cruz]

Say, or, I've been working since I was 14 and all I know is to produce and not to produce anymore. I don't know who I would be.

[Torin]

That's right. I mean, and so it's it's getting beneath that saying, here's a map financially where we're going to be okay. I want you to know that I love you more than life itself and you can't earn that anymore. Right. And maybe that's the conversation to have or if you want to keep working, I want you to work in a job that brings you joy and it makes you feel like you have purpose and not something you hate every day. Because I'm scared to have that kind of poison in the house with a newborn thousand percent.

[John DeLoney]

I mean you hit the nail on the head and it definitely stems from her mom was the breadwinner of her family and so she's used to that. Used to the woman working in the home where I came from a household, my mom was a stay at home mom and that's kind of what I'm used to. So yeah, I mean if she wants to go back to work, obviously I would not make her, you know, not work. Obviously. She's, you know, she could do whatever she wants and we could obviously use any income we can get. But I just feel like you want.

[Rachel Cruz]

Her to be the healthiest version of her and that's correct. Not going to a job she hates and or you know, fighting her own demons of gosh, am I, do I have value if I'm not producing or what? Or I'm fearful that you're not going to make enough money. I mean whatever that motivation is for her to work is important to get to because. Or it simply is. D she just enjoys it. Yeah. Going to a job you hate that we don't want that long term for anybody out there. But maybe it's like, yeah, I still. Because I know some women, I mean in there, they can't stand being at home. They're just like, oh my gosh, I function so much better. I'm a better mom if being working or whatever it may be. Right. And then also know, Matthew, you guys are first time parents. Leave your hand open to a lot that can happen because the moment that baby is born, it changes your world. Unlike anything you can ever, ever explain to someone. So her, her viewpoint may change, your viewpoint may change. I mean you just, you never know until that baby's here because I don't know.

[Torin]

Yeah. I always tell new parents, take every major decision three months at a time.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Torin]

Give yourself 90 days to be like, I'm going full stay at home and then you'll recalibrate, put on the calendar.

[Rachel Cruz]

Does she have a good maternity leave and everything with her? And Insurance. Like how from a corporate standpoint, is she.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, she does get three months off. She do have that three month window. And yeah, so I mean, like you said, the 90 days, that makes a lot of sense. So maybe she could stay home to leave.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

See how it goes, you know, but just talking to peers and friends, they're all just like, I wish I had so much more time with our, you know, with my baby. And I feel like we're in a position to take advantage of that. And I know how important.

[Torin]

I know, but you keep using. We don't put your story onto hers. Y'all need to have the conversation about because both of y'all have been saying, we're going to have a baby. And she had a picture of what that meant and it's informed largely by her childhood. You had a picture of what that meant and that was largely informed by your childhood. Y'all need to now do the hard work, which is, can also be really fun if you approach it with curiosity, which is, oh, here was my picture of having a baby. And here was my picture of having a baby. Now let's create one that's going to include both of our pictures so that we're both on the same page. Otherwise she goes back to work and you have this building resentment in your guts that your wife abandoned your kid or she just feels forced to stay home and she starts to resent you because she feels miserable in her house. She feels trapped and lonely in her house. And she really liked the idea of working. It brought her a fuller picture of herself and you stole that from her. Right. So let's make sure we avoid that and just call out at the beginning. No judging the pictures. No judging the pictures. Let's just be curious about them. Oh, man. You thought I was just going to be a stay at home mom? How long have you known me? 10 years. Yeah. I loved how my mom was able to do this, this and this. Oh, I love seeing a picture of my mom working really hard and coming home with projects and so explore that together and then come up with a, with a 90 day plan or a 180 day plan, a six month plan. And then promise each other, put on the calendar and we'll reassess it.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Torin]

And I'll tell you, I have had some of the most gangster co workers ever who are women who had babies and they were going to be back in the office the day after the birthday and they never came back. And they're awesome and they're like, did I help my Baby. And they were like, I ain't going back to your stupid. Whatever you dumb boys are doing at the. At the dumb boardroom table. And then I've met this, the exact opposite. I'm gonna be a stay at home. I'm gonna be a stay at home. And they have that baby. And six months in, they're like, get out of here. Totally. So totally. Just keep your hands open and make sure you'll have the conversation on a regular basis together, because it's going to evolve and shift and change.

[John DeLoney]

Okay? So just keep it fluid. You know, obviously keep communication up. See how the leave goes.

[Torin]

But don't use proxy wars. Don't use proxy.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I'll just say as a woman who works. And I came back two weeks early from maternity leave. My first, because I was. That I was like, oh, my gosh. And I love my job. I'm like, I miss it. I miss being with people. And, you know, so I actually. That versus my third. I actually pulled way back.

[Torin]

You're still not back. I'm totally kidding, Richard. I'm just being ridiculous.

[Rachel Cruz]

I am working. No, but, but so you know, it. I think for women, it can feel like I can't take an off ramp, especially in the corporate world. When I hear this from friends, like, if I get off the exit, I can't get back on. That's how it feels. But you can. Don't limit yourself. Don't have those blinders. Because when you don't have other options, you make bad decisions out of fear and out of what could be. Take that off the table, too. The sky's the limit, so always remember that. And that's more for her, Matthew, not for you. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. This is Rachel Cruz for Helix Sleep. And I gotta say, Winston and I love our Helix mattress. Winston likes a firmer mattress than I do, but differences like that are why Helix has lots of mattress models to choose from. So whether you sleep on your side, your stomach, or your back, Helix has you covered. And one of the best parts for us was taking the personalized Helix Sleep quiz. They matched us with the perfect mattress and it only took two minutes. We also got the Glaciotex cooling cover, which pulls heat away from our bodies while we sleep for the coolest, most comfortable sleep we have ever had. Not to mention our mattress and Topper were all easy to set up and the quality is incredible. Plus, Helix offers a hundred night trial and all mattresses come with either a 10 or 15 year warranty. But here's the best part, the Helix Black Friday sale is happening now. Get 25% off all mattresses and get a free betting bundle on select products. Go to helix sleep.com Ramsey that's helixsleep.com Ramsay with Helix. Better sleep starts now.

[Linda]

Hey guys. Dave Ramsey here and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the money and relationships tour with Dr. John DeLoney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more [e-mail] tour. We broadcast this show live every day.

[Rachel Cruz]

From 1 to 4 right outside of Nashville, Tennessee. And it's played on podcasts and YouTube and it's always fun because the way they we built the studio when we moved into the new building is. It's right in the lobby. The studio is with a big glass wall and people come from all over and we meet people during the breaks from all over the country. We had people from Oregon and California and Florida and in the lobby as well, there is a debt free stage and we have Ryan and Jonna standing on that today. Welcome you guys.

[E]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, congratulations. You're on that stage for one reason and one reason only, because you are debt free.

[John DeLoney]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Congratulations. So how much debt did you guys pay off?

[E]

$198,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Wow. How much money were you making during that time?

[E]

We started at 94,000 and ended about 207.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, and then how long did that take you?

[E]

It took us a little over seven years.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, and what was the almost 200k of debt? What was that? It was our house. Yeah, the house.

[Linda]

Completely.

[Rachel Cruz]

Look at it. It was beautiful. Completely debt free.

[Torin]

Rad house, man.

[Rachel Cruz]

I was gonna say it's a very California looking house. And you guys are from Sacramento?

[E]

We're a little north of Sacramento, two hours north Cottonwood.

[Rachel Cruz]

Having a paid off California home feels impossible is what it seems like.

[E]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Incredible.

[Torin]

What's it worth? About $7 million?

[Rachel Cruz]

We wish.

[E]

No, probably about 4 or 50.

[Torin]

Wow. Amazing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Great job.

[Torin]

How did you double your income?

[E]

God blessed us in a lot of different ways. And I made a small career change and about 10 years ago and I've just kind of slowly he's opened all these doors for me and. And he's just kind of plugged along the same way and.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. What do you guys do?

[E]

I'm A director for County Office of Education.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. I work in the field. Petroleum industry. Okay. Amazing. You guys. Okay, so what happened seven years ago to start this journey of paying off your house? Which is wild.

[John DeLoney]

It is wild.

[Rachel Cruz]

She came home one day and she's.

[John DeLoney]

Like, hey, we're gonna start this Dave Ramsey thing.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I'm like, okay, I've heard of.

[John DeLoney]

Him in the AM radio.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I was like, okay, let's do it.

[John DeLoney]

You know, we always kind of knew.

[Rachel Cruz]

That debt was dumb, and we just started and we.

[John DeLoney]

1, 2, and 3 was pretty quick. And baby steps 1, 2, and 3. And then we just kept rocking and rolling.

[E]

Yeah. You always talk about Gazelle Intensity. And for us, it was like we had a little savings, so we just kind of paid it, you know, paid a chunk off. We had a little credit card. We paid that off and then built up our savings. And we're more of the tortoise.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[E]

The low slow. You know, get it done. Yes. We. I love spreadsheets, so I don't nerd.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, especially with a house and the. And the interest rate and stuff. When you start to see, oh, my gosh, if we can cut this down, how much you're saving, even in just. Interesting. It's motivating.

[E]

Exactly.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely.

[E]

But we kind of saved alongside of that. We had a goal of paying it off and then starting a remodel.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[E]

Those plans changed when we paid off our mortgage on a Friday. And the following, like, two days later, his car blew up. And then three days later, my car blew up.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh.

[E]

So thankfully, mine was covered under a recall, so that was all fine, but we ended up having to write a check for a new car, which, thankfully, we had.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. A used new car.

[E]

A used.

[Torin]

Yeah.

[E]

New to us.

[Rachel Cruz]

New to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

Incredible. I don't know, it just feels like God has laid this path for us. And, you know, because of the principles we've learned, it's just, you know, we've had very little stress. Things come up, and we just go, oh, you know, okay, move along.

[Rachel Cruz]

So, yeah. So during that time when we talk about baby steps to paying off consumer debt, that Gazelle Intensity, and it's just like scorched earth. You're going all in. But when you get to where you guys were, baby steps four or five and six, we say it's more intentional. Right. There's going to be. It's a longer game. Right. Seven years, which is faster than the average Baby Steps millionaire that pays it off in nine. So you guys, you had Some intensity. So what would you say, percentage wise, was like, we're going to throw as much as we can at the house and we're sacrificing some stuff over here versus, like, we still had a life and we still enjoyed things and did stuff with our family, but then had extra that we put towards the house. What was kind of the balance for you guys?

[E]

I don't know. I feel like we did. I mean, we definitely lived. Not bare bones, but we were pretty frugal going through the whole thing. But anytime we would get a raise, we would just take it and kind of. I joke with my co workers that I finally get a paycheck because it's like, it's felt, you know, like we've been working towards this goal for so long, and so now it feels a little surreal. We don't know what to do with ourselves.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Torin]

How long ago did you pay it off?

[E]

We paid it off. We were gonna. We were planning November 1st, and we were sitting at football practice one day, and we looked at each other and went, we're tired of this. And so we just said, we're gonna pay it off tomorrow. So we paid it off in September instead.

[Torin]

So you've had. You've had one, if not two months of both your checks depositing and they're just sitting there?

[E]

Yeah. It feels really weird. That's so wild, you know, the nerd in me. I have spreadsheets built for the next year and a half, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, I can't, you know? Like, it just feels crazy. It feels really crazy.

[Torin]

So what's it like for you? I'm assuming you're not the spreadsheeter. No, not really.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, I can use a spreadsheet.

[John DeLoney]

But she just tells me what I.

[Rachel Cruz]

Can and can spend money on.

[E]

I'm definitely the spender. It's funny because I'm the nerd, but I'm also the spender. He's the saver. He's just like, you know, lives.

[Rachel Cruz]

He's good? Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good. Just to lay low. Yeah.

[Torin]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you feel like your kids felt the effects of it? Meaning, like, their lifestyle and everything? Like, do they. Are they like, oh, mom and dad are rolling in it now we get to, like.

[E]

I don't know. I feel like we. I feel like we had a pretty good balance.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. That's so great. You guys, what was your biggest.

[Torin]

What was your biggest fight you had in seven years?

[Rachel Cruz]

Over money or just. It was a general.

[Torin]

I mean, if you want to talk about the big fights. I'm here for it. Make good radio. Yeah. What's your biggest money disagreement? Spending, purchasing things.

[E]

I don't know that we've, we don't really, we don't really fight about money. We're very on the same page. Yeah, on that we do parent a lot differently.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's for your show. Oh, that's awesome you guys. Congratulations. So how does it feel?

[E]

It feels crazy.

[John DeLoney]

It feels incredible. It's like a weight just getting lifted off their shoulders.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know, the grass is greener. Everything is a lot nicer when it's all paid off and you're not making that payment every month. It's wild. Wild. Oh well, you guys are weird. And we always celebrate the weirdness because I mean seriously, having a paid off house and then you add California to that, that's the extra layer to this in my head of like oh yeah. People feel like that just cannot done. And you guys, you guys did it. Absolutely incredible. Absolutely incredible. Okay, so bring, bring the kids up. So we have. Is it Shelby and Logan? Yes. Yes. And how old are they?

[E]

Logan is 10 and Shelby is 20.

[Torin]

So Logan, you've never known your parents not to be crazy right now you're gonna have two boring rich parents. Fine.

[John DeLoney]

He wants jet skis.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Oh yeah.

[E]

Now is the toy phase of our life because we have cut. We have, you know, we don't have any to big toys or anything like that.

[Torin]

Hey Logan, just between me and you and a couple of million other people, they don't have any more excuses now.

[Rachel Cruz]

They got. They gotta get you some fun stuff, Logan. Okay. Your mom's a spender. I see it. She'll. She'll take you out. Oh, let's talk you guys. So proud of you. I made incredible family. And to do something that is above and beyond what people do in the sacrifice is so real. And you get the reward on it. You live like no one else. The later you get to live and get give like no one else. We are so excited. Baby step seven. Can't believe it. All right, so we have Jonna and Ryan, Shelby and Logan from Sacramento, California. They paid off $198,000 in seven years making 94,000 to 207,000 and that includes their house. So count it down. Let's hear a big debt free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free. Amazing. Incredible. That is so impressive. Always impressive, dude.

[Torin]

Seven years of doing a thing most people in America can't do something for seven minutes without being like, I'm bored. Let's do some.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. Yeah, yeah. Change it up.

[Torin]

Let's scroll something. Yeah. Just, just to get a plan and do it for seven years and then plugging away.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not even a house payment.

[Torin]

You imagine America watching the election results come in either way and not worry that someone's gonna do something to take your house because they can't. Because it's yours. It's amazing, dude. Congratulations, guys.

[Rachel Cruz]

Congratulations. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Linda]

These days the Internet is chock full of so called investing advice from random goobs with zero qualifications. Listen folks, you deserve guidance from someone who knows what the flip they're talking about. That's why I recommend the Smartvestor program. Smartvestors can help you find a professional financial advisor who can teach you to make your own best decisions with your own money. Get [e-mail] Smartvestor again Ramsaysolutions.com Smartvestor Ramsey.

[Rachel Cruz]

Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros.

[Torin]

Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor hey, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel Cruz. So here's a trend out and if you've listened to my show, Rachel, over the last couple of years, I've taken more and more, more calls about people struggling with gambling, more gambling and more gambling. And now as sports betting. As municipalities and cities and states have been wanting to get in on the gambling action, more and more places are legalizing sports betting, especially on their phones. And check this out, dude, this is an article here just says Americans spend more money betting on sports than investing in stocks. Recent data reveals that since sports betting has become legalized in much of the US Households are diverting their income to gambling rather than investing in the stock market. Net investments have dropped 14%. As in 2023 alone, the American sports betting industry hit a record breaking $10.9 billion in revenue. So can I say this?

[Rachel Cruz]

Wild cats, dude, as a woman, a girl, I don't know. As a woman, I don't understand. I don't understand it. Now going to Vegas and I've admitted it on the show and, and rolling some dice and playing some craps is so fun.

[Torin]

It is. Single biggest loss I've ever taken in my life was standing next to Rachel Cruz at a craps table.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sometimes it doesn't always happen, but when you get on a, when you get on a hot streak, it's like so fun because everyone's cheering. You're making everyone money. It's, it is a fun entertainment moment. When you bet on sports, you do nothing for the, like you're not, you don't get to participate in it. That's what I don't understand. The fun is. It's more fun when you're betting and like you're the one playing the game.

[Torin]

Yeah, but you're missing out on. This is like the whole sports industry of America is an. Instead of going out like my dad, my dad, I have these vivid memories of going when I was a kid to my dad had, was always in a softball league, always into something. We don't do that anymore. We pay men, other grown men and women, bajillions of dollars to play sports for us. Now we pay them to like make us money. To make us money or to lose money. Right. We, we've outsourced everything.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. And now there's commercials for sports. What's the one? I don't know. I don't know much about it. But it's the.

[Torin]

I don't want to give anyone.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, but you, but, but that's what's crazy to me is now you wouldn't, you didn't see that 10 years ago, but the commercials now for it. I'm like, oh my gosh.

[Torin]

38 states have legalized gambling and it's become a growth industry, generating more than 120 billion in total.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh.

[Torin]

And like I said, 10.8 11 billion.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. In one year. No.

[Torin]

120 billion total bets. Yeah. In 11 billion revenue, one year. Yeah. And investing has taken a hit. And so there's an average 7.7% of households made online bets of one of these studies with about eleven hundred dollars a year. And it's. It, here's, here's the challenge and here's the deal. They know this about lottery. It impacts low income people more. Right. If you don't, if, if you don't owe anybody on your house a house payment, if you don't owe anybody credit cards, if you've got a stable job, you can go to Vegas and spend a couple hundred bucks and lose it. And it's annoying. And you can go, ah, man, yeah, sure, sure. If you don't have $200 to gamble because that's your light and your water bill. And yet you think, man, if I hit this could change everything for me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Torin]

It's an outsized impact on you for doing the same exact behavior. Right. This study says that financially constrained households are particularly noticing the negative effects here.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I think what's hard too, this is what I don't like about gambling, the lottery, any, anything, anytime you are delegating out winning financially to someone else or to a system is as you're putting your hope in something that, that there's. There's no payoff in. Right. It's different when you're investing over a period of time because there is a proven track record that you will, your money will make a track record in the lottery.

[Torin]

Somebody wins, Maybe it's going to be me this time.

[Rachel Cruz]

But every time you put money in the market, for the most part, over time, over the long haul, your money's going to make money. But for gambling, the lottery, all of it, it is like this quick. It's a quick win idea that my life is going to change because of this one play that I'm doing. And that's so much easier than playing the longer game financially.

[Torin]

And check this out as it applies to the message that Dave's been talking about for 30 years. Increase in betting and consumption drives an increase in financial instability in terms of decreased credit availability and increased credit card and a higher incidence of overdrawn accounts. What does that mean? People are putting. Now that it's all so easy on your phone, everyone's just putting on the credit card. They're just, they're just taking out money and putting it on bets. And people are going into debt to make financial bets, which. And you lose. And I got to make it back, dude. So I'm going to take out another loan. And now I find myself way over my head.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Yep. Because what is it? I mean, I think the same is true, like when you buy something, right? The, the excitement, the dopamine. But when you're betting, there's the anticipation.

[Torin]

The anticipation, the anticipation and then boom. And then the payoff.

[Rachel Cruz]

And which is what your cortisol. Like, what's the. Like what's going on?

[Torin]

I mean, the nerdiness doesn't matter as much as you have a biochemical response in your body that begins to build that apprehension, apprehension, apprehension. And the great Anna Lemke describes it as a teeter totter. The more on one side of the teeter totter, your body's way of leveraging it is to. Is pain. It hurts, right? It's the next morning after a bender. It. You are in physical pain. And the only way people sometimes handle that pain is by doing it again, right? Is increasing it again. And you just get on this teeter totter of. Of anticipation, anticipation, and then wham. And it drops you below baseline. And so of your dopamine Falls off a cliff.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right. And is that where the addiction starts to play in? Because some people I know, it's like.

[Torin]

They addiction is, I don't want to hurt hurt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Torin]

Right. And so I'm going to come up with a behavior. Instead of dealing with that core hurt, I'm going to come up with a behavior and my body's going to begin to automate a behavior that helps hurt less. And unfortunately, it comes to addiction, you need more and more of that behavior to cover up higher and higher amounts of pain of your body trying to equalize itself. Right. Get back to equilibrium. And it just hurts on top of hurts on top of hurts. And you find yourself. I'm putting sports gambling on a credit card. Right. It's a mess, mess, mess, mess, mess. What a mess we're in. What does this mean? Don't gamble unless you can set that money on fire in your living room and you can laugh about it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Torin]

Right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally. Yes. Yeah, we always say that. I mean, if there's anything that you're doing financially that has a big risk, gambling would be one. Playing craps when you're in Vegas once a year, I would include that. Yeah. Crypto, I would put crypto in the same bucket. Like anything that does not have a long term track record, anything that has a high level of risk for you to lose that money, even investing in a friend's business or something come to you with this idea. Hey, hey, hey.

[Torin]

Make sure you've got the other side of the barbell.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. So that's the point is like anytime you're going to do any of these, like, risky level moves financially to your point, emotionally, you have to be able to set that money on fire. And you're, you're fine. Meaning you're out of debt, you have a fully funded emergency fund, you are investing 15 of your income into retirement. So instead of investing going down, the amount of people investing going down, it needs to be the opposite for you. If you're not investing, you need to get yourself in a place where you are because that is a proven track record for your money to make money in the long term. And if you have kids, you're saving for college, you know, you're, you're paying off the house. And once the house is paid off, then it's like, okay, I have disposable income, we are in a solid place financially that we're not going to harm ourselves by, you know, putting, you know, a small amount of money and this, that, or that, you know, playing this, playing that, but just know what you're getting into as well and know yourself. There's a level of self awareness that like if you do have that kind of personality that you know yourself, that you're going to keep going, healing. Just don't, just.

[Torin]

I like to say any sort of advice needs to be for fun, not for strategy.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's great, John.

[Torin]

So if you, if you, if you want to have a drink with your buddies and you all laugh real loud, you tell those stories, great. If drinking makes you feel better at the end of the day, you need to deal with that. If it's a way you can deal with. I remember this is a. Gosh, this is going to get dark. I, I used to give a survey to my grad students and I remember every year I started stopping the conversation because one of the questions was I need three or four drinks or two or three drinks to engage in some sort of sexual activity. I remember saying, hey, if you have to drink to override your body's natural brake system, don't do that, right? If you have to gamble to feel alive again, go talk to somebody, right? Because I want you to feel alive in your own skin. So it can be fun, but don't use it as a strategy.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's a great point. So good. Well, thank you guys for listening and watching. If you're on podcast or YouTube, this is it for you. But make sure to go over to the Ramsey Network app. It is completely free and you will get the third hour of the show there. If you're listening on traditional radio, we are still with you. Thank you, America. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Torin]

Hey, you're still here.

[Rachel Cruz]

What are you doing?

[Linda]

You do know that the rest of.

[Torin]

Today'S show is playing right now over.

[Rachel Cruz]

On the Ramsey Network app, right?

[Linda]

All you gotta do to finish the.

[John DeLoney]

Episode is search Ramsey Network in the.

[Torin]

App store, Google Play store or just.

[Rachel Cruz]

Click the link in the show notes to download the app for free.

[Torin]

Yep, you heard me right, for free.

[Linda]

Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom.

[Torin]

Alright, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy.

[John DeLoney]

We'll see you on the app.