We’re $100K in Debt and Living in a Camper

Summary

The Ramsey Show

Episode: We’re $100K in Debt and Living in a Camper
Date: February 4, 2026
Hosts: Ken Coleman & George Campbell (with guest appearances by Dave Ramsey and Andy Irwin)

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Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show dives deep into real-world financial dilemmas faced by callers—most notably, a young couple living in a camper grappling with over $100,000 in debt at just 22 years old. Through a mix of practical advice, tough love, and empathetic coaching, Ken Coleman and George Campbell walk listeners through the steps to regain control over their finances, break free from the cycle of debt, and build a life of intentionality and hope. Noteworthy segments include tackling huge vehicle debts, navigating family support dilemmas, dealing with high-interest loans, and more. The episode also features a candid interview with Andy Irwin and Bart Millard about their new film, "I Can Only Imagine 2".

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Camper Debt Crisis: Travis in Huntsville, Alabama

(Begins ~00:51)

• Situation: Travis, 22, and his wife are $100,000 in debt (truck, camper, wife's car), make $70,000/yr, live with 2 kids in a state park camper, and pay no rent due to volunteering.
• Breakdown:
  • $75k truck (now $60k owed, $1,200/mo payment, worth $36k—$24k underwater).
  • Camper: Owes $23k, worth ~$10k ($13k underwater).
  • Wife’s car: $16k owed.
• Main Dilemma: Completely underwater on the truck/camper and unsure how to escape while housing their family.

Advice:

• Immediate Focus: Get $1,000 in emergency savings (“Baby Step One”).
• Sell Assets: Explore selling the truck first since it’s no longer needed for travel, even if it means taking out a smaller loan for the difference to clear the title.
• Housing Plan: Consider safe, affordable rentals or living with church/family temporarily; don’t trade financial freedom for “free” but depreciating housing.
• Work Hard: Travis may need multiple jobs to expedite the debt payoff.
• Key Quote:

  “You’re essentially paying $1,700 right now for rent, because the trailer, truck, and camper are sinking.” —George Campbell [05:25]

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2. Parent PLUS Loans vs. Credit Card Debt: Marie in NYC

(Begins ~10:24)

• Situation: Marie asks whether to continue early Parent PLUS loan payments or divert funds to $7,200 in credit card debt, while managing a mortgage and a small car loan.
• Advice:
  • Make only minimum payments on the Parent PLUS loans until they’re required, to avoid ballooning interest.
  • Focus excess payments on credit cards (debt snowball method), then car, then student loans.
  • Pausing investing during this period is advised.
• Motivational Boost: Marie is making ~$110k working two jobs; George and Ken encourage her to stick with it, aiming for debt freedom in 18–24 months.
• Notable Quote:

  “The steps are simple, but the work and the sacrifice is hard.” —Ken Coleman [19:24]

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3. Helping Family Without Enabling: John in Charlotte, NC

(Begins ~21:44)

• Situation: John and his wife want to help her financially struggling mother and sister but worry about enabling vs. truly helping.
• Coaching:
  • Only help if recipients request assistance and display readiness for change.
  • Don’t invest in solutions (e.g., paying for childcare) without commitment on their end.
• Notable Quote:

  “Until they are at a breaking point... I don’t know that they’re ready for it yet.” —George Campbell [27:11]

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4. First Apartment Fears: Jonathan in Fairfax, VA

(Begins ~28:01)

• Situation: New RN with ~$90k income, living at home, considering $1,500/mo rent vs. continuing to stay with parents.
• Strategy:
  • Rent alone would be ~25% of take-home pay—a reasonable ratio.
  • Explore roommates to cut costs.
  • Don’t let fear of change prevent progress toward independence.
• Fun Banter:

  “It’s scary to fly the coop, Ken. He’s comfy.” —George Campbell [31:06]

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5. 25% APR Car Loan Disaster: Kathy in Minneapolis

(Begins ~33:06)

• Situation: Husband refinanced to consolidate debt, got 25% interest on $17,000 for the car, and did not communicate the decision.
• Advice:
  • Attack this crisis aggressively: spouse should take whatever extra jobs necessary.
  • If possible, use a credit union to refinance at a lower rate, but likely not feasible due to bad credit.
  • Sell the car if/when possible and resolve underwater situation; minimize future financial emergencies with stronger teamwork.
• Notable Quote:

  “It’s not one thing. It is death by a thousand cuts that got us there.” —George Campbell [41:52]

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6. Rebuilding After Scams & Divorce: Sabrina in Atlanta

(Begins ~44:55)

• Situation: 54-year-old single mom, lost retirement savings in a scam perpetrated by ex-husband, sold home, is starting over with moderate savings but some debt.
• Steps:
  • Pay off credit cards ASAP.
  • Use CD maturity to pay off car; free up cash flow.
  • Use remaining savings as emergency fund.
  • Invest for retirement with realistic timeline (likely into late 60s).
  • Seek professional help to grow her organizing business.
• Empowerment:

  “Why don’t we call this a new slate and say this is post-ex Sabrina. She’s starting a new chapter.” —George Campbell [49:17]

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7. Risk & Job Cycles: Brandon in Oklahoma City (Oil & Gas Income Swings)

(Begins ~54:40)

• Situation: Cyclical layoffs in oil/gas make Brandon hesitant to use savings to pay off $70k total debt (~$40k in savings).
• Advice:
  • Debt is the bigger risk, especially when tied to property collateral.
  • Use savings to pay off as much debt as possible (prioritizing those tied to property), then hustle to rebuild the emergency fund.
• Notable Quote:

  “You’ve been afraid of the wrong things.” —Ken Coleman [62:27]

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8. AI in Tax Preparation: Carol in Denver

(Begins ~66:46)

• Situation: Carol wonders if she should allow her accounting firm to use AI (some parts overseas) in tax planning.
• Advice:
  • It’s becoming standard for firms to use AI to streamline admin work.
  • Ask pointed questions about privacy/security; choose a provider you trust.
• Notable Quote:

  “If you’re not comfortable with it, just go. ‘No, thank you.’” —George Campbell [68:56]

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9. Inherited Home—or Debt Solution?: Stephanie in Detroit

(Begins ~69:53)

• Situation: Considering whether to keep/renovate a newly inherited lake house that’s not ideally located (would commute, out of school district), while also living in a trailer and carrying $60k in debt.
• Advice:
  • Reverse engineer the decision: If you wouldn’t buy it now, don’t keep it.
  • Use the proceeds to erase debt, fund a down payment, and set up for future stability.
• Memorable Moment:

  “For those reasons, I’m out.” —George Campbell (Shark Tank style) [75:25]

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10. Retiring Early: Ryan in Salt Lake City

(Begins ~87:42)

• Situation: Wants to retire at 40; makes ~$210k/yr, 2 kids, minimal savings (paid off debt recently).
• Plan:
  • Get entirely out of consumer debt.
  • Build up an emergency fund.
  • Invest at least 15%, then increase to a brokerage after the house is paid off.
  • Caution: FIRE “retire early” enthusiasts often get bored or underestimate true costs.
• Notable Quote:

  “There is this built-in desire, in our spirit, in our soul, to make a contribution.” —Ken Coleman [95:17]

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11. Film Interview: "I Can Only Imagine 2"

(Begins ~107:57)

• Guests: Andy Irwin (director), Bart Millard (MercyMe frontman, producer)
• Discussed the challenge of making a sequel, themes of overcoming adversity, and how the song “Even If” inspired the story arc.
• Fun Fact: Some scenes filmed at Ramsey’s campus, with Dave Ramsey’s voice cameo.
• Memorable Moment:

  “Life is messy… it’s learning to live with grief or stress or worry and gratitude at the same time.” —Bart Millard [115:50]

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12. Other Notable and Uplifting Moments

• “Death by a thousand cuts” theme—many callers realize their big debt hole came from a series of small, manageable decisions gone wrong.
• Honest reflection on family and children’s quality of life vs. hyper-saving for retirement (Trent in Idaho, starting at [119:05]), arguing for balance and intentionality.
• Celebration: Promotions of ways to celebrate debt-free milestones, including Ramsey cruises and events—a lighthearted moment between hosts, [97:36].
• Consistent Ramsey Takeaway: Use intentionality, patience, and sacrifice—not shortcuts—to break free from debt and reclaim your future.

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• “You’re essentially paying $1,700 right now for rent, because the trailer, truck, and camper are sinking.” —George Campbell [05:25]
• “The steps are simple, but the work and the sacrifice is hard.” —Ken Coleman [19:24]
• “It’s not one thing. It is death by a thousand cuts that got us there.” —George Campbell [41:52]
• “Why don’t we call this a new slate and say this is post-ex Sabrina. She’s starting a new chapter.” —George Campbell [49:17]
• “You’ve been afraid of the wrong things.” —Ken Coleman [62:27]
• “For those reasons, I’m out.” —George Campbell [75:25]
• “There is this built-in desire, in our spirit, in our soul, to make a contribution.” —Ken Coleman [95:17]
• “Life is messy… it’s learning to live with grief or stress or worry and gratitude at the same time.” —Bart Millard [115:50]

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Timestamps of Main Segments

• Camper Debt & Housing: 00:51 – 09:01
• Parent PLUS Loans vs. Cards: 10:24 – 19:19
• Helping Family Member Dilemma: 21:44 – 28:01
• First Solo Apartment Anxiety: 28:01 – 33:06
• Refinanced Car Loan at 25%: 33:06 – 41:29
• Single Mom, Post-Divorce Finances: 44:55 – 53:09
• Cyclical Oil Industry & Debt Risks: 54:40 – 64:26
• AI in Tax Prep: 66:46 – 69:53
• Inherited Lake House Decision: 69:53 – 75:17
• Retiring at 40 Reality Check: 87:42 – 96:09
• Film Segment: "I Can Only Imagine 2" 107:57 – 117:26

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Ramsey Principles Highlighted

• Baby Steps: Emergency fund, debt snowball, pause investing, then aggressively attack mortgage and invest more.
• No shortcuts: Hard work & sacrifice is required; selling depreciating assets often makes more sense than holding on.
• Communication in Marriage and with Family: Addressing decisions together prevents isolation and financial fumbles.
• Intentionality: Drifting equals average results; winning with money is the fruit of active, intentional planning.
• Quality of Life Matters: Don’t let the “savings rat race” prevent a fulfilling present for your family.
• Community & Accountability: Regular reminders that financial freedom = peace of mind and options, not just “retirement”.

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Tone & Style

• Warm, yet direct "tough love" Ramsey advice.
• Hosts mix humor with real talk, empathetic listening, and motivating encouragement.
• Stories of struggle meet hope—whether facing a $100,000 truck debt, a 25% car loan, or rebuilding after a scam.

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This episode provides powerful, step-by-step financial wisdom for anyone dealing with debt, risk, or tough financial life transitions—along with inspiration to keep going, no matter how hard the journey feels.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. The phone number to jump in today. 8888-2552-2588-5225. Alongside the really, really sharply dressed George.

[George Campbell]

Ken, I always like to see what adjective you're going to use on me today.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, I got distracted from the adjective was looking at that shacket. That's a well appointed shacket, George, as always. I'm Ken Coleman. We're here together for you.

[George Campbell]

So looking good is half the battle, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

It really is. So you're prepared as well. All right, let's go to Travis in Huntsville, Alabama. Travis, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, I am in $100,000 of debt and I'm 22. I have two kids, but I make about 70,000 a year.

[Andy Irwin]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Tell us more. What kind of debt is 100,000? Break it down for us.

[Caller]

Well, the first one was my, I guess my 20 year old idiot purchase, which was at the time when I first got it, it was about a $75,000 truck from a loan rolled over. Now it's about at 60,000. I pay 1200amonth on it. My second one is a $23,000 camper. Started at 30,000. Pay that about 500amonth on it. And then the last one is a car for my wife which I currently owe about 16,000 on.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and what is your goal today? What's the, what's the heart of the question?

[Caller]

Well, I guess so we, me and my wife have been talking a lot about getting rid of the truck because the reason we have the camper in the truck to begin with is because we were traveling on the road. I did just, I worked for a renovation company doing renovating government buildings. Made a lot of money the first year. Contracts died out, you know, just slowed down. Had to find another job back home where we had a little more stability. But we still live in the camper and then the truck is the way to move the camper around, so.

[George Campbell]

Got it. So you're living in the camper full time. You're not renting, you don't have a home.

[Caller]

Okay, we're not renting. So we, and we actually don't pay for rent at the campground because we volunteer for state parks.

[George Campbell]

Cool. So that kind of covers the fee. They, they kind of make it a.

[Ken Coleman]

Wash. And I'm guessing you don't move around much anymore. You're not moving this camper much.

[Caller]

No, not very far. Just around like, you know, like an hour from Huntsville. Right now we're an hour, so we're kind of far, but we can move back in a couple months.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And your wife is at home with the kids.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Not working outside the home. Okay, so 70k is what we're making. We've got 100k in debt. Have you looked into what the truck is currently worth? What the camper is currently worth? You sold it private?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. So the private value on the Kelly blue book website is 36. So it's. It's just I'm really underwater.

[George Campbell]

24 underwater on the truck. And then what about the camper?

[Caller]

The camper, I don't know how much they depreciate. Honestly, I haven't looked into it.

[George Campbell]

They depreciate a whole lot, that's for sure. I think it's worth 10 or 15, 20.

[Caller]

I might be able to get 10 out of it. And that would leave me a 13.

[George Campbell]

Yep. So total, doing the math, you are $37,000 underwater on these vehicles, meaning you cannot get rid of these until you come up with the difference somehow to clear the title.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Campbell]

There's two ways you can do that.

[Ken Coleman]

I have a question as I'm listening here to George talk with you. Have you run the numbers on, on, on the most affordable rent? Because you're already living in a trailer, so you make 70,000. It's not chump change. What would rent cost you?

[Caller]

There's some places where I think we could get it for a thousand, but some of those places with kids, I just wouldn't feel safe putting them in. And I know my wife would.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, but you went to the worst common denominator. So what I'm asking you is I would never recommend you put your family in a place where your kids are unsafe. So let's re. Ask the question. What does rent look like in a place where you don't feel like your kids are under threat?

[Caller]

I would say maybe, maybe somewhere between 14 to 1600.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Have you run a budget on what that could you, you know, what would that do to your budget with your take home?

[Caller]

Yeah, it would, you know, I get 5,000amonth. That minus the car payment would be, you know, say we had 1500 rent to. I get three, three brand back a month, including expenses. But.

[Ken Coleman]

And the reason I'm walking through this with you, Travis, George, I Mean, I wanted George to hear that ratio, but the reality is, is like, you've got to get rid of this trailer.

[George Campbell]

You're essentially paying $1700 right now for rent.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Campbell]

Because the trailer truck and camper are sinking.

[Ken Coleman]

The camper's losing value. So that's why I want you and George. Is that too aggressive? I'd like for him to. Let's find a place to live and get renting and let's get rid of.

[George Campbell]

Because if you sell the camper, you housing. And so we've got to solve for that problem. The good news is the truck can go sooner because we don't technically need it right now. The issue is we need that money either through savings, through future income, or through a loan from your local credit union. Is your credit good enough to get a loan from a credit union right now?

[Caller]

Not really. Like I said, when we were out of contracts, I was out of work for about six months in Seattle, and so I went. It was just a couple months of trying to get unemployment just to stay above water and knocking doors.

[George Campbell]

But do you have anything in savings right now or anything you could sell?

[Caller]

Anything I could sell? I don't really have anything I could sell, per se. We have a camper, so every. We kind of live minimalistic as much as possible. Don't really have anything in the camper. I mean, besides Hobby Lobby.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Artwork.

[George Campbell]

And nothing in your savings account, Correct.

[Caller]

I have a little bit I'm working on. Baby step one. I believe it's getting $1,000.

[George Campbell]

Correct.

[Caller]

And in the thinkout, so we have maybe 300. And then I have a couple Roth. Two Roth IRAs and 401K, which I'm not going to touch.

[George Campbell]

Good. Okay, well, you're speaking the right language here. We got to get the thousand bucks first. Then we need to solve for this truck because that'll free you of 1200 bucks. And so even if you go take out a $24,000 loan, it's better than what you got right now.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

At 60k. And so that's your next goal. Once you get the thousand bucks, and that's going to take some time, this is not going to be like, hey, we can just go do all of this tomorrow. But you're going to need to explore all of your options and try to get top dollar for these so that you can get out of this faster. And that might mean you're working two more jobs. Yeah, that's not going to be fun for the next year or two to clean this up. But that's the only solution I'm seeing here. To get you out of this without, you know, dangerous shortcuts.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm just going to reemphasize. Travis, the first step here is you've got to find a place to live so we can sell the camper.

[Caller]

Yeah, let's go.

[George Campbell]

Any family nearby?

[Caller]

We have some church family, but we, we wouldn't be able to stay with them long term. All my other family has same, same deal. Not really. Not really fit to stay there. One, one factor I didn't mention that I've been thinking about is my old boss. He lives here in Alabama. He lives fairly close and he has offered to. Anytime I need to move the camper to, he would let me use his truck for that. The one thing I would worry about. He's very dependable and reliable, but you never know what's going to happen. He could move, he. It could be broken down. But I was thinking if we could take care of the camper, we could still be able to kind of live rent, rent free essentially, if we can.

[George Campbell]

Have a. I think this is just. We're still in short term thinking now we got to think about the bigger picture and getting out of this life we created, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, Marie is up next in New York City. Marie, how can we help today?

[Caller]

So I have a question in regards to Parent plus loans and if I should pause on paying them because my children are still in school. They are technically not due yet, but I've been paying the amount that they said I would owe, but I Do have credit card debt. So I'm wondering, do I put a pause on paying the parent plus loans because they're not technically due yet and take that money I was paying to that and put that towards my credit card debt to get my credit card debt to go down faster.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that the only debt you have as credit card?

[Caller]

I have a small car loan that I pay 240amonth towards, and I probably owe about $3,800 left on the car. And I have $7,200 in credit card debt, the parent plus loans. And I have a mortgage of 100 that has about $150,000 left on it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. Are you familiar with our baby steps?

[Caller]

Yes, I have $1,000 saved.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great.

[George Campbell]

Good. And what was the total amount for the parent plus loans?

[Caller]

55,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And I'm assuming that's broken out across some different loans, or is it all one giant loan?

[Caller]

No, it's two children, three different loans.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Or four different loans, maybe.

[George Campbell]

Great. So this would still fall into your debt snowball, regardless if they're asking for payments or not. Because here's the truth. The interest is still accruing. And so the more we kick this cane down the road, the more that balance is going to balloon. You're going to wake up to have a $65,000 loan. And so this would just fall right into your debt snowball. So list out your debts. Smallest to largest is the credit cards. Is that multiple cards to make up the 72?

[Caller]

There's two cards, yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so like a few grand each.

[Caller]

Yeah. There's two cards. One has 4700 and the rest is on the other one.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So this becomes pretty simple. We're going to knock out that first credit card, then the car payment, then the second credit card, and then start attacking these parent plus loans.

[Caller]

Okay. But still keep making those.

[George Campbell]

Make the minimum payments that that they offer. Is there a minimum payment that you can pay so it's just not required?

[Caller]

Correct? Yeah. Like they originally had said, oh, if you started paying today, you should pay this amount. You should pay three or five a month. So that's what I've been paying.

[George Campbell]

Good. I would continue down that path and just keep doing minimums and all of your debts except the smallest one and attack it. Because I'm looking at all of these debts. Are you close to like 70 grand in debt right now without the mortgage? Okay. And what do you guys make a year? What's your household income?

[Caller]

I make. I have two jobs. I make 110 between both of them.

[George Campbell]

Fantastic. Well, there's some good news. So we can clean this up pretty fast. I mean, if you can throw, let's say, 35, 40 grand a year of your net income towards this, you're done in two years.

[Caller]

That would be amazing.

[George Campbell]

That's it. And so I think part of this, Ken, it's hard to just like, peel back and look at the big picture versus just staring at all of the variables and debts in front of you.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let's talk about the big picture, because you just hit her with that 35 to 40,000 a year. And it's almost like, Marie, we could hear that you were stunned by that. You laughed and said, that would be nice. So let's talk about why we got George with us here on the budget. He's the budget guru. Is that believable to you? It felt like it was almost unbelievable.

[Caller]

It's a little unbelievable because I. And I feel that I. I work really hard. I have two jobs, so. And I listen to you guys and what you say about. And I've been doing the debt snowball. So I just got rid of one credit card last week. So that was a little celebration. Yay. But the. So my mortgage, I only owe 150, but my mortgage takes like $2,200 a month.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. That's why I wanted to lean in, because, you know, George is taking a shot there. But if, let's say, George, we use your number of 35, that's just about 3,000. A little bit less than 3,000amonth net. So realistically, Maria, Marie, if you are very disciplined, to the best of your knowledge, right now, what do you think you could put away every month with.

[George Campbell]

The two jobs making the minimums plus the extra.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

What could you throw at all this debt?

[Caller]

I usually. I mean, and I hear you, and. And I think you are probably right, but it almost sounds impossible, you know, when you're sitting on this side. Because I do Pay, you know, $1,000 to the credit card, and I do work extra or overtime at the first step.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's why. That's why I'm pushing in a little bit. I wanted to see if it is doable. So could you. What is the most money you could commit? We're not holding you to this. An exercise while we have you. What do you think is the most. I'm talking, like, extreme budgeting, saving, cutting expenses everywhere. To George's question, after you pay the minimums and your four walls, what do you think you could put on debt every Month? What number?

[Caller]

I probably could put $1,000 a month.

[George Campbell]

On top of your minimums is what you're saying.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, great. Because I'm doing the math here. 2750 gets you out of debt in 24 months. If you're doing all the minimums plus the extra, that should add up to 27. Now. Two. Two years. That was just. I'm just throwing something out there. On average, we find that people who follow our plan to a T, we're talking baby steps, budgeting, using every dollar, making the sacrifices. 18 to 24 months is the average. And based on the numbers you threw at me, with your $110,000 income, seven, you know, 66 grand in debt. You are right there. That's going to be 18 to 24 months of sacrifice. And at first you're going to feel like you're not making progress, but I'm telling you, month after month, in six months, you're going to have a few debts knocked out. Think about that. You free up the payments. Now we're throwing it at the next debt. And so the snowball starts to roll, and by the end, you are just. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I love it. How about we just. That was a great locker room speech, George, even though you never played sports.

[George Campbell]

I don't think I've been in a locker room other than me getting bullied and want to make.

[Ken Coleman]

So what do. So what if we give her Breaking Free from Broke? Because I think that's a mindset book in her situation. You like that? It's your book.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. That'll get you fired up about your debt, give you the path out in my voice. So there's a lot of jokes in there because you got to have fun along the way, Marie. And what you've created right now is not fun. Taking on the parent plus loans, which is a noble thing to do. You want to help your kids. But here's the kicker. That debt is in your name. The kids don't legally ever have to pay a dime, and the interest rates are higher. And so these are not going away. Even if it's, you know, the payment is deferred, the interest is still accruing, and it is brutal.

[Ken Coleman]

So I want to do a follow up on behalf of our larger audience. Okay. Because for the minutia, sometimes I want to make sure people get the principal. So in Marie's situation, you told her to continue making what the minimum payments would be, even though that they're not asking for that money. Right. Now, why did you give. Why would we give that advice as opposed to saying, do the snowball on everything else but that? Why that advice, George?

[George Campbell]

Well, if you're not making any payments at all and the interest is accruing, you've got a double whammy situation. That's right, because you are not moving the needle at all with the principal. And so the only thing moving the needle is interest adding to your balance.

[Ken Coleman]

And.

[George Campbell]

And we hear those stories because people, they weren't taught how interest works, especially when you're not making a payment. And so if you go punch the numbers into an interest calculator, you will find that balance will balloon and who knows how long they'll be in school? What if they're in school for another six years?

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And so you've got to just start creating the habit of knocking out this debt systematically. And the debt snowball method is the way to do it. So just ignore the interest rates because the way you're going to hack this thing, the interest isn't going to add up that fast over the next 18 months.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I thought it was. I thought it was interesting to hear her brain and her react. It was really fun to hear that. Wow, that would be nice. When we pressed in, right now she's thinking $1,000 a month. I got a hunch. And Marie's still on the line. I think she could get more than a thousand dollars out of that budget. What do you think, based on your experience?

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I mean, if you take 110 grand, minus your taxes, and you're going to pause all investing, so you're just going to, you know, pay your health care, if that's through your job and all that. But whatever comes home, that's your number. Now that we've got to figure out. You got 2,200 in your mortgage. Okay, Whatever's left, how little can we live on to throw as much as we can at the debt?

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So four walls plus insurance, Anything else that can go. Everything else is a luxury at this point.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

And kudos. Marie is working two jobs, folks. I mean, so this is Superwoman here.

[George Campbell]

She's hustling.

[Ken Coleman]

In this case, you're looking to sell everything you can possibly sell. What if you can sell 5,7000, maybe as much as 8 to $10,000 worth of stuff? That again, reduces that timeline. So again, we have a lot of new people joining us all the time and trying to understand the practicality of these steps. Listen, we didn't say it was easy. The steps are simple, but the work and the sacrifice is hard. But boy oh boy, you heard how she reacted when George said, I think I could get out in 24 months. That's exciting stuff. The quicker you get out, the quicker you move on in your life with the dreams that you want to achieve.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Sometimes it seems like everyone else's love life is this perfect little Hallmark movie. Here's the truth. Married, dating or single and trying to figure it out. Everyone is wrestling with what it means to be in a relationship. I've been married for 23 and a half years. I've got a PhD. My wife has a PhD and we have all the answers and we're still trying to figure out how to keep our marriage on track. Both of us have been benefited greatly from time with a good therapist. No matter if you've just met someone or if you've been married forever like I have, therapy can help you find your way in a relationship, identify what you want, what feels heavy, and how you can take some pressure off yourself and build a strong relationship. To do all of this, I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and your preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions through the platform and if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime at no extra cost. When it comes to love and relationships, everyone is still finding their way. Find yours with my friends at better help. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Ramsey.

[George Campbell]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

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[Caller]

Hey guys, thanks for having me on the show. So my wife's mother and sister not as well off financially as usual and we're coming up in our own financial journey to a point where we may be able to help them, but we're having an issue when we talk about it because. And please, I don't want to paint them in a bad light. I love them. They're great people, but in a lot of aspects of their lives, they are very much. We can't right now because people, you wouldn't understand because we've got three kids. You don't. That kind of thing. What is something that we could do when we get to the point that we can. That we could help these people, that we're not crossing a boundary, but we're also not enabling bad financial decisions?

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well, you answer that question. Is there. Let me flip this on and I'm gonna set you up. Sorry, I didn't mean to just.

[George Campbell]

You answered.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you. No, you called us. You tell us. No, here's what I want to know. You've already laid out George, and I know exactly what you're saying. You're not in any way attacking them. However, here's my question for you. Let's just fast forward into this future that you just mentioned where you're going to have some extra money. Is that. What am I. Is that me understanding correctly what you're saying?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. We're about $38,000 down, and we got about 30 to go.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, I know. Don't worry about that. We're going to fast forward to your heart of your question. Okay, let's fast forward to this future where you have some margin, to where you could help them financially. In what area would you feel confident telling George and I? I helped them forget about the number, but I helped them how I could, and I feel like this help will actually make a difference. Tell me the answer to that question. What area where you could help would actually make a difference and they wouldn't squander it and they wouldn't just, you know, motor through it. Where could you help them where it would make a difference?

[Caller]

The biggest thing that we've discussed that I think could possibly work is if we were able to pay for a year of childcare for their kids so that mom could go to work and help them financially because dad is kind of limited in his position with what he could make.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, if you were to do that, a. Would she go get a job? Yes or no?

[Caller]

I couldn't tell you. I think so.

[George Campbell]

And what if she doesn't? Is it conditional where you go, hey, you got to show proof of.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I don't like. I don't like your answer, John. You realize what I'm doing here? I'm walking you through Is this a good roi? And your answer to that was, I don't know if she'd actually do it. That's a bad sign. True or false?

[Caller]

True.

[Ken Coleman]

You see? So this is how I would come about this. My heart says I want to help, but I need to put real plans, real specifics together. And I just kind of walked you through this. And the first thing you said that you would do to help, there was no certainty at all that it would actually help. Because if you pay for childcare but she doesn't go get a job and thus get extra money, and then we didn't even ask you, even if she made the extra money, do you think that she would put it towards removing debt? What's the answer to that?

[Caller]

I think so. They've been watching our financial journey, so hopefully we've been just hoping that they would see what we're doing.

[George Campbell]

Have they asked questions? Have they even said they want help? Or is it just more? Well, that's for you guys. But we. That's not a thing that we're going to do.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think that's true, George, because we've offered them financial peace because we have it. We're actually waiting to start it because we want them to go through it and they've had it and haven't done it and we're getting frustrated because it's like, I want to help you. Let me help you.

[George Campbell]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

But John, you just said a moment ago, until George reframed that you said you thought that they would use that income of hers to help themselves. And now you're questioning that. So you see, this is the exercise and I'm glad you called us because we can be objective. We're not related to them. It sounds like to me that this is a bad investment.

[George Campbell]

Here's the underlying fear. You don't help them move forward. They just get comfortable for a while while you get super resentful because you're helping them and you're really putting, putting yourself out there, paying for childcare for a whole year, all for them to not make any progress. Well, now the relationship's gone, you've lost all respect for them. And so until they are at a breaking point, until they have enough pain in their life that they're going, I guess we should put on that financial peace thing. We are running out of options here. Yeah, I don't know that they're ready for it yet.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. That reminds me, George, of the old phrase, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And this is tough with family so George, I don't know where you're at. I'm going to say, John, I would not help until they say that A they want help and because they acknowledge they need help. And I think those are your two boundaries. And I and again, I would run through a similar exercise like I just walked you through. And my friend, you answered your own question. And I know it's a tough situation, I hate that. But you guys got your own financial journey. You got 38,000 to pay off. Let's go walk the baby steps. Continue to do what you've been doing. Let's get out of that situation, make your life better and let the chips fall where they fall with other people. Let's go to Jonathan next, who is in Fairfax, Virginia. Jonathan, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi longtime listeners, first time caller, my dad actually. He's really a big fan of the show. And right now I'm got a little question about how to find housing at my current stage of life. I just graduated college about two years ago and I've been working as an RN for about a year and a half. I'm about to get a raise and I'm still looking around trying to find good housing without breaking the bank and just like being able to save continuously after that. And it just seems like a really big struggle for me right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Give us some real numbers. I know the northern Virginia area. If you're in Fairfax area, I know that area. That's extremely expensive place to live. Give us the numbers for George and I, what you're looking at for a rent.

[Caller]

So honestly I'd take really anything. I'm really trying to reduce my commute as well though. And in the Fairfax Fair Oak specific area, which is where my hospital is, it's around 1500 at base price as far as I've seen. I've asked a few realtors, but it comes to about there.

[Ken Coleman]

What have you been paying in this two years since you've been out of school?

[Caller]

I've actually just been staying at home. My dad's very gracious. He's allowed me to stay at home for 200amonth. Additionally, a few other utilities in there.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, what's your income now? And you also told us that you're about ready to get a raise. So give us those two numbers where you are now and then what your new raise will look like.

[Caller]

Right now I believe it's 90 a year and further than that in about a month and a half, I think it goes up to probably 93, 94.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have Any. Do you have any debt payments?

[Caller]

I do not know.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're worried about fifteen hundred dollars a month?

[Caller]

Just a little bit, but.

[George Campbell]

Well, compared to 200, sure. But that's a false reality.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. George is in the middle of this stuff. George, what do you think about 1500amonth?

[George Campbell]

I mean, if you're, if you're taking home about six grand a month. 1500 bucks is right on the mark. We tell people 25% of your after tax income is what you want to stay in for housing, whether it's rent or a mortgage.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And here's the other thing. That's for you living alone, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Here we go. Tell him.

[George Campbell]

George, can I tell you I don't want to pull out, you know, like I'm a pioneer woman or something, but I had roommates all the way up until I was married because I couldn't afford an apartment on my own.

[Ken Coleman]

But you can. But if we've already established you can afford it. But to George's point, if it gives you stomach problems, fine.

[George Campbell]

If it's two grand for a two bedroom and now you're rent, a thousand bucks, you'd feel a little better, wouldn't you? And you're splitting utilities as well.

[Caller]

I definitely love you. If I could find something. But you're right, there's.

[George Campbell]

I mean, Facebook groups all over for roommate finders and apps and ask around to your friends. I mean, you got young guys you work with probably. And so that's, that's. You got to put a little.

[Ken Coleman]

You know where I'm at, George, on this.

[George Campbell]

What's that?

[Ken Coleman]

You've proven that he's fine. Financial, he's got a great upward path. He's got no debt. You know what? This is quality of life, Jonathan. I think you've got to focus on how much life is going to be better. Not commuting way out into Fairfax. I know what that traffic is like.

[George Campbell]

But it's scary to fly the coop. Ken. He's comfy.

[Ken Coleman]

But once you start thinking about not driving in the seventh level of hell every day, there's a really nice trade off. Life is about trade offs, George.

[George Campbell]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, what's up? This is Dr. John Deloney from my friends at Mama Bear Legal forms. I spend a lot of time talking with people about anxiety, relationship challenges and all kinds of other things that keep people up at night. One thing I'm always telling everybody is that peace does not come from avoiding hard things. Peace comes from facing hard things and directly walking through them. One of the Hard things we all face is our own mortality. And if you've got kids or people you love, creating a will is one of the most important things you can give them. I'm such a big fan of Mama Bear. When I moved from Texas to Tennessee, one of the first things I did was set up my will through Mama Bear so that my family was protected in my new state. Mama Bear will help you make a clear, legally valid will in about 20 minutes. They provide step by step guidance that makes getting a will simple. Believe me, if you're ready to love your family in a real impractical and lasting way, go to mamabearlegalforms.com and use the promo code RAMSEY to save 20%. That's mamabearlegalforms dot com use code RAMSEY. All right, let's go to Kathy, who's joining us in Minneapolis. Kathy, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. My husband refinanced our car and now we have a 25% APR and wondering what we should do.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh.

[George Campbell]

Oh, boy. What caused this refinance?

[Caller]

So we.

[George Campbell]

What Was the original APR?

[Caller]

The original was 14, and he was trying to get money to pay some things and decided to take out 3,000 on top of the car loan. And that's what happened.

[Ken Coleman]

Yikes.

[George Campbell]

Why would we do that? Inside of the car loan, there's so many ways to get 3,000, even though it's a terrible idea to go into debt for any of it. But why refinance the car loan to get three grand out?

[Caller]

I think because it was the fast. Well, so he had originally applied for a personal loan, but his credit wasn't very good. And so they told him that he could do it through the car loan as like a secured. I don't know.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, it's a secure debt.

[Caller]

He didn't involve me in the car.

[George Campbell]

So they go, if this guy can't pay, we get a car out of it. So we're willing to do it. Oh, and by the way, his credit shot. So the API APR is 25% because he's a risky borrower.

[Ken Coleman]

So I want to dig here because you laid it out for us very clearly and you said, what do we do? Is we involved here or is it just you? It sounds like he made a really desperate move.

[Caller]

Yes, he did. And it is. We involved. Okay, but yeah, I wasn't included in that decision.

So.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but he's now going, okay, I screwed up and I need some advice. Okay, all right. Any other debt? Because that helps us with this answer.

[Caller]

Yeah, we have credit card debt. Student loan debt, personal loan.

[George Campbell]

What's the total of all the debts?

[Caller]

It's about, oh gosh, just under, let's see, like 70,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. What do you guys make a year as a household?

[Caller]

About 70,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[George Campbell]

Are you guys both working full time?

[Caller]

No, I'm a stay at home mom.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so he's pulling in 70?

[Caller]

Yes. And 13 and 1. Oh, for the ages.

[Ken Coleman]

You just got restarted again?

[Caller]

Yep.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so I have to ask because I think this is, this, is this kind of level of intensity. Are, are there any type of skills, work experience that you have that would allow you to do some work from home? I know the one year old is, that's a full time job. Don't want to minimize that in any way. However, you got 24 hours in a day just like everybody else. Is that even possible? And what do you think you could do to make some money?

[Caller]

Yes, so it is possible. I actually just finished school so I'm going to be pursuing something hopefully from home. I also homeschool, so there's that as well. But I.

[George Campbell]

Is that going to be possible if you're working full time?

[Caller]

Probably not full time. I'm hoping to find something part time from home.

[George Campbell]

What's your degree in and what will the job be that you're hoping for?

[Caller]

Holistic wellness. And like I'm also certified in personal training. So something with personal training and health and wellness.

[George Campbell]

So like your private coaching for nutrition, wellness. Okay, all of that and you, that's a little more flexible. You can kind of do that on your, on your own schedule.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I will point out you have to go get clients. That's a whole different ball game when you're doing it for yourself. So yeah, I'm going to just point that out that that is difficult. Not saying you can't do it, but I would give yourself some realistic goals. And if in a month or two or three months, we're not signing up any clients, not getting anybody interested, you need to go work for somebody else. And that's just a reality right now. You know, if you guys got to bring in more income. Do you have any savings at all?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

What's left on the car balance after this refinance?

[Caller]

So he, he just refinanced it. So it's sitting around, I think 17, 18,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. What is the vehicle worth? Private party value.

[Caller]

7200.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so we're 10 grand underwater. So there's our number. If we want to get out from under this 25% APR, which is going to cause the balance to balloon. If we're not attacking it, then we need to get out from under it by creating this 10 grand, either by saving future income or taking out a loan from a credit union, which I'm guessing is not an option because he's tried that and his credit is shot. Is your credit shot as well? Are you tied to this? No. Okay.

[Caller]

No, I'm not. I was on the original loan, but when he refinanced, I was taken off, I guess.

[George Campbell]

Okay, you would? I would. See, now it's going to be tough because you don't have income. And so they. I don't know if they'll look at the whole picture if you're the one taking out the loan in your name, you know, they're not going to allow him to be a cosigner, I don't think. But if you can go to your local credit union and get a loan for the difference, that at least gets you out from under this. Is there another vehicle that you guys can use right now?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

This is your one car?

[Caller]

Yep.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, the other option is you attack it with a vengeance. I mean, having an $18,000 worth of vehicles making 70 is not the problem. The problem is the behavior that got us here. Adding to the pile, going back into debt, crazy interest rates, a lot of desperation. And it sounds like a lot of this was done without any teamwork. It was just kind of him on his own out of desperation. And you were an unwilling accomplice or did you know about all this?

[Caller]

Yep. No, I didn't know until after it was done.

[Ken Coleman]

So the new loan, George, is 17.

[George Campbell]

17. 18 grand left on the loan at 25%.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so what does he do for a living?

[Caller]

He drives garbage trucks.

[Ken Coleman]

Is he handy?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm telling you right now, he's the one. Now, you've already said what you were going to do. And so if he were on the phone, be going, hey, buddy, you did this. You ought to feel a massive burden. I'm sure he does. But outside of driving that garbage truck, if he's handy, he's working in a warehouse. He's doing whatever he can. 25 an hour. Whatever he can do, he can haul.

[George Campbell]

Just work in the neighborhood.

[Ken Coleman]

I tell you what, the one year old needs you. And I say this not knocking him, but saying this as a father of three for the next year. The one year old doesn't really need him that much. He needs to be working. And the truth is, is he doesn't even work for a year. It's like I would be circling $18,000 if I were your husband. And I would be going, how quickly can I make $18,000 outside of my $70,000 job, George? That, that would be my intensity. You agree, disagree on that. I mean, because that changes their life initially. Gets us out from underneath that massive bad loan that's just putting them in quicksand.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. When you're, when your debt is the same as your income. I see there's a big problem here. Now if your debt was 140 grand and you got 70, we could solve this within 18 to 24 months. And so what that tells me is we need to get aggressive getting this income up. And that might be him getting two more jobs. That might be you getting a full time job. And we put the kids in school, daycare, whatever we need to do right now to solve this crisis. And that's what it is, it's a crisis.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. But Kathy, you guys can get out of this. But it's, it's both of you, it's two points you want you to walk away with on this call. Both of you have to work more and make more, and both of you have got to be super aligned on a budget that allows for no extra spending on anything other than just the four walls. You got it?

[Caller]

Got it.

[Ken Coleman]

You up for it?

[Caller]

Yep. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Game on.

[Ken Coleman]

Because this is doable. George, what's your calculation if they were to do that, And I know you.

[George Campbell]

Don'T know if they get the income up.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm saying come up two and.

[George Campbell]

A half to three years. If they stay status quo and try to do it with their current income. I think this would take four to five years.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And the balances would just grow with this level of. I mean, the credit cards are high interest, the car is high interest, and who knows about the personal loan and student loans. But there's, there's debt surrounding us right now. And so we've got to get on that debt snowball. We've got to get the spending down. We're going to make some deep sacrifices right now.

[Ken Coleman]

In your bestselling book, Breaking Free from Broke, you write a lot about traps. Of course, you coach, you sit here and co host the show all the time. I think this is important. What is happening? What is the emotional trap that causes a guy like this to take such a crazy, desperate loan for only $3,000? What is happening? What do you know?

[George Campbell]

Well, it starts with, I can afford the payment on this one thing. And while the student loans that's an investment in my future. And while the personal loan will knock that out fast. And so it's a lot of good intentions and they're a little bit delusional and starry eyed about the fact they can carry this. And then a spouse wants to stay home and they go, well, yeah, that's a very noble goal. You got to stay home. We'll figure it out. And then desperation leads to refinancing the car loan. And so it's not one thing. It is death by a thousand cuts that got us there. And it's death by a thousand cuts that's going to get us out. And it's much easier to go into debt than it is to get out. That's the hard truth. The dealership will always be happy to refinance at 25% APR. And so you've got, you're going to have to hustle. Both of you need to be a team maybe for the first time in your marriage to clean this up.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us. The phone number to jump in today, 888-255-2225. Georgia take lead on your money questions. I'll take lead on your winning at work. If you're a lack of balance in your life, feeling burned out that's going to affect all your money stuff too. So we can combine any of those calls. We'd love to hear from you. Let's start it off with Sabrina, who joins us in Atlanta, Georgia. Sabrina, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. So I'm a single mom. I had a retirement and a home and got scammed out of my retirement from my ex. He said he'd be in, I could make more money on investments in stocks. He was able to do that. And I pulled out 85k which of course I had to pay a penalty. I'm 54 years old currently. And so now I'm basically starting from scratch. I have some sold my home so I have some money saved and I'm just trying to figure out where I need to go from here. I do have a special needs child and I just want to make the right decisions going forward and really, you know, building for my retirement because I am, you know, 54.

[Ken Coleman]

How much do you have saved off of the sale of the home?

[Caller]

So I had to pay a lot of debt back because my ex was a squatter for a year and a half in the home. So 35,000 in a CD. So I dump that in a CD that matures in March. My high yield, I put 10,000 in a high yield savings account and then in another savings it's $1,200. And then I have some debt.

[George Campbell]

How much debt do you have left?

[Caller]

So 6,500 and credit card, my car, 13,000. It's worth 10,000. I got it during the pandemic. So it's a little upside down.

[Ken Coleman]

Before we go forward, what's the car payment on that?

[Caller]

486Amonth? Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's stop right there.

[Caller]

And it's 96,000 miles and I've already in the last year have dumped $8,500 in repairs.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but I mean that's, it's still, that's a car that, you know, I'm just, I'm going to jump in right there, George, because of the money she's got in savings. If we could pay that off, that saves you $486 a month immediately. You would feel that, yes or no?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, keep going on the debts. But I just wanted to jump in like that's a, that is low hanging fruit. Because you've got cash today to pay that off. George, you don't have any problem with that, do you?

[George Campbell]

I mean, maturing in March. So today you can knock out the credit cards with your high Yield savings.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And then as soon as it matures, I would use 13 grand of it and knock out the car. What else do you have?

[Caller]

I have an attorney's bill for 10K.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Anything else?

[Caller]

Oh, I have a term life insurance. That's. I only pay 360 a year. It ends in 2031 and it's for $200,000. So I didn't even know if I should even like stop that.

[George Campbell]

But do you have any kids? You said you're a single mom.

[Caller]

I'm a single mom. Special needs child. Teenager, yeah.

[George Campbell]

You're gonna need that money if something were to happen to you. I mean, Even though it's 200k, that's still money that can be used to help take care of your child. And eventually you're probably going to need a special needs trust.

[Caller]

Well, that's part of the 10k.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

5K for the attorney is for the court case that I had or have currently. And the other 5k was to hire a wills and trust attorney to set a trust and will because I need to protect my son. And I just. That's priority for me right now.

[George Campbell]

It should be. I love that you've got term life insurance, you've got a will and a trust. You're doing some good things here. And the good news is you have any other debt outside of that. I heard the three. Okay, so you've got 30k in debt and you've got $45,000 essentially liquid.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Have you been debt free in your adult life.

[Caller]

Before? My ex, yes.

[George Campbell]

So why don't we call this a new slate and say this is post ex Sabrina. She's starting a new chapter. She's got a lot of life ahead of her. We're going to go into this thing completely debt free with $15,000 in the bank. You hear me?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Now that we have a foundation now, we can begin investing for the future and rebuilding what we've lost. How sure are you that that money is gone? Did he spend it? What did he do with this money?

[Caller]

Well, I can't get that answer because I tried. And as soon as I stood up to get an answer, it became from, oh, I went to stocks. Oh no, I went into a real estate investment. Now he's telling the attorneys that I agreed on putting it in a business and that business went defunct. But I'm dumping money to get discovery and it's not happening. And I don't want to dump any more money on attorneys when I know I lost cause.

[George Campbell]

And this guy's a piece of work. Then I would move on and just start investing with your current income, which, how much are you making a year?

[Caller]

So I had to take up a W2 to stabilize in the last two years of this cases. So I make 50k gross with the W2. And then I have my own business that brings in 6.75k in gross, but I only pull about 20 to 30.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so we'll say you make 80 grand a year. Yes. Okay. So you will be in baby step four, if you follow what we told you. Pay off the debt, park the 15k. Call that your emergency fund. Maybe you want to add a little bit to it to get to three to six months of expenses. Maybe six months since you're a single mom with a special needs kid. But 15%, that's 12 grand a year you would be investing. So we're going to do a thousand bucks a month from 54. And likely the truth is you're going to have to work longer than you wanted to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Campbell]

To maybe, let's say 68 or 70. Is that fair?

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And you're starting with zero in retirement, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay. You could have over half a million dollars from 54 to 70 investing that grand into, you know, mutual funds inside of retirement accounts.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I'd love to know more about the business. You, you said you're grossing 75. You're only taking out 20 to 30. Does that mean that you're stocking away what we would call retained earnings or that's all you have to be able to take out as a net?

[Caller]

Well, I, I'm a little funny on those numbers, just to say, just so you know, because I'm new in the business. It's like my third year in the business.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I do, I do like owner draws that are not consistent.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So is the business fairly healthy, though? What I'm saying is, is it mostly profit for you or is it running really tight?

[Caller]

It's mostly profit for me because I don't have overhead.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, what's the business? Tell me in 5 seconds seconds what the business is.

[Caller]

Professional home organizer. I help people declutter and organize.

[Ken Coleman]

Isn't that fascinating? You're the professional organizer and you don't have a grasp on your own numbers. Get yourself a good bookkeeper. I'm not chastising you, but I am saying you have it in you. You want to know those numbers because I see a great path. The reason I'm asking these questions, as you grow that business, George, I see tremendous potential for you. To grow.

[George Campbell]

Scale that thing.

[Ken Coleman]

To scale it. Pay yourself more after you run through the advice George gave you. But this is an opportunity to play catch up. Get a good tax Pro. Go to ramseysolutions.com.

[Dave Ramsey]

Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. And you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their home buyer edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market, you can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com to get started today. That's ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement.

[George Campbell]

Homebuyer edge and seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations in mls.id 1591 in mlsconsumerexcess.org Eagle Housing Lender.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, Brandon is up next in Oklahoma City. Brandon, how can we help you today?

[Caller]

Hey, first of all, excited to be on. Thank you guys for having me.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah. So I'm in an industry. I'm in the oil and gas industry. And the job volatility in what I do is it's up and down a lot. I'm on step two, pay off your debt using the debt snowball method. But I already have three to six months of expenses set back in savings and I'm ready to start paying down on some of the debts outside of the mortgage. I'm just having trouble taking that leap because I've been through this cyclical thing of working for a couple years and then the oil and gas market dies and you lose your job for a year and then it comes back and you make good money and then you lose your job. And so I'm ready to jump in. But I just wanted to know what you guys take was on it and how you think I should move forward in that situation.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I have A question first, before George coaches you on what to do. This has happened to you before in the oil and gas industry. This idea of where everything's hot, making great money, and then the market changes, I'm guessing. But this has happened to you more than once or just once?

[Caller]

This is my fourth run.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so here's my question for you. What would need to change? What would need to be true? Having weathered this before, if this happens again, what would need to be true? What would the new reality need to be to where you could weather that storm? You tell us.

[Caller]

So.

The new reality would need to be. I mean, I think we would need to be paid down to where it was just our mortgage, and it would be a lot easier to survive in between those and. Or move on to something else and not get in and out of the industry itself.

[George Campbell]

Have you gotten into any of this debt while in this industry?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, can I just poke a little bit and have some fun?

[Caller]

You can ask me anything you want.

[George Campbell]

If you're truly scared of volatility, why would you go into debt? Because debt is risk and it robs your income. And so if you know this income might not be there, that. That in your brain, the risk factor was broken.

[Ken Coleman]

And you just answered my question by saying the thing that would make it easier is that we only had a house payment.

[Caller]

Right. And we've been in that position before.

[Ken Coleman]

What happened?

[Caller]

We decided to buy the lot that was connected to us, and we built an office here at our house and made some investments. We felt like we wanted to continue to work remote and do what we were doing at the time.

[Ken Coleman]

So based on what I've heard, Brandon, you presented to George and I that you're afraid of using the cash you have stocked up to pay off your debt, when what you should be afraid of is investing in a loft next to you, investing in other things. Like. Do you see where the fear is misplaced?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

You're choosing which risk you want to keep. And we're telling you, if savings is peace, you're right. You were half right. Having the savings there gives you peace. The problem, you're forgetting, is that debt equals risk. And the key to permanent peace is getting rid of the debt. And I think you're a little comfortable because you got three to six months of expenses saved. Why work that much harder? Why sacrifice that much more? We would be okay if something happened for a little bit. And I think getting rid of that savings and putting it on the debt will light a fire under you, and it will expose the Reality of your situation.

[Ken Coleman]

And again, I want to remind you, Brandon, your words. If you emptied out the savings today and paid off all debt and you get laid off, you said that you could weather it based on three other times. You have experience. So you were speaking from experience to George and I. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. So were you telling us the truth?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm telling you the truth. I fluctuated in and out of the real estate market in real estate sales as a broker here between. Between those. Those times where I've been in oil and gas, and I've had success in that also.

[George Campbell]

So here's the key factor. You're not scared of hard work. And so if something were to happen and you didn't have the savings, you would go work your butt off to cover it and then get back on the plan. Get back on the horse.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[George Campbell]

So let's get tactical. How much do you have in debt? Consumer debt? How much do you have in savings?

[Caller]

Okay, so total debt around 200k. That's with the house.

[George Campbell]

Skip the house, put the mortgage aside. That's a baby step six.

[Caller]

Yeah. So outside of that, I have 30k on a business. Business equity line of credit that's attached to an investment property we own.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then I have 20k in a lot loan. So it's a piece of land that's attached to our primary residence.

[George Campbell]

All right.

[Caller]

And then I have 20k in a home equity line of credit. All right.

[George Campbell]

Right. So we're looking at 70k out of the 200.

[Caller]

We have about. Yeah, and we have about 40k in cash.

[George Campbell]

Great. You're telling me you can knock out the lot loan and the HELOC today?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Do it. Double dog dare you. And the other thing is, all of this is tied to your property. So you're putting your house on the block. Triple right now. Because all of this has collateral, doesn't it? If you don't pay. That's how the HELOC works.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And so for a guy telling me that you're afraid of risk, you've taken a whole lot of risk on.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So knock both of those out. You got 30k left. Use your future income, which. How much are you making as a household? Sounds like you guys make good money from the oil field.

[Caller]

Yeah. So I make about 120. When. When it's going to. And my wife, she got laid off last year. She's a medical coder. She got laid off last year to AI, but she's back right now temporary, and she makes about 40k. When she's working full time.

[George Campbell]

Great. So for both hustling, we'll make an 160. We got 30 left to pay down on the line of credit at that point for that business line of credit, which will get knocked out within months. Making 160. Yeah, I'm talking less than six months.

[Ken Coleman]

I've got 100.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I've got one more question for you guys. I was going to ask, what are your thoughts on, as I'm doing what I'm doing right now in oil and gas, on trying to bust back into the real estate market again so I have something to transition back into when this, when the oil and gas goes down again. What are your thoughts on that?

[Ken Coleman]

My quick take is you really can't win at real estate part time. And so if you're talking about being.

[Caller]

A realtor, I know that.

[Ken Coleman]

So then I don't think that's smart unless that's your goal long term. So if that's what, if that's what you want to do long term, you know, let's go. But let's do it after we take care of what George, we got the present we need to win. And let's use what income we have right now to get out of debt and, and, and walk through baby step three and then be in baby step four. And then let's look at transitioning to.

[George Campbell]

Whatever that's one year from now. You see that you pay off the two debts today. You got 30k left that gets knocked out in six months. Months. Another six months for your fully funded emergency fund to stock back up. Now we've got a real foundation that's actual financial peace.

[Caller]

I like it. You guys are driving me towards it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Listen, you, you've been afraid of the wrong things, okay? There's no fear walking out the plan George laid out for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

None.

[Ken Coleman]

No fear.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Ken Coleman]

There's, there's some hardship, there's some sacrifice, right? But on the other side of that is, to George's point, if you want to go into real estate full time, then after I got this debt done and I got a three to six emergency. Three to six month. And I'd go six months, by the way. And then I'd go all in on real estate because you got to build up a pipeline, but you got some experience you've dabbled in. It sounds like before, but now when I hear real estate, I've been full.

[Caller]

Time in it before.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm hearing sales, not you investing. I'm hearing you're a realtor Is that what I'm hearing?

[Caller]

Yes. I'm a real estate broker. We have a property that. We have a property that we bought.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

We heard.

[Caller]

Invested in a commercial piece of property.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Campbell]

Well, real estate people famously have their risk meter broken, and any cash they do have, they want to immediately deploy back into investments because, like, I can make way more money in real estate. But then it leaves us in a lurch here. So I think Ken is right. You've misplaced the fear. Your fear right now is, what if I have a $30,000 emergency and I don't have the savings? The true fear is you have $70,000 in debt that is tied to your home. That's the thing we should be attacking. And you'll get there in no time, man. You. You work hard, you make great money. We just got to retool some things and clean it up. A year from now, you'll be in a very different place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Ken Coleman]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me, too.

[Ken Coleman]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me, too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here, and, you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Ken Coleman]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

To just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying, I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Ken Coleman]

Foreign. If you are working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using every dollar. It's more than a budgeting app. Now this is the entire plan that we teach the baby steps. All of it right in the middle of this world famous now app. Oh, it's so fun. Track your progress. Get personalized recommendations and coaching, actual coaching for your situation to help you free up more money. It's like having one of the Ramsey hosts with you every day, showing you the next right step. Start it for free. Just kick the tires. Download it now in the app store or Google Play. Let's go to Carol in Denver Now. Carol, how can we help you today?

[Caller]

My question is, what are your thoughts about using AI in tax planning and preparation?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, that's a hard pass for me.

[George Campbell]

George, what got you here? What made you go? You know what, I'm going to let Chad GPT handle this one.

[Caller]

I was presented with a document from the accounting firm requesting that I authorize AI to be used and some of it would be overseas and I'm apprehensive about that.

[George Campbell]

Oh, so you're going through an actual tax planning firm?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, okay. They're just using, they're just sort of speeding up the process by using AI and we're going to see this everywhere. Almost every organization is going to start using AI to help move things along, you know, reduce the amount of resources they need. And so that doesn't worry me as much. I thought you were just on your own.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Trying to do tax planning with an AI, you know, tool.

[Caller]

Yeah.

No, no. And it's, it's the accounting as well, because the accounting firm does the tax, you know, taxes. And therefore would they be using an overseas entity to be able to help?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you just need to ask, you know, this is, here's the thing. We preach all the time on, on any trusted Ramsey trusted service. We want people to understand what the firm or the, the person is doing for them. So they explain it to you to where you go, oh, okay. So if you have questions about that, okay, what, how is AI being used in the pre. My taxes? You know, if overseas. What's going on? Just ask those questions and somebody with great service who really cares about you and values you as a customer, certainly has the heart of a teacher, is going to have no problem answering those questions. But George is right. I'm not sure you're going to be going anywhere in this country or any other country. With professional services that have a decent amount of clerical administrative work where AI is not going to be used.

[Caller]

Okay, thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call. That's a good question, George.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And if you're not comfortable with it, just go. No, thank you. And you can reach out to a, you know, a tax pro and you can find one of [e-mail] and you can ask them, hey, what role does AI play in the way you do tax planning? Yeah. And if you don't like the answer, you can move along to someone who does it old school.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. All right, real quick, fun question for our next call. Are you scared of AI or are you excited for AI?

[George Campbell]

I'm personally not scared.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, good.

[George Campbell]

And I'm going to stick to the, the positives and you know how helpful it can be versus is it going to take over and destroy everything? Maybe. But until then, yeah, I'm going to just.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're a guy that, that operates with a decent level of anxiety, so people should take that with a serious shaker of salt.

[George Campbell]

That is true. But I'm also very pragmatic and I like to be efficient.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And I think I can be a great tool when used properly.

[Ken Coleman]

Technology does not scare George Camel. Stephanie is up next in Detroit. Stephanie, how can we help you?

[Caller]

Yeah, about five months ago, my uncle passed away.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

My husband at home.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, thank you. When he passed away, we wanted to sell the home because it was only a two bedroom home and it's like 30 minutes away from my kids school and on the school district. And since then we've had issues with property boundary lines and we've been working with a realtor. And now since all this, we've started to love the property. And I'm wondering what is financially the best decision to do? Either sell the home or do renovations to make it a little bigger.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let's play this out. You love the home and so you started thinking about making improvements. What would be the future of that? Why? In other words, why make those improvements? Why do you love it?

[Caller]

It's on a lake.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so would this be a secondary home?

[Caller]

We would sell where we're living now and move into the, into there.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly what I was getting at. So now it comes down to, okay, the boundary issues you brought up. There's been some challenges. Is that an, is that something that's easy to navigate and you now have some clear direction on it, or is it going to be a headache? Ongoing.

[Caller]

We're not sure. We're still in the process of it.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I can tell you just I wouldn't think about selling my current home and moving into uncle's home. No matter how much I love it and how awesome the lake is. If there were some boundary issues that scares me to death, George, I would.

[George Campbell]

Get clarity on that before deciding anything. Here's the key question to ask though. Would you buy this house today if it weren't inherited? Let's say you had the cash, you knew what it was worth, you could pay cash for it and you had the same spot.

[Ken Coleman]

Would you say? Probably not.

[Caller]

Yeah, probably not.

[Ken Coleman]

Why?

[Caller]

In an area we wouldn't really go to because it's out of our kids school district.

[George Campbell]

Then how would you move there today?

[Caller]

Well, the schools on the way to my husband work.

[George Campbell]

Okay. But it would be a pretty big commute for him to get to work for the kids to go to school. It would be inconvenient for your life as it stands today.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You just answered the question. George. Asked it as plainly as you as he could. You just said no, I wouldn't buy it if my uncle didn't give it to us. So based on that and the boundary issues, I would solve the boundary issues so that we could sell it.

[George Campbell]

The other piece of this. Do you have financial goals where if you sold this house it could really solve some other problems? Do you have any debt? Do you have a mortgage?

[Caller]

We have debt. We actually live in a trailer and we have about 60,000 in debt.

[George Campbell]

Is the long term plan to live in a trailer?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what could this house sell for?

[Caller]

We were told about 150 to 200,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so think about it this way.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that all cash coming to you? Does it have any debt, in other words, on the house?

[Caller]

Well, we have about 30 grand on the home.

[George Campbell]

What do you mean on the home.

[Caller]

And the mortgage for the trailer?

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, I'm talking about uncle's house.

[George Campbell]

It's paid for.

[Caller]

Oh no, it's paid for.

[George Campbell]

Okay, great. Okay, so if you could walk away with 200 grand, pay off your 60k in debt, pay off the 30 on the trailer, you still have 110 left, potentially for a down payment on a home that will go up in value, unlike the trailer.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

I'm doing that all day long versus taking a vacation home that you may or may not live in. You guys have some priorities right now. So I'm going to take this as this inheritance as a blessing that puts you guys on a very different path than the one you're on right now.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Because the current path is not a great one. Can we all say that out loud?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

We're $90,000 in debt. The trailer's going down in value, which means you're probably upside down on it. And we need some stability. And what your uncle did is a huge blessing to give you guys a different trajectory for your financial future and for your family tree.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And maybe one day you do buy a house on the lake. But right now, if you guys had no debt, you had plenty in savings in retirement, you were on track to be multi millionaires. I'd say just keep it and for fun for now, and maybe in the future, you use it, but you guys aren't in that place. And so I would sell it. Absolutely. And get rid of it as soon as you can and use that money to pay down your debt, get a fully funded emergency fund, and use the rest toward a down payment.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You got a good plan? Get a good real. Do you have a good real estate pro on your team right now helping you solve all this?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yep.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Fantastic.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm telling you, get that solved. Priority number one is to get whatever boundary issues, get all that clear so that you can list this house and then follow George's plan to. You guys are going to be living it up. What a great position to be in, you know, so sad that you lost your uncle, but, boy, did he bless you. And we want to make sure you maximize this blessing. Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you. Thank you for the call.

[George Campbell]

I love reverse engineering it like that. Would you do this today on your own volition versus it falling in your lap? And if the answer is no, you got to go. All right? This isn't the move.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

I love it as much as you could justify it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Do your. Do your Shark Tank. I love when you do that.

[George Campbell]

Oh, and for those reasons, I'm out.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys, I started my company on a card table myself, so I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got Netsuite. That was years ago, and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that starts just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business for real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsay that's netsuite.com Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, Today's question of the day is brought to you by why refi Defaulted private student loans do not not fix themselves but they can be fixed. Why Refi helps you by refinancing defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can clean up the mess and move forward with a plan. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's y r e f y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[George Campbell]

Today's question comes from Colin in Georgia. My wife and I recently started the baby steps and are quickly paying off the debt. We purchased a home two years ago with a 30 year mortgage. Once we pay off our debts, should we refinance ourselves to a 15 year mortgage? The mortgage is currently 25% of our take home. We can put extra money towards the mortgage once we get past baby step three. What would you suggest? This would be a more information needed situation. I agree because it's not that simple. Now we love for people to get the 15 year mortgage but if you're already in a 30 it's not a yes go do this today. You got to look at the interest rates and how much the refinance is going to cost you to find out how quickly you would break even. So if you would break even on this loan in six months, then sure, go for it. But if it's going to take a while to break even because of the current rates and the rate you currently have, it's okay to keep the 30 that you got and just pay extra like it's a 15 or even better like it's a 5 or 10 and just get out of that thing as soon as you can. But if you want to crunch the numbers, call up our friends at Churchill Mortgage. They'll be happy to run the numbers for you. To tell you honestly, does this make sense for you right now?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Love that. Good advice there. Thanks for the question. All right, we're gonna go to Jesus in Dallas. And looks like our notes tell me that he's got a gigantic car payment. George. It might give you a little indigestion. So I've got the fake tums over here ready to go. So let's see how we can help out there. Jesus. Tell us what your question is today.

[Caller]

Hello. Good afternoon, guys. Happy to be speaking to you guys this afternoon. My only question is. Well, I have other questions we have time for. But my main question is how can I get out of my. The car loan that I have, it's $34,000 in total. My monthly payment is $830 a month. And I recently got it evaluated for 14,750. And, and my bank is Navy Federal Credit Union. And I asked, I basically asked them if I could get a loan for the remaining balance so I can sell it, and they denied me. So I was kind of left at a loss. I don't know what to do next.

[George Campbell]

And they're the ones that are holding the loan?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

All right. So you said you got it evaluated. What do you mean by that? Who told you the car is worth 14.

[Caller]

Kelly Blue Book. I haven't taken it to like any. Any place where they physically looked at it, but, you know, I put all the details.

[George Campbell]

You're saying the private party value was 14. 7:50.

[Caller]

Yeah, if that's a good number to basically trust. Kelly.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I was just making sure it wasn't the trade in value, which is always going to be much lower. Okay, yeah. So you are $20,000 underwater. What other debt do you have?

[Caller]

I have no other debt. I've been listening to you guys for close to a year now. And I managed to pay off my credit cards. I just have this car loan now.

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[George Campbell]

What do you make?

[Caller]

77,000 a year. And I'm a diesel mechanic, so my monthly changes either under or higher, but that's what my salary is.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have options for not just regular overtime with your company, but freelancing, if you will, given your unique skills?

[Caller]

I, you know, definitely thought about it, but I have not explored it because I'm like so invested in to where I work. I just work so much over here.

[Ken Coleman]

And how much, how much is a lot?

[Caller]

Like 55 to 60 hours. 60 hours would be like an extreme, but normally 50 hours.

[Ken Coleman]

How much were you putting away towards the credit cards while you were paying them off? What was the, the most amount out of your monthly budget that you were putting on that debt?

[Caller]

On the credit cards? Yeah, I I kind of wasn't putting. I was just doing the snowball. And when I. At the end of the month. So the way I do it, I save for to pay off the month first and then anything extra I put towards the cards and I just did that. Anything extra I had, I just throw it at the.

[George Campbell]

Yes. What was the average amount extra that you had to throw at debt per month? A thousand?

[Caller]

2000, 1300 at the end of the month? Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Could you do more today now that those payments are gone?

[Caller]

Yeah, of course I could. I could. Not that much more. Maybe like 15, 1600amonth.

[George Campbell]

Great. So here's your options. Number one, you get a loan for the difference, which you've tried one place, they said no, you can always try a different place. The other option is saving the difference in cash in order to clear the title and sell it. Now you still need more money to then go buy a different car, right? That's your only vehicle?

[Caller]

Yeah. Well, I bought my fiance a cash car here recently, like a week ago.

[George Campbell]

Why did you buy her a car?

[Caller]

Because I'm the reserves military and I do a lot of driving and when I'm away she has no way of getting to work. Or also an important part of information. We're expecting a baby girl.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, wow.

[George Campbell]

Congrats.

[Caller]

Thank you. So for the expected days that I'm supposed to leave, I leave like five days at a given time.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so cars right now or could you survive as a one car family?

[Caller]

I. We can survive. We've been doing one car since we've known each other.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Okay. So here's your other options and what I'll suggest you can either save up the 20k real fast, aggressively. Like let's say if you can save up 2k a month, we got the 20k in 10 months to get rid of this. Or you just pay the car off aggressively and keep it. Now, it's a lot of your world, but you've rolled over negative equity. So it's not a true picture because generally we say don't let your, you know the total amount of vehicles. Things with motors and wheels add up to more than half of your annual income income. And with her cash car, you're probably there and or a little bit over. But that's your other option. If you want to keep it, you pay it off aggressively. That's 34 grand. If you can put, you know, 1600 bucks a month, it's going to take a while, but you could do it. But because you only need one car, I like the plan of you throwing two or three grand a month of this thing and being done before the end of the year to get rid of it.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

To get out from under.

[Caller]

Good idea and everything, but.

[Ken Coleman]

But what?

[Caller]

But giving that our baby. Girls come in here late April, early May. I'm doing the stork mode.

[George Campbell]

You're stacking up cash.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

How much do you have saved right now?

[Caller]

How about I have about three, three and a half thousand right now, and I expect to have 7,000 by the time she's born.

[Ken Coleman]

When are you guys getting married so that we can put those incomes together? So.

[Caller]

Well, we, we would love to get married immediately, but my, my mother. It's a situation with like an immigration case, and the lawyers basically said it's not a good idea to get married yet. I, I really didn't challenge it from there. I just kind of said, okay.

[George Campbell]

Because of your mother?

[Caller]

Because of my mom in an immigration case with her. I'm trying to get her. Her residency, I believe, or citizenship.

[George Campbell]

It. But what does that have to do with you two getting married?

[Caller]

Why? I. I guess I don't know. Because I never challenged the. That statement. I didn't ask. Why can't we.

[George Campbell]

Well, I'll give you the math on it. Let's say you save up babies, home and healthy. That gives you a pile of cash you can throw at the debt within six months. After that, you could have the 20 grand saved to cover the difference for the loan and then sell it and clear the title. And then you go down to one car and then whatever future money. Now we're saving up to get a second car if you need one. Or we're just stacking up the emergency fund if you're out of debt at that point. Okay, there's no shortcuts here. Do not go further into debt. The only reason I tell you to take out a loan from a credit union is if you can go down in debt and then get out of that aggressively.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

George, I'm wondering why I did not hear you recommend this. Why not have a third option where he sells the car and gets the max he can get for it? Because it's going down in value. If they can truly survive off of one car, which is her cash car, why not sell it?

[George Campbell]

Well, because. Because when you're underwater, you don't have a clean title. And so without a clean title, he's not going to be able to hand that title over to the person buying it. There you go. And so there's a lien against the the vehicle with the lender. And so to clear that, you got to go to the bank, have the money.

[Ken Coleman]

The difference, it's not as clean as.

[George Campbell]

It sounds to pay off the loan. Yeah. So it's, it's a process. And that's the problem. It's. You can't be underwater on a car you pay cash for. And it's one of the best reasons to never go into debt for a car on top of. Of many others.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside. We're here for you. 8888-255225-88825-5225. All right, let's go to Ryan in Salt Lake City. Ryan, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going today?

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you?

[Caller]

I'm looking at. I'm doing very well. I was just wanting to ask you what I would have to do at 28 years old this February to retire at 40 years old.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. You got George over here who does his magical computations.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. We can talk about how to do it. And then I want Ken to talk about should you do it?

[Ken Coleman]

I like that.

[George Campbell]

What caused this goal?

[Caller]

Well, I'm trying to go against the grain and I do not want to work until I'm past 60. And I believe I have the income in order to do that and kind of break the streak and retire at 40.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, there's a lot of variables we don't know, but let's start with what you make today.

[Caller]

So last year I made 235,000 and I'm projected this year. You know, that was with some bonuses last year. My pre tax is supposed to be around 206 to 210 this year.

[George Campbell]

Great. So we'll mark it a little over 200.

[Caller]

147.

[George Campbell]

Are you single?

[Caller]

I'm married with two children.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And that's the household income. Is your, is your spouse at home?

[Caller]

She runs our company that we opened a few years ago. She does consulting for construction companies. But that's her thing. I got out of the company when I went from 1099 to being a W2.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so is that additional income or is that part of the 235 that.

[Caller]

That's not including my income.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

She's part time and doesn't get. Usually get 10 hours a week or so, but I'm not factoring that in.

[George Campbell]

All right, so what is your. Do you have a goal in mind of how Much you need to have saved in order to accomplish this.

[Caller]

To be work optional, I'd like to have at least $7,000 coming in a month. $7,000 to $9,000 for retirement every single month.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So you're probably looking at at least 1 1/2 million bucks or something sitting in an account that's invested heavily in equities and stocks. Do you have anything saved right now or invested?

[Caller]

I have $5,000 in Schwab and $15,000 in savings. And my checking account usually floats around $8,000. I just got myself out of a ton of debt. So right now is my, my time to kind of start the investment process in order to do the retirement.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I have two loans that I'm still working on.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So let's walk through the process that I would personally walk through if this was my goal, which would be to pay off all of my debt. And that means liquidating most of the savings to do that. To speed this up, getting a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months, which if you're saying your, your, what's your burn rate every month right now, how much do you need to.

[Caller]

Get by right now? $5,704.83.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So let's call it 35 grand is a six month emergency fund for you guys. So that's your next goal.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Then we need to be investing 15% for retirement because we want to take advantage of any tax advantaged accounts we can first. And so if you've got a match, let's start there. Roth accounts. That's a great move there for tax free growth. And then traditional accounts. Then beyond that, beyond the 15%, if you wanted to put some money away in a brokerage account like is what you're, that's what you're talking about with the Schwab account?

[Caller]

Yes. And that's wtsx.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Then if you want to put money there for it to grow and you put, you know, 50 grand a year, let's say that would get you about 1.1 in 12 years. So you'd be a little off the mark. So then you, you know, let's ratchet it up to 70. Well, I could see to 1.6. The other factor here is your mortgage. Are you guys, you guys own. Yes.

[Caller]

My total housing is about 28. 28. And that's including 21, 23. Mortgage, Wi Fi, water, trash and all that.

[George Campbell]

Okay. What's left on the mortgage?

[Caller]

We're at 338.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I personally would attack the mortgage first before I was doing additional into the brokerage account. And you'll have time. What's that?

[Caller]

What would the attacking the mortgage first be? Rather than maybe get rid of a car payment which is less than.

[George Campbell]

Oh, no, you need to attack the consumer debt first. Hear me say that. So we talked about knocking out the consumer debt, getting an emergency fund, investing 15%, then anything extra. We're putting some toward college, paying off the mortgage, which means we're probably going to be delaying this plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Plan.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Once the house is paid off now we can invest beyond the 15% put money into the brokerage account. Because here's the thing. If you got rid of that mortgage payment, it really reduces how much you actually need in that fountain, doesn't it?

[Caller]

I have something to throw at you. Okay, so if my, if my housing is 2828amonth, but my vehicles is 2265amonth, I got can. I can pretty much free up the same amount if I paid off the vehicles a lot quicker than the house because it's not that big of a number.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, dude, I'm telling you, follow the baby steps. Consumer debt goes first. Did you miss that part? So the cars are going to get paid off asap, then the emergency fund gets stacked up, Then you start investing 15% into retirement accounts, then some money to college, then we throw the money at the mortgage. So I'm not telling you to pay off the mortgage before your car.

[Caller]

Gotcha.

[George Campbell]

And by the way, a guy who wants to retire early should not be carrying $2,200 in car loans.

[Caller]

Right, I agree with that.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Just want to make sure, because that is flying in the face of your stated goal of financial freedom. Now, I want Ken to quickly hit on, should you do this? Because I have followed the fire movement and seen what's happening over there and it frankly worries me.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Are you, Are you a fan of the financially independent retire early. That's the fire movement. Movement.

[Caller]

I'm not aware of that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, here's what we found. And this is all documented. The guy who started, who's credited with starting this movement, the idea was work like an absolute maniac. Don't live life, don't enjoy Anything until you're 40 and you stack, stack, stack, stack, stack. And the guy who actually is considered the founder of this actually went back to work two or three years into it for a couple of reasons. Number one, he thought in his mind that he had not actually saved enough given how the cost of college was going up. That was One of his stated concerns also, the guy was bored out of a skull and there's nothing wrong with retiring. And I love, by the way, whenever I say this, people always come at me in the comments and come at me because I'm not going to be in there. George will tell me, I'll fill him in. I'm not saying that there aren't certain people who can retire at any age and never work it in the life and be as happy as a clam, fishing, hunting, whatever. But what I am saying is, is that we know from research that it has negative effects on us because there is this built in desire, in our spirit, in our soul to make a contribution. So I'm not saying you got to work 40 hours a week until the day you fall over, over. I am saying that it is, it is proven that it is better for us mentally, emotionally and physically to have some type of purpose outside of just play as we age.

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

So. But I will tell you, I love that you called us and threw it out there. But I got to tell you, after George ran those numbers out, you've got a ways to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Based on this, after you follow everything.

[Ken Coleman]

I've told you, you still have to stack.

[George Campbell]

You still stack 100 grand away in that account for a decade for this to even make sense.

[Ken Coleman]

So the reason I bring that up is not to discourage you, but, but to encourage you to have a more realistic goal.

[George Campbell]

And a healthier one.

[Ken Coleman]

And a healthier one so that we can actually reach it. Because I think you've created a mountain in your mind that's not climbable given your financial realities. But if you do what George said, you're going to be very happy, man. And can in fact retire much earlier than most.

[George Campbell]

Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals, we love it. But let's be honest, old you said the exact same thing last January and the January before that. And before you know it, those money goals fizzle out faster than the fleeting flavor of LaCroix. So here's the truth. New Year motivation only gets you so far. You need an actual plan. And the good news is you don't have to figure it out on your own. Everydollar builds a personalized plan based on your goals and your real life. And it actually coaches you to stick with it. Plus, the EveryDollar app will help you find extra money hiding in your budget. And trust me, there's always something Hiding. The average person finds $3015 in the first 15 minutes. That's basically like giving yourself a raise and a much happier new year. So don't let future you down. Make them proud. Go download the EveryDollar Budget app and start for free right now.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, folks, if you have kicked your debt to the curb, you deserve to celebrate. Where do they deserve to celebrate, George? Where would somebody. Where would you recommend that somebody who beat all their debt, they got it out of their life? How would you think they might, you know, celebrate that?

[George Campbell]

I think somewhere warm, somewhere tropical. And somewhere with Dave Ramsey and the Ramsey personality.

[Ken Coleman]

How about the Caribbean?

[George Campbell]

I'll go there with Dave, you, me.

[Ken Coleman]

And all the other Ramsey personalities.

[George Campbell]

Take me there. Want to go there?

[Ken Coleman]

All right. It's called the Live like no one Else cruise, folks. It's coming, coming back after much popular demand. And I'm not reading from any notes here. This is a fact extemporaneous. Those folks loved it who went on it before. And so, my, my, my, this is going to sell out way faster because now everybody knows how great it is. And I gotta tell you, I'm not.

[George Campbell]

A cruise guy, George, traditionally.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I don't like being on the boat. I like the clothes that you would wear on a boat. The attire is what I like the boat attire. And I like the Caribbean being. Well, this cl. This cruise was great. And so here we do. Here we go. We're going to roll it back. I think they say run it back, not roll it back, run it.

[George Campbell]

It's your show, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

March 14 through 21. March 14 through 21, 20, 27, that's next year if you're looking at your calendars in the Bahamas. How about Jamaica?

[George Campbell]

George, Do I want to take you? Was that my cue?

[Ken Coleman]

It was.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

The Grand Cayman and Cozumel cabins are limited. Save up to $300 when you book by February 7th. So, hey, those of you who haven't made any plans. Are you kidding me? Next March, you got cash? You want to save 300 bucks? You got to do it before February 7th. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramseysolutions.comevents to book your cabin. I am looking forward to this. I did not think it was going to be as amazing as it was. The ship was going to great. The people are our. Our, our fans are just amazing.

[George Campbell]

It was electric energy.

[Ken Coleman]

The buffets were next level. And I will tell you, there was in fact a pickleball court on top of the ship. So if you're a Pickle ball.

[George Campbell]

That is where you can find. Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

We had a lot of tournaments going on.

[George Campbell]

They wore you out, man. You were up there for like, seven hours. And people like, no, no, you're not going anywhere, Ken. I want to play you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, there's a shot right there with the headband.

[George Campbell]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ken Coleman]

And the lettuce, as the kids call my hair flowing. On top of the ship. It's on the top deck, George.

[George Campbell]

That's a bold move to show off your legs, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

With those chicken legs you got down there.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, there's nothing to be ashamed of. They're just little. That's all it is. So we'd love to see you on the cruise. And I wear, by the way, on stage. Did you like my attire? I really went with a cruise ship theme last. Last year.

[George Campbell]

All of those white pants you own finally came in handy.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'll say that. Lots of linen.

[George Campbell]

A lot of loafers.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, a lot of loafers. All right, Carol knows what we're talking about. Somewhere in sunny Florida. Carol, how can we help you today?

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet. What's going on?

[Caller]

My husband and I are both going to be turning 65 this year, and we want to retire at the end of the year. And we're trying to decide if we should pay off our house or not, and if so, where we should pull the money from. We don't have any other debt, and we do have some savings. We have about 1.1 million in an IRA. 90,000 of that is in a 401k, and we have about 145,000 in savings.

[George Campbell]

Awesome.

[Caller]

We owe 155,000 on the house, and the interest rate is 2.75%. The problem is the maturity date on that loan is 2051. So we'll be about 90.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, no, thank you.

[Caller]

But I'm not sure, you know, if I pay it off, I'm not sure exactly where to pull the money from.

[George Campbell]

So you've got 145k in liquid cash. What is that earmarked for right now?

[Caller]

Initially, to live off of when we retire, we'd like to delay drawing our Social Security, which would be about $4,400 a month if we draw now. We'd like to wait at least a couple years and let that grow. Our monthly expenses are about 5,000.

[George Campbell]

Great. So you almost have the cash to do it, but you're saying you need a big chunk of this to basically live because you want to retire by the end of the year.

[Caller]

Yes. Retirement for me is a great goal. It's going to be a really big switch mindset for me because I'm a saver, not a spender. So depleting money out of that savings makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So that's why I feel like I need a little bit of advice from someone who has a broader outlook.

[George Campbell]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

Our household income right now is about 160,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Awesome.

[Caller]

And we save about 2,500amonth, and we put about 15% into our investments with employer match.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so outside of 15%, you're saying you have 2500 extra you can throw at the mortgage?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

All right. That'll get you far. That's 30 grand right there. And by that point, the mortgage is down to 125 grand. You'll have the money in cash, but you're gonna need some of that to float you for a year or two, it sounds like. And do you have any other money outside of the 1.1 nest egg?

[Caller]

I have about 40. Well, say 45,000. No, 52,000 in a Roth, but I didn't start it until 2022, so I don't think I can withdraw from that without penalty for five years. Is that correct?

[George Campbell]

Yes. Do you have a financial advisor you've used to crunch all these numbers?

[Caller]

I have some. My investments in Schwab and I've talked to them, but. But the rest of it I've just done on my own.

[George Campbell]

Okay. My only fear is that you're riding it pretty tight. If you're wanting to spend five grand of net income a year for the rest of your life off of this million dollar nest egg. And so that's the part where I can see it working. But a smartvestor pro can run the projections out and show you all of the scenarios and what medical costs might be and when Social Security would kick in and when you should take it, all of that will factor into to when you should retire.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

So I think you're on the cusp here, and I think you can pull this plan off. But I would double check it with a smartvestor pro to make sure that the numbers make sense. But if I'm in your shoes, I like using cash. First, we want to save the retirement. If you have any taxable investment accounts, use that next. Then we move on to traditional accounts. And then if you have any Roth accounts, I would wait as long as I could because those are growing tax free for you right now. Now, so that would be the bucket Strategy and a SmartVestor Pro can walk you through that based on your numbers, and it might mean, hey, we got to work six months into 2027 to make this work, but I want to make sure that you're ironclad.

[Ken Coleman]

Love it. Thanks for the call, Carol. Let's go to Michelle right here in our backyard of Nashville, Tennessee. Michelle, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. How are you guys doing today?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. What's going on?

[Caller]

Good. Well, recently my husband and I both have had some raises. We're still in the middle of baby step two, and I'll be honest, we've been doing this for a couple years now. And so just trudging along on this baby step two feels like it's just going on forever. But since we've got these raises, I'm wondering if I can quit my side hustle and just put this extra income towards baby step two.

[Ken Coleman]

What was your side hustle paying you?

[Caller]

It's about 20,000 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your raise paying you? What's the net on the raise?

[Caller]

About 6,500 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

So it's not apples to apples, correct?

[Caller]

Well, it's not, but my husband also got a big increase in pay, and his was about 40,000.

[George Campbell]

Oh, okay.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. So, yeah, I mean, you certainly can.

[George Campbell]

What's the timeline differences? Let's say you kept the side hustle and his raise and your raise, how much would you get out versus if you quit the side hustle, does it delay it by three months or a year?

[Caller]

No, it's not a year. When I put it in the app, every dollar it it says it's like three or four months difference. Although, you know, like I said, I'm just tired of working, you know, the extra job, but I certainly want to get the debt paid off, too. And to be quite honest, I don't like the extra three or four months either, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, there's your answer. It's really not our answer. I mean, we can give you our take, but there's no right or wrong answer is really my answer. But I would lean towards. I was going to turn the question on you, and you got ahead of me and you asked your own question and answered it.

[George Campbell]

You're choosing between two things that kind of suck. Continuing the side hustle or continuing to stay in debt even longer and sacrificing in other ways and making the payments and paying the interest. And so if you can find a second wind here and just power through and go, I hate this side hustle so much, I'm willing to work even harder I think that will fuel this debt free journey.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree, I agree. You hate the side hustle, you hate the debt. But if you work three to four months more, you get rid of both of them at the same time. That's my answer.

[George Campbell]

Bada bing, bada boom.

[Ken Coleman]

And I'm sticking to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey, Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. It's always fun when we have friends of Dave stop by. And Dave's got lots of friends, George, as you know. And they're interesting people. And this is a special treat for us. We're really excited to be joined in studio by Andy Irwin and Bart Melard. And, and, and you're going, I think I may know those names. Well, you do. Andy Irwin, the award winning filmmaker behind the very first film, I Can Only Imagine Bart Millard is now, is, is producing this as well. I Can Only Imagine two is the follow up to I Can Only Imagine. And I gotta say to you guys, when I saw that this was coming out, I thought this is a good sign that the first movie, we know it was a big deal field, but there had to be a lot of heat because I'm not a fan of sequels, George. You know, they're hard to pull unless.

[George Campbell]

It'S Home Alone too. You're like, all right, good.

[Ken Coleman]

That's one that I thought was, was good but not great. And so I'm very excited about this sequel. Guys, first of all, welcome to the studio. Welcome to the Ramsey show. And I think it begs the question, I'm being serious. I mean, it seems scary to pull off a sequel because it's not done well. And you guys were telling us earlier that things look really good here. Why pull off the sequel?

[Andy Irwin]

I was terrified. I said no over and over again. And so Bart and I have been really good friends since the first movie. And, and they kept bringing up this idea of I think there might be more story to tell. So Cindy Bond, who was the original producer, was like, I think there's more story. And I was like, absolutely not. Because I don't want to ruin It. It was just so magic. And there's this. There's sequels that are made that worship the original, and then they just mess it all up, up. And then there's Top Gun Maverick, and so the idea of reintroducing you to the world you love and taking it somewhere new. And so Cindy started talking to Bart, and then Brent McCorkle, who did Jesus Revolution with my brother. They started talking about the story of Even if the song that so many people love every bit as much as I can imagine. And when they start walking through that, they said, you got to hear this. So they pulled me into the conversation, they walked me through the story, and it was just the second half of a whole. And it's the perfect end to a father son story. And I was in tears by the end of it.

[Ken Coleman]

And then.

[Andy Irwin]

Then Bart was like, I think this is kind of like the spiritual sequel. I can imagine. And I was like, no, this is the literal sequel. I can get that made tomorrow. And we pitched it the Lions Gate. 30 seconds in. They're like, guys, we're obviously doing this movie. So for us to step into it was magic. To finish the movie and test it. We were just nervous. Like, what's the audience going to think? The first, I can imagine, was our highest testing film we've ever had that scored a 96 with the audience. This one scored a 97. So it's that boat. Well, hopefully.

[George Campbell]

Hopefully, yeah. And what you guys have done in the. The world of film and faith, it always. It hasn't always been world class. And you guys have brought just such a level of quality, from the stories to the acting, the craftsmanship. And so I can't wait to see, you know, this one out in theaters February 20th, for everyone to see it for themselves, especially for our audience. Yeah, you know.

[Andy Irwin]

Yeah, your audience is in for a treat. You know, Dave. Dave And Ramsey is a part of this.

[George Campbell]

Like, the part of the movie was filmed on the Ramsey campus.

[Ken Coleman]

I just found this out moments ago. Go tell us what. What's going on, Bart. How did this happen? Because you and Dave are big buddies. Yeah, he's my stunt double, pretty much. No, man. Yeah. Dave and I've been buddies for a long time. I didn't even realize that he made the movie until I saw the.

[George Campbell]

So Dave Ramsey has a cameo. If you listen for a familiar voice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Andy Irwin]

You will recognize it.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're filming on campus here. And then. Then after I learned that, I was also disappointed to find out that George and I did not make the final cut.

[Andy Irwin]

You're. You were too expensive.

[George Campbell]

Did they even send you my audition tape?

[Andy Irwin]

They named your price and it just priced you out. So we're going to have to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Up to your level.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I'll get there.

[Andy Irwin]

We actually, we actually. We emailed Dave and said, everybody's like, no, Dave never says yes to filming stuff like that here. And so I emailed him and he was on Yalls cruise. And I just said, hey, Dave, be careful when you're friends with a filmmaker because we ask for stuff. And I was like, how would you feel about us filming the movie at your place?

[Ken Coleman]

Place?

[Andy Irwin]

And he's like, yeah, man, it'll be fine.

[Ken Coleman]

Talk to the guys, work it out.

[Andy Irwin]

And I was like, and so you.

[George Campbell]

Picked him on a good day. He was on the cruise, having a good time.

[Andy Irwin]

He was out in the sun.

[Ken Coleman]

He had just finished the buffet. That's why he was excited. Okay, Bart, I want to pick up where Andy left off. In describing how this came about as you were walking through more of the story, as a guy who, of course you've been nominated, won so many awards, is lead singer of Mercy Me. This is such a different space used to telling stories with songs. But as you were walking through this, in the story that we heard, at what point do you go, I think this is a big screen story? I don't know if I was ever sure about that until I actually read the script. I mean, it's been almost 10 years since the last movie. Exactly. I did an interview yesterday and they're like, so you're cashing in with a sequel? I was like, you don't normally cash in?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Ten years later, it's like. And. And so I really was excited that there was a story there. But, man, when Cindy Bond originally wanted to make a movie around even if she wanted to just find any story, like fan mail, something. And it was when I met with Brent McCorkle, who wrote co wrote Imagine did Jesus Revolution. And he goes, well, where'd the song come from? And as I told him the story, that's when he had tears in his eyes and he was like, this is it. And what if we literally got the band back together and put it kind of in this universe and made it a sequel? And. And so I was like. I was a little skeptical because, you know, you never think your life's that interesting and it's not. He made it very interesting.

[Caller]

But.

[Ken Coleman]

But yeah, when I read the script, I was like, okay, yeah, let's do this.

[George Campbell]

Well, so much of the story is about The. The true cost of success, the underbelly of, you know, you. You have this thing hit, and there's other pieces of your life that you get a flat tire in because you're so focused on your career. And I know a lot of our fans experience that. So where does this movie pick up? Is it a direct connection?

[Andy Irwin]

You know, I think the thing that was beautiful that I was excited about is that, you know, there was a chance to kind of take it farther. And I, you know, I love the stories in the building here. Just how, you know, Dave has never shied away from that. A lot of this was born out of failure and out of, you know, learning at the lowest point. And so, you know, with Bart's story, I was really, really just excited that he was willing to look at. On the other side of success, of what happens if happily ever after breaks? What happens if you get everything you've ever dreamed of? You know, the crowd starts, stops cheering, they go home. And then life goes back to being hard. And where's God in the hardship there? And so this new character, Tim Timmons, kind of gets brought into the mix, played by Milo Ventimiglia. Incredible that people know from this Is Us and Gilmore Girls and all that type stuff. And is that based on Tim? Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, Tim is. Yeah, he's the guy. So he's.

[Ken Coleman]

I play pickleball with Tim. The movie's about Tim Tibbets.

[George Campbell]

They were pickleball.

[Ken Coleman]

He's been. He's been hurt. He's been playing. So he showed up recently and the weather's been rough, but I gotta tell you, I'm a little excited. Keep going. I apologize. So it's Tim. Goosebumps.

[Andy Irwin]

So Tim's one of Bart's best friends.

[Ken Coleman]

We co wrote Even if. And so the story is how we got to write that song.

[George Campbell]

We got to that point.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that dude. I've known him long, long time, but didn't know that you're about to get a lot of him. I gotta text him on the way. He'll be like, dude, you're holding out on us. I'm gonna embarrass him next Wednesday night when we play.

[Andy Irwin]

I love it. Please do. If you can can embarrass Tim Timmons, then you're good luck. You're special. Because he's. He's hard to embarrass.

[Ken Coleman]

That's true.

[Andy Irwin]

But he and. He and Milo just hit it off. And Milo really wanted to make the faith authentic. And so Tim is this guy that gets thrown into Bart's world and is carrying this kind of secret about his own journey and but has this idea of gratitude, living with gratitude of God. Thank you that you woke me up today in this kind of tension between grief and gratitude. And he begins to kind of encourage Bart in this journey. And it leads to this amazing song. And ultimately is the healing of this father son story of Bart as a father towards his son. And we finished it at Red Rocks. We filmed the end of the movie at Red Rocks.

[George Campbell]

Oh, that's epic.

[Andy Irwin]

8,500 people. They showed up and it's epic.

[Ken Coleman]

I love it. We're talking about the new movie I can only imagine two in theaters February 20th. Bart, I want to give you a final word to encourage our audience because these people, as you know well, are walking through some tough, tough stuff. You know, our baby steps, while simple to explain, are very difficult to do. And I've just kind of moved as Andy was talking about the theme of this film. Encourage people who are in those dark days of just scrambling to maybe come up with a thousand bucks or they're in the middle of baby step two where they're paying off debt and it feels like an insurmountable climb. What would you say to them? Man, life is messy. You know, whether you're standing on stage or in the audience, doesn't matter what's happening in your life. Life happens. And it's learning to live with grief or stress or worry and gratitude at the same time and realizing that the cliche of God is good all the time, it's that and not God is good. If X, Y and Z happens or comes into place and God's bigger than that and he's in all of it. If he's not, then we're hopeless. I love it. Well, folks, if you loved the first movie and millions of you did, I can only imagine. Well, I can only imagine two coming out in theaters February 20th. Also a special fan event. A little kind of a sneak peek. Give us real quick 10 seconds on this.

[Andy Irwin]

February 14th we got a. A fan event where they'll, they'll have a one night screening all across the country February 14th. So you can get some early access stuff they, they recorded even if with at Abbey Road in London.

[Ken Coleman]

Where do they get details from?

[Andy Irwin]

They get details online. I can only imagine movie.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is. I can only imagine movie.com. did I get that right? I think I got it right.

[Andy Irwin]

I probably got it wrong.

[Ken Coleman]

Date night. Valentine's Day night. Yeah, you can't miss it. Valentine's Day is great. Hey guys, thanks for being with us, Andy. Appreciate you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramseysolutions.com sponsor smartvestor to get connected.

[George Campbell]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, our scripture of the day comes from Luke 16:10. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. Our quote today from John Wooden, do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do. Trent is joining us now in Idaho. Trent, how can I help?

[Caller]

Hey, George Akin. So I was calling ahead a question. So kind of got a late start my retirement and I'm currently in a good position building my retirement up, but I don't really have, I've got a wife and four kids and we're, we're planning on adding two more kids but the, the small town we live in doesn't really offer experience or opportunity for our kids to grow. And I got a potential job opportunity in my company in a larger city where there is more opportunity for my kids. But we would sacrifice our 401k girls that we're building right now. Kind of wanted some advice.

[George Campbell]

What do you mean sacrificing growth there? Because you said it's with your company.

[Caller]

Yes, so, so currently right now my housing, it's, we pay like 300 bucks a month on rent. And so we have been able to put, for the last two years we've been putting 40% of each paycheck into retirement into my 401k Roth. And so we've been able to build a lot in the last two years and then, but in the small town, there's not a lot of opportunities for kids to grow and learn things.

[George Campbell]

So you're saying you'll have less money to put into retirement due to a higher cost of living?

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

What is your, what's your pay now and what would it be in the new city?

[Caller]

So it would be, I'm currently getting paid around 74,000 a year. And it's, it was put on the table. So I don't have like a set amount that I would be getting paid in the new city. It would be either equal to or maybe a little bit more than what I'm currently making.

[George Campbell]

So it'd be a lateral move, but you'd have more opportunities for your family in general, a better quality of life, let's say. Yes, I'm taking that over, you know, more than a 401k.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I'm just sitting here listening and listening to the line of questioning and I'm going, this is a no brainer to me. What would be the doubt that you have about this?

[Caller]

Because, because how so? Like right Now I have 165,000 in my Roth 401K. And so we've been able. That's where we're at right now. And we're, we're saving, saving, saving. Trying to build it up as.

[Ken Coleman]

But why, but I don't understand again, what, what is that the doubt you're going to be making more money?

[Caller]

Well, it would be. Well, yes, because we wouldn't be putting as much into. And we'd also.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but you also are going to have some type of a 401k or a Roth program with that company.

[George Campbell]

Can you still invest 15% in this new area? Because that's the baby steps until you pay off the house which you guys said you're renting right now.

[Caller]

Well, Curly, right now we're just in the. Yeah, we're, we just, we rent. We don't have.

[George Campbell]

No goal would be to own a home and then pay that house off one day while investing 15%. How old are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, hold on, hold on. I don't. Let's get to that. But, but Trent, I'm not sure that we've, we've landed for yourself. Why you have doubt about taking this better job with, with better opportunities for your family?

[Caller]

Because of the opportunity that I currently have to build my retirement.

[George Campbell]

That's not the reason. It's not for a 401k. What makes you so freaked out about this retirement account that you're shoving 40% of your money into it?

[Caller]

I'd like to retire early.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let's say there. If you take this new job, will you be making more money? Yes or no?

[Caller]

It will be equal to, or maybe a little bit more, but it's, it'll probably be just like a even right across.

[Ken Coleman]

Then why are you considering it a better opportunity?

[Caller]

Better opportunity for my kids in my Family. So, like, they're.

[Ken Coleman]

In what way? Give me specifics.

[Caller]

Specifics. So, like, activities as far as, like sporting activities, getting them involved in extracurricular.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so better quality of life. We can say that, yes.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let me come back to it. Let's call this company xyz. And I'm not. I'm not totally cutting you off, George, but I feel like we're stuck here. Trent, does company XYZ have a retirement program so that the day you come in there, they start. You start contributing through them just like you are now?

[Caller]

Well, it did. It is through my company. So they do a. They match up to 3%. And then.

[Ken Coleman]

So, okay, this is through your current company.

[Caller]

Correct. And it is. The. The company I'd be going to is the same company. It's just a different location.

[George Campbell]

So he's just saying he's going to have less money because it's a higher cost of living. So he can't put as much into the 401k. That's the only thing here that you're worried about.

[Ken Coleman]

I missed that part because I thought there was an opportunity for you to grow financially in this job.

[George Campbell]

And I would make the case with your employer that, hey, if I'm going to make this move to a higher cost of living area, move my family, I need more compensation for this to then cover the higher expenses. I think that's a fair thing to negotiate.

[Ken Coleman]

It's fair. But at the same time, Trent, if this is better quality of life for your family and you're still in good shape, and George, you were going to go to the numbers here to show.

[George Campbell]

The key is, can you live off of $80,000 in this new city? Can you cover all of your bills?

[Caller]

Yes, we can. My wife and I are. We're.

[George Campbell]

Do you have any debt?

[Caller]

No, no debt at all.

[George Campbell]

How much do you have in savings for an emergency fund?

[Caller]

We have 8,000 in our emergency fund and have around 42,000 in our savings.

[George Campbell]

Do you have 50,000 in cash? Essentially, yes. Okay. And how old are you?

[Caller]

38.

[George Campbell]

Okay, you're 38. You wanted to retire early. Can we call that 55? Is that fair?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. If you never get a raise, you invest that thousand bucks a month. That's the money you're putting in 15% plus some employer match. You'd have about 1.5 million doll at 55 from that one account. That's if you never get a raise from 38 to 55, which we can all agree is a ridiculous proposition. So what's Likely to happen is you purchase a home, you pay that home off, you increase your investing, you get raises along the way, and all of a sudden it looks more like $2 million at 55. And that's with you cutting back to 15%. So the question I would ask is, can I move to this new stock city while investing 15% of my income and cover all the bills, cover this new rent, which is going to be higher than $300? And I think you're going to find the answer is yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Is the answer yes, Trent?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah, we're.

[Ken Coleman]

He's got a good grasp.

[Caller]

My wife and I are smart.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Trent, you're such a detailed guy. You're on top of it. I know you've done all this research. So again, what's the big doubt? Do we still have the doubt? Yes. He's laughing. There's some doubt.

[George Campbell]

You've got four opposing goals here. I want the kids to have a better life, but I also want to put 40% into my 401k. And I also. And so you've got to just go, what is the best thing for our family right now? And I think we. It's very clear. It's moving to this new city. Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And you're fine on retirement. I'm really not worried about that. You're in great shape. If you keep staying out of debt, you work your butt off, you're going to keep getting raises.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

You're going to get a home. You're going to pay that home off in the next 15 years and then you have a paid for home and 2 million bucks in the bank in your 50s.

[Ken Coleman]

Where's your wife at on this decision?

[Caller]

She is leaning more towards the retirement. Putting more into the retirement. Which is why I'm. I'm hesitant and not.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, see, this is information that I was trying to dig from you.

[George Campbell]

But I think we need to get to the root of why she's so worried about that. Because you guys are on track to multimillionaires. And so I think there is an unhealthy fear that is not rooted in reality about this.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

And you're sacrificing, remember the quality of life for your children for the foreseeable future by staying where you are. So you've got to choose which one is going to lead to a better life.

[Ken Coleman]

George, what's your vote? I would vote for quality of life.

[George Campbell]

I would move yesterday.

[Ken Coleman]

I would, too. Quality of life is just something you can't measure until it happens. All right, Appreciate the call. And hey, everybody, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.