When Money Feels Confusing, Clarity Matters Most

Summary

The Ramsey Show Podcast Summary

Episode: When Money Feels Confusing, Clarity Matters Most
Air Date: April 13, 2026
Hosts: Ken Coleman & George Kamel (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers on breaking through financial confusion and achieving clarity, no matter your mistakes or situation. Ken Coleman and George Kamel take listener calls on topics ranging from crushing debt, navigating windfalls, handling family financial dynamics, and making crucial career and money decisions. Using the proven Ramsey Baby Steps, the hosts offer practical, compassionate advice and tackle the emotional and relational complexities behind money challenges.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Facing Down Debt and Creating Game Plans

(Call with Zay, 00:47–09:00)

• Zay, new to Ramsey's plan, calls for guidance on tackling $53k in debt (buy-now-pay-later, personal loan, expensive car, multiple credit cards).
• Discussion stresses budgeting, unified family finances, and the hard truth about overwhelming car payments.
• Zay and her husband are contemplating an overseas move but face an $800/month car payment and negative equity.
• Quote:
  George Kamel (03:32): “Little indigestion on that one. That $800 a month car payment.”
• Plan: Save aggressively to offload the car, cut unnecessary expenses, and pursue financial unity before making big life changes.

2. Windfalls, Guilt, and Money After Loss

(Call with Rose, 10:44–19:46)

• Rose receives a $125k life insurance payout but is overwhelmed, $51k in debt, no savings, and emotionally exhausted after family losses.
• Ken & George walk her step-by-step: Pay off all debt, establish a robust emergency fund, earmark money for a future home purchase, and begin retirement investing.
• They also touch on the emotional hurdles of being a helper and learning to put herself first.
• Quote:
  George Kamel (15:13): “Imagine that. No debt payments and $24,000 sitting in the bank. And you still have $50,000 left.”
• The call ends with encouragement to seek coaching, professional help, and the freedom to dream for the future.

3. Family Dynamics and Financial Wisdom for Young Adults

(Call with Jackie, 21:48–29:20)

• Jackie seeks advice for her daughter (18), caught between parents’ conflicting advice on investing in silver versus safer college savings.
• George advises against speculative assets for college-bound teens and highlights the mathematical power of long-term stock market growth over commodities.
• Quote:
  George Kamel (26:02): “If she parks $10k in the stock market from 18 to 58, she’d have over half a million dollars.”
• The hosts emphasize teaching delayed gratification and the value of showing, not just telling, the basics of compound growth.

4. Overcoming Car Debt, Budget Woes & Major Life Shifts

(Call with Shannon, 34:01–42:16)

• Pregnant, overwhelmed by debt and car troubles, Shannon wants guidance on whether to take on more debt or wait.
• The hosts strongly advise against new debt, urge her to prioritize insurance, and help her create a plan using EveryDollar budgeting.
• They confront relationship dynamics and advocate for responsibility from her partner.
• Quote:
  Ken Coleman (41:56): “How would you describe your stress on a scale of 1 to 10 related to money right now? 12.”

5. Self-Sabotage, Spending Triggers, & Getting Unstuck

(Call with Chase, 44:19–52:02)

• At 20, Chase is $30k in debt and recognizes a pattern of “retail therapy” spending when stressed.
• The hosts stress behavioral change: deleting enabling apps, selling unused items for momentum, and accountability for habits.
• George emphasizes the difference between integrity, intentions, and setting up life with friction against bad choices.
• Quote:
  George Kamel (50:00): “I know I’m able and willing to do stupid stuff with money. So that’s the kind of value line in the sand you need to draw for yourself.”

6. Teaching Kids About Scarcity and Abundance

(Call with Frank, 54:19–59:09)

• Frank’s 10-year-old daughter worries about money, likely influenced by her mom’s tighter finances.
• Ken and George advise open conversation, reassurance, and modeling financial security.
• Importance of teaching generosity to overcome anxiety.
• Quote:
  George Kamel (57:00): “This isn’t your money. Today’s not that day, sweetheart. Daddy’s got you.”

7. Big Career Changes, Pensions, & Purpose

(Call with Anthony, 60:11–63:39)

• At 52, IRS worker Anthony wants permission to switch to a lower-paying, more meaningful career.
• Advises not sacrificing quality of life for employer benefits, especially with solid finances and no debt.
• Considers bridging with side work to ease the pay cut.
• Quote:
  Ken Coleman (61:54): “I’m not going to trade five years of misery for really good eye care... when you can afford that in a better gig.”

8. Navigating Debt Relief Programs & Regret

(Call with Katherine, 76:19–80:13)

• Katherine regrets enrolling in a debt consolidation plan and wonders if she should exit.
• Hosts recommend getting out, negotiating settlements directly, and avoiding fees/scams tied to debt relief companies.
• Quote:
  George Kamel (80:13): “These programs overpromise and underdeliver while ruining your financial life… You can do all that yourself.”

9. Permission to Enjoy Life Amid Responsibility

(Call with Rachel & with Aubrey, 81:09–126:11)

• Rachel wonders if it’s OK to spend $5–6k on an anniversary trip (Baby Step 4/5). Aubrey asks about pausing extra mortgage payments for travel.
• Hosts affirm the value of living intentionally and without guilt—celebrate milestones when you’re stable and responsible.
• Quotes:
  George Kamel (83:00): “There’s no guilt in you being a stay-at-home mom and feeling like… you deserve it as much as anybody.”
  Ken Coleman (124:26): “Live a little, you know?”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ken Coleman (87:46): “Just tell them you made a payment arrangement. We’re still going through it. And then they can figure it out. And I’m like, ‘OK, good.’ I think that’s what you have to pull.”
• George Kamel (107:59): “Whenever I hear the word ‘I have an opportunity’ and it involves going into a bunch of debt when you already have a bunch of debt, it tells me it’s not an opportunity. It’s a burden disguised as an opportunity.”
• Scotty Pippen quote (117:06): “A Gucci wallet and a Target wallet hold the same amount of money. A $10 million house and $100,000 house host the same loneliness…”

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Zay’s Debt Breakdown: 00:47–09:00
• Life Insurance Windfall for Rose: 10:44–19:46
• Family Conflict Over Investments: 21:48–29:20
• Pregnancy, Debt, & Car Stress: 34:01–42:16
• Retail Therapy & Young Adult Debt: 44:19–52:02
• Teaching Children Financial Security: 54:19–59:09
• Midlife Career Change & Pensions: 60:11–63:39
• Debt Consolidation Regrets: 76:19–80:13
• Guilt-Free Milestone Celebration: 81:09–84:47 (Rachel), 123:18–126:11 (Aubrey)

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Episode Takeaways

• Clarity begins with facing your real numbers and emotions, not ignoring or masking them.
• The Ramsey Baby Steps provide a proven, step-by-step path for all, whether you’ve hit rock bottom or are managing a sudden windfall.
• Guilt often clouds financial decisions— from helping others to enjoying milestones. Overcome this by focusing on intentionality and planning.
• Open conversation, especially with family and kids, builds resilience and generational wisdom.
• “Opportunities” that pull you deeper into debt are rarely a blessing— true financial peace means waiting until you’re ready, not just acting while you’re able.
• Support and encouragement are as critical as tactical advice on the journey to financial freedom.

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Style and Tone

Hosts Ken Coleman and George Kamel deliver guidance with warmth, humor, candor, and the occasional hard truth. The tone is motivational and empathetic, mixing practical financial action steps with honest acknowledgment of fears, emotions, and family dynamics surrounding money.

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For listeners, this episode is both a playbook for financial clarity and a source of empowerment, reminding you that clarity—and peace—come from knowing the facts, facing reality, and taking your next best step, one at a time.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. 888-255-2225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman by the incomparable George Camel. No bomber jacket today, just a shacket. And he's looking.

[George Campbell]

I didn't want to outdo you, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

You're looking as dapper as ever. We're ready to go. Let's start it off with Zay in Austin, Texas. Zay, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, I was just calling in. Just want to say I love the show and I'm new to Ramsey, but I'm really throwing myself into, you know, everything that y' all teach. I've already completed baby step one, and I just wanted some direction on how to get through step two.

[George Campbell]

Well, welcome aboard Z Baptism by fire.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's go. Proud of you. So what's the picture? Give us the financial picture. In baby step two. What are we working on?

[Caller]

We're working through about $53,000 in debt.

[George Campbell]

You said 53 by now?

[Caller]

Yes, sir, 53,000.

[George Campbell]

All right, break it down for us.

[Caller]

It's going to be about $3,287 in buy now, pay later debt, $785 in personal loan debt, $39,380 in car debt. And I have five credit cards. One with Kay Jewelers for $1,415. One was Navy Federal for $4,300, one with Capital, one for $1,500, one with Discover for $1,250 and another one with Chase for 1,000. And all those are maxed out except for the card for the. The ring.

[George Campbell]

I'm exhausted hearing about this. I can't imagine how you're feeling carrying it.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[George Campbell]

At least you know your numbers. That's honestly the. That tells me you're actually going to get out of this thing, because most people have no clue what's going on. They don't want to know. And, Zay, you've made a bold choice to go. I'm going to stare this thing right in the face and tackle it.

[Ken Coleman]

Love it.

[Caller]

Absolutely. It's a lot.

[Ken Coleman]

Tell us your income.

[Caller]

So I actually just got promoted to full time from part time, so now I make 55,000 a year. And my husband's in the military, and he makes 30,000 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so we're looking at 85,000. You guys are joint finances, I hope.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. And is he on board with this baby step stuff and this Ramsey stuff? Is he on board or is he freaking out thinking that you got abducted by aliens? What's going on? Where's he at?

[Caller]

Definitely abducted by aliens. Cause I was like, hey, man, we're doing all this stuff, man. I'm paying. We paying off all these credit cards, and then we're closing them. He said, closing them? I said, closing them. And he was like, we'll come back to it. I was like, okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I knew it was one or the other. Right. We've just taken too many calls. So that's a. George, that's now an interesting wrinkle in this process.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

I want to know whose car this is.

[Caller]

The car's in my name. It's mine. I had it before we got married.

[Ken Coleman]

What's it worth?

[Caller]

It's only worth 25,000.

[George Campbell]

What's the payment on it?

[Caller]

$800 a month.

[Ken Coleman]

Yikes. Where's my Pepto Bismol? George, do you have it?

[George Campbell]

I don't. I think we ran out. You used the supply last week.

[Ken Coleman]

Little indigestion on that one. That $800 a month car payment.

[Caller]

Poof.

[George Campbell]

Now, did you roll over negative equity? What happened here?

[Caller]

Yes, I rolled over negative equity. I had a Chevrolet, which. I didn't know those. Obviously all of them dep. Apparently those super depreciate. And the only reason I wanted a different car is because I commute to work an hour every day. And the car that I had wasn't going to suit the drive, gas mileage wise. So I got a. A 2025 Toyota Camry.

[George Campbell]

That's the only car that could get you an hour each way. That makes sense.

[Caller]

Yeah. I was trying to.

[George Campbell]

It was a joke. You don't need a 2025 car to get you anywhere. Okay? Just say you wanted a brand new, shiny car.

[Ken Coleman]

Stop shouting, George.

[George Campbell]

I'm just.

[Ken Coleman]

You're getting a little.

[George Campbell]

It was a test. It was a test.

[Caller]

What do you.

[Ken Coleman]

What. Let me ask a. What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm a bank teller.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Is there. And I'm just asking. This is not the primary focus of your call, nor should it be our coaching, but I wonder if you could get a job in the near future doing bank telling or something similar for the same pay that doesn't require you to drive an hour each way?

[Caller]

I actually did try to find a job in my area. We live Right next to a base. So I see the area is, you know, usually not the best around it. And the paid, the pay, I make 24 here. And when I started job hunting, the most they would offer was 12 to 14 over there.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, very good.

[George Campbell]

And why is your husband only making 30?

[Caller]

He's pretty low rank.

[George Campbell]

He's only an E3, but that still feels. I mean, that's close to minimum wage at this point.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, they give us bah and everything, but we don't see it because we live in base housing. So our house, our roof over our head is taken care of.

[George Campbell]

Well, that means your expenses are super low. So do you have any money left over at this point to throw at the debt?

[Caller]

So, no, I. Last year I quit my job for two months and that was not the best choice. And we've been kind of drowning, just kind of treading water ever since. Just trying to, like, make sure things get paid at the very least.

[George Campbell]

So you have a thousand bucks in savings and nothing else to your name?

[Caller]

No. Yeah, Everything else is flying the bill, pretty much every check.

[Ken Coleman]

But have you done a budget to where you can answer the question of how much margin do you have that you could throw at this debt? And what I mean by margin is after we've paid the basics, right, so you don't have housing, so I'm assuming you don't have utilities or any of that stuff. So your basic bills above and beyond that, do you know how much you could throw at this debt every month?

[Caller]

Well, what we wanted to do is try to start using only my. The money I make now and then just surviving on his paycheck. It seems kind of hard. With the $800 car note, I agree.

[George Campbell]

To make that work, staying in debt is going to be even harder. So we've got a hard choice to make here, which is we're going to have to get out of this car debt. And the only way to do that is to come up with the difference that we're underwater on. So you said it's worth 25. Was that private party value or was that a trade in value?

[Caller]

I looked on Kelly blue book for private party. Yes, sir.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so that means you're 14 grand underwater on this thing. So that's the number we need to come up with. Now, do you have another vehicle you could use in the meantime?

[Caller]

No, sir, we're a single. We're a single vehicle family.

[George Campbell]

So that's the one. So we need to also come up with a little bit more money to get You a different car that is used in cash, probably five grand.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

So once you add the 14 plus, let's say the five, that's about 20 grand that you need to come up with in order to get out of the 40. Do you see how that's a good deal?

[Caller]

I do, yes. That's what I was saying. We want to end up he's going to be getting moved soon and we want to go overseas. So that's why we were really like, okay, when you start going hard, because we want to either get rid of the car or something like that. We want to go over there with like no debt whatsoever.

[George Campbell]

What is going overseas do for you guys financially?

[Caller]

Financially, we'll be going down to a single income, so we're hoping he'll get a little bit more rank and we just want to, you know, have a different living experience on base and stuff.

[George Campbell]

I think this is a fantasy right now. You guys can't live off two incomes with the debt you have. And so this idea of going overseas is going to have to wait until you guys are completely debt free.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[George Campbell]

So here's the math. You got 53 grand. Usually it takes people 18 to 24 months to pay off their consumer debt. If they go hard. Using our plan, that means you got to be throwing 26,5 a year at this debt. That's about 2,200amonth. So that's the real napkin math of what it's going to take. And freeing up that $800 payment is your ticket. Which means we got to save up 19, 20 grand fast by selling stuff, working extra, living on nothing. Then we can finally get some breathing room and crush the rest of our 14k in debt.

[Caller]

Tomorrow morning is knocking.

[George Campbell]

Stock your fridge now.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink?

[Caller]

Or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe?

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Or a white chocolate mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries.

[Ken Coleman]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our relationships and on our mental and emotional health. Money fights are one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I know this personally. My wife and I have struggled over the years with money conflicts over and over again. Therapy can help, even with money. Therapy is not about giving you financial advice, but it can give you strategies to better communicate about money, help you build healthier ways of coping, and help you build a plan to move forward with your mental and emotional health and your money. I want you to consider talking to my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals. BetterHelp therapists are fully licensed in the United States and they work according to a strict code of conduct. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com Ramsey. All right, next is Rose. Rose is joining us in St. Louis. Rose, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hello, gentlemen. The reason that I'm calling is because I am. I was the sole beneficiary of a life insurance policy and I am completely illiterate when it comes to finances. And I've never seen this much. I've never dealt with this much money. I mean, it's not like a gazillion dollars or anything, but it's substantial. And I'm $51,000 in debt. I had a huge back surgery three years ago, and I'm still catching up from that. And it's a truck payment. It's personal loan, a title loan, and its credit cards and medical, medical bills. That's what I owe. I'm receiving $125,000. And so your steps are going to be wiped out. And, Well, I mean, 1, 2 and 3 and 4 maybe are going to be wiped out, but I don't know what to do with the rest of the money. And should I pay it all? Should I pay all of my debt at once? What should I do after I pay it? Okay, let's go back.

[Ken Coleman]

Quick review. I want to. Gotcha. We gotcha. Let me quick review. Is the total debt, everything you listed out, is the total debt equaling to 51,000 or is it 51,000 plus?

[Caller]

That's total debt.

[Ken Coleman]

So your total debt is 51,000.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Do you have any other money in savings?

[Caller]

We have no savings.

[Ken Coleman]

You have zero savings. And is the 125,000, is that net to you or is that before tax?

[Caller]

That's net to me. I'm. There's no tax in Missouri or. I don't know. I don't know the specifics, but I know I don't pay tax on life insurance.

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, George, take over, buddy.

[George Campbell]

So baby step one is $1,000 starter emergency fund. You're right. That's taken care of baby step two, we're going to wipe out all the consumer debt. All 51. That's taken care of. And then you're going to build your three to six months of expenses in an emergency fund. And we're going to park that in a savings account. A high yield savings account is even better because at least it'll grow a little bit and grow with inflation.

[Caller]

High yield, what's that mean?

[George Campbell]

That's just a type of savings account. They're usually tied to a lot of online banks. We've got a great one with Fairwinds Credit Union, who's a sponsor of this show. And they created a bundle just for our fans like you. And they've got it. And so you can go to fairwinds.org Ramsey open up one of those. And that's a great place to just sock away money and not do anything with it right now. That's what I'm encouraging you to do.

[Caller]

Six months.

[George Campbell]

So what's six months of expenses for you guys to cover all of your bills? Oh, without your debt payments after my debt. That's going to be nice. Yeah.

[Caller]

Fifteen hundred dollars.

Wow.

We bring home 8,000amonth. I work for the postal service and my husband is a truck driver. And we, we make decent money, but we've been robbing Peter to pay Paul. When I was out of war. I lost $52,000 the year I had my back surgery and it crippled. And I paid for funerals of my family. I've always taken care of everybody else in my whole life and I've never been able to save for me because I've always felt guilt because I've had more money than other people in my family have. So I buried my parents, I buried my brothers and I paid for all of that that goes with it. And I don't have any family left and it's just my husband and I. And I don't want anybody to know about this because I don't want to be taking anything.

[George Campbell]

We won't tell a soul, Rose. It's just between you and a couple million listeners.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Nobody knows. Nobody knows.

[George Campbell]

But I think you've been helping everyone your whole life. It's time to help Rose. For you, who was. Who passed away?

[Caller]

My ex husband.

[George Campbell]

I'm sorry for your loss. But the legacy here is Rose is set free from the bondage of her debts.

[Caller]

Yeah. So what do I do? Well, what do I do with the extra income?

Well, we're going to tell you my bills are paid.

[George Campbell]

Well, let me, let me lay out the math for you, 125,000 minus the 51 in debt, that leaves you with 74,000. You tracking?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Let's set aside 24,000 in a high yield savings account. That's going to be your emergency fund. Plus, because you have been living a life of scarcity, it's time for a little abundance. This is your never go into debt again insurance plan. You understand?

[Caller]

I could cry.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's okay.

[George Campbell]

You've never paid 24,000 to protect you.

[Ken Coleman]

This is huge.

[George Campbell]

It is emotional.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a restart.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, it's great.

[George Campbell]

Imagine that. No debt payments and $24,000 sitting in the bank and you still have $50,000 left.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen to this part, Rose. This is where it gets fun. George, tell her what she's won.

[George Campbell]

You've won a lifetime without stress, rose. So that 50 grand now can be used to do a couple of things. We can invest some of it. We could max out a retirement account, a Roth ira, for example. We can invest outside of retirement if you have, you know, near term goals and you can use that to give and spend. When's the last time you spent money on yourself?

[Caller]

And I've never bought a house. So where does that go into all of that?

[George Campbell]

That. Well, that becomes your starter down payment. So now we have 50 grand as a down payment. So what kind of house are you looking for? What's that going to cost you in your area for a reasonable home?

[Caller]

I don't, I don't, I don't want no more than a two hundred thousand dollar house.

[George Campbell]

That sounds reasonable.

[Caller]

And we want to pull a jacuzzi a yard for our dog.

[George Campbell]

Now we're talking.

[Caller]

Well, that's all I want. I don't want nothing luxurious.

[Ken Coleman]

That's all George wants. Your list is the same as his. He wants a backyard Jacuzzi and he's got two dogs.

[George Campbell]

I want a Jacuzzi for the dog. That'd be ideal.

[Ken Coleman]

You would do that?

[George Campbell]

I'm sure. It's a thing. So, Rose, that's going to become your down payment money then. So you got your 24k emergency fund, 50k for your down payment, and then keep adding to it because guess What? You make eight grand, you spend 1500.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

You can sock away $6500 a month toward that down payment fund.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

And earmark it. And in fair winds you can actually earmark the different savings accounts. So mark one for emergencies, mark the other one for down payment and just start adding money to that every single month.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And with the nice income George that they've got, they should be able to get right into baby step four immediately with 15% when they're on every dollar.

[George Campbell]

So every month now that's where I'm

[Caller]

going to need to reach out to somebody. And I bought the $79 thing. What's the 70?

[George Campbell]

Oh, every dollar.

[Caller]

Easy money.

[George Campbell]

Yes. So that is going to be the foundation of your financial world because you're going to be budgeting for every one of those dollars coming in so that they don't slip away into the abyss because rose found a new opportunity to do something over here. And so that's going to help you make a plan for all those $8,000. And I'm going to hook you up with a dream team. Number one is a trusted real estate pro. Okay. You need someone in your corner who can help you shop within your budget, who knows Rose's goals, who understands the Ramsey way to help you do this. Smart. So ramseysolutions do is the place to go.

[Caller]

I know Dave said that the credit cards aren't the end all be all. You shouldn't have to let you know have a credit card to be anybody special. And where do I is do you have someone within your team that'll help me navigate on that app? Because I have our income in there but I have no, I haven't done anything with it since I bought it. I have no idea.

[Ken Coleman]

So it has a coaching function in it.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Click on coaching within the menu and you can actually get a 10 minute session with someone from our team and every dollar who can help you get unstuck. And on top of that, there's a ton of group coaching, ongoing coaching you can jump into. I encourage you to do that. And then on the investment side, if you're like, hey, you said I'm illiterate when it comes to investing. I don't want to screw this up. We got you there too. You can reach out to a smartvestor pro on our website and they will help you navigate this newfound wealth that you're about to be building with your husband.

[Ken Coleman]

Rose, have you seen the movie Titanic?

[Caller]

I have.

[Ken Coleman]

When's the last time you watched it?

[Caller]

It's a favorite.

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I would queue it up. I would queue it up after you do everything that George said because you know, rose is the name of the title character and I think this is like you and your husband. After you clear all these steps, it's your heart will go on. Maybe, maybe you go. Maybe you go get a boat on the nearest lake. And you don't buy one. We're gonna rent one just for the day. We're gonna pay cash and you're gonna get out there and he's gonna be behind you and you're gon. My heart will go on and you're free and.

[George Campbell]

And we'll let that be the end of the movie. We're not going to continue in the plot.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. No more. Just that part.

[George Campbell]

Just the good part.

[Ken Coleman]

Just the free.

[Caller]

The door.

[Ken Coleman]

The debt free part. Right. That's what we're talking about. That's what life is going to feel like on the other side of this. Pardon the cheesy metaphor, but it may be one of the greatest movies of all time.

[George Campbell]

George, this is an amazing launchpad for you. Rose, I'm so proud of you. And you are very wise to be self aware and a little paranoid and go, I don't trust people with this. I don't know what to do with this. I'm so glad you called us. We are here for you. If you need Anything else, Ramsey Solutions.com click on SmartVestor Pro. Click on real estate pro. They will guide you in this and our everydollar team will help you out in there.

[Ken Coleman]

On the coaching side of it, click the coaching button. Every dollar is with you the whole way. You don't. You won't be alone. Rose, we're so proud of you. You were. You're a blast of fresh air today. Thank you for calling us, Sam.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Ken Coleman]

Let's go to Jackie next in Philadelphia. Jackie, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my Call. I have a situation. My daughter is getting ready to graduate from high school. She has an educational IRA that grandparents have been giving her money ever since she was a baby. So we have that. We have about $30,000 in that. She was also gifted about 15,000 about four years ago, and I'm not exactly sure when, but her dad encouraged her to invest some. Take some of that money and invest it in silver. He is under the impression that it is going to go to $300 an ounce.

[George Campbell]

What kind of insider knowledge does he have? I think only God himself knows that information.

[Caller]

Yeah, I keep asking those questions, and it's maybe conspiracy theory type stuff. He is very confident in his assertions, and hence my struggle with trying to get her to say, well, yeah, you probably have made some money recently in silver, but it's time to pull it out and put it into something less volatile, like take advantage of what you've earned and put it into something that you're not going to lose on. And he wants her to hold it on, hold onto it for the big win. And I'm seeing, like, it could also be the big lose. So I'm so sad. I would be sad for her to lose any gains that she's had. And I'm not confident in, like, going up against all his knowledge. And I wouldn't call it knowledge.

[George Campbell]

I think that's a very generous word you used for his.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's a strong opinion. I may be hearing something and I may not. Are you two married?

[Caller]

We're in the middle of divorce.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. The way you were talking about it. Okay, that makes sense, number one. And so that makes us trickier because now it's a splintered situation. Who knows what she's feeling? I don't know if she's taking sides. So this is a little trickier, George.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. There's a lot of emotion and baggage behind it because if she takes his side, it feels like, oh, you're choosing now one parent over the other because you have different advice and because you're not the quote, unquote, financial guru, you feel like you don't even have a voice in this conversation.

[Caller]

Pretty much.

[George Campbell]

Right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Which I'm. I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Part of all of this is probably why this marriage is being dissolved.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And so there's some really hard conversations you're gonna have with your daughter where you're not gonna make him look bad, but you're gonna share a different perspective and do it in a calm way that isn't Conspiratorial or fear mongering, which is probably what she's hearing right now.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So how old is she?

[Caller]

You said she's 18.

[George Campbell]

Okay, she's 18 years old. And how much does she have total? Is it 15,000 total? And she purchased some silver out of that?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so how much silver does she actually have?

[Caller]

I asked her that and she's not exactly sure. Her dad told her that it may be up to 30,000 right now, but he's given her the impression that that's a static number, like you've got that and it's only on paper kind of thing.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'm not sure of her original investment. I'm not sure what her amount of money.

[George Campbell]

And this is physical silver that was purchased?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Well, I can tell you the less stressful way to go about this is to just park that money in a tax advantaged retirement account or even non retirement account, it really doesn't matter. But the idea here is if this was working for her in the stock market from the age of 18 to let's say 58. All right, let's give it a 40 year run and let's say she did all 15,000 over there, is that fair as well? But, okay, let's call it 10. Yeah, okay, $10,000. 18 to 58. She never adds another dollar. Do you understand that? She just parks 10k, lets it grow in the stock market. Yeah, at a 10% rate of return, which they're going to come at me. That's just the data. If you look back, in fact, from 1950 to now, it's more like 11.8%. So if you just let it ride, she'd have over half a million dollars.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And that's without her worrying about it, without her losing her physical silver, without worrying about what the economy is doing. And the truth is, silver and gold have gone up in value in times where the economy is shaky. And they go back down in value as the stock market picks back up. But over time, if you actually look at the full picture, you will see the stock market has far outperformed any of these commodities and assets. So I'm on Team Jackie. I don't know how to convince your husband in the middle of that or convince your daughter while going through all of this, but the truth is, nothing is urgent.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

What did you.

[Caller]

She does have school. Like she's got college to pay for. Is this her college money?

[George Campbell]

Will she pay for her school?

[Caller]

Completely depends on what school she goes to.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, so you've given us a lot of variables. What is the. How can we help you the most now that we got a full picture? Is there something we didn't address?

[Caller]

No. What you're saying is if we do cash it out, which is what I want her to do, so I'm going to, you know, you think that's a good idea? Take the whatever gains and so you're saying it should be put in like another IRA or. Because she's going to need to take it out in a year or two.

[George Campbell]

Well, in that case, I would just cash it out and leave it in a high yield savings account so that it's liquid for her to pay for college. Because what's going to happen is she's going to go deeply into debt for college because I guarantee you, unless she goes to the community college down the road, 10k ain't getting you very far.

[Caller]

That's right, yeah, yeah.

[George Campbell]

And there's no other money, you're saying

[Caller]

no, she has 30,000 in an educational IRA. She has 30,000 educational. And then this silver money is on top of it.

[George Campbell]

Got it. So that's an education savings account, esa? Is that what you're talking about? Okay, so that might get her through one year potentially depending on where she goes, but we got to think about the next three. And so that's where, I mean, let's keep it liquid. I don't think you're going to see a lot of growth in the next one year, two year, three year, in fact, that money could go down. So you want to keep it more liquid because we need this for short term goals.

[Ken Coleman]

And I would just add this, Jackie, she's 18 years old, you already know there's very little control you have over a lot of the things she's doing. Now, what she will be doing when she goes to college, you've got an ex, soon to be ex husband who is going to be telling her hold it because I'm brilliant and I know this is going to pay off. And then you're given the exact opposite advice. So I'm just trying to encourage you as her mother, this is not about winning the argument. I think you just have to say, can I give you another school of thought and do what George did with you? Show her how that money should be used in your opinion. And then you got to let it ride because you're just in a tough situation where you got two parents. She's the one that's the victim in this deal. And so we don't know the dynamics of who she's choosing what she's feeling. Who does she listen to more on money, does she listen to her dad or you? So there's so much there. I'm just trying to make what already a very tough situation for you, hopefully as stress free as possible, that you got to explain it and let it go. That's all you can do. You know what I'm saying, George?

[George Campbell]

Like, it's just, well, and hearing that she's needing to go to college and pay for it, I go. It's not an argument about where to invest this money. It's we need to invest in her right now and her current education, not what could happen in the future. If she does this right and graduates debt free, we're not going to have to worry about her investing for the future. She'll be just fine.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly right. I want to stay where you were, where you just gave such a really nice little masterclass on what, $10,000 one time. Right. Turns into over half a million dollars. I don't think the average family with parents are saying, you know what, I may be struggling with debt, I may be trying to get out of this, but I've got a 15 year old or 14 year old, and if I can start telling them this now and they go get just a summer job at 15, 16, 17, you know, it's not as difficult as we might think.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

For a young person to come up with ten grand over the course of three or four summers.

[George Campbell]

Right. Well, investing in general has been democratized. It really has, in the last even decade to where now it's easy to open a Roth ira and any child is actually excited about it because they saw TikTok about it. And so financial literacy is all around you. The problem is there's so much noise that no one ends up doing any of it. They just go, that's a cool. I'm gonna save that for later. And yet no one's investing. And so if you can convince your kid that it's the old, what is it, the marshmallow test.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

You give a kid, hey, you can have one marshmallow now or you can have two in an hour. Most of the kids are gonna go, I'll take the marshmallow right now. And what this is, it's a lesson in delayed gratification.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And at 15, your brain can't fully comprehend that you want to go to the mall with your friends, you don't want to park in a retirement account, but you use our investment calculator, ramseysolutions. Dot com. They're gonna go, hold on, mom, I'm confused. 10,000 turned into 500,000. Explain that to me. Now you've got an end. To talk about compound growth and the power of delayed gratification, get in that

[Ken Coleman]

calculator, ramseysolutions.com and punch in different numbers. I did this the other day. George. You'd been very happy with my son.

[George Campbell]

Proud of you.

[Ken Coleman]

My son Chase and one of his buddies we were talking about. I said, all right, let me get my laptop out. So I go downstairs, bring it back up. And I said, all right, guys, give me some numbers. After I explain it. They were losing their mind.

[George Campbell]

They thought you were a mathematical genius.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no. They just saw that and they were like, that's real versus me telling them versus showing them. It's good stuff.

[George Campbell]

Calculator can't lie.

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[Ken Coleman]

Hey, if you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it, George, is by using every dollar. It's more now than just a budgeting app. The plan is built into every dollar. In other words, you can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching for your particular situation. And it's like having one of us walking around with you. Could you imagine having George on your phone all day long? I think I would be.

[George Campbell]

I think you'd turn your phone off eventually. No, I'm sick of this guy.

[Ken Coleman]

I want to know if I could get you to record all the basic responses that Siri does for me, and it would be your voice a little snark.

[George Campbell]

In there. Yeah, yeah. Especially before you make a purchase. I think I could talk you off a lot of ledges.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what we need, George, as your conscience.

[George Campbell]

Or I'm like, hey, Google a promo code first.

[Caller]

That's good.

[George Campbell]

You know, that's a good idea.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, you can start every dollar for free right now by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Shannon's up Next in Washington, D.C. shannon, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hello. So I'm calling because I'm new to the snowball method. So, you know, I'm just trying to gather everything and get that I want. I need to get a new car because currently I am pregnant. And my car that I currently have right now, it's been broken into a couple of times. There's, like, issues with it. So I just kind of don't feel safe having a baby in that car at the moment. The issue is that my car loan still has about $15,000 on it. And I wanted to. I called the contact the car company and they don't refinance. So I would have to either a new car loan with a new company for the new car and this current car loan, or I would have to find a car loan company that would take care of this current car and then also add a new car payment on top of that. And I just don't know I'm really where to start on that or if I should just wait until after I have the baby and like, save and try to get, like a car from, like an auction or something because, well,

[Ken Coleman]

let's play that one out. So that's our. The other two options aren't possible and aren't something that we're going to agree to.

[George Campbell]

You gave us this solution sucks and this one sucks even more. And therefore, we're going to find an option C for you that doesn't involve you going into more debt.

[Ken Coleman]

So you were thinking, I could work, I could save. What does that look like? How long would it take you to save up enough money to get something dependable?

[Caller]

Well, currently, right now, I do work full time. I make about 65 a year. But unfortunately my check right now is being garnished due to the devil of the credit cards.

[George Campbell]

So you had a judgment against you from unpaid credit cards, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

What other debts do you have?

[Caller]

I have outside of the car, student loans, about 12k on that, and that's about it. Again, I'm still new on finding all of my debts and pulling credit reports and stuff like that. So those are like the two Biggest ones that I have.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And you're married?

[Caller]

No, not currently.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Is the father in the picture?

[Caller]

Yes, he is. Is he supported as well?

[George Campbell]

What do the finances look like for the family?

[Caller]

Well, he works, he has two jobs. He works part time and then he has his own business. So the part time I would say probably about three to like 4,000. A month? No, probably 3,000amonth. And then his other business is a transport service. So it kind of varies depending on the job that he gets.

[George Campbell]

So likely is that 40 plus grand a year. Okay. Are you guys planning on getting married?

[Caller]

I'm eventually, but yeah, definitely a surprise to be pregnant, but eventually that.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, what is eventually? Do you have an idea if you were. I'm not holding you to this.

[George Campbell]

But what we're trying to get to the financial facts here and it changes it drastically if you make 100,000 versus 60.

[Ken Coleman]

So what is eventually? You think if he was sitting here with George and I were just having a fun conversation, not putting you on the spot, what's eventually look like? When was you guys thinking that you guys were going to get married? What would you, what would he say? What would you say?

[Caller]

I would probably say in like two years.

[George Campbell]

Goodness gracious. Why Shannon, is. Is he the one or is he just the dad? You can be honest, cuz I'm not going to force you to get married to someone you don't want to be married to.

[Caller]

Right? Yeah. I mean as it stands right now, he is just the dad. We do live together and you know, we've been in this relationship, but as far as like it progressing, I mean I'm not, I'm not like 100% sure if it's going to be.

[George Campbell]

So you're going to continue to play married couple but not combine finances, have zero support and just basically do all this on your own while being a new mom.

[Caller]

I mean I never thought I'd be in this situation, but

[George Campbell]

I have so much empathy for you. Cause I'm going, this sucks so badly that if I was this person in your life, the father of your child, I'm gonna go, well, time to put my big boy pants on and step up and provide for my wife who's in crippling debt while being pregnant. Cause the stress of that is not good. Not good for you mentally, physically, emotionally. So the key to get out of this. Back to your question is we're not going to go into debt. We're going to save up with our income to get a different car. Now how much is the car actually Worth, if you were to sell,

[Caller]

has a lot of problems with it because, again, somebody tried to steal it a couple of times. So when I did, like the Kelly Blue Book, it's probably only worth, like 5,000 at the most.

[George Campbell]

Did you file any insurance claims?

[Caller]

I didn't have insurance at the time.

[George Campbell]

Oh, boy. Do you have insurance now

[Caller]

for that car? No.

[George Campbell]

Shannon, you are putting yourself at huge risk. I would cut everything down to the bone before I went without insurance. Yeah, this is bad. You make $65,000. Is there not a dollar left at the end of the month?

[Caller]

No. Well, I mean, there is, but I had really bad payday loans, and so that was taking a lot of my money at one time. And, I mean, there's still some of them that are due, but I'm.

[George Campbell]

So we're adding. You told me you had a car loan, student loans, and credit card judgment, but not payday loans. How much is on the payday loans?

[Caller]

Well, I had. I'd probably say in total, probably like 7,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay, let's get real clear on that credit report. Let's lay them out smallest to largest. And then you're gonna make a budget for the first time. I'm gonna gift you every dollar, our premium budgeting app, so that you can make a plan on purpose with this app and then stick to it so that if you get four or five grand a month, you're gonna know where every single dollar is going. And all you're gonna do is cover your four walls right now. Food, utility, shelter, transportation, and insurance. You're gonna get car insurance Today. You're going to go to ramseysolutions.com and our team can help you find the coverage that you need in your budget. That's your number one piece of homework. And then after that, it's that every dollar budget, set it up. Our team will walk you through it. You can set up a free coaching call right there in the app to jump on a call with someone from our team if you get stuck. And then it becomes a game of how much can I save? How quickly can I save? Because we have have some urgency here with this baby on the way. When is the baby due?

[Caller]

In August.

[George Campbell]

So we only have a couple of months to do this, which means in the meantime, the baby might need to survive in this vehicle. And the good news is, you're not going to leave that baby alone in the car. The car's not getting broken into while you're in it, right?

[Caller]

Right.

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And so as long as it's not dangerous, it's not overheating on the highway. You're going to have to drive this car for a season until you have enough to get a different car. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And Shannon, listen, you're going to talk to other people that are going to tell you that we're crazy and that you need a safe brand new car and you'll just figure it out. But I'm going to tell you something. How would you describe your stress on a scale of 1 to 10 related to money right now? 12.

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[Ken Coleman]

Do you think that's good for your little baby and your body?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

And do you think taking on another car payment that's even bigger is going to help in any way, shape or form to help you get out of this mess? No. We might be the only people telling you the truth.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly right. And you can do this, by the way.

[George Campbell]

We're rooting for you. We're not trying to be harsh on you. We're trying to give you the reality so you can face the facts and then take the proper next steps. So jump on ramseysolutions.com get that auto insurance. We'll help you get that. Every dollar. Budget, budget setup. And you will feel so much better just being able to look at the numbers in reality. Hey guys, George Camel here. Listen, we need to talk about your phone plan because for a lot of you it's like a bad roommate. You know the one. Unpredictable moods, always asking for money, hard to get rid of and they never do the dishes. And that's what the so called big wireless carriers are like. They're counting on you overpaying forever. But Boost Mobile flipped the script. You can unlock up to $600 in savings per year over the big guys when you switch to Boost Mobile on their unlimited plan. There's no contracts, no hidden fees and no surprise email saying hey, your bill went up because reasons you see with Boost Mobile you bring your phone, keep your number and pay just 25 bucks a month. 25 bucks and that price is locked in forever. So if you're thinking okay George, that all sounds great, what's the catch? There isn't one. Boost Mobile backs it up with a 30 day money back guarantee which means you can try it without feeling trapped. People kick the bad roommate out. Head to BoostMobile.com Ramsey to make the switch today. That's BoostMobile.com Ramsey based on average annual payment of AT&T Verizon and T Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January 2026. See website for Full details.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside. We're here for you today. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. Chase joins us in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Chase, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Well, hi sir, like you already know, my name is Chase. I'm 20 years old. I currently work as an auto body technician which means as a flat rate employee. My, my income is quite variable. With that being said, I'm about 30,000 in dollars. $30,000 in debt spread across $16,000 poor decision toolbox about 11,000. A little more to my grandparents interest free and the rest is all on credit cards and whatnot. My main question is I have a horrible issue with the spending problem whenever I'm doing good at work and if I were to get stressed out, I just go and blow my money in retail therapy and what I can pay off in debt by the time I end up having a slow period in work like now around spring break, nobody's getting their cars fixed. I, I end up underwater and barely able to make my bills.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the first thing I want to say to you is good on you for calling us and calling out what's going on. I mean that's the self awareness is awesome, Chase. And I think that's the first step to you winning. You know, I just want to applaud you because you know there's something going on inside of you that when something goes wrong, stress, whatever, you immediately go buy something to make yourself feel better. That's a big deal. And I encourage you to keep digging into that and come up with tools, whether that's to go see a therapist or just do some hard work to go. You know what, I'm going to create some accountability in my life. I'm going to have somebody that I can call and that can talk me off the retail therapy ledge. Okay. I just wanted to encourage you on that because that's half the battle. Okay, so let's get into this debt. Did you let's talk about lay it out. Give us the smallest to largest, smallest to largest.

[Caller]

The smallest are some payment plans like Chase pay and forge cash app borrows at. I use on the slow weeks when I don't have enough to cover my bills that I have to tap into those to, you know, buy food.

[George Campbell]

I got a great solution for that. Can you delete those apps?

[Caller]

I well the Chase is my Chase banking app. So I stop banking with Chase, stop banking with Chase.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Switch banks.

[Caller]

Okay. And the cash app is that. That's how I pay my grandparents.

[George Campbell]

Use Venmo because I can use Zell.

[Caller]

Use Venmo.

[George Campbell]

Think about it. If this was a casino, you'd be like, well, I should probably make it really difficult for me to go into the casino again.

[Ken Coleman]

What kind of stuff are you buying?

[Caller]

Really? It's anything. I mean, it used to be. It used to be tools through Snap on and all the other tool brands. But I've gotten myself away from that and just turned into what are you buying?

[Ken Coleman]

Give me.

[George Campbell]

Cool.

[Ken Coleman]

Give me a quick list. There's a reason I'm asking this.

[Caller]

Yeah. Clothes, video games.

[Ken Coleman]

I'd sell it.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's.

[Ken Coleman]

I think you need a behavior. George is locking in on something. He inspired me to ask that question. You've got to make some changes. That's why I said change the bank, delete the apps. You've got to make some changes to try to put up some hurdles because you're just so quickly savvying your wounds by spending. So I was hoping you had some tools. I was thinking a guy in your line of work had some really expensive tools that we could sell. And Even if it's 80% of what you bought it for, that's real cash to create some initial momentum. And actually I think it's ritual. I'm a big fan of rituals at times when the rituals are tied to change in emotion. And I think you need to go sell some stuff. Even it's closed, even you got to go take it to a secondhand store and get 50% of what it was or whatever that is. I have no idea.

[George Campbell]

But there's like Poshmark and all kinds of apps you can use to sell stuff. So I would only download an app if it's going to make you money, not cost you money. That's your new filter and value.

[Ken Coleman]

That's good. That's good.

[George Campbell]

And then I'm confused, Chase, because I know we got a lot of great auto body shops around here. I can't get a car in there. They're like, hey, we got a two week backlog. And so I don't buy that work is so slow that nobody's bringing their car in. I don't know what that says about the shop you're working for, but I would find one that stays busy.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And that, that has been the problem too. I actually made that decision a few months ago. The. The last shop I was at was slowing down because of poor management and whatnot. So I Moved to.

[George Campbell]

The reason? That's why shops slow down. Not because cars stop breaking down randomly during spring break.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, good point.

[George Campbell]

So there's problem number one. What are you actually making per month? On average?

[Caller]

On average? About. Like I said, it's so hard to know on it. On a good month, I'm making 6,000. On a bad month, I'm making 25 to 3.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And are you living at home?

[Caller]

No, I have my own place.

[George Campbell]

Okay. What's Your rent cost?

[Caller]

$750 a month. Okay.

[George Campbell]

That's reasonable for your income. So that's not the issue. So. So here's what we need to do on the good months. You need to go, that is not my money to spend. That is Chase Bank's money. That is the Buy now, pay later company's money, because it's really not yours. You signed something that said, I will pay you this money back when I have it. Right.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So now it's an integrity issue. So just make it an integrity issue and then remove all of the reasons you could to go spend that money. And that means deleting the apps, adding the friction, cutting up the credit cards. Have you actually closed these credit cards and closed these buy now, pay later account?

[Caller]

I have not.

[George Campbell]

That's your next homework assignment. You know how I've stayed out of debt? I was 40 grand in debt when I was 23 years old, Chase. And when I got out, you know how I stayed out? I didn't give myself the option to go back in. I didn't have a way. I froze my credit with all three credit bureaus because I know I'm able and willing to do stupid stuff with money. So that's the kind of value line in the sand you need to draw for yourself. Because the good news is you are so young that you have so much time to make up for the stupid tax. One day you'll look back and go, that was cute. Remember when I was in 30 grand of debt? Never again. Man, I learned my lesson.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And I'm going to tell you something. Your way out of this, Chase, is getting to a better shop or picking up a second job where there's a good run shop and they need quality hands. I just think you have way more money you're leaving on the table than you realize.

[George Campbell]

You could go detail cars in people's driveways and make 500 bucks in a weekend. Okay, true or false?

[Caller]

True, definitely.

[Ken Coleman]

And Chase, we're trying to encourage you. You are not that much in debt. I mean, the kind of calls we Get. I'm telling you, 30 grand for somebody like you, who has ability, who has time. And I think you got the gumption now again. That's why I applauded you right at the start of the call. You want to change, don't you?

[Caller]

I really do.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. You know what's on the other side of this is you deciding to do what George said, but then actually go work yourself silly. And when you have a day instead of retail therapy, you go work somewhere. You got me?

[Caller]

I. I got you. And one, one, one more question.

[Ken Coleman]

We don't have a time for another question. I apologize. But you got enough to work on.

[George Campbell]

You got enough answers here. Go back and watch this call. That's your homework assignment. And don't do it because Ken and George said to do it because Chase's future is worth it. That's the new value you have for every single time you go to spend money.

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[George Campbell]

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Frank in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Frank, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. This question is about my 10 year old daughter. My household income is about double that of my ex wife's. And lately my daughter has been saying to me things like that's so expensive. Or she wants to pay for things that are my responsibility, like clothes and shoes for money she's gotten either for birthdays or holidays or for chores. What Can I do on my end to help her with what I think is just a worry about money that maybe she's getting from my. My ex wife's situation?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's really interesting. Do you, do you talk about money around her when you were married even just a few years ago? She's 10, so she's been picking up stuff, you know, probably even at 6 and 7 begin to pick up anxiety around money. And I wonder if before you got divorced, was that the situation where she would have overheard arguments about money, or do you think it's all from your ex wife talking about money in a fearful way, always telling her we don't have enough, we don't have enough. What do you think is driving the fear?

[Caller]

Well, we've been divorced since she was around five.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I think maybe just that situation.

[Ken Coleman]

So really it's your ex wife you think is scarcity mindset based on reality and talking about it a lot around her? Maybe I'd ask, you know what I would do if I were you. And again, I'm a dad, if I was in your situation, I'd sit down with her and go, hey, honey, you know that dad can buy that for you. I have more than enough money to be able to do these things for you. But you're worried about it. Can we talk about that? What causes you to worry about it? Just real. Don't put her on defense, but just real. You know, how to connect to her. I would get her to talk to you about it and, and you, what you want is her to tell you her fears and worries, but more importantly, you want to know why she's worried and what's causing it and that you need to address.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Ken Coleman]

And then when you buy something for her, go, hey, honey, I want to reassure you I've got plenty of money. Dad's very smart. Use phrases that one day she'll understand, like I budget. You know what I mean? Just talk to her like she's an adult and she'll pick up a lot of it. But what she's looking for is reassurance. And so when you go to buy her something, she's projecting onto you what I guess she's picking up from her mom. George, am I offline?

[George Campbell]

No, you're spot on. It reminds me, Rachel Cruz wrote a book, know Yourself, Know youw Money. And she walks through these different money classrooms we grow up in. And this is the anxious classroom, like we're getting at here. And she's, she's worried about. There is a scarcity mindset and the best thing you can do is to reframe this whole thing as, hey, what I'm doing for you is a gift, which means you need to do nothing in return. This is an act of generosity. This is not a sacrifice. You're not putting me out. You're not a burden. This is something I want to do as your father who loves you. And I think that's the best thing you can do for her, is realize this isn't your money. You might have financial worries one day. Today's not that day, sweetheart. Daddy's got you. And she's so young that she can't fully even understand what's going on. And so these conversations will continue, and they'll get a little more intense as she gets more age appropriate. And then teach her to give, too. I think that it's one of the most freeing things you can do for someone who's anxious with money is to show them that if they give it, it will actually lower their anxiety and they're not gonna run out of money all of a sudden. Okay, I think that's it. Money comes from work. Dad works hard. Dad stays out of debt. Dad put money in savings, and now he has the ability to be generous with other people, especially those that he loves. And you are one of those people.

[Caller]

People.

[Ken Coleman]

And, Frank, you're a good dad, you know?

[Caller]

So thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Keep taking care of your money. Are you solid financially?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

No debt?

[Caller]

Finishing up a tiny bit.

[Ken Coleman]

What's that?

[Caller]

Finishing up, finishing up a tiny bit.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. So, hey, that's the other thing. Get out of debt, have a strong emergency fund. You know what I mean? And all those things going to give you more peace. And here's what. The reason I asked that, Frank, is not to put you on the spot. It's to show. It's to tell you that everything we just said will help. But what will help even more is if she feels zero tension coming off of you around money. And if you're debt free with a fat emergency fund and great retirement plan, you're gonna put out an ease that she will pick up on.

[George Campbell]

More is caught than taught, as we say.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

That's the last piece of it. All right?

[George Campbell]

And I don't know on both sides because there's a divorce in the mix. Does it feel like you're trying to buy her love? And I know you're not doing that, but does it come across that way when mom feels small now because dad bought her all this stuff? Is that part of it?

[Caller]

I don't no. No, I don't think so.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, take her out on a date, do what we told you to do, and then explain to her, hey, I'm in good shape. This is what I'm doing. And begin to just talk about what you're doing. I'm going to be debt free in four months. And then this. And it. Like, just talk to her. And. And. And she's gonna feel that. And. And more importantly, learn what you're doing. And we hope she learns yours, because. And we're not trying to create a contrast here, but if she experiences you very differently on money than she does her mother, hopefully she's gonna go, dad's modeling the way, and you are the model, and that's what she goes after. So thanks for the call, Frank. Anthony's up in Cincinnati. Anthony, how can we help you? You thank today.

[Caller]

Thank you all for taking my call. A little bit of background. I turned 52 next week. I worked for Dave's absolute favorite employer, the IRS, since 2008. And it my plan and my wife were to retire in five years from the irs, that would give me the full medical, dental, all that good stuff. This year, I was moved out of it with a whole bunch of other folks to reviewing business tax returns. I hate this job.

[George Campbell]

You didn't sign up for that.

[Caller]

Did you know I signed up for it, and a whole bunch of us just got moved over.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

But what I'm trying to get at is I'm looking at changing careers and studying for my SIE exam and moving to, like, a Charles Schwab type place. And the point of my call is I'm just looking for permission to make that change.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, it's not something that I can give, but I will tell you that you absolutely should change because just go down the rabbit hole tonight on what stress in a job that you can't stand. And it's a different kind of stress. It's a. I have no purpose in this. I can't stand it. Just go do the research on what it does to your body, what it does to your mind, and that will be, I think, the last domino that needs to fall. I don't even think you need it, but I would go do it. Absolutely believe you should transition to something else. You're still a young guy. You still have a lot of life left and a lot you can give and quite frankly, a whole lot more money you can make. So I absolutely would get out of there as soon as I could. I would not stay around for health Benefits and pensions.

[George Campbell]

Your health is going to decline in the next five years.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm not going to trade five years of misery for really good eye care, dental care and all those things. Things when you can afford that in a better gig.

[Caller]

The only additional piece of information, because my wife is pushing in the same direction you all are, is I'm probably going to take about 100k pay cut per year to make this transition.

[George Campbell]

Well, what are you making now?

[Caller]

170k.

[George Campbell]

And you're going to go down to 70? You think if you move into the

[Caller]

financial sector, I will take an entry level position just to get my foot in the door and work up from there. But yeah, I'll.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's never, it's never the ideal situation. My question is, if that happened today, could you live off of 70?

[Caller]

Absolutely. We've been listening to Dave and following him for 20 years. So we've got, we're totally debt free, including the house. We've got the emergency fund and all that good stuff.

[George Campbell]

How much do you have in the nest Survive?

[Caller]

The nest egg is 750k in the tsp and 55 cash liquid.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say yes. And I'm okay with you taking the cut if you take your IT experience and you do some freelancing for maybe six to 12 months until you get, get your sea legs, if possible. I know that's with an asterisk, but maybe, maybe we could get $50,000 in some freelance work with your technology skills.

[George Campbell]

And maybe you go get a great IT job in the meantime and work on your licensing and then you switch over.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

It's a nice bridge too.

[Ken Coleman]

I like the bridge here, Anthony. That's what we're telling you.

[George Campbell]

It makes it less. That's a cliff I got to jump.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? If you've fallen behind on your private student loans and have stopped making payments, it can feel like every door is closed. But why Refi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate refinancing options that fit their budget. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[George Campbell]

Today's question comes from Ryan in Montana. I've been following the baby steps for two years and it feels incredible to no longer be living paycheck to paycheck. I no longer use credit cards and want to close them as part of embracing a cash only lifestyle. What is the wisest way to approach this? Do I close them all at once or is there a smarter, more gradual approach I should take? If I close them all at once, are there any potential risks I should be aware of? Great question from Ryan. Very astute. Yes, I rarely use that word, but

[Ken Coleman]

this feels like I was getting ready to compliment you on good usage there.

[George Campbell]

Sometimes the words just come to me. Kevin.

[Ken Coleman]

It does.

[George Campbell]

So at the heart of the question is he wants to follow the plan. He's worried about essentially his credit score. That's really what's at risk here of the credit score going down as you close all these cards because your credit score is partially based on how many accounts you've had open, how long they've been open. And so when you close these, you hurt the credit score gods. They're very upset that you've abandoned them and they will punish you with a lower score temporarily. Now it's not going to tank your credit. You're not going to have an issue like renting an apartment, but in the meantime, for a couple of months it might dip a little bit. And then what will happen if you truly close all open accounts that have to do with debt, you will have no credit score after about 6 to 12 months if you do it right. That's what happened to me. It's what's happened to several people out there, millions now, that have followed this plan, that are credit invisible, as we call them. So your credit score becomes indeterminable and then you Just live your life. And renting a car. Every rental car company has a debit card policy when it comes to renting an apartment. They'll go, hey, are you a criminal? Nope. Great. You'll have to pay a little bit more in the deposit, but sure, you can rent from us. And even with a mortgage. I went through a process called manual underwriting to get a mortgage without a credit score. And it was all kind of a nothing burger, Ken. They kind of made it out to seem like you cannot live without a credit score. You can't live without a credit card. And I realized very quickly it was a farce because they've never done it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, absolutely.

[George Campbell]

So there you go. Just go for it. I don't think you're going to regret it on the other side. And if you got to do it all in, that means closing all accounts that have to do with debt in order to actually have no credit score.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, absolutely. Good advice. Let's go to Jim next in Dallas, Texas. Jim, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, how are y'? All?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. What's going on?

[Caller]

Hey. So I'm switching employers in two weeks. I got a better paying job, but I, A year ago, unfortunately, I took, took out a 401k loan. I've been paying on it, but I owe about $15,675 left on it. And I'm not sure what I should do about that because I don't have that money and it's going to become, it's going to default, basically, if I don't pay it off within like 30 days.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Did you get the actual details in the fine print? Is it 30 days from today or when you, you already put in your two weeks?

[Caller]

Weeks, yeah, it's from date of separation. So when I, when I leave the company 30 days later.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what day is that?

[Caller]

I think it's like May 22nd.

[George Campbell]

May 22nd. So we've got a little over a month. How much can you save up in a given month? Is there a bonus from the employer? Is there anything like that?

[Caller]

No, no bonus. I'm putting about 6,000 away for the debt snowball right now. We're on baby step. I can, you know, I can ramp that up a little bit, but not enough to cover the gap.

[George Campbell]

Do you have anything you could sell or is there anything you could do as a side hustle?

[Caller]

Well, we've sold everything but the kids already, but

[George Campbell]

in your marriage.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Spouses working outside the home as well?

[Caller]

Yes, indeed.

[George Campbell]

What is the, what's what income is going to roll through your fingers in the next 30 days?

[Caller]

We're doing about 12,000 household income right now. I think it should go up about $13,500 with the new roll.

[George Campbell]

And how much do you need to survive and pay the bills and minimum on debts?

[Caller]

About 4,500.

[George Campbell]

So that's eight grand you could pay.

[Caller]

Yep, that sounds right.

[George Campbell]

Right. And that's if that's just. If we just use that income and do nothing else, we don't find extra stuff to sell stuff to flip, do side hustles, get the whole family involved here. So the best option is obviously to pay the balance back within the window. I would find out Generally it's a 90 day window, so I'm sur one is a 30. I would see if there's any leniency with that. If you go, hey, can you give me 60 days? Okay, that's your best bet because in 60 days you've got it covered.

[Caller]

Yeah. Somebody had mentioned the idea of a QPLO and paying it back by the next tax year, but I've never heard of that. And I'm.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I'm not familiar with the old qplo. I'd have to look into that. But the worst thing you can do is to do nothing and let it default because you will lose 30 to 40% of that loan balance to the IRS. So that will just absolutely destroy your wealth. So I would just act like this is my one goal in life, is to pay this back. I make this like a Liam Neeson movie.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow, you're on fire.

[George Campbell]

I want that kind of intensity from Jim.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[Caller]

Yeah, you can do it from my 401k exactly.

[George Campbell]

You got 40 days to recover, to recover this money and get the IRS and this employer off your back.

[Ken Coleman]

Thanks, Jim. Appreciate the call. Let's go to Paige in Kansas City. Paige, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. So me and my fiance just bought a house last year and we both have car payments and his student debt was handed off to a collection agency. So we have a couple different loans that we're trying to pay off. And I know in the baby steps it says that, like, pay off your smallest loan first. But our smallest loan doesn't have an interest rate. So we're trying to figure out what the best route of action is to, like, what loan to pay off first.

[Ken Coleman]

Why don't you lay those out? Lay those out for us. Smallest to largest.

[Caller]

So we live in a. Oh, you said smallest. So our smallest is the student loan. It's $7,034.59, $162 a month with 0% interest. My fiance's car is $9,645 left on the loan. It's a $400 a month payment and it's at a 17% interest rate. That's the one that I would like to pay off. And then my car is 28,000 left with a $600 a month payment and a 4.66% interest income interest. And our house is 50,000 left with 630 around a month. We pay bi weekly, so Sometimes we pay three times a month. It's at a 10.75% interest.

[George Campbell]

What do you mean by house?

[Caller]

So we live in a trailer house, but we also have lot rent because we rent the land that our house sits on, but we own our actual house.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Because this, this trailer is going down in value. So it's more like a vehicle. It's not going to appreciate like a traditional home. So here's the truth. Interest rates are not your problem. It's financial behavior that's the problem. And so that's why the debt snowball works. Because if we were trying to attack interest rates and doing math here, we wouldn't have gone into all this debt. So how much do you actually make per year?

[Caller]

My fiance? It's a little bit hard to determine right now because I just switched jobs. I'm a nail tech now, so I'm making 18 an hour flat roll rate with 40 hours guaranteed a week.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you're making about 38 grand and you have a $28,000 car.

[Caller]

But I also make a lot in tips. I average between between 10 to 20 per client and I have about five to seven clients a day.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you're making closer to 50 or 60. Is that what you're telling me?

[Caller]

Yeah. Around.

[George Campbell]

This car is still too much of your world. If you sold this car, it would really alleviate things. And the second thing is, are you guys combining finances? Finances? Are you just paying off your debts and he's paying off his. Are you guys all pooling money together?

[Caller]

So we're, we're trying to. We haven't done it yet, but we need to combine our bank accounts. And we're doing 50, 50 in my car. I pay. And his car and his student debt, he pays.

[George Campbell]

This is a real problem. You guys shouldn't be combining finances until you're married because you're creating a real mess. Okay, what if something happened? He leaves and you just paid off his car debt while you still have a bunch of.

[Caller]

Well, I'm not. I'm not paying on his car and he's not paying.

[George Campbell]

You guys need to focus on your own debts right now until you're married and then combine finances and it will get a whole lot easier and less messier at that point. But you got to start owning up and stop looking at interest rates and start looking in the mirror.

[Caller]

Sam,

[Ken Coleman]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. You know that. And with all the clickbait stuff out there and the conflicting data, it's hard to know what's really happening. We're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices went up a little to $403,000 last month. Mortgage rates also dipped to 5.4, 5.43%. Excuse me. Down from 6.16 we saw last February. And that gave buyers some breathing room. But you know, this rates can unpredictable. So if you want to learn more about housing market trends and get some free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com market. That's ramseysolutions.com market. Or you can click the link in the show notes. Let's stay right here in Nashville where Katherine joins us. Katherine, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. So about a year ago, my husband and I decided to put some money, well, to put some debt into Freedom Debt Relief, which is a, I'm sure you know, a debt consolidation. I know that you guys do not.

[George Campbell]

Recommend.

[Caller]

Recommend. Thank you. I'm a little bit nervous. Take your time that you guys don't recommend those. But it was an emotional thing. My husband had surgery and the debt was just racking up and Freedom Debt Relief, the salesperson being the salesperson he is. Like I actually said, you know, you know, I know this isn't Dave Ramsey recommended. And he was like, oh, no, Dave Ramsey actually does recommend us. And I was like, I didn't say anything, but I knew that he didn't. But my question is, you should have

[George Campbell]

said, oh, he does. I'd love to see that clip or that article where he recommends that.

[Caller]

Oh, that would have been a good line.

[George Campbell]

Well, there won't be a next time, so I can't say use it next time, but okay, so you signed up?

[Caller]

Yes, we did, about a year ago. And what my question is, we're doing a much better financial position now. My husband got a new job and we're just in a better financial position. And I want to start doing debt snowball. And first get the thousand dollars and you know, all the baby steps. But I'm wondering, should I take out what hasn't been paid off already in the Freedom Debt Relief?

Yes, yes.

[George Campbell]

Get out of the process. Because you can do what they're doing on your own without the fees and the hassle and without taking your credit, which they've already done that parts.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

We can't undo that. Yeah. But all they're doing is negotiating with your creditors after you default and coming up with a lump sum. You do that yourself?

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

If you couldn't pay, you just wouldn't pay. And then goes to collections and then you say, hey, would you take four grand for my ten grand debt lump sum if it's paid market. Paid in full in writing.

[Caller]

Great.

[George Campbell]

Done.

[Caller]

Okay. And should I. Because they have. Because the percentage that they were taking the Freedom Debt Relief, they basically. I was saving like I did the math. I was basically saving like $100 or $200, which is not great. The ones that they are currently paying though, on. Should I leave those in there? Because there are two that have. That they are currently paying on that that they negotiated.

[George Campbell]

How many more payments are there?

[Caller]

One is, it's a total of 36 and I think I've paid four to six. I'd have to look on the app. And the other one, it has like 24 and I think I've paid like four or five.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I would read the contract to see what you can and can't do and read the cancellation clause to figure out what you have to do to get get out. But I would just tell them, hey, I want to get completely out of this. And you might need to do a written notice. It's like a Planet Fitness, they get you in real easy. But to get out, it's an act of Congress. So yeah, I would definitely get out because you can do this on your own. It's going to end up being cheaper for you in the long run, even if they ding you with some fees on the way out. But these programs, they over promise. They underd deliver while ruining your financial life. But when you're scared and overwhelmed. Overwhelmed. Their Instagram ad magically pops up to save you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So I'm sorry you fell for it, but I'm glad you're getting out.

[Caller]

Oh yeah, no, I'm definitely getting out. And thank you for taking my call. I hope nobody else falls for them.

[Ken Coleman]

There's the warning from Catherine. We love that.

[George Campbell]

And it's a good reminder, Ken, just to talk about what These companies do. So the way these companies work these debt, if you see debt relief, debt settlement, anything that promises like debt freedom, you actually doing the work. Here's what they do. They tell you hey, stop paying all of your creditors. Instead send us those payments. What ends up happening is you default on the debts, it tanks your credit score and then they try to negotiate a lump sum settlement. Hopefully they can't guarantee that sometimes it doesn't happen. And the truth is you can do all that yourself without all their crazy fees and sales tactics. And it's what you should do. And try to stay current on your payments if you can because tanking your credit is not going to help you at all financially.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I agree. Avoid Rachel is up next in Reading California. Rachel, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi there, can you hear me ok?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, loud and clear.

[Caller]

Okay, good. My husband and I live up in rural California, Northern California and he has a blue collar job and we have four kids, eight and under and we're just coming up on our 10 year anniversary. We are on baby step four. Well I guess five. We haven't saved for our kids college yet but we're thinking about it and we're just thinking about doing an anniversary trip and I wanted your guys feedback on. I guess I'm feeling kind of guilty. I'm a stay at home mom so I don't make a lot. I've been door dashing a little bit but I kind of wanted to see what you guys thought about anniversary trip. Like I feel guilty for what I'm thinking about saving.

[George Campbell]

What are you thinking about spending?

[Caller]

Sorry?

[George Campbell]

What's the number? How much do you want to spend on this trip?

[Caller]

We were thinking around 5 to 6,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. How long is this trip? Is it like a week or two?

[Caller]

Yeah, we were thinking maybe 10 days to two weeks.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I can tell you right now 10 days to two weeks at 5 to 6000 is not a, you know, that's a deal. That's, that's you're, you're, you're not going luxury, you know, you're, you're being smart about it. You're making the most of that money. Am I right?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. We'd be definitely staying at really cheap places and doing.

[George Campbell]

You don't need to stay at a Motel 6. Let's make this a trip to remember and not in the wrong ways.

[Ken Coleman]

Well yeah, let's get to that next. But let's at least take off the guilt. There's no guilt for you guys saving up 5 to $6,000 to celebrate your 10th anniversary anniversary. That's fantastic.

[George Campbell]

And there's no guilt in you being a stay at home mom and feeling like. Well, because I don't contribute as much, I feel like I don't. You deserve it as much as anybody.

[Ken Coleman]

How long have you already saved up that money or are you in the process of it?

[Caller]

We just. This is just a plan we've had in the last couple weeks. So we're just thinking about saving and trying to put a.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that going to stress you guys financially? In other words, where are you going to have to be really, really tight to be able to save. Save that?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't have a problem with that either.

[George Campbell]

What does your husband make?

[Caller]

He makes about 4,500amonth. And with my doordash I've been making around 1,000amonth.

[George Campbell]

Great. So when do you want to book the trip? When do you actually have to pay for it?

[Caller]

Fall sometime.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so are you willing to continue the door dash and use part of his income to save up this five grand over the next five, five months?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean you got the number if it's just your door dash money every month, sometime in the fall, you got some flexibility. You can cash flow this anniversary trip just from your work, your. Your part time work. You shouldn't feel guilty. You should feel proud of yourself for that.

[George Campbell]

Are you setting this money aside in a separate savings account?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's. That would be the plan yet.

[George Campbell]

Good, that helps to earmarket because if you just have it in checking or you have it in your emergency fund, it feels like you're doing something bad when you that out to use it for a vacation. So Instead earmark it 10 year anniversary vacation. And then when you put the money in, you know exactly what it's for. And then when it comes time to book the trip or when you have the money, pull the trigger.

[Ken Coleman]

I wonder. Yeah, I wonder if you've got 1,000 to $1,500 worth of stuff around the house you could sell too.

[Caller]

That's true.

[George Campbell]

I like that plan.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that plan.

[Caller]

You know why?

[Ken Coleman]

We just add a little extra money to this anniversary trip and we, we didn't have to work as hard. We got rid of some crap we didn't need anyway.

[George Campbell]

And then do your research. Splurge where it's worth it. Cut back where you're like, we don't care about this over here. And you can work with a $5,000 budget easily.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the fair winds Credit union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside, and we're going to go to Minneapolis where Ella is. Ella, how can we help you?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thank you so much for taking my call. This is awesome. Anyway, I have a question. So I'm following the baby steps. Unfortunately, I'm not able to work right now. I'm on a medical leave. I have to have surgery this next Wednesday, and I need to come up with $4,000 before I have my surgery. And if I was able to work, I could do it, but right now I'm just kind of at a loss. I've been marking things up. I'm going to have a garage sale and try to sell everything that I possibly can, but before Wednesday, I'm kind of. Kind of stuck.

[George Campbell]

Is it due up front?

[Caller]

Yeah, they said that it's to meet my deductible, my out of pocket deductible. And then. And so I've been on the phone and trying to work with them to see if, you know, I can get on a payment plan or anything. And they're like, well, that would be, like, the last option. I'm like, well, that's. That might be your only option because I don't have it.

[George Campbell]

Is this at a hospital?

[Caller]

Yes, it is.

[Ken Coleman]

Your doctor aware of this?

[Caller]

Yes, he is.

[Ken Coleman]

And what did he say about going forward on this or rescheduling or. How serious is a reschedule? What's. What's going on? Give us the full picture.

[Caller]

Okay. So unfortunately, this is my fourth surgery in three years. But, hey, I'm a trooper. It's okay. Like, I get through it and so sorry. I go to work. It's okay. Thank you. I appreciate it, though. And anyway, sorry. I talked to my doctor about it, and he told me. He was like, if anything, he's like, we're going to do this surgery. You need to have it, right? And he's like, just tell him you made a payment arrangement. We're still going through it. And then they can figure it out. And I'm like, okay, good.

[Ken Coleman]

I think that's what you have to pull. That's our sleep.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

At night answer. And then you do everything you can.

[George Campbell]

Have you called the hospital billing department?

[Caller]

I have. Oh, my gosh. We're like best friends right now.

[George Campbell]

Oh, good. What do they say about financial assistance, charity care, that kind of stuff?

[Caller]

I have submitted all of my pay stubs and everything to them. They're just going to try to review it to see if I meet the qualifications, but I already make too much Money. And what's your next paycheck?

[George Campbell]

When's it coming?

[Caller]

That's. That's the thing, too. I'm. I'm not sure. Today was the. The last paycheck that I'm getting until hopefully my Minnesota paid leave comes into place. And it was a. Only like 400 bucks because I've been on leave for the past two weeks.

[George Campbell]

Was it unpaid?

[Caller]

So, yeah, so I was only able to work two. Two days this last pay period. Otherwise, like, yeah, it's really frustrating. And like I said, I do follow the baby steps. I've. And unfortunately, like, I'm in step two. But how much more debt do you have off? I have 18,000 left, and I've paid off 60.

[George Campbell]

Way to go. What's left in the 18?

[Caller]

So what's left in the 18 is some leftover surgery debt. I have two small credit cards and two small personal loans, and I. Guys, I'm telling you, I have. I've brought my budget down, and I know where all of my money goes, thanks to you guys.

[George Campbell]

Good.

[Caller]

And I had my $1,000, and, you know, I can live very simply. It's just my body hates me.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, bless your heart.

[George Campbell]

But you have $1,000 to your name.

[Caller]

Nope. Because I had to use that to pay my rent and everything. Oh. And then on top of that, I have to move because the house that I'm renting, I just found out that it's in foreclosure.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my goodness.

[Caller]

My landlord hasn't been. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So it's like a country song.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know. It is. It's really sad. I'm more of a. I'm more of a punk rocker, so I'm just like, oh, come on.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you know, there's always. I mean, what is your. You know what you need to do? You need to find one of those punk rock songs that you really love that's kind of got, like, the tough. The Tough times lyrics, but there's some bright side on it. And that becomes your sound soundtrack, you know?

[Caller]

Oh, it is social. Social distortion. Reach for the sky.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is. Social distortion. Reach for the sky. You know what? Like, I'm not being, you know, like Kumbaya here, but that's your. That's your soundtrack. You've been through a lot better days are ahead, right?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

You're gonna get through this. Don't you follow the advice of your doctor. So let's take that stress off the table and get yourself healthy. Healthy. And then get. Get back to work and keep walking the baby steps. Out. And I'm telling you, better days are ahead.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[George Campbell]

And then document everything like a mad woman. I mean, there should be an income based discount if you're on medical leave. You should qualify for a significant reduction on this thing or a full write off. And on top of that, bring proof of income loss. Say, hey, listen, I made $400. Here's what I should have made. And this is going to remain this way until I'm fully healed.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And I think if this person's your best friend, if I'm your best friend at the office, I'm going to do everything I can to go, hey, your bill suddenly disappeared.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Oh, I like that. Oh, I see what you're saying.

[Caller]

Fingers crossed.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I mean, they can pull some strings over there. A human being has to deny or

[Ken Coleman]

approve these one little. It's one little keystroke. I see what you're doing, George. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

It's not illegal. George with.

[Ken Coleman]

George with a little espionage.

[George Campbell]

This is why these people exist.

[Caller]

I love it.

[George Campbell]

And, and so just you need to utilize. You need to know this stuff better than they do. To where you go. No, I actually read the fine print and here's what it says. You need to become an expert in healthcare because there's a lot of incompetent people in healthcare.

[Caller]

Oh, I know that. I work in healthcare.

Perfect.

[George Campbell]

So become the expert on your situation. And when you are mar. When you have all of the options, all the information, you can win this thing. And we are rooting for you to get through this surgery, to heal up, to get rid of these debts, get that emergency fund. You have a bigger why than most people.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. What is the prognosis on the other side of the surgery? Do you know?

[Caller]

Not 100% sure yet. Okay, so, but do you have a

[Ken Coleman]

good sense of confidence that you're going to be able to get back to work relatively soon, or is that completely up in the air as well?

[Caller]

Oh, I told them I go, I'm going back to work on May 1st. I'm like, I don't care.

[Ken Coleman]

No stopping you.

[Caller]

I'm like, I. Oh, there isn't. Like, I work two jobs. I work two jobs. I have tons of side hustles. And I'm just like, no, like, oh,

[Ken Coleman]

Ella, listen, you know what? I love the advice George gave you

[George Campbell]

and I hope they don't charge you rent this month if they're under foreclosure. I feel like that should give you a little freebie.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the story there?

[Caller]

I feel like I'm not even gonna pay them and I'm just gonna try to save and just move and put my stuff in storage and if I have to couch surf for a little while.

[George Campbell]

Good for you.

[Caller]

Okay, good for you.

[George Campbell]

They're the ones about to get sued and going through bankruptcy, so I think they're gonna have their hands full.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, they wouldn't be worried about that. They have bigger fish to fry than you. And Ella, you inspired me just now. I want to tell you something like, I love your attitude. Given everything you're dealing with right now, you're unstoppable. I love that you said. I know I am. And you're gonna get back going and boy, are we cheering you on. We're in club Ella.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

When I talk to people on The Ramsey Show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing. Not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal. But it doesn't have to be normal for. For you. And that's why I want you to go download our everydollar budget app. Everydollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show and it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the everyday app, answer a few questions and get your plan today.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, George, have you heard about Ask Ramsey?

[George Campbell]

Heard about it?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

I use it daily.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you really?

[George Campbell]

I ask, I talk to. Because nobody wants to talk to me, Ken. So I go to Ask Ramsey and it's very conversational.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, you do.

[George Campbell]

It wants to talk nerdy like I like to talk.

[Ken Coleman]

What is Ask Ramsey? Some of you are wondering. It is the AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And we're going to break down the most asked questions from this week. We had some questions around budgeting, college funds, investing. But the most asked question, George, was around paying off the mortgage. The main question is, is should I prioritize paying off my mortgage or investing for more long term growth? So what do you think? Ask Ramsey said George.

[George Campbell]

Well, I hope it said this first. You got to be investing 15% of your gross household income into retirement. Anything beyond that is a Baby step six item. So you can throw that money at the mortgage, but it's not a. It's not a this or that. It's a yes. And yes, you should be investing. Yes, you should pay off the mortgage. You don't need to do one or the other. But you should not stop retirement investing to rush the mortgage. That's the truth. A paid for house gives you peace and margin. Once the house is paid off, then you can start investing even more than that, 15% and increase it to your heart's delight for your wealth goals. So ask Ramsey can help you determine how much extra to throw at your mortgage each month, what your payoff date would be. It'll help you with all the nerdy stuff. Do the calculations for you. So go ask any of your financial questions [e-mail] or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice. Let's go to Cassandra now in our backyard here, Nashville, Tennessee. Cassandra, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet.

[Caller]

What's going on?

Well, I have $9,000 in debt for my car, and it's very manageable and it's in my monthly budget to take care of that. But I have more than enough money to pay it off right now if I wanted to. My question is, if I get rid of that payment and it affects my credit score, I'm looking to put a down payment on the home in the future. Will someone lend me that money for a home if my credit mix isn't good, if I don't have multiple lines of credit?

[George Campbell]

Got it. What other accounts do you have open right now?

[Caller]

As far as debt, I have a secured credit card and I kind of use it as my budget for gas. I never spend more than 30%.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so the car is the only debt?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

How much do you have in savings?

[Caller]

22,500.

[George Campbell]

That's all the money to your name.

[Caller]

And I also have a retirement account that counts.

[George Campbell]

Okay, but as far as liquid money, 22, 5. And if you paid off the car loan, what does that leave you with?

[Caller]

9,000 less than that.

[George Campbell]

So, okay, we're talking like 13 grand or so is what you'll have left.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Well, the good news is you're not gonna have to worry about purchasing a home anytime soon because you're gonna have to still save up an emergency fund, then save up the down payment. So this is a far away goal, right?

[Caller]

Yes, it is.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And your credit score is not going to tank once you Pay off your car. It might go down temporarily, but it's not going to go down to where you're not going to get. Get a great rate on a mortgage.

[Caller]

Okay, thank you.

[George Campbell]

So I would not worry about that. Now. If you stop making payments or miss payments, those things will negatively affect your credit score and it'll stay like that for a much longer period of time. But just paying off a debt is not going to go away. You're going to go in from a 700 to a 650. Way to go, Cassandra. It's a good thing to pay off your debt. So trying. You're basically saying, should I stay in debt on purpose so I can qualify for more debt? At that point, yes. And so truthfully, even if you cut up your credit card, and this is something I did, my credit score eventually disappeared. I became credit. You know, my credit score was indeterminable. And then I went through a process called manual underwriting. I submitted just a few more documents. A real human being looks at the documents and says, yep, we can give them a loan. It's that it was that simple. So that's just to give you, put you at ease, that even if your credit score disappeared off the face of, of the earth, you still could qualify for a home loan. If you have a good down payment, you'll have no debt. So you'll be a very strong candidate and your income's strong. All of those are much bigger factors than just a credit score.

[Caller]

Okay. Yes, sir. Thank you.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, thanks for the question.

[Ken Coleman]

Great call. Yeah, really good. Cameron is up in Phoenix, Arizona. Cameron, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. So I'm currently a student physical therapist. About to get licensed in around late October. October. My biggest thing is I'm about $120,000 in debt by the time I get licensed. And I'm actually making 80 to $85,000 out of school. And I have 10k in my savings. And I was just curious, you know, I have my thousand dollars. Of course, that is my base foundation of savings. But what else do I just throw everything else towards this snowball method and kind of what's the way to go about things.

[George Campbell]

When is your last payment for education?

[Caller]

Oh, what was that?

[George Campbell]

When is your last payment due for education? Are you already there? No.

[Caller]

No. And so it'll technically be, I believe, September.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Of this year.

[George Campbell]

Because my goal would be to avoid going into any more debt before graduation. And so that's kind of. We're trying to just stop the bleeding at this point.

[Caller]

Point.

[George Campbell]

And so I would Hang on to that money to use it for the following semester for tuition, textbooks, etc. So limit the damage. And then once you graduate and you have your income now, let's start using the baby steps, the debt snowball methods to start attacking these student loans from smallest to largest. Are they in separate loans? I imagine, yes.

[Caller]

Yeah, all separate loans. Some federal, some subsidized and Subsidized stuff. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Awesome. Leave it that way. Don't do any kind of debt consolidation lumping it into one giant loan. It's going to be so much easier to pay it off when you can attack the little one with a vengeance. Free up that payment applied to the next one. That's the debt snowball. And I, I have good faith and confidence that you'll be able to pay off the 120k. Now making 80, it's going to take a little while, but hopefully you can get your income up, maybe work overtime and really go hard at this thing for two or three years and knock it out fast.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And that is an absolute huge reason why you don't want to add any more to this. Because coming out of this thing, this is what I can't stand. And I just. Why I don't like the student loan because program for so many people. You know, they come out and they're excited, they've got the great job and then it's just mountain they have to climb and they can. And we've seen and we've helped a lot of people do it, but it's, it's just.

[George Campbell]

Well, the scary part is, Ken, the financial aid. When I walked in the financial aid office and you get the, the package from fafsa, you're like, wow, what a gift. They're giving me four federally subsidized loans. I thought that's basically free money and it's basically just a slight better way of getting punched in the face. There we go.

[Ken Coleman]

It's true. It'll.

[George Campbell]

It'll heal a little faster.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's go to Jacob real quick here in Nashville. Jacob, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, I'm trying to determine, make sure I'm doing all the right things to be able to retire as early as 50, very comfortably.

[George Campbell]

How old are you now?

[Caller]

I'm, I'm 29 right now.

[George Campbell]

Okay. We got a little ways to go.

[Ken Coleman]

How much you got saved for retirement?

[Caller]

So I was fortunate enough that my, my father, my grandparents, my great grandparents put together a uniform transfer to minor account when I was very young. I'm not entirely sure what the beginning balance Was, I want to say it was close to $50,000.

[Ken Coleman]

What is it now?

[Caller]

I, it is now up to $490,000. Whoa. About, about 75,000 of that is my IRA in a Vanguard account.

[George Campbell]

So 490 total is your sort of nest egg you've built so far.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, that's just associated with Vanguard. So I also have about 38,000 in a 401k, about 12,000 in a 403.

[George Campbell]

So what's the total nest egg? We got 550. We're just crushed for time. So I'm trying to get, get right to it.

[Caller]

Yeah, sure.

[George Campbell]

550. How much will you contribute monthly going forward for the next 21 years?

[Caller]

Sure.

So my only contributions is maxing out the Roth or maxing out the IRA.

[George Campbell]

So about 600 something bucks a month. Well, I'll tell you this, at 50, you'll likely have about $5 million. Now that's without accounting for inflation and buying power. But 5 million, you tell me. Can you live off 5 million at 50 for the rest of your life? I think so. I think you'll be work optional. And my guess is you actually go do something that really matters to you.

[Ken Coleman]

If he has George Camel's budget, he'll be living like a king.

[George Campbell]

Living large.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[George Campbell]

I like playing defense, I'm telling you, especially with your wealth.

[Ken Coleman]

I get it. Chris is up in Los Angeles, California. Chris, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey guys. Thank you guys so much for taking my call. So I Just an honor.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we're honored to talk to you. What's going on?

[Caller]

Hey, so real quick, I'm 28 years old and I'm currently on Baby Step 2. I have $16,000 in credit card debt left. And I just got an opportunity from my parents to buy one of their properties that they had for about 20 years now with two tenants. With two tenants that are in right now. And the house is valued at about 700,000, but they're going to be selling it to me for. For 350,000 for what they bought it for years ago. I just, I'm. I'm like, not too sure what I should do. I don't know if I should purchase the house or just keep going, trying to clear my debt or. I'm kind of lost, to be honest with you.

[George Campbell]

Do you want the fun answer or the real answer?

[Caller]

The real answer, to be honest.

[George Campbell]

Okay. The real answer is you have no business taking on that mortgage right now and being an investment property guru. Yeah, I mean, for a lot of reasons, I don't. Whenever I hear the word, I have an opportunity, and it involves going into a bunch of debt when you already have a bunch of debt. It tells me it's not an opportunity. It's actually a burden disguised as an opportunity.

[Caller]

Got you.

[George Campbell]

So that's my fear is you, you take on this, it's such a good deal. Oh, my gosh. I mean, why not just inherit it from them later on down the road?

[Caller]

Exactly. Yeah. That's what I kind of figured.

[George Campbell]

Why are they trying to get out if this is such a great opportunity?

[Caller]

Yeah. And you're right. You're right, George. I'm not too sure why, but it makes sense. It makes sense.

[Ken Coleman]

And by the way, and George is right, the fight financial, it's a no go. But you know what else is on the other side of this too, besides being a bad financial decision. You're going to end up resenting them. Because once you start feeling the stress of all this, you're going to go, they talked me into this and now it's going to affect your relationship with your parents. So this is a no go, financially and relationally.

[Caller]

Absolutely. No, definitely. I really appreciate it. I've heard it. I've heard it all. I mean, it's just people have already been telling me, I don't know, if you don't take it on, it's going to be a stupid decision, but.

[George Campbell]

Well, the question, you got to reframe it. The question is not, is this a good deal? The question Is can I actually handle this right now without it crushing me?

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And a good deal at the wrong time is a bad deal.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And so I would just say, you know what, I would have loved to, but I've got some financial goals right now. I'm not in a place to be buying investment property.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

But I love you. Good luck with the sale.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, thank you, Chris. Your instincts are right. Thanks for the call. Bridget is up next in Anchorage, Alaska. Bridget, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. So my husband and I are in baby step four, but we're kind of in a unique situation. So I have a normal 9 to 5 corporate job and my husband owns his own fishing business that's seasonal. We're to the point that we can invest 15% of our income while I'm working. But we're also about to have our second child. And so I'm hoping I can quit my job and be a stay at home mom. But if we did that, we wouldn't be able to afford to invest 15% of our income. So what should we do? Like should I continue working? Because with his schedule he's gone all summer for five to six months of the year. So childcare gets really complicated and then he's our child care the winter. So I'm. We're kind of at a loss as

[George Campbell]

to how much do you make?

[Caller]

So I make about 75.

[George Campbell]

And what is he making from this business per year on average?

[Caller]

So it varies. He's about five years into it and it has slowly grown. So I think his highest year was he made over a hundred thousand dollars just off of his business. And then this last year it was closer to like 45, 50. So he has some other income, some other like side jobs and things that he does, but those are, it's also seasonal.

[George Campbell]

Well, the math of the situation is you can't afford to stay home if it means you can't build wealth for the future. And we have variable income in the business which adds a whole nother layer of stress to your family. So I want Ken to speak into how he can turn this thing from a variable part time deal into more stable full time income.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I mean, well, I wish I had him on the phone. How well do you know about his business?

[Caller]

Oh, I know lots.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well what do you think is the opportunity? Do you think that, how would you describe at what stage is it infant stage? Are we toddler stage? Are we teenage? Like just is it.

[Caller]

The issue is it's, it's seasonal. So he's a hunting and Fishing guide.

[George Campbell]

Right.

[Caller]

So there's only that certain season that he can be doing that, especially in Alaska. And so he's kind of limited time wise. So he can sort like if he gets more guides and things like that, he could potentially be selling more trips which he's working on. And so like this year he's going to be making a lot more, which is great. And like we already have for our emergency fund. We did a full year because of his variable income. We wanted to make sure that we have enough set aside that we would be very comfortable. So like, I guess potentially he could work in more in the winter time and just kind of take on some other job.

[Ken Coleman]

Has to.

[George Campbell]

But I'm thinking what businesses thrive in Alaska in the wintertime that are adjacent to what he's doing now?

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

That would be my homework.

[Ken Coleman]

That would be ideal. But the reason I asked that is it infancy stage, is that he's the only guy right now. The business is all completely on his shoulders. He's the only guide. Correct.

[Caller]

So he has a couple others. It just depends on how big the trips are. But he doesn't have anybody else that's full time with him. So he hires a few different contractors for the summer.

[Ken Coleman]

That's fine because it's seasonal. So that's what I was getting at because that's the only way to expand in a seasonal business. Right. Is he's got to reproduce himself. And so I'm guessing he's. He's close to teenage age. Right. He's not, he's not an infant. He's already moved on to hiring other people. So that's good.

[Caller]

Good.

[Ken Coleman]

So. So that lets me know where our, where our opportunity for growth is. And it's more trips, more guides. So he's got to work on that. And that takes a little, it takes a little bit of time to grow that. So I think what's enormous is like what George said is what's something he can do that's in that space. And I'm using the word space very generally here, but it's in that whole hunting, fishing, recreational. Yeah, well, just hunting and fishing and all that. That's if he's in that space and he can make good money and it kind of just dovetails in some way creates relationships in some way or they're willing to go. We know we got you from this time. This time. And then when we get to the summertime, you're often doing your thing. You just got to increase your income. He just cannot afford to just Be seasonal right now. You guys can't. You need more money.

[George Campbell]

So it's not a no. I would just make it a. It's a not now. And if we can prove that for two years in a row this business has profited him. He took home over $100,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Boom.

[George Campbell]

He's now replaced a household income in a bad year.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

And that tells me we're going to be just fine. If you never work again, he can sustain this thing. So that's where I just want some proof because 45. If it's another 45 year and you stay home, that's going to be tight.

[Caller]

Yeah, for sure.

[Ken Coleman]

One other thought on this bridge is to take back to your hubs on this. I think he's got to treat the seasonal business like a of bunch bonus, you know.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

In the corporate world, you know corporations, they pay bonuses, right? Kind of like a year end bonus. And I think he's got to treat that seasonal job as that's my bonus. We're living off of what, you know, I'm doing in this other role. And then that's our big lump sum of money. And I think if we can begin to think that way, that's going to pay off for you guys and then that's going to get you in a position where eventually, you know, you can do that. So just a little thought there, but I do think it's important to frame that it that way, you know?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's where you get ahead big time. You know what I mean? So we're living off of his regular job, the seasonal gig, until it's a full time. It can fully fund what it needs to. It is our big bonus job. So thanks for the call. That's really fun. You know, you and I should go on a. On a hunting fishing trip in Alaska.

[George Campbell]

You think I'd make it?

[Ken Coleman]

I think you could make it.

[George Campbell]

I don't know that my wife would allow me to. I don't know that she'd think I'd come back alive.

[Ken Coleman]

I think our wives would let us and I think it would be just rich and funny just for social media alone to see you and I attempting to go on some Alaska type trail.

[George Campbell]

If you, if you just gave me the reel ready to go, I could probably do it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Then help me reel the fish, baby.

[Ken Coleman]

What I think would happen is you and I would be fly fishing and you would accidentally snag my ear.

[George Campbell]

That's a real possibility.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

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[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Proverbs, 19:23. The fear of the Lord leads to life. Then one rests content, untouched by trouble. Our quote today from Scotty Pippen. A Gucci wallet and a Target wallet hold the same amount of money. A $10 million house and $100,000 house host the same loneliness. A Ford will also drive you as far as a Bentley.

[George Campbell]

All right, thanks, Scotty.

[Ken Coleman]

Scotty, dropping dimes over here, as the kids like to say.

[George Campbell]

Do they say that still?

[Ken Coleman]

I don't think anybody says that. I'm getting message from the booth. I'm getting a. Ben is saying, no. No one says that.

[George Campbell]

Your kids are at home cringing right

[Ken Coleman]

now going, dad, well, I'm afraid I've said something I don't even intend to say. What is. Do we know what dropping dimes is?

[George Campbell]

I don't. I don't think it's a bad thing.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't think it is. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

You're not gonna get in trouble.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Kelly, the producer has never heard of a resident.

[George Campbell]

Gen Z says said. No, it's.

[Ken Coleman]

She's a millennial.

[George Campbell]

George, I take it back.

[Ken Coleman]

You're a millennial.

[George Campbell]

She just, she plays very young and, you know, fun compared to me, who is an old soul curmudgeon.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Yeah. By the way, she does have a great hat on today. The master's hat.

[George Campbell]

There we go.

[Ken Coleman]

Fantastic. There she is, everybody. Look at that. All you need is a pimento cheese sandwich in your hand. Let's go to Jim in Lansing, Michigan. Jim, how can we help? Hi, Jim.

[Caller]

So, yeah, so I just had a quick question as to how to talk to my dad about credit cards in our business. So I started a business with my father about a year ago, and I personally, I don't do debt. I don't do credit cards. I don't do any of that. It's all scary. Now. He loves credit cards. He doesn't have a lot of debt in, you know, his personal life, but he just loves credit cards. He has them all over the place. And I voiced when he wanted to get one for the business. I voiced my concern then, but I know better than to argue with my father. And we ended up getting the business credit card. And I just figured, you know, I would take initiative to make sure that nothing bad happens. Now, this past month, something bad did happen with that. We tried to pay it off and the bank marked it as fraudulent. And so then we got late fees and interest on that credit card. And that terrifies me. I want to get rid of this stupid thing, but I don't know how to. I don't know how to have that discussion.

[George Campbell]

Well, this is a generational money fight. He's been living this way for so long. You're not going to change his mind as the young whippersnapper, I know that.

[Caller]

Are you talking about to him? Yes. Every time that I talk to him, though, about their credit cards, his excuses, you know, I've been doing this longer than you've been alive. I've never been charged interest. But now he has been, and I don't.

[George Campbell]

Well, what he really said is, I don't respect your opinion in this business.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. And which means he's not going to accept your opinion.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So now you got a. A real problem. Problem, don't you?

[Caller]

Well, yeah. So, great businessman. So I don't like the idea of that, but I just.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, but are you long term in this business? Have you already made the decision or is this just something early on you're just kind of. I'll do the family business for a while until I figure out what I want to do with my life. What's your status?

[Caller]

No, this is, this is, this is long term for me, but.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

How old is he?

[Caller]

Like 50.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so this is a long ways away from like you inheriting the business on your own. This could be another 25 years of this, and it's not going to be the last fight you guys have. So just know that going into business with family can be a fun idea and a harsh reality. So, yeah, the conversation is, dad, I respect how you build things. I want to build this as well. I want to feel like an equal partner. Can we try running this thing, lean debt free and see how it goes? And when. And if we run into a situation where it's like, dang it, we need the credit card, I will concede and we'll have that conversation. So give him a trial instead of a debate and that way he'll put his defenses down. Does he like a challenge?

[Caller]

Yeah, I can give that a shot.

[George Campbell]

90 days maybe.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't Know, Yeah, I don't, I don't mind.

[George Campbell]

George's approach might be a stubborn horse.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know, he might be. You got nothing to lose with George's approach. I have a high sense here that this not going to go the way you want it to go and he's not going to change, so that means you do too. Okay. And so I like George's approach, but you need to reconcile the fact that this is the business I want to be in, this is my long term play, and I philosophically disagree with my dad on debt.

[George Campbell]

And the truth is, you guys did not align on values for this business before you started the partnership. You didn't set the ground rules or the boundaries and said, hey, one value I have is we're going to run this business completely debt free because it lowers our risk, lowers our stress, and increases our chances this thing survives. That's really the hardest part.

[Caller]

We don't have any loans or anything on the. Yeah, we don't have any loans or anything on the business. It's just that credit card running expenses through points, but now we don't have any points because we were paying somebody else's point.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, that's where those, that's where those late fees will go.

[Ken Coleman]

So I, I just think you, you talk to dad, you keep chirping about it. If you want to always respectful, make the challenge that George gave you, I'm all for that. But I'm also a realist to know that if he just isn't going to change his mind, you aren't going to change it for him. And so I would reconcile that and go, I'm going to do things different when I'm in charge. Until then, I'm going to focus on what I can control or what I do agree with and just learn how to deal with that. It's just a tough situation. I don't want you to have this constant tension between your dad and you over this issue because it seems like it's a healthy business otherwise.

[Caller]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, tough thing, man. It's tough.

[George Campbell]

But hey, you're not going to leave the business over it. So then you got to make peace with it and try to over time get them on your side. But, but again, it's an old dog. New tricks are hard.

[Caller]

I know.

[Ken Coleman]

Trust me. George is always trying to teach me new tricks. Aubrey's up next in Raleigh, North Carolina. You see what I did there?

[George Campbell]

Well, I would just think I just helped Ken download like an airline app for the first time and it Felt like helping my grandpa. He had his readers on and everything. It was fantastic.

[Ken Coleman]

It was.

[George Campbell]

That's what it reminded me of.

[Ken Coleman]

It's true. It was at a Starbucks in Charlotte. That was fun. Aubrey, how can we help you today?

[Caller]

Hey, how are y'?

All?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. What's going on?

[Caller]

So, look, I'm just curious. Me and my wife, we've been married now going on two years. We've completely gotten out of all of our car debt, you know, everything else like that. So we're just left with the house now. And I'm just curious. She would like to go on. She likes to travel. She was a travel nurse when we got married, and she wants to travel to Italy. And I'm wondering if we can kind of of not necessarily put a pause on the house, but maybe not pay as much extra on the house to be able to take extra fun trips.

[Ken Coleman]

How much is the trip gonna be?

[Caller]

Trip's probably gonna end up being around 4,000, if I had to guess.

[Ken Coleman]

And you have no debt?

[Caller]

No. No debt besides the house? No, sir.

[George Campbell]

So this is.

[Ken Coleman]

You're just simply saying we would slow down on our aggressive of pain off of the house to be able to just sock $4,000 away fairly quickly to take a trip to Italy?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Campbell]

I got.

[Ken Coleman]

Why is that a problem? I think it's great.

[George Campbell]

You live your life, man. I mean, baby steps, four through six, I mean, really through seven is. You're. You're taking the. You're taking the, you know, foot off the pedal here and go. We don't need to be gazelle intense anymore. We just need to be intentional. So as long as you're saving up, you're paying cash for this. This trip. I mean, it's not going to delay your mortgage payoff by a year. We're talking a couple months at most.

[Caller]

Right?

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know how you're going to do a trip to Italy for 4,000 is what's running my brain part. I was like, what are you doing? Are you staying in a box?

[George Campbell]

Are you guys doing hostels?

[Caller]

No, it's. It's a family trip, so it's kind of split. Split cost between everybody.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, that's even better.

[George Campbell]

Like, lodging is split, so that makes it a little cheaper. Got it.

[Ken Coleman]

I wish I knew some Italian right now. I would throw it out there as an encouragement to say, do this. Live a little, you know? George, you know any Italian?

[George Campbell]

Bien. That might be Spanish. I have no clue. I. I think I failed that class.

[Ken Coleman]

Kelly, help us out. What is happening?

[George Campbell]

She did du lingo, right?

[Caller]

Ciao.

[Ken Coleman]

Ciao.

[George Campbell]

That's not a good.

[Ken Coleman]

That's not what this needs though. But thank you. She did help us.

[George Campbell]

Well, ciao. We'll see you in Italy, Aubrey. Right.

[Ken Coleman]

That works. Okay, great. Yeah. Aubry. I mean, listen, I. You don't need permission on this from anybody.

[George Campbell]

You're not doing anything wrong by doing this. It's okay to slow down your self imposed. The key is you're being intentional. You're going to pay it off early, aren't you?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, we definitely want. It's a little bit daunting. Still. Still having 200,000 left on it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, really quick question. Is one of you. You or your wife actually leaning towards not doing this?

[Caller]

Going on the trip? Yeah, no, we're.

We're both.

I would say we're both leaning forward towards it. I'm more. I. I'm more on the terms of paying stuff off as quick as possible.

[George Campbell]

Lean hard, man. Lean into that leaning tower of Pisa.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is.

[George Campbell]

Full circle.

[Ken Coleman]

You worked really hard on that. I think I like Kelly's chow better. But hey, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.