You Aren't Defined By Your Financial Mistakes

Summary

The Ramsey Show Episode Summary: "You Aren't Defined By Your Financial Mistakes"

Date: July 1, 2026
Hosts: Dave Ramsey, George Campbell Ramsey
Co-host Appearance & Guest: Rachel Cruze
Focus: Overcoming financial guilt and mistakes, raising successful kids, understanding financial contentment, and practical financial troubleshooting for listeners.

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Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show tackles the recurring theme that your financial past does not define your future. Dave and his team answer listener questions about debt, contentment, raising children, dealing with guilt, retirement withdrawal strategies, co-dependency, and more. The tone stays honest, encouraging, and direct, embodying the “tough love” Ramsey style.

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Key Discussion Points & Caller Segments

1. Mom Guilt, Contentment & Educational Choices

[00:48–06:59, 10:28–16:48]

• Caller: Brenna from Las Vegas
• Topic: Whether to pursue private schooling, homeschool, or balance financial tradeoffs and parental guilt
• Dave’s Take: Focus on what actually creates successful adults—character, resilience, gratitude, discipline—not the trappings of expensive schools, cars, or social appearances.
• Notable Quote:
  • Dave: "We're not trying to raise great kids. We're trying to raise kids who become great adults." [04:01]
• Key Points:
  • Private school is a “parent trophy” for some.
  • Homeschooling is fine if family desires and can afford it; it’s not “less than.”
  • Don’t let comparison to others drive parenting or financial decisions.
  • Instilling gratitude and the ability to do hard things is more important than chasing status symbols.
• Memorable Anecdote:
  • Dave recounts buying a Jaguar to “look successful” at age 23 and calls out the prevalent mistake of equating possessions with achievement.

2. Contentment for Children and the Culture of Entitlement

[10:28–19:19]

• Discussion: How children actually build character and why hardship produces resilience.
• Notable Quote:
  • Dave: "Some of the best generations of adults have come from children who endured hardship." [10:28]
  • Dave: "You become content because you realize it’s not all about you." [15:50]
• 3-Step Parenting Approach:
  1. Gratitude: Teach children to say “thank you”—begins as manners but matures into humility.
  2. Humility: Recognize blessings come from others and from God, which develops contentment.
  3. Contentment: Flows from gratitude, not owning things.

3. Debt & “Interest-Free” Financing: The Reality

[21:43–27:54]

• Caller: Todd, Topeka, Kansas
• Topic: Should he take advantage of a manufacturer’s “interest-free” program on a tractor?
• Dave’s Take:
  • Zero-interest deals just hide the cost elsewhere (usually sticker price).
  • There’s no “free lunch.” Millionaires don’t build wealth by playing these games.
• Notable Quote:
  • Dave: "There's no instance that you can loan someone money for free unless you're making up what would have been the interest somewhere else." [22:33]

4. Withdrawal Rates in Retirement: 4% Rule Mythbusting

[28:18–41:36]

• Caller: Susan, Portland, OR
• Situation: 62, no debt, $1.5M in retirement funds, fears running out of money.
• Dave’s Analysis:
  • If investments average 12% and she withdraws 8%, the principal grows by 4% annually—she’ll never run out.
  • Slams “the common 4% rule” as outdated, over-cautious advice.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dave: “Why do we want to be common? I don’t want to be common anything!” [30:35]
  • Dave: “If you make 12 on your money and you pull off only 4, that leaves 8, that means your money’s still going to double every 10 years, not 30 years.” [37:51]
• Encouragement: Don’t let fear or overly-conservative advice keep you living small after working hard to build wealth.

5. Debt Crisis, Asset Liquidation, & Not Being Defined by Mistakes

[43:44–51:55]

• Caller: Philip, Charlotte, NC
• Problem: $80k+ in credit card debt, lawsuit threats, owns assets (boat, land, equipment).
• Ramsey Guidance:
  • Liquidate non-essential assets (boat, equipment), keep land as last resort.
  • Get legal help for negotiating with creditors (“Guardian Litigation”).
  • "You just stacked up a bunch of stuff is what you did. You got yourself in a pinch. But you’re not defined by those mistakes." [49:40]
  • Key wisdom: Willingness to sacrifice defines the path to financial freedom.
• Supportive Closure:
  • George: "The willingness to sacrifice is the key determining factor for him." [51:51]

6. Gambling Spouse & Financial Boundaries

[66:29–73:58]

• Caller: Sarah, Charleston, SC
• Crisis: Newly married, discovers husband's $30k+ gambling debt; dependent, at home with small child.
• Dave’s Tough Love:
  • Only trust actions, not intentions ("talk is cheap").
  • Husband must cede all financial control, get into therapy/Gamblers Anonymous immediately.
  • Fast action is the only way to save the marriage and prevent financial ruin.
• Notable Quote:
  • Dave: "He has two and a half minutes to get plugged into the next Gambler’s Anonymous meeting and two and a half minutes to have the pastor at your doorstep..." [69:20]

7. Blended Finances, Pre-Marital Debt, and Joint Account Setup

[80:12–85:31]

• Caller: Thomas, Canada
• Question: Preparing finances for marriage; how to tackle small debt and save for an engagement ring.
• Advice:
  • Pay the credit card immediately; save one month’s salary for the ring—don’t conflate ring price with love or permanence.
  • Only consolidate finances after marriage; set up one joint checking account.

8. High Rent & Sacrifices to Meet Financial Goals

[86:06–91:22]

• Caller: Arianna, Salt Lake City
• Dilemma: Half of household income goes to rent; considering moving for more savings.
• Guidance:
  • Dave: "Is renting here, now, with this amount of money and this situation going to take me where I want to be 10 years from now? All your goals are not tied to that house." [90:45]
  • Move, build savings.

9. Family Property Complications

[107:11–115:32]

• Caller: Sean, Tallahassee
• Scenario: Dad wants to take a HELOC on family trust property (multiple co-owners).
• Advice:
  • Don’t sign. The ownership structure is muddled; clarify with written agreements.
  • Consider selling and dividing the property if possible.
• Notable Quote:
  • Dave: "When we are tangled, we are tangled. And this is going to end poorly." [115:32]

10. Financial Red Flags: Marriage, Cohabitation, and Healthy Alignment

[96:22–104:32]

• Topic: A listener’s question about fairness, division of bills/cohabitation vs. marriage.
• Key Principles:
  • Don’t “play house” before marriage; resentment and confusion about money will almost always result.
  • Marriage boosts wealth-building odds—must have full alignment on money, kids, religion, and in-laws.
• Success Sequence Reference:
  • Graduate high school → Full-time job → Marriage → Children/moving in together = 97% chance of avoiding poverty and achieving middle income or higher by mid-30s. [101:05–103:19]

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Other Notable Moments & Quotes

• Dave on Entitlement:
  • "You don’t deserve anything. Shut up. When you have the money to pay for it, that’s when you deserve it. Until then, you’re a whiner." [15:50]
• Financial Advisors & Over-Analyzing:
  • Dave calls out “Certified Financial Pharisees” for paralyzing savers with caution (especially around the 4% withdrawal rule). [32:49–39:05]
• On Car Payments & Value:
  • "The number one thing we all buy that goes down in value is a car. And the number one item that messes up people’s finances is a car." [124:18]

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Memorable Listener Exchange

Caller wants to sell his truck before marriage:

• Dave: "Let this call be a warning… If you’re 24 and there might be a truck standing between me and her, then don’t buy the truck, honey." [126:23]
• George: "Your priorities will be revealed pretty quickly. If you’re not willing to give up that truck for a better life with that girl…" [126:23]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:48] — Mom Guilt & School Choices
• [10:28] — Raising Resilient, Grateful Kids
• [21:43] — The “Interest-Free” Loan Myth
• [28:18] — Retirement Withdrawal Rates; 4% Rule Critique
• [43:44] — Debt Crisis, Asset Liquidation, and Not Being Defined by Mistakes
• [66:29] — Gambling Addiction & Financial Safety
• [80:12] — Pre-Marriage Finances & Joint Accounts
• [86:06] — High Rent Dilemma & Sacrifices
• [107:11] — Family Property/Trust Conflicts

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Closing Thoughts & Takeaways

• Your past mistakes—financial or otherwise—do not imprison you.
• Wealth and success come from discipline, gratitude, and contentment, not keeping up with others.
• Avoid “success theater” with cars, schools, and possessions.
• Don’t let fear-mongering keep you playing small with your money.
• Align your values, especially before marriage; don’t be afraid to start over or draw hard boundaries.
• Stay away from financial “tricks” and focus on solid, proven paths to wealth.

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Episode in a Nutshell:

This episode blends compassion and tough love, reinforcing the Ramsey mantra: Anyone can start today—regardless of past mistakes—and chart a path toward financial peace and purpose. Teach your kids hard things, live below your means, align deeply with your life partner, and don’t get distracted by what others flaunt. And always: “Act, don’t just talk.”

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Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey network and the Fairwinds credit union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Campbell Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and co host of Smart Money Happy hour is my co host today. The phone number is 888-255-2225. The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Brenna is with us in Las Vegas. Hi Brenna, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi.

I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I have a question for you. It's in regards to whether my husband and I should be working harder looking at debt and how to deal with contentment and mom guilt at not being able to give my kids everything that I think they deserve

to give.

Some back story. We're on baby step four, five, six. We have two emergency funds. We have no debt. My husband and I both work part time so we get to spend lots of time with our kids that we easily pay all of our bills. I feel like our budget is comfortable. We don't pinch pennies, but we're careful with our money. My son is becoming school aged in Las Vegas. We have like the worst schools in the nation. So public schools is not a good option. The private school that all of our friends are sending their kids to that are associated with our church is like $13,000 a year for like kindergarten. And that just seems like an outrageous amount of money to send on early education. So we're looking at homeschooling, but I'm just worried that I'm not working hard enough or looking at other options in order to give my kids what they need. But at the same time, I feel like I'd work harder just to send my kids to somebody else to take care of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. You have a lot of guilt going on. A lot of different labels of guilt. I mean, it's all over the place. I don't know if I can get to all of them. Well, I mean, it's just choices is what it comes down to. If you want to do the private school, you're going to work more, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's your trade off. And if not, you're gonna do the homeschool and you know, and there's a trade off there too, by the way.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

People who homeschool will tell you there are two camps. The ones that love it and the ones that viciously hate it and put their children in another school as fast as they possibly can. So all homeschool. Homeschooling is not for everyone. I think our children would probably be dead if they were homeschooled. I probably would have killed.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And Brenna, if I told you your kids would end up just fine if they were homeschooled, if they went to private school, would you feel better about the choice if you looked into the future? They were great kids, regardless. Which one would you choose?

[Caller]

I mean, personally, I had my kids for a reason. I love hanging out with them. I think I want to homeschool. That's what my heart is leaning towards.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's wrong with that?

[Caller]

My husband and I are leaning towards.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

So what must be true for you to homeschool financially?

[Caller]

Oh, I mean, we could do it right now. Financially. We're good right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's the question? Why would you not do that?

[Caller]

I guess I just. I guess I just watch all of our friends and, like, my son's friends and, like, they're going to go to this, like, expensive private school and, like, I guess that's an example of just, like, I can't give my kids everything in the world that they want. Right? Like, I know that's not feasible. And that wouldn't even make good kids because you got to tell kids no in order to be good people. And I. But at the same time, like, I just worry, like, oh, what is my kid?

[Dave Ramsey]

The answer, though, is this, is we're trying. We're not trying to raise great kids. We're trying to raise kids that become great adults. And so what methodology does that? Is the secret sauce for them to be successful adults someday. That particular shiny private school answer no. Is the secret sauce for them to be wonderful, successful adults someday. Homeschool for 100% no. The secret sauce is you and your husband being good parents and guiding them through whatever educational process you use where they don't lose their dadgum minds in the process of getting an education. But where we get dislodged is where we think that if they don't have this car, they're not going to be successful. If they don't wear these clothes, they're not going to be successful. If they don't go to this school, they're not going to be successful. When those are not the pre. These are not the pre. Indicators of success. Pre indicators of success are what you said earlier. They learned the word no. They're grateful. They're not Entitled. They're kind and compassionate. They're people of strong integrity and strong work ethic. They know how to do hard things because mom and dad taught them how to do hard things. Because there's a whole bunch of people in America who don't know how to do hard things anymore. And if you can do hard things, you immediately stand out from the crowd. And so this is the. These are the indicators of future success with your children. It's not what school they went to. And then you want to fast forward that all the way out to what college they went to, which is the biggest joke on the planet. What college you go to has zero correlation with success. There's no piece of research that's ever shown that. And yet people still pay 25x to go to a certain college because I went to that college. As if that is the secret sauce.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

It's really a trophy for the parent

[Dave Ramsey]

to say, look at my parent trophies. For some of your friends, they're parading these private schools in front of you as a trophy for the parents. They're doing it for themselves, not for their kids.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like some kids in travel sports. The reason they're in travel sports is because dad has an issue.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Dad never made it pro, so his kid has to.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you don't think he has an issue, just watch how he treats the umpire. You know, I mean, this is all there, right? It's all the same thing. So, yeah, that's where it comes down to, is just my overall rant or whatever there is. It's a really cool question. I love your question, by the way. My reaction to it, though, is to major in the things that actually do cause success and discard the things that don't that other people count on.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then that helps me with my contentment.

[Caller]

That's awesome. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Take it over into another bucket and say, okay. Does buying a really nice car cause success? Absolutely not. But a whole bunch of people buy the car to appear successful, to appear that there's something they're not. To impress someone at a stoplight they'll never meet. And they have a $1,200 car payment, right? And I've done that. I did that when I was 23. I bought a Jaguar for other people to look at. Not because I wanted a Jaguar, because I was a shallow little turd. And that's, you know. And that's, you know, you see what I'm saying? And that's the wrong measure of success.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

It'll lead you down the Wrong path. Giving a 16 year old a Range Rover doesn't mean you gave them everything. You just created a real expensive disaster that's waiting to happen. And it happens. People. I see people driving.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a good point.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Teenagers driving brand new SUVs because the parents said, I want to give them everything. They deserve it. They've worked so hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and the one I remember when Rachel saved up, she saved up like $8,000 and we matched, we had 400 one day for your first car and she got a $16,000 Beamer. Used Beamer, you know, back then was a really nice car. Yeah. Now it's not a bad car and, but you know, and you know, twit around the corner buys the same BMW, brand new.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Ooh.

[Dave Ramsey]

To flex for 16 year old. I guess. I don't know. Flex or not. $523 car payment back then. Oh man. And that was like, be like having a $1,500 car payment now.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Might still be paying it off, but it's total flex. And I'm like, and now where is that kid today? Lost as a ball in tall weeds, you know, just can't. She just lost that kid. They hadn't got a chance.

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[Dave Ramsey]

That's such a good subject. Contentment for children and adults and mom guilt in dealing with all that. So you don't have mom guilt or dad guilt, if you understand or to the Extent you understand, I guess none of us do this perfectly, but to the extent you understand what causes children to be, to develop into successful adults and it turns out it is not anything to do with the school they go to, very little. It's not anything to do with the possessions that they have. It's not even the number of hours that daddy is home as if they're going to lose their ability to be nurtured because daddy works a job. You know, we've got this nurturing movement going on now. And so yes, we do want children to be safe, we want them to be protected. But you know, some of the best generations of adults have come from children who endured hardship, not horrible things. They were not hungry, hopefully they were not whatever. But they, you know, you think about your grandparents or for some of you, your great grandparents or great great grandparents that were children in the Great Depression and how did they turn out? Well, that was my grandpa and he turned into a, well, he was actually a young adult in the Great Depression. But you know, so, you know, some people were devastated during that time, obviously, but the hard times did not keep the person from turning out. It turned out they learned how to do hard things.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And so that's resilience, that's some grit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Create resilience and grit. And then you, because you're going, no matter what car give them and private school you put them in and no matter how much of a bubble you put them in to where they're not, they're not hungry and they're not in a crime situation where they're being a victim of crime or all those kinds of things, if you put them in a perfect bubble and they don't learn how to deal with tough things when they come then they're going to have really, really hard time. They're going to be an anxiety filled adult because they don't know how to deal with crap.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

You didn't give them the tools.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can give them a shovel when the manure comes, you know, and so, you know, but that's an interesting discussion and Rachel and I wrote a lot about that in the book that we did together. Smart money, smart kids. One of the things that we've answered for parents a whole lot over the years is how do you raise children in this world that are not entitled? And it starts with there's a three step process. It starts with gratitude. And so you become great. Teach a child gratitude, teach them grateful. And with a little kid it sounds like manners. Thank you mom for dinner. That's gratitude. But it sounds like manners. Good manners. Thank you, mom, for dinner. Thank you, dad, for, you know, the help with my homework. That's gratitude. Right? And gratitude then shows you humility. Cause in order to have gratitude, there has to be some humility. It has to be. It's not all about you. Because if I'm entitled to dinner, then I can just be mad at mom and have a fit. If I don't like the broccoli, I don't like whatever, Right? But see, we were not allowed to do that at our house. And our children were not allowed to do that. You might not like the broccoli, but you don't get to disrespect the mother that created it. Because I'll take you out and create another one looks just like you.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

You're going to wish you ate some

[Dave Ramsey]

broccoli when Dave's born. Not going to disrespect the mom. That's not an option. Right. That's old school parenting. But that's how it works. And so you get to understand the world doesn't revolve around your little butt. Your little butt is just one more little butt, you know? And so it doesn't revolve around you. And so if it doesn't revolve around you, then you would be grateful. And then when you're grateful, that sets you up for the ability to be content. But contentment does not exist in a bubble all by itself. Over here. And just land on someone like a butterfly on your shoulder. Oh, now I'm peaceful and content. You become content. Cause you realize it's not all about you. And I say, thank you, Lord, for the blessings in my life, Father, thank you. You blessed me. This is a prayer we say around the Ramses all the time. You blessed us beyond our wildest imaginations. Our mind is blown by you, Father. Thank you for what you poured onto us. That's gratitude. But it comes from, I didn't do this by myself, Obviously. I know my heavenly father has poured out upon me something that I couldn't have done by myself. And yes, I worked hard, but I couldn't have done it by myself. And so then out of that, you set yourself in a spiritual position to be content. And when you can teach children that in this culture they have a superpower,

[George Campbell Ramsey]

then they're totally good. To not upgrade that car with a payment. They go, I'm good. My car works. It's fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, and they don't say stupid stuff like, I work so hard, I deserve. You don't deserve anything. Shut up. When you have the money to pay for it, that's when you deserve it. Until then, you're a whiner. Call the wambulance. Right. I mean, way I work so hard. Oh, shut up. We all work hard.

[Caller]

We.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't meet anybody says, you know, I don't work very hard, and I deserve it. Nobody says that. Of course you work hard. Shut up. Now go make some dadgum money. Live on less than you make. Get yourself out of debt and save up and pay for something, and then you can say, I deserve it.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

But until then, that's just a dangerous word.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't serve $1,200 car payments. That's just dumb butt.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Those are kids who grew up into adults but never actually became adults.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's kind of the reverse. They're children that became children. Stunted growth, they become grown children.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

That's frightening.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which is kind of an oxymoron if you think about it.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And you don't want your kid to marry that person, let alone be them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. You teach your children to identify those people and stay away from them, because otherwise they will make your grandchildren. And now you've got a real mess.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Yeah, that's grandchildren.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you imagine? Entitled grandchildren?

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Not in the Ramsey house. Well, I mean, Dave's not putting up with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I love my grandbabies. I mean, grandbabies are awesome. If I've known how great grandbabies are going to be, I'd have been nicer to their parents. But, you know. But they're. But, you know, Papa Dave, we don't. We don't do that at Papa Dave's house. Papa Dave's house is how we do things.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

There's rules.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's, like, you know, we say, thank you, Jesus, and thank you, Mimi. We were. We are grateful at Papa Dave's house because we know where all good things come from. Jesus and Mimi.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Dave.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Just lucky to be in the room.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just lucky to be around and get to observe this thing happen.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

You're a turtle on the fence post.

[Dave Ramsey]

But isn't that fun? I mean, it's. I loved her question. That's why I wanted to spend a minute.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Cause the intentions were great, the motive

[Dave Ramsey]

was great, and it was not an insincere question. And it took me to a place I didn't think I would go to this quickly in today's show. But, you know, so many of the things that we chase that we call happiness or we call entitled, or we call Deserve are the wrong things to get us to the destination. We were trying to get there. It turns out the Range Rover won't take you there.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Well, it's hard because the character stuff that's invisible. And as a parent and kid, you just want to see the visible thing, the nice car, the private school. Look at what they have. She said it. Well, I look around at all my friends. Well, there's the problem. Stop looking around because you're going to. It'll lead you to that discontentment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get off of Facebook and Instagram. Get out of the car park. No one puts the crap in their life on Facebook or Instagram. They only put the highlight reel. It's like, oh, Rachel used to do that thing. It's like no one puts on there the, you know, the 1993 Honda, hashtag blessed. You know, nobody does that. They always put right the new thing on there. This garbage, you know, the thing I can't.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Shiny new car with a bow on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look what my husband got me. Alexis with a red bow. You know, whatever.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Doesn't get as many likes on Instagram. Yeah, and that's, that's what you're chasing.

[Dave Ramsey]

No one puts good luck. They don't put, you know, your child having a meltdown. Three years old on the cereal aisle. And everyone who's ever had a kid had one that just lost their mind in the grocery store at least once. It's like they don't, you know, we ought to post that stuff.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

I'm willing to. I've got a three year old and a one year old that's ever. That's a Tuesday in my house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you shouldn't do that because then they'll have a digital tattoo the rest of their life. Somebody will pull that up when they're running for Congress. Sam, If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I recommend NetSuite. NetSuite is the number one AI cloud ERP and more than 43,000 businesses run on it, including us here at Ramsey Solutions. Their AI isn't bolted on, it's built in. And it connects everything that runs your business, accounting, inventory, customer data, all in one place. Because when your numbers are connected, AI actually works like it's supposed to. NetSuite's AI helps flag cash flow problems, spot inventory issues, close your books faster, and cut down on manual reporting. If your revenue is at least seven figures. Go to netsuite.com for a free product tour. That's netsuite.com Ramsey. Todd is with us. Todd's in Topeka, Kansas. Hey Todd, how are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, so we agree that debt is probably not a good thing. What is your thoughts on programs that have interest free, like for tractors, cars, something like that. The manufacturer will have an free program and you, you can make like in my case it would be on a tractor and they have all sorts of different programs that kind of fit. Fit what would work for you. But I like the thought of using other people's money for free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I don't know. I know the car manufacturing side of it, I don't know the tractor side of it, but I suspect it's similar. Okay. In the car world, the only way you get an interest free loan on a brand new car, zero interest, is you pay sticker price. Which I don't know why anyone would pay sticker price. Because I'm gonna buy a new car, I'm gonna buy it for a lot less than sticker. Like a lot less than sticker. And so the difference in what I would pay for it and what you would pay for it if you took the interest free sticker price loan is called interest. Yeah, you know, they got, they got their money, they just didn't call it that, you know. And I suspect John Deere or Caterpillar or whoever is probably doing the same thing on the tractor side with Kanbines or whatever else with the, you know, those are huge ticket items and I suspect they're there. Let me just tell you. There's no instance that you can loan someone money for free unless you're making up what would have been the interest somewhere else. Someone's paying interest on the borrowed money somewhere and so it's built into something somewhere, in other words. Or they're just taking a little less profit and calling it an interest free loan. Right. Because banks don't loan money interest free. And so organizations don't lend money interest free. And if they do, it means they're making the equivalent of interest somewhere else or they're going to go out of business. Agreed.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no free lunch normally.

[Caller]

Not normally. So I was going to pay cash for this machine and the guy gave me the price. It was $89,000. OK. And then, and then I was reading something and I saw that Kubota had interest free program. So I called the dealer and the guy the salesman and asked him, and he said yes, so. And the price was still 89,000. And then he said, there's all sorts of programs if you'd like to put down what you'd like to put down, whether it be a monthly, yearly payment, what have you. So that made me think, well, what

[Dave Ramsey]

I want then is a discount, discount for cash. Now, I don't like my $89,000 price. If I'm in your shoes, that's the way I would go at this. I'm not gonna borrow the money. And the reason is they're gonna make the money somewhere. And then, number one, number two, as I've studied wealthy people, I've never met a single millionaire that said, you know, the way I became millionaire was I parlayed all these nothing down, 0% interest things on my Kubota. And that's how I became a millionaire. Never have I met a millionaire that said they did that. Millionaires just don't play with this stuff. But it's kind of a mind game that it's, you know, if you like math like you do and I do to get into it. But, George, have you run into this with the tractor world at all?

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Not in the tractor world specifically, but the 0% game is everywhere now. And number one, you're right, the sticker price is going to be higher and there's no negotiating, so you're not gonna get any cash discount. That's what you're trading off here. Number two, they're hoping and knowing most people won't pay it off in that zero percent promotional period, which then triggers all the interest. So he might be the exception of the rule because he has the cash, but it's still adding risk. And he's still getting a worse deal by going for this. And they get kickbacks. Anytime they work with a lender, they're getting a kickback.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, I, you know, it doesn't occur to me to borrow money under any circumstances, so. Because I've not found that to be how people become successful financially. And so, you know, I've got a Kubota skid steer at my farm. It's one of my favorite toys. We put a bush hog on the front of it. And I go over there and bush hog and talk about therapy.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

That's a great one.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's kind of like pressure washing therapy. It's the same thing and it's better than gills. Feels really good. I'm knocked down and cut up and chew up some stuff with that thing. And I never thought a thing about doing anything except paying cash for that when I bought it. Yeah, just a toy.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Well, that's the other part of this we're not talking about is this sort of slippery slope mentality of, well, I did the 0% over here. Why not do it on the furniture and on the appliance and on my personal car? Because I know I'm smart enough to pay it off. I have the cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a lot of calories to burn to keep up with all of it. And so. But no, I, you know, I want

[George Campbell Ramsey]

him to test it, call us back

[Dave Ramsey]

and cash test it won't cause you to be wealthy. The interest on $89,000 or whatever, that's what the price was.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

My next question is, what do they cost? Used? Could you buy one slightly used at 70?

[Dave Ramsey]

I think Todd can probably afford this. He's just doing mental gymnastics. I think he can buy 100, but

[George Campbell Ramsey]

he doesn't want to part with his cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he was okay with it until the dealer said, you can get zero percent. And then he started doing mental backflips.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

I'd like to hang on to it at that point.

[Dave Ramsey]

I kind of understand how you can get there, but no, I would not do it. I'm not, I don't do it. I would not tell you to do it. I've not met wealthy people that use this as a method of building wealth. And so while it sounds like I'm using other people's money for free, you're somewhere in there somebody's not. It doesn't work if you do. All right. Susan's with us in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Susan, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I'm a 62 year old divorcee. I have zero debt. I don't own a home, but my car is paid for. And I'm living with my partner who does not charge me rent. I have approximately 1.5 million in retirement funds. And my question is, what is a good amount that I could take out monthly and still have enough to live on? Because my biggest fear is running out of money. And I live very frugally now. I live on $2,000 a month. And I just think I need just guidance in what to think about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's just do some basic math. Okay. What's your 1.5 million invested in?

[Caller]

Traditional IRAs, Roth IRAs, and I mean, what's the investment?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good mutual funds. Growth stock mutual funds, yes. Okay, so you think the portfolio is averaging what the market has averaged around 11%, 12%.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so if your 1.5 is going up by. Let's just use some. Let's pretend if it's going up by 12% a year and you pulled off 8%, that means it would still go up by 4% a year. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so 8% of a million and a half is $120,000 a year.

[Caller]

Whoa.

[Dave Ramsey]

$10,000 a month?

[Caller]

Yeah, I could do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you're. Okay.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

I said you spend two grand a month.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

We're a ways away. You could upgrade your life.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. And here's the idea, here's the thing. If we. If we make 12 and we pull off 8, we never touch the 1.5 and it grows by 4 a year. You never even touch the principal, much less run out of money.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's where I get hung up on. Because I see it as a finite amount, and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not. It's not finite if you never touch it. It's perpetual.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

If you cash it out and put it in a checking account, become finite,

[Dave Ramsey]

it's mathematically infinite if you don't touch it.

[Caller]

Okay, and what about the. The common 4% rule? It comes out that it would be about 60,000 gross.

[Dave Ramsey]

What about that? Common. What the hell? What Common? Common. What kind of common? I mean, why do we want to be common? I don't want to be common. Anything.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

What's funny?

[Dave Ramsey]

You're reading the Internet.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

The guy who came up with that, came out and said that was way too conservative. It's probably more like five and a

[Dave Ramsey]

half for me now, who knows what it is? If the inflation rate's 4 and you pull off 8, and you leave 4 in there, there's a common rule. Let's go with that common rule. I just made up a new common rule.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Quick, circle back the financial

[George Campbell Ramsey]

world.

[Dave Ramsey]

The world of CFPs, certified financial planners, financial advisors, financial goobers who get degrees in finance like I did. A bunch of nerds in a pile often become Pharisees. And they get caught up in the world of hypotheticals to where they can't even use any common sense anymore because we get paralysis of the analysis because we're so good at math. Those of us that do that world. George is studying CFP right now and you've observed this. I call them Certified Financial Pharisees. And so instead of certified financial planners, but CFPs, but not all of them are. But some can get caught up in that.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

If you had to generalize the.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then the dumb butts write articles on the Internet and they write stuff like the common rule or the common rule of 4% withdrawal rate. So if you. But here's the trick, folks. You need to learn to do your own math. Because these people spend so much time over analyzing this stuff that there's nothing left when they finish. And their set of assumptions most of the time is so asinine that it doesn't apply to the real world. So just learn to do your own math. So here's the rule. Here's some basic things you can do math with. All right, the inflation rate has averaged for the last 84 years. The Consumer Price Index, the CPI, is what we measure inflation with.4.2%. That means, on average, your money has lost its purchasing power. 4% a year. Now, Biden and Covid, we had some 9 and 10%. Carter, we had some 10 and 12 and 14% and gas lines in the 70s. If you're old, okay, but those. But still the average over 80 plus years is about 4%. And so if you're gonna project out from age 60 to age 100 your retirement years, then 4%'s probably pretty good. There might be some years that's higher. There might be some years that's lower. The average, which is the middle. Hello, it's not the median, but it's. The average is still 4%. So if you do that, if you're making 12 on your money and you leave 4 in there, your money grows by as much as it lost in purchasing power. You broke even. That's pretty simple, right? So if you leave, let your money grow by 4%, you're not even only not deteriorating your nest egg. The goose is just fine and he's still laying some small golden eggs. But we're taking eight of the 12. You're more that'll run in perpetuation forever. Do your own math. But some goobers say, well, we need to inflation adjust. I just did. We need to adjust for this and that and we need to have a conservative number and we need to use real dollars and we need to use CGR and we need. And would you shut up and join us over here in the real world? Because if you draw 4% and you leave 8% in there, this money's going to double in about seven years. And this poor woman has worked her whole life to have a million and a half dollars. She's a freaking millionaire. She's scared and she's scared to live because she read your stupid. But common law goal, whatever the garbage. The line was for 4% withdrawal rates and I've seen 4% withdrawal rates for 40 years that I've been on the air doing this.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

That study was done in 1994. That's the crazy part. And here's what's wild. When you actually look into the study, it has a lot of assumptions. It was a low market returns, high inflation, assuming your portfolio had a whole lot of bonds in it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Assuming your portfolio sucked.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Exactly. And to your point, Dave, I read an article from a highly respected CFP that everyone in the community would say, this guy knows what he's talking about. Here's what he found. Over two thirds of the time, the 4% rule leaves retirees finishing their 30 year horizon with more than double their starting principal.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's if they suck at investing.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

That's pretty wild to think about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Put it in a decent mutual fund instead of a bunch of stupid bonds like some of you CFPs tell them to do. I'm 65. You know how many bonds I own? Precisely zero. Which upsets the CFP community to no end because don't you understand asset allocation? Yeah, I understand how dumb the theory and I'm not gonna follow it because if there's anything I am, it's defiant. I'm 100% defiant of stupidity. So you know. And I'm not wearing a mask either. So shut up. I mean, I'm just defiant, right?

[George Campbell Ramsey]

He likes to go against the grain guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

And guess what? It worked out really good for me. So here's the thing. If you make 12 because you've got good growth stock mutual funds and you get average market returns, the S and P, the standard and poor 500 is average 11.8. So if you make 12 on your money and you pull off only 4, that leaves 8, that means your money's still going to double every 10 years, not 30 years. Whoever did the study, the second study you referenced, okay, so that means her million and a half. She's 60 years old. 62 years old at 72. She's going to have $3 million and have lived on 4% because she was scared by your stupid butt analysis on the Internet. See, this makes me livid when you put out bad information and these people work their whole lives and now you've still got them on beans and rice because you over analyze everything in your pharisetical mindset. You're killing me out there. And then Dave Ramsey makes people poor. No, Dave Ramsey made them rich. So they don't have to worry about people like you. That's what. Oh God, the 4% rule. Did I knew how to push it? Did I get hyped up on that?

[George Campbell Ramsey]

But anyway, his blood pressure, if you had one of these watches on, it'd be like, hey, you need to take a walk.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, because these people have worked so

[George Campbell Ramsey]

hard, it's hope stealing. I mean, they're going, well, you need more hope stealers. Nope, you need more.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need at least 7 million and a half dollars. And it's still not enough. It's still not enough. Like Zillow came out with an article last week. You know, 243 cities, it takes a million dollars to buy a starter home. And they put out that as the clickbait headline. When Zillow's own data says that the typical starter home is 199,000, but they managed to find 242 cities in California.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

They cherry picked the highest cost of

[Dave Ramsey]

living areas that have a million dollar starter home. Well, guess what? You don't need to be living those in those stupid cities. If you're buying your first house and you're a broke newlywed so you can't live in Manhattan, it's too expensive. But Zillow puts out there as if the first time home, they're stealing everybody's hope. First time homebuyers are all out of the market because 242 cities have a million dollars starting. See, that's just a freaking lie. Is what that is for clickbait and gets people fired up when the average starter home right now in America this moment, according to freaking Zillow, is 199,000. This is how dumb these people are.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Well, they cherry picked it. Now they're going, hey, check out our site for affordable homes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. And so this is why you can't trust people like Zillow, because they're going to click bait you into believing something that's not true according to their own Data. And the 4% withdrawal rate is not true according to marketplace data that has been around if you can do better. Basic sixth grade math. So if you're invested in good mutual funds, you can withdraw 6 to 8% and never touch your principal, leave 100% of your nest egg to your kids. And so if you got a million dollars, that's 60 to 80 thousand dollars a year and never touch the principal, it will grow.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

It's crazy. This CFP, that is a 4% again. It's one of the CFPs. He even said at the end of this, using linear return projections, he found a retiree could safely withdraw roughly 6.6%. That's coming from a respected CFP. So to say that you can't do 6%, you're going to run out of money is hogwash.

[Dave Ramsey]

8%, for that matter, you're not still going to run out of money.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

So 4% is way too conservative. You'll end up, hey, you'll have a good problem, you'll leave a whole lot of money, but in the meantime, you didn't live your life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I've got a buddy that's, he's my age, he's 65. He's got 3,000 bottles of wine in his cellar.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

That's an essay.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's going to drink it all. It's the same thing. He's never going to get through that wine. He's not going to make it. He's not going to make it. He's going to have to sell off some of it or leave it to his kids.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

His kids will be like, well, what?

[Dave Ramsey]

Same thing you can't use. It's impossible to destroy a collection of that size in your lifetime. It's the same exact scenario.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer is here and whoa. Everything changes this time of year. The kids are out of school, routines are out the window. You're traveling more, probably sleeping less. And if you're not careful, you and your family can end up running on fumes. I know, I'm running on fumes right now. If you don't take time to slow down and take care of yourself, all that stress is not just going to disappear. It will show up in your body. It will show up in your relationships. It will show up in your work and your patience everywhere. This is why I'm a big fan of BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. All of their therapists follow a strict code of conduct and you can message yours or schedule sessions right in the app. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Listen, you don't have to carry everything all by yourself this summer. Go to betterhelp.com ramsey to get 10% off. That's betterhelp. H E L P Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Philip is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Philip. What's up?

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call, Dave. I appreciate y' all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

Taking the time to put me on there. So I have found myself at a crossroads in the last week or so. And I started down the path of trying to find debt consolidation, stuff like that. And within the last four or five days, I actually run stuff and really,

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, for the last four or five days what, you broke up?

[Caller]

I've found y' all's YouTube and stuff and really been paying attention to that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, cool.

[Caller]

Listening to what you have to say about the debt and everything, but just kind of wanted to put myself out there and get your opinion on where I need to go. I did start the baby step that you were talking about. I've got the thousand dollars put back away now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

But with the debt consolidation, I really realized how out of control my un consolidated debt has been. I've got 16 credit card accounts. Pretty much all of them are maxed out more or less or on the close side of things. A few of them are in collections. And I actually got a lawsuit not too long ago that did not go through. The court did not find in that company's favor, but the attorney has been reaching out, wanting to settle. So we're trying to tackle this debt and get back on track entirely. I want to see what the lawsuit was on.

[Dave Ramsey]

A credit card that was unpaid.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Okay, good. And how much total credit card debt on the 16 credit cards?

[Caller]

83,172. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have a sponsor that I want you to talk to called Guardian Litigation. And what they do is they, they're not debt consolidators, but what they do, they're attorneys and they go and set up a plan with each of them. So it works a lot like debt consolidation, but it's not debt consolidation and it's a law firm. So you've got representation built in and they do a really good job on situations like yours. Now if you got $8,000, it's not, it's not worth messing with. We'll figure it out. But you got $80,000 on 16 accounts and this is really what they specialize in. Yeah.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And that website for you is guardianlit.com Ramsey Phillips. So at the end of this call, jump on there and they can at least help with that side of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

So me and my wife together, we have about. So me myself yearly is about 58,000. She's about 41,000 after taxes. We have not had our bank accounts together. We've had family account and separate accounts so that we're actually in the process of merging everything together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, Good for you. Well, you're starting to do some stuff. I'm proud of you. Good. Okay. Now how much other debt do you have other than the 83,000 on the credit cards?

[Caller]

So we have her car payment which is. She's taking care of that. No issues. We have a boat.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no, no, no. How much do you owe on her car?

[Caller]

Thank you. She has about 14,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

We.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're married to her. We have 14,000 on her car. Okay. And your boat?

[Caller]

19,000. It is up for sale currently. Got leads on it, looking at it this week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. What kind of boat?

[Caller]

The Carolina Skiff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good, good. That boat will sell. Okay, good.

[Caller]

Also got equipment, truck. My truck is paid for.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your truck worth?

[Caller]

I put it up that I'm afraid of. I actually put as a package hoping to sell everything in the equipment in one deal and kind of close out a lot of this debt. But I'm afraid that the truck is probably going to be in the 6 to $7,000 range. And I've got 20,000 of credit card debt in the truck with repairs over the last year and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you don't have anything, you don't have a lien against it right now of any kind?

[Caller]

Not that I'm aware of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And the equipment is what?

[Caller]

Skid steer, trailer attachments. I've listed everything in the fifty thousand dollar range and definitely will be taking a lot less than that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is that is that all used for work or just for your hobby stuff?

[Caller]

So I used to own a company. Sold it a few years back. Done really well, bought property, which is another thing I have. That's an asset that I've got up up. Been talking to people about selling it to clear it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you owe on the property?

[Caller]

Last week, nothing is paid for. Oh, right. About six years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's it worth?

[Caller]

I had an offer come through the mail the other day at 60,000. I feel like the property's worth more than that.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you think it's worth?

[Caller]

I spoke to. I feel like it's worth at least 80. The cabin and stuff, Family property. What is mentally messing with me right now is this is. I had it secured for my. My children, my sons, my father, family. It's a recreation property. And it's really kind of messed with me over the last few days of realizing I've got to liquidate. That's why the equipment, the boat, other assets that I've previously bought over the last couple years are up for sale. Trying to bring the cash flow in to clear it to keep the land. The guy I talked to said he made a mistake on the offer. And then once we talk more, he's like, oh, it's more than what I realized it was. We have a cabin, you have a pond and. And all that stuff. And he hasn't got back with me. That's kind of my last resort. But that would clear out 100 of everything. The equipment will clear out 90%.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much?

[Caller]

I agree with one large deck. 15 and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what are you hunting? You hunting on it or what?

[Caller]

We do. It's a hunting property. We don't get to go to it as much. Pretty much yearly we get there one week and then every couple weekends with fuel and stuff and can't afford to pay my bills. Can't afford to really go up there and maintain it. That's what the equipment was for. I was maintaining that property. Do a little tide job here and there, stuff like that.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got out over your skis. What happened?

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, well, here's the thing. You're not defined. Lots of people hunt deer with permission on other people's property. Most people hunt deer on other people's property with permission, not their own hunting property. So I'm with you that we try to dump everything else and keep this and keep it clear. That's fine. But your family heritage and legacy is not going to be ruined by not owning that 15 acres for deer hunting. It's just not. You got other things you can do, other ways you can do that, and you'll have a lot more money and a lot more freedom. But yeah, you just stacked up a bunch of stuff is what you did. Got yourself in a pinch.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Well, the best legacy to leave is you becoming debt free, you building wealth for your own family. And I mean, you still got a lot of time to do that. And so I like keeping this as a last resort. He's got kind of a get out of jail free card by selling this land if he has to, but sounds like he's doing the work to sell as much as he can and then use his future income to cash flow the remainder. And he could be out of this thing much sooner than a normal caller.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, because I'm looking at least $123,000 in credit card debt and say that's the equivalent of the land. How long have I got to stay in that in order to keep the land? Because in a very real sense, you're just paying that off to keep the land.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Yeah, it's kind of like a really expensive mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's really expensive.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

25% apron.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm with you, though. I agree. And Philip, what I love most about your stance on everything was that you've already started taking action. The boat's up for sale. The skid steer's up for sale. Might have to sell my truck, too. With it, We're looking at the offer on the land. We're combining our accounts. We've already got the thousand dollars set aside. So you're already making moves. You're going to be okay. You're going to work your way through this. You're not going to to lose it because you're a man of action.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Yeah. The willingness to sacrifice is the key determining factor for him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, exactly. And then if you get down to it and the smoke clears, you still need to sell the land. Sell it. You can, you can deer hunt somewhere else.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

As a dad of young kids, I'm starting to think a lot more about the world they're growing up in and how I'll help them make sense of it as they get older. And that's why I like World Watch, a video news service for preteens and teens. Because one thing I know for sure, if you don't teach your kids how to understand the world, somebody else will. And these days, that could be TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, influencers, or whoever happens to show up in their social media feed. World Watch's 10 minute videos help young people understand what's happening in the world through a Christian worldview without all the outrage, negativity and noise that is everywhere these days. The reporting is factual, engaging, and designed specifically for preteens and teens. And World Watch creates opportunities for something every family needs more of, meaningful conversations. Instead of just reacting to headlines, kids learn how to think about what's happening in the world. And parents get a chance to keep those conversations going at home. Because when my kids are old enough, I want them informed, not overwhelmed. And right now, you can get a 30 day free trial. Just go to Worldwatch News Ramsey or use promo code Ramsey to get started. That's Worldwatch News Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Foreign. App has its own fan base. Now, this app allows me to keep my budgeting goals organized. I love the projection on when we'll be debt free and my estimated net worth. It gives you something to work towards and gives you a light at the end of the tunnel. Hey, that's awesome. Hey, if you start everydollar for free, not only will you have the world's best budgeting app on your side, but you're gonna have Ramsey in your ear. We're gonna be teaching you the same stuff George and I would teach you as you go through the app. It's a personalized plan. We're gonna walk you through the baby steps. The fastest way out of debt, the fastest way into wealth. And it's free. Go to every dollar in the App Store or Google Play. Isaac is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Isaac. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well. Thank you for taking my call and forgive my nervousness.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how can we help?

[Caller]

I am recently divorced. And while I know what I need to pay legally according to the decree for alimony and child support, it. I don't know if it feels right morally, especially at its end in 2029.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You feel like you should pay more?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay.

[Caller]

The reason I say this right now, alimony and child Support Together is $2900 a month. But I am fearful that when it ends in October of 2029, then in this economy, she'll be left destitute or high and dry. And that I wouldn't be like, does that make sense? I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. That's unusually compassionate toward the ex. The what?

[Caller]

Do you make $106,000 a year? But just yesterday, I accepted an offer for 120, which I'm excited about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very nice. Good for you. Good new chapter, clean chapter in your life. And $2,900 a month for three years, right?

[Caller]

Yes. It started partway through last year, but it's going to go until October 2029.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how old is she and what is her career?

[Caller]

I know that she was a manager for a mold company a while back, but I don't know if she's working at all right now. She's just focused on raising the kids and homeschooling them and things like that. She is 37, I'm 36.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are the kids?

[Caller]

The youngest is 2 years old and the oldest is 6 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so the 2900 is gonna be largely child support, isn't it?

[Caller]

Not in Utah. I was told that the alimony portion is only $2,059 of it, and then that the remainder is child support.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I don't know what I'm talking about, except from years of experience dealing with this and it and because I don't know anything about Utah law and I'm not a divorce specialist, but typically, three children, when you make $100,000 a year, is not going to be 900 bucks a month. You might have those two numbers flipped. I might be wrong, but I'm guessing. But in most, and I will say in most states, you would at least have those two numbers flipped.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Did you say you have two kids?

[Caller]

Three children.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Three, two, six. And what was the other age?

[Caller]

Right in the middle. Three years old.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Okay, so three years from now you've got a five, six and nine year old and they'll be in school and she'll go back to work full time. Is that the plan?

[Caller]

I think that she would want, and I wouldn't hate for them to continue to be homeschooled, but my goal is if I can be debt free by 2029, when all of this ends takes place, then they will stay with me half the time. And I'm just trying to get to a point that I can eventually move into a place that they have room to live in as well. So that's my motivation to become debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm curious, what happened to your marriage?

[Caller]

We were married for six years. The best way I can describe it without going into a lot of detail, is I didn't feel needed or wanted. She bought a house in 2020, and I didn't know it until she told me afterwards, I didn't feel like we made decisions together and I couldn't. I gave the very best I could, but I just couldn't keep going.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. And yet you're talking to me about keeping going.

[Caller]

I guess so. I think that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, you know, so here's, here's an opinion of a guy, not an attorney. I don't know what I'm talking about as an attorney and not even a financial opinion. I think this lady's going to have to have a career. She's now a single mom with three kids and she gets child support and she's probably not gonna be at home on your dole. You're not gonna wanna take care of her for the next 20 years so she can sit at home and homeschool. That's not a realistic scenario. If you wanna do that. It would be highly unusual to the point I would call it weird. And I'm not sure it's good. And I'm not sure it's good. The very reason you left there, you need to leave there and then she needs to go on and make her, she likes making decisions by herself. So now she gets to. And so, you know, I, I would not pay somebody $3,000 a month so they could sit at home and homeschool for 20 years, you know, or, or whatever it is. 18 years for a 2 year old. I mean, I'm not, No, I would not. I don't think that's, that would be unusual. I would make other arrangements for the children, I'd do other stuff, but I'm not going to just support her and her have. No. It's not good for her to have no life. And that's assuming she doesn't a divorced woman to have zero career and be homeschooling the kids and living off of the ex. That's not dignity. That's not good for her. She needs to become a person of

[George Campbell Ramsey]

a standalone entity and have some independence because at that point she's co dependent on an.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. I don't want my ex husband. I mean, would you want your little sister's ex husband supporting her who could

[George Campbell Ramsey]

pull the rug out of you anytime?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No, I don't want that. I don't want that for. I don't want that for the ex. I don't want it for the kids. I don't want to model that for the children as some kind of a, you know. Well, the marriage didn't work out, but we went ahead and paid you. No, no, I don't. No, no, you can do it if you want. It's your money. But that's my opinion. And you'll always get that when you call here because I'm an expert on my opinion. And I also would check your numbers because I think your numbers are inverted. I think it's $2,000 a month in child support and 900amonth in alimony. I don't think you got away. Maybe. Maybe there's something different in Utah. I don't know. No. All right. That brings us to Lucy in Chicago. Hey, Lucy, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How are you doing?

[Caller]

Good. Better than I deserve.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

I'm currently in baby step two, kind of pay off my debt. But my question is more regarding term life insurance. During COVID I added my aunt as an authorized signer on my credit card, and she was going through a hard time. And I also co signed for her apartment, which she still has. She racked up about $18,000 in credit card debt on my card, and I wanted to know if getting life term, life insurance in case she may, you know, pass before she can pay off the debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, for sure she's going to pass before she pays off the debt because she's never going to pay off the debt. Yeah, she hadn't paid it off yet. I mean, it's Covid, six years ago.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, I mean, we're not going to sit around, wait on her. What's your income?

[Caller]

Well, I make about 85,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt do you have? Not counting this. $18,000 in debt. That's yours.

[Caller]

So I. I had about 53,000 recently. I've been listening to you. So I've sold some stocks that I had in an ESP plan and I brought my debt down to about 20. About 20,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. Well, you got 18,000 more in credit card debt. I would add to that list.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And take her off that credit card

[Dave Ramsey]

immediately and cut the credit card off, turn it off immediately, cancel the card. No more charges aren't allowed by anybody, you or her. And then when the lease comes up for renewal, I'm not going to. I'm not going to stay on it as a coast hunter, so time for her to get on her own. It's been six freaking years.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Rachel Cruz]

Let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank? Because if you're still earning next to nothing on your savings, you need to check out Fairwinds Credit Union. And I know what you're thinking. It might sound like a hassle. Moving your direct deposit, updating bills, getting a new debit card feels like a lot. But here's what most people don't realize. Staying where you are could be costing you hundreds of dollars every year. Y', all, the average savings account pays less than half a percent. So let's say for example, you got $20,000 saved. You might earn around $70 a year, but with a Fair Winds High Yield Savings account earning 3% APY or more, that same money could earn you over $600. And that's real money that you can use towards the baby step. So don't let temporary comfort keep you stuck. Check out the Smart Bundle from Fairwinds Credit Union. You get a High Yield savings account, a no fee checking account and the Ramsey Beweird debit card. Go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more and make the switch today. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you got a money question and can't get through, head over to our [e-mail] and use the Ask Ramsey AI tool. It's built and trained on only Ramsey data. Three, four years of this show answering questions fed into it. All the books George and I and all the others have written fed into it. All the articles on Ramsey fed into it. And so you will get. And we're constantly putting more Ramsey data and guess what? There's no other trash from the Internet fed into it. So it's impossible for it to answer as poorly as Reddit would, which is

[George Campbell Ramsey]

what AI is actually pulling from. Shockingly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, or TikTok or whatever. So if you want a Ramsey answer that has only Ramsey data in the AI tool, it's going to give you. It's going to be almost as smart alec as I am. It's that good. So check it out. Ask Ramsey. It's completely free. And so if you're sitting having a conversation over the 4th of July with your relatives or something and you have an argument, let's go Ask Ramsey. We'll settle it.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

That's your ammo right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

We'll settle it. We'll settle the argument right here. We'll know what Ramsey would say and you'll get the same answer George would have given or I would have given or whatever. So ask RamseyAmseySolutions.com if you're on podcast or YouTube, you can click the link in the description. Sarah's in Charleston, South Carolina. Hi Sarah. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey. Hi. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[Caller]

Newly married? I'm married a year and I just learned about my husband's gambling problem and as far as I know, everything in the bank account is gone. It's in the red. And I don't know the best solution. I do. I have intercepted the mail and seen the debt on the credit cards. I want to say it's close to 30,000. So I don't know if filing for bankruptcy, trying to do the debt snowball or getting with the debt management program is the best solution.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you guys?

[Caller]

44.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's he gambling on?

[Caller]

I think it says slot. Slot machine apps and sports.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sports, yeah. Did you say 44?

[Caller]

Correct. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what does he make?

[Caller]

Somewhere around 70,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

I'm a stay at home mom. We don't share finances, so I'm completely dependent on whatever he gives me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you've been married two years, so you have a two year old.

[Caller]

We do have a two year old, but we have only been married just over a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I see.

[Caller]

Okay. And we have other children. Not together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you have kids. How many kids do you have other than this child?

[Caller]

I have a 19 year old.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what were you doing for a living before you got married a year ago and became a stay at home mom with no access to money?

[Caller]

I was in manufacturing. Okay.

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, Sarah, I'm so sorry. Nowhere in this story so far have you said how repentant he is and that he's going to counseling and he's joined Gamblers Anonymous and he's turning over all the spending to you and he's giving up all rights to all money, which is what an addict has to do if they want to stay married. So far I've not heard any of that.

[Caller]

We have discussed putting making his direct deposit go into an account with just my name. He has been in contact with somebody from our church who runs the men's meeting that is addiction based. They haven't got together yet, but they have been in conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

There's talk. I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's talk. So let me give you some harsh realities that you guys have to work through, and I hope you can work through them all right? But I'm not an expert on addictions, but I have worked with addicts for 35 years because 100% of addicts have financial trouble. Okay? 100% of addicts also lie and manipulate. It is the nature of the beast. And so you cannot trust a thing that's being said. The only thing you can trust are the actual actions. And so he's got two and a half minutes to get plugged into the next Gambler's Anonymous meeting and two and a half minutes to have the pastor at your doorstep, sitting in your living room coaching the two of you on whether or not this marriage is going to survive. Not two and a half weeks, two and a half minutes. And he needs to turn over 100% of all debt and all finances over to you. He has zero control of anything as a starting point. Otherwise, he's a lying, manipulative addict and you're an enabler and your life is going to go down the toilet. There's no middle ground with this, folks. The fastest growing addiction right now in America is online porn. The second fastest growing addiction that's tearing families apart is online gambling. And sports betting has gone from 5 billion to 150 billion. And it's men 25 to 45 years old. It's completely gutted the male portion of our population. And we think it's cute. With some guy holding a balloon at DraftKings or MGM. It's not cute. It's screwing America over. And you're sitting in the middle of it with a baby. So, darlin, I want you to get really angrier than you are right now and tougher than you are right now for the survival of yourself and your children. And this guy has got to regain trust over the next many years that he stays completely sober from gambling sites of any kind and any other addictive behaviors because he's plugged into a good therapist, into a good church, and into Gamblers Anonymous, all three. And he has no control over anything except to work all the time and bring you the checks. And then I think you can walk out of this with the baby steps. But if you don't do all of that. Exactly. That way, if he hedges on anything, he's electing to exit the marriage. Because that's what's going to happen eventually. Eventually you're going to get tired of this. The third time you pay off all the debts because he lies. If I had him on the phone, I would call him a liar. Because 100% of addicts lie. You following me here?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm worried about you, honey. I'm worried about those babies.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Access to his smartphone because you need to get rid of that thing today and get him a dumb phone that has no apps on it. All he can do is make phone

[Dave Ramsey]

calls, phone calls and texts to you saying how much I'm working and pulling up this mess I made.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

You need to pull both of your credit reports tonight. Go to annualcreditreport.com pull them for both of you from all three bureaus to get a full picture of what this mess is before we can begin cleaning it up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because if you treat this like it's a sweet little boy that made a 13 year old mistake and he's just really sorry, you're going to be broke the rest of your life. Because this is nothing sweet about this. This is evil to its core. And you're going to have to. You guys are going to have to. He's going to have to treat it like he just had an affair and he never sees the old girlfriend again or we're done. Because I don't need another girlfriend in here. And that's what this gambling is. It's his mistress. You gotta treat it that way. Okay? Are you hearing me? Do I sound like I'm over the top to you? I hope I do.

[Caller]

Yeah, I understand why.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Cause I really want you to hear this because I've worked with these folks for years and these guys that sort of kind, oh, I'm just gonna quit. I don't need anybody's help. I'm just gonna quit. I can quit anytime I want. Says every addict. Everybody's ever done cocaine. I can quit whenever I want. Line, right? Not a chance. Unbelievable. If you've had your phone two or three years, there's a chance it's unlocked. So bringing your own phone is a great way to unlock savings on your wireless bill. You can switch to Boost Mobile to get unlocked, bring your own device and save big. See, the big wireless companies count on you staying right where you are, paying more than you should every single month. They make it sound complicated to switch. It's not, by the way. And meanwhile, your bill keeps going up. That's not inflation. That's them taking advantage of you. But Boost Mobile is different. They make it simple. You bring your phone, keep your number and get unlimited wireless for just 25amonth. And that price is locked in forever. No contracts, no hidden fees, no surprises. So if you're tired of wasting money on your phone bill, this is your chance to do something about it. Go to boostmobile.com Ramsey get unlocked and keep more of your hard earned money. That's boostmobile.com Ramsey $25 forever requires customers

[George Campbell Ramsey]

to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited.

[Dave Ramsey]

Joel is with us in Albuquerque. Hey, Joel, what's up?

[Caller]

Hello, Dave. How are you today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

Okay. We recently bought a house to fix up and flip in. Which we did. And we did do it. We did do a real estate contractor. Owner, finance. My question to you is this contract is set to go off in five years with the balloon payment. But we also have an option to actually keep that real estate contract going for the next 30 years. Am I better off getting the five year and putting it in a mutual fund, or am I better off leaving that as is?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're probably not getting 12% on it, are you?

[Caller]

No, six and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, then you'd be better off putting it in a mutual fund if it got 12%.

[Caller]

Right? Yeah, just. I see that payment come in and that, that, I mean, if you put

[Dave Ramsey]

it in at 12%, they send you a payment, dude.

[Caller]

True.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mutual fund is set up a mutual fund to pay you 6%. Making 12.

[Caller]

Okay. I was just always trying to do that little bucket system of I have this bucket. I have this bucket. I have this bucket. That's what my thought was.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, I don't know what bucket system we're talking about.

[Caller]

So, like, I have my. And so if I have a downturn in the market, I always have this. It's a constant for my retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I see. So you want to be diversified. That's what you're saying? You want to not have all your money in one place.

[Caller]

Right. Just in case we have a downturn in the market or something like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but if you're making 6% on your money, I mean, you could put that in high yield savings account and almost make that and be fully liquid, but on this contract, you're stuck. You have no access to the money whatsoever.

[Caller]

So. So the five years is better. And then get it in the brokerage account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I never carry back paper when I sell real estate for that reason. I don't want the money trapped at a low interest rate.

[Caller]

Okay, okay. All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Easy enough. Thank you, sir. Appreciate that.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

It's an interesting discussion. And what are your thoughts on owner financing as a general strategy?

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't do it.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And seller financing, would that be a different.

[Dave Ramsey]

Seller financing is owner financing.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The seller carries back the paper. That's owner financing. It's the same thing. The owner carries back the paper and. Meaning that you pay them a payment instead of giving them money.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

So instead of going to the bank, I go to Dave and Dave says, well, I'll loan you the money at six and a half percent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you're making 6.5% on your money, and you should be making a lot more than that.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Now you take the risk that the bank would take because you're the lender.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Well, I mean, you have to foreclose if they don't pay. If you're going to do that, you might as well just have a renter. At least you can get them out. You don't have to go through a foreclosure. I mean, you can make more than six and a half percent renting it, cash on cash. Right. And so I can take this exact same house, put a renter in it, make more money and have, you know, and not have to do a foreclosure. I can just do an eviction and

[George Campbell Ramsey]

the money's not locked up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly, exactly. So now I can't think of in this interest rate environment where, you know, where your S&P 500 is averaging upward of 12% then I don't. 10% plus to 12, whatever in there. I'm not thinking why I would carry back paper at 6. Doesn't make any sense to me at all. No, I would not do that. And here's the thing. You have all of your money invested in a single individual consumer, not a

[George Campbell Ramsey]

company that's even riskier.

[Dave Ramsey]

Meaning that little Joe and Susie over here, we bet the whole deal on their ability to keep a job. Yee. And I'm only making 6% on that. That's a lot of risk for 6%, so. No, I'll pass on that one. Thomas is in Canada. Hi Thomas, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm well, sir. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I recently just got a brand new job and went up in income. And my girlfriend has just recently gotten a job close to where we live as well. I really love this woman quite a lot. Sorry, I'm a little nervous.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Caller]

And I'm looking to propose to her by next year. And I'm. I currently have $207,000 left on my mortgage, soon to be our mortgage. And then I also have $2,000 in consumer credit card debt and I'm wanting to pay that off. Long story short, my question is how much money should I be saving when paying off a pretty minimal amount of credit card debt? Just want your opinion on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make now at your new job?

[Caller]

I make. So I've just. This is my, I think my second month in with, with my new role. I currently make, I would say I'm on track, about $82,000. Good for you. Good for you.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

You'll pay this credit card debt off with the next paycheck?

[Caller]

Yeah, yes, I'm. I'm trying to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then there will be no need to worry about saving money. Just pay the credit card off. And then talk about saving money. Then you talk about saving for a ring.

[Caller]

Yeah. I'm saying, yes, sir, I'm saving for a ring. Yeah. I'd like to get. I know, I know you folks at Ramsey have sort of preached, I think. I think a month's worth of salary.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Is that what you're gonna do?

[Caller]

Like that? I mean, this girl rocks my world, Dave. So I'm trying to do more, but, you know, she means a lot to me and she makes me feel really special. And, you know, I've been through a lot of junk in my life and she's.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's sweet. The ring has nothing to do with that.

[Caller]

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, I know.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

If she's going, hey, was this two or three months of salary, I'd like to know. Then you married the wrong woman.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And there's no correlation between the size of the diamond and the probability of the marriage lasting.

[Caller]

Fair enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

Zero. All the other stuff, there's correlation between all the times you told me how great this girl is in the last five minutes. There's a correlation between that and your marriage lasting. If you keep doing that over and over for 44 years, you'll be sitting where I am. So. Yeah. And by the way, during that time, you can replace and upgrade these diamonds. I mean, Sharon's got one the size of a headlight now, but it started out with a little chip, a little tiny, little sparkle chip. Not even 0.23 carats. This is not even a. You can't even see the orange on the carrot, it's so small. I mean, this is a tiny. It's in the safe because we don't want it to be lost because it's so small. And so that was the engagement ring 44 years ago. So I think one month is going to be awesomeness. And I want you to study diamonds a little bit because they're absolutely useless as an investment, but they're a great thing to give as a gift to your wife. That's great, but don't believe all this crap that they go up in value. I've been buying them for 40 years. None of them have ever gone up in value.

[Caller]

Sounds good.

[Dave Ramsey]

We got a bunch of them. We got a bunch of them, but none of them went up in value. They're just all swi. Sharon wants it. That was that simple. And so that's what you're going to do. But, yeah, start out with a one month and you can upgrade later. And then you guys start stacking cash. And don't Wait till next year to propose. Honey, it's freaking June. Painter. Get off the ladder.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And it won't take you long if you can pay off two grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long y' all been dating?

[Caller]

We've been dating for approximately year and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. You're perfect. Have at it, bro. Let's get engaged. Let's get this done.

[Caller]

Yeah, for sure. I got one more question. So we want it. We're fully aligned financially, or about 90%, I would say. We're looking to put finances together. What's sort of the best avenue to go about that? I want to have, like, one checking account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not until you're married.

[Caller]

Not until we're married. No, no, no. We haven't done that yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay.

[Caller]

When? This is after.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It's pretty simple. You get one checking account.

[Caller]

Got it?

[George Campbell Ramsey]

What I did was just. I. She closed hers down, and then I added her to mine and made it a joint. It was that simple. Just went down to the bank and did that. Okay, so one joint checking. You can have a high yield savings account for your emergency fund and other savings goals. You can check out Fairwinds.org Ramsey to get their smart bundle, which has all that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And from this point. From that point, the point that there's a ring on the finger and we're married forward. Everybody's name is on everything.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Paychecks all flow into that one checking account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Until you reach the point that I did a couple of years ago where my name is now on nothing.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Dave owns nothing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, apparently some people's hobby is to sue Dave Ramsey. So Dave's. Dave's a pauper. He doesn't own anything. Sharon owns it all. It's awesome. And good luck with sue and her.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

What an M. Night Shyamalan twist for that poor person who goes, I'm going after Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's penniless. He's broke.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

You'll be okay, Dave. I'm here for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

George. George. You'll sign me a check, won't you?

[George Campbell Ramsey]

I'll. I'll spare you five bucks if you need it. You go down to the store, you

[Dave Ramsey]

spot me a ride in a Tesla.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

You wouldn't dare.

[Dave Ramsey]

Give you a ride down at the market, Dave.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

That's a liability.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can catch on fire.

[Caller]

That.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Arianna is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Arianna. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So me and my husband have been working on, like, the baby steps. We've been budgeting pretty much our whole marriage and we're finally at the point where we're like trying to build up our emergency fund. We're debt free. And I am just looking at our budget and looking for like anything we can do to be saving more and to build up our emergency fund as like, fast as possible. And looking at it, the only thing that I can see that like we can move around is our rent and just how much it is. So we bring in a probably about 3,500 to 4,000amonth. And our rent is 1950 right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. And you've been able to pull off all this while paying 50% of your income and rent?

[Caller]

Yes. And I mean, we are. We still have a margin of about 300 that we're paying towards our emergency fund every month. But obviously we're wanting to have a few, like more than a few thousand in our emergency fund and hopefully the next three years. And so 300 is just not going to cut it. And so we're in a community right now. I'm a stay at home mom. And we also only have one car. That's probably another reason why we've been able to pull it off. But because we only have one car, obviously my husband takes that to work and I can sometimes use it, but I have a really good community of other moms here in our neighborhood that are all within like walking distance. And so I guess I'm just trying to decide. We're trying to decide if giving up that, like, because obviously my husband will be fine if we move. But giving up that, like for me and for my sanity and even for my daughter, like leaving her friends and things like that, if that is worth it to be able to build our emergency savings faster.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, here's the problem. You do not have any disposable income. It's what economists call it. You don't have any margin much. To be able to build your life. To be able to build a life.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And because you're paying. And the worst part is it's not even a house payment. You're giving it away in rent.

[Caller]

That's true.

That's a great point.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

So think about saving a down payment. It would take you guys decades at this point with just a couple hundred bucks to spare for sure.

[Caller]

And to give some context in the next. So my husband's also in school right now, and so once he's done with school, we'll be making a little bit more. And then we also plan to get into we want to own a Chick Fil? A. That's what my husband does. He manages a Chick Fil?

A right now.

And we want to franchise and own one. And so our goal would be to get in a program where we would be making about 10,000 more than we're making now, but we wouldn't be charged any, like, travel fees or rent, because they would be just basically sending us all over the country. And so, obviously, we know that this isn't so sustainable for the rest of our life, but for the next three years, it's like, okay, like, we're going to be able to save a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's he in school?

[Caller]

A business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, he doesn't have to have a business degree to do a Chick Fil? A deal.

[Caller]

You don't have to have a business degree. You do. It just gets you ahead to have a bachelor's degree. And we just have decided that a business degree is going to be not necessarily helpful in getting one, but being helpful in, like, running a good end.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll go along. I'll go along with that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the question you ask yourself is, is renting here now with this amount of money in this situation going to take me where I want to be 10 years from now? And all the things that you described for me were out there in the future, and none of them had to do with you being in that house?

[Caller]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I want you to go have that future that you clearly outlined, the goals you set, the vision that you two have, that includes owning a home, and if you need to purchase a $2,000 car and come back and visit the old neighborhood for a while, I would do that before I would stay there paying $2,000 a month.

[Caller]

Really? Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, you know, for your. To visit your children and your children's friends and your friends that you've made in the neighborhood, that would be fine. But you've been able to build community there. You will be able to build community wherever you go, because that's who you are. It's not the low. It's not a function of the location.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And doesn't sound like his income is going to double in the next year or two.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Which is the only way to make this rent sustainable.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just not. It's not sustainable. It's not going to take you where you want to go. Instead, it's holding you back from where you want to go, which is why you called and why you wanted us to say what you were thinking out loud.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

She needed the confirmation. Sometimes that's what we do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sometimes that's what we do. Anthony's in Orange County. Hey, Anthony, what's up?

[Caller]

How you doing, Dave? Raz, thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

I just have a quick question. So my wife unfortunately was diagnosed with a brain tumor in 2023. Lucky enough, she got the surgery, everything was successful. But she is considered as a disability now and she's not able to work. Last year I didn't know that she had a 401k. It's kind of like a 401k but I forgot the name of it. But we found out that she has $100,000 in that 401k. So we have no debt now, thanks to you. I follow your steps. I was able to clear up all my debt. I just recently paid off $15,000 debt clear. And I have about $10,000 saved in my savings account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Well done.

[Caller]

We were thinking, we were thinking of taking that money out and we were able to take it out penalty free, the company told us, due to her disability.

[Dave Ramsey]

But not tax free money.

[Caller]

Well, not tax free. Correct. But this. But the fee for taking it out early, it will be weighed. What do you make that money? I make about 140 to 150,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're going to pull, you're going to lose $30,000 of this hundred thousand in taxes then, correct?

[Caller]

Yes, that is correct. And we were thinking of putting some of that money, I was thinking about taking it out in a year because I still have a one year lease in my apartment. And we were thinking about putting down payment for a home since we're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

And Dave, I want to borrow. Dave, I want to borrow money at 30% interest to, for a down payment on my new house.

[Caller]

I see what you're saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Probably not.

[Caller]

So what can I do with that money then? If I save money for a few more years, I would roll it to

[Dave Ramsey]

a Roth IRA or roll it to, roll it to a traditional IRA and later to a Roth IRA in some good growth stock mutual funds and let it grow. Is she permanently disabled?

[Caller]

Yes, she was considered permanently disabled.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, that's not the question I'm asking. I'm sorry. Do you believe that she is going to be disabled for the rest of her life?

[Caller]

I'm hoping no. By what I'm looking at, she's progressing and doing a lot better. So I'm hoping. I'm hoping no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's what I was hoping too. Okay. And so what I, what I want is I don't want to destroy the retirement nest egg that she's built that'll

[George Campbell Ramsey]

double every seven years if you just leave it alone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And, and, and especially with the struggles medically that she's had, I want to be sure that money is there. And so, no, I'm gonna. You guys have done a really good job, Anthony, and I want you to keep doing it. Leave this money alone. Finish your emergency fund and now start saving for your down payment. You make good money, you're making better and better money as you go along. She's healing and going to head towards making better money, we hope. And so, you know, you got a real good five year vision right here. But don't, don't, don't borrow money at 30% interest to do this.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave Ramsey here. For more than 30 years I've been talking to folks on the air and I can tell you that most people are broke not because they don't make enough money, but because they don't have a plan. You need to give every dollar you earn a job because when you do that, something changes. You stop guessing, you stop worrying, you stop stressing. Our everydollar budgeting app will show you how to find extra ca, pay off debt and finally start winning with money. But most people won't do it. They'll keep living paycheck to paycheck, keep hoping things will change without making a change. It's time to say enough is enough. It's time to take control of your money. It's time to start your every dollar budget for free today. Go download it in the app store or Google Play. If your private student loans are in default. Well, when you've fallen behind so far that the loan's considered unpaid, well, why Refi might be able to help. Why Refi helps borrowers in tough situations. Situations. Explore low fixed rate refinancing options that fit their budget. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Today's question comes from Spencer in Arizona. I moved in with my fiance over two years ago. I've paid for all of our groceries, gym memberships and household items in addition to all my personal expenses. Also, I added him to my medical benefits for a year and a half and never asked him to reimburse me for that. He covers our rent and utilities. We are now discussing marriage. But he never clearly communicated his financial expectations before I moved in. And his expectations keep changing. How do I Objectively determine whether this is a healthy financial partnership before getting married. Easy. It's not. It is not a healthy financial partnership I solved.

[Dave Ramsey]

Called a moving target.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

It's just been. This is so disjointed from the start, moving in with someone you're not married to. I'm gonna pay over here, but then I'm gonna just cover this. I added him to my benefits over here. Never asked him for reimbursement. It sounds like I'm like, I'm going to HR here. This does not sound like love to me. Nothing says love like I need a reimbursement for my purchases. Oh, gosh.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

I mean, our stance is pretty simple. Combine your whole life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's only when you're married. Once you're married, not when you're shacking up. The problem is you're trying to act like you're married and you're not. And that's what you get yourself into. It's almost impossible mathematically and relationally to pull off what you're trying to pull off. And so resentment will build on one side.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Long term.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Just if you keep in mind, just because you sleep with them, they're still a roommate. Okay. Just treat it. You know, you just have to. It's a roommate. So you have to decide who's buying the mustard. When you have a roommate in college, you know, we have to. Whose mustard is that in the refrigerator

[George Campbell Ramsey]

where you each buy your own and label.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you drink my beer? You know, that's what you do in roommate college, right? When you're in college, you're like, where did my stuff go? Oh, you ate my stuff. Cause it's my stuff. Cause you're my roommate. It's not your stuff, it's not our stuff, and it's not our stuff. And so that's what you're doing. And people want to play married but not be married, and it doesn't work. And the data is now in. Ten years later, you're in really bad financial shape when you do this. So the numbers are horrendous on what happens to people that are not married and play marriage 15 years later. Financially, they don't build wealth because they're fighting over who bought the mustard.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And do I want to re. Embarrass.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Well, this thing reeks. Re. Embarrassed codependency.

[Dave Ramsey]

Enabling word just bothers me.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Resentment. Nothing about this is. Sounds fun. So I would do a reset of this entire relationship if it's even going to work out long term.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I think we need to start fresh and sit down and see a marriage counselor and say, all right, if we were married, we would be combining 100% of everything and there wouldn't be a mine and a yours and an ours. There would only just be ours.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Much simpler than that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then how is that going to feel and how's that going to sound and do you want to sign up for that? And oh, by the way, when it's ours, here's what we are going to do. We are going to be on a budget every month that we both have a vote on and we're both going to agree to and we are both going to stick to it. Oh, and we are going to live on less than we make and we are not going into debt and we are going to have an emergency fund savings and we are going to be saving towards the house and we are going to be investing in retirement. And if we aren't doing that, there isn't going to be a we.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

That's a healthy financial partnership right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get aligned, get aligned on this stuff. The number one cause of divorce and money fights in North America is money problems and not being aligned. And so if, listen, if you're 16 or you got a 16 year old or 18 year old, have them just start studying marriage statistics a little bit. You know what, statistically, what makes a wonderful spouse? If the number one thing that causes marriages to end is money problems, then we should solve for that. Avoid on the second date like, you know, oh, you're a ditz and you're going to spend money like you're in Congress. Okay, you're out. You know, you should solve for that. You know, and if you think your mother's going to live with us, we should solve for that. If we're going to raise children and the children are going to be in charge of the house and the adults are not going to be the inmates are going to run the asylum. Then we should solve for that in the interim period prior to marriage because these are the, you know and you know, I worship trees and you worship Jesus. We should solve for that.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

What are the four things you mentioned

[Dave Ramsey]

that causes religion in laws, kids and money? And all the data says if you're aligned on those four things prior to marriage, you have a very high probability of your marriage being successful. But very few people that have different religions and they both deeply believe in them make it and very few people who are, you know, I don't believe that our children ought to have anything. They should be able to tell us what to do. And then you're not going to that. You know, we're wrong. Wrong person got the wrong one here. This would be a long life. Smart aleck kids.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

You mentioned that if they graduate high school and get married before they move in together. There's also data on that as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So studies laying right here. So this has been studied by like six different pieces of research. It's called the success sequence. If you do this in this order, the numbers are amazing. First, before you do anything else, you graduate from high school, then you get a full time job, and only then do you get married. And only then do you have kids. And only then do you move in together. If you do it in that order. 97% of millennials who completed those three steps in order, the success sequence achieve middle income or higher by their mid-30s. And only 3% are in poverty. Wow. So 97% of millennials that are in poverty didn't do the success sequence in order. And it was a pretty simple, it was a pretty low bar. You know, don't have babies before you get married, don't get married before you graduate from high school and have a full time job.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

97%, that's a low bar.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're not asking you to get a graduate degree, high school, before you make babies. And you got a 97% probability.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And stack that with your four pieces over here with the religion in the kids money. Now you've got marital success and financial success.

[Dave Ramsey]

And 80% of the millionaires that we interviewed are married.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Interesting. So it's going to be better to build wealth together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Only 62% of the public is married.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Interesting. So marriage increases your chances of becoming wealthy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Correlation causation. We can argue the point in the research, but the research is there. We know the data. The data is actually there. And of those 80% that are married, 84% say that a quality alignment with their spouse is why we were able to become millionaires. Not we didn't argue, but we had alignment on the big stuff. Not, we didn't disagree about whether to buy that car. That's not what we're talking about. We are talking about we're not borrowing money. We are talking about we're going to be generous. We're going to give to our church. We are talking about we are going to do these things. And we both believe that. And we both are putting that in the budget and we both agree to that. And when you line all that up, folks, in America today, you can become wealthy. I mean, it really the biggest thing that holds people back is they just do stupid stuff.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Do it in the wrong time, the wrong time.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's like. And then go, I don't know. Why can't I want to be reimbursed for my medical benefits? Because you got it out of order. You know the old marriage vows used to say, in sickness and in health, for richer, for poor, and unto thee, all my worldly goods I pledge. I'm all in, baby. I'm all in. You're all in. We're all in. As Deloney says, ride or die. Here we go. All in. Not like I think we ought to play house and see who buys the mustard.

[Caller]

Sam,

[Dave Ramsey]

You should not feel uncertain about investing. And you don't have to. That's why we created Investing Essentials, a two night virtual event where George Camel and I walk you through my playbook for investing and wealth planning. We'll simplify everything from 401ks and mutual funds to passing on wealth so you can invest with confidence. Tickets start at $199. Get yours today at ramseysolutions.com events or click the link in the show notes. The ride insurance acts as a shield as a defense, while your offense is your investing. If disaster strikes, your wallet needs protection. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage if you're getting ripped off and gives you a personalized action plan with clear next steps to get the right coverage in place and the wrong coverage gone. Go to ramseysolutions.com checkup and take the free coverage checkup. Sean's in Tallahassee. Hi, Sean, how are you?

[Caller]

Good.

How are y' all doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I need some help about how to talk to my dad about not taking out a HELOC on our family property.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who's our family property? His house.

[Caller]

It would be me. No, it's my wife and I live in the house on a pine tree farm outside Tallahassee, and my brother and his wife actually live at the back end. And my dad, he lives in Atlanta, but he's having, I guess, some cash flow problems with his construction company. And he called me the other day asking if I would sign a document so he could take out a HELOC against the property. And I've listened to the show long enough. I know that's a bad idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I'm sorry. Who's. Who owns the property?

[Caller]

Well, it's actually all of us. It's a trust, so we're all on the Deed. My brother, my dad, myself, and my mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

I see. Okay. And. And who put it into the trust?

[Caller]

My dad. He. He bought the property outright six years ago, kind of as a engagement president for my wife and I. And then my brother and his wife moved out about two years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. How does that figure into your engagement gift?

[Caller]

He just. They just wanted to help us get a head start, not have a payment or anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no, no, no, no. How does your brother coming into your engagement gift work?

[Caller]

Oh, no, I was just filling, you know, filling in while he's out here, but that doesn't really matter.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it does matter. I'm trying to figure out what your brother is this. It was the intent to give you this piece of property. Then how did your brother get into it?

[Caller]

The intent was to, yes, I guess, give us the property. And then there. It's a 20 acre pine farm. So he's just building a house at the other end instead of buying a new house or some, you know, moving in somewhere else.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y' all have really blurred lines about who owns what and why in your family. So your dad gave you an engagement gift of a 20 acre pine farm, but he put it in your brother's name along with his own name, so it didn't really give it to you. And then your brother moves onto the property that you were given as an engagement gift. Am I understanding this right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now he wants to take out a HELOC on it because now he's got trouble financially.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what is the land worth?

[Caller]

Last I looked, about 230,000. Mm. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And are you farming the tree farm on it?

[Caller]

Yeah, we're taking care of the pines. It's just a pine tree farm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just a. What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm a general contractor down here in

[Dave Ramsey]

Florida, like he is back in Atlanta. So you make a living apart from this piece of property?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, well, the thing that I'm struggling with and giving you a straight answer on your. And the reason I keep asking all these questions to get clarity is I'm trying to figure out what to tell you to do, because obviously. No, I'm going to tell you to not sign the heloc. Okay. And if you don't sign it, there is no heloc.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

But your dad is confused about who owns the property, or you are, because actually the three of you own it together, but it was given to you as a gift, but not really. It's so confusing. You follow me?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So my point is, is that this is. This is what. What's going to happen 20 years from now when y' all sell it or 10 years from now or 10 days from now when you sell it. Is it going to be three ways? Your property you were given as an engagement split three ways.

[Caller]

We did discuss that briefly a while back. And essentially he would just get back his initial investment, and then my wife and I would get any. Any profit.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what about your brother?

[Caller]

Well, he would just get the acreage that his house is on in the back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so you platted that off. It's no longer part of the deal.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's actually been platted off and dated to your brother. No. Is your brother still on the stinking trust?

[George Campbell Ramsey]

There's a lot of hesitation here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're making this up as you're telling me just like your dad does. So. No, this is. This is not working, dude. This is going to end poorly is where I'm going. It was conceived poorly, and it's going to end poorly. And this simple question of whether to take out a HELOC on this is exposing how badly this deal was done because none of you know what's happening here. Well, my brother, well, my dad, it's all over the place. And so what I would say, if I'm you, is I want clarity out of all of this, and clarity is going to involve written details as to what happens to this land and who has power over it and so forth. So I have given my children gifts. My name is no longer on them when I give them the gift. Thus, it is called a gift. Your dad is confused about that.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And Dave, the HELOC to help the struggling business feels like a slippery slope

[Dave Ramsey]

of, oh, it's going to go down, and then they're going to lose both

[George Campbell Ramsey]

things because it's not really solving a problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm the contracting business. Welcome to a contra. Welcome to a business that goes broke

[George Campbell Ramsey]

fairly often while putting his family at risk.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Because that he lock is. I mean, if.

[Dave Ramsey]

But his dad. But his dad put up all the money for the tree farm to start with, so. And he kept his name on it, so it kind of feels like he still owns it because he kind of still does, because he kind of didn't really give it as a gift when he was engaged. He kind of kept his name on it. Not kinda he did. And then he put his brother's name on it so he could have the back $40 back 40ft or whatever's in the back.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Would it be astute to go, hey, if he had the money to pay his dad for his portion to just buy him out of his quote unquote investment portion, make this cleaner, Give him the money to be done with this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay? Sean has his own career as a contractor and his brother has this. This is going to end poorly. So what would I do in this situation now that I've put all my sarcasm into this pot and stirred it here, I would suggest to dad and brother that we sell this property and we divvy it up now and dad can use that for his cash flow problems and I'll take my portion of it as my engagement and brother can have his portion as the back corner. Or we'll actually go do the plat now and give the brother the back corner and dad and I'll split the difference after dad gets his money back or whatever the deal is. But dad needs his money and this is a messed up deal that's going to go sideways.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

It solves multiple problems.

[Dave Ramsey]

It solves going to end up in relationship problems because it was never done properly from day one. And so if I were in your shoes, I would suggest dad instead of stewing it, he like, why don't we just sell it and you get your money out, I'll get my money out and you know, we'll be clean then because this is not gonna go well. And Sean, you may go, you may be used to this cause you grew up with it, but your wife is gonna end up so pissed at her father in law before this is over and it's not gonna be good for your family. So yeah, I think I would just sell it and get my money out. Everybody get their money out and everybody be happy and go their separate ways. Yeah.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Because untangle this.

[Dave Ramsey]

When we are tangled, we are tangled. And I don't think I'm, I'm, I'm just, I'm 100% sure dad's not gonna be okay when, when, when Sean bows up and says no heloc. We're gonna have, he's gonna have feelings. We're gonna hear dad voice on the phone. Gonna be using my dad voice, not my partner in.

[Caller]

Sam.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Hey, George Camel here. We often talk about how being normal sucks when it comes to your money. But guess what? Normal isn't so great when it comes to your job either. Normal is staying in a job you hate, dreading Mondays, and working for people you don't even like. Sound familiar? Well, the good news is you can break free from normal because Ramsey Solutions is hiring and we refuse to settle for the ordinary. In fact, we are anything but normal, and we are proud of it. And right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. So head over to ramseysolutions.com careers and apply today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, Psalm 84:11. For the Lord as a son and shield. The Lord bestows favor and honor. No good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless. Jordan Peterson said, the more you open yourself up to the possibility that good things will happen, the higher probability is that good things will in fact happen. Taylor's with us in Dallas. Hi, Taylor. How are you?

[Caller]

Good, George. Good. Dave. How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Up? So I'm recently engaged. And before getting married, I feel like it's important to rid myself of about $36,000, $372 in debt. The biggest chunk of that is going to be my truck, which I've decided to sell. I owe $30,160. And so in trying to sell. I'm trying to sell it privately. I have about $15,000 worth of equity in it and just not getting any traction or interest in private sale. Most of what I'm getting is scammers or what I've learned to be scammers from Ask Ramsey. So I appreciate that tool. But dealerships as well, and they're only offering about 80 to 85% of the private value of the vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the private value you think is 45?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Based on what?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Kelly Blue Book.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's private sale with your attributes of your truck. In Kelly Blue book is a $45,000 number?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. And how old are you diesel truck? 35.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's what kind of truck again?

[Caller]

The 2019 Ram. 2500 diesel? Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

In Texas. Is it duly?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And it's what year model again?

[Caller]

19.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Do you just have it listed on Facebook or is it other places as well?

[Caller]

AutoTrader, cards, dot com, Facebook, marketplace and chat. What's the other private one? I'm sorry?

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Well, there's a whole bunch true car. Car gurus, Craigslist.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Are you getting any views on it? Are you getting views but no messages? Are you getting messages but they're scams? What's the situation there?

[Caller]

There a lot of. A lot of views that turn into messages.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who are.

[Caller]

They're definitely scammers offering more for the vehicle than I'm asking for it and then saying that though they need it shipped they'll give me a check.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And that's where it gets sketchy.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. And then dealerships. I guess dealerships might even think of this, but they scour the private sale market looking for vehicles in good shape with low mileage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. So what the dealers are offering you what,

[Caller]

about 37?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay. Is the best offer I've gotten.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Have you tried like, a Carmax or Carvana to see what they would give you? Sometimes it'll be higher than dealerships.

[Caller]

Yeah, CarMax is about the same. I have not tried Carvana.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah, that. That makes sense. Have you looked at on all of these sites what your competition is like, who else has got a 2019 Dodge diesel up for sale? What are they asking?

[Caller]

Yes, most of them are lower than me, but they have higher mileage and different trim levels. If I'm going apples to apples, I'm right in that range. And dealerships are. If I'm not looking at private sale, dealerships are selling for 46 to 48 for the same vehicle. So I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long have you had it on

[Caller]

the market, pricing it lower? About three weeks.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. It's probably just going to take some time to locate the buyer.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everything you're saying sounds right. You've done a very, very good job of. Of analyzing the situation. Congratulations. I mean, you've looked at the competition, you've looked at wholesale offers. You've weeded out the scammers. You've got it listed on multiple platforms. If you can find any other platforms to put it on, it wouldn't hurt. But if you got a serious buyer that would call up and say, I'll give you 42, then you're probably gonna take that.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

But at this point, you're not, after three weeks, ready to sell the thing for wholesale at 37, 38. I wouldn't do that. I don't disagree.

[Caller]

You.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no desperation in this. We're not trying to avoid a repo. We're simply trying to get rid of the $30,000 worth of debt. But we're not going to give up an extra eight grand to do that. So I'm with you. I think you've got this dialed in. I don't think it's. I don't think the reason I'm asking all the questions is trying to see if you were overpriced, but it does not appear you are, based on what you told me. Now, the thing we have to all Admit is a $45,000 car.

[Caller]

Car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is still a very expensive Car. So there's not a lot of people walking around just looking for that today.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's not a, you know, if it was a fifteen thousand dollar car, there'd be a lot more market for it. Right.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

At that point you're competing with people who would just buy new.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So are you in Dallas proper?

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Are you out further?

[Caller]

No, I'm not further. I'm in Whitesboro.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

I'm wondering if you call dealers that are closer to the city who may move more of those if you might have better luck with an offer.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you could keep poking around. I don't think you're gonna. I don't think you're gonna give you much over wholesale.

[Caller]

But.

[Dave Ramsey]

But Georgia hurt to do what George is saying.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

At least you'll find by getting offered

[Caller]

has been in the DFW area.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Okay, so that's already. Yeah. Everything you're saying is right. It may just be a matter of patience. And if you run out of patience, you're just going to cut your price down, approaching wholesale to get the deal to work. Right. To get somebody to move on it.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

And I just played that game selling my car and we listed it higher and then we kind of incrementally brought it down every couple weeks until it sold. So that's, that's kind of the game in the private party used car market.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that car was a lot less expensive.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Oh yeah, it was like a, you know, eight or ten thousand dollar car, which. There's more people in the market for that than the $45,000 diesel truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Taylor, I didn't hear anything that you told me that was like way out there. All of it sounded accurate. And so the only thing I've got to say is it may take a little while because it's an expensive car. It's a $45,000 car. And the good news is you're not trying to sell a diesel truck in Manhattan. You're trying to sell it in Dallas Fort Worth, which would be a much better marketplace for it that you know, or la. You're in the sweet spot for selling a truck. So I think that's good and I think it's going to take a little time and then you just decide how motivated you are going to become. Or am I going to just reach over and pay the stupid thing off and keep it? You know, at some point we didn't ever ask how much you made. We didn't get into all of that. But that's that's the whole process. So, George, it's pretty cool. That guy had a wake up call. He said, I got engaged. I'm gonna clean up everything. I'm gonna get my debts cleaned up. He had an I've had it moment. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And it was around his car. You know, I've been doing this for almost 40 years now on the radio here. Answer. And on podcasts and YouTube. Once they came along, not for 40 years, but once they came along and it persists that the number one thing that we all buy that goes down in value is a car. And the number one largest item that messes up people's finances is a car. And so, I mean, this is a guy, young guy, he's engaged, he's excited about getting married, and he owes $30,000 on a pickup truck. I mean, just let that set in for a second, America. And so these are the decisions that people are making all across America. And so let this call be a warning to you that if you're 24, you're 23, 22, and you're thinking, oh, I might meet someone in the next few years or months and, oh, there might be a truck standing between me and her, then don't buy the truck, honey.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Your priorities will be revealed pretty quickly. If you're not willing to give up that truck for a better life with

[Dave Ramsey]

that girl, well, just never buy it in the first place.

[George Campbell Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, average new cars now 50 grand, average payments, 70, 68. It's gotten to be insane. So just avoid those.

[Dave Ramsey]

Puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.