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Dave Ramsey
Foreign to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washaw, number one best selling author Ramsey personality is my co host today. Phone Number here is 888-825-5225. Freddy starts this hour in Nashville. Hi Freddy. How are you? Good. Dave, I'm so glad that I got ahold of you. Could really use your help. Got a 91 year old mother and there are five of us siblings and we're trying to help her. She is in a nursing home in PA and she is going to pass away soon. So we have a cousin who is my mom's niece who actually is in charge of her state along with her husband. Her husband is an estate attorney. She has power attorney and she handles stock, transit or you know, brokerage transactions as well. Okay, if your mother has five children, why did she give her niece power of attorney? Part? We can't. We can't quite figure that out. It's a little. Well, no, you know, I mean, why the heck didn't she give it to you? Well, I'm, I live far away. I'm in Nashville. Doesn't affect anything. I know it doesn't seem. Are you not in positive relationship with your mother? No, no, we're all good. Is your cousin like a very good lawyer or something? The cousin's husband is. Yeah. The niece is the niece. Yeah, he is, yeah. This is what, this is what we think happened. We think that because she did that for her parents and that led to a lot of issues that she basically, you know, has. My mom didn't really have anything else to go to once my father passed. Then she thought, okay, well, I could use them. It's kind of complicated, the estate with some of the things that my parents have done as far as investments and things. So I think she thought it was a good idea. Now, I know you always say, I've heard you say, don't do business with family. No, I didn't say that. Okay, maybe you did. Okay, never heard that incorrectly. But either way, she's just so in deep with them that, you know, she's just. She's got complete control, more or less. Yeah. I mean, her mother gave it to her though. Okay, that's true. Now here's the thing. They kind of operate from a standpoint of if they can just keep offering you more and more. And my mother of course accepted. So that's on her. But my mother is older, and she just, you know, decided to do a little bit too much with them. And they recently tried to declare her to be incompetent, more or less. What? She was not after we had all requested, through my mother, a copy of the records because we were getting suspicious that there's some fraudulent behavior going on. So we wanted to see what the estate looked like. My mother agreed to it. She requested that, and they did not provide that. Okay, and how long ago was that? That was about three weeks ago. So we looked into an attorney to get some protection for her, because apparently my mom's niece had contacted an attorney, sent a letter to the assisted living facility where my mom lives and tried to say that we were somehow coercing to get records or try to coerce her into not allowing them to see. So the facility actually banned them, both of them, from seeing her, because they were always trying to meet with her privately, which, under normal circumstances, might make sense, but in this case, we suspect that there's some funny business going on. So what. What does your. What does your attorney say? Well, he said that what we could do is go in there and request all the records, also request the beginning as far as all the records to the very end, where we are right now, and everything in between all transactions. Okay. So I set my appointment. He came. He was going to go visit my mother, and the last second, my mother canceled. Now, the problem is that my mother feels a strong sense of loyalty to her niece. How can we help you today? Well, I'm just trying to see if we have any rights as children. Whether. When she passes. No. Or prior to that, Anything we can do. No, the only rights you have are the questions that you've got that you can still get answered. Okay. As. As the, you know, as the siblings. You could file a suit after her death to see the record still, just to, you know, what. What the flip does the will say and how has these. You know, we are. We're filing suit because we think fraudulent behavior has been involved, and you have to file a lawsuit. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense, because we do not have access to the will. We only have an old will. Yeah, but you get access to the will the same way the will in most states is filed as public, unless it's some kind of a trust set up. Okay, but probate. Probate files are public files. I've gone and looked at them myself when I was trying to buy property from an estate where somebody died. I want to know what the will said. And so. But I don't know about Pennsylvania, but I have no idea. This is a tangled mess. And honestly, Freddie, the answer to the question is y'all should have dealt with this like three years ago, like the first time you got an inkling instead of waiting until she's on her deathbed because now it just adds drama to everything. And if you smelled a rat early on, you should have pulled the plug then stepped in, not, you know, and pulled the plug on this relationship because that, that's where you went wrong. You didn't deal with it soon enough. And I got to tell you, it's very. The story you're telling is very strange that your mother feels a unbelievable sense of loyalty to this niece and a close relationship. Closer than her own kids. Yeah, that feels like that's on the kids. That sounds weird. I don't know. I can't tell what's going on in one radio phone call. But I'm not accusing you or anything. I don't know what happened here, but it just feels. The whole story's strange. But if, if things are as you perceive them to be, that you have a great relationship with your mother and she's been co opted by this cult leader niece, then, then you just get an attorney and sue the pants off of them until you get enough records and you make their life miserable enough. Keeping in mind that their attorney's fees are free because her husband's an attorney, you're going to be paying, so that's what you're signing up for. And please don't expect anything to move fast in the justice system. There is nothing. Fat old lady justice is a slow woman, so she is not going to serve you quickly. So it may, it may take four years. And I don't know how big the estate is. It may not be worth messing with, but apparently it is because everybody's fighting over it. But this is the reason, people. This is the reason, period. And mom, you people out there that are going to be that 91 year old I'm going to be someday, maybe your job is to not let this happen. Your job is to tell everyone what the will says, hand out copies. If you're going to piss somebody off in the will, go ahead and do it while you're alive. Have a backbone instead of sneaking off into the grave and letting somebody else deal with their hurt feelings. Okay? That's so freaking dysfunctional, it's unbelievable. I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe it as sneaking into the grave. Probably has never happened. Before, just now. But I may use it again because it worked. But. Yeah, but you see the point? Guys, you guys, you. You create all this drama when you do your estate plan and you keep it a deep, dark secret, like it's a freaking movie or something. This is not a movie. It's your life. And so if you're the crotchety old whatever and you want to give it all to your niece, go ahead and tell all your kids that, you know, you never called me. I'm giving it all to her. Shut up. You can say that that's perfectly legal, but go ahead and deal with it so they don't have to sit and wonder if the niece is stealing the stuff, you know, I don't know, but tell everybody. Get your wills done and tell everybody what the stinking will says. Wow. Wicked weird. This is the Ramsay. Let me tell you. The God's gonna cut you. It's Holy Week in Jerusalem, and the city is restless. The people of Israel welcome Jesus as king, his followers ready for revolution. But instead of taking the throne, Jesus turns the tables. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees. How will you escape being contemplated to hell? Experience Holy Week like never before. What have you done now in theaters. The chosen Last supper. Get your tickets now. If you run a business or you're thinking about starting one, you probably already know running a business is hard. When you work for yourself, sometimes you have a jerk for a boss. I have worked me like a rented mule at times. I have worked me to death at times. And some of your city people need to look up Rented mule, but anyway. Yeah, that's like I ever had one either, but yeah, anyway. Hey, we wrote this book to walk you through the same proven system that we used at Ramsey, and we've coached 10,000 small businesses on. It's the entree leadership system, the five stages of business, and the six drivers that take you through them. It's kind of like the baby steps for small business. It doesn't make it easier, but it makes it easier because at least you know where you're going and you know what you got to do to level up in your business. And you know what the clear path looks like. You know what the. What the road to Florida looks like. You need a map. You don't just wander around and hope you get there. Preorder the book today by midnight because tomorrow goes on sale and all the goodies go away. The book is on sale tomorrow, officially 2999. Before midnight. Get over $350 in free bonus Items including instant access to the entree, leadership, Hiring and firing playbook, the enhanced audiobook, the audiobook on this book, super fancy. We did it up like a podcast so it doesn't sound like a boring audiobook, which I hate doing those things. But this one's not. It's good. At least I think it's good. Pre order today@ramseysolutions.com store or you can click in the show notes and we'll get you going. Mel is in Chicago. Hey, Mel, what's up? Hey. Longtime Ramsey fan here. I had a quick question. I've been married. I was, I'm 59. I was married for 29 years, divorced for three years. And in our first marriage, you know, I'm, you know, everything is a wee thing, whether it's kids, finances, it's an hour we thing. Okay. Now, as you move into looking maybe at a second marriage, what happens to kids and assets? Does it say stay the same as a initial marriage? Everything is a we are thing. You know, you hear about prenups, you hear about, you know, or does everything. It just stays simple. It's just like a first marriage, but it's the second one. It's a we are thing. Whether it's kids or assets or whatever, you know, it doesn't matter. What really matters is that you decide in advance. Okay. How many kids do you have? Well, I have five, but I only have one that is under 18. She has two. Are they under 18? They are. Okay. And there are a difference in assets. She has mentioned prenups. I'm not a favor of them. I feel like any line you draw. Who has the assets? She does at the moment. Okay. What is her net worth? Probably three million, two and a half million. What's yours? Probably 700,000. Okay. All right. I don't usually recommend prenups except in extreme situations. This is pretty much an extreme situation. If somebody wants a prenup to protect their classic car, don't marry them. Right. Okay, but if, but, but there's $3 million on the table. You've been divorced three years and you got 750 on your side. So I think you would say what you come into it with is yours, what she comes into it with is hers. And what we do from that point forward is ours. Well, the problem with that is I'm a small business owner and my income is only going to go up if she retires. Hers will do nothing but end. So then you end up in a prenup situation where, oh, no, the $3 million. Income does not end. Pardon? She makes 300,000 a year. If she makes 10% on 3 million in perpetuation, her income does not end. Yeah, right. But if my income goes up to. My net worth goes up to five or 10 in the next 10 years. Do you see what I mean? Everything that she had was earned pre marriage. Everything I. Assets, mine would actually be post marriage. Okay, well, you guys just have to decide, okay? It's not like a right or wrong or. Yeah, no, I think what you got to do is. Number one. The question I always ask myself is, am I. Am I making a statement with this move that says I love stuff more than her? If that's the case, you probably ought to not get married. Well, I know that's not me. I mean, I'm afraid that's the other person. But that's never me because that's not how I am. Yeah, I feel like. But you just said that. You just said my income and my assets are going to go up, and I'm worried about that. That doesn't seem worried about. Yeah, you did. You just said it, dude. Yeah, I understand, and I did. But that's. I'm probably more concerned about it not causing a dividing line. There you go. That's. That's good. I like that roommate situation. So if you had agreed to something on the front end, it would not cause a dividing line for you, right? No, that's not. That's the thing. I don't want. I don't want to end up in a roommate situation where I pay this, you pay that. No, I'm not suggesting that, but I am saying, you know, you come up with something that says a formula on your business, and you come up with something that's a formula on her stuff, and then the rest of it we put in the middle and we just work it out. We take care of the minor children. You know, if you love her, you have to take care of them. That's an act of love. The kids are not a problem at all. I was going to say, what are the kids. Are the kids on board with this? Do you have weird relationships? What. What are the. Because that's the thing that I think of first. You guys are the ones getting married. But if I were in that situation as the woman, probably what I'd be thinking about are, will my kids be protected if this for some reason goes south? That being said, I hold that with a grain of salt because at any point in any relationship, if you start thinking like that, that is an indicator that Something's already wrong. I'm in a marriage now. I don't think, oh, gosh, if something were to happen, I want to make sure my kids were protected. That's not in my brain right now because I'm married. So there's part of it that I. If I'm being honest, I just hate the discussion because it just feels divisive from the go. But I also, like, I also understand it. You do need clarity. So the prenup. The prenup can give you clarity in the event of a marriage ending, but also go ahead and state in there what the wills are going to say. So her 3 million goes to her kids, or her 3 million goes a million to you and 2 million to her kids or whatever the number is, you're 750, and your business goes where and so on. In the event of death, how is she going to be cared for? In the event of death, how are you going to be cared for? In the event of divorce, how's it going to happen? And as long as you have that very clearly defined and then talk through the feelings that you have around that, I don't think the kids really get a vote other than the minor children have to be taken care of. But they, you know, I. She. You need to put your spouse, your new spouse ahead of your kids from the previous marriage. That's true. That's true. But you. But everyone does have a concern that I want to leave some of my stuff to them. But I'll give you an example. If a guy. It's a little different than these numbers. Okay? But if a guy says, okay, I'm coming into this with a whole lot of assets. The lady he's marrying doesn't. I've had that. Where he had five or six million dollars. And he goes, I want to make sure my kids get everything. Well, you're not very taking good care of your spouse when you die. Exactly. So that worries me. But then on the flip side is if the one spouse dies with a pretty large estate and it's more than enough to take care of the spouse and the kids. But. But if this, the surviving spouse is a bonehead with the money and just blows through it, then you also feel like, hey, well, the kids shouldn't have to. You know what I'm saying? They shouldn't have to come in. But I mean, so, you know, in the case of that $6 million guy said, hey, you need to set aside enough to make sure your new wife is taken care of. In the event of your Death. And, you know, I think you've got to, you know, what we're trying to do is love everyone. Well, but in the right. The fair is where the cotton candy and the Tilt a Whirl is. There's not a fair. There is no fair. Fair is your money. The two of you sit down and you decide. And whatever process or values you use to decide where she uses to use where her 3 million goes should also be equally. That same value or process or principle should be applied to your side. I do agree. And so, you know, and I think you figure out in the event of death and the event of divorce, I think divorce is a lot cleaner because in death, you know, I gotta make sure everybody's taken care of. That's right. And it gets a little weird or, you know, legacy or whatever, all that stuff. So. But yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting discussion. But much as we talked about on the call before that, make sure that the kids know too. Everybody knows. You all sit down and decide, draft it and then tell them they don't really get a vote. Tell them this is what's happening, this is what we decided, and here's how we came to that decision. And you could sit down, tell them together. Yeah, that's right. But I wouldn't cut anybody out. I wouldn't cut anybody in all the way. But there's not a requirement here. Somehow you've got to learn how to join your lives while you're honoring the past. And that's going to be. It's going to be a tightrope. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world. Like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options. And they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal. And that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them. And you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Jade, one of my rules is to not tell people to do something I haven't done or I'm unwilling to do. Agree. Me too. I was thinking during that break that the vast majority of my assets, including the Ramsey Solutions company and a lot of our real estate is already in the name of the Ramsey Children's Trust. Wow. Yeah. It's already been transferred for estate tax planning primarily, but also because whatever is not in that is more than enough for Sharon to be taken care of. And the rest of it is intentionally left to the kids. And so we're out of pass away. And Sharon were to get remarried. It's already divvied. It's already been taken care of. I mean, she would have a big chunk she would need to think about, but it would not be. You wouldn't be going back on the stuff that's already been. I'm trying to think of a number, but let's call it 70% is already in the kids names or more. And so that's not even in play anymore in our case because we structurally did it for estate tax planning, but it also reflects a value. Yes. That we wanted it. We wanted the legacy piece to go with that. So. Interesting. I just had to kind of think through what. Why I was highly uncomfortable there. All right. On the debt free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Riley and Claire are with us. Hey, guys. How are you? Hi. Doing well. How are you? Great. Where do y'all live? Lexington, Kentucky. Oh. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And how much debt have you two paid off? We paid off $65,767. Excellent. How long did that take you? 16 months. Good for you and your range of income during that year and a half. $75,000 was our starting and then 90,000 is where we ended up. Way to go. What do you all do for a living? I'm a speech therapist and I'm actually a medical student. How are you paying for that? So I'm actually in the Air Force. I'm paying for that. Excellent. Thank you. I like it. Very good. What was the 65,000 then? Student loans. My student loans for speech therapy. Speech therapy? Yes, sir. Wow. What year med school are you in? I'm in third year. Okay. At uk I Guess. University of Kentucky. Yes. Okay, excellent. I'm so glad. Thank you for your service to the country and I'm proud that we're doing that. And what a bright guy to get the taxpayer to pay for this. It's a beautiful idea. Thank you. Really smart. I like it. I like it. I'm not being sarcastic. I think it's a. You know, these guys ask me all the time, how do I go to med school. It's too expensive. You just figured it out, right? What made you. Let me ask before I get sideways. What made you go that route? So actually it's a. Whenever I got accepted, I got an email from the Marine Corps first. And so I was like, I saw it. I was looking at the email, I was like, what's the catch? You know? And so I started looking into a little bit more. We were just dating at the time, but I saw a future with her. So I was talking with her about, you know, what this process looked like and things like that. So I talked with some other people from my hometown church, and they went through the Air Force and they said it was a great program, that they would do it again the same way. So I just was like, you know, the catch is to serve. So. And what is the commitment? So after residency will be four years of active duty. Okay, so when you become an md, four years is your payback. Yes. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. That's good. And they give us a stipend all throughout medical school, so that's really helped us and that helped us along this debt free journey. So just having the extra income on top of hers. Yeah. So the stipend is part of it, but basically it's your speech therapy income. Yes. Way to go. And how old are you two? I'm 27. I'm 25. And how long have y'all been married? It'll be two years in June. Ah, okay. So you've had this plan since before you got married? Yes, sir. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. And you were looking at med school debt going, oh, my gosh. And then the Air Force appeared. Yeah, right. Yep, exactly. Wow, that's exciting. So tell me about what it was like getting on to this plan. Was it a lot of sacrifice? Was it something that, for the most part you just thought, well, you know, we're just doing this. Tell us more about that. So whenever we were about to get married, I was trying to figure out, you know, what we would do with our finances. I wanted to try to set us up well, and I think One thing that stressed her out a lot was the debt. I think her family was telling her that's a big thing to tackle. So I thought that it would be a really good thing for us to just hit that hard and really go for it, because I knew that was a big thing that was stressing her out, and I just wanted to move forward and do the right thing for our family. So that was really where it started. It may have taken a little bit of convincing. I'm a natural spender. Got you. It was definitely his push, but, I mean, we're unified in marriage, so we're going to be unified in and paying this debt off. And so that's what we did. Was it worth it? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Not only financially, but I think it really strengthened our marriage. As we were going through this together, we had a. A lot of decisions were made together, so we got to know each other much more and deeper. And so, you know, going through the first year of marriage and doing this as well was really helped us. Oh, it's huge. Yeah. And we see how it'll impact our marriage and our family for years to come. I mean, you can make tough decisions about money. You make tough decisions about almost anything. Right. Together. Unification. That's. So then the real question is, Riley, now that you're debt free, what does Claire get to buy? So, yeah, I think the next thing on the docket would be getting her a new to US car. The car is almost as old as I am. Yeah. She definitely need to upgrade this car. She would really sacrifice. She kept saying, you know, all the different cars in the parking lot, you know, are much nicer than hers. But she kept. She kept pushing on and calling me out a little bit. It's true. And they all have famous. Yeah, they all have same thing. Yeah. Yeah. I just had to remind myself, this is paid off. We don't owe anything. Wink at those broke people as they get in their car and drive away. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Wow. So what is this car? It's a 2005 Honda Accord, and it gets me from point a to point. Classic. Does it have a name? It doesn't, but we should name it something. You should name something. Make sure you take pictures that you can show your grandkids. There you go. That's what you drove while your husband was going to med school in the Air Force. And that's how we became multimillionaires. And I just wanted you to know the story. Right? Yeah, Yeah, I drove. I drove a freaking hooptie. Yeah. So you guys Did a great pictures of my old cars and. And man, I tell you, it's. Your cars are part of your journey and you are, you are due for an upgrade, no question. Yeah. You guys did it right. I'm proud of you. Because we talk to doctors all the time, calling in on the other end because they've got so many student loans and it's just not all it was cracked up to be. And so to come out of it with no debt, I'm just, I mean, I hope that you come back in how many five years and tell us. Give us the update. Yeah, it's going to be huge. You're going to be going ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. I like it. And your pay is not bad in the Air force. No. For the four years, once you come out of residency, especially without the student loan payments. Yeah, exactly. It's all going to be yours. Yeah. And I mean, you're going to be making some good money. Way to go, you guys. What a great plan. How mature and forward looking and visionary and all that. That's pretty cool. Were there people in your friend group or family that were picking on you? Not a whole lot of picking on us, but we did have a lot of support. Our families both really supported us. I even had some med school buddies who knew about what we were going through and cheered us on the whole way. And Dave, you were a. You were a common name in my family growing up. So I grew up hearing about you and knowing like, you need to get on that Dave Ramsey plan. Like you need to. So when you were a teenager, my name was a cuss word. Yeah. Okay. I got it. That's okay. I like it. I like it. It sets you up. It sets you up to be this. I like where you are. I'm proud of you guys. You're pretty amazing. Thanks. Very cool. Good stuff. Very cool. Very good stuff, man. That's good. Riley and Claire, Lexington, Kentucky. $66,000 paid off in 16 months. Newly married, 75,000 to 90,000. That means they've been on beans and rice, boys and girls. That's what that math says. And driving an old hooptie and going to come out of med school or come out of the air force with zero med school debt. Just brilliant, brilliant plan, man. It can be done. Wow. This, when I see people like you guys, it just gives me a lot of hope for the future of this nation. You're incredible. Well done. Riley and Claire. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So med school's 250, 300 grand? Yeah, give or take. I don't know what UK is, but somewhere in there. And the payback is four years of service. And when you have good pay while you're doing the four years of service. Yeah, Just having a plan. He. He went in with a plan. Stone cold. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Beautiful. This is the Ramsey Show. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions possibly? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non profit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing so you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that though, is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and, and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. Yeah. And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them@fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. You guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you. It's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org Ramsey Glenn is in Toronto, Canada. Hey, Glenn, how are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I want to know, should I sell my paid off truck? It's kind of expensive. And buy an older truck to save money. To save money? Well, it's just like a depreciating asset and I just feel like it's too much truck. Okay, it's paid for. Do you have debt? It is no debt. What's a truck worth? 69,000. Wow. What do you make? Last year? 260. You like the truck? Yeah, it's okay. It's kind of faded, but it's a good truck. I like it. So you're like, let me offload this before it depreciates further and get something else, basically. Yeah, yeah. It's actually worth a few more bucks than it was when I bought it a year ago. Okay, so what would you get instead? Just an older truck. Like something, you know, 20 years old that's in good shape. But what would you spend? I mean, how much? Like 20. Are you married? Yes. What does your wife make? She makes 100. On top of your 260? No, that's combined. Oh, okay. All right. And what does she drive? She drives an 18 Murano. What's that worth? 12,000. Okay. So do you have a boat? Nope. A Sea Doo? I have nothing. Snowmobile? No. No toys without a snowblower. Okay. Just a snowblower. Okay. Well, you probably need that. Yeah. Well, the rule of thumb that we have run numbers on is that you're probably not doing serious damage to your finances if you keep the things that you have with motors and wheels. Okay. Any. Anything with motors and wheels goes down in value or just wheels. If it has a battery and like a Tesla, it goes down in value. Okay. So if it's got wheels and. Or a motor, it goes down in value. And so you don't want all of those things added together to be more than half your annual income because you have too much invested in things that are going the wrong way. Right. You do not. Right. You've not. You're not even close. You're not even close. So what's. I'm just curious of your emotion around this because it's all. It's obviously something that you're just. I'm wondering why you're even batting this around. Like, what happened? Or what are you thinking you can do with the money, this. You know, the extra money? Well, I have three children. One's going to university this year. Okay, well, there you go. And that's what you're thinking you'll do with the money is pay for college. Well, there is money for that, but just having more of a buffer, I guess. Okay, you're not doing anything wrong as long as you're able to pay cash for college and run your household budget. Keeping the truck. If you want to sell it, though, you can sell it at your truck. You're not stupid for keeping it, and you're not stupid for selling it. But what we're fighting against is people that make 65,000 a year and they're driving a $65,000 truck. Right. And then they can't figure out why the flip. They're broke. Sure. Or people who just feel guilty. Then it's the opposite end of people who are doing really well, and they just feel guilty about being able to have nice things. Yeah. I regularly talk to millionaires on the millionaire baby steps, millionaires theme hour, and I regularly tell them to get a better car. Yeah, you got to. Because they're still driving a piece of crap, and you don't need to do that. When you get a million dollars, it's okay. You don't have to drive a piece of crap. And you make, you know, 200. You make a quarter million dollars a year. You make enough money to not worry about it, and so. And a $69,000 truck. But if you call me up and tell me you want to buy a $400,000 Lambo, I'm going to tell you, no, that's stupid. If you make 260. That doesn't fit the budget. Some people also just don't. I'm talking to myself right now. I feel called out. I just don't care about cars. Then there's people who are like, I could drive. No, that's Sharon. She has no idea what her cars are called. She's like, what kind of car is that? What kind of car is that? Gray one. That. She doesn't care. I don't care. Yeah. I buy Sharon's cars because I want them, not because she does. That's what will happen in our family. Yes. I don't care. Yeah, that's. I mean, because it's a car that I. Because I get to drive them occasionally. You know, it's something that's sitting in the garage there, and I'm picking up the grandkids or whatever. So I don't want. You know, and so there you go. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. But the rule of thumb is that guys. And. And if you have debt on it, the Other formula that goes with the half of your income on things that have wheels and motors. The other formula is, can you be debt free? Everything except the house in two years if you keep the stupid truck. And oddly enough, it usually is a stupid truck. I don't know why, but occasionally it's a car. But it's usually a stupid truck. It's a truck. Yeah, but. Yeah, you don't. You don't. You're not required to put a lot of money if you don't care anything about it, you know, but you'll spend that money in other ways. It's fine. I mean, you could. My point is, you can buy something that goes down in value mathematically, and it doesn't keep you from getting ahead if you stay with that formula. That's the only thing I'm coming up with there. All right. Derek is in Kansas City. Hi, Derek. What's up? Hey, sir. I just got out of the service. I'm trying to get my financial setting in. I'm looking at buying a home and getting into the real estate business. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your support, sir. How can we help? So I guess I just have. I'm unsure of what the steps should be. So I went from I'm going to do 20 years in the service to getting irreversibly injured, and now I'm just looking at a life where I don't have to work for anybody else and I just kind of live a life that I want to live. So I'm looking at. Into real estate, going that route. Oh, interesting. Real estate. You mean like a real estate agent, selling houses? Either buying and selling houses or just buying homes and then renting them out. Do you have. You have that kind of money laying around? Not yet, no. Okay. All right. So you're not going to be a real estate investor because you don't have any money? Yes, sir. Do you have your own. Your own home yet? No, man, I'm currently. I just got out March 5th. Okay. Single? Yes. So you get full disability or do you go out on 20 year retirement? I am fully disabled. I'm making about 48,000 a year, tax free. Yeah, for the rest of your life. Okay. What's the nature of your disability, sir? My back is destroyed. Long story short, they told me that I will just have to learn to live with the pain. It doesn't get better. I will. If you were to. If you were to buy properties and rent them, who would manage the properties with your back issues? Like, how would you take care of it. That's the. My back isn't so bad that I can't, you know, do basic lawn work or working on places. I also come from a lower middle class family, but a working family nonetheless. So you can. Okay. So you can. You've identified the level of work that you can do. Physical work. Okay. Yeah. You're not required to do the painting. If you're managing property, you can hire a painter. That's not the end of the world, but I promise you I will. Let's see, getting started though, did you do a lot of the work with your hands? No. You didn't? Never touched it? No. I know how I grew up, mom and dad, you know, we always working on some old house because that's what they did. But so I know how to do it. But that's what made me not want to do it. The. A lot of black fingernails from hitting them with a hammer. The. Let's see. You know, I think I'd go into the real estate business and go make some money as an agent before I started trying to flip houses with debt. So my only thoughts were with my home loan or not. I'm sorry, with the VA home loan, there's a lot of benefits that come with it. No, there's not. It's horrible. Disregard. The VA Home Loan is a nothing down loan. That is a higher interest rate and higher funding fees than any other loan. It's higher than FHA and it's higher than Fannie Mae. It's not a good benefit. Your other benefits are good benefits and they're great. I'm glad they're there. And I'm sure you've got someone in addition to the VA looking at your back, I hope. Yes, I do. Good. People just hear the zero down and think, yeah, I wouldn't do the zero down, nothing down real estate flip thing. That's something that you see on TikTok. Real people don't get rich doing that. They go broke doing that. That's my biggest fear. Yeah, I'd stay away from that. But. But I do want to encourage your entrepreneurial spirit. I want you to. To plug in and start something to start earning an income in addition to the 48. You've got the. You've kind of got the basics of life covered. And so now you can kind of tinker with Monopoly money. Right. Without going into debt. So you could start something pretty easy and move in that direction. I'm going to send you a couple of business books to get you started for small business. It's the brand new one that comes out this week, build a business you love. And the book entree leadership, which is the playbook of how we grew Ramsey from a card table in my living room. I think maybe you'll get some ideas out of both of those. Oh, I'm also going to give you Ken Coleman's book find the work you're wired to do and take the assessment in that. And it'll probably give you a wink and a nod in a certain direction. This is the Ramsay show. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have George sketchy and never trust him. And that's why we recommend delete me. They help with that. Yeah, they do. Delete me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs and there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info like your email address, your home address, your kids names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find. So much. But delete me will delete your data, hence the name. It's gone. They'll wipe it out for you. You so you can sleep easy. That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful. Get this. So far they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it. I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to join DeleteMe.com Ramsey that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. Again, that's joins elite me.com Ramsey. Make sure to check it out, you guys. Foreign from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washall, number one best selling author and Ramsey personality. She's my co host today. Andrea is in Philadelphia. Hi Andrea. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yes. I am really like tricky situation. I am baby step number two with my husband and I just received a call today in the morning actually my brother and my mom asking me to borrow my brother three that will land my brother $3,000. But my mom know about this noble and for what? For what? For his business. Because he needs to pay stuff for his business. Why doesn't she lend him the $3,000? Because she doesn't have the money. Neither do you. You're broken in debt. I was going to say it's the same answer exactly, but this is the catch. I talk to my mom sometimes, you know, telling her like we save money for the kids, right? So the kids have money. So her idea was to take the money from the kids savings account to give my brother. She has a lot of ideas about what you should do with your money. Why? Do you, do you feel, do you feel like you're in. In some way? You have to listen to what she's asking you to do. I mean my brother helped me when my. Me and my husband were like in really tough situation at the beginning of our marriage. How do you help? How do you help that? I mean sometimes like buying more kids stuff if they needed without asking. And he was like okay, you know, I can do it or. That was not $3,000. No, no, not $3,000. That was a hundred dollars, kind of like that $50 here. What is your, what's your cultural background? What's this accent? Well, I'm from Ecuador. Okay, and your mom is. Your mom and brother are in Ecuador? No, they're, they're living here, but yeah, they're Ecuadorian sales force and they live here right now. We're all. Most of my family live in the United States right now. Your brother, is he single or does he have family and kids and he is single and he does have a kid back in Ecuador. Okay. He has a business and he did not open like this is how. Can you tell me more about. Can you tell me more about. Did your brother come to you and you said sorry, I can't help you. Then he went to your mom and then your mom. Tell me how that happened. I received a call today in the morning that my brother asked my mom and then the call came from my mom. Okay. So she was listening because she knew about my kids savings account. So her idea was. Okay, so listen, listen. There's two possible answers, okay? In your culture it is more normal for you to share with extended family than it is in an Anglo family, okay? In my culture, the answer is a hard no and instantaneously. And you're weird for even asking. Okay, correct. But in your culture, this is not quite as weird. Am I correct in saying that? Correct. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Because I got to tell you, in my world, when grandma asked for the kids money for the brother, that means grandma needs to be smacked. In my world. Okay, no, you're not getting my dad gum. Kids money for the brother's business because he's run a business poorly. No, thank you. That's the world I'm in. But that's a little different world than you're in. And so we have to answer the question thoughtfully because there is a cultural difference. Is that fair? Correct. Okay. But I still think the answer is a hard no. I do, too, because I think all of us get to choose the things culturally that we continue on with or the things that we go. I know everybody did it that way. That's just not for me. Or that's. I'm not gonna go with that moving forward. I think you can do that in a way that's not disrespectful, but it's just change. Yeah. One of the reasons I worked my butt off is so I would never be a burden to my kids. But in some cultures, it's normal for you to be a burden to your kids when you get older. It's expected. And you're paying honor when you. When grandpa moves in. And because grandpa has no money because grandpa didn't take care of himself, that's a normal thing in some areas. It is not normal in an Anglo Saxon, African American, United States culture. Okay. And even, you know, but it, you know, again, a Hispanic culture, that's going to have a tendency to go that way. I learned some of these things the hard way as we've tried to help folks in different communities. And I stepped in it because I didn't know there was a cultural difference. So I'm trying to acknowledge that, but still tell you the answer is no. No, Mom, I do not. I am not comfortable with my children's money going to my brother. That makes me uncomfortable, and it really kind of makes me uncomfortable that you would even ask, what's the implication of you saying that, Andrea, to your mom and to your brother? What'll happen next? Well, they are. They actually live together, so they're really close. And I know my brother doesn't know about my savings. It should have been my mom's idea, because that's not something that I just. Yeah, I think you're I think this is all on your mom. And I think your mom has a lesson to learn here, that your household is separate. Huh. And when you tell them no, are you feeling like, hey, they're never going to talk to me again or I'm not going to be invited to, you know, dinner on family dinner? Like, is there. Is there a consequence to you saying no that you can foresee? Yes. And what is that? My brother, he's more like resentful. He's that type of person that if he just. You tell him something he doesn't like, that his wife hasn't even approached about his business and poorly way that you guys said that he is managing it, it's because then he's not going to talk to me. So I'd rather just be, you know, on the side. And I don't. I don't. If you don't want to interfere in him doing his business poorly, that's fine. But when you tell your mom no. Jade's asking mom, no, I think we're going to keep our kids money with our kids. What does she do? Hello? Did you drop your phone? Hello? Yep. Yeah. Hello? Yep. Did you hear me? Hello? Did you hear me? Yes, Yes, I heard your question. What's the answer? The answer is like, yeah, but he can pay you interest. No, no. What is he going to do to you? The answer is no to your mother. Then what is she going to do? No is a complete sentence. Yes, she will try to talk to me. Like a way into it. Yeah. And so the answer's still, mom, I love you, I love him. That's not in question. But this money set aside for my children. And the answer is going to be no, no matter how long we talk. So let's not talk long because it's going to aggravate you, Mom. And what I'm trying to show to you, Andrea, is there's not really a. There's no consequence here other than adults choosing how they're going to behave next. And if your brother chooses to give you the cold shoulder, that's not something you can control. All you can control is your response in this. You can stand by it and your mom can have an attitude for a while, but that's about it. Yeah, exactly. And you get to keep your peace. Exactly. This is the Ramsey Show. I've been helping people get out of debt and change their lives for over 30 years. So I know change isn't always easy, but it's worth it. And here's change that's actually easy. And worth it. Switching to Boost Mobile Boost gives you nationwide 5G coverage for reliable calls and streaming. And their plans start at just 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk, text and data. With Boost Mobile, there's no junk fees, no contracts, and they offer a 30 day money back guarantee. Plus their customer service team is made up of real people, not robots, so switching is easy. So go to boostmobile.com Ramsey that's boostmobile.com Ramsey you know what's crazy to me? Two things. One, that we're already down to the wire on the tax deadline and two, statistically speaking, most people haven't filed yet. And if that's you, I'm not trying to shame you or anything, but just know that taxes don't have to be stressful. Ramsey Smart tax is a 100% accurate software that makes filing simple and easy and doesn't make your wallet cry. So don't be the person pulling your hair out because you're trying to file at 10 o'clock at night on April 15th. Get this party started and over with by going to ramseysolutions.com smarttax that's ramseysolutions.com smarttax foreign of the Day is brought to you by why Refi? Why Refi? Refinances defaulted private student loans, which are different than federal loans. It means you can't even make the required payments and you're in default. If that describes you, contact why Refi. They'll set you up with a low fixed rate loan customized for you, get you out of default, get you out of debt. Go to y refi.com Ramsey today that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states. That's right. Today's question comes from Chelsea in Kentucky. She says, my daughter is a senior in high school. She came home from school recently and said that her personal finance course teacher, quote, educated them on credit cards and loans and how to manage and build credit appropriately. She's very aware of our stance on not using debt and the school is obviously not using your Ramsey curriculum. Yeah. Yeah. How would you deal with an instructor for an instructor forcing your child to participate in their quote process? I mean, in many ways it sounds like Chelsea, you kind of answered your own question because education starts at home. So what you're telling them at home and that you're continually baking into them. You know, this is a good chance to kind of stress test that. In my opinion, it's like, okay, tell me what you learned today. What did they tell You. And then you're kind of opening up that dialogue. Because the truth is a lot of the world does run on that and it is kind of good to understand that so that you see how your pathway is a better pathway. Right. And so I, you know, Dave, you can say what you're going to say, but for me, I think that if I've told my kids, here's, here's a way to do life, here's the way we're doing life in our household, they're able to see the fruit of that day in and day out. It's like any belief system, if you're a Christian, you're going to see things in the world that counteract that and your friends and people are going to tell you things that counteract that. And you're always stress testing what you really believe. And I think this is just another example of that. It's a teachable moment. Yeah, yeah. Because when we're raising, one of the things we try to do when our kids were starting to hit that age group, we said, Andy Andrews says we're not trying to raise great kids, we're trying to raise kids that become great adults. Which means we have to teach them critical thinking skills. They need to be able to think for themselves on doctrine issues in their, in their faith walk, their Christian walk. They need to be able to think for themselves. What's a doctrine issue? And Rachel can have a good doctrinal argument with you. I'll just tell you it's with herself. You can just get her arguing with herself. Good argument on anything. It's a lot of fun. Rachel arguing with a dog with a fence post. I mean, it's just, but anyway, the, I don't know where she gets that, but the, anyway that she would come home or they would come home and with something, as you said, that they learned somewhere. Yeah, it could be school, it could be somewhere else. That didn't line up with the way Ramsey's do things. As for me in my house, we don't do that. And you could just go slam your fist down and go, we don't do that. And you could go yell at the teacher, but it's not going to change the teacher and it's not going to help your kid. So teach your kid why credit scores suck. That the only way you build a credit score is go in debt. That the credit score is not a measure of net worth. It's not a measure of financial health. It's a measure of how much you've been playing kissy Face with the bank and pull it out and show her the lesson. Pull out Financial Peace University and show her how fair Isaac developed the credit score, what the history of it is. It's set up to promote debt for banks. Buy banks. That's right. So learn. And so just say, and honey, your poor little teacher has fallen into that bless her heart. Which in the south could mean we're going to slit your throat, but bless her heart. Right? And so we're just. Here's what you're going to do. You're going to take a test and you're going to pass the test because you're going to answer it the way the teacher needs it answered. But you know what the truth is, because the real test is what you're going to do in the world. The real test is going to be when you're 27 years old. So Denise, my oldest child, when she was in college, took a personal finance class. The guy started the class, you know, 100 people in there, he doesn't even know who's in there. Started the class with a 20 minute lecture on how stupid Dave Ramsey is. And she called, she said, what do I do? I said, what do you want to do? And she goes, well, I know that this is going to be a tough class because I'm dealing with an idiot. Get smart on her. Yeah. Like, I can either drop the class or I can take it and answer the questions and get the credit. Yeah. It's up to you. I said, I don't. I'm not making this decision. You're the ones got to go to class. Yeah. And so she took. She passed the class. At the end of the class, when she was turning her final paper, the guy looked down, saw her name, and realized what he'd done. Oh. So. And he. He's like, oh, God. Oh, yeah. That was enough. Because I'm an alumni that has donated substantially to that University of freaking Tennessee. Sure. And so. And this guy's teaching there under tenure. Maybe, maybe not. Now. I don't know. No, I'm kidding. Did you pull us? But I mean, but we didn't do anything. We just let the guy be and then, boy, did he get to. You've never seen anybody crawl, fish as fast. That guy backed up like he was hiding under a rock. Moonwalking, I'm sure. So, I mean, but that's. That's what you do. You just teach your child how to think. Yeah, I think it's. And then you don't have to worry about it. I think it's positive. I think if you take a hard stance on anything, you should know very clearly what the other side says as well, so that it's a smart argument on your side. And the other side is Hank, who is a Ramsey financial literacy teacher in high school in. In Alabama at Russell County High School. Hank, how are you? I'm great, Dave. I know you're better. Doing better than you deserve. How's Jay doing? She's doing great. So did we give her the right advice? Just leave that other high school teacher that doesn't know what they're doing alone? Yes. Yeah, just leave her alone. Pass the test, do what you got to do. But we don't teach that way at Russell County High School. No, you're teaching the Ramsey curriculum. Teaching them the truth. I love it. How long you been teaching the curriculum, Hank? This is my third year and it's my second. The first year I didn't know how to access the videos or anything, so I really taught from your Total Money Makeover Financial Peace Book. So for two years we've been doing the full curriculum and the course is getting more and more popular. First, the first two years I had to teach some algebra one. And because I'm a math teacher, I incorporated into my math class, but I had to teach some algebra one in there too. So the last. The last two years, the class is. I've got. I've got all this is the only thing I teach this is we teach finite math and I incorporated into it. Next year we change into financial algebra, which will. The standards will line up a lot better, but man, it is great. Love teaching it. I never have a Student Ask me, Mr. Austin, when are we ever going to use that? I would get that sometimes about Pythagorean. I bet. I bet. Well, with. Yeah, you. That's the question that students always want to know is how does this relate? And so you've done a really smart thing by putting it to something that's actually relatable in everyday life. How do you calculate the square footage of a parallelogram? Yeah. Most fun I've ever had teaching. Wow. How many students do you have? We're on a block schedule, so I teach about 80 each semester. Wow, that's a lot of lectures in a semester. Yes, I have about 160 a year. So I figure I've been doing it for three years and I'm probably teaching seven more years before I retire maybe. And so I'll have about 1600 students come through this. And here's the thing. We live In a county, 73% of our students, we're title one school. 73% of our students are free or reduced lunch. Countywide, about 20% live below the poverty line. So if I can take those 1600 students and I can teach them how to manage money, I can teach them how to be wealthy, how to not go into debt, do all the Dave Ramsey stuff and teach them to be generous. We can change the demographics of our county. You can. You're right. You really can. And it'll be all your fault. I tell them all the time, we've got a lot of generational poverty here. I say, you know, you can change this. Not just for you. You can change it for your children, your grandchildren, because you learn to do things like your parents did. Your children will learn to do things like you do. We got it. We got to break some generational curses. And you had a. You had a sponsor pay for the curriculum, a local builder, right? Yes, we did. We did. And we weren't sure we had a different sponsor for the first two years. We weren't sure we were going to get that. I was fixing to start looking for grants and trying to raise money because I cannot imagine not teaching this. If I can't teach this, I'm probably going to be ready to retire. Wow. So Houston Homes, Is that how it's pronounced? Yes, sure is. All right. Very cool. A local. Local home builder bought the curriculum for the high school. Thanks to them, in a county, that's title or in a school is primarily title. One meeting, free lunch. Wow. Right. And for any teachers listening, we're also doing that teacher appreciation giveaway. Dave. Yep, that's right. $5,000 vacation. And two or more teachers are going to win a $3,000 vacation. Go to ramseysolutions.com teacher to enter. We want to celebrate heroes like Hank, not the other kind of teacher. Way to go, Hank. Thank you, brother. Thank you, Hank. I appreciate it. Great talking to you guys. You too, brother. Thank you so much. Real change in your money and relationships is possible. You can break the cycles that have kept you from moving forward. You can build a better future. Future for yourself. And it starts here. Hang out with Dr. John DeLoney. And I live in a city near you for the Money and Relationships tour. Starting next week, we'll be in Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. Time is running out, so grab your tickets while you can@ramseysolutions.com tour. Okay, guys, I got big news. Aldi is now the official grocery sponsor of the Ramsey show. Yeah, Ramsey is teaming up with Aldi, the grocery store that cares as much about saving money as I do. Get this. Aldi branded products save you up to 63% over similar name brand products at other stores. It's great quality and big savings on everything you need with no gimmicks, no membership fees or coupons required. See for yourself how Aldi is saving Americans across the country $8.3 billion a year. So stop paying more and start shopping at Aldi where they have the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you today at Aldi US That's a l D. I usually in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Steve and Michelle are with us. Hey, guys. How are you? Hello. Great. Welcome. Good to have you. Where do you live? Lake Tahoe, Nevada. All right, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $210,000. Yay. And how long did that take? Four and a half years. All right. Love it. And your range of income during that time was 180 to 250. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? She's a teacher and I work for her local fire department. Awesomeness. Very cool. What kind of debt was the 210,000? It was the house. Looking at weird people. Yeah. Love it. And Lake Tahoe real estate's not exactly cheapo. Yeah. So what, what's the. What's the price point on this puppy? What's it worth? Right around 1.6, give or take. Nice. And it's all paid for? Yes, sir. And on top of that, you've got retirement savings? Yes, sir. Holy smokes. And how much have you got in your nest egg? The. Not including the pensions. Yeah, pensions are substantial. Right around 500. Okay. How old are you guys? 46. Yeah, we'll be. Or 46. Be 47 soon. Nice. Way to go. Baby steps, millionaires. Yes, sir. How much of this did you inherit? Zero. None. All right, there it is. I like it. So you did it. A fireman and a teacher with a 2.1 million dollar net worth at 47 years old. Tell me the story. How in the world. Well, we were. We were living the American dream, which is a nightmare, you know. Yeah. In our. In our last house. And we were, you know, house poor paying, had. Had too much of a mortgage and all the cool toys that the Americans get, you know, and like firefighters might get them. Well, yeah, like the cool truck and the RV and the dirt bikes and everything. He's the spender. And so, you know, we we got sick and tired of being broke and. And started thinking about our. Our twins at the time were getting ready to finish high school, and so we're thinking more and more about college or trade school, whatever the next steps might be. We wanted to set them up for success. And so we. We decided to make some. Some big changes and just get after it. When did y'all run into Ramsey stuff? It was right about. Right about the time we started, really. About. About five years ago? Yeah. Yeah, about five, six years ago. I had the book Financial Peace sitting on a shelf for many years, but never opened it. And then we got really nervous about the idea of paying for college or trade school. Got out the book and started realizing that we needed to make some changes in order to be able to help fund them once they graduated high school. So we started. Started. I worked all the overtime I could. She was tutoring on the side, and I started selling everything I could get my hands on. And that kind of became. Its. Took a life of its own on. And I've kind of put a book together on selling things on Facebook Marketplace now. I love it. Ended up with a little bit of an alter ego. And so now I've got a book finishing up in the phases of editing and design to. Good for you. Publish soon. Yeah. For you. All right, so all 210,000 was the house or was there other debt mixed in? Just the house. So, you know, what did you have to. What mindset did you have to have? Because a lot of people would go, you're crazy. Like, you're sacrificing to this level to pay off your house. Can't you just, you know, keep it around like the rest, you know? How did you combat that in your mind? Yeah, well, you know, we. When. When we dove into the. What I'll deem the Ramsey lifestyle, you know, we just. We just decided that we didn't. We didn't want to live as a slave to anybody. I know, that's right. And so we just really buckled down and decided. Just doesn't matter what anybody's saying. We're. We're ready to be weird and own everything that we've got. We. We got rid of any and all car loans, and people thought that was crazy because that's normal. Right. And that really was huge. Yeah. And it all started. The spark that lit the flame was the. Oh, crap moment on college. Yeah, exactly. But what's so cool about that, though, is that once our kids graduated high school, they both actually chose trade school. Our son's A diesel mechanic in Idaho and our daughter is in cosmetology. But there's tons of scholarships out there for trade school. Like for example, micro funded. Probably the biggest piece of pie for our son. Oh, wow. To go to. With Microworks. With Microworks. Yeah. So Mike's a good friend. That's a wonderful, wonderful program they've got. Amazing program. Yes. Yeah. So both the kids, we just started discovering that there's a lot of scholarships out there for trade school. And so it's helped them be able to continue with some of the extra money that they didn't have to spend on tuition to be able to get started in their adult life. Yeah. Exciting. Wow. Very cool. What are you going to do to celebrate? Well, we came to Nashville, so we're going to. We're going to do some more traveling and then just, just try to give back. You know, we now the Saver over here. Where are you buying the Saver? Because the Saver needs something. She's learned she doesn't spend money. She's learned to spend a little more now. Good. We've been, we've been completely debt free for about six months now and I, I'm turning into this spender because. No, you're not. You just relax. What'd you get? What'd you get? What'd you buy? Just more trips. A lot more trips. Trips. Okay. What do you drive? Well, I drive a 2020 Lexus. That's not bad. But he drives. She's. She's like you were sharing saying about Sharon, she drives the gray car. I don't care what I drive. Yeah, I've got a 19. She almost couldn't answer the question. Ye was struggling. I've got a 1996 F250 now. How many times that been redone? It's, it's in the process still. It's been a slow go. I got a feeling this is not a junk truck. It's a baby. Yeah. Okay. All right. The Pavement Princess. My son. All right. Pavement Princess. That's funny. Well done. Very fun, you guys. Congratulations. We're so proud of you. Thank you. Baby steps. Millionaires at 47. Couple million dollar net worth. And by the way, folks, that's a teacher and a fireman. Just write that down. Making 180 to 250 between them. They took on extra jobs, did everything and the house went up in value dramatically while they were paying off the house in dramatic fashion. So all of these, all of this dramatic happens together here. There's a whole, whole series of formulas happening at the same time in this story that are all beautiful. And the main one is that you guys looked in the mirror and said, we're not doing this anymore. And that changes everything. I'm so proud of y'all. Well done. Thank you. How's it feel to be free? Unbelievable. It's amazing. Yeah. Will you ever go back? No, never. The stress level is way too low living like this to go back to what it was. Do anything you want to do. And even our marriage, it just feels like we've grown closer together and having to communicate the budget each month and consistently talking about upcoming expenses and how we're going to afford it and what should we do. So that's really been a relationship builder for us. Well, you get to tell him which trip you're going on next. Okay. What happens at my house? I'm just saying. All right. I love it. Steve and Michelle, Lake Tahoe, Nevada. $210,000 house and everything paid off. 2.1 million dollar debt free net worth at 47 true baby steps millionaires. They paid off the house in four and a half years making 180 to 250. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free. All right. Off Jade. Mathematically speaking, in America today, there is no reason that everyone listening to this cannot become a millionaire. I agree. I agree. It's very possible. Wholeheartedly. Those two are very sharp individuals. They are. But neither one of them are doctors or lawyers. Neither one of them have an expensive whatever right. They just worked and they believed they could do it and did it on purpose instead of consumed and consumed and consumed. That's right. They looked up and said, toys are not the answer. He with the most toys, when he dies is dead. Excellent stuff, guys. Proud of y'all. Well done. This is the Ramsey show. All right, business owners, last call. The pre sale for the brand new book build a business You Love ends April 15th. Pre order now. And get over $350 worth of free bonus items to help you hire smarter, lead stronger and grow faster. This not theory. It's the system I use to grow my company from nothing. And the same framework we've coached thousands of business owners through. You can only get the bonuses@ramseysolutions.com store, so don't wait. Pre order now. Well, it's tax day. Y'all ready? Yeah. Don't wait until the final hours to discover your missing forms or other important info you need to file. Need to get on this now. You can file an Extension. Some states have been given extensions by the IRS this week due to natural disaster. But if you're not in one of those, it's time to file your taxes. And an extension will give not the IRS extension for natural disaster, but a normal extension does not keep you from owing the taxes. The taxes are still due now and the penalties and the interest will kick in now if you don't pay the taxes, even if you file an extension, the extension is only on filing your taxes again. That's a normal extension, not one on natural disasters. So don't risk getting hit with these penalties. Get everything done. If you, if you've got a quick easy return, just Jump on Ramsey Solutions.com SmartTax Download our Smart tax software. It's very, very inexpensive. It's 100% accurate and it's easy. And you can do it in just a few minutes. Literally if you have a simple return 1040 EZ type thing. You're going to do this so fast it's going to be unbelievable. Don't put this off. Don't try to avoid taxes. Denial is not a strategy. It's a river. Okay, so in Egypt. So you need to check that out. Get your taxes done. Ramsey solutions.com smart tax Jasmine is with us in Washington D.C. hi Jasmine, how are you? Hi Dave, how are you? I'm good. Good. How can we help? Hey, so actually you mentioning the taxes what precipitated this whole entire question? So I realized through doing my taxes that I had paid about 8,8k in interest this year and then I got a little bit of a return but not 8.8k back. And I've always heard a lot of people say like oh like your interest is like a tax write off. And I've been thinking about paying my mortgage off for quite a bit. So numbers. Basically I have 165000 on my principal. I have 185 currently in a high yield savings account. That's not all my savings. I do have about 40k in a Roth IRA. Do you have other debt? No, I don't have any car payment. What's your household income? It's just me. I'm about 131. How old are you? I'm 30. Good for you. Well done. Yeah, great job. Okay, so you owe 165. You have 185 in the high yield savings plus other money. You have no debt. You make 1:31. And your question is should I pay off my mortgage? Because somebody said I need the tax deduction for the interest rate? Well, it's that, but my other concerns are just the six months that I have. That leaves me with about 20k. I've always had like 30 at my six months savings. Just. I thought you said you had 40 in the other account. That's in my Roth IRA. Oh, I see. So why, why couldn't you leave the amount in your high yield savings that you would denote as your. What makes you comfortable within the 3 to 6 month range? Pay off what you can and then cash flow, the rest. Wait a minute. Why would three months not be 30k? No, I did six. Six months. Sorry. I know, but you. Why would three months. It's three to six months. In my head. I think I'm just like an over. Like you're a really good saver. Like I want to feel safe that that's there. Like I know at one point I definitely. So how much are you paying on your house every month? My mortgage is 14. A little bit more than 14 is 400, so about 1850 if you want to. You pay extra on it? It. I do. How much I honestly pay? Like it just depends on spurts of like I like to see my numbers even. So if it says it's at like 16.527, I'm going to pay 527 extra just to keep numbers even. But you average paying about 500 bucks a month extra on a 1400 principal and interest payment plus HOA, right. I would say yeah, that's pretty fair. So $2,000 a month could go into a savings account if you didn't have this payment. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, plus your other savings that you're already doing. Yes. How long has it taken you to build this? 185. So I did maybe not the smartest thing. Back in December I did end up two of my 401ks. I did end up cashing those out because I've been thinking about doing this mortgage payoff, but it was only about 67. That was from there and then the rest. How old are you? I'm 30. So you took 67 000, you cashed out a 67, 000 401K with the thought that you might pay off your mortgage with it. Yeah, you know, you know you're going to get. Have you filed your taxes yet? I did. That's. You got destroyed. So ironic. I put more. Okay, so that was what I netted from that 401k withdrawal. But I mean you got destroyed. They taxed you 10% plus your tax rate. So you got hit with a $30,000 tax bill for doing that crap? Yeah. Oh, my God. Did you foresee that? Did you know that that was going to happen? I did. I kind of. In my head. I feel like I should have called you guys before I did that. Yeah, we would have yelled. Should have, could have, would have. I guess what, I guess what I to understand is you did that knowing the implications of it, but yet you're still like, wait, but now I'm unsure about paying off the mortgage at this point. You better be sure and just go on and do it. Since you took the hit for it, you need to write a check tonight and pay off the mortgage. Okay. I mean, otherwise it was all for not okay if you paid the tax bill. Oh, no, you've already. You're withholding is so stinking high. Have you adjusted your withholding back down now that the taxes are cleared? No, I haven't done that. You need to adjust that back down so you got more money coming home. You have a ton of money coming home from the adjusted W4. And then you're going to. Because you've been over withholding to cover this ridiculous mistake. And you're not going to have a house payment anymore after tonight. And so you're going to be able to save three to $5,000 a month. So you're going to put this money back in no time. So write a check tonight and pay off your mortgage, honey. And never borrow from your 401k again. Never, never cash out your 401k ever, until you absolutely have to have it for money, for food, but other than that, don't cash it out. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now. And here's the thing. I've been doing this 35 years. I've told people for 35 years, pay off your mortgage. You know the number of hate letters I have gotten or critical calls from people that said, I paid off my mortgage? Dave Ramsey, I hate you. Zero. I feel like that's small. We can bail our hate mail from ridiculous trollish morons. We get stacks of stuff in here every day criticizing everything we do. But no one that has actually been the person who paid off their mortgage has ever complained about paying off their mortgage. I've never had one complaint on that. Now I have a lot of complaints with a lot of people that have theories about a lot of things and they're broke people with money theories, which is actually kind of cute. But no one who's actually been the person that paid off the mortgage goes, oh, that was a huge mistake. I shouldn't have done that. I'll never build wealth now. They all call me back and go, this is the smartest thing I've ever done in my life. Well, I mean, pay it off tonight. If you say you pay off your house and you hate it, you can always get another mortgage. Exactly. Boy, just run get you another one. If you hate being out of debt, call the bank up. They'll help you. They love to help people like that. They definitely. And I've never had anybody take me up on that. You know, I've never heard of it. I was laying awake at night because debt free was keeping me up and so I had to go get a mortgage. I've never had that call. I've gotten some crazy butt calls on this show in 35 years, but I've never gotten that call. I've never heard it. That's one we don't get. So you're gonna. My point is, Jasmine, you're gonna feel so different as soon as you hit the submit button. You're gonna go, wow, you're like you just were walking around 300 pound weight vest on and you took it off and set the floor. You're gonna breathe deeper than you've ever breathed in your life. What you think this the feeling of security you think you're getting from that savings account. I'm gonna 10x it and say that's the feeling you're gonna get from having a paid for house. It's wonderful. People do not equate it the same that are savers. That's wonderful. But savers even discover that debt freedom takes a weight off of you like nobody's business. Yeah, you can start saving 5,000 bucks a month. In a year you'll have another 60,000 in there. In two years you'll have another 120,000 in there. Not counting the other stuff you do. Wow, way to go, Jasmine. I'm proud of you. Pay it off tonight.