You Can Still Take Charge Of Your Financial Future

Summary

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The Ramsey Show | "You Can Still Take Charge Of Your Financial Future"

Date: October 17, 2025
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman
Network: Ramsey Network
Episode Theme:
Empowering listeners to regain control of their finances and build wealth—no matter past mistakes—through candid coaching, tough love, and practical advice.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the transformative power of taking responsibility for your financial life, no matter your current situation or history with money. Dave Ramsey and co-host Ken Coleman field live calls dealing with identity theft by family, crushing student and consumer debt, co-signing regret, complex family/living situations, and questions about mortgages, car purchases, and entrepreneurship. True to style, the show mixes blunt advice, humor, and motivational stories—culminating with powerful debt-free screams from listeners who’ve turned their financial lives around.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Fraud & Boundaries ([00:46]–[08:20])

• The Situation: Elizabeth from Philadelphia discovers her in-laws are committing identity theft by opening investment accounts in her husband’s name, without consent, and refusing transparency.

• Dave’s Reaction: Shoots straight—calls the father-in-law a “criminal”, warns of SEC-level consequences, and insists they are underreacting.

  "Your father in law is a con artist... This is criminal freaking fraud." — Dave ([01:50])

• Advice:

  • Get fiercely protective: Demand all fraudulent accounts be shut down within 48 hours.

  • File a police report if not resolved and communicate threats clearly.

  • Consult an attorney; don’t be complicit—this is serious criminal activity.

  • Stand up emotionally: Don't let family guilt or "scripts" keep you from doing what is legally and ethically right.

    "You’ve never met the word called boundaries. And we want to introduce it to you." — Dave ([05:06])

    "Your family script is cuckoo.” — Dave ([08:20])

• Tone: Blunt, urgent, with humor to deliver tough love and call out passivity.

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2. Over-Education, Under-Income, & Escaping the Debt Trap ([10:51]–[19:46])

• Sandra’s Call: Buried under $628,000 debt, including student loans for four degrees, making ~$115k/year, struggling post-second job loss.

• Insights:

  • The biggest issue isn’t overspending but under-earning given her education.

  • Urged to leverage her intellectual property law credentials for higher income.

  • Avoid the “more education equals more money” fallacy; focus on marketable skills that pay.

  • Consider extra work or selling the house to speed things up if practical.

    "You have more degrees than a thermometer." — Dave ([16:33])

    “What you should be valuing is the knowledge, not the actual degree and the application of the knowledge in the marketplace.” — Dave ([19:46])

• Ken’s Addition:

  • Warns of the temptation to hide in education to avoid uncertainty.
  • Encourages listeners to get active in the marketplace while figuring it out—not to delay “real life.”

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3. Car Debt: Keep It, Kill It, or Kick It? ([22:01]–[25:53])

• John’s Call: Owes $34,000 on a car worth $31k+, $10k in cash, income of ~$100k.

• Dave’s Math:

  • If you can pay off the deficit aggressively (1 year or less), keep the car.

  • If pay-off will drag on (2 years+), sell and move on; don’t “swim with a boat anchor.”

    “Trying to swim with a boat anchor around your ankle—it's no fun. You get to end up drowning.” — Dave ([25:32])

• General Rule: Sacrifice, focus, and rapid payoff—use "big number math," not payment mentality.

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4. Save, Sell, or Invest? — Mortgage Payoff Strategy ([27:18]–[30:39])

• Brooks from Charlotte: Asks whether to cash out sizeable investments ($202k brokerage, $83k savings) to pay off a $273k mortgage.
• Dave’s Breakdown:

  • Make sure to cover capital gains tax before cashing out.

  • Retain emergency fund; consider waiting till January for tax timing.

  • Key: No “wussified” indecision—be decisive but wise about timing.

    "That's very non-wussified. Brooks, I'm proud of you." — Dave ([30:28])

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5. Co-Signing: Why You “Never, Ever” Should ([32:37]–[39:44])

• Jessica’s Dilemma: Co-signed daughter’s car loan, still on the hook despite her daughter paying reliably.
• Dave’s Rule:

  • Pay off personal debts first, then the co-signed car.

  • If she pays off her daughter’s car debt, set up repayment arrangement.

  • Cosigning is always a bad idea; it’s a “contingent liability" and often ends badly.

    “One lacking in sense cosigns for another…If you co-sign for someone else, you’re stupid.” — Dave ([37:33])

    “Don’t act like you’re doing someone a favor by helping them buy something they can’t afford.” — Dave ([37:44])

Memorable banter:
Ken quips, “So the moral of the story is, don't do debt and don't buy small underwear.” — ([39:29])

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6. Complicated Family Real Estate & Caregiving ([44:43]–[52:16])

• Vanessa’s Story: After combining households (mom paid down payment, Vanessa paid mortgage), they’re splitting up and selling. Unsure whether to give mom her down payment money back.
• Advice:

  • No written contract—ethically unclear, but “stupid’s not illegal,” and you don’t deprive someone of property just because they’re difficult or might misuse funds.

  • Suggestion: Hold money in an earmarked account for her, disburse as needed for care, and maintain control.

    “Treat other people like you want to be treated. Always a good rule.” — Dave ([52:16])

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7. Is It Ever Too Late? Financial Baby Steps at Any Age ([54:47]–[59:44])

• Susan at 72: $41k credit card debt after tragic life events, worried it's too late for Ramsey’s “baby steps.”

• Dave & Ken: Absolutely not too late—get to sustainability, then focus on wealth. If possible, take a short-term job to turbocharge debt payoff.

  “The power of compound interest, if you were 22, would work to your favor…but at any age, first get to sustainability.” — Dave ([55:11])

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8. Side Hustles, Seasonal Work, and Making Excuses ([60:42]–[63:29])

• Melody & Husband: Self-employed, seasonal income, $4k credit card debt and $5k in savings, fear of “dry season.”
• Hosts' Tough Love:

  • “Why don’t you work jobs not affected by the season?”

  • Both push for action over excuses, encourage any work (Santa photos, shelf stocking) to avoid dipping into savings.

    “Getting jobs as you do making excuses, you’d have no money problem.” — Dave ([63:29])

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9. Debt-Free Stories: Hope & Inspiration

Mitchell & Sarah, Anchorage, AK ([66:10]–[74:45])

• Paid off $217,000 in 3 years.
• Income grew from $100k to $172k, made big sacrifices after tragedy.
• Key Lessons:

  • Short-term sacrifice, focus on why (“a life of peace”), communication/teamwork, and willingness to relocate for opportunity.

    “We needed to make some change...Being willing to sacrifice, especially for the short term, with the end goal in mind.”— Sarah ([70:30])

    "You guys have been bench-pressing like 400 pounds." — Ken ([71:03])

Brent & Polly, Bend, OR ([106:16]–[115:20])

• Paid off $286,452 in 6.5 years; with income rising from $108k to $170k.

• Flipped furniture and worked long hours to grind through mortgage, car, and phone debt.

• Key: “Get your butt to work”—work, side hustle, hustle, budget, teamwork, and trade the “payment game” for real financial freedom.

  “My alarm would go off at 1am every morning and I’d start work...We had our side hustle...Anything on the side of the road was mine.” — Brent & Polly ([113:48])

  “We want to wake up and just breathe and not work…just for a piece of metal in the driveway?” — Polly ([112:08])

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10. Other Notable Q&As

• Lease vs. Buy (Lauren, Toronto) ([76:03]–[80:05]):
  • “Spending $10,000 to ‘save’ $4,500 in taxes is a bad trade. Don’t lease cars for ‘business write-offs.’” — Dave
• Paying Back Bankrupt Business Debt (Matthew, SLC) ([118:48]–[126:15]):
  • Not required ethically, but if you feel spiritually called to repay discharged debts, do so at your own pace.
  • “You can never go wrong leaning towards integrity...or weird fanatical integrity.” — Dave ([125:15])
• Parenting a Young ‘Entrepreneur’ (Steve, Columbus) ([87:00]–[95:42]):
  • Encourage entrepreneurial spirit if real profit is being made. Otherwise, teach real work ethic: business profit & loss, cost analysis, and character-building.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Bluntest Zinger:
  “We've been told we're not to talk about this. Well, you by God better. You can talk about it from cell block C if you want.” — Dave ([02:26])
• On education as a panacea:
  “You collected more degrees than a thermometer.” — Dave ([16:33])
• On debt:
  “Don’t act like you’re doing someone a favor by helping them buy something they can’t afford...If you cosign for someone else, you’re stupid.” — Dave ([37:44])
• On breaking the payment habit:
  “You spend hours researching…put in the work searching for insurance coverage too.” — Dave ([106:16])
• On debt-free living:
  “It’s like you have bricks in your backpack and you take them all out...We’re free.” — Polly ([109:09])
• On entrepreneurship and work ethic:
  “If part of me teaching you work ethic is to also teach you some business principles and encourage your entrepreneurial spirit, I’m willing to do that. I am not willing, as a person living under my roof, to let you kid yourself and burn a bunch of activity, make no money, and call that a job.” — Dave ([91:47])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [00:46] — Elizabeth’s Fraud Call
• [10:51] — Sandra’s Crushing Debt/Education Call
• [22:01] — John’s Car Debt Dilemma
• [27:18] — Brooks’ Mortgage Payoff Q&A
• [32:37] — Jessica’s Co-signing Regret
• [44:43] — Vanessa’s Complicated Family Home Situation
• [54:47] — Susan (72 & Deep in Debt) Calls In
• [60:42] — Melody’s Seasonal Income Woes
• [66:10] — Mitchell & Sarah’s Debt-Free Scream (Anchorage)
• [87:00] — Steve’s Teenage Entrepreneur Q
• [106:16] — Brent & Polly’s Debt-Free Scream (Bend)
• [118:48] — Matthew’s Bankruptcy Ethics Q

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Tone, Language, and Style

• Direct, no-nonsense, sometimes sarcastic: Dave pulls no punches in calling out bad behavior or lack of urgency.
• Supportive, empathetic, but tough: Both hosts affirm callers’ pain and challenges while urging actionable change.
• Relatable humor: Used to diffuse tense topics and encourage (or jolt) listeners.
• Faith-infused values: Stressed especially regarding integrity, responsibility, and stewardship.

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For Newcomers or Non-Listeners

This episode is a quintessential slice of The Ramsey Show: fast-paced, frank, and transformational. Full of real stories, hard truths, and actionable advice with hope at the finish line. Listeners are shown—not just told—that financial freedom is possible regardless of mistakes or circumstances, but it requires grit, honesty, and an urgent commitment to change.

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Ready to change your financial future? No matter your history, the journey starts with one bold (and possibly uncomfortable) step—today.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one best selling author and host of the brand new runaway hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. He's my co host today. Open phones at 888, 825-5225. Elizabeth's in Philadelphia. Hi, Elizabeth, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Wonderful.

My husband and. I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay.

[Caller]

My husband and I are debt free and we were looking into investing and at the advice of a family member, our in laws, they suggested to use a site that they had been using. And when we tried to create an account, we found that my husband's Social Security number was already in use. And we have been told not to look into that further. We can't create the account because his Social Security is in use. And we found out essentially that investments and things are being made in his name. Even though he's requested that they stop. They're sending us quote unquote refund checks for the taxes that we pay on these investments. How, how can we get away from this situation essentially and be financially independent of our in laws?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your father in law is a con artist. I mean, yeah, he's a criminal. This is criminal freaking fraud.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to own this emotionally. This guy's not only out of control, he's like, go to jail. Out of control. You're screwing around with the securities and Exchange Commission with fraudulent transactions. All of y' all are messing up. You're messing up by allowing it to occur. And he's go to jail time if they can. Good God, people.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. See the difference in how I reacted and how y' all reacted? We've been told. We've been told we're not to talk about this. Well, you by God better. You can talk about it from cell block C if you want.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Have you measured your jumpsuits? Just to see how you look at them.

[Caller]

They'll probably be short.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I'm just saying I don't know how.

[Ken Coleman]

You look in orange, but you should probably look into that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So this is what's known as a. A family that puts the fun in dysfunctional. So when is your husband going to call his dad and mom and say, guys, you need to shut all of these accounts down in the next 48 hours or I'm filing a police report.

[Caller]

So we've done that. We just haven't filed the police report.

[Dave Ramsey]

You told them that? Yes, and they did not shut them down.

[Caller]

We didn't tell them we were going to file a police report, but we've requested multiple times, very sternly, I'll say that in a polite way, to take the name off. Get rid of it. We don't want anything to do with it. Cease and desist.

[Ken Coleman]

What was their reaction?

[Caller]

Oh, we're doing this for your future.

[Dave Ramsey]

Kiss my butt.

[Ken Coleman]

You guys suck at poker as well. I'd love to play poker against you all.

[Dave Ramsey]

You fold on everything.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, they just push you around.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is nutto. Yeah. Say, hey, I got a plan for you. I don't want you in my future because my future looks like jail time right next to you. And I don't need a future that involves you. I'm being really bold and weird and crazy and overdramatic here, but my point is that you guys have not been strong enough on this. Okay, maybe not as crazy as I've been for the last few minutes. But seriously, you guys gotta get up on this and say, listen, we've talked to an attorney. What you're doing is illegal. You're harming us. I know you think you're doing something good, but you're not. Not. And you have 48 hours to send us proof that you've shut down all of these accounts or, Mom, I'm filing a police report on you and dad. Do you. Do you understand here? And this is your husband doing it, not you, because it's his freaking parents. Good Lord.

[Ken Coleman]

Why are you on the phone with us and not him?

[Caller]

Well, he wasn't exactly a fan of this. And when I. Our last conversation that we all had around this and after that ended, I said, I'm going to call the Ramsey show, and he just kind of laughed. I guess he didn't think I was really going to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, now you can play this back for the whole family if you want. You know, I think you can send it to mom and dad. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And I think you need to make sure you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, mom and dad, if you happen to hear this, you suck. This is horrible what you're doing to your children. I know you think you're being smart, but you are way out of control. You've never met the word called boundaries. And we want to introduce it to you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, here's the thing. You're complicit in this now. And it's kind of scary that you called the show and you've said that you're complicit in it, because I think you've laughed. And I'm not trying to be a downer here.

[Dave Ramsey]

She was nervous.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, but it's not funny. There's actually nothing funny about this. I hope you hear the urgency. I don't think Dave was too extreme. I actually think that's what you should do, because I don't even know. I'm no legal expert, and I haven't played one on tv, but I do think this thing is far more serious as to what you all know than you actually realize.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there's probably other stuff going on.

[Ken Coleman]

I'd be terrified.

[Dave Ramsey]

Usually when you tip something like this over, a raccoon runs out with the trash. Yeah.

[Caller]

And.

And honestly, we kind of suspected that recently, just with how adamant they were, because since this account's in my husband's social, he could easily call the company and, you know, get detailed information. And it was like, don't you dare. Like, you don't need to be looking in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he still hasn't. And we need to run your husband down to Walmart and have him pick up a backbone on aisle three. He'. Y' all are gonna have to deal with this, honey. It's a mess. Y' all are mess. Y' all are a hot mess. Oh, my gosh. So, you know, the first time I ever ran into this was a long, long time ago when I. It was like, decades ago. We started hearing the word identity theft. I'd never heard the word before. And it started coming up, you know, the Internet started having more prolification. And, you know, when I started the show, there was no Internet. That's how long the show's been on the air. So. But I started hearing that, and then I got just. I just got hillbilly mad because some guy calls in and goes, I'm 24, and my mom has seven credit cards that she opened in my name when I was 12 and 14 years old. And I'm like, your mother is a freaking criminal. She stole your identity. And. And. And. And the problem is the victim is just like her husband. They're like, well, it's just kind of how our family does things. Your family's full of criminals. That's how your family does things. Your family has how the legalities, how the legal system works in America today. And when you're doing investments, you're now involving the securities and Exchange Commission. It's not simply banking laws. I mean, banking laws are credit card theft, right? Or identity theft. With opening a credit card, you start opening a dadgum mutual fund with a licensed broker. Oh, my God. You don't understand.

[Ken Coleman]

They love to make examples of people like this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Especially stupid people. They really do.

[Ken Coleman]

The people that investigate this kind of stuff are the most uptight investigators. They are purists. This is scary stuff. And I just wonder what else is going on. When the dad says, don't look into.

[Dave Ramsey]

This, don't look, don't look under the covers.

[Ken Coleman]

Dave, I, I, I'm serious here when I ask you this. I'm trying to put myself in the position. If this was me, I would call the company and prove to the company that I'm the actual person with the Social Security.

[Dave Ramsey]

Find out, find out the depth of what's going on. But that's only, there's only one company that you found so far.

[Ken Coleman]

I wouldn't threaten the parents. I just go ahead.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would do both. And I do it by nightfall. I mean, before the sun sets on the horizon. It's putting things off. Cause the problem is there's a family script here that says don't look, which makes me worried about this. I'm here to say the emperor has no clothes. Okay? Your family script is cuckoo. If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt, you don't need another debt relief company trying to sell you sunshine and unicorns. You need real help. And Guardian Litigation Group is the real deal. They're not a call center. They're actual attorneys. That means when a creditor tries to sue you, they can step into the courtroom and fight back. Now, listen, debt settlement isn't pretty. It's not a magic wand. And I'd prefer you get out of debt the old fashioned way. But if you're staring down bankruptcy and you've got no other way out, Guardian gives you a path to clean up the mess without paying a dime up front. Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the nation settle over $600 million of debt. So if you're ready to take back control of your life and stop cringing every time the phone rings, go to guardianlit.com Ramsey that's guardianlit.com Ramsey paid endorsement.

[Ken Coleman]

Attorney advertising Guardian Litigation Group LLP not available in Minnesota and Oregon. Results vary and no specific outcome is guar. Guaranteed debt settlement may negatively affect credit, and not all creditors will negotiate or settle. Savings vary and may be taxable Please review our website terms for more information.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sandra's in Chicago. Hey, Sandra, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. I had a question, a financial question. I am in total $628,000 in debt. I have a home that I purchased a little over a year ago for 335,000. I have student loan debt of 260,000, and I have credit card debt for $33,000. I had two jobs at one point. My second job, I no longer work as of six months ago. So now I'm just using my primary income. And I was trying to figure out the quickest way to pay this debt down. Things are getting tough with me paying.

[Dave Ramsey]

The minimum $260,000 in student loan debt. Are you a doctor or a lawyer?

[Caller]

I'm in the legal profession. Close to a lawyer, but not. I do legal research for lawyers.

[Dave Ramsey]

What'd you spend $260,000 to become?

[Caller]

I have four degrees.

[Dave Ramsey]

In what?

[Caller]

I have a associate's degree in biological science. I have a bachelor's degree in English. I have a master's degree in library science, and I have a second master's in intellectual property law, which is a law degree, but. So that's where all the debt came from.

[Dave Ramsey]

The. Is that not a master's in jurisprudence? Can't you set for the bar?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Huh.

[Caller]

I'm not sure. I haven't done that research on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like law school.

[Caller]

I could check it, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, law school is a master's.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

You've got a degree in research. I heard. You should probably look into that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I will.

[Caller]

After a phone call.

[Dave Ramsey]

I will.

[Ken Coleman]

Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's nasty.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I mean, it's right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do you make?

[Caller]

Right now? I'm. I'm over six figures. And then the second job I was making close to like 25, 000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing what?

[Caller]

I was consulting in the library world. Doing consulting work, helping them build their libraries back up. Libraries that are having issues, they either.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don'T pay much or. You weren't working much. 25 grand, huh?

[Caller]

Yeah, I wasn't doing a whole lot. Maybe about 15, 20 hours a week, if that.

[Dave Ramsey]

15, 20 hours a week for 25 grand a year is not much. That's horrible. No. Per hour. Wow. Okay. Well, what. What as a parent is that you have a lot of education and a lot of upside potential. Therefore, on your income, if we can figure out a way to apply that education in a way that makes you more money, which is what you need is more money and not more Degrees, you have plenty of those. So. Yeah, I mean, you've got. It's an income issue really. And you don't go buy a $300,000 house when you have $300,000 in student loans. That was bass ackwards. But the.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you single?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

How old are you single parent? 45.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So what I would start asking myself is what use of some of this education can I do in the marketplace to make the most money and what combination of that? So if library consulting only pays a dollar an hour, I don't really want to do that. Okay. But if I can get some serious money going for some of these different things that you know how to do that you're knowledgeable in, even if it's two things or three things, I don't care. But I want some serious money. And you don't really have serious money coming from any of these, given your level of education. I mean, making 100,000 bucks or 120,000 bucks or whatever with 14 degrees is not. I mean, you're not. This is not working. So do you need to sit for the bar and become an attorney and make 300,000 or do you need to apply your master's in library in the form of education and make an extra 100,000 as a professor on the side doing that? I don't know. I don't know what the answer to this is, but it appears to me, unless, you know, I don't think we can sell off enough stuff here to fix the underperformance of your education without fixing the. Now if you get all those things going and you want to speed it up and sell the house, that'll be okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, but how much equity do you have in the house?

[Caller]

I think about 15,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's not enough. Just bought it.

[Ken Coleman]

What is your actual income?

[Dave Ramsey]

You never.

[Ken Coleman]

You just said six figures. What's the actual number?

[Caller]

Around 115. 117.

[Ken Coleman]

Instead of consulting with libraries, which is a dead end business, and I'm not trying to be unkind, there's just no growth there. There's no income there. What can you do in that additional 15 to 20 hours a week with the expertise and experience you have to make some real extra money in the law space, legal space. What can you do?

[Dave Ramsey]

Intellectual property. I mean, yeah, that's a solid and.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't have to answer it, but that's the homework assign for you, is how do I make an additional 50 to 75,000 while I'm deciding what the passing the Bar looks like. That's, that's what you've got to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thinking, Sandra, I, I might be wrong. And, and I'll give you a 50% chance that I am. Okay? And so you don't have to take this directly on the chin unless it applies. But it sounds like you fell for the lie that if I get education, people will hand me money and they're not. And you did. And then you went and got another piece of education and then another piece of education. You've collected more degrees than a thermometer. And so, you know, you just keep collecting them. But that's. People that do that generally are one of two things. They are trying to hide and they want to stay in school and they're trying to hide from reality. And so they just keep. They're a professional student or they fell for the L. I think you're in the second one. I think you fell for the lie that if I was just told by my mama, if you just get a college degree, that life is going to be great. And that's a lie. Okay? And so you've got to think about how the knowledge that you have gained and you're a very knowledgeable person, you've got, we can poke fun at all the degrees, but you also have a breadth of knowledge. It's pretty impressive. And so you got to think about how I can actually, from a utilitarian perspective, take that knowledge and use it to make as much money as possible. And if that had been your goal from the start, you probably would have a different list of degrees and fewer. And so, and it's a mistake people make all the time, they think if I just would go to college and get a four year degree, that the degree, the degree is useless. The knowledge you get while you're getting the degree, ladies and gentlemen, now that knowledge is great power, assuming it is power, assuming it's knowledge that the marketplace wants. And to your point, not picking on libraries or anything, but we live in a digital age and the Dewey decimal system is not exactly high on people's knowledge list right now or usage.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you've got public libraries. The key word there is public and therefore it's government funded. And libraries are way down the list of the politicians budget items. And so that's why that's really honestly a dead end. You know, I'll just add one thing to what you said, Dave, because a lot of people listening want to expand this to a larger audience. Here's the voice of temptation you will hear if you find yourself in A situation like this, I'm not doing anything because I don't know what I want to do. So I should probably do something. And I know if I don't know what I should be doing, I should be doing something valuable. And you quickly go, oh, if I continue learning, at least that's valuable. And what happens is you exchange uncertainty and the fear that comes with that for certainty and what you think is the future for that. And to Dave's point, that is not a good exchange. Accept uncertainty and know that I can at least get out and step out of the uncertain and I can be active and I can connect and I can do some work while I'm figuring it out. But continuing to push uncertainty down the road ends up in this kind of financial liability. That's really the temptation. A lot of good people, smart people do this. And I'm telling you, avoid this, avoid that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, when we were doing the documentary Borrowed Future, we had a lot of discussions of people like me, that I was the first in my family, in my generation, in my immediate family tree to get a four year degree. And if you're the first, a lot of times you value the wrong things. What you should be valuing is the knowledge, not the actual degree and the application of the knowledge in the marketplace. And that keeps you from signing up for too expensive a degree and the wrong degrees.

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[Dave Ramsey]

The EveryDollar team is offering a free live budgeting workshop this month. In Budgeting 101, you learn how to make a budget with every dollar, get tips from our experts and even ask questions in a live. Plus, you'll get a step by step walkthrough of every dollar's features so you can use the App with confidence. Budgeting 101 gives you the support you need to stick to a budget and know you're doing it the right way. Sign up for Budgeting 101 for free at ramseysolutions.com workshops. John is in Atlanta. Hi, John, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Thanks.

[Caller]

Hey, I just want to first say.

Thank you for all you do.

My question is, I've been following the baby steps. They've been knocking some debt and it's been going well. I'm down to my last debt, which is a car. 34,000 on it currently, and it's worth about 31, 32.

My question is, should I go ahead.

And buy the negative equity, just pay.

That off, sell it, essentially pay the.

Negative equity and then buy a beater.

For the time being or just try.

To pay off the car fast and.

Just keep going with the debt? Snowball.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

Just north of 100k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so how fast do you pay the car off.

[Caller]

Currently?

Pay it off and I've got some extra cash I could pay towards it.

So I.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much cash do you have? Huh?

[Caller]

I can put about 7,000 towards it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and once you do that. No, no, no, no. That wasn't what I asked. What I asked was how much cash you have.

[Caller]

Yeah, I got 7,000 to put.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's your. No, you said to put. I'm asking how much cash you have, not how much you have to put. How much money do you have?

[Caller]

Just $10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so you determined the three left in the account was the proper amount. We think it's one. So you have nine that you could put towards it. Do you have any other non retirement investments? No. Are you married?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she make?

[Caller]

She.

That's included.

Just north of 100 is including the household.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's household income. Good. Okay, good. Perfect. And no other assets anywhere except $10,000 in your name that aren't retirement assets?

[Caller]

That's correct. Yeah, we've been paying down pretty aggressively.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Good for you. Okay. Well done. All right. If I woke up in your shoes, I would put 9 towards it and leave $1000 in the account. Be on dollar budget and you and your wife sit down, know where every dollar is going before the month begins. Make every dollar behave. You'll feel like you've gotten a raise. And if you squeeze every dollar out of your life, how fast can you pay off $24,000?

[Caller]

Definitely.

Well, you need less than 24 months, probably 18 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's wussy. How about one year? That's $2,000 a month. 24 from 100, plus or minus an extra job, plus or minus selling some stuff. And we're talking no eating out, no going on vacation. Beans and rice. Rice and beans. Do you like this car that much? Enough to keep it, to fight for it like that for a year?

[Caller]

Yeah, you know, I think so. I think when you look at the.

Used car market, what I've been looking at is I was looking at something real cheap, but my wife needs something.

Reliable for the kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's her car.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, what are you driving?

[Caller]

I have a paid for pickup truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how old?

[Caller]

It's six years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 20, 19. Nice truck. Okay, cool. Okay. Yeah. I mean that if I woke up in your shoes and I like the car, I would be on beans and rice and the car would be paid off in under a year. Under those circumstances. Circumstances, I would keep it. If you're going to drag it out two years, I would sell it.

[Caller]

That's there, that's there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Too long. Too long. Trying to, trying to swim with a boat anchor around your ankle. It's no fun. You get to end up drowning. It's not fun. So you got it. You got to break the cycle here. So, guys, I can help you all with some of this because some of you listen and listen and listen, listen, listen, and then still walk in here into the bear in the bear stand the.

[Ken Coleman]

And get called wussy, by the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I didn't say he's a wussy. I said that's wuss.

[Ken Coleman]

I know, but wussies, a fun word. I like that. You brought that back.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a lack of intense sacrificial involvement. Okay, the. So what Ken and I what any of the Ramsey personalities and I. And what I've. What I've always done, what I've always taught them to do is we just do look at big numbers, okay? 100 minus 24 leaves that family enough to live on. That's how I did it in a year. And then 24 divided by 12 is $2,000 a month. So it's fairly easy. It's sixth grade math done fairly quickly in my minor brain here. And so that's, you know, so when you're looking at stuff, ask yourself, okay, I make $175,000 a year and I'm gonna pay off 75,000 and I'm gonna do it over four years. Well, no, no, we're going to take 175 minus 75 and leave you whining about living on 100. Okay. And get it done in one year. Or maybe we did it in six months and lived on really beans and rice instead of acting like you're rich or something because you're broke. And so this is the kind of stuff, these are the mentalities. But if you'll just take those big numbers and start shuffling, do big number math like that, you can know what we're going to tell you. It's going to come in pretty quick. Brooks is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Brooks.

[Caller]

Hey, Dave and Ken. Hope you're both well.

[Dave Ramsey]

We are, sir. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I'll try not to be a wussy on this question.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's T ball, baby.

[Ken Coleman]

There we go.

[Caller]

So my question is, should my wife and I withdraw our funds from our non retirement brokerage and savings account to pay off our home?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe on your home?

[Caller]

273.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much is in the brokerage?

[Caller]

202 and 83 in a Wells Fargo savings account.

[Dave Ramsey]

So enough to knock it out and still have an emergency fund?

[Caller]

Yeah, that was my other question. Was capital gains tax and emergency fund. What would your recommendations be?

[Dave Ramsey]

An emergency fund. And make sure you have the capital gains banked. What's your household income?

[Caller]

I'm the only one that works. My wife stays home with our daughter. I make 110before taxes with potential for another hundred in sales.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, 100% of what we're talking about is not taxable, but only the gain on it is taxable. And the money market's probably got very little gain. And if it does have gain, it's taxable not at capital gains, but at ordinary income. So it's only the brokerage account itself. What did it start out at? What's your basis in that account?

[Caller]

From what I've been able to calculate, it would tax about 81,000 of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 15% of 81,000.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. So it's been sitting there a while. Yeah. Okay, so 12 grand, right?

[Caller]

Give or take. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so wait a minute, you said you. We got 280 to work with. No, no. 80 and 2. What?

[Caller]

The mortgage is 273 and roughly 285 to pay it off with because you.

[Ken Coleman]

Got 202 in the brokerage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you have 15,000 in your emergency fund and you need to save 12,000 before tax time. Yes, I think you can do that. Making 100 with no house payment.

[Caller]

Yeah, the mortgage is 1870.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. Now, if you just took your house payment, put it up, you'd have enough for your. For your capital gains tax. When it comes to April 15th of 2026.

[Caller]

Would you consider waiting till January to wait for the 2027 tax season?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, okay, I might, I might. Just to help your cash flow. Yeah. Because this is a little tight. If you had zero money left and you had to pay off your house, you had no emergency fund left, I would not tell you to pay it off.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I would tell you to wait till January. And we're kind of on the bubble on that. I mean, you got a little bit here, but. Yeah. Yeah. Because that kicks it out. It kicks it out almost 14, 15 months then by doing that. Yeah, that's. That's a good. Okay. I do, man. But gosh, I mean, be ready. Like, I'm talking, like you pop a champagne cork at New Year's and you write a check. Right.

[Caller]

For sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, don't, don't hesitate here. Don't, don't, don't rethink this and over analyze it and all that kind of stuff. But that's a, that's a, That's a valid question. Sitting here in late October, we're only talking about 60 days. I mean, think. But Christmas only 10 weeks away.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's not a. If we were earlier in the year, I probably wouldn't. But since we're right here on the threshold anyway. Yeah, that's a good. That's very non wussified. Brooks, I'm proud of you.

[Ken Coleman]

I like. That's how we started every call. Wuss or no wuss.

[Dave Ramsey]

To wuss or not to us. Yeah, there you go, Brooks, you're fun, man.

[Ken Coleman]

Shakespeare would have loved that. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, here's the truth. I have great friends, a strong faith, an amazing wife and family, and I've even got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet, the times that I've spent with a great therapist across my life have made all the difference for me. The right therapist can change everything. And this month, my friends at Better Help are shining the spotlight on therapists. These are people who truly make the world a better place. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world. And BetterHelp works. Their average rating of 4.9 out of 5 proves it. Plus, BetterHelp is totally online, so it's easy to fit into your schedule. To get started, you just answer a few simple questions, and they'll connect you with a licensed therapist that helps fit your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. This month we celebrate the therapists who've helped millions of people take the next right step forward. If you're ready to find the therapist that's right for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Visit BetterHelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? If your private student loans are in default, you need a lender who sees you and meets you where you are. Why Refi offers low fixed rate plans based on your real ability to pay. Learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not in.

[Ken Coleman]

All states Today's question comes from Jessica in Illinois. Before getting serious about following the baby steps, I co signed a car loan for my 22 year old daughter. I have two credit card balances to tackle besides her car and I will be debt free. She owes 12,000 on the car and I have 20,000 in credit card debt. Do I finish paying my personal debt and move on to baby step three or do I include her car note in my debt snowball? She has not missed a payment and has not asked for help paying, but I just really want to be done with it so it's not hanging over both of our heads. That being said, I'm so I'm also nervous about only having my starter emergency fund and savings at one to move on to baby step three as soon as possible. Tell her Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we're going to pay off the car after you pay off your credit cards because the car is under control right now. It's not in panic. So we'll put it at the back of the debt snowball and clear your credit cards and then clear the car and then work something out with your daughter so that she repays you since you're paying off her car early. Okay? Because there's several problems with this that that lay in the future if she gets laid off, gets in a car wreck, has a medical event, anything like that, this is going to come back on you. It's what we call a contingent liability, which means it's a liability and meaning they're going to come after you and by the way they're going to come after you really fast and they're going to skip over her because they never thought she was going to pay it in the first place. That's why they wanted to co sign her. And so they're going to come straight at you if something goes wrong. And I mean, I'm not predicting horrible things happening to your daughter, but you know, life just says things happen and that's why we never co sign. So I have co signed and I ended up paying it. And when I went bankrupt in my 20s, a friend of mine had co signed for some stuff and he ended up paying it. I went back and paid him back, even though the bankruptcy said I didn't have to. But I wasn't gonna burn my buddy just cause he was dumb enough to co sign and I was dumb enough to let him. But let me just tell you, the most aggressively marketed product in the United States today is debt. Debt is sold as a product more aggressively. More sophistication, more money, more bandwidth is spent selling you folks debt because it's so profitable than any other product. I mean, you think you've seen a Chevy Silverado run through a mud puddle on every football program for the last 20 years and you think Chevy spends money on that? It's nothing compared to what Visa, MasterCard, American Express and your local bank spends to get you to co sign a car for your kid. Okay? They spend money convincing you and they've convinced an entire culture generationally that the only way to prosper, the only way to get what I need is to go to the bank. The only way my daughter gets a car, they've convinced you and brainwashed you of that so that you co sign because she couldn't get the car on her own. Now, if debt is so profit profitable that they will literally fire a teller if they don't get enough home equity loan applications in while you're making deposits. Victoria's Secret literally does not sell small underwear. It really sells credit cards. So much so that if you ask the ladies that work there, if they don't sell a certain number of credit cards per shift, they get fired. They make more money on credit than they do small underwear. Same at the car lot, same everywhere else. Okay? And so if this is the most aggressively marketed product, and if they want to sell debt more than they want to live, eat and breathe, and they won't loan your daughter money, something's really wrong because they really want to learn her money. And if those people, the sharks, will not loan her money, your sweet little daughter, your sweet little grandson who wants his pickup, your daughter who just went through a nasty divorce, if they won't loan her money, it's because she's not gonna pay it back. So don't act like that. You're doing somebody a favor by helping them buy something they can't afford. That's what you do when you cosign. It's stupid. As a matter of fact, it says it in the Bible. Proverbs 17:18 says, One lacking in sense cosigns for another. And if you look up 1718 in the CEV, the contemporary English version, this is not a joke, this is a fact. Look it up. It says if you co. Sign for someone else, you're stupid. That's what it says. Because of what I just described. And so poor Jessica. I'm not calling you stupid, but I'm calling you what you did. Stupid. Stupid. You were trying to help. You're sweet. You're trying to help your daughter, all that, but, yeah. So what do we do with stupid? We get out of it as fast as we can because it's going to tackle you by the ankles later. If you're coming up from behind, look out. Look over your shoulder. So, and folks, the next time you get ready to cosign for someone, just remember, it's stupid. I mean, straight up biblically stupid. Don't do it. If the most aggressively marketed product in the nation will not loan your friend, your daughter, your son, your grandson, whatever it is, whoever it is you're trying to quote, help by getting them a car payment. God help you. If they won't loan them money, it's because they can't pay it. And they're not even looking to them. They're looking to you. And that's what this is for. So please. And I've done it. I'm not saying it. I'm just saying been decades ago, but I still remember how stupid I felt when I wrote those checks. I knew this. I knew this guy's a deadbeat. I knew he. I knew the bank was right. The bank wouldn't loan him money. But I'm so smart, I'm going to help him, and then I get to pay the bill. And you know what I wrote on the 4 column on the check? Stupid tax. That's good. I paid some stupid tax. Tax on your life when you're stupid. And I paid plenty of stupid tax in my life. And some of y' all have to try not to do it. So I'm trying to help you with this.

[Ken Coleman]

So the moral of the story is, don't do debt and don't buy small underwear.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is that right, Ken? You're very precise. On your listening folks.

[Ken Coleman]

I am locked in. I'm locked in, folks. Want to make sure you're catching the lesson.

[Dave Ramsey]

I did not.

[Ken Coleman]

That's not what I said.

[Dave Ramsey]

I did not say small underwear was off the menu. He did not. I just said financing it. That's all I said.

[Ken Coleman]

Some guy in the audience got very excited out there. He elbowed his wife, Kayla.

[Dave Ramsey]

Kayla's in Kansas City. Hey, Kayla. What's up?

[Caller]

Up.

Hi, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

I have a question on. I have around $3,000 in credit card debt. I owe around $12,000 on my car that I bought during COVID I got or right before COVID So I have 2 interest rate and it's worth 22 to 25,000 right now. So I have equity in my vehicle, but then I have 16, almost $17,000 in student loans. My student loans are all federal financial. Through federal financial aid. And through that it's broken down into.

[Dave Ramsey]

Three loans into how many?

[Caller]

I'm new to your program.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. How many loans in the 17,000 IS student loans. How many different loans?

[Caller]

I'm sorry. Three.

[Dave Ramsey]

Three. Okay, I got you. All right, go ahead.

[Caller]

So working the baby steps, I'm going to One, start with a credit card. Two, what I didn't know is if I should start with my car or if I should split the financial aids up. Financial aid, actual loans up.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not financial aid. They're federal student loans that are failing and we just need to get rid of them. And you have three of them. What are the amounts on those exactly?

[Caller]

3,553. Second one, 6,490. And the third one is 6,645.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So credit cards to student loans to car. Smallest to largest.

[Caller]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

After broken down. Yeah. It doesn't matter mathematically much because you're going to do it at about the same time frame. What's your household income?

[Caller]

150K.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good. Okay. So you're gonna be done real fast, right?

[Caller]

I think so. I just didn't know if I. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just pay off the smallest first. Because when you pay off the smallest. And by the way, cut those credit cards up tonight. Time for a plastic surgery, a plomy. Chop, chop, chop, chop. Get you a debit card. They don't accidentally run up dead that for airline miles have never made anyone rich.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Hits, you know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one best selling author and host of front row seat on the Ramsey network is my co host Vanessa is in Corpus Christi, Texas. Hi Vanessa, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm good, thank you. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

I, my parents and myself and my children consolidated households a few years back and my mom made the down payment on the house and I've been making the payments, the utilities, everything else. So I've been maintaining the household. I'm getting ready to sell the house and we're going to go to separate residences. My question is, should I give her when I get back out of the house to basically pay her back for the down payment? I think I should. My brothers think I shouldn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. So how are your. Is your dad still alive?

[Caller]

My dad has just Moved into a nursing home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So where's your mom going?

[Caller]

I'm assuming an apartment or something. Yeah, I'll get her a little apartment. I have told her I'll pay $1000 a month towards whatever rent or whatever she needs, and then she'll need to live on her Social Security from there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so is this a relational breakup? Is that why you're selling the house?

[Caller]

It will be better for a relationship to sell the house, yes. A relational breakup. Also, my youngest child is about to go to college, and with my dad moving into a nursing home, we do not need a house as large as we have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. How long have you been in the house?

[Caller]

Three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so there's not any written agreement?

[Caller]

No, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well, was it a gift or was it I'm gonna contribute to this collective living arrangement?

[Caller]

I. I think it was more like, we're out of money. I'm gonna give you what I have left and buy a house, and you're going to take care of me for the rest of my days.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, that's what it sounds like. Okay, so how much did she give you at the time for the down payment on this house?

[Caller]

It was 84,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much equity will you get out of the house when you sell it?

[Caller]

I think I'll get between 60 and 70. Ish.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you've lost money on the house?

[Caller]

I think so, yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

How?

[Caller]

It's just the market. We bought at the very height when it was marketing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Corpus Christi, Texas, is not crashed.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where are you getting your numbers from?

[Caller]

My realtor.

[Dave Ramsey]

The one that sold you the house?

[Caller]

No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she says you. Or he says you overpaid dramatically for it at the time because I don't think house. I mean, what'd you pay for the house total?

[Caller]

415.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're saying this house has lost 10% of its value in three years rather than going up in value? I don't think so.

[Caller]

Yeah. Okay, I'll buy that. I might be able to get a little more out of it. The neighborhood we're in, there's still new builds being built.

[Dave Ramsey]

So why do your brothers think that your mom should not at least get her money back out of it? That. That There. There's some logic here I'm missing.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. They think, one, that she won't be responsible with it, and two, that she owes me basically rent for paying for everything for the last three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Nobody in this family's happy with mom, okay?

[Caller]

Not at the moment. We love Mom. But we're not happy with Mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got that. I got it. Yeah.

[Caller]

She's difficult, and I'll make sure she's taken care of. Whether.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't hear that. I'm not hearing you be a jerk. You're not being a jerk. I'm just. It's just interesting. Matter of fact, you're being so subtle. I'm having trouble coming to conclusions. But.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm not anti the brother's point of view right out of the gate. I'm not saying I'm supportive, but I'm also like, you've been paying for everything since she's been in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the problem is that you didn't have a clear deal.

[Ken Coleman]

That's. That's correct. It was fuzzy.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's not a clear deal. I mean, the clear deal was you stay there until she dies, and then it's your money and that.

[Caller]

Well, the clear deal. Yeah. When she. When they passed away, I would get basically the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Which was the down payment money. I mean, that's it. All it's worth. Okay.

[Caller]

Right. And now my dad is Alzheimer's, incapacitated, can't make any decisions on the house. My mom is left. I don't think she's far behind him going in the nursing home.

[Dave Ramsey]

But.

[Caller]

But we need to. We need to split residences.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And your mom thinks that she should get the money, or does she say it?

[Caller]

My mom has not said a word.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Interesting. Okay. I don't think. I don't have a clear ethical or moral guide on this. So the fact that your mom wouldn't take care of the money does not make it not hers.

[Caller]

Agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Stupid's not illegal. And so it doesn't mean you get your money taken from you just because you are incompetent. That's not how it works. So it's not how private property laws work. But I'm also not sure it's her money anymore. So I don't know what to do. What would I do if I were in your shoes? Because I don't hear you bringing harm to her or revenge or vengeance. I don't hear any of that in your language or your voice. I just hear separation has to occur. And I love her and she needs to be over there. And so I got it. And it's very, you know, you're being very kind. And so the other thing is, if you put this money in her name and she goes straight into a nursing home, that's what it's going to get used for.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you keep it in your name and she goes straight into a nursing home. You can work with the nursing home and negotiate with them and use the money to care for her as if it was for her, as if it was her money, but you kept control of it.

[Caller]

Is there a way I could put it in something that would take care of her until then?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you can put it as long, but you put it in a mutual fund and you could give her some monthly income out of the mutual fund. In other words, you're not personally taking use of the money, but you're keeping it in your name for her. Good. That's the same as giving it back to her, but maybe better given the situation.

[Caller]

I think that's a great idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And I, I, I'm listening to this and, and I'm just going to say that you've already committed, you've told Dave and I that you're going to give her a thousand bucks a month to go towards her living expenses. She has to foot the bill from Social Security. So I think in some ways this is a bit of semantics because you're already committing to give her 12,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you wouldn't have to do that if you use this 80,000 or 60,000 or whatever to create an income.

[Ken Coleman]

It's all the same thing. I don't know that I would give her the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's, I'm not, I'm not giving it to her. I'm holding it for her good.

[Caller]

Yeah. If I'm managing her money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Then I wouldn't give her $1,000 out of my income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

Of course. Exactly what I'm saying. It's a pot of money. And I just don't think the lump sum given to her to control is what I'm saying. I just wouldn't do it.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think, I think because there's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not a moral imperative to do that because there's no deal. Yeah, you're not breaking a deal.

[Caller]

No, the deal was taken care of.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you're doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're gonna do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Caller]

And it's a great idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the best way to do that is to keep the money earmarked for her. In other words, you're not gonna take this money and use it for your next down payment. It's gonna be sitting over here with an investment advisor, earmarked an account named mom, even though it's in, but the legal owner of the account is Melody. And that. Yeah, that makes sense. Or Vanessa. I'm sorry, that makes more sense. Yeah. It's good if you treat other people like you don't be treated. That's always a good rule. I think Jesus said that. Let's face it, health insurance today is more complicated than ever. The system isn't built to help the average person understand, and it leaves too many families unprotected. That's why you need my friends at Health Trust Financial. They aren't just brokers. They're trusted health insurance advisors who have been helping families like yours for over 20 years. You don't have to navigate it alone. The experts at Health Trust Financial listen to your needs, work to understand your family situation, and budget, then help you choose the health insurance plan that's right for you. That's why they're Ramsey trusted and why we've worked with them for two decades. Look, medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in America today. One hospital visit can wipe out your savings and undo all your hard work. So health insurance isn't optional. It's part of your financial defense plan. Health Trust Financial knows their stuff, and they're the only health insurance provider I recommend. So get clear about health insurance plans and get the coverage that's right for you. At Health Trust financial.com Susan is with us in Memphis. Hi, Susan. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I have a question. I am 72 years young and on baby step two, and I've jumped all in with both feet. I've got the book, the Total Money Makeover book, the workbooks, the EveryDollar app, the financial coach. And I'm just wondering, am I too late to be doing all of this?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's harder to make the exact same progress. I mean, the power of compound interest, if you were 22, would work to your favor to build a million dollars a lot better. But it is the fast. What you're looking for at any age is first getting to sustainability and then moving into wealth building. And the fastest road to sustainability is to get rid of the consumer debt, get those payments out of your life, and build an emergency fund.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. And then, of course, start building the nest egg. And so you're still working?

[Caller]

No, I'm retired.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So what's your income? What are you living on?

[Caller]

67 a year. 67,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much debt do you have? Not counting your home?

[Caller]

I'm embarrassed. Well, my home is paid for. 41,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

41,000. Good. On what?

[Caller]

I'm sorry, on what? Credit cards. Ridiculous credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's okay. So have you analyzed for self awareness yet where that debt came from? How did you get $41,000 in credit card debt? What were you spending it on?

[Caller]

My problem was I had two sons that both died within six months of each other. Yeah. And I just went, went to retail therapy. I thought that would make me feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Better and cure the cure the understandable thing. And it's a, it's a clear analysis. So we know the point is it's not going to reoccur.

[Caller]

No. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's the point of the self awareness. Right, Ken? Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

See, when you're clear on the source of it, we go, all right, how do I guard against that? You know? And you walk through something that is unimaginable for a parent. So, you know, you do have the knowledge now of this deep pain caused me to do this. So you can get out of it. Here's my question. Can you, through the skill and experience you have up to this point in your life, can you pick up some work that would be just focused on knocking this 42,000 out as quick as possible?

[Dave Ramsey]

What did you do?

[Caller]

Okay, I was administrative assistant for churches.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect. That's easy. I gotta tell you, so tool that up real fast.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I would be. And I know this isn't fun, so I know this is a bitter pill.

[Dave Ramsey]

But if you went to work for a year and it'd all be over, that'd be cool.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Caller]

Hmm. Okay, that gives me something to think about then.

[Ken Coleman]

This is. Think about this as we're only working for the sole purpose of knocking out this pain and this is gonna be extra special for you. Not just to remove the burden of the debt, but what that debt is actually tied to, which is a lot of pain.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay, that makes sense.

[Ken Coleman]

And I think you need a goal like that at 72 is my point. If you can visualize that to why I'm doing this, there's really a twofold victory. I think it's huge.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have the 67,000? That's a retirement income, A pension?

[Caller]

It is. My husband's in the service, so he and he died from Agent Orange, so we get, or I get compensation from that plus his army benefits.

[Dave Ramsey]

So there's no nest egg?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Alright, cool.

[Ken Coleman]

How much is your house worth?

[Caller]

About 350.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Yeah, I think you're fine. We get you out of debt, you're gonna be fine. And you know, it'd be neat if you started building up some kind of investments, but we don't have to Panic about that part of it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I do need you to have an emergency fund of $15,000 and be debt free, so you're $60,000 from your goal. So one year of work might be really cool.

[Caller]

Okay. All right, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're fine. Go ahead.

[Caller]

I was just gonna ask along a different note. Should I close my local bank accounts and go with Fair Winds? I've read a bunch about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we're big fans of Fair Winds. We've all got Fair Winds accounts, but we've not closed our other accounts.

[Caller]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

We've got both.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so, like, Rachel opened up hers because she wanted that cool debit card. She was like the first one. She went running to do it, so. But no, for starters, you might end up with them 100%. But I would start with a 50. 50.

[Caller]

Oh, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And make the transition gradually at this stage because you've got enough other things that you're burning calories on. I mean, that you're burning brain calories on. So, yeah, you're doing good. Susan, I gotta tell you, just the talking to you, the clarity in the language you're using and the way you're describing all of this, there's a lot of wisdom and a lot of self awareness. So I predict that you're going to do very, very, very well. And I'm sorry you went through these tragedies and that it left you with this credit card stain as a part of that story. I'm with Ken on that. So, yeah, the sooner you get rid of that, the better and the more stable you get.

[Caller]

Get.

[Dave Ramsey]

And yes, the baby steps do apply, regardless of age, regardless of income. But we're, you know, we're apt to adjust the income around here. We're not above saying, get a job. We do that sometimes, like almost every day. And Melodies in Denver. Hey, Melody, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey. I'm so excited talk to you guys. Thanks for taking the call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I have about $4,000 in credit card debt that I would really love to just knock out and get out of my Life. I have $5,000 in savings. But the problem that I keep running into and has me feeling stuck is my husband and I were both self employed and both of our jobs are very seasonal. And so winter is when we go into slow season and that always puts us kind of in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like you're doing what again with the job?

[Ken Coleman]

It's seasonal.

[Dave Ramsey]

So in the winter, what do you do?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm a Photo editor for, like, wedding photographers. And then my husband does shed hauling.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

So we're about to go into slow season, and usually we have to be, you know, very, very, very frugal. And like last year, we had to dip into our savings.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's because you're not working.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why don't you work? That's something that's not during, that's not off on the season. I mean, if you're a photographer, get Santa Claus lined up. I'm not kidding.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but do something else then. Just because you're a photo editor full time doesn't mean you can't go be.

[Dave Ramsey]

How about being a photo editor for something other than weddings? Like Santa Claus pictures? I'm serious. Or something that. I mean offset your seasonal. Instead of saying, I have to sit on my butt.

[Caller]

Right. I've taken as many clients as I can possibly get.

[Dave Ramsey]

Only in the seasonal area.

[Caller]

No, it's for Worldwide. I can take clients.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but even if it's you, you said, stay at home, mom, so you're making excuses here. I get it. But your husband can at least be working. He could be stocking shelves, he can be driving trucks. He be doing all kinds of things that you don't even have to touch the savings.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I mean, that would be the logical.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no, no, no, it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

That would be.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no. Not would be. Must be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is.

[Ken Coleman]

Must. I must work in. In our seasonal downtime.

[Caller]

Yeah, No, I agree 100%. The issue for him is that he has a bad record. So he did some stupid stuff when he was a teenager. And because of that, darling, our stupid.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stuff didn't keep him from building sheds.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, and I would tell you they're building homes, they're building. There's all kinds of crap you can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do in spite of having stupid stuff on your record. Sitting on your butt is only one of them.

[Ken Coleman]

That whole industry, by the way, is full of people who have people on their record. I worked in construction as a college kid and I was the only one with a driver's license. I had to run to seven.

[Dave Ramsey]

Getting. Getting jobs as you do, making excuses. You'd have no money problem. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 42,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with netsuite by Oracle the number one AI cloud enterprise resource planning system, Ramsey Solutions, uses NetSuite. And you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com Ramsey in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Mitchell and Sarah are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

[Caller]

Hello.

[Ken Coleman]

Hi.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome, welcome. Where do y' all live?

[Caller]

Anchorage, Alaska.

[Ken Coleman]

Fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome to Tennessee. It's beautiful here. Oh, we're glad to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off?

[Caller]

$217,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesomeness. How long did that take?

[Caller]

Three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Three years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

[Caller]

Started around 100,000, ended at 172,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Nice jump in three years. Yeah. What do you guys do for a living? I'm an occupational therapist and I work for Costco. Very cool.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you met George? George would love to meet you. So what was responsible for that $72,000 job jump?

[Caller]

A couple things. When we first started, he was on workman's comp and. And we were currently living in Idaho. And then we moved to Alaska, which also led to an increase in income. And. Get him back to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. So what made you go on the Alaska adventure? I'm curious. Well, we just really felt God kind of opening that door. And. And you didn't notice the cold air when he opened the door. We welcomed it when it came through the door.

[Ken Coleman]

Arctic blast.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

We were in a dark year. The year prior, my dad had passed away. He had gone to workman's comp. We had made some dumb money decisions and we needed to make some change. We had a lot of things happen all at once.

[Dave Ramsey]

Change in scenery is not a bad idea. All kidding aside. Yeah. And so God, pay in Alaska is excellent. It is. Yeah. And how long do you have to be there before you get to participate in the gas stuff and all that?

[Caller]

Has to be one full calendar year starting in January. See if you moved in like after January, you have to wait until the following January to start over.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so. So you've not been there long enough yet. We just got it. Oh, no, you're three years. Yeah. You just got there. Okay, cool. So how much is that a year? It changes year to year, depending. 10 or 12 grand, usually.

[Caller]

Oh, no, no, it's like $1,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I thought it was. Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think this year it was $1,000.

[Ken Coleman]

On behalf of everybody, buddy. What are we talking about?

[Caller]

A pfd? It's from the oil fields that they have in contract with the Alaska government.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're an Alaska resident, you get to participate in the profits. Well, profit sharing, the pipeline.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, that's nice to know. Okay. Sorry, I'm just out.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought it was substantial. I didn't realize. Only a thousand bucks. Okay. All that discussion for not much. All right. Anyway. So is this the house? Did you pay off that? No, no, no.

[Caller]

Student loans, loans, car, credit cards, medical debt. Medical and tax.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. And how old are y'?

[Caller]

All?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm 34 and 35. How long you been married?

[Caller]

Five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so two years there. Tragedy strikes, new scenery moved to the. So how. Where in this process you get tied into Ramsey stuff?

[Caller]

I started after I graduated from OT School in winter of 2019. And we were dating at the time, and I was telling Mitch about it, and he was not on board. He thought I was an MLM scheme.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I wish I would have made more money.

[Caller]

And then when we got married, went a little more Dave ish and didn't take things quite as seriously. And then when we had that hard, hard year, it's like, we really need to get.

[Dave Ramsey]

It brought everything into focus. Yeah. Yeah. So, Mitch, when everything. When the. When the hard times hit, what made you say, okay, we're gonna do the Ramsey stuff now? I think for me, it was just seeing something's gotta change. Something just had to change. And seeing how scared Sarah was and how hard she was working, she took on three jobs. And with work comp, they don't, you know, really make ends meet. And so it was just kind of all of that, and it took a while for God to work on my heart for that. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. That's. That's. It's not that unusual, but I always love hearing the story. Yeah. It's not just because other people are probably in exactly the same spot that are watching or listening to this. So. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Good for you guys. So what do you tell people? The key to getting out of $200,000 worth of debt in three years. That's impressive. We didn't eat nothing but rice and beans. Lots of Mexican food. Yeah.

[Caller]

Being willing to sacrifice, especially for the short term, with the end goal in mind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

Especially because, like, we had a slight pregnancy scare in the middle of all that, and we realized we couldn't afford to even have daycare. We couldn't afford to have one of us step down. So if we wanted to have a family, we need to make some sacrifices.

[Dave Ramsey]

Something had to change. Yeah, yeah. Keep doing the same thing over and over. Don't expect a different result. Right. So you gotta change something.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep, yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

To change the recipe. If you want a different cake. Good. Good for y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

Proud of you.

[Ken Coleman]

This is Herculean effort. When you look at those numbers, 217.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys been bench pressing like 400 pounds.

[Ken Coleman]

So here's what I want the audience to hear. How quickly in your journey did you begin to see momentum? Cause you bought in and you went hard at this thing. How quickly before you went, oh, we're making headwind and we can actually do this?

[Dave Ramsey]

It was, I don't know, as soon as we got to Alaska, kind of, we got there and I got back into full time work. I got a raise, Sarah got her big raise, and it was just. It was really quick.

[Ken Coleman]

At that point, you guys had already been all in, going hard at it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the first debt that got paid.

[Caller]

Off off the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, the car. Okay. And what's the one that you paid off that went, I hate you. I'm so glad you're gone?

[Caller]

All of it?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, all of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

There wasn't none of it. That was good.

[Ken Coleman]

A lot of hate. A lot of hate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's a motivator. That's okay. Yeah, good. Way to go, you guys. All right. And so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Man, for me, it was getting on the same page and getting on that budget and just being real with one another, communicating. And that's a huge thing.

[Caller]

I would say. Know your why. Know what your goal is. Why?

[Dave Ramsey]

What was yours?

[Caller]

A life of peace. A life of being able to do things that we want to do without having to have that fear of I should be doing something else with my money. Whether that is advice, like taking education for my career or going on vacation or even just buying or not having.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pregnancy and scare in the same sentence.

[Caller]

Exactly. Having that peace.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, peace. It's not a scare anymore. No, no, no. Good. Very cool, you guys. Very cool. Who was cheering you on?

[Caller]

My family for sure. My mom taught FPU when I was in grad school. All my siblings did fpu. And all of their families.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, all of my family. Siblings, parents, we have a lot of friends in Alaska and Idaho that we.

[Caller]

Were very open and honest with them about what we were doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

They all cheer us on. Well, that's good. So nobody dragging you down?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody saying you're crazy?

[Caller]

No, there's some people that said we were crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. Because those people motivate too. I'm just saying if that guy thinks I'm crazy, I'm right on track, you know, you need that guy. The anti mentor. Yeah, I like it. Very cool.

[Ken Coleman]

I remember working years ago on a campaign in Alaska. I was probably 21 and I never forget this. We were out campaigning, knocking on doors, old school style. Dave. And it's probably 7 o' clock at night, summertime, Gorgeous. And I come off of somebody's front porch and I look to turn to the next house and I see a gigantic, I mean full blown adult moose chewing on flowers in a suburban neighborhood. And it about blew my mind.

[Caller]

They're everywhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have them in our yard.

[Ken Coleman]

Not a deer, a giant moose. Like it's a pet.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's scary stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

It's pretty scary.

[Dave Ramsey]

Freaks me out. Nasty. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You're brave people in more ways than.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. Well, congratulations you guys. Once again, the whole Ramsey cruise. Proud of you. Thanks for making the trip down here to celebrate and to encourage others on the YouTube and the podcast and everybody let people know this can be done. Mitchell And Sarah Anchorage, Alaska. 217,000 paid off in three years, making 100 to 172. And you know how they did it? They decided to. They got on the same page, decided to work together and know their why. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one, win.

[Caller]

Debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's amazing the number of times we talk to someone that a change of scenery is not an option for them. And sometimes it's the most healthy possible thing.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's absolutely right.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lauren is with us in Toronto, Ontario. Hi Lauren, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, how are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I'm trying to decide whether to buy or lease a car. My husband leases his car, I currently own mine. And so I'm used to not having monthly car payments. My husband thinks I should lease because we can write it off through our business. I would Prefer to buy, but of course, it would take out of our savings that we have. So. Yeah, I'm just trying to decide which route to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well, it's. It's quite often that I get to tell the wife that she is right and her husband is wrong, because that happens a lot. And this is one of those wonderful cases. So. But let me give you the actual backup. Your husband's so wrong, it's unbelievable how wrong he is. He's not just a little bit wrong, he's, like, really wrong. Okay. Including when he did it. So let's walk through how our write off works. What is your tax rate in Canada? I know you guys get taxed a lot more than we do, and we get killed.

[Caller]

Yeah. In the 40s. 40%.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you pay 40%? I thought it was 65.

[Caller]

It's closer to where. Yeah, it's about 45.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So if you spend in your business a deductible expense, $10,000 as an expense, and it goes on your P and L as an expense, it reduces your income by $10,000. And so that is the tax write off that people talk about. All right, and so what that saves you. Let's say you didn't do that, and instead you had that $10,000 worth of income. The taxes on that $10,000 would be $4,500 on a 45% bracket. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so when you spend $10,000 that you don't need to spend in order to be. To call it sophisticated and do a write off, you've traded a dollar for 45 cents. Bad trade.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's kind of like I gave an extra $10,000 to the church and I saved the. I can write that off as a charitable deduction, I assume, in Canada. Correct. If I give $10,000 extra to the church and I save the tax, I get to give the gift, which is good. And I save $4,500 on taxes, but it costs me 6,500 net in order to give that gift. So I would never look at someone and go, oh, I give to charity because I get the tax write off. Because that would be a stupid statement because you're trading 10,000 for 4,500. That's not sophisticated in any math. And that's what your husband is saying when he says, oh, no, we should lease the cars and piss the money away so that we can take the right off and act like we're sophisticated. No, you're trading a dollar for 45 cents.

[Caller]

Right. Yeah. One of his arguments is that, well, you can lease a new car, so it's always within warranty, and then you don't have to worry about maintenance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, and then the other argument would be, new cars lose 60 to 70% of their value in the first four years. So that's stupid. Yeah, man, this guy's just. He's just losing all the way around. You're just killing him here. It's awful. So, no, wise people do not spend money on their business and trade a dollar for 45 cents and call it sophisticated.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

The only time you would do that is when you're actually getting a return on the investment, not buying a depreciating asset or a super duper depreciating asset called a new car. So now this is just dumb, dumb, dumb. And it's rationalization because he likes the car. That's right. He just wanted to buy the car. And he tried to figure out some way to posture and act like it's smart. And then by the time you get through doing the math, you look not only not smart, you look just plain dumb. So, no, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. So moral of the story, Lauren, is. Listen to Lauren. She's smart. And you didn't even know the math. You just had a bad feeling about it. I don't want to be in debt. I don't want to be in debt. Just to call it a ride. I. And don't go in debt, just call it a write off because it's dumb. The math doesn't work. They never give you 100 cents on your dollar. Ever. In a tax write off, there's no such thing. So. No, we just don't do those deals. Not ever. Marissa's in Houston. Hey, Marissa, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey.

[Caller]

My question for y' all today is my husband and I are paying off our debts. We have about $85,000 in debt, not including our mortgage. As we take the B steps on, we're slowly paying off like a peloton as well as a Mattress. They're both 0% interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

And then after that, we have to buy everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't you. You financed your mattress and the thing you hang your clothes on, the peloton. Oh, my gosh.

[Caller]

Hey, we use it. But anyway, the truck is a 20, 21F150 and they owe 26, 000 on it. That is out at a 2.99 interest rate. But actually, I know we can pay those off slowly and snowball them the payments. But my next question is, we actually have a heloc worth about $47,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

We make, let's see, $15,000 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Marissa, please don't justify staying in debt by having low interest rates.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you've been giving me your interest rates as you went along, like there were some kind of bragging rights on a peloton. Okay, so now let's just say this consumer debt, including the truck and the heloc, is stupid and we need to clear it all up, because the faster we clean all that up, the faster we're going to be in a position to really build serious wealth.

[Caller]

Well, and the main question we have is the house we're in now we've lived in since 2017. It's a great house, but we have three boys, and we are quickly outgrowing it. So we know that we're not going to be in this home for the long term and plan on moving actually in the next two to three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you need to get out of debt for. You do.

[Caller]

Correct, of course.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

But where we're stuck is we're trying to figure out if once we pay off the truck and pay off the other two consumer debts, then are we going to then pay towards the HELOC and get that completely paid off?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

Or should we start saving money to have a larger down payment on our next home?

[Dave Ramsey]

When you sell your. When you sell your home with the HELOC not on it, they're going to give you a check that's $40,000 larger because it doesn't have a HELOC on it.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you are saving the money. It's just buried in your equity.

[Caller]

Right. Well, we just knew since we're going to be moving in the next two to three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not hearing me. You're going to get the money.

[Caller]

Yes, I understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So don't kick the can down the road and act like everything's now. Just get rid of the stinking debt. And then when you sell the house, they're gonna write you a check and you got the same down payment you would have had, as if you didn't pay off the HELOC and had the money in savings.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exact same down payment.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's the exact same $40,000. It still works that way both ways. So. But you do whatever you want. But that's what we would tell you to do, obviously. So, Ken, our rule of thumb on second mortgages is if they're less than half your annual income. And at 15,000amonth, this is definitely less than half their annual income. And 40,000 being the amount. Then we put that in baby step two. If it's a huge HELOC or whatever second mortgage we want to call it, then we put it over there in baby step six and pay it off with the mortgages, in which case we would have done what she said to do, which is wait until the house sells or refinance or whatever you're going to do and get rid of of it. By the way, these rates are coming down. We're sitting at five and a half right now on 15 year fix. And so if you're sitting on a 6% first mortgage and you've got a big second mortgage, it'd probably be a good time to refi and roll them together and get you a five and a half on the whole puppy. Now, if you're sitting on 2% first mortgage, probably not going to want to roll that in and do a refi. Okay? But if you're sitting on a 2% mortgage, it's 20,000 and you have a $200,000 second mortgage at 10%. Great time to refi and get rid of that. So start running your numbers at this five and a half number on your first and second. And does it make net, net sense to get a new first mortgage at a lower interest rate, Cumulative interest rate. Right. A weighted average interest rate over the thing. And it probably may for some of you that are sitting on that. So be watching, be awake, be aware.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair winds Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, Ken Coleman. Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Steve is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi Steve, how are you?

[Caller]

Real good, thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help, sir?

[Caller]

Okay. My wife and I are on baby step seven and we have three children. Our 16 year old is very eager to work, make money, but he looks at more of buying things online and then reselling as his job. And we keep pushing for him to get a job. How else do we go about this to help him see the importance of actually going to a job or are we looking at it wrong?

[Ken Coleman]

Has he, has he been able to actually do this with his own money? Buy something and then flip it so he.

[Caller]

Yes, over the years he's mowed, we pay well at home. So I mean he's stocked up a lot of money. But now he sees it as an online avenue. Is better for him to make money with his time?

[Dave Ramsey]

Is he actually proving out his theory? Does he make money with his time?

[Caller]

Unfortunately, I don't feel he does. And I might be just too overcasting on it, my wife and I, but we just don't see as. No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. We Talked to a 19 year old the other day that had a million dollars.

[Caller]

No, no, we're talking maybe $10 he might make off of a pair of shoes. If he buys and resells them, maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if he does. But does he do that 15 or one time a year?

[Caller]

Once. It's like, it's like he goes in spurts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Every time I would meet both of you in this and say, number one, my job as your dad is to make sure that you have extreme work ethic because people that do not work do not succeed.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's my job as your dad and I'm going to do my job. Even if it causes you great discomfort?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the kind of discussion I've had with mine when they were that age. Okay. And then so the bad news is that the good news is I'm going to help you. So now if your job is being an entrepreneur and you're using your online skills that are native to you as a 16 year old that the old man doesn't understand, that's fine. But you are running a business. And now let's talk about. I'm going to coach you in how to run a business. So a business has a profit and loss station statement. And if you're Running a business and you make a dollar an hour, your business is failing.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you could have been working at J O B for somebody else and making $20 an hour.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, but if your business is making a hundred dollars an hour and you're working 40 hours, I'm going to get excited about your entrepreneurial spirit and your business acumen that we're building because we're going to run a P and L and we're going to see do you actually make a profit on this crap or do you have an online hobby and you're substituting that for work?

[Caller]

Yes, I think it's where we're going.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Well, I don't care. In other words, I'm gonna prove to him that this is not his job.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

By the fact that he's not making any freaking money when I make him do a proper profit loss statement on this and start tracking his sales. Okay, so how many items did you sell this month? And what did you pay for those items? And what. What did the collective group sell for? And the difference is called your profit. You have cost of goods sold in a business, my son. That's how entrepreneurism works.

[Caller]

Is it correct to tell him when you do profit, put the profits off to the side or put your actual money that you spent, keep that because you got to pay yourself back and then keep his profits separate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You have to at least take your cost of goods sold and put it back in, otherwise you run out of inventory. Money. Money. Yes. And so let's say he sells $4,000 worth of items and his cost in those items was $1,000. So he made $3,000 this month. I would call that very successful. For a teenager, that is. Yes. Okay. If he did that, we would take the thousand that he paid for those items out of the $4,000 and put it into next month's inventory or a little more, 1500, because maybe we can grow this thing, but we're not gonna just take the 4000 and bank it or blow it and then have no inventory for next month. What I'm saying is, if part of me teaching you work ethic is to also teach you some business principles and encourage your entrepreneurial spirit, I'm willing to do that. I am not willing. And you are not, as a person that lives under my roof, going to kid yourself and burn a bunch of activity, make no money and call that a job.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's an illusion. And I meet adults that have not learned that. But you've got the opportunity to have this young man under your wing and teach him some entrepreneurial skills.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, Steve, I want to make sure Dave just gave you great advice. I want to give you some tactical things to do here. You've got to lean in with your kid and you've got to push him to do what he's doing now better and see if he can make it bigger before you poo poo this. And I'm not getting on you, but your posture as you started the call. And by the way, I've been there, so I'm not getting on you. But make sure you hear what Dave said before you push him to something else. Push him to do this really well, which means you got to know the numbers better and you barely know because I think the whole concept to you is probably a bit foreign and you're a little irritated by it. And I think you're going to get him. You're going to have more effect doing what Dave told you to do if you lean in first.

[Dave Ramsey]

If I can teach my kids, if I can teach my kids to be entrepreneurial successfully, they're going to do better than if I teach them to get a job.

[Ken Coleman]

And I was just going to suggest something as you push him. Why don't you invest a little bit? Go, hey, and I'm making this up. Do your homework, get in it with the kid. Do some of your own homework on kids that are doing this well. But let's say, let's use the shoe example. And I'm not telling you to do this. This is an example. I might go, hey, I'm going to give you X amount of dollars and I'm going to invest in, in you because I want to see if you're serious about this. So I'm your investor. I'm going to buy five pairs of shoes for you and you're going to sell those. And based on what I've learned, what you're telling me, you should make this on the shoes and walking through that like Dave was telling you, because now you're teaching him about investors, you're teaching them about a lot of things. And let's put some positive pressure on this instead of negative. That's the only thing I wanted to share because I think you, how you.

[Caller]

Share that, I like that.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, Dave's advice is genius. But I'm trying to give you something tactical where your kid goes, oh, dad's not being dad. And just, you know, like he'll learn by you being so positive that we actually reveal if he is just scamming you and he's just trying to come up with an excuse not to go pick up a shovel.

[Dave Ramsey]

And under all of this is he's feeling your strength to force him into character based decisions because that's how he becomes a man.

[Caller]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he's not. And so what you don't want to do is say, oh, all things that are online and entrepreneurial are bad because it always makes me laugh. I remember my grandmother, my grandpa worked for alcohol aluminum for 38 years. He had a job because he went broke in the Great Depression and never wanted to be unstable again. And my grandmother tied into that same emotion. So getting a job was a big deal for them. They would get a job, people. And so I'm self employed. And the day I got the call from the publisher that I had sold my one millionth book, the first book, Financial Peace, my grandmother called me and she said, you know, I was praying for you this morning. I'm worried about you. I really think you need to think about getting a job, you know, and you don't want to be that. You know, that's a cute story, but you don't even want to be that. You just. So I want to encourage as entrepreneurism but on only if it's not an illusion. I don't want to encourage delusional thought. So let's turn this into money, baby. And you prove yourself, you prove your idea. And if not, you'd be working at Chick Fil a saying, it's my pleasure.

[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Well, don't just set goals for 2026, learn how to reach them. The 2026 Ramsey Gold Planner is here. It's packed with monthly content from Jade, Rachel and Deloney to help you stay on track with your money and faith and relationships and follow through on your goals. We sell these out every year, so seriously, don't wait. This thing is a masterclass in creative design. It's our creatives just went bananas. It's awesome. Awesome. They're $49, 97 cents. There's just a few of them left for 26, so go to ramseysolutions.com store or click the link in the show notes. Jess is in Rochester. Hi, Jess. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my husband and I are in baby step two, and we are struggling with managing the cash flow of our budget. Maybe it's because a portion of his pay is irregular, but usually at some point in the beginning of the month, we have to p from our baby step one to cover the bills so that they're not late. And then the next paycheck we can replenish our savings. But I was just wondering how we fix this so that we don't need to dig into our Baby Step 1 savings every month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Probably a shortage of income. What is he making?

[Caller]

Well, I guess gross. Our W2 for the month income is 7,800 and then gross spiff income for him that your regular income is about 2,200. But it varies. We don't really know.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can't make it on $10,000 a month?

[Caller]

Well, so our minimum to run the household is 8,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why pray tell?

[Caller]

So our mortgage is 2,400, and I guess the next biggest thing would be our son's school is 1,700, and then just utilities, food, transportation, all that adds up to 8,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it doesn't. Unless you have a $1,200 car payment.

[Caller]

Our car payments combined. I have credit card debt. Car payments.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much credit card debt do you have?

[Caller]

8,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much do you owe on these cars?

[Caller]

15,000 on the RAV4, 20,000 on a GMC terrain, and then 73,000 on student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. How many children do you have? One. Are you working outside the home?

[Caller]

Yes, I'm an accountant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so your total household income is $10,000 month.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you can't make it on $10,000 a month even with what you've described to me?

[Caller]

Well, we can. I guess. It's the timing of the bills that are a struggle. So I keep digging into the savings and then replenishing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think you're doing a monthly budget, are you?

[Caller]

I have my Excel spreadsheet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I thought. You need to get on the EveryDollar app and lay out a proper budget budget where every dollar has an assignment before the month begins and you pre plan the cash flow so that it doesn't get backwards on you and you Say, okay, what's going to wait on his bonus check at the end of the month. And then of course, ultimately you build margin into this and you flip it to where his bonus for this month is covering stuff for next month instead of last month. But that's going to be done by margin. That's going to be done by getting margin and. And under control. I also have. I mean, y' all have done some ridiculous purchases. I can tell that you spend a lot. So are you guys staying out of restaurants? No. You're not. Okay, all right. I didn't think so.

[Caller]

We're trying to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're not, though. You're not.

[Ken Coleman]

What are the combined car payments?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's 15,000 and.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but I'm just looking at what's the monthly bills right there on the two car payments every month?

[Caller]

1,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's insanity. Yeah, but I mean, I think you could get them all paid off, but you're going to have to get the other side of this and create some margin. And you don't have margin in this budget, and it's kind of ridiculous that you don't on 120,000. So that's where you've got to get to. So you've got to increase your income and decrease your outgo. And the spread is how you clean up the debt mess instead of spending every stinking dime you make every stinking month and spinning your wheels because you start to lose hope because you feel like a rat in a wheel.

[Caller]

Yes, 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's the problem. And it's scary. I understand. So, you know.

[Caller]

Yeah, I feel like I'm just always behind. I'm just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me change the word. It's not I, it's we. The two of you sit down tonight and lay out an every dollar budget for the upcoming month. The two of you sit down tonight and say, okay, why can't we live on ten freaking thousand dollars and look at it together and start asking yourself the question, what has to be cut? Number one, you need to not go on vacation. Number two, you need to stay out of restaurants unless you're working there as your extra job to get your income up. Okay, that's it. And then we burn our lifestyle to the ground. If that doesn't work, we start selling cars and get rid of these debts because I've got to create $1,000 to $2,000 worth of margin in this to start reducing these debts rather than just spinning our wheels. And you're not going to do that. A, without a plan and B, without cutting spending and probably c, increasing your income somewhere. You probably could pick up some side gigs on accounting that you could do spare time, unquote. Evenings after the baby's asleep, whatever. It's tax time here right now. You got a bunch of filings and stuff going on. Right? Probably too late on that one, actually. But whatever you can do around Christmas, whatever he can do to pick up. And just. If you picked up a couple grand a month and use that. Let's get rid of the credit card debt and then let's get rid of the car debt, and now we start to have some margin, and then we can knock off that student loan debt and work that debt snowball smallest to largest in that order. But you can't even talk about doing that right now because you're just borrowing from Peter to pay Paul each month. I understand, but I think the first thing is you're going to cut your lifestyle and get on a detailed plan. Both of those things will make you feel like you got a raise. And that's going to flip this over. So you're about 10 to 15% of intensity that you have to turn up. You're not. This is not an intellectual exercise. This is an emotional exercise. It's. I'm so pissed off. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And that's what gets you out. That's what gets you out. Orlando is in El Paso. Hi, Orlando. How you are? Are you.

[Caller]

Hey, Dave.

I'm doing good.

I'm breathing.

My family's breathing.

I'm blessed.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a good thing. It's a good start. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I've got a bit of a question. We just recently paid off my house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

Property. Yes, sir. And I'm thinking of doing a equity loan or HELOC on the property to build a. To build another house and sell it for profit. And like, I don't know, I mean, it's kind of scary.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it should be.

[Caller]

Wondering if that's a good idea or not.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not a good idea. It should scare you to the point you don't do it. You just work to get your house paid off. Now you're gonna roll the dice on your personal home and hope you hit red. Hope you hit craps. No, I'm not doing that. Not a chance. I love the idea of flipping houses with cash, but not cash from your home. No, no, no. Please, please, please. I mean, you felt a different kind of peace the day you paid it off, and now you're Wanting to step back into the land of anxiety and right back into the bear train. And you said, I'm kind of scared. That's what. And so you recognize your body physically feels different when you pay off your house. And now you're going to put that tension back between your shoulder blades. No, please don't do that. Please, please, please. Get off that Tic Tac site that get rich quick real estate. Whatever you're reading, get away from that. It's going to cause you pain, my man. And we love you. We don't want that to happen to you. I'd love for you to do some house flips in the future with the money that you pile up since you don't have a house payment anymore. And do it with cash but not with borrowed money on your personal residence once you finally got it paid off. That makes my. That makes my hurt. My head hurt. Oh, my gosh.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you. You like. We would find what you [e-mail] insurance in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Brent and Polly are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. Hi, Ken.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome. Where do you guys live?

[Caller]

I've been to Oregon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fun. Well, welcome to Nashville.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

A little bit of a haul to get over here and do your debt free scream. We're glad you're here.

[Caller]

Just a little bit.

It's beautiful.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much? Yeah. Thank you. We're honored to have you. How much debt did you guys pay off?

[Caller]

286,452. Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, guys. Excellent. How long did this take?

[Caller]

Six years, six months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. I love it. And your range of income during that six years to six months?

[Caller]

108,000 up to 170,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

170.

[Caller]

170.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. Good. And what do y' all do for a living?

[Caller]

I am a NDT radiographer, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm.

[Caller]

And I work in accounts receivable for a digital marketing tech company.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. Good for you guys. Well done. And the kind of debt, the 286.

[Caller]

What kind of debt was 56,452 was two cars. Cars, a boat and our two phones.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

And then 230000 was our house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Looking at weird people. I love it. Congratulations.

[Caller]

It's finally done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done. How old are you two?

[Caller]

I'm 41.

Wow.

And I'm gonna be 40 in May.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have a paid for house?

[Caller]

We do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's so cool. What's the house worth?

[Caller]

Zillow tells us 550. But I know what we could get it for if we put it on the market. So probably right around 6.

You know.

[Dave Ramsey]

That sounds right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds about right. We know Zillow's not accurate.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And man that's so cool. How much in your retirement nest eggs?

[Caller]

We're roughly probably right around 860,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. So you're 40 year old baby steps millionaires with a paid for house.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Oh excuse me. Excuse me. That's with the house with.

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh. So you're heading to baby. Almost. But not quite by next year.

[Caller]

Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got it. Okay. Yeah. Well I mean stock market shoots up. There will be. Yeah. Just like that. So there you go. There you go. Way to go. Guys. How does it feel to be almost millionaires and 40 years old with a paid for house?

[Caller]

Wild.

It's just. It's surreal. Dave. Like it's so hard to explain. Like you always looked at it and I was so like I. Like I could think how I wanted it to feel. And like now that we're here it's like John Deloney always says. It's like you have bricks in your backpack and you take them all out. It's finally we've set all those bricks out of our backpack and down. It's just. We're free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Huge sigh.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

So what. What was the catalytic moment? Or was it a series of things that makes you guys go hey, we're doing this. And not only are we getting rid of the debt. We're going all the way and paying the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller]

Exactly. So for us it was. We kind of thought about the answer to that question because we listen every day and there was no aha moment. Tragic life event. Nothing like that happened. It was actually kind of more of a conversation that we just randomly had. I work from home so I'm listening to the podcast all day. Which is great. But kind of, you know he comes home one day and we start chatting about it and we both kind of. We're very competitive people. You should see us play Monopoly. And we looked at each other and we're like how quick do you think we could actually do this? Or is it even A thing do you think we could actually do? And I am the nerd of the family. And so I immediately got into my spreadsheets and started, you know, color coding, putting our pay dates, putting how much, you know, margin we have, and it was off to the races, truly at that point. And we were like, let's see if we can do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

So no big argument, really.

[Caller]

No, we don't argue.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was just kind of, she's always right there.

[Ken Coleman]

Only at Monopoly, we don't argue.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's always right.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, he was ready, like we were ready to roll.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long had you been married at that point? Right.

[Caller]

At six and a half years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. So now you're 13 years.

[Caller]

Thirteen years next month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Wow. Okay. Very cool. Good for you all. Wow, that's cool.

[Caller]

It's very exciting.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a good way to get at it though. So it was more common of a begins almost with an intellectual curiosity. Spurred by the podcast.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you said, I wonder if that works for us.

[Caller]

100%.

[Sponsor Voice]

Well.

[Caller]

And Dave. And also like, I look at like we made a fairly decent income starting off and I looked at our paycheck every two weeks and at the end of the month it's like, man, we're making this much money. And we were fleece people. We enjoyed the new vehicles.

Totally work.

And it's like, I mean, why are we doing what we're doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's.

[Caller]

We had, like I said, a great income and it's like it's just getting taken away and taken away to nothing. To what? Just so you can show people you have a nice car?

We got caught up in that. How much is the payment game that so many people, including, you know, people that we know very closely, it's, oh, well, what's the payment? You can afford it. What's the payment? And we got caught up in that and it was something that we were like, why? Why are we doing this? Like, you know, just for a piece of metal that's sitting in the driveway.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we called it our yard. Arnold. Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller]

Expensive ones. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. That's fun. Well, that is cool that you're really. What happened is your, your what you value changed.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

To a longer term vision that was less than the shallowness of just having a nice car.

[Caller]

Yep, very much so. We wanted that. We wanted to wake up and just breathe and not work. At one point I had like the other couple that was up here, I had three jobs. He was working non stop overtime. It just, we were, we're Just like, why? Why are we doing this with our precious little life we have?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly. It goes fast and end up working your whole life for somebody else if you're not careful.

[Caller]

It felt like we were working our whole life for the last six years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we did. Off to work I go. Yeah, Good for you guys. Who was cheering you on?

[Caller]

Definitely our parents. We have amazing sets of parents. His parents have a paid off home and have been a huge, huge inspiration for us. My parents have cheered us on. Amazing, amazing. Friends.

Friends.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. How did you find the podcast originally?

[Caller]

Boredom. To be honest, if you type in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Boredom, we come up.

[Ken Coleman]

No, that's what everybody wants to hear.

[Caller]

I was born in a blue. I honestly just truly was looking for something to listen to that was inspiring and came across it and binged it for. Like I said, I got sent home to work from home during Corona years and just started binging it. And it was. To this day, it's the first thing I listen to right when I have my coffee till the show's over, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

God bless you for putting up with us. I know, Dave, it's one thing the rest of us. I don't know how you do it.

[Caller]

It's hard sometimes, but yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, not surprised. That's why I apologized. What's the key? What would you tell people the key to this whole thing is get your butt to work. Oh, I like that.

[Caller]

My alarm would go off at 1am every morning and I'd start work anywhere between 1:45, 2 and then I didn't get off till 3:30, 4 o'.

[Dave Ramsey]

Clock. Good.

[Caller]

I would do that four days a week and then, then on Fridays I'd go in and work six hours. And then we had our side hustle that we would. We'd get. We would get furniture and we would turn around and paint furniture and sell them.

Anything on the side of the road was mine.

If you look at the. Some of our photos that we have, that's our garage.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

At one time, we had 42 dressers in our garage.

Furniture store in the kitchen, took it over, no room for anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

This is kind of like our end results.

[Ken Coleman]

So this is going to inspire some people real fast. Give us one example of how much you paid for a piece of furniture and how much you flipped it for.

[Caller]

So she got one off the side of the road actually, for free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller]

And we put it on a trailer, took it home, and I think she ended up selling it for $750.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on.

[Caller]

It's a beautiful Drexel vintage. I mean, you know, wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cruising around the rich end of town, see who puts something on the curb. I see it.

[Caller]

I'm like, babe, get in the car.

It was 6:30 in the morning. One morning she dropped, jumps out off the couch with coffee and she's like, we gotta go, we gotta go. There's a dresser on the street. We went and grabbed it somewhere in Bend.

[Ken Coleman]

They're going, oh, I put that out there for the furniture. Come by, pick it up, repair it. You stole it. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

[Caller]

No, no. Only. Only legal for you.

[Ken Coleman]

Good job. Thanks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent work, you guys. Excellent work. I'm proud of you guys.

[Caller]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. Good for you. Work, work, work, work, work, work. And get on that every dollar budget. And here we go.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. All right. It's Brent and Polly. Bend, Oregon. $286,000 paid off in six and a half years, making 108 to 170. Their secret was coming together, being unified. Work, work, work, work, work. Live on less than we make and steal dressers from people's front yard. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Caller]

Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're doing death free.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, Ken, I knew we'd had a lot of listenership growth, but I had no idea that it was because when you type in boredom, we come up.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we'll take them however we can get them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture today, James 1:12. Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. Josh Billings said, be like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there. That's pretty good.

[Ken Coleman]

Half our audience has no idea what a postage stamp is.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's true. Top questions people have about online wills. How do I know if I need a trust or a will? Well, if you've got a large estate, something north of a million dollars, you may need an actual attorney to do the will for you. And you might need a trust at that point, but it's certainly got to be north of a million. Probably north of 5 million before you even worry about that kind of thing. When do I need to start my online will? Or what do I need? You need to know, like you do for any will. Who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take care of your children that are minors? And who do you want to make decisions for you? If your health goes and you're incapacitated, the healthcare power of attorney. Is an online will legally valid? Of course. But you need to know that all wills are state law, not federal law. So when you leave one state and go to another to live, your old will is invalid. You need a will done according to your state's laws and the proper signatures or notaries or whatever is needed and the components of the will itself are different from state to state. And so it's very important to get one that's state specific. So go to ramseysolutions.com willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. It's a free wills quiz and we'll start to learn about this stuff and get that taken care of. It's what grown ups do. Matthew's in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi Matthew, how are you?

[Caller]

Are you other Dave? Hey Ken. How are you today, gentlemen?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Awesome. Just have a quick question for you. I'm quite entrepreneurial in spirit and one year ago I unfortunately had to close a business and was advised to declare chapter seven personally just to protect myself from some of the dotted lines I have my name on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you?

[Caller]

I did, yeah. In early December 2024. Yeah. It was definitely a fantastic learning experience for me. I have since pivoted and been saving as much money as I can and paying down some of the accounts that were associated with that business. Closer just out of a moral. And I am due a bonus quite soon at my current position and I already have a about $12,000 in savings and I just kind of wanted to see if you recommend debt snowballing. Some of the past due stuff associated with the business or how do you associate non personal debt. But if you're paying stuff off where there's a variance of different things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it was personal debt when it was in the business because they didn't loan your business money. You had personal signatures on all of it. That's why you filed chapter six seven.

[Caller]

That's fair. That is correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So now you don't have any debt Legally. Legally speaking, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're saying that you want to go back and pay back the bankrupted debt?

[Caller]

Yeah, as much as I possibly can. Just as a small business operator, I know I owed some small businesses, you know, AP accounts and stuff like that. So. So just a. Just a. I've never taken money from anyone.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you know just how much, how much is involved? If we total all those accounts, about 187. Okay.

[Caller]

Is all of it associated with the business?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're making what kind of money now?

[Caller]

130.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good for you. All right. Are you married? I'm.

[Caller]

No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Well, if you. Here's the thing. You do not legally owe the money. And I would only tell you to go and pay it back if you feel like God's telling you to do that. In other words, this is a moral spiritual tug on your heart. I do not think that is required to be ethical. Okay. I did do what you're doing on my bankruptcy 10 years later. Later.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it was not because I felt like I morally owed the money. And it was not because I felt like I ethically owed the money, because I'm pretty sure I didn't. The laws of the United States allowed me to file bankruptcy on the debts. I had repaid already, 90% of it before we went bankrupt anyway. And I was forced out by craziness on the other side of the discussion. But I did wake up very, very clearly, knowing one of the few times in my life I'm 100% sure God told me to do something. And in my case, and it might be because I'm on the microphone doing this, but in my case, God told me to go back and pay everybody. Not just the small ones, but everybody. And that was a trip, I got to tell you. It took about six months to convince people to take money that they had not thought about in decades, you know, particularly bankers, because it wasn't their money. And it created. It created, like, work for them to put this on the books. And they didn't want to do with their job and stuff. So it was weird. But I did do it. And I don't talk about it much. I don't brag about it because it's not relevant. Because I'm not going to impugn that on everyone else. I felt like that was a directive to Dave Ramsey. I'm not sure if that's a directive to Matthew. But I would tell you if you felt that strongly from a spiritual perspective, you should go do it. And I also would tell you there's no hurry. You don't have any money, you make 130,000. You don't have any money, you make 130,000. You're talking about 187,000. It's going to take a while. By the time I got there, I had the money in one account to write a check and do also took close to a decade to talk my wife into it. But she wasn't gonna ever pay them back. Cause she knew what they did to Us. She knew how they treated us, and she's still mad 35 years later. But don't make a hillbilly woman mad. I'm just saying that's the moral of the story. But anyway. Yeah, but that's, you know, again, I hesitate to tell that because I don't always want. I don't want other people to impugn it as my actions are a principle of ethics or a principle spiritually.

[Ken Coleman]

So if he decides, he was asking, does he do the debt snowball?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I would just take. I would do it one debt at a time, in full. Yeah, because the debt snowball is you pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. You're not paying any payments on these. And so I just list them smallest to largest. When I had enough to knock out the little one, I'd call them up and go, hey, feel like God told me to pay you, and I'm going to run the check over for that $13,400 that I owe you, and here I'm going to drop it by. And I did do some of that. And, and the reactions were very interesting. I can imagine they were very weird in some cases. Some people were like, nah, don't worry about it. I'm like, yeah, well, I'm too late. I'm already worried about it. And then others are like, it's $13,422.13. Are you going to include the interest? You know, it's like people. All kinds of different reactions instead of like, I can't believe you're doing this 10 years later. But yeah, anyway, so list them smallest to largest and knock out one at a time. Incomplete. And in other cases, if someone was doing. And they had a bunch of debt that they were behind on, we'd be settling these one at a time. But these are settled, so we don't need to go ask for a discount on these. If you feel like you're supposed to pay it, I just go pay it and just do them one at a time. It's going to take you a little while, though.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what I loved about what he said is a lot of them were small businesses, and I love the sentiment there. And I think God will honor that. I do think that he doesn't have to, and I agree. But I think that spirit is really, really good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's a. Yeah, it's hard. It's. In things like that, it's hard to know exactly how to feel. But, but, but you can never go wrong leaning towards integrity. Right. Or extreme integrity. Or weird fanatical integrity. You know no one's ever mad when you do that, right? Well, most. I don't know one, but very few are. Very few are. So, yeah, it's. Yeah, it's a process. So, yeah. Very interesting. Very interesting. And Matthew, you're a good man to at least be thinking about that. I would tell you, make sure you're taking care of your own household first. Make sure you got your emergency fund in place. You're avoiding personal new debt of any kind. And then as you have excess money, apply it to this program. Not scrimping and saving. It's not debt snowball like Gazelle Intensity. It's just as I've got some excess money money, maybe I've even got some investing going on. And I'm going to put 50% towards investing and 50% towards this program of my excess money.

[Ken Coleman]

Also love that he went back to work for somebody else, swallowed his pride. He's being productive. He's not licking his wounds and trying another entrepreneurial venture.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love that great character that puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.