You Can’t Afford To Be Careless With Money

Summary

The Ramsey Show
Episode: “You Can’t Afford To Be Careless With Money”
Date: October 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney answer callers' questions about pressing financial worries, with a strong emphasis on personal responsibility, establishing healthy boundaries, and the practical application of money principles—regardless of past mistakes. The main theme is that wealth is built through intentional action and care with money; carelessness leads to regret, but it’s never too late to regain control. Through candid, sometimes tough love, Dave and John tackle everything from the importance of good banking relationships to the necessity of living below your means, and the value of facing financial (and life) realities head-on.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Should I Keep Cash at Home?

[00:46–08:15]

• Caller’s Concern: Jay from Massachusetts shares about a temporary online banking blackout and wonders if he should keep more cash at home.
• Dave’s Take: Focus isn’t on hoarding cash, but on banking with institutions that provide access and service. “Bank of America sucks, as you have discovered, my friend.” (01:33)
• Safety & Practicality: Dave suggests keeping a small, easily replaceable amount of cash at home—enough for local emergencies, not for apocalypse prepping.
  • “Uncle Ben’s, right. That’s a redneck emergency fund.” (03:02)
  • “If you take it too far, it is an illusion… that it’s really going to fix everything.” (05:09)
• John DeLoney’s “Placebo Effect”: He validates the psychological comfort of having cash. “Is it going to protect me from the meteorite? No. But it’ll make me sleep a little bit better—and that’s worth something.” (03:42)
• Bigger Lesson: Move to a small bank or credit union, like Fairwinds, and value personal banking relationships.

2. Navigating Family, Marriage, and Money Decisions

[11:18–19:44]

• Caller Mason: Asks about living in his parents’ guest house as newlyweds on the cheap, and paying off a car.
• Advice on Living Near Family:
  • John: “It depends on the question beneath the question… if your parents will rent you a place and let you be married… can create boundaries, it can be great. If not—don’t.” (13:12)
  • Set clear boundaries & expectations with parents before moving in.
  • If it doesn’t work, “just jet.” (14:52)
• Car Loan Context: Mason considers selling his truck and buying a paid-off one before marriage.
  • Dave’s Math: Vehicle value under half annual income, focus on being debt-free in two years max.
  • Recommendation: Wait until three months after marriage to decide—get in the rhythm first.

3. Should I Sell the Van for a Quick Debt-Fix?

[21:26–27:04]

• Caller Maddie: Torn between selling their family van to quickly become debt-free, or snowballing debts for the long-term lesson and discipline.
• Dave: Praises her self-awareness—quick fixes don’t build habits. Tells her to keep the van since the debt ratio is healthy and their income is high.
  • “If you sell the van, you’re just going to buy another one in a year... it’s a bad use of all your brain calories.” (23:37)
• John: Emphasizes muscle-building for marriage and process: “Practice this—it’s a new muscle… you’re going to find your marriage gets better on the back end of grinding this thing out together.” (26:19)

4. Approaching Marriage as a Second-Chance Couple—Combining Budgets

[27:14–33:06]

• Caller Nicole: Remarried, first month of budgeting together, uneven incomes. Seeks tips for a smooth start.
• Dave: “Teaching an old dog new tricks is tough, right? But it’s going to be worth it.” (28:41)
  • Combining finances is about values, priorities, fears, and dreams—not just numbers.
  • “There’s going to be some polishing going on… you’re going to have to hold your breath a couple times, girl.” (29:01)
• John: “Manly men put their childish egos aside… one plus one equals one when you get married.” (29:37)

5. Cohabitation and Homeownership Nightmare

[33:06–39:12]

• Question of the Day: Molly from Minnesota bought a house with her “partner” (not married), wants her down payment back, is considering a HELOC.
• Dave’s Stark Advice: “NEVER buy a house with someone you’re not married to under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, period.” (34:37)
  —Details a litany of disasters from no legal protections to family inheritance messes.
• John: “I don’t think they should get married. I think there are too many issues here.” (37:32)

6. Over-Leveraged Car Loans and Early-Life Financial Stress

[39:12–42:36]

• Caller Carmen (age 24, husband 22, 1-year-old son): Car debt of $44,000 on modest incomes, struggling despite knowing the right things.
• Dave: “The car owns y’all, you don’t own it. That car is in the land of crazy.” (41:04)
  • Sell it, buy a $4,000 car with cash, use budgeting app EveryDollar, follow the Baby Steps.

7. The Illusion of “Freedom” After Paying Off the House

[43:34–51:31]

• Caller Brittany: Paid off house but doesn’t feel “free”—still saving for a big renovation.
• Dave: “Contentment is kind of a bully in the schoolyard… you step across the line, it backs up.” (45:00)
  • Even wealthy people have limits—contentment is a financial superpower.
  • “It’s annoying versus a freakin’ catastrophe.” (47:43)
• John: “Your old life is over—exhale, you’re choosing your new reality.” (46:22)

8. Parental Loans & Financial Entanglements

[56:14–63:54]

• Caller Jake (24, building house, parents gifted/lent money): Should they use savings for house or fun?
• Dave: “Do I borrow money from my parents when I’m newly married to travel? Does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me?” (58:20)
  • Danger: Loans between parents and adult kids damage relationships. “Even a nice master is a master.” (63:45)
  • Advice: Use all savings for the house, get a commercial mortgage for the rest, don’t owe parents.

9. Insurance Disasters & Tragedy as Financial Reset

[86:20–105:03]

• Caller Kim (South Dakota): Decades of discipline destroyed by a natural disaster, insurance fail, medical bills; now thousands in debt for survival essentials.
• Dave and John: Challenge her (and listeners) to “truncate the damage”—make new financial decisions in light of new (harsh) reality, not out of lingering hope for the old.
  • “The life you had is over—start from what’s true now… Everything is back on the table.” (98:59–101:07)
  • “Limit the financial impact of tragedy by restarting your life with a new definition quickly.” (100:59)
• Key lesson: When catastrophe hits, grieve, accept new limits, and act based on current reality—not wishes.

10. Lightning Round: Debt Busting, Big Wins, and Psyche

Numerous rapid-fire calls cover:

• Aggressive debt payoff in later years: Use retirement funds after 62 (no penalty) to clear debts if it leaves enough left. (67:37)
• How to handle a debt settlement program that’s not delivering: Challenge it, get aggressive, live on less, and push harder. (70:09)
• Motivational Debt-Free Scream—Ryan & Amber, 28 and 27, paid off $180K house in 32 months:
  • “Forget what other people think about you. You’re working hard for it. It’s your own money.” (111:20)
  • “There’s not a thing the two of us can’t lock arms and tackle together.” (109:53)
  • Lunches with Dad: “Every week… I’m so proud of you… That was huge just to have that reinforcement.” (114:21)

11. Special Guest Tim Tebow on Self-Worth

[75:43–85:19]

• Tim Tebow shares the inspiration for his book Look Again, emphasizing:
  • The “royal worth statement”—everyone is made in God’s image, every person has intrinsic value, “royalty on board.”
  • The challenge in our divisive culture: look again at yourself and everyone you see as valuable.
  • Key quote: “Don’t look past, don’t look away… Value people.” (84:14)
  • Dave: “What’s more valuable to God? That individual. The stars also.” (83:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave Ramsey on Big Banks:
  “Bank of America sucks, as you have discovered, my friend.” (01:33)
• Dr. John DeLoney on Psychological Safety:
  “…having cash at my house honestly is not going to protect me from the meteorite, but it’s going to make me sleep better. That in itself is worth it.” (03:42)
• On Contentment and Arrival:
  “Contentment is kind of a bully… you never really get to hit him in the nose.” (45:00) “Contentment might be the most powerful financial principle.” (51:31)
• On Personal Responsibility:
  “When tragedy occurs, not if, it has financial implications. Somehow you’ve got to cut off the damage, not expand the damage.” (97:52)
• On Parental Money:
  “Even a nice master is a master.” (63:45)
• Tim Tebow on Human Value:
  “It’s a royal worth statement… We’ve forgotten the value of every single life.” (80:48)
• Brittany’s Dad:
  “Every week… I’m so proud of you… That was huge just to have that reinforcement all the time.” (114:21)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Cash at Home & Banks: 00:46–08:15
• Marriage, In-laws, and Boundaries: 11:18–19:44
• Van Dilemma & Snowballing Debt: 21:26–27:04
• Budgeting in Remarriage: 27:14–33:06
• Cohabitation, HELOCs, and Legal Nightmares: 33:06–39:12
• Major Car Debt for Young Family: 39:12–42:36
• Freedom After Debt Payoff (Contentment): 43:34–51:31
• Parent Loans and Forever Homes: 56:14–63:54
• Insurance Disaster & Resetting Life: 86:20–105:03
• Tim Tebow Interview: 75:43–85:19
• Millennial Debt-Free Screams: 106:50–115:48

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Tone and Language

Dave and John keep a blunt, compassionate, often humorous tone—never mincing words about “stupid” decisions but generously offering hope for recovery. They provide tough love while rooting for every caller to claim their own agency over their financial future.

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Conclusion

The episode’s core message: Anyone can recover and build wealth by confronting reality, being intentional, setting boundaries (in family and with money), and refusing to be careless or passive. Living on less than you make, communicating clearly, and prioritizing contentment over comparison are the keys to true freedom and peace with money.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, Ph.D. in counseling, host of the Dr. John DeLoney Show, One of our most popular shows shows on the Ramsey Network is my co host today. Open phones at 888, 825-5225. Jay is in Massachusetts. Hi, Jay, how are you?

[Caller]

Good, thank you. Thanks for taking my call today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I'm wondering if I should keep a certain amount of cash at my house. I had something that came up several months ago. Somebody asked me to transfer some money. I opened up my app, my bank of America app, and everything read zero all. And I'm looking at it, I'm saying, well, maybe this is just, you know, I can transfer it anyway. And I tried and it says insufficient funds. And so I call them and I'm on hold for 25 minutes and then it hangs up on me. I try calling back and it's busy. Like the rest of the world is trying to call them at the same time. And finally after about 45 minutes, it reset itself. And I'm like, I didn't have any money. What if I really needed money and I couldn't get access to that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the problem is not whether you have cash at home. The problem is you're dealing with the world's worst bank. Bank of America sucks, as you have discovered, my friend. So, yeah, you need to get with a small town local bank or a good credit union, like Fairwinds Credit Union, and then somebody will actually answer the freaking phone on the other end. But bank of America is. They're robotic and ridiculous. No, I wouldn't. The best thing you can do is stay away from them. Like way away. Now let's go back. So should you keep cash at home? You can't keep enough cash at home to sustain life if the entire banking system collapsed and you could never access your money again. Right? I mean, so there's not enough cash for that. Besides, that cash probably won't work if that's happened, because there's probably something else going on, too. You'll probably just need bullets and water and gasoline at that point. But, you know, so, I mean, it's like survival stuff, right? Prepping stuff, that kind of thing. So. But do you want to keep some cash at Home just for access. Yeah. I mean, what's the biggest possible event that if you couldn't, if you had that happen again, that you would want. How much money would you want to lay your hands on? And can you do that safely in your neighborhood in a nice safe inside your home? How much?

[Caller]

I don't know, maybe a thousand to $2,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, and so if somebody broke in and stole that, it probably doesn't ruin your life, right?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you know, get you a little safe of some kind. I've got a little safe. I though I'm a redneck. I've always got a thousand bucks in my pocket. That's a redneck emergency fund. Right. 1010. Uncle Ben's. Right. Just to say I can. And, and so that, you know, I need to replenish those after tips sometimes. And so I've got a little stack and a little safe. Nothing, nothing dramatic, but it just keeps. Makes it a little harder. But if somebody stole all of it, it really wouldn't change my life. And this wouldn't change your life. Would I tell you to keep, you know, half a million dollars in home? No. No, I wouldn't pay you to do that.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

John, do you have a half million in your safe?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Half million nickels, maybe nickels your grandpa left you? That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Now, Jay, I'm with you, man. I like, I like. Here's the thing. Most of the time it's an illusion. And I've. Here's a better example. I got a buddy who's a world renowned nutrition expert and I told him I was taking some supplement and that I suddenly felt better. He laughed and said, well, the science doesn't agree with you, but here's what's more important, the placebo effect. The fact that you took this and you feel better is actually a net benefit. So I'm going to tell you to keep doing it because there's no harm to it. And so I know that having cash at my house, honestly, is not going to protect me from the meteorite, but it's going to make me sleep a little bit better. And that is in and of itself is worth having it around. Right. And also I, I like to get the random kid knocking on my door selling something. I like to blow their mind every once in a while. And so, yeah, it's fun to have a little cash around. You can have a good time with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Give them 10 or 12,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not that much. Nickels. Yeah. Here kid, here's a thousand nickels. Carry on. Right, no, but, but I like having a little cash around. But, but I'm with you, Dave. Like, you can't have, don't have half million dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

And again, if you're, it depends on the neighborhood, depends on who's in and out of your house and if you got people coming in there that are helping you or something like that, I don't want to create a temptation for someone and those kinds of things. So, yeah, yeah, you know, I would keep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It makes me feel better. And yeah, that's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that. But, but I, if you take it too far, then you are, it is an illusion, right. That it's real, that it really is going to fix everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When I went to buy my third deep freezer, my wife's like, hey, you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'Re, you're getting out of control. Your deer hunting and you're prepping is both out of control. Ye. Yeah, that's a good thing. So, yeah, I would keep some around for that reason. But the big thing this whole call points out is you need to change banks. That's what the whole thing's about. Really. I mean, really, at the end of the day, because honestly, that's the kind of experience people have had with the Wells Fargo's and the Fifth Thirds and the bank of Americas and so forth. They're just mammoth. I mean, Wells Fargo had 200,000 employees commit fraud. Employees. I mean, to start with, you got 200,000 employees, but you have 200,000. I mean, that's cray cray just how to put your head around that? And then you think they're going to notice you with your $8,000 in your checking account. They don't care.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This suddenly went to zero, which is your whole world.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And it doesn't even show up on their seismograph. Right. So, yeah, I know I want to deal with enough of a click and mortar that I can get my hands around someone's throat. I mean, I get somebody on the phone, but yeah, I want my money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm still old school, man. I still like to drive down to the bank. I do, I do. And it drives my wife crazy, but I still like to go down and meet with somebody. And those, those lobbies are getting smaller and smaller. The number of the staff is getting smaller and smaller. But I, I won't bank with somebody that I can't walk in and shake their hand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or that I don't have someone's cell number. Like, that's just a, that's just a. It's my Money. And for me, it's how I take care of my kids, man. And I think we are sometimes pretty absent minded about it. Just throwing it up to whatever, whatever online bank has the biggest, you know, the best deal or what. Yeah, I don't know. For me it's a big deal and I want to go shake somebody's hand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it is why that we have partnered up with. And now I've even, even expanded the partnership with Fairwinds Credit Union. Yeah, dude, that's. They're just so cool. I mean they've even done this thing. I just love this right here. So they've got a new debit card out with the Ramsey bundle. On the front of it it says debt is normal, be weird. Now that's a piece of plastic that says debt is normal, be weird. That's my favorite thing ever right there. So. But I mean that's. That they're. That they are not there to put everybody in debt. They're there to just take care of folks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Take care of folks. Yeah. And that means they're going to answer the phone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. And by and large, credit unions are really the good place to do that. And by and large your small town regional local bank, that's a good thing to. That's a good place to park your money and keep it. Keep your hands on it and. But you need to be, like you said, thoughtful about that. Not just. You don't have to be paranoid or weird or conspiracy theory or anything like that. But that's good that I'm a bit of a luddite.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, I know I'm an old soul and I like to go shake someone's hand and I know that's not a thing anymore, but there is this idea. Just be thoughtful about where you're putting it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I always remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're about to say something to get yourself in trouble.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No, it just, it didn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

America, you just watched Dave Ramsey experience wisdom.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that was just editing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Self editing.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was good. It was really good editing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me. An old man can't learn. That's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I just felt it. I felt it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was awesome. Let's face it, health insurance today is more complicated than ever. The system isn't built to help the average person understand. And it leaves too many families unprotected. That's why you need my friends at Health Trust Financial. They aren't just brokers. They're trusted health insurance advisors who have been helping families like yours for over 20 years. You don't have to navigate it alone. The experts at Health Trust Financial listen to your needs, work to understand your family situation and budget, then help you choose the health insurance plan that's right for you. That's why they're Ramsey trusted and why we've worked with them for two decades. Look, medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in America today. One hospital visit can wipe out your savings and undo all your hard work. So health insurance isn't optional. It's part of your financial defense plan. Health Trust Financial knows their stuff and they're the only health insurance provider I recommend. So get clear about health insurance plans and get the coverage that's right for you@healthtrust financial financial.com Everyone needs insurance, but we all kind of hate it really. You know, I mean, like, we hate it sometimes because we don't understand it because we write a lot of checks. Doesn't seem like we get anything for it. It's just a pain. But, you know, you need a good defense. You don't want to buy the wrong kinds of insurance. So with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro, you'll never to deal with a sleazy business or slimy salespeople because they're all interviewed, vetted and coached to make sure that they're market experts by us who have your best interest at heart. You want to find out who's in your area that'll help you with your insurance. Yeah. And do the right thing and teach you in the process all that stuff. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com coverage and find the type of insurance you're looking for and then connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. You can click the, click the link in the show notes too, if you want. Masons in Huntsville, Alabama. Hi, Mason, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey. So my fiance and I are getting married in a month. Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So congratulations.

[Caller]

I just have a. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. We're excited. I have a few questions regarding just making decisions for our future. Making sure that, you know, once we get married, we believe in what you guys teach. You know, we're a family unit. We want to make sure that us as husband and wife are good as a family before, you know, we're, you know, prioritizing our, you know, extended family at that point. So my question would be, I have two pronged question if we have time. My first question would be my. My parents have a basically a mother in law suite. It's a guest house on their property. They live on five acres. We have the opportunity to live there. It's a one bedroom, one bathroom house for $250 a month for the foreseeable future. Really. So my first pronged question would be, what's your opinion on that? I mean, should we think about doing that, Saving the money up front? We have a pretty good income for our age. We're, you know, both one year out of college and we're 22 and 23. So that has, you know, nothing. You know, that would be a step up for us.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you dropped your phone or something.

[Caller]

Too close to my parents.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't wait. The last. You dropped your phone, what happened? Can you speak directly into it again?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you, can you. Yeah, stay, stay with that question again. Ask the last part of your question. What'd you say?

[Caller]

I just asked your opinion on us living that close to my parents for, you know, it, it is a, it is a small amount to pay, but we don't want to sacrifice, you know, living too close to my parents and possibly, you know, hindering our marriage because we're so close to them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It depends on the, the question beneath the question, like it's costing you 250 bucks. But what's the real cost if they're going to let you be married and not try to interfere with your life and your mom isn't going to try to like add a daughter to the people she gets to boss around, including you, then no, I would say go get your own place. If they're going to rent you a place in the back of their five acres and let y' all have your marriage and not require you to come to family dinners every night and all that, and they're cutting you a break to get you all launched out. That can be a great idea.

[Caller]

Right? That would be more of the scenario that I think we would fall on to fall under.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because of course you say that it's your parents. What does she say?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, what's wife say?

[Caller]

Right. She actually agrees that she, she. We both agree that we would much rather have our own place. But my parents and, you know, Haley, my fiance, she gets along with my parents and I mean, they don't have any quarrels or any kind and you know. Yeah, we both agree. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think it's really important that you and your fiance sit down and say, okay, when we move in, we're only going to do one meal a week and we're only going to do it for six months. We're only going to this y' all create some boundaries and then be a be. If you're going to be a grown man, you're getting married, you're getting your own place, sit down with your parents and say, hey, this is important to us that we establish this. Does this sound cool with y'? All?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the unmet expectations. The unmet. I thought you were going to. Well, you guys aren't. We're doing this for y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And why aren't you doing this for us? That's what causes the problem.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller]

So it's not the proximity. It's. It's not. Not having boundaries. And the proximity could be no issue if we set those boundaries in our firm with them. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And, you know, the other thing is, if they become a problem, just jet. Yeah.

[Caller]

Move. Right, right. Our other other part with that would be. I do have a car payment that I am, you know, heavily thinking about getting out of. I. She has a small amount of student loans, and like I said, we have a fairly good income for.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your all's income? You mentioned that twice.

[Caller]

It's about 95.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. That'll be your combined income.

[Caller]

That would be our combined. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how old are you? Like 24, you said, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

23.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

No, sir, I'm 22.

[Dave Ramsey]

22.

[Caller]

Okay, cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for y'. All. Well done.

[Caller]

I do owe 20,000 on my book. It's worth about 24, and it's about 400amonth. But like I said, you know, I currently live with my parents, and she's currently living in that house because she works closer to the city that I live in, but we aren't living together. But I am paying. I'm paying my dad, like I said, a very small amount, 250amonth. And I can't afford the $400. But, I mean, I've listened to you since I was young, and it was. It's just been something on my mind to kind of get that out of the way before I get married and not have that payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're not gonna make it by next week. You say you're getting married next week?

[Caller]

Next month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Month, yeah. I don't think you're gonna pay off 20 grand by next month, are you?

[Caller]

I wouldn't, but it's a possibility of selling it and then getting a different vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you could do that. I mean, that's okay. So if you've been listening a long time, you know, our general math rule of thumb is don't own vehicles, things with motors and wheels that add up to more than half your annual income. And so if her car is 25,000, then you're there. And I don't think it is. So, you know, the second thing is, is if you can't be debt free everything but the house within two years by keeping the car, then the car is too much. And neither of those are true in this case. You could be debt free in a year, easy, and your truck is less than half your annual income. But it wouldn't kill you to sell it and get a $4,000 truck that's paid for and you all start your life fresh and just start stacking cash, man. Just start stacking cash and start talking about buying a house in a year and a half or two years and see how big a big old pile of money you can make because you're driving a lesser truck. That won't kill you either one is okay. You're. Neither one is going to stunt your financial growth substantially. But, you know, what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? I'd probably sell a truck personally. But it's not. It's not like you're in the stupid column if you don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've done the. I did the exact thing when I was a few years into being married, sold the truck and had to take a check to the title company because I was underwater on it. But I just. I wanted to be clear of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, you know, what I would do is this. I would wait until you've been married three months and then make the decision.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a good call.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need to make the decision right now with all this other stuff swimming around. Let's just get married, get settled in, get in the rhythm of life, then go, yeah, truck's gone, or no, I want to keep it, I'll knock it out. Either one's fine with me. And again, you need agreement from your spouse, not your parents on that. So the, the big issue on your first question, I agree with John is just, can we actually have and set up a. An independent household emotionally and relationally with reasonable boundaries being in this apartment? Some people can. Truth is, not many. Not many. What would you say? 1 in 10? I don't know, 2 and 10? Maybe. Maybe.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, it depends on so many different factors. I think that this is one of those things that rarely is this the solution to everything. Usually when people say, hey, I need help working on my communication with my spouse, usually that means I want them to do what I say, right in this Case communication is actually the answer, which is make sure you're communicating with your parents. Make sure you're communicating with each other. And you'll have set up these irregular rhythms where you can look her in the eye and say, are we still good? We still good to be here? And she's like, I. I got to go. And you're like, cool, we're getting out of here. Because she's the priority.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your new wife, not your mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You know, and where are you in the birth order? And you're the first one to leave home, break your mother's heart and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, all that stuff shows up in it. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But 250 bucks rent, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty sweet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We can set you up for a. A totally different life if y' all can. Can talk here with you if you bank.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you bank it. Bank the difference. Stack the cash, baby. Stack the cash. That's pretty sweet. Yeah. I'm just thinking our kids are. And the eight grandkids are all within 25 minutes. And I don't just show up on their doorstep, nor are you mandated to do any family gathering unless you've committed to it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you say you're in, you're in.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you said you're in, we expect you be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're ordering food.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but don't just go, oh, no. I mean, we're freaking cooking for you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not Ray Romano's family. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. No popping out here. That's popping in, popping out stuff. But other than that, I mean, it's. Yeah. We have not had any major issues with that. Knock on wood. There you go.

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[Caller]

Exclusive.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maddie's in Minnesota. Hi, Maddie, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm good. I'm so happy to be here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honored to have you. How can we help?

[Caller]

Okay, so quick baby step question. This is kind of flipping the script for us. We just started binging the show and starting the baby steps. I want to keep our somewhat new Toyota family minivan and snowball it, but my husband wants to sell it to become debt free. We both have ADHD and get really into things but then fail at continuing like new hobbies, for example. And I'm scared if we go for a quick six and sell the minivan will be, oh, we're, we'll be like, oh, we're debt free. We're good to go now. Whereas if we snowball this, we'll have motivation and experience living like nobody else. Plus still have a more long term car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Self awareness is a pretty cool thing. Way to go. That's neat. It's very observant because that's actually a true statement about all of us, that if we get a quick fix, it doesn't off, it doesn't stick as often as if we have to gut it out. Right, Right. And so yeah, that's, that's true of all of us. So the van has how much oat on it?

[Caller]

20.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much debt do you guys have? Not counting your house?

[Caller]

Just almost onto student loans. 4,000 left of student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the van and one student loan.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

24. 24,000. And you're debt free. Right, not counting the house? Yeah. Okay.

[Caller]

Less than a year in theory. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your household income is what?

[Caller]

160?

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you hate the van?

[Caller]

No, we love the van.

[Dave Ramsey]

You should not sell the van.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Keep the van for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not because of your reasoning, but just the van is. It's not out of line in your situation. It's, it's just represents a quick fix. But not because it's a quick. Not. I wouldn't tell you. I think your reasoning is sound, but I think you ought to just keep this van just because it's a good van and you can pay it off pretty quick. And because you're gonna have to. Here's what's gonna happen. If you sell the van, what are you gonna be doing? Saving up money. Buy another van.

[Caller]

Right, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You know, so. And you make 160 and you'll be able to do that pretty quick. And so you're selling the van. Why? So I can buy another one in a year or in eight months or something? No, that's, that's A bad use of all your brain calories. No, I would just. Right, yeah. No, I would just buckle down, pay it off, and you will get the benefit of the thing you brought up while you're doing that.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you all do for a living? What's the 160 coming from? It's a great income.

[Caller]

Thank you. It's. You'll be shocked by this. My husband is a social worker, and I'm an artist.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Yeah. And so here's what's back to your original point then. That is super valid. Neither one of you are. By your careers, anyway, are process people. Okay. You are. You deal with a lot of subjective things, not objective things. And in order to win at money, you have to develop some processes that you stick to. And that was, in a sense, what you said at the opening of the call. You said the exact same thing with a lot of wisdom.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so the. I'll give you an example. We live in Nashville, and so a lot of the country music people are my friends. And there's two types of country music people. The ones that are pure artists, and then there are those that are artists and actually have some business acumen. The pure artists are the ones usually get taken to the cleaners by some crooked manager. And the ones that have a little bit of business acumen become household names for decades.

[Caller]

Oh, thank you. And so I guess artist turned business owner is my career, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Oh, you're running a business.

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah. You get a kick out of this? Maybe. We sell custom paint by number kits of people's pets so customers send us a photo.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I thought you were like. I thought you were standing in front of an easel. Paint by numbers is a process. This is awesome. Okay. You're making my point for me. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

George Camel has 50 of your products for his little precious dogs. That's awesome. Good for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, now. Yeah. Okay, now y' all need them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have y' all ever done a thing longer than your marriage? Have you ever stuck to a workout program, a nutrition program, a. Anything like that? Longer than your marriage?

[Caller]

For me, being an artist slash business owner, but that's basically it. Okay, so that's a good point, y'.

[Dave Ramsey]

All.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want y' all to practice this like you're like. Like it's a new muscle.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because you're gonna find your marriage is going to get better on the back end of y' all grinding this thing out together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're not talking seven years like most like or multiple years like most People who call y' all are talking like a few months. Y' all make a ton of money. Y' all can pay this off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I want you all to practice building this muscle.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I completely made the wrong assumption about you. Obviously, you are a systems and a process person. And so the very nature. Paint by number. Oh, my gosh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I mean, but also, like, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's gonna. But that's gonna lend itself to the wisdom of her question, the way she posed her question. And so, yes, go keep the van. And you guys, let that be the first part of your muscle of you working together, working money as a system, as a process. Build us, Build that muscle. Like John saying, that's the answer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it's. It's a good. It's a good exercise.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. Good. I love it, Matty.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love it, people. It's one of my favorites.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very well done. Nicole is in Ohio. Hi, Nicole, how are you?

[Caller]

Hello. I'm good, thank you. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

Well, I'm calling because my husband and I got married a year and a half ago. It's both of our second marriage, so I was married for 20 plus years, sharing finances with my former spouse, and he was single for 15 years or divorced for 15 years when we met. And so this month is our first month having our budget meeting, and we make, I wouldn't say significantly different amount, but enough for it to be a difference. And so I just wanted to find out if I could get some suggestions on how to go about approaching it so that we can start saving for our dreams and goals and things like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Good for you. Well, the fact that you've been through one that failed and he's been single a long time with no boss in his life except the guy in his mirror, makes it harder for the two of you to just go, woo hoo. We're both going to throw in and go right? If you were 22 and you didn't have any of these scars or any of these ruts where you were stuck in singleness for 15 years or anything like that, that you would just jump in and go, whoo, let's go. But you guys, this is going to be hard for y'. All. Teaching an old dog new tricks is tough, right?

[Caller]

Yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's going to be worth it. It's going to be worth it. Jesus said your treasures where your heart is. When you agree on your spending, you're agreeing on what you value, what you prioritize, you're agreeing on your fears. You're agreeing on your dreams. It's not the money that matters. It's that we're agreeing on where the money's going and that that means we're agreeing on what's important.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's a big thing. And that's going to be. There's going to be some polishing going on. There's going to be this. A couple of these rocks are a little rough, and they're not going to be smooth stones. Easy. You're going to have to. You're going to have to hold your breath a couple times, girl.

[Caller]

Okay? Okay. Yeah. Because he is the type where he wants to be, you know, he's a manly man, if that makes sense. And so I don't want to be. I don't know if we should do, like, percentages or.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you need to do dollars. Manly men work with their wives all the time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And manly men put their. Their childish egos aside for building something that's greater than themselves, which is one plus one equals one when you get married.

[Caller]

Yes. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you have to have the courage when you're putting your money in the same checking account to say the words, this makes me very scared.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, the last bozo messed me up. And you're not that bozo. But I still have that scar.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And a manly man wants his partner to feel safe.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay, got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But there might. What you're saying is there might be a hunting rifle in the budget somewhere.

[Caller]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. That can be there. And there could be a nice pair of shoes in there for you, too. I don't care. I just want you to be in agreement on it and not come in and go, look what I did. Honey. No, no, no, no. We're going to be in agreement. We're going to decide in ahead of time what we're going to do. We're going to lock together. Because as John said, one plus one equals one. Actually, it equals probably about five. Because you get the power of synergy, the marriage advantage, all the data calls it. If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing. Because normal is broke. And I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fairwinds Credit Union. Our friends at Fairwinds just launched a brand new Ramsey debit card and it says, debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. I love that. Because every time you swipe it, you're choosing to live differently with no credit card payments and no debt. You see, Fairwinds has been helping people like you ditch debt faster and build wealth for years. They're not trying to shove credit cards or auto loans in your face like the big banks do. And they've worked with us to create the smart bundle for Ramsey fans. It includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account to supercharge your emergency fund, and now the Ramsey debit card to help you stay focused on the baby steps. We're excited for you to try it, so check them out [e-mail] Ramsey that's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA. The Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by. Why Refi defaulted? Private student loans can drag on for years, but why Refi helps borrowers explore custom refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment you can actually manage. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not available in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Today's question comes from Molly in Minnesota. Molly writes, my partner and I bought a house together, but I'm the one who made the down payment. We can already tell you we got a problem. He shares the monthly payment expense, but hasn't said anything about paying me back for half the money I put. But okay, should I ask him to take out a hel. Just Molly, no. Y' all break up. Just break up and sell the house and move on. Should I ask him to take out a HELOC and pay it off to pay me back for his house half of the down payment?

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what's interesting is, is this is the actual first time I've seen the proper use of the word partner.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, like. Like my.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is like a business partner. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he owes me money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, by the way, I sleep with.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Him on the building I bought. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're well got number one. Don't take off a heloc. This is. You're like you're trying to punish him. Don't do that. Because y' all bought a house together. And so you telling him to take out a HELOC that he has to pay back actually puts your house at risk. Don't do that. That's silly. The bigger issue here is you all have some major fractures in your relationship, and you'll need to address those on the front end. You should have addressed them before you entered into a legal binding contract called the purchase of a house together. But y' all are already here. Yeah, y' all got big issues. I don't even know where to start with this, Dave, other than just to say, don't do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can I pull the pin and throw the grenade?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. Here we go. You have two choices to fix this, Molly. Get married by Saturday and stop this shacking up crap because you're doing things backwards, or sell the house. Those are the only two ways you will survive this. Both ways. You have a potential to survive it, but you're not going to survive it the way you are not going to work because you entered into a business arrangement with a person you're sleeping with with absolutely no written partnership documents. And this is going to go sideways, and you have no out when it goes sideways. He could just leave and you never see him again. And you can't even find him to get the house sold because you can't get him to sign the deed. He could be in a car wreck. That happened to one caller, and she called me up and said, yeah, now I own the house with his mom. Because, by the way, he doesn't have a will either. Because you people aren't real good about doing paperwork on stuff. I can tell. And so he didn't have a will. So guess who his heir is. It's not his girlfriend that he sleeps with, I can tell you that. That'd be his mom and dad. That'd be who gets this stuff if there's no will. The blood heirs. And so now you are partners in a house with the mother of a guy who didn't repay your his portion of the down payment. Oh, this is not going to go well, Molly. People never let me help you with this. The word was never. I didn't have a caveat. There was no. Except there's a complete never. Capital N E V E R. Buy a house with someone you're not married to under any circumstances, period. Everything that can go wrong in this life will go wrong at some time or another. And you are stuck in a house with that guy. You find out he's doing cocaine. You find out he's got a secretary that he's more in love with than you. You find out and you're just stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck, with no legal or business recourse to get your little butt out of this mess. And you're just beginning to discover how uncomfortable that is when there's one little tiny thing about the down payment didn't come up. Like, you guys shouldn't have talked about that on the front end.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think they did. And he's just not, quote, unquote, paying her back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, but what happens when he doesn't do what he says he's going to do? Then he.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then he needs to go take out a heloc.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, off. And put us as lean on my house. It's just dumber and crud. Yeah. I'm deadly serious. There's only two ways to fix this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm going to. I want to caveat. I don't think they should get married. I think there's too many issues here.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but I'm just saying to protect her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. That's what you're saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, but now, because. So. So at least when there's a divorce, right, she has a. There's a. There's a mechanism, there's a process for getting rid of this stupid house, but right now, there's no legal mechanism for getting rid of this stupid house except getting rid of this stupid house. So. And here's another prediction. She ain't gonna do any of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we're just telling you all these stories so that the rest of y' all don't do what Molly did. That's the only reason we brought it up, because Molly ain't gonna do anything except what Molly wants. I can tell.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wonder. Can I ask you this? This is just fun. I. I wonder if in the state of Minnesota, I wonder if he would have, like, eviction rights. Like, if she went. Dumped him today and said, get out of this house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who gets the house?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Who gets the house?

[Dave Ramsey]

Who gets the French photo dog.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Who has to. Who gets to stay? And then I got to give you 30 days eviction, and then you got to give 30 days, and it's going to go to court. I got squatters, right? Like, this could get really messy really quick.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, you know, spray can lines down the middle of the hallway. This is my half. This is your half.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

My dishes. That's my half. The sink. No water on my side of the sink.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's your Tabasco. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. What a bad job this is. People acting like they're married when they're not married. And the whole system in the United States is not set up for you. Sorry, darling. The English law does not. English laws what were modeled after. And it doesn't set up with the exception Louisiana, which is French law, and it's not set up for it either. So just to help y', all, that's the way this stuff is laid out. You're screwed in These messes. Oh my gosh. All right. Carmen's in Colorado. Hi Carmen, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Thanks for answering my call. I'm calling in today because my husband and I need your help on what to do to get out of debt and start saving for a house. My husband is 22 years old, I'm 24 and we have a one year old son. My husband is in his second year of electrician apprenticing through a union. And I just went back to work in July as a dental assistant. So my husband gets paid weekly. His gross pay before taxes on a check is about 900. But after taxes is like 696. And then so for the whole month it's about 2,784. I get paid bi weekly. My pay for the month is about 15 to 1800amonth. My husband pays all the bills, which all together our bills are about 2,753. So with his check, as you can tell, we're left with maybe a few dollars after his check, after the bills. But including inside the bills, we have tithing which is 240. So every week we put in $60 from a check to tithe. I pay my car payment and then the groceries and gas. That adds up.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe on your car, hon?

[Caller]

So here's the stupid thing that we just did. I had a 2021 Jeep Compass. It was about 22,000 that I owed on it. And the car was getting too small. We couldn't fit the baby's car seat in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe on car, honey?

[Caller]

44, 000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now you have to sell your car. Your that car is going to bankrupt you.

[Caller]

The car.

[Dave Ramsey]

That car is in the land of crazy. If you look up crazy in the dictionary, you're going to see a picture of this car.

[Caller]

Yeah, okay. That's what me and my husband have been talking about too, about selling his truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to get a four thousand dollar car that you pay cash for.

[Caller]

Okay, so that's one thing too. We only have a thousand in our emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. That's a good start. And the two. And you know your number. You know your numbers. So even though he's been paying the bills, sounds like y' all are working on this together. That's really good news. You're doing a good job with that. Yeah, but the car is like way over in crazy land. Are you gonna sell it or not?

[Caller]

Yeah, well you said to sell it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So No, I said to sell it. I asked you if you were gonna do it.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This weekend. Yes, this weekend.

[Dave Ramsey]

Put a sale sign on it. Let's go.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The car owns y'. All. You don't own it.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then that's gonna free up so much. And then you guys keep doing your every dollar budget. We're gonna give you a free year for every dollar and it's gonna give you a step by step thing of exactly what to do after you get out from under this car payment and how you can walk your way into some savings out of debt and start talking about building the life. Because right now y' all don't make much money. But you're just getting started and you'll get there and he'll be making more money as he gets out of the apprenticeship. Right now he's starving to death though. Y' all will get there, but this car is way off the chain.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. Dr. John DeLoney, Ph.D. in counseling Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Brittany is in Indiana. Hi Brittany, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Great. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

I am calling. We paid off our house in 2023. Awesome. And we. Yeah. We have no debt. We are following your baby steps and your advice as much as we can. The reason I'm calling is we don't feel the sense of freedom. Yes. That we kind of expected or wanted because we're currently saving for a big home renovation. Our house was built in the 70s and has a lot of the original exterior components and a lot of them are in need of being replaced. They're quickly going from a cosmetic need to those windows need replaced type thing. And we're still trying to balance the enjoying freedom with Our house paid off with staying intense so that we can get that reno done and then really feel free. And I guess we were just. I was just looking for some words of wisdom or perspective on how to stay patient while you're saving for a big project like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it is devastating that no matter what stage of money you get at, you find out it's finite.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just a pain in the butt. It doesn't matter what you're driving, that there's always another one to drive. It doesn't matter where you live, there's always another one to live, and you never really arrive at that. Contentment is kind of a bully in the schoolyard. It says, step across this line and I'll punch you. You step across the line, it backs up and draws another line. You know, it's a moving target, this contentment thing. And, and that's, you know, I've run into it too. I completely relate to the feeling that you have. It's like you kind of thought when you got here it was gonna be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Easy, you wouldn't have to worry about it anymore, you could just do whatever you want, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's not. You intellectually didn't think it was gonna be unlimited, but emotionally you felt like you were gonna feel like you were unlimited.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, I'm a millionaire, I don't have to budget anymore.

[Caller]

What was that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's like, I'm a millionaire, I shouldn't have to budget anymore, right?

[Caller]

Well, we, we do still budget. I mean, and I know you do.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just talking about feel the feeling, feeling the emotion.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's annoying.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, it is annoying. And it's also, it's hard because we thought, well, we would be able to use more of our, our so called extra money for things like bigger, nicer vacations with the kids and things like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I feel like, well, you could if you moved.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want to call out what Dave just said. Here's my promise to you. The day these renovations are over, if you and your husband don't get together ASAP and change how you experience the world, you're going to find yourself in yet another self created prison. Because y' all haven't made the switch to. We are choosing to live in an old house, which means we are choosing to update this stuff. Some stuff has to be done, some stuff doesn't, but we're going to. These are all choices. You're not owned by it, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There's two ways to fix an old house. Fix it or move right if we.

[Caller]

Were to move, I even. I have considered that, thought maybe we're. Maybe we would be better off moving. But we. There's repairs that would have to be made regardless. So it's. We're kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but the point is. The point is you're choosing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're choosing it. You're free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Choosing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank God you don't have this window project and a house payment. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, and two car payments and student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You'd be what's known as up a creek. Right. No paddle. Yeah. All that. Right. It's the whole thing. I mean, so you're. You really are. You know, you kind of got to look back in the rearview mirror and go, thank God. You know, I had a heat and air system go out on one of our properties the other day, and it was like $10,000 or something we had to spend. And I went, thank God. That's an inconvenience.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it's annoying.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's annoying versus a freaking catastrophe. Yeah. You know, which is what it used to be. Everything was a catastrophe. When your life. When you're broke, your life looks like a country song. You know, keep the dog out of the street. It'll get hit. I mean, come on. Everything that'll go on can go wrong. And so, yeah, the difference is something's annoying and has a. I kind of feel cheated versus a dad gum drama.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's an emergency. It's that old C.S. lewis quote that hell is locked on the inside side. Like, y' all have created yet another prison and then yet another prison, and yet it's just going to be a pattern until y' all decide to exhale and say, we are free. We're choosing to live in this house. We're choosing to go through these renovations, and this is going to be a pain in the butt. And we've done it before. We can do it again. And you. You laugh and you kind of get that snarl, and then you go get it. Versus this is happening to us. We are stuck here. This. It's a victim mindset. It's. It's a scarcity mindset versus a no, we can do whatever we want. And we're making this choice right here. This is a totally different reframe.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're in control. You're making a choice. You chose to do the windows and delay the travel, and that's not a bad choice.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it's a great choice. It's an annoying choice.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's probably the right choice. Even if you turn around and sell the house. Like you said, we got to fix it up to sell it. Even if we're gonna do that, that's okay, too. That's all a good choice. The great news is you have choices.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

For two reasons.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You got choices.

[Dave Ramsey]

Two reasons. One is you put yourself in this position. And two is God chose for you to be born in America, where you still have choices as opposed to someone just dictating to you what you're gonna do. So, yeah, that's the cool thing. And I gotta tell y', all, one of the things that I distinctly remember this. It's a dumb metaphor, but it actually happened. Cause I'm the spender, okay? In my house, Sharon's the natural saver. I'm the natural spender. And so I'm reading these scriptures, and it says, godliness with contentment is great gain. And so I go down the rabbit hole, I start studying contentment because I'm like, where do you find this? I want to buy a box of it. You know, I need some of this because I've been. Go get it, go get it, go get it. Acquisition, acquisition, acquisition. My whole young life, in particular in my 20s, right? So it's Jaguars and Rolexes. And I'm going to acquire. I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I'll be happy when. And, you know, the bully in the schoolyard backs up, draws a new line, says, come on. And you come on. He's, do it again. Do it again. You never really get to hit him in the nose. You never do. And so after we went broke, I went to Costco, where you can buy 25 pounds of peanut butter and you can buy 73 of anything you need one of. And they check your little receipt when you're going out because it's federal law. You have to spend $200 in there. If you don't spend it, they make you go back and finish, right? And so. So that's why they checked the receipt. And I distinctly remember, I can take you to the Costco. I had a spiritual experience. I walked out of Costco buying nothing. It was like a breakthrough.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think there's a statue of you in a Costco.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think there's a breakthrough. You know, it was like, oh, you know, I was like, I don't have to have any of this today. And it was like something snapped. It was real. It was real. And godliness with contentment is great gain. And I became convinced that contentment might be the most powerful financial principle. If you don't have contentment, you get into debt. If you do have contentment, you can save. If you don't have contentment, you're always at odds with your spouse about money. If you do have contentment, the two of you are just trying to figure out how much you can give away. It's a. It's a breakthrough. It's a financial breakthrough.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like none of the other financial principles we teach.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

True freedom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's very powerful. It's a great call. I appreciate you calling so much. I completely relate to you, Brittany. I understand your feeling. It's a very human feeling that it's just. It's a. It's a journey you're on and you'll get there.

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[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

To protect yourself, protect your income, protect Your family. So many years ago, we came up with this great idea. There were these new things on your phone called an app, an application. So we decided that Ramsey should have an app that would do your budget. And we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it, and we developed really, over the last decade or so, the world's best budgeting app, without a doubt. It's called EveryDollar. Because EveryDollar has an assignment by you. You assign every one of your dollars a place to go, give it a name. Well, what has ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years, we've invested a bazillion dollars in programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell and have managed to integrate into it the whole Ramsey plan, the Ramsey way. So, like, you guys call in and ask us detailed, nuanced questions about what you do at this baby step, or what do I do there? What do I do there's. And we've actually got almost all of that now answered inside of EveryDollar. So the all new EveryDollar, we just relaunched it the other day, and it's a complete game changer. You can watch the premiere on our YouTube channel and see how it works in action. What happens is when you go in, if you've been there before, do it again. If you've never been, go now and get into the EveryDollar app. Because what happens in just the first 15 minutes or so, you're going to find thousands of dollars of margin. And then we're going to start showing you how to apply it using the baby steps framework and the Ramsey Way, so to speak. And the Ramsey Way basically is we're going to take you from debt into wealth and generosity, change your whole family tree. We want you to get there. And so imagine. Imagine how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The all new everydollar. It's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Jake. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. Guys, how are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

So me and my wife were 24, fresh out of college a few years ago. So we decided to build a home, our forever home. And the cost kind of got out of control. Our parents stepped in, my parents stepped in. Me and my wife been blessed to have our parents by our side. They actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. There's a different story behind that, but they're very. They've accumulated some wealth over the years. They've handed us over a lump sum of money to help us build this house, and whatever's left over, we will pay back in a mortgage payment to them. Me and my wife make about 130,000 a year before taxes with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is, and we do have a good amount of savings from the past years of working. About $120,000 in savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, you have $120,000 in savings. Why the flip did your parents have to give you money?

[Caller]

They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up, and so they want to have help every single one of their kids out. I'm one of three brothers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you made it sound like you got in trouble and they bailed you out.

[Caller]

Oh, no, no, no, sir. No, no, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what happened with the house you got. You bought too much house. What's the deal with the house?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we're building.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you're still building?

[Caller]

Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you just started building? Yes.

[Caller]

So the deal was with them was we can collaborate with them, they can help out. I mean, we have a really good relationship with our parents. I work for them, actually. And they wanted. This is what they wanted to do. We kindly accepted it. And any cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, we would pay back to them in a mortgage. And so I guess my question is, me and my wife are still young. We're 24. We're not thinking my kids right now. Do we give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning, or do we have some of that, keep most of it and travel and have fun in our early 20s?

[Dave Ramsey]

So do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel? Travel. That's in essence, where this lands. When I say it that way. Does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me?

[Caller]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. No, you did grown up stuff and went and bought a house at 24 years old, pay for your stinking house, and then start talking about traveling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have a good relationship with your parents?

[Caller]

Very good.

Good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The surest ways, and the surest way to blow it up is to have money in between you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I know that's a weird, hard thing to say at 24, especially when you got two people who are like, no, it's no big deal. It's no big deal. Just take it from two Older guys clear the money between your relationships so that it can stay as good as it is right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I think I heard a two stage deal here. Like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough and so then they loaned you more. Is that right?

[Caller]

Yes, they loaned us the full amount of whatever it costs for the house. We're paying for it in cash to build. So they're not taking loan out from any. They've been completely debt free since 2008.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but you now owe them. Yeah, a mortgage payment. Okay, so that part where they went through Financial Peace University, they flunked the class because we tell you not to do that ever. Don't ever loan your children money. Oh, my God.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because it puts a wedge between the relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

The borrower is slave to the lender. Now you have to eat dinner. Hey, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master. Yeah. That's going to be painful for your wife. Not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife.

[Caller]

Understood.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on?

[Caller]

Probably going to be around. Around 200 to 250,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how much of a gift did they give you?

[Caller]

About 50% of the total cost to build. So about 200 to 250,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're 24 years old, you make 130, and you got a $450,000 house.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dang, Gina.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a lot of house, dude. That's a lot of house.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, well, for sure, the answer to your question is no, you don't need to go on vacation. Yes, you need to do the. Take the 130,000. But I'm even going to go a step further. I'm going to put the 130,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage. And then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage. Not from your parents.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I don't want this mortgage. I don't want you paying payments to your parents for any amount of money, for any amount of interest. I don't think you're going to do that because I think you guys have worked out this detailed thing in all of your heads that this all works out to the point that you're ready to go to Europe instead of paying back.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what I would say. I can see myself working really hard so I can bulldoze a path for my son and his new wife. I get that, but if my son was to hand me a check for 130 grand and say, dad, dad, I've got this money saved up. This is the part of the mortgage. And then I want you to see here, I'm giving you the rest of it. I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son. I don't want to stay one of your, like, I don't, I don't want you to be my banker. I would be so proud. And in a way, you're kind of not showing him up, but you're kind of saying, I'm taking this by, I'm taking the reins here, it would show a level of wisdom and maturity. I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can, dad. Because the arrangement he's put you in is madness. It just ends in somebody wanting you to do something for Christmas and your wife doesn't want to and it's like, well, after all we've, it just, it's just a recipe for disaster. But man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it. And by the way, that's a tiny mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a hundred, one hundred twenty thousand dollar mortgage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a tiny, tiny, tiny mortgage. Just go do that, man. You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as y' all make.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you don't go on trips.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. If you don't go to your Europe. And by the way, you're. I don't know, Dave. Trips are more fun when I, when I'm older now. I don't know why, they just are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, they're more fun because they don't follow you home. But in essence, that's what this ends up being.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't have a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Borrow from mom and dad by the amount that we spend on the trips. And so it's like borrowing on the trip, borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip. And obviously that would be ludicrous. So moms and dads, those of you that graduated from Financial Peace University with a better grade than that mom and dad got, which was an F, here's the rule, okay? If you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house, and part of the bargain is they never borrow money again because you want your family tree to be completely changed. Great. Never make your child, your grown child, your slave. You change your relationship with your daughter in law, your son in law, you change the relationship in how you interact with each other. It's just you're adding layers to it that you were unintended, but they're very real. And no one is the exception. Even a nice master is a master.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Tim is in Ohio. Hey, Tim, what's up?

[Caller]

It's Ken. Ken.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, sorry. Hey, Kelly, it's Ken. Okay, Ken. Okay. I was just reading my screen. Pardon me. How can I help?

[Caller]

That's another problem. Yes, Dave. So I year and a half ago, I got into your program and stuff. And let me thank you from the bottom of my heart because that completely changed everything for me. And with if I'm married now and my wife is 62, I am 55 and I work for the state and I have opers. And we have to. We don't have a choice. We have to put in 10% of our gross income into that. And then the state also matches that 10% and adds 4%. My wife's 401k they do know do not have any company match her late husband only would allow her 5 to 6% and not aggressive at all. So there's not much in there. But we currently have 27,500 in debt. There's 44,000 in that account. And then we have our house and crunching the numbers and looking at things. If we take the 27,500 out of there and just wipe out that debt. That allows us to pay the house off in under five years and 18 months more of investing at $3,000 a month. Does that make sense to you?

[Dave Ramsey]

She's 62. 62. How old is she?

[Caller]

She's 62. So, yes, we understand we will be on the hook for taxes, but we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The 44, it's going to take the whole 44,000 to clear 20.

[Caller]

Okay, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or close. I mean, give or take a thousand bucks or two. But it's not. I mean, you're going to pay taxes on $44,000. Going to be at least 10 grand, right? Hello.

[Caller]

Well, we would be in the 12% tax bracket.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why y' all don't work?

[Caller]

Yes, we work.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you in a 12% tax bracket bracket?

[Caller]

Because of filing jointly and you take the first 10% off of that, then we go into the. The rest of it goes into the 12%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then what's your household income?

[Caller]

About 75,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I don't think you're doing that right, but I'm not a tax pro, and I can't do it in front of. I can't do it off the top of my head. Anyway, you're going to have taxes. It's going to eat up a lot of. Of the 40,000. And so you're basically going to cash out her retirement at 62 years old, pay the taxes, no penalties, and pay off her debt. Yes, I would do that. But make sure you set this money aside for tax.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And have somebody else calculate it other than you and me, because neither one of us are very good at it. I don't think.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I don't think you're calculating that Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But, but anyway, the, yeah, but I think the either way. Way you're going to use up most of it either way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So tell me the math behind that, Dave. Like somebody 62 going to go ahead and pull it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, if you've got retirement and he's got a bunch and they're, they're going to, you know, we don't tell people to cash out their retirement and pay before they're retired, but at 62, your retirement age and so you can pull it without any penalties, and I don't want to pay that 10% penalty, but you're going to pay your taxes on it. But, you know, like if we have somebody called in, they owe $300,000 on their house and they've got 900,000 in their 401, I'll pay off the house out of that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If they're 62 or older.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. Because I. No penalty on it. Pay off their house. That's what you. That's what you saved it up for. And in this case, it's just a blended family, a second marriage thing, and it's just a weird little account. Yeah, it's not a big account, but. But it doesn't. It doesn't really change the. The principle is. Yes. If you have enough in retirement and you can clear all your debts even and pay your taxes that you create by doing that, I would do that. As long as you've got some leftover. And of course, they've got all of you is. And they're both continuing to work and they're going to put $3,000 a month back into the program. So that's. That's where we're going. Yeah. That's no different than. Yeah. Very, very good. Christine's in Virginia. Hi, Christine. How are you?

[Caller]

Hey. I'm doing well. Dave, thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

I recently. I recently discovered you about a month ago, and I'm hooked now on your little cult, which I'm happy to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're going to send you some. We're going to send you some Kool Aid here in the mail.

[Caller]

Awesome. My question is, my husband and I are in about $87,000 of debt. I'm 60, he's 62. I want to start your program desperately. We both do, but my concern is that of that debt, 68,000 is in.

A debt settlement program.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't pay it off.

[Caller]

Really?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I thought, well, aren't I obligated to them for the 55 months I signed up for?

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope. You've already paid them. They got all their money up front. The first handful of payments you paid them, paid them. They didn't. None of your payments. The first handful went to the debt. It went to them. And then what they've done is destroyed your credit and have put you in default on everything and then set up payment plans with everybody. But I would do it as a lump sum. I probably do it as a lump sum. What kind of debt? How much of the 87 is in that?

[Caller]

68?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah, you said. Okay. All right. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

We make about 100,000 together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well, you may find that it's easier to just lump sum it and call them up and go, okay, help me settle lump sums on this rather than payments. Ask the debt settlement company to do that. How many different debts are in the 68?

[Caller]

Let's see. I was just looking at it. My problem with them is that they're not doing very well because we've had them, actually.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No way.

[Caller]

I'm sure. I was hooked up. I was hooked line and sinker. I will not lie. It's been since January.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many days?

[Caller]

Only settled two accounts, probably 10.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And they've settled two of them. Okay, well, what I would do is call them up and say, hey, I'm going to start advancing some cash towards this, and you're going to get more aggressive because I'm going to. You're going to feel my foot on your butt.

[Caller]

I don't have any extra cash to send them, though.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you do. If you're going to get out of debt, you make 100,000, something's going to change. You're going to get on beans and rice. Rice and beans. We're not going out to eat. We're not going to see the inside of restaurant unless we're working there. We're not going on vacation. We're not spending any money on anything because we're 60 years old and deeply in debt. We got to get this crap cleaned up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Christmas presents. Yeah, we're sending cards this year instead of presents for everybody.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, everybody. Here we go. The worm has turned. Times have changed. It's about to change, baby. I mean, you got to get. You got to get after it and. Because you don't. You don't want to be 70 and be looking at the, you know, half his debt still laying there because you've been toying around with it. So. But go ahead and clear the other. Other portion first. And then when you get to the debt settlement 68, then start being on the phone with them going, okay, I need to settle one more of these. Let's get some. Let's get some aggression going here. And it doesn't take five years. Then you can work through it in whatever period of time. You work through 87, making 100, which hopefully would be working extra selling stuff. Could be as early as two years, probably a little more than two years to get through that. But you're gonna have to be living on nothing. Nothing, nothing, nothing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Honey, blankets, blankets, sweaters in the house, all of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That whole thing. Turn the thermostat, turn the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, but like, it's a. It's a mind shift.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you got it. You gotta have to go. So. And here's the thing. As you know, you don't have A lot of time to do this. It's not like you got 40 years to figure this out. You got 40 months to figure this out. So you need to get with it. And you can do it. You can absolutely do it. But the debt settlement companies, boys and girls, the way they work is they collect payments from you for five years. The first set of payments they collect from you, they put 100% of it in their pocket while letting all of your credit cards and other stuff go into default. Then they go to the creditors and say, oh, these are in default. What will you take as settlement? And so even if you weren't in default, they put you there. That's their process. That's how they do it. And that's why we tell you not to do that stuff. If a washed up actor between a Snuggie ad and a gold ad on cable TV is pitching you something for nothing financial, stay away from it. Well, it happens occasionally. We've got one of our friends stopped in here, the one and only Tim Tebow. Welcome, my friend.

[Tim Tebow]

Thank you guys. So good to see y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Tim Tebow]

Thanks for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to see you again. So we were just talking papa stuff before you, as you walked in, got a new baby.

[Tim Tebow]

We do. Almost three months old. It's crazy. Now I feel like I'm actually getting old.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a little gray in the beard there. You got to be careful.

[Tim Tebow]

A little gray in the beard look.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like me for you, though.

[Tim Tebow]

But it's. It has just been such a crazy blessing. And, you know, a lot of people ask like, you know, being a dad, is it a different kind of love than you knew? And I thought a lot about it. And I don't know because the moment Demi said she was pregnant, I think I already felt it. But I'll tell you what hits you is the responsibility. Like when we get home, we got to change this cabinet, we got to change this countertop.

[Dave Ramsey]

This could.

[Tim Tebow]

She could get injured on. She could do this. You're like, you're trying to think 10 steps ahead and five years ahead. And that level of responsibility is surreal.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I always tell somebody, it's like somebody, somebody just adds two more plates on the squat rack and just that just. It sits under you and you're like, oh, this is heavy. Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

It is. So the Tim Tebow is a two time national champion Heisman trophy winner, first round NFL draft pick, speaker, college football analyst, five times New York Times best selling author. I think he'd been on here four of those times, if I remember. So I'll Take credit for a little of that. He's the founder and the leader of the Tim Tebow Foundation. He and I have done some wonderful ministry work together in and around the sex trafficking world, preventing that obviously anti. Big distinction. Yeah, I mean, we've done. We both share a love of several people that are in that space. And your team is in that space big time. And so we've had a lot of different things we've done together. New book out. Look again. Recognize your word, renew your hope, run with confidence. Now, I do know you well enough to know the truth is that you don't just sit down and randomly go, oh, time to do a book that something had to be burning and churning inside of you that you couldn't not say. And so where's that come from on this one?

[Tim Tebow]

It was really inspired several years ago, and I felt like I put it off longer than I was called to. And it was really first inspired at A Night to Shine. It's our worldwide celebration for individuals with special needs. And we were at one of the Night to Shines in Arizona, and it was during COVID And so all they're driving through the drive through and on the red carpet and we're celebrating all of these cars that are coming through and a lot of them are Corvettes. And so all the kings and queens are in the back and cheering for everyone as this massive crowd is cheering for everybody. And there's a young girl in a red Corvette as it drives around, and she is just beaming. The joy in her life and in her heart and just oozing out of her is so contagious. And as the. The Corvette pulls by and I see the back of it, and I didn't even know our teams and partnerships with the churches were even making these bumper stickers. But I saw the bumper stickers sticker and on the back it said royalty on board. And I just thought, man, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah, that's somebody's daughter, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

It is.

[Tim Tebow]

It's royalty on board. And so it really led us down this track of really studying what does it mean to be made in the image of God. And so we talked to so many incredible scholars over the last few years and diving in. A lot of people talk about the image of God is. Is rational, relational, functional, Right? How we're. We're a rational being. So logic and thought and all this that God's given us are relational, meant for relationship with each other and for God are functional to rule and reign. And I think all of those are part of it. But I think it's a step further and a step that's even more important. And that's when you really look at the, the image of blank that was used over history, especially in the ancient Near East. It was always a term used for kings or for monarchs. So Assyrian king, you know, is made in the image of Belor, an Egyptian king made in the image of, of Raw God said they believed in. And so when they would have heard that in the ancient near east that we were made in God's image, what it would have come across to them is that it's a royal worth statement. And we have forgotten that in our society that when we're made in the image of God, it's not just what we do, but it's who we are. It's. It's the worst statement that God has given us. It's a royal worth statement that he loved us so much he would create us in his image image. And we have just forgotten that. And if you look at what's happening in our societies and around the world, if you look at the boys and girls that are being exploited or trafficked or the loneliness or the suicides or all of this, it is, it's a royal worth statement. We've forgotten the, the worth of humanity. We've forgotten the value of every single life. And, and I really. My heart and prayer for this book is that part of it would be one of the most encouraging things that someone would ever read. But the second part will also be one of the most challenging things that hopefully, prayerfully, someone will ever read.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. As you're talking, I'm, I'm thinking a. The importance of hearing this. But that also means I've got a responsibility to every single person in my neighborhood.

[Tim Tebow]

Everyone you ever meet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Tim Tebow]

Is made in God's image. And the, the encouraging part is we share so much biblical truth that should be encouraging to people. Man, I'm made in God's image. It's a value statement for me. It's a love for me me. But it also is why we argued and challenged and thought over and over about the title. Why it's so important to look again is to look again at who God made me to be. But then it also applies to every single person that I see ever of all time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Check that bumper sticker.

[Tim Tebow]

Your friends and your enemies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Tim Tebow]

Every one of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Royalty on board.

[Tim Tebow]

It's royalty on board.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That, that's a profound call for this, this moment.

[Tim Tebow]

Yeah, I, I think that you, you just couldn't have, have written it or thought it and, you know, for what's taking place in our society.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Tim Tebow]

For the divisiveness, for the, the demeaning and the diminishing of people that we disagree with. For the lack of. Of value because of an argument or because a disagreement or because of a political stance or because of a background. And we diminish people. And instead of having a disagreement but still valuing people, you can do both. And as a society, we have to do a better job of valuing who God made us to be, but then also valuing everybody else.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look again. You'll see the bumper sticker. If you look again, recognize your worth, renew your hope, Run with confidence is a brand new New York Times bestseller. I'll go ahead and predict that from our friend Tim Tebow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Man, dude, I'm convicted sitting here, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

The thing keeps running through my head is I remember, like, even teaching teens years ago, you're a king's kid. Yeah. You're a king's kid. You're a king's kid. I remember a pastor saying, teaching us one time, he said, you know, in the Old Testament, in Genesis, it says God created the heavens and earth and the stars also. That's the mention of the stars. And then he spends 35 chapters on Joseph. You know, I mean, it's like, what's more. What's more valuable to God? That individual.

[Tim Tebow]

That's not even close.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not even the individual and the stars also.

[Tim Tebow]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's almost an afterthought.

[Tim Tebow]

That's right. There's only one thing that Jesus, as the son of God, came to die for people. And yet we put in place of people or above people, our cars or our watches or our praise or promotion or recognition or all of these things. And when you do that, what you are doing, what's implied is how diminished people are. Right. That they come after all of those things. And this is a challenge that you are more important than all of those things. But so is every person you see, and especially when you see people that are suffering.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Tim Tebow]

And today there are so many people that are suffering. And how could we know the worth that God has put on humanity and not do something? Especially when we know there's something suffering.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So bring, bring it down. For the person who's the truck driver or the single mom who's balancing two kids listening to the Ramsey show, trying to figure out a pair debts off, what is the thing they can do in their community? Well, it's like we can start foundations and Big stuff. But what's something that a person who is just grinding it out right now.

[Tim Tebow]

In their neighborhood, don't look past, don't look away. Refuse to look away. Refuse to look away on that person that you're, when you, you're pushing your kids in their stroller and you want to ignore them, say hi, say hi. Value them. Value people. If you're the truck driver, how, what's taking place? Well, how many kids are being exploited on that? Right? Be aware of it. Talk to your teams, talk to your supervisors, understand the problems that are taking place and act upon them. And people say, well, what can I do in the macro? Sometimes it's hard to step into some of these fights because they're big, they're very hard, they're very difficult, daunting and overwhelming. But all of us see people almost on a daily basis. Value them, love them, show them the worth. Because how do we know their worth? Well, it starts in Genesis that they're made in God's image, but then is brought full circle when Jesus came and died on the cross for them. And how do we know the value and worth of somebody? By what someone is willing to pay for them. And Jesus Christ, who has infinite value and worth, was willing to give his life in exchange for you and me and every person we ever see. That's how we should see them. And right now, we see them through faulty lenses.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look again.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds credit union studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, Ph.D. in counseling, is my coach host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Kim is in South Dakota. Hi Kim, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm great. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay, so we live debt free, had purchased to use cars. We followed your program since we had our daughter 20 something years ago and has lived that way but ran into a of lot Little snaggle when we were part of a natural disaster. And we had purchased homeowners insurance with State Farm and had a really high deductible because our opinion was we had enough money saved that if something happened, we would pay for it ourselves and not pay a huge premium. So that's how we lived our lives. We don't go on vacations. We have one child who was in college and we were paying for that with cash. She's pre med, so she has to go to school for that. And so that's kind of how we lived our lives until the storm came. But the storm made our house unlivable. And so we had to go into a hotel for two and a half years and the insurance company did not pay us like they said they would. And so we ran up thousands and thousands of credit card debt, dollars in debt to pay for food, housing, all of that stuff. And unfortunately we tried to resolve this with them and couldn't. So we have an attorney who's filing suit against them to try to get our money back. But in the meantime, we're trying to dog paddle our way out of this. And at the same exact time our child had to have open heart surgery. We had to take her to California, to Stanford. And we spend a lot of time, which I have no control over these bills at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester. So I never know how to budget because I've got hotel bills unexpected when they say you have to come to Mayo and you have to pay for those things. You have to pay for food when you're Mayo Gas. And so it's very difficult to budget. So I just wanted to know if there's something I'm missing because sometimes you're too close to it to speak. What's the best way to manage this? Because I don't feel like I have control like we used to have. And I just wanted some ideas.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I'm missing. So for 20 years you were completely debt free and you didn't have any money?

[Caller]

Well, we did have money, but we used a lot of that to do repair front. We became the bank of State Farm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I know, but how much, how much money did you have?

[Caller]

We had a. I'm gonna say saved up and not used for college, cash on hand. Because we just bought this house. Probably about $100,000 that we had saved up.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you. Why did it take two and a half years? And why were you not buying your own food while working?

[Caller]

Well, we couldn't pay in the hotel. You can't you can buy food, but you can't cook if there's no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, if it's going to take two and a half years, why don't you go rent something?

[Caller]

We tried. There wasn't anything available that met the physical needs that we had. We had moved our neighbor into our home who was 90 years old for end of life care, and we couldn't have stairs and there were just requirements that we had that they could not meet. So we ended up in a hotel. And you had to pay for laundry, you had to pay for meals sometimes a day.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, State Farm screwed you, but so did those decisions.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That you quadrupled or five extra cost. And it doesn't take two and a half years to rebuild a house.

[Caller]

Oh, it's not even done now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, I mean, why. Okay, so I built an entire House in 11 months. Why can you not build a house?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I. I've got family members that just lost their house in Texas and last night was their first night back. But it was. It's been what, four months, five months? Like. Yeah, two and a half years. Tell me about that. Like, it seems like they could have knocked the whole house down.

[Caller]

It was a natural disaster. It was a natural disaster. So there were lots of building going on, projects going on. So there weren't a lot of contractors available. It was also during the time where you had high gas prices and stuff and contractors didn't want to come out to look at the house. It wasn't something that they wanted to do because there was so much work. There was a lot of contributing factors. Also the fact that State Farm was not approving things. You kept having to wait. They would make us do another estimate and another estimate, another estimate.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you stayed in the ditch rather than making a decision to do something completely different for two and a half years. So that's what put you here. My goodness. And now the health. Your daughter that's studying to be a doctor. Doctor has had open heart surgery, correct? So she's not studying to be a doctor right now. She's recovering, right?

[Caller]

No, they're. The school's letting her stay in school and she's trying to do stuff, you know, online and submit things, sometimes late.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you not. Did she have health insurance?

[Caller]

She has our health insurance, my husband's health insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does it not cover the surgeries and the other stuff?

[Caller]

It covers surgeries, but it doesn't cover any of. Any of the other things associated with it like hotel bills and gas and food. When we go To Mayo or when we had to go to Stanford. We were in Stanford for seven months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So what is your household?

[Caller]

188.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can't buy a hotel bill and go to Stanford if you make 188,000.

[Caller]

Well, again, I mean, we did and you know, put things on credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why, you know, you make 188,000?

[Caller]

Because we had a mortgage payment and we had college tuition and we had other things that we were paying. I mean, it wasn't. And we were paying, you know, for the house while we were in the hotel. I mean there was a lot of them. I could sit here and go over a single bill and you go, oh, that makes sense. But we're not extravagant. I mean, we're not give you an idea. Like we canceled our trash service and gather up our own trash and take the dump ourselves.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but hold on.

[Caller]

Sprinklers.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, we're not trying to pick those apart. I think if I back all the way out of this thing, I think the part for, for every Emotional health Challenge there is this distance from this scary, terrifying line called reality. And if you on my show, I say this probably three times an episode, which is the life you had is over and you got a new it now. And what most people try to do is keep parts or the whole of their old life going while navigating this new reality. And so for instance, you were in a position when you were debt free and had a hundred grand in the, in the bank and y' all made $200,000 a year to fully fund your kids college. That's a dream you'll have. It's a priority for you. If you can't afford it though, you can't afford it. And that's a hard conversation with your kid. That's what I'm, that's what I'm talking about.

[Dave Ramsey]

About. Yeah. And you know, the third month, not the third year. Right. I sue State Farm and I move out of a hotel the third month. And if I have to pay for nursing home for the 92 year old neighbor as to just to make me feel good about that, I will. Or maybe not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or go to my church and say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maybe I can't do this. I thought I could help this guy and I can't help this guy anymore. I'm not in a position because only the strong can help the weak. And right now our knees are broken and we can't do anything. And so no, we can't pay for med school. And no, I'm not living in a Hotel. And no, I'm not putting out requirements for a 92 year old neighbor that caused me to go completely broke and lose everything I owned because I stayed in a hotel two and a half years longer than I should have. So I think you got to start putting some limitations on some of these things that you keep declaring as absolutes in this conversation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The absolute is we gotta have a place to, to live and we got to keep our daughters like, healthy. And outside of that, I think everything's got to be back on the table.

[Dave Ramsey]

188,000 will do those things. Yeah. Without credit card debt and without parsing it out. And parsing it out and parsing it out. You know, so, and you know, just if, if it's any consolation to you at all, State Farm has a horrible reputation on claims. You're not the only one. So sue their butt. But I'm not going to wait around on them to fix my life either. How many times do you end up with too much month at the end of the money? Even if you can cover the bills, there's nothing left over. You work your butt off and you still feel brave, broke. That's normal for most people. But you do not have to live that way. You can completely transform your money and your life with every dollar. Our world class budgeting app is better than ever now. Every dollar coaches you to find extra margin every month so you can make real progress and change your family tree. The Average person finds $3015 in just the first, first 15 minutes. That's extra money you could use to beat debt, to build wealth, to finally breathe again. Don't settle for living normal with money. Start every dollar for free by downloading the app. John. I came away from that last call feeling like I was too tough on her because she's been through a lot, bless her heart and. But I, there's some kind of a thing that I guess you can guide us through from a counseling perspective. I could do it almost from a business acumen perspective. But when tragedy occurs, not if in your life it's going to have financial implications. Correct. How do you. Because I meet people and she had done some of this. I mean, bless her heart, she'd been through hell. It's awful. Okay. And so I should have been probably more sympathetic, but there's something that happens and I did it. I think, I think I did it during bankruptcy. It gives us permission to be illogical in setting boundaries for ourselves. You know, it's like, okay, this has happened and so now all the rules don't count. Does that mean you know what I'm saying?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Totally.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like a human nature thing. I can think of times I've done it too. So it's not just poor Kim with what the hell they've been through.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've done it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But there's also, how can we coach folks that are listening to say, okay, well what should you do when tragedy occurs? Somehow you've got to put, you've got to truncate the, you got to cut off the damage, not expand the damage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, the only, the only path. And I've, I've wrestled with this for a couple of decades sitting with somebody whose life was going one way and it was often started with my college students. Like they would be having a plan to go do a thing and then mom would get cancer and they want to continue their degree in, you know, molecular biology. But also, and it's, it always came back to hey, hey, hey, everything in your life is different now. And we have to start here and. But I don't want to. You're right. It's not fair. You're right. This shouldn't happen. You're right. And yet here we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the old phrase is you have a new normal.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have a new normal. And so the only thing I've seen people do to be successful in my own life and folks I've sat with is this word that we have an allergy to in our society, which is grief. You have to spend some time just mourning. This thing is over now. And now I have to move forward. I wanted to pay for my kids college, but now my husband had a stroke and we've got to pay hospital bills and I got to sit down with my sophomore in college and say I, this blows up your whole life and I'm so sorry, but here's reality.

[Dave Ramsey]

And instead I wanted to take care of my 92 year old neighbor.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wanted to. What a noble, amazing thing. And suddenly I, I don't have any money. I wanted, I kept thinking, I don't have a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't have a house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. I kept thinking that in, in two more months they're going to get this thing rolling again. And then two more months, after four months, three months, six months, I have to say there's nobody coming. And we are racking up bill after bill at this hotel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure as credit State farm income.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have to do something different.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I was telling you off air, I had a family member that lost their house in the Texas floods. They lived in A hunting trail trailer for months because that's all they had. Not cause they're noble or tough or anything. It's. It's all we had. Or the alternative is I'm gonna, I have to put myself in jeopardy in my older age and run up a whole bunch of debts I'm never gonna be able to pay off. And it's that the folks that I see are able to experience tragedy, which we all will. And we talk about resilience, we talk about growing from, or there's a big word, post traumatic growth. Right. Those that I see make that move move are the ones who can sit in that exhale grief and say, everything's different now. What's my next right move? And if you can do that, there's, it's a. It's an amazing trajectory. If you don't, you drag that past and it, it's this weird. I have permission to just go buy that meal. I have permission just to stay in this place for two and a half years. I have permission to keep doing the awesome work I was doing with my elderly neighbor. Even though reality seems says you can't afford it. It's not going to happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we're using her as an example. We're not picking on her. It's all of us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I wouldn't wish what she's experienced on anybody.

[Dave Ramsey]

I do want to go back and lighten that up a little bit. But the lesson, because one of the reasons you should listen to the show is the lessons. Not just the entertainment value of people's stuff, but you ought to say, okay, what's a lesson I can take away so I don't end up there? Well, the lesson is you learn limit the, the financial impact of the tragedy by restarting your life with a new definition quickly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

As quickly as you can get there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And sometimes you don't feel your way into that. You start acting your way into that. The feelings will come later, up and down like a roller coaster. But I'm going to make the next right move is. Which is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I'll give you an example. Here's what I do all the time for 30 years. We're getting a divorce and the lady calls and says, I make 30,000, he makes 100,000. And I want to keep the house for the kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't want to disrupt their life anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want to disrupt the kids life. A thousand times out of a thousand I say, honey, you got to sell the house because the life you used to have is no more. You no longer have $130,000 income. You have a $30,000 income and you can't afford this house. The kids are already disrupted.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Everything's disrupted.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's called divorce. And so they're restarting. The best thing you can do for them is to restart them on solid ground, not a sinking ship. And you trying to keep this house as a sinking ship. So restart, reset your vision of your life. And that's a little miniature one off version of what we're talking about.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or we talked. We talked to folks all the time who I was making $120,000. My company did layoffs and now I'm in month nine with no income. And they'll spin up a lot of activity. I've got on LinkedIn and sent out 10,000 resumes via. No one's getting back to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I think, yeah, when you're going.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Back to that reality.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. So when you are restarting, one of the things you have to do is take inventory of what is still there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What is still here.

[Dave Ramsey]

The income. This is the income that I do have. And this is. I have. You know, it's almost like count your blessings. Yeah. Okay. Here's what I do have to work with as opposed to what I used to have to work with. And what I do have is a situation in Texas where, where everybody got wiped out at once in that area. So finding a contractor is dead. Gum. Near impossible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I don't have an overabundance of contractors to work with. Right. Okay. I don't have that. And so what do I have? I got a hunting trailer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I got an old hunting trailer with an air conditioner. I'm going to plug it in and we're going to make a go of.

[Dave Ramsey]

It until we can get the contractors to show up because everybody else is in line. And I can tell you this, there are. The city of New Orleans was virtually destroyed a couple of decades ago by a hurricane called Katrina. And there are Cajun restaurants all over the United States today from people who left New Orleans because they had to start over. Yeah. And they couldn't start over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was in Houston. So many people came and said, new restaurant, man, we got to start here. Because my home doesn't exist anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

What? My life as I knew it before. I have to restart. And in some cases it's pull up stakes and go to a whole nother area.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. Is that fun? No. Do you lose your family heritage? Yes. Is it. Do you weep? Yes. And this thing, reality Just keeps chugging along. Math doesn't change and it's hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so if you, if you're in the middle of a storm, like poor Kim has gone through multiple storms at once. She had like the perfect storm is awful. The only thing we can tell you is take stock of what you do have, not what you used to have and reset a new vision that fits within those numbers. And the other stuff is you have to sadly say no to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't live in this area anymore. You can't go to the school anymore. I can't take care of this person anymore. I can't do this again. And you're going to have a whole lot of cants. And that's what I mean by truncating. You're going to have to stop being, doing some things that you used to, were able to do in order to create a new life with the new limitations and in the new situation that is healthy and that doesn't follow your own because if you don't, you end up with two decades to clean up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The mess that the tragedy goes on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Indefinitely until you stop.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Until you stop.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Trying to re recreate the old life. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And, and this happens if there's an.

[Dave Ramsey]

Affair, by the way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not, it's not fair. And there's, this happens if you have an affair in your marriage. This happens if you lose a job. It happens to all of us multiple times throughout our lives. The quicker you can exhale sometimes getting out of pen and a piece of paper. What is true mathematically? What's true? What do I have, what am I grateful for? I got a, I got a trailer in the back. I'm gonna have to move in there. And then that's the ash with which you plant the tree. And man, new trees can grow, but you gotta plant them in the soil of reality.

[Dave Ramsey]

Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt and build wealth. And you can too. But you got to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start now. Take the free quiz and get your free step by step action plan. If you've had it with money, stress and are Ready to take control of your money for good? Go to ramseysolutions.com start now in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Ryan and Amber are with us. Hey guys. How are you doing? Great. Welcome. Welcome. Where do y' all live?

[Caller]

Spring grow. Minnesota Southeast. Minnesota.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Welcome to Tennessee. Good to have you. And all the way here to do a debt free scream. How much have you paid off?

[Caller]

180,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool.

[Caller]

32 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

32 months. And your range of income during that? Two and a half years?

[Caller]

Started at 140 and got up to 180.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. What do y' all do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm a construction superintendent for a general.

Contractor and I do ultrasounds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, very cool. Good for y'. All. Very good. So what kind of Debt was the one? 180. There's our house. Look at it. Weird people. Young, weird people. Paid off a house early. I love it. Yep. So what's this house worth?

[Caller]

We're selling right now and be right around 300.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you guys. Way to go. And how much you guys got in your nest eggs already? Your 401ks and stuff?

[Caller]

It's a little over 200 right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so you're about a halfway to a millionaire already. And you're what, 30? How old are you?

[Caller]

28 and 27.

[Dave Ramsey]

There it is. Not even 30.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know if y' all didn't get the memo. You're not allowed to do that anymore. You're not able to do that anymore?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's different to be weird, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, congratulations. How long have y' all been married?

[Caller]

Four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And two and a half of that. You've been tearing into this mortgage?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. Yep. So tell us the story. How'd you get tied into Ramsey?

[Caller]

My first employer had smart dollars, so got tied into that and then followed the baby steps from there. So we originally bought the house and we were working on like side projects in the house as a little fixer upper working on our side projects. And then the spring came around, like a year and a half into buying the house. Amber wanted to do some siding, exterior updates. And I was like. So we had some money set aside for that and I was like, ah, let's just pause on that. Let's pay the house off. So actually it was. What was it for the months that we paid it off? It was 13 months. We paid off 132,000. So we just paused all our projects and then put 132 away and 13 months.

Whoa.

That last year was really intense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very intense. Okay. We want. I want to get to these projects. So we're knocking this puppy out. Y. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Very cool.

[Caller]

Yeah. I wasn't on board at first entirely. I really want to do that side. But there's a point where it was projects that we needed to have done and projects that we didn't need to have done. And when we sat down and Ryan's like, this is how much we're spending on interest, it's like, oh, my gosh. It's just insane. Eye opening over the life of the loan, how much you would pay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Y' all don't realize it yet because you've been married four years, but most couples get to the. Oh, I didn't know we could get through this. After a major crisis and y' all decided early on, let's tackle a big, monumental thing that nobody else has done doing together. Y' all don't know this yet, but y' all have proven to yourselves there's not a thing that the two of us can't lock arms and. And. And tackle together over the course of your entire marriage together. It's so. I'm. I'm going to smile all day, cuz. This is awesome. This is fantastic, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There's so many good things that have happened to you, what you've become while you're doing this. So proud of you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have y' all got the sighting done since y' all paid it off?

[Caller]

No, that's a next spring. First, I upgraded my car. I was driving an 08 Impala. It had, what, 210,000 miles on it? That thing was so loud. It was very embarrassing. But you learned not to care what people think.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. So, yeah. You needed a car.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm glad you did that. So first goal was that then we'll do the siding next spring. And so we just start laying out. Now that we don't have payment in the world, we start laying out goals and knocking down goals. Right, Right. Travel, car, siding, whatever it is. Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Amber, let me ask you this, okay. I've had projects that start burning a hole every time I pull in the driveway. That's all I see. I don't see the house. I don't see my awesome wife, kids. I just see that. But when you grind out another goal, I stop seeing it all the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does that make. Has it become less a bur in your soul?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's like, it's worth it. It's like the house is paid for now. And I can wait a year on sighting. It's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, very good. Way to go, you guys. All right. What do you tell people that are 25 years old and they want to pay off their house? It can't be done. America is dead. The capitalism is killing everyone. It's a systemic problem. We're all stuck. Oh, wait a minute. Hold my beer. Ryan and Amber just paid off their house at 28 years old. What do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is. Is.

[Caller]

I would say, by far the biggest key is to just forget what other people think about you. It's your own money. You're working hard for it. Do live your own life. Live your own goals. I think we were listening to the podcast a couple weeks back, and Jade said it best. She said, biggest superpower you can have with money is not caring what other people think. And that's so true.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you did have some other people that had some thoughts, huh? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

You definitely get weird looks, that's for sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, because people know how that y' all aren't starving, right? They know y' all are doing well, and then you're. They can hear your car coming nine miles away, and they're like, hey, you know, you can get a new car.

[Caller]

And it's hard. I mean, the temptation is definitely hard, but, I mean, at the end of the day, it's worth it, because when.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You'Re making that kind of money, you can literally, on the way home, pull into a dealership and go home with a new car that day.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

With just a signature.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And to just go home and it call. It's so cool, man. Who taught you both? Because this is a. And again, I'm kind of hijacking this call, this. This conversation. Who taught y' all to sit down together and to say, I want this? And the other person say, well, I want this. And we're going to talk about this not as enemies, but as, okay, we both want different things, but we're going to come to some sort of. Of solution that had to have been modeled somewhere for you, or y' all just. Are y' all even weirder than paid off house people? Where'd y' all get that from? Did one of your. Did your parents model that for you?

[Caller]

My parents definitely did for me. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I'd say our parents were big models and that.

And somebody once told me, it's not you and him. It's not you versus him in a problem. It's you and him versus the problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tada, Tada. There it is. Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but people told me a lot of stuff when I was 24. I didn't listen to them. Man, that's so amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good. That's very good. Well done, you guys. All right, so the secret is not caring what other people think. That.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then that frees you up to just do what you think and decide who gets a vote. And if it's not one of us, nobody else gets a vote. So who was cheering you on?

[Caller]

Lots of friends, co workers, parents, of course. Our biggest thing is probably just how competitive we are, though, because we. Dave, not to, like, make you as an insult, but we would call each other Davish if one of us started slacking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah, you're an ish. Like a Dr. Seuss character. You're an ish. Don't be an ish. It's just a wish. Yeah, Yeah, I like it. That's good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only ones, man, that's mean.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dave is an insult. So you're a good company.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good. I like it. I like it. I'll take it. My name gets used a lot of other ways.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was gonna say, y' all aren't the only ones that use Dave as.

[Dave Ramsey]

An insult, so that's at least a positive methodology. I'll go with that. Yeah. Good job, you guys. Very, very, very good job. So when your mom and dad actually realize you're actually doing this, what did their face look? I mean, like, mom, we just wrote the last check. We're done.

[Caller]

So my dad, I would meet him every week for lunch, and I'd always tell him, like, where we're at, and he'd be like, oh, I'm so proud of you. You like, that was huge just to have that reinforcement all the time. But my parents actually paid their house off in four years, so I was kind of like, we gotta beat that for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are competitive, dad. Yeah, I like that. Okay, good gosh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I just say this to all the dads out there?

[Dave Ramsey]

How proud is he of that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You want to have an amazing daughter that grows up into an amazing woman, have lunch with her every week, and never let her leave the table without you looking her in the eyes and saying, you're proud. I'm proud of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's huge.

[Dave Ramsey]

That right there, that's a superpower.

[Caller]

That's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, your dad gave you everything. And you gotta. Man, you're gonna have to get pants to go all the way to the floor now, dude, because you got yourself a rock star you're married to. It's amazing. It's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, you guys. I'm proud of y'. All. We're proud of you too. Just like your dad is. Ryan and amber from Minnesota. 180,000 paid off in 32 months, house and everything. They're not even 30 and they're already halfway to being baby steps millionaires. They'll be there in about 20 minutes at this rate. Making 140 up to 180. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Caller]

3, 3, 2, 1.

We're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah, baby. That's how it's done.

[Caller]

SA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, Matthew 10:14. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off of your feet. Thomas Sowell said, you can't stop people from saying bad things about you. All you can do is make them liars. That's pretty good. As you well know by now, the Fed has dropped rates and mortgage rates have followed slightly. They dropped them slightly and mortgage rates have fallen a little bit. 5.71% right now for a 15 year fixed. If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell. Buying or selling an affordable home you love is possible when you work with a Ramsey trusted real estate agent. These pros are hand picked to guide you through the market and keep your financial goals top of mind. Find a trusted local pro for free@ramsey solutions.com agents or click the link in the show notes. Lane's in Ohio. Hi Lane. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So me and my fiance, we're 21 and 22, so let's live with our parents. We're looking to move out probably in May when she graduates college and. And we don't really know if we should buy a car for her first or wait until we buy a house. But I don't know if we buy a car. If we have 20% down for a.

[Dave Ramsey]

House, you can wait on the house. You need to get a car first. It's okay to rent an apartment for a year and you guys save up some money. And if you use part of the money you've saved to buy her a car for cash, then you need to replenish that for your down payment fund to be full again. If that takes a year and you rent a little apartment for a year, that is not going to set you back in your life, you're going to be fine.

[Caller]

Okay? Do you do you. Should we put 20% down on a house or should we just do an FHA one?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, FHA has mip, which is much like pmi. PMI is Private Mortgage Insurance. Mortgage Insurance Premium is what MIP stands for. And FHA is a much more expensive loan and all the fees and the interest rates than a conventional loan. So if you have the ability to put together 20% on your first home, you're better off to do a conventional loan than an FHA loan. But you don't have to worry about that right now for about almost two years from right now because she's graduating in May. You're getting married then, sounds like. And then we're gonna get her a car and then we're gonna rent for a year. And that puts you almost two years from now. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So the thing you need right now is one of the fruits of the spirit, a healthy dose of patience, man. You want to give her the world. You want to give her everything, and I love that. But slow down. Yeah, just gonna be good, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Back it. Back it off. Slow your roll. Nikki's in California. Hey, Nikki, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, John. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I'm calling because my husband and I are in a little over $300,000 worth of debt. About 120 of it is IRS debt and my fault. But I know you say do whatever you need to do to break away from the irs. They sent notices for liens and levies and all that, so we set up a payment plan. But I am wondering how desperately needs to get in this situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very. What. What's your household income?

[Caller]

350,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Why, pray tell, do you owe the IRS 120 then?

[Caller]

Well, okay, so I was previously divorced, and at that time, I'm a nurse now. I make money now, but at that time, I was not. I had three kids. I literally just put my head down and worked and worked and worked just to keep the roof over our head. I did not file taxes probably for about four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and now you've gone back, you've gotten remarried, and now you've gone and filed?

[Caller]

Yes, I went and filed. And then our income together is just way too much. So obviously we owed that first year, so. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. And what's the rest of the $300,000 in debt?

[Caller]

So we've got about 100 in student loans, and the rest of it is credit cards and personal loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so you've got $80,000 in credit card Debt?

[Caller]

Yep, about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long y' all been married?

[Caller]

We just got married in 23. June of 2023.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And who brought the credit card debt?

[Caller]

Well, so, I mean, we both had some. I had.

[Dave Ramsey]

Has it continued to grow after you got married?

[Caller]

No, we've been. We've been paying it down since. So we've gotten rid of several.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so you. Here's where we are today. Today you make 350,000. You got $300,000 in debt. And what part of California do you live in? Absolutely. You do. Okay. All right. And how much is your house payment?

[Caller]

5,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your house worth?

[Caller]

About 780. And we just bought it in 23. So we bought it for 750.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's probably worth more than 7, 8 city then, if you bought it in 23. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so let's go with 900. And what do you owe on the house?

[Caller]

About 6, 6, 20 maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So you guys are living right on the edge on everything. Everything's got a payment on it. Everything's locked down. We make 350,000 and we feel broke?

[Caller]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And it's not a super expensive house for San Francisco. I mean, that's a cheap house, really, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What do you do for a living? You're a nurse. What's he do?

[Caller]

He's a manager.

[Dave Ramsey]

Manager. Okay. All right, well, what I'm going to do is buckle down and live on nothing. Pretend like I am broke, because you are. And I'm going to cut up all the credit cards. We're not going to use them anymore. We're going to do a written budget every month. You and your husband, you don't make 350,000. You make 50,000, and you need to pay off 300 worth of debt or you make 100,000 and you're going to pay off $250,000 worth of debt and be debt free in about two years, starting with the blessed IRS. And then work your way through a debt snowball on the other stuff after you get rid of the irs. But you guys need to go pay them like your hair's on fire and get them out of your life. Because the penalties and the interest that they're charging you are the worst on the planet. And they have almost unlimited power to come and mess with your life. Even when you're on a payment plan. They might make a clerical error and put a lien on your house even though you're on a payment plan. They can, if they want to. And so what I want you to do is get them out of your life like your life depended on it. So I think what's happened is as you guys are living a bay lifestyle and you're eating up your 300 grand and you're not making much progress on this debt, and I want you to live a lifestyle as if you lived somewhere else and didn't have a life. Because you don't. You're broke. Act like it and attack this debt with a vengeance.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And I hear in your story, Nikki, and even in your voice that fear of that single mom who has just put her head down and tried to keep a roof over the head of her, of her babies during a really chaotic time. It would be easy to say you shouldn't have spent all that, yada, yada. I just want to tell you I'm proud of you for getting through that four years. And it's easy to think, I got my degree, I'm a nurse, I married a guy who makes a good income together. We have a good income. And to take your foot off the gas, and I want you to let that woman who's been grinding it out finally be free. And that means you got two years of hitting the gas. And I'm telling you, on the other side of this, with nothing but a house payment, making $350,000, you are going to finally feel that peace you've been craving. Craving for so many years. But there's no other way than through this thing. So just get through it as fast as you possibly can. No restaurants, no fancy cars, and everyone's going to be like, I thought you were. Yep. As for me and my house, we will not be owned by anybody. And the one way, I'll say it again, there's only one way through it. Only one way. And that's through it. Just get through it as fast as you possibly can.

[Dave Ramsey]

That puts us how are the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace. Christ Jesus sat.