You Can’t Borrow Your Way to Freedom

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "You Can’t Borrow Your Way to Freedom"

Release Date: April 21, 2025
Host/Author: Ramsey Network
Description: The Ramsey Show empowers listeners to build wealth and take control of their financial lives, regardless of past financial mistakes. Hosts Dave Ramsey, George Camel, and Rachel Cruz provide expert advice to tackle the top money problems faced by their audience.

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Introduction

The episode begins with George Camel and Rachel Cruz welcoming callers seeking financial advice. The primary focus centers on strategies to eliminate debt, optimize income, and make informed financial decisions to achieve financial freedom.

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Caller Success Story: Amanda from Tampa, Florida [00:54–07:20]

Situation:
Amanda is burdened with a hefty car payment of $900/month on a 2020 BMW, owing $34,000. The car’s market value is approximately $25,000, with a potential $2,000 from warranties if sold to the dealer. She has $10,000 in savings and an additional beater car.

Challenges:

• High monthly car payments impacting overall finances.
• Significant credit card debt of $14,000.
• Reduced household income from $8,000 to $5,000/month due to Amanda switching careers to a lower-paying job as a school teacher.
• Husband Ray’s contracting work is unstable amid high-interest rates affecting home building.

Advice Provided:

1. Eliminate the High-Payment Car:

   • John DeLoney: "I would take 4,000 out of your savings to pay off the remaining debt and buy a $5,000 car." [02:35]
   • Suggests selling the BMW privately to achieve a higher repayment value, potentially minimizing dipping into savings.

2. Aggressive Debt Reduction:

   • Allocate freed-up $900/month from the car payment to credit card debt.
   • George Camel: "Use nine of the ten to knock down your credit card debt and then you're going to be debt-free in a few months." [03:57]

3. Increase Household Income:

   • Encourage Ray to seek additional contracting gigs or side hustles, leveraging the high demand for quality contractors.
   • George Camel: "Your husband can find side jobs that pay between $50 to $100 an hour." [06:02]

Outcome: Amanda is advised to prioritize selling the high-payment car to free up finances, aggressively tackle credit card debt, and explore additional income sources to stabilize and improve their financial situation.

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Financial Guidance for Side Hustlers: Jessica from Milwaukee [11:16–14:30]

Situation:
Jessica and her husband started Financial Peace University a few weeks ago. As a one-income family, Jessica picked up a side gig driving for DoorDash, transitioning to a 1099 employee.

Challenges:

• Understanding how to budget with variable income and no taxes withheld.
• Ensuring sufficient funds for tax obligations to avoid year-end surprises.

Advice Provided:

1. Savings Allocation for Taxes:

   • George Camel: "Force yourself to put a third of whatever you make into a savings account." [12:04]

2. Quarterly Estimated Tax Payments:

   • Make regular estimated payments to the IRS to cover tax liabilities.
   • George Camel: "Make quarterly estimated payments on the IRS website." [12:25]

3. Tax Planning Integration:

   • Maintain a separate savings pool to manage tax payments effectively alongside full-time income.
   • George Camel: "She's still doing great with the savings and side income." [12:25]

Outcome: Jessica is guided to allocate a portion of her side hustle earnings to a dedicated savings account for taxes and to make quarterly payments, ensuring she remains financially prepared for tax season without jeopardizing her debt repayment progress.

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Debt Free Transformation: Ben and Jennifer from Cincinnati, Ohio [67:26–75:00]

Situation:
Ben and Jennifer successfully paid off their mortgage of $203,000 in 52 months while increasing their household income from $160,000 to $230,000 annually.

Challenges:

• Balancing multiple income streams and disciplined budgeting.
• Maintaining lifestyle changes to prioritize debt elimination.

Strategy Implemented:

1. Focused Debt Repayment:

   • Consistently paid extra towards the principal to accelerate debt elimination.
   • John DeLoney: "If we didn’t miss a month on extra payments, we could pay off our debt in just over four years." [67:35]

2. Income Optimization:

   • Ben transitioned to higher-paying roles and diversified income through commissions.
   • Utilized side hustles like wedding photography to boost earnings.

3. Lifestyle Adjustments:

   • Adopted cost-saving measures such as limiting discretionary spending.
   • Emphasized experiences over material purchases to stay motivated.

Outcome: Ben and Jennifer achieved complete mortgage freedom in just over four years, underscoring the effectiveness of disciplined budgeting, consistent extra payments, and strategic income enhancement in attaining financial independence.

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Audience Questions and Expert Answers

Michael from North Carolina [33:59–35:18]

Question:
Is it wise to open a 0% interest credit card to handle a $4,500 chimney repair, intending to pay it off before interest kicks in? His partner is uncomfortable using their emergency fund designed only for job loss.

Advice Provided:

• George Camel: "You're using the wrong tool for the job. Use your emergency fund, not a credit card." [34:37]
• Emphasizes the importance of maintaining financial discipline and avoiding debt accumulation.
• Recommends using the existing emergency fund for necessary repairs and establishing a sinking fund for future maintenance.

Conclusion: Avoid using credit cards for planned expenses; instead, utilize emergency savings to cover necessary repairs, ensuring financial stability without accumulating unnecessary debt.

Rachel from Milwaukee – Medical Debt and Bankruptcy [14:29–20:02]

Situation:
Rachel is overwhelmed with $250,000 in debt, including $61,000 in medical debt. She has received a summons for medical debt and is contemplating bankruptcy, seeking alternative solutions.

Challenges:

• Diverse debt portfolio including medical, credit cards, car loans, personal loans, and student loans.
• Limited savings of $1,200 and a reduced household income.

Advice Provided:

1. Debt Prioritization and Negotiation:

   • John DeLoney: "Call creditors to negotiate settlements or payment plans." [16:20]
   • Focus on negotiating lower settlements for medical and credit card debts.

2. Income Enhancement:

   • Encourage finding additional income sources or optimizing current earnings to manage debt payments.
   • George Camel: "Secure your four walls first and then allocate funds towards debt reduction." [16:10]

3. Professional Assistance:

   • George Camel: "Connect with a Ramsey preferred financial coach for personalized guidance." [19:16]

Outcome: Rachel is advised to negotiate with creditors for better repayment terms, seek additional income avenues, and consult a financial coach to navigate debt management without resorting to bankruptcy.

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Advice and Tools for Financial Management

1. EveryDollar Budgeting App Promotion:

   • Hosts emphasize the importance of budgeting, recommending the EveryDollar app for tracking income and expenses effectively.
   • George Camel: "Download EveryDollar to start budgeting for free today." [00:00]

2. Financial Peace University Encouragement:

   • Encourages listeners to enroll in Financial Peace University for structured financial education.
   • John DeLoney: "Joining Financial Peace University can transform your financial habits." [11:15]

3. Side Hustle Opportunities:

   • Discussion on identifying and leveraging side hustles to increase income.
   • George Camel: "Explore side hustles that align with your skills to boost your income." [77:54]

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Closing and Community Celebrations [67:08–75:00]

The episode wraps up with celebratory stories of listeners who have achieved debt freedom, highlighting their disciplined approaches and the positive impact on their lives. Ben and Jennifer from Cincinnati showcase the success attainable through commitment to the Ramsey principles, inspiring others to pursue similar financial transformations.

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Notable Quotes

• John DeLoney on Eliminating Bad Debt:
  "If you could sell exactly what you owe, get as much top dollar for it so that you're not having to dip into savings." [03:57]

• George Camel on Increased Income Through Side Hustles:
  "Your husband can find side jobs that pay between $50 to $100 an hour." [06:02]

• Rachel Cruz on Managing 1099 Income:
  "Force yourself to put a third of whatever you make into a savings account." [12:04]

• Ben from Cincinnati Celebrating Debt Freedom:
  "We could finally buy the things we want and enjoy more experiences." [67:35]

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, hosts Dave Ramsey, George Camel, and Rachel Cruz provide actionable advice for listeners struggling with various forms of debt. Through real-life caller scenarios, they emphasize the importance of eliminating high-interest debts, optimizing income through side hustles, disciplined budgeting using tools like the EveryDollar app, and seeking professional financial coaching when necessary. Success stories from listeners like Ben and Jennifer serve as motivational examples of achieving financial freedom through dedication and adherence to proven financial principles.

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Note: For ongoing financial advice and to participate in live discussions, listeners are encouraged to visit www.ramseysolutions.com or call 888.825.5225 on weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys, this is Dave Ramsey from the Ramsey show podcast. If you're sick of money, stress and tired of living paycheck to paycheck, we're here to help. Check out our latest episode, streaming now on Amazon Music, brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Camel]

From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Ramsay show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by number one best selling author Rachel Cruz, who's also my co host on Smart Money Happy Hour, another Sean Ramsey Network. And we're taking your calls at Triple 882-55-5225. Amanda's gonna kick us off in Tampa, Florida. Amanda, welcome to the show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, good afternoon.

[George Camel]

Good afternoon to you. How can we help today?

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so I have one of them huge car payments. It's about 900amonth. I owe 34,000 on is a 20, 22 BMW. So my question is it's only valued at 34,000. The auto trader value is 25,000. I would get about 2,000 back in warranty warranties if I sold it back to the BMW dealer. I have $10,000 in my savings account. So my question is, should I get rid of the car because it's kind of hurting us financially paying a car payment that high.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, 900 bucks, that'd be nice to have, right, versus it going to a car payment.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so you said it's valued at. I think you said it's valued at 34,000, but then you looked on Auto Trader and it's at 25,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, so I owed 34,000.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I gotcha.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, sorry. I owe 34. It's valued at 25.

[George Camel]

Is that, have you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay. You don't want trade in though. You want like a private party value. You can check on Kelley Blue Book for that. That's going to be much higher and that might get you closer to where you're not underwater on this thing.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. So let's say it gives you like 5,000 more just for the fun of it. Okay. So that means we'll just say 30,000. You owe 34. So yeah, I would take 4,000 out of your savings so that it's, it's, you know, you can like after you sell it. Right. That you can pay off the remaining of the debt, get the title to the new people and you're done free and clear. And then just, I mean, I would just go buy like a $5,000 car. Yeah.

[George Camel]

The rest of your savings. Leave a thousand bucks in there.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. I actually have an extra car like my luxury car. So I do have a beater.

[John DeLoney]

Well, there you go, Amanda. God bless America.

[George Camel]

Our cars have cars in America.

[John DeLoney]

Well then there you go. Well, so now you don't have to. Yeah. So you don't have to. You don't have to spend it. And you guys have 10 grand. What other debt do you have?

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so I'm pretty. The past month, like I've canceled, like, I've changed phone services. I got rid of the Internet, I got rid of streaming.

[John DeLoney]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruz]

I changed my homeowners insurance. My, I paid my car insurance for six months. So I have 190 in a home. And it's. My home is worth about 650.

[John DeLoney]

Nice.

[Rachel Cruz]

And then I do have. What I'm trying to work on is my 14,000 and credit card debt.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, perfect. Well, what's crazy about this, you know, all of this math that you have. Yeah. You'll only have $5,000 of credit card debt left because you'll put 9 of your savings towards it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

And yeah, you'll be, you'll be doing great. That's right. You will have to put. Yeah, you may have to put 4,000.

[George Camel]

But if you could sell exactly what you owe, if you check Kelly blue book and you can get private party value, 34 grand, I would do that. Get as much as you can get, top dollar for it so that you're not having to dip into savings.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And then use nine of the 10 to knock down your credit card debt and then you're going to be debt free in a few months. What's your household income?

[Rachel Cruz]

So I just took a lower paying job as a school teacher. So our household income now is 5,000.

[John DeLoney]

That's not a month.

[Rachel Cruz]

It used to be about. Yes, it used to be eight and now it's five.

[John DeLoney]

And that's. Is that after taxes and everything?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Okay.

[John DeLoney]

That's what you're bringing up.

[George Camel]

And is this two of you? Is there another person involved here?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, and what are they doing for work?

[Rachel Cruz]

My husband's a contractor, but as of right now, with the changing, the changing market, he may have to actually look for more work.

[George Camel]

There's not enough contract to work for him.

[Rachel Cruz]

No. Due to interest rates. He builds homes for a living. So people aren't building homes right now with the interest rates being so high in our area.

[George Camel]

Are there other contracting gigs he could do? Does he work for a builder?

[Rachel Cruz]

Actually right now he's working for a small mom and pop builder and his trailer park this afternoon doing like carpentry work. So. So he has been trying to find other little side hustles.

[George Camel]

I just feel like contractors are in high demand. You can't find enough of them that do quality work and show up on time and charge a reasonable rate. And so he should be able to find stuff outside of the new build world to keep him plenty busy to get this income up because he should be making 5k a month on his own.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Without your salary, are you guys able to live on the 5K, Amanda?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, because I've cut. Like I said, I've cut so much like the car wash and.

[John DeLoney]

Well, for him, I mean, he needs to be working 40 hours somewhere to be bringing him money for you guys to pay off this debt and get a good emergency fund in place. So even if it's not contracting, he doesn't need to be just sitting and waiting on jobs. I mean, go do something. You know what I mean?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, he's listening, so you tell him.

[George Camel]

Oh, good. Okay. He's pretty handy, right?

[John DeLoney]

What's his name?

[Rachel Cruz]

Ray.

[John DeLoney]

Hey, Ray.

[George Camel]

Ray. Listen, I pay handyman really good money. I'm talking they can charge now anywhere from 50 to 100 bucks an hour.

[John DeLoney]

And George doesn't know how to do anything. And I don't do George's. In America, they don't know how to fix anything.

[George Camel]

The only squats I'm doing are diddly. And so he can get out there in your neighborhood, get in the Facebook page and just say, hey, I'm doing handyman work. My rate is 75 an hour, and that's equivalent to 150 grand a year if he's doing that full time.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so I believe in Ray. I think he needs a little pep in his step. And now's the time to really put your foot on the gas, clean up the debt, get a fully funded emergency fund. Then we have the luxury to choose what kind of jobs we take. But right now we need money coming in.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And getting rid of this car, Amanda's gonna free you guys up a lot. I mean, $900, that's a fourth of your take. Home pay is going on a car payment.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's the same as my home home mortgage. So.

[John DeLoney]

What a. What an American story. George pay as much for car payments as we do our mortgage payment. Well, Amanda, well, I'm glad you called. I hope that helps just to kind of get this, this ball moving for you guys. And again, any extra Income is going to help, but you guys are doing well. I mean, the car's got to get. Got to get out of here. And then $900 is freed up to put on the debt. And then if Ray is the best handyman in town, he's been making good money.

[George Camel]

I just feel like it's an untapped market.

[John DeLoney]

No, it is. You know, it's wild, though. Amanda and Ray, if you're listening. So even in our neighborhood, you know, there is a recommendations group. Me, like, a specific group just for recommendations just within our neighborhood. And the amount of recommendations we get for plumbers, electric. I mean, you go through the list of things that people are asking. Hey, do you know someone that does this? Like, it's out there. People are willing to pay for it.

[George Camel]

So I have a really embarrassing story I'll share. Rachel. This happened this week that my. The lights and plugs in our master bedroom just would not work anymore. And I tried everything.

[John DeLoney]

I flipped off.

[George Camel]

I flipped the breaker.

[John DeLoney]

Good for you, George.

[George Camel]

I was googling things. I was texting. So finally, I had an electrician come out, and I said, what's your rate? I always ask them the rate ahead of time. They said 125 an hour. They show up to the house, these two guys.

[John DeLoney]

Hold on. I got to swallow my teeth, make sure I spit it out. Is it the.

[George Camel]

Five minutes later, they go, all right, we fixed it. I said, what'd you do? They said, we just flipped the breaker. I said, I flipped the breaker. They said, yeah, you got to do it harder. I was like. I was. How hard can you flip a breaker switch? This is insane. I don't know.

[John DeLoney]

So you didn't turn it off all the way? It's basically what the.

[George Camel]

I flipped that thing dad gum 17 times back and forth. Like, I was angry with it.

[John DeLoney]

Did they have to. Do you sometimes have to, like, let it pause and, like, let it sit there for a little bit?

[George Camel]

They had, I don't know, Excalibur's magic sword. I don't know what happened, Rachel. But anyways.

[John DeLoney]

Ray, are you listening?

[George Camel]

I got the invoice.

[John DeLoney]

George is out there.

[George Camel]

$125.

[John DeLoney]

Don't flip the breaker.

[George Camel]

These guys are making 1,000 bucks an hour at this rate. They spent five minutes at my house.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. Then they're going to the next. George. George. Camel.

[George Camel]

Go clip some more breakers. Gonna become baby steps millionaires off of idiots like this. Oh, this is the Ramsey show.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[George Camel]

Tonight this is April 21st. John DeLoney and Dave Ramsey are kicking off the money and Relationships tour.

[John DeLoney]

They're the first night, the first night for the tour.

[George Camel]

We've been talking about this forever and it's finally happening. So if you're in Louisville, they're happening tonight, April 21st. Go check it out. Durham is happening this Wednesday, April 23rd. Atlanta this Friday, April 25th. And here's what they're doing. They're going to be doing some improv, talking about money and relationships, helping you break patterns that have left you stuck breaking the cycle. And you get to choose the content before the event begins. And then they'll be riffing on it all night long, unfiltered. And it's going to be a great time. So check it out. Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, that's this week. And then they'll be coming to Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. The first and second week of May, Kansas City sold out for Fort Worth is not far behind. So get your tickets today to see Dave and John live ramseysolutions.com tour or click the link in the show notes and description. Jessica is up next in Milwaukee. What's going on? Jessica?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, how are you both doing?

[George Camel]

Doing great. How can we help?

[Rachel Cruz]

So my husband and I just started Financial Peace University a couple weeks ago.

[George Camel]

Awesome. How's it going?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's going really well. We are a one income family so realized our income wasn't quite where I needed it. So I did pick up a side gig as well.

[John DeLoney]

Good.

[George Camel]

What is it?

[Rachel Cruz]

My question, I am driving food delivery.

[John DeLoney]

Oh good, that's great.

[George Camel]

Through one of the apps like an uber eats or DoorDash.

[Rachel Cruz]

One of those through DoorDash.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

So it's my first time being a 1099 employee. So my question is how do I budget so that I'm not setting myself up for failure come next tax season?

[George Camel]

Great question. The easiest way to do this to just kind of muscle memory is just force yourself to put a third of whatever you make into a savings account, and that way you'll have the money set aside for taxes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

So if you made, let's say, a hundred dollars, you're gonna take 33 bucks and just transfer it to savings.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And then what you'll do on top of that to make it even easier and avoid stress and avoid a big tax bill is make quarterly estimated payments on the IRS website. That's what I used to do when I would do side hustles. And basically you're just estimating what you're going to owe in taxes and paying the IRS ahead of time so that when the end of the year comes, you've already paid most of your taxes. If not all, does that affect.

[Rachel Cruz]

So, like, my full time employment? Would that make. Would that change that at all or would you still do the quarterly payment?

[George Camel]

You'd still do quarterly payments because you're not being taxed on that 1099 income versus your full time employment. They're taking taxes out already. They're withholding.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, okay.

[George Camel]

So that's the big difference with 1099, folks, is no one's paying the taxes for you. No one's withholding for you. You've got to do it all yourself. And that's where this kind of savings account, quarterly estimated payments plan comes into place.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sounds good. That's what I needed to know.

[George Camel]

Awesome.

[John DeLoney]

So great.

[George Camel]

Thank you so much for the call. Way to go. Doing whatever it takes.

[John DeLoney]

I know.

[George Camel]

I shared on Smart money happy hour, my instacart side hustle.

[John DeLoney]

Yes, you did. For a weekend.

[George Camel]

What a struggle that was.

[John DeLoney]

They're hard workers.

[George Camel]

I think I did seven trips and it felt like a thousand.

[John DeLoney]

So much.

[George Camel]

Will this ever end? So God bless all of you out there. Side hustling. Tip your people well, if you're out there using these apps.

[John DeLoney]

That's why I was shocked. You're coming back and saying people didn't tip.

[George Camel]

I went to some real wealthy neighborhoods, man. Around this part of town. Rachel, $3 tip.

[John DeLoney]

I mean, that's. That's pretty unbelievable.

[George Camel]

I was. I had gallons of waters and deliver. Delivering to the door. Three trips back and forth from the trunk.

[John DeLoney]

What a. What a.

[George Camel]

All for three dollar tip.

[John DeLoney]

That's. I don't think that's in the trips.

[George Camel]

They don't pay you much in these apps. They'll tell you ahead of time. Hey, you're gonna get $6 for this trip, plus tips.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. So make it worth it.

[George Camel]

Yeah. An hour of my time for $9. Get out of here.

[John DeLoney]

Get out of here.

[George Camel]

All right. Next up, we've got Rachel in Milwaukee. Rachel, meet Rachel.

[John DeLoney]

Hello.

[George Camel]

Hey, you're breaking up on us. Can we hear you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Can you hear me?

[George Camel]

There we go.

[John DeLoney]

There you are.

[George Camel]

What's going on?

[Rachel Cruz]

I have just over $250,000 in debt, and I recently received a summons for medical debt. So I did speak to a few attorneys, and they're all suggesting bankruptcy. I've listened to you guys long enough to know that that's usually not a suggestion. I'm just kind of curious as to where I go from here.

[John DeLoney]

Is the. Is all 250 in medical debt?

[Rachel Cruz]

No. 6. About 61,000 is medical debt.

[John DeLoney]

What's the rest of it?

[Rachel Cruz]

I have about 27,000 in credit cards. I have 6,500 in a car loan, 13,000 in a personal loan. I got 78,000 in private student loans and 65,000 in federal loans.

[John DeLoney]

In federal loans. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[John DeLoney]

So over what for? So 140 of its student loans, correct? Pretty much. Oh, man. Rachel. Okay, how much. How much are you making a year?

[Rachel Cruz]

I would say I make around 78. So I can check. Probably like 60, maybe 59.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. You're kind of breaking up, Rachel. Yeah. I want to make sure we get these numbers right. Okay.

[George Camel]

So after you're bringing home about five grand a month. I'm so sorry. We're having a hard time hearing you. Well, we'll see if we can clean up your line and get you back on Rachel. But looking at these numbers, bringing home 5,000amonth, I. I don't know that you'll even be able to make your payments on these debts. And the only one that you could really clean up fast is getting rid of the car loan. If you're not underwater on it and you can use the proceeds to get something else. But that only cleans up six grand.

[John DeLoney]

Out of 250 out of the whole thing.

[George Camel]

So it may not even be worth it, the medical debt. I'm wondering if they'll. They'd be willing to settle. You'd probably need to get on some sort of payment plan.

[John DeLoney]

And same with the credit cards. I mean, the $27,000 in credit cards. I would. If you are defaulted on any Rachel or behind, call those first and ask them for a settlement or if you have any extra. Like if you had a bill, you know, a $6,000 credit card, just pretend that you were behind on. And. And I don't know what your savings situation is, but even if you had three grand, half of it, call them and say, hey, I can Settle today. And as you do that and save up a little bit, most of these credit card companies, especially if it's in default, they actually would settle sometimes pennies on the dollar, depending on how long it's been not paid. But. So the. Yeah, the medical and the credit card is probably where you can do the most negotiating. Gosh. The. The student loan, 140,000. I almost would put that on hardship deferred. I wonder with the medical stuff, if you're able to do anything there. Just. I'm just trying to get you to a place where you can get at least stability. Yeah. Of just the payments before even looking to attack it. Because to your point with all of this, I don't even know it's making enough for that.

[George Camel]

Let's see if your line's cleaned up. Rachel, are you still with us?

[Rachel Cruz]

I am.

[George Camel]

Okay. Do you have anything in savings?

[Rachel Cruz]

I have about 1200 in savings.

[George Camel]

Okay, so that's your baby step one. You've got that covered. And you're just solo. Right. You're not married.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

And what are you. What are you doing for a job? Like, what was your degree in?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm a nurse.

[John DeLoney]

You're a nurse. Okay. What type of nurse are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm an lpn.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Could you do, like, travel nursing?

[Rachel Cruz]

I could, but I. According to, like, their ads, in terms of pay, it's not much different.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, no.

[George Camel]

Every travel nurse that calls the show is making, like, $250,000.

[John DeLoney]

I mean, they're making insane money. Insane money. So, Rachel, I would be doing your research hardcore into that because in the.

[George Camel]

Meantime, take as many shifts as you can.

[John DeLoney]

Yes, because. So I'm so glad you're a nurse because that gives such a range of possibilities of what you can be making. And I'm thankful that that's the case because, yeah, some of these. These travel nurses, man, they do it for, yeah, two to three years, and they make so much money, it's wild. So, no, I would be researching into that heavily because that's. That's going to be the biggest thing, Rachel, to get you out of this is the income side. And again, that's the positive of your situation is I think that it is out there, whether it's working overtime, like you're saying, George, or just finding a new line of work within nursing that pays more.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Um, but that's gonna be your. Yeah, I mean that you're gonna find more money doing that, Rachel, figuring out how to work overtime than doing, like, instacart shopping, like, what we Were just saying. So you are qualified to make a lot of money in extra, in extra time. So if you're working an extra few shifts, yeah, that's gonna bring it up. And so that's gonna be it, Rachel. And so, and it's, it's gonna be knocking out this debt smallest to largest and again seeing where you can settle. And you'll probably be able to settle the most with the medical and the credit cards.

[George Camel]

And the longer they've been in collections, the more willing they will be settle. But first, cover your four walls. Food, utilities, your housing, your transportation. You pay those before you pay anybody else. If there's money left over, we can throw some payments their way. I'm going to set you up with a financial coach on us, Rachel, to walk you through all of this. So hang on the line. We're going to get you connected to a Ramsey preferred financial coach who can walk with you. So sorry you're going through this. This is the Rams.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[George Camel]

Hey, if you're enjoying the show, do us a quick favor. Hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening or watching. Watching. Leave us a kind review, share it with a friend. All of that helps us reach more people with this message. We appreciate you guys. Ben is up next in Cleveland, Ohio. Ben, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi guys. How are you guys doing?

[George Camel]

Doing well. What's going on with you?

[Rachel Cruz]

So my wife and I just purchased our second home and we have closing in about 30 days. And we have the means to pay cash for it, but our financial advisor is telling us not to. And I've been listening to you guys for a while, and I'm leaning towards the side of paying cash for it, but my wife isn't there yet. So I was wondering if you guys have any advice for us on that.

[John DeLoney]

What's the financial. I think I know the answer. I just want to hear it from you. What is the financial advisor saying? Why you shouldn't be paying cash.

[Rachel Cruz]

So his main reason, he says his taxes and the interest that we're earning on the money is more than the interest rate that we'd be paying on the loan.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. What's the taxes? What was he saying? Taking money out. You'll have to pay taxes on the money you have invested.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but you're going to have to do that at some point.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And I realized that. I think the problem that I'm struggling with is the disconnect between my wife and I. How. How do I help her understand? I, like, I, like, I realize. And like, we've done the math and I've showed her the numbers of, like, you know, what we'd be paying for the mortgage. Like, so. So the house is 575,000. We're selling the one that we have now. We have that. We did a loan on that because that's. That's kind of what she wanted to do. And I was okay with that at that point. And this one, I think there's a disconnect between her and I, and I'm not sure how to get over that.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. From a relational standpoint is what that ends up being. So I think one of the things that's hard, that's not so black and white when it comes to this argument of the investment and the interest rate and all of it is what you can't put into an Excel file in a formula is peace of mind and autonomy of just having the ability, Right. To own everything you have, including your largest asset, probably the one nearest to a family's heart of safety and security is your home. Right. Like, it's literally the roof that you go under to live and raise your family. Like it is such a personal part of your life. And to have that and have such peace with knowing that there is no money owed on it, that you have the ability to. You just can't put that into a financial formula. And then the other thing I would say, Ben, is, you know, we've done the largest study of millionaires ever done, and one of the number one things that people say in order to get them to a place of millionaire status and to continue to build wealth to change their family tree is to pay off their home. So people are looking to do this. This is a goal people have and it's such a outlandish goal because so many people don't have the ability to do it right now. So it's a seven year goal, right? So the fact that you all can do that today, it just puts you so ahead. So ahead of where you are. And, and what's wild too is just running the formula of, okay, let's just say you, let's pretend that yeah, you invested the mortgage payment every year or every month, right. And how quickly you could build back up your savings even by just doing that. And so, yeah, I think it is scary because it is a lot of money that you're just putting out there, but you're putting it into an asset that continues to go up in value and the market right now, I mean if you have the money, it's a great time to buy because it's so volatile, right. Even in the last, with all the tariff stuff, even in the last like two weeks, it's just up and down. It's just crazy. And so if anything, I would want more stability in my life. And having a paid off home gives, gives you a huge level of that. And so, but that's the hard thing is you can't. Where a financial advisor usually is looking at the math and the numbers and the percentages, you can't put the emotional part of money into that. And so that's the point that I feel like is always a hard turn for people to understand. But you know what, I would tell her too, Ben, if she would, which I know this is a big deal, but I would ask her like, hey, since we did the mortgage on the last house, can we do the paid off home pay for cash this and let's give it nine to 12 months. And if we hate it, if we hate having a paid for house, like it's just the worst thing in the whole world. Go, go take a mortgage out on it. Like you can do that. Yeah, you can always go backwards and do that. And I'm telling you, he's gonna be like, no, this is great.

[George Camel]

I'm with Rachel on this. And Ben, I'm curious, do you have all this money invested with your financial advisor?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's answer another question.

[John DeLoney]

There you go.

[George Camel]

Is the financial advisor incentivized to keep your money with him? Instead of having it in the equity of your home.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So can, can I give you guys a little bit of a backstory here?

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

So. And I think it has somewhat to do with why my wife is feeling the way that she is. So this money, we're 25 and 27. And this money came from her parents being killed when she was a, when she was a baby. And there's a lawsuit.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[Rachel Cruz]

So. Yeah, so. So. And then it's been invested for 20 years. So. So there's a larger sum of money than that. But for her it's like this.

[John DeLoney]

I think it's an emotional tie. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And like an emotional tie to that.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, totally.

[Rachel Cruz]

And, and she, like, she wants, like, she wanted the house, so like we're purchasing it. But like seeing that money leave the account is, is what's, I think, hard on her.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And, and yeah, like George, what you were saying about is this investor incentivized to keep the money in his account. Like I, I understand that, but like I don't. How do I tell my wife that in a way that she understands? Like I don't want to. That almost sounds like because of the, the attachment to the money that, that she has. I don't know if that makes any sense.

[John DeLoney]

No, it does. So I think, to George's point, I think your wife can understand that regardless of how the money was came to be. And we, and we don't know the heart of this financial advisor either.

[George Camel]

Right. I don't think they're a bad person. I don't think they're malicious. It's just the nature of their job.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, there's a nature of the job that is very understandable that I think anyone can kind of grasp and understand. Right. So there's that piece. And then for her, I mean, I, you know, I, I would say that the legacy of what her of, of continuing her parents legacy, this is a beautiful way to do it.

[George Camel]

I mean it's almost, you're really deeming a terrible situation.

[John DeLoney]

It's almost like they purchased this home for you. All right. In a sense that you get to raise your family in like there's something, there's something beautiful in that. And the fact that if you guys continue down this road and continue to invest and be smart about it, like maybe you all can pass that legacy on to your kids. Right. Like you can continue this snowball effect of something that was so horrific and so terrible to be able then to do something beautiful and redemptive about it and in my head, I'm like, I, as a parent, I would want my kids to have the least stressful. Right. Life financially if they can. And that's partly making smart decisions with money on your day to day basis. But it's also when you go and purchase really large items, cars, houses, to do it in the wisest way, that becomes a blessing and not a curse. And this is doing that for you all. Do you know what I mean? Like, so I see it as a beautiful tool. And for her, I can't imagine her story and the fact that it was as a child and growing up without your biological parents and it ending in such a tragic way. I mean, all of that, there is so much there. And so the grief and the attachment is totally understandable emotionally. And this is gonna sound harsh, Ben, but I am gonna just say it. Sometimes our emotions are the worst drivers when it comes to financial decisions, too. And so we don't want our emotions driving things. Sometimes it is leaning back on looking at, okay, what's better overall for our entire financial picture. Because people do a lot of things out of fear, grief, stress. Right. We look at these emotions and they don't always. They're not. There are indicators, and, you know, there's a lights on our dashboard of saying, hey, this thing is lighting up. And that's something to be curious about and dig into on your own personal story and what's going on with you. I think that's important. But we don't want it to be the only thing driving our financial decisions, because usually it's not.

[George Camel]

We've said fear is a terrible financial advisor.

[John DeLoney]

Yep.

[George Camel]

So, Ben, what. What would the mortgage payment be? Give me just a ballpark.

[Rachel Cruz]

I believe it'd be 3,500amonth.

[George Camel]

Okay, here's the good news. I just popped it in this investment calculator. 3,500amonth from 25 to 65, you'd have 22 million in there.

[John DeLoney]

So if the fear is by when. By when.

[George Camel]

By 65.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, 22 million.

[George Camel]

22 million, which is more than you got.

[John DeLoney]

She just invested the mortgage payment.

[George Camel]

Exactly. So there's a piece of this. We have to tackle it with the emotion, the pain point she's experiencing, then you can use the logic and math to go, it's gonna be okay. Here's the real facts. We're rooting for you guys. This is the Ramsey Show.

[John DeLoney]

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions, possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, credit unions, for one thing. Are nonprofit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. And that's what's more important than that though, is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[John DeLoney]

Well. And I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. Yeah. And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with [e-mail] or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, you. It's so easy to join Fair Winds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org Ramsey welcome back.

[George Camel]

To the Ramsey Show. 888-255-225 is the number to call if you want to join the conversation. And let's see, Rachel, I think we have a question of the day here from why refi if you've got defaulted student loans that don't let you gain any momentum? We get it. No judgment here. But also, nobody's coming to bail you out. So take charge today. Why? Refi.com Ramsey they offer refinancing to a low fixed rate loan built just for you. That's the letter Y, R, E, F, Y Dot com. Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[John DeLoney]

And today's question comes from Michael in North Carolina. Is it wise to open up a 0% interest credit card to handle a big expense with the intention of paying it down before the interest kicks in? My partner can't understand why this is a horrible decision. We need chimney repairs and it's going to cost about $4,500. We have enough saved to pay with cash. She doesn't want to use that money because she thinks it's the emergency fund should be able to be only can be used in case of a job loss. How can I convince her that it can also be used for repairs like our leaking chimney?

[George Camel]

Oh, boy, there we go. We're using the wrong tool for the job. I think that's this is one of those where it feels like a smart idea and then it becomes the slippery slope where you just stay in debt your whole life thinking that you're winning the game. So the 0% interest credit card, you have a big expense. Here's what happens. You end up going into debt to cover this big expense that you couldn't save up for. You stay in debt, you can't pay it off in the terms that were laid out of. You need you to pay this off within six months before interest kicks in. And then you call the Ramsey show and you've got payments all over your life going. Well, we got the zero percent card and it all started there.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So the solution here is an emergency fund, not another credit card.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. Which you guys have.

[George Camel]

So we have enough saved to pay with cash. She doesn't want to use it. She thinks the emergency fund should only be used in case of a job loss. That's not the case.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. Emergency fund is for things that are. What's our four things? Urgent, unexpected, unexpected, urgent, necessary and necessary. And I would say a chimney, I'm going to say is necessary. I feel like there could be a lot of house fires if this thing goes wrong.

[George Camel]

And then for the future, set up a sinking fund for maintenance and repairs knowing, hey, you know what, the chimney's pretty old. Probably going to need some repairs in the next few years. Let's go ahead and put a few hundred bucks away in a savings account just because we know it's going to happen. Yeah, but for now, use the cash. Don't open a 0% card. You're not doing yourself any favors. You're just playing games with snakes. You're going to get bit eventually. So I don't know how you can convince her, that's up to you. You decided to marry her. You figure it out. But it's going to take a little bit of persuasion because she. Right now she's thinking, this is my security blanket. I don't want to touch the emergency fund. It's there to protect us. While putting yourself at risk with this.

[John DeLoney]

With the other thing. That's it. That's the. That's the illusion that debt can cause is that we are okay because we may have some money, cash in the bank. But you're at risk when you owe people money. Like there is still a level of risk involved that if something were to happen and let's say you had to use your emergency fund because there actually was a job loss and you hadn't paid off the credit card. Now there's a job loss with no emergency fund and a credit. You know what I mean? So just like just start it.

[George Camel]

Don't do it. Just stay away. Your life's going to be better if you just pay for your life with cash. Only have a debit card. Don't even have the credit card open just in case. Just close it. Shut the door. Keep out the devil. That's what. Remember he sad song back in the day?

[John DeLoney]

No.

[George Camel]

Oh, I guess. I don't know. I grew up Arabic Baptist. We sang that song a lot. I got you. I know what it is.

[John DeLoney]

Keep the devil out. Is it a helm?

[George Camel]

I wouldn't call it a hymn. It's like a Sunday school song. Yeah, a Sunday school song. Rachel. Wow. Fine. Just leaving me in the dust.

[John DeLoney]

And I grew up charismatic.

[George Camel]

The comment section will back me up on this. Oh, my gosh.

[John DeLoney]

All right, all right. Go to Julie.

[George Camel]

Let's go to Julia in Sacramento. How can we help Julia?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, guys. Thank you for taking the call. I'm calling because. And I had spoken, I think it was with Jonathan. I didn't when they wanted me to call back, but I never got through.

[George Camel]

That's all right. You're here today.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm struggling with my husband. Okay. I'm ready to divorce again.

[George Camel]

Oh, gosh.

[Rachel Cruz]

About retirement. I don't know what to do. We're 66. 67. I have a teaching credential in Michigan, also in Texas. I'm applying even to Tennessee. But the thing is he says that we're stuck in this house, that if we move this cost money. We're in California. So the house is worth a little bit of money because it's California. But we still owe. It was. It's five something. But we still owe 3:25 or more on it. And I. I don't know what.

[George Camel]

So what is his plan?

[Rachel Cruz]

He doesn't have a plan.

[George Camel]

Well, you're in retirement age, so the idea of refusing to plan, you're here, you're in it.

[John DeLoney]

So. Yeah. What's he going to do? What's he thinking? Do y'all have. Do you have a big nest egg? Do you have a pension from teaching? Do you guys have 401?

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[John DeLoney]

So how are you guys paying bills right now?

[Rachel Cruz]

And he has a Roth.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, how much is in that?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

He hasn't. He said zero.

[John DeLoney]

He said zero. Zero dollars.

[George Camel]

Is he with you right now?

[Rachel Cruz]

He doesn't want to speak.

[George Camel]

Okay, he does. That's. That's fine. I'm not trying to get him on the phone. I just. You were saying he said he has zero. If that was a right.

[John DeLoney]

Are you. How are you guys paying for food right now in the mortgage?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, he's working. He has. He's a service director at a dealership, so he has a good job.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. How much is he making a year?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know, maybe 130, 135.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. And are you working, Julia, right now?

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'd like to get teaching again, but I'm not certified. In California, we have two girls we adopted out of foster care. So I get a little over a thousand, you know, for them.

[John DeLoney]

Sure, sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

Almost 2000. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

How old are they?

[Rachel Cruz]

One is 10, one is 12. Going on 20.

[John DeLoney]

Y'all are amazing.

[George Camel]

That would give me one reason to plan for retirement.

[Rachel Cruz]

One. That's right.

[George Camel]

Maybe two. Two great reasons.

[John DeLoney]

How long is he wanting to work for?

[Rachel Cruz]

He's just. I don't know. He just thinks he's going to keep working. And work is.

[George Camel]

Here's the thing. Even if you love your job, at some point your body's gonna say, I can't do this anymore.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay?

[George Camel]

That's how we're built as humans. We're not meant to last forever. So as much as he wants to work forever, what happens if there's a health issue at 70 and now this 130,000 income is gone and there's nothing to live off of and we gotta take care of these skirmish?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know. That's why I'm calling you.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so, Julia, what I would say.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm not sure if we should move out of state to somewhere cheaper than California. I don't know. And then he's afraid that he won't get a job if we Move.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. Which is a. I don't know. But, I mean, he's a service tech. Is that what you said?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, he's a service manager.

[John DeLoney]

Service manager. Okay. Okay. Well, number one problem, Julia, is you got there. Some of the questions I was asking of how much is in the Roth. How much does he make a year? You. You said, I don't know, and you would just guess. I don't know. 130. I don't know. I think he's saying zero. Like, you guys haven't really talked about specifics of money, have you?

[Rachel Cruz]

A little bit. I mean, I know he makes about 135. 130.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. So he.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like I said.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, well, word to the point, I.

[Rachel Cruz]

Think if he doesn't know what to do, you know what to do.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, totally. Okay, so, number one, we have to get on the same page of just saying Julia is in a place where she's scared. She didn't. She doesn't know what's going to happen. You guys still owe $325,000 on your house. You have nothing safe for retirement. You're in your late 60s. Like, lots of red flags, you know, Risk, risk, risk. Scared, scared, scared.

[Rachel Cruz]

Lots of red flags is right.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. So there has to be. Okay, so that's where you're at. We need to figure out. And you need to figure out, as his wife, where is he at? Is it that there's a level of not knowing and that's very intimidating of what to do at retirement, you know, whatever that is. But he needs to be honest with himself on what is causing him not to think about it, because there's a reason why some people don't want to think about it, because they don't want to think about death. So they don't want to do wills and they don't want to do estate plan. You know, like, I mean, there's a reason why people don't do things. So understanding that. And then you guys have to come together to say, we are both adults and we have to plan. It is part of. It's. It's part of society. We want to be able to eat when we're 80 years old and not have to work our whole lives. So what do we need to do to get into place? Yes. So we need to probably get with a financial advisor and get with someone who knows what they're doing. They live and breathe this stuff to be able to say, hey, let's map out how much you guys need to be putting away per month to get you to a place that is comfortable with retirement. But the truth is you guys are going to have to work another 10 years to even probably get that. So I would be doing that, Julia. And you can't change him. Okay. So if he won't not get on board on any of this, Julia, that's when we always say you separate the finances at that point. And then there's a point that you have to to get a job and you have to retire yourself. Julia. I mean, yeah, it's hard. That's what I'm trying to do, which we don't want.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm working out of state because I'm not certified in California.

[George Camel]

Yeah, you might need to lower your lifestyle, move to a lower cost living area and get the income up. It might be all of the above. But I want him working because he wants to, not because he has to. And right now he has to. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

You want to know more about something.

[George Camel]

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[Rachel Cruz]

I'm just wondering at what point do you start adding fun money into to your budget?

[George Camel]

What a great question for Rachel Cruz. No, nobody loves fun money more Than Rachel.

[John DeLoney]

Nobody loves to spend more like Rachel. At what point do you put it into the budget? I mean, I would be okay having a little bit. A little bit of breathing room of.

[George Camel]

I don't know, I feel like, here's.

[John DeLoney]

My take and you come back step two.

[George Camel]

How about that? My take is if you're in baby steps one, two or three, as little as possible to survive.

[John DeLoney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

What's just going to keep you just like, okay, I'm going to make it another day to fight. And then once you're in baby step four, then I can ratchet that up to a reasonable amount and make sure I'm on track for other financial goals.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I would say with baby step two, there's a little bit of that. Like, I think the longer you're in debt, probably the more lenient I am of having some fun money. Because if you're doing this for eight years, seven years, like Jade. Right. Jade and Sam were seven. You know, people that are five years, like, there's a reality.

[George Camel]

This is six months.

[John DeLoney]

Yes, exactly. There's a reality of life. Like, if this is going to be a long thing, like when are the times we just need to come up for air in order to go back down, to stay longer down, you know, in the. In the grind. But yeah, if you're able to get out of debt in like six months, I'd say nothing for six months. So you can do anything for six months.

[Rachel Cruz]

We've been in and out of debt.

[John DeLoney]

Well, there's a problem, Jamie. Why?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I have a mental health disorder that causes impulse control. And so that's a me thing. We've gotten it under control this time. We learned what actually was the issue when I had my first daughter, and we learned it about halfway between the first and second. And now we've gotten on medication. I've been able to round out my spending and keep everything within. And I've been. My husband's great. I've been watching the Dave Ramsey stuff and in the background, he's just bring validation because those are principles he's lived his entire life that isn't anything new to him.

[George Camel]

So where are you guys at right now?

[Rachel Cruz]

So we have paid off all the debt.

[George Camel]

Good.

[Rachel Cruz]

We only have our mortgage left, which I think we have about 70,000 left on.

[John DeLoney]

Great.

[George Camel]

Do you have an emergency fund?

[Rachel Cruz]

So we have the thousand, about 1500 almost. We're trying to figure out when to start adding in. And he's down to start. We make where we have about 3 to 400 quote unquote extras to go into savings every month as long as nothing happens.

[George Camel]

What's your household income?

[Rachel Cruz]

I know after taxes on both of his jobs, since I'm a stay at home mom right now. After taxes and healthcare and everything, we have about 51,000 each year.

[George Camel]

Okay, so a little over four grand coming in. Is he doing any investing right now?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, we don't know much about that. So we're not investing until we know.

[George Camel]

Okay, that's a good principle.

[John DeLoney]

So for now, Jamie, your next big financial goal is to get that fifteen hundred dollars up to three. I would probably lean more that five to six month, which will take you guys longer of an emergency fund versus the three just because of the kids. There's, you know, one person is the one making the income and I don't know, there's just a little bit of that kind of anything that's a volatility or a level of risk. Not that we say our children are risk, George. We would never say that. But you know what I mean, there's a level of.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

If something were to happen, we have other people that we need to take care of, not just ourselves. So I would go up more to that five to six month. And then from there, yes, start thinking about investing and to say, okay, where can we put some of this money? 15% of our income. And that will be probably sitting down with the Smartvestor Pro and just looking at Roth IRAs, 401ks, like kind of just. I mean, I would just start at the basics and you guys can understand that pretty quickly. It's not too confusing, but. But having someone help you in that arena I think is really smart. But for now for you guys, I mean, you're still on baby step three is what we would say from the baby step. So I probably wouldn't have a ton of fun money. I mean I would have some just to be able to.

[George Camel]

Well, the fact there's only 300 bucks of margin tells me you guys are running real tight because at this point it's going to take you years to get this emergency fund in. That's not okay with me. If I was your coach, I'd say we need to know we need to do some things with our income and expenses. So are your expenses 3600 bucks a month? 3900amonth. What are they?

[Rachel Cruz]

Our expenses, I think added up after everything to about 26 to 28.

[George Camel]

Okay, but you're saying he's bringing in over four grand a month, so there should be 1200 bucks laying around.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. That's the. I gotta remember where we've had a lot of emergencies recently and that's gone into the budget of like a car breaking down and things. And I believe that's where the rest has gone the past couple of months.

[George Camel]

Okay. I would be aiming to try to save at least a thousand bucks a month to this emergency fund so that you guys can be done before the year's over.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Or maybe by early 2026, because beyond that it's just too long. Baby Step 3 is already a slogan. It's not fun like paying off debt where you see momentum and progress. You're just stacking up, trying to build some foundation before you can start building for the future. So I would work on that.

[John DeLoney]

What is he doing for job? For a job. Jim, you said he's working two different jobs.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So he works at a retail mattress store in one of the malls as his second job.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

And then he works for UPS and a paper desk job now.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

As something or another.

[George Camel]

That's full time.

[Rachel Cruz]

Full time.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

Is that is ups 40 hours and the mattress is. Store is on top of that. So is he working like how many hours a week would you say? 50, 60?

[Rachel Cruz]

It really just kind of depends because the mattress one is not going to be forever.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

They've already showed that they are not trustworthy to keep us around. There's been maybe some layoffs here and there. Oh, wait, we need you back. So we're not going to.

[George Camel]

I'm shocked there's any mattress retailer still around. So I think he can, if he has skills in sales and people, he can probably find a, A better side job.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, no, we're working on it. And he's up for a raise soon hopefully. But if not, we're going to be looking at completely switching careers soon.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, I think that's a good idea because ideally, you know, especially when you're, you know, past baby step three, a sustainable 40 hour a week to support your life is that's going to be, you know, for a long term perspective, what you're shooting for. Not working 60 hours a week just to make ends meet. Yeah, we don't want that.

[Rachel Cruz]

And so we're in that in between. And he's talked about letting me have some fun money. I'm scared to death of. I don't want to cause any more issues. I want to get us through this and if I have fun money.

[John DeLoney]

Yes. Are you, are you seeing like a counselor or therapist for everything? Yeah, it's Okay. I would ask them about it because you're right. You're like, I don't want to open up something psychological that makes me go off the rails. Right. You don't want that. But to have the safety of a licensed therapist or counselor to kind of be the one to help they know about your story.

[George Camel]

And what would be a trigger point for you?

[John DeLoney]

I would be curious what they would say about it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

But one thing I would do is freeze your credit. So you have no option to go into debt even if you wanted to. And you can free, you can unplug your all the card information from every site that you use. All of that stuff, adding more friction in is going to help you just create more guardrails, more boundaries that you don't slip back into debt.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And Jamie, hold on the line and we'll get your husband Ken Coleman's book. Find the work you're wired to do because in the back there's a great assessment that's fantastic about where your skills and your passions, everything that kind of lines up. So if you stay on the call, Christian will pick up and we guys will give you guys a copy of that as he kind of starts looking at a holistic picture of his career.

[George Camel]

And you know what? I'm going to send you Breaking Free from Broke. Read the Spending of Self Control chapter. I hope it just helps you heal from this and create some good habits moving forward. Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

[John DeLoney]

Hey.

[George Camel]

Our EveryDollar team has multiple free trainings for you this month. So join the them live to learn how to break the paycheck to PayCheck cycle. In 90 days, you're going to get a step by step walkthrough of the EveryDollar budgeting app. Plus get your biggest budgeting questions answered live in the Q and a. Over 160,000 people have already joined. Spots are limited, so go sign up for free. Everydollar.com webinar Robin is up next in Orlando, Florida. How can we help? Robin?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. Yes, I. How are you guys doing?

[George Camel]

Well.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, great. So my question is I am $230,000 in debt with me and my husband are.

[John DeLoney]

And. Say it again. Sorry, what Was the number? 234.

[Rachel Cruz]

234,368.58. Perfect.

[John DeLoney]

There you go.

[George Camel]

You know your numbers. That's a start.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, I follow the Every dollar app and I go see my family twice a year in Texas. And I feel guilty if I do because I'm trying to pay off my debt, but I feel guilty if I don't because my kids want to see my family. So I'm trying to figure out how to get out of that guilt thing. We put a lot towards our debt every month. We put between 2 to 5,000 towards it every month.

[John DeLoney]

That's great.

[Rachel Cruz]

My husband makes a decent amount. So is it okay that I go see them or like.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, I mean, I don't. Yeah. The thing with these kind of scenarios, I never say, like, is it okay, yes or no to go see family? I think it's just not a moral issue. No, it's just how fast do we want to get out of debt? I mean, how, how much money you guys spending on these trips? Like one trip to see your family? How much Would that be five grand? Two grand? One grand?

[Rachel Cruz]

Like a grand?

[John DeLoney]

A thousand dollars. Okay. And you're doing that twice a year. So we're talking two to $3,000 a year.

[George Camel]

And you're not going into debt for these trips?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I put it in my budget. I do the every dollar app. I put it in my budget to plan it out for that trip.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I just pay a little less on my debt that month.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. I mean, again, I think it's one of these things with any level of. And I would probably put this in the category of like a luxury, because is there anyone sick? Like, is there like a. Oh, my gosh. Like, you know, we. We're gonna go visit.

[George Camel]

We only don't know how many more years we have with Grandma. Or is it just that this is a tradition? We always go see them for these holidays.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's more of a. I miss my family, I get homesick, and I like to go see them.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is totally fine. So. Yes, I think it's one of these things. If you and your husband agree that two grand a year is gonna put us back, you know, what, two months probably in a debt payoff in general, like, is that. Is that trade off worth it? And I mean, I would probably say yeah. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. Like, we've said, like, if people are getting married out of state or like there's a destination wedding or there's a funeral. Right. There's reasons to travel, and it's usually for more of a celebration or a event that is once in a, you know, something is happening.

[George Camel]

Can they come to you? Are they too old?

[Rachel Cruz]

They come to us twice a year as well. So we see each other four times a year, but they come to us and then we come to them. Last year we didn't go see them at all because why last year but this year.

[John DeLoney]

Why didn't you go last year at all?

[Rachel Cruz]

We were opening. We were opening a business and I had to really focus on that last year. And so it was. It was very hard on our mental capacity. And I just had a newborn son.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So.

[John DeLoney]

So, okay. So, Robin, you. I feel like you guys are very detail oriented. You're, you know, your numbers really well. What is the. When do you think you guys are going to be completely debt free? And does the 234 include your mortgage or is that all consumer?

[Rachel Cruz]

That is all consumer. I also have a mortgage of 430,000.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, and how much are you guys Making a year.

[Rachel Cruz]

So my husband makes between 15 and 20,000amonth.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Why can you only put two grand a month towards your debt? Now I'm mad.

[John DeLoney]

No, she said 5,000. Two to five thousand, she said.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but you're making. He's making 20. Why do you guys have $15,000 of expenses every month?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, we have a pretty high mortgage and then my son is in school, which that is about to change. So that number will go up. That number is going to go down because he's about to be in pre.

[John DeLoney]

K. How much is the mortgage a month?

[Rachel Cruz]

3,500Amonth.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. And how much is the school a month?

[Rachel Cruz]

1500Amonth.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so that, so there's $10,000 left at least. Where is that? And 5000 we'll say is going to the debt. So they're living on five? Yeah, George isn't, George isn't happy.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's just the.

[George Camel]

It's going to take you guys six years to get out of debt. Do you hear that? It's going to take you five or six years at this rate.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's at the minimum. So I calculated everything to the minimum and then anything extra goes straight towards the debt. Like this month we put 7k towards our debt.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, okay, that's good. Okay, so then they're living on three.

[George Camel]

But can I do the math for you? I try to average, average debt payoff for someone following the steps with Gazelle Intensity is 18 to 24 months. Now you guys have a lot of consumer debt, so that's just the average. So you guys might lean to two, two and a half years, three years. But that still means you need to be putting seven to ten grand per month consistently towards this debt to knock it out in two to three years. And I want that to be like come hell or high water, we are putting seven to ten grand a month.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you understand that is, that is our plan? Yes. The day in the summer months my husband doesn't get as much extra work so he works two full time jobs and then he's a wedding photographer and all of he has a bunch of side gigs and makes him a lot of money. But during the summer that slows down. So I lowered the number the amount that we put towards the debt because we are making the minimum of 15,000 at that point.

[George Camel]

Okay, but do you see what I'm saying? I want you to have a fire. And right now I feel like you guys are fairly comfortable the way you're talking in the lifestyle. I want you to cut this down to nothing. You can still do the trip. The trip is not what's causing this. I think there's a lot of other leaks happening as well. And that's where this budget will reveal it to you very quickly. Hey, we made 20 grand this month. Where did it all go?

[John DeLoney]

But you're doing the every dollar budget, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

So you're seeing a lot of it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Recently has been going to the business.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Was the business profitable Business now starting to make break even.

[George Camel]

Okay, what's the trajectory? Is this thing going to be making money in the next two months?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's a franchise, and I'm hoping it will, but we are currently breaking even.

[George Camel]

How much of this debt is tied to the business?

[Rachel Cruz]

None of that. None of it.

[George Camel]

We have how much of it is cars.

[Rachel Cruz]

This is only 40,000.

[George Camel]

Only. I don't know what part of town you grew up in, but that's a lot of debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's a lot. But we have really good interest rates. We pay 500 per car.

[George Camel]

And you're so lucky. Rachel Cruz is here to be good.

[John DeLoney]

Call Robin.

[George Camel]

You're Robin. I'm. I'm just telling you right now. Call me back when you're serious and you actually want to get out of this mess, not when you want to tell me you have a great interest rate on your debt. I mean, you guys make a quarter million dollars a year. Do you understand how insane this is?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yes, I do. That is why I am.

[John DeLoney]

How much is that? Hey, hey, Robin. How much. How much could you get for the car right now if you, Kelly blue booked it? What do you think? Have you, Kelly? Probably not.

[Rachel Cruz]

I have actually. For my car, I would get about 10, and I owe 20 on it. For my husband's car, I'd get about 20, and he has 21 on it.

[John DeLoney]

Well, wait, hold on. The forty thousand dollar car. Say that again. You would only get 20 for it.

[Rachel Cruz]

For my car, I would get about 10 on my car.

[John DeLoney]

And you owe forty thousand dollars.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[John DeLoney]

I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Two cars here. Yeah, 20 each here.

[John DeLoney]

You. Okay, so 10 for yours. And then what would he.

[Rachel Cruz]

And 20 for his and 20 for his.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so the way, you know, you could look at this is the 40,000, which you'd have to put 10 because you're. You're, you know, underwater. 10. But that's $30,000. Which, George, to your math of what you're saying, would be, you know, the way she's going at five grand a month, you would save six months by Just selling the cars, you could save six months of being in debt. So let's do that, Robin. And that would show George that you are serious.

[George Camel]

I need some skin in the game.

[John DeLoney]

Robin. If y'all sold these cars, then I know you're serious. 10 days, then you're serious. Okay. That would be like, yes, we are. We are scorched earth. We are doing anything and everything to get out of debt. And that would be the move to make. That's six. That's saving six months of your time of being in debt. It's just from cars. So that has to be your mindset. That's what George, how you feeling? You okay over there?

[George Camel]

I'm doing better.

[John DeLoney]

Breathe, George, breathe. Just breathe. Take some deep breaths, George. So that's Robin. That's the kind of stuff we're talking about. And then from there. And if you can get out of this franchise, it's feeling like it's sucking up money. And your husband's already working like four jobs. What you're saying. So you guys have a lot of busyness and clutter in your life, so I would simplify everything and live a peaceful life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's be honest. Shopping for health insurance can be confusing with high costs, complicated terms, and customer service that doesn't really serve you. Most folks just pick a plan and hope for the best. See, insurance companies don't work for you. They work for themselves. Meaning they love it when you overpay. So you need a guide on your team to help you make the best choices. Health Trust Financial works for you. They're not salespeople. They help you find the health insurance option that makes sense and saves you money. The fact is, health insurance is one of the biggest expenses in your budget. But most people who work with Health Trust Financial in end up saving $500 a month. Imagine putting that kind of money toward the baby steps. My team has worked with them for over 20 years, and they've served thousands of people just like you. They're the only health insurance broker that's Ramsey. Trusted to help you. So stop throwing money away and get the health insurance that's right for [e-mail] that's healthtrust financial.com. listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it Went. So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the EveryDollar budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free. So no excuses. Download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play. Today.

[George Camel]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage, we have Jacques and Jennifer here to do a debt free scream. Welcome, guys.

[John DeLoney]

Thank you. Thank you.

[George Camel]

Where are you guys from?

[John DeLoney]

Cincinnati, Ohio.

[George Camel]

Love it. Thanks for coming by to do your debt free scream. How much did you guys pay off?

[John DeLoney]

$203,000. Oh my gosh.

[George Camel]

How long?

[John DeLoney]

52 months.

[George Camel]

Yep.

[John DeLoney]

And making what kind of money during that time?

[Dave Ramsey]

Not enough.

[John DeLoney]

We started out about 160 and ended 230. Wow. What was the jump? Just some job changes. Okay. Motions.

[Dave Ramsey]

She got a new job.

[John DeLoney]

Great. What do you guys do? I'm in a Marketing director. Property management.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm a state trooper in Ohio.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Wonderful.

[John DeLoney]

You guys.

[George Camel]

I'll remember you if I'm ever driving through Ohio and I get pulled over.

[John DeLoney]

You need someone?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we work on commission, so.

[John DeLoney]

No, not good. George, I love it. And what did the $203,000 consist of? Of debt. It was our house. Oh my gosh. Completely. We are weirdos. Oh. How does it feel? Unbelievable. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was great. I can finally buy the things I want.

[John DeLoney]

There you go. There you go. You know, it's funny you say that because we. I talk about in my book Know Yourself, Know youw Money, about why we want to win with money. And for some people it's pure safety. It's like I just want to feel safe. And then for some people it is more of this. I say status. It's not a bad thing. But it's like I want to win so that I can enjoy my life and do things with that money. So I feel ya. I feel you. Jacques on that. That's great.

[George Camel]

I love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, she.

[John DeLoney]

She's making fun of me because I.

[George Camel]

Called the summer of Jacques.

[John DeLoney]

I'm doing all the things I've wanted to do. Summer of Jacques.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Was there. Was there like a big carrot you were dangling of like this is the big thing I want to do or was it. Was it like a habits? What are your hobbies? What are the things that you were looking forward to doing once the house was paid off?

[John DeLoney]

I mean, just to finally buy stuff that we want. More experiences.

[George Camel]

More experience.

[Dave Ramsey]

I Want to go and see and do things.

[George Camel]

I love it.

[John DeLoney]

That's amazing, you guys. Okay, so what happened 52 months ago caused this. This whole journey of being weird people? I drank the juice or the lemonade or whatever it was called, and I just started just. And I followed.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. I just started watching.

[George Camel]

Was it watching clips? So how'd you guys get connected to us? She started.

[Dave Ramsey]

She.

[George Camel]

That was a accusatory.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, that was a racing point. I'm good at that.

[Dave Ramsey]

She started on listening to the podcast on. On the Ramsey network. And then when we were exercising, we would listen to stuff and.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she got hooked and.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And then you looked at your own numbers. So then you look down.

[John DeLoney]

He's like, I'm hooked to her, so I gotta do it. No, there was a level that you were probably like, this sounds great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I do.

[George Camel]

I do like having the security. I'm a security person.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so, you know, now that you don't.

[John DeLoney]

It's not fun owing people money. Yes. Yeah. So the autonomy feels great. Of just like, you're on your own, there's no banks attached that you're like.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think it was Covid.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Covet hit at the time. We had a mortgage. We were able to refi it, like, super low. We took it down to 15 years because Dave said so.

[John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then she just was like, let's hammer it out.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And y'all did it together now.

[George Camel]

Jacques says so.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

He's his own man, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

For a long time, but, you know, with an asterisk.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Yes. Yes. Oh, that's great, you guys.

[George Camel]

You just look down. He went, all right. 203,000. We could knock. How quickly could you knock this out? Did you guys set a goal?

[John DeLoney]

We didn't. I mean, we. We cash flowed quite a few things.

[Dave Ramsey]

She did the ring thing.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And then we. Then that stopped. And you rip off a ring.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

But then that fell off the wall. And so then we had a.

[George Camel]

Your arts and crafts project didn't work out.

[John DeLoney]

We didn't have tape. We didn't have the money for it, so whatever.

[George Camel]

Well, did you guys decide, hey, we can knock this out in five years or less? Like, was there a sort of a. All right, this is doable in the foreseeable future.

[John DeLoney]

We just knew last year we wanted to pay it off by the end of the year. So 2024 was the year we were paying off the big year. Okay.

[George Camel]

And you did it.

[John DeLoney]

And we did it. And in that 52 months, was there consumer debt that you Guys paid off first we actually just. We, no, before we started, we paid off. I wrote a check for my car in 2019 and then we cash flowed. A newer car, a bike for you. And then finished our basement. So we, we did other things. Totally great vacations and incredible. Yeah, we didn't do rice and beans.

[Dave Ramsey]

We did ramen and popcorn.

[John DeLoney]

Actually, I like that diet better.

[George Camel]

That sounds great.

[John DeLoney]

I think that sounds better. Ramen's pretty cheap.

[George Camel]

Maybe not, maybe not an upgrade health wise, but at least excitement wise.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Did you guys tell people what you were doing during this time? Were there people on the journey that were kind of cheering you on? Do you kind of keep it to yourself? I mean, you know, family members were cheering us on. I really just think that it was tributed to just listening to this pod, you know, the show and just listen to everyone. Their debt free screams. Because honestly, everyone thought we were weird and we knew we were weird and we wanted to be weird.

[George Camel]

So confidently weird. No insecurity.

[John DeLoney]

Oh my gosh.

[George Camel]

And now they're going to be going. Can you guys tell me how you did that exactly?

[John DeLoney]

Absolutely. You know, along the way I told.

[Dave Ramsey]

A lot of people how to do it or not, what I thought, what we thought, you know, and told them what we were doing and all that and they would listen. And I think now that you've done it and they see what the results are, maybe now they tune in a little bit more and they go, maybe it does work.

[George Camel]

Well, they want a magic trick. When you're telling them they're wanting some complicated cool strategy instead you're just like, yeah, just pay extra on the principle.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And they go, wait, no, no, tell me something, Stick with it.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, I think we didn't miss a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Month, you know, if we wanted something, we stuck with that. We didn't miss a month on extra payments.

[George Camel]

Wow.

[John DeLoney]

So that's a lot of it. And we also became millionaires in the process too.

[George Camel]

So we are babysitting millionaires. What's the house worth?

[John DeLoney]

So about 550 ish. Okay. And then just with other things, investments, everything.

[George Camel]

Yeah, about 1.5 almost.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, 1.5. We are on a roll to retire with some, some money maybe.

[George Camel]

So proud of you guys.

[John DeLoney]

Go. So many races, right? NASCAR races. He can't have to work a couple more years. That's incredible you guys. Absolutely amazing. Oh my gosh, we are excited.

[George Camel]

What do you tell people? The key is if there was one thing that you need to become debt.

[John DeLoney]

Free, go ahead, hun, I know you're eager. There was a SNL skit and it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was, don't spend the money unless you have it.

[John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

If I don't have it, can I?

[John DeLoney]

No.

[George Camel]

So just live on less than you make.

[John DeLoney]

Absolutely.

[George Camel]

Don't go into debt to buy stuff.

[John DeLoney]

That's right.

[George Camel]

And you're gonna be okay.

[John DeLoney]

You'll be okay.

[George Camel]

I love it.

[John DeLoney]

Isn't that funny? It's the satire of America though, right? That skit of like, so if I have the money, can I buy it? Like, yes. If I don't have the money. No, you can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's only one page.

[John DeLoney]

Only one page. If you don't have the money, don't buy it. And so living that mantra. I would read that book. There you go. Yeah, that mantra. Sign me up for that one. Oh, my gosh. And you guys, I mean, this is really. When we talk about changing your family tree, this is the big one. I mean, baby step seven is where you really see it. Without a house payment. Starting to set you guys up well for the future and your kids. You guys have two. We met them earlier in another break. Two beautiful girls.

[George Camel]

You wanna bring them up?

[John DeLoney]

Come on, girls.

[George Camel]

What's the names and age?

[Dave Ramsey]

Come on up.

[John DeLoney]

Stand on either side. We have Izzy, who is how old? You're 11. All right. And then we have Avery, who is eight. Eight.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I'm sure they were very helpful along the way, keeping you guys motivated, accountable, where they were like, hey, mom, sometimes for them, because we're not going through the drive thru, mom, we got to pay this house off.

[John DeLoney]

I know. I was like, sorry, sorry. No chick fil A. There was a lot of.

[Dave Ramsey]

They know Dave Ramsey. Probably just as good as most people.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, I love it.

[George Camel]

That bodes well for their financial.

[Dave Ramsey]

This was a big thing for them.

[John DeLoney]

You guys have beautiful, beautiful family. Go. Well done, you guys. Well done.

[George Camel]

Have they been practicing the debt free scream?

[John DeLoney]

So, yeah.

[George Camel]

Oh, yeah, we're about to find out. We've got a parting gift for you guys. We have two one year subscriptions to every dollar premium. So you can use those or pass them along to someone else who you want to encourage on the journey. And let's get to it. It's Jock and Jennifer from Cincinnati, Ohio, with izzy and Avery. $203,000 paid off mortgage and everything. Complete weirdos. In 52 months, making 160 all the way up to 250. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, three, three, two, one.

[George Camel]

We're debt free. Oh, we got a dance. We got A celebratory debt free dance.

[John DeLoney]

As she should.

[George Camel]

That was special.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, incredible. Absolutely incredible.

[George Camel]

I don't know. Something about the kids that gets me every time. Rachel. When they join in.

[John DeLoney]

I know. I mean, it's just wild. You know, we had a call that we're like, should we pay cash for our house? We have the money, but we kind of just want to take it out because of the interest rates. People just talk around this stuff, and when you do it, I bet you anything they don't want to go back into debt. Right. I mean, it's like once you do it, you taste that freedom and autonomy.

[George Camel]

You get the weight off you. No one's going, hey, I'd love to get that backpack full of bricks in it. Bring that back over.

[John DeLoney]

They're free. Absolutely free. I love it. And baby steps, millionaires, in the process. Look at that incredible intentionality.

[George Camel]

Focus. It's what it takes. Discipline. Live on less than you make. You heard it here. It's so simple and yet very few people actually do it. But they did it. We're so proud of you guys. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

What if one night could change your future? You don't have to stay trapped in the same old patterns that have left you stuck in your money, relationships, and your life. You can break the cycles that have kept you from moving forward. Dr. John DeLoney and I will show you how Live the Money and relationships tour is starting this week. Join us in Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth or Kansas City. It's down to the wire, so grab your tickets. [e-mail] tour. That's ramseysolutions.com tour.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. You know, a lot of what we teach Rachel is about getting your income up. We say your greatest wealth building tool is your income. And a lot of people go, okay, well, that's nice, but how do I just go make more without asking my boss for a raise and making it awkward? Well, there's this thing called side hustles and there's a gig economy out there now where you can just download an app and get out there and start making money tonight. And so what I did was create a side hustle quiz with our team that can help people figure out based on your time and your target of what you're trying to do, how much money you're trying to make and your talent. We can actually serve up here some side hustle options for you to make it easier.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. Which you're actually going to be great at and enjoy. Right?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

Because sometimes you do a side hustle and it's kind of miserable. You're doing it just to make some extra money to pay off the debt, and there's a reason for it. But if you can enjoy it in the process, how much better is that exactly?

[George Camel]

And so.

[John DeLoney]

So I took it. George, you took the quiz? I heard George had a quiz and I said, I'm going to be a good friend. And I am.

[George Camel]

You want a friend?

[John DeLoney]

I'm going to go through the squids. It gave me. Like, when I was a teen, we'd have like Seventeen magazine and they'd always have quizzes.

[George Camel]

I love the good quiz.

[John DeLoney]

You know what I mean?

[George Camel]

Tiger Beat.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. It was just like, you know, what kind of dream man do you know, do you like or whatever, right? Or like, what's your. I don't know. It would be all these, like, teen type quizzes. So gave that, that, that energy, George, a little bit more professional.

[George Camel]

Thank you. Yeah, Tiger Beat. But with a master's degree. That's what the side hustle quiz is. All right, let's. I have your results on the screen. So walk us through this, Rachel.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. So my best side hustles. Are you ready for this?

[George Camel]

Well, is your. We have like personality archetypes. So what is yours called?

[John DeLoney]

In person side hustles.

[George Camel]

Nope. Further up.

[John DeLoney]

Oh. Oh. Ooh. Professional.

[George Camel]

Nope. Is that you?

[John DeLoney]

Oh, did we switch it?

[George Camel]

Limited edition maybe now. I don't know, James. I guess they're accurate, right? Yeah, I guess. I guess. Rachel's a professional.

[John DeLoney]

This is my.

[George Camel]

I was shocked as well.

[John DeLoney]

Your question.

[George Camel]

Okay, so I have it up on the screen. Follow along. If you're watching on YouTube or the Ramsey network app or Spotify, you can see this. So you got some options. What are your in person side hustle options? As the professional.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Is consulting.

[George Camel]

So this is using your skills. That's why we call it the professional. Yes. You're refining skills.

[John DeLoney]

Business consulting, career coaching, financial coaching, investment counseling. That sounds right, huh? Nannying and I'm a mom of three. Sounds right. I'd be a great nanny. Event planning.

[George Camel]

You would do great with that, y'all.

[John DeLoney]

This is literally my. This is my world.

[George Camel]

Bar mitzvahs, quinceaneras. You would crush.

[John DeLoney]

Yes. Working part time, exploring a new career path. So just in general. Okay. And then my at home side hustles would be teaching English. Okay, I know English well. And then freelancing. So just finding something that I can do. But this was great. And I am a professional. George, what are you Are you a professional?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[John DeLoney]

You're not?

[George Camel]

No, I didn't. What I got was the limited edition.

[John DeLoney]

Which means what?

[George Camel]

Well, it's because I'm busy, Rachel. I don't have a lot of time throughout the week. Oh.

[John DeLoney]

I put. I had more time to do my.

[George Camel]

Side hustles as the dad of a toddler and one on the way. It's just a lot, you know.

[John DeLoney]

Wow.

[George Camel]

So I said, I don't have a lot of time. What can I do based on my skills? And here's what it spit out in person. Side hustles, indoor and outdoor home maintenance and repair. You know me, that's what I do best.

[John DeLoney]

This is a good quiz, George. Why do you feel like this? Quiz.

[George Camel]

Honestly, if it was home home organizing, I could crush with my ocd.

[John DeLoney]

But repairs, why do they give you repairs?

[George Camel]

I think it's just something you can look into if you, you know, these are just options.

[John DeLoney]

It's not saying, yeah, it's just flipping a breaker.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You know, that's. George isn't even great at that.

[George Camel]

But you know what a great one that showed up was? Photography. That was my past life. Media world. Film, photo. I used to do, you know, do wedding videography and so. That's a good one.

[John DeLoney]

And skateboard videos.

[George Camel]

That's right. And then at home, side hustles, freelancing, which is something I actually did as a side hustle for a long time. You know, building websites, taking the skills I have, branding, whatever it may be, tutoring, and then transcribing, which I'm a great typist, as you know.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, a transcriber.

[George Camel]

So I could sign up for a website where I can transcribe videos and just type out what they're saying.

[John DeLoney]

Love it.

[George Camel]

So there you go. Just some options. And if you guys want to take this at home, it's completely free. Jump onto ramseysolutions.com side hustle. Take the quiz. We'll also link it in the description and show notes wherever you're listening. But here's the goal. Find out the things that you can do to make extra money, and then add up what you could make per week, what that does per month, what that does per year. And this might be for a season while you get out of debt or get the emergency fund in place. I'm not advocating for you to have a side hustle for your whole life, but for a season, do what it takes to get to a place financially where you're stable, you have some foundation so you can build wealth for the Future.

[John DeLoney]

It's good. I'm so distracted because Transcriber. Are you a Friends fan? Your Seinfeld?

[George Camel]

Yeah. I mean, I know of Friends. I haven't seen every.

[John DeLoney]

When they played the game Boys against Girls. And one of the questions was, what does Chandler Bing do for a living? And they couldn't remember. And Rachel was like, he's a. He's a. He's. And I think I thought she said, he's a transcriber. But it wasn't. Because, like, that's not even a word.

[George Camel]

Transcriptionist, maybe.

[John DeLoney]

No. Okay, I'll find it.

[George Camel]

But anyway, someone will let us know.

[John DeLoney]

When you said transcriber, I just went and played that entire Friends episode through my head. As you were talking, I could tell.

[George Camel]

You were in another world.

[John DeLoney]

I was like, what was that answer? That?

[Dave Ramsey]

Transponster.

[John DeLoney]

A transponster. And then Monica's like, that's not even a word.

[George Camel]

If you guys ever wanted to know what it's like being inside the mind of Rachel Cruz, that summed it up right there. Me saying one word and her completely going somewhere else in her mind for the next three minutes.

[John DeLoney]

You're doing great, though. Send people to your quiz. That's right, the quiz.

[George Camel]

Go check it out.

[John DeLoney]

But it's great. It is awesome, George. Well done. And I'm a professional, so professional.

[George Camel]

All right, Brian is up next in Annapolis, Maryland. What's going on, Brian? How can we help today?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hello. How are you guys doing today?

[George Camel]

Doing well.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is that Rachel Cruz on there as well?

[George Camel]

That's it. That's right.

[John DeLoney]

Hello.

[Rachel Cruz]

In Living coast, the Rachel Cruz. Get out.

[John DeLoney]

The professional Rachel Cruz. Possibly the event planner Rachel Cruz, but that is me. Yes, Brian, how can we help today?

[Rachel Cruz]

I got a little sidetracked. Sidetracked with the Side Hustle. I had my question prepared, but Side Hustle? Ramsey quiz. Where Is that a thing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, is that somewhere I can go?

[George Camel]

Go to ramseysolutions.com side hustle and it'll take you right there.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate.

[George Camel]

People are going to think that this was a planned call for you to talk about this. I promise it wasn't. Do you have a real financial question for us?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. I'm so sorry.

[John DeLoney]

No, you're great.

[George Camel]

I just want to make. We're running out of time.

[Rachel Cruz]

So my mom, at age 80, has no retirement. I am her dedicated financial person. Dementia comes and goes. Luckily, yeah. Thank you. Luckily, she came into a small windfall of money. It was 20 grand. It's now down to 12. And that's why I'm helping. So the question is, what investment vehicles are left at her age? What does an 80 year old person do? I've heard CDs, I've heard money markets, and I'm like, okay, well, does she.

[George Camel]

Have an income right now?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, sir.

[George Camel]

How much does she bring in every month?

[Rachel Cruz]

$3,144.

[George Camel]

And what are her bills every month?

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so her bills, she has a single.

[George Camel]

Just total. What is the total for a month? Is it less than 3100?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, it is.

[George Camel]

Okay, how much is left?

[Rachel Cruz]

Over 700.

[George Camel]

So essentially she has 700 bucks a month to invest.

[Rachel Cruz]

From her income. Yeah, that's 12,000 sitting there.

[George Camel]

I would just park all of that in a high Yield savings account.

[Rachel Cruz]

High Yield savings account?

[George Camel]

Yep. She doesn't need to be investing with that money. She needs that money to protect her in case of emergencies.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. What's her housing situation, Brian? Is she renting? Does she own?

[Rachel Cruz]

She just got out of a bad situation with my brother. He's in jail. We'll leave it there. My sister and I got her in a 55 and over retirement community.

[Dave Ramsey]

She has a single bedroom apartment.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, she's renting.

[Rachel Cruz]

Life is good. Yes, sir.

[George Camel]

Okay, what's her rent every month?

[Rachel Cruz]

14.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so 14. Yeah. And what is she doing for a job? What is she with the dementia kind of going in and out? What's her, what's her job?

[Rachel Cruz]

There is no job.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, it's Social Security.

[George Camel]

All of it?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, ma'am.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, gotcha.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, ma'am. So it's half social and half VA benefits. My dad was a Marine.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. And what's her health, Brian? I mean, I know with dementia it can, it can vary, but do you guys, do you think she, she has another 10 years or do you think she's not doing well?

[Rachel Cruz]

My sister and I are. It's. So I heard Dave Ramsey say if you make it to 64, you have a good chance of making it to 90. Something close.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we're just like, okay, she's gonna.

[Rachel Cruz]

Make it to 90. 95.

[John DeLoney]

And are you and your, are you and your sister in a good place financially to help in the meantime time if she needs it?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm on baby step two. She is sort of on baby steps one.

[George Camel]

Okay, we're going to say no on that one. But I would just stack that cash in the High yield savings and even that 700amonth, just keep adding it to the high yield savings. I don't think I'd worry about investing for the next 30 years. Right now, just. Let's just try to survive and get a nice cushion. This is the Ramsey show.

[Dave Ramsey]

No matter what you want to do with your money.

[George Camel]

Hey, what are you still doing here? You know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app, right? So you got to jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free. Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey Network. It's completely free, and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right, go on now. Don't make it weird. Okay. I got nowhere to go, so you need to go. Okay, bye. Bye, now. All right, this is. It's getting weird over there, guys. What do we do?