You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems

Summary

The Ramsey Show - Episode Summary

Episode Title: You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems
Air Date: January 1, 2026
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Dr. John DeLoney
Summary by [Podcast Summarizer]

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney tackle a range of listener questions that center around the core theme: You can’t build wealth if you continue to shoulder financial problems that aren’t yours to solve. The hosts explore the boundaries between helping loved ones and enabling financial dysfunction, discuss the dangers of co-signing or rescuing others, and highlight strategies for taking back control of one’s own financial future. The show is punctuated by candid, tough-love advice, practical steps for getting out of debt, and personal stories from callers struggling with family, money, and life transitions.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Children Should Not Carry Parental Financial Problems

(00:27 – 09:10)

• Caller Cody shares: His wife’s parents are borrowing money from their underage children (ages 10, 12, and 17) to pay bills and groceries.
• Discussion:
  • Dr. John DeLoney’s take: “I’m always going to protect kids, of course… I would insert myself into that situation.” (02:20)
  • Dave cautions intervention: “If the two of you go over there at two years into this… you are changing the trajectory of the next 40 years.” (03:46)
• Action Steps Proposed:
  • Wife should separately talk to her parents and inquire about the situation non-confrontationally.
  • Do NOT give more cash; instead, offer to pay for financial coaching or budgeting help.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Dave: “We only give into situations where we create a sustainable story. We don’t throw money at something that’s a hundred dollar problem with $5.” (07:01)

---

2. Co-Signing: Pathway to Enabling

(10:11 – 16:45 & 21:19 – 28:48)

• Caller Ann: Has been co-signing on her adult son’s condo since 2004; he hasn’t worked since April and refuses to sell the property.
• Discussion:
  • Dr. DeLoney: “He’s dragging his feet because he knows you’re going to pay for 20 years. You bailed him out.” (13:01)
  • Dave: “The trap is co-signing. You can’t get out… You’re either going to be an enabler or you’re not going to pay and then he’s going to get foreclosed on, which means you’re going to have a foreclosure on you.” (15:13)
• Advice:
  • Make him sell the condo to her so she can resell it and end the financial entanglement.
  • If he refuses, stop paying, even if it results in foreclosure. “Stop it. It’s time you put him out and let him figure out how to do life.” (17:15)
• Memorable Quote:
  • Dr. DeLoney: “You’re going to lose some money, but you’re also going to lose your relationship with your son. It's not worth it.” (16:07)
• Caller Judy: Wants to co-sign for a family member with mental health issues.
  • Hosts strongly advise against it, citing the high risk and the fact that her own brother (who controls the trust) refuses for known reasons.
  • Dave: “One lacking in sense co-signs for another. The Bible says you’re lacking in sense. Don’t do it.” (28:42)

---

3. You Can't Save for a House If You Have Car Debt

(28:55 – 32:03)

• Caller Kim: Struggling to save for a down payment while paying rent.
• Dave’s advice:
  • “Before you start worrying about saving for a down payment, let’s clear the debt off… Your most powerful wealth-building tool is your income. Don’t give it to somebody else.” (29:45)

---

4. New Businesses and Borrowing: Do Not Mix

(32:05 – 42:02)

• Caller Patrick: Wants to take a loan from a friend to develop a mobile app he’s “patent pending” on.
• Dave’s stance:
  • “We don’t borrow money and we don’t bring in outside investors…” (35:37)
  • Suggests alternative: Find a software engineer to partner for a share of proceeds, or save up and pay for development yourself.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Dave: “You sound so in a hurry and so chaotic and so desperate… that’s about the time I’m about to do something dumb.” (37:33)

---

5. Divorce, Debt, and Bad Deals

(43:24 – 53:04)

• Caller Thomas (18 years active duty): After divorce, went from debt-free to $57,000 in new debt due to buying a Ford Raptor and furnishing a house on credit cards; also confused about a divorce settlement that splits his retirement at 67.
• Hosts’ reactions:
  • “You have a truck you can’t afford that you bought while you were going through, grieving your broken heart…” (51:05)
  • “Sell your truck, get your budget back balanced, and move into the future. And please don’t put anything else in this TSP.” (51:48)
• Memorable moment: Hosts are stunned at the legal arrangement: “That’s the worst deal I’ve heard in my life. I've never even heard of ‘you get half at 67.’” (47:05)

---

6. Boundaries with Family

(54:03 – 62:32)

• Caller Abigail: Mother-in-law has a key, comes over, cleans, moves things, and husband refuses to confront her.
• Hosts’ advice:
  • Dave: “You don’t have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem. He needs to run down to Walmart on aisle three and pick up a backbone.” (55:09)
  • “This is out of line. The boundaries—there’s no boundaries here.” (56:57)
  • Counseling recommended if husband will not confront his mother.
• Memorable moment: Both hosts riff on “mother-in-law flex,” family boundaries, and the importance of “leave and cleave.”

---

7. Overcoming Financial Setbacks After Divorce

(76:10 – 85:46)

• Caller Corey: Lived with mother for 6 years after a divorce, paid off all debt, but feels stuck with rising rents and housing costs, unsure how to move out.
• Hosts help reframe:
  • “The secret to happiness is lower expectations. You’re trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do.” (78:27)
  • Dr. DeLoney: “What her kids have that I don’t think she’s recognized yet is they have a mom who’s a warrior, who is extraordinary. The greatest gift you can give your kids is letting them see you blaze a path.” (82:31)
• Action: Lower expectations, buy or rent what you can afford—even if it means kids share a room.

---

8. Family Loans Are Relationship Poison

(98:06 – 105:47)

• Caller Jake: At 24, he and wife are building a $450,000 home with parents’ help: half as a gift, half as a family mortgage.
• Hosts strongly warn:
  • “The surest way to blow up a good relationship is to have money in between you.” (100:49)
  • “Never make your grown child your slave… Even a nice master is a master.” (105:31)
• Recommendation: Jake should pay parents back with savings and get a bank loan if necessary, not mortgage with family.

---

9. Debt-Free Scream - Triumph Over Student Loans

(106:42 – 115:44)

• Rhonda and Dima from Durham, NC: Paid off $266,192 in 4 years, salaries grew from $138k to $284k, mostly student loans.
• Their keys to success:
  • Monthly budget meetings and paying cash only.
  • Sacrifices, like selling a car they loved.
  • “Being debt free was more important.” (110:45)
• Memorable moment:
  • “We can’t thank you enough. It’s a different vibe. What do we want to do now with our money?” (113:58)
  • Their debt-free scream: “3, 2, 1… WE’RE DEBT FREE!” (114:48)

---

10. When a ‘House Hack’ Turns into a Nightmare

(117:27 – 122:12)

• Caller Amberly: Regrets buying a duplex (partly rented out), is overwhelmed and debt-burdened.
• Hosts urge immediate action:
  • “If I have something I own that I hate as bad as you hate this, I want to kill it as soon as I can kill it, and I want it in my rear-view mirror as a distant memory of dumb things I’ve done.” (121:04)
• Action: Sell the property ASAP, rent, and give yourself breathing room before buying again.

---

Additional Key Takeaways

• Co-signing is “the ultimate enabling,” tying your finances and credit score to someone else’s inability to pay (17:36).
• Don’t feel trapped by geography or expectations—live where you can afford and shift your standards.
• Debt freedom unlocks new choices and honest living: “I always wondered… how much do you have to curb what you really believe… because you owe somebody money? Now you can be unfiltered—you've been unleashed.” (112:32)
• Student loan ROI: Ensure your degree justifies the cost; don’t chase advanced degrees unless needed and affordable (123:09+).

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “You can’t build wealth and carry other people’s problems at the same time.” —Dave Ramsey (summary of entire episode)
• “Normal is broke; common sense is weird.” —Dave Ramsey (00:27)
• “Co-signing is not an act of love. It’s enabling, and it locks you in.” —Dr. John DeLoney (17:36)
• “We only give when we can create a sustainable story. Otherwise, we’re just throwing money into a hundred-dollar problem with five bucks.” —Dave Ramsey (07:01)
• “You don’t have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem.” —Dave Ramsey (54:41)
• “Never make your grown child your slave… Even a nice master is a master.” —Dave Ramsey (105:31)
• Debt-free scream: “3, 2, 1… WE’RE DEBT FREE!” —Rhonda & Dima (114:48)
• “If it’s killing you, get rid of it—even if it was a mistake. Kill it fast, and let it be a distant memory of dumb things you’ve done.” —Dave Ramsey (121:04)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:27] Children being exploited for parents’ financial problems
• [10:11] The destructive trap of co-signing for adult children
• [21:19] Should you ever co-sign for family—why the answer is “no”
• [32:05] Don’t borrow to fund a startup
• [43:24] Divorce, debt, and disastrous legal advice
• [54:03] Family boundaries and backbone: the mother-in-law dilemma
• [76:10] Getting unstuck after divorce and housing struggles
• [98:06] Family loans and “the kind of help that ruins relationships”
• [106:42] Debt-free scream: Real-world triumph over massive loans
• [117:27] Regretful “house hacking”—when to sell and move on

---

Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in boundaries and self-responsibility, from refusing to enable family members to acting quickly to fix your own financial mistakes. Don’t drown in other people’s problems—clean up your side of the street, say “no” to enabling, and let your money become a tool for freedom. As Dave puts it, "You can't build wealth and carry other people's problems at the same time."

---

Transcript

[George Camel]

George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the Money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learned today and put it to work in every dollar, download the app and start for free. Today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio this is the Ramsey Show. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality number one best selling author and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network the Dr. John DeLoney Show. He is my co host Today Cody is in Nebraska. Hi Cody, how are you?

[Caller]

You know Dave, I am better than I deserve.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you better than I deserve? What's up?

[Caller]

Well guys, I'm going to start off a little bit of a doozy here so I do apologize but my wife and I have just recently found out that her parents are asking my wife's sisters that are under 18 for money for basic bills. We don't really know. You know I've heard in the past you guys say like don't say anything unless they come to you and ask for help or guidance. We're just kind of stuck because you know my sister in laws are 10, 12 and then 17 so I'm just kind of, we're kind of confused on what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much money do they have?

[Caller]

Well so my, so the younger sister in laws they were you know working over the summer. So basically what happened was, is you know my sister, my 10 year old sister in law told us that well mom and dad kept saying that we don't have enough money for groceries this month and blah blah blah. So I offered him my $400 that I got from dog sitting and they took it for groceries. And then our or my 17 year old sister in law came over two weeks ago and said that they had quote unquote borrowed $1,000 from her for bills for last month to cover.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is this true? Are they struggling that bad?

[Caller]

I, I, I would, I would say so, yes. It's been talked about. You know a couple months ago my wife overheard that they're like $10,000 short a month. He, my father in law owns his own business and it's been, I know it's been struggling for quite a while.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I, I want to put things in order. I have you hear us say on the all the time you can't help family unless they come ask you. But before that I'm always going to protect kids of course and if you got a 10 year old that's coming to you saying, dad is saying, I don't have enough money for groceries, I need your dog sitting money. Then I would, I personally, I would insert myself into that situation.

[Caller]

Okay, okay. And that's what we were thinking because you know, it's, it's really hard for me to have respect for people like that, that, you know, they are in a situation where they rely on everybody else to get them out of their problems. They blame everybody else except for themselves. A lot of this is self cause just based off their, their career choices that they've had. So it's hard for me to have respect. It's hard my wife to have respect as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how long have you, how long have you been worried?

[Caller]

It'll be two years in February.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm gonna take back what I said. I would have your wife call, not you.

[Caller]

But okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. And I think she. Yeah, because here's the thing. If the two of you go over there at two years into this and insert yourself in this situation, you are changing the trajectory of the next 40 years.

[Caller]

Of course. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not simply the situation. Yes. What you're describing is 100% disgusting. I'm not questioning that at all. And if they were abusing the children physically, we would just turn them over to children's services, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not be that simple because we're just not going to allow that to happen. They're just abusing them financially. And so I think, but I don't think your wife, your wife's what, 20 something years old?

[Caller]

Yeah, she's, she's 23.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If she sits down with her mom and dad and says, y' all need to stop this, y' all need to become responsible adults. My guess is it's about a zero percent chance that that's going to have any impact.

[Caller]

110%.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you show up saying I don't respect you guys, they're going to take it out of their house. That's not going to help either.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's a 40 year, that's a 40 year long discussion. I'm trying to think. In other words, what will work is more what I'm thinking about.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What Dave, tell me if I'm wrong. So my thought is when I, when I say insert myself into that, it would be your wife calling mom and dad and saying, can we talk? And she's got to be careful because the backlash could come down on a 10 year old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. But we just heard in My.

[Caller]

Sorry, go ahead in. My idea at first was like, you know, my wife, I told her, I was like, what if you, like, take your mom out to coffee and be like, you know, mom, we've heard some of this stuff from, you know, my sisters. Like, how bad is it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it really, Is that really happening? Are y' all really that bad? Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And is, is there, is there ways we can help or is there ways we can support you or is there education? They may say, absolutely not. And then it's about giving your, your niece or your sister in law, if you will, a safe place that she always knows she's loved somewhere else. But that's just gonna, she's gonna have eight years of mom and dad borrowing money.

[Caller]

Exactly, exactly. And you know, that's our fear because, you know, they're setting the kids up for just a lifelong.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but you're 25. You're 24. I would stay out of that for right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's not, that's not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's actually not true either. It's a, it's a bad. It's a bad on ramp to life, but it's not an on ramp that can't be corrected. A lot of us have bad on ramps. Yeah. And then we get the opportunity to meet Jesus and change our life. Okay, so then those kids have got the same thing. They're not being physically abused.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So let me refer. When I say insert myself, I don't mean you flex and put on a sleeveless shirt and go bang on the door. I, I think, I think your wife taking mom out for coffee, taking dad out and saying, hey, we just happen to hear this. H, I'm worried about y'.

[Dave Ramsey]

All.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How, how.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm worried about my sisters. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How bad is it?

[Caller]

Definitely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then y' all two have a hard conversation about could you help? Will you help? And all that. Because the next question is going to be, well, can we have $500? And y' all already have that predetermined discussion before she heads into that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, go ahead and I'll give you the answer to that. No, because they're saying they're $10,000 short a month. So I'm not throwing good money after bad. So we only give. Ramsey's only give into situations where we create a sustainable story. We don't throw money at something $5 at something, that's a hundred dollar problem. That's not. You're not creating a sustainable story, then you've got to fix the problem. You got to get down under it. And so that's going to involve maybe what I would pay is for them to get with a Ramsey coach. And the Ramsey coach boxes her ears and says, you have to sell the three cars. You guys, you cannot afford these stupid cars. You can't afford to live in that house. Oh, maybe you need to get a job because your life, your business is not a business. It loses money. It's called a hobby. And so no, we're going to have to, you know, these types of things are going on under the scene because if they're $10,000 short, the thousand dollars from the 17 year old or the $400 from the 10 year old doesn't fix it. Nor does $500 from you fix it. So don't do that. But do say, I'll cheer you on. I'll help you do a budget. I'll connect you with some people and pay for it for you to get some coaching to get yourself out of this. You've struggled with this your whole life. I've watched you. I'm your daughter and you know, I'd love for you to be free from these demons.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you and I have talked about this before on the air, but parents don't like hearing money advice. If she sits down and says, y' all need to start, that's not going to go well. But that idea of sitting down saying, hey, I'm worried about you, how bad is it? Are you all okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

We are. And then tell them your story, that's a different avenue. Yeah. We are on a budget and it's giving us great peace. We have sold some stuff to be able to get in, get our, our income in line with our outgo and it's given us great peace. And if I could ever help you get with our coach, we'll show you how to do that, that kind of thing.

[George Camel]

Hey guys, it's George Camel and I've got a hot tip to save you some serious cash this holiday season. Shop Aldi free first. Aldi has everything you need for holiday get togethers. I'm talking charcuterie boards, holiday sides, desserts without the large price tags. You'll get fresh, high quality food while keeping your budget off the naughty list. Because Aldi has the lowest prices of any national grocery store. It's true. Families are saving up to $4,000 a year just by making Aldi their go to, which means more money for stocking stuffers. So find a store near you@aldi us that's a L D I savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doctor John DeLoney, Ramsey personality is my co host and is with us in New Orleans. Hi Ann, how are you?

[Caller]

Hello. I'm fine.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our honor, how can we help?

[Caller]

Okay, my question is. My husband and I. My ex husband and I were a co signer on my son's condo back in 2004 and since that time he is on a. My son is unable to pay his mortgage because he's unemployed. He lost his job just 2004. No, no, no. We purchased the condo in 2004. This past April he lost his job and sent. And he's been unable to pay the mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many times did you pay it since 2004?

[Caller]

Oh, it's happened before. About 10 years ago he ran into trouble paying his mortgage and he was able to do a forbearance. And of course I assisted financially at that time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you keep using the word unable. Is he unable or is he unwilling?

[Dave Ramsey]

Now why do you not have a job?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One of my best friends in the world is a paraplegic. He is unable.

[Caller]

No, no. He's physically capable. He has not. And he has not found a job since April. He says he's looking one of the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hottest on the hottest hiring markets in history. He's chosen not to work.

[Caller]

I guess so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, let's use. I just want to be. I just want to call a spade a spade because it helps us make decisions. Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Now.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Understand you're still on the mortgage.

[Caller]

Yes, we. My ex husband and I are co signers. So we're responsible for paying the note if he does not.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he's not been paying it.

[Caller]

Yes. So I have been paying it since April. My ex husband made about 3 of the mortgage payments. So now I want to know what would be the best avenue for me to convince my son to sell it, let it go for foreclosure. And I told him, or else you get a job and you pick up the payment. But I don't want it to go to foreclosure because I don't want it to affect my credit. I haven't. My credit rating is 820.

[Dave Ramsey]

Every time it's paid late it affects your credit.

[Caller]

Yes, I understand. So I just don't know if there's any options for me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is he on the note at all? Is he on the note?

[Caller]

He's my. My son is the owner of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he's on the note. She's also Signer. Yeah, yeah. You can't force him to sell it. You can just talk him into selling it. Will he sell it if you tell him to?

[Caller]

No, he's dragging his feet about that. He really didn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, he's dragging his feet because he knows you're going to pay for 20 years. You bailed them out.

[Caller]

Yes, I understand that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you've probably given him some stern talking tos over the last 20 years.

[Caller]

Yes, I have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You still paid it, so. Yeah, he's dragging his feet because you taught him how to. I think you have to sit down and say, I'm not paying this rent. I. Dave, I'll leave it to you. I mean, it's going to. It's going to ruin your.

[Caller]

You're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're. You're gonna get foreclosed on if he gets foreclosed. Yeah, that's how this works.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So can you afford to buy him out?

[Caller]

I could, but I. I just don't know what my best options are. Because if I buy. If I. If he would sell me the condo, then it's mine. Right. For me to do what I want with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. And then you can. Then you just sell it. Then he. You sell it and.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Resell and get your money back out. And at least that way you didn't lose anything. Yeah. You could just say, all right, let's get appraised. I'm gonna buy it from you, and then you put it on the market and sell it. That's what's best for you. That is unbelievably aggravating. And it's not necessarily what's best for him. What's best for him is to experience some pain. But. But he's not going to in this scenario unless you do. That's the problem with co signing. You get to experience the pain with.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Him, and he's going to play chicken with you. And you've got a lot more to lose than he does financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right?

[Caller]

Yes, I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What's the. What's the condo worth?

[Caller]

Maybe about 40,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Worse.

[Caller]

45. No, I would. Well, in the.

[Dave Ramsey]

He would be.

[Caller]

He would be lucky if he could get 60 for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my God. What do you owe on it?

[Caller]

30.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And he's got 11 more years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, go, go, go. Tell him that, you know, he can no longer screw up your life with his laziness. He needs to sell you this condo. Even if you buy it for whatever, have a real estate agent give you an appraisal, buy it for that amount, put it back on the market and resell it and he needs to move.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That protects you for some reason. I thought this was a $600,000 condo. It's a $60,000. Yeah. You may lose a couple thousand bucks here or there by moving all this gyration around, but you need to get out of this trap you put yourself in. And the trap is co signing. You can't get out of the trap. You're either going to be an enabler or. Or you're not going to pay. And then he's going to get foreclosed on, which means you're going to have a foreclosure on you, and then they're going to come around looking for all of you wanting some money out of y'. All. Because the condo won't bring enough at repo to even cover the old mortgage on it. But it's a piece of crap condo to start with.

[Caller]

Ann, I'm sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Will you forgive yourself for the divorce finally?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're still trying to make that right with him. Stop. It's 20 years.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're going to lose. You're going to lose some money, but you're also going to lose your relationship with your son. It's not worth it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I would buy it from him, have him move out and turn around, put it right back on the market and sell it. And if you lose a little bit that way, that gets you out of this trap. And then you have a standalone relationship with your son. That's mother son that is no longer co signer because co signer is putting a strain on everything. It's making you do things you're not. You don't feel good about, and it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Makes you resent your son. Every time that phone rings, you. You feel your chest tighten up because what's he going to ask? Like it's. It's altered your relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's he going to ask for now? Yeah, this time because you're aggravated with him like we are for being lazy not working since April. My God, how much does it take to pay the condo note on 30,000 bucks. I mean, you can. You can like, do Uber one day a month and pull this off. This is about the laziest human I've run into.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's pretty rough.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, really? Yeah. Think about it. I mean, it's not like it's a lot of money. I don't even know how the boy's eating. Oh, yeah, I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And yeah, Ann's making sure he's got groceries.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So Ann, you Gotta stop it. It's time you put him on the. Put him out and let him figure out how to do life and just love him from a distance that doesn't include your checkbook for the rest of his life. And that's the biggest favor you can do him and yourself and moms and dads out there. Never, ever co. Sign.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not an act of love. It's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the ultimate enabling. And it locks you into enabling because out of self preservation, you have to cover the stupidity of the other party.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What about this, Dave? I'm trying to think of how this situation for her could go wrong. Is there a moment when. And again, I know I'm speaking in ratios here, but $50,000 against what Ann has is not a lot of money. Can she buy this thing and hand it over to him and walk and dust her hands off? Walk away. Is that too much enabling?

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't do that. No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I think. I think it's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think he's not going to move is what I thought. Or he's not going to sell it to his mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, then I would just take the pain of being foreclosed on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You would I?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just stop. Okay? You're either going to sell it to me or the days of me giving you money are done. They're over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's what I'm getting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Either you're going to. Either you're going to sell this to me or you're going to have to figure it out. Okay, I'm done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because that's. This is so bad for him. Yeah, she stunted his emotional growth. I mean, he's six years freaking old.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't get a job since April to pay condo notes on 30, 000 bucks. This is lame. Yeah, this is really a lame.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Especially we talk to elementary school teachers trapped in a New York apartment during COVID who pay off six figures because they drive and scratch and claw and flip and do whatever they got to do. Yeah, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's tough. Man could sell enough clothing out of his closet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Plasma Simon sale. Get plasma your way to that one.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just not any money. So. Yeah, honey, you got it. You got to get him free of you. And you got to get free of him in order to have a decent relationship with him and in order for him to ever be a real man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's going to cost you that precious 820 that you really. You're really proud of. It's going to cost You. Who cares about that? Let that stupid thing go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my gosh. Now Condo's never been laid. You paid it on time.

[Caller]

Every time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Every time.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's never been late. It wouldn't be 820. This is the Ramsey Show. Running a business is already complicated. You don't have time to become a health insurance expert too. And when you're self employed, there's no HR department to lean on. But that's where my friends at Health Trust Financial come in for for over 20 years they've been helping families and small business owners cut through the confusion and find the right health insurance plan for their stage of life and budget. Health Trust Financial offers unbiased advice and there's never any pressure. Health Trust Financial helps you shop smarter and avoid overspending. Most of their clients save hundreds of dollars every month. Real savings you could put back into your business or toward building wealth. I've worked with them for over two decades and they're the only Ramsey trusted health insurance advisors. So get clear on your options and talk to a real person who can help you make confident decisions about your health coverage. Go to healthtrustfinancial.com today. That's healthtrustfinancial.com. Doctor John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Judy is in Los Angeles. Hi Judy, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hi. I am a longtime listener and first time caller.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'm on baby step six and I listen to your show all the time. And you recommend never to co sign for someone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Correct.

[Caller]

I'm in the situation. What I do want to cosign for somebody under a certain circumstance. So my husband's cousin, first cousin, she's been on Section 8. Anyway, she lost that. Now she's in her 60s, she needs to get an apartment. There is a special needs trust that her parents have set up for her and in order for her to get into an apartment she needs to have someone co sign or her brother who is the trustee refused to do so.

And I was wondering, Warning, warning.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would her brother who loves her more than you do, he's her brother for God's sakes, not want to co sign.

[Caller]

He doesn't love her. He actually doesn't mind if she goes home. Yes. No, that's true. I don't believe it is totally true. It's from a very dysfunctional family. He's not willing. His wife is telling me he's willing to let her go homeless if I have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

There is more to this story than you are telling or believing.

[Caller]

Well, she's she has a problem. She has personality disorder. That's right. Okay. She's in her 60s, she's never worked in her life.

She always.

Section eight.

She lost that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Who, who is the, who is the custodian of, of the special needs trust.

[Dave Ramsey]

Her brother.

[Caller]

Her brother.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So will you have access to the funds for this apartment or does she have access to the funds?

[Caller]

Right. So what I'm going to ask if it's okay if that works. If you agree that, you know, right thing for me to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not.

[Caller]

I can try to ask the brother for 14 months of pay in an account to me and then I will transfer that to her monthly. Is that okay? Funding is available for a whole year. Is it safe for me to co sign?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wouldn't. What if she trashes the place?

[Caller]

She, well she won't trash the place, but she might, you know. No, she's not like that. But she will. She might have trouble with neighbors.

That's the only, that's the kind of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Problem she has or gets kicked out or there's four. Has four people over or gets sweet.

[Caller]

Talked more people over. She'll just like she loves cats. She'll probably, you know, take care, break all the rules.

[Dave Ramsey]

Rules don't apply. Rules don't apply to her. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And Judy, we're going to tell you no. If this money's available, then she can get the apartment under her name. You can write the checks every month for her. If she can't do that, that's fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you don't need to.

[Caller]

But how do I prove to the apartment people that there's money available?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you would have to have the money available. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Print off a statement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And can I show, do I show them?

What do I do?

Because we're in California, there's a lot.

Of these places and I don't live.

In the same town as she does. So it's not easy for me to like take her somewhere and talk to someone you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you get on the phone with the apartment manager and you say this is what's going on. She has a special needs trust. Brother's going to send you documentation. He's going to end the documentation, send it to the property manager and say we'll set aside the first 14 months and go ahead and just prepay the rent for 14 months. That's fine too.

[Caller]

Oh, just prepay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you don't co sign and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They'Re going to try to get you.

[Dave Ramsey]

To co sign because you have a blind spot here, kiddo. This lady, she's gotten a hold of your heart, and she's sweet, and she does need someone to help her. But we need to define help very carefully. Help involves her behaving, and you're not willing to make that requirement, nor can you make that guarantee based on her 60 years of misbehavior.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna get screwed if you do this. Please don't do it, okay? It's gonna go up in flames.

[Caller]

Okay, so I told the apartment that I have money, but I need to show some proof, right, to the trust.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, the. The brother's gonna have to send documentation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by the way, you don't have this money, Judy. You still have to go through a guy that you say doesn't even love her, doesn't care about her, doesn't care if she ends up on the street.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So all of this is like two hypotheticals removed from reality.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let me help you with this, okay? It's not that he doesn't love her. It's from the 16 times he tried to help her and it burned him. And he's done being burned, so he's putting up a boundary that's different than not loving. And you got. You're calling it not love in a dysfunctional family. I'm calling her a dysfunctional person who needs love and help but has burned everything around her to the ground. To the point her own brother won't help her. You can't put that on him. I'm not going to let you do it. I don't even know him. And I'm not going to let. He's not the jerk in this story, and there's not a jerk in this story. There's a sad lady with mental illness, and you're going to get burned to the ground when her mental illness activates. If you're signed on the documents.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I don't sign. Just, I don't know, an apartment complex that won't take your check if. If you got it. So if they won't take your money so she can get her own place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, I'm a landlord. If I know what's going on here, I'm not putting her in there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's fair.

[Caller]

That's fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because prepaying the rent ain't half my problem. It's the 93 cats that end up in my building.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right? Or all the neighbors or whatever.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or she burns the neighbor's cat live in the front yard. I don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know I don't know what's going on with her. No, I don't want her as a tenant under any circumstances. Co signer, prepaid, double paid? No, thank you. Life's too short to sign up for drama as a landlord. So that's what you're going to. That's what you're going to face on more than anything else. So you're. Please, honey, don't. Don't confuse this. And you're trying to do a nice, good, noble thing in a really naive and unwise way. That was. That was kind of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's the best way to say it. And I. I think this is a bigger conversation, Dave. When you want to help somebody and you get all these scenarios in your mind and then you spend all these nights and weeks worrying about it. All of this phone call could have been already headed off. You could have already sat down with your brother. You could have already called an apartment complex and taken all these worrying variables off the table so that you know. Okay, here's the final step here. And you probably would have found out a long time ago. You either don't need to do it be a coastliner, or nobody's gonna let her live there. You have to come up with another option. Right? But there's always like, well, then I might do this, and then after that I'm gonna do. You don't even know if all this is. Is gonna happen and you're so spun up about it, just go find out.

[Dave Ramsey]

I co signed for stuff when I was young and foolish and I ended up paying it. One poor guy co signed for me. I went bankrupt. He ended up paying it. I had to go back and pay him later. His wife still don't like me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

35 years later. So it's okay. It's valid. I mean, she got screwed. They didn't ultimately get. But I mean, she thought she did. And so I get it. I completely get it. Proverbs 17:18 says in the scripture, one lacking in sense. Co signs for another. When I co signed Judy, I was lacking in sense. If you co sign this, the Bible says you're lacking in sense. I didn't say I get mad at God. Don't do it. That was pretty good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, you kind of brought the Bible out, so there you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. Brought the Bible out. Yeah. That's the final. Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the final one.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the one. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Kim is. Hi, Kim, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking My call, sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I wanted to know how to save money for mortgage down payment while you're paying rent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very hard.

[Caller]

It is, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you. How much debt have you got?

[Caller]

I can go through the numbers and I can tell you just.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt have you got? Just give me the total.

[Caller]

I want to say about 40,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much of that's your car?

[Caller]

Well, to me, my husband's together, it's about. He owes six, I owe 16 and he owes about 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much is the car?

[Caller]

My car. Total with the insurance. Just insurance or just the car?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, the debt on the car. How much debt is on the car?

[Caller]

About 16.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Of your 40 or of your. Yeah, of your 40. So half of it's your car. Okay, so here's the simple answer. But it's not a simple answer is when you don't have any debt payments, you'll have more room in your budget. So before you start worrying about saving for a down payment on a house, let's clear the debt off. That may mean selling a car. It may mean taking an extra job. It will mean not eating out. It will mean not going on vacation so that I can get out of debt. Because if you didn't have any payments, oh, you'd have money to save for your down payment. That's where it comes from. Your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. Don't give it to somebody else and then you'll have it to save for a down payment. Simple but hard. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive. Between gifts, travel and about a thousand limited time offers, your budget can start feeling anything but merry. And that's why I love this. Boost Mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now, you'll pay just 10 bucks a month for your first two months. Then only 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk, text and data. Forever. No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense. Just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. So stop stressing over your budget and start saving. Instead, go to boostmobile.com Ramsey and unwrap the savings today. That's boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Patrick's in Fort Worth. Hi, Patrick. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing good, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can I help?

[Caller]

Hey, I've got a question. I've got a question. I've got a patent pending on a mobile application and I'm wanting to raise funds to get my MVP off the ground. Right. And I've had a friend of mine offer to give me a loan to do this. But I've been listening to you since I was 12 years old. Lost everything last year in a divorce. Literally everything. And I'm wanting to go back up, but I don't want to give up my entire percentage of my company and getting with a traditional investor and I really don't have access to judicial investors. So I'm just kind of curious because it's kind of hard to crowdfund with a patent pending also. So I'm just kind of curious what you might have on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so remind me again what the patent is on.

[Caller]

Okay. It's on a mobile application.

[Dave Ramsey]

A mobile application?

[Caller]

Like a phone application?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Phone app.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like an app for your phone. Why do you have to have a patent for a phone app?

[Caller]

Well, it's just, it's just something new that is. Well, I mean it's a. I mean.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'Re going to put it in the Apple Store and you're going to put it in the Google Play Store and people are going to download it onto their phone.

[Caller]

Right, right. It's a new and novel idea that nobody has ever put into play before. I mean my.

[Dave Ramsey]

Literally, you don't need a path for that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is it a copyright?

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need a patent for that?

[Caller]

No, no. He told me I couldn't copyright it, but basically it would make it to where that somebody else couldn't redo that app. They couldn't make a, they couldn't make another, you know, because there you can have started the process to patent a process in the app.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so how much are you spending to get the patent pending?

[Caller]

So that's already, I've already paid that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're done. Okay, so you've got, so why do you need money to launch something in the Apple Store? It doesn't cost anything.

[Caller]

Well, well, the, in order to get the, in order to get the, the actual application built, the mvp, the minimum viable product and, and to build that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you've not built the app yet?

[Caller]

No, I just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Patent pending.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The idea or the technology?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, the technology is not done.

[Caller]

It's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Are you not a programmer? You're not an engineer?

[Caller]

I'm not, no. No. I, I've been on my own since I was 16 years old. I bought my first business at 24. I bought and Sold several different businesses. I mean, I've. But I lost everything last year, and I'm just starting over.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so all you need is the engineering done.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

You need a software engineer, right?

[Caller]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's it gonna cost to turn this into idea, into an app?

[Caller]

The lowest quote I've got is around 24,000. 24 to $35,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You know, we've built a bunch of apps here. We've got apps all in the store. I mean, I've put them up, taking them down. I've. We've got a little thing called the EveryDollar app that we've got a lot more than that invested in, obviously, but we've also got tens of millions of people in it and all that. But even out of the gate, we had more than that in it. So I'm just trying to think how we would do it, because I don't borrow money and I don't bring in outside investors. You know that you said you've been listening.

[Caller]

I don't want to give up. I don't want to give up.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't do it. What I would do.

[Caller]

I mean, he even told me he would give it to me at 5%, but I don't want to take a loan.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. What part of no?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've been listening to us. You knew I was going to tell you not to do any of this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's your panic? Like? What's the. You feel panicked? Are you about to get beat to market or something? If you hold a patent, can't you exhale and go earn 30,000 bucks?

[Caller]

Well, the thing is, is. Yes. I have probably eight to nine months left of the. Of the status. My lawyer, he wants to do. He wants to do a non provisional, which potentially could be 20 years protected. Right. My uncle was an engineer. Not in mobile stuff, but like, he. That's how he made his money. He invented like one of the largest crash compact engines in the United States. I've run by the seat of my pants in business.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you. What do you. Yeah, I know. I can tell.

[Caller]

What.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do? You have a job?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm a truck driver. So I've always got my CDL and I've. I've bought and sold three different semi trucks, but I lost. I lost almost $400,000 income last year during the divorce, and I was paying $3,000 a month in child support, and it just ate me alive. I did have $15,000 in debt in that, but I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let me stop you. There's something in this situation that smells to high heaven of desperation. Like, you sound so desperate.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You called it an application when you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Talking to us, and it's not. It's like an app. It's a phone app, for God's sakes. This is not rocket surgery. And you sound so in a hurry and so chaotic and so desperate and all of those things. Tell me you're getting ready to do something really stupid. Because every time I get that sound in my voice like a beagle chasing a rabbit, that's about the time I'm about to do something dumb. And I can hear it on you. I'm just being honest with you. All right, so what I would tell you to do. What I would tell you to do is this. I would tell you, slow your butt down. Take a breath. Okay? That's what I'm going to tell you to do. And then if you want to proceed with this, the only idea that comes to mind structurally, on how to pull this off is to find a good software engineer and tell them you will pay them double their rate out of the proceeds. And so if this thing is really a big deal, okay, you know, it's $24,000 worth of stuff, I'm gonna pay you $48,000. The first 48,000 that we make on this, I'm gonna pay you out and I'm gonna pay you double, and then they're done. And the problem is, as soon as you get the thing up, and here's what I'll teach you about apps. They're not one and done. You can't ship it and forget it. 100% of apps that go out that are successful are constantly being worked on and iterated. The negative thing about digital is you have to constantly work on it. The great thing about digital is you get to constantly make it better so you're not frozen. When I print a book, it's either good or bad. I'm stuck with it. It's on the shelf for the next 40 years. It's a printed book. When I put something out in the digital world, I can change it tomorrow and I can change it the next day, and I can change it the next day and make it better as I go along. And I will. And so the EveryDollar budgeting app does not even resemble the app that was launched under the name everydollar originally. It has iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded almost every other week for years. And so your software engineering Costs have just begun, my friend. If this is actually going to work and be successful, your patent stuff is probably early and tremendous overkill. You know, the number of times that people steal something on an Apple Store is just not that big. It doesn't happen much except the Chinese steal and stuff. Right. And duplicating it. But I mean, I'm talking about the number of times that someone just comes in, scarfs up an idea that because you didn't have it patented. So you know, it's, you know, I don't, I'm pretty sure none of the budgeting apps out there that are the top budgeting apps are patented just to give you an idea. And of course, here's the other thing. As soon as you patent it, you're going to iterate it and change it. So then you got to update the dadgum. Yeah, this is. I don't know. Yeah, I do know. I would slow down, breathe. If you want to involve a software engineer and pay them 1.5 or pay them 2.0 what they're worth. But they only get paid out of the proceeds and if there are never any proceeds, they get nothing. If it never works, they put in their money for nothing. If they want to join the venture for some extra money, that might be a way to draw somebody in. But the other thing you could do is you just could go make some money like John said and then just write somebody a check to have the first round of software engineering done. But be prepared. As soon as you start making a little money, you're going to spend most time of the of that back into new software engineering because you're going to upgrade and iterate. Upgrade and iterate. You do not ship it and forget it in the digital world, my friend. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz.

[Rhonda]

The holidays are here, which means family time, giving back and remembering what the season is all about.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let's be real. It also means shopping y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're anything like me, December gets.

[Rhonda]

Really busy and really expensive.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's harder to stay intentional with your spending. And that's why I love shopping on.

[Rhonda]

Amazon, especially this time of year. Named the lowest priced US online retailer.

[Dave Ramsey]

For nine years running by Profitero, a third party analytics and research firm.

[Rhonda]

Amazon's prices are up to 14% lower.

[Dave Ramsey]

Across top categories and and beat competitors.

[Rhonda]

By up to 5% in key gift categories. Between amazing deals, stress free shopping and fast shipping, Amazon makes gift giving simpler, the holiday season a little brighter and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Helps me keep my budget in check.

[Rhonda]

That Allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more could a busy mom ask for?

[Dave Ramsey]

So for more information about Amazon's low prices and easy affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon today. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair winds credit union studio. Dr. John Deloney, number one person, number one best selling author.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm the number one personality.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're the number one person. That's it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'll take it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're all of that. And number one show on the Ramsey networks. Not really, but a big show on the Ramsey Networks. He's number one everywhere in his mind. So check it all out. He's here to help me this hour since my mouth is apparently not working. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Thomas is in South Dakota. Help us. Thomas. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey Dave. Hey John. What's going on? I'm calling today because I'm 18 years active duty, military.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you.

[Caller]

Unfortunately. Thank you. Unfortunately, a couple years ago life happened and I ended up getting divorced. With that. Before we got divorced, my ex wife and I, we were completely debt free and I was able to contribute 60% of my income towards investments.

[Dave Ramsey]

Holy.

[Caller]

40% was going to my TSP and another 20% was going to my kids college funds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

But now that I'm divorced, I've been divorced now for two years. I have found myself accumulating a little bit of debt. I'm back at $57,000 worth of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

What in the world? What did you buy in two years?

[Caller]

So I bought a vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of truck is it?

[Caller]

It's a Ford Raptor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I think we found the problem, Thomas.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's definitely part of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's the whole.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's all of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Taylor Swift wrote a song about your divorce. Raptor truck. We know what it is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's called I'm the problem Me.

[Caller]

So I'm calling because I can pay this debt off pretty quickly. What do you make about $78,000 a year?

[Dave Ramsey]

You make 78 a year and you owe what on the Raptor?

[Caller]

I owe 57. Yeah, well I owe 37 on the raptor and 18,000 in credit card debt that I used to purchase furniture and stuff for the house. I got divorced.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right.

[Caller]

I still contribute the 60% of my income towards my TSP.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't afford to do broke.

[Caller]

So I was thinking, so my, my philosophy here and what I was looking for is some guidance. I was thinking about cutting off my tsp. However, in the divorce, my ex wife decided to go ahead. Hey, your whole military pension is yours. I just want half the tsp. I've still been contributing because in my head I was like, I'd rather make a little bit more money on the back end versus stop contributing altogether and out of spite, just not contribute because I don't want her to get.

[Dave Ramsey]

When does she get half? Now.

[Caller]

67.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, wait a minute. That's not possible. Is this divorce isn't final. Is.

[Caller]

Is. Yes, sir. So when we went to court, there was. I had several different options that I could do.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you agreed to give her half of your tsp at age 67.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not. Not what half of it becomes by then, but whatever's in there, it has. That's not right. Something's wrong.

[Caller]

That's based off of what the lawyers were saying and stuff. They said that was the better of the deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Apparently these lawyers didn't take math class. It's a horrible deal. All right, so you need to get clarification because I don't think you understand what really happened or you got the worst deal in the history of divorces.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've never heard of this deal. This is what you got.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is normal for you to transfer half of your TSP to her. Now, that is a normal process in a divorce. And she can roll that into an IRA and have no taxes. It is very strange for her to get anything at age 67. Like, I've never heard of this in 35 years of doing what I do. That's strange.

[Caller]

What they wanted to do was she would get half of my military pension on top of half of the psp.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that would be normal. But half the TSP today, not at 67.

[Caller]

Well, now with the deal that they had worked out was she doesn't get any of the military pension. She only gets the tsp.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, now or at 67.

[Caller]

At 67, when it matures.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then it should be half. What? How? Like you're half of your ts. How much is in your tsp today?

[Caller]

166.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so half would be 80. 84,000. 83,000. Okay. Right. Yes, today. So whatever 83,000 grows to at age 67, she should get. But she shouldn't get half of everything you put in between now and then because otherwise you would put in nothing between now and then.

[Caller]

Right. So that was going to be my next question is if I just stop contributing altogether.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have to contribute. Listen, if you did the worst deal in divorce history and she gets half of your TSP regardless of whether you Put money in or not. That's the worst deal I've ever heard of in my life. I've never even heard of. You get half at 67. That's just very weird, dude. Like, these lawyers are completely freaking incompetent weird. Okay, but if you did do that, you need to go back and clarify. Is it what half of it today becomes what 83,000 becomes at 67, or is it just half of whatever's in there? Because if it's half of whatever's in there, you don't put another dime in it. You're done with that. You got to go put money in a Roth IRA and you got to put money in other stuff, but the TSP's off limits to you because she's going to take half of everything you put in there for the next. You know. How many, how many. How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 36.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Good God. For 30 years you're going to contribute to her? No, thank you. You did the worst deal ever. So, no, we're not doing that. That's dumb. That's dumber than a rock, man. I'm telling you that. I'm so pissed at your lawyer right now, I can't see. I want to smack him. This is horrible. But you did the deal. I guess it's final. So you need to go back and get clarity. If she gets what half what 83,000 becomes, or if she gets half of whatever's in there, it's going to be whatever's in there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Otherwise, they would have just transferred the A3 out.

[Dave Ramsey]

They should have just transferred the 83 out. That's what they should have done. That would be normal instead of this dumb.

[Caller]

But so, yeah, John is correct. It is whatever's in there later. Because I tried to fight and get the half now, but then they were.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, okay, then here's what. Here's what it is. She gets hat what that half becomes, because it's not going to become anything else, because you're not going to add anything else to it. You're stupid if you do.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

But you are the one that signed this divorce decree also, so. Oh, my God. This is a horrible man. It's just horrible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

30 year claim on future earnings for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sheesh, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have kids?

[Caller]

We have two of them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've heard. I've heard a few.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is. I want to get away from this woman really bad. That's what this is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've heard. I've heard in a rightfully so a future claim on future earnings. If You've got kids through the age of 18, right? So if you were making 25 grand and suddenly you're making 150 grand, that's child support. That's not this.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's child support. That's normal.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's what I'm saying. I've heard of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's normal. But half the 401k is normal. Half the tsp is normal. But you transfer it now and it rolls out into an ira and then she goes, whatever she does with it. Okay, your answer is you have a truck you can't afford that you bought while you were to going grieving your broken heart. And you wrote your heart was broken by your wife and your idiot attorney. So you have two reasons for a broken heart. So you've got to sell this truck, honey. And I love raptors. I drove one over here today. I like them. But this truck is brain damage, so it's killing you. You cannot afford to drive this truck. It's more truck than you can afford with the money you make. Sell your truck, get your budget back balanced and move into the future. And please don't put anything else in this tsp. The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed. Living on a budget, staying out of debt, and building wealth intentionally. Now here's the deal. Most banks make their money when you don't do that. They're fine if you stay broke and frustrated. And that's why I recommend Fairwinds Credit Union. They actually want you to win with money. Their smart bundle gives you a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the new Ramsey be weird debit card that says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. It's not just a card, it's a statement. Because every time you use it, it you control your money. Your money doesn't control you. So this year, stick to your plan. Don't chase gimmicks or points, and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit Fairwinds.org Ramsey to take control of your money and stay weird.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCUA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Guys. Student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse. But our question of the day sponsor, why refi refinances defaulted debt private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate and you couldn't get anywhere else. So go to y refi dot Com. Ramsey. That's the letter Y R E F Y dot com. Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, today's question comes from Abigail in West Virginia. Abigail writes my in laws are too much to deal with. Specifically my mother in law, Abigail. She knows you wrote this.

[Dave Ramsey]

She.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know how mother in laws know. They just know. She has to stick her nose into everything. She has a key to our house, which was bought by my husband before we got married. She's folded our laundry, cleaned our house and moved stuff while we were not at home. Oh, man. I've asked my husband to talk to her, but he told me he couldn't do it and told me to chill out.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have a mother in law problem. You have a husband.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have a husband problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's a wuss.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

God almighty. That makes me so uncomfortable to think my mom would come over to our house. My mom's amazing. But my mom would come over and go through unsolicited. Go through our stuff without your permission. And even more uncomfortable is my wife said, I need this to not happen again. And I said, I can't do it. I can't do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm scared of my mommy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, my gosh, Abigail, you have a husband problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

He needs to run down to Walmart on aisle three and pick up a backbone.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And some Pampers while he's there because he might tt in his pants while he talks to mommy. Y' all need to have this con.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, this is awful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is awful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Mother in law is gonna do what? Here's the deal. I think if and maybe she's controlling, I'm gonna give her the benefit of the doubt. I think mother in law is trying to love her little baby the best she knows how.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's trying to be helpful and she's screwed up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. And she doesn't think you're loving him the same the right way. But she's not going to say anything. She's just going to keep doing it. And I think your cute little hubby is a gigantic 14 year old and he needs to grow up real, real quick.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So if you say a thing, you start a 10 year feud. You can't say a thing. The only thing you can do is encourage your husband to get have a backbone. And this is out of line. The boundaries are. There's no boundaries here. This is ridiculous and it needs to stop. Yesterday, tell him you want the locks changed and you want him to call his mother and tell her to not come in your home without clearing it with both of you first, that you're a married couple and this is weird and she shouldn't be doing this. Mom, we love you. Thank you for the help. You can't do this anymore. I've changed the locks. Your key's not good anymore and you don't need to come in our home anymore. It's a real short, calm conversation and he needs to man up and do that. If he cannot do that, you do not have a mother in law problem. You have a husband problem. And you'll need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct. And by the way to husband listening to this, you don't call your mom and say my wife, my wife doesn't want you coming in the house. No, you goober, you be a grown up and you say I, I messed up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Leave and cleave. That's right, leave your mother and father.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We need to figure out how to do these things on our own to your spouse, dude and mother in laws. Don't break into your kids homes and do their laundry for them unless, unless there's like a medical crisis or a newborn and they've asked for your help.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't do that. Even if there's a newborn and they ask for your help, you still ask permission?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, of course. But I mean that's if you've been.

[Dave Ramsey]

Invited with a key that you had before they were married. So one of the best practical jokes we ever played was a key. Have you heard this one?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

I had a personal assistant 25 years ago, beautiful Christian lady and she got engaged. So for her engagement party, all the guys, we took her to an ice hockey game in Nashville. And the, the announcer at the hockey game was a friend of mine. And so one of the guys in the office that was with us was about 10 guys, went all throughout the whole section and handed every guy a key. Went to the hardware store and got keys and the announcer said, cherie is getting married next week. Anyone that has a key to her apartment needs to bring it to her. And like 500 guys got up and started bringing keys to her. So it was such a wonderful practical joke. But yeah, that's much better than this one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This just makes me sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, this is bad. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, and can I tell you this one thing? So one time a friend of mine, they were having some family stuff and it was a, a couple friend of me and my wife's and we've known them forever and ever and ever and they were going through some like just Somebody passed away or something. And I said, hey, let's get them a house cleaner just to come in and clean up. And my wife looked at me and said, are you crazy? So what do you mean? She said, you know what that would feel like to me? If somebody came over to see us and then they hired someone to come clean my house?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it'd be like an insult.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Insult. And so I've got to say, mom, coming over to clean the house and do the laundry is a little bit of a flex, right? It's a little bit of a flex.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so it's like cooking the lasagna. It's like the recipe you got for lasagna.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not taking care of my little. My little boy the way he deserves to be taken care of. I'll come over and help. It kind of feels like Ray Romano's mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, it's like your underwear was folded wrong.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's. Yeah, I'm sorry, honey. I'll do it for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so, yeah, husband, grow up, mother in law flex.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable, Dave. I never feel uncomfortable. This one does.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is like, it's got. It's got a little stalker esque.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It does.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's got a key and she sneaks in like Keebler's elves or something and cooks and does the laundry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, because this kind of mother in law leaves a note that says, hey, I noticed things were messy, so I cleaned up and I vacuumed. Y' all have a great night. And it's just like a little flex. But if you say anything, it's like, oh, I was just trying to help. I'm so sorry. I won't help anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, right. Martyr out. Yeah, she'll definitely martyr the old.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, okay. There's some. There's some old Dairy Queen napkins in the glove box. I'll just eat those. Y' all just go eat wherever you want to. I'll just eat the old Kleenexes and I'll just sit in the car and be cold. And when y' all get done, y' all just come out.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's that, hey, I did run into a guy the other day that's opening a new food truck called wherever you want to go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because when everybody asks where they want to eat, wherever you want to go. Okay, we're heading. We'll go back there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

A great little honky tonk in Lubbock, Texas, called the library. We'd be like, where are you going? Going library.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. All Right. Boys and girls, boundaries are necessary. And I will admit that the hardest stage of parenting for me has been parenting children who are no longer in my control. It is the hardest stage to stay out of other people's business that are grown ups, even if they are from my flesh and blood. And so that does not matter. And I don't have any major issues. It's not like any of them are doing anything extremely stupid or something, but still, just not telling grown up people what they have to do. With your dad voice, it. It requires a little bit of discipline. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Even today, my son is studying for his first round of high school finals. He's a freshman. And I. I know the science of studying. I know the pedagogy of studying. I've been a high school and a college teacher for my whole career. And he's got to go through this first round of finals studying the way his. He rolls his eyes, says, dad, I know. Okay. And Right. And it's hard because I want to go in there and say this is the way he's got to learn this time. And then next time we'll be able to speak from a place of.

[Dave Ramsey]

I need some help.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Show me how to do this right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's hard. It's hard when you're. When the. Your precious little Johnny's underwear isn't folded right? Mother in law. It's Abigail's husband now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Abigail, Back up, back up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Be cool, be cool, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

She has to stick her nose into everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the move stuff while we weren't home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, that one's weird. Yeah, the came back, the furniture's rearranged.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's kind of like misery.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I was like. It's got a stalker esque thing to it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The penguin always faces north.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah.

[George Camel]

And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah.

[George Camel]

It's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive and but can't work, so it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[George Camel]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family.

[George Camel]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Doctor John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is the Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-255-2225. Thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate you being here. If you want to help us out, we can use the help. We really can follow the show on the format or the platform that you're listening or watching. Click, subscribe or click Follow. It really helps our numbers big time. And because it causes the show to be pushed forward with their algorithms and other people who don't know about it hear about it and it's the best promotion we get. And also you share the show. A lot of these apps and platforms have a share button or share feature and you can just send an episode to somebody and let them watch it or listen to it. I was listening to a podcast this week. A friend of mine was on. Tucker Carlson said, hey man, listen to this. And I sent it to another friend of mine just like that. And Tucker's got a great podcast that's going big. It's going zoom zoom right now, and so on. So listen to one of Joe Rogan's. It was going zoom, Zoom is really good. I sent it. You know, just share it. Just do. You know, anytime you read a good book, Jack Carr's got a new book out if the Terminal list, he's read every one of his. And so, yeah, I'm telling everybody, go get the new one. It's good. It's Very cool. So Falcons brought me a copy of Jack's new book. Have you seen it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I saw that he signed it and he shot it. Oh, I didn't see that.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's got a bullet hole in it. Fabulous. If you don't know Jack, he was a former seal and so these are all Navy SEAL books and they're like, you know, shoot them up, spy movie type stuff. And they're great books. Fiction, obviously, and. Yeah, but so it has a bullet hole in it. It's amazing. I may want to do that with my next book.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think that would be fantastic.

[Dave Ramsey]

Has absolutely nothing to do with the book, which his does, but I still want to do it anyway. Yeah, that's pretty cool. All right. Kathy's in Philadelphia. Hi, Kathy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hello. I'm calling today with a question I can hope or I hope you guys can help me with. My husband and I are considering putting in a solar array to offset our utility bill. And I was, I just wanted to like bounce the numbers off of you and see if it was a smart move with where we're at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Currently.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

So Hubs and I are like between baby steps five and six, I guess. Like, we have a substantial amount of money in savings, but we haven't earmarked that like specifically. This is child A, this is child B. There's their college fund. They're pretty young yet. 3 and 5. We feel like we've got some time to.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you would pay cash for the solar?

[Caller]

That's what we want to do. How much is it for the solar? The unit's about 53,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what is the, what's the break even on it?

[Caller]

They say they have it calculated out and we looked at the numbers, about eight years, we'd have it all back between like the ITC and our like state credits for Pennsylvania and SREC and those things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's borderline. I usually look for a five to a seven year break even. And most of the time that you see that, you're going to get that, it's going to be in a area of the country that is a lot of sun. So I mean, like, you know, Phoenix, Arizona type of a thing. That kind of thing. You're not going to. It's a little different than Philly, not Seattle, you know, that kind of stuff. So just think about what you got. I don't know the technical parts. What I do know from the financial side is I've been doing this for 35 years. I've watched the Solar panel efficiency as far as what's the break even, meaning what do you pay for it? How quickly can it convert the energy? How efficiently can it convert the energy, thus how fast it saves you money. I've watched the technology on that. It's probably five or 10 times better than it was 30 years ago. It's really come a long, long way. It used to just be total crap and now it's like I actually endorse solar companies in a couple of cities that we have talk radio on, you know, and I'm fine to do that as long I don't endorse financing it obviously. But, but generally I tell folks a 5 to a 7, your 8 is borderline. What I might do is see if they're selling you some bells and whistles, you could take off. That would still get you, that would get you down to the 40,000 range or so and that might get you to a six or a seven year break even. Maybe they got you, you know, with a convertible and power windows. I don't know. Right, right, right. You know, check that out, learn about that. That's what I would do if I were in this situation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I'd run one more company to have one more company come over and get a, give a bid and see what I'm saying?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a good idea.

[Caller]

We ran two companies and we actually have gotten from 75,000 down to 52,000, 3,000 by pitting them against each other. So we feel like kind of that's about where I. In a third company. But I feel like at this point, you know, if we've come down 25,000.

Almost, that's a good start.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a good start. They got some margin in that crap, huh? That's cool. Okay, so I knew they were making bank, but I'm a fan of the technology. I'm not a fan of the, you're not doing this. But for the rest of you out there that they really try to force a payment plan on you and go look, your payment is less than the amount you're going to save on your electric bill. No, that's dumb butt stuff. Because the things are attached to your house and then you got a mess. You got a lien on your property, you got. Got all kinds of mess. No, do not finance them ever. Do not finance anything ever. You're listening to Dave freaking Ramsey. Okay, so, but the, but you're not doing that. But that's for everybody else. The technology has come a long, long way. I will tell you this Kathy, I think it's going to go a long way further. So, like, if you sell your house in seven years or eight years, probably what's attached to your house is crap.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It'd be like you had a seven year old computer or a seven year old cell phone. You know how much further it's come along. That's the pace of change in the technology. And so don't think this is going to enhance the sale of your house. It's probably cluttering the sale of your house a decade from today. That's why I want you to get a quick break even on it. Because it's just, you know, what is a seven year old computer? A doorstop. You know, that's what it is. You know, it's like what it has to boot up. You know, it's like, you know, where's the dos? What is this? What is this strange speech ball thing? You know, it's like, you know, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I even handed one of our audio guys an old ipod that I found and said, hey, I want to pull the music off of it because my, my. I don't let my son have a phone out in the wild. But I said, I want you to fill it with all country songs. Can this. He looked at me like I had just handed him a box of fresh dog turds. He's like, what is this? I don't know what to do with this thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fresh dog. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I probably could have used a better analogy on your radio show, Dave, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our radio show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Our radio show. There we go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, yeah, it was. It was strange. But hey, he took it back and figured it out, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go. Well, because he's that guy. Alex is with us. Alex is in Tallahassee. Hi, Alex. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. About yourself, Dave and John.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, my wife and I have a little scenario. We currently have owned seven properties. One of them is my primary residence and then six investments. Three of the investment properties are paid off. And we've been discussing about maybe selling two properties. And selling two properties would pay off the remaining of the balance that I have on the four other properties that still have a mortgage on them.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'd be 100% debt free, including my primary.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would do that right now.

[Caller]

Yes, Today. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love real estate. I love real estate, Alex. But I like being debt free more.

[Caller]

I agree. And we were trying to hold on to it, not sell properties and just add more to the portfolio just for our children in the future.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you'll Be able to do that because you won't have any payments. I see the number how much you can stack cash with no payments to be able to buy the next one debt free and buy the next one debt free and buy the next one debt free. That's what I started doing about 20 years ago and I've got quite a large amount of real estate now.

[Caller]

I can ask one more quick question on the topic of real estate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes sir.

[Caller]

On the property. Once there are paid off, would you recommend I continue to keep the homeowners insurance?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

I'm in Florida and homeowners insurance is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not homeowners, it's fire and ec. It's not technically homeowner homeowners is for owner occupied only. But fire and ac. You know you got to run the analysis on it. I didn't think about you being in Florida a super expensive. You're right. Just run an analysis on it and go. How much of this pain am I willing to absorb? What happened if they all got wiped off the face of the earth by a hurricane? What would you do? Wish you had insurance? Yeah, maybe. I don't know. That's what I'm that's. I run worse than scenario through my emotional filters and see if I end up crying or not. This is the Ramsey show. Finally mortgage rates have dropped and you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their home buyer edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market you can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com to get started today. That's ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Owned by our Edge and seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in.

[Dave Ramsey]

All states or locations.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

NMLS ID 1591 NMLS consumeraccess.org/equal housing lenders there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doctor John DeLoney, Ramsey personality is my co host today. Thank you for joining us America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Corey is with us in Washington D.C. hi Corey, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi.

[Rhonda]

I'm all.

[Caller]

Thanks. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I am trying to figure out how to get out of a stuck situation. I'm living. I went through a divorce, which was a really terrible relationship and jumped into my mother's home for the time being, which has been way too long now. And I, in the process, I came in to her home with $50,000 in credit card debt and a car loan which I've since paid off.

[Dave Ramsey]

You paid off all the credit card debt and all the, all the, and the car? Both.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go. How long have you been there?

[Caller]

I have been here for six years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh.

[Caller]

So I paid that off and I've saved. I, I, and I went back to school all in that time and got a decent job and now make three times the amount that I was.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you making?

[Caller]

Started my job. Now I make 118.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you still there?

[Caller]

Because this market here, I started looking in 2020 for homes I've been outbid several times by like $40,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

45.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Why have you not gone and just rented something? You're debt free and you make $120,000 a year. You can rent something.

[Caller]

Yeah. The rentals around here for a three bedroom, I have three kids and myself for a three bedroom, it's about $3,000 a month. So at that point I thought I was just throwing away money. My income has gone up each year pretty substantially. So I keep feeling like I'm chasing the carrot. I get to like a point where I could potentially make it work. And then the, you know, the rents go up and the mortgage, the prices on the houses go up and of course the interest rates are up. So I feel like I can never just get a grasp on something that I can actually move comfortably, comfortably into. So now I'm trying to figure out, do I just put everything on hold as far as trying to buy a home?

[Dave Ramsey]

No. The secret to happiness is lower expectations. You're trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do.

[Caller]

Understood.

[Dave Ramsey]

You probably won't be able to catch that carrot. And I don't want you being 55 and living with your mother. I don't want your children graduating from high School, living with their grandmother.

[Caller]

Yeah. And that's the other thing. I have nothing saved up for them to go to school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but the point is that you have painted yourself a world where you have decided that you are trapped by housing prices and rental prices.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're not with.

[Caller]

So I get paid bi weekly, and I get paid about $2,600. Again, my income just went up in January. I was getting paid several hundred less per month last year and the year before. So with that, what can I afford? Because I keep looking at all these other bills.

[Dave Ramsey]

If I understood you right, you're debt free and you have how much saved?

[Caller]

About.

It's close to 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you make $118,000 a year and you have three children. Did I understand all of that right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you did all of that in six years, coming out of a broken, toxic, horrible marriage. I'm so proud of you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you got a degree. You're freaking amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done. You've really accomplished a lot here. And the, The. The thing I think I'm hearing, and I might be wrong, Corey, but I think I'm hearing that. That probably in the marriage and definitely with mom. The home that you're living in, or both nicer than the home that you can afford now, and you're having trouble with that?

[Caller]

Probably. Yeah. I definitely looked at lowering, you know, some of my living, you know, what I'm used to.

But yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The home that your mom is in now, did you grow up in that home?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so the home you grew up in was not as nice as the home that you're currently staying in.

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're not damaged because of that?

[Caller]

Yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, this house is. Okay. It's not like, fantastic or anything like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Could you afford to buy it if it was on the market?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's the point. Your childhood home, though, you might. And your children will not be damaged if they move into a home that's not something off of the Real Estate Channel on, you know, being redone by Chip and Joanna. Okay, So I want you to get your toe in the water in some kind of piece of real estate and establish sustainability of your own life, whether that's an inexpensive rental and you have a little bit too far of a commute, or it's not a stellar piece of property. This. That lines up with all of your. All of your wants, but does cover your needs. But I think you've set your. I think the reason you're chasing the carrot is you set the carrot pretty far out on the stick and I'm gonna pull the carrot back in and grab a hold of it and take a bite out of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think it's probably both and it's move the carrot out. And the housing market has gotten tough, especially in dc.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not saying it's not tough, but I'm saying the way she can enter the market making $120,000 a year with a $60,000 down payment is probably not. I mean, DC is super expensive. You're going to be outside of DC. You're not, you're not buying a place, you're not buying a place in D.C. proper. You're not buying a place in LA or San Francisco. You know, that used to be when you made $100,000 a year, you'd made it, but not anymore. Right. And not with housing prices being what they are. And so you're in a market where your expectations based on your fabulous progress that you've made. I'm very proud of you. But it may mean that you go somewhere else.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I, Dave, I, I, this is like a, a thing I want to be emphatic about. There's going to be things you want to give your kids. Like she even mentioned, I don't even have any college savings. I don't have this. I don't have this. Your kids can share a room. Your kids can put themselves through college. Your kids can do so much. What her kids have that I don't think she is recognized yet is they have a moment. Who's a warrior, who is extraordinary.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The greatest gift my parents gave me was not college. They didn't, they didn't have the money to pay for college. It wasn't a car. It was, it wasn't any of those things. It was. I had two parents that always scratched and clawed and both of them had midlife career changes. And I watched them flourish. And lo and behold, this opportunity came up when I had a career and I had the courage to go do something else, and I had the work ethic and all the stuff. That's what she's given her kids. And it's not something you can buy, it's something you witness. And so go get a town home if that's all you can afford. And two of your kids can share rooms. And they're going to be fine because they've got an incredible mom who loves them and they're watching you blaze a path. That's the greatest gift you can give your kids. It just is all the other stuff's gravy.

[Dave Ramsey]

The number of people that shared a bedroom with a sibling that ended up in counseling because of that alone is zero.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's a lot of kids, I'm telling you right now. I just had this conversation this weekend in Utah with the behavior services team. There's a lot of people in counseling because they have never shared a, a room. They've never had to negotiate anything other than whatever they want whenever they want it. And then they go to college or then they get married and their whole universe explodes because somebody else has a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Different opinion about something because somebody said, oh, the axis of the world does not run through the top of your little head. Who knew?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I. I've talked to every residence hall director on planet Earth that I've ever met, and I've always asked him just privately shared rooms or single rooms. I've never had one say the right thing to do developmentally for a college kid is to share a room. I can't sell it anymore because these kids are coming from their own bedrooms, their own bathrooms and their own whirlpool tub. So I have to make these single ones. But if it was. If I was the king for a day.

[Dave Ramsey]

You mean there's not a skylight?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Everybody has to. To share room. Can we get the sushi delivered to our dorm room? No. Yes. Kids can share rooms. They're so resilient, especially when you have a mom like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, you've given them a gift, Corey.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They can change schools. It's okay. It's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've given them a gift by stepping out of a horrible situation and then standing knee deep in that manure and flourishing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

And using that as fertilizer and have grown and grown and grown and grown. I'm so proud of you. You're an amazing lady. I think your real estate is just, I think your problem is unrealistic expectations with your numbers. So that's going to mean you either that you change probably the neighborhoods you've been looking at, whether it be for buying or for renting. And it may be a long commute. It may mean a complete move, it may mean a lot of other things, but and that's not to say I think that Washington, D.C. real estate's cheap. It's quite the opposite. It's basically crazy. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your house host, Dr. John DeLoney Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and host of the Dr. John DeLoney show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co host today. Open phones at Triple 8-825-5225. Daniel's in New York City. Hi, Daniel. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Big fan of the show. Me, my girlfriend, we're both young. We'd like to start dating and move it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well.

[Caller]

Sorry, sorry. We have been dating for four years and we'd like to move in together and potentially, well, we'd like to get married. We're just curious on what your thoughts were.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The data is not in your favor.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm actually doing some research for a new marriage project and they actually have the cohabitation data longitudinally just for earned income. And something as simple as household income over time is less than those who are married. Not to mention this, the statistics run the, the relationship not making it over time. How long have you all been dating?

[Caller]

Four years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Four years. Why not just pull the trigger? What are you waiting on?

[Caller]

I would like to do it. My parents are advising against it and they're saying that we should live together for six months to a year prior. I would like to do it. It's just that I, I'm also heating their advices.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are you?

[Caller]

My parents. I'm 20. 25. 26. In a month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So if you, if you already have your, if you're a guy who's going to listen to their parents even if you disagree with them, why are you calling two strangers on a podcast?

[Caller]

I was just curious what your guys's opinions was.

[Dave Ramsey]

You already knew?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. You already knew what we were gonna say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I started rattling off the data and you're like, yeah, I already knew that.

[Caller]

Right. We both think we're very, like, financially sound. We've saved up a bunch of money. So I'm just curious if that changes anything or. No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old were you when you got married?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

24.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I was 22.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've been married 43 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm, I'm 23 and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

I, I, I think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I do. All the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people.

[Dave Ramsey]

I respect John and I disagree with him sometimes.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We disagree all the time. And I'm usually right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's even hard. Really? Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me tell you this. Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. At some point you're Going to have to say, as for me and my household.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Your mom and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man, my son, they can only advise you.

[Caller]

Right. So my next question.

[Dave Ramsey]

And neither do podcasters get to tell you what to do. You still have to do what you want to do.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Understood. So we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income for engagement ring or rings. Oh, in our area for like New York City and Long island, it's really expensive for rent. We've traveled to a few cities. We, we just, we're other than like, we figure you guys recommend the quarter of your income for living expenses. Can we permit up to like 35 where we are? We're both in the hospitality entry level positions. We graduated together with associate's degrees.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, that's a completely different set of questions separate from what you called about, right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So yes, one month of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. And yes, one fourth of your take home pay is the most you need to put into rent. Not for household expenses, but into rent because you don't create a sustainable situation. You're short on money. Your house poor when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50%, regardless of where you live. So if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years and you take on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you. But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take home, you got a bad formula. It's not. You're going to struggle with that one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, but they're in New York, so all rent's gonna be free from now on. They're gonna be good. Yeah, no, too soon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Plus or minus the rats. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And I'm not talking about the rodents, but yeah. Okay. Yeah, I, I don't know. It's. No, Daniel, the math still has to math even in New York. And so yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do. It may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business, if you can't move up quickly enough with your associate's degrees into sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility too. Lots of people live leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began. People have done that until they can afford to do it. And so, you know, and New York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So literally New York, Tokyo, London, San Francisco, I mean these are, this is the list, right? Paris, these are very uber expensive to live in. Not just because they're recognizable major metro areas, but just stinking expensive, period. And so try renting a flat in London. That'll get your attention. Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up, Scott?

[Caller]

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

My wife and I, we are almost done with baby step two. I'm 49 years old. I was approached today at work to purchase a long term care policy. It's nursing home care. Yeah, it says if you become chronically ill, lifetime benefit term will pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need, you don't need it.

[Caller]

That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main, the main deal is.

[Dave Ramsey]

This long term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. The percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero. So we don't recommend buying it until you're 60. And if you're 60 and you got $10 million, don't buy it. Just self insure, just pay for the nursing home or pay for in home care or whatever you're going to do. Okay. But if you're, you know, you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old, the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years. It's going to crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically the guy dies before the lady 75% of the time. And so papa goes in the nursing home, uses up all the money and then dies, leaves mama broke. Look, that's the one 60 years old that needs long term care insurance. You don't need it at 40.

[Caller]

49.

[Dave Ramsey]

49. You don't need it till you're 60. I'm 65, I got plenty of money. I didn't buy it.

[Caller]

That's where I was a little hesitant. And I have a life insurance policy now. A term life that's done, I guess until I'm. Yeah, at 75, it ends. I also have insurance through, through the military. Should I be purchasing any other type of insurance?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, life insurance, you need about 10 to 12 times your income on you to cover your family if you die. And that's taking care of your wife and kids when you're 75. The kids hopefully will be grown and gone. They'll be grown, hopefully they'll be gone. So that's the game plan. And you'll be out of debt and have some money and, and you, so you, you, you're with some financial planning, you outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need some life insurance.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent. So many years ago, we came up with this great idea. There were these new things on your phone called an app, an application. So we decided that Ramsey should have an app that would do your budget. And we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it and we developed really, over the last decade or so, the world's best budgeting app, without a doubt. It's called EveryDollar, because EveryDollar has an assignment by you. You assign every one of your dollars a place to go. Give it a name. Well, what has ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years, we've invested a bazillion dollars in programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell and have managed to integrate into it the whole Ramsey plan, the Ramsey way. So, like, you guys call in and ask us detailed, nuanced questions about what you do at this baby step, or what do I do there? What do I do there's. And we've actually got almost all of that now answered inside of EveryDollar. So the all new EveryDollar, we just relaunched it the other day and it's a complete game changer. You can watch the premiere on our YouTube channel and see how it works in action. What happens is when you go in, if you've been there before, do it again. If you've never been, go now and get into the EveryDollar app because what happens in just the first 15 minutes or so, you're going to find thousands of dollars of margin and then we're going to start showing you how to apply it using the baby steps framework and the Ramsey Way, so to speak, and the Ramsey Way basically is we're going to take you from debt into wealth and generosity, change your whole family tree. We want you to get there. And so imagine how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The all new every dollar. It's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Jake. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. Guys, how are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

So me and my wife were 24, fresh out of college a few years ago, so we decided to build a home, our forever home. And the cost kind of got out of control. Our parents stepped in. My parents stepped in. Me and my wife been blessed to have our parents by our side. They actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. There's a different story behind that, but they're very. They've accumulated some wealth over the years. They've handed us over a lump sum of money to help us build this house. And whatever's left over, we will pay back in a mortgage payment to them. Me and my wife make about 130,000 a year before taxes with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is, and we do have a good amount of savings from the past years of working. About $120,000 in savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, you have $120,000 in savings. Why the flip did your parents have to give you money?

[Caller]

They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up, and so they want to help. Help every single one of their kids out. I'm one of three brothers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you made it sound like you got in trouble and they bailed you out.

[Caller]

Oh, no, no, no, sir. No, no, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what happened with the house you got. You bought too much house. What's the deal with the house?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we're building.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you're still building?

[Caller]

Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you just started building?

[Caller]

Yes. So the deal was with them was we can collaborate with them, they can help out. I mean, we have a really good relationship with our parents. I work for them, actually. And they wanted. This is what they wanted to do for us, and so we kindly accepted it. And any cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, we would pay back to them in a mortgage. And so I guess my question is, me and my wife are still young. We're 24. We're not thinking my kids right now. Do we give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning or do we have some of that? Keep most of it and travel and have fun in our early 20s.

[Dave Ramsey]

So do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel? That's in essence what this. Where this lands. When I say it that way, does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me?

[Caller]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. No, you did grown up stuff and went and bought a house at 24 years old, pay for your stinking house and then start talking about traveling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have a good relationship with your parents?

[Caller]

Very good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The surest way, the surest way to blow it up is to have money in between you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I know that's a weird, hard thing to say at 24. Especially when you got two people who are like, no, it's no big deal. It's no big deal. Just take it from two older guys. Clear the money between your relationships so that it can stay as good as it is right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think I heard a two stage deal here. Like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough, and so then they loaned you more. Is that right?

[Caller]

Yes, they loaned us the full amount of whatever it costs for the house. We're paying for it in cash to build. So they're not taking loan out from any. They've been completely debt free since 2008.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but you now owe them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

A mortgage payment. Okay, so that part where they went through Financial Peace University, they flunked the class because we tell you not to do that ever. Don't ever loan your children money. Oh, my God.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because it puts a wedge between the relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

The borrower is slave to the lender. Now you have to eat dinner. Hey, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master. Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's going to be painful for your wife. Not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife.

[Caller]

Understood.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on?

[Caller]

Probably going to be around 200 to 250,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how much of a gift did they give you?

[Caller]

About 50% of the total cost to build, so about 200. 250,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're 24 years old, you make 130, and you got a $450,000 house.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dang, Gina.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a lot of house, dude.

[Caller]

It's a lot of house. All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, for sure the answer to your question is no, you don't need to go on vacation. Yes, you need to do the. Take the 130,000. But I'm even going to go a step further. I'm going to put the 130,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage, and then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage, not from your parents, okay? Because I don't want this mortgage. I don't want you paying payments to your parents for any amount of money, for any amount of interest. I don't think you're going to do that because I think you guys have worked out this detailed thing in all of your heads that this all works out to the point that you're ready to go to Europe instead of pay by them back.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's. Here's what I would say. I can see myself working really hard so that I can bulldoze a path for my son and his new wife. I get that. But if my son was to hand me a check for 130 grand and say, dad, I've got this money saved up. This is the part of the mortgage. And then I want you to see here, I'm giving you the rest of it. I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son. I don't want to stay one of your. Like, I don't. I don't want you to be my banker. I would be so proud. And in a way, you're kind of not showing them up, but you're kind of saying, I'm taking this by. I'm taking the reins here. It would show a level of wisdom and maturity. I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can, dad, because the arrangement he's put you in is madness. It just ends in somebody wanting you to do something for Christmas and your wife doesn't want to. And it's like. Well, after all, we've. It just. It's just a recipe for disaster. But, man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it. And by the way, that's a tiny mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's 100, $120,000 more.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The tiny, tiny, tiny mortgage. Just go do that, man. You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as y' all make.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you don't go on trips.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. If you don't go to Europe. And by the way, you're. I don't know, Dave. Trips are more fun when I. When I'm older now. I don't know why. They just are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, they're more fun because they don't follow you home. But in essence, that's what this ends up being.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't have.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. The amount we borrow from mom and dad by the amount that we spend on the trips. And so it's black. Borrowing on the trip, borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip. And obviously that would be ludicrous. So moms and dads, those of you that graduated from Financial Peace University with a better grade than that mom and dad got, which was an F, here's the rule, okay? If you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house and part of the bargain is they never borrow money again because you want your family tree to be completely changed, great. Never make your child your grown child, your slave. You change your relationship with your daughter in law, your son in law, you change the relationship in how you interact with each other. It's just you're adding layers to it that you are unintended, but they're very real. And no one is the exception. Even a nice master is a master.

[Rhonda]

Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money but still stuck? I was you in debt, running hard but taking three steps forward and two steps back. Turns out it's not the numbers. It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, what no tells you about money. To help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre order now and score over $100 in free bonus items, but only if you order by January 5th. Go to ramseysolutions.com store today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doctor John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Dima and Rhonda are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

[Rhonda]

Hey, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Where do you two live?

[Rhonda]

We live in Durham, North Carolina.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I love Durham. Great town. Welcome to Nashville and good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off? We've paid off $266,192. How long did this take? Oh my God, four years and eight months. Golly. All right, and your range of income during that time? Our starting salary was 138,000 and our ending salary $284,500. Look at you too. What do you like, what do you do for a living?

[Rhonda]

Oh, well, I'm actually in compensation. I work for a medical tech company, so I'm a Compensation. In the compensation role.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't even know what that means. That must pay really well.

[Rhonda]

Hey, I think that's why I get paid the big bucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

For real. I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you ain't making $280,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not at all. I'm also a professor as well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. Good for you guys.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's awesome, guys.

[Rhonda]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go. So what kind of debt was the 266? Yeah, so it was a car loan.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Credit card, and Demons. Grad school, student loan. I'm telling you right now.

[Rhonda]

Absolutely. Student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So my. My student loans were 150,000, and Rhonda's were 100.

[Rhonda]

About 100. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's undergraduate, graduate, and doctorate. And.

[Rhonda]

Yeah, and so for me, I went out of state, Dave, And a private institution, and then I went on and got a master's after that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Rhonda]

Talk about, like, piling it on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Piling it on. Okay. So how long have you two been married?

[Rhonda]

Oh, this year, we're celebrating 10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

So halfway through five years ago, something happened. What happened? What set you off on this stuff?

[Rhonda]

He decided to go get that last degree, and we were already, like, if you want to think about it, we were already, like, 800 and something in student loans. Just me with Dema's student loans being in forbearance, and we're like, what are we gonna do when your loans come out and we have to start paying? Like, mind you, we had just had a little one in 2017, and Dima started school, and we're like, we cannot take on my loans. Daycare. And then when Dima get, like, his student loans, we were scared. Like, what's that gonna look like?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it just kept stacking up till it got scary.

[Rhonda]

Yeah, it got really scary.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then what happened? What'd you do?

[Rhonda]

I mean, we're graduates of the Financial Peace Institute University, so I think we were just kind of taking it baby steps. Baby steps. But when we realized what we're gonna be under with all the student, we were just like, we've gotta use the principles and really get serious and intentional.

[Dave Ramsey]

Time to get hardcore.

[Rhonda]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so you lean in. And what was the first thing you did, and what was the radical stuff you did?

[Rhonda]

Oh, we started doing the monthly. Monthly meetings, talking about our finances, Hard conversations. Hard conversations. I mean, credit cards, of course. We. We put them in a jar in the kitchen, and we're, like, paying with cash, and. And if it wasn't on our. Our monthly, you know, Things that we had talked about, then we weren't doing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would you say?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Who's the spender?

[Dave Ramsey]

I was hoping you would die, Dave.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, your shoes are shot. Your watch is blinding me.

[Rhonda]

Let me say this. For his birthday, he was like, oh, let's go, let's get this car. Let's test drive it. On his birthday, we ended up walking away with a car. So I would say, Dave, after we got intentional that car, we sold it and we were upside down. So we're like, but we can't. And we made sure that anything else we had, we were paying cash for as far as cars. And that was really the testament that he was able to say, hey, I love the car, but I want us to get us out of debt and sold the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Being debt free was more. More important. Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Y' all have made it incredible combined salary together. Both of y' all are rolling up to places where people are seeing y' all drive up. And y' all ain't driving quarter million dollar cars.

[Rhonda]

No, I, you know, we still own. I have a 2010 Mazda.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Runs great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It runs great.

[Rhonda]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your mysterious compensation job.

[Rhonda]

Yes, absolutely. You know, we're like, hey, we can't get rid of this. Like, you know, we think about gas prices and things like that, but it's making us more intentional and saying, like, now that we've paid off debt, what else can we do?

[Dave Ramsey]

Definitely humbling ourselves and having faith in the process was a struggle. But, you know, I'd definitely say be persistent and resilient.

[Rhonda]

Absolutely. Because you know what, Dave? Like, we're all taught to, like, pay off debt, but then it's like, what do you do after you pay off debt? And so, so we're loving these conversations because we're just been so used to paying off our student loans and paying off four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, that's a habit pattern right there.

[Rhonda]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Four years of doing nothing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, basically.

[Rhonda]

But you know what? One of our happy experiences, when we challenged ourselves to say, what are we going to do? And I remember our birthday. We had $100. And so what are we going to do with that? We went and we did a day trip to the beach. And that's been the most memorable trip. And it was like, we packed sandwiches, everything was free. And we're like, wow. And I'm like, I'm still talking about that birthday. So it's like, be humble and you'll be surprised. I think even Dima made me a birthday cake. So it was box.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, you know, you know, it was.

[Rhonda]

It was good, and it was humbling to us.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And Dima, can I tell you, being a professor, being a mental health practitioner.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've always wondered if you want to do this. This scientific study. I'll put it on the air for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I always wondered, if you're somebody in the helping profession, if you're a professor, how much do you have to curb what the research says? How much do you have to curb what you actually believe is the right thing to say? Because you're not really supposed to say that. And I owe somebody money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And now the students that you're going to be teaching, they're going to get an unfiltered you, because nobody.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't, you know, nobody's telling you what to do anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

No knife over you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're going to be able to sit there and tell these. These clients of yours, here's the truth. Because I don't know anybody, anything, man, I could speak from here. Now, does that make sense?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was one of the motivators in wanting to be debt free. Just the freedom, if you will, like you mentioned, Dr. John, like that freedom that you have to kind of. You have that discretionary income, if you will. We're still working through the baby steps, but you have more freedom. And there's no. There's no one. There's no loans or things of that nature that you have to pay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm proud of you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done. Proud of you. Excellent. Way to go, heroes. Thank you.

[Rhonda]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

How does it feel?

[Rhonda]

Oh, I mean, Dr. John, you said it. Just to not owe anybody anything. Like, really, what can we do now? It's really challenging us to say, what do we want to do with our careers? And, like, how do we give back? It's making you just want to just pour out all of that knowledge. And. And so we're just, like, just ready and fired up about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's refreshing. Like our budget meetings are.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a different.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a different vibe, and we can't. Thank you, too. Thank you, too.

[Rhonda]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Ramsey]

Damsy Ramsey crew. Yeah. Thank you all. Way to go, y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're proud of you. Thank you, Heroes, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is one of the rare couples that they both married well. Y' all both did all right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Me and Dave, we won out in our marriages, but y' all both thank you.

[Rhonda]

Appreciate it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's great. Very well done, you two. Very well done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's Dima and Rhonda from Durham, North Carolina. $266,000 paid off in four years and eight months, making 138 to 284. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Three, two, one.

[Caller]

We're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Let's go.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. Well done. Very well done. Yeah, I guess the. The number of things you can do when you have that liberty is changed dramatically, but it's particularly. I never thought of it in a university setting. That's very interesting that you don't have this 266 breathing down your neck. So you can just kind of go, so here's the truth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, and.

[Rhonda]

And you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You sit at the table and this is what. This is how we're going to teach this? Or this is how we're saying this, or if you have this belief, you're stupid. And if you owe a whole bunch of money, you kind of got to put your head down and go to the next thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotta bite your tongue.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so now Dim has been unleashed. It's gonna be fun to see it happen, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, heroes. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Sam. Foreign.

[Rhonda]

Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off, worse, or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around, so let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free EveryDollar live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck so you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000 just for signing up. Listen, another year is gonna pass anyway, so decide that this is the year you're gonna take back control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live [e-mail].

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture today, 2nd Corinthians 1:4, he comforts us all in our troubles so we can comfort others when we. When they are troubled. We will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us. Jordan Peterson says, face the demands of life voluntarily, respond to a challenge instead of bracing for catastrophe. Amberly is with us in Concord, New Hampshire. Hey, Amberly, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I. My husband and I have made a series of really bad financial mistakes, and we were just wondering if we should sell our house this year or next year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What kind of mistakes?

[Caller]

Well, we were house poor. We bought a duplex that, you know, it's overwhelming. We have to. We pay about three grand a month, and we only make about 60 grand gross, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you wait a year? You're drowning.

[Caller]

I know we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it you're waiting on?

[Caller]

Well, I'm the main person who does the budget, and I was just. For some reason, it seems like we make. We do somewhat make a little bit more money by staying here, but I feel like it's wrong. I feel like it would be better if we can move.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm confused. It feels like you make more money. Math is not a feeling. Do you make more money or not?

[Caller]

Well, we make 60 grand gross, and then we also get 2,500amonth from the other side. And so it. I don't know. I. I know we probably should, and we're.

We're.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you not like being a landlord, Amberly?

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Solid. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Be honest about the problem. I can hear it says this thing's a brick around your neck.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your sanity is not worth it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stupid house.

[Caller]

It is.

And we found out that our tenant has been running the water 247 and so. Sorry. I'm just a little overwhelming being on the air. Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're good.

[Dave Ramsey]

We've never lost a patient. You're okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I want to. And we're in this market where I know that we could technically, you know, this house would appreciate, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't matter.

[Caller]

I do want to get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't matter. It's not fun.

[George Camel]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everything in this conversation says you're not having fun.

[Rhonda]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

This house has not been a blessing. It's been a curse.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And tick tock told you that the way to wealth is to buy a duplex. Rent the other side. They'll pay your mortgage, and you're going to.

[Dave Ramsey]

And now it's not fun.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Now it's not fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

You found out TikTok was wrong. Oh, there's a shock.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, should put it on the market, like next month or Friday.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, Friday.

[Dave Ramsey]

Friday.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Friday sounds good.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. If I have something I own that I hate, as bad as you hate this. Even if I made a mistake and I'm ashamed To admit the mistake. I'm still going to admit the mistake. I want to kill it. As soon as I can kill it, I want it in my rear view mirror as a distant memory of dumb things I've done. Otherwise, every time you drive up the driveway, you're going, I don't feel really good about me.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you can't be the wife you want to be. You can't be the mom you want to be. You can't be the employee you want to be. It affects every square inch of your life.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not having fun. We can hear it. And it's not just you're scared to be on the air. It's your whole situation. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, if you had a house payment you could afford, you could breathe again. You're having trouble getting a full lung full of air right now.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's overwhelming. I'm scared.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we can hear it. And it's not being mean to you. I've been exactly where you are. That's how I can identify it. I smell it. I know what it feels like. The thing is that the faster you act on this, the quicker you're gonna get peace.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And peace is really our goal here. You got plenty of time to buy a different house, plenty of time to make different real estate decisions. Sell this thing and go rent an apartment or something for six months and breathe a little bit, and then slow down and make a better real estate decision. The next time you move into real estate, you can do this. So go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Real Estate Elps for Ramsey. Trusted real estate agents, people we trust that we have vetted, and they'll help you get the thing on the market and help you get it sold asap. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. I like real estate, but I hate real estate. Isn't that interesting? Because I see what it does to people when you do it wrong, including me. It leaves a mark. It's not fun. Alejandro is with us in Miami. What's up, Alejandro?

[Caller]

Excuse me. Sorry. Just drink water.

[Dave Ramsey]

No trouble.

[Caller]

Yes. My question is, is it worth it to go to college? Now? The reason why I'm asking that is because I have a. You know, my brother, he's basically studying in US and he's been going to college for basically eight years now because he's getting his doctors now. He's a, you know, straight A student and everything. And my. My worrisome is that his debt is five digits, so. No. Yeah, it's five digits, basically. So he's going from like, let's say from 9,000 to 60,000. And like the amount of debt that he's getting is ridiculous. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what are we asking about you or him?

[Caller]

I was. This is more for, for him than it is for myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's already made his decision.

[Caller]

Right, right. But what I wanted to know is that, like, from what I see in the market overall, I see employers basically asking more than what they could give off. As in like a story that he was telling me is that, oh, hey, there's a position that they like his degree, but they're only offering like 70,000 instead of the range that the college promised him. And that's kind of like, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is his degree going to be in? To continue the sports medicine. Okay. And so he's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine?

[Caller]

60. 60,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And this is a four year degree.

[Caller]

This is, it's becoming eight. He did for. Then he got, he got his master's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so he's getting a PhD in sports medicine. Yes. Yeah, well, that's not necessary. Okay. In that field. So the answer. But, but the problem is you cannot extrapolate that to is it okay to go to college? Because yes, it's okay to go to college. College is worth the expense if you pay cash and study something that's actually usable in the marketplace. The problem was your brother overdid it. He got two more degrees than he needed to function in that space, or.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

At least one more that he could afford. And if he wants to move up, then he gets his master's degree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do not need a PhD in sports medicine to function in the sports medicine space.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Unless maybe if you're going to go work for an NFL team or something, they may want you to have a doctor or by your name, but who knows? I don't even know the particulars of that. But the college is going to give you a range and when they give you a salary range, those things are skewed by. If they're taking numbers from San Francisco and New York to Nebraska, it's all over the place. And so don't blame the college. He's got to do his own research and say, what does it pay in the area that I want to live?

[Dave Ramsey]

And yeah, I wouldn't go to school 8 years for a $70000 job. I agree with you, Alejandro, that's not worth it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely not.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can get lots of $70,000 jobs for four year degrees and lots of hundred thousand dollar jobs going to trade school and being a welder so if you're just looking at return on investment the trades are awesome there's a gap right now in the marketplace and they pay beautifully but to say college is completely never worth it is an incorrect not a factual statement. It's not a factual statement Getting a degree in stupidity left handed puppetry or German polka history and then thinking you're going to end up with being anything but a barista is ridiculous and so that's dumb but you can't take somebody doing something stupid like that and saying all higher ed is bad that's just not true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No the data succeeds My kids are going to go to college.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah mine too mine did. Yeah there you go that puts the Sauer the Ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace Christ Jesus.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sa.