You Can’t Fix People by Funding Their Bad Decisions

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show

Episode Title: You Can’t Fix People by Funding Their Bad Decisions
Date: December 2, 2025
Hosts: Dave Ramsey (A), Dr. John Delony (C)
Producer: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers on a theme repeated throughout: “You can’t fix people by funding their bad decisions.” Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Delony respond to callers facing issues rooted in financial enabling, family expectations, and tough love. The hosts urge listeners to make decisions that promote independence and long-term well-being, not short-term comfort, while fielding questions about everything from family bailouts to buying cars, navigating in-law drama, and the realities of wealth-building.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. You Can’t “Help” by Enabling Bad Behaviors

• Caller: Bonnie (Las Vegas) [01:09–08:32]
  • Context: Bonnie adopted a teenager, now 19, who’s not making wise choices—unemployed, no car insurance, and living with another family member. Bonnie and her husband disagree on how to help.
  • Ramsey Response:
    • On Enabling vs. Helping:
      “I want you to define the word help to be not something that temporarily takes away her pain, but something that helps her be a better 30-year-old.” (Dave Ramsey, 04:16)
    • On Tough Love:
      “You just caving and throwing money at her while she’s misbehaving...is not really help, is it? It’s giving a drunk a drink.” (Dave Ramsey, 04:33)
    • Relational Support:
      “I’ll be your cheerleader and your coach. I won’t be your bank.” (Dave Ramsey, 06:16)
  • Delony Perspective:
    • Adopted kids (especially older adoptions) test parents to see if they’ll be abandoned. Consistent, non-monetary connection is key—like weekly breakfasts or recurring calls.
    • Key Quote:
      “That’s different than ‘I’m going to always give you whatever you want whenever you want it.’” (John Delony, 05:07)

2. Financial Oversight for Vulnerable Family Members

• Caller: Gary (Riverside, CA) [10:36–19:31]
  • Situation: 85-year-old mother-in-law is heavily indebted, scammed, and compulsively shopping through TV and online outlets.
  • Advice:
    • Move her Social Security income to a new, controlled bank account.
      “She has no spending available to her except what you give her. And you operate her account as if she's incompetent—voluntarily.” (Dave Ramsey, 12:10)
    • Involve siblings for transparency.
    • Recognize loneliness and technological confusion as root issues.
    • Quote:
      “Larry Burkett used to say financial problems are not the problem, they’re the symptoms.” (Dave Ramsey, 14:45)

3. Annuities and Buyer’s Remorse

• Caller: Sherry (Dallas) [22:29–29:29]
  • Context: Rolled $689,000 from a 401k into a fixed annuity, only to feel trapped by early withdrawal penalties (13%).
  • Ramsey’s Take:
    • Seek advice from a SmartVestor Pro, not the selling agent.
    • If there’s no legal recourse, take the hit and reinvest elsewhere—over time, good investments can recover that fee.
    • General warning against annuities as investment products for most people.
    • Memorable Quote:
      “If the name of the company you’re dealing with, your ‘investment’ has insurance in the name, you’re about to get screwed.” (Dave Ramsey, 29:49)

4. Reconciling Competing Goals in Marriage

• Caller: Caleb (Canada) [33:19–39:10]
  • Dilemma: One spouse wants to travel, the other wants to pay down the mortgage.
  • Advice: Split extra funds between both goals; revisit as you go.
  • Delony’s Insight:
    “That’s where true marital intimacy comes from, because you get beneath the spreadsheet and into spirit.” (John Delony, 38:03)

5. Flood Insurance—Worth It?

• Caller: Chris (Tampa, FL) [39:10–41:57]
  • Question: Is expensive flood insurance necessary after paying off a coastal home?
  • Answer: Yes—“It’s a sleep tax.” After disasters (like Katrina), only flood insurance pays out.
  • Quote:
    “State Farm paid nothing. They paid no one anything on hurricane insurance because they declared it all to be floods.” (Dave Ramsey, 40:45)

6. Cohabitation Before Marriage—Does It Help?

• Caller: Daniel (NYC) [44:08–49:52]
  • Question: Should we move in together before marriage? Parents advise yes.
  • John Delony’s take:
    “The data is not in your favor.” Married couples fare better than cohabiting couples, statistically.
  • Dave Ramsey:
    “You can respect your parents and still disagree with them.” (45:57)
  • Practical advice on engagement ring budgets and rent-to-income ratios.

7. Reverse Mortgages—A Tempting Trap

• Caller: John (Edmonton, Canada) [53:54–60:07]
  • Situation: Parents consider a reverse mortgage to support recently widowed daughter.
  • Dave & John’s stance:
    Don’t risk your own financial foundation. Find other ways to help, like childcare.
  • Quote:
    “Feels like a permanent solution for a temporary problem.” (Dave Ramsey, 57:50)

8. Families & Control: Tuition Payback Requests

• Caller: Elisha (Knoxville) [80:46–85:00]
  • Scenario: In-laws demand repayment for wife’s unfinished college semester after she quit engineering due to illness.
  • Hosts:
    • “This is not about tuition. This is about control.” (Dave Ramsey, 83:22)
    • “The relationship you’re trying to preserve has never been there.” (John Delony, 84:33)

9. Living at Home at 30: Time to Launch

• Caller: Alyssa (Chicago) [117:24–121:28]
  • Q: Should I keep paying parents rent, or move out?
  • Ramsey:
    • “At 30 years old, if you’re not sick and you haven’t been abused, there’s no reason for you to be at home. You need to be like a grown-up woman.” (Dave Ramsey, 119:47)
    • Analogy: A safety net vs. a hammock. Home should not be permanent for adults.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On True Help:
  “Redefine help—not to remove pain for the moment, but to make a person better at 30.” (Dave Ramsey, 04:16)

• On Enabling:
  “Giving a drunk a drink. Yeah, it’s enabling.” (Dave Ramsey & John Delony, 04:33–06:18)

• On Family Boundaries:
  “If you think there’s not crazy in your family, that means it’s you.” (Dave Ramsey, 00:40)

• On Risk & Business:
  “The way I went broke was I borrowed too much money… All you have seen is the upside, you’ve not considered any of the downsides.” (Dave Ramsey, 69:44)

• On Living Like an Adult:
  “You do not need to be living under mommy’s roof at 30 freaking years old. You’ve stunted your development.” (Dave Ramsey, 119:47)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:09–08:32] — Bonnie’s adopted daughter: enabling vs. tough love
• [10:36–19:31] — Elderly parent’s shopping addiction and financial protection
• [22:29–29:29] — Annuity regret and what to do next
• [33:19–39:10] — Travel vs. mortgage payoff: marriage and money-talk
• [39:10–41:57] — Florida flood insurance: sleep tax and natural disaster realities
• [44:08–49:52] — Should you live together before marriage?
• [53:54–60:07] — Reverse mortgage and widow with young children
• [80:46–85:00] — In-laws, tuition, and the control game
• [117:24–121:28] — Adult children boomeranging home and independence

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Tone & Style

The episode balances compassion with “tough love.” Both hosts use humor, directness, and personal stories. Dave is blunt but warm; John brings psychological depth and empathy. Enforcement of financial discipline and boundary-setting are recurring themes.

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Conclusion

This episode embodies the Ramsey philosophy: Real help means enabling independence, not removing discomfort. Whether dealing with struggling kids, elderly parents, or your own money mistakes, Dave and John push listeners to make hard decisions now for a better life later—and remind you that “normal is broke.”

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For more information or to listen to future episodes, visit: www.ramseysolutions.com

Transcript

[A]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John DeLoney, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show, one of our more popular properties on the Ramsey Network. Number one best selling author and Ramsey personality, Ph.D. in counseling, by the way. And after Thanksgiving, some of you probably need a little of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Open phones here at 888-825-5225. I'm not saying your family's crazy. I'm just saying somebody in your family is crazy. Yeah, that's our standing joke around here. If you think there's crazy in every family and if you think there's not in yours, that means it's you. So, yeah, welcome to Thanksgiving and here we go to Christmas, baby. Yeah, just keep it rolling. The hit homecoming. Bonnie's in Las Vegas. Hey, Bonnie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[B]

Hi, Dave. How are you?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[B]

Amen. Well, we've been long standing, huge fans of yours and we just appreciate everything you do. And we have our 19 year old, we adopted her when she was 16 and so we did the best that we could, you know, for the few years that we had where she was living under our roof, just teaching her, you know, how to save money, just be wise, you know, with financial decisions and ultimately it just was not, you know, received well. And you know, so I, my husband and I think are at, are at odds because, you know, one thing led to another and she just wasn't really making wise choices in any area. And it just kind of was a better situation for her to leave the home, you know, because we have five little ones at our house as well that, you know, she was ultimately an example to as well. But she's, you know, living with another family member is safe and good, but she's in a situation now where, you know, she doesn't have car insurance because she can't afford it. And so she's. Because she's not working. And now she's, you know, not working because she doesn't have a car to get to work. And so my mama heart wants to come in and, you know, kind of save her and help her out. You know, I don't necessarily know what that looks like, but, you know, my husband kind of says, well, she's kind of got a, you know, maybe hit rock bottom. Hit you know, a low so that, you know, she can kind of wake up a little bit and, you know, she wants help, she can come and ask us. And I'm kind of like, well, maybe she doesn't know that she can, you know, that she can ask us for help. So we're kind of, you know, at odds there. And I was just wondering if you had any suggestions.

[A]

You guys have got big hearts and you're sweet people and you're really trying to make up 16 years of mess in just three years. Yeah. And you did not get to enter into the development stages of her child development. You didn't get to lay any groundwork there. So basically you're taking a quasi adult at 16 and trying to. Trying to fill her up with 16 years worth of stuff she didn't get before. And it didn't, didn't work. Right. Yeah. So this is a lot bigger than car insurance for her, isn't it?

[B]

Right?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear the pain in your voice. I'm sorry, but the. Yeah, so I'll let John pick it up. But the thing I run into with the money piece is the nicest people on the planet and you're one of them. And the one day a year that I'm the nicest person and the other I'm not, but that one day I am. I can fall into the same bucket. We become enablers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And we say things like mama's heart. It's not mama's heart. So what I want you to do is I want you to define the word help to be not something that temporarily takes away her pain, but something that helps her be a better 30 year old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you just caving and running over and throwing money on her while she's misbehaving, rebelling, and doing a whole bunch of other stuff she shouldn't be doing for her own sake is not really help, is it? It's giving a drunk a drink. Yeah. Yeah. So, John. Yeah.

[C]

It's been my experience working with teenagers and young adults who were adopted especially late, that I don't think this is a conscious thing at all. But there's always going to be a push to see are you going to leave me too? And it's a recurring limit to how far can I take. Push you, how far can I stretch these boundaries, stretch this, this rope you're giving me so I can prove to myself that it's me that's the problem. And so the challenge for you is how do you constantly stay in communication to this young person? That you adopted and let them know I will never leave you. And that's different than I'm going to always give you whatever you want whenever you want it.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

And where I've seen families be successful is it's a little bitty things like a recurring breakfast together. It's a. Anytime. I'm going to call you once a week. I'm going to call you twice a week. We're going to meet at the local Waffle House there in Vegas once a week on Tuesday mornings. I'm going to be there at 7 o' clock o' clock in the morning or I'll be in front of your house to pick you up because you don't have a car. I want to see you. And I'm going to continue to not just talk, but I'm going to do these small steps to prove to you that I'm in this for the long haul.

[A]

I'll be your cheerleader and your coach. I won't be your bank.

[C]

I'll be your number one fan.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I'm not your bank.

[C]

That's right. And like Dave said, we're aiming here for a 30 year old that believes in themselves, not a happy 19 year old. Those, those are two very different things.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And there's. That means you're gonna have to weather a storm and you've weathered one for the last three years. Is that fair?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah. I know it's been messy and ugly and there's going to be days you sit outside and she doesn't show up. There's gonna be days you're sitting at a diner by yourself and so take other work you got to do or whatever. But you want to constantly be showing yourself until she says I don't want a relationship with you.

[A]

But like, but if a relationship is based on you writing her checks, that's not a relationship.

[C]

It was never a relationship to begin with.

[A]

Purchased relationship has another name.

[C]

Yeah. And, and right. You. There may come a moment when you have to exhale you and your husband and say we did the best we could for three years in this person's life and this person's an adult now and they don't want anything to do with us. And that'll be heartbreaking and all that. But like Dave said, what is a way that we can be supportive? So you get a job and I will help you for four months with car insurance until you're under on your.

[A]

Feet or I'll match you. You save up.

[C]

Part of it, that's my favorite part is the match.

[A]

Something like that. But I'm going to call you up and pay for it. And call that mother's heart? No, that's just giving a drunk a drink.

[C]

Yeah, it's enabling.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And so it's, it's you and your husband getting clear together. What are ways we can partner with a young adult who has never had any sort of modeling up until 16 years old? That's just tough. It's tough for that for your 19 year old. It's tough for you all. It's tough for everybody because there's gonna be a lot of hurt involved, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, there has been.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And you had to get her out of the house, away from the kids. So this kid's out of control for sure. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. I hate you. You're a good person, you're sweet, you're trying. And just don't get confused about the definition of help. Real help helps her when she's 30, not when she's 19. Some 19 year olds. Real help is unlimited beer. No, that's not, that's not what we're talking about.

[C]

Yeah. Ask yourself, who do you want this 30 year old to be when they're 30? And reverse engineer.

[A]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[C]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life ins.

[A]

Life insurance, that's a gut punch.

[C]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[A]

Me too.

[C]

They don't know what to do next.

[A]

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here and you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[C]

That's exactly.

[A]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[C]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you.

[A]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Foreign. Is in Riverside, California. Hey, Gary, what's up?

[B]

Hey, good morning, Dave and John. Thank you for taking my call. I'm calling on behalf of my mother in law. She's 85 years old. She's on a fixed income through Social Security and she's a widow. We just recently learned that she's racked up $38,000 in debt, credit cards through QVC, JTV, things like that. She's gone into a debt consolidation company without our knowledge. And then she's still spending using her ATM card through qvc, jtv, hsn, and every purchase is the five easy payments. So she's got money coming out of her ATM now daily that's drawing her into the negative. And on top of that, she was just start we found out she was trying to refinance her home that would take her mortgage up to about 55% of her income. So we're looking for suggestions. One, with the debt that's in collections and two, how to stop the ongoing money that's coming out of her account literally on a daily basis.

[A]

Doesn't matter. She goes back and does it again next week.

[B]

We think we finally got her to the point where she realizes that she's got a problem, she can't do it.

[C]

Will she sign it over to you? Because right now you don't have a legal claim to tell her to stop.

[B]

So she does have a living trust and I am her financial power of attorney there. But she has not been declared incompetent or anything like that. We don't know whether or not I.

[A]

Want her to shut down all of her checking accounts and she has no spending available to her except what you give her. And you operate her account as if she's incompetent voluntarily.

[B]

One of the things, that's one of the things that my wife and I were discussing was whether we should shut down that account and for her own.

[A]

Good, not because you need her money, but I mean she ain't got any start with but the, the, but the bottom line is, is I don't believe her. This is a lonely lady that is getting someone on the phone who's talking to her on the shopping Channel. And she's figured out a way to have a conversation when she's sitting there by herself. And she's going to do it again and again and again and again and again until you take. Until you take all manner of payment out of her control.

[C]

And the only way to do that right now, since she's not deemed incompetent, is voluntarily. She has to give that to you.

[A]

Yeah, she's gonna. Look, we've. This is. I've heard this story a bunch of times in 35 years, okay? And it's a classic. And so the. I'm not just jumping to conclusions here about this unique situation. I'm telling you what I would do if it was my mother in law. I would say, I really can't help you unless I help you. And here's how I can best help you. I will make sure you have food and your house, and I will get these bills paid off for you. But we're going to stop all spending, and I'm going to control the account and make sure you have stuff until you can get the other side of this. And then we'll look at whether we want you to do it or not. But we're going to take the Social Security check, put it in a different bank, and we're going to open up an account, and I'm going to be in control of that account. We're going to close the other account, okay? And then you can jump on the phone with the miscellaneous payment people and just go, Good luck. She's 85. She's on Social Security. She's got nothing. A matter of fact, if I can scrape together a few dollars of hers, I'll settle it with you. I've got full power of attorney. I'll send that to you. And so what you did was prey on old people and took advantage of them and sold them stuff they couldn't afford. So you're going to get what you deserve, which is nothing, honey. So I'm gonna totally mess with them, bloody their nose. I'll pay them something. But they can be cleared up. You're just gonna have to bully them for what they. And that's what they deserve.

[C]

Yeah, but you can't do it if.

[A]

She'S doing 10 more tomorrow. Right? Right. And she will do.

[B]

Don't you think that's our number one concern?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Larry Burkett used to say financial problems are not the problem, they're the symptoms. If these problems are the symptom, then what's the real problem? I think it's Loneliness.

[B]

Part of it, but some of it, she's clicking through things on Facebook and they're signing her up for things that she's not even realizing that she's signing up for.

[A]

Okay. She's being preyed upon as an elder that doesn't understand the technology, and she's lonely 100%. Yeah. And so, you know, I, I, I've got, I've got to build a system that, that brings that into consideration to help her. And that's what I'm outlining.

[C]

Will she turn it over to you.

[A]

You think she'll do?

[B]

Depends on the day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At times she seems like she's wanting help, and then at others she gets stubborn and is like, I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone.

[A]

It's your wife's mom.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Your wife got siblings?

[B]

Two of them.

[A]

Yeah. She means make sure they're in the loop.

[B]

They are.

[A]

Yeah. But I mean, they're in the loop with you taking this over, because then they're gonna be calling me and go, my brother in law stole all my mother's money.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then you're setting up another war when she passes away, because then it will be like, where's the money? What'd you do? And we didn't know you were doing this.

[A]

Just keep it, just keep a real clear ledger so you know exactly where every bit of it went. So you can handle an audit and you just send them the audit and go, good luck. Figure it out. You weren't there, you weren't helping. But that's coming up too. But I'd send them a report once a month, let them see exactly what's going on once you take it over so that they don't come back at you later. They don't have any legal basis. But I'm just talking about relationally.

[B]

Yeah, understood.

[C]

And I have a personal rule of thumb. It's not ironclad, but it's just. But just seems to work better. Can. Does your mother in law listen to you more than her own daughter, or is this a conversation that your wife and her siblings can have?

[B]

We've tried that. So her, the siblings are out of state. My wife and I have been over there a couple times over the last couple weeks and we have the conversations together. My wife is standing right here with me now as we're discussing this.

[C]

Okay. Sometimes a third party helps, and sometimes third party being you, and sometimes it makes it more convoluted. And so y' all know your family dynamics better than anybody. But that's always where I want somebody to start. And for some reason, sometimes people can't hear from their adult kids, but they can hear from somebody else. And so if you're that somebody else, that's great.

[A]

Yeah. I had a family member of my wife Sharon's that asked me a detailed question about an estate thing and I said, oh, that's easy. You just need to do this, this, this and this. And if you don't do it, you're going to create these problem. You need to do it this week. Do this, this and this. You got it? Yeah. Okay. You know what they did? Nothing.

[C]

Not that.

[A]

Nothing. It was freaking Dave Ramsey that said it. Okay. I mean this isn't like the other brother in law. This is me, you know, God almighty, nothing. So yeah, John's right. Sometimes it's the blood that's got the blood can that's got to make the message go through. Doesn't matter who it is. So you sound very credible. Gary, I like what you're saying and I think you're going to have to. A part is going to create a partial door open to Facebook scams, to shopping channel scams and she's going to sign up for all of them and she's going to end up. And refinancing the house obviously is ridiculous. No, don't do that. I would rather just put all these other bills in collections. Just let them go to collections and ruin her credit. That'd be awesome. So she can't get anymore.

[C]

Dave. So I hear this only because I'm on this show. But if I read the headlines, all the headlines say is there's this bajillions of trillions of dollars of wealth in aging populations. But I have to believe that's concentrated because the more I'm on this show, I'm hearing more and more of what I would call the other untold story of aging populations that are increasingly falling for Internet scams. Letting princes over in somewhere in Africa borrow money.

[A]

The Nigerian prince has a bitcoin.

[C]

Yeah. All kind like. But it's, it's becoming like really significant. And I don't know if there's a broader conversation that needs to happen, but people need to sit down with their aging parents.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Especially the ones that are not the ones that have millions of dollars at the disposal. As much as these folks who are on Social Security, they got nothing and they're mortgaging their souls for this stuff.

[A]

Well, I've been hearing the shopping channel thing with aging for 30 years. Forever been going on forever. Okay, what I will tell you has increased is two things. Buy now, pay later. The four. Four easy payments for a freaking T shirt. A $9 T shirt, you get four payments on it. Okay? It's a problem here, people. And then the other thing is just technology has, you know, increased the size, the scale, the speed at which people get screwed.

[C]

Yeah, and it gives you a picture of it too.

[A]

Exactly. You know, Facebook gives you access to some good things, but also some that aren't. The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive. Between gifts, travel, and about a thousand limited time offers, your budget can start feeling anything but merry. And that's why I love this. Boost Mobile. Helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now, you'll pay just 10 bucks a month for your first two months. Then only 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk, text and data. Forever. No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense. Just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. So stop stressing over your budget and start saving. Instead, go to boostmobile.com Ramsey and unwrap the savings today. That's boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details. I get so confused by these sales and these sale holidays. So apparently we have Cyber Monday week. This is so oxymoronic. Okay, so Cyber Monday week, we have Cyber Monday, but it goes on all week.

[C]

This is America. Nothing's real, not even days and weeks.

[A]

We just convolute whatever the crap we want so we can sell some stuff. That's what we do. And we're. Hey, at Ramsey, we are the same way. We're going to do the exact same thing. So we have Cyber Monday week and the deals, they are in full swing. Got hardcover books, audio books, assessments, all with prices as low as 6. Shut up. You can't get stuff for $6. Yeah, you can. Here, don't wait. These deals end Sunday. Sunday the 12th, the 7th of December. I'm so confused. That's the Lord's day. Go to ramseysolutions.com store or if you're watching on YouTube and so forth, click in the show notes. I'm so caught up in this. Sherry's in Dallas. Hey, Sherry, how are you?

[C]

Good, Dave.

[A]

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[B]

So honored to speak to you guys today. I really need your advice.

[A]

We'll try.

[B]

I fell for the annuity scam and didn't know it was a scam until after I did it and after my 20 day window. Was over in October. We rolled $689,000 of my husband's 401k into a fixed annuity and they gave us a 5% bonus. So the value today is 724. The problem is the insurance company, as I'm sure you know, keeps 22% of that and the first year surrender charge is 13%. So my question is, do we stay until the surrender charges drop? Especially given, you know, I mean, this.

[A]

Is 30 days old. This is 30 days old.

[B]

It's, it's over that it was in October.

[A]

Well, okay. I mean it's 45 days old.

[B]

Yeah, he told me it's too late. He told me I had a 20 day window.

[A]

This is the insurance agent that told you this, this soldier, this crap?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Okay, good. All right. I don't know is the answer, but I want more information because I don't believe the person who sold me something that's bad to start with. That's not a good source of information. Fair enough. So go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pro and get one of our Smartvestor Pros there in your area that you can talk to and tell them what you've got and see if the insurance commissioner in Texas will grant you a little more leeway than that and you get 100 cents on the dollar back.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then get back out of it. So yeah, and then get this into some good investments that aren't so front loaded and crappy in performance.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So.

[B]

So do you recommend index fund?

[A]

I recommend a fruit jar before you do this. But, but the indexes fund is fine. It was a 401k and so you've got, you need to roll it into an ira. And based on the fact that it's in an ira, I'm probably going to put it in the four types of mutual funds that mine are in, which is a fourth in growth, growth in income, aggressive growth and international with long track records. That's what mine are in. And I'm 65. How old are you?

[B]

I'm 62.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

My husband is about to be 60.

[A]

Okay. So yeah, same category. And that's what mine are in because I'm going to leave it alone. And then you've got to start talking about moving some of it out of there before you get to 73 and a half because you're going to have RMDs required minimum distributions on your 401k. You're going to have that in the annuity as well. By the way because it's probably a qualified plan too. So. Meaning it's.

[B]

What do I do if they won't move it and we're stuck with the 13%.

[A]

Get the. I would take 13% hit and move it. Because you may make 13% in Q1. One quarter of the. Of the stock market might be 13%. You know, it's certainly going to. You know, you're gonna make your money back quick enough. But I'm gonna. I'm not going to accept Joe Bob's answer. Okay. I want somebody that knows the laws and the tolerance for this with the Texas Insurance Commission to put their hands on this. It may be. But if I'm you and it's going to cost me 13% in stupid tax to get this moved, you'll make that back up in good investments rather than being stuck in this thing. And the other thing is every day you wake up and you see the company name, you're pissed again. I don't want to live like that.

[B]

Mm. Yeah.

[A]

Now, let's recap. Let me.

[B]

Let me know it's okay.

[A]

Everybody makes mistakes. You were hoodwinked. So let me tell people what happened to you. And you tell me if I'm right. A person contacted you in your 60s about helping you create a very stable, predictable investment that would grow without taxes. And they are an investment advisor. They're a financial advisor. And the company name is an insurance company name, not an investment company name. But they posed as. And sell themselves as an investment advisor. Does that what happened?

[B]

Close. I actually reached out to them because they were promoted by a person in the church that's well known, that I trust and follow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they drop some big names of people that they've helped and whose money they manage. And so that's what got me.

[A]

Yeah, but it's. You did not place your money with an investment company. You place your money with an insurance company.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And going in, you were not planning on doing that. That's not what you signed up for. You signed up for. To do some investing.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And then they. But they. Insurance agents are licensed only to sell insurance products. Annuities are insurance products. They cannot sell mutual fund. And so this is what they sell is this crap. And they put people in and they can even sell a decent product, which is a variable annuity. But I wouldn't even put you in that because you're getting double feed. So it's just. Man, it's awful. I'm sorry you're having that. But if you only lose 13% I would be in good investments versus a fixed annuity. Fixed annuity is like a high yield savings account rate. It's going to pay you 4 or 5% if you make 12 or 14 on something in two years, you made your money back if that's all you make. And you ought to make more than that if you watch what you're doing and get some real help. So as a possibility anyway, depending on what the markets are doing. So, yeah, I'm out of there. Wow, that infuriates me, John.

[C]

That's. Well, it's somebody else getting preyed on in their 60s. Right? We talked about earlier.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Tell me this. So when she says 13%, is that of the growth since this thing was moved or is that over the 13% of the entire portfolio?

[A]

The entire portfolio.

[C]

Good gosh.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Because they're going to get their blankety blank commission no matter what.

[C]

That's a crazy amount.

[A]

Yeah, well, the insurance business is all front loaded. It's all. They all get their money on the front end of everything. And so these are frustrated life insurance agents is what they are. They're not real. And so sometimes you, I see these things, okay, the whales jumping on the Pacific life and we'll help you. You and you got people walking and they're holding hands in a rose garden and they're retiring and all this bull crap. It's, it's stupid butt life insurance stuff.

[C]

My daughter, you're not gonna believe me. My daughter, yesterday, her and I, I wouldn't watch one of, one of Bluey or whatever she wanted to watch. I wanted to watch football games. So she curled up on the couch next to me and they had a commercial and she said, what does that have to do with whatever it is they're selling? She's nine. And I was like, not a lot, Josephine, not a lot.

[A]

It's called branding. It's called branding. Yeah. If the, if the name of the company you're dealing with, your investment in air quotes with has insurance in the name, you're about to get screwed. That's a good way to remember it. Okay, done. So I mean, if you don't do. You don't get your muffler fixed at the transmission store, you don't do investments with insurance. Okay? It's that simple. We go, you know, we go qualified people who have securities licenses, not insurance licenses to help you do real investing.

[C]

I just can't believe a penalty on anything would be 13% of the total of your portfolio.

[A]

And how about this? 20 day or 26 days with a 20 day cutoff. No, ma', am, we can't do that now. What business does that?

[C]

Yeah, someone who is Home Depot will.

[A]

Take your lawnmower back two years after you bought it and give you a full refund. But not these bozos.

[C]

Hey, guys. It's open enrollment time for health insurance. And if you have ever felt overwhelmed trying to figure out your health care costs, you are not alone. For a lot of families, healthcare is one of the biggest line items in the budget. And it gets more confusing every year. But you don't have to settle. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a biblical and budget friendly alternative to health insurance and I am proud to recommend them. With chm, you are joining a community of believers who actually help share each other's medical bills. Yeah, it's true. Members have shared over $12 billion in healthcare costs since CHM started nearly 45 years ago. And it's simple. You choose your provider with no network limits. You submit your eligible bills online and other members help share your expenses. CHM has program options for every stage of life, whether you're single, self employed, or raising a family. Y', all. Open enrollment has a lot of people scrambling right now, but CHM lets you join anytime. So go to chministries.orgbudget to check them out. That's chministries.orgbudget.

[A]

It's that time of year. We're gonna be doing our special giving edition of the Ramsey show up here in December. It's one of our most popular shows ever. If you've ever been involved in giving some kind of generosity, it could be an outrageous tip that you gave or received. It could be all kinds of different things that happen. We want to hear from you. Go to ramseysolutions.com/put giving in the subject line and tell us your inspiring story of giving, giving and receiving both. Either one of those would be great. And we'll put you on December 18th with us. And we're going to do that annual giving show. It's one of our most popular shows. Very inspiring stories always coming in. Go to ramseysolutions.com/put giving in the subject line. Caleb is in Canada. Hi, Caleb, how are you?

[B]

Hey, Dave. How are you?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[B]

Looks like you've had. I had a month and a half longer to burn off that Thanksgiving turkey here in Canada, but I'm doing good. My wife and I are wondering how we can go from being intense to intentional. We have never really had any debt. No student loans, no car loans. We do have a house mortgage that. That we want to pay off aggressively. The only thing is standing in our way is we want to. My wife wants to travel. I want to pay down the house faster. I guess we're kind of at a standstill there on just what approach we should take of finding a good balance between enjoying our lives and continuing to be aggressive with getting our house paid off.

[A]

Okay, so when you do the budget, you have X number of dollars extra that we could either throw at the house or at travel, correct?

[B]

Correct. Yep.

[A]

Why don't you just try and experiment, split it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Half towards the house, half towards travel, and just see how that works for a little while. And then you may want to reset the percentages later. The two of you agreeing on them, not you persuading her that 100% needs to go towards house or her persuading you that 100% needs to go towards travel. Right. You just have some conflicting goals, both of which are good goals.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We obviously want to enjoy. We're pretty young. We want to enjoy our. Our lives, but we also would like that burden off of our shoulders of having the mortgage.

[A]

They're both really good goals. What's your household income, sir?

[B]

Combined, we bring about net. We bring around 110 homes.

[A]

What's the balance on the mortgage?

[B]

419,000.

[A]

Okay, so I'll run out some scenarios because you're the math nerd. You're going to want to do this and go, okay, the money that we have left in a budget is X, and if I put half of it towards the debt on the house will be done by year Y. And then you go, okay, that's. I don't know. I'll make up a number. $2,000 a month we can put towards travel. That's $24,000 a year. That's dad gum. Couple nice trips right there. Yeah, I mean, I made that number up. I don't know if you got 4,000 disposable or not, but whatever the number is. Right. Y' all work on it. But I would just try something. And as John says, just, you know, it's a muscle that's been undeveloped, underdeveloped, and now you're developing the travel muscle. And both of you, you know, she's getting some of her thing, you're getting some of yours. And if it's a smaller item that you're trying to decide, like buying a car versus a trip, you know, what we always do is just try to put which ones first, not which one.

[C]

Yeah. And the Thing about the Caleb, what you're describing here, I would want to know is there a place she wants to go or is this an identity? We want to be people who go travel. Because if it's a place we want to go, let's put a dollar amount on it. Let's do our research and let's, let's, like you said, let's split it until we've saved up for that.

[A]

I've always wanted to go on a.

[C]

Dot, dot, dot to Costa Rica or to Australia or whatever. Let's save up and do that. If she saying, no, no, I want to be somebody who always has a trip on the calendar somewhere I'm always planning.

[A]

That's what I was doing then that's.

[C]

A different, that's an identity. And let's be honest about what that's going to cost. And because it might be camping or it might be. No, I want to go to, you know, wherever, go to France and so getting to the brass tax of what that actually means.

[A]

No, that's good, that's good because yeah, I think you're right.

[C]

We, my wife and I, she would say I want to travel and I would say, okay, where do you want to go and how much that going to cost? And I missed what she was saying, which is, John, you're kind of boring and you like to go to bed and just sit at the house. And I want to be, I want to go out and see the world. And that was a different conversation. I just missed it.

[A]

Right? Yeah. But that is different than I've always wanted to see. Fill in the blank.

[C]

A thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And you can, you can budget that one.

[C]

That was easy.

[A]

Yeah, that's a trip versus a car versus a couch versus a whatever purchase. So again, all we're doing is every dollar still has an assignment. We just don't have to live on beans and rice. We can do some travel, we can buy a couch. We can upgrade the car. We can pay down on the, we can do all of these and just as long as we're together and we're doing a little bit on all of it. A little bit on the house extra. I don't want to do zero on the house extra. Or you can turn it up and turn it down. I'm going to turn it way down because we need to get a car. We need to upgrade this car. Mama's car is bad. You know, that kind of thing. And then you can, after we get the car, we'll turn it back up. You can give and go a little. And that's if you've got identified targets.

[C]

Well, in and beneath those targets is when I think the beauty of. I don't have a different. I don't have a good word for it, other than that's where true marital intimacy comes from. Because you get beneath the, hey, I want to pay this house off. Because I. I have this thing in my soul. I hate owing somebody money or I want to be someone who travels. I never got to travel as a kid, and there's so much in this amazing world. I want to go see some of it. You get to have those rich conversations, and they get off the spreadsheet and into spirit, which I think is a great conversation that many couples don't ever get to. They stop at the spreadsheet, and then they have a fight, and then they both go their separate ways.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I love those deeper conversations.

[A]

And that's good that he's calling.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

My wife and I are. We're. We're juggling this. We're arguing about this, and so that's good.

[C]

But tell her why you want. What it would mean to not have a house payment as a husband. Right. I would know. My wife is always taking care of. If something were to happen to me, that's a different conversation. And I just want to pay this off because it's the next baby step or, you know, the travel. So it's getting to that deeper level, and I think those make for great rich conversations.

[A]

Agreed. Chris is in Tampa, Florida. Hey, Chris. How are you?

[B]

Better than I deserve, Dave.

[A]

Good. How can we help?

[B]

I have a situation coming up. I have always had to pay, well, for the last three years, flood insurance because I've had a loan on my house, and I was required to carry it. I've recently paid off my house, and now I'm looking at. My flood insurance is going to be about somewhere between 45 and $4,800 for $250,000 worth of coverage with a $5,000 deductible.

[A]

Are you. Are you on the coast or on a waterway?

[B]

I am. I'm. Flood zone aches. I'm a moron.

[A]

That's not a moron. If you want to live on the beach, you want to live on the beach, but you just happen because of hurricanes.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And hurricanes happen in Tampa.

[C]

Yeah. Y' all got a doozy a year or two ago, right?

[B]

Yeah, we sure did. Two of them.

[A]

Back to back. In that case, I'm. In that case, I'm keeping it.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Okay. Even if I had money like for 250,000. I have 200 that we've been using to save up to move.

[A]

Well, you got to go through how many years? How many years you got to go through like 40 or 50 years or something to break even? 5,000. 5,250. Right?

[B]

Yeah. I was just looking if I could park that money in an account that would grow.

[A]

Not that fast.

[B]

And you. So you would, you would maintain your flood insurance at that?

[C]

I would just call it a sleep tax, dude.

[A]

If it was me, I would. And here's. Here's why. Okay, you guys remember Katrina and we were talking about it earlier and just destroyed New Orleans and the houses all got destroyed, but they didn't get destroyed by the hurricane. They got destroyed because the hurricane destroyed the levees. Everybody got wiped out by floods. State Farm paid nothing. They paid no one anything on hurricane insurance because they declared it all to be floods. Wow. And they were taken to court time and time and time again and they won every one of them. Same thing in Mississippi. Same exact thing happened Gulf coast of Alabama. Same exact thing. Because what happens is storm surge is considered a flood even though it's caused by a hurricane. And these people don't pay their claims. And so State Farm just walked away scot free. They led the charge because they're the largest. And then all the other goobers followed them and. But yeah, and they won the court cases. It wasn't a hurricane knocked the house down. It was a flood that was caused by hurricane. But that seems to be irrelevant. I don't know. Pisses me off every time I say it out loud.

[C]

Dude, it's just. You're making my blood boil, man. I just.

[A]

Well, I'm not a State Farm fan anyway, you know that. So there you go. All right, that just sealed it for me.

[C]

Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family time, giving back and remembering what the season is all about. And let's be real, it also means shopping, y'. All. If you're anything like me. December gets really busy and really expensive. It's harder to stay intentional with your spending. And that's why I love shopping on Amazon, especially this time of year. Named the lowest priced US online retailer for nine years running by Profitero, a third party analytics and research firm. Amazon's prices are up to 14% lower across top categories and beat competitors by up to 5% in key gift categories. Between amazing deals, stress free shopping and fast shipping, Amazon makes gift giving simpler. The holiday season a little brighter and Helps me keep my budget in check. That allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more could a busy mom ask for? So for more information about Amazon's low prices and easy, affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon today.

[A]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John DeLoney Ramsey personality number one best selling author and host of the Dr. John DeLoney show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Daniel's in New York City. Hi, Daniel, how are you?

[B]

Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Big fan of the show. Me and my girlfriend, we're both young. We'd like to start dating and move it. Well. Sorry, sorry. We have been dating for four years and we'd like to move in together and potentially, well, we'd like to get married. We're just curious on what your thoughts were.

[C]

The data is not in your favor.

[B]

Yeah, I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before.

[C]

I'm actually doing some research for a new marriage project and they actually have the cohabitation data longitudinal just for earned income and something as simple as household income over time is less than those who are married. Not to mention this, the statistics are on the. The relationship not making it over time. How long have you all been dating?

[B]

Four years.

[C]

Four years. Why not just pull the trigger? What are you waiting on?

[B]

I would like to do it. My parents are advising against it and they're saying that we should live together for six months to a year prior. Year. I would like to do it. It's just that I, I'm also heating their advices.

[C]

How old are you?

[B]

My parents. I'm 20.

[A]

25.

[B]

26. In a month.

[C]

Okay. So if you, if you already have your. If you're a guy who's going to listen to their parents, even if you disagree with them, why are you calling two strangers on a podcast?

[B]

I was just curious what your guys's opinions was.

[A]

You already knew.

[C]

Yeah. You already knew what we were going to say.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I started rattling off the data and you're like, yeah, I already knew that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We both think we're very like financially sound. We've saved up a bunch of money. So I'm just curious if that changes anything or. No.

[C]

No.

[A]

How old were you when you got married?

[C]

Me?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

24.

[A]

Okay. I was 22. Yeah. I've been married 43 years.

[C]

I'm. I'm 23.

[A]

I think you can respect your Parents and still disagree with them.

[C]

I do all the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people.

[A]

I respect John and I disagree with him sometimes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We disagree all the time. And I'm usually right. That's even hard.

[A]

Really? Yeah.

[C]

Let me take this. Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl?

[B]

Yes, sir.

[C]

Okay. At some point you're going to have to say, as for me and my household.

[A]

Yeah, your mom and dad no longer get to tell you what to do. When you're a man, my son, they can only advise you.

[B]

Right. So my next question.

[A]

And neither do podcasters get to tell you what to do, you still have to do what you want to do.

[B]

Yes, sir. Understood. So we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income, some for engagement ring or rings. Oh, in our area for like New York City and Long island, it's really expensive for rent. We've traveled to a few cities. We, we just, other than like, we figure you guys recommend the quarter of your income for living expenses. Can we permit up to like 35 where we are? We're both in the hospitality entry level positions. We graduated together with associate's degrees.

[A]

Okay, well, that's a completely different set of questions separate from what you called about, right?

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Okay. All right. So yes, one month of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. And yes, one fourth of your take home pay is the most you need to put into rent, not for household expenses, but into rent, because you don't create a sustainable situation. You're short on money, you're house poor when Your rent is 35 or 40 or 50% regardless of where you live. So if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years and you take on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you. But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take home, you got a bad formula, you're going to struggle with that. That one.

[C]

Oh, but they're in New York, so all rent's gonna be free from now on. That they're gonna be good.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No, too soon.

[A]

Yeah. Plus or minus the rats. Yeah.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Okay. And I'm not talking about the rodents, but yeah. Okay. Yeah, I, I, I don't know, it's no, Daniel, the math still has to math even in New York. And so yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do it may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business, if you can't move up quickly enough with your associate's degrees into sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility too. Lots of people live leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began. People have done that until they can afford to do it. And so, you know, and New York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So literally New York, Tokyo, London, San Francisco, I mean, these are, this is the list, right? Paris, these are very uber expensive to live in. Not just because they're recognizable major metro areas, but just stinking expensive, period. And so try renting a flat in London. That'll get your attention. Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up, Scott?

[B]

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

My wife and I, we are almost done with baby step two. I'm 49 years old and I was approached today at work to purchase a long term care policy. It's nursing home care. Yeah, it says if you become chronically ill, lifetime benefit term will pay you 4%.

[A]

You don't need it.

[B]

That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main.

[A]

The main deal is long term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. The percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So we don't recommend buying it until you're 60. And if you're 60 and you got $10 million, don't buy it. Just self insure, Just pay for the nursing home or pay for in home care or whatever you're gonna do. Okay. But if you're, you know, you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old and the nursing home's gonna be 300 grand over three years, it's gonna crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically the guy dies before the lady 75% of the time. And so papa goes in the nursing home, uses up all the money and then dies, leaves mama broke. That's the one 60 years old that needs long term care insurance. You don't need it at 4, 40, 49, 49. You don't need it till you're 60. I'm 65, I got plenty of money. I didn't buy it.

[B]

That's where I was, I was a little hesitant and I have A life insurance policy. Now a term life, that's done, I guess until I'm. Yeah, it's at 75, it ends. I also have insurance through, through the military. Should I be purchasing any other type of.

[A]

Well, life insurance, you need about 10 to 12 times your income on you to cover your family if you die. And that's taking care of your wife and kids. When you're 75, the kids hopefully will be grown and gone. They'll be grown, hopefully they'll be gone. So that's the game plan. And you'll be out of debt and have some money. So with some financial planning, you outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need some life inside insurance. Hey guys. You know those too good to pass up holiday promos? Well, they can be great. But with every spin of the digital wheel, the newsletter sign up the coupon code, you're giving away your data. You think that info just stays with the store? I doubt it. It goes into the corners of cyberspace where data brokers grab it, repackage it and sell it to spammers, scammers and generally bad people. The FTC just reported consumers lost over $12.5 billion to fraud last year. And that's not just a number. That's your money, your time and your privacy. And that's why I recommend Deleteme, your digital cleanup crew. The Deleteme privacy pros dig through hundreds of these data broker sites. They scrub your info and they keep it. Which means fewer weird robo calls, fewer spam texts. And it's the gift that keeps on giving because it's an annual subscription. And Ramsey listeners can get 20% off those annual plans at JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout. Do it today. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey. Code Ramsey. Foreign's in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Hey, John, how are you?

[B]

Good morning.

[A]

Hey, what's up?

[B]

I've got a bit of a situation. We were actually starting to think about a reverse mortgage and I wanted. I know you're always gay, so I want to hear what, what you're going to be on this is I've got a daughter, 32 years old, who became a widow and a single mom. And we've got a. Right now she's working one day a week from the office and four days a week at home. And that's kind of working out. But they want to move her back to the office and that's kind of unsustainable. So we're kind of thinking about trying to get her off the workforce for a couple years until the kids get a little bit bigger. Bigger.

[C]

How old are those kids?

[B]

One is about 20 this month and the other one is about 30. Three months.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Okay. So two years and three years.

[B]

Yep, that's right.

[A]

Okay. I thought you were getting ready to say 20 years. I was about to freak out. Okay.

[C]

What happened to her husband?

[B]

No, it's a motorcycle crash.

[A]

Oh, gosh, man.

[C]

I'm sorry.

[A]

What she do for a living?

[B]

She works in the education system. She helps disabled kids do exams.

[A]

Obviously no life insurance.

[B]

Well, his debts pretty much were insured. The house is paid for and most of his debts were covered. She doesn't have monthly income from any. But quite a bit of the. The debts were recovered.

[A]

Okay, all right. But he didn't have life insurance to provide for her, just to cover the debts. Okay. Yes, some of them. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. So it was like a couple miscellaneous bills and house insurance or the house mortgage was the biggest one.

[C]

Is she asking to leave the workforce? Because my gut tells me this is not a great idea.

[B]

No, no. Me and my wife have come up with that idea. We're kind of seeing. This is when she has to go back for four or five days a week to the office. It's. It's too long of a day for the kids to be gone that long. Like on the day she works, we go and take care of the kids. Later in the day is.

[C]

But I mean, you're talking about a two or three year challenge here until the kids are in school age.

[B]

Right, Right.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I would sit down and have that conversation with her, but I a. I wouldn't put myself at financial risk that she might have to clean up someday, number one. But number two, it feels like you guys are watching your daughter grieve deeply. This sudden and unfathomably traumatic loss, and y' all are itching to do something to help and support, but it's. It's something that she hasn't even asked to do.

[B]

Yeah, well, I know she won't ask.

[A]

You know, that doesn't matter.

[C]

Taking her out of it, taking her out of any support, any social circle and work, especially as a teacher, is. Your friends, are there like other adults are there taking her out of a purpose outside of these two years with.

[A]

The kids, what does she do again?

[C]

She. She works with disabled kids. Yeah, kids with special needs.

[A]

Okay. She works for special needs kids from her home four days a week. How does she do that?

[B]

It's all online. And most of the tests are done online with COVID They tried to move as much as they could to.

[A]

There's not Covid.

[B]

No, I know, but.

[A]

Oh, this is Canada.

[B]

I forgot the office. Yeah, I know, I know. And our money is.

[C]

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it, especially when conversation with her.

[A]

It feels like a temporary solution for a permanent problem. Or a permanent solution for a temporary problem. I said it backwards.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so does she live in your community?

[B]

We're about 45 minutes apart.

[A]

Okay. Can you keep the kids?

[B]

Oh, she wouldn't. Part of the kids.

[C]

No. When she goes back to work full.

[A]

Time while she's working during the day instead of daycare.

[B]

That would put us there five days a week instead of what we're doing now at 2 or 3. And she likes dropping them off in the morning and then we pick up in the afternoon on the day she's not home.

[C]

Here's what y' all aren't metabolizing though. How long ago did her husband pass away?

[B]

13 months.

[C]

Okay. It feels like there's still a pause on. Every single solitary thing has changed.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And I say this with as big a heart as I could possibly say it, but I spent my career sitting with folks who's the worst thing has happened to them. Like what you want is. Is different now. I wanted to drop these kids off. I did. I don't want their life to change that much. I want to be able to keep this job in this town and this house. I want all those things and all that is good to want. But every single thing is different now. And so what we want, especially for the next couple of years until those kids get into school age, is gotta go out the window to what do we have to do?

[A]

So before I put my personal home at risk in my retirement years, I would babysit the children. That's what I'm saying. All day, every day for five days a week for two years. I would rather give that up than give up, step into a reverse mortgage and screw up your home mortgage heading into retirement. Retirement.

[C]

Or one or both of you will move into the house for five days a week and you'll go home to your house on the weekends for the next 24 months or something.

[A]

Just say for 24 months we're going to step in and help you get this done and look for another job.

[C]

Right. Or possibly you have to move closer now. We have to sell this house because everything is different now.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that sounds so callous and ugly. I'm not trying to be ugly at all. But everything's different now. And what we want becomes second to the reality that we're faced with.

[A]

Yeah. So. So she's not going to get her perfect life back. Everything's not going to be back together by you throwing some money at it.

[C]

Yes. And her taking. Stepping out of the workforce, all of the adults in her life, all of her support network and just staying at.

[A]

Home for two years and the meaning that serving special needs kids is giving her all that's gone. Yeah. And she needs that right now. Yeah. So, no, I'm keeping her in the workforce and figuring out how that's what I would do. And it could be a change of jobs, it could be a change of location, it could be helping with the baby's sitting, all those kinds of things. But. But subsidizing her doing nothing is not a good plan. No, no, that. That's. We're both in agreement on that. Hey, thank you for the call and I'm so sorry. Y' all have been through this. What a horrible, horrible thing. Okay, folks, I'm a sidebar, and it's going to sound really callous, but here's the thing. When you're 30 years old, even in Canada, you can buy half a million dollars in life insurance for the cost of a pizza. So go to Zander Insurance right now and make sure you have your term life insurance in place. Yeah, they did a commercial. You can say whatever you want to say. I've been endorsing this company because I think you need to go to zander insurance for 30 freaking years. So for the dadgum cost of a pizza, I don't have this conversation. I just had. So we had a young lady in Financial Peace University. We videoed it and put it in the video with her permission, put it in the old class that we used to have that. She and her husband were 23 years old. They went through financial Peace University, went and bought a million dollars worth of life insurance. And he got hit by a car three weeks later.

[C]

Good grief.

[A]

And she gave birth to their new baby for like a month and a half after he died. Yeah. And she comes on the video with and says, this is what having the. This is what having a million dollars worth of life insurance means to me right now. I'm 23 year old widow with a baby and I can't get my husband back. I can't do any of those things. But for just a few dollars, you know, this is an act of love. I'm set up. I'm set up and yeah, that's the problem because we don't know when we're gonna go. And you might get old and ugly like me or you might go out on a motorcycle like him early. That's not, you know, so. And it's not to besmirch that young man at all. He obviously had some insurance, took care of the debts for the family. She's got a paid for house. He did a lot of good stuff there. There's no question about that. But I'm just saying, guys, this is opportunity to remind y' all that it just doesn't take a lot to completely set a whole different conversation up. There's no good conversations when someone dies or gets killed in their 20s. There's no good conversations when they got little kids, a little wife, little husband left at home and they're sitting there with a half million dollars or a million dollars or they're sitting there with nothing and having these conversations about how to come out of the workplace to take care of two, two littles. Man, it's incredible. Everywhere you turn this time of year, someone's telling you to swipe a card now and pay later. But that mindset always leads straight, straight to debt and post holiday stress. Fairwinds Credit Union takes a different approach. They're here to help you win with money. Fairwinds doesn't push credit cards. They help you build savings and stay debt free, just like we teach with the baby steps. And to do that, Fairwinds created the Smart Bundle with Ramsey fans in mind. It's more than a bank account. It's a tool to help you live live with intention. The Smart Bundle includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the exclusive Ramsey Beweird debit card which says debt is normal, be weird right on the front. So every time you swipe it this Christmas season, it's a reminder that you're choosing a different path to spend no more than you actually have. To avoid that January budget hangover and to be free from debt traps, go to fairwinds.org Ramsey to open your Smart Bundle and get your Ramsey be weird debit card today. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA. Okay, if you're going to win with money, you have to tell it what to do instead of wondering where it went. If you don't know where all your money went in 2025, that's normal. But normal sucks. We don't be normal. Next year can be different. Get a head start by downloading every dollar. The app EveryDollar helps you build a personalized plan so you can work. The Ramsey principle coaches you to find extra money and put it all to work to beat debt and become wealthy. Answer a few questions. Many people find thousands of dollars on average in just the first 15 minutes. Every dollar still has the same great budgeting features, but it's also going to help you work. The Ramsey plan now new and improved. Don't go into the year feeling broken, stressed. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Right now, James is in Rhode Island. Hi James, how are you?

[B]

Good, Dave. How are you guys doing?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[B]

All right, so I'm 40 year old guy. I got a fiance and a baby who turned two in July. And my fiance and I, we have three Airbnbs that are doing really well. Four years into it last year we grossed about 102,000. This year we're forecasting to do about 127,000 gross on the three Airbnb with a 62% profit margin. Day job is hospitality sales. I make about 100, 120,000 a year. She is a psychologist, she makes about 110. So our issue is there are these micro lofts and another one is available, but it's in a super historic old building. And I'm thinking about getting a fourth Airbnb but the banks are telling me that I got to put 40% down. They're going for a about two and a quarter. So I want to hear your take. If I should get another profitable Airbnb and have it under the same roof as all my other ones or is that considered maybe too high risk?

[A]

Okay, well, I not sure you called the right show. I'm not sure that you know what we do, but so I own several hundred million dollars in real estate. Okay. I love real estate as an investment. I went broke in the real estate business in my 20s, if you haven't heard the story. And the way I did that was I borrowed too much money. And the banks called our notes because we were in a high risk scenario. The Airbnb business is basically the hotel business. It's a very high labor, intense, you know, a lot of hassle. So the money that you're earning on those Airbnbs, you're working your heiney off to get that money and you're probably, you're working some other people's heiney off because it's a lot of house.

[B]

I'm the maintenance man, I'm the housekeeper. I'M the guy checking them in.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you have a two year old away, so.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah. Why don't you pick up golf, too? Oh, my God. You know, I mean, you ain't got time to do nothing, so I don't know that you have the bandwidth to add another one on your personal number one. Number two, the risk with Airbnbs is, as you probably know, and I don't know where it stands in Providence, Rhode island, but many, many hoas many neighborhoods, many entire municipalities are passing zoning to stop it because they're disruptive to the neighborhood. And so I know a lot of people that have lost the ability to run an Airbnb on a property they bought for an Airbnb. And in a historic setting, that's very possible.

[B]

Right. It's any unique building. It's the oldest mall in America where there's retail on the first floor. Floor on the second and third floor was repurposed to Airbnb. So it is in a commercial zone.

[A]

Okay, so that means the risk of them rezoning it and keeping you from.

[B]

Doing it is less to my understanding, yes.

[C]

Or it's going to take one new tenant downstairs that's a big tenant that says, I don't want people living upstairs.

[A]

Well, we're all on the board now. They're already got residential in there. It's just a matter of whether it's nightly rental.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Residential, because it's a hotel in a sense. So I don't know. You're doing some things I don't want to do, and I don't recommend people do things I don't want to do. So number one thing you're doing is you're buying property with someone you're not married to. Very dangerous. Number two, you're going in debt to do it. Very dangerous. Number three, you have a high risk business model that's dependent upon someone else called Airbnb. Very dangerous. Number four, you have to do all the freaking work and you're getting ready to add 25% to the workload, going from three to four and you have a two year old. Very dangerous. So that's what I meant by I don't know if you've been around as much. And I'm not trying to be mean to you. I just think that all you have seen in this is the upside. You've not considered any of the downsides. And that's the way I was in my 20s and it's what caused me to go broke. And so now I'm always looking I'm not negative thinker. I buy. I mean, like I said, I own hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate. I love real estate, but I have low hassle real estate. I don't. I don't own a single Airbnb. And we've got enough residential. I easily could do that. But we don't want to screw with it. It's just too dad gum much work for the money. Too much drama for the money. And so we'd rather make the money, you know, a little slower and with a lot less hassle factor. And we don't borrow money. 100% of our real estate's paid for. I don't borrow money to buy real estate. So I'm a fan of the category of real estate. But after that, I've kind of given you some things to think about. So until you've thought through all of those things and make sure that you've decided how you're going to own what ownership vehicle you're going to own this in with someone that you're not married to. Oh, real dangerous, you know, that, that you get yourself in all kinds of messes here. And I think that's what the bank is smelling, and that's why they're wanting a huge downstroke. But, you know, a good way to look at any business opportunity too, James, is to scale it in your mind. And if it doesn't scale, then don't grow it. Meaning if it works for 4, 40 Airbnbs, we might do 4. If it works for 4, but not 5 or not 10, then maybe we shouldn't do 4.

[C]

Why is that?

[A]

Well, because it's going to. The idea is not scalable to where you get out of being the maintenance man.

[C]

You just have to keep absorbing more work and more work and more work.

[A]

And pretty soon you're going to go, I want to quit my job and be Mr. Airbnb.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And that's not.

[C]

Then your one Airbnb app change or one Airbnb municipality change, or you're one.

[A]

Yeah. Apple decides they're not going to support the app anymore.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

With 13 point whatever. Oh, my crap. You know, I mean, all kinds of people. I mean, it caught that. Cause that little move right there cost us about $20 million two years ago. So you know that just because Apple decided to cough and so you know all that stuff. So these are things you can't anticipate, and you leave yourself vulnerable to it when you're just living right on the wire, when you're Right on the edge. And then you just keep adding to it, keep adding to the plate till the food falls off, you know, and that's, that's what I heard here is a really super busy guy. Well, ambitious guy.

[C]

You said this. And man, this has become increasingly, I felt it heavier and heavier. I have a very real lived experience being in the workforce during 2008, 2009, and there seems to be a lot of folks who have entered into 2010 to 2025. And it's been seemingly mostly upside. It's just been win after win after.

[A]

Win after win, plus or minus co and.

[C]

Yeah, plus or minus co. And there's the assumption that's just going to keep going that way and there's no. So, I mean, it's tough to tell somebody, hey, you have to be prepared for when this thing goes south a little bit or when the roller coaster takes a, you know, goes down. And man, people don't, don't have the psychology for it right now.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, if you've got your thing based on the Airbnb income of 4 and suddenly they don't rent for 4 months, you're in bankruptcy.

[C]

Whereas if you own them all in cash, you're annoyed.

[A]

Exactly. You're. Well, are you put re printers in?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you get out of the Airbnb business and you move on, you know, and that's, it's not a big deal.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, but yeah, this is, it's a problem. Yeah. So no, I'm, I, I, I like James because he's ambitious and he's going after it, he's going for it. I want to support that, but I, I believe in being a nightmare killer, not a dream. The last thing you need this holiday season is more stuff collecting dust or tech that keeps you glued to screens and up too late. You need better sleep. And that's what you'll get with Casper. Their mattresses are made for deep, uninterrupted rest that keep you cool and comfortable. So you wake up feeling ready, not wrecked. Because rest is not a luxury, it's an investment. And the ROI is your well being. Go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 30% off all mattresses and up to 35% off everything else. That's Casper.com Ramsey promo code Ramsey exclusions above supply. The Ramsey Show. Questions. The day is sponsored by Y Refi. You can't change the past, but you can change your next move. Why? Refi helps people with defaulted private student loans. Refinance to a payment that fits their budget. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's Y W or that's the letter Y r e f y.com Ramsey not in all states.

[C]

Today's question comes from Amy in Mississippi. Amy writes, I have been dating a kind, loving man for the last three years. We begun talking about marriage and moving in together. We both like the idea of keeping my house in my name and his house in his name and living the next 10 years in my house and then the last 10 years of our lives in his house. This is all assuming we both live to be 80 and we can live independently. I've been thinking about our wills and trust, and currently I have all of my assets to be left to my two adult children, and he has all of his assets to be left to his two adult children. Considering we're getting married so late in our lives, is it wrong to leave everything to our children and not to each other? Especially if we're on the same page about doing it this way?

[A]

No, it's perfectly fine. Just make sure you've taken care of the one left behind. I mean, you know, so we hear the stories of, okay, you're in his house, he dies and leaves it to his kids, and they want you to move out in three days because they want that money, they want that house. And so, you know, you need to kind of figure out a way. Well, they wouldn't do. Oh, yeah, they will. Oh, yeah, they will. Yes, they will, too. So you have no idea. So I'm fine with y' all leaving everything, but just figure out a way that he is cared for if he happens to be living in your home, that he gets to live there a year or something and that there's some. And then make sure he's gonna have enough money to eat if you die before him and vice versa, as long as you've made sure the other one's in good shape financially and is gonna be okay. But if you've got enough money that you're independent, if he dies, you're fine, you die, he's fine. Then that's perfectly fine to do this, but just make some clear communications and some clear things in the will to make sure that you don't get tossed out of the house on short notice or something. I don't want you living there 10 years, but after he dies. But if the intent was for the kids to get the house, but. But 10 minutes is not okay either. So you got to kind of think about this stuff. And don't just assume everybody's Going to be nice. Write it down and tell everyone what it all says and then tell them they're going to do that and then they will. That's what they have to do. So they might as well be nice. You know that. That. But I don't have any problem with that. You.

[C]

Now would you recommend. I've never even even thought about this question. Let's say two 65 year olds, two 70 year olds in this situation financially established or getting remarried. Is this a situation where you'd still have both people put their money in one checking account or are we living pretty independently at this point?

[A]

And I would operate the household off of one checking account because we're not talking about the incomes, we're talking about the. I mean that I would combine my income. Yeah. And live as one household. But then if one of you dies then that the other one's income is going to go away either because the investments were left to the kid or the pension dies with the person. There you go. Right. So you're back to your half or your portion to live on. And you know, just make sure you're able to live on your part. He's able to live on his part when something happens. If you are then this is very clean and you could even. This is a situation where you could even do a prenup.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And then it'd be fine.

[C]

I'm thinking about this in real time. I like the idea of us sounds like they're 60 joining our. Yes. Joining our money together and saying we have two light bills, we have two water bills. Because we have two houses together.

[A]

Yeah. What are they doing with the other house during the 10 years they're not.

[C]

Going to rent it out would be my guess.

[A]

That's a. Somebody's up for a renovation. Yeah. So you gotta have time to renovate the house that you weren't living in before. You have to move back into it because you've been rented for 10 years.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That's a decade.

[A]

That's something to think about. But that's the only part of this. Just have a real clear cut and think through the details and write them all out as a part of the plan, as a part of the will. And then talk about it with both your kids. You're getting everything but she gets to stay here for six months. And you know this and so on. So you can, you know, you. That all of that is possible.

[C]

And if one of these houses appreciates 200% if we have what happens in your name. That's in your name. That's right.

[A]

Yeah. You win.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Your investments appreciate 200%. His don't.

[C]

Or one of yours falls off a cliff. That's.

[A]

Yeah, that's what happened. That's how it worked out. Elisha is with us in Knoxville. Hi, Elisha. How are you?

[B]

I'm good. Can you guys hear me?

[A]

Yes, sir. What's up?

[B]

Hi, I'm calling about the question. My in laws want us to pay them back for the money they spent on my wife. Unfinished college semester.

[A]

One semester, yes. Why?

[B]

Well. Well, I don't really know where to start with this, but I started dating. We got married a couple months ago. When I started dating her, she was in college for engineering, and I pretty quickly found out that she absolutely hated it. She was miserable, and that also made me miserable. She also has a heart condition. Inappropriate sinus tachycardia. And it was making that way worse. She also got really sick in the spring semester of 25. She came down with double pneumonia and was just unable to keep up with classes, so she dropped the semester. And currently she's a ballroom dance teacher. She doesn't have plans to go back. We've got married since then. Her college up until that point has been paid for by a fund left by her grandfather, but her parents say that they were unable to get the money for that. And from what I am told, that's about $6,000 that they want us to pay them back. And it's not a lot of money, but it's a lot of money for us.

[A]

No.

[B]

Wild.

[C]

Are they. Are they. Are they objectively not good people, or did they not like her marrying you?

[A]

You're really not happy that you got married?

[B]

They. Correct. Correct. This first came up, actually, as a way to stop us from getting married.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the main reason that they were against us getting married is they. For. Since she was, like, 10. They really pushed her to go to engineering. And when I was talking to them to get permission to propose, I. Her mom specifically asked me that I need to tell her that her degree is the most important thing in the world to me, and I couldn't do that. I got permission from her dad, but not her mom, and her mom really doesn't like me. And we haven't heard anything about this since we got married. How long have you been married before then? We've been married since August 2nd.

[A]

And how old are you?

[B]

21.

[A]

Okay. All right, honey, this is not gonna go well.

[C]

Yeah. Sorry, man.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just. I want. I want to do everything this Is not.

[A]

This is not about tuition. This is about control.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

This is a flex, the ultimate flex. And so you just, you just have to look at them and smile and say, you know, I'm sorry, we can't do that.

[C]

Or really her, their daughter needs to do that.

[A]

Yeah. Just tell mom, sorry, we can't do that. Well, I'm sorry, we can't do that. Don't get into an argument. Don't try to explain it. Don't try to get into some kind of moral construct because there's not one. This has nothing to do with moral constructs.

[C]

And by the way, are her parents in charge of this money from this fund? Or could your wife go back to school in five years if she wants to go be a therapist or something? Something.

[B]

So her aunt is managing the fund. I don't know how much money there is left in it, to be honest. They recently told my brother in law that he has to stop going to the school he's currently going to and go to the community college near them because they. There isn't enough money for him to go there.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

That's what happened. That's why they didn't get their $6,000 because there's not any money in there.

[C]

Let me see this as blunt as I can. The relationship that you think you're trying to preserve for your wife is already gone. Has never been there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. If you repay this, these are still two very unhappy parents.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And then there'll be another flex and another flex.

[B]

Anything at all. Or would it end up.

[C]

It just kicks the can down the road. It will come up when you have your first kid or will come up in an.

[A]

There's nothing to do.

[C]

No. And you don't have $6,000. That's what's even.

[A]

I'm sorry, we can't do that. Yeah. I would not say why. I would not say when. I would not put terms to it. It's a simple closed ended one sentence reaction. Mom, I know you'd like for us to do this. I'm sorry, we can't. That's it. It's over and it's not going to go well. Dude, these guys are going to go off like rockets because this is a flex that's a boundaryless power play. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. In the Fair wins Credit Union Studio Dr. John DeLoney, Ph.D. in counseling. Ramsey personality number one best selling author. He's my co host. Today open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Warren is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Warren. How are you?

[B]

I'm good. How are you doing?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[B]

We make a decent income, but we're living paycheck to pay check and I got to get this figured out so I was calling for help.

[A]

Okay, cool. So what's a decent living? What do y' all make?

[B]

Well, it now we're making about $140,000 a year collectively. I was laid off for. I'm not laid off for three years. I was out of full time work for about three years and was doing part time work. I recently took a full time job with as a town job. She makes around 90,000 and I make around 50. Right. At 50,000. So that brings us to 140.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The challenge is we make our mortgage and we make a car payment.

[A]

And how much is your mortgage by.

[B]

The time we pay everything? Mortgage is 2187 and that's with an adjustable rate mortgage of a 5.6.

[A]

And what's the car payment?

[B]

Car payment is 465.

[A]

What's the other car payment?

[B]

It's a. We don't have another car payment. I drive a 2003 Corolla.

[A]

Gotcha. Okay, so what do you owe on the car? That's. That's a 465.

[B]

29,000.

[A]

Okay. And what other dead of you got?

[B]

We have one credit card of $4,000 and then we have my daughter's college loan. Which is 50,000.

[A]

Yeah. Parent plus loan or what?

[B]

Yes, parent plus loan.

[A]

Okay. And you're paying on that now?

[B]

We just started. That's 316.

[A]

So she's graduated.

[B]

Yes, she's working.

[A]

Okay, and what else?

[B]

We have a water treatment system. That's 109 that we owe 6,000 on that. And outside of that we. That's it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

From a debt perspective.

[A]

Yeah. Do you have any money? So.

[B]

We have about 4,000 in savings and we have a little over 500,000 in retirement.

[A]

Good. Good for you. Okay. All right. Well what you've described, Warren, is normal. The only thing is around here we say normal sucks because all the money comes in, all the money goes out and all the names are changed to protect the innocent. You make freaking $140,000 a year and you feel bad, broke.

[B]

Yeah, true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm 56, she's 54. And we're now to the point. Well, you know, you know we want to retire when we're 67.

[A]

How long have you been back to work?

[B]

A month.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I got my first paycheck Next week.

[A]

Good. Good. Okay. All right. Good. So now you're like, okay, we got to fix this. We've been kind of treading water for a while. While now. I'm back in the saddle, and let's tear into this. Now what do we do? If that's what you're asking, we can help you. The prescription is rather. The prescription that the doctor is going to give you is rather painful, though. We're going to teach you to live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and give like no one else. And so what I will tell you to do is for the two of you to sit down tonight, open up the app everydollar, and start filling out what you're going to do with this month's month money. And the two of you be in agreement on what you're going to do with this much money. You stop all retirement savings temporarily. You stop eating out. You stop going on vacation. You're broke and deeply in debt, and you have a mess to clean up so that you don't retire and have to eat dog food, because that's where you're headed. If you don't fix this mess. House is okay. The rest of this debt has got to get paid off. And you've got $85,000 worth of debt. And you got to quit buying crap on credit. You need to get the credit cards out and cut them up. List your debts, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and attack the little one like your life depends on it. But part of what you're going to have to go through emotionally is you're still recovering emotionally from the time that you didn't work for a while, which took a little bit of your confidence away. I hear it in your voice.

[B]

Yeah, you're right.

[A]

And so I want you to get like you're 18 again. Stick your chest out, throw your shoulders back, and get after it again. Okay.

[B]

Okay, I can do that.

[A]

The fact that you didn't work for a little while is not the end of the world. You're working now. You're a good man. You're calling. How can I take care of my family? I got to clean up this mess from my daughter's college tuition. I got a car that's expensive. We've been spending some money on our credit cards, and we bought a water treatment thing we couldn't afford because we didn't pay for it. That's how I know we couldn't afford it. So now we got to stop all that crap and get in attack mode and clean up this debt. So making 140, if you paid 40 on your debts, you'd be debt free other than the house in two years. So you ought to be debt free in 18 months. But you're going to have no life during that 18 months. And you and your wife got to lock arms and go, we're fighting this like the devil is at the door. Door.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And if you fight it with an intensity. Yeah. She'll go side by side with you. She stuck with you through this last batch and let's get it, man. And that's the thing. So it's a reset of your emotions after the unemployment thing. So I went broke in my 20s and lost everything because I was stupid. And one of the things I lost with it was a bunch of my confidence and my self esteem. And I had to rebuild it in a different way. That wasn't just arrogance and cockiness, but instead I rebuilt it just based. Based on solid wisdom gradually. And so I ended up becoming a different man, the other side of going broke. And that's how I can hear that in your voice. Because I had it in mind. I recognize it. So you're a good man.

[B]

I appreciate it.

[A]

You're a good man. You're a good dad, you're a good husband. You're not afraid of work and you can do.

[C]

You can do hard stuff. You drive an O3 Corolla, man. Bro, I've been there.

[B]

Got 300,000 miles on it.

[C]

And you know the problem with that Corolla? It's got. It's going to go another 600,000 miles before it dies on you, man.

[B]

The only thing I have to pay for is to paint the. Paint it.

[C]

So yeah, you're in.

[B]

It's mine. In the parking lot. I never leave.

[C]

Will your wife sell that car?

[A]

Her expensive one?

[B]

Yeah, she will. Yeah.

[A]

May want to do that to accelerate this process to get your life back. Because if you didn't have any payments but a house payment and you two were together doing a budget every month before the month begins, giving every dollar an assignment, you're going to start. See margin in there. And that margin will allow you to build wealth that after you get out of debt and that margin will allow you to increase your generosity and I'll guarantee you that in your late 60s you could be a millionaire. If you'll follow through on this, we'll do it.

[B]

Our conversation this weekend was being a good steward on what God has given us.

[C]

And here's the thing.

[B]

A lot.

[C]

Here's what's cool you're calling here in the beginning of December. Here's a way the cosmos is going to call your bluff. Instead of doing Christmas presents for you this year, I want you to, I want you to get that four thousand dollar credit card gone.

[B]

I can do that.

[C]

And that can be the great gift y' all give each other is full commitment. And that's going to be better than any trinket or any knickknack you're going to get under the tree.

[A]

Amen. The two adults.

[C]

That is the two grown ups.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, hang on. We'll get you signed up for the Every dollar premium. We'll give it to you as our gift. We want to be part of your story because you're going to turn this around. I can feel it. It's one of the best times of the year. Year. But it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card and suddenly it's January and you got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it went with our budgeting app, EveryDollar. EveryDollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also also helps you find extra margin in your budget. Thousands of dollars of it. And every day will coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than ever. So while most people will be starting in January with a taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be winning. Start every dollar for free by downloading the. You ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still not getting anywhere? Like you're on a treadmill.

[B]

Run, run, run, run, run, run, run.

[A]

Get nowhere. You're not alone. Maybe you've made the changes and you've had a few wins, but something still feels off. It's not because you failed. It isn't because money is just math. It's because money's also emotional. That emotional fight can quietly sa or on the other hand, propel it. Because you get to be the hero in this story, boys and girls. That's exactly what Jade Washoff's new book, what no one tells you about Money is all about. It's the first Ramsey book, takes an honest, in depth look at the emotional side of money and it gives you the tools to win your battle. You can do this, it gives you practical tools to make progress for good. Pre order right now for $24.99. Get over $100 in free bonus items including the enhanced audio, which is amazing. The early access to the ebook, instant access to an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade Warshaw and book exclusive three week online book club and live Q and A with Jade. All of this if you pre order, pre order [e-mail] store. If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click in the description. John this book is absolutely amazing. I am so proud of Jeff Jade. It is the real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. She just speaks from the authority of experience.

[C]

Dude, I had her on my show and it's one of my favorite episodes of all time. It hasn't been released yet, but I've traveled the country with her. I've shared meals with her and her husband Sam. They're good friends of ours and I did not know the depth of the story behind the money.

[A]

And if you are tells it all, baby.

[C]

If you are one of those families across the country that is. Is struggling with the math. But part. And you're also dealing with the guilt part and the shame part. And man, she unravels that in this book. You gotta get it. It's, it's, it's next level. It's so good, man. It's so good.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[C]

Gifted, gifted writer and storyteller.

[A]

Yes, she is. Yes, she is. And you're gonna, you're gonna find out that she understands right where you are, but also to show you how to go win. And that's one of our specialties around here. So very, very good stuff. Good tools to win. Casey's with us in Birmingham, Alabama. Hey, Casey. What's up?

[B]

Hey, how are you, Dave?

[A]

Great. How can we help?

[B]

Appreciate you taking my call. So my wife and I just recently found out that she was pregnant. It's not like we were necessarily trying to avoid it, but we were not planning on it happening this fast. My question is, I have an emergency fund that's about six months, a little over six months. We both drive old cars that neither one of us have had to have any car payments on. We're completely debt free other than our house. And we've been throwing all of our extra money towards our house to get it paid off quickly. So I don't necessarily have a ton of extra money to just pay for cash out of for a car. So should I pull my money out of my Emergency fund to buy her a safe, you know, family friendly car? Or would you think that it'd be okay for me to finance the car, but. But pull all the money that I've been throwing at the mortgage, get the car paid off within the next year to avoid a ton of interest payments?

[A]

Isn't it fun how a baby on the way just makes you grow up, man? I'm telling you so. As if you would put your wife in an unsafe car where she's going to die. Your wife is not driving a car in which she is going to die. You would not have done to that to her before she was pregnant. You love her.

[B]

Well, well, to be fair, she's had this car for.

[A]

To be fair, if you thought she was going to die because this car is unsafe, you would not let her drive it.

[C]

Have you ever. Have you ever seen a newborn?

[B]

Yes. You know, pretty much as big as the palm of my hand.

[C]

Exactly. That baby will do great in this car for six months. For a year.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

What do you. What are you really worried about? Are you just trying to be like the best possible husband and father you can be and you're just looking for every possible way where you can make this thing world class?

[B]

I just want. She's. If you saw her car, she's in a 2009 Scion XD. It's a little box car with, with the door panels.

[C]

All right, you had me a box car. I may be with you on this one, dude.

[B]

So there's thing is, I mean I can afford to save up and pay for it a year from now. But again, she'll be giving birth and be severely pregnant within next four to six months. Seven months. She'll be giving birth?

[A]

Yeah. All right, honey, the baby can ride in that car that you have.

[C]

It's not a pretty car.

[A]

It will not hurt the baby. It did not hurt your wife. It's a safe enough car. Is it an ideal car? Absolutely not. It's a piece of crap. But babies have ridden in pieces of crap since time began. And your baby's not going to die from. And you're not a bad dad. And no, this is not an emergency. You just got pregnant and you're thrilled and scared and hyper responsible all of a sudden. And that's very cool. So what I want you to do is do you have any debt except your home? It sounds like you don't.

[B]

No, we don't have any debt.

[A]

Don't ever call me and ask me to get a car payment again. I'll kill you all right now, once we got that out of the way, because I love you. All right. I'll kill you. So that's it. So now. So the. The. So what we're going to do is we're going to just save and so the baby is due. Do you have a due date yet?

[B]

July next year. So, you know, we got some time.

[A]

So you got eight months?

[B]

Yeah, about seven.

[A]

Okay. How much money can you save by July?

[B]

About 15 to $20,000 if we really just buckled down and I worked a bunch of overtime.

[A]

Okay, well, so the car she's driving is worth. The car she's driving is worth what, two or $3,000?

[B]

Yeah, at the most.

[A]

Okay, so go ahead and pick out the car that she would like, that is $15,000 dollars and be the month before the baby comes. Go buy it and pay cash for it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And don't touch your emergency fund. Okay. Save the 15,000 between now and then. That's a very nice car, by the way, especially when we compare it to the piece of crap she's driving today.

[B]

Pretty much anything is a luxury.

[C]

A rickshaw would be nicer than what she.

[A]

She's got one of those new electric bikes. Yeah, but. Yeah, but, yeah, the man.

[C]

And by the way, you don't have to go from a 2009 to a tricked out 20, 25.

[B]

Yeah, no, absolutely not.

[A]

15,000 will buy a lot of car if you. If you watch what you're doing. It's great.

[B]

The reason why I called today and asked is I was planning on doing the saving for the next six months and then shelling all that money out for. For a car in cash. But I saw a car that is ess, essentially what we want. And it has a really good engine, transmission, reliable. It's a decent price, low mileage, one owner, and I said, man, I could get this car now and not have to worry about it in six months. I don't know if that car is going to be available in six months.

[A]

Oh, believe me, there's another.

[B]

There will be.

[C]

Can I. Can I paint you the other side of this? And I hate to even put this in the ether, but I'm doing this because I love you. Is that cool? All right. You buy this car on a car note, and then your baby is born, and there's some complications, and your baby's in NICU for two months or for one month.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And things get real complicated real fast. But this car note keeps showing up at your door. I would much rather you have $15,000 in cash about to pull the trigger on a car and you've gone into what we call stork mode around here. And you've got some margin to take care of everything until you're holding a nice, wonderful, healthy baby, which I. Which I'm confident is what's going to be. But what I don't want you to do is to get so excited right this second, six or seven months early that you jump the gun and then you chain yourself to something and take away all the freedom that you've worked so hard for up until this point.

[A]

Yeah. So listen here. All that happened is you got really excited and hyper responsible because you're going to be a daddy. And that means you're going to be a great daddy. And you're a good husband and you care about everything that's involved here and you want to make sure your family's taken care of and that's caused you to jump the gun. And all we're doing is saying, down boy. You're okay. Down boy.

[C]

Stay the course, man. You've done so good. So good.

[A]

You're going to be great. You're going to be a good dad. But just don't get pregnancy brain. Only, only one is allowed to have that and that's her. So you, you have to just chill. Let's ride this out. Everything's going to be okay. You could wait till she comes home with the baby before you buy the car.

[C]

Yeah, bring it. Bring the baby home in your car.

[A]

Yeah. And baby's not going anywhere for a little while anyway and then everything's fine. And then you go out and buy a car that she looks at on the Internet and you go buy it and everything's good.

[C]

And the meta lesson here is stop buying box car cars.

[A]

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[C]

Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.

[A]

Henry is with us in Atlanta. Hi Henry, how are you?

[B]

Hey, Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my call.

[A]

Sure. How can we help?

[B]

So I work as a personal assistant for a client and it's A great job and I love working for her. I've done it for the last two years. And over the last two years the scope has creeped a quite, quite a bit. I used to work like 9 to 2 and now it's more like 8 to 5. And my pay hasn't changed. And I just don't know how to have that conversation of. I feel like I'm on call 24 7. I got a call on Thanksgiving to book a flight and I just need my salary to reflect the value that I bring to my client's life. And I don't know how to do that.

[A]

What do you make?

[B]

4,500Amonth as a flat rate.

[A]

That's low. Yeah. For that.

[B]

It is low.

[A]

For a 40 hour. For a 40 hour week. I mean, yeah, for that position.

[B]

And that's not including the weekend calls. Like I get calls. I gotta call at 2am to come get the dog to go to the emergency vet. That was a few months ago. It's just I love my client and I love not having like a corporate job. But I need, I'm, I'm in baby step two. I paid off a ton of debt this year and I'm facing down the last 10k. And baby step three and four just seem further and further without side hustles. And that's not the point in those steps.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

Are you looking for more money to stay with this client? Are you looking to not have Weekend on call 2am Vet runs?

[B]

I would rather have more money and work more. I love to work and I love that I have this very privileged job, but it needs to be reflected in my pay.

[A]

Yeah, okay. All right. So the easiest way to remember to do this is just flip the screen script. As they say, let's walk a mile in the client's moccasins. If you were the client and you had someone that was taking good care of you and described, you know, and you probably are aware that you've increased their hours and that you've started to add some weekend stuff. You're probably aware of all that, but you hadn't thought much about it. How would you want to be approached? Well, I'm an employer. I have a thousand folks working for us. Okay. Close to 1100. All right. And so how do I want our leaders to be approached when someone wants to talk about their compensation? Well, number one, with gratitude, with honor. Definitely not belligerence and not entitlement. And I didn't hear any of those in your voice, by the way. I'm not Correcting you. I'm just helping you. So I think you have a very. I think your voice tone and the way you're approaching this does not have any tinge of spoiled brat or victim in it, which is really what I don't want to hear. Okay. So you're really already on a good foot, so I would just sit down and just up front, just say, hey, I'm really enjoying this. I love working with you. My hours have expanded, and you seem to be using me more on off hours, and I'm working to get out of debt, and I'd like to figure out what I can do for that to end up being reflected in my paycheck. Can we talk about that?

[B]

Can I add one wrinkle to that?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So in September, I went through a pretty bad health scare. I was diagnosed with diabetes, and I had to course correct everything very fast or I would probably not be here December 1st. And I had asked, I said, you know, can I get a small raise? And to me, it was $500, because that would cover all my supplies. And her reaction was, oh, I can't afford that. And then today, we were just kind of talking. She had a meeting with her financial folks, and they literally said, need to send more. So I just. I don't know, I feel like the person's a little bit tight. I don't want to rock the boat too much because, again, I don't want to go back to the corporate world.

[A]

Well, I think you could go do this for someone else and make twice as much. You're in Atlanta. You're in Atlanta. So jump on, jump online and see what, what personal assistance working for someone make in Atlanta, Georgia, I think you're going to find it's more than you're getting paid.

[B]

Okay, great.

[C]

And let me. Let me say this. If you have the kind of supervisor or you have a supervisor, sl, boss, CEO, you've got one person who's over everything in your life.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right.

[C]

If that's the kind of person that you can't sit down and have this type of conversation with, that's a person who lacks intelligence, integrity, and just basic kindness. And I don't know that I'd want to work. I trust my weekends in 2AMS with that person, regardless. Like, I've sat down with Dave and we've discussed things, or I've sat down with my leader and we've discussed things, and I haven't got what I wanted sometimes, and I trust them.

[A]

We got heard, I got hurt, and there was good Reasons given.

[C]

And I didn't get fired.

[A]

Not I can't afford it.

[C]

Right. You know, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

So, yeah, if they're, if they're illogical about this. So from an employer's standpoint, in general, a position is worth what you can hire the next one for. So if you're a personal assistant at Ramsey and you're making 4,500 and the next one's going to cost us 6,000, then that's the marketplace for that position, and that's what that becomes worth. That's very impersonal, but that's one way to look at a comp model. Then beyond that, that position is worth how long you've been there? My personal assist, Patty, has been with me 23 years. She can finish my sentences. So her worth is worth is much greater than what the next person in to replace her. And she's retiring and I'm gonna have to do that, which is driving me crazy. But, yeah, I'm available. Yeah, there you go. But you see what I'm saying? But the point being, I mean, she works here in the building and has for all this time, but her longevity here, here, and her knowledge base inside this organization makes her more valuable than someone in the marketplace, not less valuable. And so whatever it takes to hire the CEO of an organization like this, a personal assistant, an executive assistant, then Patty's worth more than that, 23 years worth. Okay. And gets paid more than that, by the way, which is good. She should. I'm happy to do that. So in your case, you know, you're providing extra beyond the normal 40 hour work week because this is a very residential kind of an arrangement. And that's cool. I like that. I think it's a cool service you're providing. And I think your client may be a bit unsophisticated in their analysis of what this costs. So you might have to even provide. Go, hey, look, I'm not trying to leave or anything, but I looked it up and here's what some other people are making in doing this. And it kind of made me think, what do I need to do better to be able to be worth that to you? Because this is what, you know, if you hire somebody else, this is what you'd have to pay. And just help your client's level of knowledge base, but not in a belligerent way, not in a threatening way, and be very, very careful, but approach it like you would want to be approached where the shoe is reversed. Treat other people like you don't want to be treated. Jesus called that the goal golden rule.

[C]

And let me, let me throw this out there, Henry, prepare yourself for her to look at you and say no. And then you're going to have most people, I don't say most people. Many people will head online and talk bad about their boss and they don't do this, they don't do that. I would call you to a higher form of character, which is to say, all right, cool, I have a grown up decision to make. Do I want to stay in this, this job at this pay because my boss has been clear, or do I want to look for another person like this CEO and because I like this work or I don't want to go back to corporate America. But right now I have some financial needs and so for the next two to three to five years, I'm going to go do that. But it's you looking in the mirror and saying, okay, here's what I can control. And I'm not going to be a complainer, I'm not going to be a whiner. I'm going to say, okay, I shot my shot and she said no. And then I've got to make some grownup decisions. Decisions now.

[A]

Yeah, that's exactly right. That's good input. And so that's very good, Henry. And my hope is that you can provide some facts in the type of voice, tone that you used with us. And those facts also would give you some confidence to have the conversation and make it very serious conversation. Not a threat, but this is what's on, going, going on. And so, you know, if one of our developers comes in and goes, a developer, that's a, you know, a dev, dev3, you know, they make 220,000 in the market right now you guys are paying me $180,000. We go, oh my gosh, let's look at that. We must have messed up something.

[C]

Let me, let me ask you this, Dave. Over the years, when an employee has come to you and said, I have this thing in my life and I need more money versus hey, here's what the market is.

[A]

I don't. Their need for money is only, that's a ministry.

[C]

We do that.

[A]

That's just generosity. But I'm not changing your comp.

[C]

There you go. That's, that's what I was getting at. But when someone comes and says, hey, my hours have increased, my responsibilities have increased, this is the market now, we're having a business conversation and that's a reasonable conversation.

[A]

That's a job. Yeah, but beyond that, it's me taking care of somebody that I love.

[C]

There you go.

[A]

That's generosity. But that's not a comp. Discuss.

[C]

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[A]

Our scripture of the day, Job 17:9. The righteous will hold to their ways and those with clean hands will grow stronger. James Clear says, you don't have to be the victim of your environment. You can also be the architect of your environment. There it is. I like that. Alyssa's in Chicago. Hi Alyssa. Are you. How, how are you?

[B]

I'm good. How are you, Dave?

[A]

Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

[B]

So I had a question regarding rent. I was wondering if you recommend to stay living at home, which is my current situation at my parents house paying $1,000 towards my parents rent or moving out.

[C]

I'm taking it. Since you're calling it's not a good living environment.

[B]

You know, I am the oldest of four kids so I'm 30 years old and the youngest is 19 and so we get in a bit of tiffs here and there.

[C]

Okay, why are you back living at home?

[A]

Why are you living at home at 30 years old?

[B]

So I did move out a couple years ago in the city with my ex boyfriend and things didn't work out so I've decided to move back home and hammer down paying off a debt. I paid off 10k in student loan debt so it cleared that out.

[A]

What do you make?

[B]

Saved up 70k?

[A]

70,000 and you're 30 years old. Okay. And what do you do for a living?

[B]

I am a digital content specialist but I'm looking to pivot into UI and UX design.

[A]

You're looking to pivot into what?

[B]

UI and UX design. User experience design. It's like web development and like app design.

[A]

Okay. And that would pay more?

[B]

Yeah, significantly.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So if you're home cleaning up like I'm 30, I've got some. I made some choices that I. That dug me a hole. I got to clear myself out.

[A]

How long you been back then?

[C]

That's one thing. But.

[B]

I want to say like two or three years and I was able to save up an emergency fund of I think like three to six months. I forget exactly, but like a 12k emergency fund. And then I also saved up 15k for a car that I would eventually buy. And then I'm saving up for like furniture.

[A]

Okay. At 30 years old, if you're not sick and you haven't been abused, there's no reason for you to be at home. You need to be like a grown up woman and stuff and go have a life. You're freaking. 30 years old. You make $70,000 a year. What the heck are you doing in your mother's basement? Yes. Move out. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Buy your own milk girl. Buy your own electricity. Yeah. You do not need to be living under mommy's roof at 30 freaking years old. You've stunted your development. Yeah. Stand up, square your shoulders. Go be somebody. It's time. It's past time. Like three years past time. You know, if someone goes through a. Let's say that she went through an abusive thing with a boyfriend and she comes back home to heal a little bit. Six months or something like that. So we want to provide a safety net for our grown kids, but not a hammock. This is ridiculous.

[C]

A good line.

[A]

You need to get out of here. Yeah.

[C]

Well, and you said it best. There's a. There's a safe place to be.

[A]

Be.

[C]

Let me say this like, it's like going to the hospital when you're sick, but you got to leave the hospital or you're never going to get stronger again. And you got to go back out and let your immune system do its work. You got to let your bones do its work, let your muscles do its work. You got to get back out there. And it's uncomfortable, but you got to get back out there. So yeah, it's. Unless there's something you're not telling us, which I have in my guts that you are. But yeah, it's time for you to go get your own place and get back out there and join a bowling league or go join a book club. Join. Go do something. But get back around. Other adults here age and don't hang around.

[A]

Neither of which go bowling. But yeah.

[C]

No, dude, they're coming back. Bowling leagues are coming back.

[A]

Is it really? It's zooming back.

[C]

It's ironic. It's like James in his tight shorts and Fender guitars. Like, these guys are bowling again. It's coming back, man.

[A]

Cool. The cool kids Are bowling.

[C]

I don't. I wouldn't call. Yes.

[A]

You just made all that up.

[C]

No, I'm serious. I'm serious. I read about it. You could. They're. They're coming back. Because here's the thing, kids, lives are awful on screens, and they're like, we got to start doing something.

[A]

And bowling was the answer.

[C]

One of many answers.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

I like the. A good bowl.

[A]

You do?

[C]

I'm terrible at it.

[A]

I'm the worst. I would say I'm worse at bowling.

[C]

Than I am at golf. And you know how bad I am at that.

[A]

Yeah, you're Happy Gilmore, for sure.

[C]

I'm not good at that.

[A]

Yeah. Teeing it up in the fairway. Yes, he did. He did do that, boys and girls. I watched it happen. All right, so, yeah, honey, you need to move out. That's no question. Okay, next is Tristan in San Francisco. Hey, Tristan. Kristen, what's up?

[B]

Hey, Dave. Hey, John. How are you guys doing?

[A]

Better than we deserve. How can we help?

[B]

So I'm going to be proposing to my girlfriend, and we agree on most financial things. I've been talking about not using credit cards or building a credit score like Dave teaches. But I struggle to explain how people get approved for things like apartments without a credit score when landlords check it. And so my question really is, how do people practically live without a credit score? And how can I explain that to her?

[A]

They do all the time. There's a few landlords that check it, but we did. We've had George got on his YouTube show and called a whole bunch of apartments, and every one of them took him in the. He just said, hey, I'm moving to town. I don't have a credit score. I just got out of school. You rent to me. And they went, yeah, you know, you have a month, two months deposit, whatever, and yeah, we'll rent to you. Just proof. You need proof of employment. But I think. I think two out of like 20, like 10% of them said they wanted a credit score or they wouldn't rent. The rest of them said, sure. That's mythology that everybody spreads. It's absolute freaking lie. When you actually do. When you actually start calling apartments, they rent to you.

[B]

Yeah, the same thing with housing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Some mortgage companies don't know how to do a no credit score loan. But again, George. And you know, George and his wife got Whitney, they got married, met here, got married here, and while they're both working here, and they went and bought a home with no credit score from Churchill Mortgage. And somebody else did me.

[C]

You did the same thing.

[A]

No credit score.

[C]

They do manual underwriting.

[A]

It's called manual underwriting. Yeah, you do it with a no credit score all the time. You just gotta. But not all mortgage companies know how to do it, so you can't just walk into any old mortgage company because a lot of them are dumb. They just look at the numbers. A monkey and look at the number. Yeah, number's big enough. Number's not big enough. That's the credit score lending. There's no brain involved. They just, they just could have been in 100% on the algorithm, but it's mythology because it's not a measure of financial health.

[C]

Yeah. If I gave you $10 million, your credit score wouldn't change. So it has nothing to do with your wealth. It's not a wealth score. It's like a dating app for how well you've dated debt and the past.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah, I tried to explain that to her one time, but I didn't really have the words to tell her. She's really good at paying off her credit cards and, oh, she uses them.

[A]

But let me tell you what, I am too, because I don't have any. Yeah, I'm really good at it too.

[B]

I'm. I'm. I'm not good at it. So I've been.

[C]

Hey, how old are you, Tristan?

[B]

Rid of them now. I'm 24.

[C]

All right. I learned this lesson in an embarrassing way in front of a college president at the age of 20, 28. Okay, so you got a four year head start on me. You ready for this advice?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Never enter into a persuasive argument without knowing your facts and figures. So if you think I should, you shouldn't have a credit score. And she says, why? And you go, I heard on radio. Because there's this podcaster, he's awesome. And then you're going to lose that. So do your homework on that. And that'll be work in your marriage and at your workplace.

[A]

Yeah. And just, you know, you can jump online. There's plenty of our clips and things you can get, explains how the whole algorithm works and everything on the credit score. It's a complete charade. 100% of the math in the algorithm to build your credit score has to do with how you interface with debt. It is not your income. It is not your net worth. It is not anything to do with health or wealth. When it comes to anything, all it is is, did you borrow money? Did you pay it back? What kind did you borrow? How much did you borrow? It's an I love debt score. And if you don't love debt, you get a real low one. I've had a 0 credit score for decades. It's not determinable. That's what they call it N.D. that's what I am. I'm an N.D. i like it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to of financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.