You Can’t Win with Money if You Keep Borrowing It

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show
Episode: You Can’t Win with Money if You Keep Borrowing It
Release Date: May 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, hosted by Dave Ramsey and his team, listeners delve into the pervasive issue of borrowing and its detrimental effects on personal finances. The hosts engage with callers who share their unique financial struggles, offering tailored advice to guide them toward financial stability and wealth-building. The central theme underscores the importance of breaking the cycle of debt to achieve financial freedom.

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Caller Stories and Advice

1. Amanda’s Unauthorized Mortgages (00:49 - 08:42)

Caller: Amanda from Calgary shares a distressing situation where her late father, through a power of attorney, secured approximately $520,000 in high-interest mortgages under her name. These mortgages are secured against properties whose valuations are significantly lower than the owed amounts, leaving Amanda "underwater."

Key Points:

• Power of Attorney Abuse: Amanda was unaware of her father's extensive borrowing until his passing.
• Financial Impact: The properties are valued at less than the mortgage amounts, making it impossible to sell without incurring losses.
• Legal Advice: Initially advised by a lawyer that her father’s actions were legal under the power of attorney, Amanda is now seeking steps to rectify the situation.

Advice from Hosts:

• Dispute the Debts: Dave Ramsey suggests notifying lenders in writing to dispute the validity of the debts, citing abuse of power of attorney.
• Legal Action: Encourages Amanda to work with an attorney to explore options such as foreclosure and deficiency waivers.

Notable Quote:

Jade Warshaw [02:00]: "Wow."

2. Mike’s Mounting Debt and Divorce (10:34 - 19:23)

Caller: Mike from Philadelphia is grappling with the sudden decision to divorce after accumulating a $1 million debt over four years, despite previously following Ramsey’s baby steps to become debt-free.

Key Points:

• Debt Accumulation: A mix of mortgage, credit card, car loans, and student loans have strained their finances.
• Divorce Implications: Splitting assets and debts amidst high monthly expenses creates financial uncertainty.
• Financial Management: They are committed to separating finances and creating a plan to manage and eliminate debt.

Advice from Hosts:

• Separate Finances: Jade Warshaw recommends immediately separating financial obligations to prevent further complications.
• Debt Snowball Method: Encourages focusing on paying off smallest debts first to build momentum in debt repayment.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [08:27]: "Oh, I hope you can work with your attorney to work this out."

3. Rachel’s HELOC Dilemma (21:30 - 30:52)

Caller: Rachel from Alaska inquires whether her situation with a $65,000 HELOC exempts her from the traditional baby steps sequence, as she and her husband are mortgage-free but struggling with high-interest debt.

Key Points:

• HELOC Understanding: Rachel views the HELOC as manageable but is unsure of its placement within Ramsey’s baby steps.
• Emergency Fund: They have a minimal emergency fund of $1,000 to cover unforeseen expenses.
• House Valuation vs. Debt: The HELOC exceeds half their annual income, prompting a review of its priority in debt repayment.

Advice from Hosts:

• Evaluate HELOC Position: Dave Ramsey advises categorizing the HELOC based on its proportion to their income, suggesting it fits into baby Step 2 if under half the income.
• Focus on Emergency Savings: Emphasizes building a robust emergency fund to prevent reliance on debt for unexpected expenses.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [27:05]: "So the way I would look at this is I've got to have that."

4. Life Insurance Concerns for Health-Impaired Mike (33:40 - 38:27)

Caller: A 24-year-old dental student named Mike from Lincoln, Nebraska, faces challenges in securing life insurance due to a heart transplant and subsequent heart disease diagnosis.

Key Points:

• Health Limitations: Mike’s medical history restricts his eligibility for traditional life insurance policies.
• Financial Planning: Seeking guidance on saving and investing to secure his family’s future without the safety net of life insurance.
• Debt-Free Status: Mike is graduating debt-free, enhancing his financial standing despite health setbacks.

Advice from Hosts:

• Self-Insurance Strategy: Jade Warshaw and Dave Ramsey recommend focusing on saving and investing aggressively to create a financial buffer, effectively acting as self-insurance.
• Investment Focus: Encourages Mike to invest at least 15% of his income to build a substantial nest egg for future security.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [34:12]: "Well, I'll give you this. You can put it in baby step six, but not for the reason you're wanting to."

5. Amy’s Emergency Fund Struggles (44:46 - 53:03)

Caller: Amy from Fort Worth, Texas, and her husband are struggling to build a $1,000 emergency fund despite a household income of $100,000 due to frequent medical emergencies and unexpected home repairs.

Key Points:

• High Medical Costs: Frequent emergency room visits and ongoing health issues consume their limited emergency savings.
• Home Repairs: A significant home emergency led to borrowing money, exacerbating their financial strain.
• Budget Shortfalls: Monthly expenses surpass their income, hindering their ability to save.

Advice from Hosts:

• Increase Income: Jade Warshaw suggests finding ways to boost their income, possibly through overtime or additional work.
• Expense Review: Dave Ramsey emphasizes identifying and eliminating other financial leaks to create a sustainable emergency fund.

Notable Quote:

Jade Warshaw [46:38]: "This is not your emergency fund."

6. Jenna’s Remarkable Debt-Free Journey (66:00 - 76:17)

Caller: Jenna from Sioux Falls, South Dakota, 21 years old, celebrates paying off a $30,000 mortgage in just seven months. Her motivation stems from witnessing her parents’ bankruptcy during her adolescence.

Key Points:

• Early Financial Responsibility: Jenna took on significant financial responsibility at a young age to avoid repeating her parents' mistakes.
• Income Management: Earned between $48,000 to $58,000 annually while diligently paying off her mortgage.
• Community Impact: Despite living in a small town, Jenna maintains a modest lifestyle, reinforcing her commitment to financial discipline.

Advice from Hosts:

• Inspiration and Discipline: Praise Jenna's dedication and encourage others by highlighting her achievements as a testament to disciplined financial management.
• Future Goals: Jenna plans to continue saving, upgrading her car, and making modest home improvements.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [67:19]: "Wait a minute. Jenna, you can't just speed past that."

7. Wesley’s Business Scaling Challenges (78:44 - 86:07)

Caller: Wesley from Edmonton seeks advice on aligning his and his wife's differing approaches to scaling their landscaping business. He favors traditional, in-person methods, while his wife advocates for a modern, online-centric strategy.

Key Points:

• Approach Differences: Wesley emphasizes door-knocking and personal interactions, whereas his wife wants to leverage online pre-booking and digital marketing.
• Resource Constraints: Limited cash to invest in business expansion, focusing on renting equipment rather than purchasing.
• Time Management: Wesley juggles a full-time job alongside his business efforts, leading to burnout risks.

Advice from Hosts:

• Define Roles and Vision: Dave Ramsey and Jade Warshaw recommend clearly defining each partner’s roles and establishing a unified business vision.
• Combine Strategies: Encourages blending both traditional and modern approaches to optimize business growth without overextending financially.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [84:16]: "It's a combination of both, especially starting out."

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Notable Quotes

1. Jade Warshaw [02:00]: "Wow."
2. Dave Ramsey [08:27]: "Oh, I hope you can work with your attorney to work this out."
3. Dave Ramsey [27:05]: "So the way I would look at this is I've got to have that."
4. Dave Ramsey [34:12]: "Well, I'll give you this. You can put it in baby step six, but not for the reason you're wanting to."
5. Jade Warshaw [46:38]: "This is not your emergency fund."
6. Dave Ramsey [67:19]: "Wait a minute. Jenna, you can't just speed past that."
7. Dave Ramsey [84:16]: "It's a combination of both, especially starting out."

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Conclusions and Insights

The episode underscores the critical importance of managing and eliminating debt to achieve financial freedom. Through diverse caller stories, the hosts illustrate how borrowing can derail even well-intentioned financial plans. Key takeaways include:

• Vigilance with Legal Financial Instruments: Amanda’s case highlights the necessity of understanding legal documents like power of attorney to prevent unauthorized financial actions.
• Impact of Divorce on Finances: Mike’s situation exemplifies how personal relationships and financial mismanagement can lead to overwhelming debt.
• Tailored Financial Planning: Rachel and Amy's callers demonstrate that financial advice must be personalized, considering unique circumstances such as health issues and existing debt structures.
• Inspiration and Discipline: Jenna’s story serves as a beacon of what disciplined financial behavior can achieve, motivating listeners to adopt similar strategies.
• Business Alignment: Wesley’s challenges highlight the need for clear communication and role definition in financial partnerships and business ventures.

Overall, the episode reinforces the philosophy that breaking the cycle of borrowing is essential for building sustainable wealth and achieving financial security.

Transcript

[Jade Warshaw]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

To you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Dave Ramsey]

From Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by my good friend and Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at 888-255-2225. That's to get on this show. I mean, I guess you could email in, but good luck. The pile is hot.

[Jade Warshaw]

Take a bribe.

[Dave Ramsey]

I. Jade is apparently taking bribes. You can Venmo Jade to get your question to the front of the line. We kid, but it's not a terrible idea. Amanda's gonna kick us off in Calgary. What's going on, Amanda? How can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi.

[Amanda]

Hi, guys. How you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing great.

[Mike]

Good.

[Amanda]

Yeah. I'm calling to see. My father passed away last July. And when I was backpacking about 15 years ago, we created a power of attorney to kind of protect me when I was traveling as I had one experience where all my stuff got stolen. What I didn't know was that over the last 15 years, he had taken out about $520,000 worth of high interest mortgages in your name. In my name.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

That feels like fraud to me.

[Amanda]

Yeah. So, yeah, I'm just kind of. At first it was one of those things where I just didn't know if I should go to. To the courts for that because I was defensive in protecting my father. But since now it's been almost a year and it's not really been cleaned up at all and I'm kind of not sure what to do financially.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, gosh. So have you. You have reported it or not yet?

[Caller]

I haven't.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. No, I think that's the first step. Right. Is you can see this thing on your credit report. So kind of saying this, this wasn't me, this was my dad. And yeah, the fact he's. He's no longer with us. What are those next steps?

[Amanda]

Yeah, Sorry. When I did speak to one lawyer at the beginning and he said because I had a power of attorney, that my dad was legally able to do this on my behalf, that's kind of all the legal advice I've been given.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Amanda]

Yeah, So I. And I did sign it, but in 2011, I believe. So, yeah. I'm kind of just not sure where to go now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the good news is this is secured debt. So there's properties attached to this that you could sell.

[Amanda]

They all have mortgages on them. Yes. But unfortunately all the evaluations are inflated, so the mortgages are actually worth more than the property.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're underwater on each of these properties?

[Amanda]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

How is that possible? How did the mortgage companies let this happen?

[Amanda]

Private lenders.

[Dave Ramsey]

So was this some, like, sketchy back end deals that he used this money for something nefarious? I'm confused.

[Amanda]

Yeah, I'm not really. I'm not really too sure. It looks like there might have been a big master plan, but unfortunately he. He passed before he could fix it. So I do believe there was a plan, but I'm not sure exactly what that was. But he had mortgages on properties to rebuild a home, to, I believe, sell his current home to clear all the debt, but he never made it there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Goodness gracious.

[Jade Warshaw]

What happened to the. Did he have any assets when he passed?

[Amanda]

He had his personal house. Unfortunately, that was. It did flood and then I wasn't able, because I have siblings, so legally I wasn't able to sell his personal house to pay off my personal debt, which wasn't my debt, but it was his debt, but legally it wasn't in his name.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. So these mortgage companies are coming to you saying, pay up or sell.

[Amanda]

Yeah, these are all private lenders that actually invested their rrsp. So it doesn't actually show up on my credit at the moment, but they basically took collateral.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you pulled your credit report to see if any other debts were taken out in your name or accounts?

[Caller]

I have.

[Amanda]

And nothing shows up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just these private lender mortgages, which I assume have terrible terms.

[Jade Warshaw]

Gotta be.

[Amanda]

Yeah. 30% interest.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, holy moly. Holy smokes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

How upside down. That's the real question. How upside down are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Hundreds of thousands. Give us an example of one of the properties. What is. What's it worth and what is it?

[Amanda]

For instance, one of them is valued at 75k and there's $180,000 mortgage.

[Jade Warshaw]

My word.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That feels illegal to even issue a mortgage at that point. Yeah, I would. I mean, if I was in your shoes. Obviously you need to work with an attorney. We're just two people on a show. But here's what I at least would do if I was in your shoes. I would let the mortgage lenders know in writing that number one, these loans were made without your consent, and it was based on an abuse of the power of attorney authority and that you want to dispute the validity of the debt. And then you can ask for. Give me copies of the loan application, the signature pages, the notarized power of attorney that was used I would make them give you everything they have.

[Amanda]

Yeah, I have all that. My signature was. It was signed on my behalf. And like I said before, they. They just use my power of attorney and said it was all legal.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you report. Have you reported this? Like, done a police report?

[Amanda]

I haven't done a police report yet, no.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, there was the power of attorney, and I'm. I'm not a lawyer here, so I'm just asking was the power of attorney that was granted in case you were unable to make financial decisions, right? Not in every case.

[Amanda]

My stuff got stolen while I was in New Zealand.

[Jade Warshaw]

Exactly.

[Amanda]

Kind of hard. Yeah, exactly. But I guess there was some clauses in there that maybe were put down that I didn't fully understand.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like what?

[Amanda]

Yeah, well, just making. There was actually the loan clause and other things like that. So I kind of.

[Jade Warshaw]

Here's the thing. And I hate this for you, and I don't know, I'm just going based off of what you're saying. Unfortunately, it does sound like there was language in this that puts you on the hook for it. And because of that, because it's a legal document, you might have trouble getting out of this, and I hate that for you. Let's pretend, for the sake of the last few minutes of this call, let's pretend you can't get out of it. Let's pretend lawfully you're on the hook for it. Tell us about your financial situation and let's see if we can walk you through a way out of this.

[Amanda]

Yeah. Okay. So I actually just finished. I just went through flight school, so I actually, personally, in the last two years, took out a $90,000 student loan, which I just finished my training all last week. That loan I took out just. I wasn't making. I make maybe 40k a year part time because I was in school. So. Yeah, I really.

[Jade Warshaw]

What will you make now that you've got your license?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Amanda]

Oh, I haven't. I just graduated last week, so I haven't actually got a job yet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. When do you see. When do you see that happening? And when that does happen, what will you be earning?

[Amanda]

Um, I would say hopefully in the next few months and maybe up to 60 to 100k depending.

[Jade Warshaw]

So we've got this. There's a possibility to make $100,000. So you've got the 90,000 of student loans. Have you totaled up all the debt? If you were to sell the properties, what would be the upside down amount for all these properties combined? From your dad?

[Amanda]

Yeah, I would probably still owe about 250 to 300.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. And your student loans is the only debt you have? No car loans, no credit cards, nothing like that?

[Amanda]

No, I have no credit card debt or it's all been paid off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And it's just you, no kids, significant other. Okay. Okay. So. Man, I hate this for you. I. I mean, I just hate it. But at the same time, if you end up on the hook for this, we want to make sure that you have a plan to get out of it, and it might. Do you own your own house?

[Amanda]

No, I actually just rent at the moment. Me and my husband were actually hoping to buy last year, but we got kind of stuck in this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And where's your mom?

[Amanda]

So I live about 5,000 km on the opposite side of the country and they're not together. My parents.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. Okay. So there's. It's not like you can call her up and say, hey, look.

[Amanda]

What.

[Jade Warshaw]

Look what? Look what your husband did. Okay. Oh, boy. Unfortunately, I hate to tell you, Amanda, you might have to walk the baby steps on this one. And it's a clear path. It's worked for me. If it makes you feel any better, I paid off $460,000 of debt. And it was terrible, but at least it was debt that I racked up. So for you, you're going to have a bitter taste in your mouth if you have to do this. But the good news is, you can do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I hope you can work with your attorney to work this out. Even if they foreclose on it and they waive your deficiency, that at least might get you out. With all of this damage and years of cleaning the mess up, that's a best case scenario. Worst case, it's going to be years of hard work. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. Wow.

[George Camel]

Hey, listen up. Everyone is at risk of identity theft. I don't care if you're a hermit living off the grid, listening to the show on a battery powered radio. All of your data collected by every company you've ever done business with lives online. Your bank, your doctor's office, retailers, the apps on your phone, the gas station where you have loyalty rewards. They all store your info online, making them ripe for a cyber attack or data breach. That's why I've been telling people for almost 25 years they need an ID theft protection plan. And the only one I've ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. They monitor your personal and financial info, even your home title, and take over the work if you become a victim. It's the most thorough and affordable plan out there. I even have it for my family and our entire team. Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the show. 888-825-5225 is the number to call. Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? We created a quick quiz so you can check your progress and get a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show Notes, click on the link titled are you on track with the baby steps?

[Caller]

And.

[Dave Ramsey]

And complete the quiz. Mike is up next in Philadelphia. What's going on, Mike?

[Blake]

Hey, guys. How are you today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing well. How can we help?

[Blake]

So, pretty much I just kind of got hit with a baseball bat the other day with my wife telling me we need to get a divorce.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my goodness. So sorry.

[Blake]

We are. It's okay. Still processing it, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you guys are?

[Blake]

10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got kids?

[Blake]

Two kids, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so sorry, but to say the.

[Blake]

Least, we are in a significant mountain of debt, and that includes our house and credit cards, cars loans, student loans, and we just don't see. I just don't see a light ahead of the tunnel. Just trying to figure out, you know, with her wanting a divorce, what is the best scenario? I mean, separate our finances, move forward, trying to pay off the debt and staying in the house until we can get some stuff taken care of.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I mean, right now, I probably, probably now is the time to. To start separating things. If you haven't already. I'm guessing one of you is moving. Moving or has moved out of the house? No, not yet.

[Blake]

No. Right, right. Right now we're still in the house. I mean, I talked to a few people and people said, like, don't leave the house because, I mean, that's, at this point in time, that's our greatest asset.

[Jade Warshaw]

We don't. Right.

[Blake]

There's so, so much that we put into this house right now, and that's a pretty significant portion of the debt outside of our mortgage loans.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, personal loans. How much?

[Blake]

So the HELOC is for 135. Personal loan is okay. Or, sorry, 49.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. What about the cars?

[Blake]

Cars were at about, I would say 1:20. Who's is whose?

[Jade Warshaw]

Like, how much is yours? How much is hers?

[Blake]

Mine's 70. Hers is about 40. So 110.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then how about the credit cards? How much of those? How much in total?

[Blake]

Individual or separate?

[Jade Warshaw]

Total for now.

[Blake]

Total or about. Or about 140.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And then finally, the student loans. Whose name are those in student loans?

[Blake]

So most are hers, some are mine. I think I have about. Right now about 18. And then she has close to seven 60 or 70.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Blake]

I didn't see the recent number yet.

[Jade Warshaw]

And the other debt is. Did you guys kind of share this is your. Are both of your names on all this stuff? Are both of your names on the morgue mortgage? That kind of thing?

[Blake]

Both my names are. Both our names are on the mortgage. I think her just. I mean, she. Her name's just on the car. My name's on the car. We do have individual credit cards.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Blake]

But then there is some that are jointly together.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then, you know, this is your first marriage.

[Blake]

It is, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So. And were you both working or were you a primary breadwinner? Like, tell me more about how that happened.

[Blake]

I mean, at this point in time, we're both working, so we total together we make probably close to 350.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Blake]

And that's probably the most frustrating part because it's like, you know, you hear that number?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You think you'd be doing better?

[Blake]

Better than what we are?

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely. I mean, I, I'm not. Again, I'm not an attorney here, but just based off of what you're saying and what I hear, likely it's just probably going to get split down the middle in many. In. In most ways that you've been together a long time. Sounds like you were both working, you were both contributing to the income, you were both contributing to the debt. So I would anticipate, and I would fight for that sort of a split, unless, you know, of a reason for it to be skewed in one direction or the other.

[Blake]

Our biggest problem is, you know, just. She told me that's about a week and a half ago. It's, you know, we own our. We're in our house right now that we have a mortgage on, but just want to keep the kids in the same school and rent mortgages, any house at this point in this area. The. We're going to be paying almost twice the amount.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you're saying for the person who moves out, that's going to be their burden.

[Blake]

Exactly. And it's going to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think either of you are going to be able to keep this house, though.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's George's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because they're going to have to refinance or one of you is going to have to buy each other out and, you know, cash out refi. Unless you have the money. And it sounds like you guys don't have any money?

[Blake]

No, I mean our accounts pretty much more times than not withdrawn. Like, you know, I just did our monthly budget and we're at like 20,000 and 20,000 out a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is there any assets anywhere? Do you have any savings non retirement anywhere?

[Blake]

Not non retirement now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. What is in your retirement? I'm just curious.

[Blake]

Probably about 40.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's left on the mortgage? Did I miss that?

[Blake]

460.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's the house worth?

[Blake]

About 800.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Blake]

So that's, that's the other problem too is that I think this probably contributed as a part of the divorce. But we are in the middle of a huge home renovation.

[Jade Warshaw]

Not anymore you're not.

[Blake]

Well, we can't even sell the house as it is. I mean, we have no kitchen right now. It's empty.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you've spent 30, let's see, you spent 35,000 plus you've spent almost 200,000 and you're still not done with this rental.

[Blake]

I, I, I'm speechless. Probably as much as you are because I don't understand how we spent so much damn money in this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is there any hope for this marriage? Is there a chance that this can be resurrected? You guys go through some intensive marriage counseling and, and try to make this work.

[Blake]

I suggested it, we tried. And she was pretty much like, this isn't working. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it was all of a sudden out of the blue or was this a long time coming? Because based on the debt numbers, I'm like, yeah, I could see how this could not be a fun time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, that's, that's just the money problems alone.

[Blake]

On top of all of this is four years ago we went through the Ramsey baby steps. We were debt free.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

You accumulated this million dollars of debt.

[Blake]

In four years, moved into this 1800 year old house. Yep.

[Jade Warshaw]

So can I can, I'm going to step into a territory here. I don't, I don't know that I should, but it's just what I sense. It almost sounds like there was already a lot going on in the marriage and this was kind of a way to start covering it up. Like, let's, let's do a project. Let's move into this house. Let's do this, let's do that. And we find bus. Yeah, we find a lot of times that when, when hard things are happening, people spend money to cover it up and to cope. And it kind of feels like that's what was going on here because this didn't crop up. Out of the blue. You know, this sounds like it was a long way coming.

[Blake]

Definitely been some things happening, but it was never to the point where I thought that we would be going down this road.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm sorry. This is happening. So on the income side of the 350, who makes what?

[Blake]

I make about 200.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Blake]

I'm a nurse. You know, there's always a lot of overtime available. And that's, I mean, at this point in time, I'm making that amount because I'm working 60, 70 hours a week.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So. So let's, let's kind of pretend, let's go through and kind of total this up and go havesies on it. You said your student loans are the 18 or the 70?

[Blake]

18.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So let's just pretend for a moment that this does get split in half. And let's pretend for. I mean, let's imagine worst case scenario, George. Let's pretend she gets the house and she's allotted a certain amount of time before she has to buy you out, because a lot of times they'll do that. And let's pretend she's given several years before she has to buy you out. All right, so that kind of means, hey, you're out here on the street, you've got to get. You're the one who's going to be renting and you're also on the hook for half of this, this debt here. Let's talk about what that looks like for you. Is that fair?

[Blake]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you've got a great job, you've got overtime at your disposal. So if you're to move out, what we would tell you to do is try to find a place that's no more than 25% of your take home. That's thing number one. So that you've actually got your margin to work through, whatever debt snowball you're going to have to work through, because chances are you're going to be on the hat, on the hook for half of this. Right?

[Blake]

Right. Yeah, I would think so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you're looking at, I don't know, easily $225,000 you're going to have to pay off. And that means that you're going to have to live on less than you make, which is what we tell everybody. It means you're going to have to increase your income as much as you can. Great way that you can do that. And you're just listing these debts, smallest to largest, to pay them off when that time comes. I'm sorry Hang on the line.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're going to send you a link to our divorce checklist on how to prepare for divorce. So sorry going through this Mike.

[Jade Warshaw]

When.

[Caller]

You go through a job loss or job change and lose your employer sponsored health insurance, there's no better time to try Christian Healthcare Ministries. That's right. There's another option besides COBRA to take care of your family during that time. Because if you didn't know the cost of COBRA has gone up a lot in the past few years. And CHM is an affordable, affordable, biblically based alternative to health insurance. So do your own research. CHM is a great option that's potentially a third of the price of cobra. It's a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And the support you get from CHM goes beyond helping you pay for medical bills. Members become part of a family that makes prays for them when they have a medical event. Try getting that with cobra. So if you're going through a job loss, life change, or just want to explore other options to save on healthcare, CHM might be perfect for you. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month, so find out [e-mail] budget that's chministries.org budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our question of the day is brought to you by WireFi. If you've got defaulted private student loans and no one else will work with you, try yrefi. They'll help you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and a payment plan based on your ability to pay. Go to yrefi.comramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yep. Today's question comes from Rachel in Alaska. She says, how specific should a budget be? My husband and I have a budget category labeled household that anything we buy for the house raining from ranging from dish soap to bed frames, goes in that category. Should those be separated into different categories such as groceries and house furnishings? So I George, I have clear opinions on this and I'm not saying it's my way or the highway. It's just, just the way I think of it. But you know, when I teach budgeting, I say that budgets should be three things, detailed, realistic and flexible. In that first category, detailed is really what we're talking about here. And I, I'm a person who kind of likes to know exactly where every dollar is going and I like to be able to look back and go, how much did we really spend on groceries? How much did we really spend specifically on going to restaurants? How much did I really spend specifically on furnishings for the house? Right. And so with every dollar, it does behoove you to separate these categories out if you're interested in that sort of thing. Now, on the flip side of that, if that causes some sort of contention or it makes it more frustrating for.

[Dave Ramsey]

You, if you have 94 line items in the budget, it might get overwhelming. Yeah, that's especially for the spouse who's not the nerd.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I'm saying. So if it causes problems like pull back a little bit. But to specifically answer your question about this household category, I'll tell you what I do. I have the whole, the whole heading of it is, I think lifestyle, I think is what it says on mine. And then underneath it I have a groceries, which is at the grocery store. Then I have a date night, which is specific. And then I have restaurants, which is not a date, just restaurants in general. And then underneath that, I do have household items. That's what you said. Things like dish soap. And if I go to, you know, Home Goods or Target, something like that. And then George, I have one that just says ammo. Amazon. That's diabolical.

[Dave Ramsey]

I, yeah, I did that too, because I was frustrated trying to parse things out and go, what is that? Well, part of it was for the home, part of it was over here. So I just went, you know what, Amazon.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then I can look at that and lament over it later.

[Caller]

That's.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's truth. Now my bigger question is, sorry, Jade, my squirrel brain went, how many bed frames are these people buying? Where this is a major issue?

[Jade Warshaw]

6.

[Dave Ramsey]

Kids, do I make a line item just for bed frames? Okay. You buy a bed frame once every few decades, I feel like. So I would just create a sinking fund and go, you know, furniture or bed frame, if it's a one time purchase, just put it in there in that month's budget, you can delete it from the next month's budget. But as far as dish soap and all that, you can split it up into household essentials, maybe for like paper towels and dish soap and all that stuff. You could lump it into groceries if you're buying it all from the same store, if it makes it easier for you. But there's a line, we have to go, this isn't really fitting in this category. Let's split it out. And you'll notice those Patterns as you keep budgeting.

[Jade Warshaw]

Budgeting. And I would say specifically, if it's a category that you do feel like you guys are having a hard time sticking to. So, for instance, yeah, food is one that people struggle with. It's the number one budget buster. Or maybe it's something like, I don't know, like kids or entertainment. Something that's kind of an overarching target for a season. It could be a good idea to break it out so you can understand exactly where the problem is. If you break out right now, if you just have on your budget food, and that covers anything you eat, and you're like, man, why is this thing, like, messing with our budget? If you break it out, you'll realize, oh, specifically, it's doordash. And, oh, specifically, I noticed when I look at the transactions, every Wednesday we stop because that's the day that the kids have Taekwondo. Right. And then you start to see what your habits are. So not saying you have to do that forever, but it could be a way to identify where the trouble zones are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And every dollar does let you parse things out. So if you had a hundred dollar grocery bill, but half of it was for household essentials, half was food, you can actually split that up in every dollar. And so if you guys want to learn more about that, we have free budgeting trainings ongoing this month that our team hosts. You'll learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using EveryDollar. Plus, you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q and A. So spots are limited. Go sign up for [e-mail] webinar.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well done, George.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. Thank you. Shannon is in Durham, North Carolina. Up next, how can we help Shannon?

[Caller]

Hey, I hope you're both well. I'm calling because I want to know if we are the exception to the baby steps order. The reason I'm asking is because we do not have a mortgage, we were super blessed to be gifted a home when a grandmother passed away.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Caller]

So zero mortgage, zero car loans. We're driving beat up cars. We're living as college students. No lifestyle creepy. But we have a $65,000 HELOC. And I've always just kind of viewed that as, you know, $450. We're only paying interest now, but a $450 home payment, you know, instead of a mortgage. I'm kind of wondering if I can bump that more like step six.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because what other debt do you have?

[Caller]

Yeah, a $1,000 emergency fund for A very old special home is just killing us, you know, $3,000. Well, last year, water heater, braces, breaks. I feel like all these things are things that we should be paying for and it just was painful.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

90.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, I'll give you this. You can put it in baby step six, but not for the reason you're wanting to. Generally what we would say is if the HELOC is over half your annual income, it can be tackled during baby step six. If it's less than half your income, put it in baby Step 2 where it fits in the debt snowball. So that's the simplest answer, but what was the HELOC for it?

[Caller]

When we first moved into the home, we, we were actually on a renovation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Show and wow, did they pay for the renovations?

[Caller]

We match. We had to match it. So we actually took out 50 to match. And then we were surprised by our taxes the next year because it was considered a gift. So then we had to add on more to the HELOC to cover the taxes. So now the total 65.

[Dave Ramsey]

When are you going to be done? When are you like, hey, I don't want to take on another penny in debt.

[Caller]

So we'd like to spend the next two years saving up six months of emergency fund just because our home is older. And that'll take about two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then I'm starting to think this home wasn't as much of a blessing as you let out on to be.

[Caller]

It is. It is. How many 40 year olds have no mortgage? It was wonderful. It's just 125 years old. It's really special.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a full time job to keep up with this house and renovate it.

[Caller]

Yeah. But I feel like if we had.

[Dave Ramsey]

A new home and if you didn't have a mortgage, why'd you go into all this debt? Why weren't you guys able to cash flow all of these things?

[Caller]

That was 10 years ago. And just we're making different priority decisions.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it sounds like you're prioritizing the emergency fund over your debt payoff right now. Right. How much debt do you have left outside of the heloc?

[Caller]

None.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so the braces, the breaks, you cash flowed, all of that.

[Caller]

Yeah, we had to borrow last year from a family member, which also didn't feel good. But it was a lower interest rate, of course. Borrowing, credit card.

[Jade Warshaw]

I have a big question. I mean, maybe I'm dumb to answer this.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm looking at you. I'M like, this lady's got it paid off. You know, she's been gifted a house. They don't have any other debt. Why are you taking on debt? You have such a beautiful situation and here you are taking out helocs and borrowing from family members when you don't need to with a fine income.

[Caller]

Because the thought, yeah, the thousand dollars that we had in our emergency fund didn't cover those.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right, right, right, yes. But let me put this bug in your ear because I think this will help you going forward. So, a, you're right. $1,000 isn't enough to cover anything under the sun. It's not supposed to be. But it is supposed to cause you to think critically about really what is an emergency and get a little bit more creative about how you solve that. And a lot of times that create creativity, in your case especially is kind of dipping into your cash flow in order to making it to make it happen. Because like I said, your income is fine. And a lot of these things, they did not come out of the blue like something like braces. You kind of know, like you're looking at, you know, junior's teeth and thinking, okay, this can't be good, right? So you kind of know. And there is, there's a time frame on things that sometimes they make, they make you feel like something's more urgent than it is. So I just want you to think about that before you borrow money again. Is this something that's completely necessary? Is it really something that I have to do right now? Like, is it urgent and is it truly unexpected? Or did I know this was coming and I've just kind of been in denial thinking, oh, I'll just use debt when the time comes. So really filter it through that. I think it'll cause you to make better decisions going forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd get this HELOC out of your life and don't put a penny more on it. And no more excuses. You make 90 grand, your quote unquote mortgage is 450. You can cash flow everything in your life. You got this. This is the Rams.

[George Camel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

I don't always eat right. I know I need to eat more fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just have to pound some chips because they taste so good. That's why I love my Field of Greens. It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time. And each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens was doctor selected for a specific health benefit. Heart, lungs, kidney, metabolism, even healthy weight. And folks, I ain't getting any younger. It's super easy to mix with water. And here is the great part of it. I thought it might taste like grass, but it tastes great. And only Field of Greens makes this promise. Your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. So go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey to save 20% on your first order. Blake is up next in Lincoln, Nebraska. What's going on, Blake?

[Mike]

Hey, thank you for taking my call. So I'm 24, 24 years old. I'm a dental student here in Lincoln. So when I was eight days old, I had a heart transplant and I'm married. I'm going to graduate in two years. But my question is to account for not being able to get life insurance just because I've tried multiple different times. And because of that heart transplant, I can't get life insurance. So what percentage of my income would you guys like recommend me setting aside just to be more prudent about the future and saving money for my family just in case something happens.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are you today?

[Mike]

I'm 24.

[Jade Warshaw]

24. And are you healthy today?

[Mike]

Yeah, I was diagnosed with just basically a little bit of heart disease last year, but it's not like a death sentence, but it will probably limit my life. So on the other hand, I just, I just want to be prepared for the future just in case that does limit my life.

[Caller]

But.

[Mike]

But so far, I'm pretty healthy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you married?

[Mike]

Yep.

[Jade Warshaw]

And kids?

[Mike]

Nope, not yet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, what's your income?

[Mike]

So I'm a dental student, so I don't make any money. My wife is a Spanish teacher here in Lincoln. She makes around $36,000 a year after tax.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay, so I'm thinking about what you're thinking about. Do you have any debt or are you guys, or do you have a clean slate? Tell me more about that.

[Mike]

We have no debt. I'm going to graduate dental school debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Mike]

I have folks that are paying for my dental school. So I'm very grateful and fortunate to be in that situation at least.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I actually think that is one of the best things you could have done to set your family up for success is to avoid debt. Because now, and George, you can come in and stop me. But now you've got your full income at your disposal at a very young age. And so in that way I think that you've set yourself up because I mean, if once you get three to six months saved, you're, you're investing 15% and you're going to do that for a while and then depending on what you think your income will be, you know, if you can. If I were in your shoes, I'd want to project out. Okay, how quickly could I get to 10 to 12 times my income if I start investing? Like, how long would that take by me doing 15%? And then I'd want to know how that jives with what my health is. And then if I feel like, okay, now I need something in addition to that, then yeah, I might be searching out other options, but they're going to be expensive. And I almost would rather put that money into additional investing than in one of these policies. That's like a no exam policy, guaranteed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Issue life policy, which will only give you probably 25 or 50k max.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I'd rather put that in my own investment than, yeah, do some sort of simplified life or some sort of mortgage life insurance. I just don't see how it would. It's going to return for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Mike]

I was just wondering too if I should be like more aggressive with like my savings and I didn't know what type of an account to like invest in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you will make sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

You. Yeah, and you will be naturally. Because. And I didn't do a good job explaining this. So because you're not in debt, you're. You are in many ways you've excelled through the baby steps faster. Right. So you're going to be doing baby step four at some point. You guys are going to buy a house, but because you don't have a 10, any debt, you'll be through that house lickety split. So that's thing one. And then once you get to baby step seven, you can invest whatever amount you want above the 15%. And so you're going to be doing that in your 30s when so many of us are doing that in our 50s because you're so ahead of the game. Does that make sense?

[Mike]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you've got, you've got time to build this, George, that, that'd be my take on it. What do you think?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, the goal is for you to become self insured. And so that's just more important for you now because you can't even get, get life insurance. So the faster you get through the baby steps, the better. The faster you get a paid for home, the better. The faster you build up that nest egg, the better. So that if something were to happen to you, your future wife would be okay, your kids would be okay. And so I would not be investing more than the 15%. I would keep following the baby steps, but I would have a little more intensity through them than the average person because of your situation. To get to baby step 7 faster so that you can then stack up, max out retirement, use a taxable brokerage account and stack up even more money in there and that kind of becomes your own life insurance plan in a sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so, yeah, so for even more clarity, I'll say this. You know, when we talk about baby step six, paying off the house, a lot of times that's taken people, you know, 10, 12 years, that sort of thing. In your case. Yeah, I would treat it like a baby step too. And I would kind of just, you know, clip my way through it. And that way, to George's point, you'll be set up to, to invest way more, way faster.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Mike]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm hoping the best for you, man. I hope this is something you'll never actually need to use as you build it and wishing you the best for your health and your future. But I love that you're thinking about this stuff of how to make sure that your family's protected. A lot of people don't think about it until it's too late. And so if y' all, if you're healthy and you can get life insurance, especially if you're young, get it today. Our friends at Zander can help you out. That's the company I have my term life policy through. And here's the what? You aim for 10 to 12 times your annual income and if you have a spouse 10 to 12 times their annual income and if they're a stay at home spouse they definitely need a policy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah like four to six times like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really aim for at least a half a million dollar policy and it's very affordable especially if you're young and even if you're older it's still going to be a great buy comparatively to whole life insurance which is a total ripoff. So stick to a level term policy. 10 to 12 times your annual income. 15 to 20 year term is the right choice for most people. So head to Xander.com and get that taken care of. It doesn't take long to apply and knock it out.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what you said is really good to, to reinforce the point is to get to the point of self insured because a lot of people, they get weirded out by the fact that a term policy like what happens after 20 years, Jade.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, then what?

[Jade Warshaw]

You're wealthy.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wasted all that money on a policy. You don't say that. When you pay your homeowner's insurance and your house doesn't burn down, you thank God that you didn't have to use it. So the point is not that you want to use it, the point is that it's there to protect you in case something happens. So you're transferring the risk to the insurance company because you can't handle that. Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, here's a big question. So I know how I feel about this. So we've said the point is to self insure. At some point you could let that policy go. I don't think I'll ever let mine go. I think I just keep renewing. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No matter the cost.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean it's a lot of money. I think I just like it on there like as a channel jwi.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jade wants it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Jade wants it. What about you? What does Whitney say?

[Dave Ramsey]

I might well be self insured then. So that's my personal goal is that.

[Jade Warshaw]

The nest will be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whitney I think will be. She'll be fine. Cuz she. Because she feels like maybe there's less of a chance of me dying if I don't have term life. I don't know.

[Jade Warshaw]

So it's like a.

[Dave Ramsey]

She doesn't like to think about it whatsoever. That's so. But I don't want too much, you know what I mean? Then you're sleeping with one eye open. You're like dang, he's worth more dead than alive. I don't like that I don't like that feeling. Feeling.

[Jade Warshaw]

So that's interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's one of the things that comes out of my bank account. I pay it yearly to get the discount because it's me, obviously.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know, I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

And when it comes out, I don't go, oh, man, the payment came out. I go, thank goodness. Yes, I'm covered for another year. My family's gonna be okay. It's just another way you tell your family you love them.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the nerdiest way possible.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. And you do it today. And it's not expensive, especially if you're healthy. That's why George said the younger you are, get it. And yes, you will be your future self will. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it really. I mean, it's a few hundred bucks a year. Yeah. Comparatively to whole life, which we've taken these calls and they go, well, Jade, I've been paying $600 a month into this whole life policy my cousin sold me, and it's got a cash value portion that builds. And I'm going, never mix your insurance with investing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Never, ever, ever.

[Dave Ramsey]

If they're trying to sell you on how that it can do both, it does both poorly is what happens.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So term life for insurance. Invest on your own through your retirement accounts, and you'll be far, far are better off. And Xander's the folks we trust to handle that.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's not hard to get it like we were on it. So let's just keep talking about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

They have the no medical exam policies now, I believe under a million for a lot of policies or a million or under.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

No medical exam needed.

[Jade Warshaw]

And if you do do a medical exam, it's easy. They come to your house, they take a. You take your blood. I lay on my couch, I'm coming.

[Dave Ramsey]

I did mine at work. It was great. Oh, wow. Yeah. They'll come to the office.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's nice. But let's. I. I want to dive for a minute. You're on the clock. You're like, I get my insurance on the clock.

[Dave Ramsey]

I figured you can't get mad at that. Like, sorry, Dave, get my term. See, what can you do?

[Jade Warshaw]

But here's another. You know, I say all the time. You know, we walk the baby steps. And a lot of people sacrifice. And I say all the time, like, being on the baby steps is not an excuse to eat crap. Right. And here's where it plays out. Because when it's time to do that medical or it's time to get that insurance, you want to make sure that you haven't been, you know, stopping through the drive through and doing the ramen noodles because you want to. You want to get the cheapest policy possible. You want to be as healthy as possible. So all this stuff is intertwined. It all links together.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think I flexed my abs a little bit when they were taking blood just to see if that helped it. You know, I take my blood work.

[Jade Warshaw]

When they take, you know, your blood pressure, I'm like, I am calm, I'm cool, I'm collected.

[Dave Ramsey]

I needed that a. All right. That a rate.

[Jade Warshaw]

I need to save a couple of dollars here.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm willing to get in shape if it means a discount, you know what I mean?

[Jade Warshaw]

100% within a couple miles. Happ.

[George Camel]

Okay, guys, I got big news. Aldi is now the official grocery sponsor of the Ramsay show. Yeah. Ramsay is teaming up with Aldi, the grocery store that cares as much about saving money as I do. Get this. Aldi branded products save you up to 63% over similar name brand products at other stores. It's great quality and big savings on everything you need with no gimmick. No membership fees or coupons required. See for yourself how Aldi is saving Americans across the country $8.3 billion a year. So stop paying more and start shopping at Aldi where they have the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you today at Aldi us. That's a L D. I usually foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

From Ramsey network. This is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell joined by best selling author Jade Warshaw. This hour. The number to call is 888-825. 5 225. Call us up and we'll do our best to help you out with your life and your money. Amy's going to kick us off in Fort Worth, Texas. Amy, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's going on in your world?

[Caller]

So my husband and I have been stuck in saving up $1,000 emergency fund for like three years. Like, we save up the funds and have just start over.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a dollar a day. If you could have just kept that away.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much do you make?

[Caller]

So we make between the two of us right now, we make about $100,000 a year. But we also have an average of eight. Eight trips to the emergency room a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, boy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that makes more sense. Is it you or the kids?

[Dave Ramsey]

Is this chronic health issues?

[Caller]

So I have Chronic health issues. My husband has chronic health issues. We have. Our oldest son has a diagn and our youngest son has developmental delays.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you all should just like, live at the hospital at this point. Just rent a room.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

Parking spot.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're, you're, you should get a sign made just for you guys. I think that's nice of them. Reserved spot for Amy.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you're hitting your out of pocket max every year. Is that for the last three years? Is that basically what's happening?

[Caller]

Yes. So this year for my, my, for my baby, we hit the out of pocket on January 15th.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much is that?

[Caller]

1300.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And what's the family out of pocket max for the entire family?

[Caller]

37.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So that's the magic number right there. So the way I would look at this is I've got to have that. You know, when you have chronic illness like this, you. You have to be prepared for it. And if you have access to a high yield savings account, that's a great place to keep that money. If you don't. Okay, I'm just keeping it in a high yield savings account for when I need it. This is not your emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is health expenses in the budget.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because the emergency room for you guys is no longer an emergency. It's just a budget line item that's going to happen a few times this month. So the best you can do to get ahead of it, prepare for it, create a sinking fund where you just go, all right, we're going to put 500 bucks a month away in this account. So that's that. We just constantly have at least 500 bucks a month to spend on this stuff. And do you guys have good health insurance? Is it through one of your employers?

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And my company pays 80% of the premium for us.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's amazing. So that tells me there's more going on here because you're hitting the out of pocket max. It's not just the medical stuff that stopped you guys. What else has been going on in your life? Has there been spending? Are we coping?

[Blake]

Accidents?

[Caller]

We've had home emergencies. We had a slab leak on our house that displaced us for six weeks last year. And the head insurance, the way the policy was written is they recover. They covered all of the, like, refurbishing, repairs from the water damage, but they wouldn't actually cover the, like, plumbing repair. Let's see, what else?

[Jade Warshaw]

What'd that cost you?

[Caller]

You. That was five grand that we ended up having to Borrow because we, our emergency fund was only $1,000, so we paid $1,000 and you know, but you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Guys are making, are you guys making six, seven grand a month? What's the take home pay here?

[Caller]

About 7,500.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you investing?

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

No. Okay, good. So go ahead, George.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just wondering. I just feel like there's some other money leaks happening here because 7,500amonth take home is a great income. So where else is that disappearing to other than emergencies? Do you guys have a big mortgage? Are there a lot of debt payments?

[Caller]

Our mortgage currently is one third of our income. It didn't start out that way, but then we had some property tax snafu that we didn't understand. We also have car payments. Say it one more time.

[Jade Warshaw]

I said, yeah, that is a piece of the problem.

[Caller]

Yeah. We also have two car payments. We're paying off some student loans and we got sucked into the solar.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, no.

[Caller]

But I kind of want to say scam. So that's where. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much do those three, the, the cars, the student loans and the solar cost you every month in payments?

[Caller]

2900.

[Jade Warshaw]

There you go, mama. Okay, I see, I see it. I see the clear picture here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Plus the. Is it a $2,500 mortgage?

[Caller]

$2,800 mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. Plus feeding people and keeping the lights on, plus the emergencies. It just disappears every month.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I have one in diapers and one in that's working on being potty trained, but because of the disability that's taking forever. And then, you know, we're, we've got formula cost and. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so are you staying at home with them? Are you still.

[Caller]

I work from home.

[Jade Warshaw]

Your work from home and work from.

[Caller]

Home and take care of. Well, so I take care of our one year old. Our three year old is in ABA therapy, which my insurance covers most of, but we are still paying about $75 a day for it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay. And what does your husband do for a living? What's his work?

[Caller]

So he has an H VAC estimator.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can he do overtime?

[Caller]

No, he's a salaried exempt. Overtime does nothing.

[Jade Warshaw]

So here I'm going to tell you this and I'm going to say it with a sigh because it's going to make you tired. The only way to get out of this cycle is to do something that is going to infuse your monthly income in a major way. Do you see what I'm saying? You need, you need that jolt of B12 into your income. So that you can kind of leap over a few of these hurdles quickly so that when they pop up, it's not this thing that's taking you one step forward, two steps back. So, so the thing that I think is your husband because you're at home with the babies even though, and you're working at home, if you can pick up extra hours, more power to you. But if he can, if he can say, hey, for a while on the weekends, I'm, I'm going hard in the paint. And you guys get together and say, what is that goal? What do we need extra? Is it, is it fifteen hundred dollars a month? Is it a thousand dollars a month? And you guys just lock, lock eyes and lock arms and say for 12 months we are kicking it into high gear and we are going to, to be ships passing in the night. But we've got to get, we got to get this 3,700 in the bank and we've got to make sure that we still have margin left to pay down some of these debts. Tell us about the cars because there might be something there that we can help you get that infusion.

[Caller]

Oh, well, the cars are kind of a messy situation right now because, so we had two car payments and then my husband got into a car accident and his car got totaled. But, but there were multiple cars involved and multiple insurance companies involved. And so they're working on basically trying to figure out who can, how they can get away without paying for anything. So we are actually effectively right now paying for three cars.

[Jade Warshaw]

Your insurance didn't cover it. It was his fault.

[Caller]

So it was not his fault. So we were hoping that maybe the other insurance companies would, you know, take responsibility, but they have not. So we just started the process of getting our insurance to cover the cost of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are the cars worth that you do have?

[Caller]

The ones we have are worth 20. Somewhere between 20 and 22 grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and what do you owe on them?

[Caller]

That, because we just got them because we had to replace the one that got totaled.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you didn't have to get a $22,000 car.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And you're gonna have some insurance money coming back from this and you need to use that to go towards the debt. Since you've already replaced a $20,000 car and if I were you, I'd try to get out of it and get something cheaper while you still can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hang on the line. I feel for you, Amy. We're going to send you every dollar premium to help you guys budget. Every single dollar coming in and hopefully we can get you through this plan.

[Caller]

Foreign.

There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership. Wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. Get started on the American dream of home ownership [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com hey folks.

[George Camel]

How would winning $5,000 in cash change your life? This month we're giving $5,000 to one grand prize winner and we're giving away a $500 prize every week in May. It takes less than 15 seconds to enter. No purchases necessary, and you can enter daily. To increase your chances of winning, enter the Ramsey Cash until May 31st at RamseySolutions.com giveaway. That's RamseySolutions.com giveaway.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're enjoying the show or if you ever have, please subscribe, leave a review, share it with a friend. You guys are the best marketing tool we have and we appreciate all of you spreading the word, telling your family, your friends, saying, hey, if you want to get better with your money, you want a better life, check out this show. It means the world. Thank you guys for doing that. Ashley is up next in Atlanta, Georgia. How can we help? Ashley?

[Caller]

Hey, me and my husband are arguing a little bit. We are looking at purchasing a second home/investment property at the beach. And we have a paid off. Our primary residence is paid off. We don't have intentions of moving. We have another investment property locally that is running and cash flowing. We both have good jobs, make good money. And my husband's viewpoint is we need 100% of the proceeds to buy the second home. And my view is we could just put 20% down. So we wanted a third opinion to weigh in on our discussion.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Usually the person calling in is right. But this might be a rare moment where I'm agreeing with husband.

[Caller]

100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because you're, well, you're saying Hey, I want to go into debt for a toy. Essentially, this beach house is for you guys as a vacation property.

[Caller]

Yeah. That would be rented as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But either way, until it takes off, the investment property you have that has a mortgage on it as well.

[Caller]

Well, no, no, no. We're 100% debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

So both properties are debt free.

[Caller]

No debt, Correct? Yeah, we have no debt at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the beach house going to cost?

[Caller]

Probably about a million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how much do you guys have saved right now that you could use toward this?

[Caller]

We have about a hundred.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your household income?

[Caller]

Our household income is about 350 to 375.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amazing. And how much of that could you save each year if you were like, hey, we're going to do this cash. Here's how much we can set aside.

[Caller]

Right now we're saving 8 to 7 or 8,000amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let's say 100 grand a year.

[Caller]

And we're maxing out our retirement account. So that is after. That's just cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

After taxes, after everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

So at this rate, it would take you nine years of just straight saving to get there. Now if you invested the money, let's say, hey, in five years, we're going to do this, we're going to invest the money into the market, let it grow for us. You could probably do it in six or seven.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how old are you two?

[Caller]

I'm 30. He's 32.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you guys are doing amazing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought you're like, well, we're nearing retirement. You work your butts off. And what I don't want you to do is take out an 800, $900,000 mortgage for a toy that may be cash flows, maybe is a headache. Maybe you get to use it, I don't know. But it's still a toy. At the end of the day, it's a luxury entertainment piece. And if you called in Dave Ramsey was sitting in the seat, he'd be maybe less kind, I don't know, but he would say you got to pay cash for it.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you care more about having the rental or the beach house?

[Caller]

Like, long, Long term?

[Jade Warshaw]

Term, you tell me. I'm just trying to. I'm trying to decide if you really wanted this beach house. Maybe it's worth you getting out of the rental in order to get it faster and then spending the time spending that seven years to save up for another rental. You know what I'm saying? Maybe you flip flop them in order of priority.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's A decent thought. I just, I like having the one because it does get cash flows very well.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, but you guys also, did you include that in your income? No, that's what I'm saying. You have a great income. It's not like your lifestyle is dependent on it. But if you're saying, hey man, I, I really see us using this beach house and living there and enjoying it, whereas the rental, somebody else is living in it and enjoying it. Maybe it is a situation where you get out of one in order to get the other. I don't know. Yeah, it's just a thought. I'm not saying that that's the right move. It's just something to think about.

[George Camel]

About.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, that would, the, the other rental is probably 250. Would sell for about 250 pretty easily.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your net worth as a couple?

[Caller]

About 1.3.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. This beach house is a great dream. But it's a lot of your world to buy a million dollar beach house. That's about your entire net worth.

[Caller]

Yeah, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's so I think we've done a great job. I think we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves and I think you're going to get there faster than you think. If you guys decide to take debt off the table and cash flow this whole thing. And also you can still have a sweet beach rental that you just rent for a week or two whenever you want to go. You could, you guys have the disposable income to do that. Why not do that to scratch the itch until you can do it the right way?

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, I'm really thinking about this now, Ashley. I think if I woke up tomorrow and I were in your shoes and I was talking to Sam and we were pulling up Zillow and looking at beach house houses, I'd be like, okay, if we sold our rental and let's say we pocketed 200000 from that rental, we throw that in a brokerage. How quickly is that going to multiply?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

In order for us to do the million dollar beach house that we'll get benefit from, you know, in a lot faster of a time frame than you guys starting from scratch throwing money into a brokerage, that's that. I think I'd veer more towards that. And then once we're we've got the debt free house, then we buy the beach house debt free. Now if we want another rental that is just for somebody else to live in, we can save up and pay cash. That's like the ten year horizon thing that you can, you know, be a little bit more patient on.

[Dave Ramsey]

But yeah, George, how quickly I just crunched the numbers. Ashley, here's the proof. So you said how old you're 30.

[Caller]

30. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so at 35, if you, let's say you take your hundred, you do what Jade said, you sell the rental, take the 200 proceeds from that, add it together in an investment account, that's 300. You track reckon then you add eight grand a month to that at a 10% rate of return on average over those four years, you would have 1.1 million five years from now in that one account.

[Caller]

In five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Five years. So this is not like a. Well, when I'm 60, we'll have this dream. I'm saying you could do this faster. You guys have an incredible income. You don't need the rental income. Whatever you guys are doing full time, that's what's working for you. The rental is just gravy on top. And so I like that idea. If you're really gun ho about this and you want to speed it up, you can sell the rental. And even if you didn't, it's probably only a few years beyond that to get, you know, one or two years to do it without selling the rental.

[Caller]

Or should we say my husband also threw out the idea of buying another rental in town that cash flows, but.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't think you're going to pull enough profit to do it faster than what George just suggests.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you would need to pay cash for that, which would take up a lot of your capital.

[Jade Warshaw]

Capital.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I, I think it to simplify. I don't know that you're trying to be real estate moguls. I might just go. I'm going to park this in AN S&P 500 index fund.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let it ride for five years and just keep adding to it. That's personally what I would do if this was our goal is to have a beach paid for beach house. Can I ask where it is?

[Caller]

Near 38.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was hoping you were going to say that. Beautiful area. Great. Can I ask what part is it like? Santa Rosa.

[Caller]

Laguna Beach. It's, it's on the end of Panama City. Break before you get to Santa Rosa.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nice. I love the dream. But guess what? You guys could spend two weeks there and drop five grand and have a great time.

[Caller]

Mm. Yeah, actually my husband said that before.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like great minds think alike. I love your husband, by the way. I think he's, he's Thinking through this. And you guys are thinking through this the right way. I can tell your excitement has gotten ahead of the reality of your. Your finances. But the good news is this is not a pipe dream. This is not a. 20 years from now, maybe this is. It's going to happen with some intentionality if you guys just buckle down and make a plan. And it sounds like you've already done that.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry we didn't give you the answer you want. Were you hoping. Ashley, we were just gonna be like, go ahead, put 20% down. Your husband's being a funny duddy.

[Caller]

Yeah, kinda. But, yeah, he. He is the Dave Ramsey lover. And so he told you.

[Jade Warshaw]

He told you.

[Dave Ramsey]

He was like, no, you call them. Let them be the bad guy instead of me. Is that what happened?

[Caller]

No, he said I wouldn't do it. And I was like, I think. I think we can do it. Let's get it. Let's get Dave's opinion.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a lot of things you can do. There's not much you should do. And so you can go in. You guys will be okay. At the end of the day, this is not going to tank your financial world if you did it, but it's going to give you a lot more peace, less regret to do it slower in cash, and you're not worried about trying to cover the spread. And what if you don't want to rent her? What if you realize, you know what? I don't want people messing with my stuff.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I could not do that personally.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm too ocd.

[Jade Warshaw]

Me too.

[Dave Ramsey]

People going through my stuff, sitting on my couch, sleeping on my bed, their.

[Jade Warshaw]

Feet in my shower. Exactly. Not happening. It ain't happening, George.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want to have to be vetting people's feet before they stay somebody.

[Jade Warshaw]

Else'S hair on your. On your, you know, burn it down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Down.

[Jade Warshaw]

Not happening.

[Dave Ramsey]

Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order?

[Caller]

Yes, I have, George. Sketchy. And never trust them.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's why we recommend delete me. They help with that?

[Caller]

Yeah, they do. Delete me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs.

[Dave Ramsey]

And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find so much. But delete me will delete your data, hence the name. It's gone. They'll wipe it out for you so you can sleep easy.

[Caller]

That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible.

Incredible.

It's so detailed and it's beautiful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get this. So far they've reviewed 27, 000 listings on my behalf, remove me from 240 data broker sites and save me 77 hours of time. It's incredible.

[Caller]

Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20 off their annual plans. Just go to JoinDeleteMe.com that comes up to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable.

[Caller]

Again, that's JoinSlateMe.com Ramsey. Make sure to check it out. You guys.

[George Camel]

Listen, guys. I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the EveryDollar budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free. So no excuses. Download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Foreign. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. It's that time of the show where we get to celebrate someone's debt free journey. And this special someone today is Jenna. How's it going? Good.

[Jenna]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Where are you from?

[Jenna]

I'm from Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome. Thanks for coming all the way to do your debt free scream. How much did you pay off?

[Jenna]

I paid off 30,000 in seven months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's go. And what was the range of income during that that time?

[Jenna]

It was 48, 000 to 58, 000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Awesome. To go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jenna, what do you do for a living?

[Jenna]

I work on a dairy as a herdsman. There.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is rock and roll. A herdsman. Is that the official title?

[Jenna]

Yep. So I take care of cows and making sure, they're healthy and everything. Horses I have, but I don't have any.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. That's how we like it. It's not herds woman. That's not a. Is it? Yeah, I just wanted to make sure. I didn't know. I'm not privy to the lingo in that boss job. That's. I love it. Okay, what was the 30k in debt?

[Jenna]

It was my house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, this is crazy. Okay. Can I ask how old you are? Cuz you seem very young to have accomplished all of this.

[Jenna]

I am 21.

[Jade Warshaw]

So wait a second, Wait a minute. Jenna, you can't just speed past that. Like you didn't just say what you just said.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're just old enough to drink and you already paid off your house?

[Jenna]

Yep. My goal was to pay it off before I turn 21. And then I did that. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Congratulations. What's the housewife worth?

[Jenna]

I bought it for 110 000. So then I had over 100 in the bank myself. So then I had a 30k mortgage.

[Jade Warshaw]

Holy smokes.

[Jenna]

And then. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you been working since you were like seven? How did you accomplish all of this?

[Jenna]

I've worked a lot in high school. I've worked a lot of jobs that, you know, don't necessarily want to work.

[Jade Warshaw]

But she's a herds woman.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not scared to work? Yeah. If you're out there in Sioux Falls.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Milking cows. I don't know what else they do to cows. House branding them. Do you do that too? No. Okay, that's good. That part would scare me. Oh my goodness. So tell us a story. Seven months ago you had a thirty thousand dollar mortgage, which tells me you put down a whole lot on this home when you bought it.

[Jenna]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

You had 80k in the bank and you went, all right, I'm gonna buy this house. A very reasonable house.

[Jenna]

Yep. So I live in a really small town. That's rules. So then like only 600 people in the town. So then that's how the price was low because it's an older home but in good condition. And then. Yeah. Get into the housing market when you can. And that's what I did.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

On your own you did all this? That's incredible. Okay, so seven months ago, what clicked? What got you on this sort of Ramsey plan of like, I'm gonna get rid of this mortgage?

[Jenna]

Well, I grew up on a dairy farm. And then When I was 15, my parents went bankrupt. So we lost everything. We lost our farm, the land, everything. And yeah, ever since then I knew I'm not gonna go through that, and I'm gonna set myself up better than what I had to go through, and I won't put myself or my future family through that again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did that. Did that partially cause you to grow up fast? Oh, first going through that as a kid, for sure.

[Jenna]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jenna]

Yep.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm astounded. I. I truly am. I. You know, you said you're in a small town, but you're 21. You're not making small money. I mean, almost $60,000 a year.

[Jenna]

Yep. I work a lot. I mean, in the ag industry, you don't get paid overtime time, but that's just how it goes. So you just work a lot, and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who'S making all these egg profits then? That's what I want to know.

[Jenna]

My dairy farmers.

[Dave Ramsey]

That makes me feel better, at least when I go to pay for eggs.

[Jade Warshaw]

You said ag or egg.

[Jenna]

Egg.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got to. You got to ask in this world.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know. I just wanted to make sure. Okay, this is crazy. So who was. Who was rooting for you? I'm sure your parents were on the sideline, just baffled at what you've accomplished.

[Jenna]

Yep. So I had a lot of my family and my friends were super supportive of. I think some people thought I was really weird, but. No, I don't. I've had the same car since I was 15, so I don't really upgrade much. And a pretty cheap stake, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Well, I mean, most people's cars are worth more than your mortgage was. That's impressive.

[Jenna]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you still paid it off at an astounding rate. I mean, you were putting over four grand a month on average toward this, making 48 to 58. How did you do that? Did you sell anything? Or was this all, like, you were living off of $700 a month and throwing the rest at the mortgage? Mortgage?

[Jenna]

Well, for the first five months, I had a renter in there. A flood hit our area, like, right after I bought it. So then, like, a ton of people lost their home. So then I had a family of immigrants that needed a place to stay, so they lived there for, like, five months. So then, yeah, I charged some cheap rent, so they covered my electric and utility costs, and so I could throw everything at it.

[Jade Warshaw]

You are incredible. You're, like, astounding.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just so nonchalant. I would be bragging in the streets. She's like, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And she's like, yeah, I house some immigrants. I made sure. Like, this is amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I held the door open for someone, and I'm still like, I did a good deed today. Wow, you're incredible. Jenna. This is amazing. What was the hardest part of this journey for you?

[Jenna]

Probably just staying on track and not getting sidetracked by everyone else. Like seeing, you know, other people getting new cars, you know, fancy clothes, fancy jobs, but they work only 40 hours a week where I work 50 to 60 hours a week, just like that kind of stuff and just staying on the track. But the budget really helped. Every dollar are extremely helpful.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you are the real deal. You know, I don't have anything to say other than she's the real. I feel like you've put a lot of people, you're putting a lot of people to shame in a good way right now. Anybody who had excuses, it's like, look at Jenna. I have no excuses.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you gonna loosen up now? Are you gonna finally upgrade some things? Upgrade the car, enjoy life more? Are you still gonna keep at it?

[Jenna]

I'm trying to. It's pretty hard for me to loosen up, but I'm trying.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I need people in my life to force me to loosen up. Like Jade and Ken.

[Jade Warshaw]

I try. I've tried.

[Jenna]

They're always trying to get my have the same problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

My wallet a little looser. I'm hanging on tight. I got skinny jeans for that reason. Harder for money to fall out. So what's the next thing you're going to do now that you're in baby step seven with a paid for house at 21?

[Jenna]

Well, I want to upgrade the car eventually. And then I just want to do some upgrades to the house, new carping, flooring, just stuff like that. Just little things. And then I want to be able to give generously.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, yeah, I love it. And you will.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you paint us the picture of this, your dream car, your thinking? Thinking of?

[Jenna]

Oh, I don't really have a dream car. I'm not much of a car person.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go.

[Jade Warshaw]

I understand that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you need like a truck for the farm or like, are you gonna get a modest sedan? What are we thinking?

[Jenna]

Just probably like a small SUV or something. I have a niece and nephew I like to take around, so just a little bigger of the car than I do have for their car seats.

[Dave Ramsey]

What a good person. She's car shopping with her niece and nephew in mind.

[Jade Warshaw]

All I can say is the gentleman that comes calling later on trying to be Mr. Jenna, he better come correct because you are not playing around. That's all I'm saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not again. Yeah, I mean, a town of 600 people. Can you throw Yourself. A parade in the town. How does this work? Does everyone know you in the area?

[Jenna]

Yeah, basically everyone knows everyone. Everyone's and everyone's business, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

So they know you were on this journey?

[Jenna]

No, I don't like to broadcast that, but I know. I just want other people to see that they can do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I will personally get in touch with all 599 other people who live in your town and make them watch this video to celebrate. You are worth celebrating.

[Jenna]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you for joining us. We do have a parting gift for you two. Every dollar. Premium subscriptions, good for a year. You can use those. You can pass them on to maybe some of the people who said you were weird because they're going to be asking you for advice now. You're now a financial coach for the entire area. The entire county is now going to be like, what is she doing? Because we got to step up our game. Are there a lot of. I'm guessing the more rural you get, the less likely they are to go into debt to impress people.

[Jenna]

It's kind of the opposite. I live in a very ag community where it's very expensive to buy land, very expensive to farm, very expensive to do anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so they're all in crippling debt.

[Jenna]

Probably, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But not necessarily to impress. It's just like, hey, you want the farm equipment? We're going to have to, you know, go into debt for it, and we got to have a nice truck to do it. We're going to have to go into debt for that. And you somehow have avoided all of that.

[Jenna]

I have. I just hate Dad. I hate the stress. I hate the feeling it brings to your life. And, yeah, you just have one wrong year and everything can be gone. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, that money trauma growing up shaped you to see your parents go through that bankruptcy, and now you're using it for good to change your own family tree because you're going to put yourself in such a place where bankruptcy is never going to be on the table.

[Jenna]

That's the plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't owe anyone anything.

[Jenna]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's beautiful. Do you have dreams or aspirations of kind of like owning your own own piece of land and farm one day?

[Jenna]

Yep, I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Instead of working for someone else for.

[Jenna]

Sure, I definitely want to buy my own place that's a lot bigger and out of the town, but, yeah, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Think you'll get there by the time you're 23, you have accomplished that. What now? We are so proud of you.

[Jenna]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's get to the fun. Part we've got Jenna from Sioux Falls, South Dakota. $30,000 paid off. That's her mortgage. Did it in seven months. Making 48 to 58K. Adds a as a herdsman or herds woman.

[Jade Warshaw]

Herds lady.

[Dave Ramsey]

Count it down, Jenna. Let's hear that debt free scream.

[Jenna]

Three, two, one.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think that was. Heard that. That was pretty good.

[Jade Warshaw]

That was pretty good.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's impressive. Do you remember us at 21? We were knuckle heads. I'm still a knucklehead, but I'm a knucklehead.

[Jade Warshaw]

I just mooed on the radio.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm scared to see her at 41. She might own the entire town.

[Jade Warshaw]

She. She's made different. She's built different. That's all I can say.

[Dave Ramsey]

God bless. What an inspiration. It's possible. You got to make some sacrifices. You gotta have some skin in the game, but you can do this stuff. You can become debt free and join us on this stage. We will celebrate you all day long. Until the cows come. Come home. When you're tackling debt or building wealth, you can often forget about one important step to reaching those goals, which is insurance. Having the right coverage, whether not enough, too much can impact how long it takes to get there. And skipping on insurance might seem like I'm saving money, but when life happens, it's easy to fall back into debt without a safety net. So the right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones, around your wealth if disaster strikes. And in some cases, it can even save you money money if you're paying for too much insurance or for bogus insurance like cell phone insurance or alien abduction insurance. You know, there's all kinds of crazy ones out there. So how do you know if you have the right coverage? We make it easy. You can take our coverage checkup. It's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan that's unique to you and your situation. It makes an overly confusing topic easy to understand and gives you clear next steps. So go check it out. Go to ramseysolutions.com check checkup to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

[Jade Warshaw]

Alien abduction insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a real one. You see the one where the atheists will to the Christians will say, hey, we'll take care of your dogs if the rapture happens if you pay us a fee.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, aliens, yes or no? Real quick.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not the way we think of them. Are there living organisms? That's plausible. Okay, but I'm out on the alien. Like the green, you know?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I got you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are they smarter than us? I don't know. Who's to say?

[Jade Warshaw]

Who's to say?

[Dave Ramsey]

What if it's like a raccoon, you know what I mean? Like, they're not that intelligent.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm done.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's all I have to say about that. All right, Wesley is in Edmonton. Alberto, what's going on, Wesley? How can we help today?

[Mike]

Hey, how are you guys doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing great.

[Caller]

So.

[Mike]

So my wife and I are starting to get into a business that I used to do for a bunch of years and I took time off and landscaping and what I had known to work for me at that time was small scale, but she's looking to upscale it and get to a bigger place. And I respect that. But we seem to be having some. Some key differences in how we're approaching that. And I just want to get on the same page with my wife on how we can work this together. With her professionalism in this and then my previous experience in what we've done.

[Jade Warshaw]

What does she want to do versus what you want to do? What are the differences?

[Mike]

So with what I do, how I was doing it before was a lot of in person door knocking, very grindy. She wants to take it into obviously 2025, where there's a lot more pre booking of these services, a lot more online. That sort of thing, which is just in my experience, hasn't worked as well.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, is it because. Because that wasn't your level of expertise or is it because you tried working with an expert that could help you with your website and your SEO and it still didn't work?

[Mike]

I believe it was more. More with the former. So I was never skilled at that. I'm much more people oriented in person and she seems to have a lot more of a grasp in the online things.

[Jade Warshaw]

Could you do a combo of both?

[Mike]

That's what I'm. That's what I want to do. I just find that she's. She discredits a lot of what I've done into where we are. And I just want to be able to approach that conversation amicably.

[Jade Warshaw]

I understand. I'll be honest. It sounds like there's a little something else underneath there. This not just a business thing. I'm not going to get too much into that, but I do think that it's probably a combo of both, especially starting out, because the truth is it does take money to get some of those other things off the ground. Do you guys have cash to invest in this?

[Mike]

No. Well, this is, that's the thing is when I've been doing. This is. It's not about a major. This is working towards getting an investment into owning our own equipment. We do a bit of rental, working it that way as opposed to, to dropping the thousands of dollars that are needed to have the machines ourselves.

[Jade Warshaw]

So right now, are you going out there making money in the landscape business right now or this is just you guys talking about revamping this thing?

[Mike]

No, I'm out there. Usually I work a full time job, 10 to 12 hours a day, and then when I'm done my day, I go out and pursue the people who I've had leads from doing jobs.

[Dave Ramsey]

So both of you are working full time in other jobs right now?

[Mike]

She is not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, is she at home with kids or what's she doing?

[Mike]

No, no kids. We have, we don't have children. She is just, she was working. She is. And hasn't for about the last, I'd say six to eight months.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what did she do before? Was she in marketing? Retail. Okay, so, okay, here's what I'm seeing. I, I'm seeing a couple dynamics here. One is you've done this before and I don't know to what tune. I don't know how successful you were or you were not, but you have some experience here and you're relying heavily on that. She also is probably like, I gotta turn this into something because I'm not working right now. So her motivation is probably like, we gotta go fast, we gotta do this thing. Let's take it to the website, let's take it, do the SEO stuff. And so you're both kind of in your own worlds of what you think needs to happen. I mean, if you called in here, I'm going to tell you it's probably a combination of both. I wouldn't go into debt to do any of this. And it doesn't sound like you are. And from that perspective, I just ask her. I'd say, hey, what stops us? Tell me in your mind what stops us from doing both? Are you. Because one of them requires me door knocking and, you know, hitting the pavement and one of them doesn't. One of them is really an online pledge that doesn't require my time. So why can't I then still continue to put my extra time into, you know, enriching that by knocking on doors and talking to people face to face? What would she say to that? It's not a negative, I'm sure.

[Mike]

No, no, I'm sure. That would be. Probably be a lot better than how I've approached.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm gonna do it like this, and you can't stop me. Is that what you're doing?

[Mike]

Well, it's. I just. I'm. I agree with what she says, but I also say, like, this is where my experience lies. So if we can utilize mine and what I'm doing and get to that point where we're using both, it's. That's where my mindset has been.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think there's a great compromise. I think both paths have validity to them, but I think we need to hear each other instead of just trying to get our point across the line.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And win the argument. I think both of you are probably guilty of this. Right. She's gone. Well, you don't understand. You don't know how the Internet works, and you're going, well, I've done this stuff for years, and you don't understand, so that's not going to get us anywhere. I think it's wise for you to go first with humility and say, hey, I feel like I've really screwed the pooch on this one. Can we just reset? Can we create a vision for what this business is going to be together where you have as much input as I do? I think she would be like, oh, my gosh, who is this guy?

[Mike]

No, that sounds like definitely what I've wanted to say. Just not wanting to approach that better. I just. I appreciate the. The knowledge you have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, it sounds like she's also on her own journey to finding some purpose. I mean, she wants something to sink her teeth into, and every time she does, you're kind of swatting her away, going, hey, this is my territory. I know how to do this. And so I think you. You need to let her, because you also don't have a lot of time. I mean, I don't know how you're working 10 to 12 hours and doing this on top of that with a.

[Mike]

With a lot of grit.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think she doesn't want to see you burn out either. Taking it all on your shoulders. Are. Is there a vis. Grow this thing? It sounds like she wants to scale it, and you're like, well, no, I know how to do it. Right. I don't want to delegate. I don't want to hire a team. Is this all on you?

[Mike]

I definitely want. I definitely want to scale. I just want to do it properly. I know when I had done it before is when you work with people, you have to really trust who you're working with and then earn through with them. And that's definitely what I would like to do. I know she has a larger vision in mind than what I've had.

[Jade Warshaw]

When you did it before, what were you earning off of it?

[Mike]

I was doing anywhere between. Again, just on my own time. Between 100 to 150 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I think that's great. I mean, that is a real. You were making a real income on that. So I understand why you're kind of leaning on that. And I think you're right there. Again, it is a combination of what both of you are saying. And I think. And George kind of touched on this. You guys want to accomplish the same thing. You have slightly different ways of going about it. And I think the important thing to remember is that you're on the same team. Team. And you're trying to do the same things. And. And I mean, I know, George, you're married, I'm married. Sometimes you forget that. And it's more about being right than about going, oh, we both want the same thing. I'm gonna agree with some of what you're saying, and you agree with some of what I'm saying, and we'll be good.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know exactly how to push each other's buttons, and you're tempted to push them all the time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I think we. Let's define the vision, let's define the roles. Let's get on a whiteboard for a weekend and pretend like this is a real business and go, how are we going to dream this thing up? And maybe you go, I'm founder and CEO. You are the COO and cmo. So if it's marketing, that's her job.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't get involved. And I think making clear lines of who owns what is going to really help. And I want to send you Dave Ramsey's new book, build a business you love. I think it's going to help you guys map that vision out and help you grow this thing to the place you want it to go. So hang on the line. We'll send that all the way across the border. If we can make it through customs, we'll see. Hey, what are you still doing here? You know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey network app. Right. So you got to jump over to this there to continue watching. You can download it for free. Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey network. It's completely free. And I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right, go on now. Don't make it weird. Okay, I got nowhere to go, so you need to go. Okay, Bye. Bye, now. All right, this is getting weird over there, guys. What do we do?