You Can’t Win With Money if You Keep Ignoring the Real Problem

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show Episode Title: You Can’t Win With Money if You Keep Ignoring the Real Problem
Release Date: December 17, 2024
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Dr. John Deloney, PhD

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and his co-host, Dr. John Deloney, delve into complex financial and relational issues faced by listeners. The episode focuses on how ignoring underlying problems can derail financial stability and personal relationships. Through real-life callers, Ramsey and Deloney offer practical advice rooted in Ramsey's Baby Steps philosophy.

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Caller 1: Navigating In-Laws After Financial Conflicts

Caller: Stacy from Cape Town, South Africa
Timestamp: [00:50] – [08:34]

Issue: Stacy seeks guidance on handling a strained relationship with her husband's family after lending his father $100,000. The loan, given verbally without formal documentation, was intended to be repaid upon the sale of the father's property. However, the repayment has been delayed, leading to familial tension and accusations of being "money-minded."

Advice: Dave Ramsey suggests two primary options:

1. Forgive the Loan: Ramsey advises Stacy and her husband to have an honest conversation with the father-in-law, admit the mistake of not formalizing the loan, and choose to forgive the debt to restore peace.

   • Notable Quote: “[04:00] Dave Ramsey: ...you could forgive this loan. Forget it. Don’t worry about it. Your life won't change one instant if you do that except you'll be free.”

2. Walk Away: Alternatively, they can silently let go of the debt without discussing it, allowing repayment to be a surprise if it happens.

   • Notable Quote: “[06:39] Dave Ramsey: ...just let it go. But don’t say anything and just forget it and walk away.”

Conclusion: Ramsey emphasizes the importance of not allowing financial disputes to damage family relationships and reinforces the rule: “Don’t loan family members money. Give it to them or say no, thank you.”

• Notable Quote: “[08:34] Dave Ramsey: Yeah, period. No exceptions. That's the rule. Give it to them.”

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Caller 2: Parents Moving to Las Vegas – To Rent or Buy?

Caller: Brenda from Las Vegas
Timestamp: [09:53] – [16:16]

Issue: Brenda is helping her elderly parents transition from rural Florida to the more expensive Las Vegas. She contemplates whether it's wiser for her parents to rent a home or for her and her husband to purchase a property and rent it to them.

Advice: Dave Ramsey advises purchasing a cash-paid condo in a 55+ community to ensure affordability and ease of resale in the future.

• Notable Quote: “[11:28] Dave Ramsey: ...buy cash for half million or less...”

Stacy adds that maintaining a debt-free situation provides financial stability, especially considering the possibility of their parents living another 20 years.

• Notable Quote: “[12:16] Stacy: ...you stabilize the environment. Zero payments. And now you've got a sustainable situation with peace for them.”

Ramsey also highlights that different cost-of-living factors, like real estate, can significantly impact budgeting and financial planning.

• Notable Quote: “[13:57] Stacy: ...solve for peace in the present...”

Conclusion: The hosts agree that cutting real estate-related expenses by buying a property outright can lead to long-term financial peace and stability.

• Notable Quote: “[14:34] Dave Ramsey: ...solve for peace both times...”

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Caller 3: Rebuilding Financial Health Before Baby Arrival

Caller: Martin from Columbia, South Carolina
Timestamp: [17:01] – [27:27]

Issue: Martin, at 34 years old, is nearing fatherhood with no savings and a poor credit score. He’s $27,000 in debt and earning close to $2,000 a month. He’s considering career shifts into trade work like plumbing.

Advice: Ramsey encourages Martin to:

1. Increase Income: Suggests pursuing plumbing to potentially triple his income.
2. Debt Repayment: Emphasizes aggressive debt repayment to achieve financial freedom quickly.
   • Notable Quote: “[26:17] Dave Ramsey: ...you're going to get free forever.”

Stacy supports Ramsey’s approach, advising setting concrete financial deadlines and focusing on essential expenses to enable debt elimination within a predictable timeframe.

• Notable Quote: “[27:27] Stacy: ...solve for peace right now.”

Conclusion: By scaling up income and adhering to a strict budget, Martin can eliminate his debt within two years, setting a solid foundation for his growing family.

• Notable Quote: “[27:27] Dave Ramsey: ...get out in two years. Is that false hope? That's real.”

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Caller 4: Balancing Hobbies and Financial Goals During Baby Step Two

Caller: Hope (via Ramsey Network App)
Timestamp: [32:30] – [40:35]

Issue: Hope and her husband are in Baby Step Two, aiming to save $12,000 more. Her husband prioritizes hunting, spending up to $1,200 on each hunting trip, which Hope feels hinders their financial progress.

Advice: Ramsey and Stacy tackle the issue by:

1. Reevaluating Expenses: Encouraging Hope’s husband to modify his hunting habits to reduce costs, such as processing deer at home instead of professional services.

   • Notable Quote: “[36:43] Stacy: ...going to have to do something different because you're broke.”

2. Setting Financial Priorities: Suggests prioritizing debt repayment over expensive hobbies during critical financial steps.

   • Notable Quote: “[38:16] Stacy: ...financial plan before doing anything expensive.”

Conclusion: The hosts advocate for balancing personal interests with financial responsibilities, ensuring that hobbies do not impede progress toward financial freedom.

• Notable Quote: “[39:16] Dave Ramsey: ...find ways you both want to do...`

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Caller 5: Dealing with Overbearing In-Laws

Caller: Abigail from West Virginia
Timestamp: [53:56] – [60:35]

Issue: Abigail is overwhelmed by her mother-in-law’s unsolicited involvement in her household, including cleaning and organizing without permission.

Advice: Ramsey and Stacy emphasize the need for boundaries and encourage Abigail’s husband to take decisive action in setting those boundaries.

• Notable Quote: “[54:35] Dave Ramsey: You have a husband problem.”

Stacy suggests:

1. Establishing Clear Boundaries: Advises changing the locks and communicating firmly with the mother-in-law.
2. Marriage Counseling: Recommends seeking professional help if the husband is unable to assert boundaries.

Conclusion: Effective communication and boundary-setting are crucial in maintaining healthy marital and familial relationships.

• Notable Quote: “[57:02] Dave Ramsey: ...leave your mother and father...”

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Caller 6: Long-Term Care Insurance and Financial Planning for Health Issues

Caller: Allison from Mesa, Arizona
Timestamp: [65:13] – [74:26]

Issue: Allison is concerned about securing long-term healthcare for her husband, recently diagnosed with aggressive stage 4 cancer, and wonders if she should invest in long-term care insurance or annuities.

Advice: Ramsey assesses Allison’s situation by analyzing her retirement savings and potential expenses:

1. Self-Insuring: With $950,000 in retirement funds, Ramsey concludes that Allison is financially prepared to handle long-term care costs without additional insurance.

   • Notable Quote: “[72:09] Dave Ramsey: ...you're self-insured for long term care needs.”

2. Investment Growth: Encourages relying on investment growth to cover potential healthcare expenses in the future.

   • Notable Quote: “[69:00] Dave Ramsey: ...if it's invested in good mutual funds and averages 10%...”

Conclusion: Given her substantial retirement savings, Allison does not need to prioritize long-term care insurance at this time and can rely on her investments to cover future healthcare needs.

• Notable Quote: “[70:39] Dave Ramsey: ...you’re fine.”

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Financial Strategies and Tools Discussed

• EveryDollar App: Ramsey promotes the EveryDollar budgeting app, encouraging listeners to assign every dollar a role to manage their finances effectively.

  • Notable Quote: “[75:14] Stacy: ...create some great holiday memories without the stress of overspending.”

• Financial Peace University: Offered as a resource to help individuals and couples navigate financial challenges through structured guidance.

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Conclusion and Upcoming Events

Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney conclude the episode by announcing the upcoming Money and Relationships Tour, emphasizing interactive and audience-driven content tailored to listeners' financial and relational needs.

Final Thoughts: The episode underscores the importance of addressing underlying issues in financial and personal relationships to achieve long-term stability and peace. Ramsey’s practical advice, combined with real-life scenarios, provides listeners with actionable steps to overcome their financial challenges.

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Notable Quotes:

• “[04:00] Dave Ramsey: ...you could forgive this loan. Forget it. Don’t worry about it. Your life won't change one instant if you do that except you'll be free.”
• “[08:34] Dave Ramsey: Yeah, period. No exceptions. That's the rule. Give it to them.”
• “[27:27] Dave Ramsey: ...get out in two years. Is that false hope? That's real.”
• “[54:35] Dave Ramsey: You have a husband problem.”
• “[72:09] Dave Ramsey: ...you're self-insured for long term care needs.”

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions, advice, and actionable strategies shared by Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney to help listeners navigate financial and relational complexities.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Foreign the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, PhD in counseling, Ramsey personality number one best selling author. He's my co host today. Open phones at Triple 8-825-5225. Stacy's in Cape Town, South Africa. Hi, Stacy. What's up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. Wonderful food scene there. Y'all got some nice restaurants, kiddo.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, are you guys hanging in tight for my story?

[Dave Ramsey]

We're ready. Bring it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so my question is, how do my husband and I navigate the very strange relationship we now have with his family after multiple instances of disloyalty and dishonesty. So my father in law needs to repay a loan of $100,000 to us and hasn't done it yet. It's been two years now and four months ago the in laws and my husband wanted to start a new business. They actually own a family business and that was around the time when we moved into our new home. They sold a house and a couple of days later off my husband to put our house up as their loan guarantee for their new business as it was worth around $2 million. And oh, my husband wouldn't be the business owner, but just an employee. So since then the relationship, I assume.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your husband said no.

[Dr. John Deloney]

My husband, when he was so angry, he said not only no, but now pay us back $100,000 straight away. And now he's just keep distancing himself from them, which I totally understand. But how do we navigate this situation? How do we get the $100,000 back? I. I have no idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. When the. Is there any documentation or legal contracts on the $100,000 or was this a handshake?

[Dr. John Deloney]

The bank. Oh, no. When we did the bank transfer, we. It literally showed up as loan to xyz.

[Dave Ramsey]

That doesn't matter. I mean they didn't sign a note, they didn't sign a contract with you to repay?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, it was just verbal.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's a handshake. And you wired him the money. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And was there any discussion at the time as to what the repayment terms would be?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, at the time they said that as soon as they sell their house because they had a secondary house that they didn't use. As soon as they sell their house, they're going to pay us back.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they did. And then they did sell their house. Then they did sell their house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, they didn't. But they've had multiple offers. They just keep turning them down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Offers that match, they're asking price.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, you got yourself in a pickle, didn't you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I know, I know. And now my husband is feeling a bit guilty and he's, he keeps asking me if is he a good person because he told his dad now to repay everything back and yes, yes, he's a good person.

[Dave Ramsey]

His dad is not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, well, the mom's getting involved in telling everybody that we are money minded and we are keeping our kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what they told you, what they tell people. What they tell people doesn't matter. They don't really get a vote because they're the people that don't pay bills and propose absurd business things. They don't get a vote anymore. They lost their vote. What they tell people are what they think is irrelevant. Agreed.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Other than it hurts your husband's feelings, but I mean that his dad's being a twerp to him, but yeah.

[Stacy]

John, are y'all of mean? Stacy, you live in a 2 million dollar house. I'm assuming you'll have money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, yes.

[Stacy]

This is easy for me to say on this side of the, of the ocean, but you're probably not going to get that money back. And just your husband making laps around the living room every night existentially wondering if he's a good person. Is he costing his relationship with his dad? Is yada. I don't know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, that's exactly what's happening.

[Stacy]

I can imagine there. Here's the deal. He, your father in law needs to pay back the money. He's probably not going to. He probably can't. And y'all now Dave and I have been talking about this forever. Dave's for three decades before I even showed up. When you loan a family member money, you change the nature of your relationship together. Now you are invested in them accepting an offer on their house. Right. That's a transaction that should be between them and their any potential seller and what they want to do and whether they want to keep two houses or not. But now you're invested in it and you are now judging from afar their interactions. But it's because y'all loaned them money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, right.

[Stacy]

So now there's the whole thing's a mess. I can see a world where your husband sits down with his dad and says dad, I got mad, I blew my top. What's reasonable for repayment? And there's also a thing where he says dude, this is a gift. I'm Writing it off. I'm moving on with my life.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your all's net worth?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think about 11 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so one possibility is take a deep breath, call dad and say, dad, I shouldn't have loaned you this money without any documentation. I made a huge mistake. It's costing us our relationship. I'm not going to do any business with you because I can't really trust you on transactions. But we still do want to have dinner with you. We still want to interact with you, and we're going to forgive this loan. Forget it. Don't worry about it. Your life won't change one instant if you do that. Except you'll be free. Right now, you guys are burning $10 million worth of calories over 100 grand.

[Dr. John Deloney]

True. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You could let it go. For your sake, you could. That's one possibility. The second possibility is almost do that, but just let it go. But don't say anything and just forget it. Walk away. And then if they do pay you, let that be just like a pleasant surprise. But don't even have a conversation with them about it. Just forget it and just walk away. But you guys are. It's destroying y'all. It's. You know, they're sitting over there smiling. You're sitting over here freaked out. But again, and if I'm in your shoes, I'm also going to own my part of this. And the only part of this I really would call you two out on is you should never have done this transaction. And if you were going to do the transaction, you should have had a lot more business minded about it. Handshake on 100 grand is ridiculous. And so you ask for it. So when I do something stupid and it costs me money, I call it stupid tax. So I think you paid 100 grand in stupid tax. It's just a matter of when and when you want to pay it. Whether you want to tell them today or whether you want to just forget it and say, I'm going to pretend like this never happened. I'm not even going to bring it up in my mind again. We're not going to bring it up in our marriage again. We're not going to ever do business with these people in any scenario. But we can be kind to them. They're. They're blood family.

[Stacy]

I like option one. I like the. There's something about owning it and calling dad and mom and saying, I shouldn't have done this. I did it, and y'all are free from it. And we'll be over for dinner On Sunday, I'm move on with my life.

[Dave Ramsey]

And for you regular people, it would be like if you loaned them 100.

[Stacy]

Bucks or a thousand bucks. Right, right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or a thousand bucks. You people that don't have $11 million. So just, just kind of. It's all about ratios here. Okay? So.

[Stacy]

Don'T loan family members money. Give it to them or say no, thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, period. No exceptions. That's the rule. Give it to them.

[Stacy]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, it's that time of year. It's starting to get a little bit colder. It's getting a little bit dark earlier. And sometimes if you're like me, you just want to stay inside and get cozy. And for me, my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets, watching a movie, sitting by the fire, maybe even reading a book. Listen, we whatever your perfect night in looks like, sometimes therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, finally exhale, replenish your energy, and begin to take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any other time of year. Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one of the reasons I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapist. You can talk with your therapist just about anytime and just about anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist and you can switch therapists for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.

[Dave Ramsey]

H E L p.com DeLoney Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey Personalities. My co host today, Brenda's in Las Vegas. Hi, Brenda. Welcome to the Ramsey.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hello.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi. What's up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

My husband and I are. Well, my parents are moving from their home in Florida. They're going to be selling their home there and moving to where we live, which is in Las Vegas. And that is a big difference. Economically, it's a much more expensive city to live in than where they are rurally. Talking with my parents, they just want to make a wise decision on what they need to do with moving here. So there we've been talking through, would it be better for them to rent a house at their age? They're 80 and 78. Would it be better for them to purchase a home in this economy? And my husband and I have also talked about the possibility of us purchasing A home and then just renting it to my parents. But we want to make a wise choice and so we just. I thought I will just call you and see what you think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'll pass on the rent to my parents option. So they're going to sell their property there and it's worth what?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Probably get half a million.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they can't buy anything in Las Vegas for half a million. Come on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They can, but I don't think it's, it's not whether they can afford it or not. They know they can afford it. I think they just want to make sure that long term, at their age, would that be still a good choice? I figured I would buy a nice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Condo that I didn't have to do any maintenance on in an area that demographically, you know, I'm not moving into a neighborhood's a bunch of 20 year olds if I'm 80.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, there's a 55 plus community near us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly. And those, those properties, if when these two pass away someday that you can market that property without any trouble, you're not going to be stuck in it. It's not a weird property, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, it would be a good property. So buying, purchasing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Pay cash for. Pay cash for half million or less. That's what they're moving the other property out for, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Stacy]

They may live for another 20 years. And so you got 20 years of rent going up. And I would want to be in my 70s and 80s with my biggest asset set.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your biggest expense in every budget is housing. And when it goes up every year, you've destabilized your environment.

[Stacy]

So let's take it off the table.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so let's stabilize the environment. Zero payments. And now we've got a sustainable situation with peace for them. And they're near you. And by the way, the difference in where are they moving from?

[Dr. John Deloney]

In Florida, it's a very rural community, the Panhandle near Panama City.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the difference in cost of living there and the cost of living in Las Vegas is very little. Except real estate. Real estate's way different. I'll go along with that. But a gallon of gas is about the same. A loaf of bread is about the same. It's not like double in Vegas what it is the Panhandle in Florida. It might be 10 cents more a gallon or something like that. It's 10 cents more a gallon in my neighborhood than it is one county over. Because they can get away with it in my neighborhood. But you know that you're going to get some of that kind of stuff. But, but by and large cost of living when you say that, you know, really electricity, not substantially different, you know, property taxes may be higher. Yeah, might have that. But real estate related things, that's where you see most. That drives most cost of living indexes into a spiral. If you take real estate out of cost living indexes, you don't find huge differences in a household budget from city to city. You find some difference, but not huge differences. So then that changes the conversation too when you reframe it that way.

[Stacy]

And Dave, tell me if my matrix is wrong here. I've got. You've got Brenda, whose parents are in their 70s. So let's always want to pretend they might live to 90. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Stacy]

That's five more presidential elections from now. To think we could predict what the world will look like in 20 years. It feels better for me to say I don't know. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to solve for peace in the present. And that looks like no house payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Stacy]

That feels like a wiser choice than trying to speculate on was this going to be a good investment? What's going to happen in 20 years? And who knows? Who knows?

[Dave Ramsey]

So here's the thing. I mean that's a really good point to pan back and keep perspective because in 2008 when the real estate market, Vegas was one of the, it was the fastest growing city in America at that point.

[Stacy]

And they got crushed.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they got the hardest hit on the bubble. They had the most, the most value loss of any city in America. Now it rebounded very quickly, I was gonna say.

[Stacy]

And if you'd walk in with, with, with $100 million of cash and just started buying places, you would be worth an unfathomable amount of money right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

A trillion. Yeah, you'd be worth 10x.

[Stacy]

So it just does like. So who knows?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you. And who would have predicted 2008 because Vegas was a boomtown. If you'd have done this deal in 2007, 2006, you wouldn't. You know, you're exactly right because it's odd that that. But it did, it went, it went in half. You could buy real estate everywhere and then it bounded right back. Thank God it's a wonderful city.

[Stacy]

And the last time I was there, they were building like crazy economically.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a wonderful city again. Yeah, but, but that just tells you 2008, not that long ago.

[Stacy]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're only 15 years. So you know, it's not that, that's a good point. And that, gosh, if you'd have done this deal back then and they were 20 years later. 30 years later. 30 years. 20 years. A long time.

[Stacy]

Or maybe tell me if this is a bad way to look at it, because I don't look at things like real estate investment. But let's say things. Let's pretend it went in half again in 20 years, and mom passes away, dad passes away. They live 20 more years. Great times with the grandkids. And you have to sell that place. You're still walking away with a check for three or four hundred thousand dollars and you've lost. Let's pretend it cuts in half, which.

[Dave Ramsey]

It won't from today.

[Stacy]

From today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. That would be unprecedented.

[Stacy]

You still walk away with a chunk of money, Right? It's still, you're still okay is what I'm saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Stacy]

And so I, I, I guess this long term stuff, like, I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I guess there's, if you pan back, you make better decisions. Yeah.

[Stacy]

Just solve for peace right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Solve for peace long term, too. Make better decisions. I was doing a podcast this morning with a friend of mine that's just started a new one that's famous. It'll be out later. And I said, the stuff we teach, these biblical financial principles, they're the only financial principles that work in good times and bad times. So if we have a banner wonderful year in 2025, she's asking what 25's gonna do. You know, these are the same principles that are going to work, but they're also the same principles that work when we're not having a banner year.

[Stacy]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you solve for peace both times. And that, that gets us there. So Martin is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey, Martin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Hey, thank you for taking my question. Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I just got a quick question. I'm 34, I got no savings. I got a baby on the way in May.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And. And my credit score is in the crapper, and I don't know where to begin to rebuild.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome. You're in a great place. So the baby was like, wake up call, Martin. Time to get real. Right?

[Stacy]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's what the wake up call was. And I'm $27,000 in debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What do you make?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Which may not seem.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Close to two grand a month, Maybe a little bit more, depending on how much.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do for a living?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Take care of animals.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm. You don't make Much money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I've also. I don't. But I also have options of buying the business if I work hard enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would I want this business? It doesn't make any money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's. Well, that's true.

[Stacy]

So, yeah, I'm also thinking about getting.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Into trade work too, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of what kind?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Plumbing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, that would triple your income.

[Stacy]

But it's going to be seven years before you make any money.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll be triple's income as an intern compared to what he's making now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I was hoping like, maybe you guys might have some guidance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So how old are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm 34.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you been married?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not long. Not too long.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's that mean? Yesterday.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We're not married yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We're not married yet.

[Stacy]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I thought it meant.

[Stacy]

Really not long.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like really not long at all. Gonna be this weekend, Dave. Merry Christmas. Ho, ho, ho. Here we go. All right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, we're living together in a camper. To save money, I bet. Okay, so things are really tight right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Stacy]

So you got to go get a job. Two jobs. Right now. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to get your income up substantially, sir. Get your little family married and get them into a little one bedroom apartment. You don't raise mama and the baby in a camper. Honey. Time to man up now. Time to quit playing around. Y'all were playing around. Going camping. Now you got. Now you got a deal. Now you got a deal. So it's time to step up. You can do it. Hang on. We'll help you. We'll put you through Financial Peace University to help you get your money together. But dude, you got to get your income up now. Now this is the Ramsey Show. Hey, I'm excited to talk about a new sponsor. Burna. You all probably know I'm a gun guy, but I'm big on safety, so I'm also a burner guy. Burna is the ungun, a less lethal option that protects you in more ways than one. A burner is effective self defense when you need it. It also helps protect your assets from lawsuits if you have no choice but to use force. Because a Burna pistol immobilizes attackers without fatal harm. I have several burner pistols and I love them. In fact, I had a burner before they started advertising with us. They're easy to use with no recoil and no noise reduction needed. They're legal in all 50 states with no permits required. And because they're not firearms, they can be shipped right to your door and you can train with a burner right in your backyard. Plus our listeners can get the Ramsey burner bundle for 10% off, which includes a burner pistol, CO2 cartridges and ammo. And other burner products like safety alarms, defense sprays and body armor are also 10% off. For Ramsey fans, see why Burna has more than 15,000 five star reviews. Just go to byrna.comdave to learn more. That's b y r n a dot com dave. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Today the best way to make your money behave is a behavior plan for your money. It's called a budget. Make your money behave, tell it what to do instead of wondering where it went. The world's best way to do that is called every dollar. Where you give every dollar an assignment every month and you agree on it with your spouse. And then you know why you have money or you know why you don't have money. That changes everything. So download everydollar for free in the app store or Google Play and use it. You have to have a plan. No one accidentally wins. You know it's not going to work that way. You're going to have to leave the cave, kill something and drag it home, boys and girls. And you do this with every dollar, you'll change everything. Hunter is in Panama City. Hi Hunter. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you, Mr. Ramsey. Great, great to talk with you. Really appreciate you taking my question.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, so I'm 30 years old, I'm married, got three kiddos and me and my wife right now are a little over $100,000 in debt on one and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but yeah, $100,000 in debt on what?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So we have, we bought a piece of land that's about 60, 60 to $65,000. We still owe on that. We have a car maintenance which is, we have about $25,000 left on that. And then I have student loans which is about 20,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what do you make?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I make 70 to 75,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. And you don't live on land, you just bought the land.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So we still, yeah, we're still paying on the land.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you don't, you don't live on it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, sir. No. Currently we're living with my wife's grandparents and a one bedroom barnhouse. And so we're just living there. We're literally living on about a thousand dollars a month and the rest were just stocking away towards debt and trying to get completely out of debt. Download this app called. Yeah, the app. You guys have, the Easy Money apps. Literally just trying to completely get out of debt and trying to get out of it fast.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you meant the Every Dollar app. I hope.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Every dollar, yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. If I got one called Easy Money, I'm not aware of it, but okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, every dollar.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you make 70,000 and you're living on nothing, and you have $105,000 worth of debt, including the land, Correct?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the land worth?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So it's already up in property value. We originally, whenever we bought it, we bought it for 75. It was worth a. It's now worth 85,000. And who said this vicinity.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, who said it's worth 85?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So we had a property appraiser whenever we closed on the land. 85,000.

[Stacy]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not whenever we close, but whenever we. Whenever we sign to purchase the land.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it was a priced at 85 when you bought it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, sir. And we bought it for 75.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long ago did you buy it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We bought it almost a year ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it could be worth even more now, correct?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, so your question, Your question is what, Hunter?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, so our question is, should we sell the land and then just pay off all of our debt?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. All right.

[Stacy]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right. That answer. That answers my question.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're free. The only question you're free.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thinking about eventually building. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, I think you'll have that dream come true someday. And the fact that you're living in your grandparents barndominium tells me you like a piece of dirt, which is cool. I'm with you on that. I like dirt too. Like a little room, little elbow room, so to speak. And I mean, I live in a part of Tennessee where gunfire on Saturdays, pretty normal sound by the neighbors. And so, you know, I like a little room and the, you know, you're. You're kind of got that in your blood. I can hear it. Not the gunfire, but the elbow room. The. Anyway, the. And you're. You're in your early 20s, maybe just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I just turned 30 this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. What do you do for a living?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I do wedding and elopement photography.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, sir. Started that about four years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't imagine how interesting elopement photography is, but that's a whole nother subject. Okay. All right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Pretty great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Stacy]

Please tell me you keep a little journal somewhere. Just a tally mark that says not gonna make it, are gonna make it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. All right. I like that. You are willing to sacrifice to get where you're going and you're willing to make hard decisions to get where you're going. Those two things tell me you're going to get where you're going. So I'm not worried about you getting to live your dream. I think you're going to get there. All I'm thinking about is what's the shortest distance between two points between where you are and owning something. So probably if I'm you, I'm saving like crazy. I'm going to get us a little starter house. I'm going to make a bunch of money on it over the next four or five years, and I'm going to buy a piece of grand and build on it as my phase two in this process rather than phase sub one, which you started with the ground way before you were even out of debt on the other things. So I. And the good news is the ground will get you out of debt for now. And you got zero payments. You can pile cash. You could be able to stack cash all in that barn, man. Just stack it in there and then go get you a nice starter house and let that thing go up in value like the land did and then sell it and build on a piece of ground someday, maybe out there, five or 10 years. That would be where I am. And that's also about the time you're probably going to be a millionaire. Yeah.

[Stacy]

And there's something about putting a sitting down with your wife. And y'all put. It's arbitrary. Let's say two years. Let's put a deadline. We're going to be out of this barn in two years. Here's how much money we want to have. What must be true. How do we get that much money? Am I going to have to shoot on Sundays and Saturday nights and Wednesday mornings? And I'm. I'm going to take as many of these gigs I can get. I'm going to stop saying no to things. What would what she doing? What must be true for us to have this dollar amount, to walk out of here and get that small starter home in 24 months, 32 months. And sometimes when you put a deadline on it, it doesn't feel like it's forever. And you can just work yourself silly knowing there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I got a pattern this hour. I got to stop for a second. Young ladies, you need to be very clear with your fiance's or your husbands. You need to say what you are really thinking and not go along with, I live in the barn loft or the camper because there are some young ladies that will go along with that because they agree with the goal and they're all in. And that's fine. I'm not talking to you. But you young ladies who, these knuckleheads that you are married to are marrying, have talked you into living in a barn loft or in a camper because they think that that's the way you need to domesticate this wild mulephant that you have married and let them know that ladies generally don't like living under bridges. This is a bunch of crap. And so it took me a little while to realize this because. And I can. And you knuckleheads, I'm one of you. I'm only more advanced.

[Stacy]

Me too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I don't care where I live. I'm. I'm the guy that could live in the barn loft or the camper or under the bridge for that matter. It does not bother me. I mean, it doesn't really. But happy wife, happy life is one of the equations. And so you guys are, you are thinking that you're doing something very positive for the future of your family. Meanwhile, you are leaving some marks on that relationship that. Because you're stupid. And, and I know this because I'm you. Okay? And so again, there are some times that I have talked to couples that both of them are all in. And we bought a $2,000 used mobile home and we lived in it for three years and saved up and paid cash for a home. And both of them were all in.

[Stacy]

But they had an end goal.

[Dave Ramsey]

They had an end goal, number one. And number two, they were both all in. One of them wasn't going along with it because they think that they married Sir Galahad and they didn't. They married Goober. And so, you know, this is my wife, bless her heart. So I'm just warning some of you ladies you need to speak up. And you knuckleheads, quit moving your lady that hasn't spoken up into these ridiculous situations to accomplish your dream. This is the Ramsey Show. You know, I love when I get to talk about this. Each year during the holidays, as in years past, this December, Zander is donating 25% of all ID theft protection sales to Team Rubicon, an amazing veteran led disaster relief organization that brings assistance across the country after major disasters and storms. These guys do incredible work on the ground helping those in immediate need and have a huge impact in helping people get on the road to recovery. Zander has contributed over a half a million dollars to worthy causes like this every December. Listen, ID theft is a reality and being protected has just become a necessity, even for our kids. Their plan bundles together all the protections you need while being the best value out there. It's the only plan I've ever recommended and you can give it as a gift. Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. There's no better way to protect yourself, your family, while helping others in serious need. That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. If you don't know, you can join the Ramsey show and get all three of the segments, all three of the hours, if you will, of the show on the Ramsey Network app. You can also search on the Ramsey Network app by subject and get all the different calls on a certain subject. Keep you from listening to 26 Hours to find out about your car lease or whatever it is. Right. And you can send us an email on the Ramsey Network app, which is what happened today. John.

[Stacy]

All right, today's Ramsey Network app. It's from Hope. And personally, this hits too close to home, so I don't appreciate it, Hope, but here we go. My husband and I are in baby step two and have $12,000 more to go. We're so close. He's been fully on board with the baby steps until recently. He's an avid hunter and wants to go hunting this season. If he kills a deer, it costs around 200 bucks to butcher it and between 2 and $1,000 to mount it. I told him we need to decide together about hunting during baby step two and that I don't support him spending $1,000 right now. I reminded him that by next season we'd have a lot more money and freedom to spend more freely. He says I've sucked the fun out of hunting by asking these questions. He probably had to set down his pacifier to say that. He says hunting is his hobby and the only thing that makes him happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's a little insulting.

[Stacy]

Gosh, that's so dramatic. I have no problem with him hunting. I just want to plan financially before he goes. Am I wrong?

[Dave Ramsey]

Is his little face red? Was his little lip stuck out? Yeah, like I sound like a kid on the cereal in his bib. Yeah, honey. Makes me happy.

[Stacy]

The only thing that makes me happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so yeah, you're killing.

[Stacy]

There's two problems. You're married to a toddler. That's number one. Number two, Hope, what you have done is you have created. You've exaggerated this. I hunt all the time. I've never had somebody charge me even half of 200 to butcher a deer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really? No.

[Stacy]

It's about.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the cost of processing?

[Stacy]

55 to 75 bucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Stacy]

That's what it costs. And you can do it yourself. You can do it at home for $0. And so. And then, good God, no, you don't come.

[Dave Ramsey]

A lot of Ziploc bags.

[Stacy]

A lot of Ziploc bag. That's true. Nine dollars, right? Nine bucks plus. No, this isn't the season to be mounting deer. And again, 200 to a thousand. If you're taking it to some fancy taxidermist, maybe. Again, this is one. Like, it's gonna cost a thousand. It's not. It's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, well, man, he may be. Or she may be. I don't know who's. Somebody's exaggerating.

[Stacy]

Well, I think she's exaggerating a bit because she don't want him doing this. And he is being exaggerating with his feelings on the other side. There's more things in his life to bring him joy than hunting. And also, it's hunting season and him going on Saturday and shooting a deer to feed the family and to have some fun and get out in the. Is fine. But also, if you're going to add $1,200 as a part of this, that's insane, right? $1,000 plus 200 bucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

The melodrama around this whole thing is just out of control.

[Stacy]

So it's getting all the way beneath.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know who's melodramatic, whether it's one of your.

[Stacy]

Both, I think both. I think both. And so no having a plan financially before he goes. Is that wrong? No.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, what's 30 out 6 cost around now?

[Stacy]

Around a dollar and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dollar and a half. Okay.

[Stacy]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what it should cost him to kill a deer.

[Stacy]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Assuming he can get it in one shot or two.

[Stacy]

Right. So $5 in ammunition. Right. And. But hey, it can add up. Gas and yada, yada. I do think you're right. Having a plan financially is important. It's good. And let's take hunting off the table because this seems to be a third real topic in your house. Let's say it's any number of things that you like to do. Baby step two is survival. It's about running and gunning. And you put a pause on expensive things. You put a pause on going out. You put a pause on some of these things. And so I can imagine Hope hasn't gone out to eat, hadn't been on a date, hadn't got her hair or nails done in a year, and husband wants to go spend a thousand dollars deer hunting. I get that. I get that. But I think beneath it, we have to say yes, we're gonna have a financial plan before we do anything. Anything. Especially in baby step two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but the other thing is this. Whatever it is you're trying to fit into your budget when you're working in baby step two, you look at it through a different lens than you do when you're rich someday.

[Stacy]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you're rich someday, you know, you might pay some money to go do a hunt in a certain way. You might pay someone to process the deer. You might pay someone to have it. But hunting is different than having it mounted. Hunting is different than processing.

[Stacy]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

There are three different activities here.

[Stacy]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we can break this apart and say one possibility is hunting makes me happy.

[Stacy]

It's the only thing that makes me happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

So go hunting, kill a deer, take it out in the backyard, butcher it, and your family will actually save money on groceries as a result.

[Stacy]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's a net gain, but no processing fee and no mounting.

[Stacy]

Get our friend, the Butcher Brothers on YouTube.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mounting makes me happy. No, that doesn't cost a thousand bull on that one. Right.

[Stacy]

That's a thousand dollar piece of decoration on your wall.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That collects dust. And pretty soon you'll be tired of Bambi's daddy. So. But yeah, really, seriously, we. We mounted a shark one time we caught. And that thing, we couldn't get rid of it.

[Stacy]

No, you can never get rid of.

[Dave Ramsey]

It from house to house. And finally, it's in somebody's attic now.

[Stacy]

But you know what? As soon as that person dies, it's gonna end up in someone else's attic.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's probably gonna end up in the dumpster before it's. I mean, it's like it served it. It was way past its joy. But fishing makes me happy. No, it doesn't. Okay, so there you go. Yeah. So I think the trick here is find ways to do things you love and that are a net gain. This guy could actually go hunting. And it saves on the grocery bill. Net net is zero cost and even a positive to the family.

[Stacy]

That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. Because a deer tenderloin is phenomenal.

[Stacy]

I had one for lunch today.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go.

[Stacy]

And so I. I'M saying this like someone who hunts a lot. I, I, I think there's some, there's just some straw man going on here. There's some false realities here crap going on in this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. For real. So, yeah, you. He needs to say, I'm all in for our goals. And so I'm going to decrease the grocery budget because I'm going to do the butchering this year myself. I'm going to not mount anything I kill this year myself. And if hunting makes you happy, you'll shoot another one you can mount later.

[Stacy]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's.

[Stacy]

We're just going to shoot does this year. We're not going to mount anything. We're just shooting for food this year, and I'm gonna get out and get some fresh air. I mean, we're gonna go on from.

[Dave Ramsey]

The bow hunt and cost you anything that shouldn't get the arrow back.

[Stacy]

I mean, those are pretty expensive, man. They're way more expensive than bullets.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's true. You got to get it back. It's, this is. Yeah.

[Stacy]

So, yeah, the Davis feels like he's.

[Dave Ramsey]

A toddler if he's saying, if he's really saying this, he's acting like a toddler if he's really saying this.

[Stacy]

But it sounds like Hope has given up a lot this year and she wants him to give up his thing. And when you start to score, that's the death of a relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not necessary. It's not necessary. It's, you know, how can we do all. How can we do as many of the things that we both want to do? And it doesn't have a net. Net loss to our budget that's substantial. That keeps us from accomplishing our big goals, which is financial freedom. So we can. If you hunt like no one else later, you can hunt like no one else.

[Stacy]

Oh, I like that. So, but here's another example. We tell people, don't go to restaurants, don't go out on dates. You can't afford it. You're in baby step two. But you can go for a walk together and hold hands in the neighborhood. You can put the kids to bed and light some candles and talk to each other and make a date around your house. You're just going to have to do it differently because you don't have any money, you're broke. And I think that's the same thing here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly.

[Stacy]

We're going to find some ways to do it. But, man, everybody in this house needs to grow, grow up a little bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right? Open phones this hour. Triple 882-55-5225.

[Stacy]

I'm not crazy. Right. That's another thing to say.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, it's the difference in the kid playing rec league and the kid doing $8,000 a year in travel sports.

[Stacy]

Yeah. Is the goal to play baseball and be a good teammate and have fun or is it to make yourself feel better at the expense of your 12 year old?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, but. Or, I mean, the family's broke, but the kid's got an $8,000 travel schedule and he's never going to play ball right past high school. But by God, you know what, What? I mean, really, we established pretty quick Daniel Ramsey, good hockey player, but we established pretty quick he wasn't going to be in the NHL. And so based on that, we decide how much we're going to invest in this process. You know, I mean, it's like, you know, and, and you can get your collarbone break broken playing high school hockey. You don't have to do this. You don't have to do it on the road somewhere.

[Stacy]

Hey, James, we're talking about hunting and travel sports. Anything else you want us to talk about to get us canceled? I was going to put this question.

[Dave Ramsey]

On with George and Rachel, but I think it worked a little better with the guest. Yeah, George. George dealing with deer hunting, that would be good. He would be the guy that spends that kind of money on it, too.

[Stacy]

George gets scared at the deli section at Whole Foods. I can't see him out in the woods.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it gluten free? That's all he wants to know.

[Stacy]

Excuse me, Mr. Dear, please don't eat those acorns. That's gluten. Glutens in them.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not fair. George isn't here to defend himself. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks, and you probably already know which ones I mean, but I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds credit union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000,000. It's easy to join. And Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. And while you're there, look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's Fairwinds. F A I R W I n d s.org Ramsey live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Solutions show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ph.D. in counseling, number one best selling author and host of the very popular Ramsey network show, the Dr. John DeLoney Show. He's my co host today. Open phones at Triple 8-825-5225. Leonardo is in Chicago. Hi Leonardo, how are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I am good, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, Dave, to put it just straightforward, I kind of got lucky in the stock market. I'm up 180,000. But now I'm in a midlife crisis. I don't know what to do with my life. Should I put that money, go to school or maybe should I get a property? I'm 24 years old. I think the properties in Chicago are not too expensive compared to other cities. But I would love your input.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, okay. Okay. So you hit the lotto and you got 180 grand and you're, you're 24 years old. What are you gonna do with your life? What are you gonna do with your life? What do you want to be when you grow up? I mean when you're, when you're 54, what do you look back and go? I like the 24 year old Leonardo because he made a wise decision. At 24. What does that 54 year old doing at that point?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think I can be a. And it's because my father's an electrician. So if I can follow through his steps, I can also get help from him. And I think that's a noble career. Maybe not the best paying, but I think that's a pretty good career to have.

[Stacy]

Our friend Ken Coleman just read a report recently about the explosion of millionaires who are plumbers and electricians who are creating.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is a noble career, but it feels like you fell backward into that to me, like your dad's doing it. That's how you figured it out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, maybe you're right. I, it's just Like, I've always been into business. Like, I've always really liked it. I've always liked to find ways to make money lucratively. But I want stability. If I'm being honest, I, I'm tired of feeling stressed.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you make 200,000 a year in your business, you'll be stable.

[Stacy]

Yeah, but you have to know when to walk away from the table.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I'm saying don't confuse boring with stable. Yeah, stable is predictable is all stable is. And if you know how, if you are better at business than you are at being an electrician, then running a business of some kind is different than speculating and gambling on stocks. So you could, you could, you could be in the business world. Maybe that's what you want to learn how to do. You want to start and operate a business of some kind. You may have something already in mind you'd like to do. Do you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I actually not really. If I'm being honest. I kind of really like real estate, which is why I want to like buy a property living like maybe the basement and then like rent out the first floor. And then I could basically live for the same price I'm living currently, which is I've always lived below my means. I clearly my rent is $600 and I'm very grateful for the people that are letting me rent here.

[Stacy]

Hold on. Leonardo. Leonardo. Leonardo, you're mimicking something you saw on Instagram. What do you want to do? You don't want to live in the basement while somebody lives above you. Yeah, what do you want to do?

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the 54 year old Leonardo doing that is glad that he did this? It's fulfilling. It's a predictable thing. He's used his skills and his passions to build a wonderful life for himself. What's he doing? That's what you need to do. So I don't know what that is. I don't know if you do today. So I can't tell you what to do based on this call. What I can tell you is you need to go through Ken Coleman's assessment and finding the work, you find the work you're wired to do. I'll send you the copy of the book and the assessment. I want you to take that and then begin to do some analysis. You might even call and talk to Ken on his show or jump on his website and interface with him on email. However you want to do it, I don't care. But I think we've got to figure out, don't make the mistake of picking a Career because you think it makes money. Don't make the mistake of picking a career because your dad did. Don't make the mistake of picking a career or a track because it's quote, unquote, stable. Because when people say something like that, what that means to me is they don't think running their own small business is stable. And I can promise you that there are more millionaires running small businesses than any other category.

[Stacy]

And don't watch social media and try to quote, unquote, hack your way to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wealth because what you're going to do, that's exactly it.

[Stacy]

You're going to give somebody ten grand for their ten step course to how to hack their wealth and all you're going to do is make them rich.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly. There's not a, it's not a hack. Quit looking for a way to make money. Look for a way to find something that adds value, help somebody. Yeah, to the world. And that gives you a sense of passion, sense of peace. I'm going to send you a copy of this assessment in this book on how to read the assessment. I want you to go through it in detail. I want you to take some time in prayer over it and unpack it. If you want to call us back, you can call us back at that point. But call back one day when Ken's on here and go over the results with him. It would be good because the results are self explanatory, by the way. But aside from that, that's what you're looking for. You're looking for something where your passions intersect, your talents, not just what someone else did because it made money.

[Stacy]

Well, I think there's a, there's a. The matrix is your passions and your talents the overlay. What does the world need?

[Dave Ramsey]

Right?

[Stacy]

It's old Frederick Buettner quote, like what does the world desperately need that you can provide. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That only you can provide.

[Stacy]

Right. And man, go make that happen. And the money will. The money will follow you, man. The money will follow you. Dave, he said something and he said it in his own unique way, but it's the old, it's an old psychological trope. Wherever you end up, you go with you. He won on stocks, young kid, won $180,000. He bet right. He threw darts backwards, which is what day traders do. And he won. And he thought that was going to solve everything. He made more in one, in one cash out than his dad did in a year. And he still was anxious. And he said, I just want peace. I'm tired of stressed out all the time. And he realized, oh, I went with me. And so I don't want this life, I don't want this rattling around all the time and searching for peace. Is always that alignment of where are you providing value and where are you working really hard and where are you getting better and better and better at a thing that you're good at? And man, you just got to keep doing it. It's not a hack to that. You got to just keep showing up and showing up and showing up and showing up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And that's not running to your dad's career. No. And it's not running to a career that someone outlined is a good way to make money. That's right. It's finding how you're wired and put together. Okay. So we know that the high stress, uber high risk environment of day trading, which is ludicrous, is not for you. It's not for anybody. But we also know it's not for you. You said that. But you also said, I like business.

[Stacy]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now what's that mean? You need to unpack that because that's very valuable phrase right there. I've always been in business for myself, except for one three month period of time, you know.

[Stacy]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. Or I've been straight commission, one of the two.

[Stacy]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that I. When I made money, when I caused something to happen, I made money. I've always been able to make the connection between those two. So I agree with you. I like business. But that can open up a lot of doors to you and do a lot of different things you're passionate about, and you add value to your people in your life. This is the Ramsey Show. Remember the good old days of the Internet? Before, it was a privacy nightmare filled with spammers, scammers, hackers, and fraudsters. Simpler times. Now, I don't have a time machine, but I do have the next best thing. Delete me. Think of Deleteme as your online bodyguard, helping to protect you from the risks of online scams and data breaches. Here's how they do it. They scour the web to find and remove your data from these sketchy data broker websites. And this includes your name, your phone number, your email, your address, and more. And Deleteme will send you a detailed report of what they did and how much time they've saved you. And They've saved me 66 hours so far, which is more time I can spend trying to nail the Wordle of the day on the first try.

[Stacy]

Deleteme has been around for over a.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Stacy]

Plans start at just nine bucks a.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Tool that helps you find out if you have all of your bases covered. To check it out, go to ramseysolutions.com checkup. That's ramseysolutions.com checkup guys, student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse. But our question of the day sponsor why refi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate and you couldn't get anywhere else. So go to y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Stacy]

All right, today's question comes from Abigail in West Virginia. Abigail writes, my in laws are too much to deal with. Specifically my mother in law, Abigail. She knows you wrote this? She I don't know how mother in laws know. They just know she has to stick her nose into everything. She has a key to our house, which was bought by my husband before we got married. She's folded our laundry, cleaned our house and moved stuff while we were not at home. Oh man. I've asked my husband to talk to her, but he told me he couldn't do it and told me to chill out.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have a mother in law problem. You have a husband.

[Stacy]

You have a husband problem. God almighty. That makes me so uncomfortable to think my mom would come over to our house. My mom's amazing. But my mom would come over and go through unsolicited. Go through our stuff without your permission. And even more uncomfortable is my wife said, I need this to not happen again. And I said, I can't do it. I can't do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm scared of my mommy.

[Stacy]

Oh, my gosh, Abigail, you have a husband problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

He needs to run down to Walmart on aisle three and pick up a backbone.

[Stacy]

Yeah. And some Pampers while he's there because he might tt in his pants while he talks to mommy. Y'all need to have this con. I mean, this is awful. Yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is awful.

[Stacy]

Mother in law is gonna do what? Here's the deal. I think if and maybe she's controlling, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think mother in law is trying to love her little baby the best she knows how.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's trying to be helpful and she's screwed up.

[Stacy]

Yes. And she doesn't think you're loving him the same, the right way. But she's not going to say anything. She's just going to keep doing it. And I think your cute little hubby is a gigantic 14 year old and he needs to grow up real, real quick.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So if you say a thing, you start a 10 year feud. You can't say a thing. The only thing you can do is encourage your husband to have a backbone. And this is out of line. The boundaries are. There's no boundaries here. This is ridiculous and it needs to stop. Yesterday, tell him you want the locks changed and you want him to call his mother and tell her to not come in your home without clearing it with both of you first, that you're a married couple and this is weird and she shouldn't be doing this. Mom, we love you. Thank you for the help. You can't do this anymore. I've changed the locks. Your key's not good anymore and you don't need to come in our home anymore. It's a real short, calm conversation and he needs to man up and do that. If he cannot do that, you do not have a mother in law problem. You have a husband problem. And you'll need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

[Stacy]

Correct. And by the way, to husband listening to this, you don't call your mom and say, my wife, my wife doesn't want you coming in the house. No, you goober. You be a grown up and you say, I, I messed up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Leave and cleave. That's right, leave your mother and father.

[Stacy]

We need to figure out how to do these things on our own. To your spouse, dude, and mother in laws. Don't break into your kids homes and do their laundry for them unless, unless there's like a medical crisis or a newborn and they've asked you for your help.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't do that. Even if there's a newborn and they ask for your help, you still ask permission?

[Stacy]

Yes, of course. But I mean, that's if you've been.

[Dave Ramsey]

Invited with a key that you had before they were married. So one of the best practical jokes we ever played was a key. Have you heard this one?

[Stacy]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

I had a personal assistant 25 years ago, beautiful Christian lady, and she got engaged. So for her engagement party, all the guys, we took her to an ice hockey game in Nashville. And the, the announcer at the hockey game was a friend of mine. And so one of the guys in the office that was with us, there was about 10 guys, went all throughout the whole section and handed every guy a key. Went to the hardware store and got keys. And the announcer said, cherie is getting married next week. Anyone that has a key to her apartment needs to bring it to her. And like 500 guys got up and started bringing keys to her. So it was such a wonderful practical joke. But yeah, that's, that's much better than this one.

[Stacy]

This just makes me sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, this is bad. Yeah, so.

[Stacy]

And can I tell you this one thing? So one time a friend of mine, they were having some family stuff and it was a, a couple friend of me and my wife's, and we've known them forever and ever and ever. And they were going through some like, just somebody passed away or something. And I said, hey, let's get them a house cleaner just to come in and clean up. And my wife looked at me and said, are you crazy? So what do you mean? She said, you know what that would feel like to me if somebody came over to see us and then they hired someone to come clean my house?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it'd be like an insult.

[Stacy]

It would be insult. And so I gotta say, mom, coming over to clean the house and do the laundry is a little bit of a flex. Oh, right. It's a little bit of a flex.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so it's like cooking the lasagna. It's like the recipe you got for lasagna.

[Stacy]

You're not taking care of my little, my little boy the way he deserves to be taken care of. I'll come over and help. It kind of feels like Ray Romano's mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like it's like your underwear was folded wrong.

[Stacy]

That's. Yeah, I'm sorry, honey. I'll do it for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so, yeah, husband, grow up, mother in law, flex.

[Stacy]

This whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable, Dave. I never feel uncomfortable. This one does.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is like. It's got. It's got a little stalker esque.

[Stacy]

It does.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's got a key and she sneaks in like Keebler's elves or something. And cooks and does the laundry.

[Stacy]

No, because this kind of mother in law leaves a note that says, hey, I noticed things were messy, so I cleaned up and I vacuumed. You'll have a great night. And it's just like a little flex. But if you say anything, it's like, oh, I was just trying to help. I'm so sorry. I won't help anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, right. Martyr out. She'll definitely Marty her the old.

[Stacy]

Oh, okay. There's some old Dairy Queen napkins in the glove box. I'll just eat those. Y'all just go eat wherever you want to. I'll just eat the old Kleenexes and I'll just sit in the car and be cold. And when y'all get done, y'all just come out.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's that, hey, I did run into a guy the other day that's opening a new food truck called wherever you want to go.

[Stacy]

That's the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everybody asks where they want to eat. Wherever you want to go. Okay, we're heading.

[Stacy]

We'll go back there. A great little honky tonk in Lubbock, Texas, called the library. We'd be like, where you going? Going library.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. I love it. All right, boys and girls, boundaries are necessary. And I will admit that the hardest stage of parenting for me has been parenting children who are no longer in my control. It is the hardest stage to stay out of other people's business that are grown ups, even if they are from my flesh and blood. And so that does not matter. And I don't have any major issues. It's not like any of them are doing anything extremely stupid or something, but still, just not telling grown up people what they have to do. With your dad voice, it. It requires a little bit of discipline. Yeah.

[Stacy]

Even today, my son is studying for his first round of high school finals. He's a freshman and I. I know the science of studying. I know the pedagogy of studying. I have been a high school and a college teacher for my whole career. And he's got to go through this first round of finals studying the way his he rolls his eyes, says, dad, I know. Okay. And Right. And it's hard because I want to go in there and say, this is the way he's got to learn this time. And then next time we'll be able to speak from a place of.

[Dave Ramsey]

I need some help.

[Stacy]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Show me how to do this right.

[Stacy]

And it's hard. It's hard when you're. When the. Your precious little Johnny's underwear isn't folded right? Mother in law. It's Abigail's husband now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Abigail, back up. Back up again.

[Stacy]

Be cool. Be cool, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

She has to stick her nose into everything.

[Stacy]

It's the move stuff while we weren't home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, that one's weird. Yeah, the came back, the furniture's rearranged.

[Stacy]

It's kind of like misery.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I was like. It's got a stalker esque thing to it.

[Stacy]

The Penguin always faces north.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the Ramsay show.

[Stacy]

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[Dave Ramsey]

The Ramsey Christmas cash giveaway is here and you could win big. We're giving away $500 prizes each week and one grand prize of $5,000. Enter daily for your chance to win at Ramsey Solutions.com giveaway. It's that easy. Plus, our 50 Days of Christmas deals is on right now. Get up to 30% off bestsellers and life changing gifts that won't break the holiday budget. Ramsey Solutions.com store. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality is my co host today. Allison is in Mesa, Arizona. Hi, Alison. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, thank you very much. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, so I have a question about long term health care insurance or possibly buying an annuity to take care of those issues later in life. And I know you're the person to help me out with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Long term care and annuity for later in life. Help, help me, give me, give me a little. I don't understand why we're, why we're worried about this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, so here's why. So I am 57. My husband is 55. He was just diagnosed with a very aggressive stage 4 cancer, but otherwise has always been very healthy.

[Stacy]

Oh, man, I'm so sorry.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, thank you. It's been quite, quite a deal. He diagnosed about four months ago. Fortunately, we own our home. We have 950,000 in retirement. But I just keep wondering what am I supposed to do about purchasing a policy for later in life when we're old and need to maybe be in a long term care facility or a nursing home? And you know, I've read some and it's just, it's all a little confusing to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, let's just talk nursing home insurance for a minute, okay? Or long term care or long term care insurance. The industry has changed dramatically since that category began 25 years ago. Today, about all you can buy is three years of coverage. Okay, you can buy three years of nursing home care coverage. It'll cost you about 1,000 bucks a month, give or take if you're in your 60s and you have reasonable health. Okay, I'm just talking about in general terms here. All right? And in general terms, the average nursing home stay in America is 2.8 years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because generally when someone goes to a nursing home, you know, they're not alive for very long after that. That's just a general statistical thing. It's not a, doesn't mean nursing homes kill people. That's not what I'm saying. But the, but I mean, you know, we're sick, we're in the later stages. It's not hospice. But it is also elderly. It's A lot of different things. Okay. So 2.8 years. So your exposure, if you said $100,000 a year for three years is 300 grand. On average. On average. And you have 900 today.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so let's fast forward to 71 years old. Your husband recovers from stage four and you guys are now looking at one of us might need care.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then we would obviously would have been talking about long term care insurance. I generally don't recommend it until you're 60 years old. He's not insurable right now, so it doesn't matter. He's going to have to get.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm trying to get that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he's going to have to get the other side of the cancer diagnosis for a while healed before he's going to be insurable. But having said that, I think you're probably self insured and here's why not, because you can't get it. But let's say he's the other side of a cancer diagnosis far enough that you could actually get it. And let's pretend that. Are you working outside the home right now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We both are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. He's not for long. He's going to be in treatment, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, he's. No, he. We're both university faculty and he is working from home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. He's able to do that with his chemo treatment or whatever he's doing. Okay. Okay, good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you make?

[Dr. John Deloney]

My base salary is 63. His is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you all live on that? Your salary?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Oh, can we?

[Dave Ramsey]

Or do we, can you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I need to figure that out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If you did, if you did, here's what we've got. You said you've got almost a million dollars in your 401k, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Correct. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If it's invested in good mutual funds and if it averages 10% or more without adding to it, it will double every seven years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you're 57, he's 55 at 64 for you you'd have 2 million. At 71 for you you would have 4 million. So you'll have between 2 and 4 million dollars before you need to pay for a nursing home. And you can afford to write a check for the 300 without having bought any insurance. That's why I'm thinking you're self insured.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So it sounds like what you're saying is I don't need. Well, you're saying I don't need to worry about it right now, which is a relief.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't, you can't worry about it right now because he can't buy it right now. You could buy it, but you don't need to worry about it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I don't need it right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

See how I got there?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Kind of. I'm just really nervous listening to you talk because I listen to you almost every day. And now I'm actually talking to you. My brain is just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I've learned a lot about shark heads in the attic.

[Stacy]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

So sorry.

[Stacy]

Allison, let me ask you this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Stacy]

How much of this spinning out this. Okay, what about this? I got a plan for this. I got a plan for this is just the utter loss of control you feel when somebody says the word cancer with somebody you love.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I'm sure that's part of it.

[Stacy]

Because here's what it sounds like to me. Dave and I take calls all the time. You guys, for being in your mid to back half of your 50s, are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really in good shape.

[Stacy]

You're in amazing shape financially. And my mom is still a professor in her 70s. You can do your job for ages. AI may take it. Right. But like, let's just pretend you keep doing that. You're an amazing position.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so I don't. Okay.

[Stacy]

The challenge for you is to exhale and be present with your husband, which is going to be hard and scary.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

[Stacy]

Y'all are good, man. You're good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I just wanted to be thinking, like five years in advance for him. What do I need to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's do day by day, five years from. Let's go seven years from today. You have $2 million in a paid for house. You may not want to buy long term care insurance. You may want to just say, I'll pay for it if I need to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's where I get confused. Like, how would I even access that? Because it's like all in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you'll just call your investor, you'll call your investment advisor and say, I need $100,000 a year for home. For nursing home. For my husband. And they'll pull it out of the investments, and instead of 2 million, you'll have 1 million 7 left. If he stays in a nursing home an average period of time.

[Stacy]

Allison, have they put him on a clock?

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know, that's an interesting question. So it's a. Just to protect his privacy. I'm not going to say what kind of cancer it is, but the. I mean, he's been incredibly healthy. And so this again, just came out of nowhere. But in terms of a clock, the five year survival rate up until last year was 8%. A clinical trial. He's now doing what? The clinical trial, you know, has now been accepted or approved by the FDA. So there is no five year.

[Stacy]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

@ this point there isn't. But what we do know is that with the treatment that they're doing for him, we're looking at maybe a 20% chance of eradication of the cancer. And we're doing everything that we can to get him in there. He's never smoked, he's never drank. You know, he's always been active and so. But it's the getting there that's really hard.

[Stacy]

That is. Yeah. So let's, let's stay as optimistic as possible and let's stay in deeply in prayer and let's, let's try these, these clinical trials. Amazing. And yeah, let's remember that every second is golden when it comes to how precious it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Stacy]

And let's let tomorrow's. You guys are in such great shape. Let's let tomorrow's worries be tomorrow's. Right now we're going to just celebrate and be in enjoy with every precious second.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you don't tear into your nest egg, you're going to be self insured for long term care needs when you're in your mid-60s. That's the answer to your question. You're fine. Well done. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruze. And guess what? It's my favorite time of year. The lights, the music, the decorations. I mean, I love it all. And as a natural spender like myself, it's really easy to overspend. And I want to do all the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Things and give my family the kind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of holidays they'll always remember. And at the same time, I don't want to look back at my bank account in January and think, oh, what did I do? So that's why I use the EveryDollar budgeting app. It helps me plan for all of my spending. And that's what a budget is.

[Stacy]

Then once I have my plan in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Place, I don't have to worry about overspending. I am free to spend guilt free and have fun doing it. Plus, with EveryDollar, you can customize your budget however you want. So whether it's buying gifts, hosting dinners, or even turning your living room into a winter wonderland, everydollar helps you plan for it all. So you guys go out and create some great holiday memories with your family without the stress of overspending. Download the EveryDollar app for free today. Go download it today, Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host. He's also so my compadre on this money and relationships tour we're doing in the spring. We are doing something we've never done. I've done live events for 30 years where I come out on stage and yak at you and tell you what to do with your money and that kind of stuff. And we're going to do that, but we're going to do it in a different way. We're going to let you select the topics you want John and I to talk about while you're sitting in the audience. Before we come out, we're going to send them out there to your phone and then we're going to design the show that night custom for each one of the cities. I think this is going to be cool, John.

[Stacy]

Every city is going to be different. And I tell you what I tell people all the time. I don't. I don't get nervous anymore. I get excited, but I don't get nervous anymore. I'm pretty nervous about this one. This one's gonna be fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

It'll be like sitting here answering questions. We don't know what questions are coming in here. So, yeah, it's like there's a different energy. Make it up as we go.

[Stacy]

Several thousand people in a fancy theater. It's gonna be fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there's several million listening here, but yeah, that's. There's that. Yeah. Hey, guys. Gotta love it. It's gonna be fun. The Money and Relationships tour, the first one's April 21st in Louisville. It's John and me, so be sure you join us. Durham is in April 23, Atlanta, April 25, Phoenix, May 5, Fort Worth, May 7, and Kansas City, May 9. These are all about 50% or so sold out, so you can probably still get your tickets without any trouble. But they will probably after the first of the year, is how these things usually work in our world. They usually take off and it'll probably blow out like sometime in January and you won't be able to get a ticket. So jump in there. And the seats are all signed seats, so you get to select where you're going to sit with Ticketmaster and all that junk, which isn't something we've never done before either. So this is kind of fun. So you, if you want to the good seat before they get down to the last few, you know, you go ahead and get it now, right?

[Stacy]

That's right. It's not going to be a general admission. Just walk in wherever it's it's like it's going to a theater.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. We actually have assigned. You know, just like these days if you go to a movie theater, that's what you do. Right. So Ramsey solutions.com tour or you can go. If you're on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the show notes. Andrew is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi. How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So my wife and I have about a hundred thousand dollars in debt. Not including our mortgage. We make about 80,000 a year. So we, I say we have made bad decisions, but it's really. I put it on me. But we've got ourselves in some pretty bad debt. So I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get out of it with the money we make. What seems like in my head we don't make enough.

[Stacy]

What's the debt?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Credit cards, personal loan and student. Student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much car debt?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No car debt. We own our cars outright, but we have a personal loan for 35,000 that I used to reconsolidate and then I sold the vehicle that I had to purchase that basically.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what is your car worth?

[Dr. John Deloney]

The car. So I have a Ford Expedition that's probably worth 11,000 at the moment. And then we just have a smaller vehicle that's not really worth anything. It's got 200 plus thousand miles on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's your two cars. You don't have any other cars?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And your household income again is what?

[Dr. John Deloney]

80,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How long y'all been married?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's been three years now. We've been together for probably, I think like seven.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So if you cut up the credit cards and take extra jobs and don't go out to eat and don't go on vacation and live on a scorched earth budget, no life. How fast you think you can pay this off making 80? You need to pay off a hundred.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I work on the weekends doing side jobs. It's not fully consistent, but it's probably at least twice a month that ranges anywhere from 500 to a thousand. And I, you know, I try to use that. I just started listening to you guys like the past two weeks because really we've been arguing a lot about money, trying to be on the same page, you know, and just finally I started listening guys, and I was like, hey, we're done with this debt stuff. We need to get our life together because we have two kids and I just, I don't Want them to have a bad future. So I want to get ourselves set so we can give them a good future, you know, and set them up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let's pretend that you make 80 and you lived on 50 and you put 30 on debt. You'd be done in three years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's pretend you raise that to 100 and you put 50 on debt. You'd be done in two years. But you're both working extra jobs and you have absolutely no life. And it's not an occasional thing. You work all the time for two years and you're done.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how this, that's how the math shakes.

[Stacy]

24 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Stacy]

How long have you been unable to breathe, dude?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Probably been about a year now.

[Stacy]

Okay, so go. Give me two. And you're done. You're at zero.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're free forever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You cut up your cards and you never borrow money again.

[Stacy]

But that means you can't hem. Haul around every couple of weeks. Like maybe I have some work this week.

[Dave Ramsey]

That means all the time you're working.

[Stacy]

I have a job at Costco and I go straight from there on Saturdays to throw boxes at Walmart until 11:00 at night. And then I get home and I get up at 6am on Sunday, I go to church, I go do it again. And then I do my regular job Monday through Friday.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she and you are locked arms and you're couponing, the kids are wearing consignment. Yes. Experienced clothing. You don't have a life. You don't get to do anything. But you get your life back two years from today. Forever. That's living like no one else. So later you can live and give like no one else. You're going to pay a price to get out of this. The deeper you cut into your life, the faster you get out. Does that make sense?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yeah, it does.

[Dave Ramsey]

You think she's going to be on board with that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I absolutely think she will be on board because we've talked about it now for the, you know, past couple months and we're both just tired of being stressed and arguing all the time about it. And we just, we want to make a change and it's. I think it's just hard for us because it's hard for us to see and picture it because we're so far behind. It seems like there's just, it seems like we can't figure out where to start.

[Dave Ramsey]

Take a hundred. A hundred thousand in debt, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Put 50 on it a year and you're done in two years. Agreed?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. In order to do that making 80, you need to raise your part time income by 20. That gets you to 100. And then you're living on 50 and you're putting 50 on there. That's 4,000 plus dollars a month on the debt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And the math says you're done in two years. That's not false hope, that's real. But I am not saying this can be easy. I'm going to say it's the hardest thing you've ever done in your life. It will change your life. It will transform your marriage. It will change who you are as a man. Two years from now, you will walk different.

[Stacy]

And if y'all stay together, your marriage will be so united. Because y'all know we can do anything together, right? And few things light up a wife like a husband with lasers in his eyes on behalf of the family.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you can do this.

[Stacy]

But you got to come alive, brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you've got the language you're using and the way I'm hearing you speak after having done what I do for 30 years, you're giving me all the right signals that you're sick and tired of being sick and tired. And when you get there, you're ready to change. You're ready to do something new. If you're ready to change and you're ready to do something new, I can show you how to get out faster than anybody else. But I am warning you ahead of time, it's going to be painful. And I'm also going to warn you ahead of time, it will work. And I'm also going to warn you ahead of time that it's worth it. You'll be free for the rest of your life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, yeah, yeah, we've been, we've been making that, talking about that for, like I said, the past couple months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, it's no more. Tonight it starts. We're game on. I'm going to send you Financial Peace University and I'm going to send you every dollar premium free as my gift to you. Because I've been where you are. I've been scared, hopeless. Didn't know what the crap was going on. I know exactly how it feels. It does not feel good. And then I reached the same point. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And it changed my life, man. That's why I'm telling you to work. So hang on, we'll send you that and get you guys going on this. And also throw in a total money makeover book for the Heck of it. Let's just. Merry Christmas. Ho ho, ho. Right? Let's just make sure you get the whole dose and dunk yourself in this stuff. And listen, whatever your broke friends say, if they're making fun of you, that means you're on track. If your mother in law thinks you joined a cult, that means you're on track. Get it. Get it, baby. Game on. Get it. You can do it. This is the Ramsey show. Foreign.

[Stacy]

What up? What up? It's Dr. John DeLoney from the Dr. John DeLoney show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey network app. This docu series follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90 day journey to transform their lives. And I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life?

[Stacy]

What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you ready to jump in?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm ready to jump in.

[Stacy]

We're going to check in with Kelsey. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. I cannot even function because I'm just crying.

[Dr. John Deloney]

My mom left us when I was 4. I truly felt like for a while I had no family.

[Stacy]

She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He triggers me a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Scared of losing Paul. Scared of doing the wrong thing, Scared.

[Stacy]

Of not being enough. It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It is.

[Stacy]

Whenever somebody's playing whack a mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Cause I feel like she's running the show.

[Stacy]

One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. I was this.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was this burden.

[Stacy]

You burden. That's right. To the one person who should carry it. All of it. Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know what to do.

[Stacy]

You either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you got to choose to let this guy go.