You Don’t Get Out of Debt by Accident—Choose Your Hard

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: You Don’t Get Out of Debt by Accident—Choose Your Hard
Date: January 20, 2026
Hosts: Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw
Theme: Empowering listeners to confront financial challenges head-on, emphasizing the importance of intentional decisions, value alignment, and the “Baby Steps” plan to get out of debt and build generational wealth.

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show takes on the central idea that becoming debt-free does not happen by accident—it’s about choosing your struggles wisely and embracing discomfort in the name of lasting financial security. Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw, broadcasting live from the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, guide callers through real-life money issues, from marital budget clashes and overcoming overspending habits to complex debt pay-off strategies and emotional family loans. Throughout, the message is clear: building wealth takes intentionality, unity, and a willingness to disrupt comfort zones for a better future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dealing with Money Disagreements in Marriage

[00:44–09:01]

• Caller: Grace from Asheville, NC struggles with a partner whose approach to the Ramsey plan (“Baby Steps”) is more free-spirited.
• Main Issue: Clash of financial values; she’s a saver valuing "safety," he’s a spender wishing for "freedom."
• Ken advises, “This is a 100% marriage conversation, not a money conversation. You’ve got to go below why each of you thinks the way you do.”
• Jade’s input: If the money plan feels like a “religion” to her husband, communication needs a soft reset.
• Action: Both suggest inviting a therapist into the conversation to reboot from a place of empathy and values alignment—not rules enforcement.

Quote:
“By the way, how do I help his heart catch up to sixth grade math?” – Ken, [03:34]

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2. Managing Massive Student Loan Debt on High Income

[10:28–20:11]

• Caller: John, plastic surgeon with $600,000 in student loans, a mortgage, two leased cars, wife at home with kids, baby on the way.
• Jade dispels the need for a huge emergency fund due to his strong monthly income and insurance protection.
• Plan: Use current savings to pay off wife's smaller student loan, get out of car leases as fast as possible, buy used vehicles with cash, then attack remaining debt with large monthly payment chunks.
• Key Insight: Don’t let the security of big numbers paralyze quick action. “Security is best gotten quickly, not little by little drip by drip over time.”

Quote:
“If you live on 250 and use the other 500 to pay off the loans, you’re done in a year.” – Jade, [15:23]

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3. Self-Sabotaging with Spending Habits

[21:40–31:28]

• Caller: Colin, 24, repeatedly falling into debt despite decent income due to lifestyle inflation and impulse purchases.
• Main Issue: Emotional roots of overspending (“instant gratification justifies my hard work”).
• Ken pushes reflection: “Who are you trying to impress?” and challenges Colin to redefine “success” as options and freedom, not possessions.
• Solution: Jade emphasizes separating “have-to” vs. “want-to” expenses; prioritize responsibilities over consumer desires.

Memorable Moment:
Country music lyric: “Never had a plan, just living for the minute”—used to sum up Colin’s approach, [28:57].

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4. Too Much House? Navigating Housing Decisions Under Pressure

[33:49–42:19]

• Caller: Russell in Colorado Springs; military family, great income but struggling with a too-high mortgage payment and facing a possible move.
• Options Discussed:
  • Refinance: Minimal savings, doesn’t solve the fundamental problem.
  • Sell and move on base: Saves $1,000/month, but must take a loss on the house.
  • Increase wife’s income: Keeps the house, but strains family choice/values.
• Ken & Jade: Both options have trade-offs—ultimately, “Choose your hard.” Do what aligns with your family’s long-term priorities, but realize that too much house keeps you “squeaking by.”

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5. The Emotional Fallout of Family Loans

[44:13–52:51]

• Caller: Michael, married, now responsible for wife’s pre-marriage $46,000 family loan of unclear terms.
• Advice: Avoid sitting down with in-laws to renegotiate loan terms; instead, own the obligation and pay it back with dignity and boundaries.
• Key Lesson: Don’t bring passive-aggressive energy to family financial matters; restoration and freedom come from taking responsibility.

Quote:
“If I borrowed money from somebody, I got to pay it back. And I don’t go down and go now, hey, how much of this do you really want back?” – Ken, [48:49]

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6. Frugal Weddings and Intergenerational Clashes

[54:29–63:14]

• Caller: Karen, parents want to give $20,000 to daughter for wedding, but daughter wants to spend less and use the rest for a house.
• Ken and Jade challenge the parents: A gift is a gift—let them choose; “change the narrative,” celebrate their frugality, and set pride aside.
• Memorable exchange on men only wanting quick ceremonies and not fancy food at weddings—with comic relief about “pizza rolls and beer.”

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7. Making Insurance and Investment Choices in Uncertain Times

Throughout

• Multiple Callers: Seek clarity on topics like rising insurance premiums, when to buy life insurance, and tradeoffs between term and whole life policies.
• Hosts’ Position: Buy only term life insurance for 10x annual income and invest the rest yourself; avoid the poor returns and complexity of whole life.

  “Whole Life is actually not insurance.” – Ken, [83:15]

• On health insurance, shop around, use trusted brokers, and accept that high premiums, while painful, are a blessing to afford.

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8. Momentum and Gazelle Intensity: A Debt-Free Scream

[107:07–116:27]

• Colin & Megan’s Story: Paid off $215,000 in student loans (mostly pharmacy school) in just 23 months with extreme frugality (ramen, peanut butter sandwiches), overtime, and unified focus.
• Emotional Takeaway: Frustration, fear, but also healing and deepened marital trust.

  “Write it down and do it… It flies by, before you know it you’re out of it.” – Megan, [114:17]

• Celebration: Debt-free scream; future stability and peace.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You don’t get out of debt by accident—you choose your hard.” (episode theme)
• On marital money clashes:
  “This is a 100% marriage conversation, not a money conversation, you guys.” – Ken, [07:12]
• On aggressive debt payoff:
  “Ripping off the band-aid is the way to get that [security].” – Jade, [19:24]
• On success and spending:
  “Once you go into debt, it means you couldn’t afford it. So it becomes a fake level of success.” – Jade, [27:36]
• On generational freedom:
  “You want to get to that place of security fast.” – Jade, [19:24]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:44–09:01] Money & marriage: value differences, budgeting as a team
• [10:28–20:11] Doctor with $600k loans: rapid payoff planning
• [21:40–31:28] Young spender confronting financial habits & identity
• [33:49–42:19] Should we sell, refinance, or stay? Military housing dilemma
• [44:13–52:51] Family loans, boundaries, and in-law tension
• [54:29–63:14] Wedding funding: frugality vs. parental expectations
• [66:42–71:32] Navigating insurance sticker shock and family health needs
• [79:58–81:35] Life insurance: term vs. whole
• [87:13–95:17] Best use of windfall income and vehicle logistics
• [107:07–116:27] DEBT-FREE SCREAM: $215k in 23 months, ramen and all

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Overall Tone & Language

Supportive, direct, and practical, with signature Ramsey humor, tough love, and doses of empathy. Hosts meet listeners where they are but always challenge them to dream bigger, act with courage, and choose long-term reward over short-term comfort.

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Key Takeaways

• Getting out of debt is about intentionality and choosing short-term discomfort for long-term peace.
• Financial arguments in relationships are rooted deeper than numbers—align values first.
• Fast, focused action beats lingering in security.
• Define your values, and let your money reflect the future you want.
• Don’t get creative with complex products (e.g., whole life insurance, refinancing tricks); stick to simple principles.
• Celebrate your wins—no matter how small—and let momentum motivate you.
• No matter how much you’ve messed up, you can rewrite your story, on purpose.

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End of Summary.

Transcript

[Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey show alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in today is AA 882-5525-888882-55225. Let's go. Grace is going to start us off in Asheville, North Carolina. Grace, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi Ken. Thanks so much for speaking with me today.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

My question is regarding my marriage and how to handle finances. I'm the saver in my marriage, whereas my husband's more of the free spirit. And although we make a really great income, I'm still having a really difficult time staying encouraged when his heart hasn't caught up to the sixth grade math as you all have talked about. So my question is more about how to not be a controller or an enabler and continue being an encouraging wife when I just feel really let down and there's a lot of arguments.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, bless your heart. I love this. Okay, couple of questions. Are you in the baby steps and if so, where? And then how long have you got or have you been trying to get this going?

[Caller]

Great question. So we are in the baby steps. We do have an emergency fund of a little over $1,000 which I'd be happy for it just to be 1,000, but I'll just say that for now.

Right.

We do have a personal loan that's just left over on a truck that we bought and we have a mortgage since we own our house.

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

How much is the loan on the truck?

[Caller]

The loan on the truck that we have Left is just 1975. 69.

[Ken Coleman]

So 19,000.

[Caller]

1,000. Sorry, 1,975. I got it down in the penny.

[Jade Warshaw]

Who'd you borrow it from? A family member?

[Caller]

No, we didn't. We had. We actually got a loan from the bank and then it's a long story. But that's just essentially what we have left on it.

[Ken Coleman]

What is your income?

[Caller]

So I make a base of 60 with an on target earning of 90. And my husband is. He is commission only so that's part of the challenge. And he has been commission only since we got married.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, what's he make?

[Caller]

He made over 150. Our first year of marriage is about 160 pre tax and he's on track hopefully to at least make 150 at this new position. He has. He's been switching up quite a bit. But how long have you been.

[Ken Coleman]

How long ago did you bring this whole Ramsey plan to him?

[Caller]

Oh, immediately.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no.

[Announcer]

How long ago?

[Caller]

Well, we started talking about it when we were dating, especially when we got engaged. We started talking about the debt that he had.

[Ken Coleman]

How many years? I'm just trying. I'm trying to. I'm doing all this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure.

[Caller]

We've. We've known each other for three years. We pretty much jumped into our relationship. We've been married for a little over a year and a half.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And the reason I'm asking all this stuff is because, sir, Jade and I to weigh in and try to help you on your core question, which is, I love the way you position it. By the way, how do I help his heart catch up to sixth grade math? So what I'm trying to understand is, is he opposed to this plan or is it just really, really hard for him to live by the plan? What's his response?

[Caller]

I would definitely say the latter. Like, he'll say, I'm a Christian. I'm not a Ramsayan.

[Jade Warshaw]

Interesting.

[Caller]

Because he thinks I'm so hardcore about it. But I think. But he also is aware of the fact that it's relative. Right. So I come off very extreme to him and he comes off very extreme to me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. Yeah. I'll be honest. The fact that he's likening a money plan to a religion lets me know that it's coming across to him through you as quite extreme. Give me an example, like, give me a real time example of a conversation that you've had where he was on one end and had one opinion and what it was and you were on the other hand and had another opinion and what it was.

[Caller]

Great question. So yesterday we were going over where we are for January and for example, like, our grocery budget is $1,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. A month for just the two of you. No kids.

[Caller]

We had no children. I think it's very reasonable. I said, what are your thoughts on all of this? And when we got to the grocery category, he basically said, I see that we're like almost. We're at the upper 900s, like 990something. I think that's to be. And I caught it later. I said, well, why would you say that this is to be expected if we have a budget of $1,000 and we're on the mark to essentially double it? Why would we have agreed to this? Are you saying it more so needs to be 2000 and he'll get really upset because I come off like I'm trying to preach to him or coach him or, like, tell him that he's not really getting it, that this isn't okay. So I feel like I'm also very passive, and it comes off disrespectful, but I'm also, like, getting really, really frustrated.

[Jade Warshaw]

Go back. For me, I may have missed something. So the budget's a thousand. You're up to it at, like, 990something. Help me understand the doubling part. I think I missed that.

[Caller]

Yeah. So I basically said, because we're at the middle of the month doing, like.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you need to slow down. Yeah. You're saying we need to slow down. We're up at it. I just want to make sure I understood that properly.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And he was more.

[Caller]

So why did you say, this is to be expected? Like, when he looked at it, he said, well, that's to be expected for groceries.

[Jade Warshaw]

Understood.

[Caller]

I was like, well, why are you saying that?

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, understood. Because you're saying we set a boundary. We should stick to the boundary. And he's saying, well, this is just an indicator that this is what we spend. So if we go to 2000, that, that, that should be accurate. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So I, I. Here's. Here's what I want to. Just a fun experiment. Okay. I want you to pick one word answers to these two questions. Grace. Okay. And don't overthink it.

[Caller]

I'll try not to.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. I just want you to go top of mind. Okay? If you were to pick one word to describe what you value about money, say, what is that one word?

[Caller]

Safety.

[Ken Coleman]

What is it?

[Caller]

Safety.

[Ken Coleman]

Safety. Okay, great. I thought that was gonna come out. What do you think he would say? What's the word?

[Jade Warshaw]

That. Freedom. I knew it.

[Ken Coleman]

I did, too. So the reason I've gone to this is because I actually. This is a 100% marriage conversation. This is not a money conversation, you guys. And then you are different in that you said that you're the saver and he's the spender. And Dave has talked about the natural, but I actually think for you guys, you got to go below why each of you is. Is. Is. One of you is the spender, one of you is a saver. And I think when you're attempting to adopt a value system like Ramsey Solutions, the baby steps are based on a value system.

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

And it's really hard for some people to get into that system. It's easier for others. Okay. Because Dave's got a very rigid plan. Right. No wiggle.

[Announcer]

Room.

[Ken Coleman]

A lot of black and white and people that aren't naturally black and white, who aren't rigid and disciplined at times can have a harder time adopting it. So we can't really solve this for you. But other than I believe that I would start over. I really believe that I would sit down with a therapist and not make this heavy with him. Just go, you know what? I've been too intense. I think you've led the system. So I think you've got to lead the healing and the reboot. And I think it needs to be, let's start over and let's give a therapist. Not because we're, our marriage is dying, because I think we need to reset on a very important issue. And I've got some safety issues with money. And you're so amazing. Can we restart? And I think if we start with a therapist on language around this and then restart, I think you guys can heal on this.

[Announcer]

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[Ken Coleman]

Attorney Advertising Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. All right, let's go to John in Newark, New Jersey. John, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, Jayden. Ken, thank you so much for taking my call. Big fans.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, thank you. How can we help you?

[Caller]

Yeah, so essentially my wife and I are a single income family. We have two babies, a four year old, two year old and one due next month. And we recently started following the baby steps. And my question is regarding the size of our debt and when exactly should we start tackling this. So we have about 600,000 in student loans plus a mortgage and two car leases which after listening to Dave Ramsey, we're going to get rid of.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much is the student loans.

[Caller]

So 500,000 me, 100,000 for my wife.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, wow. Okay. And then tell me about the cars.

[Caller]

So the cars are two leases, just an F150 and an Expedition.

[Jade Warshaw]

What are the prices? Every month.

[Caller]

We pay about 800 for her car. For mine.

[Jade Warshaw]

My, my, my. Okay, what is your situation?

[Caller]

I know we. We made these before listening to the.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your degree in for 500k?

[Caller]

I'm a plastic surgeon.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you. What's your income? Did we ask that?

[Caller]

It's. It's about. It varies a little bit, but it's about 750.

[Jade Warshaw]

Excellent, excellent. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I feel way better. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So this kind of puts it in perspective. It's all relative, right? Depending on the numbers. So when's the baby do?

[Caller]

Baby do is in three to four weeks from now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And what money do you have saved?

[Caller]

We have about 122,000 in a high yield saving.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you've got. Would you say that that covers six months of expenses or four months. How many months of expenses does that cover.

[Caller]

To cover? About over six months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Over six months. Okay, great. So I would say, you know, typically we say when there's a baby coming, you're kind of in stork mode. Save up as much as you can. You've got plenty saved.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but hold on. Let's just get real here. What's your take home as a plastic surgeon? What's your average take home in a month?

[Caller]

So in a month, I've been averaging about 34.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

You got gobs of money, you can fix this so fast it's not even funny. Jay's gonna walk you through it, but I don't think he needs to stack up.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I said he doesn't. I'm just also saying, for the benefit of a listener who is used to us saying, if there's a baby coming, stop and save. I'm explaining why he doesn't need to do that. Cause he's got plenty saved. So you don't need to do that. We normally would give that advice, but you've got plenty. And so I would go ahead and push play. Even if, by the. By the way, even if there were some form of complications and your insurance kicked in and you hit your full deductible, even if you hit your out of pocket max for the year, you'd be fine. So that's why I think that you can go ahead and hit play on this. And if I were you, when do these leases, when are they up?

[Caller]

So next year oh, can you get.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can you find out what it is to get out of them early?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's, that's our plan. Our plan is to find out and get rid of them as, as fast as we can.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, do that, do that. There's no need in keeping this around any, any faster. I would take a little bit of the money of the 122,000 you have saved and buy some cash cars. Um, and it's not going to be the, the be all, end all. I'm not saying you have to spend $4,000, but I am saying it's probably going to be less than the cars you drive now just to get you something in cash. But don't drop that emergency fund below six months in order to do this. And then I would start getting cracking with the rest of that money once the baby is born. With the rest of that six month fund, I would come in and I would clear out one of these student loans. And you're going to drop that pretty low.

[Caller]

I guess my, my wife and I worry is that given the size of our student loans, if we follow the baby steps, we will kind of burn through all our savings.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And be a little ways away from being able to pay them and being a single, single income family.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so let me, let me address that because I'm going to tell you straight up, I'll tell you the 100% truth. If you do it the way that I'm going to suggest, it's going to feel uncomfortable because I want you to be debt free really, really fast. Because I value the same thing you do, which is to get to security quickly. Right to your point. You're a one income family, you've got lots of kids. Right now your house is on fire, you've got almost $700,000 of debt. So you gotta clear it out. So I'm on your side in the way that I wanna do it as quickly as possible. So if you take 122,000 and you pay off the $100,000 student loan, you clear out the mortgages, you spend 10,000 or $11,000 each on some knockaround cars until this thing is cleared out. And then for, I don't know, a year, you guys live on 200,000 instead of 700,000 and you pay off the $500,000 student loan. I think that that's possible because most people in the, in the United States wish they had a $200,000 income. So if you, if you live on 250 and use the other 500 to pay off the loans, you're done in a year.

[Caller]

So pretty much live with a minimum or minimal emergency savings until those are done.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you familiar with our baby steps?

[Caller]

Yes, 100%.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So that means you have a thousand.

[Caller]

Same baby step number two.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. But if you were to follow the baby steps, the way we teach you are emptying that savings account.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because here's the thing. Let me. Let me hit you with this. Let's play it out. Let's say I tell you, hey, hey, drop your. Drop your savings down to $1,000 just to have a little cash there. Pay off the hundred thousand dollar student loan, like I said. Pay 10 or $11,000 each on some cars and over the course of the year, spend $500,000 of your income to pay off this debt. If you have an emergency, what's the worst emergency you can think of? The roof blown off your house.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Caller]

I mean, something happening to me, okay. That I wouldn't be able to work.

[Jade Warshaw]

So let's. Well, that's a different. That's a life insurance question. So we'll talk about that in a second. But let's pretend a big gust of wind comes tomorrow. You've taken your savings down to a thousand and the roof blows off your house. Right. Something crazy. You make $34,000 a month. I'm pretty sure you could stop paying debt for that month in cash flow, whatever the emergency is. Right?

[Caller]

That's a very good point.

[Jade Warshaw]

You see what I'm saying? Now, if you're concerned about your being a one one income family, that's a life insurance question. Disability and disability. Do you have life insurance?

[Caller]

I have. I have both, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, then you're covered.

[Ken Coleman]

So the point is, if something happens to you and you can no longer be a plastic surgeon, have you put in place policies that would take care of you and your family?

[Caller]

I have, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

All right then. So what are we stressing out about? Now, we know this is extreme, but let's play the numbers out so you can catch a little vision here, because Jay just played out how you can knock off, you know, a lot of debt. So if you fix these car leases and can get out of these, and then you knock out your wife's student loan, now you've got a $500,000 chunk. How much money, if you're on a tight budget, could you put towards debt that student loan every month based on the 34?

[Caller]

Yeah. I think projecting with the three babies, we could probably put away at least maybe 15 or a little more per month.

[Ken Coleman]

Great. So let's keep it at 15 for round numbers.

[Announcer]

Right?

[Ken Coleman]

So you just do the math. 15,000amonth over the course of how many months knocks out the 500,000. I think it's really important that you have that in your head so that you go, okay, I've got to do this. It's not for 10 years. It's for, you know, whatever that's going to end up being. I don't, I'm not that good at math. All right, 15 times 10 months obviously is 150,000. So we're looking at three plus years at the 15,000, but that's just at that. But that's to say you gave us an average month. So, you know, how does a plastic surgeon go? Make more money? That would be the answer I'd be wanting to know. I don't know. I don't know. That's on my world. But I bet there's a way.

[Caller]

How do you.

[Ken Coleman]

What do we. What do you have to do to make a million dollars?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, because taxes is eating up a lot of this.

[Ken Coleman]

I know there's a. I know there's a lot of vain people.

[Jade Warshaw]

My point is, and I was using very round numbers. Too round probably. But my point is, the quicker you get this done, the quicker you can go back to living your plastic surgeon's lifestyle with the cars you want and the income you want and the savings that you want. But if you're trying to solve for security, security is best gotten quickly, not little by little, drip by drip over time. You want to get to that place of security fast. And ripping off the band aid is the way to get that.

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Colin next in Salt Lake City. Colin, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hello. How are y' all doing today?

[Announcer]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

How are you, sir?

[Caller]

I'm doing very well. I won't steal Dave's catchphrase.

[Ken Coleman]

Go ahead. If it feels good, say it. We don't care.

[Caller]

I'm doing better than I deserve.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is. I knew you wanted to say it, so there you go. All right.

[Caller]

That's true.

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Caller]

But anyway, my question today is I'm on baby step two, and I keep getting into debt because of my poor spending habits. And that's what I want to fix. And so it's like we can get into where I'm at. No, my debts.

[Ken Coleman]

Not yet. Because I think you just presented what you really need to fix. Now I'll turn it over to Jade to walk you through how to get out of this, very specifically. But let's dive into this. What do you think? Here you are calling Big show, and you're burying this to the world because I think you're probably sick and tired of this. Yes or no?

[Caller]

Yes. I am very sick of it.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, then what do you think is causing you to spend irresponsibly? What do you think's below the surface?

[Caller]

Well, I'm pretty young. I'm 24, and I never really learned how to managed my money well. I had people who tried to teach me, but I didn't listen. And I started making really good money pretty early on.

[Ken Coleman]

Who tried to teach you?

[Caller]

My dad.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

He tried very hard to teach.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And what kind of money are you making?

[Caller]

I'm making about $60,000 a year, base. But last year I made just under 80,000 with overtime and everything.

[Ken Coleman]

And then be really honest. Tell us. Tell Jade and I what you spend your money on. If we were to go through and do an audit, and what would we find that we would consider irresponsible?

[Caller]

A lot of things, mainly. Biggest one is probably going to be food. Right. Even though I meal prep, sometimes I want to go get some food.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure.

[Caller]

The bigger ones. The bigger ones are nice things living out of my means.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like what?

[Caller]

So I'm trying to think of some.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm sure they're sitting in your driveway.

[Ken Coleman]

How hard is it for you to. How hard is it for you to remember the big things you've bought in the last 12 months?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

What.

[Caller]

What are we talking about in the last 12 months? So of course I have a motorcycle, I have an suv. Right. I got those. And that takes up the bulk of my debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Are you taking trips?

[Caller]

No, I'm not taking trips. It's mainly buying higher quality things because I don't like buying cheap things multiple times.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so are you buying higher quality things on debt, or are you using cash?

[Caller]

In some cases, it's using debts.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Who are you trying to impress?

[Caller]

Probably myself, but that could be a lie. I don't really have anybody around. I'm single. I'm not in the dating market.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's the deal. We'll save time because you don't have to answer that now, because that's putting you on the spot. But I think that that's a legitimate question you need to wrestle with.

[Jade Warshaw]

I also think the question you have to wrestle with is what does success mean? Because if success to you means, I can buy this, I can buy that, I can buy that. And it just is a list of things that you can buy. You'll just keep buying and buying and buying. But if success equals something a little more weighty, I think it could cause you to pull back on some of those purchases. So I think those are good questions to sit down and really think through. Is what, what does this mean to me? What am I trying to. To solve for here? Does that make sense? Does success mean I have an $80,000 vehicle? Or does success mean I have options? Does success mean I can buy three motorcycles? Or does success mean I have time, Freedom? Right.

[Ken Coleman]

How would you define a broke person? Do that for me.

[Caller]

Somebody who's broke is probably, if they lose their job, they lose their livelihood. Right. So not just the job itself. I'm talking their car. They can't go to work, they can't make money. Right. They might lose their house. You know, somebody who's kind of a slave to the debt.

[Ken Coleman]

You're on path. So that's the path you're on, is to be a guy who has a lot of stuff but is broke.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Because there's plenty of people who make $40,000 a year, don't have debt, don't overspend, don't go into debt over things that they can't afford. And that person, at this point, more successful financially than you are. Right. So I think it's really good to think about what Ken just said to think about what I just said, because I. I have a. It's not a numbers problem. Right. We can go through your Numbers, we can show you that you've got margin. We can show you. I mean, and we can do that in this call. We can talk about paying off your debt, but this is kind of. This is a values question on who do you want to be with your money? What's important to you? What's actually going to give you meaning with your money? Because my guess is you're a hard worker. You're going to keep earning more and more and more. But stuff really does. When it just starts piling up and piling up, it starts to kind of lose its meaning. And I think that you're starting to sense that already. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes. It's almost the instant gratification of buying things justifies my hard work.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, and let's also.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it can. I'm not saying that it can. I do think that when Ken, when we work you, you earn your paycheck and you do like, you picture a lifestyle that goes along with the money that you earn. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it becomes a problem when we're willing to go into debt because now it becomes a facade. Once you go into debt, it means you couldn't afford it. So it becomes. That's a fake level of success. What if you just. Because if you had told me before, Jade, I like high quality things, I would have said, yes, me too, Colin. If you had said, j, I just like spending money on nice dinners and nice, nice clothes, and if I go on a date, I want to do it up, I would have said, me too, Colin. You lost me when you said you were going into debt to do it. You see what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

So that's the pullback right there.

[Ken Coleman]

You. Have you ever. Are you a country music fan by any chance?

[Caller]

A little bit. I dabble.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I don't know if you've ever heard of the song Way down yonder on.

[Jade Warshaw]

The chattahoocheer on the chattahoochee Never knew how much that muddy water meant.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you. There's a line in there that keeps. Came up in my head. All right. Have you ever heard of the song, Colin?

[Caller]

I haven't.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm great. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Here's the point, okay? There's a lyric that came up in my mind from that great song that reminds me of you, okay? And I don't say this in an ugly way, so forget the whole country music thing. But there's a line that says, never had a plan. Just living for the minute.

[Jade Warshaw]

Never had a plan.

[Ken Coleman]

I think that kind of defines you. I don't think there's some deep heaviness necessarily with you and money. I just think you're young and you want things in life. You want some finer things. You like the finer things. And I'll bet you that there's also a connection between your dad, what a good man he is who tried to tell you about this. And I'll bet you tell me if I'm right or wrong, that your dad's pretty darn frugal.

[Caller]

True or false nowadays he is. After he made his mistakes and tried to get me to not make those mistakes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So did he have a time in his life where he was buying lots of toys he couldn't afford?

[Caller]

Oh, yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So, hey, so listen, here's another thing that runs in you. So all of this is awareness. All I'm doing is kind of helping you get aware to where you go. Okay, Now I've got to change my list. And I think this is a fun exercise for you. If I were coaching in your house, this is what I do. I go get out of LegalPad, draw a line down the middle, and I want you to write half two on the left and want to on the right. Now, you have a very different have to list at 25 than I do at 51. I got three kids. You know, I want a wife, one's in college. I got two doodles. And so when my money comes in every month, I have a long have to list.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

But I get great satisfaction. The same satisfaction that you just mentioned in Jade, I get from providing and taking care of my responsibilities. But my have to list is where my priority is. And even now. And I make good money.

[Announcer]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. But I still have a have to and a want to and my want tos. Jade knows some of that list. There's some expensive toys out there that I want, but guess what? They come in second.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

To the have to's. And I think for you to say, now, where do I want to be when I'm Ken's age? Unfortunately, I'm that old to where I can use that example. And that's 30 years from you. Right? Where do you want to be? So now make your have to list with your money every month based on where you want to end up in life. You're spending all your time in the want to column, which is natural. So not beating up on you, but flip that mindset and watch the discipline come with it.

[Announcer]

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, if you're wondering where all your money went in 2025, don't experience too much shame. A lot of people like you, that's pretty normal. And normal's broke. So this year can be different, right? So let's get a head start. Download EveryDollar builds a personalized plan for where you are with your money to help you get where you want to be with your money. And we have coaching and a personalized plan. It's like being on the air with us, except there's no time limits really going to help you beat debt and build wealth. And we have found that when people are answering just a few questions that they get prompted with that. You're going to find thousands of dollars in savings on average in just the first 15 minutes. And you get the same great budgeting feature. So the new every dollar, it's unbelievable. Start it for free right now in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Russell, who joins us in Colorado Springs. Russell, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hello. Thank you. My wife and I just wanted to get some advice on whether we need to sell our home or take one of our refinancing quotes we've recently received.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, run us through the numbers.

[Caller]

All right. We make about $9,000 monthly, but our current mortgage is $3,250. And then our utilities are usually 300. And then we also have a minivan that has 8,500 left that we've been putting 600 to every month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, minivan. And so tell me about the refi offers. Tell me about your current interest rate and what the refis are.

[Caller]

Yep. So current interest rate is 6.25 and the best that I could get was actually a Churchill mortgage who gave me 5.25 right now. And it would save us $320 a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Which doesn't solve your problem per se. You're about $1,000 off from where you want to be. You want to be about 2,250. Is there a light at the end of that tunnel? Because so far the savings is not enough for me to be like woo hoo, go do it. I'd be looking at some other things in your life that could shift to bring in a little bit more cash. Is there something there on the career front?

[Caller]

We, we are active duty military, so we could move on base, which with utilities and rent would only cost $2,300.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, great.

[Caller]

But then we'd have to sell the home and that's what we're worried about.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let's walk through that for a minute. When will you, will you be transferring anytime soon? Do you have a kind of a scheduled move as a lot of military folks do?

[Caller]

Yeah, in the next two years there's a chance we can move.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, there you go, Jade.

[Jade Warshaw]

That is good. How big of a chance that you'll move?

[Caller]

We could stay here. We're in space for. So we could stay, but we could also choose to move. It's not as big of a deal.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you think you would choose to move or would you choose to stay?

[Caller]

I think it depends on which house we are in.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ah, okay. So let's then go back before we tackle this house. Go back and tell me about the other debt. You said there was a minivan. Did I hear that right?

[Announcer]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell me what else?

[Caller]

Yep. And that's. That's it.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much is it again?

[Caller]

It is currently 8, 500.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, 8,500. And there's no other debt besides that?

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how much is that monthly payment? You probably already said it, but It's.

[Caller]

It's only 240. But we've been paying 600.

[Jade Warshaw]

You've been paying?

[Caller]

We wanted to pay it off but I was worried about the government shutdown, so that isn't gonna happen though.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. So if you moved on base, you'd save the thousand dollars and get everything right side up. But if you lived in the base housing, you would not want to stay there long Term.

[Caller]

Potentially, yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. But I think that's a bigger worry.

[Caller]

For us is that we owe 462 on our house and our mother told us It'd probably be 450.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I think moving on bait, this is very black and white to me. So I'm sitting there looking at, if I were in your shoes, you guys get way too much house and your cat, your income is capped. Right. There's no income fix on this because of your military role. And there is also a, let's call it 50, 50 chance that you're going to move if you did that. We always give advice to folks in the military. Don't become a long range landlord for sure. So because of all of this, I'm just trying to.

[Jade Warshaw]

I want him to be right side up on that house a little bit because you said it. But I don't think 462 and it's worth 450.

[Ken Coleman]

He can't. There's no way to. Unless you can find a way to solve that. I don't think that's solvable. But I'd rather take that hit and get into the bait. Cut their expenses and get in the base housing. I just think this house was a bad idea. And I think I would go on base, reset and get your financial house in order. You can always buy another house, but because you're in the military anyway, that's an option.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm not saying it's.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you could have a different piece of advice. I just don't know how you fix being upside down.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, let's lay out time. So let's lay out both options. So, Ken, option number one is go ahead and sell the house, take the loss, move into base housing, save yourself $1,000 a month, and then you'll have freed up money to pay off the 8,500. Another option is can your wife work? Can your wife make a thousand bucks a month?

[Caller]

She stays at home and homeschool. So we don't want her to.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. The answer to that is yes.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

She can make $1,000 a month. She's this. The kids aren't in school 24 hours a day. Right, right. That's. That's option two. Option two is. Option two is wife makes it a point to say, I'm going to try to make between 900 to a thousand bucks a month. Suddenly there's no more squeeze on the income. You're right at the 25% point, which is where you want to be. And then Your only debt's 8, 500 on the van. That's your only debt. And then suddenly you pay that off, you've got 600 bucks a month back in your pocket, the mortgage is in the rightful spot, and you can ride that house out until it's time to move. And then when the option to move comes, if you want to move, you can. If you don't want to move, you can stay there. And hopefully by then, after those two years, you're back right side up on this house and the market has done you well. So that's option two. Neither of these are wrong nor right. They're just what you think is best. Would you agree with that, Ken? Or do you think. Do you think my. No, do you think.

[Ken Coleman]

I think if they're comfortable as a couple with her committing to make that kind of money, but that's not a lifestyle choice they've chosen. So now I look at that and I go, by the way, I 100% agree that is a viable option. But I. I still think they have too much house if. If she has to do that for you all to sneak underneath where you need to be. It's too much house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, yeah, it is, but at the.

[Ken Coleman]

Same time, I'm getting thumbs up from the audience. That's all I'm saying. Thumbs up from the audience out there?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, from that kid.

[Ken Coleman]

No, from this lady right here. Oh, oh, there's a guy right there that's frowning at me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I think not. It would be.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know why you're frowning. I haven't given them a viable option here.

[Jade Warshaw]

It'd be one worked if they both worked and it was still. But it's. They're really squeaking by. It's right there.

[Ken Coleman]

That's my point. They're squeaking by because of the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. No, no, no. I'm saying squeaking by on their percentage. And I'm saying moving especially while is a big deal. So I, I would. Awards option, too. That's just what I would do.

[Ken Coleman]

I'll go with. I'll go with two to make you and the guy happy. But here's the deal.

[Jade Warshaw]

Stick to your gun.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's why I'm saying this. They're also in the military.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. They're going to move anyway.

[Ken Coleman]

If they were in this place, long term, I would have sided with the option one. I just think because they're not there long term, probably, then I think you got to look at that. But again, if they decide to change.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much they're going to lose on their upside Down. They don't have that cash. That's going to create more debt for them.

[Ken Coleman]

Again, I'm sticking to getting out of debt. And you got to choose your pain, choose your heart. So there you go. Listen, I don't need to be right. I gave him another option.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know. I want to know what he's going to choose.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, a lot of it has to do with the wife.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I think in today's digital world, where you can hop on the Internet, you can sell anything. You can tutor. I mean, she's a teacher. Maybe she tutors some kids in the. In the area. There's a lot you can do to make a thousand bucks pretty quickly.

[Ken Coleman]

I so am in agreement with yours as an option that she could make more than a thousand.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you're right. They might decide it's not a value for them.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but you're right. There's no question they can right side from an income if she's working.

[Jade Warshaw]

Working. You're saying it's all values.

[Ken Coleman]

I. Again, you know me. I come down to it's always a Ramsey principle first, but then we got to look at the practicality of the relationship. So there are winning. There are cases where there's multiple options to achieve the principle.

[Jade Warshaw]

So how will they pay off the upside down?

[Ken Coleman]

Selling stuff. She's working, doing other things. But they're out of house.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's another principle, though.

[Ken Coleman]

But they're out of the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's true. That's true.

[Ken Coleman]

So I.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

That's why I like both options.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, they're both good. Call us back and tell us what you do.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Either way, though, it's right. You got to choose your car because you're in a situation you shouldn't be in. So that's the moral of the story there. Hey, thanks for the call. I appreciate you all serving our country. You're a great American.

[Announcer]

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. And we go to Michael, who's joining us in Las Vegas. Michael, how can we help today?

[Caller]

All right, so I was discussing with my wife some kind of, some payments we're making and different things and kind of getting things planned out for the near future. And one of the clouds that's kind of hanging over us is the money that we owe her parents. And I, a lot of it kind of came into the relationship from before I even met her. And so I was just kind of wondering how I should go about a conversation with my in laws to try to kind of figure this out and I guess what's right for me to ask for and I guess just how to go about it all.

[Jade Warshaw]

So did she owe them money on her own before you got married?

[Caller]

Yes. So roughly a decade ago, she started college and they pretty much just gave her a blank check and told her. I mean, I'm still kind of cloudy on the conversations that did happen and I've never been involved in any of them since.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so they basically wrote her a blank check and she, and then took out some student loans in her name as well. And we're paying off the student loans. We should have that paid off by the end of the year. We're, you know, being really diligent with that. How much were they, the student loans? About 22 grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and how much was the blank check for?

[Caller]

That's where based on the ledger I've seen, it's about 46 to. I think it's about $46,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and what did that money go towards? Just life.

[Caller]

Yeah, it was living expenses, college. There were things on there. Like one of the most noticeable for me was Amazon fake plants for $29.95. And so just a lot of, just.

[Jade Warshaw]

A lot of little knickknack stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

I want to rewind to the start of your question here, because the way I heard it, you were asking us, how do I go about. You, how do you go about talking to her parents about money they loaned her? Am I, Did I. I want to make sure I hear it right? Is that what I heard?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes, that's correct.

[Ken Coleman]

So you and your wife have talked about this, and you two, or you nominated yourself as the spokesperson. I want to know what's behind this. I'm going somewhere with this.

[Caller]

Okay. We have just been making plans on getting those student loans paid off. And then after that, we're kind of making plans on what to do with that money. And kind of made my wife uneasy because she wanted to really kind of tackle what she owes her parents. But then she also isn't, I mean, up to date on everything. And she. So we, and we've talked about it and she's agreed to have a conversation with her parents. And I think I'm kind of spearheading this and I really just want to make sure.

[Ken Coleman]

So the both of you are planning to sit down with the parents. And this wasn't clear to me either. So this is why the follow up. What is the goal of you all sitting down with the parents?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm wondering the same thing.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, good.

[Caller]

I want to know, I guess, what they really expect.

[Jade Warshaw]

The money?

[Caller]

Yeah, the money. If that's something that, like, we're really supposed to pay them back for this, $30 for plants even, you know, things like that.

[Ken Coleman]

Is it not clear to you two right now that they expect her or you too, because you're both together now, is it not clear as to whether or not they expect you to pay it back?

[Caller]

They have only told her, oh, just pay it back whenever you can. Kind of.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, wait, I'm gonna go. I gotta go in on this. So if I go to the bank and I borrow, I don't know, $46,000 and I spend it on, I don't know, fake plants and some other doodads and just it adds up little over time. If I go into the bank and say, you know what? I don't think I should pay you back because I spent this money on fake plants and whatnot, they're gonna go, we don't care you borrowed the money and we'd like it back. Right. So it's the same thing here. It doesn't matter what she spent it on It. Clearly you don't agree with the things that she spent it on. Clear you clearly you view it as somewhat wasteful money that shouldn't have been borrowed. That's. That lives over here. In a separate conversation.

[Ken Coleman]

I think it's. I think it's really, really a wrong move. This is why you called. So I'll just get this out of the way. I think it's a bad idea for you and your wife to sit down and put that in their lap.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I think if I borrowed money from somebody, I got to pay it back. And I don't go down and go now, hey, how much of this do you really want back? That is so passive aggressive. It's not good for the relationship. And I will also tell you, as a guy who's been married 28 years and I love my in laws, ain't no chance I'm getting involved in that conversation. That's between your wife and her parents. I.

[Jade Warshaw]

But Michael's conversation, the person he's really got beef with is his wife.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's the conversation.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[Jade Warshaw]

You've got to let her know or maybe don't let her know, but you reconcile. Like, man, I'm struggling that I got brought in on this debt. It is for fake plans.

[Ken Coleman]

It's just, babe, I'm willing to pay it all back as your husband, but I've booked a tee time while you're talking to your parents. Let me know how it goes. I'm not getting involved in that. I'm really not. Other than to say we owe this to your parents. Now if you want to go try to read new terms. I just don't think that's a good move, do you?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I would not touch that with a tea, folks.

[Ken Coleman]

That's going to make Thanksgiving real tasty. I just, I think you two. Now, this would be my advice if you and your wife were in the room with us right now and go, hey, don't do that. Just own it and pay it back. I think you're gonna sleep better, don't you?

[Jade Warshaw]

I think so too. I think the heart like, again, I just said this happened before Michael was involved and he's like share. If he could turn back time, he never would have even done this. And yet here it is like, like John would say, not by his hand but in his lap. So there's. He's just struggling with dealing with this and. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And I feel for you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I do too. It's tough, it's tough to take on debt from, you know, a spouse who's bringing it into the relationship when you don't agree with what the debt was used for.

[Ken Coleman]

So Michael, we. I, I'M only following up here because we've hit you with a lot and we're both on the same page here. Where do you think your wife is with this response that you called the show and we gave you that? Where do you think she sits with all this?

[Caller]

I think she probably agrees with it.

[Announcer]

Okay, great.

[Caller]

But I. I think I see the pain that this kind of causes her, too, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let me reframe that. The only pain your wife should feel around this is the pain of paying the money back because you got to sacrifice.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, right.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't think there needs to be. I think she should come away with this going. When I make this right, I am in good standing as a daughter. I have fulfilled my commitment to my parents. There shouldn't be any pain. In fact, there ought to be an emotional joy to go. I did what was right. The only pain is the sacrifice. We teach every day on this show anyway, which is continue to walk. The baby steps out. I don't see any pain. Am I missing something?

[Caller]

No, I think just that guilt that she has for. I mean, lack of financial education and stability and.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we've all done dumb. Well, you've heard Dave say it a million times. We've all done dumb and stupid with money. No shame. And the best way to get rid of that guilt. Jade give you the final word on that? You write a lot about money and emotions.

[Jade Warshaw]

I do. And matter of fact, I'm gonna have Christian pick up and send you a copy of what no one tells you about money. Because what I think will really help you guys, one of the ways to deal with guilt and shame is to set boundaries. And I think you both need to do that. You know, it's very easy for us to set boundaries for other people, but you both need to say, you know what? We know the information. We know what happened. It's done. We don't need to keep rehashing it. We don't need to keep bringing it up. We're paying it, and that's that on that and set a boundary that says we don't talk. We don't talk about this in that way anymore. Of this. This thing you did, this thing you did. She doesn't get to do it. You don't get to do it. It's over. We pay it. We move on. We're not going to keep bashing ourselves over the head with it.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, guys, George here. Listen, just because it's 2026 now doesn't mean 2025's ideas all go away. Some things are timeless. Like if you want to win with money, it's still the same playbook budget, like your money depends on it. Avoid debt like ten dollar lattes and build wealth on purpose. But here's the truth almost nobody tells you. Most banks make money when you lose yours. They want you swiping, overdrafting and racking up fees because that's how they stay rich while you stay broke. And that's why I tell people to go with Fairwinds Credit union instead. They actually want you to win with money and become debt free. And their smart bundle gives you a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and my favorite, the new Ramsey branded debit card that says debt is normal, be weird right on the front. It's not just a piece of plastic with your money attached. It is a declaration. It says you're not buying the lie anymore. You're taking control of your money for real. So this year, forget the gimmicks from the big banks, forget so called rewards that keep you broke and instead partner with a credit union that actually backs you working the baby steps. Go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to get started. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA. All right, next up is Karen in Detroit. Karen, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi.

My daughter is getting married pretty soon and about five years ago her sister got married and my husband and I offered them $20,000 to cover wedding expenses and that worked out well and we've done the same with this daughter. But she and her fiance are very frugal and they would like to just spend 6 or 8,000 on their wedding and have asked us if they could use the rest for other costs, you know, future house down payment or something like that. And great that they're frugal, we appreciate that. But we have some real concerns about not enough food, not enough seating, too small of a. They're cutting corners so much that we.

Feel it will be a regret. It'll be what in the future?

That they will regret it in the future.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, I gotta jump right in here and let's lean in on this. So you and your husband feel this way. Have you brought up those concerns to them specifically?

[Caller]

We have.

[Ken Coleman]

And what was their response?

[Caller]

We're. We believe it is a waste of money to spend so much on one day and our values are more that we just want to save money and we're okay if there's, if it's a real minimalist day. But they do still want to have.

A full dinner and 150 people.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so let's lean in on that one. Did you start walking through with them? How are you going to feed 150 people?

[Caller]

We did.

[Ken Coleman]

And what they say.

[Caller]

And it's okay if we have minimalist food?

[Jade Warshaw]

Like what? Like toast, pizza rolls? Like, what are we saying?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, yeah, like, do they have a real plan is what I'm So I don't keep asking 100 questions. I'm getting at do they have an actual plan? And then the second question is, if they do, you just don't like it. Is that true or false?

[Caller]

They do have an actual plan.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're embarrassed by it.

[Caller]

Well, we are. We're inviting a lot of people.

We're not even sure they'll have chairs.

[Ken Coleman]

Can I just say, and Jade will not, probably will not like this. I just am thinking of past calls. I am ultra conservative on wedding costs. And I say this is a fabulous young couple. And I say it's either a gift or it isn't. And if the money is a gift, when I give someone a gift. All right, let me just use Sam as an example. I know Sam loves shoes. For instance, if I buy Sam a pair of custom Jordans or something or other, and I give them to him and Sam's gonna be like, oh, my gosh, thank you. And I go, hey, now listen, I don't actually want you to wear these outside the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's wild. It's too much.

[Ken Coleman]

But my point is, yes, it's insane, but it's a true example. If I give Sam a gift of shoes, I don't get to tell Sam how and where he wears his shoes. I'm giving him a gift. And I actually think you should honor this request and you need to get over it. And I would start bragging on him. I love the fact that their response to you was our values are this. I love that they actually have a plan. And you know what? As much as you joke about it, it. If they want to offer pizza bagels, do it. Step into it and tell all your friends, we want you to come honor our daughter and whatever, whatever, whatever. And son in law. And you know what? This is the most frugal couple. It's not your normal wedding, but we're so stinking proud of them. And they're going to take what they save on the wedding and they're going to put it to starting their life off and paying off debt and change the narrative because I'm going to tell you, I'm preaching right now. But if they feel what I think they've already felt from you. And you don't change that tune, there's going to be resentment around what could be the most special day of their life. But it's their special. So I'm. That's it. I'm out. That's all I got to say.

[Jade Warshaw]

I concur, my friend.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

I 100% agree because everybody has a picture of what a wedding should be. You gave them. You guys came up with that amount based on what you think a quote good wedding would cost is my guess. And so the hardest part is, I think for the. For the. The parent and for the. The child is when you're not matching. Matching up. And I think everybody's probably experienced it who's been married. The parent wants one thing, the bride or groom wants something else. And ultimately it's the bride or groom's wedding.

[Ken Coleman]

Now I got a hot take. Remember this, Karen? 50% of the wedding attendees don't even care about the wedding. It's dudes. Any dude that's going to that wedding is going because his wife wants him to be there. And we don't care if there's.

[Jade Warshaw]

They probably like the pizza rolls.

[Ken Coleman]

You could hand out peanuts.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Guys don't care. Only people that really care about all that are women at the wedding.

[Caller]

They have to have good food.

[Ken Coleman]

What's that?

[Caller]

Guys have to have good food, don't they?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I mean, they'd be okay with pizza rolls and beer.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you. Yeah. Are you kidding me?

[Jade Warshaw]

This guy in the audience is shaking his head yes.

[Ken Coleman]

He's. No, I'm serious. Like the average guy. The average. I'm trying to. And I'm not trying to be funny. I'm actually being real. The average guy that you will invite to this wedding is only coming because of the social pressure to come. They would much rather send their wife and stay home and watch football. And so they're there because they have to be there. They don't want to dress up.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think most people fall into that camp, let's be honest. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

See, I wasn't going to speak on behalf of women because, I don't know, I assume women love the pageantry and all the things.

[Jade Warshaw]

If it's a best. You know, if it's our maid of honor or like a best friend or a sister. Okay, yeah. A family member. But if it's just Linda from. From church or from work, it's like, I gotta go 100%.

[Ken Coleman]

I gotta get a gift 100%. You know why? The meal makes Me stay at this place. I don't want to be at longer.

[Jade Warshaw]

The cake is the best part. If you have a good cake, you're fine.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't even care. I go buy cake. If I want to buy cake, I can buy cake.

[Jade Warshaw]

People stay for the cake.

[Ken Coleman]

I have made enough money in my life to buy cake whenever I want to. So if I want cake, I'm not staying at a wedding for cake. I'll just go to Kroger and go, hey, Stacy, I just want cake today.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm just saying, when you go to the wedding, the thing that you look forward to is not the ceremony. It's not the. You're looking forward to the cake.

[Ken Coleman]

The only thing that guys look forward to at a wedding is when they get in the car and go back home.

[Jade Warshaw]

So the point here, Karen, is I love this couple.

[Ken Coleman]

They don't need to spend the money on us.

[Jade Warshaw]

They don't need it. And it's okay that they're doing something different. And it's okay that you don't understand it. It's okay that it's not the way you would spend the money. I think that that's just them expressing themselves within their values. And I like Ken's idea to just. Just get with it and be like, this is. Yeah, this is gonna be fun. It's gonna be different.

[Ken Coleman]

And I will throw out something else because I've been so. I know I've been so. Whatever. You could call me plain spoken on this. If you guys want to do something for your closest of friends, then you all go rent yourself a country club room that you can afford. And you do a special fancy something or other for those people. If you really want something that's super impressive, makes you feel good.

[Jade Warshaw]

But the bride and groom probably wouldn't like that. Cause that's not how they get down.

[Ken Coleman]

But Karen didn't call about them. She called about her.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. We've established that. If the tables were turned and I'm just gonna put me in Karen's spot, if I was getting money from my in laws or my parents, and they said, here's 20,000. We said, we're gonna spend it like this. And then they came to me and said, well, then you need to come to our party over here. That's our country club folk. I'd be like, I don't want to do that.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just trying to. Karen. I'm just trying to be nice and spare your feelings. I get it. Trust me, I get it. I really do. I understand your position. But I was just trying with a little bit of levity to go. It's not as big a deal as you think.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it's really not.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what I mean? No one's gonna look down at you. You. You raise.

[Caller]

I'm not worried about people looking down.

[Jade Warshaw]

You just don't want it to be.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you said you were embarrassed. That's why I chose that language.

[Jade Warshaw]

As my friend would say, she calls it budge. When something's like not, not up to standard, I guess, like low budget, like budge, you don't want it to. Yeah, it's a new word.

[Caller]

And it doesn't need to be glorious. Just enough food and enough. And enough basics.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Chairs.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're just trying to keep like basic etiquette. Like etiquette level. Exactly is. Yeah, yeah, I got it. I got it. So you might, you might read the room a little bit and ask questions instead of making statements. Maybe you say, oh, if you do that, will there be seating for everybody? Or are you expecting like, are these standing. Just ask questions and then maybe offer suggestions. Suggestions in the form of a question. I wonder if they had a way where you could have like, you know, and just, just be very light. It's just like you're like the breeze and you mention it and you move on. You don't harp on it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I just think, get a nacho bar. Everybody loves that buffet style. Get after it.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Announcer]

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[Ken Coleman]

10% off up to a $250 value. See store for details. All right, question for you folks. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? We'd love for you to take a quiz to check your progress. Now, this isn't to, you know, slap you on the hand, but it's a good reminder of where you are in the process, where your momentum is. And we humans, we need to track our progress. That's why Dave's baby steps have been so monumentally effective, is because of the nature of the stages and staying with it. So if you take our quick quiz, you can check your progress and get a personalized plan to keep you on track or get you back on track. And it only takes just a few minutes. So head to ramseysolutions.com or click on the link in the show notes to complete the get started assessment. That's what it's called, the get started. If you're new to the show, this is also a great thing to do as well. Now you're chuckling over there.

[Jade Warshaw]

We humans.

[Ken Coleman]

We humans. That was fun.

[Announcer]

It was.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, Good. I like that. I like the free laugh. That's great. Let's go to Jennifer in Asheville, North Carolina. Jennifer, how can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi.

[Caller]

Well, thanks for letting me come on your show and ask this. So we just got our January insurance bill and apparently this year we, or last year, we made too much and we have lost our subsidy. So we are now going to be paying triple what we did the previous year and it's going to come out to be about $29,000 a year. So we're not in any debt. We own our home, everything's paid for. But that's still a lot of money to just check. We're very, we're all blessed. We're a very healthy family. So we go for our checkups and all that. And so we just, we talked about maybe like just putting $29,000 in an account for an emergency. But then there's always like, well, the what if, you know, something substantial happened and worrying about that. So we just kind of wanted to know, like, if there were other options out there because, well, did you shop.

[Jade Warshaw]

It or did it just lapse over and then this is what you were stuck with?

[Caller]

Well, it laps over. But then we shopped within because we kind of wanted to stay with Blue Cross Blue Sh. Because I know our doctors accept that and I'm afraid of going and getting like, out of network and whatnot. But even within, like, that was still the cheapest option for us for our family of five.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Well, I will say when you are independently getting insurance, it's expensive. It is. That's just part of it. And that plus insurance right now in general is expensive. It's gone up substantially. So your options are to try to see what else is out there. But if you've decided that Blue Cross Blue Shield is what I want because it's in our network and it has the doctors we want, then there's part of that that you may have to own. Now let me find out. Can this fit in your budget? Like what does this mean for your budget? That's the biggest question.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, like I said, we own all our homes and our cars and everything and we net about 234 between the two of us here, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So you can afford it?

[Caller]

Yes, it's just, it's.

[Jade Warshaw]

I just like, it's just a pain in the butt.

[Caller]

We don't use it, you know, and I'm glad we don't use it. I'm not saying I hope we spend all that money and make it worth our while, but it just, I just, it bothers me so bad that I feel like we're just flushing that money pretty much down the drain.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, well, you're not. It's both, right? Let's just say both sides of it. It. Our insurance system is broken, right? Healthcare system is broken. So it's way too expensive. There is that and I agree with you on that. But then there's a part of it that insurance, it's insurance. So it's there when you need it. And the right. The hope is that really that you don't really ever need it for its full value. That's the whole point. Right. And that's just kind of an acceptance thing at that point is I kind of just have to accept that until I'm the. At the point of wealth where I can self insure, I need this. And it's a. Here's what I had to do. And I know that this is. It's a big mind thing, but you have to train your mind to say it's a blessing that I can afford to have the insurance that I want and need versus I can't believe I have to pay this. I had to do that. It's like taxes. It's like, I can't believe I have to pay these taxes. But then you go, well, I'm so grateful I have the income. Right. It's that whole push and pull. I'm not saying that it's easy, but it's a good mental flow. Ken, what you got?

[Ken Coleman]

Health Trust Financial, want to mention them? They are partners of the Ramsey show health insurance broker. So what I love about them is they're going to go out and search and try to find the best deal. So I. I will make sure you get connected to them. Christian will connect you, make sure that you get there. But Health Trust Financial is the organization. We believe in them, and I think they are worth calling so that you can shop around and let's see if you can get a better deal. Don't just assume that you're stuck, but.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do know that it is going be other companies.

[Caller]

It wouldn't just be okay.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you've got to be open to.

[Ken Coleman]

Tell them you're a Ramsey show listener. They're going to take really good care of you. Great, Great organization. Yeah. So. And then look at your options. But I know that that's like. And again, I. I heard you. And that's why talking to them, you're going to get to walk through all of the. Will we lose our doctors? Do we have to change? I know how important that is. So they'll take good care of you.

[Caller]

Okay. That's good to know. Well, thank you for reinsuring me that we shouldn't just, like, go out because like I said, we talked about just opening an account and putting the money in that, but then that scares me, so I.

[Jade Warshaw]

Five kids. That's a big risk.

[Caller]

No, well, it's three kids.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, Family of five. Yeah. Let's go.

[Ken Coleman]

Jennifer just had. Just had an episode. Five what?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Unless you know something I don't.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Oh, no, no, no.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know anything.

[Ken Coleman]

No, we don't know anything.

[Jade Warshaw]

I just. And I'm not saying this to be scary. I'm just saying I would not do what you were saying about opening account and just putting money. Because, listen, if somebody runs into you on the street and everybody's in the car, that there's medical bills. Do you see what I'm saying? And $10,000 or $20,000 in an account is not going to help you. It's not going to cover that.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

So. Okay, just what is. What did the Signs used to say? Keep calm and pay your premium. Keep calm and pay your premium.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, thanks for the call.

[Caller]

I just need somebody to talk me down also.

[Ken Coleman]

You're going to be okay. I mean, your first call is hang up and call our friends at Health Trust so they will be a good resource for you. And remember, when you have situations like this, options, options, options. Find every option possible. And it just kind of helps you in this emotional process because it's tough stuff. And I'm so sorry about this. I mean, you guys represent so many Americans. And I'm just going to throw this out there. We the people need to start throwing these bums out, out at the election dates because this is something that Congress can fix. They can fix it and they got to fix it. It's unbelievable. It's real, real, real. I mean health, health care is not a luxury, you know what I mean?

[Jade Warshaw]

It should be just a basic kind of right that we all have.

[Ken Coleman]

And they got, and those companies got plenty of money. So needs to be fixed. We need reform. All right, let's go to Matt in Washington D.C. matt, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So my wife and I are working on baby steps 4, 5 and 6. We're currently contributing 15% of our income to our Roth retirements, our 529s and we're putting any extra income on our mortgage. The more I listen, the more I learn about mutual funds and it being a big topic on the show. So I was thinking of changing how we're paying off our mortgage and only making the minimum payment and open an investment account to deposit all of our extra income in to take advantage of the mutual fund growing at a higher rate of return. And when that mutual fund would hit our mortgage payoff value to take that, to cash that out and do one lump sum payoff. I was just curious of your thoughts on utilizing an investment account like that as a tool to pay off a mortgage. For that, for baby step six.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, there are worse things you could do, that's for sure. And I want you to hear that. I'm going to give you the answer that I think is the best answer. But I want you to hear that what you're talking about is not a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination. Especially if your horizon for doing this is beyond five years. It's not a bad idea. My only caveat for this is sometimes when money is sitting, other things come up, Ken, that might give us a reason to pull it out. So, yeah, instance the idea of if you have the money in your hand every month to double the payment or whatever that amount is going ahead and putting it on your mortgage so that it's done, the action is finished is, is a good thing versus having a stack of money in a brokerage where, I don't know, maybe a trip to Turks and Caicos comes up. Oh, and it just sounds so, so good. And you're like, we do have the 12000 sitting there. It, it's tempting is all I'm saying. Now you do sound like the type of guy who would never be tempted to do to do anything but. Well, I'm just saying, yeah, we just.

[Ken Coleman]

Want you to work the baby steps. The baby steps work and they avoid all of that temptation. So don't try to rework the plan. The plan works for so many people, but you're doing great. Appreciate the call. Good question.

[Announcer]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Jade Warshaw]

Alrighty. Today's question comes from Sarah in New Jersey. She says, my spouse thinks that line items in every dollar should be a sinking fund because if we don't use the money that month, it rolls over the next month for future use. Okay. This includes things such as utilities, insurance, food and spending. I've tried to explain to him that some things can be a sinking fund, such as H. Vac replacement, vacations or savings for a vehicle. But normally monthly bills are not. Can you explain the difference for him? Yes. So that question was a little in the weeds, if you're just listening, but let's kind of break it down. So when you have your budget, obviously the income's at the top and then down at the bottom. In every dollar you put all Your expenses in there, that's everything from groceries to grandma's birthday. Everything you could spend money on goes on in the budget. Now, there are certain things that are not just monthly expenses. There are things that have the ability to happen every once in a while, but be a larger part of your income. Something like car maintenance, Ken, or something like if, you know, yeah, your H VAC needs replacement, you can put those things on the budget and you can do something on the budget that's called a sinking fund. It simply means that every single month, you're putting aside a little in order to have a pool of money there. So it's just like a little mini, mini savings fund. So if I know my H vac is going to cost me $3000 every month, I can put aside $200 on my budget, and it's going to accumulate that money in a little pool for me so that it's there when I need it after a certain number of months has passed past. So it sounds like what her spouse wants to do is make a sinking fund for every single item on the budget, which is a horrible idea because sinking funds are for things that we cannot cash flow in a single month. That's the best way to explain it. I can. In a single month. I can pay the cable bill or people don't have cable anymore. I can pay the YouTube TV bill. Right.

[Ken Coleman]

I enjoy. I enjoy cable.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's Good.

[Ken Coleman]

Sports channel, DirecTV.

[Jade Warshaw]

You keep that. All right. In a single month, Ken can pay his DirecTV bill. I can pay my YouTube TV bill. We don't need to set aside a little each month to pay that. That's very confusing. It creates a lot of issues. So, Sarah, you are correct. And husband, who will remain unnamed. Yes. Let's utilize the sinking funds for large ticket items or large ticket repairs or trips or whatever that we cannot fund in a single month or even really in two single months. Right. That's what sinking funds are for.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep. Love that. All right, let's go to Al, who joins US in Washington, D.C. al, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hello, thanks for taking my call. So the reason I'm calling is I'm married. I'm 31 years old. My wife is 30. We finally thinking about having our first baby this year, hopefully. Pray to God that it happens. So with that, I'm always being kind of financially savvy, always maxed out my tsp, maxed out Roth, ira. My wife is maxing the same thing. So we're in pretty good shape. I'm of the mindset of since we're planning to have a kid, of maybe insuring myself with either term or whole life insurance. I'm more inclined towards whole life insurance. So when I bring it up to my wife, she believes that I may be jumping the gun a little bit. And that's her mindset. The way she explained it to me was we're going to be incurring to another expense. The way I see it is more as an asset and, you know, protection for, you know, her and the baby in case something were to happen. Unfortunately to me. So that's. That's kind of where I'm at. I'm able to cover all expenses of the house. She's currently a nurse, so she. Everything that she earns, she uses it and then she invests into whatever she wants. So I'm able to cover all expenses. I just want to know more of you, what you guys. I guess the mindset that you guys, you know, have on this. I'm trying to see if I could get, you know, insurance on myself more so for protection and hopefully to leave something behind for my kids and grandkids who want to.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I think that, Al, your sentiment is right on. The fact that you're thinking ahead for about your family and you're considering life insurance is exactly right. I think it is a sobering conversation to bring up that I want to have insurance in case, God forbid, something happens to me and your wife's carrying a baby or is going to be carrying a baby anyway. She's in a sensitive state and that can be tough and you know, to kind of of reconcile in your brain. So I would just form it to her like this. I would say, listen, there's going to be people in my life that are dependent on my income. And if something, God forbid, happened to my income, how would you guys live? How would you. It would just give me a lot of peace if I knew that if something happened to me, you would have plenty of money. You would have, you know, and you can talk about what that amount is. I would say 10 times your income that you would have this million dollars or whatever it is setting there in case something happens. That just gives me peace of mind. It's a way that I can love you guys really well. And it's not very expensive. Right. If you can have that conversation with you, with her, I think that she'll understand where you're coming from. But let's talk about the type of insurance, because I think I heard you say that you want whole life and that's Correct.

[Caller]

My mindset is more so I have a couple rental properties I have. I've been investing to the market and all that stuff. My mindset is for protection. And then also, how can we also make it a solid foundation for everything else when, you know, I'm gonna let.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna let Jade walk you through this, but let's be very, very clear. Whole Life is actually not insurance. Okay?

[Caller]

It's not.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not. No, no, no. I want Jay to explain it, but you really gotta understand, because you call this what we teach. You need term life insurance at 10 times your income. That is what's going to protect your family. That's what's going to take care of your wife and kiddo if something happens to you. So I don't know if somebody's selling you on this, but it's not insurance. It's a horrible financial product. That's our position. You want Term Life Zander insurance. You want to call them up and have them walk you through how unbelievably affordable, by the way Term Life is. But I'll let Jay take the thing on the Y here. But that we have never, ever, ever, nor will we ever recommend Whole Life. In fact, if you want to get Dave Ramsey really hacked off, you call and you ask him about Whole Life. You know, it just. It's a bad, bad product.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm not going to get mad at you, Al, but I heard you say. Because I think you have the right underlying thought, I heard you say you want protection, and so let's talk about the best way to get that. So with a Whole Life policy, let's pretend you're paying. I don't know. Let's make round numbers. Let's. And these are going to be low. Let's pretend you're paying 100 bucks a month for a whole life. Well, part of that money is going to go to your premium, and then part of that money is going to go in another fund that's a cash value, okay? And part of that money is being invested at a very low rate of return. And the other part is going towards your death benefit, that if you die, this is the money that your family gets. Well, why split that payment when you can pay. Get term life insurance and just pay for the policy. And then whatever money is left, you can invest on your own because you're into investing at a higher rate of return. So all we're saying is, why give somebody money that they're going to invest poorly for you when you could invest it at a higher rate of return for yourself. That's part one. But part two of this, Al, is if you die, they don't get the cash value. All that cash value that is accumulating at a very, very slow rate of return. If you pass away and that money's sitting there, it's not going to go to your family. The insurance company is going to keep it. And the only way that you could get access to that is if you cashed out the policy, if you got to it early. And at that point you're going to have to pay a bunch of fees. So it's not, it's not a fair product for you. It's almost like having to choose one or the other. And so for that reason, I'd say, hey, just spend half the amount on term life and invest the rest on your own. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

It makes sense. I understand your positions on term life insurance. I was, I guess, with the mindset of seeing it as double. Two perspectives on things, one being protection. And then also.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, protection is not, not I. Mine gives you protection too. So there's no upper hand on the protections. So you gotta, you gotta have another argument because there's no upper hand on whole life for protections. So unless you have a better argument, I'm just telling you the facts.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I mean, Jade's right. And the real argument is, is the stock market's average 12, 11, 12% over the, over the, the lifetime of the stock market versus four and a half percent at most on whole life.

[Jade Warshaw]

You might as well park it in the HYSA at that point.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warriors Warshaw is alongside. We're excited that you're with us. 888-255-2225 is the phone number to jump in. Let's stay in our neighborhood here, Nashville, Tennessee. Zach is joining us now. Zach, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, Ken. Hey, Jade. Thank you for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure. What's going on?

[Caller]

Hey, so my wife and I, I'll try to be brief. We're 32 years old. We have $177,000 in debt. We make about 174,000 combined. About 35, 40,000. That's overtime for me. But we have a tax return and a company bonus coming up. That's around a $14,000 lump sum. We're trying to see if we should take that money and pay down to get rid of our auto loans that we have and get into something cheaper or if we should just use our car loans as a line item and take that money and start doing our debt snowball. And also where neither of us are investing at the moment.

[Jade Warshaw]

Likely, yes, but I want to hear more. So break down the 177,000, tell us what's the cars, and tell us what's everything else.

[Caller]

Sure. So we've got the vehicles between myself and my wife's $44,000. Mine's 21, hers is 22. Roughly $81,000 in student loans. We both are almost finished with our. She finished her bachelor's degree last year, and I'm finishing mine this spring. And then 52,000 in consumer debt, like credit card, line of credit, personal loans, et cetera.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay. And the personal loans, when you break them down, what's the smallest one?

[Caller]

We have some as small as $3,500. And then we have others. I'd say the highest is around $10,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So between 35. Okay, good to know. What are the payments on these cars?

[Caller]

So the payment on my truck is $379, and then her Honda Pilot is 457.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And when they. What did they originate at? I'm trying to see if they were ever too expensive for you. What'd they originate at?

[Caller]

So, I mean, mine was 23,500. I think I could sell mine. They're both used vehicles. I could sell min. Probably what it's worth. She's got about $4,000 in negative equity in hers.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. If you wanted to sell them to go faster, you 100% could. How much is the. How much is the. The bonus and the refund?

[Caller]

The tax return is about $12,000. And then 2000 is a company bonus. And I just updated my W4 to change my tax withholding because obviously that tax refund is a little, little too much.

[Jade Warshaw]

You could do that. I don't. I'm not going to say you have to. They were never like, crazy outside of your range. Maybe you do one and keep the other. That's totally up to you. 14,000, though, could knock out lots of these smaller loans. And I think that would give you probably free up a similar amount of money and give you a bigger boost because there's something about when you've got like 20, a list of 20 debts, and it goes from like 20 to, I don't know, 12. That feels great. So how many of these personal loans do you think you could knock out with the 14,000?

[Caller]

Yeah, I know several of the credit cards. The credit cards and some of the smaller personal loans, I think we take probably five of those off the table, get us some quick wins, and have a little bit of margin there to start tackling the next one. I just want to make sure you guys to want would maybe start way versus because these aren't like crazy high payments that we're paying. And I commute to Nashville for work. I actually live in Cookville, but I commute for work, so having a reliable vehicle is helpful. Yeah, you guys said, hey, get a. Get a beater with a heater. You know, then we would do that. Just was curious kind of what you guys thought.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, yeah, a lot of times is if you can pay off the car in two years or less and it be as part of your snowball, you could keep it as long as it was never too big of a chunk of your income to begin with. As far as it being an item that's going down in value at $174,000 of income to have two $20,000, $23,000 cars, it's not a bad thing. It's just that you went into debt for them.

[Ken Coleman]

I would do it, Ken.

[Jade Warshaw]

Would I? Probably. I would too, if I were in your shoes. But I'm not saying you have to.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we're not telling you have to, But I would tell you that I am of a mindset that I want to knock this stuff out, and I want to do it as fast as I can, and I'm willing to suffer short term so that I can win long term. I'm just curious, which way were you leaning prior to calling?

[Caller]

It's been a 50, 50 split. We've talked about getting debt free for a while. We're longtime listeners.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you mean by 50, 50? What do you mean?

[Caller]

I think me and my wife have had discussions saying, hey, let's just sell them both and use some of this $14,000 to move both these vehicles and get in something cheaper. Let's buckle down. Let's do it. And then the other half of me says, you know, I commute quite a bit an hour each way to Nashville airport, based on my job. And so it's like, you know, if. If I'm trying to make that commute.

[Ken Coleman]

In a. I get that. So you know what I would do? Clear out, get rid of one, keep one. And I. I'm with Jade. I was exactly what I was thinking.

[Jade Warshaw]

Keep the most.

[Caller]

Has the negative equity. Okay, so would you pay the $4,000 and maybe keep my truck for reliability purposes?

[Jade Warshaw]

Or I flip it because you don't want to be spending money that you don't need to right now. The neck, if you keep end up paying off the car, the negative equity is not going to matter.

[Ken Coleman]

This isn't going to be a fun conversation. Probably not a popular proposal. But again, I'm going to tell you exactly. I wish Stacy were here. She'd say exactly what Kim would say. I would say, all right, we're going to. We're not going to sell the one with the negative equity. We're going to sell yours. And you're going to take her. You're going to take what is her car, because you're the one driving along the way every day, and she's going to drive something that's not quite as awesome.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And you're both taking one for the team, just in a different way.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly what I would propose. Now, I don't know how your wife's gonna feel about it, but I'm calling balls and strikes right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ken, you and I are on the same page. Hands in the center.

[Ken Coleman]

And by the way, and to validate. I'm talking about it. This one has done it. She and Sam, when they got their story going, they went down to one car. So I believe in what I'm gonna call shocking the body. I learned this term from a friend of mine in college. It was like when you start a new workout plan, you got to shock the body, right. And you just go in on a completely new routine. And what he was talking about is you get the muscles, all of them, just like what is happening, you start to get real returns. And I believe in that. I believe in it. In most cases, I almost always am a little bit more aggressive because I believe in shocking your system to go, holy cow, we have burned the ships. We are in on this deal. Yeah. So I agree with Jade. I think she's right. I don't want you to hear me saying, you have to do that. I'm just giving you an alternative.

[Jade Warshaw]

It all depends on how on board your wife is with this.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because you have to be. You have to do this in a way that you're both gonna be fully committed. And everyone. It doesn't sound like it, but every once in a while, it's like, if you go too extreme too quickly, the other spouse is too shocked, wants to bail out.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a great point.

[Jade Warshaw]

Point. You know, I agree with.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, she is. Okay, then.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think she'll. She'll like this plan because it's. It's the best of Both worlds. You're still safe on the road. You still have one. That's a hooptie. You still clear out $457 of payments. You still, you know, you're not eating up the whole 14,000 on getting two new cars. You're only, you know, eating up maybe four or five of it. And you're still, you're still knocking out, I don't know, four of these smaller debts. So it's really good.

[Ken Coleman]

Massive momentum. I love that coach. Jade, I feel like you just got off the clipboard. You were drawing up a play in the timeout. I love that. You know, there's, I'm gonna tell you something. Momentum. I don't care what area of your life you need momentum. When you start to experience it, when you haven't had it. Oh, man, it is nice.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, it is.

[Ken Coleman]

It can really set you free. Hey, love the call. You guys are gonna do it. We're rooting for you.

[Announcer]

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you. Like we would find what you [e-mail] insurance.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Of the best things you can do for your finances. To have a really good tax pro in your corner that you can trust. They're going to help advise you on best moves to make for your situation for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes. So go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro that's ramseysolutions.com taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agencies that have been vetted by the Ramsey team. Jesse is up next in North Carolina. Jesse, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I am a single mother to a 10 month old baby and I have $25,000 in debt and a low income. So I wanted to know how I can get ahead and plan for the future. Specifically, my goal is to be debt free and eventually save for a home for my daughter and I.

[Jade Warshaw]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

Tell us what your low income is.

[Caller]

I make 2667, so $2667 after taxes per month.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do?

[Caller]

I work from home for an insurance company doing what I do customer service with providers.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And do you need to work from home just because of the little one?

[Caller]

I would Prefer to. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have family or friends that if you had. Not making you commit to this, but I just want to know is it possible that other people could watch your child?

[Caller]

It is possible, but not consistently.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is the, the 25,000 of debt, is that a one time thing that's that's done and over or is the debt accumulating because you're using a credit card to fill a gap?

[Caller]

I don't use credit cards, but it is accumulating because of interest. It does consist of student loans, some credit card, and then medical bills and personal debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so even with you paying the minimum, obviously it's been accumulating over time is what you're saying?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have any control over your budget or do you feel like you're paycheck to paycheck and not knowing where your money's coming and going?

[Caller]

I've been using the EveryDollar app every month and so that's been helping me to see where everything is going. I kind of just feel stuck right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you at 40 hours a week or is it below?

[Caller]

I'm at 40 hours a week, guaranteed. And I've also been working an extra 10 hours per week with the exception of holidays to work some overtime.

[Ken Coleman]

Does that bump you up from the number that you gave us or is that, did that include your overtime?

[Caller]

So with overtime I can make an extra 100 to $200 per paycheck. So that doesn't include overt.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so we could say, say 2 to $400 if you're getting overtime. In addition.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, Ken can speak to the career side of this because I wonder if there's just, and I believe there is, if there's another type of job you can do from home with your skill set that can just pay a little bit more.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your hourly rate or are you on salary?

[Caller]

I am hourly. I make $21 per hour.

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And the reason I went that line of direction of questions right out of the the answer to your question is and Jade will walk you through where can we cut. Make sure you really got your budget in line. But you're going to need to make some more money. You just are going to. It's going to make you that you're getting out of debt. Now here's the great news. And Jade will give you more, you know, insight on this, but the 25,000 doesn't freak me out for you. However, we do need to get more income and especially if you're going to want to save up money for a down payment on a home. So I'd like to see you getting in that 30, $35 an hour. So can we take. And here are the questions you're going to ask. And I'm going to give you some resources at the end of the call because I want to get Jade involved here real quick and let's see what we can squeeze out of our current income. But you need to adopt the mindset that you can make more money and you should make more money. And so now it's a question of how do you take the current experience you have in customer service and can you jump up the ladder a little bit? For instance, one thing I think you ought to be thinking about is contacting a company like Belay, who's been a partner of the show for a while and involved with other events. I know their owners and they're one of the best agencies in the country for virtual executive assistants. And so the very nature of the job is working from home and virtual. But when you're working for an executive, you're going to make more than $21 an hour. So if you have that kind of administrative skill set, that and some experience there, that's the type of thing that you've got to open up your mind to. And that would change your life dramatically. If I sat you down with Jade and said, hey, great news, Jade, she just went from 21 an hour to 35 an hour.

[Jade Warshaw]

Changes everything. I mean, $500 would change your world right now. Because there's part of this. I agree with Ken. Got to get the income up. I'm guessing your budget is pretty slim as it is.

[Caller]

Am I wrong or most definitely correct?

[Jade Warshaw]

You've cut it down as far as you can go. So there's really, there's two plays here. You can do what Ken said, which is really, really actively seek to find other jobs that pay more. And in the meantime, do your best to do as much overtime as you can. Because if you can keep. If you can keep your minimum payment at just the right amount, right. If you can kind of figure out what that amount is, where it's not aggressively paying the debt down, but it's also not allowing it to creep up anymore, you're kind of just keeping it at bay and staying above water. There's. That's good, right? We don't want the interest to accumulate. But I think if you can do that while looking for a higher paying job, that that's your only choice at this point. Because, you know, income is the magical Elixir to, you know, to fix this problem. Now, if you find yourself in a position, let's just, can you love doing this? And it's so true. If you find yourself in a position where you have either found a job or the job you're making, you're able to, you know, make a little bit more and you're at that point where the 25,000 isn't really accumulating. Maybe it's slowly, slowly going down. There is part of this where you've got a baby and you're in a season of life and sometimes there's seasonalities that limit you and there's just a part of that that you accept and go, well, well, right now this is where I'm at. Maybe when this baby goes, you know, four years from now, your life looks totally different. They're going to kindergarten and life is totally, totally different. So both of those are things to kind of look at and accept and understand. What are your values during the season? Obviously it's to stay home. To what extent and what does it look like for you financially? Is this a season of treading water and not going any deeper in debt or is this a season of trying to pay off debt and you get to decide to that you're looking at a four or five year horizon before this kid goes to school. So that's a lot of time. So you get to decide, is this first year that I'm just focusing on the baby and then when he turns one, that's where I'm going to try to kick it into high gear. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, you've got that to play out.

[Ken Coleman]

How, how connected of a person are you and what I mean by connected, I'm not talking about celebrities or any of that nonsense. And I'm Mr. I'm Mrs. Network. I'm saying, are you pretty connected to friends and family group in your area where you live, or are you kind of just a real small circle?

[Caller]

I am connected to two local churches, right? Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So you know what? I. Jesse, I don't know how aggressive you're being right now, but I think now's the time. I would never bet against you because you're a single mom. I think the single toughest person on the planet is a single mom. I've always had mad respect for you and I think you gotta really believe in yourself and go, no, wait a second, I've got a good job. I mean, you got a good job.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And you found that somehow, so what must you do to find a better version of what you're doing now. And I'm going to put a number out there that might seem like a stretch to you but I want Jade to react to it instantly. Just so you. Because we've not scripted this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Alright?

[Ken Coleman]

If she could make an additional two grand a month, how quickly does she get out of debt and then get through baby step 3 and 3B?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, with the extra money, that's one year. Year. An extra 2,000 bucks a month, that's $24,000 in the year.

[Ken Coleman]

Jesse, are you picking up what she's laying down?

[Caller]

Yeah, I can see that. That would be amazing.

[Ken Coleman]

So now here's the fun exercise and I love what Jade said to you. I don't want you to get off this call and be stressed because you're doing something so important right now which is raising a human being. Okay. And you're managing to kind of get through. Okay. But if you could figure out how I can make an additional two grand a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Month.

[Ken Coleman]

It is life changing. Yes or no?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Now listen, this is where the connections and the network of people come. In you go. Hey, I've been listening to the Ramsey show. I called him. I got a plan. But I need help with the plan. Right? I know how to budget. I'm going to get better at budgeting. But I need better professional opportunities and the right people want to help somebody like you. But this becomes your number one job out outside of your regular job is to find better, better work. Now here's what I want to do to help you, okay? I'm going to give you some information. I'm going to give you my find the work you're wired to do book that has the get clear assessment in it. Take it, let it AI spit out some great opportunities for you. Hang on the line. Good things are coming for you. Jesse. Thank you for calling.

[Jade Warshaw]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey good folks. Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope. We want to see your application. Right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing and creative roles. Check out all our job [e-mail] careers. That's Ramsey Solutions.com careers. On the debt free stage in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions are Colin and Megan. Welcome.

[Caller]

Hello.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I guess you guys are here. Today, do a debt free screen. That's why they have you on that stage. Am I right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

Nothing gets by me. I am on top of the details today.

[Caller]

I see that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir. Where are you guys from?

[Caller]

Destin, Florida.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, that's a nice place to be from. Any chance I can hop a ride back?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. That'd be great. I'll just tell Stacy and the kids I'll be back in a couple days. It's going to be great. Going to see some friends. I'm kidding. Don't worry about that. Nothing to be alarmed about. All right, give us the numbers. How much debt did you pay?

[Caller]

Payoff, $215,514.72.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. We don't want to miss that. Okay, and how long did that take?

[Caller]

23 very long months.

[Ken Coleman]

23 long months. And what did that consist of? What's the debt?

[Caller]

All student loans.

[Ken Coleman]

All student loans. Just you?

[Caller]

Just me.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. And that's it? You didn't have any other debt but student loans?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

What. What was that for?

[Caller]

Pharmacy school. A private pharmacy school.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. So please tell me that means you got some income coming in. Yes, ma'.

[Announcer]

Am.

[Jade Warshaw]

What was the income during this?

[Caller]

Starting at around 164,000 and then ending at 254,000. Whoa.

[Jade Warshaw]

Help the math. Help me with the math. What in the world?

[Caller]

That was a lot of overtime. Like in the month of June, I maybe had six or seven days off in totality. Like, we just. We both went after it.

[Ken Coleman]

What.

[Jade Warshaw]

What were you living off? I want to know? Your monthly budget that just went towards you guys. That did not go towards the day.

[Caller]

It was very little of ourselves. I would drive home for lunch every day. You see ramen noodles almost every day of the week.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my word.

[Ken Coleman]

Now was. Is it the healthier ramen noodles or is it the stuff I ate in college?

[Jade Warshaw]

The orange packet merchant.

[Ken Coleman]

I tell you what.

[Caller]

There would be several days I would warm up ramen noodles, drive 30 minutes to her. Her work, and give her ramen noodles.

For rice and beans.

[Jade Warshaw]

Was.

[Ken Coleman]

You are a good man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my heart.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me tell you something. That's true. If. If Mrs. Coleman would let me eat those, I would eat those.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, they are. They're delicious.

[Ken Coleman]

They are terrible for you. I could. I'm telling you.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you took one for the team. For 23 months, you ate chicken ramen. Well, did you at least varate the flavor a little bit? Did you get the beef?

[Caller]

A little bit all the time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good, good.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, what do Those. Because I think this is good information for a lot of people. What do those go for now? Because back in my day in college, I'm dating myself. You could get 10 of those for a buck.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

What's the cost of these now?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Caller]

We shop at Aldi, like, completely. So that's kind of a.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't even know how much they cost?

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. So tell me now. I'm entrenched now. Tell me a days. Tell me what you eat in a day. Ramen.

[Caller]

That was the ramen. Every now. Every now and then a week would mix it up, do peanut butter sandwiches, but that was it.

[Ken Coleman]

No jelly?

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[Caller]

He's weird. He doesn't eat jelly on his. Peanut butter and jelly.

[Ken Coleman]

I wasn't gonna say that, but since you said it, I do think it's weird.

[Jade Warshaw]

I do.

[Caller]

It saves money, too, though.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's breakfast? Just, like, a bowl of oatmeal. Just oats.

[Caller]

Whose breakfast?

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know.

[Caller]

Her.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow, this is extreme. This is gazelle.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

This is gazelle intensity. Okay. All right, so we're having fun with this, but you guys really, really busted it here. Okay, take us into that. What were some of the emotions that you dealt with during this? Extreme Gazelle intensity. Flavored by ramen.

[Caller]

I would say, like, frustration. Given so much money over that, like, she basically worked for free because, you know, her whole paycheck was just going towards the loans.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So it just had frustration of, like, hey, all this money is really belongs to somebody else. Have we, you know, push through that frustration?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Announcer]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

And for me, it was really fear. Like, I. I was always afraid that I wasn't going to accomplish or we weren't going to accomplish what we set out to do. We didn't have to do it in 23 months. We wanted to. My goal was always to pay it off before he retired from the military. And so that fear and that pressure I actually put on both of us of, what if we don't actually do that? If we did it in five years, that's great. I mean, any amount of time, less than 10 or the rest of our lives is better.

[Ken Coleman]

So take us back 23 months ago. What was the catalytic. Oh, I'm seeing giggles. I like where this might be going. What happened 23 months ago that decided that you guys came together and said, we're going to do this?

[Caller]

So towards the end of her pharmacy school, she was stressed about paying off student loans. And I'm the free spirit, so I'm like, we can pay $1,000 for the rest of our lives and get this out of our way eventually. And then one day, being the free spirit, I impulsively put us in the negatives by buying a pair of headphones. And I was like, there's got to be a better way. And then while I was just wrapping up pharmacy school, I read Total Money Makeover at Barnes and Noble. And then I was like, hey, we can do this. And then it kind of started.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you say you read it at Barnes and Noble? You didn't buy it? You just went there to read it?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I. Listen, I thought the same thing. The dude just admitted didn't buy Dave's book. Just went in there and treated it like it was a library.

[Jade Warshaw]

Life hacks. Life hacks.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, raise your hand if you've done that before.

[Jade Warshaw]

I've done it.

[Ken Coleman]

I've done it. I've done it. I gotta admit it. I love your honesty, my man. Confession's good for the story. Okay, so. So you're reading the book, all right, and you're getting this in your system here. You're going, okay, and you're the free spirit. And you come home one night and tell her, hey, babe, I've been reading this book. Is that how this went down?

[Caller]

Pretty much, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I was petrified. So that fear negative is not great.

[Ken Coleman]

So that fear got you all in?

[Caller]

Yeah.

Oh, 100%. I mean, I've always been like a penny pincher. And I've always, you know, oh, God, where's my next mail coming from kind of person. So, like, when he came to me with this. Yes, absolutely. Say less.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. Wow. Okay, say I have a question. I saw they flashed the photo up and there was a whole wall. And on the wall said our. Why? What was under that? What's there?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I like that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, look at it.

[Caller]

So right before we started doing the journey of, like, paying this off, I bought these thermometers on Amazon. And so we broke down how many. How many loans we had. And you'll see one of them is 62.50. And so every time we would pay off a loan, we would color it in. And so each loan or like, benchmark, because some of them are some pretty hefty loans, we would have a benchmark. So, like, I'm be honest, 75% of it was food motivated. So, okay, we paid off this much. Now let's go get some food.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, yes, I've been saying that. That's what I've been saying. Milestones. I'm sorry. I'm very excited.

[Ken Coleman]

I feel like I should get out of the way. There's a lot. Lot of connection happening. Very good. Give us an example. What would you go get?

[Caller]

Chipotle 100%.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I see. So you reward yourself.

[Jade Warshaw]

You reward yourself.

[Ken Coleman]

Non ramen meal.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it's. It's not enough to throw you off track. It's just enough to keep you going. I like it.

[Ken Coleman]

What about dessert? Did you ever get any dessert?

[Caller]

Ken, please. No, it's just the benchmark.

[Ken Coleman]

I apologize. I ap.

[Jade Warshaw]

They get. Instead of spending 12 cents, they get to spend a dollar and 12 cents.

[Ken Coleman]

After all that ramen, I would need some sugar is all I'm saying.

[Caller]

Black is extra.

[Ken Coleman]

So what would you all say to people that are listening and watching is the key to working the baby steps and getting out of debt? What's the key?

[Caller]

I would say communication. We've been married almost 15 years now, so it's kind of like building a budget for the first time and actually trying to work through that. It can be difficult and kind of showing yourself grace, too, in the beginning, like, hey, we're learning a new, you know, way of life. So trying to show yourself that grand grace.

I would say, like, the whole process has just been very therapeutic as a couple, actually. Like, learning. I mean, I've known him since I was 19, but, like, really learning, like, how he spends, how he saves, it's just. Just do it. I mean, it really is hard. And yes, it matters how much you make, but it really doesn't. It's determination. It's perseverance. Like, say you want to do it, write it down and do it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Boom.

[Caller]

I would say it flies by too. Like, before you know it, you're of it. So. But, you know, we started this, like, $215,000. Like, this only take forever. And as soon as we on the other side, like, that actually flew by, like. Like nothing. And it feels so free now.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you. I think people really want to know this. Have you had ramen since you paid it all off?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

I knew it. I knew it. This guy just likes ramen.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, that is so fantastic. Okay, so how old are you two?

[Caller]

I'll be 37 this year, and I'll.

Be 35 and just July.

[Ken Coleman]

So now how has this changed your perspective about your future now being debt free?

[Caller]

Oh, it feels amazing. Like, I haven't. I. Again, being free, being, like, do what you want, go where you want, and not have, like, just the freedom. Like, hey, I can move it. You Know, a different career. If I want to, I can. You know, where it may be. Just we have that freedom in life to just, you know, move forward.

And it's like a level of stability that I never had growing up. Something that I've craved my entire life. And like, we. We got that.

[Ken Coleman]

We have you. Stability, peace. Are you still in the military, sir?

[Caller]

You, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

What. What branch?

[Caller]

Army.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, thank you for serving our country. You're a great American.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Absolutely. Well, there it is. Another young couple. Isn't it fun just to see, like, a complete future? You guys are going to be millionaires. You're going to have all that stability, and you earned it. All right, you guys ready? Okay, here we go. We got Colin and Megan from Destin, Florida. They paid off 215,000. 6. Some some some some some. In 23 months, making 164,000 to 254,000. Colin, Megan, you inspire us all. Count us down. Let's hear your debt free scream.

[Announcer]

Three.

[Caller]

Three, two, one.

[Jade Warshaw]

We're debt free.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, you are. But not ramen free. Big distinction.

[Jade Warshaw]

Never that.

[Ken Coleman]

So fun, isn't it?

[Jade Warshaw]

Excellent.

[Ken Coleman]

Major intensity. They put a beautiful picture on what gazelle intensity looks like, folks. It's worth it. You heard it from them.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, guys, what's up? It's Jade, and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promise and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm gonna save money or I'm gonna get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win. And our everydollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, everydollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. Year it's like having me in your pocket, helping you stay on track all year long. So don't just wish your money works out. You can be the one to actually make it happen this year. Download the everydollar budget app and get started right now for free.

[Ken Coleman]

Our scripture of the day, Romans 13, verse 7. Give to everyone what you owe them. If you owe taxes, pay taxes. If revenue, then revenue. If respect, then respect. If honor, then honor. And our quote of the day as we celebrate Dr. Martin Luther King is from Dr. Martin Luther King. The time is always right to do what is right.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's good.

[Ken Coleman]

Simple but profound.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

The man had a way with words.

[Jade Warshaw]

He did.

[Ken Coleman]

I love it. All right, let's go to Mike in California. Mike, how can we help?

[Caller]

I've been on the Dave Ramsey program for a while. Me and the wife, we got all of our bills paid off. We're able to buy a couple of cars, cash. We're at the point of wanting to pay our house off, but I was married prior, and I got put in a modification because I was gonna let the house go. So there's a $50,000 balloon payment at the end of the loan, and we're about 10 and a half years left, and that's just on the loan. And then I have a $50,000 balloon payment.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can you refinance out of that?

[Caller]

Well, the problem is I got a 2% interest. Nobody's going to touch that, I'm saying, so go ahead.

[Jade Warshaw]

You can't refinance that loan. You can't call up Churchill and say, hey, I need to refinance this thing.

[Caller]

Yeah, but it's going to make the payment go up. And right now I only have 10 years, 10 and a half years left. Besides the balloon. I don't know if I should just start hitting the balloon payment, you know, every month we start. Because I can start paying on it. It's interest free, the balloon payment. There's no interest on it. Should I start trying to hit that thing or. I mean, I thought about refi in the loan, which I would love to, because my ex wife's name is on the loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

An even better reason.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know.

She's.

She's not on the beat, though. That's my new wife, is all. We've already. She signed the house over to me, all that. But the loan, you know, is. Is the issue.

[Jade Warshaw]

If I, If I can understand this. And I, I. You got me. When you hit. When you mentioned balloon, my mind zoomed out. So there might be more details that you want to fill me in on later, but from what I hear is an old house that I had with an ex wife that I'm living in now with my new wife that has a balloon payment that's going to be due of $50,000. And even though it has a fine interest rate of 2.5 or 2 PER. I don't remember what you said. 2% now.

[Caller]

2%. 2%. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

For me, there's. This is not good. In my mind, I go, if I'm your new wife, I don't want to live in your ex Wife's house. And I certainly don't want to live in it with a balloon payment at the end that we're going to be due for in the next however long. That's where my brain says, why would you not. And, and it's got your ex wife's name on it, so why would you not not either, sell this house? I would sell it now that I see that your ex wife is even on it, because it's not fair for her to be attached to that either.

[Caller]

Do you want to know why?

[Jade Warshaw]

Why?

[Caller]

Because my, My new wife loves the house.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, boy.

[Caller]

She doesn't.

[Jade Warshaw]

But your ex wife is on it.

[Caller]

I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

And, and that's not fair to her.

[Caller]

I know it ain't. I agree with you. 100.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you've got it. It doesn't. At that point, it doesn't matter. At that point, it doesn't matter. If you love the house, there's houses out there she can love. But your financial life is going to be tied to your ex wife for life if you keep this home for life. That's not fair to her. If she tries.

[Caller]

No, no. Once the house is paid, if we pay it off in 10 years, she'll be gone.

[Jade Warshaw]

10 years is a long time, my guy. That's a long time to be tied in.

[Caller]

Yeah, but if we, if we do, if we leave now and try to buy another house, our payment. Our payment's only fourteen hundred dollars a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know that. That. I understand that.

[Caller]

So if I, If I do this, our payment's going to go over double, if not higher.

[Jade Warshaw]

It will.

[Caller]

And then I'm going to have. Yeah, I'm going to have to get a second job in order to pay for.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, that's not true. So here's, here's what's true. I'm going to. I'm going to lay out what's true and then we'll talk about it. We could talk. The truth is you're divorced from her. That's true. The truth.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. That's a truth.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's the truth. And you're remarried. That's true. Other thing that's true is, is your finances should not be connected to your ex wife for any longer than necessary. Fair enough.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's also true is there is a $50,000 balloon payment here. Yeah. Okay. These are all truths. What we'll call in, in, in the con category, the only pro is your wife likes the house and there's a 2% mortgage. That's really the only pro. So there's Part of this that you have to accept because of the divorce. And I'm not saying it's, it's wrong or right. I'm just saying because of the divorce, your housing situation is going to change. And I think you just have to accept that you can't keep it as it was because a major thing has been upended and so there's change there. And to say, hey, well, we can pay it off in 10 years. Years, and have that link to her for 10 years is unfair. It's to everybody. Do you see what I'm saying? Because if something happened, if anything happens that changes in your life, that causes you to not be able to afford this house, that causes that balloon to be an issue, it's going to affect her majorly.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's also going to affect you, Mike. Like you're talking about getting another job, all these things. And the only thing, by the way, I'm, I'm just letting Jade roll here. This is fantastic. I, But I agree with her, by the way. I agree with her.

[Jade Warshaw]

Her.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm going to take what Jade said and I want to put this back to you and go after hearing everything Jade said, which by the way, I heard you categorically go. I agree, I agree. I agree. If I'm hearing you and I'm hearing Jade, and I am the only reason you're considering this is because your current wife likes this house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And it's in our budget as far as being able to afford.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, but she already knocked that one down.

[Caller]

Live the way we want to live.

[Ken Coleman]

Like, well, but no, you can live in other places. No, no, no, no. She knocked that down. You can live in other places. The idea that this is the only place where you can live within affordability is a myth.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's not affordability. You have a fifty thousand dollar balloon.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. It's not affordable and it requires you to get another job just to afford it. So you've created. It's like after all that, you're still stuck in this, this thing. And I guess what I'm trying to help you see as a friend, Mike, is I think this is because you would rather be miserable than be un. No, no, you didn't let me finish. You'd rather be miserable instead of be uncomfortable and telling your wife, we're getting out of this, we're changing our life. You don't want to have to tell her that. Tell me if I'm wrong.

[Caller]

No, it. Honestly, we know that you're wrong.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Because we. Here's What Our. Our plan, what we want? Wanted. We wanted to sell this house and meet us retire up by Cambria up in Northern Cal. You know where? Cambria?

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

I don't know if you. Up north so we. Yeah, up north so we. Because we love it up there. That's. She loves it. But you know, her daughter's here with the grandbaby, her son lives here, so those things are in factor. My two kids are out of state. I got four grandchildren with them.

[Ken Coleman]

So did your wife. Did your wife change your mind completely on the move up north?

[Caller]

No, we. The reason why we decided maybe not is because of family and stuff, you know, like being close.

[Ken Coleman]

How far? How far? Grandbaby, I. I totally get that. Never going to dismiss that. But how far away are we talking about?

[Caller]

It's probably five and a half, six hour drive.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that still has no bearing on whether or not because it's like, okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm trying to make. Get it in the mix to go. That's why you should sell this house. Because they already had another plan.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, but even if you've decided that's no longer the plan. If it is or it isn't.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. I'm trying to make this hard decision easier. Well, I'm with Jade on this.

[Caller]

You know what? She's the one that got me in on the Dave Ramsey thing because I was the opposite, okay. When it came to bills. I wanted to. If we didn't have it, let's go get it. I want to enjoy life. But when I met this woman here, she turned me around. Down. Well, in my mind.

[Ken Coleman]

Tell her you called us today and we said no to the balloon payment.

[Jade Warshaw]

I just think you're. You're on a. You're on a tight rope without a net. You. You're just walking this thing and you're hoping you get to the other side. It's a ten year journey with a fifty thousand dollar barricade in the middle. An extra job for you and an ex wife.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yapping about, oh, having this debt around her neck.

[Caller]

I don't, I don't. I don't hear hear from her. Yeah, no, I mean I haven't for years. We've been married for 10 going on 10 years now.

[Jade Warshaw]

You can do what you want to do.

[Ken Coleman]

Mike, we have spoken. And you said your wife introduced you to us and now you called us. You do what you want to do, brother. But enjoy that second job, man. Enjoy that. And that stress, Well, I hate to do that to him, but that's the facts.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's the fact.

[Ken Coleman]

That's how we see it. Hey folks, remember this. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace and has to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.