You Don’t Have to Retire Broke—Time Changes Everything

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show - "You Don’t Have to Retire Broke—Time Changes Everything"

Date: June 5, 2026
Hosts: Dave Ramsey and George Kamel
Podcast Network: Ramsey Network

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Episode Theme & Purpose

In this episode, Dave Ramsey and co-host George Kamel tackle a variety of real-life financial questions from callers, focusing on the importance of intentionality, communication, and discipline in building wealth and achieving financial peace. The episode explores the roots of common money issues—such as spending habits, relationship conflict, investing fears, and life transitions—and offers straight-talking, practical advice for listeners at every stage of their financial journey. Whether callers are struggling with debt, planning for retirement, or navigating emotional family dynamics, the show reinforces Ramsey’s core message: No matter your mistakes or late start, you can take control and transform your financial future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dealing with Financial Incompatibility in Relationships

(Caller: John in Fresno) [01:02–09:18]

• John is debt-free and has significant savings, but his girlfriend of 4 years struggles with overspending and low income.
• The hosts stress that financial habits and emotional maturity are key indicators of marital viability.
• Quote:

  "The number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. It's not just different personalities, it's different values."
  —Dave Ramsey [03:50]

• Advice: Don’t enable unhealthy patterns or merge lives further (like moving or marrying) without alignment on money. Maturity and shared vision are non-negotiable.

2. Starting Late on Retirement & Wealth-Building

(Caller: Mary in Pittsburgh) [10:36–16:56]

• Mary, 66, recently got out of debt but has minimal retirement savings. She hopes to buy a home but feels behind.
• Dave recommends a modest home, max savings toward retirement, and a realistic 10-year hardworking plan—even those late to the game can achieve stability if they act intentionally now.
• Quote:

  "Whatever you have done for the first 66 years, you can't do any of that. … You have got to spend the next 10 years doing exactly the right things."
  —Dave Ramsey [14:59]

• Message to young listeners: The power of compound growth—start investing early for exponential returns.

3. Marriage, Control & Combining Finances

(Caller: Stephanie, Omaha) [21:50–30:22]

• Stephanie and her husband keep money separate due to his belief she is financially irresponsible. She will soon leave her job to stay home with their second child.
• Dave calls out the unhealthy power dynamic and insists on equality in marriage, emphasizing the importance of joint decisions and financial transparency.
• Quote:

  "You don't earn your vote in the house based on income or age. You both get a vote the day you say 'I do.' Period."
  —Dave Ramsey [24:48]

• Strong recommendation for marriage counseling and unity of finances for health and happiness.

4. Mobile Homes, Real Estate, and Depreciating Assets

(Caller: Laura, Sacramento) [34:16–41:26]

• Laura, already debt-free and owning a rental, contemplates a mobile home for her rural land to avoid costly fire insurance.
• The hosts warn against sinking cash into depreciating assets (like mobile homes), highlighting property appreciation’s value for long-term wealth.
• Quote:

  "It's a car you sleep in. … If it has wheels, it’s going to go down in value."
  —Dave Ramsey [37:05]

5. Should We Accept a Free Ranch Lease to Follow A Dream?

(Caller: Ashley, Bend, OR) [54:48–64:32]

• Offered to lease (for free) a massive ranch for her horse business, at the cost of moving away from jobs, family, and property ownership.
• Dave recommends limiting the experiment to 5 years, using the opportunity to grow the business but ultimately focusing on ownership and long-term autonomy.
• Highlights the risks of building one’s life on someone else's generosity or unpredictable arrangements.

6. Quitting High-Paying Work for Family & Adventure

(Caller: James, Baltimore) [75:51–84:59]

• James and wife left lucrative jobs, moved to Greece, now working less. Wonders if it was wise, amid family criticism.
• Despite still earning $200k/year from part-time remote work and having $2.5M+ saved, he feels “lazy.”
• Key insight: Guilt can come from others’ paradigms; it’s valid to realign work with life priorities after years of hustling—as long as you remain intentional.
• Quote:

  "You just went from 180 to 55. That's all you did. … But you're not shiftless or lazy. This is a sabbatical."
  —Dave Ramsey [82:18]

7. Debt Payoff Discipline vs. HELOC Temptation

(Caller: Sammy, Chicago) [85:53–90:33]

• Sammy wants to consolidate $50,000 in debt with a home equity line (HELOC) to make lower payments.
• Dave pushes for discipline and lifestyle cuts, not new loans. Emphasizes permanent change happens through short-term sacrifice—not by rearranging debt.
• Quote:

  "I want you to live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else."
  —Dave Ramsey [88:55]

8. Investing Fears & Keeping Cash in Checking

(Caller: Jonathan, Miami) [91:07–94:30]

• With $1.4M in checking and mortgage debt, Jonathan is paralyzed by investment fears.
• Dave gently urges him to pay off his house and then start learning about investments, showing how much wealth he’s lost out on by not acting.
• Quote:

  "You're wise not to invest it until you get comfortable … but by not understanding investing, you missed out on the last three of the best years ever. Your money would have doubled ..."
  —Dave Ramsey [93:17]

9. Robo-Advisors & Intentionality in Investing

(Listener’s Email: Cameron, WI) [95:47–103:19]

• George and Dave discourage defaulting to robo-advisors or target-date funds, emphasizing the power of intentional and informed investing.
• Quote:

  "Winning at anything is a series of intentional acts."
  —Dave Ramsey [101:05]

10. Wedding Spending Pressure & Family Expectations

(Caller: Sarah, Louisville) [118:13–125:46]

• Sarah and her fiancé plan a no-frills courthouse wedding and face pressure from both families to uphold traditions.
• Dave urges her to clearly communicate her choices, and not read too much into others’ motives.
• Quote:

  "Unless someone is financing their personal wishes, they don’t get a vote."
  —Dave Ramsey [121:48]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On relationships & money:

  "Children do what feels good. Adults devise a plan and follow it." —Dave Ramsey [18:35]

• On investing early:

  "If you're 20 years old and you invest a dollar, there's a 73x return. … Compound growth is going to do the heavy lifting. …Time is the magic ingredient in wealth building."
  —George Kamel [17:16/19:19]

• On separate finances in marriage:

  "You're not his daughter... You're not subpar. You're not substandard ... You're his wife." —Dave Ramsey [24:48/27:39]

• On mobile homes:

  "It's a car you sleep in... If it has wheels, it goes down in value." —Dave Ramsey [37:05]

• On “being dumb” with money:

  "There's not a single instance... that what you're doing [rewards credit cards] causes you to build wealth. None." —Dave Ramsey [46:10]

• On intentionality:

  "You have to be intentional about your investing, your marriage, your health. … No Robo, no George, no Dave, no Rachel ... will make you wealthy. It’s your intentional acts." —Dave Ramsey [101:05/103:07]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:02–09:18]: John & girlfriend: relationship and overspending challenges
• [10:36–16:56]: Mary: late start to retirement & hope for the future
• [21:50–30:22]: Stephanie: marriage, power imbalance, separate finances
• [34:16–41:26]: Laura: mobile home, real estate value, investment philosophy
• [54:48–64:32]: Ashley: rural ranch lease, following dreams vs. long-term planning
• [75:51–84:59]: James: quitting high-paying work, feeling guilty, redefining "retirement"
• [85:53–90:33]: Sammy: debt payoff vs. consolidation via HELOC
• [91:07–94:30]: Jonathan: investing paralysis, "money under the pillow"
• [95:47–103:19]: Robo-advisors, intentional investing, wealth-building psychology
• [118:13–125:46]: Sarah: wedding costs, communicating with family, sticking to values

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Overall Tone & Style

• Direct and no-nonsense: Dave Ramsey tells hard truths while remaining compassionate.
• Empowering: Emphasizes that change is possible at any stage if you act intentionally.
• Humorous and relatable: Banter with co-host, analogies, personal stories, and frequent self-deprecating jokes.
• Practical: Real-world examples, step-by-step recommendations, and actionable advice.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Financial peace requires intentionality, discipline, and unity—especially with loved ones.
• Start investing early—even small amounts compound massively over time.
• Strong marriages are built on transparency, shared goals, and equal partnership.
• Don’t look for shortcuts (rewards, HELOCs, robo-advisors)—the proven path to wealth is well-trodden and clear.
• Embrace new chapters with awareness and clarity, not just emotion or fear.
• Communicate openly about values, especially when money and relationships intersect.

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"You don’t have to retire broke. Time changes everything—but only if you act." —Dave Ramsey

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For more resources, investment guidance, or budgeting tools: Visit www.ramseysolutions.com

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

This is an ad for BetterHelp. The time to fix your budget is before you're in debt and the time to deal with stress is before it becomes a crisis. Talking to someone can help you find a path forward. Go to betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off. Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free. Is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us America. George Camel, Ramsey personality number one best selling author. He's my co host. Today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. It's a free call and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. John is in Fresno. Hey John, what's up in your world?

[Caller Female]

Hey.

[Caller Male]

I'm a huge fan of both of you guys. So I'm, I'm debt free. I'm self employed. I've got six figures in the bank. But by contrast, my girlfriend I've been with for four years has really, really bad spending habits. It's almost like she doesn't know the difference between what she needs and what she wants. And I'm trying to get her on board with some goals or some budgeting, but it's just really hard. You know, she's just overspending on a whole bunch of stuff and we're trying to move and leave California and I just don't know how to move forward or what's, you know, what to really do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. How old is she?

[Caller Male]

She is, she's about to be 32.

[Dave Ramsey]

What'd she make? How much income?

[Caller Male]

Well, she would make about 16 to 1800amonth. But she gives up a lot of her hours and she doesn't drive, so there's rideshare. She's buying a lot of food at work instead of, instead of cooking or packing something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that wasn't, I wasn't asking about her food. I was asking about her work.

[George Kamel]

Does she work full time or she doing side notes?

[Dave Ramsey]

What?

[Caller Male]

No, I'm just saying that's where, that's where a lot of the money goes. And then she doesn't have enough to pay for. She doesn't work.

[George Kamel]

1600 bucks a month in California is poverty.

[Caller Male]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so where, how did she exist before you?

[Caller Male]

She lived with either friends or family, but she used to walk to work and I guess, I guess it's never really been a lot of income for her.

[George Kamel]

You Guys live together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they're talking about moving away together.

[George Kamel]

So you've been. Have you been subsidizing some of this behavior? Get away with it? Is that part of the issue?

[Caller Male]

A little bit. And I was going to say I really don't want to enable further, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is sticky, dude. It's really sticky. Okay, so how old are you?

[Caller Male]

33.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller Male]

I'm doing pretty good. I. I make. So I am like a side gig guy, but I make about four to five a month. But I got. I got a lot of bills. I drive.

[Dave Ramsey]

Talk about moving to where?

[Caller Male]

Nevada.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller Male]

No state income tax. I can actually. I can actually put a down payment on a condo, start building some equity.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know, affordable real estate and less income and no income tax. Okay. Those are good reasons.

[Caller Male]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[Caller Male]

Also not a big fan of California for other reasons.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So the. The thing we know is the data tells us the number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. These are people that are on two completely different pages. Not different personality styles, but different pages, different vow use completely. And so they spend their married life driving each other crazy. You being a tight wad that crosses every T and dots every I, and doesn't come out of the cave except on triple coupon Thursday. And her spending like she's in freaking Congress. Never the twain shall meet, Right?

[Caller Male]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, I mean, I don't want her to become a super tightwad nerd like you. Although I think you're awesome, because I'm kind of that way. But I do want. She's a free spirit. I do want her to maintain a free spirit. But in order to qualify as wife material, she would have to be more emotionally mature. And so far, this lady does just enough to get by. Thank God it's Friday. Oh, God, it's Monday. Who can help me out?

[Caller Male]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you've kind of got a little bit further vision. You're gonna go a few places. She's not gonna get to go unless she goes with you. And as long as she is engaged in this behavior and you are in this relationship, you are not going to be happy. Am I wrong?

[Caller Male]

Don't think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Is there anything you can say or do that you think would actually change her behavior?

[Caller Male]

I don't know. That's ultimately what I've been trying to figure out. I mean, I've been trying to give her some tips, you know, like, you know, stop.

[George Kamel]

It was a trick question. You can't change her. And here's the hard truth. She's either gonna become emotionally mature while you're together, or it's gonna take the breakup for her to get her act together. And right now it feels like the option is she's gonna have to learn it the hard way.

[Dave Ramsey]

If we switched gears and you said you had a daughter and she was dating a guy who spent everything he made, didn't work much, and was out of control with his impulses, you would look at your daughter and say, run away quickly, wouldn't you?

[Caller Male]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so I'm going to tell you that. Except I don't want to be quite that brutal, but I am saying don't marry this. Don't marry this. You're going to have a long life. It'll be miserable. And don't live together and don't move to Nevada together. So you guys need to sit down and, you know, like the teenagers used to say, define the relationship. Okay. If this is going towards marriage, then we are going to have to both be grownups. And that's going to require a reasonable level of spending control on your part where you still enjoy life. Not nerdy like me, but you still enjoy life, but you control your spending. And a reasonable level of work ethic on your part where you actually freaking work and work while you're at work and stuff like that. And work is not an excuse to eat. Work's an excuse to work. And so we're gonna walk through those kinds of things. And the lady you've described has a long path to get to where I need her to be before I would wanna marry her. And don't move to Nevada with somebody and shack up with them that you're not gonna marry. That's just weird sex.

[Caller Male]

Well, no, that wasn't. The plan was to eventually marry if it could work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Caller Male]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So if you're going to get. If you're going to move to Nevada together, get married. But don't get married until.

[George Kamel]

I wouldn't make the move until you figure this out.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you can move. And then you continue the relationship long distance and just watch the behavior and say, honey, this is how I'm going to handle my life. You're going to be miserable with me because this is how I do things. And I'm going to be miserable with you because this is how I do things. And maybe we're not compatible, but let's talk about it. And do you want to work on that part of your life? And if you do, let's talk about it and we can continue forward. And this is kind of turning a romance into a bit of a formula. But dude, it's a formula. I heard an old man tell me one time, he said, if you marry a woman that loves to spend money, you better enjoy working.

[George Kamel]

That's a good line right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of course, the shoe could be on the other foot too, by the way. We can flip that over. If dude has an addiction to bass boats, you better enjoy both of you working. Because you're not going to be a stay at home mom. Because he's buying ninety thousand dollar bass boats to catch a bass that keeps out running him. Because that one has to be faster. You know, I gotta upgrade. I gotta upgrade.

[George Kamel]

That's a tough one. You know, marriage is hard, but making your life even harder, knowingly marrying someone, yeah, that's tough. You want, you want to marry someone who's going to make your life easier.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, John, we're not just bearers of tidings of good news today. I'm sorry, but, but I, you know, I would sit down with her. Maybe you guys enter some couples counseling and begin to talk through these things. But the deal is, if this behavior pattern continues, neither one of you are going to enjoy it.

[George Kamel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Mary is in Pittsburgh. There she is. Hey, Mary's in Pittsburgh. What's up, Mary?

[Caller Female]

Hi. Hi, guys.

I'm so excited to have you. Have me Today, I really appreciate your show. You taught me so much. I learned so much about finances. I'm 66 years old. We've recently paid off all our debt. We paid off two cars in five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller Female]

$80,000.

And I.

We only have 10,000 in our emergency fund and about 10,000 in my 401k. And he's a 1099. He has nothing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay. Does either of you have a pension coming in?

[Caller Female]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller Female]

No, we're renting. We have a low rent of 1900.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do y' all make? What's your income?

[Caller Female]

It's about 125.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What do y' all do?

[Caller Female]

I work for a nursing home. Recent. It's a recent job and he is an Isaac.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Well, the good news is you have no debt. Do you have no debt on your house as well?

[Caller Female]

We're renting.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're renting. Okay.

[Caller Female]

Yeah, we've been renting for 10 years and I wanted to buy a house now that we are free, but I don't know. I have no money.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you don't. So. Wow. Okay. Number, number one, I think the two of you need to look at each other and say, we're going to be working a while.

[Caller Female]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're not going to be like retiring next week and we're going to be working a lot because we have some catching up to do. We're behind. And so, you know, I would think about getting a very, very modest house or condo that I put on a 15 year or even a 10 year fixed rate mortgage. Very modest. And that's after you save up a good down payment. Meanwhile, I would start putting at least 15% of your income away for retirement. That's $15,000 a year. That's not much. In 10 years. That's only 150,000. And that will only become about 350 or 400,000 by the 10 year mark, which makes you 76 years old with a couple of hundred thousand dollars and a paid for house. If you pay the house off in 10 years because you buy very modestly.

[Caller Female]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's 10 years of hard work and you know, you can end up with a couple of hundred, two, three hundred thousand dollars and a paid for house. And if you just do those two things. But again, the house has to be super modest.

[Caller Female]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, like you're not proud of it, but it is yours.

[Caller Female]

Right? I love it. There's hope.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller Female]

I'm so happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, but putting 15% of your income away can both of you agree to do that and work 10 years?

[Caller Female]

Oh yeah, definitely. We're both hard workers. I picked up this part time job. I'm making like 40,000 here. I work like 29 hours a week, but I get the Social Security. And then August, Dave, I get to make as much as I want for Social Security not to take money out. So I'm excited for August. I'm going full time. Dave, thanks from listening to you guys pushing us to do more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why don't you sit down with your smartvestor pro and set up a couple of Roth IRAs and anything else you can come up with to set aside and let's get that going into some good growth stock mutual funds and then start chunking money aside as fast as you can for a big down payment on a small house.

[Caller Female]

All right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And, but let's, you know, lay it all out to where in 10 years you're with a paid for house and 10 years of 15,000, you're going to be putting in more than that. You're going to be putting in about 25,000. So 10 years would be 250,000 plus. What would that grow to?

[George Kamel]

You have crunched it for 10 years. If they invest their 15% with no increase in income, they'll be at about 350k at 76. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a paid for house and Social Security coming in, you'll be okay.

[George Kamel]

It's modest. Yeah. It's not like lavish, but you'll circle and not be eating rice and beans forever.

[Caller Male]

Hopefully.

[Dave Ramsey]

But here's the trick, Mary. Whatever you have done for the first 66 years, you can't do any of that. All of that was wrong. It got you to this point. So you have got to spend the next 10 years doing exactly the right things or you're going to be in a real mess. So I mean you gotta, you gotta really treat this like this is a serious health diagnosis. We've gotta get with it and you gotta lean into this because that's a, that's a tough 10 years. From 76 or 66 to 76. Ouch. Hey guys, if you're 19 years old or 22 years old, that lady calling was sent as a message to you from God. $100 a month from age 25 to age 65. $100 is 1,176,000 in your mutual fund when you're age 25. Did you hear that? It's tougher to wait till 66 to start. 22 year old. Are you hearing me? 19 year old. Are you hearing me, 24 year old that loves to go to happy hour, loves fine dining and wants to lease a freaking Tesla. Are you hearing me? This is. She was sent that call, that lady calling that sweet lady and she's precious. Sweet lady. Calling was a message to you if you're in your 20s. Gen Z, she, she, she was sent to you today, don't you think, George?

[George Kamel]

Yeah, well, you know, I've actually run the numbers on this and it's fascinating to see what a dollar is worth at 20 invested versus 55 or 60. And the truth is this. If you're 20 years old and you invest a dollar, there's a 73x return. That dollar turns into $73 at 65. But when you invest that same dollar at 55, it's maybe worth 4x instead of 70x instead of $73. You got $4 exactly. That's the actual compound growth math.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lee Grimoli to convince, put 100,000 of those on it. Yeah, okay, so 100,000 is 7.3 million, right?

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or 100,000 is 400,000.

[George Kamel]

That's the math.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a difference.

[George Kamel]

That's the wild math behind it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you're young, Holy gramoly.

[George Kamel]

So here's the message. If you're young, you're thinking, well, I'll save later, let me enjoy my 20s and I'll save later when I'm in my 40s, 50s, 60s. Later never comes, unfortunately, because life happens, life gets in the way. When you're young, man, you got some income coming in. Put it away, I got some. You can still enjoy life, but invest some.

[Dave Ramsey]

I graduated from college with a finance degree and no one ever showed me what you just outlined.

[George Kamel]

Just compound growth.

[Dave Ramsey]

The power of compound interest. Edison called it the eighth wonder of the world. The power of compound interest. And the secret of that is the earlier you start, the more you have. And so it doesn't even require big sacrifice, it just requires intentionality.

[George Kamel]

If you start early, it's really not about the income or the amount you put away.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the intentionality.

[George Kamel]

It's the intentionality because you don't need to put as much away when you're 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honestly, the ability to delay pleasure is one of the big psychological insights to someone that are indicators of someone who is emotionally mature, emotionally. Children do what feels good. Adults devise a plan and follow it. And sometimes children are 56 and sometimes they're 16. Sometimes adults are 56 and sometimes they're 16. I mean, we talked to some 19 year olds on here that are way more mature than some of the 52

[George Kamel]

year olds and way wealthier.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well on their way because it's only going to take a dollar. Goodness. 100,000 bucks becomes 7.3 million.

[George Kamel]

It's pretty wild.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's a one time dollar or monthly dollar.

[George Kamel]

I mean that's for every dollar you put in. You're going to get 73 out in retirement. That's the craziest part. So I'm telling you, if you're 20 and you're listening or 25 or even 30, you got time on your side. Compound growth is going to do the heavy lifting. And as you get older, it can't lift as much because it needs time. Time is the magic ingredient in wealth building.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The shorter the time frame, the more of the money that you put in is what's going to be their contributions. Your contribution is going to be equal to or more than the growth.

[George Kamel]

If you're 20 or 30. 90% plus is compound growth of what

[Dave Ramsey]

you're going to end up with is going to be growth that you did nothing for.

[George Kamel]

You don't need to save up a million dollars to have a million intentionality.

[Caller Male]

Wow. Powerful. Foreign.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Stephanie is in Omaha, Nebraska. Hi, Stephanie, how are you?

[Caller Female]

I'm good.

How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller Female]

Okay, so I am calling today because I guess I have a little bit of concerns. Me and my husband have been married going on three years and we're expecting our second child this year. Our finances are completely separate and we decided this once this baby's here that would be staying home. So I'm just kind of concerned. Since our finances have always been so separate, obviously we have things that we need to figure out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Boy, you are beating around the bush in a Nebraska kind of way. What the flip is there? What's really going on?

[Caller Female]

So I am eight years younger than my husband. So he has quite a bit of working years old for me. And when we met I was fairly young. I was only 18 when we first met.

[Dave Ramsey]

You were 18?

[Caller Female]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're how old now?

[Caller Female]

26.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller Female]

Yes. So our financial situations have always been a lot different, obviously with our age gap. I mean, I've been working a full time job since I was 14 years old. So being in the working field is nothing new to me. Although because of I guess my age. And I don't want to use my age as an excuse because there's a lot of people who make a lot of money that are my age or younger. So I guess just with my experience and what I do have to offer on the table as far as job wise, I don't always get like high sight salary paying jobs. I start usually low.

[Dave Ramsey]

See all of that, all of that has to do with it sounds like you think you have to earn your right to be a wife. Like you're not equal if you don't make equal money.

[Caller Female]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you got married, the vow said richer for poorer, sickness and in health.

[Caller Female]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Your vote doesn't scale with income.

[Caller Female]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

You should have had a vote day one, regardless of your income level if he decided to do life with you. So what was the real reason you guys never combined?

[Caller Female]

He thinks that I'm financially irresponsible with my money.

[George Kamel]

There it is. I don't just got to the real

[Caller Female]

reason disagree with him.

Yeah.

It's like I was always someone and also this is something I'm trying to work on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller Female]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the marriages that are successful relationally and that are successful financially do not operate like yours.

[Caller Female]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why you're calling. Okay.

[Caller Female]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you're not his daughter, even though he thinks because he makes more and he's older that he's going to treat you like that. And so you're in time out because you didn't behave. That is not a, that's not a healthy marriage relationship. That's Bull crap. Okay, that's from a guy who's been married 43 years. That's bull crap. All right, so you. You don't earn your vote in the house, as George said, based on the income that you produce or based on your age. Neither one. You both get a vote the day you say I do. And both votes are equal the day you say I do. Period. Period. And this is the way marriages function, that we have studied thousands and thousands of them that become millionaires and that have high quality, high satisfaction marriages. It's not a. It's not a father daughter relationship. No one is punitive. We might argue, but we argue from a level playing field about what our goals are going to be. Not what I want to do versus what you want to do, but we argue about where we want to go. And you guys are a long, long way from that. And it brings me great fear because now that you're having another child at his request, now you're not going to be working at all, which means you don't even not only not have a vote, now you have to apply for welfare with him.

[Caller Female]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the way this character acts. And he has had bad training. Somewhere someone has told him this is the way to do it, and he's wrong. I'm not being unclear, am I?

[Caller Female]

No, you're being perfectly clear.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay.

[Caller Female]

And I do agree with you.

[George Kamel]

We've taken this call. So let me show you the future. He's going to give you an allowance, quote, unquote, because he's going to treat you like his daughter. And he will.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then bitch about how you spend it and then.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, and then he'll shrink it based on your behavior and how he feels about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

While you're trying to take care of the family and the kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

So no. Today this ends. The worm turns. Today, as Shakespeare said, the worm turned. So that's it. It's over. And we're going to sit down and, honey, we're going to be on an equal playing field. We're both going to have all of our names on all the accounts. It is now our house, our income, our bed, our kids, our future, or our is going to see a marriage counselor and we're going to get some marriage help. And we probably need to do that anyway, because at a minimum, you guys need some new tools on how to do marriage. Your tool belt is really empty.

[Caller Female]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so I'm not being mean, but I am. The things that are going through your mind, I don't want you ever coming at this discussion again from a subpar, substandard. I'm not as good as position. Don't you ever use that language again in your house. Because you're not subpar. You're not substandard. You're younger. You had a different career path. Whoopty.

[Caller Male]

Dop.

[George Kamel]

Dee,

[Dave Ramsey]

you're his wife. The old marriage vows in the old days, out of the Book of Common Prayer, where we get richer for poorer, sickness and in health. Unto thee the rest of it used to say, unto thee, all my worldly goods I pledge. Boy, we ought to add that one back into the marriage vow, shouldn't we? All of us. My job is now to love you so well that you are cared for. And you have a vote. Hello. That's service. Real leadership is service. That's real leadership. So we're on your side. I'm not angry with him. But the way he's acting is not going to prosper you. It's not going to prosper your children. It's not going to prosper him. And it's going to create a life of resentment, bitterness and anger. And you guys are not going to enjoy the next 10 years. And your children are not going to grow up in a good house because this is not the way people are supposed to interact. Kiddo.

[George Kamel]

We always say more is caught than taught. And those kids are going to see the way dad treats Mom. And mom gets an allowance if she's a good girl. And that's a sad way to live. And I think for too long, Laura has believed the lies that he has told her.

[Dave Ramsey]

That would be Stephanie, but. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Oh, yes, our Stephanie. I'm sorry. And so part of this is Laura

[Dave Ramsey]

might too, but this one was Stephanie.

[George Kamel]

Laura may as well. But, you know, I think if she went to a counselor on her own, the counselor would say, I'm seeing a pattern of gaslighting and narcissism and all these sort of trendy words. But I think there's a control mechanism here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's just an older guy that's used to being in control, and he's just still in control. That's all it is. I don't know if it's narcissism that might be overstating it, and it's not gaslighting. He didn't tell her she's crazy. He just said she was insufficient, that she was deficient. And so she needs to follow and do what he says. It's a control mechanism for sure. No question about that. But I don't Know, if we go so far as to throw trendy, overused, poorly defined words at it, you know, TikTok psychology. But yeah, yeah, that's. Sheesh. Yeah, that's. That. That's the thing right there. Wow.

[George Kamel]

It's one of our most controversial takes is that we believe couples should combine their life, including their finances. I don't know how it became so controversial. That's. So you should have a joint checking account.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's kind of like we teach people to live on less than they make.

[George Kamel]

Controversial.

[Dave Ramsey]

Controversial.

[George Kamel]

Who are you to tell me, get

[Dave Ramsey]

out of debt controversial. Save money and become a millionaire controversial. Buy a house you can afford and don't buy one until you can. Oh, that's controversial.

[George Kamel]

You're out of touch.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're out of touch. Dave, you're a boomer. You bought your house with a box of strawberries.

[George Kamel]

It was bartered for.

[Caller Female]

Sam.

[George Kamel]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. It's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work, so it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[George Kamel]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've trusted Jeff, Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family.

[George Kamel]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family, Folks. If you want. If you want to work the Ramsey plan and systematically walk the baby steps, get out of debt, work the debt snowball. Start putting money away for retirement, kids, college, get the house paid off, become very wealthy and a baby steps millionaire. The most efficient way to do that is using the EveryDollar app. The EveryDollar budgeting app walks you step by step, gives you Ramsey advice and coaching as if you were listening to the show, but it's carried around on your phone. Oh, and you and your spouse are working on it together. Hello, together. Pushing that through. Pushing it through. Pushing it through. There we go. Check it out. You can get it for free on Apple or on Google. Play the EveryDollar app. It's the world's best budgeting and financial planning app, period. Laura's in Sacramento. Hey, Laura, what's up?

[Caller Female]

Hi. I'm so happy to speak to two of my favorite people. I've been following you since 2013 and I am debt free and I have a house in the Sacramento area, but I have since moved in the last year to a very rural and remote property. And I cash flowed it and I lived for a year in a travel trailer because I bought it, you know, for cash. And also I wanted to make sure if a fire came through, I could evacuate if I had enough time with my house. Since living here for a year, I've found that, you know, I would like something a little more permanent. However, I also don't want to have to pay fire insurance because according to my Neighbors, it's between 10 and $12,000 a year. Also I get. So I'll stop there and say so I'm thinking about building a mobile home, which I know mobile homes are not a good investment. However, I still own my home in Sacramento. As far as an investment, I rent it out to traveling nurses. So every 90 days is a turnover and I make sure that it's in great condition. So I wanted to get your opinion. Is it still a bad idea to cash flow a mobile home to have something a little more permanent, but to save on insurance, basically, to not have to pay the fire insurance, knowing I'm taking the risk if a fire comes through.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what would the mobile home cost?

[Caller Female]

The mobile home is about $100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

I say so when it's worth 10,000, when it's worth 10,000,. Later when it goes down in value. How do we put this in the Smart column. When it goes from 100 to 10,000.

[Caller Female]

I'm wanting to say that instead of being an investment, it is a consumable good. It is something that I live in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but if you put the same hundred thousand in a house, it would have gone up in value.

[Caller Female]

Yes, but I would feel much worse if a fire came through and burnt it down. And I would feel compelled to get that fire insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I would too. I would too. But the thing is, you're losing $90,000. That's a lot of feel good.

[Caller Female]

Yeah, it's true.

[George Kamel]

You're saving ten grand to lose ten grand every year in that mobile home.

[Caller Male]

Oh, yeah.

[George Kamel]

So it's. I don't think it's as good a deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'll lose more than 10 the first year on the mobile home.

[Caller Female]

Yeah, yeah. So beyond cost or I guess the financial component, is there anything else about mobile home? I guess I shouldn't say that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's it. That's the only thing. It goes down in value. If they went up in value, I'd shut up.

[Caller Female]

Then you'd be okay with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[Caller Female]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean, it's a car. It's a car you sleep in.

[Caller Female]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it goes down in value. It's a modified. It's an increased depreciation, increased in cost. Depreciating consumable item. It's a bigger version of their travel trailer that you don't want to live in anymore.

[Caller Female]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In terms of math. That's the math on it. That's my only problem. I mean, one of my good friends owns one of the largest companies in the world that does those things. And he's like, dave, would you quit trashing it? Well, as soon as they start going up in value, I'll quit trashing it. But they're not going to go up in value. So would I do that? No, I would not do that. That I would pay the fire insurance and I'd build a house.

[Caller Female]

Okay. Yeah, that was my. Then my second question.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if I need to sell the house down in the valley to do that, I would do that. It sounds like you do need to because you don't have the money.

[Caller Female]

Oh, I have.

I have money.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much money?

[Caller Female]

So I currently have 130,000 in cash to build a mobile home. But before I build it, you're not

[Dave Ramsey]

building a mobile home. You're buying a mobile home. Other people build them at a factory and they send it to you. It's on wheels, remember?

[Caller Female]

Exactly. No, exactly. But it's Also putting it on the foundation here, put, you know, getting the water, sewer, all that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's what you're gonna do with the house anyway.

[Caller Female]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's just the, the gut of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What is the house in the valley worth?

[Caller Female]

It's worth $500,000 and I own it outright.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would sell that and build a house for cash.

[Caller Female]

Oh, yeah, I just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me ask you this. If you owned a house on this wonderful piece of property that you love and it was 100% paid for and it was worth $600,000 and you did not own a rental property with nurses in it, would you borrow on your paid for home to go buy a rental property? Oh, no, it's the same thing.

[Caller Female]

Wouldn't borrow either way.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the same thing when you don't sell the rental property and end up borrowing to build the house. It's the same thing.

[Caller Female]

Yeah. If I build a house, I would need to save longer before building the house. I wouldn't sell, you know, I would stay in a travel trailer longer until I have the money to build the house outright or I would do it. I would cash flow it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't. But I wouldn't have been in the travel trailer in the first place because I'm a snob. So, yeah, I mean, for the weekend maybe, but after that I'm done.

[George Kamel]

If you're camping, I might see Dave in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, if you did see me in there, I would be without Sharon. That'd be the other thing.

[George Kamel]

Sharon's not stepping foot in that. She won't let dark the door of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's like, good luck with that theory, bub. Yeah, she's more of a glamper, especially these days. Okay, so.

[George Kamel]

But yeah, owning a home is a long term decision. So you want to think long term. Ten years from now, was this a good idea?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, and that's the problem, you know, because they're, you know what? Almost always. And in her case it is too, but almost always drives the mobile home decision is I don't have the money and so I'm gonna cheap out. And you can cheap out. And for 100 grand you can buy something you can sleep in. And they're fairly nice at 100 grand. I mean, it's a pretty nice one. You know, it's not a bad one. They make them up to 300 or 400 or whatever. But I mean, 100 grand, that's a pretty nice place. But you're right, I mean, it's gonna lose more than $10,000 the first year. And then people also get confused and rationalized with, oh, well, the property went up in value. Yeah, but it was going to go up in value whether it had a house on it or whether it had a mobile home on it. And don't, just because, don't confuse that with the mobile home went down in value. It still went down in value like 100% of things with cars with wheels and, or motors. If it has a motor, it has wheels, it's going to go down in value, period. Your little John Deere tractor that you paid $8,000 to mow your quarter acre lot with and you financed with John Deere finance is going to go down in value. Your sea doo is going to go down in value. Your Mastercraft, I got two of them. They're going to go down in value. The world's best ski boat, thank you very much. It goes down in value. They're fabulous. They go down in value. That collectible Corvette I have in my basement is going down in value and it's a collectible. George, your battery with wheels, your Tesla is going down in value.

[George Kamel]

I know that the hard way. I'm trying to sell it right now. Nobody wants it, Dave, you can't give that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody wants a battery.

[George Kamel]

Nobody's in the market for like an iPhone4, you know, they want the latest and greatest. You're buying technology here. But it's true. It's why we say pay cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

It didn't age well.

[George Kamel]

If you're going to buy a depreciating

[Dave Ramsey]

asset, always and honestly, you get, you feel like right now you're trying to get rid of that car and nobody. You can't get rid of it. That's one bad feeling. It would be triple bad if you had financed that.

[George Kamel]

If I was underwater on it and

[Dave Ramsey]

you're sitting there paying payments and you can't give it away. Now you got like, now you got lots of pissed off. Now you're just moderately aggravated.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, just a light stupid tax on something I enjoyed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And, and well, the, the other problem with it is, is, you know, I'm going to make fun of you. So that's another problem.

[George Kamel]

So I almost thought you might want to buy it just to troll me with it. But I figure you're not going to put money into that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Could we like put it in the front yard and plant flowers in it?

[George Kamel]

That's what I was thinking. I thought you were going to like, you know, take, you know, take it to the farm, take it out back. We could Shoot it and just destroy it.

[Dave Ramsey]

We could take the Barrett.50 cal and shoot it.

[George Kamel]

It's cheaper than some of these fancy hunting trips that you go on.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I figure, be fun.

[George Kamel]

We could make some content out of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

We can make a video out of it. Let's charge it to the company.

[George Kamel]

You know what, Dave? I like the way you're thinking. You run the thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we'll get the s. We'll get the Instagram team out there.

[George Kamel]

Hey, team, clip this out. I want to be able to use this in a court of law.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

When I make. Dave.

[Caller Male]

It's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not happening, but it's just. It was a good. It was. You had a moment there.

[George Kamel]

I was close.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's close.

[George Kamel]

Oh, man. Whether it's a Tesla or mobile home, it's going down in value.

[Dave Ramsey]

Elon Musk would be so pissed if we took that thing out to the Farm and just blew the hell out of it.

[George Kamel]

He's got a sense of humor. He might enjoy it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me tell you something I see happen way too often. People fall behind on their bills and they wait. They hope it will work itself out. It won't. That's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group. Here's the deal. If you've missed payments, collectors or callers, or if you're getting letters threatening legal action, that's not something to ignore. That's the moment to deal with it. Because when you do nothing, it escalates. They can take you to court, and if you don't respond, they can win by default. And that gets expensive fast. Guardian Litigation isn't a call center. They're an actual law firm. From day one, you're assigned an attorney to represent you. So if things do escalate, you're not scrambling and you're not hit with surprise legal fees. Guardian Litigation only gets paid when the debt is neglected, negotiated, and you accept the settlement offer. This isn't about shortcuts. It's about dealing with the problem before it gets worse. Go to guardian lit.com Ramsey today. That's guardian lit.com Ramsey today.

[George Kamel]

Attorney advertising results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Frank is with us in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi, Frank. How are you? I'm doing pretty well, Dave.

[Caller Male]

How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller Male]

Well, throughout the marriage with my wife, in the last three and a half years, we have been using our one credit card for covering some of the four walls, like groceries and transport. But we've been covering mortgage and utilities with our checking account. And we also use the credit card for like health insurance premium and medical expenses and even some other life expenses. So we pay it off every month. And it feels like we give ourselves some room before we pay off the credit card each month, but you know, then using our savings as quickly. So I guess one of my thoughts or one of my questions is what are your thoughts on using the credit card for some of the four walls, even if it's not the long term solution?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, you, you've obviously not listened to the show much, right?

[Caller Male]

We've listened a lot. But I guess one of the reasons that we're holding onto the credit card is, you know, some of the.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you understand that your question is completely perpendicular to everything we teach for the last 30 years, right?

[Caller Male]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So I just want to, I mean, I'm trying to understand. If you understand what you're walking into.

[George Kamel]

It's a warning.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm asking. I mean, I'm being, I'm not trying, I'm not trying to beat you up. I'm just saying. So the answer to your question is that's dumber than crud. Okay, now why is it dumb? All right. Several reasons. Number one is there's not a singular piece of wealth building research that indicates that what you're doing causes you to build wealth. Not a single instance. We studied 10,167 millionaires. The number of them that do what you're doing is precisely zero. Rich people don't do what you're doing. Broke people do. Okay, so that's a bad sign. Now is it going to cause you to go bankrupt? Probably not. But the problem is that you actually have somehow used your decision making framework around money to convince yourself that this is a good idea and that this is somehow going to get you ahead more than simply investing. Investing is where money comes from. Living on less than you make is where money comes from. Not from trying to trick Citibank. And so the number of millionaires that became millionaires by adding up all their airline miles is precisely zero. None of them, not one broke. People chase airline miles. 78% of the airline miles are never redeemed. And yet people spend a lot of brain calories chasing this bullcrap that these rip off huge banks are screwing America with and then convinced you that it's a good idea to dance to their tune. I mean, now are you losing money when you pay a health insurance bill? That is a health insurance bill. Whether you pay it with cash. It's exact same amount can't possibly change. No, you're not losing money doing that. Are you losing money when you buy, when you pay an electric bill? That is going to be the same amount whether you pay it with a card or whether you pay it with cash. You're not losing a dime. When you go and you're buying your groceries, you're spending more. The best merchandisers on the planet are grocery stores. When you walk through a grocery store, you are walking through a scientific lab that is very carefully designed. What is on what shelf, at what level and what color. More than any other type of physical product on the planet, grocery stores are brilliant merchandisers. The chances that you walk out of there spending more than you meant to, regardless of what methodology you use, are very high because they're very, very good at it. And it started back in the 1950s with a simple thing of they put the necessities at the back of the store, the bread, the milk and the eggs. So you had to walk through the rest of the store and impulse on the candy. And Wrigley's became multi bazillionaires. The Wrigley family have a fabulous mansion in Phoenix. Fabulous by putting sticks of gum where at the checkout, the impulse proper. So these are just the beginnings of the sophistication that I'm talking about. So 100% chance you spend more in a grocery store than you meant to. And when you put it on a credit card, all the data, all the research says that you are spending somewhere between 12 and 18% more than you would have spent if you spent cash. Because cash activates the pain centers of the brain and credit cards don't. When you lay down a hundred dollar bill in the grocery store and Uncle Ben looks at you and says, what are you doing? What are you doing when you lay down a credit card, Citibank says, thank you. What's in your wallet, Samuel L. Jackson? My money is in your wallet. Not my money, but his money is in your wallet to pay for them stinking commercials that you did. That's what's in your wallet. We know what's in your wallet. A lot of Citibank's money.

[George Kamel]

Here's the fun math on this. Let's say you put $60,000 of your take home pay on that credit card to cover these bills and you got 2% cash back. 1200 bucks is what you got right for the year.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm exhausted for 1200 bucks for the year.

[George Kamel]

So here's what I want to challenge Frank. With Frank, if no one has taken me up on this challenge for one year, switch to On a Budget using debit card and cash, and see if you don't spend less than that 1200 bucks a year, which then negates all the rewards you got. And my guess is you're going to find that you spent thousands less by using your own money, leaving your bank account now versus using someone else's money that you can pay back later.

[Dave Ramsey]

100% chance.

[George Kamel]

Take me up on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're stepping over. Stepping over dollars to pick up nickels. Stepping over dollars to pick up pennies. Yeah. And so here. And so no, Frank, I would not do what you're doing. That's the reason. The biggest reason, though, is not the $1,200. The biggest reason is while you were focusing on the $1,200, you were missing the real way to build wealth because you had your eye on the wrong thing and you were thinking, this method works.

[George Kamel]

It's a distraction.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll tell you, it's the exact same. It's the same problem I got with Acorn.

[George Kamel]

With Acorns, that app.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Where you put pennies, you round everything up.

[George Kamel]

Your spare change can go up there,

[Dave Ramsey]

put your spare change in there. And people are screwing around with that with 14 cents while they should have been putting 350 bucks in their 401k. And they use the same brain calories to chase down the 14 cents that they would have done to set their 401k up and retire a multimillionaire.

[George Kamel]

In their mind, they've checked the box that I am investing. If I ask them, are you investing?

[Dave Ramsey]

They scratch the itch and you think

[George Kamel]

it's a bitcoin tap.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not investing. You're a child with a piggy bank. That's not investing. Children with piggy banks have $14 when they're 4 years old. And that's what you're going to have in your freaking Acorns app. It's the same thing. There's nothing evil about it. They're not ripping people off, but they took your eye off the ball and you're focusing your decision making paradigm and framework around the wrong things. And so that's the problem. And 100% of the time the Citibank tells you to do something, it's something you should not do.

[George Kamel]

It is in their best interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not for you. It's for Samuel L. Jackson. They gotta pay him. He's expensive.

[George Kamel]

Jennifer Garner's not cheap either.

[Dave Ramsey]

A hundred percent chance that Patrick Mahomes cost State Farm a bunch of money. Who you think paid for that? Oh you people that buy from State Farm. She have you not priced your dadgum homeowners insurance? You can beat it with almost anybody if you got a State Farm because you gotta don't have to pay Patrick my homes.

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[Caller Male]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're glad you're here. Ashley is in Bend, Oregon. Hi Ashley, how are you?

[Caller Female]

Hi. I'm good. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller Female]

So my husband and I have given, been given kind of a once in a lifetime opportunity. We have a family friend that is fairly well to do. Her and her husband own about five homes throughout the state, one of which is far over in eastern Oregon. And they are getting older and have offered for us to basically at a $0 a month lease this property from

them

to allow us to essentially build my horse training business and kind of start a ranching dream that we've had. We our hiccup is we both have extremely good jobs where we're at, all of our family is here, so on so forth and that is just a big leap.

So we're not sure if we should do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are your, what do you guys make at your extremely good jobs?

[Caller Female]

So we both are in the construction industry. He makes about 110,000 a year. I make 75 and then I train horses on the side and make about 50,000 from that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of course you would lose all of that clientele because you're moving far away.

[Caller Female]

Not necessarily. So my business is based on developing young horses and then selling them. So I don't necessarily have like a monthly clientele per se.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's more of also where you train the horses that you sell. Doesn't matter. So you wouldn't, you wouldn't lose the 50.

[Caller Female]

Correct. And I mean the idea would be to substantially grow that I understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean you would not lose the 50. You know, we, we know at least you can do that.

[Caller Female]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

If everything. Well, unless something really bad goes wrong. Okay, correct. And so how rural is this area? Why can your husband not work?

[Caller Female]

So he can. And that would be the idea over there. The town is about 140 people, so it's very rural. I guess it just wouldn't be what he sits at now. From what we've researched, probably about 70 or 80,000 is what he would make a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

That being said, out of 140 people,

[Caller Female]

the county as has some like management positions that are opening that I think he would be a very big benefit to them. He's a foreman for a construction company now. So I think he probably. He has some skills that would definitely be of interest. I would say I am 30 and he is 31.

[Dave Ramsey]

How far away is this place from where you are now?

[Caller Female]

About five hours.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many kids do you have?

[Caller Female]

None.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And so we would be moving from 110 on him down to 70 and we'd be moving. Your income that you're losing is you're keeping the 50 on the horse. What's the income you're losing?

[Caller Female]

About 70 I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's $11020,000 shift initially. Assuming you don't. Assuming you don't. That's if he gets a $70,000 job. And you can retain your 50 on the horses without any increase. Yeah, I got you.

[Caller Female]

And I have thought about grabbing something remote while I build the horse thing up more and more. Maybe getting something part time to remote to kind of help that gap be smaller.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, or like full time.

[Caller Female]

Yeah, or full time.

[George Kamel]

And these people will let you use this land and house for free is what you're saying.

[Caller Female]

Yeah. So they don't get over there very much. And it's obviously hard to maintain a property that's also five hours away from them. They've just held on to it because they like visiting there twice a year, essentially.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you own a home?

[Caller Female]

Yes, sir, we do. We have right at about a hundred thousand dollars in equity in that. And I do currently run the horse business out of that. Like, it's not something that I have to move to do that. I run it out of my house now.

This is just.

I mean, it's 1500 acres and.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's not yours. It's not going to be yours, correct?

[Caller Female]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

That's my fear is long term, you don't own this and it could shift hands.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. So 10 years from to now, from now, what does winning look like? You don't own any real estate. He's still working a county job. And you've grown a horse business. Yes, that's what winning looks like 10 years from now.

[Caller Female]

I think the idea would be potentially to grow the business and I guess buy a place of our own. The expenses there would be essentially next to nothing. You know, I guess it would just be utilities and the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's the mortgage on your house today?

[Caller Female]

The map balance, 410.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so if you took a hundred and went and bought a $500,000 ranch in some area that sounded like this, you could keep about the same mortgage amount and be on a ranch. Do this deal and do this deal, but own it.

[Caller Female]

Yeah.

And that's.

I mean, like, that's kind of been. Our plan was to just stay where we are and, you know, obviously work to make that dream come true. They have just offered this to us and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what we're trying to figure out. I'm just not sure it's a blessing. I was trying to figure out if it is.

[George Kamel]

It lowers your expenses, but it moves you away from ownership long term.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you're, you're. And also, and you know, everything's dependent upon how long will they. How long a lease will they give you for a dollar a year.

[Caller Female]

She basically has told us infinite bull crap.

She.

She went as far as telling me that she will put it in her will that the kids cannot sell the home until we decide we're done with the property.

[Dave Ramsey]

You understand? That's weird.

[Caller Female]

It is very weird.

[Dave Ramsey]

And like, so strange. I'm now spooked. Yeah, this is weird that they wouldn't

[George Kamel]

give it to their kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

As long as you guys are alive,

[Dave Ramsey]

essentially, our friend that raises horses gets priority over our entire family with our 1500 acres.

[Caller Female]

Nah, I think where she comes from is, that is her kids are very well to do and they're.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but my kids are well today. But I'm not doing that for you.

[Caller Female]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Dave's not giving me his horse.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just weird. George can't live there for free. I don't care. George, shut up.

[George Kamel]

But I love horses, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. Well, you're known for your horse love.

[George Kamel]

I'm just glad I met someone who's in the business of selling horses. Makes me feel better.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. Yeah. Her job is to do what you tell people to do. Who knew she made a career out of it? Okay. I don't know, I gotta admit, the romance of it I've kind of caught onto. Okay. Because 1500 acres, you know, are we all Yellowstone junkies? Is that our problem? But yeah. Anyway, the.

[Caller Female]

And it's like, it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't like the business aspect of it.

[Caller Female]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only way I would tell you to do this is if you pledge to yourself at the end of five years that you have your own place or you leave, period.

[Caller Female]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're not going to stay here longer than five years.

[Caller Female]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

Would they sell it to you?

[Caller Female]

Yeah, but the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but they can't afford it.

[Caller Female]

I mean, she put it at 2.8 million.

[George Kamel]

Perfect.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so, number one, I would put a time limit on it. And you can return to construction and you can return to the life you have now fairly easily, plus or minus your current job. Okay.

[Caller Female]

Yeah. And I was.

[Dave Ramsey]

If this thing all blows up and isn't fun and you hate living out in the middle of nowhere, after all, I took a call from a lady yesterday who said we bought our dream home with a bunch of acreage and we hate it. What do we do now? And I'm like, well, you sell it and you move back to the city. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. And so you know the green acres, but the. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, the other thing that's bothering me, I'm just gonna get it all out. Okay. Cause you called and ask. And I really like talking to you. Thank you. Cause you really have a level head for somebody doing a whole thing based on romance. And this is a very romantic story. It's a very cool, very cool story. I mean, the people that are infinitely generous, that are infinitely wealthy, and their children don't even care, I mean, this is strange. And so. That's sweet, but it's weird. And so, yeah, I'd put a five year limit on it, number one. Number two, I want you and your husband to do some prayerful soul searching because this entire adventure is based on your desire to run a horse business, nothing else. That's 100% the driver of this. And Is that really what you want to be the driver of your whole life? Cuz nothing else? We're doing everything else in this story to serve that one thing. And that's bothersome.

[George Kamel]

You know, when I became a dad, something flipped. Suddenly it wasn't just about me and my wife anymore. It was what happens to my family if I'm not here tomorrow. And things like that just hit different when you become a parent. But I'll be honest, making a will feels heavy and complicated. And it's not exactly what I want to be doing with my time off. But here's the deal. Being a parent means doing the hard stuff, especially stuff that protects your family. And that's why I use Mama Bear legal forms. No hassle, no lawyers, just a simple online tool that helped me create a legit will in about 20 minutes. So it was pretty much painless. Plus I added a notch to my dad belt right there between installing car seats and bedtime stories. Listen, being a dad never stops. And making a will is how you make sure your family's covered even when you're not there. So get your will done [e-mail] and use the promo code Ramsey to save 20% off when you check out again. That's mamabearlegalforms.com, promo code Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal. If you want to learn more about housing trends and see what the weekly mortgage rates are doing, what prices are doing across the U.S. well, we're on top of the all the market trends and we can help you buy or sell with confidence and even hook you up with a Ramsey trusted agent. Go to ramseysolutions.com market we'll give you some help. Emily's in Chicago. Hi, Emily. What's up?

[Caller Female]

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller Female]

Well, I'm 55 years old and I got four grown children. When my husband, my first husband, passed away nine years ago and left me with some life insurance, I had a revocable living trust created with my four children as a beneficiary. My house is fully paid for and it's titled to the trust. So I got remarried four years ago to a wonderful man and he moved into this house with me and he of course, helps with some living expenses and upkeep here and everything. And the house is rising in value. So my question is, how much equity should I give my second husband in this house? It was fully paid for before we got married. That I am fair to both him and the kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only way you could is if you restructured the trust, Right?

[Caller Female]

Right. Which I am about to do. Actually. I have an appointment here in about three weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

So restructure, have that appointment. Why?

[Caller Female]

Well, I was already going to make some amendments now that my kids are no longer minors. So while I'm doing that, I thought I would amend the trust in some way so that if something happens to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is the size of your estate?

[Caller Female]

My house now is worth about 500,000.

I.

I don't have any debt. I do have some retirement investments and some savings in an accessible investment account. I've always lived on a zero based budget and I think grand total mine would be about 1.2 million actually.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what have you done with all of that in regards to your current husband?

[Caller Female]

Nothing yet. All of that is. Has all been in a. In the trust that I had before.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everything you have was put into this trust?

[Caller Female]

Yeah, it feels like it was before I met him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why, why was it put in the trust?

[Caller Female]

When my first husband died, my financial advisor just said, this is what you need to do. And he just did all those things for me.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you don't even know why?

[Caller Female]

Not exactly exploit, except for to, I guess if something were to happen to

[Dave Ramsey]

me, a will take care of it. A will would take care of it. You don't have to operate everything.

[George Kamel]

You designate a beneficiary on these accounts and you don't need to put it in the trust.

[Caller Female]

Yeah, okay, well, I already do have the trust and I'm not sure you need it. Oh, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You might, but I'm not sure you need it. And I don't like that. You don't even know why it's there and yet this trust is running around. We're doing all this stuff that we're serving a trust that we don't know why it exists because I don't know why it exists. I'm not sure why you need one. You don't need one for estate tax planning. You don't have an estate tax problem. I'm sure of that. If you were trying to protect it from something, then you could use a trust for that. But I don't know who we're protecting it from.

[Caller Female]

Kind of them, I think. I want to make sure. Sure that. I want to make sure that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if you leave the house, if you have. If you're a widowed lady and you have a house and you say in your will, that house goes to my four kids, 100% of the time it goes to your four kids. You don't need a trust to do that.

[Caller Female]

Should I though, give some of that to my husband since he. My second husband?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's a separate discussion. First thing I'm talking about is the structure of your finances. Okay. And the structure of your finances. I don't know why you're doing this, so I want you to get some estate planning advice. And if you're going to keep the trust, I want you to have a real good reason why you have it and why you're keeping it. I don't know why your million three is in a trust, mine's not.

[Caller Female]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm your age and I've got more. And it's not in a trust. Okay. I've got some things in a trust, but that's an estate planning mechanism because my net worth is in excess of the 25 million doll exemption. So I've got some of those issues. But you don't have those issues. I'm not picking on you. I'm just saying there's a reason for a trust and there's a reason. Sometimes the only reason people have a trust is what I'm getting at is because some attorney sold them one, not because they needed one. So I want you to get into this and figure that out. Now, having said that, let's go back to your question. Let's say that you kept the trust and the trust stated that the first 500,000 value of the property upon you being deceased, the current value, the first 500, goes to your children as promised, and half of any increase goes to your children as promised. The other half of any increase would go to your husband.

[Caller Female]

That is what I was thinking. It was worth 340 when we got married four years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know that you have to back date it, but if you want to, you could.

[Caller Female]

Okay. And then 50% of the increase after that would be.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd split the increase between your kids and your husband if you. That's a. That's an equitable way to do it.

[Caller Female]

Okay. Yeah. The reason I wanted to ask is he feels like I should just give him 50% total.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Well, he wasn't there for the first 50%. The first 50% came for. He showed up. What? Why does he think he needs that?

[Caller Female]

Right. Okay.

[Caller Male]

Why?

[Dave Ramsey]

Where'd he get that logic? You think she's that pretty?

[Caller Female]

I think he has. He's listening to a few of your segments where you were speaking to somebody in a different situation. Who? Property taxes on a house that he had A totally different situation. And he kind of, I feel like, is kind of misapplying it to ours.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I, I wouldn't have said that in your situation. I, I mean, there's not a situation like yours that I would have answered this anyway other than this way. And I'm not even sure he needs half of that. But if you want to give him half of the increase from the time you got married on or from today on, that seems fair. If he's putting money into the property and he's going to pay at least half of the, I mean, you all have a combined account now, and your combined account is paying the property taxes and the insurance and the maintenance, then yeah, he could participate that way. That's okay, that's fair. But I don't know why he would be due anything from before the marriage. That, that's not logical to me. But I really do want to go back to the other thing and say, investigate why you ended up with a trust. All right, now, the reason I'm kind of going off on this, everybody sidebar. There's a whole segment of people in the insurance world and in the legal world that sell people a fifteen hundred dollar trust as if it's some kind of freaking magic wand for an estate planning tool that they don't need and they're a pain in the butt to operate. So when you're. Every time you want to sell the house, every time you want to do an investment, anything you want to do, it's all in the name of the stupid trust. And so I've got a couple of things in a trust, but they're not used that way. And people sell it to avoid probate tax, which is local estate tax. And it's usually not that much. As a matter of fact, it usually doesn't even cost as much as the trust.

[George Kamel]

The trust is a couple grand probate,

[Dave Ramsey]

which is typically 2 to 5 grand, depending on who draws it up and what it's for. Now, if there's a combative, adversarial family situation of some kind, and you're trying to lock down your intentions for the ownership for a particular thing in perpetuity, a trust is a way to pull that off. Okay? And then in that case. But normally a will will suffice for 98% of situations. And you don't just run over and get a trust. And what I've got here is a lady whose husband had passed away, she had a big insurance check and she went to a lawyer and what'd she end up With a trust. So I don't. I'm suspicious that she didn't need one.

[George Kamel]

Well, I get a lot of these videos sent to me from our fans. And it's always someone who has a vested interest in you getting a trust. Which is why they're like oh, if you have a will, you gotta get a trust as soon as possible. And it's as if it's some magic trick.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just scroll down to getmytrust.com.

[George Kamel]

exactly. And it's usually an estate attorney trying to get some clicks and views for their business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hello. Hello. Here's the advantages of a trust, no one talks about the disadvantages. Here's an interesting thing. Unless you retitle everything, including your mutual fund state, your mutual fund account, your real estate, everything, you have to go retitle it, your car, whatever, it's not in the trust until you retitle it. And people buy these trusts and then don't retitle the stuff. So the trust is just sitting there with nothing in it. James is in Baltimore. Hey James, what's up?

[Caller Male]

Hey, how's it going? Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller Male]

So my wife and I just recently quit our high paying jobs to have her stay home with the kids and for me to live out an early semi retirement, I guess just working part time. How dumb are we?

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know, I mean how. What's wrong with it? What'd you do that was dumb?

[George Kamel]

It sounds like you think you was dumb. If you're asking us what's the regret here?

[Caller Male]

I mean I'm having some second thoughts but I don't know how much of that is outside influence from my parents and my in laws who are pretty risk averse. Okay, and how much of it?

[Dave Ramsey]

What were you making about it?

[Caller Male]

In total we were.

[Dave Ramsey]

You, what were you making?

[Caller Male]

I was making about 300, just shy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing what?

[Caller Male]

I think cyber security.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and. And why were you $300,000 pissed off about it so where you didn't want to do it anymore?

[Caller Male]

I just been working for 20 years in the industry, I'm 40 now and just thought that it would be a good time to refocus my energy on the family rather than work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and so how much have you got in your nest egg? What are you living off of?

[Caller Male]

So we sold our house and so we've got about a million, just over a million in cash. 785 in 401k, 550 in a brokerage, 176 in a paid for rental and maybe 40 grand in miscellaneous, so about 2.5 and change.

[George Kamel]

And you guys are renting now?

[Caller Male]

Yeah, we actually moved to Greece.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow.

[Caller Male]

So we're back home visiting right now, but we moved to Greece.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you doing in Greece?

[Caller Male]

Working remote it. Cyber security, but for myself, part time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. And how much do you make doing that?

[Caller Male]

Just shy of 180. 190. It's looking like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that doesn't sound like you quit

[Caller Male]

on working 20 hours.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. Compared to what you were working, you quit. But I mean, you know, this is not a guy who's sitting on your tough 40 your entire week. You're working a little bit, make 180. You used to make 300, so 120. Cut. What was your wife making before she quit?

[Caller Male]

Right around 300.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what was she doing?

[Caller Male]

Marketing. Digital marketing.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she took hers all the way to zero.

[Caller Male]

He has one client, but it is basically nothing at this point.

[Dave Ramsey]

No money,

[Caller Male]

not much.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's not much?

[Caller Male]

Working for her. And I don't. I don't remember off the top of my head, but it's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let's just round up and say you. You guys are making over $200,000 a year. You live in Greece and you sold everything.

[Caller Male]

Everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's different than I retired. That's not. Your initial story, is not true. I retired. I quit. I do nothing. I play with babies and change diapers, and my wife plays with babies and change diapers. We do nothing. We quit everything. We're off the grid. That's how you started. And that's just not the accurate facts. You've got two and a half, $3 million, and you make $200,000 a year.

[George Kamel]

You took a pay cut to have an adventure in Greece and kind of scale back a little bit.

[Caller Male]

Yeah, I guess that's why I'm thinking of it as semi retirement, because I'm working eastern hours and I'm able to work from Greece. I'm effectively not working during the day. I work evenings.

[Dave Ramsey]

You work whenever you want and however much you need to to get the job done at 180. And you're keeping your skills sharp in probably one of the hottest fields in the world right now, cybersecurity. As long as you keep your skills sharp, you can jump in and out of that world and at random and make money. Agreed.

[Caller Male]

Yeah, I guess, like, plug in my income and my. More importantly, my, you know, savings and investments into various calculators.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so let me put it this way. It sounds to me like you Guys were driving. Have you ever driven a car at 150 miles an hour in excess?

[Caller Male]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, me too. The white lines are coming at you pretty fast. You remember what happened when you slowed down to 50 before you could walk

[Caller Male]

it out and walk.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You felt like you went from whatever to riding a turtle. I mean, it was just like. Because your brain had adjusted to that speed, and when you dropped down to 50, it felt like you stopped.

[Caller Male]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what you did.

[Caller Male]

100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

You two were $600,000 a year, high potential, high capacity people. You were working 60, 80 hours a week. You were straining your brain, you were straining your emotions, you were straining your physical body with the hours. And you went from 180 or went from 600 miles an hour to 200 miles an hour. It feels like you stopped.

[Caller Male]

Right? Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you really didn't.

[Caller Male]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're now just driving like most people.

[Caller Male]

No, I know. And it just feels like I worked 20 years to get where I'm at, and I was kind of on the threshold of getting to the next level. And.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the next level?

[Caller Male]

Svp. The tight title.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Do you want that? I mean, be careful about climbing that ladder of success. You want to be sure which building it's leaning on.

[Caller Male]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You looked up and said, the destination ain't worth it, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. I think I'm feeling pretty good, and I can have a really good life. I suspect you'll go through about four or five years of what you're doing now. You'll probably open up your own shop in some manner of some kind and get back to making a half million dollars just because it's fairly easy for you and. But you'll want to control your own destiny instead of wandering around in the corporate world, which you really got sick of, and I really don't blame you because they piss on their people.

[Caller Male]

Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you're good.

[George Kamel]

What's your burn rate right now? How much are you guys spending in a year?

[Caller Male]

Right around 6,000. That's living really comfortably there.

[Dave Ramsey]

A month.

[George Kamel]

Six grand a month.

[Caller Male]

A month.

[George Kamel]

72 a year, net. Yeah. You're making well in excess of that working 20 hours a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

James, I want the. See the narrative that you are shiftless, do nothing, retired early, and have no work ethic. That is being shamed and delivered to you somewhere is actually not accurate of who you are. If you were that, I would tell you, okay. I would say, get off your butt, you loser. I would Tell you. Okay, but you're really not. I mean, you're making substantial money because you've honed sharp tools. You have sharp tools in your belt and you're a craftsman. And you're able to apply those because of your years of experience and your connections and make an inordinate amount of money for a small amount of hours. And for right now, that's an adventure and a chance to slow down and get your breath. You guys have been running so stinking hard for so long, you just went from 180 to 55. That's all you did. But you're not shiftless or lazy. And I don't think you're going to do this exactly this way for the rest of your life. I don't think you're done. I think this is a sabbatical.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. This adventure could go. Yeah, it's getting old. We want to go back to the States four years from now. And you can do that. And you'll go pick up a job if you so choose or do your own thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

You may move to Switzerland. I don't know.

[George Kamel]

The numbers are irrelevant. You guys are doing great financially. It's not dumb financially, but if you're the parents, you're going. I can't believe they went from 600 to 200 on paper.

[Dave Ramsey]

Son in law quit his job.

[George Kamel]

So impulsive. But you know they don't have a vote. If you guys are enjoying your life, you're making your bills.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's funny, I've told this story a thousand times, but I'm gonna tell it one more time. So my grandfather worked for alcohol aluminum for 38 years, every single week. And when he retired, he was head cost accountant. He's a wonderful man, one of my favorite people on the planet. But steady, stable, secure, risk averse. Yeah. So my grandmother's a second grade school teacher. So I printed the first book, Financial Peace. I was selling out of the trunk of my car, sold it to a publisher. I got an email and it said, congratulations, you just sold your millionth copy.

[Caller Male]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the phone rang and it was my grandmother. And she said, I was worried about you. When are you going to get a real job?

[George Kamel]

Oh man, that's funny.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. And she's sweet. I mean she really was so sweet. She was so worried about me.

[George Kamel]

That's passive aggressive grandma behavior.

[Caller Female]

No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean she just. The point was it's just not her world, it's not her paradigm.

[George Kamel]

She doesn't understand it and she didn't

[Dave Ramsey]

have the viewpoint to Go. A million copies. I think we're okay. I actually do have a job, hun, and we're okay. And I'm still doing it today. About the way. Yeah. All these 30 years later.

[George Kamel]

Well, she'd probably think remote work is just unemployment with a different title.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it is. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Sammy is in Chicago. Hi, Sammy, how are you? Hey, good.

[Caller Male]

How are you today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller Male]

So me and my wife got on

[Dave Ramsey]

your program about seven months ago.

[Caller Male]

We've shut down all of our credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have about $50,000 worth of debt left. How much have you paid off in seven months?

[Caller Male]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Under about 6,000. Thousand a month. Okay.

[Caller Male]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household and what's your household income?

[Caller Male]

150 so far.

[Dave Ramsey]

You suck at this. Yeah, you're making progress, but a thousand a month, kind of weak. Our kids go to private school, which is a big. Is a big expense.

[Caller Male]

But my question was, is it a

[Dave Ramsey]

bad idea to take out a HELOC to consolidate it? I'm sitting on about $250,000 worth of

[Caller Male]

equity in my house and kind of

[Dave Ramsey]

just get it all in one place

[Caller Male]

and push it up to 1,200amonth and kind of clear that out in four or five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's a bad idea because you should turn up the heat. You should turn up the heat on your budget, turn down the heat on your lifestyle. You guys have. You've begun the process and you've taken the first level of sacrificing, which is a great progress. I picked on you pretty hard. But I mean, you really, you cut up your credit cards and you paid off $6,000, and that's more than you've done in 10 years. So you've come a long way. I mean, you're going in the right direction. Finally. Congratulations on that, and that's good. But what I want you to do Instead is pay 3, $4,000 a month and just get rid of this in a year. But that means you're going to have to cut a whole bunch of stuff out of your life for a year. And I don't know exactly what it is. And it's not the kids, private schools, because that's not the real problem. The problem is y' all spend a lot of money eating out and you go on vacation whenever the flip you want. Ding, ding, ding.

[Caller Male]

I hear that.

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Vacation, yes.

[Caller Male]

But, yeah, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you, you know, I mean, you're paying. You add all of that up and you take the budget and you and your wife go kids in private schools is a non negotiable. But all this other crap, we can cut it out for one year and hold our breath and be done with this, or we can keep this stupid thing around as a heloc like it's a pet. No, I want to kill it. And here's what happened. Here's what'll happen. Here's the cool thing. In the process of doing that, Sammy, you and your wife will permanently change how you handle money. You won't have to stay permanently sacrificed at that. But you will never be inattentive again. You will pay attention for the rest of your life because of this one time, because of the strain it does to your brain when you go on this much sacrifice. George.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Using the house as a piggy bank and moving the unsecured debt to a secure debt. It's not changing any of the behavior that got you guys here. And that's why we're telling you, don't do this. It's just moving the debt around and you guys are the solution. This great income you have, we just got to put it to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want you to be 10 years from now and only still finding $1,000 because you make too much money to be as broke as you are. I want you to be rich. I want you to live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. And so that involves turning up the heat for a short period of time. Cleansing the whole thing. Cleaning the whole thing off and then going from there.

[George Kamel]

Pause all investing too. If you guys are doing any investing,

[Dave Ramsey]

temporarily stop your 401ks, make sure you're not getting a tax return. You and your wife are together. We're not gonna see the inside of a restaurant until we get this done. We're not going on vacation until we get this done. We're gonna sell so much stuff that's junk around this house that the kids think they're next. We're gonna bust it and we're gonna have a tight budget and we're gonna detailed budget and the two of us are gonna agree on that budget and we're gonna make a and we're going to clean up this mess and cut up these credit cards, which you already did. Way to go. And you know we're going to finish this change out because personal finance is 80% behavior and you have to modify behaviors to win. It's only 20% head knowledge. The head knowledge, the intellect Needed to the intellectual knowledge base needed to become a millionaire. You learned by the sixth grade. It's just not that hard. The hard thing is the guy in my mirror. The guy in my mirror, if I can get that guy to behave, he could be skinny and rich. But he's got issues, you know, And I like donuts. It's a problem.

[George Kamel]

Like, this is getting personal, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I'm sorry, I just. My name is Dave and I like donuts. This is my personal AA meeting. But yeah, that's it, man. That's how it works, Sammy. We all face this stuff is the point. And the more I can get you to lean into it and burn with it a little bit, the more permanent the change becomes in your household. And then that is the biggest indicator of whether you're going to become wealthy, not whether we save a few interest rate points on a heloc. So good question. Thank you for calling in with it. Jonathan is in Miami. Jonathan, what's up in your world.

[Caller Male]

Hey, Dave, thanks for having me, man.

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure, better than I deserve. How are you?

[Caller Male]

Well, I've been following you and I have a question. This is mortgage related and let me give you a little background. I'm 44 years old. I have four beautiful kids. I am the sole earner in my home, right? I'm the head of household. My wife is a stay at home wife. We have no debt. I bring in approximately 200,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go.

[Caller Male]

And I have extremely poor financial discipline when it comes to investing or any of that stuff. No one has ever taught me. And I've always been fearful of losing my money. I do the dumbest thing possible which I keep it all in checking.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is in checking?

[Caller Male]

About 1.4 million. Correct.

[George Kamel]

Wow.

[Caller Male]

Wait, wait, don't you. Don't chew me out.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's just fabulous. You've got a million dollars in checking. I love it. Oh, you're going to be so easy to help.

[Caller Male]

I'll tell you what my problem is, okay? I. Because I don't have that financial discipline and fear of losing money. And I like having it under my pillow, per se, you know, having it in your checking account, you know where it is, you can get it whenever you want. I've been stacking. Now the only debt I have is this house mortgage. So I purchased a home in 2020. I have about $400,000 outstanding on it and I am fighting myself whether I should pay it off in full or whether I should, I don't know, do something else. Perhaps everyone is telling me that I've spoken to. Invested, invested, invested. I have no idea what I'm doing. That's fair person I talk to.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're wise not to invest it until you get comfortable. You should not do it because someone else said do it or because Dave said do it. But let's just start with the basics here, okay? 1.4 in checking, right? How long has that been there?

[Caller Male]

I've been saving for nine years now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me just play a game. Let's pretend a million dollars has been there for the last four years. Okay?

[Caller Male]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just for the fun of it. Now I want you to go learn about investing and get comfortable with it. And I'm going to help you do that because you've done the right thing. Don't put money in something you don't understand. So so far, you've done the right thing. But by not understanding investing. Had you invested in a basic mutual fund that only returned exactly what the market has returned, you missed out on three of the best years ever. Your money would have doubled in the last three years. Wow. That's cost you a million dollars, that lack of knowledge. So I want you to go get the knowledge, okay? And I want you to go to a smartvestor pro at Ramsey Solutions and go sit down with them and begin the process of learning and tell them you have a million dollars to invest because yesterday you paid off your house house with 400,000 out of checking. And by the way, you don't need discipline to pay off your house. It actually adds to discipline because it's very hard to get the money out of your house.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Our question of the day is brought to you by. Why refi? When people get buried under private student loans they can't keep up with, they might think there's no way out of that mess. Why Refi helps borrowers explore solutions with fixed rate refinancing and a payment plan tailored to their situation. Go to why refi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y, R E F Y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[George Kamel]

Today's question comes from Cameron in Wisconsin. What does Ramsey Solutions recommend regarding robo investment accounts? There are options where you answer questions based on your tolerance to risk and they automate the process. And that seems like a simple way for people to invest when they don't know too much about investments or don't have time to manage their account. Is this something you'd recommend? Well, I like to know what I'm investing in, and so I don't want to just delegate it to the robots and not fully understand what's going on behind the scenes. So the idea is pretty simple. You know, some people, they're not ready to work with an advisor. They don't have a lot of money, so they go the robo investment route. There's a low fee and they feel good about their decisions. And you're probably, you know, you could do worse than that. But it's still not my favorite option when it comes to investing simply because you. You're not fully involved.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, George, One of the most requested things we've gotten over the years is for us to actually list the mutual funds that we personally own.

[George Kamel]

Just tell me what to invest in, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is the mutual fund that you buy or have? Even company mutual fund companies have come to us and said, would you endorse our mutual funds? And we made the philosophical decision many, many years ago to do none of that. So you guys don't know what mutual funds I have, nor will you, because it's not the point of what I have. The point is what you have. And the point is you need to learn enough about the mutual fund for you to buy you an investment. You should not put money in something because Dave Ramsey did. You should put money in something because you looked at it, you understand it, and you have taught SAT with a good smartvestor, pro with the heart of a teacher. And you've learned about the historical. This thing's 62 years old. It's got this kind of track record, this kind of risk. It doesn't feel bad to me. I like it. And, you know, here's the fees on it, and I'm okay with that. And based on that, I'm going to choose that fund and I'm going to invest. That's how you should invest. A robo shouldn't pick it. This is not an automated car wash. It's your investments. And you know you shouldn't pick it based on the person sitting next to you in your cubicle. What'd you put in your 401k? That's a bad way to select your 401k options. Just looking over Gary's shoulder, God, 50% of the people in 401, that's how they picked them. Or their company had an automated process that automatically puts them in the dumbest, dumbed down, risk averse possible thing, which is really not a good portfolio of mutual funds. And they pick whatever the company dumped them in automatically and didn't even look at it. So this is not how you make money.

[George Kamel]

It's not a good investing strategy.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like, I'm going to buy a house and never look at it first. I have no idea about the neighborhood. Who knew they had cars up on blocks and shot down the street with Uzis? I had no idea. But I just bought a house there. You know why? Because I heard it was good on TikTok. You know, I mean, no, no, you don't do that. You go look at the house, you look at the neighborhood. You understand? You ask questions about the schools, you say, what's the hospitals like in the area? What's the traffic pattern around here like? You get knowledge about the product before you buy it. And that's what you do with a mutual fund. That's what you do with an investment. Do not buy something because a robo said to.

[George Kamel]

And likely it's going to put you in something too risk averse. Like target date funds or a bunch of bond funds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[George Kamel]

And then you don't even know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dumbs it down.

[George Kamel]

Twenty years later you go, why am I not getting these returns Dave talked about? Well, you're not investing the way we teach.

[Dave Ramsey]

The number of times I pull up in a 401k with a big company, they've got auto processes or they've got. They've got buckets of funds. Okay, here's five funds in the high risk bucket. Well, guess who does that. No one. Based on the bucket name.

[George Kamel]

Yep, you're not in Vegas.

[Dave Ramsey]

But then I pull up the actual funds. They're not high risk. They're just growth stock mutual funds. They're higher risk than a stupid bond fund, which is in bucket number one.

[George Kamel]

Might as well put it in savings

[Dave Ramsey]

in the your grandmother's boring bucket. And then you've got the medium bucket and the Goldilocks. Bucket just right. And then, you know, and so no one does the high. And basically, most people should probably be in the funds that are in that high risk bucket. But because the way it's named, they're just picking a bucket. They don't want to put any effort into learning about it. Get your butt to school. This is millions of dollars of difference whether you put it in the right fund or not.

[George Kamel]

I was talking to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't use a robo.

[George Kamel]

I do these man on the street, you know, interviews for my YouTube channel. We did one yesterday, and I asked people how much they have in retirement, and I asked them, do you know what you're invested in? Only one person out of 10 or 12 could tell me what they're invested in. And it's because they were a Ramsey fan, her and her husband in their 30s. $900,000 invested in mutual funds, just like we teach.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. And they got to be on George's YouTube channel, say, I'm a millionaire.

[George Kamel]

Pretty cool. And all the others just said, I don't know. I have a guy who does it. I think I've got a guy. I said it in my podcast.

[Dave Ramsey]

People in HR, help me. Good Lord, broke HR when people are picking your funds.

[George Kamel]

10 years ago, I logged. I don't even have the log into the 401k, but 10 years ago, I think I clicked some funds that's the most of people's knowledge about their investments.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, you know, let me just tell you, winning at anything is a series of intentional acts. You have to be intentional about your investing. You have to be intentional about your marriage, intentional about raising kids, intentional about taking care of your body, intentional about your spiritual walk. You know, no one wins the Super Bowl. And then the reporter runs out on the field and goes, how did you do that? And they go, I don't know. I just got off the bus and this just happened. What happened? I don't know. No one says that they've been studying and playing football since they were freaking six years old. They don't do anything else except throw a ball, throw a ball, get hit by throwing a ball, hit somebody that throws a ball. That's all they've done their whole freaking life. And then they don't know how to do anything else in life because they're so focused on that. And that's how they get to the Super Bowl. It's an intentional act. It's an intentional act. And so, you know, for God's sakes, don't have a robo pick it for you. I want an app so I don't have to think. There's nothing.

[George Kamel]

There's an app.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, there's not an app that keeps you from having to think. Not if you want to be somebody and have something. You got to do the stuff. Or you got to do the stuff. You got to do the stuff. No Robo, no George, no Dave, no Rachel. We're not even going to tell you what invested. What Kelly is invested in. We're not even going to tell you her mutual funds, because I don't even know. So I can't tell you. So there you go. And. Although that might get some real serious. But anyway, can you imagine Dave Ramsey's producer put that in there. George's producer put that in there. That would be. That'd be the.

[George Kamel]

Well, the good news is they're not like super secret funds that only Dave has access to.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they're ridiculously boring.

[George Kamel]

And you probably have changed it almost never in that period of time you've been investing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't remember changing it.

[George Kamel]

A fund may have moved and switched

[Dave Ramsey]

around, and I don't think I even changed it then.

[George Kamel]

You probably don't look at it much now that you've, you know what you're invested in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pull it up enough to know what's going on with it. Because I'm intentional, but I'm not like, oh, I'm panicking. Trump bombed Iran. I'm like, no, it went down. Prices went down. Good. I can buy more.

[George Kamel]

It's on sale.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's on sale today and all that. Yeah, that's the whole thing. So be intentional. You know, I used to get a lot of hate mail for this, and I haven't done it in a while, so I need to get. I hadn't had a hate mail in a minute.

[George Kamel]

I was gonna say we haven't.

[Dave Ramsey]

You want some more hate mail? Here we go. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

[George Kamel]

Well, now you've done it, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know what? You know where that saying comes from?

[George Kamel]

The Bible?

[Dave Ramsey]

No. It's the truth. Oh, that's where it comes from.

[George Kamel]

I thought there was a proverb in there somewhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And you know why? It's not because rich people are evil. It's not because they're smarter. It's not because they're prettier. It's not because they stole money. It's not because they did something wrong. They had a series of habits and principles that they operate their life on, and they continue to do that and you know what poor people do? They have a series of habits and patterns that they operate their life on. And that will make you poor and

[George Kamel]

keep you there if you don't break the cycle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now there is an exception to that. To be fair, just to limit the hate mail just a little bit. Sometimes people are poor because they've been oppressed and they've been in a situation politically or racially or something else where they've been oppressed, that's not their fault. But most of the time in America, when someone's poor, it's because of stupid butt choices. I've been broke, but I've never been poor. Poor is a state of mind. If you're a business owner who's serious about growth, you've got to be at Entre Leadership Summit 2027. Summit is our world class leadership conference where you will learn from the people who have influenced the way we lead. At Ramsey, you'll also connect with like minded business owners who are facing the same challenges as you. To get your tickets for May 2027, go to entreeleadership.com summit. I just opened up my daughter's Instagram account. Rachel Cruz and I seldom get cracked up and that cracked me up. So her and Winston toasting a glass of wine. Couples who enjoy good food and wine have a much higher success rate than couples who don't, according to a study I made up.

[George Kamel]

She's got your DNA. That sounds like something you would say if you were a female.

[Dave Ramsey]

88% of the statistics are made up on the spot. I'm just saying.

[George Kamel]

Ironclad research from Rachel Cruz right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

According to a study I made up. That's great. That's so Ramsey. Callie is in Detroit. Hey Callie. What's going on?

[Caller Female]

Hi. My husband and I just had our

second child and we've been debating for the past few months whether or not my husband should quit his job and

be a stay at home dad and

part time do self employed with our woodworking business.

But we wanted your advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's part time self employed at his woodworking business.

[Caller Female]

No, that's what he would do in addition to being a stay at home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I see. I see. So what would he, what does he make today?

[Caller Female]

He makes 162.

[George Kamel]

What are you making?

[Caller Female]

I make 187 and then like about 20k and stock that year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I take it he hates his job and you don't.

[Caller Female]

Yeah, my job is really flexible. It's fully remote and I'm really passionate about it and my he, he does not enjoy his job and he has

to drive into work and it's about an hour commute. So it just puts a lot of

parenting strain on me in addition to my job.

And we just think the lifestyle would be much better if.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about he hates his job.

[Caller Female]

Yeah. He also hates his job.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's running from something, not to something,

[Caller Female]

I think.

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If he loved his job, you wouldn't even have made the call. You would have hired a governess or nanny to help you when you. While you're staying, while you're working from home as a remote. And

[Caller Female]

I think it's like with our first. I stayed at home with our first.

So there's part of our values as

well that, like, we don't want to. We don't want to pay someone else to parent our kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're there, you're gonna be in the house because you're remote.

[Caller Female]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is not. You're not sending them off to boarding school. You know, somebody put them down for a nap while you finish up a zoom call.

[Caller Female]

Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah.

And that's one of the options we're

considering is hiring a nanny.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think your husband signed up for this because he has sat around for the last 10 years wishing he was a full time dad sitting at home changing diapers. I think your husband signed up for this because he's trying to get away from his job and because it's what you want him to do.

[Caller Female]

Interesting. Here, I'll just hand him the phone.

[George Kamel]

Oh, the plot thickens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, you hate your job and you're wanting to come home. Is my supposition to get away from your job?

[Caller Male]

I wouldn't go so far as to

say I hate my job for what I do.

It's actually the best job I've ever had, which makes it difficult to leave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller Male]

It is stressful, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

But still the best job I've had in the field I work in. Okay, Well, I do relate to my

[Caller Male]

wife's comment that, you know, we're struggling

[Dave Ramsey]

with the idea of would we be

[Caller Male]

paying someone else to raise our children?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I don't, I don't suggest that I get the value. Okay. My wife was a full time mom, raised our kids. Okay. Both of my daughters do have careers, but both of them have a. You know, and both of them have some help, but they're not. They didn't send their kids off to boarding school and they're not in a daycare and they're not any of that. It's just a, you know, a part time nanny situation to supplement the time that they need to be at home because they're very flexible like your wife's situation. So anyway, I can relate to what you guys are after here. And yeah, I'm always the one I want to push back and always make you think, make sure you're thinking about what your real motive is under the motive. Because you're walking away from a couple hundred thousand dollars. So you need to have a really, really good reason for doing this. And I don't run into a lot of people that, that the guy wants to come home. And if you want to, I'm not mad about it. It's okay. I'm not saying you're doing something morally wrong, but, but you're, you know, you're drop, you're leaving a couple hundred thousand dollars or 800, whatever, you make $160,000

[George Kamel]

on the car going from 370 to 207 is what would happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you need to have really thought that out because the part time woodworking thing is kind of a joke as far as that. That's a throwaway. That's like acting like you're doing something else. And by the way, who's gonna watch the kid while you're doing that? So you know, it still leaves a gap potentially. But anyway, the. So I. This feels like, it feels in the air like something else is driving this. Other than you just woke up, sir and said, I really don't want to work anymore. I want to be with the babies all day long. I don't think that's what happened. I don't hear that here. But y' all do whatever you want to do. I'm not mad at you about it. And it's not a. I think it's a value like you said earlier. You guys both said it and I agree with what you said. Said Sarah. It's a values based decision. Oh, not Sarah. I'm sorry, Callie. And so, but it's a values based decision and if you guys choose to do that, then you need to think through exactly what that means from an identity perspective, from what the trade offs are and really go deep on the spiritual and emotional relational discussion on what's really driving this. And I don't know, I just, I gotta check on it. But I could be wrong.

[George Kamel]

I like the idea of a trial run with a nanny. See how that goes. And if it just pains you to not be There with the kids, then, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, and again, a nanny's not a full time gig here. It's supplementing mom who's already in the house. And you know, if she was at work, that's like, you know, in a physical location away from the house. That'd be a completely different discussion then. But because a nanny is then quote, someone raising your kids, unquote, although that's overstated because that's not really what happens. Your children when they're in school all day long, someone else is not raising your children. You're still raising your children.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If this is the case when they get old enough that they go to

[George Kamel]

school, home school, and continue down that path.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. That whole thing. So. But you know, again, my children went to school and someone else did not raise my children. It was not a boarding school. It was a public high school, public elementary school. And someone else did not raise my children. So that's not, that's not an accurate statement when you have other people involved in some of the hours of their life. They also went to Sunday school on Sunday morning. But someone else didn't raise my children spiritually. I did. Spiritually. Spiritually. Their spiritual walk is largely my fault. Hello. One way or the other.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. The parents will still have the most influence.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. It's a good discussion. I want you to go deep with the discussion and double triple check both of your motives and don't overstate things in hyperbole to justify it. And someone else raising my children when a nanny's helping part time is overstating it. And I'm going to have a part time woodworking thing, but I'm going to be at home full time with a kid. No, you're not. Something, you're, you know, I don't know how part time, but I mean, one hour a day it's not, you know, and you know, with a monitor, I mean, I don't.

[George Kamel]

It's probably not going to add meaningful income on top of the 207.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. So. Yeah. And then, you know, what is it? And then what's five years look like and what's two years look like and what's one year look like? And is there an exit possibility from this situation? If we get into it and we don't like it, what are we going to do? Do you. How, how could we return to something that looked more like what we had before? I don't know. All of those things are things I want to talk through clearly. But Again, I'm really not mad at you about it saying it's a horrible idea. There's just something bothering me. And it's not just that I'm a child of the 60s.

[Caller Male]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with asking Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Our scripture of the day. Proverbs 16:3. Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans. George Bernard Shaw said if all the economists were laid end to end, they'd never reach a conclusion.

[George Kamel]

That's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's funny. Hey, guys. In 2023, the stock market was up 26%. In 2024, it was up 25%. In 2025, it was up 18%. In those three years, if you had put money in, you would have made an 87% rate of return. In three years, you would have doubled your money almost. Now, I don't think the stock market's going to do that all the time, but some of you have been sitting with money in a checking account while that happened because you don't have a smartvestor pro in your corner to teach you about investing. You need to learn about investing when it is time for you to invest. You've gotten out of debt. You have your emergency fund. You need to have someone that can help you. And we've been connecting listeners to SmartVestor Pros for over 20 years. They'll help you create a plan and they'll teach you, and then they'll help you make informed investing decisions. You will decide, not them, not me. Go to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor and find a pro near you and quit missing out on all of this. See, the news doesn't talk about the stock market when it's good. The only time they talk about it is when it's bad. So you're missing out because no one was telling you, including us. We didn't tell you. We should have told you. It's been great and you missed out. It's up 13% this year.

[George Kamel]

Go check your 401k if you don't believe us. If you're invested in the right things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. For real. Sarah's in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi, Sarah, how are you? How are you?

[Caller Female]

I'm well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller Female]

So my fiance and I are getting married. We've already set a date and we are getting civilly married. I am the youngest of my parents children. I'm the only girl and there are no female cousins and my fiance is the youngest boy. We have decided not to do a traditional wedding and we're not even going to get married by a pastor. We're actually getting married by a judge. And our families. I think my family already knew how I felt about spending that type of money on a day. But we're getting some pressure as if we are being, I don't know, dismissive because we don't want to spend that money. Our plan that we've already started on

[Dave Ramsey]

the money that we're going to spend is your money money, not theirs. Am I right?

[Caller Female]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it's not like his mom and dad have offered to give you $50,000 for a wedding. No, no.

[Caller Female]

My parents are giving us some money also are going to. They're going to give us about 40,000 and they want to spend. They want to throw me a, you know, because they're very traditional, a wedding celebration party. And I said, okay, but the cap. I said I really don't want. I would rather that money go towards the house. But they did say, well, we will still give you money towards the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're having a welling a wedding celebration party to. So family and friends can enjoy this celebration with you. And your parents are paying for it. It's costing you nothing.

[Caller Female]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're getting married by a judge and that's the plan. And his mom doesn't like it.

[Caller Female]

Well, I won't say doesn't like it. I would say the family. And it's really not. His mom is being respectful. You know, I think the dad and the mom just expected us to be more traditional to be married by a pastor, to actually have a wedding.

I'm not doing.

I did not do a bachelorette party, a bridal party or an engagement party because.

[Dave Ramsey]

But his dad doesn't care about any of that. You added that.

[Caller Female]

I doubt it.

[Dave Ramsey]

His dad doesn't care if you had a bachelorette party. I promise his dad doesn't care. Okay. But he is kind of worried about you not having a traditional wedding with a pastor because he's a person of faith.

[Caller Female]

Yes. And I guess for me, I just I don't. We are buying a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but having a pastor marry you doesn't cost any more than having a judge marry you.

[Caller Male]

You.

[Caller Female]

True.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What is he. What is his. What's his hang up? I'm trying to figure out who's pressuring you other than in your head.

[Caller Female]

Well, their hang up is that we are not in. Really. They are not our. My parents are handling a lot of the party and there's really no involvement from that side of the family. And because I'm definitely like, I don't want.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's not. That's not a money thing. That's a relational and communications thing.

[Caller Female]

The question I have definitely is how do I communicate? Why? Like, is there a better way to communicate? We just think that's a waste of money. I don't want to go into it, you know, going, no, I wouldn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't. I would just say, here's what we want to do and why. And is. Is there an issue you have with that and let them tell you instead of you trying to figure out what it is because you don't know. You ain't even been able to tell me.

[Caller Female]

I think. Well, I. I know that the issue is basically that are. That definitely we are doing this on our own. And there has been no type of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, usually the groom's family doesn't write checks. Except for the rehearsal dinner. Traditionally.

[Caller Female]

Yes, yes. But we're not doing a rehearsal.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I honestly doubt that the whole family is upset that they're not having to pay for a rehearsal dinner or plan it.

[George Kamel]

It's not like, that's super fun for most people.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[George Kamel]

So what kind of involvement are they wanting?

[Caller Female]

I can. I guess I really need to dig into that more because I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing. I don't. Here's the thing. I want you to do what you want to do. You're the bride, and unless someone is financing their personal wishes, they don't get a vote. Like in the case of your parents, your parents desire a party and they're going to pay for the party and still give you the gift they promised above that. And so your parents have handled that appropriately. Therefore, they get a vote, and you let them have that vote and agreed to that party. You see what I'm saying? That's a good. That was a process that was perfectly. I would consider the same thing on the actual service itself and say it means a lot to his dad because he's a person of faith to have this done by a pastor. In a church, and it's going to cost exactly the same money. And it doesn't offend me. If it does offend you, then you don't have to do it. But if it doesn't offend you and you're neutral on that, then why not do it there instead of the judge? Because you're trying to make this out like it's an economic thing. And it's not an economic thing. Nothing you've described to me. Is anybody getting hurt, economic. No one's wasting any money here except your parents, according to your process. And your parents are doing it gleefully, as I would, by the way, I like a big party at a wedding. I mean, the first time we saw Jesus do miracles was at a party at a wedding. So I'm in for parties at a wedding.

[George Kamel]

The wine was flowing.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it. And so. But I mean, I'm like all the old people in this story. I'm traditional in your story, but your mom and dad have handled this perfectly. And somehow there's some kind of a burr in the saddle on the other side. And I would just sit down and say, hey, we want to just do something very simple and plain and inexpensive. And what can we do that would make you guys happy? And then see, if you want to do what they're talking about, it could be something as simple as, you know, you run down to the local church and the family that the pastor has gone to that church a hundred years. Everybody's gone to that church. That pastor knows everybody, baptized your fiance, and for 50 bucks, he'll do the wedding instead of the 50 bucks you give the judge. And if that's all it is and it doesn't bother you, Sarah, then it's revenue neutral, meaning it's the same cost. Then why not do it? That's what I would get.

[George Kamel]

I like that plan. And then everybody's a little bit happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

I couldn't find the problem.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I think it is a lot. Like you mentioned, it's more feelings because we just don't have the information.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I. I read into what I think people are thinking way too often when I don't ask them without communicating what they're really thinking.

[Caller Female]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And especially sometimes I do it with a caller.

[George Kamel]

There's just so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's true.

[George Kamel]

There's so much emotion around a wedding, and there's different families and different values and backgrounds, and I think most people just don't have the conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Early on to say, hey, here's our plan. We all on the same page.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I wrote all the checks. And I'm still happy that none of my kids eloped.

[George Kamel]

You don't regret that money?

[Dave Ramsey]

I had a blast.

[George Kamel]

It wasn't money wasted.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I can't wait to be at my grandkids weddings. And I may write those checks. So there. Shut up.

[George Kamel]

Clip that one too. I want to send that to the grandkids. Let them know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, they already know. Try to keep the old man alive long enough that puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the book. So we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.