You Don’t Have to Stay Broke

Summary

The Ramsey Show: "You Don’t Have to Stay Broke"

Date: August 25, 2025
Hosts: Ken Coleman & Rachel Cruze
Episode Theme:
This episode dives deeply into practical steps for getting out of debt, managing relationships and money, and making tough but necessary financial decisions. Through real caller stories, the hosts encourage listeners to take control of their finances—no matter where they’re starting from or what mistakes they’ve made—and provide actionable advice with a blend of tough love, optimism, and empathy.

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Key Discussions and Insights

1. Caller Struggles: “Stuck in a House I Can’t Afford”

[00:36–08:39]

• Situation: Lacey from Jacksonville bought a $400,000 home at a high interest rate, but her take-home pay isn’t enough to cover her mortgage and debts. She’s single, with some support from her boyfriend, but overwhelmingly stressed and cycling through credit card debt.
• Advice:
  • Sell the house ASAP. Even at a slight loss, freeing up $3,100 per month is essential.
  • Move to renting. Take the pressure off, find something affordable, and start over.
  • Step up income. Leverage her nursing degree for extra shifts or side jobs.
  • Cut the boyfriend loose. He’s not contributing enough to help; Ken calls him a “financial deadbeat.”
• Memorable Moments:
  • “Kick him to the curb. You have no life right now. Don’t have time for a boyfriend… He's a financial deadbeat anyway.” – Ken [07:09]
• Timestamps:
  • Mortgage troubles & budgeting breakdown: [00:43–03:32]
  • Boyfriend discussion: [03:32–04:59]
  • Debts and next steps: [04:59–08:39]

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2. Financial Windfall & Grief: “What Do I Do With $120K After Loss?”

[11:03–20:52]

• Situation: Angela in Illinois lost her fiancé unexpectedly and received a $300k life insurance payout; after debts, she has $120k left.
• Advice:
  • Emergency Fund first: Increase her buffer to $20,000, especially as a single parent.
  • Invest the rest: Consider index funds or a SmartVestor Pro for growth; open a 529 plan for her 5-year-old son for college.
  • Don’t rush big decisions. Take time to process grief and seek professional guidance.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “With this amount of money, you can put it in an index fund and let it grow to $2-3 million by the time you’re 65.” – Rachel [16:07]
  • “Sit down with a professional and have them partner with you. Let’s use this wisely.” – Ken [17:58]

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3. Moving Out and Delayed Debt Freedom: “Anxiety Over Timeline”

[25:19–31:57]

• Situation: Lori, 27, is moving for work, losing a free living situation, and worried that renting will delay her debt payoff by over a year.
• Advice:
  • Find extra income (second job, side hustle, or a roommate) to replace lost “free rent” advantage.
  • Mindset shift: The real barrier is believing it’s possible, not just circumstance.
  • Practicality: Even a temporary extension isn’t forever; stay focused and you can beat your goal.
• Motivational Quote:
  • “This is all mindset. When you sell your dignity for companionship, you set yourself up for financial disaster.” – Ken [30:02–32:08]

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4. Marriage & Boundaries: “Tangled Family Finances”

[35:30–44:23]

• Situation: Leo and his wife are newly married but relied on his mother-in-law’s help for rent, which became toxic when she started harassing them and attaching strings to her support.
• Advice:
  • Set boundaries: Don't accept help that comes with manipulation.
  • Track every dollar. Build a budget and be obsessively aware of income and expenses.
  • Take second jobs and boost income.
  • Cut up credit cards and focus on small emergency fund, then kill debt.
• Notable Quote:
  • “Everything you’ve known with money—do the complete opposite.” – Rachel [39:53]

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5. Relationship Red Flags & Co-Mingling Money Before Marriage

[46:23–54:56]

• Situation: Meg’s fiancé wants her to use her $30k savings (from before she met him) to renovate his parents’ house before it’s even theirs. Meg has a baby, but they’re not married yet.
• Advice:
  • Do NOT combine finances or pay for partners’ family expenses before marriage.
  • Address red flags around his attitude about money and debt.
  • Delay big decisions, especially home and baby, until married and truly on the same page.
• Memorable Moment:
  • “You have $30k because you’re doing it better than him, Sparky.” – Ken [53:31]
  • “Don’t hop in the sack with a loser. This is a great life rule.” – Ken [64:00]

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6. Joint Finances and Debt in Marriage

[66:58–75:48]

• Situation: Caller Mark is managing IRS debt ($9,600), some personal debt, and his wife has $23k student loans. Their money is only partly combined due to his IRS debt history.
• Advice:
  • Combine finances for team focus and long-term marital success.
  • IRS debt is the first priority after $1k emergency fund.
  • Use her $800–$1,000/month income strategically in baby steps.
  • Hustle more: Mark’s waste management side gig could double or triple family income.
• Practical Tip:
  • “If you’re hustling like you should, you can make $2,000 easy a month. That’s the play, Mark.” – Ken [74:15]

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7. Premarital Money & Fertility: “Order Matters”

[76:20–85:40]

• Situation: Susan and her boyfriend want to start a family and he wants to help pay off her $90k debt before marriage.
• Advice:
  • Don’t pay off partners’ debt until married.
  • Set a marriage timeline before major financial or fertility decisions.
  • Combine finances after marriage; use emergency fund and savings to pay off her debt as a team.
• Notable Quote:
  • “Order is really important. Where people screw up, not just biblically, but financially, is when they get this out of order, it gets really difficult to win.” – Rachel [84:25]

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8. Debt-Free Scream: $651,000 in 7 Years!

[107:39–116:53]

• Guests: Michael, Stacy, and their daughter Quinn from Maryland paid off $651k (including house, rental property, student loans, credit card debt) over 7 years, starting with $200k income, peaking at $346k.
• Strategies:
  • Obsessive focus on budgeting and paying down debt.
  • Used pension, encore job, and Stacy’s income; all extra money went to the house.
  • Sacrifice and involvement as a family, including their teenager.
• Quotes:
  • “Obsession is not a bad thing—so long as you don’t put it before God and family.” – Michael [113:03]
  • “We are baby step millionaires, multi-millionaires now.” – Stacy [115:49]
  • “Three, two, one... WE’RE DEBT FREE!” – Family [116:42]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Financial Relationships:
  • “Don’t combine money with anyone you’re not married to. No exceptions.” – Rachel [50:36]
• On Tough Love:
  • “You’ve been living in ‘La La Land’—welcome to the real world.” – Ken [30:02]
• On Parental Enabling:
  • “This is a marriage problem… not being on the same page about your 21-year-old’s independence.” – Ken [125:04]
• Motivation:
  • “Don’t procreate with crazy. Don’t live with someone who’s a loser. You’d be surprised at how wealthy you could become.” – Ken [64:00]
• On Adult Growth:
  • “Renting isn’t throwing money away—you’re buying time and responsibility.” – Rachel [59:54]

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Key Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---------|-------|-----------| | 1 | Home you can’t afford & debt | 00:36–08:39 | | 2 | Inheritance after loss | 11:03–20:52 | | 3 | Moving out, delayed debt payoff | 25:19–31:57 | | 4 | In-law drama & boundaries | 35:30–44:23 | | 5 | Should I fund my fiancé’s remodel? | 46:23–54:56 | | 6 | Joint finances in marriage | 66:58–75:48 | | 7 | Debt before marriage & fertility | 76:20–85:40 | | 8 | Debt-Free Scream ($651k) | 107:39–116:53 |

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Overall Tone & Language

• Direct, encouraging, and tough love: The hosts don’t sugarcoat—if you’re ignoring reality, they’ll say it plainly, but always with the belief that you can turn things around.
• Humorous and relational: Lots of banter between Ken and Rachel, with jokes about planners, Backstreet Boys, and the realities of family dynamics. Good-natured but firm advice.

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Summary Takeaways

• You can’t build wealth while you’re enabling others or ignoring reality.
  Selling a house, getting a second job, breaking up with a non-contributing partner—these are the hard moves sometimes needed to move forward.
• Financial unity is a cornerstone of a good marriage.
  Separate finances = separate lives and slower progress. Merge for best results.
• Never, ever combine finances or pay off a partner’s debt before marriage.
  Protect yourself and your future.
• Parental boundaries matter.
  Know when love turns into enabling.
• Obsessive budgeting and teamwork unlock freedom.
  Family-wide commitment can pay off hundreds of thousands in debt.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode tackles the real, messy details of financial transformation—everything from relationship drama and enabling to massive wins on the debt-free journey. If you feel “stuck,” remember you don’t have to stay broke. The Ramsey Show team believes your future is worth fighting for, and with the right mindset, tough choices, and support, you can chart a new course—no matter your starting point.

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“You can do this. It’s just some hard, big decisions you have to make. But I think your future is bright.” – Rachel Cruze [08:12]

Transcript

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Ken Coleman]

This is the Ramsey show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their work, and their relationships. We're so excited to have you with us today. 888, 825. 5225 is the phone number. 888, 825-5225. Alongside the lovely Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman. You ready to go, partner?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm ready, partner. What a good day.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a good day. Lacey joins us first in Jacksonville, Florida. Lacy, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, I'm just trying to get advice. I'm kind of stuck financially. I purchased my home about 400,000 beginning of 2024. With the interest rates, it's not really affordable. I thought that I could refinance, but it's really, I make a good salary, but I'm kind of living paycheck to paycheck, unable to save the debt that I have. It's kind of just there, hanging around, not going anywhere. And I just want to get out of this house or I don't really have a solution to remedy this poor financial decision that I made for myself.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, Lacey, how much is your house payment every month?

[Caller]

3100.

[Rachel Cruz]

3100. And how much are you bringing home.

[Caller]

After taxes? I bring home about, let's see, 56.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh.

[Caller]

Hundred.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Yeah. You can't afford this house. I mean, how. Yeah, I mean that leaves you, yeah, 2,000 ish dollars per month. How much are your debt payments on everything else?

[Caller]

Usually over a thousand. My car Note is about 400 because I put down about 15,000 on my car, so I owe about 19. And then slowly, you know, throughout the last couple years, I used credit cards here and there. But when I initially purchased the home. Have any credit card debt? I did do an FHA mortgage, so I do have pmi. But yeah, it was definitely a poor financial. I just, I wanted a newer home and wanted a private office space. And I don't know, you know, I've looked at foreclosure, short sale, but the homes kind of, you know, a lot hasn't been taken off of, you know, besides my down payment because of how much is going towards interest. So, you know, it's still about 365 for sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, and I'm just wondering, even with your car payment and other debt, I mean, you probably only have $1,000 to do everything. Lacey, of to eat and to pay your bills. I mean, electricity and all of it. Are you going into credit card debt every month to keep just your basics afloat?

[Caller]

Yeah, basically. And then I. The cycle is vicious because, you know, I paid the payments, and then, you know, I'm broke, you know, within a week or less after I'm paid.

[Ken Coleman]

I just want to ask the obvious. Are you single?

[Caller]

I am single. I am.

[Ken Coleman]

Why did you pause? Is there. Is there something else we don't know? Yeah, there's something there. What's. What. What were you pausing about?

[Caller]

Well, I do have my boyfriend. I let him move in with me, but I don't know how long term that's going to be, and I don't really rely upon that. And his income is substantially less, so I don't really count.

[Ken Coleman]

Is he. Is he paying anything?

[Caller]

He does pay, you know, about 25 to 30%, but it's not enough to give me reprieve or to really make a dent. And the, you know what's on my plate, everything's in my name and.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, I get that. I'm sure we would never suggest otherwise. I just. I don't know why I decided to ask that. I had an inkling. But the point is, is he needs to be. If he's the roommate, I don't care what your relationship status is. He needs to be doing more than that, Rachel. Am I right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I mean, 25% in the short term, but I. But, I mean, you gotta get out of this house. Yeah, I would put this house up for sale.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's the. That's the play. Take whatever lumps you're gonna take on this. You gotta remove this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, and I would just go rent. Lacey, I would not be a homeowner. Your finances are all over the place. You have. So you have a $19,000 car loan. What's the. What credit card debt do you have? How much?

[Caller]

About 20,000 total. I added it up.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. What other debt is there?

[Caller]

Well, there's student loan debt, forbearance. It's about 100,000 total.

[Rachel Cruz]

What, you get your degree.

[Caller]

Nursing?

[Rachel Cruz]

Is that what you do now?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Why aren't you doing overtime?

[Caller]

Yeah, well, I. I work for private sector right now, but I do have. I'm about to start a second job to do bedside nursing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

But by the way, that's what you've got to do. I just want to throw that in real quick. Rachel, I know interrupted, but with your nursing skill, you have got to be working like a crazy woman right now. To the rest of this debt. Forget the house part, but we've got to clean up the house and then the rest of the stuff, but you've got to. There's no life for you. You are using a very valuable skill to be making as much money as possible. And by the way, we've had. I remember a debt free screen, Rachel. It was probably over a year ago and it was a travel nurse and she paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and she just worked like an absolute maniac. So I just want to give you that. Lacy. Sorry, Rachel.

[Caller]

I know you're so long.

[Ken Coleman]

What's that for?

[Caller]

How long?

[Ken Coleman]

She did it for about two and a half years. It was a short amount of time.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I mean, I would be looking into some creative solutions just to get your head above water. Lacey, if you. Do you know how much the house is worth right now? You.

[Caller]

That's the thing. It's worth about 385and I owe about 1,370on it because, like, much hasn't gone away. So I think that I'm gonna come out of negative.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, it may be a little bit negative, but I would rather do that and free up 3100 dol month. Now you'll have to pay rent somewhere, but even if you can find a place for 1800. Right. I mean, like, it just. This starts to free up.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, if you're shacking up with a boyfriend, he needs to pay half. Am I wrong about that?

[Rachel Cruz]

No. No, you're not.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. I just want to make sure it.

[Caller]

May not be long term because it's not really that beneficial to me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

What? He's not.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Well, kick him to the curb. Why do we. You have no life right now. You're working so hard. We don't have time for a boyfriend. Yeah, I'd kick him to the curb. He's a. Listen, he's a financial deadbeat anyway. I know. I mean, come on. Let's be honest. Any dude worth his weight and salt would have said, I'm going to pay half, babe. Right. But no, he's. He's. He's freeloading off of you to the two. 25%.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you say major turn off?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that. It's great.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So, Lacy, that. Yeah. This house is killing you. Okay? And I know you know that, but that's exactly what I would do. I would sell it, hopefully as soon as possible. I mean, obviously you don't want to be. You don't be too urgent because you don't want to, like, sell low, but get a great real estate agent. If you go to ramseysolutions.com and check out our ELPs, we have real estate agents all across the country and get someone who is good at this. This is what they do. They sell houses. They sell a lot of houses and you may take a small loss but that is going to be so worth it because it's going to free up your income and then you have to start attacking this debt. But in the meantime Lacy, make sure food shel to utilities, transportation is current. Don't get behind on the house. Make sure those things are current and then you got to step up with the income and you got to pay the set off you. Yeah, you have a good 2, 3, 4 year journey ahead of you. But, but, but I think it's bright and I think your future is bright and you can do this. It's just some hard big decisions you have to make with the house. And Ken's advice.

[Ken Coleman]

Sum it up. Two big decisions. We're kicking the boyfriend out and then we're listing the house. Very simple. Life's going to get better. You immediately. Amazon presents Kelly vs. Roommate's Deviated Septum. Absolutely. Annihilating a college student's sleep. A roommate snores can sound like a werewolf mid transformation. But Kelly shopped on Amazon and saved on a sleep machine weighted blanket and noise canceling earbuds. Looks like Kelly just got her doctorate degree in crushing sleep. Save the everyday with college deals on Amazon.

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[Ken Coleman]

All right. Let's go to Angela, who's joining us in Illinois. Angela, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, thank you so much for taking my phone call. So I'll give a short scenario of kind of what happened. So I'm a 36 year old female and my fiance passed on a motorcycle accident about a month and a half ago or so.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh, Angela, I'm so sorry.

[Ken Coleman]

My goodness.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's so.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

How long, how long have you guys were you guys together for about eight years.

[Caller]

And so. Yeah. And so being three weeks from us getting married, we set ourselves up for like a very strong financial future, just like if anything were to ever happen. So I received his life insurance policy and so I'm kind of in this, like, I didn't expect him to lose him this early and our journey together. And so I'm trying to find out at 36 years old and his life insurance policy was 3001000 and some change of that. And after all of our debt is paid, I'm sitting on a chunk of about $120,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

I make about $71,000 before taxes. I'm going to be getting a Social Security check for my son that we had together for essentially, you know, his Social Security. And then what's that amount? I have not had a conclusive amount yet, but I. They had estimated somewhere between 900 to $2,100 estimated per month. And because we weren't married, I don't get like a, you know, a part of that. But I, like I said to be 36 years old, I find myself in a position that I never really anticipated. Right.

[Ken Coleman]

How old is your son?

[Caller]

Like, he's five.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

So my heart is kind of telling me I'd like to build a generational wealth for us and then for him. And so I've been looking at like compound interest of that type of thing. And then everybody else is kind of like persuaded this idea of estates and what I should be doing with it. And I, I feel like at this point my taxes are relatively cheap, like right around $2,100 a year, electric, gas. I have all city amenities. But my house value, I would say right around like 170, $180,000. With two acres, five bedrooms. We just bought during COVID at a really great time. And so I just feel like my net worth has been, you know, post all of this. I just feel like I'm just really in a position that I, I don't want to be. I don't want to be weak in this $120,000. I feel like it's given an opportunity.

[Rachel Cruz]

Can I ask you something, Angela? Is because it goes from 301 to 120. Is that paying off the house?

[Caller]

That's paying off our house. Both vehicles that we have a camper.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you already done all that?

[Caller]

I'm in the midst of. I just paid off the camper because it had a higher interest rate than what I. We were planning on moving it over to a lower interest rate with my tech, with my work because I had a better credit union. And then the motorcycle that he passed on, he only held that debt. So that essentially is not part of this life insurance policy concept.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the only reason I asked, I didn't mean to rabbit trail you, but we want to make sure that you actually do this. This is great because that' to get you there to where you got 120 left. So the question is, what do you do with the 120? So with all the debt gone, you're going to need an emergency fund. Do you have. Did you already have an emergency fund for you because you guys were not married? What, What? Do you have any of that at all?

[Caller]

Yeah. And I think that's where I'm kind of stuck in that. Is that what of an emergency? I mean for me like, you know, three months worth of bills was where I was sitting with an emergency fund that we sit with cash inside of our safe. So that was just the idea. If anybody took anything out of our bank accounts. Okay, that was there.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, okay, that's not what we would tell you to do. And you know what three months expenses. Are you already done that?

[Rachel Cruz]

How much is it? How much would three months be?

[Caller]

Well, prior to all of the debt being paid off, it's right around $13,000. So.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're saying you already have that set aside in cash, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

Worried about the digital part, right. Of the being something being stolen. So just having it here.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Well, okay. Yeah. You can just put it in a high yield savings account. It's FDIC insured. You are safe. Yeah, you'll be good with that. And I would bump it up to 20 because you have a son. And again, just as some cushion. So I would put 20. 20 grand, which you already have 13. So it's an extra seven coming out. So that leaves you with a 113,000. And you know Angela, you could with this amount of money, I would. I would spread it over three different ways. And if you feel like you don't need to spend any of it and you just want to put it aside. You can totally do that. You could put the whole chunk of it just in, you know, an index fund and it would grow to probably 2, 3 million dollars by the time you're 65 without even touching it. So that in of itself would be a life changing account. Right. That you could just put away and not even look at, you know, barely even have to manage it. And so that's an option. You could also use some of this money and open up a 529 for your son and put a chunk of money in there and let that grow for him. So when it's time for college, that he has $100,000, you know, 120 sitting in there for college, you know, there's some things you can definitely do. But I will say 113, it'll go fast, like when you start to actually kind of divvy it out. But I. The amount of intentionality with it, I feel from you because it's from him. Right. I'm like, you want this legacy of him, of your fiance, the love of your life, the father of your son to live on. Well, and so there's different ways you could do that from giving, saving and spending some of it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I agree with Rachel. What do you have as far as 401k or any type of retirement accounts?

[Caller]

Yeah, so when we purchased the house, I did pull a little bit of money from my 401k but right now, I mean, my 401k is growing. I apologize. I did not look before the circumstance. But I mean, I do plan on continuing to work just because I just. There's just, you know, intentionality of just having health insurance for my son. And then also I would like. My idea of this compound interest is where my brain sort of.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Caught on to.

[Ken Coleman]

I think Rachel's advice is great. Here's what I would add. I would tell you too, if you don't have a, a true smartvestor pro in your Life, go to ramseysolutions.com and go interview three or four or five. Find out which one you click with the most. This is just all about some basic likability, chemistry thing. And then get their opinions, have them because we've told you and we'll recap what we would do with the 113. I'm with Rachel. That's the number I've got because the 7's going to get your emergency fund up to where I think it's the right number. So let's say you 113 to work with. I would get a smartvestor. I get multiple. Tell them what they would do with it and explain it to her. You get it. But I'm with Rachel. I would, what I would do is I would ask a smartvestor pro, okay, I got a 5 year old. How much money of the 113 would catch them up? Assuming I was, let's say a hundred thousand was our goal. You can talk through this. Okay, well, he's five, I'm five years behind. So how much of the 113 do I put in that would catch him up? They can give you that number. And then what do I need to put in, you know, monthly or do I take a lump sum here and go. All right, because you got the 900, let's say the minimum Social Security payments. 900, you said it was between 9 and 20.

[Rachel Cruz]

100.

[Ken Coleman]

I talked to them about that too. And go, do I put in a lump sum out of the 113, Rachel, into the 529 and then take the, the entire or a good portion of the Social Security check and put that in? That's for him.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And then you take the rest of the. Let's say it's 100. Just for conversation. I'm with Rachel. I would invest that and let that just build because we don't have to run the investment calculator. But I'm telling you that's going to double every seven years. That's what the historical return is. And so you're a young lady. And so that 100,000 boosts you and gets you really going above and beyond what you're already doing with the 15% as we teach here in baby step four. But I think you've got a clear cut strategy. But I think you should sit down with professional and get them to partner with you. And let's use this wisely and not.

[Rachel Cruz]

To, you know, Ken just said this and I don't think we've said it in the call, Angela, but consistently now I want you investing 15% of your income into retirement above and beyond this 113. Okay, so that's going to be Roth IRAs, your 401k. And if you're doing that through your income and you have a jump start, maybe, maybe take some of this and in the smartvestor program and say, hey, yeah, take you know, 70,000 of it and let's fund your 401 or your Roth for the year and you know, you can find some smart ways to move it around. But I do think your your initial reaction of investing in this compound interest I think is really wise. And that's where that's probably where I would lean for sure whether investing for your son's future part of it with college, you for retirement in the future and also for that emergency fund. So gosh, Angela, I'm so sorry that this money came and how it came, but I appreciate your dil.

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[Ken Coleman]

Homebuyer Edge and Seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and are not available in all states or locations. NMLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumerexcess.org/housing lender all right, folks, the 2026 Ramsey Goal Planner is here. I feel like Roger Goodell announcing the NFL draft. Very exciting. The 2026. Let me get this. Oh my gosh, it's heavy. This is a, this is not a one arm planner.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's a heavy note.

[Ken Coleman]

To those of you who love planners, this is going to require you doing some basic weightlifting. This is unbelievable. And I guess we're offering it at 35.97. It's a curious price. A little bit less than $36. And I'm telling you folks, you could hurt a person.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I think this is the lowest price.

[Ken Coleman]

So you moms out there could use this as a paddle. Does anybody do that anymore?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't think so. I was thinking More self defense.

[Ken Coleman]

I. I know I'm old school. Someone comes like, well, if you're in a dark alley, ladies, this bring out this spiral thing here. Yeah. That'll cut a man.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, and we're cut him because it's launching now. It is the lowest price and it will continue to go up because these are very. They're very valuable planners. But we do a quick. We do a quick launch early on with lowest price.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what I like. Little ruler here on the inside. Gets me back to the Trapper Keeper days.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

I wish I had some Velcro.

[Rachel Cruz]

A little Velcro. That's what I was going to say.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what? 20, 27, we need a Trapper Keeper option.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yes. I'll talk retro.

[Ken Coleman]

But now Rachel's right. If you don't get this before Labor Day, the price is going up. In fact, it's going up so much that it's not even on my notes here. So that tells me it's going up.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ken Coleman]

So you better get it right now for $35.97.

[Rachel Cruz]

So it has content in it from John, John Deloney, myself and Jade Warshaw. Relationships, spirituality, your money. And then there's also obviously all the calendars from, like the month, outlook, a.

[Ken Coleman]

Lot of tabs to the lot of.

[Rachel Cruz]

Tabs to the weekly. All of it. But the planner world, Ken. It's a world out there. There are women that live in this world.

[Ken Coleman]

Can you detect?

[Rachel Cruz]

And it is.

[Ken Coleman]

I can't stand. My wife still uses one of these. She loves this. I know when we do dates. Yeah, I'm on my phone. She's over here with this flipping, flipping her calendar open. I know it, but I do get it. My wife loves this. Stacy's gonna be thrilled.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's beautiful.

[Ken Coleman]

I might take this one. James, can I take this one home? Surprise. Stacey, you may not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

James says no. That's show props.

[Rachel Cruz]

You can buy your own.

[Ken Coleman]

I love it.

[Rachel Cruz]

It was so polite and at the lowest price ever.

[Ken Coleman]

$35.97 only at ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store. Maybe Kelly, the associate producer will get a free one. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know if it's a perk. You have to talk to James. All right, Lori's up next in Canada. Lori, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. Rachel, it's nice to talk to you again. I was on the phone with you and Jade about a month or so. Ago. And so I'm hoping to expand a little bit on my question a little bit. I did follow your advice. My question was whether to get a mobile home or rent.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, I remember this. Yes, yes.

[Ken Coleman]

And what did Rachel tell you?

[Caller]

To get around to it. But I am following your advice. And now my question comes. There's a new question that comes up actually. So I'm 27 years old. I have about $28,000 in student debt. I earn about $4,000 a month after tax. And so I'll be relocating three hours away for a job currently living with family rent free. And now with that move, I'll be renting. I was going to be done baby step two in March of 2026. But now with this move I'm going to be delaying. Delaying my debt free date by 12 to 14 months. Just based on the numbers I've crunched.

[Ken Coleman]

You making less money?

[Caller]

Well, no. Well, I'll be renting now and right now I'm not renting at all.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. You're living free. That's right. Okay, so we have $1200 increase. What about the income increase?

[Caller]

I'm not increasing income yet. There's a few variables that are still unknown. But I should know soon if I will be getting an increase in income in a few months. Okay, but like I have a part time job right now. I'll be losing that. It's just creating a lot of anxiety and fear around paying off debt. I feel really demoralized about.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so hold on. So hold on, what's demoralizing you? Is it the increase in cost because you're living for free now? And is it also that you're losing this part time job? Is that, are those the sources of feeling demoralized because I'm going backwards.

[Caller]

It's more so just a debt free date that's being pushed back by so much like.

[Ken Coleman]

But those are the two reasons. Are those the two primary reasons I'm setting you up. Those are the two primary reasons why you're moving the date, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so let's look at how we would maybe not move the date. Okay, first of all, we don't know yet what your increase in income is going to be. True or false?

[Caller]

True.

[Ken Coleman]

True. And there are part time jobs where you're moving. True or false?

[Caller]

True. It has been very difficult though. I've been applying actually prematurely just in hopes to get some responses, but I have yet to receive anything.

[Ken Coleman]

How much? Okay, I get it. But let's have a mindset here that I. It is possible, isn't it true that it's possible that you can find a part time job at some point upon moving? Is that possible?

[Caller]

It is.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. Now tell Rachel and I how much money of that income that you're bringing home that you told us how much of that is from the part time job.

[Caller]

It's not actually. So with the part time job I get an additional like 500 to $1,000 a month. I don't work a lot of hours where I'm currently in my personal job, so.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

And also we're in the low season right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So what I would tell you Laurie is, is to find something that you make twelve hundred dollars a month. And, and that's part of this baby step two process. It's cutting all expenses and bringing in extra income and it's scorched earth. So instead of it extending an additional 12 months because you were going to be out by March, which is pretty soon, I mean that's, you know, six months.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is that right? Eight months. Eight months. I had to, I had to count the months real quick, make sure that was correct. So in. Yeah. So eight months. And now you're saying it's going to be an additional year because of you don't have a part time job right now and the rent. So what I would make it a goal is to say it may not be March, but it's going to be June. Like it's not going to be another year.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[Rachel Cruz]

And work like crazy. All you have to do for eight months, eight months, all you got to do is just is, is spend nothing, you know, take your expenses all the way down. And then that extra, that extra income is what is key for a lot of people that get out of debt. That's what we find. And again, it's not forever.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

But it's literally just through the Christmas season into the spring and then you have your end date and you're good.

[Ken Coleman]

And Lori, what about a roommate?

[Caller]

I've considered those options. I asked around, friends and things like that. I. There have been been anybody interested.

[Ken Coleman]

Lori, listen, let me tell you what's going on. And I'm saying, can I be big brother here? You have the spirit of I can't do it. It's so hard. And I love that you called back and I love that you're being honest with us, but you're. Every time we present a solution to you and the way you set the entire call up is I'm overwhelmed. Which means, and I've talked To a lot of overwhelmed people, people in my time at Ramsey Solutions. And the reason they're overwhelmed is because they don't believe. They don't believe. Okay, so what we've been attempting to do is to go, wait a second, is it possible? And that was my little game that I did with you a little bit earlier because I. The thing that's going on with you is you've actually done so well. You're committed and now you've had a change of life and it has thrown you off. But this is all mindset. This is not some like, like kumbaya technique. I'm trying to tell you, I'm telling you, you've got to go. Wait a second. This is how I feel. That's real. And I don't in any way want to minimize your emotions however you feel that way because you've not allowed your mind to actually look for solutions. You just saw Roadblock. I gotta move now. Now I'm not getting rent free. I'm actually paying rent. Well, welcome to the real world. You've been living in La La land with no rent. Good for you. But this is real life. This is not the end of the world. Okay, so Rachel and I've walked you through these scenarios and I'm telling you I want to encour, encourage you. You can find a roommate, you can find a part time job. And if you do those things, as Rachel said, you won't have to push back the timeline. And dare I say, if you get a roommate, I think you can beat the debt free payoff.

[Rachel Cruz]

Go even earlier.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's cut it from 1200 to 600.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Yeah. There. And Lori, I want you to know that this is possible. You know, you're not trying to find $10,000 a month. Month. It's. It's a thousand bucks. You can do it. You can do it. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

So go, you know, take this situation and, and say I'm going to happen to it, not let it happen to me. We believe in you. You got this. Amazon presents Scotty versus Geology 101 paper. A mountain of an assignment. The Geology 101 paper can turn an all dayer into an all nighter and an all nighter into an all morninger. But Scotty shopped on Amazon and saved on a laptop, sticky notes and a mini fridge full of energy drinks. Hey, paper. Scotty's got you on the ropes. Carbon date that save the everyday with college deals on Amazon.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Ken Coleman]

Fairwinds is federally insured by the ncu. All right. If you not sure how you're doing on staying in step with the baby steps, we have a quick quiz that allow you to check your progress and get a personalized plan. Go to the Show Notes. If you're listening via Podcast and YouTube, click on the link titled are you on track with the baby steps? Quick little quiz and that'll let you know where you stand. It's very important that you understand in any kind of process oriented goal. Okay. I'm on this path that there are going to be just times in life where you just feel like you're off step and seeing where you stand. Knowing where you stand is really huge to mentally getting back on track. So you can keep going. So that's a fabulous little quiz. We'd love for you to join us there. Leo is up in San Diego, California. Leo, how can we help today?

[Caller]

How you doing? Thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure, sure.

[Caller]

So me and my wife were newlyweds. Been married and got married February 14th.

[Ken Coleman]

Congrats.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh hello. Valentine's Day wedding.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah it was, was good. We've been together a total about three and a half years. We've been. We got our own apartment about a little about two years ago and our mother in law, well she wasn't my mother in Law at first, but. But she decided. She offered to help us with rent. So we took her up on an offer, and everything was going good until we got married. A couple of months after we got married, she started harassing my wife, like, through text message. Like, just all kinds of. Just mean and dirty. Just vile things. Just like, just mean things. And then.

[Ken Coleman]

That's fun.

[Caller]

So she.

We basically decided to just, you know, kind of just decline her help because she was kind of putting stipulations on it. Like, one, she called and said, if you want our rent, if you want my half of the rent this month, you had to prove to me xyz. Which was no problem because we proved it to her, but it would, you know, was just like out of nowhere, you know?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, she out of nowhere started harassing her own daughter. This woman's cray cray.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you know she was crazy before you married?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

I tried.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't ever, ever, ever fight your instinct on relationship stuff with family members, because if the crazy is in the family, there's more crazy is going to show up. So let's. Let's move forward on this and put up a boundary.

[Rachel Cruz]

She can't. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes. We. Our boundary was blocking her, so that was. That's that. But ever since. Ever since. Before. Before we decided to stop taking her help, we were doing great with staying up on. Staying up. Our bills were paid on time. Everything was good. But we didn't save. We didn't save anything. My wife was saying, hey, we need to save, but me being bad with money. We made. I made very bad decisions, and we ended up in a situation where we didn't have any. We weren't ready for this situation that we were in.

[Ken Coleman]

You weren't ready for it, period. Because I just want to rewind real quick. You got. You've said twice now that you guys were great at paying everything while she was giving you money, which means you were never great because you didn't have enough money to pay your. Exactly. So. Exactly.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so where do we stand today? Her money's gone. Thank goodness. How short are you?

[Caller]

Okay, so we are paying the rent, but we are late every month. So every check we're. We're coming up with, like, we're catching up. So this next month, first of the month, we're going to be short. We'll catch up.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. How much. How much do you guys make per month? What are you both bringing?

[Caller]

We.

Between us, we bring probably, oh, I don't know, the month between us. I just did the yearly. The yearly between both of us is 50k between the boat.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you guys do for a list?

[Caller]

I do aerospace manufacturing and she's a barista in a hotel.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. I love that you said you do aerospace manufacturing, but let's get real. What is your job? You're only making $25,000 a year average between the two of you, what are you doing?

[Caller]

I do, I do deburring, which is like the lowest. I am currently in training. Like, I do have CNC experience. I'm in training. Like within the next year. I do plan on moving up. I'm in the process of moving up to a 2 CNC position. How much would you come with a raise? Probably about 2 or $3 more. Probably about 25 at 28 at the max. I'm guessing that's after, you know, I get some schooling and more training.

[Rachel Cruz]

How old are you guys?

[Caller]

I am 39. We're both 39.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, 39.

[Ken Coleman]

And you guys, you don't even know what you make. So it's really hard for Rachel to coach you up on. We. You don't even know how much you make. You're just giving us, we got a fifty thousand dollar figure. So what debt?

[Rachel Cruz]

Here's what, here's what's got to happen. Leo, I'm gonna be really honest with you, okay? If Ken and I were out to drinks with you and you're in your newlywed watch, wife, this is what we would. This is what, this is what I would say to you.

[Ken Coleman]

Cocktail wisdom. Here comes.

[Rachel Cruz]

I would say everything you've known and thought and done with money. We're going to do the complete opposite.

[Ken Coleman]

Good decision.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Meaning you don't really know where your money's going. You don't really know how much you make or bring in a month. That's going to change. You're going to know to the scent because you are going to be so detailed, so intense, so OCD about your money and where everybody dollar is going that you're going to be able to rattle off what you guys spend at the grocery store every week. Okay? Because you guys are going to have a very, very detailed budget. And we're going to give you some stuff, Leo, to help you, to help this happen. Okay? But that's.

[Caller]

We've been trying to.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I'm gonna be honest too, Leo. You guys, you know, your jobs, what you're making, you guys need to be making double. So she's working as a barista. If I were her, I would be applying to be a receptionist somewhere. Right? Go be an assistant to someone. Like, go. You have to be in this position because you're both adults now. And, and if you want to have a family and you guys want to, you know, extend your lives, these incomes have to go up, which means probably a change of career, probably more for her. Yours sounds like it hopefully has some.

[Caller]

Well, taking off. It's taking off. She has kids, so. We already have kids in the. Like, they're her kids. They're my step kids. Okay, so we. Their kids are definitely in the. They're not full time with us. It's okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, hold on. We have limited. No, no, you're great. We're trying to help you. How much do you make per hour?

[Caller]

Okay. Do you know that I make $21 an hour?

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so a year from now, you think or believe you're gonna get a two to three dollar an hour raise?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

That's not, that's not a career. Yeah, but that's not a career. That's taken off.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

You're not taking off. You're on the doorstep of 40 and you've got to get serious. I'm not beating up on you. I'm just going, dude, like, you've got to have a plan that moves you forward not a year from now to a two to three dollar raise. Okay? Yes, same thing. So we need to collectively get together and say, what do we want for our lives? What's a target?

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

What must be true for us to make a hundred thousand dollars combined. You guys, time is moving, bro.

[Caller]

Yes, you're right, you're right, you're right.

[Ken Coleman]

We don't have time at 39 to wait a year to make a two to three dollar bump.

[Rachel Cruz]

And Leo, what do you guys owe on your cars? What do y' all own your cars?

[Caller]

So, okay, so I own my vehicle that I purchased under a year ago, but it's giving me issues. So getting a second job has been mean. It's a possibility. But just you're having.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no, no. See, that's the problem.

[Rachel Cruz]

What is. What, what is she. What is she on hers?

[Caller]

Her. She owes 1500 on her car.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, okay, okay. What. What other debt do you guys have? Credit card. We have 1500 one credit total is what she owes. That's what's left on her loan for her.

[Caller]

Yes, great.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, great, great.

[Caller]

Our debt and credit is all. We only have her credit card debt, which is $8,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, okay, okay, okay. So tonight.

[Caller]

And that's all our day.

[Rachel Cruz]

All your. That's great. That's awesome. Okay, so I would cut up the credit cards. Don't even make it a temptation. Your goal for.

[Caller]

We don't even have a balance on our credit cards.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's great. We'll cut them up anyways. I don't. Well, you have a balance. You got $8,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

I mean, like, we don't have anything available to. To spend on it, so. You're right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like, oh, it's max out.

[Ken Coleman]

You said it like, that's a good thing. Can I just say you don't. It's not a good thing.

[Caller]

It's not a good thing. I'm embarrassed about it.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, Leo. Okay, so, no, you're doing. This is great. Okay, so here's what I want you to do when you get off this call, okay? You both need to apply for second jobs. Your goal is to get $1,000 emergency funds. Okay. In the next 60 days, 30 days, 40 days, and catching up on rent. Those are your two goals. Emergency funds and catching up on rent with the second job should. Should help free up some of that cash. And then once that happens, you guys start paying off this debt. Smallest to largest, the car and then the credit cards. You can do this. Leo, stay on the line. Kelly's going to pick up. We'll give you some stuff.

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[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady, and she had three kids pregnant, and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right. If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out, how am I going to afford child care? How do I. How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like. And. And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like, when you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills, how am I gonna go next week? Yeah. In the middle of all that grief, like, it's just. It is. It's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm, like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re upping it because I'm like, I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much.

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[Rachel Cruz]

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

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[Ken Coleman]

This is the Ramsey show where we help you win with your money, winning your work and winning your relationships. Alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. Happy to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation is 888-255-225. Meg is up next in Utah. Meg, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. My fiance is asking me to spend and my life saving from before I met him into renovating his parents home.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you asked him if he's lost his ever loving mind?

[Caller]

Well, I saved the money for a car and we had a baby. So we live in said home. We plan on purchasing said home, but we haven't done any of those things yet.

[Ken Coleman]

You just rolled right by my very pertinent and relevant question. Meg, your life savings, how much is that?

[Caller]

That's 30k.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And you just blitzed right by my question. I'm serious. What emotion, what thoughts entered your mind when this guy said this to you?

[Caller]

Mixed emotions. When I feel like if I purchase the home first, I'd feel better about spending my life savings on it.

[Ken Coleman]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. I thought it was your. I thought it was his parents home.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, but then she said they're gonna die it. When are y' all gonna buy it?

[Caller]

Well, we're looking at doing that last year. Then his parents were feeling bad about the fact that it would cost me 30k to essentially buy the loan. Once, you know, everybody's why are y'.

[Rachel Cruz]

All doing this deal? I don't understand. Why don't you just go buy a house?

[Caller]

So where I live, 30k does not really get you anywhere to purchase a home. The average home in a neighborhood is.

[Rachel Cruz]

Probably giving you the home.

[Caller]

No. Okay, Essentially giving us equity on the home.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. First of all, you guys are not married. So that's your money, not his money. And in no situation should you give your money to his parents. To renovate a home that you may or may not have in this is going to turn into an absolute nightmare. What about the car you've been saving up for a car that you need? Yes.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Like. Like, how bad do you need this car?

[Caller]

Not super bad. I work remote.

[Ken Coleman]

But is your current car failing is what I'm getting at?

[Caller]

No, I have a lease and my lease ends in December and I'm not willing to purchase.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. This $30,000 is your money. Full stop, period. You need to use it for your stuff. Now, the day that he puts a ring on your finger and you guys get mar. Join finances.

[Rachel Cruz]

When are you getting married? It's your fiance?

[Caller]

I don't know. I have a six month old at home, so one day when I sleep at night.

[Ken Coleman]

One day when you can sleep at night.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I'm assuming that's his baby, correct?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Why doesn't he have any money?

[Caller]

He does now, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, then why does he need your money?

[Caller]

Well, he does now, but he has a lot of credit card debt that he needs to take care of. I was helping with that when I had a whole lot more money, but I stopped working three jobs when I had a baby, so now we make about the same.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, you called to ask us what we thought about this, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, I know what you thought about it. You gave me the mixed emotions. Why don't you just tell us what you really felt? Felt? What did you feel when he hit you with that?

[Caller]

I felt like this is a dumb idea.

[Ken Coleman]

Great. You are correct.

[Caller]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what Rachel and I think.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oddly enough, Meg wins.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me pull the audience out here. We got about 50 people out there. If you think this is a dumb idea, raise your hand. Everybody in the audience, we got a.

[Rachel Cruz]

Lot of hands raised.

[Ken Coleman]

Meg, there's your focus group.

[Rachel Cruz]

So. So, number one, Meg, we do not combine finances. We do not share finances. We do not pay on each other's debts and. Or homes or future in law homes. We do nothing combining. Until we are married, you have no financial obligation to help him. And you have no protection. If you guys were married and something happened, then we can get Utah State involved and we can figure that out with assets and everything. But you have no protection, Mag. Okay, so number one, no combining finances. Number two, it's. I would go this weekend. Meg, if you love him and you think he's the one. You got a six month old together, you're living together. I think you just go get a marriage license. You only get married. You need to start this life you've. You're in, you're acting married. Just go do it. Do a wedding later, whatever the celebration is like. You guys need to start actually living in the reality of which you live. And so if I were you, and if you love him, right. You want to marry him, right?

[Caller]

I love him. I don't love how he handles money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, then there's a red flag.

[Ken Coleman]

This is a great reason not to marry him.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Caller]

Yes. Because when his debt is my debt and I've lived debt free.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, does he. Is he, Is he on board of trying to get out of debt? Because you said you were trying to help him pay off debt and you gave him some money to pay off debt. Is he working his way out of debt?

[Caller]

He has some. What's. What's a nice way to say it? Interesting ideas on how to get out of debt. He has a philosophy of. My goal in life is that in one year we don't have to have this conversation about money because I'll be making so much more that we don't have to worry about it.

[Ken Coleman]

This is what I thought in high school. I thought that one day I would be able to dunk a basketball. Just kind of thought it would happen. Never happened, Rachel.

[Rachel Cruz]

And money magnifies the situation. You're never not going to have to not talk about it because you make money.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. This guy. This is a tough situation. You need to define the relationship. This. That's what needs to happen here. Number one. No, I'm not giving you money. This is crazy. I don't feel comfortable marrying you until we get on the same page with money. So therefore putting money into a future thing. No, no, no.

[Rachel Cruz]

Definitely love you.

[Ken Coleman]

No. Did I mention that I love you? No. All right, that's first thing. And I'm not kidding. I actually don't want you to go down to the courthouse. And Rachel doesn't either now.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I don't. But I hate that you guys have a six month old. I mean, like, you know, my hope.

[Ken Coleman]

Is we don't want to further complicate it.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, we don't. But I do hope that you guys work to mend this for the sake of the six month old and for your. For your futures together.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. Well, if I had him on the phone, I go, do you love this woman? And hopefully he'd say yes. And I go, why don't you throw out all your cockamamie ideas that don't require you to do hard work and work for a while to get successful. And why don't you ask your fiance what she thinks about money and why she thinks about it?

[Rachel Cruz]

Because she has 30,000 doll dollars because.

[Ken Coleman]

She'S doing it better than you, Sparky.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, 100.

[Ken Coleman]

And so you know that that's what needs to happen. He needs to man up, you know.

[Caller]

Yeah. And for the most part is okay. I mentioned I can just manage money. I'm great at managing money. I'm with saving money. I can get us wherever we want.

[Ken Coleman]

Well then tell him if he wants to marry you, that you're going to manage the money and he's going to be in the budget meeting. But he's going to sit there, he's going to learn, right? Like if he's willing to let you. If he's willing to marry you and we now adopt your money principles. If this guy's really willing to do it, which by the way, he would need to show that to you if you were my sister, I'd go, don't you even dare marry this clown until he shows you that he is willing to get on board with you and then live his life that way for a minimum of six months. So yeah, Meg, I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Yeah, I tried to have those conversations. It's just.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well maybe he needs to know that you're not going to stick around. You know, define the relationship.

[Rachel Cruz]

Rachel, what do you give him money? That's my number one mag. No, you're not crazy or mean by not putting your $30,000 into his parents home.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, I was gonna ask James if I should get ordained so I could marry couple on the spot for future situations like this. But now I would have said no.

[Rachel Cruz]

Meg, we would have not.

[Ken Coleman]

No marriage.

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[Ken Coleman]

Our question of the day is brought to you by our friends at Y Refi. You didn't take out private student loans hoping to default, but life does happen. But why? Refi is not going to shame you. They're going to help you explore a real plan to get back on track. You can head to why refi.comramsey to find out how they can help you. That's the letter Y, r e f y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[Rachel Cruz]

Today's question comes from Renee in New York. Why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents home so young? Isn't it better for them to work, live at home and save their money so they can buy a place to live when they move? Why move out to pay a landlord for a place to live? How will they ever achieve the American dream of home ownership? If kids are working hard and saving, what's the advantage of moving out? There are other ways to achieve a sense of dignity and independence than throwing money away at rent every month.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, boy. Well, Renee, are you sure your name's not Karen? Because that sounds a little woke to me. I mean, this is why we have so many snowflakes. Because of this woman has raised snowflakes. That's my part of the answer. I think that's it. What do you think this is? Okay, what do you think? So, all right. So, okay, so it's not a math.

[Rachel Cruz]

At that point, it's not a math issue because there's something about. And she says there's other ways to have dignity, independence, maybe to a degree. But there's also something about being a full.

[Ken Coleman]

What? They clean their room? They're cleaning their room. You know, when our maid service came in, they commented about our oldest son Jimmy, about his toilet was spotless. Jimmy, he's doing great, mom. Way to go. I mean, this whole question is so. I'm not. Listen. This is pathetic.

[Rachel Cruz]

And questions plural. She's very mad.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, I'll break this down. Well, she's getting me mad. Okay, here we go. Why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents home so young? At any point on the show, has any one of us ever recommended that some kid move out in their teens? The answer to that Is no, pull the archives. We're talking about people that are out of college and are old enough to live on their own and they have a job.

[Rachel Cruz]

And we say first some they don't.

[Ken Coleman]

Have a job, they need to move.

[Rachel Cruz]

Out and for a season. It's okay. We're not like hardcore about it.

[Ken Coleman]

We are not.

[Rachel Cruz]

But there is a point that, that people that live with their parents for a endless amount of time, to quote unquote, just save money, you lose the life lessons, you lose life, you lose. And the dating thing too. Ken. I always go back to that. Could you imagine 26 year old guy and you're like, okay, where should we go after dinner? You want to go see a movie? You gotta, gotta go to my parents house.

[Ken Coleman]

There was a movie about this with Matthew McConaughey and Sarah Jessica Parker. One of my all time favorite rom coms, incidentally.

[Rachel Cruz]

Matthew McConaughey, what a gem.

[Ken Coleman]

And the whole thing is that the parents didn't want him to leave. And let me tell you something about Renee. Renee doesn't want her kids to leave. And so it's all in here. Let me go with this one. This is my favorite one here. Why move out only to pay a landlord for a place to live? Because that's what every other freaking American does until they can afford a home. And it's called personal responsibility. But no, there are other ways to achieve a sense of dignity and independence. I mean this has got a little bit of like Ben Franklin to it. Like she's really pinning this away and then, then throwing your money away on rent every month. And I'm gonna let you because you're so much nicer than me. Why do we think that renting is not throwing money away?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I know.

[Ken Coleman]

I want you to say more.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're buying time. You don't own it. So you're not like responsible for every expense. And homeownership is expensive. So rent for a little bit. Little bit, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

There, there's no dignity or independence. If you can afford to move out and you got a job and just come on. I'm so tired of all of this.

[Rachel Cruz]

For a short period of time, I'm okay with it. Right? Like if you graduate college, you need six months at home to figure out a place to live. And like I get that, like that is fine. It's not, we're not that legalistic about it. But this endless amount to just save money and I'm going to go live and my parents until I'm 26, 27.

[Ken Coleman]

And by the way Renee says. And she goes until they have enough for down payment. Well, okay, let's run the numbers on that. That's not a two year play. No, just if you look at housing. So that's why some of you who are hearing me and you're now offended by me. One, I don't care. And two, I'm actually basing on real numbers based on this woman's question. You do not have a one year or a year and a half or two year scenario. This is going to be years in the making with them living in the nest. And this is the real issue. A lot of parents don't want their kids to leave. Yeah, because they don't. Now, now I'm really.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, I can't wait.

[Ken Coleman]

You know why?

[Rachel Cruz]

Codependence. What?

[Ken Coleman]

It's. It's a form of codependence. But they do not like the life that they will have when the kids are gone.

[Rachel Cruz]

They're holding on for their worried about.

[Ken Coleman]

What life is like with their spouse when the kiddos are gone. They have. They have. They have. I'm just telling you, that's what it is.

[Rachel Cruz]

And those little moms, which. I'm a mom of a little boy. I get it.

[Ken Coleman]

You want Charles living with you when he's 24.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, not for his sake, but I do help him a lot more than I help my girls at this age.

[Ken Coleman]

Why is that?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know. He's just so sweet.

[Ken Coleman]

Your girls are darling. But why do you. Why do you Prince Charles?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know. It's a mother son thing. I don't know. But I will go above and beyond for him. More so than the girls.

[Ken Coleman]

But bottom line is we don't kick people out. It's not our decision. We're just hosting a. That you listen to, you do what you want, but we don't. For. We don't tell people to kick their kids.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I think one of the top three for me, besides it's the. It's the romantic relationships. I'm not going to lie that it's one of the. I think it's a very unattractive thing.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you mean?

[Rachel Cruz]

If you were. If I was single and dating.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know what I'm saying.

[Ken Coleman]

And the dude's living with his parents.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah. And vice. I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

You might as well have a giant sweatshirt that says loser on. Which, by the way, way, based on the last call, I want to circle back to this because there are people that are watching and listening. I'M going to be serious for a moment. Okay? There are people that are watching and listening to us. And we are we, we blown away that you let us into your ears and give you advice. But I want to say this just because I'm. I'm. Now I'm that guy.

[Rachel Cruz]

I love it. Go, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm 51. If you are a woman and you are single right now and you are dating a dude, dude who you are attracted to, I don't care what the reasons are, but you know somewhere in your gut that he doesn't have his act together. Would you please have the dignity to press pause and put it on the line for him and go. I'm concerned because if you follow your heart and don't listen to your gut and you marry a loser or you have a baby with a loser because you're not responsible enough to protect that romantic moment, you are going to pay big time financial and emotional consequences. So we just don't say it enough. I just want to go, listen, ladies, listen to your heart. Get some guys into your gut, I mean, to your gut, and get some people in your life who go, he's a really attractive, charismatic loser. But it's the last word that's the operating word, Rachel. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not angry. I'm not. But I mean, yeah, please. These romantic decisions lead to massive relationship and financial decisions.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, yes, please, 100%.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't. Don't hop in the sack with a loser. This is a great life rule.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's all he wanted to say.

[Ken Coleman]

Is it not a good rule to live by?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, it goes for guys, too.

[Rachel Cruz]

Probably very old school in that scenario.

[Ken Coleman]

So don't hop in a set woman. That's crazy. Crazy. Because then you procreate, create crazy, and then you're stuck with it. I mean, it's like this show's about winning with money. Here's one of the rules. Don't procreate with crazy. Don't live with somebody who's a loser. You would be surprised at how wealthy you could become.

[Rachel Cruz]

But I do think you. What?

[Ken Coleman]

Am I right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, yes, because we get these calls a lot from the room, from the relational side.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And it's all back to those two rules.

[Rachel Cruz]

They tell us scenarios and we're like, what are you doing with them? Or her? Like, she's. She sounds terrible or he sounds terrible. And I think either, number one, you just don't have people in your life that are going to say it. Or there's not enough. You're so deep in it that there's no mirror. You can't see out of it. You don't see a difference. You need someone else, which is why they're calling two strangers. Right. Which we appreciate.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. By the way. You hear.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You hear it in their voice. You go, why are you with them? And they're kind of like, here's what happens when you sell your dignity for companionship. You sell your gut, you sell your values. Any of those scenarios. When you sell that for that emotional feeling that person provides, you are setting yourself up for relation and relational and financial disaster. So somebody had to say it. I think this is Life Skills 101. What I just said there is not new, nor is it that deep, but boy, oh boy, is it right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Common sense not so common anymore.

[Ken Coleman]

Not anymore. Hey, if you are tired of living paycheck to pay paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, we'd love for you to join one of our free every Dollar trainings. New trainings every week this month. And they're hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. They're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find $9,000 of margin using everydollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth and you get to ask questions. So this isn't just like a webinar where they're talking at you. They're going to get to talk with you. Sign up for [e-mail] webinar webinar ramseysolutions.com webinar Mark is joining us now in Birmingham. Mark, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, appreciate you guys taking my call. How's it going?

[Ken Coleman]

We're doing well, sir. How are you today?

[Caller]

Pretty good, Pretty good. So just to get right into it, I'm preparing to get my ditch snowball rolling. And I have, I have roughly like 10 to $11,000 in this. Not credit cards or vehicle payments, like just personal debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much more did you say? How much?

[Caller]

Between 10 and 11,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I have a payment, 9,600 of it is. Is the IRS. I have a payment arrangement a month.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

And the rest is like personal debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

My wife has student, student loans, like 23,000. I pay all the bills. I take home like 4,300amonth. And I take care of everything. Her money is her money. Me. And so my question is, do I focus on. On just my day and then like, move on to the next baby steps and, you know, start Investing in the emergency fund and then like, you know, trying to save for a home or do I include. Include her debt with mine all at once? You get what I'm saying?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep, I do know what you're saying. My question to you is, why don't you guys combine finances and have. Have a checking account where all of your money goes in and you guys decide how to best use the household money?

[Caller]

Just, I mean, just being honest is because of the irs. Like, when we got married, I was a. I was an owner operator for. I was driving trucks. I still drive trucks, but at the time I was on operator, and I told her I was being straight up with her. Like, look, you know, I got this issue with the irs, so she didn't want to file joint jointly because of that, if she didn't want to, you know, kind of, I guess, jam herself up. But I do, like, we do have a joint account where I deposit all the money, like, and then, like, she can pay bills out of and stuff like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, well, if you guys combine a checking account, that doesn't affect the irs, that's. Is it more of a trust issue with her from you that you didn't do what you said you were going to do or you got behind on taxes and she doesn't trust you with her money.

[Caller]

Right. It was, it was just me being irresponsible. I mean, it wasn't her money.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I know, I know. But that's what I'm saying though, is if you guys come combined finances into a checking account and saw it as a household budget, the IRS isn't affected by that. That doesn't change your taxes. So I'm just curious if. Yeah, if. Yeah, if everything's in the same checking account, that doesn't change your taxes. So.

[Caller]

Oh, so even if we file, like, even when we.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, how you file your taxes would. Would be one thing, but you guys, how. Where your income goes, your paychecks, where they go when you're paid. The IRS doesn't care about that. That. So if you guys are in one account, you're. You're a household account. Now how you file your taxes, whether individual or. Or married, filing jointly, that's, you know, that's different. So what I would suggest you guys do, Mark, just from a. From a relational standpoint, what we have found is that couples who combine everything. What that shows is, number one, that we are a team in this household, that we are running together as a married couple couple, you get further with your financial goals faster and you actually end up having a better marriage because of it. Because you lean on each other, you trust each other, Communications opened and you see yourselves as one. So there's a financial benefit to it, but there's also a relational, emotional benefit to say, yeah, we're, we're married. Like when we said yes and I do and put rings on and created this covenant between us. We're sharing our lives. Like this is everything. You know, we are all in this together. So that may take some conversations to kind of get her around to that idea, but that would be the ultimate goal for me, for you guys, Mark, Is to say, yes, we are one. And so how. So if that was the case, you bring home 43amonth. What does she bring home?

[Caller]

She has a small business. She says she makes and produce her own skincare products. I don't know how much she makes a month. I didn't know like a year is like 5. Between 5 and 10,000. Like I said, I take care of everything. So I just kind of like stay out here, stay out of business.

[Ken Coleman]

How much, how much does she make?

[Rachel Cruz]

10,000. A year? Year. 10 to 25,000.

[Caller]

No, no, no. Between five and 10,000 a year?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

For her?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

That's not a lot of money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why? Yeah, why is she not working?

[Caller]

Because we have, we have, we have another one on the way.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so she's more of a stay at home, right? Okay. Okay. Well then that means, I mean, I mean, honestly, Mark, at that point it's like 800 bucks a month. So it's not even that much that she's going to have to quote, unquote, merge with you. It's not, you know what I mean? Like, it's you guys together. It's not like she's got a job making 80,000 and she's like, this is mine, this is yours. And there's kind of a harder emotional.

[Caller]

I just kind of leave it, you know, I just take care. I just leave it.

[Rachel Cruz]

So you. Okay. Okay. So that's kind of like her. Okay. Yep. Well, that 800 that she makes a month. Eight. Eight to a thousand could be very beneficial in this, in these baby steps. Right. So you guys could look at that to say people go and try to find an extra job to get a thousand dollars a month. And as a stay at home mom, that's what she's doing, which is awesome.

[Ken Coleman]

$9,600 right there.

[Rachel Cruz]

So what I would do is I would. The IRS debt needs to be cleaned up first. So the, so the 9,600 from the IRS. I would clean that out. We usually say, Mark, smallest to largest debt, but the IRS gets a pass to the front because we want them out of your lives. So the 9,600, I would. Yep. Pay that off. And again, if you guys can work together, you could have this paid off in seven to eight months, just even with. With what she's bringing in. But that gets knocked out, and then I would be. And then you have what, probably about 400 left? Is that what you said? Because it was 9,600 and you have 10,000.

[Caller]

Right, right. Just personal.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so get that 400 cleaned up, and then. Yes. And then you guys together attack that 23,000 of her student loans. So I want your household debt free, and then we will move on to a household emergency fund of 36 months of expenses. So, okay, so for you, Mark, how much. So you. You bring home 4, 300. How much is rent or mortgage? How much are you guys paying in that a month?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm renting right now, and it's 1320.

[Rachel Cruz]

1320. Okay. All right. That's good. Yep. So, yeah, this is. And honestly, too, Mark, I mean, it. This. This idea of getting out of debt and getting this emergency fund in place, if you've been listening to us any amount of time, I mean, it is. It is scorched earth. It is extra jobs. It is like getting this done asap. Really, really, really, really, really fast on that point.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I drive trucks.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, is. Is that skill? Is there. Is there a way for you to pick up a decent amount of hours where it's actually. Actually gonna make a difference just with the truck driving skill?

[Caller]

I mean, not at this job. I do something on the side, but it's not something I report. I didn't really include it in my, you know, my overall.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, what do you do on the side?

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do on the side and how much?

[Caller]

It's like waste management. Some like, you know, like, junk removal type stuff. I have a pickup truck.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

If I'm hustling like I should, then I could. I mean, I can make like 2000 easy a month.

[Ken Coleman]

2000.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's great. Mark.

[Ken Coleman]

Mark, buddy, that the play? Because you're. Listen, your wife's busy, man. She got two and one on the way. And. And, you know, there's just not a whole lot of margin there. And that's not something y' all decided. Love that. 2,000 bucks a month could turn into 4,000 bucks a month if you. You're hustling. Then you figure out a way to scale yourself. I like that. Play a lot, you know.

[Caller]

Yeah, for sure.

[Ken Coleman]

Like I'm Mark, I'm telling you, that's a great opportunity. See, not look.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you're a hard worker. I appreciate that about, I mean, you're, you're not scared of hard work.

[Ken Coleman]

Love it. Mark. Get after it, man. And then scale yourself.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know him, like own his own thing one day.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what I'm getting at. Mark may be surprised where this could go, you know?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, you're making 4300 driving trucks. And like Ken saying, if you can make 4,000 doing, doing this, I mean.

[Ken Coleman]

I'd find some high school guys, some college guys in the summer that want some good money hourly. And you just loading them up, no pun intended.

[Rachel Cruz]

That could be fun. That's a fun dream. Sit down with your wife tonight, Mark. We're going to give you every dollar. Oh, and you guys create a household budget, both of your incomes go in and just start to dream. Seriously dream. How fast could we get out of debt? What would it look like for Mark to own his own business? I like it.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Susan in Missouri. Susan, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, thank you so much for having me on the show today. My boyfriend and I are going to be starting FPU soon and we're both really excited when we start this. My boyfriend's going to be able to knock out the very little debt he has just right out of his checking account and probably be in about 75% into a six month month emergency fund.

[Rachel Cruz]

Wow. Great.

[Caller]

Yeah, he's, he's doing wonderful. Me, unfortunately not that great. I got divorced about eight years ago and I just in a bad place. I relied heavily on debt and credit cards and I've got about 90,000 in debt. 57 of that student loans. I've got a vehicle loan for 17 and the rest is like a personal loan. And I got about 5,000 on a credit card I'm still working on.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

We got some short term and long term goals together. Our short term goal is we want me to be able to stay at home with a baby someday. And given my age, we are actually seeing a fertility doctor now for some help with conceiving. And my boyfriend wants to help me pay off my debt and make sure we're in the place for me to stay at home when that. When our prayers are answered. And I know we aren't married yet, but it's definitely happening soon. Sooner than later. He asked me my ring Size like it's going to happen. So I didn' know with our given situation. Would this be okay?

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Can.

Can you explain? I tried to explain it to him last night and I. And I know I can't articulate it good enough.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so wait a second. This is his idea.

[Caller]

He. Yes. He wants to help me and he's been. I mean, he's been such a blessing to my daughter and I like.

[Ken Coleman]

What did you say to him? I want to know what Susan tried to explain. Explain. So you knew we were going to say no, didn't you?

[Caller]

Oh, oh, I definitely knew you guys were saying. Very glad I'm actually talking to you all, not Dave.

[Ken Coleman]

Tell us why we are so nice. I'm kidding.

[Caller]

Intimidating. No, No, I love his advice. I love it all.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. So Rachel. She's gone. Okay, so what, what was your explanation? Give us the summary of how you explained why.

[Caller]

The answer is the data shows that, you know, when you're married, you're, you're. The data just shows that. See, I can't articulate it very well and just biblically. Biblically, okay. But then also on my side, I did all the right things. That first marriage and it still didn't work. And I'm like, I'm happy, I'm safe, I'm secure. Like, I don't want to push it too much. I mean, I'm, I mentioned it every once in a while, like, hey, we've been together three and a half years. Years.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And y' all are seeing a fertility specialist. Susan, I'm like, you guys are about to start a family.

[Ken Coleman]

So like, we got the cart before the horse.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're not crazy. You're not like out of the blue feel like marriage is.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Caller]

I would have married him last year with a bread tie, but he's just.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I, you know. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So I like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

So the order. So. So there's a couple of big events happening in your lives and you called us. So we'll give you our thoughts. Ken, I'll give you mine.

[Ken Coleman]

I said no.

[Rachel Cruz]

And if you disagree with what I'm about to say, my order of events.

[Ken Coleman]

I like this.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't mind you seeing a fertility specialist and be talking through, but I would not be going forward with anything big decision wise until you're married. And so because we've talked to already one person on the show that has a six month old with a fiance who she's about to break up with. I think because Ken was like, he's a loser. He's terrible. He's not great. And I know your fiance or your boyfriend is different, but I'm just saying, saying life happens, Things happen. We get calls on the show all the time, and it's just, it's. It's relationships that end up.

[Ken Coleman]

Why are you okay? I'm sorry. Not quick. I. I thought I was going to agree with you. I'm not sure I'm on board with her going through the fertility doctor conversation without a ring on.

[Caller]

I'm okay with dying.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. So he needs to step up.

[Caller]

Tell him I know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I'm okay with. I'm okay with the, Like, I'm not. I'm not. I'm okay with. With them interviewing doctors and, like, asking the question because they're about to be engaged. I wouldn't go. I wouldn't go forward. If she wants to freeze her eggs, she can, but I wouldn't actually do anything fertility wise until they're married.

[Ken Coleman]

My concern is, is if you go do that, it's a slippery slope.

[Rachel Cruz]

It could be. So y' all need to get married, Susan. So married, baby. And then, well, married. Combined finances, baby and the baby finance thing can happen. Right. Right away. Okay. So what I would do if I were you guys is to say, and hopefully out loud, y' all are saying, yes, we're gonna get married. Right? Like that's a conversation that's being said. And do you know, I know he asked for a ring, but do you guys say, like, oh, yeah, by the end of the year, we'll be married. Like, do. Do y' all have a timeline?

[Caller]

No, not really. I mean, we.

[Rachel Cruz]

So we need a time the other.

[Caller]

Night, and we don't need anything big.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like, it's great.

[Caller]

So.

[Rachel Cruz]

So we need a timeline.

[Ken Coleman]

I could marry you guys on the show. This is why I should get ordained.

[Rachel Cruz]

Ken really wants to marry someone.

[Ken Coleman]

I kind of do.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so y' all need to make it. This is Nashville now. So number one, I would do timeline of wedding. End of the year. I don't know. It's August. Let's. By December we're getting married. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And then in December, financially, where's everyone at in December? He has paid off his debt. In December, he's going to have. I'm making this up. Susan. $30,000 of debt or. I'm sorry, of cash. $40,000 in his emergency fund. I don't know. He's going to have this. Susan's going to have worked. And Susan is going to pay off her credit card debt by. By December five Susan. Susan's going to be kind of working through the next debt. Like, you know, where are you going to be Susan in December? And then when you guys get married now, how much of the money that he has saved? Because he's going to go right back to baby step two once you guys say I do. And you guys are going to work to pay off the rest of your debt. But he will use his savings to do that after you're married.

[Ken Coleman]

How much does he have?

[Caller]

Okay, he's probably got 20, 25,000 saved up now.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so. So by December, what's your car worth? I know you owe 17.

[Caller]

Well, I don't know. It's probably worth about as much as I owe now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, and how, what do you guys make a year combined?

[Caller]

He actually just had to take a pay cut with a promotion, which is crappy, but it's okay. He makes about 95 now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

95.

[Caller]

He makes about 95.

[Rachel Cruz]

What do you make?

[Caller]

And then I'm gonna be making probably around 45. If I get to keep the overtime I've been putting in, It's.

[Ken Coleman]

If not 40, what do you do?

[Caller]

I'm, I'm actually working at just like a manufacturing plant, making brackets right now. It pays better than, than anything. I, I went to school, got a bachelor's degree, but I have no idea what to do with it.

[Ken Coleman]

What did you get a bachelor's degree? Yeah. Well, I got you. I'm gonna give you.

[Caller]

I wanted to be a teacher. And then last minute I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. And so I asked my advisor, what can I do with the credits. I have to still go graduate. And so I have interdisciplinary studies, the.

[Ken Coleman]

Biggest Crocker crap in the history of education.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, I got it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

I should have just never went to college.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, can I give you a pre wedding gift? I'm gonna give you my book. Find the work you're wired to do. It has the get clear assessment and it only takes about 18 to 20 minutes. Please take it. I promise you, I promise you it'll give you some clarity going forward. Forward. And if we got to get you back on the show another time to talk about your results, that's fine. But you, you need to be figuring out what can I do. And I think there's a lot more that you could do than you realize. I love, by the way, I want to applaud you. I love that you're in a manufacturing plant and you're putting brackets together.

[Caller]

I, I actually, I've never done this before, but I'm killing it. I actually like it.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what?

[Rachel Cruz]

And that.

[Ken Coleman]

That made my day, actually. There's no shame in. In that.

[Rachel Cruz]

No. And she wants to stay home eventually with the baby. So I hope you guys get married in December. I hope you get pregnant, and I hope by a year from now, make.

[Ken Coleman]

Some more brackets and then make some babies.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

There we go.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I want y' all debt free, and you can do it all. And I. That's what I hope for you, Susan. But. But again, the order is really important. And where people screw up, not just from, like, a biblical sense. Right. I mean, that's. That's totally fair. But from the data, like, what you're saying, when people mess up this old, it. It gets. It gets really difficult from a financial standpoint to start to win, because things happen in life, and we want to just safeguard and be wise. Susan. This is just being wise.

[Caller]

I think some of his. I think some of his hesitation is like, he just recently kind of got his life together. He's always had amazing work ethic, made six figures, if not close to. But he struggled with addiction. And so, I mean, up until about two and a half years ago, he was spending anywhere from 800 to 1,000 a week on his addiction. And so he's been two and a half years clean. He's like, I just want to get better.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Are y' all doing premarital counseling?

[Caller]

We're. I mean, we're going to. We went to some counseling when he was struggling, and I told him, hey, get clean or I'm gone.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And he did.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it's great. Yeah. So you guys can take your time, but don't jump the. Don't jump the baby before the. The wedding either. Okay.

[Caller]

Huh?

[Rachel Cruz]

So be wise. Be wise.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Appreciate you. Wow. Gets back to my rant earlier. Just be careful, folks. Be careful who we're marrying.

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[Ken Coleman]

This is the Ramsey show where we help you win with your money, your work and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. The lovely, the talented Rachel Cruz joins me. 888825 5225. We're here for you. Let's get going. We've got Gary. I hope I'm saying that right in California. Gary, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, you did say that right.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you know, I'm hooked on phonics. A lot of people don't all know this, but a lot of hard work there. Rachel, how can we help today?

[Caller]

So I think we're going to continue the same with marriage, but it's not my. It's not yours, My marriage. No. So. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm gonna try to make it very clear because it's kind of a messy situation. But my mom remarried when I was 10 and they broke up with within the same year. And they've kept this on and off relationship of like, I help you, you help me, but totally no benefits. And that just bled in over the last 30 years.

[Ken Coleman]

Can you tell us real quick what does that mean on they help each other, no benefit.

[Rachel Cruz]

Fight financially.

[Caller]

Financially, like my mom's co signed for cars, filled out forms for him. He'll give her rights, place. So everything but.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, everything.

[Caller]

Cats and dogs.

[Ken Coleman]

I see. I got you. Okay. Friends, no benefits. That's what you're saying?

[Caller]

Yeah. Ah, well, then he went and adopted a son when I was 20 years old. So that was about 20 years ago. And she became the babysitter and just.

[Ken Coleman]

This is just a absolutely zero boundaries. Weird situation. Situation. We got it.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yes. So I decided my mom did too, but for her own reasons. I decided about a year and a half ago to no longer be active in their lives because there's no boundaries. And you know, my husband and I worked to the baby steps years ago when we've worked hard to get to where we're at. We're not wealthy, but we're very comfortable.

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Caller]

And I don't know, I mean, they've never asked me for money. But they, you know, just gave you a snapshot of their financial picture. They're on. My stepdad's on disability and they live in housing and they don't want to help themselves.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not together.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Rachel Cruz]

Are they living together?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's his son, but.

[Ken Coleman]

So they live together.

[Caller]

Not my mom. Not my mom.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Stepdad and the son. Okay, I'm sorry.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. All right. Sorry. I was in the same confusion.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

All right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Sorry.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, you're good. You're good.

[Caller]

So she recently just stopped deciding to help him with. With stuff, and.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So she's put up a boundary and. So what's. What's the question for you?

[Caller]

So his. His stepson, who considers me his big sister, which I feel really bad about because I don't feel the same, reaches out every so often, wants that relationship, begs us to call and speak with him. And for me, I'm just. I. Their financial storm, their emotional storm keeps bleeding over into our lives, and I just. I can't carry it anymore. And I don't know, as a Christian, like, that's really hard for me to accept that it's okay, but it feels mean.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. I love your heart. Let me ask this. How is it. How is the. Your stepdad and the Steps and his son, how is their financial situation bleeding over into your life, you and your husband? How is that specifically happening?

[Caller]

So one big. And what made me really make the decision just to at least take a break? At the very least, I helped them find housing, a place that accepts housing, and I got it through a friend's mom. They broke the rules and they got evicted. And this in. In the middle of tax season. I'm a preparer. He's demanding that I go find him and you.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Got it.

[Caller]

I said that's not my problem. You broke the rules.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I don't even have time even if I wanted.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right. I'm in the busiest season of my entire career. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Now. Okay, I just wanted to know. Yeah, I, I. And this is the stepdad that did this.

[Rachel Cruz]

And not technically even your stepdad. Right. I mean, like, there's not even, like a legal. I mean, they haven't even been together for 20, 30 years, and when they.

[Ken Coleman]

Were, it wasn't even a year. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

It sounds like your mom's unhealthy relationship with him has now become your unhealthy relationship with this man. You know what I mean? It's not even like.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

But now the stepdad or whatever this dude, whatever we're going to call him, he. He has honored the boundary. But it sounds like his son is the one that's just calling you. Just relationally.

[Rachel Cruz]

How old is he? The son?

[Caller]

He's now 19.

[Ken Coleman]

Does he ask for money?

[Caller]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Is he manipulative? The middle yeah, but is he manipulative in any way?

[Caller]

I think emotionally, because he want, he's like, can you call and talk to him? You really want to talk to you. He's sad and I know he's playing.

[Rachel Cruz]

The party over it, the triangle.

[Ken Coleman]

I knew there was a reason and.

[Rachel Cruz]

He probably isn't meaning to. He doesn't know he's a 19 year old kid with his dad. Right. I'm like, he doesn't know any better.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I, I, Rachel's probably better at this, so I'll get out of her way. Well, I just, I. Here's the thing. I think it's okay for you to tell the young man why you want to put a boundary up. And I think you just, I don't think you smooth talk it. I think you just go, hey, you're stuck in the middle and I'm sorry, this is not your fault, but, and I don't want to say anything that makes your, your dad look bad for my reasons. It has nothing to do with, with you. I need a boundary of separation in talking to you about the family stuff. Because if he were to just call you and probably say, hey, how's it, how's everybody doing? And it was just relational, I have a hunch that you might be okay with that. Correct.

[Caller]

Yeah, but you might.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I don't think she really care. I mean, I don't think she cares.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean that doesn't make you a bad person. I just think it's this random guy that your mom's attached. Well, that's why adopts this guy. And now Jerry's like, what is happening? This is not my life.

[Ken Coleman]

I can't have a relationship with you. Just say, I can't have a relationship with you. And I'm really sorry for, for where I'm at in my life. You don't have to explain it by the way. He's not going to like it. That's why I was mining to see. Is it, is it that you just don't like when he talks about the dad stuff?

[Rachel Cruz]

Because that's right. That's right. That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

But if it's just, I don't need this relationship. You telling there's a great book. I don't know if we have it. Do we have Boundaries by Henry Cloud on site? We do not. You need to get the book Boundaries by our good friend Dr. Henry Cloud. I'll tell you what, while you're at it by Necessary Endings, read both of those books together and he will literally in that book coach you through it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Jerry, do you and your husband have kids?

[Caller]

Yeah, we have a 10 year old and a 4 year old.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, man, what do you think? No, I don't think it's too harsh. I mean, I think there has to be a con. I think, I think it would be cruel to just ghost him. Right? I mean, I agree. I think you do have to tell him and just tell him the situation, Jerry. Of like, hey, listen, I, and just, you know, and it's going to be awkward, it's going to be hard. Ride it out if you have to. Just kind of stick to a script because you feel bad for the kid. Right? And you made Jerry. And I probably wouldn't make this promise, but in your heart, you know, you may come around in two to three years and who knows what his story unfolds and you, you guys may, may end up having a relationship and you guys may be able to help them and, and show him what a, what a healthy life looks like, you know, between two married people and kids. I mean, I, I don't know. But that's not your responsibility. So hear me say that you don't have responsibility in this. This is strings from your mom. Yes. Your, from your, your mom's unhealthy relationships that have woven into your life. And to cut those is totally fair. But I think too having the heart and the spirit to say, you know, God, if there is a place in the future and if I'm supposed to be in his life, continue to open doors, soften my heart and you may have a change of heart later in life, but right now you got two kids, you're both working full time and yeah, I, I, I think that that's fair. It's gonna be an awkward, hard conversation.

[Ken Coleman]

We're with you, Gary. You're a good person. Do what's right for you. Does having more money and less stress sound nice but feel impossible? Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free From Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out. From credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from broke [e-mail] store. That's ramseysolutions.com store. Okay, folks, big news. Just boy, I guess it was Tuesday. Earlier this week, we launched the Ramsey show live. That Means we're going out on the road, taking the show to Chicago and Orlando. And I've got right here first, fresh off the presses. This is real paper.

[Rachel Cruz]

Ken's favorite thing to do.

[Ken Coleman]

My favorite sound of all time. Just team hates it.

[Rachel Cruz]

The listeners hate it. But Ken hates it.

[Ken Coleman]

The listeners don't.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, they do. They comment, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

Do they really?

[Rachel Cruz]

I think. I think someone said they comment about the noise.

[Ken Coleman]

Is this true?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm not even gonna do it.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm sorry. Rush Limbaugh made it famous. I don't care. I like it. But Orlando and Chicago both sold out.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, they're done.

[Ken Coleman]

We're going two cities and they are sold out. So if you wanted to see us in Chicago on the 30th of September, sold out. Orlando, sold out. So here's what we want to know. And when we posted George and. And you and. And I are in Chicago together. George, John, Jade in Orlando. And when we posted our social media thing, it was fun. People were jumping in the comments telling us what city they wanted to come to. So here it is. Where do you want us to come to next? What do you want? You got to tell us. Give us some feedback.

[Rachel Cruz]

Let us know in the comments.

[Ken Coleman]

You want us to come to the Big Apple?

[Rachel Cruz]

We'll go.

[Ken Coleman]

We like it. Start spreading the news. A little San Diego today. A little no bugs in San Diego. I like San Diego. San Diego, Dallas.

[Rachel Cruz]

We'll go Phoenix.

[Ken Coleman]

Love Phoenix.

[Rachel Cruz]

We can go Phoenix.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, get a good football team. Maybe I go to Dallas. All right. Sorry, that was. That was unnecessary.

[Rachel Cruz]

Vegas, we can see the Backstreet Boys.

[Ken Coleman]

Back Street's back. All right.

[Rachel Cruz]

They launched more dates in February.

[Ken Coleman]

Of all the shows to see in Vegas, that's not one I would choose.

[Rachel Cruz]

It will change your life.

[Ken Coleman]

I. I remember that era. It was good era. It was a good era, but I don't know that I'd want to see that one. But I don't know.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'll play some videos at the break.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Yeah. Rachel just return.

[Rachel Cruz]

Bring you in.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, girls trip. So go to ramseysolutions.com events and click on the link or click on the link. The show notes. And we want you to tell us. This is your chance to vote. And America, do you want us to come to your city? And who wouldn't want me and Rachel and George to come do what we do? It's just going to be so much fun. I can't wait. By the way, fun story. We posted that we were coming to Chicago and I put on there Bring the deep dish in the video. And can I tell you, Malnati's is bringing deep dish pizza to the Chicago show.

[Rachel Cruz]

They reached out.

[Ken Coleman]

So this could turn into a thing where we go to a city and I. I basically beg for free food because I'm not above it. I like free food. So Ken likes free stuff. I do like the free stuff. I can be bought. It's just. If anybody's wondering, I can. So there you go. It's going to be a lot of fun. What cities. Is there a city you would like to go to? If Rachel, what would be your top three?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'll go back to Vegas.

[Ken Coleman]

Vegas is one. Give me two more. Give me. Give me Vegas.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'll go New York. York. New York City.

[Ken Coleman]

I like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

And let's go Kansas City. Make it a little Taylor spotting.

[Ken Coleman]

Really?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know. With Travis. I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Nobody wants to go to Kansas City.

[Rachel Cruz]

Kansas City's a great city.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a great city. I just wanted to create some fake controversy. I love Kansas City. Barbecue's amazing. Love Kansas City. Love to go there. Everybody, don't get offended. I was just kidding.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, Packers. Oh, they want us to go Green Bay.

[Ken Coleman]

Now that one. I might have to actually say no to Green Bay. There's, like, one thing to do in Green Bay. I know. I'm giving him a hard time.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm giving him a hard time.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. Offensive to people sitting right there.

[Ken Coleman]

I kid. I kid, but it's not a top five. Right. I'm gonna go.

[Rachel Cruz]

It'd be my fourth.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna go New York. I'm gonna go Miami.

[Rachel Cruz]

Ah, great one.

[Ken Coleman]

And let's go northeast. I love. Love Boston. That's my three. Just to mix it up.

[Rachel Cruz]

We're already in New York. We're kind of already northeast.

[Ken Coleman]

Dude, now you're getting in hot water. You don't tell Bostonians that. New York and Boston are two. They're just very different cities.

[Rachel Cruz]

One of the different cities. But you. The region is the same.

[Ken Coleman]

What's easier to get there? We do New York one night.

[Rachel Cruz]

Going up to Boston.

[Ken Coleman]

There you have some chowder.

[Rachel Cruz]

What, you're telling us to go to callers? Come on. You're talking too long.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm really not.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's the end of the week.

[Ken Coleman]

It's fine. America loves it. Andrew is up in Jacksonville. Andrew, how can we help?

[Caller]

My father is in bad health, and he has a vehicle loan.

He.

He has not driven in a few months, and he is now confirmed that he's probably never going to drive again.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm sorry, Andrew.

[Caller]

Thank you.

He owes 16,8 on it.

I've taken it to a few lots. Carmax offered like 9.

9.

My mother, who is in good health, is a co borrower on it, but she has her own vehicle that's working fine. And so in situations like this. What do you do with this vehicle?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I wonder what have you Kelly Blue booked it? Because your Carmax and all those other places and mostly dealers, they'll try to buy it at wholesale.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

What have you Kelly Blue booked it?

[Caller]

I have not.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. I would do that next. You're probably still going to be underwater for it. He probably won't. Will. Does he have any other assets? What kind of money do your parents have?

[Caller]

They're, they're well off, I would say. I mean, I don't really know their financial situation, but.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So I was retired. Okay.

[Caller]

He has a really good life insurance policy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

The medical team told us, you know, he has three to six months.

Oh my gosh.

[Rachel Cruz]

And Drew, I'm sorry, I guess in.

[Ken Coleman]

This case I would just choose the least amount of effort. Like at this point you just don't want him, your mom, burning any calories of effort on something like that. You know, with three to six months to go, for sure they've got cash.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I would just, I mean if they have five, six thousand dollars, I would just pay the difference and get rid of the car and just be done.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Caller]

Gotcha.

[Rachel Cruz]

Be done with it. Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because after he passed losses, I mean that debt will be still owed. Right. Like it's going to have to true up with this estate and everything. So you'll have to deal with it one way or the other. So if they do have the cash. But I would go private sale. And again, Andrew, I would probably, to Ken's point, put that maybe on you or one of your siblings to help sell.

[Caller]

Yeah, sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

Private party. Yeah. And then. Yeah, just take some of their cash and just do the difference.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Thank you. Because again, I, I, this is all like this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Does he, but he has, he has life insurance in place. How old is he?

[Caller]

76.

[Rachel Cruz]

76. Okay. And your mom, are they do you as their son and family, do you guys know, you said you don't really know their financial situation. Have you guys had any conversations? Just, I just know with working with family, families after someone passes and dealing with the estate and dealing with passwords and I mean, it's just there's a lot of information that happens and I just want to make sure you guys are as well informed just so that the grieving process goes as, you know, simple as. As possible without muddying with money and financial issues.

[Caller]

Right. Thank you for that. Well, our next. So our next step is we have. We have scheduled some time with an attorney next week.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller]

I do know that there is a trust, but we can't find dad's will, so we're kind of going through that process. But I know that his life insurance policy will pretty much take care of my mother and everything for the remainder of her life. But, you know, I mean, like this, like, again, this vehicle thing is kind of small. Small sure things, but it's a detail, and I just didn't know what to do with it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep, yep. So, yeah, that's what I would do. And if you guys can't find the will, if there has to be another put in place, I would. Because just going through probate and everything, it just makes that. That whole situation smoother. As much documentation as you guys can have. But I hate that this even has to be a conversation for you all. I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

I understand.

But you know what? It's. I hope. What? I hope this conversation that we're having right now helps somebody else's listening.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Amen. I appreciate that.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, Andrew, you. You're strong and young man. So sorry. I think. I think at this stage, it's getting all the ducks lined up like we've been talking about, and then you and family handle as much as that as you can so that, you know, quality of life is as good as it can be. And let's celebrate. And I hate that you're going through this. I really. I really do.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Thanks for run at peace because he's at peace.

[Ken Coleman]

That's good to know. Yeah, that's good to know. Wow. Thank you for calling and sharing that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, guys. Rachel Cruze here with a big announcement. The Ramsey show live is going on tour. This is your chance to no longer just listen on your daily commute, but be in the room where life change happens, happens. We're removing the wall between caller and audience so you can take part in money, confessions, hot takes and more. Plus, you'll hear live callers get answers to their pressing questions. I'll be in Chicago on September 30th alongside George Camel and Ken Coleman. Then George Jade Warshaw and Dr. John DeLoney will be in Orlando on October 2nd. Tickets start at $39 and are limited to just 300 seats in each city. So don't wait. Especially if you want one of the 50 VIP tickets that includes a meet and greet, the best seats in the house, and more. It'll be a night full of hope, community, and the kind of energy you can only get in person. Get your tickets [e-mail] the Ramseyshow LIVE or just click the link in the show notes.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to the debt free stage in the lobby. And we've got Michael and Stacy joining us. Hi, guys. How are you?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Hey, Ken. Hey, Rachel. How are you doing?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, where are you guys from?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Maryland. We're from Calvert County, Maryland, right outside Washington, D.C. okay, very nice.

[Ken Coleman]

Right there inside the bottom beltway. Is that okay? Very nice. Okay, well, tell us you're here to do debt free Scream. So give us the stats. How much did you pay off?

[Rachel Cruz]

We paid off $651,000. Oh, my gosh. In about seven years.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. And what was the range of income?

[Rachel Cruz]

We started around 200,000. And then what was it?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

We went up to 346.

[Rachel Cruz]

246. And then when we paid off the house back down, back down to 223. Oh, my gosh. So the house was part of it.

[Ken Coleman]

We had a feel.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

You gave away the much money.

[Rachel Cruz]

If you said you had $600,000 of credit card debt, I would.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

I've heard that on the show, you know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, but the house, you guys, is that all the house or was there any consumer debt in that number?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

So we had a paid for rental or not? I'm sorry, we didn't have a paid for rental. We had a rental for 220,000. We had student loans for 20,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Credit card 11,000. Second mortgage for 60,000. The home was 340,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Yeah, but you got. But half of it was. Yeah, everything else.

[Ken Coleman]

Look at you.

[Rachel Cruz]

How incredible. And seven.

[Ken Coleman]

Dave normally says I'm looking at weird people, but I don't think you're weird. I actually think you guys look very, very well adjusted. Oh, he's weird. That's funny. Stacy's like, I'm the nerd. Michael's a little weird.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

I was the nerd.

[Caller]

Yeah, for sure.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you look fantastic. So what do you guys do for a living? Because this income, this, this is interesting. 200 to 346. Back down to 223. What do you guys do?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Yeah, so I'm a retired cop of 27 years. Okay. I got an encore job, so I had the pension coming in, plus my encore job and Stacy was.

[Rachel Cruz]

I was a VP of communications and marketing for an association.

[Caller]

And.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

So what sort of happened was, you know, we had three incomes, so we had a pension coming in. We had my. My encore job.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm a.

[Caller]

Right.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Currently, I still have it. I'm a fraud investigator with the federal government.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, that's fun.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Yeah. And then, you know, her job. So we had three jobs, three incomes coming in. But once we paid off the house, she got to quit her toxic job.

[Ken Coleman]

Yay, Stacy. Man, how long ago was that?

[Rachel Cruz]

I left. My Last day was May 6th.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so this is fresh.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

That's why you look like you're levitating.

[Rachel Cruz]

Very. I'm still not. It feels odd, like I still haven't.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you're debt free and toxic. Company free. That's a. That's a double win.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's a double win. Yeah. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with myself. So I just bought. I just bought your book because I'm like, well, now I'm gonna see what else I'm wired for.

[Ken Coleman]

I'll read.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So.

[Ken Coleman]

Hell yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

What happened seven years ago that caused you guys to think we would have paid all of this off? Plus the house, which is crazy.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

I. I literally was laying in bed one night, and, like, we make all this money. Where is it all going? You know? And we're in debt. What's going to happen to us in retirement? And I literally was having, like, heart palpitations, and I. I got on. I got on the Internet, like, how to get out of debt. And guess whose face shows up as your dad?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, Papa Dave.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Papa Dave showed up from the Google.

[Ken Coleman]

The algorithms. He's winning the algorithm.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

So he was yelling at somebody about, you know, having a. A car. You know, I like the old Dave when he's yelling at people, but anyways, he's nice now, but you should be.

[Ken Coleman]

Sitting next to him when he does it. A lot of fun.

[Rachel Cruz]

You started watching, like, YouTube clips. Is that what.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Or just got hooked on YouTube.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

And then. So I had a long commute to work.

[Ken Coleman]

Work.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

I worked in Baltimore from, you know, Calver county to Baltimore is like an hour and 15 minutes. And I did that for, you know, quite a long time, by the way.

[Ken Coleman]

That's literally the highway to hell. Can we agree that that area is just. I mean, it's.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

It's not. You know, it's not my favorite area. Right.

[Ken Coleman]

I know you're being.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

I was gonna cop it. Well, that's a whole other story. But that to me, yeah, you have.

[Ken Coleman]

A different perspective on that statement.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Listen, I could tell you stories, but it's gonna. I'm gonna go past the nine minutes, so keep going. Yeah, but I mean, during that, during that drive, I was introduced to the podcast. I listened to the podcast and Dave was like, on my podcast every day for to work and from work.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh.

[Ken Coleman]

And that got you fired up.

[Rachel Cruz]

And that was seven years ago. So, yeah, we're talking like, like 2018. Ish. Do you on there.

[Ken Coleman]

So do you come home and tell Stacy about this guy who's yelling at people? And Stacy, what was your reaction to this?

[Rachel Cruz]

He kind of got into it before I did. He kind of had to convince me, but because I was like, oh, who is this and what is this guy?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

What?

[Rachel Cruz]

But the more I started listening to it, I was like, oh, God, this makes sense, right? Like, this really makes sense. And so I kind of got on board. So he was the instigator. I was a little bit hesitant at first, but then I was like, well, yeah, this makes total sense. And once you started to see the progress. Right. And the good things happening, it's like, oh, man, this. We could do this, you know? Yeah, it's working. Yeah, it's working. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So what do you tell people from your journey is the key to getting out of debt? You know?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

You know, people come up and say, you know, the budget, yes, the budget is important. And yes, you know, lifestyle changes and sacrifice is important. But one key thing I think is like, people say, oh, obsession. You're obsessed with this. It's a. Obsession is not a bad thing. As long as you don't put it before God and your family. You can get obsessed and focused on something to get it done. Like baby steps one, two, and three was like, you know, my hair was on fire.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, that's what happened. Hold on.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

That might be a bad analogy. Have a lot of comment in there. But steps one, two, and three, like super focused, super conscious, concentrated on. But steps four, five, and six, it's more like a. Like a long distance run.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

You know, and finally it's over. You know, this marathon's over.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so how many years was paying off the house because you guys paid off? I mean, close to what, 200, 300 of consumer. And then you went into the house. So how long. How long was that? What was the journey?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Honestly, we got into? We got rid of consumer debt fairly quickly. Like 18 months or something.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

And then the rest of it Was all house.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So about the. The last five years or so was just thrown. And how did you guys do it? Because people ask this a lot. Yeah, because people do it different ways. Did you guys do a specific, you know, extra mortgage payments, like a goal per year or per month? Like, what did that look like?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

So essentially, any extra money, like Dave says you have extra money coming in. Throw it at the house. Throw it at the house. So any overtime money? And also, remember, I got another job with the pension coming in. We didn't touch the. The pension. We just whatever check came in at the beginning of the month. You just went straight to the house.

[Ken Coleman]

Straight to the house.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Extra principal extra. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

That's nice.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

We took our foot off the gas. I mean, baby steps four, five and six. We took our foot off the gas, went to like vacation and stuff like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Which you should do, which is great. Yes. And daughter over here, I see. Yes. She part of it. How old is she? She is 14. 14? Yes. Come on. We've come. You're beautiful.

[Ken Coleman]

I know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Beautiful. You're taller than me.

[Ken Coleman]

Who is this?

[Rachel Cruz]

This is Quinn. Quinn. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

How old is Quinn?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Quinn's 14 years old.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. She doesn't have a mic, so it's going to be hard, but I'll have your parents. What. What was the process?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

What was having.

[Rachel Cruz]

Having having a teenager in the house? How did all that work, was all that. How did the family dynamic work? She was really kind of on board. I mean, she's still a teen.

[Caller]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

She still loves shopping and everything, but we all kind of gave up a little bit and sacrificed a little, and she definitely did her fair share of sacrificing clothing.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Understood the budget.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Nails and you talking. Y' all talked about it. It was open. And you as a. As a family, this was the goal. And as a family, we were doing this and it was easier to talk about. Like giving her the perspective of this is why it's going to be worth it. 100%.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

We are baby step millionaires, multi millionaires now.

[Ken Coleman]

Congratulations on that. Well, you set a great legacy and a great example for Quinn and hopefully she'll find a debt free guy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, she already knows. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm with you, dad. I feel you, man. I got it. All right, well, that is so cool. Well, you guys ready? Is she like the cool teenager? I've got a 16 year old. Are you gonna really scream here or is this gonna be cool?

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Quinn asking if you're going to scream or you'd be too cool to scream.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, I'm going to scream. Yes, Quinn.

[Ken Coleman]

I love it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, we love a dedicated team.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's do it. So we've got Michael, Stacy, and Quinn in the Annapolis Beltway area of Maryland. Paid off $651,000 over seven years, making from 200 up to 346. Back down to 223. And they are free. Let's hear your debt free screen.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Three, two, one.

[Ken Coleman]

We're debt free. Yeah. All right. Well done. Very nice. She joined in.

[Caller]

So great.

[Ken Coleman]

How fun.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh. That's a lot of money.

[Ken Coleman]

A lot of money.

[Rachel Cruz]

And that's a long time. That's. That's some perseverance right there.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

And the obsession, it's what you got to do. You got to stay focused.

[Ken Coleman]

So great.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, and it's what they did. Incredible family. Absolutely incredible.

[Ken Coleman]

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 17, verse 17. A friend loves at all times and a brother is born for a time of adversity. And our quote of the day, I think, was hijacked by Rachel Cruz, a well known swifty. This is from her boyfriend. From Trav, One of the greatest tight ends of all time. Got to give him some love. He's not just her boyfriend. If you don't care about the guy next to you, he says, one, you're a terrible twomate teammate, actually two, you're never going to win. There we go, Travis. Way to go.

[Rachel Cruz]

Pretty life changing.

[Ken Coleman]

Thanks, Travis. Maybe Travis should stick to football and not quotes. I don't know. But it's good. There's some. There's a nugget of truth there. Melanie from Connecticut is joining us. Melanie, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

We're doing well. What's going on with you today?

[Caller]

Good. So I have a concern. I have a situation I've been dealing with for a few years now, and I'm at a point where, I don't know, I don't think I'm okay with it continuing. And I think it will continue. And the basics of it is, you know, how can I get my husband to get our older son to pay for his own bill?

[Ken Coleman]

How old is your son?

[Caller]

He just turned 21. I've been asking my husband to, you know, get him to pay for his own bills, nothing else. His own bills. Since he was 18. He's fully. He's been fully employed since he was 16. You know, really manage his money very well. Gets into unnecessary debt. You know, has been having trouble keeping a job. Will not do. You know, my husband and I both have a full time and then do part time gigs and he just cannot handle that he's not a student. And so because the bills are not under his name, when he doesn't have a job or he's underemployed, it doesn't face them because they're under our name.

[Ken Coleman]

What bills? What bills does he have?

[Caller]

Car insurance and cell phone.

[Rachel Cruz]

Does he live with you all?

[Caller]

He does.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And he's been, he's been full time. So he starts at 16. I feel like it's relevant. So give me a little latitude here. Why is he full time work at 16 and not in high school?

[Caller]

No, no, no, no. He was, he had his part time job when he was 16. He graduated and that sounds responsible.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, you know what I mean? Like the trajectory sounds good.

[Ken Coleman]

What kind of work has he been doing?

[Caller]

He started with, you know, like coffee shops, then mechanic work. That part is okay. The issue I find is that because the bills are not under his name, the actual papers that come in under his name, he doesn't have the will or willingness or need to pay them. And my husband, you know, ask him to pay, I remind him, we fight about it, nothing happens.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so let me ask you this. If they're in his name, if he did not pay a cell phone bill, then they would turn the cell service off.

[Caller]

Yes, correct.

[Ken Coleman]

So why don't we just let that happen?

[Caller]

Because it's one of those family plans and so it affects me.

[Ken Coleman]

Right, but what can we not get him on his own? Like, he doesn't, he's not on the family plan, he's on his own plan. He's 20. First of all, he shouldn't be living at home anymore. And I know what's going on here. This is, this is a marriage issue because your, your husband is just not willing to make this kid.

[Rachel Cruz]

What's your husband's reasons? What does he say?

[Caller]

You know what, I, I have a lot of compassion for my husband. We took a trip to his home country a few years back and I know where he, he comes from. You know, he comes from a lot of need and poverty and you know, part of, I think it has made him demand. He is, he's a lovely man. Worker.

[Rachel Cruz]

He wants to take care of his family because he's able to now. And so there's. Yeah, so yeah, that makes sense. So I think realizing. Yeah. And I will say, Melanie, I'll give you like a little bit of just like breathing room. And he's 21. If he was 30 you know what I mean? Like from an age perspective, he's young, he's 21. I agree. He doesn't have his feet up under him from a, from a job standpoint. He didn't go to school, is that right? No degree. Which is fine. I was clarifying. So we need to find. So. So as parents and I don't have a 21 year old, so I will say that as parents, I would think stepping in and helping him find, and helping him find himself, learning what am I good at? A lot of Ken's material is so good at this. But being an assistant to help him long term figure out a career path that's going to help him. Instead of him jumping from coffee shop to coffee shop, let's actually sit down and create a game plan together so he has some stability and direction. And then once that happens, that's good for him from a dignity standpoint. And then we're going to fly and we're going to have to learn how to be an adult. Right. But I don't know, I.

[Ken Coleman]

Is he racking up debt with credit cards or anything like that?

[Caller]

Nothing crazy. The biggest thing that he has is his car payment which is pretty high. So a little bit of backstory. Both of our kids, we gave them a car when they were 16, a beat up car. Like I think we spend more than $1,000 on the cars.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

For them to be able to do the part time job in school, all that stuff. And so he wanted to buy the flashy card and I said no. I said absolutely not. My husband was going to go sign for it. I said no. And so then he still went on and did it when he was about 19. And my husband said so because he was so young, the car insurance was, was going to be up to the roof. My husband kind of like agree to put him under our car insurance so it will be a lower rate. And you know, that's fine for a little while until he gets some, you know, credit X. But he hasn't your name.

[Rachel Cruz]

Some time frames. Y' all need to put some. A plan in place. This is just floating around.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. But. But you cannot put a plan in place if you guys aren't in agreement on the plan. And the fundamentals of this plan are you're very nice. He seems like a very good man. But you guys are not operating from the same system on this situation with this kid, your kid. So you have one view. I think it needs to be this. I think he needs to be doing this. Your husband has A completely different view. And it's understanding, understandable. Rachel wrote a great best selling book. I'm looking at it right now. Know yourself, know your money. In fact, I'm going to give you Rachel's book because I actually want both of you to read this. I think it is actually one of a. It's a fundamental book for couples who aren't on the same page about money. Before you get on the same page, you got to be able to understand each other. He comes from a scarcity view.

[Rachel Cruz]

100%.

[Ken Coleman]

She wrote a book on it. I'm going to give you the book. I'll let her speak to it. But actually I'll segue to Rachel. But here's, here's what I'm getting at. This is a marriage problem. In other words, we're just not communicating well and aligned in this particular part of marriage, which is our 21 year old son. I think getting with a professional therapist where it's safe, everybody's psychologically safe. And we can get to the root of this so that you understand your husband and have, and you do you have compassion for him, but you need to understand. And then he needs to, to understand how you feel.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And then let a professional who's unbiased walk you through where the boundaries need to be here. And then, and only then, Rachel, do I think we, we establish a plan.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And I think, you know, sitting down and you guys figuring out what's the end goal. And my assumption is I could be wrong. Is that we want our son to be successful in life. Right. Be on his own. Like I think every parent, I think, yeah. You know, that what, that's the end goal. And so how do we get there? And to Ken's point, how we get there is navigating two totally different routes. And we don't want that. And so for you and your husband. Yeah. To sit down and if you need a third party bringing someone in. Yes, do that. But figuring out, okay, what is the best way to get him from where he is now. Not very responsible, not really holding down a job. He's 21. How do we help. Assist in helping him flourish as an adult.

[Ken Coleman]

And I think what Rachel said is so smart. I want to applaud you because I think it's a mix between total tough love and total grace. The husband is, is all grace and mercy. And you're like, get him out.

[Rachel Cruz]

He's working at 16.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. He needs to be paying his insurance at 19. And, and so I think there is a balance there, Rachel.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, absolutely. But, yeah, you and your husband get on that same page, and I think your. Your hearts are both in a good spot. But remember, we wanting to have help him, not harm him, is the goal. And if you go your husband's route all the way, I think that's more harm than good.

[Ken Coleman]

So hang on the line. Kelly's going to get you a copy of Rachel's number one bestseller, know yourself, know your money. Each of you read it. And I'd share it with your son, let him read it, figure this thing out. Then we're all on the same page as a family. Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsey show Live. Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsay show, except you get to be a part of it. Part of what, George? The Ramsey show live.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Sort of telling them about Ramsey show live in here. Nope, we're. We're doing it on the road. You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz. September 30th. Are you free? The Windy City. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George? I like the deep dish. Okay, maybe we'll have some deep dish. You mind if I finish the promo? Is that okay with you? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Appreciate that. Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there.

[Rachel Cruz]

George, are you in here talking about TRS life?

[Ken Coleman]

I am, Jade. I'm trying to talk about it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Nice.

[Caller]

So that means it's actually happening, right?

[Ken Coleman]

It's happening. If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition.

[Caller]

Listen, just tell me when and where.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't know. Okay. We're going to Orlando. You're going to join Dr. John Deloney and I. October 2nd.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, great. I'm going to go pack now.

[Ken Coleman]

Thanks. Please, please do that. Go pack.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, George, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is. But not that cold yet In Chicago.

[Ken Coleman]

What is happening? Can I. Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

[Rachel Cruz]

Jeez, I thought it was a good question.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, this is not an arena tour. This is a one night only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only 39 bucks. Plus there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available, so get your tickets now at ramseysolutions.com events. Hey, how come you get. You get to go to both cities? I. I just go where they tell me, man. Hey, have you been there the entire time?

[Rachel Cruz]

Maybe.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And also, are you reading a children's book? I'm expanding my mind, George. That's how we got those PhDs.

[Debt Free Scream Guests]

Yeah, that's probably where you got that jacket.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. See you on the road.