You Don’t Need a Shortcut—You Need a Strategy

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "You Don’t Need a Shortcut—You Need a Strategy"

Release Date: June 6, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey and George Camel

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey and co-host George Camel delve into various financial challenges faced by everyday listeners. True to the show's mission, they provide practical advice aimed at helping individuals overcome debt, make informed financial decisions, and build lasting wealth without resorting to shortcuts.

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Caller 1: Jeremy from Lexington, South Carolina – Managing Student Debt and Debt Consolidation

Timestamp: [01:04] – [08:03]

Issue:
Jeremy and his wife are grappling with significant student loan debt, credit card debt, and a Parent PLUS loan held by Jeremy’s father. They contemplate using a mortgage loan to purchase their father’s property, intending to consolidate and pay off their debts.

Discussion:
Jeremy explains their total debt stands at approximately $110,000, excluding the mortgage of $23,000 on his father’s property. He considers consolidating these debts by taking on a larger mortgage to simplify payments into a single monthly expense.

Advice from George Camel and Dave Ramsey:
George questions the necessity and effectiveness of debt consolidation through a mortgage, highlighting the minimal savings and increased complexity it introduces. He emphasizes the debt snowball method, advising Jeremy to aggressively pay down debts with their combined household income of around $100,000. George suggests that by allocating extra funds each month towards debt repayment, they could eliminate their debt within two years rather than seven.

Notable Quotes:

• Jeremy: "We have a total debt of around $110,000... wondering if we can use a mortgage loan to pay off our debts." [02:02]
• George Camel: "Just pay off your freaking debts... get out of this debt in two years." [05:15]
• Dave Ramsey: "Don't do this. Consolidation loan feels like it's become too complex because it feels like they're trying to find a shortcut." [07:07]

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Caller 2: Dale from Augusta, Maine – Navigating a Window Replacement Contract

Timestamp: [10:27] – [20:01]

Issue:
Dale, a 70-year-old rancher, faces a predicament after signing a contract for window replacements costing $16,000. He seeks advice on whether to proceed with the installation or incur a 30% cancellation fee.

Discussion:
Dale recounts feeling pressured into the contract by the window company's persuasive sales tactics. Upon reconsideration, he seeks to rescind the agreement but faces financial penalties.

Advice from George and Dave:
George advises Dale to leverage the fact that the window company hasn’t ordered materials yet to negotiate a reduction or cancellation without significant penalties. Dave underscores the importance of understanding contractual obligations and prioritizing essential expenses over unnecessary debt.

Notable Quotes:

• Dale: "The window company's got $5,000 of my money... I'm going to get $5,000 worth of windows." [16:47]
• George Camel: "There may still be a fee, a stupid tax. But you're not doing anything wrong... you're just doing what you need to do." [16:22]
• Dave Ramsey: "Stop sticking yourself in it further... just pay off your freaking debts." [17:25]

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Educational Segment: Understanding Tax Withholdings

Timestamp: [76:12] – [85:35]

Topic:
George Camel and Dave Ramsey tackle the often-overlooked subject of tax withholdings. They explain how accurate tax withholdings can prevent large refunds or unexpected tax bills, advocating for a break-even approach.

Key Points:

• Importance of Accurate Withholdings: Avoid having the government hold onto your money interest-free.
• Adjusting W-4 Forms: Update withholdings during major life changes like marriage, buying a home, or having a child.
• Practical Steps:
  • Use last year's tax bill divided by 12 to determine monthly withholdings.
  • Utilize online tools or mock tax returns to estimate accurate withholding amounts.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel: "The goal... is to break even." [77:25]
• Dave Ramsey: "It's really easy to do. Just adjust your W4 form with your employer." [77:55]
• George Camel: "They don't teach you this stuff in school? They should." [80:10]

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Caller 3: Alex from California – Investment Strategies for a Young Investor

Timestamp: [106:28] – [119:35]

Issue:
Alex, a 16-year-old enthusiast in personal finance, is currently investing $2,500 monthly in index funds. He encounters contrasting advice from Dave Ramsey and George Camel regarding the merits of actively managed mutual funds versus index funds.

Discussion:
Alex seeks clarity on why Ramsey advocates for actively managed mutual funds despite their higher fees compared to index funds.

Advice from George and Dave:
George explains that while index funds are cost-effective and track the market, actively managed funds aim to outperform the market through professional management. He emphasizes the importance of performance over fees, noting that a minority of mutual funds do indeed outperform index funds. Dave reinforces the idea that diversifying investments and focusing on savings rates are crucial for long-term financial success.

Notable Quotes:

• Alex: "I don't understand the benefit of investing in something with much higher fees." [107:15]
• George Camel: "Funds both have validity and have their place... the goal is to find mutual funds that slightly beat the market." [108:17]
• Dave Ramsey: "It's your savings rate that matters more than arguing whether you get $2.1 or $2.2 million." [109:34]

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Caller 4: Lindsay from Columbia, South Carolina – Relationship and Financial Independence

Timestamp: [86:42] – [95:01]

Issue:
Lindsay is in a long-term, long-distance relationship with a boyfriend who is unemployed, lacks ambition, and does not have a driver's license. She seeks advice on whether to continue the relationship, balancing her financial independence with her emotional investment.

Discussion:
Lindsay expresses frustration over her boyfriend’s lack of contribution both financially and domestically, despite his recent spiritual growth. She fears repeating the pattern of her parents' troubled marriage and desires a relationship built on mutual support and responsibility.

Advice from George and Dave:
George and Dave recommend that Lindsay prioritize her well-being and financial stability over the relationship. They encourage her to recognize that love alone cannot sustain a partnership if underlying financial and personal growth issues remain unresolved. They advocate for Lindsay to consider ending the relationship if it hinders her financial and personal goals.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: "Love can't pay the bills. Love isn't necessarily the only foundation I have." [91:14]
• George Camel: "You're causing yourself harm and him harm. You deserve to be valued and respected." [93:12]
• Dave Ramsey: "Trust your instincts. It's okay to love him and not be with him." [91:07]

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Caller 5: Martin from Lubbock, Texas – Insurance Decisions for a Rancher

Timestamp: [66:11] – [72:20]

Issue:
Martin, a 65-year-old rancher, considers self-insuring his home and outbuildings instead of maintaining a hefty insurance policy costing nearly $10,000 annually.

Discussion:
Martin assesses his ability to self-insure, estimating replacement costs for his property and barns at around $1 million. He wonders if foregone insurance premiums are justified given his financial capacity.

Advice from George and Dave:
George and Dave stress the importance of insurance for peace of mind and financial protection against unforeseen disasters. They argue that the cost of insurance is negligible compared to the potential financial devastation of a major loss. They advise Martin to maintain his insurance coverage to safeguard his assets and avoid depleting his savings in case of emergencies.

Notable Quotes:

• Martin: "I'm to the point of trying to decide if I want to self-insure... I've got enough cash set aside." [66:14]
• George Camel: "It's worth the peace of mind knowing you don't have to burn your own cash for insurance." [69:43]
• Dave Ramsey: "Put that cash away and have peace of mind... That's a smart financial move." [69:58]

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Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey and George Camel reinforce foundational financial principles:

1. Avoid Debt Consolidation Shortcuts: Opt for proven strategies like the debt snowball method over complex loan consolidations.
2. Manage Contracts Carefully: Always understand contractual obligations to avoid unnecessary financial penalties.
3. Optimize Tax Withholdings: Regularly update tax withholdings to prevent large refunds or bills.
4. Diversify Investments Wisely: Balance the cost and performance of different investment vehicles to maximize returns.
5. Prioritize Financial Independence in Relationships: Ensure that personal relationships support rather than hinder financial and personal growth.
6. Maintain Adequate Insurance: Protect assets to prevent financial ruin from unforeseen events.

By addressing real-life financial dilemmas with practical advice, this episode underscores the importance of strategic planning and disciplined financial management in achieving long-term wealth and stability.

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Notable Quotes Compilation:

• Jeremy: "Why do you need to consolidate it?" [04:39]
• George Camel: "Just pay off your freaking debts... get out of this debt in two years." [05:15]
• Dave Ramsey: "Don't do this. Consolidation loan feels like it's become too complex because it feels like they're trying to find a shortcut." [07:07]
• George Camel: "You'll start putting money away in that savings account, correct?" [124:53]
• Dave Ramsey: "Trust your instincts. It's okay to love him and not be with him." [91:07]

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This episode of The Ramsey Show offers listeners actionable insights into managing debt, making informed financial decisions, and fostering healthy financial habits, all while navigating the complexities of personal relationships and investments.

Transcript

[Ken Coleman]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

[George Camel]

Start budgeting for free today.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the Ramsey show, where America shows up to have a conversation about their money, about their profession, and about their relationships. The phone number is 888-2552-258882-55225. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman. George, keep more of that money and I'm gonna help you make more of that money that you want to make. That's a combination today. You ready to go?

[George Camel]

I'm stoked.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got a very elated no jacket today. No bomber jacket.

[George Camel]

You went with a traditional, you're ready to go sailing. So I thought let's keep it cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

I, I do have a summer vibe about me today.

[George Camel]

Summer Ken is my favorite version.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm here for it. Jeremy starts us off in Lexington, South Carolina. Jeremy, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, how's it going? Longtime listener, first time caller.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, we love those. Welcome aboard.

[Ken Coleman]

So it's absolutely a pleasure to get on the line here. So my wife and I are in a bit of a situation. We have, both of us have student debt, student loans. We have a credit card, and my dad has a parent plus loan now. Education system hasn't really told us what to do for a parent plus loan, but we have been educated now. So basically we're wondering if we can use a mortgage loan from buying my dad's property that he was going to give to us anyway to pay off mine, my wife's student loans, in addition to the parent plus loan that is on his credit plus, you know, a credit card.

[George Camel]

How much total debt do you have?

[Ken Coleman]

Total debt is around, including the credit card would probably be 110.

[George Camel]

110. That's both student loans and the credit card. But not including the parent plus loan, which is in your dad's name, including.

[Ken Coleman]

The parent plus loan plus the mortgage that is on the current place that I have right now, which is only about 23,000.

[George Camel]

So you have a home right now?

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[George Camel]

So it's your dad's place?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm basically renting it from him. The mortgage is all still in his name that I'm just paying it directly.

[George Camel]

This feels all out of sorts. Okay, so the 23,000 left on the mortgage, you're living there. You're essentially paying rent, which covers the mortgage, but you're paying it directly to the mortgage company.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. It's only 460amonth.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

You can't rent for that.

[George Camel]

And you're saying your dad wants to now sell you, the house, you would then take on a bigger mortgage in order to do so.

[Ken Coleman]

So no, he's not going to get any profit from this.

[George Camel]

Okay, so explain to me how the mortgage goes.

[Ken Coleman]

He was already going to give it to me. The land of five acres and the.

[George Camel]

House when he passes. No, already, That's a terrible idea.

[Ken Coleman]

So he was already going to give it to me, but now we have this debt that we need to consolidate.

[George Camel]

Why do you need to consolidate it?

[Ken Coleman]

Because, well, the credit card interest is out the roof. I mean, again, it's only 10 grand. But the student loans, you know, he makes double what I make. I make about 53. He makes six figures. So on the Parent plus loan, we've agreed that I'd pay that back. That was an agreement we made in.

[George Camel]

High school when I was young and dumb. Why not just keep the current situation? You have basically low rent. Use your income and your wife's income. Okay, how much total do you guys make?

[Ken Coleman]

She makes 45 a year and I make 53.

[George Camel]

Okay, so about 100,000 a year. How quickly can we pay off 110,000? That becomes the equation, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yep. I mean, we're looking at seven years, but.

[George Camel]

No, no, that's crazy. Your rent is 400 bucks and it's going to take you seven years to pay off 100 grand?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's the student loans too.

[George Camel]

So that's, that's what we would pay.

[Ken Coleman]

To pay them off or move the money around. But in the long term of having an income driven student loan repayment plan is stretching that out to 20, 30 years.

[George Camel]

Well, yeah, income driven repayment plan would do that to you, but you're not. If you're doing the debt snowball method that we teach and you're aggressively attacking your debt, not just making minimum payments, you would knock this thing out in probably closer to three or four years at this rate.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay?

[George Camel]

And I would tell you, get your income up, get your expenses down, because making 100 grand with as low rent as you guys have, you should be able to throw a few thousand dollars a month at this debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay?

[George Camel]

So think about that. Could you throw four grand a month at the debt if you really got tight?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, think about the math on that. That's almost 50 grand a year. You said you have 110 total. This thing's done in a little over two years.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[George Camel]

So where did this 10 year plan come from? And what the. What the scheming of Dad's going to give me the house to do a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Consolidation loan it feels like it's become too complex because it feels like they're trying to find a shortcut.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the shortcut right now is he. He's expecting the parent plus loan repayment to be like $500 a month. And on top of what we're already paying for our student loans. That's kind of a new thing of we're adding this $500 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but how does that. I get what you're trying to say, but how does that give you the case to go? Well, let's do this really convoluted thing and try to figure this out. He signed up for this. He's a grown man.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then I guess I want to.

[Ken Coleman]

Make sure having the leverage of the land and putting it in our name.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just, I mean, but George, why is that a terrible. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to give George a minute or two here to explain why that's a really bad idea. He started down that path and I want you to hear him out.

[George Camel]

Okay, so I'm, I'm confused as to. You're trying to move one debt to another debt and essentially say, hey, we're going to take on a mortgage instead of paying all these debts off separately, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. A single payment a month.

[George Camel]

And that's going to solve the problems how?

[Ken Coleman]

Less stress. And I mean, we can, we can't get taxes from. We can't put an expense or get tax breaks from the student loans or credit card interest.

[George Camel]

So now you're doing this for a mortgage interest tax break.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, it's an additional benefit.

[George Camel]

Do you guys itemize your deductions when you file your taxes?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, because I have a business as well.

[George Camel]

The interest on this, I mean, you're not, it's not even going to be enough to warrant the tax break. I feel like everything you're doing is for a different reason than what you originally told me. I think we need one clear goal. And if you're calling this show, that goal should be to be completely debt free.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's the goal. And as fast as we can get that.

[George Camel]

The other part is if your dad gives you this house now, then it's going to move the step up in basis to what did he buy the house for originally?

[Ken Coleman]

So it's a double wide, which means it has a title.

[George Camel]

So it's going down in value every day.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't do this.

[George Camel]

Why are we doing it? This just gets crazier.

[Dave Ramsey]

And by the way, even if it did make sense the amount of savings is going to be next to nothing. Am I right, George? Yeah, Quick calculation. So, Jeremy, this idea that I'm lowering stress by coming up with one payment is not true. The stress is from the total debt. And the money saved on this is not going to be worth it.

[George Camel]

I would not take a mortgage out on something going down in value, not a double wide.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jeremy, that's like a country song.

[George Camel]

This is bad news. You should be trying to get out of this situation, not stick yourself in it further and further and further. No more deals with dad, no more scheming, no more moving one debt to another. Just pay off your freaking debts. You sign the dotted line, you guys have a solid income. Get the income up, expenses down, get out of this debt in two years. And that's the only solution I would be pursuing at this point. Hey, George Camel here. Listen, we need to talk specifically about Mama Bear legal forms. Allow me to paint you a picture. You plan a vacation, you make a budget, you book the Airbnb, you build a spreadsheet of activities because you're that person. You fire up the Maps app and boom, trip of a lifetime. So here's the question. If you plan that carefully for a one week getaway, why are you just winging it when it comes to your will? Not having a will in place is like dropping your family off at a foreign airport with no map, no translator, and no clue what happens next. So when you pass away, sure, your family will be grieving, but they're also overwhelmed, stuck in court and letting the government decide what happens to everything you worked so hard for. All because you didn't leave clear instructions. So the good news is you can fix this in 20 minutes with mama Bear legal forms. I use them for my own will. And it was fast, simple, and gave me and my family peace of mind. There's no stuffy lawyer's office, no drama, Just a few clicks and your family's protected. Listen, a will is too important to ignore. It's how you love your people. Well, even after you've yeeed your last haw, as we say in the south. So go to mamabearlegalforms.com and handle this tonight. Use the promo code, Ramsey, and you'll save 20%. That's mama bearlegalforms.com, promo code. Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dale is on the line in Augusta, Maine. Dale, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, thank you for taking my call. I have a question that's. I just don't know how to answer it. If I were unable to get out of a contract that is over $16,000 for window replacements. Would I be better off to go forward with a replacement installation or pay the 30% fee required if I don't follow through?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Camel]

What caused you to. To back out now?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it was. It was. It was just a really stupid idea that we signed on the dotted line or I signed on the dotted line because the. It was a. They. Somebody put a flyer in my window. My house is 160 years old. We need windows. We don't need fabulous windows, but we need seven windows replacement. So I called them, they came to the house. The man was amazing. He did a great presentation. And at the end of it he gave us the price. Now, I really knew better, but for some reason, not that night. And when was when he boat? A week and a half ago.

[George Camel]

Okay, and when did you sign the contract?

[Ken Coleman]

That night.

[George Camel]

So it's already been like 10 days since you signed the contract?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, and what I did was the first thing I did was call an attorney and the second thing I did was call the Dave Ramsey show. Now I might be out of it, but it's not all completed yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you. What do you mean? The lawyer helped you start the process?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. I'm 70 this year. So I called Senior plus and they turned me on to a free attorney. Like they just give you advice. And he looked over the contract and he's working on getting them to do a rescission. Like we are waiting to have the finance company get returned the 30% they pull. So not finalized yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you already made some type of deposit?

[Ken Coleman]

They pulled it. They pulled it when you signed the cop. When I signed the contract, it had a 30% condition if you didn't go through with it. And that gave them, they thought the right to pull 30% of that 16,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do they have access to your bank account?

[Ken Coleman]

No, they. The deal is this. They tell you an exorbitant amount, then they cut it down. And then when you say no, it's, well, we can finance it at like 5% for 15 years. And now you have a payment of $130 a month.

[George Camel]

Is that what you did?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

So you financed it and you've so far financed 30%?

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Is that what I'm getting?

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you made any payments, though? That's what I'm trying to understand.

[Ken Coleman]

No. No payments. The payments come after the windows are installed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm just trying to help us get to the bottom of this. So I understand you Signed a contract and it would include a payment plan, but that doesn't actually start happening until the windows are installed. That. That I understand, but do they currently have your bank account to where it's like an auto draft. Do they have any access to your accounts?

[Ken Coleman]

No, but what you're doing when you sign that is just signing a loan. They partner with a finance company and they did get the almost $5,000.

[George Camel]

So essentially you're $5,000 in debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, from the. From the.

[George Camel]

From the finance.

[Dave Ramsey]

From the finance company. They gave the window company the five grand.

[George Camel]

So now you got two people to deal with the financ and the window company.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

So you need to be checking both of those contracts that you sign to figure out if there's a way out. I don't know that there's a way out. You signed the dotted line multiple times. At this point, do you have any money?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, not much. I got a call from the finance company saying the contractor has asked them to cancel.

[George Camel]

Have they ordered materials yet?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I told them no, I didn't want the window.

[Dave Ramsey]

See, that's what I was saying.

[George Camel]

That'll give you leverage. If they haven't ordered materials yet, they may be willing to reduce that and help you get out of it. There may still be a fee, a stupid tax.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the window company is easy because you just go, look, I don't want the windows. But the problem is there's already been this financial transaction of $5,000 that you have to put in a rewind. That to me is.

[George Camel]

The question is, did the financing company give the 5,000 to the window company?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like they did.

[George Camel]

And if the window company hasn't used that to purchase materials or pay for labor, that's where I'm going. You might be able to get some or all of it back. But again, that's going to be between you and the attorney and the contracts. You know, us bozos in here can't help much. But I'm hoping because you haven't gone that far into it yet, there may be some resolution.

[Ken Coleman]

Me too.

[George Camel]

And that's where the contract will stipulate all of that. There's no way to go. Well, we're going to rip up the contract. That's just not going to happen. And so it all depends on what the contract says are your rights to cancel, what the fees are, if you should cancel. And you know, worst case, you're on the hook for this debt, at least for five. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And hopefully put a stop to it. Goes no more than five and Then I'm the guy that goes, well, if I made this dumb decision and the window company's got 5,000 of my money, I'm going, I want $5,000 worth of windows.

[George Camel]

Because you still need windows.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you still need windows. And so if you're. If you can't get out of this. This loan, pay the 5,000 off quickly, but get you some windows. Get you how? I don't know how much 5,000 get you these days.

[George Camel]

I'd hope a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's probably a window and a half knowing. Knowing this world.

[George Camel]

But seven windows for 16 grand? That feels insane.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, they're two feet by four. There's their standard size windows. It was just.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I'm in the wrong business. I could be out here charging over two grand per window.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, you're pretty smart.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I mean, is there anyone else involved here? Are you alone, single?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I am happily married. And. And he's just a big supporter of me. He set to the whole thing, and we both agree.

[George Camel]

I wish he wasn't a supporter of you right now. Wish he called this out. He just sat there. Yeah, sounds like a good deal, honey. You go for it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's my man.

[George Camel]

Oh, my goodness.

[Ken Coleman]

But here's the good thing that came out of it. I've been listening to you guys for just a few months, and we are now on board with the baby steps, and we're both, like, almost 70.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Hey, I gotta jump in real quick. Can I tell you something? Because I'm trying to. I'm trying to think all the way through this deal. If we. If you can't get out of the 5,000, like, they're going, we're not giving you that back. You got two options. You eat it, but. Or you get windows. But I'm looking at this online. You got to double check all this stuff. But the average cost replaced a single window, according to a thousand homeowners is $554.

[George Camel]

That sounds more like it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Ken Coleman]

But that's now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let's go ahead, and if we can't get the 5,000 back, get you $5,000 worth of windows. But it's better than 16. Yes, yes. 5,000 is better than 16,000. So I'm just. George, I'm just going. Worst case scenario.

[George Camel]

I'm just wondering, hey, can you pay a $500 fee and say, hey, listen, here's 500 bucks for your troubles. Get me out of this thing, give me the money back, and get out of the financing deal? Yeah, that's probably a best case scenario.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

But I would keep working with that attorney to figure out what's going on in this contract. What are your state laws? What rights do you have as the consumer?

[Dave Ramsey]

Does this window?

[Ken Coleman]

Does this estate loss?

[Dave Ramsey]

Does this window replacement? Is this a local company? They got a local shop.

[George Camel]

How'd you find them?

[Ken Coleman]

They're national. Pink flyer in my door.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I wonder if you could call your sales guy back, who was such a wonderful gentleman when he was pitching you and I wonder.

[Ken Coleman]

He told me.

[Dave Ramsey]

What'd he tell you?

[Ken Coleman]

He said this isn't the first time somebody's tried to cancel. It's not going to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, he's a gem. He's. Yeah, he goes from being Prince Charming to Clint Eastwood just that fast, George.

[George Camel]

Yikes. And this is why you got a flyer in my door? I'm never doing business with you. Get them flyers out here. Don't knock on my door. I'll report you to the HOA. I'm not scared.

[Dave Ramsey]

Would you?

[George Camel]

Yeah, 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty snippy email.

[George Camel]

I don't answer the door. I don't look at flyers. I toss them right in the trash.

[Dave Ramsey]

What if I come knock on your door tonight?

[George Camel]

You can pound sand and kick rocks. Text me first.

[Dave Ramsey]

Even if I got an apple pie or something, I'm standing there smiling, even more suspicious. Me?

[George Camel]

Yeah. You know I can't have gluten. You trying to kill me?

[Ken Coleman]

Foreign. What's up, guys? It's Jade. And let me tell you, when my husband and I had $280,000 of student loan debt, we were not sitting around waiting on the government to bail us out.

[George Camel]

We did the hard work to pay it off ourselves.

[Ken Coleman]

So if you're still holding out hope that forgiveness is coming, that's like you waiting for your landlord to start paying your rent.

[George Camel]

It ain't gonna happen.

[Ken Coleman]

If you really want those student loans gone, you need a plan. And for some of you, refinancing might be part of the plan. So I recommend Laurel Road. With Laurel Road, you can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes. And if you have a more complex situation, you can set up 30 minutes to talk to a real, actual human being to find out if refinancing is right for you. Ramsey's advice is clear. Get out of debt as fast as possible, and a lower rate or a shorter term can make that possible. Laurel Road has low competitive rates and they even offer interest rate discounts. So stop waiting on the maybes and the somedays and start taking action today. Go to LaurelRoad.com Ramsey to get a.

[George Camel]

Free rate quote or schedule a free 30 minute consultation.

[Ken Coleman]

That's LaurelRoad.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, I want to say thanks to all of you that have shared the show recently or a long time ago. We're just seeing the growth of the show and we're so grateful because you are the reason we do the show. And when you share it or you subscribe or you follow however you're participating and consuming the show, that the algorithm rewards that. And we're so grateful. And so we want to reward you, the audience, by making it even, make it even easier. And with Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube. So this playlist, Ramsey 101 is what it's called. It's filled with classic Ramsey content, like the baby steps, how to pay off debt with the debt snowball, how to build an emergency fund, some of the real basics and so much more, of course. So all you got to do to access this, and by the way, this is something that you can now share. Somebody's kicking the tires or they you're telling about what you're doing. They're like, how can I? Hey, boom. I'm going to go right to the Ramsey 101 playlist and I can get you the fundamentals. So they're not searching. It's a great way to lift them. And you do that by clicking on the link at the top of the show notes to open the Ramsey101 playlist. You can text it, DM it, send it in a group chat, all of the ways. So it's also featured at the top of our YouTube channel. So there you go. So, questions, who would you share it with? George, I put Jade on the spot the other day when I talked about this. Who would you share the Ramsey 101 playlist? You got somebody.

[George Camel]

Right now my heart goes to the, to the haters because they know me, they know my job.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're coming at you, say, hey, maybe.

[George Camel]

This will change your mind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So maybe to a family member, knock.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yourself out with the old Ramsey 101 vault.

[George Camel]

Yeah, well, I'm looking at it right now. 12 videos too. It really sums up the entire ethos of Ramsey because you never know what to share. A clip of Ken, a clip of John, a crazy call from the show. This really will center you, give you a foundation core stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's go to Zach in Phoenix, Arizona. Zach, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, sorry, my alarm just went off. Can you guys hear me?

[George Camel]

Okay, yeah, just waking up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you make it on time? Are we just getting out of bed? What's the alarm for?

[Ken Coleman]

I have so many different alarms, I can't even tell you. I need an alarm to tell me what my alarms are for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, can I just say I'm a little alarm that another alarm is going to go off while we're talking to you?

[George Camel]

Yeah, I don't want to be alarmist, but you should do something about. About that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm so glad I got you, too, because I love a good dad joke.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm a little nervous, but they say I have a face for radio, so here we go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, so do we, so join the club.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's my situation. So, unfortunately, my dad passed away recently in April.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[Ken Coleman]

And, yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's no fun. No will or trust left behind, so that's no fun either. I have a brother and s. Both adults, my brothers in his early 30s, sister in her mid-40s that we were left behind, and a stepbrother as well, who's in his mid-20s. Stepbrother, wasn't adopted. So the heirs are just me and my two biological siblings. My dad wasn't married. My two siblings want to do one thing with the. The estate, and I want to do another. They. They want to keep the house and all in my brother's name. It's got about 308k in equity on it and 103k left on the mortgage. And I personally just would prefer to be bought out. And if, you know, they're reluctantly agreeing to the terms, but it's creating a lot of friction, and I'm just wondering if what I'm wanting is ethically sound or not.

[Dave Ramsey]

George, I don't hear anything unethical.

[George Camel]

Yeah. What part makes you feel like it's unethical?

[Ken Coleman]

I guess just knowing that my. I'm not helping keep the house, I suppose, with my share. And we all know that my dad would want to keep the house, and his goals were kind of unrealistic. He wanted all of us to live in it together, like, all of us adults and my own little family.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So what would your share be.

[Ken Coleman]

If they were to buy equity, so about 103k maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they've agreed to do this?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I mean, it hasn't been, like, written in stone yet, but, you know, we just started consulting with the probate lawyer, and as of right now, that's. That's the plan. But, you know, it's kind of making my sister and brother look at me different.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who cares?

[George Camel]

I mean, that's just part of the process, especially since your dad didn't have any plan in place. And so it's got to go through probate court. This is the pro. It's not a litigious thing where you're angry at your siblings. Just. This is the process to go through this.

[Dave Ramsey]

They. They don't like it. But you can reduce the friction by taking the high road. Yeah, don't engage. Don't engage in a debate about it. Just go, here's my reasons. I'll say it one time. You can ask me any question about my reasons. I'm not looking for any stress or tension with you guys on this. I just want. I just want my clean cut and I'm out. And they may not like it. They'll get over it.

[George Camel]

And it's also the least amount of damage because you're saying they're going to want to keep the house. So it's only going to strain the relationships further. If you try to force the sale, you know, with some kind of partition action in court to do this now, they're really going to not like you. And so if they want to keep the house and you say, hey, I don't want any part in this house, you can buy me out. They're going to have to, you know, does he have the cash to do it? Is he going to refinance? What's his plan to buy you out?

[Ken Coleman]

I think refinance is the plan.

[George Camel]

And can he afford this on his own?

[Ken Coleman]

I think so. It's. So it has 103 left on mortgage to probably double.

[George Camel]

And what about sister? Because she's not living there.

[Ken Coleman]

She's going to donate her share to my brother.

[George Camel]

Oh, wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. This guy must be some all American, you know, hero. What's the story that your dad leaves him the house? Your sister's going, hey, take my share. What's this guy got on you? Or is he just, like, super charismatic?

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's. It's just a really strange situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, about a year before this happened, my dad was telling me my brother was kind of already fighting with me about it, saying like, hey, this is my plans for if and when dad passes. I'm going to take the house and I'll take control of it. And I was like, well, hang on a second. You know, that's not really fair. There's multiple heirs. And I asked my dad to talk to my brother. He said he would, and he said he'd get a will. And Trust done. And he just never did, unfortunately, is your brother. The oldest intentions weren't to leave it all to one person.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

Ideally, he would want all of us living in it and, but you know, that's just not practical.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the brother is just, the brother is just kind of going, he's flexing. There's no will, there's no nothing. There's no real agreement other than he's saying, this is what I want to do.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm asking because I was like to have a conversation like, hey, you know, I want to keep the house. Can we all try to keep it together versus just saying like, hey, here's what's going to happen. I'm going to take over everything. It kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. And I was like, okay, well, yeah, I don't even want to try to co own this house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I, I, I am more confident than ever, George and Zach, that this is absolutely not anywhere close to unethical, but it's actually very wise. What your brother is doing is absolutely unhealthy. There's not a positive motive behind this. This is pure selfish, pure power play. I don. Your sister's deal is. But he's got some type of real intimidation or hold on her. It's, the whole thing is nuts. And I think it's great that you're trying to get out of it, don't you, George? You have any different thoughts?

[George Camel]

Well, no, it's, it's not going to hold up in probate court for him to be like, this is just going to be mine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I know. I can't wait for that. I can't wait for that conversation.

[George Camel]

So they're going to go. No, all three are the heirs. And here's what that means. Either you force the sale, or he needs to buy you out. That's the only option.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you just sit over there and smile.

[George Camel]

You being a jerk. Yeah. He goes, okay, I'm gonna free finance now. I have a $200,000 mortgage. Yeah, hopefully he can afford it. And if not, that's his problem. And it's up to him if he needs to sell the house later on down the road, if he can't afford the upkeep. So you're not doing anything wrong. I would not let him make you feel bad about this. You're not being a terrible brother. You're just doing what was not said because dad didn't have a will or estate. And this is the mess that you're left with. And I'm sorry for that on top of grieving your father's loss, you also now have this strained relationship to deal with.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know what? One other thing I'd say, and George, correct me if you, if you disagree with this, I wouldn't let him manipulate you. Between this end of his phone call and probate court, you're owed your share of it. You get to decide. Don't just kind of walk away from this and give him. I feel like he's done that to your sister. He's hoping you'll get him already capitulated. I would hold firm, man. What's yours is yours. You be a man, you stand up to him, he'll walk away.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions? Possibly, Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non profit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union.

[George Camel]

So any profits that the credit union.

[Ken Coleman]

Makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. But that's what's more important than that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Though, is the fact that the customer.

[Ken Coleman]

Is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I find very few credit unions.

[Ken Coleman]

That aren't very customer centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've.

[Ken Coleman]

Done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says fair Winds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with [e-mail] or on their app. And you'll have access to over 33,000 ATMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, you guys know how much I.

[Ken Coleman]

Hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds.

[George Camel]

And check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys, it's incredible.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey.

[George Camel]

Fairwinds is federally insured by NCUA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. A lot of decisions involved and the clickbait headlines and confusing data can make you a little bit uncertain. And that's why we're in the trends for you and we're breaking it down. Just to give you an idea of meeting, home prices went up slightly last month and more home homes are on the market than have been since 2019. So to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com market. That's ramseysolutions.com market. Or you can always click on the link in the show notes in the podcast app that you are listening to US or on YouTube. Travis is up next in Raleigh, North Carolina. Travis, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

We're doing well. How are you today?

[Ken Coleman]

Doing well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

So I have some questions. I went through a divorce in the last probably year and a half. I'm 33. I have two children and I have split custody of them, 50. 50. I don't have any child support or alimony. So basically my biggest expenses are my rent and my child care cost. Basically my question is I'm trying to start building for retirement because I'm basically starting over in life and trying to invest into my future, essentially.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have any debt?

[Ken Coleman]

I do not. After the divorce, I had a good little bit, about $6,000. But I hit it hard and I paid off all my credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of savings do you have?

[Ken Coleman]

Currently I have 1000 in my emergency fund and I just opened up in a Roth IRA in the last year. I've only got about 1400 in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your income?

[Ken Coleman]

I have no truck payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. So what's your income?

[Ken Coleman]

I currently make approximately 85,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you do?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm an HVLC technician.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What is a, what's a financial path forward look like for you as far as growth in that role? Is there a path to six figures in your area based on your expertise? What's that look like for you as far as potential growth?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm on the pretty high end already.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so you have no debt. You're making 85,000 you've just started what we would call baby step two. I mean, excuse me, baby step one, you have the thousand dollar emergency fund and you just knocked out your credit card debt, so you're really in baby step three, which is to get the three to six months. Am I understanding that correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Yep, that's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well, George, walk him through what that's going to look like for him as far as saving for retirement.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I love that you're excited to build wealth for the future, but right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hold on, I think he's got a correction here. Travis, I'm sorry, it sound like you were about to say something else like.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yes, my goal. I would like to retire by roughly 62 because it's a labor intensive job and I can't hear myself crawling into houses and addicts.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, perfect.

[Ken Coleman]

Two years.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, George.

[Ken Coleman]

Determined.

[George Camel]

I crunch your numbers and I know your future. So here's the deal. Right now is not the time to be investing because if you have a $1200 emergency, you're going back into debt. And so right now what we need to do is take that amazing income and stack as much of it away as possible into that emergency fund until we get to that three to six month mark. And for you, having been punched in the face like that with a divorce, I'd want to lean towards six months. So what does a full month of expenses take for you to live currently? Is it $4,000, $3,000?

[Ken Coleman]

I spent about 800 in child care and my rent is 1700, so.

[George Camel]

And then food, utilities, insurance. Yeah, so are we talking 3, 500?

[Ken Coleman]

I also put it. Yeah, probably. And then I also put away, I started investing into my 401k through work because they match 4%.

[George Camel]

Okay. But here's what I'm asking you to do, and I think it's going to get you there a whole lot faster, even to your wealth. Goal is to pause all investing right now, even the match, until you have this emergency fund saved up. So you, you need about 20 grand before you go. Okay, now I'm ready to start building wealth because we're still kind of building some foundation here. We're not ready to build for the future quite yet. You're on the cusp. But you do this for another, let's say six months. Could you really sock away, you know, three grand a month for six months to get to that 20 grand mark?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I just have to keep hitting it hard.

[George Camel]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

Working more overtime.

[George Camel]

And so now's not the time to let your foot off the gas. You'll get there. You'll get back to enjoying life a little bit more, Eating out, saving up for, you know, vacations and upgrading car and all that stuff. But right now you're in baby step three, which is a slog. It's a grind, man. It's not the fun. Baby step. Baby step two, at least you're paying off debt. You're seeing some progress. Baby step three, you're just stacking, stacking and stacking and stacking. But six months from now, let's say before the end of the year, you're going to be back to investing. But instead of a measly 4%, you're going to be up to 15% of 85,000, which is over $12,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

So run those.

[George Camel]

Can I crunch the numbers for you?

[Dave Ramsey]

I love when you do this, George.

[George Camel]

When do you turn 34?

[Ken Coleman]

In October.

[George Camel]

Okay. He had to think about it. I got nervous.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. I wasn't sure where that was.

[George Camel]

So by the. From 34, you said you have 1400 bucks in retirement right now?

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Okay. So from 34 to 62, let's say you never get a race. You make $85,000 until you're 62, but you invest 15%, it's a little over a thousand bucks a month. You ready for your grand total? You're looking at about $2 million in that one account.

[Dave Ramsey]

How's that? How's that? Yes. At 60. At 60 what?

[George Camel]

That's at 62.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was your stated goal, Travis. At 62, Georgia's got you right at $2 million. If you do exactly what he said. How's. How's that feel?

[Ken Coleman]

That would be amazing.

[George Camel]

It's like you won a game show. But here's what it takes. Consistency. That's why you need this emergency fund, because having that in place means you're never going to debt again. You can consistently invest and have margin for the future. That's the purpose of getting out of debt, too, to have that margin. And my guess is you're good at your job if you're getting paid 85,000, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, absolutely.

[George Camel]

So it's probably going to go up over time. It's not a far stretch to say you could be making six figures a few years from now doing this.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I believe so.

[George Camel]

And that, therefore that 15% grows as your income grows, which means you're going to have Even more than 2 million if you do this stuff. And that's not including getting your home paid off. Do you have a home right Now?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I rent.

[George Camel]

Do you want to be a homeowner someday?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, eventually I do. Right now I'm just trying to rebuild my wealth.

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So part of your wealth will be a paid for home one day. And so as you build that 15%, keep investing that. Anything above that you can save for a down payment. And you know, five, ten years from now, you're gonna have a big stack of cash to be a homeowner and start building some equity as you build wealth through your 401k. So I feel good about this. I know it feels like you got knocked down, you'll never get back up again, but man, you are 33.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right. And Travis, those numbers go up pretty substantially if you're doing some side hustle work because of your H VAC experience. You can put more money in that calculator that George is walking through. And by the way, that'[e-mail] the investment calculator. And you can see how those numbers go up. So if the goal is 62, then you know you can always make more money and through doing more work and, and put more in and then you get that compound effect. So if that's the goal, then you.

[Ken Coleman]

Gotta get 85, 000. Also includes a lot of overtime.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, good for you though. You got kiddos, man. Welcome to the. Welcome to life. Oh yeah, you're the sole provider now.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a boy, so. I know. But I also would encourage you that you don't have to limit yourself to. The only way I make more money is overtime. I think you have a lot more skill and experience than you're giving yourself credit for. And you're still a young guy, and I mean young guy. So let's be looking for opportunities to make six figures. What would that ha. What would have to happen? And it. And let's not just assume that I've got a work 60 hours a week to get there. You've got some skill, you've got experience. Make relationships and connections happen all over the place. And you'd be surprised where you are 10 years from now. But that's going to allow you to get to the point at 62 where you can walk away and walk away with comfort. That's the goal. Not just walk away in order to.

[George Camel]

Shut down, not just survive. We want you thriving.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly right. Thanks for the call, Travis. Good stuff. George, a few things get me more excited than you punching numbers in the investment. I love it.

[George Camel]

It's nerdery. Meets hope.

[Dave Ramsey]

We need some music to support that. And a big reveal.

[George Camel]

Some calculator music.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, a drum roll.

[George Camel]

I'll work on that.

[Ken Coleman]

When you go through a job loss or job change and lose your employer sponsored health insurance, there's no better time to try Christian healthcare ministry. That's right. There's another option besides COBRA to take care of your family during that time. Because if you didn't know the cost of COBRA has gone up a lot in the past few years. And CHM is an affordable, biblically based alternative to health insurance. So do your own research. CHM is a great option that's potentially a third of the price of cobra. It's a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And the support you get from CHM goes beyond helping you pay for medical bills. Members become part of a family that prays for them when they have a medical event. Try getting that with cobra. So if you're going through a job loss, life change, or just want to explore other options to save on healthcare, CHM might be perfect for you. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So find out more at chministries.org [e-mail] budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the Ramsey show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession and their relationship. The phone number to jump in is 888-25-5225, alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman, thrilled to be with you all and Lizzy is with us in Toronto. Lizzy, how are you and how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Fine, thank you. So just a Backstory. I'm Lizzie, 25 year old mom of two, under the age of three. I'm unemployed and I have a fiance that works six days a week, extensive hours. He makes around 150k a year. But when he's home, he thinks because he brings in all the financial support that all he has to do is be on his phone and do nothing around the house. And I'm at my wits end and I'm ready to leave, but because I feel like I'm in a prison where I have no family, I have no resources of getting out and showing him that I'm not gonna stay somewhere where you're begging me to get a job, but I still have to hold all the manpower in the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, yeah, so this is, this is a simple solution, but it's gonna be difficult. It's Going to be hard to do, but it's pretty simple. You're going to have to to you're doing a lot on your own, it sounds like. Anyway, he's bringing in all the income. This relationship is. Sounds like it's non existent. Whatever exists is certainly unhealthy. So it's the fiance. Are they his kids? Are they somebody else's kids? What's the story there?

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, they're our kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you want out, correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Because I just think this person is not willing to change and he thinks that there's nothing wrong with him or he's not doing anything wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

I agree. So you should get out. You guys aren't married anyway, so. Yeah, what I would say is you need to figure out what to do based on him not being around. You have to treat it like he's not around, period. No money. Now you're in a situation where you are in a prison because he's paying for all the bills. You have no income. So the simple steps are, and I say simple, I'm not saying this is going to be easy, but the simple steps are, you've got to figure out who would watch the kids. When I'm working full time, can I do full time work from a remote situation and still be able to watch the kids? I think that's probably highly unlikely, but you'll know the answer to that. So the answer is no. Let's assume it's no. Then you've got to come up with a situation where you go, what? How much money would I need to make to not only take care of me and the kids, but also be able to pay for the childcare above and beyond the basics you're tracking with me so far, correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it's time for you to get out there and, you know, shake the tree and you got to find work and you got to say, I'm moving forward on my own. If he, once I leave, gets the wake up call that he desperately needs to get great news, let's repair the relationship at that point. But you've got to go. And then you're a mama bear. And so the question is, what experience, what skill set do you have in the workplace?

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm in business management, but I just, I just finished studying business management in 2024 and before that I did aesthetics and spa management.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what do you think you could make? And I'm not holding you to this. This is just so that we can begin to get our brains working. What do you think the, the income opportunity is for you in, in your economy there, in, in Toronto or nearby.

[Ken Coleman]

I think there's maybe minimum 50, 50k a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Can you live on 50k a year comfortably?

[Ken Coleman]

Probably not. Unless it's paycheck to paycheck. Like it would be paycheck to paycheck if it's 52.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to bring George in real quick because he's really, really good here at coaching. I want, she knows the professional side of things. And by the way, I'm going to give you a copy of my book. Find the work you're wired to do. It's got an assessment in it that I want you to take and it's really going to help you from an ideation standpoint and you really need to take it. That's my gift to you. But I want George to come in here because you, as you're looking for professional opportunities, realistically you may have to work two jobs in the early days to be able to afford child care. And George, I want you to walk her through what she needs to be doing even now and building an actual budget.

[Ken Coleman]

They're also his kids too, so I think I get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you said he does nothing. You said he does nothing. So I'm assuming he's not going to help you. If he helps you, great.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I think he would like he's okay with his responsibilities. He knows his financial responsibilities. I think it's the household responsibilities he doesn't want to take accountability for because I'm not working. So he thinks I don't have to do it.

[George Camel]

I don't like this idea that you're not working. I have a stay at home wife. I would rather be here because it is chaos at the house, she's exhausted. And so the idea that he thinks you're not working is already disrespectful. He doesn't value you, he doesn't value what you're bringing to this family and raising these children. And so I don't know what, what's going on behind that of if that's from how he grew up or what it is, but you need to have a very direct conversation with him where he doesn't shut down.

[Ken Coleman]

It's generation, it's generational because his mom was also a wife and then his.

[George Camel]

Dad probably didn't value his wife.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he saw his dad and he.

[George Camel]

Goes, this is normal. The man works and the wife just is a leech and she just sits at home all day. It's insane. And so you're not crazy to think this is not okay and you deserve to be valued and respected in the household. And so you have three options. Staying the same is not an option. Right. Staying where you're at. So we either have to deal with the problem at hand and see if he's willing to change and can turn, turn course here, or you leave and start a life on your own. And that's either going to be you as a, you know, single mom working three jobs, trying to find child care. I don't know what that next step is for you. I hope this can be resolved, that he can remain a part of, you know, these kids lives and support them. Him. I don't know what the laws in Canada are as far as, you know, you guys aren't married, but there's probably some common law here that says he's going to have to provide child support.

[Dave Ramsey]

And spousal support and to that end. So Lizzie.

[Ken Coleman]

Canadian.

[Dave Ramsey]

So Lizzie. So hold on a second. I want to give it back to George because you jumped in when I was setting him up and so whatever, whatever.

[Ken Coleman]

Sorry, sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, you're great. No, no, I'm not, I'm not chastising. I want you to hear this part from George. Whatever you think he's going to do to support the kids financially that George becomes a part of this new budget, I want you to walk her through. I think she's got to create a pre budget which will help her determine what she's going to have to earn based on whatever he's going to do to support. But she's on her own. That's where I'm trying to take this.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I would create just a fake budget on your own of what a new life would look like and how you would be able to support this and what custody would look like if he has the kids half the week. I don't know what that would end up being if that's the next step. But that's the kind of part you need to map out on paper to put some facts because right now it's just a lot of emotion and that's hard to grapple with as far as taking a next step.

[Dave Ramsey]

So walk her through that, George, real quick. From rent the four walls to some other things she needs, I would start.

[George Camel]

Researching, hey, what would it look like to live on my own? What would that cost? What is rent in this area? Obviously the kids are really young so they'd likely need to be in some type of daycare or you're working some sort of very flexible Remote job where you can take care of them. That's going to be difficult, too. And so then map it all out. Food, utilities, transportation costs, all of that insurance on my own. What would all that cost? And then go, what do I need to make in order to make that happen? What jobs are out there that pay that with my skill set and time? So it's. You're kind of reverse engineering it. But there's so much going on here where I'm like, he wants her to get a job. For what? They don't need the income. He just thinks she's lazy. And so I think they should swap roles for a day. Let him take care of the kids for 24 hours and see if he's a shell of a human at the end of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I could tell you, I remember we had three kids under the age of three. And I remember one of the first times that Stacy went out for like maybe 90 minutes, I thought I was going to absolutely implode. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John.

[George Camel]

Why don't people want to take care of their family?

[Ken Coleman]

They think they're going to die or something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey.

[Ken Coleman]

The only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a gut punch.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. Oh, you're telling me.

[George Camel]

And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost.

[Ken Coleman]

Lost a spouse.

[Dave Ramsey]

They've lost somebody important to them.

[George Camel]

Me, too. They don't know what to do next.

[Ken Coleman]

Me, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you're gonna have a crisis.

[Ken Coleman]

Here, and, you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a.

[George Camel]

Young widow, she's concerned about how she's.

[Ken Coleman]

Going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[George Camel]

That's exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses.

[George Camel]

So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

To just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

[Ken Coleman]

It's saying, I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

[Ken Coleman]

I've used them personally for 25 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're the only people I trust go.

[Ken Coleman]

To Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and wondering where your money's going, you gotta get on a budget. And our team is hosting free budgeting trainings this month. Who else does that? A free budgeting training and you're gonna learn step by step how to make it stick to a budget using everydollar. And you get your biggest budgeting questions answered in our live Q and A. So sign up for [e-mail] webinar. That's everydollar.com webinar. Katie is up in Tallahassee. Katie, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, guys. How are you today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. What are you doing?

[Ken Coleman]

Not much. So I just have a little financial question. So I've been working for a successful flower shop for the last 10 years and the owners want to retire. And I'd love to purchase the business, but the problem I'm having is getting approved for an SBA loan. And it's very frustrating because I'm 42, I'm debt free, minus the home that I'm currently living in, along with my rental property, which I have about 150,000 in equity. I have an 830 credit score. You know, I have seven credit cards with $70,000 available to me. Like, I feel like I'm doing great, yet I, with. Even with all that, I can't get approved for an SBA loan without a guarantor. And I honestly don't have anyone in my life that would be able to be a guarantor for $180,000 loan. So my question is, if I have all this going for me and I can't be approved without a guarantor, what are other directions that I can go in order to, you know, purchase a business?

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you been working for them?

[Ken Coleman]

10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great relationship.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what's the price?

[Ken Coleman]

It's going to be 180.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. George. What? You can walk her through that. But that's, there's, it's a very do. In fact, I like that price point.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I was scared it was going to be like a seven figure deal here. So, number one, I'm, I hate to say it, I'm kind of glad you didn't get approved for the loan because I don't recommend any business owner take on debt to start or fund or purchase a business. There is another way to do this that I think makes sense for both Parties, and that's something called a structured pay out. So you guys agree it's 180 grand and you pay them $5,000 a month out of the profits of the business. That's 60 grand a year. They get their full 180 within three years. See how that works?

[Ken Coleman]

That seems a lot better.

[George Camel]

Exactly. And then you're not taking on actual debt. And so there's no, there's no guarantee here, but it's saying, hey, I'm going to pay you this percentage or this amount of the profits until we hit this purchase price. And so these can look, we never.

[Ken Coleman]

Thought about doing that without a loan.

[George Camel]

So yeah, the options are out there. Yeah, well, debt is so normalized. We all just go, well, we'll all just try to get loans for everything. But this really protects you and it puts, it gives them some peace that they're actually going to get their money within a reasonable amount of time. And so I would talk to them and explain the situation, say, listen, I can't get a loan out. I want to take over this business. Would you do a structured payout? I would have an attorney draw it up. Up to make sure that both parties agree to every, all the terms involved. And then within that three years, you would then become a full owner over that time.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I would only add to what George said by don't feel pressure, don't over commit on what that amount is every month. You got to really make sure you've got your eyes on the books before you would agree to anything or even propose anything, you need to really understand the books. So for instance, right now, as it stands, do you have any sense of, of what the net profit is on a monthly basis?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. So she has actually given me all access to the books. So because it is a floral shop, you know, February, we're taking in $50,000 versus March, which is 30. So you know, and obviously when you have the bigger months, you set aside the money for the smaller months. So right now, gross, like last year the business made 330 and she's taking home, you know, $15,000 a month. And that's after all utilities as, after all, you know, employees are paid, supplies, everything. So it's a very good business. And she's making wonderful money. So I can definitely do the five a month. That would not be a problem. And you know, my husband works, I don't have any bills. So even if I have to cut back on what I take home, it's gonna be fine because I don't have Any. I don't have anything to.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would be an ideal number just. Just for our conversation? What would be an ideal number to where you pay yourself a really nice chunk and you're paying a chunk to the owner?

[Ken Coleman]

I've thought about that and I'm not sure. I do have some Roths that I want to invest in. You know, I am on baby step number five, so I think it would really depend on, you know, what I take. What I could take would depend on actually, you know, what I'd invest in and what I personally could put in my account for me. So I've thought about it, but I haven't thought about it. It's really just, you know, what's happening in my life at the time. My son's on a church mission, So I pay 500amonth, you know, for him for the next five months. So, you know, at the end of the year, it's. My prices are going to be different. I would love to take home, you know, 25, 3,000. That would be way more than enough than I would ever need. I just, you know, shove it into savings. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're saying ideal if you could pay yourself 2500amonth. You said that would be ideal.

[Ken Coleman]

That would be more than I would need.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my gosh. And she's been paying herself 15,000amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. Right. So, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you know what?

[Ken Coleman]

I would. I could save my daughter's college and, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But I. To bring George in on this opinion here. George, I'll go out. I want to be conservative if I'm her.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if the paying herself 2,500 would be more than she needs and the previous owner's been paying 15, I would want to pay. I would want Katie to pay herself as little as absolute possible so that we pay the 180 price point off so much. And I would also say, George, and I'm also being very conservative here, Katie and I just want to see what George is taking is. I'd also not invest in the business much at all, if any, until I paid the 180. Do you agree or is that too conservative?

[George Camel]

I mean, there's major things that have to be done, like light things to. I don't know what kind of the renovations that need to happen or branding. You know, I don't know what the. The flower shop stated is.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I mean it's, you know, it's. It's an established business. Everything's running great. The only thing I would do is put my van as A company van, because it does need to be replaced. But other than that, there's nothing major that I can see in the future. That, I mean, you know, it's established, it has everything it needs. Just supplies, monthly type of thing. Great.

[George Camel]

Are there any retained earnings in the business?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm sorry?

[George Camel]

Are there any retained earnings in the business?

[Ken Coleman]

What do you mean?

[George Camel]

Like, are there any savings for future investment? Do they put any money aside and would you need to have that?

[Ken Coleman]

I would. I would have a separate savings account, you know, for the business, for emergencies. But I don't. I don't think she has that now. I just think it, you know, she pays us. She's very lax. She just kind of pays as she goes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, she's.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm very. You know, I want my account. My account.

[George Camel]

And you know that this business will continue at this revenue pace even if you took over. Clients won't be leaving. Customers won't be leaving. If they're like, whoa, what happened to ownership?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah. I've been there for 10 years, so I know the clients. And, you know, looking at the profit and loss statements, it just keeps going up every year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, Katie, I'm super pumped.

[George Camel]

Yeah, this sounds like a great deal, honestly.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm going to just say this one more time. I would be super conservative on spending. I'd be very aggressive in pouring every nickel of profit you can towards the 180. And when that gets you there, where you're free and clear now, you can invest and grow this thing, pay yourself more. And I just think you've got yourself a really great business. So I would definitely do it this way. I'm curious, what are your other big seasons besides February for Valentine's Day? Is Christmas big? What do you got going on? I'm just curious what the seasonal dips and rises are.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So we have Valentine's Day and then Mother's Day. Mother's Day is actually more profitable than Valentine's. So Mother's Day, we can bring in about 60,000. Yeah. And then Valentine's brings in about 45 to 55,000. Unfortunately, we have a lot of deaths at the beginning of the year. Everyone holds on for the holidays. So we actually are major into funerals, which is all throughout the year, but normally the cheapest month income is about 20,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fantastic.

[George Camel]

That's amazing. It looks like you know this business inside and out, and maybe you kind of let them hang on with. With the business for the first year to just make sure there's no bumps. In the road as part of the deal.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So the owner actually, obviously over 10 years we've become really close and she has actually offered to stay with me when I purchased it to stay with me for about four or five months and be my employee just so she's my backup and if I have any questions and she can, you know, just kind of coach me.

[George Camel]

And she'll take a pay cut for that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, she'll make what I make and she's giving me a month free, so.

[George Camel]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like this deal.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I'd still have an attorney draw it up just to make sure it's not like a handshake agreement. But this sounds like a best case scenario for all parties. And I love that you're not doing it with debt anymore. Thank God you got denied. You're going to do it a much smarter way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fun fact, Katie. My very first job, 14 years of age working for Anderson's Greenhouse still there in Newport News, Virginia. And I was the. I was the laborer who got the poinsettia plants prepared and ready to go. Big Christmas business on poinsettia, so.

[Ken Coleman]

And I bet you were busy.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to get into that business. There's another big boom in December. Everybody likes those fresh red plants, especially George.

[Ken Coleman]

Sticking to a budget is hard enough. And inflation, George, it isn't helping us.

[George Camel]

Yep. In fact, 54 of Americans say it's a challenge to save on groceries without sacrificing quality. But Aldi makes it easy.

[Ken Coleman]

Aldi's private label. It is delicious food with incredible prices that you can stay within your budget.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And Aldi has the lowest prices of any national grocery store, which is really important. Impressive. And with all the money you saved, you're going to be making more progress toward your financial goals.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Which is what we want for you guys. So stop overpaying and start shopping at Aldi. Find a store near you today at Aldi US That's a L D. I usually.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's go to Martin in Lubbock, Texas. Martin, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey man, I appreciate answering my call. I enjoy listening to you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm calling, I'm calling about insurance. I'm a 65 year old rancher that is puts insurance about a step above the irs. And I'm to the point of trying to decide if I want to self insure not my vehicles so much, but our home and our in our outbuildings on our ranch and just kind of want your idea about it. I've been thinking about this for quite a while.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, my guess is you're thinking about it because you've got, you think the right amount of cash, right amount of money to be able to do this or is this just an idea only?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I can, I can replace it myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, run the numbers. Yeah, run the numbers out for us.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the, the house, I'm going to say is probably what they have it valued at 780,000. And then the. I've got two barns that about 150,000 a piece. I can build them cheaper than that. But that's what it would cost if I had them built because I built them years ago or we did a couple other buildings running, probably about $50,000. So whatever that comes out to. A million or so dollars maybe let's say a tornado came through, which has, it has happened before. But I have not made a claim on my home ever. Not a hail claim.

[George Camel]

What is your insurance cost total?

[Ken Coleman]

Very much. It's per year, it's. Oh, I'm grasping, about 96, 9,600 a year.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Versus if. Let's just play out the worst case scenario and you just ran the numbers. So if I'm understanding you right, you're telling me you got that cash set aside where you could replace all those buildings, home included. But why. So here's my. And this is an honest question. Why does the $9,600 bother you so much? Yeah. Because instead of using up all that.

[George Camel]

Cash, how much cash do you have?

[Ken Coleman]

Like what?

[George Camel]

How much do you have liquid?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fair.

[Ken Coleman]

Liquid. Liquid cash. If you're in.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a trick question.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I'm going to say let's say 2.5.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And then of course I've got investments that I can't just.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's liquid.

[Ken Coleman]

That I can't just get out.

[George Camel]

It would take some work to liquefy it, if you will.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just don't see what would possibly bother you so much given that that's your financial position. Why $9,600 a year?

[George Camel]

Yeah. You put that 2 million in a savings account, it's gonna make enough to pay for your insurance 10 times over. And so I'll tell you, Dave Ramsey has insurance on all his properties. He can very well self insure if he wants to to but for the bargain. It's worth the peace of mind knowing he doesn't have to burn his own cash for the, you know, 800 bucks a month that you're paying toward insurance. And the other piece is for liability coverage, you know, Exposure to lawsuits.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I've been told that a bunch. But I would insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

If I were you, Martin, here's the bottom line. If I were you, I would pay that insurance with a smile on my face. Given your position, you're worth several million.

[George Camel]

Dollars and you got to pay the tax man that's the smartest. On top of paying taxes already.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Put all your angst towards the irs, that I'm all for. But not the insurance man in this case, the insurance is a really smart financial move for you. Very smart. That's peace of mind. I would go to bed every night going, taxes. But then I'd go, ah, insurance. That's. That's. Am I right, George?

[George Camel]

Well, it sounds like you've been burning some brain calories just thinking about this.

[Ken Coleman]

This.

[George Camel]

It's living rent free in your head just thinking about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

He said the insurance man is just barely above the IRS guy. And I thought there was a deeper story here.

[Ken Coleman]

It wasn't. It wasn't. It's just that, you know, when. When you do cars and you do tractors and you do, you know, you do crop insurance and you. I get it. It seems like that's all I do is insure.

[Dave Ramsey]

I get it.

[George Camel]

And one thing you can do is see if you can, you know, raise your deductible, which could lower your premium. So you can still dig into your insurance and say, hey, where can I do better to. To lower what I'm paying, since I can take on more risk. So I would work with a good insurance broker. Do you have one that you trust?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I do. I do. I've. I've known him for years, and so I can't. I can't really. I don't know if I put him with the irs, but there we go.

[George Camel]

I would talk to him.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what this really is, Martin, I think I.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't make me feel good. Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, you know, Martin, I think. I think I figured out what's going on with you. You just. You're so tight, you squeak when you walk block. And you.

[George Camel]

You pretty well, the idea of you paying anyone.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the idea of paying insurance is not even about the insurance. You just got stuck at pain.

[Ken Coleman]

And it is. It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so the force, the forced payment is what gives you hives.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah, it. It's what just aggravates me, you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

I get it, brother, but man, check back.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm like, yeah, I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the flip side of that is, is that it allows you to keep that cash and that two can Grow and grow and grow. And so you're just gonna have to play some type of mental game here to get over it. And I thought that was what was going on with you. And I get it. I get it.

[George Camel]

I'd shed a tear and then wipe it with a hundred dollar bill and move on with my day.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, no, that's a flex.

[George Camel]

That's how you do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like that.

[George Camel]

I want to be Martin when I grow up, though. I mean, this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who doesn't want out? This guy's got it.

[George Camel]

I want to be a race.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's got dirt. He's got buildings on the dirt. He's got millions in the bank. And he's calling us, griping about insurance. That's how Martin.

[George Camel]

That's how a true American is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Life is good, friend.

[George Camel]

He would have been pouring tea into the harbor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[George Camel]

He was a little older.

[Dave Ramsey]

Guarantee you he'd have been throwing it over the ship. Let's go to Isabella in your neck of the woods, George. The Boston area. Hey, Isabella, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

So I was kind of a weird one, or maybe it's not, but I trying to figure out if my husband and I should file bankruptcy.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's weird. What's going on?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What's causing you to even go to this like napalm solution?

[Ken Coleman]

So we're both 21. We got married in April, so. Just married.

[George Camel]

But is this how you're celebrated with bankruptcy?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's super fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

What did you two do? Did you do this together or did you bring this mess into the marriage?

[Ken Coleman]

So technically, it was right before we got married. Long story short, my husband's father was trying to sell their childhood home and we are kind of in a weird home situation right now. We're living with my parents and an in law and it's not super ideal. Yeah. And he ended up my husband taking an $80,000 loan out, a home equity loan on that property for his name to be on the deed and us for have us to have half of the property basically live upstairs. His father would move downstairs. His father had like $30,000 in credit card debt and needed us to pay that off, which looking back now, was not a great idea.

[George Camel]

I'm looking for any good idea so far in this relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

This sounds like a reality TV show. I live with my parents and an in law and everybody's got debt and we split the house up. Half ownership. It's just a reality.

[George Camel]

Even sell the house because he only owns half.

[Ken Coleman]

So we tried to. So we had to Move out because it got really hostile. Not to go too into it, but yeah, his dad has a history of domestic violence and a whole thing which I didn't know about until after this was done.

[George Camel]

That would have been good information.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, boy.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So now you are paying a payment on a place you don't even live while paying another payment to rent somewhere else.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, so fortunately we only pay like 400 because we're technically living with my parents. So they've been nice and helping us with all this, but we're pretty much at a crossroads of his father refuses to sell the home unless my husband takes his name off the deed and basically gives him all the rights, which who knows what he's going to do and if he actually sells it because we're pretty sure he's renting it out and we're kind of in a really weird spot.

[George Camel]

Yeah, well, bankruptcy is not going to solve this. This is a relational issue, potentially attorney issue, to get out of this mess. What's your total debt between the two of you?

[Ken Coleman]

It's 80,000 for the home equity and then a about 6,000 in credit card debt.

[George Camel]

And what's the total income between the two of you?

[Ken Coleman]

I can't work. I. I had to leave my job last year. I have health issues and so it's just my husband working. Unfortunately, the hard part with all of this.

[George Camel]

Oh, my goodness. Well, we're going to need to get the income up, the expenses down, and clean up this mess. And hopefully we can get out of this home equity loan situation if the house can be sold.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not the option here.

[George Camel]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, it's time for my personal favorite segment on the Ramsay show, Strong words. It's when George talks nerdy. I love when you talk nerdy, George. So without any further ado. Talk nerdy to me.

[George Camel]

Guess what today's is about.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know. Should I guess?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It involves either real estate, the irs. Oh, it's about taxes, withholding.

[George Camel]

How'd you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, if it's about taxes.

[George Camel]

We gotta talk about. How do you know when it's time to change your tax withholdings?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay.

[George Camel]

This is the age old.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm gonna try to be polite because you know I hate taxes.

[George Camel]

Well, this is gonna really fill your cup.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I thought you were gonna say burn my biscuits. That too. Okay, here we go. Here's the stamp. I steam my broccoli.

[George Camel]

As of April 25th 5th. Over 90 million people got a refund from the IRS this year. And you would think, wow, What a nice thing. Your refund or tax bill reveals how accurate your tax withholdings or quarterly payments were throughout the year. So the goal, a lot of people don't know this, is not to get a refund, not to owe a bunch of money, but to break even. Got that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, got it.

[George Camel]

Because a big tax refund means you're withholding too much. The government held onto your money at 0% interest and then gave it back to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Come tax refund time. So most people, they submit their W4 form, they set it, they forget it. But then life changes. And so should your withholdings. And the amount taken out depends on two things. What you make and what's on that W4 form. So how does this work, tax withholding? Well, everyone who works pays income tax. In certain states, you might also pay a separate income tax. So when you start a new job, you have a major life change. Like, you get married, you got to fill out a W4 form, and that tells your employer how much to take out of your paycheck for taxes. So how do you determine this withholding amount? There's two ways. Number. Number one, you can divide up last year's taxes. So look up what you owed last year, divided by 12. That's how much more needs to be withheld each month. And then you can do a mock tax return. I know that's what you like to do on the weekends, Ken, just to stay sharp.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you know, my morning coffee on a Saturday morning around, you know, mid March, I like to start tinkering with that.

[George Camel]

Yeah, like you used to do a mock trial. Remember those back in school?

[Dave Ramsey]

I. That. You.

[Ken Coleman]

You.

[Dave Ramsey]

This will be no surprise to you. That was one of my favorite things, high school.

[George Camel]

You would have been a great trial lawyer.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's been said before.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, instead of the trial, try a tax return. You can do this with any, you know, online tax software. It's free. It'll tell you exactly what you owe. You divide that amount by 26 if you get paid every two weeks, or 24 if you get paid twice a month. So, like, we get paid twice a month here at Ramsey. So that's what we would do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, let me ask a question. When you do that, can you get mock arrested if you mess it up?

[Ken Coleman]

Up.

[George Camel]

That's a good question. I don't. I think you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

I get a little nervous about doing my own tax return.

[George Camel]

It's like maritime law.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but I'm saying if you fill it out wrong, do you get Some type of warning that says no.

[George Camel]

You can fudge the numbers with a fake tax because you're not actually submitting anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, I thought it was a dumb question.

[George Camel]

I think, I don't think the government's watching at that point. Okay, so here's how to update your withholding. You should update your W4 when something major happens that affects your finances and your tax bill. So let's say you buy a home, you get married, you have a baby. That could change things. And so if you Change that on W4, you're withhold will stay accurate. That's what you want. And then look at your tax refund or your tax bill. No major life changes last year, but you still got a big refund. It is time to adjust and then check and change that W form. So it's that simple. And it's really easy to do. You can, if you, you know, have an employer, just email hr, walk up to them and say, hey, I got to change my W4. And they will help you out with that. And if you've got questions, you can contact a Ramsey trusted tax pro, ramseysolutions.com we are here for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that painless is George talking Nerdy.

[George Camel]

They don't teach you this stuff in school?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they don't.

[George Camel]

They should. Our high school curriculum. I actually teach on the W4 form.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And I say, what's a W4 form for? Oh, the kids love it. They eat it up.

[Dave Ramsey]

They laugh at that.

[George Camel]

They eat up a little alliteration.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, there's no wonder that you're so popular to the next generation.

[George Camel]

Is that true?

[Dave Ramsey]

I've seen it with my own eyes. When we have student groups come here to Ramsey Solutions and you walk out. I feel like the Beatles are here.

[George Camel]

It is scary because they're all 6 foot 7. I don't know what they're feeding kids these days, but they're all towering over me like with their Snapchats out, trying to take selfies. And I get very scared.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you think it is that makes you appeal to these youngsters?

[George Camel]

I think it's that I'm not intimidating. Whereas you, you've got a real like Clint Eastwood vibe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not true.

[George Camel]

You know what I mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

Not true. But I get what you're saying about you.

[George Camel]

I'm the least intimidating man you could meet.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think it's something. I think you're very.

[George Camel]

And I don't take myself seriously. I'm self deprecating. That's what kids want. They want someone with a guard down who's quick to make fun of themselves.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. All right, let's go to Vanessa in Naples, Florida. Vanessa, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, John and George. Thank you guys so much for honoring me with your time. I'm currently in the process where I'm listing my home and we're looking to have about 620,000 in equity. My mom's my realtor. She's kind of suggesting us to purchase a home more expensive cash to avoid capital gains tax. But I'm kind of wanting to liquefy as much money as I can and kind of be frugal with the home purchase and try to have as much in our savings.

[George Camel]

Well, I'm confused. Explain to me how it's better to buy a more expensive home, tax wise.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. She was saying because of the amount of equity and profit we're making on the home. She was explaining that if we purchase a home too inexpensive, we're going to have to pay capital gains on the difference.

[George Camel]

I don't understand that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't either.

[George Camel]

So how much did you purchase the house for?

[Ken Coleman]

So I purchased the home back in 2020 for 325. We only owe about 275 right now.

[George Camel]

Okay, so the home was purchased for 325. What are you going to sell it for?

[Ken Coleman]

895.

[George Camel]

895. And you guys are married, filing jointly.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm currently filing jointly with my husband, but I purchased a home prior to marriage.

[George Camel]

Okay, but if you're married, filing jointly, you should have $500,000 worth of tax free growth, correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Correct. That's. That was my understanding.

[George Camel]

So you'll only owe capital gains on the 70,000 above that.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And so it should be long term capital gains.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's why we're confused as to why she would recommend that. And, and, and I'm going to tell you point blank, you should go with your gut and what you want to do.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I don't understand what the new house has to do with your capital gains taxes on this sale.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, right.

[George Camel]

I don't think it has anything to do with it.

[Ken Coleman]

Confused.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's.

[Ken Coleman]

Even if I'm not an expert on this end, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, first of all, we're not tax experts either, but I don't. I think she's got that confused. But here's the point. I still think we're focusing on the wrong thing. Whether mom's right or me and George are right on the capital gains things is not the issue. It's not what we should be discussing. What we should be discussing is. Is that she's recommending you buy a more expensive house. Oh, by the way, she's going to make more the more that the house costs.

[George Camel]

What do you. What's commission on it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry, mom.

[George Camel]

Is she giving you a deal?

[Ken Coleman]

Right, so. No. She said if we do a discount and may not attract the buyer's agent, so she's charging the full.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So again, let me come back to the core thing. You want to have more cash as you move into the next house for your financial goals. You want to be more frugal on this next purchase. And I agree with you because first of all, it makes total sense. Sense. Second, it's what you want to do. Don't do what mom is telling you to do. You're a big girl.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Yeah. We currently have a 10 month old, so my long term goal is to kind of take a step back from work because my husband's a firefighter and we're living alone out here, so he's starting to get a little burnt out. So I'm hoping to, you know, kind of be able to take a step back, take care of the kids and.

[George Camel]

Great.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what are you going to tell?

[Ken Coleman]

Money in our emergency fund. Great list. And I'll purchase the home that my husband and I decide. And my husband's on board. He agrees with getting the best home for the least amount of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, your mom is wrong on multiple accounts, so there's our answer. Okay, she's wrong.

[Ken Coleman]

Appreciate you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. Thanks for calling. But listen, you're right, she's wrong. Bless her heart. Be respectful, tell her how it's going to be. And you do what you want to.

[George Camel]

Do on this because one, one final question, Vanessa. What's your household income?

[Ken Coleman]

So I currently make 90 and my husband makes 65, so we're a little under 150.

[George Camel]

Okay. So you would be at a 15% long term capital gains rate, which means 15% of that extra 70, you're looking at, like a $10,000 tax. And that doesn't change regardless of what happens next. Once you sell this home, that's what you owe.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's nothing to do with the next purchase.

[George Camel]

So I'm confused. Maybe I'm too dumb to understand, but I don't know what your next house purchase has to do with this and how buying a more expensive one is going to offset the taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

But I would talk to a tax pro and say, thanks, mom. I'm going to handle this one. I make these decisions.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And congratulations on where you guys are and the decisions you're making for your family.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

As well as your finances.

[George Camel]

Amazing equity in this home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, Vanessa. Sorry, mom. Don't give advice to somebody else.

[George Camel]

Hey, guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's insurance resource hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly better. Best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft, protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions.com insurance ramseysolutions.com insurance this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is the the Ramsey show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession and their relationships alongside the incomparable George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. Triple 882-55-5225 is the number. Triple 882-55-2225 is how you can jump in. And Lindsay's here in Columbia, South Carolina. Lindsay, hello.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, how are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we're having a lot of fun. How can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

That's good. Well, mine's kind of different. I'm calling more because of relationship advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's my favorite thing, my favorite part. I'm not kidding you. I love this. What's going on?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I've been going back and forth and I just figured I'd come ask the experts. I've been with my long term boyfriend for six months, years. But we've been long distance. We were together in college and now he's in another state and about seven hours away. And I am a graduate student. I'm also working full time as a speech language pathologist and he also graduated a year after me. But he is unemployed for the last six months. He's 24, will be 25 soon and I'm 25 currently. And he does not have a driver's license. He doesn't have a car. Um, he has been unemployed. He just does not know what he wants to do with his.

[Dave Ramsey]

He living with his parents.

[Ken Coleman]

He was living with siblings and now he's living with his grandparents.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lovely. And why does he not have a driver's license?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think it's because, well, from what I have been told, it's been access to a car in order to, I guess do the test and get what he needs and he doesn't have the best.

[George Camel]

It sounds like you don't believe that.

[Ken Coleman]

It's just because I feel like if you really want something, you'll make it happen. I just, I'm not.

[George Camel]

But do you think he's lying to you?

[Ken Coleman]

I don't think he's lying. I know his family dynamic and this children had to kind of like raise themselves and there has not been any like role models like you know, adult wise. So kind of having to maneuver life with without a role model. He's a first generation and you know, I'm not trying to make excuses, but this is just the face of the matter and it's just we're not in the same face of life. So I'm just kind of like looking forward. I graduate next year and I'm. I've got a $20,000 raise that's going to come soon and he's got debt and I don't have any.

[George Camel]

Lindsay, I'm going to cut to the chase. You don't respect this guy. Why are you with him?

[Ken Coleman]

Because, I mean, I love who he is. I mean, who is he? Like, he's my best friend and he, he actually became in his relationship with God in the last year or two and so he's just shown me a lot of improvement as a person, but an aspect of just like the driving ambition. I'm just not seeing what I would like to see and it just makes me pessimistic.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's your question for us? You said you called the experts. What's your question?

[Ken Coleman]

Question as far as what you've seen from people who are much older than me. I know how, you know, money, financial, things like this can break relationships. I have, my parents have been divorced and I just don't want to follow the same footsteps. I want to look back and be like, you know, I made the right decision and like, you know, love can't pay the bills. Love isn't, isn't necessarily the only foundation I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I get it. Listen, I totally get you what I. Here's what I'm trying to do. I want you to identify what it is that you're asking us. And I think I know what is your question for us. I think you're. Here's what I think. Let me try to help you. I think you think that you should break up with this guy, but you're not sure and you wanted to get our opinion right?

[Ken Coleman]

Like, I just didn't know if it's too soon considering like too soon to do what age to break up? Because I feel like I'm being impatient.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I, I actually am old enough to be your dad. So can I be, can I be your show dad, please?

[Ken Coleman]

Because I don't have one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, bless your heart.

[Ken Coleman]

That's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm going to be your dad on this. If you were my daughter, I would say trust your instincts. It's okay for you to love him. You have loved him. You can still love him and not be with him. And I don't think he is is in a place in his life where he can be the level of boyfriend that you deserve at this stage in your life. You're not a 16 year old girl anymore.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think you have to love him enough to let him go for now. And in letting him go, we're going to find out if he has the grit to continue to grow from his faith, conversion and what's going on inside of him spiritually. Yay for that. But he's still got to step out into the real world and overcome the junk that he dealt with growing up. Seems like his siblings have on some level. And so you need to be his friend right now, not his girlfriend. That's my dad advice. And move forward as the though he is somebody that you have loved, you love on some level, but you are not ready to choose to love him as a fiance or a husband because he's not in a place to be that for you.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct. I agree.

[George Camel]

George, agree or disagree 100%. And I think you're only going to get increasingly resentful if you hang on to this relationship knowing within your gut that it's not going to to work. Yeah, it's not going to work. If you feel like a babysitter in this relationship, you're stuck in this dynamic. You have very different values and goals. He won't take responsibility. You're not seeing any real effort or improvement. Then staying means you're not being true to your own values, goals and well being. You're causing yourself harm and him harm.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[George Camel]

So I think you, we're not here to tell you what you need to do. You need to decide that for yourself. But by the way you're talking, it tells me that you're just looking for permission because you're fed up. And that's an okay thing to be fed up with someone's behavior.

[Dave Ramsey]

By the way, while I'm thinking about it, Lindsay and George and again playing the dad role here, I'd go, if he loves you so much, why isn't he living in the same area as you, finding a job and being around you.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Homeboy is. Is now. You don't have to answer it. I'm just telling you. I'm not criticizing him, but I'm saying that tells me. And I actually. This may sound odd to you, Lindsay, but I'm actually giving him some grace. I don't think he's capable of doing that. Because if he was, he would have.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so he's not where you are, trying to woo you and be the best boyfriend he can be. He's off trying to lick his wounds. And that's what I think he needs to do. He needs to heal, and he needs to come back out of the cave. And I just think for right now, it's time to let him go. Which I already explained in detail.

[Ken Coleman]

So, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so sorry.

[Ken Coleman]

The honest.

[George Camel]

It doesn't make it easier.

[Ken Coleman]

I really, I. I appreciate it. I really, truly do. Thank you, guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, Lindsay, you're worth a man who can be what you need him to be.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think that's what needs to be your bumper sticker today. You hear me?

[Ken Coleman]

That's a good one. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because, sweetheart, I know that that's hard maybe sometimes for you to believe because your own father's not in the picture. And that brain breaks my heart as well.

[George Camel]

You don't have a good picture of what this is supposed to look like.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you're crushing it, kiddo. You're crushing it.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are on the path.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you, guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you bet. We're rooting for you, Lindsay. Favorite caller of the day, right there. Lindsay's my fave. I don't mind saying. I don't care who knows.

[George Camel]

Dang. I'm right next to you, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

I said call her, okay? Not co host.

[George Camel]

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to.

[Ken Coleman]

Return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. Best. If you're ready to learn how to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Make your money work for you, check.

[Ken Coleman]

Out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor to get connected.

[George Camel]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] Smartvestor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Chase is up next in Minneapolis. Chase, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, Ken. George, thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[George Camel]

So my wife and I, we've been.

[Ken Coleman]

On the Ramsey program for about eight years. We're getting ready to be on baby step seven again at here in about 18 months. But we recently moved to Minnesota and we've been at a new church for about six months. We love the church, great community. But they're currently looking at taking out a $2 million loan to do some remodels on the church. And so we're not sure if it's the right church for us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just because of that?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Kind of the way they've navigated it, they, you know, they made a. Making a campaign initially to raise some of the funds and, and they weren't, you know, the remodel is going to cost more than they expected. So they're looking to do a loan, you know, right now, $2 million. They're debt free otherwise before this. And so we're just, we're not big proponents of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You know, this is tricky because you get to decide where you go to church and why you go to church there. So I'm not sure what you want us to weigh in on because there are a lot of churches in America that use debt like a lot of people use debt for home mortgages. So, you know, we at Ramsey Solutions don't think that mortgages are evil. I you wanting to leave the church over this is your prerogative. If you're asking me would I leave a church if they decided to get to take a loan out to do some remodeling, I probably wouldn't leave over that singular issue. If they were dishonest and how they communicated to the church body about it and there was something squirrely in how they communicated it and the church body and the church leadership weren't in, in, in, you know, congruence and there was something squirly like that, then I can see that that's the best I can do, George, is, is try to weigh in that way.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I understand your frustration because they're debt free currently and you know that, hey, my tithe money partially is going to go toward paying off this debt that we didn't really need to take on. Is that part of what's going on here?

[Ken Coleman]

That is they are going to be putting it to a member vote, you know, and so it's going to be a, you know, majority rules on the vote. Obviously, we know that majority Americans don't view debt the same way, you know, Ramsey followers do. But so they're going to be putting it to a vote. I guess the biggest question is how do I navigate, you know, my conversations with other, you know, as far as, you know, I personally think there's a poor decision, you know, and I think that that's what, you know, what I've really felt led to share with others.

[George Camel]

Have you talked to the leadership about this? Have you voiced your concerns? I have. Privately I have, yes. And what, what have they said?

[Ken Coleman]

Some of the, some of the governing board, you know, is against the vet as well. That's why they're putting it to the members. But, but also, you know, they believe that this remodel is essential to get, you know, more people in the door, essentially.

[George Camel]

And what if you offered a solution where you said, hey, what if we did this at the speed of cash and we did a campaign to raise the funds instead of take on the debt and then work on paying it off?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, and I think that would be, you know, that'd be the ideal. That's my opinion on it. But they are putting it to a vote here in a of state weeks and the vote is, do we take the $2 million loan or not? And then obviously, if not, they'll explore other options where I'd love to have that conversation there.

[George Camel]

I think you push on it actually. Let's see how this all plays out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me say this. I don't think it's your job to be the campaign manager against it. Again, it's your prerogative. But I believe that we gotta be very careful in the church. I think there's a higher standard here to not get gossip, to not turn into some type of agency.

[George Camel]

I wouldn't be picketing outside.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So when you asked the question a few minutes earlier that I want to address, you said, what do I do? When we, when people discuss it and when people discuss it and you're brought into the conversation and say which way you're going to vote, you can go. As for me, in my house, we're anti debt and we think we would rather have the church save this money up over time and we do the renovation when we can pay cash. That's our position on it. That's because where we are personally, this is what the Bible says about debt. You can say everything you want to, but you got to stop short of gossip. You got to stop, stop short of running the leadership down because if it bothers you that much and you can't be a healthy member of that church, then you should walk. If it bothers you that much, then yes, you should leave. And again, that's your prerogative. I don't criticize that. But should that be the very single issue for me? No, it wouldn't be. But I honor yours. If that's a thing for you, then be that way. But you could certainly you need to voice your opinion and, and vote. But you know, after that, I'm just telling you, if you think the only.

[George Camel]

Church, you're going to go with it or leave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But you going to a, a debt free church may be more difficult than you think it is.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Camel]

I don't want you church hopping for the next 20 years because you disagree with a financial decision they made at one point. And so it, it's going to be exhausting. But I think the question to ask yourself is can I still worship here, serve here, trust the leadership here, even if I disagree, disagree, and at some point if there's a pattern of disagreement that bothers you spiritually, I think that's your sign to leave.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, I want to. Thanks for the call, Chase. I want to transition to. We took a call a little bit earlier, a young lady who in a long distance relationship, the longtime boyfriend. She's young like 24, 25. But they started dating when they were 16ish. He's now living seven hours away, living with siblings George and not working, doesn't have a driver's license. And she cited a lack of ambition. But when you pressed her she said I love him and you said why are you still with him? Because you could tell she was almost looking for permission to break up. And she responded to you I love who he is and he's apparently growing spiritually but certainly stuck financially, professionally, in every way. And so you said that reminded you of a recent social media reel and the TV team that up.

[George Camel]

So take it away. Clip of Professor Scott Galloway interviewed by Lewis House.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Talking about this long and I think this hits the heart of what's going on in a lot of frustrating relationships in America today. So let's play the clip.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's check it out.

[George Camel]

My young metaphorically, women are getting taller every day.

[Ken Coleman]

They're killing it financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

Education, intelligence, opportunities, resources.

[George Camel]

Women are killing it and it's amazing.

[Ken Coleman]

We shouldn't do anything that gets in the way of that. The question is how do we lift up men?

[George Camel]

Who wants more economically and emotionally viable men, women?

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are men not doing as well in today's society and why are versus women continuing to thrive? Which is a great thing. But why aren't Men thriving equally or.

[George Camel]

At the same pace.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm parroting Richard Reeves.

[George Camel]

Great work of boys to men. There's a lot of reasons biologically, men mature later. Their prefrontal cortex is literally 18 to.

[Dave Ramsey]

24 months behind a girl's.

[Ken Coleman]

So a senior, two seniors applying to college, a boy and a girl. 17 year old, boy and girl.

[George Camel]

Essentially the girl is competing against a 15 year old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my gosh.

[George Camel]

So they think about, think about school.

[Ken Coleman]

What are the behaviors we promote in school? Be organized, be a pleaser, sit still.

[George Camel]

Basically education is set up for girls.

[Dave Ramsey]

I couldn't do it.

[George Camel]

And there's a lot of shame when.

[Ken Coleman]

Boys, you know, just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man, it's so challenging.

[Ken Coleman]

My 13 year old, the idea of my 13 year old sitting in.

[George Camel]

Okay, still, there was a part before that that I think we missed. But he talks about what women are looking for in a man, what's attractive. And he talks about kindness, intelligence. And the most important one was a man's ability to see signal future provision. And that's, I think at the heart of our friend Lindsay's call is she was seeing, she was reading the tea leaves going, this guy's not going to be able to protect me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You know, from a primal level of just physically but financially, can he protect me and provide or.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I know some, some females in our audience would go, I don't like the way that sounds. So let me. And I'm not disagreeing with you. Some women would see it that way. Other women would say, I don't see any possibility of an effective partner.

[George Camel]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, to actually lack of information. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Bleeds into the professional, the financial.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I, I think that's, I think it's absolutely true. And by the way, that doesn't make a woman needy or weak. That would be to me very normal.

[George Camel]

If this was a business partnership. I want to know that you're going to be able to. Well, to handle some.

[Dave Ramsey]

You and I are both girl dads and we both want our daughters to seek men that can be providing, protecting, adding in partnering so that it is a true partnership and not one just completely relying on the other.

[George Camel]

Yeah. No one's signing up to be the babysitter and parent for the rest of their life. They want a true partner. And so you got to signal those things through your ambition, through your personal and professional.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought that was very interesting what he said. I think that's true. I'm not sure my prefrontal cortex is finished.

[George Camel]

We'll get there. I'll work on it. During the break, I'm hoping.

[Ken Coleman]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

The Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by why Refi defaulted? Private student loans can feel like a wall that you're never going to able to rather be able to get over. But why Refi can help you climb it? They'll work with you to explore a payment plan tailored to your situation. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y, R E F y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[George Camel]

Let's get to the question. It comes from Alex in California. California. I'm 16 years old and I'm very interested in personal finance. As an avid watcher of your show and a researcher of personal finance advice, I realize how important it is to have a good financial future, which includes planning for retirement. Currently, I'm investing $2,500 a month into index funds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Camel]

However, I keep coming across articles and content from Ramsey advocating for actively managed mutual funds instead. I don't understand the benefit of investing in something with much higher fees. Can you please explain what I'm missing or what I am wrong on?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Camel]

I'm still confused. 16 years old and they're investing 2,500 bucks a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, Alex.

[George Camel]

I assume this is real. I don't know if the team is trolling me, but that's a pretty insane 16 year old who's crushing it. I don't know if they're even in school at this point. They probably are running a business full time.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's funny to me that you're that surprised by this. I absolutely am buying this. I think that a 16 year old who may have a great side business or something, they're really crushing it. And they got no expenses. And he's essentially probably investing almost everything you bring. Yeah, this kid sounds like a young George Camel.

[George Camel]

I wish, I wish. I mean, I was a knucklehead up until yesterday, so I'm just really impressed with this guy. But okay, let's talk about what, what he's after here. So we're talking about index funds, funds versus mutual funds, which both are giant baskets of stocks, like 90 to 200 stocks in one fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's hung up on the fees.

[George Camel]

It sounds hung up on the fees, which I understand. If you just look at it on paper, you're going, well, index funds are designed to be passive and they just match what the market is doing. An actively managed mutual fund, on the other hand, there is a team of professionals managing the fund, choosing which funds go in which should come out of it. Which means they can be a little more expensive because there's fees involved. These people need to make a living. And so face value index funds are cheaper most of the time. But fees are not everything everything. Performance matters more. So you're not just going to choose a car because of fuel economy alone. You got to look at all the other factors. And so we do recommend actively managed mutual funds, especially in retirement accounts. But we're not anti index funds by any stretch. I'll use those outside of retirement all day. Dave Ramsey will do the same. But within a retirement account you don't have to deal with turnover and therefore it's not as expensive as you might imagine. And the goal here with the actively managed mutual fund is to beat the market. So if the index is here, just, you know, just call it a flat line foundation. The goal of the the mutual fund is to slightly beat it by a few percentage points. And so that's what you want to look for is a mutual fund with a long term track record, a great team of pros that have been doing this over a period of time. And I just looked up the stats just to see what are the actual stats on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, is this a little extra talk nerdy?

[George Camel]

This is a little bonus for you. Over the past decade, an annual average 27% of active activ managed funds benchmark to the S&P 500 beat it. So over one in four mutual funds beat it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very nice.

[George Camel]

You can flip, base, pull, you could flip it, right? And go, well, 73% of index funds beat the mutual funds, right? Sure. And the goal here is not to have them fight and be competitive. It's to go, okay, well if 1 and 4 beat it, let's try to find that 1 and 4 because that 1 to 2% over a long period of time really adds up. So that's the purpose behind it. And if you get 1 to 2% or 3% percent more, it will more than justify the fees. So it's a very nerdy discussion to have. The key here is savings rate. Are you putting money away into some type of fund over a consistent long period of time? And so for arguing over will you have 2.1 or 2.2 million? I'm happy to have that argument. The truth is America is retiring broke because they're not investing at all or falling for investment traps. So I'm a fan of index funds, I'm a fan of mutual funds. Funds both have validity and have their place. And for a 16 year old you know, it sounds like he, he's going to be a multi, multi millionaire, maybe with his own show one day.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's on his way. By the way, it makes me think. I want to recommend to our audience. You're hearing George talk about this, answer this question. You're going, man, I wish I just had a better grasp of investing. And we recently created the Ramsey Investing Hub. This is fabulous. Has a ton of tools and information that will help you understand invest, investing, and then actually be able to Invest. It'[e-mail] investing ramseysolutions.com investing or of course, it's in the show notes. And this is the Ramsey Investing Hub team's done a great job on this, by the way of kind of taking all of the basic principles that we teach and putting them right there so you can kind of peruse through. And it's. It's fabulous.

[George Camel]

Investment calculators, investment guides, all kinds of tools.

[Dave Ramsey]

What? Tell you what, I love that investment calculator.

[George Camel]

Love a hub.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's really good, George. Love the Ramsey Investing Hub.

[George Camel]

Doesn't get enough love.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amy is in Los Angeles, California. Amy, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi. Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

I just started listening to you guys this year, and I have learned so much. My question is, are we doing the right thing by having all of our money in the same brokerage? Brokerage firm? So my husband, we've got some retirement in there, and then we have some regular money. I've always been taught, don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

It's the right thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who told you that?

[Ken Coleman]

You know what? Just growing up, I can tell you. Exactly, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I think it's great advice and we agree with that, especially when it comes to investing, George.

[George Camel]

Yeah, well, you're talking about a brokerage firm. You're not talking about what is the asset that's in these accounts. What are you investing in as far.

[Ken Coleman]

As, like the mutual funds and all of that? The breakdown of that.

[George Camel]

Yeah. When we say you don't want all your eggs in one basket, that doesn't mean it can't be with a single firm. We're just saying don't invest in a single stock.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you mean fund or did you mean firm?

[Ken Coleman]

It's a firm. It's a firm. It's a. It's a very large brokerage firm.

[Dave Ramsey]

But they've got you invested. Are you diversified within them?

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly. Yes, we are.

[George Camel]

Okay, then you're fine.

[Ken Coleman]

You're fine. Fine.

[George Camel]

And yeah, let's say you have all your money with Vanguard or whoever. It's. That's not the issue. It's. The issue is when you have all of your money in Tesla and Elon got in a fight with Trump and now Tesla Stock is down 16% and that's your entire nest egg.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's from the head.

[George Camel]

That's what we're avoiding here.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So when you say you're investing in a fund, is it mostly equities versus bonds?

[Ken Coleman]

You know what, I'm not so sure. Equities. Explain stocks.

[George Camel]

So that would be stocks versus bonds.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, oh, oh, oh. Okay. So we have mutual funds and then we have some of it in tax free bonds because we had to pay a lot of tax last year and we did have it in a credit union. And then my husband, after we pay all the taxes, he put it into tax free bonds and then a good part of it is in a 60, 40 mutual funds bonds. So there's three parts to this whole equation. In the brokerage firm.

[George Camel]

How old are you two?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm 59 and he's 64. He is. Right. Retired.

[George Camel]

Okay. So depending on who you talk to and what financial advisor you're working with, you know, they tend to say, hey, over time you want to switch to more conservative investments, meaning moving your money out of stocks and equities and into bonds. And Dave Ramsey himself disagrees with this asset allocation theory for a simple reason. The what got you here is what's going to keep you there. And so if you move all your money to bonds while the markets gets 23% returns, you're going to get a 6% return and be saying, wow, where I didn't get a return on my money. Yeah, because you basically left the market. And so we, we advocate for being more heavily in equities because over time we've seen that that's going to be your best bet to keep your wealth and grow it instead of just maintain it. Do you work with a financial advisor now?

[Ken Coleman]

We do. He does. We. I'm, I'm new. I, I come from a family of spenders and my husband's always been smarter with money than I have. So I mean, I'm lucky that we are where because of him. It's just that now I'm learning more and getting more involved and so I'm just, I'm questioning him. So we kind of go back and forth.

[George Camel]

I love that all of the questions.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And if they're unwilling to answer or they get defensive, they're not. They don't have the heart of a teacher. It might be time to find a new financial advisor. But I love that you're digging in and learning this stuff. It's never too late. But I want you to understand what you're investing in and why. That's the key. So you may have a little homework to do. What is your net worth? What? Or what's the total nest egg?

[Ken Coleman]

For both of us, it's 2.2 million. And that's including everything. But that's not 1.6 is in the brokerage firm. And then, you know, based on our house and we have in the bank and everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you know, you've done well.

[Ken Coleman]

Keep it up.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've done well.

[Ken Coleman]

Want to keep it up?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Can I ask one more quick question, you guys?

[George Camel]

We got 10.

[Dave Ramsey]

We got 10 seconds.

[Ken Coleman]

Just kidding. Okay. And investing. Would it help me to do your class on investing, the one that you just added?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, because it's free and it'll really help you out. It's awesome. You love the free stuff, don't you, Amy? The answer is yes. We all do. Check it out.

[Ken Coleman]

Foreign. Okay, you guys remember the four walls of a budget. Food, utilities, shelter, and transportation. Right now, I want to focus on food because inflation is driving up the cost of groceries and we're all feeling it. But Aldi shoppers can save up to 36% on an average shopping trip, which adds up to be about $4,000,000 a year for a family of four. $4,000. Aldi has what you need at prices that won't bust your budget. From bread and milk to organic produce, fresh meat, and affordable must haves. So stop paying more and start shopping smarter at Aldi, where you'll save with the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you today at Aldi US that's a L D. I dot us us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 3. 3217. Oh, sovereign Lord, you've made the heavens and the earth by your great power, an outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you. Our quote of the day from Warren Buffett. It's not necessary to do extraordinary things to get extraordinary results. What do you think about old Warren starting to. Starting to downshift? Did you see that new CD?

[George Camel]

I mean, the dude's like in his 90s now.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's the oracle.

[George Camel]

So I feel like it's time. And his.

[Dave Ramsey]

His.

[George Camel]

One of his best buddies passed away, sadly. I know old Charlie Munger.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know that's right, Charles.

[George Camel]

They Were like, you know, walls. What's the one from Sesame Street? Waldorf and Statler. Is that it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sesame Street. You mean Bert and Ernie?

[George Camel]

That. Nope. The old guys in the balcony.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's on Sesame Street. That's the Muppets.

[George Camel]

Mix it up.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm here. I'm trying to follow you.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You said Sesame street, and I thought, well, the most famous Sesame street buddies were Bert and Ernie. But you're talking about the two old dudes.

[George Camel]

Waldorf. From the Muppets. To me, that is Warren Buffett and Charlie. Peanut butter, butter and jelly.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know. You know you have a very popular segment on your YouTube channel, millionaires in Cars.

[George Camel]

That's right. Getting coffee.

[Dave Ramsey]

Getting coffee. And you should get Warren Buffett.

[George Camel]

Could we get him?

[Dave Ramsey]

I think if you really tried.

[George Camel]

If somebody knows Warren. Somebody out there, Nebraska, you have to go to him. We go to Omaha.

[Dave Ramsey]

You go to Omaha. But what's he doing in Omaha? Omaha. I don't know if he's retiring. He's got time.

[George Camel]

Drinking Coca Cola.

[Dave Ramsey]

Being an old man, you sticking him in a. In a rental car would be really funny.

[George Camel]

I would very much enjoy that. All right. That's my new bucket list goal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Is to do that segment with Warren.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you ever get any pushback from basically ripping off Seinfeld with the.

[George Camel]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

People have said comedians.

[George Camel]

They're coming after you. I'm like, seinfeld did that Netflix show years ago. It has long since been off the air. I don't think Netflix is dealing with. With my little YouTube channel.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fair.

[George Camel]

Do they have the rights to anything filmed in a car? What's carpool? Karaoke coming after us next.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, kids, you know, listen, relax. You got your dander up. All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're starting to get really hot. It's just funny.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I'm a big Seinfeld fan. That's where it came from. I thought we could. We should do a financial segment in a car.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it.

[George Camel]

With millionaires instead of comedians. Listen, I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't know that that was going to hit a Nerf. All right, you need to stop shouting at me. We got to get to join you.

[George Camel]

Hit it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jordan is in Panama City, Florida. Jordan, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hello, I am calling because I'm an educator and I make about 50,000 a year. That's take home. And I'm in debt right now, so I have about 30k in credit card debt and also personal loans as well. I have three personal loans currently, and I'm trying To figure out what would be the best course of action on my income to be able to kind of reduce some of this debt. Have a daughter. I'm a single parent, so I have to take care of all the household expenses, you know, her extracurricular activities, like her sports that she plays, things like that. So. And I'm trying to not have to work for three jobs, you know, trying to make sure I'm present. So I'm kind of running into some issues as far as, like, trying to make sure that my income is enough to kind of pay off some of this debt and get in a better financial system.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let's start. Let's start with where you are currently with your current income, because I certainly understand your heart there, you know, to try not to take on more, you know, because now you gotta have somebody watch her, and that's tough. So with George, the budget guru here, first question I have for you is, with your current income and your current workload, are you budgeting to a point that you actually have some margin each month after all of your basic expenses?

[Ken Coleman]

It's very minimal because like I said, I. I do have. Even though it's not like a ton of credit card debt, it's over, like, nine different credit cards. So they all have different monthly payments. So that kind of makes it a little bit more challenging on the credit card.

[George Camel]

What happened that got us into all this debt? What do you spend all this money on personal loans and credit cards?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, what happened was I was living in a. I hadn't always been living for hours, Living to where else? That was slightly higher cost of living and still in the same position. But I wasn't making. I wasn't even making 20 an hour to try to survive. So at that point, I was just in survival mode. So I was getting more credit and equating that to more money, but that's not more money. That's just more debt.

[George Camel]

Okay, so have you taken a turn? Have you borrowed a dime in the last year? When did all this stop?

[Ken Coleman]

No, it. It's been three years now.

[George Camel]

Three years since you've had this debt or took. Took out this debt, and now you're trying to clean up the mess?

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Okay. And you have how much in personal loans? You said you have 30,000 in credit card debt, but it sounds like there's more.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure the exact amount. I think it's closer to that 30k. There's. It's three different personal loans, so three different payments. So that's about 9.95amonth just to repay them.

[George Camel]

We're gonna. We're gonna have some homework to do. You're going to go to annualcreditreport.com you can pull your credit reports for free. And that's going to give you a real accurate picture of where you stand today. How much debt you owe into who. Then what you're going to do is list all these debts out from smallest to largest nine credit cards. We're going to list out the smallest one first, then go all the way up, and you're going to make minimum payments on all of these debts. But on that little one, you're going to attack it with a vengeance. So it's going to get paid off fast and it's going to free up a payment faster.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

That's called the debt snowball method. Method. That is the only way and best way to get out of debt once and for all in my book. And so in the baby steps that we teach, baby step one is $1,000. Starter emergency fund. Do you have a thousand bucks right now?

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[George Camel]

How soon could you get a thousand bucks next paycheck?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, because we do get a couple different checks for at the end of the year. I could probably take out a thousand from that because we get multiple paychecks at one time to finish paying.

[George Camel]

But what about your next paycheck? How much is that going to be?

[Ken Coleman]

I take home about 2,000, but we get four of them to pay out our contract, so It'll be about 8,000 that I'll get.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what are your total monthly expenses? Like Ken mentioned, what do you actually need to run your household for one month?

[Ken Coleman]

Approximately 2,000 because my mortgage is about 14 and some change.

[George Camel]

What was the total per month for?

[Ken Coleman]

It's about 1445.

[George Camel]

No, I'm saying what's the total expenses per month? Is it 3000, 4000, 5000 per month to cover everything?

[Ken Coleman]

About. About 2000. Because I don't have a car payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's. It can't be right. Because you said Your mortgage is 1400. You told us that your debt payment on the credit cards alone is 900.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh. Oh, I thought you were talking about. I just.

[George Camel]

Transportation, minimum debt payments, insurance, all of that combined to cover you for one month.

[Ken Coleman]

That's about $3,500.

[George Camel]

Okay. And you're bringing in probably around 4,200 or so. You said you make 50k take home.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's. It's right under 42. It's actually about 41. Okay.

[George Camel]

So here's what that means, though. You said you spend 3,500amonth and you bring in 4,100, which means you should have 600 bucks extra per month, right?

[Ken Coleman]

It just depends. It varies by month.

[George Camel]

Because, Jordan, hear me clearly. This needs to become mathematically sound. Where you go, I know exactly where every dollar is going. I know exactly where every dollar, every dollar is coming in. So far, you've been floating through life. Is that true? You've been in survival mode, living paycheck to paycheck for. For too long. And so going forward, you need to know exactly what's happening with your money because you work too hard to be this broke. So I'm going to hook you up with every Dollar premium. It's our budgeting app, and you're going to lay out your income. That take home pay from each paycheck is going to be listed under income for the month of June. Then underneath that list, every single expense, everything has a line item. Everything has a home, every dollar has a job. And that's going to show you how much is left over. And with that amount left over, you're going to put that away in a savings account. Do you have one of those?

[Ken Coleman]

I do.

[George Camel]

Okay, good. Which means within two paychecks or three paychecks, you'll have $1,000 in that savings account, correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Which means it's not maybe going to happen. It's going to happen. I'm putting 600 bucks away no matter what, and I'll figure out the rest. That's the kind of attitude you're going to need to get out of this debt on top of getting your income up.

[Dave Ramsey]

So better job is what we're looking to in the long term. Short term, if you have to pick up a second job, that's fine. But you got to get to a point. Let's. Let's work off of George's numbers where you should have a surplus of $600 a month. Okay. Now if we can go make an additional 1500, let's just. Or let's just say 1400. Let's round that up to two grand. You start putting that 20 towards debt. That's $24,000 of debt paid off in 12 months. I just want you to catch a vision for that. Doesn't mean you're gonna have to do that forever. But you may have to do that for a short season because you're a single mama. But you can do it. We believe in you.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, you guys. I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsey show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey101 YouTube playlist. A quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's inside. What the baby steps are and why they actually work. How the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast. And how to build wealth and invest for the future and so much more. So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube video playlist. Copy it, text it, send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help. Because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share, one playlist, one step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share the Ramsey show, and let's help someone out there start winning with money.