You Still Have Time To Change Your Financial Situation

Summary

The Ramsey Show

Episode: You Still Have Time To Change Your Financial Situation
Date: November 17, 2025

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Overview

In this engaging and spirited episode, Ken Coleman and George Kamel take calls from listeners facing a variety of financial and relational crossroads. With the trademark Ramsey blend of tough love and practical advice, they help callers navigate student loan debt, credit card traps, relationship money conflicts, entrepreneurial dilemmas, and growing pains—and even dig into deeper issues of trust, control, and family. The hosts reinforce the show's core belief: "You still have time to change your financial situation," no matter the past mistakes or the size of the challenge.

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Key Discussion Points

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1. Money and Commitment in Relationships

[00:39–09:01] | [10:51–21:24]

• Caller “Penny” from New Orleans is struggling with a Parent PLUS loan taken for her son’s college and her boyfriend’s reluctance to marry her until it’s gone.

  • Ken and George challenge the boyfriend’s “principled stand,” suggesting it’s an excuse to avoid marriage since he’s already committed to having a child together.
  • Key Quotes:
    • Ken (02:16): “This is a convenient principle to not marry you and you've bought it hook, line and sinker. . . .I think this is a relationship issue.”
    • George (05:59): “This is a DTR—Define the Relationship—conversation.”
  • Advice: Address the root relational issues. Financial excuses should not mask a lack of commitment.
  • Memorable Moment: The realization that they own separate homes (07:13), rarely live together full-time, and have not truly merged their lives.

• Caller “Tonya” from Louisville faces getting out of debt on low income and disability, compounded by a manipulative, unhealthy relationship.

  • Her partner controls finances, pressured her into bad investments, and forces her to stay in his house after jeopardizing her financial independence.
  • Ken bluntly advises: (16:00) “You need to break up with this guy. This is done. This guy’s completely not long term material.”
  • George summarizes the path forward: Move out, find employment elsewhere, focus on covering essentials first, and stop letting debt collectors run your life.
  • Notable Reflection: Both callers highlight how financial issues are often symptoms of deeper relational and empowerment problems.

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2. Young Entrepreneurship: Growth Without Debt

[22:46–31:13]

• Riley, 18, Atlanta: Home-schooled, runs a $50k/month landscaping company, wonders whether to rent, buy, or rent-to-own a dump trailer.
  • Advice: Rent equipment until buying makes clear sense and always pay cash.
    • Ken: (23:54) “Don’t rent to own. Just rent until you have the cash to buy.”
  • George: Encourages Riley to run competitive calculations and warns against premature, emotionally-driven purchases: “Move at the speed of cash, not at the speed of how fast you want the business to grow.” (28:47)
  • Memorable Moment: The hosts gush over an 18-year-old already employing others and generating real wealth, urging parents to reconsider the “default path” of college-for-all.

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3. Rebuilding After Disaster—Making Big Money Decisions

[32:59–41:34]

• Randy in Los Angeles is rebuilding after his house burns down in the LA fires, trying to bridge a $400k gap between insurance payout and rebuild costs.
  • George: Advises using liquid cash and future income, not retirement savings, to bridge the gap: (36:47) “Why not use the 300 and only take 100 from your retirement?”
    • Warns about the opportunity cost of withdrawing from retirement: “That money's gonna double every seven years.” (36:52)
  • Ken: Encourages careful insurance review, annual re-shopping, and understanding what your policy actually covers.
  • Memorable Commentary: The hosts discuss how major upheavals expose whether you’re truly protected—and the value of community when rebuilding.

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4. Financial Control and Emotional Abuse in Marriage

[44:13–52:29]

• Emily from Dallas: Married 14 years, never allowed access to family finances, now working and considering a separate account—husband responds by removing her from joint accounts.
  • George: Diagnoses emotionally controlling behavior: (46:31) “There's either one of two things, maybe both: He's super controlling or he's hiding something.”
  • Ken: (49:07) “Something is really going on. . . .This is very extreme.”
  • Advice: Seek marriage counseling, set firm boundaries, and do not accept gaslighting or financial abuse.
  • Memorable Quotes:
    • Emily: (45:30) “Not equal.”
    • George: (52:26) “That's called gaslighting.”

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5. Navigating Inheritances Amid Family Conflict

[54:35–63:41]

• Nick from Boston inherits $340k life insurance, pressured by family to split with siblings but faces abuse and betrayal.
  • Ken: “I think your gut is the one you go with here. . . .I'd sleep very well at night not giving them a nickel.” (61:47)
  • George: Acknowledges peace of mind vs. family obligations—no perfect answer, but urges Nick to not sacrifice his well-being for dysfunctional relationships.
  • Memorable moment: Nick’s struggle encapsulates the complexities of money, family, and boundaries when “blood isn’t always thicker than water.”

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6. Student Loan and Credit Card Debt Crisis

[86:54–95:14]

• Michelle from Phoenix: $270k in student loans (plus mortgage), only one income (~$92k), freelance writer unable to find paid gigs.
  • Ken: Urges a mindset shift: “Where there’s a will, there’s a way . . . you need to be targeting something in the $50–$75k range.”
  • George: Cuts to the chase—stop charity work, focus ALL efforts on paid employment (content/copywriting, grant writing, adjunct teaching), and get creative about remote income.
  • Advice: Prioritize the four walls (food, shelter, transportation, utilities), pause debt payments while in survival mode, and relentlessly pursue any job to increase income—even if it’s not ideal.
  • Memorable Moment: Ken gifts “The Proximity Principle” book to help Michelle network her way into opportunities.

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7. Dealing with Parental Dependents (and Real Estate Tangles)

[68:01–75:48]

• Carol in Knoxville: Wants to sell an Iowa house but can’t get disabled in-laws (who pay minimal rent) to move.
  • Ken: “You guys are being taken advantage of, the more detail we get.”
  • George: Summarizes options—keep letting them live there until they must move (health/death) or husband needs to take direct action.
  • Advice: Do not go into debt fixing up the house for them; subsidize alternate housing only if able and willing.

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8. Car Payments Are (Still) Killing Wealth

[76:34–84:20]

• Hayden, 25, entering the Air Force: Wants financial advice but has a $53k truck loan with an $825/mo payment on $32k salary.
  • George: "Sell the truck yesterday.” (83:15)
  • Ken: Stresses walking the Ramsey Baby Steps and not letting family enable poor financial decisions.
  • Key Quote:
    • George: "All your goals are in direct opposition to your actual behavior.” (82:45)
  • Memorable moment: Both hosts incredulously grill Hayden on why he financed such an expensive vehicle.

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9. Business Focus: When to Let Go

[117:17–126:18]

• Casey from Long Island: Divided focus between several businesses, with an HVAC company floundering due to neglect.
  • George: “You don’t care enough about the business to keep it alive. . . .Don’t put a dime into it.” (120:48)
  • Ken: Recommends either personally reinvesting time or shutting it down and moving on.

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10. Listener Stories and Inspirational Moments

[108:05–116:47]

• Debt-Free Scream:
  • Jose and Maria, LA: Paid off $215k in four years via radical lifestyle change, teamwork, and faith-based FPU classes.
  • Quote: “Everything we owned, we financed. . . It just became a regular form of living. . . and it became something that was just out of control.” (109:02)
  • Memorable Moment: They cash out their daughter’s quinceañera fund to pay debt, trusting God to provide later. True sacrifice.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Enabling Partners:
  • Ken (16:00): “You need to break up with this guy. This is done. This guy's completely not long term material.”
• On Buying Equipment for Business:
  • Ken (23:54): “Don't rent to own. Just rent until you have the cash to buy any equipment.”
  • George (28:47): “Move at the speed of cash, not at the speed of how fast you want the business to grow.”
• On Financial Control in Marriage:
  • Emily: (45:30) “Not equal.”
  • George: “That's called gaslighting.” (52:26)
• Family Inheritance Conflicts:
  • Ken (61:47): “I'd sleep very well at night not giving them a nickel.”
• On Massive Student Loan Debt:
  • George (93:06): “The charity work, passion project stuff needs to stop because we need to cover our own household right now.”
• Debt-Free Scream:
  • Jose & Maria (115:52): “We are debt free!“

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:39 – Penny: Marrying with Parent PLUS loan/commitment issues
• 10:51 – Tonya: Debt, disability, manipulative relationship
• 22:46 – Riley: Teen landscaping entrepreneur and equipment financing
• 32:59 – Randy: Rebuilding after fire, insurance/retirement dilemma
• 44:13 – Emily: Locked out of finances in marriage
• 54:35 – Nick: Inheritance family conflict
• 68:01 – Carol: In-laws in rental house issue
• 76:34 – Hayden: Air Force, $53k truck loan
• 86:54 – Michelle: $270k student loan and freelance employment
• 108:05 – Jose & Maria: Debt-free scream
• 117:17 – Casey: Letting go of a failing side business

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Tone & Style

The hosts speak directly, with warmth and candor. They mix humor with hard truths, unafraid of confronting avoidance or denial. The show’s energy is positive but disciplined—no coddling, but plenty of encouragement that listeners have the power (and responsibility) to turn things around.

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Takeaways

• Financial problems often expose deeper relational, emotional, or character issues—fixing the math is only part of fixing your life.
• Don’t let "principles" or family narratives justify unhealthy, controlling, or unloving behavior—from others or yourself.
• Building wealth requires discipline: avoid debt, be patient in business, and live beneath your means.
• Don’t trade peace of mind or personal boundaries for family “harmony.”
• True change is possible—"You still have time to change your financial situation"—but it always starts with courageous honesty.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[B]

Normal is broke. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey show alongside Mr. Bomber Jacket himself, otherwise known as George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. We're excited to be with you. And George said me just moments ago, he said hey, let's have some fun today. And I said done.

[C]

That was a mandate. Executive order done if you will.

[B]

We do love a good executive order around here. Straight from the desk of George Camel. We appreciate your attention on this matter. All right, Penny is up in New Orleans, Louisiana. Penny, how can we help?

[D]

Hi. So me and my boyfriend have been together for about four years. We have a seven month old baby together. And I also have a 23 year old from relationship. A couple years ago I did a parent plus loan for my son to go off to college in another state. My son and I agreed that he would make the payments on the loan. My bar friend believes that I should also be making payments on the loan to get rid of it as fast as I possibly can. And he believes that he does not want to take that into a marriage. And I agree with him. But I feel like the loan is being paid and I just don't hold on.

[C]

This man, this man procreated with you before marriage but he's like, yeah, but go ahead and pay that parent plus loan off. I'm not going near marriage until you get that done. Is that, Am I hearing that right?

[D]

Yes, you are.

[C]

Okay. Just want to make sure America heard.

[B]

Do we? I know, because I guess the question for you is Penny, do you think that this is a principled financial stand or that is a cop out because he doesn't want to put a ring on your finger?

[D]

No, I think it's the principal stand.

[B]

I don't.

[C]

The principle of what? That he. Cuz he. Is there any other debt.

[B]

He decided to have a baby with you. Isn't that where you were going, George, or.

[C]

No, that's exactly where I want.

[B]

I think this is a, this is a convenient principle to not marry you and you've bought it hook, line and sinker. And I, I. You know what, I'll be honest. You probably didn't expect us to say that and it's probably the last thing you wanted to hear, but I think it's the thing to hear. I was feeling the same thing George was feeling.

[C]

I'm putting myself in his shoes. Here's My best reasoning for why he's feeling this way. He wants there to be closure from this past relationship and that debt is lingering in the balance. That's kind of tying you to your ex, correct?

[D]

No, I wouldn't say that.

[B]

Yeah, I actually disagree with that.

[C]

What's his reasoning? Have you asked him?

[B]

He don't want to get married.

[D]

His reasoning is he doesn't. He wants to be completely debt free. That's his reasoning. That he gives to me. So he feels like once we become one, that debt also becomes his.

[C]

So he doesn't want to deny.

[B]

Well, he's right about that. He's right about that. We teach it. Okay, let me, let me ask a couple of quick questions. Was there any conversation about marriage prior to the baby?

[D]

There was some. Very little.

[B]

Very little. And when did he take a stand on this Parent plus loan? When did he drop this principled stance?

[D]

After the baby? Just recently. Which is why I'm calling.

[B]

But he knew about it before then, correct?

[C]

Correct. What's left on the loan?

[B]

I smell a rag.

[C]

30.

[D]

30,000.

[C]

And what is the agreement? Is it written that you're not going to be on the hook for this Parent plus loan? I mean, legally you are. But as far as the repayment plan.

[D]

Correct. As far as the agreement between my son and I, he will be making the payments. But legally, yes, I am responsible for the loan.

[C]

But there's nothing in writing. It just was a handshake. Hey, you would.

[D]

Correct? Yes.

[C]

Okay. That part scares me because here's the thing. They didn't trust him to take on this debt, which they'll give a 17 year old $100,000 at this point. So that, that's worrisome. And my fear is what if he can't pay?

[D]

So if he can't pay, then I know that that falls on me and I'm willing to pay the loan. But he's been paying it. And maybe that's his fear. Maybe that's my boyfriend's fear that, you know, he won't continue to pay and it's going to fall on him.

[B]

No. Your boyfriend's afraid to get married.

[C]

How long have you guys been together?

[D]

Four years.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I, you know what? I, I have nothing else to add. I've never been more clear about something on this show. It's just lining up that he's using this as an excuse. So now this is a relationship conversation.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Because think about what you just said. Hey guys, here's the situation. What advice do you guys have? What are your thoughts? What Do I. Do you want this man to marry you?

[C]

Correct, correct.

[B]

Okay, so this is a relationship issue. Now, you're responsible for this loan. So it's not what he's saying that I disagree with. I just want you to know that I think this is a relationship issue. And we got to find out what the real real is, because all of a sudden, this loan has become super important to him.

[E]

It's.

[B]

It's, you know, to George's point, he'll have a baby with you, but, oh, I'm gonna stop short of actually marrying you.

[C]

Yeah. I guess my point is the commitments already happened. He just. He can't admit it yet, and he's not taking the logical next step. And so that part is worrisome from the relationship.

[B]

I'm worried. Yeah. I think this is a dtr, Define the relationship conversation, you know.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Do you have money right now? How much do you have in savings right now?

[D]

My savings. I have 10,000.

[C]

Okay. Would it make him feel better if you had that amount in cash in case something happened, you could write a check and be done with the parent plus loan.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

How quickly could you save up enough to have that amount?

[D]

I mean, a couple months.

[C]

In a couple months, you can come.

[B]

Up with 20 grand.

[D]

Oh, no, not. I'm sorry, I thought you said 10.

[C]

No, you have 10.

[B]

I was like, this call got even more interesting.

[C]

I'm saying if you had that money earmarked and you said, hey, if something goes wrong, I'll be able to cover it.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

And have you guys combined finances while.

[D]

No, we have not combined finances.

[C]

So how do you guys currently split all the bills? Is it 50? 50?

[D]

No, I pay my own bills currently. He pays his own.

[B]

Who pays for the baby?

[D]

We both.

[C]

Okay, so there is a split bill here, and then you guys are living together.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So how does rent work?

[B]

Whoa. There was a little pause that needs to be investigated.

[D]

Well, so we both have mortgages.

[C]

You guys have two separate homes.

[D]

Correct. Because we both had homes prior to our relationship.

[C]

But you're living in one house and the other one's empty.

[B]

No, no. They live together some. And that's why the paws.

[D]

Yeah, because we live together some.

[C]

So who. I'm just confused, folks.

[B]

I'm rarely this. Right. I just want to point this out. I sniffed this out really early on here.

[C]

If my. Okay, I have about a. I have a 2 month old. If I said, hey, babe, I got another house, I'm going to crash there for a few nights, good luck with baby, we would be divorced. Do you understand? How is this man not there full time in this child's life?

[D]

So we're trying to work on that currently. So we're trying to find a daycare that's actually closer to where he lives so we can stay out that way.

[C]

Why don't you sell the house and live together and be married and live like a couple?

[D]

Because that's another question.

[C]

This is why. It's not the financial issue.

[B]

That's what I've been saying. George, welcome to the party.

[C]

I just got. I just arrived.

[B]

You just got where I was.

[C]

I brought some fruitcake.

[B]

Thank you, Penny. Oh, Penny. Penny, listen, as your friends, this man needs to commit and he needs to commit all in. You got a baby together, go to the courthouse, get married, pay the loan off.

[C]

If it wasn't the debt, it'd be another thing. It'd be like, well, I don't like that you have your own house. Until you sell that, I'm not going to get married. There's always going to be another reason.

[B]

He doesn't live with you, he doesn't want to marry you. This is the problem.

[C]

Dave. We got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[A]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[C]

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance.

[C]

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[A]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan, whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[C]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best Price. No pressure, no upselling.

[A]

I've trusted Jeff, Zander, and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family.

[C]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[A]

Protect yourself, protect your income, Protect your family.

[B]

All right, let's go to Tonya in Louisville, Kentucky. Tonya, what is going on?

[D]

Hello? Oh, my gosh, I'm so nervous.

[B]

Well, you should not be. I mean, after all, you're just talking to me and George.

[C]

There's nothing on the line. There's no game show, no prizes.

[B]

That's. We're here to help.

[D]

Well, thank you for taking my call. So my question is kind of multifaceted, but the reason for my call today primarily is how do I get out of debt with a disability and only being or and earning very low income? I was awarded partial disability, and I do receive payments for myself and my child. I'm a single mother.

[B]

How much do you get?

[D]

For 2025, it was including child support, the payment. And if I'm earning, my max income was $3,057.

[B]

What do you mean by if I'm earning my. So I'm a little confused because you'll.

[C]

Lose your disability if you make too much.

[D]

If I make too much, they take away my disability. So I always try to work within the parameters that they gave me, but I live in a very small rural area.

[C]

So what are you doing for work?

[D]

I'm a substitute teacher.

[B]

And what's the max that you can earn before they would take away your disability payment?

[D]

You have nine times to go above what that is.

[B]

I'm not asking how many times. I'm just asking. I'm just unfamiliar with this, and we want to coach you through it. What is the amount of money that then triggers that they say you no longer need? Because that's what this is about. They go, okay, if you make X amount of dollars, then you don't need the disability help. So what's the number?

[D]

So for 2025, it was $1,160 a month? Yes.

[C]

That's the max you can make?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, let me ask you a question.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

How much money can you actually make?

[C]

In other words, take disability out of the picture.

[B]

Take disability out of the picture. If you can work, what kind of a job do you think you could get? And what kind of job, what kind of money could you make? Have you figured that out?

[D]

No.

[B]

Or what were you doing before? What were you doing before? What's your work history?

[D]

Well, there has been a lot. The majority of it has been in early education and childhood development. I never did graduate college, so I don't have certifications to be in the classroom, but I'm certified to do assistant teaching.

[B]

So you could make somewhere between 30 to 40 thousand dollars, I'm guessing.

[D]

No, I don't think it's that much because you're really would depend on the school. But where I am right now.

[B]

Okay, because you're out in the middle of nowhere and why are you living out in the middle of nowhere? This is all relevant.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Why are you. Why are you way out in the middle of, you know, Podunk?

[D]

Okay. So I moved from a bigger city with my partner, my boyfriend at the time. And that was almost 10 years ago.

[E]

We moved.

[B]

And is he in. Is he still in the picture?

[D]

Yes, he is, but I'm. It's not a very healthy relationship. And he continues to tell me he's not going to marry me because I'm in debt right now.

[B]

Oh, wow. This is two of these in a row.

[C]

How much are you in?

[B]

These guys are bad liars. How much debt do you have?

[D]

When we moved out here, I had zero. And I put the money down on the house that we bought together. Right now I. Since I lost my job in 2023, I started living on credit cards.

[B]

How much debt do you have?

[D]

$40,000.

[C]

That's all credit card debt?

[B]

That's it.

[D]

All credit card.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And you.

[B]

And you have a mortgage?

[D]

No. He bought another house without me and forced me to sell the house we bought together jointly.

[C]

What happened? Was there any profits there? Did you lose money? Because you said you had a down payment.

[D]

I did. So we got. We sold the house for a profit and then we put. The bank was supposed to give us two separate checks, but they screwed up, wrote us one check and couldn't close on the house. If we said no, you have to redo the checks. So we. I said, okay, that's fine. We're here now. We put it in a joint account in a money Market Fidelity account, and then he invested it without my knowledge or permission and lost about $50,000 of my money.

[B]

Okay, well, I think let's just a real quick bumper sticker and George will keep coaching you and I've got some thoughts on how to make more money, but you need to break up with this guy. This is done. This guy's completely not long term material. You know it, I know it. George Knows it. Everybody knows it. Everybody in the lobby knows it. They're all shitty.

[D]

I'm living in his house right now because.

[B]

Not a problem. That's not a problem. You can solve that. You go. I'm done with him. How did you live before?

[D]

So I found. I found a house to rent in the county, but it's eleven hundred dollars a month, and right now I'm only bringing in not even close to what the max I'm allowed.

[C]

Okay, but you said you're making 3,000, right?

[B]

You got 3,000 coming in.

[D]

No, I'm not. That's the max that I could make if I was subbing all the time.

[C]

Okay, and what's the nature of the disability?

[D]

Yeah, multiple sclerosis.

[C]

Okay, but you're able to do substitute teaching for a certain amount of hours without it affecting that or what?

[D]

Yes, substitute teaching has been okay for me. Before this. I was working. Working in a factory and it. I. My body tanked.

[B]

I got.

[D]

It was having flares all the time.

[B]

Well, first of all, I don't want to minimize this at all, but there. There is a reality in your story where you're in an awful relationship that is not only not benefiting you as a human being in a relational capacity, it is also not benefiting you financially. This guy's a loser. He's manipulating you. All the things I'm just gonn out as I see it. But here's the thing. You also have a. You have a challenge, a physical challenge that's not going away. So you're going to have to push through the best you can. So here's my point. I have an idea of what your schedule and what your physical activity looks like as a substitute teacher. I have an idea. And so I can tell you that you're not limited to being a substitute teacher where you're at the absolute bottom rung of the ladder financially, as opposed to being an office manager or working in another capacity where you're sitting some, standing some. And I know it's hard, but we don't have any other option. I don't want you to be at the mercy of the state. And you are at the mercy of the state right now. You'd be better off going out and making 45, $50,000 a year, getting free of this clown and getting out of this debt.

[D]

I don't know that I can get a job that pays that much because I don't have a college degree.

[B]

Yeah, that's not true.

[C]

That's not the factor here. You could work in Any administrative role without a degree today. That's right.

[B]

In a school and outside of a school. And one of the things you're gonna have to consider is moving out of Red Dirt, Kentucky, wherever you are.

[D]

Okay, so how do I. How do I do that and still pay my credit card?

[C]

Because, well, the truth is you may not be able to pay the credit card.

[B]

You're worried about the credit card?

[C]

Cover your four walls first. That's food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance. And outside of that, if you can't pay the credit card after that's all paid, then they can kick rocks and pound sand because they gave you an open line of credit for someone who couldn't pay it.

[B]

And you have a disability payment coming in every month. You told us that.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

How much is that again? Let's review that.

[D]

Okay, so just a number. Just a number and my daughter together. That's like right around almost. Almost to 1600.

[B]

Okay, that's what we. That's the four walls at Georgia Sub. That's what you're starting with. You also told me that you could make about a thousand dollars a month more without being penalized. So let's go find a thousand dollar job. And you've already got that. But you need to move out of this guy's house. You need to find a better economic area where there are job opportunities for you. You must happen to your life right now or you're going to be a victim of all of this. And you don't have to be, but you got to take some initiative here. You take control.

[D]

Everything's just been working for a job. This was the best thing that came along until I found that's because you're.

[B]

In a bad area living with a bad guy in a bad living situation. You can change this.

[C]

I'd be looking for jobs outside of that area. And then once you get that job, we can move, we can rent somewhere, and we can get some financial footing that's not tied to him or this disability.

[A]

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[B]

All right, the all new everydollar is here, George. And it's way, way, way more than our world class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features including you get to have a 10 minute call with one of our coaches. If you just can't get the 15 minutes of initial help which finds thousands of dollars in margin for people who just walk through that first 15 minutes of questions. That onboarding alone, it's unbelievable. It's like a digital version of calling in the show. I watched it happen before my eyes the other day. Great stuff. You can start every dollar for free today by going to the App store or Google Play and check it out. It's free. I don't know why you wouldn't try it. And it is like having one of us, as George likes to say, in your pocket. Now, you're a small guy. You might be able to fit in somebody's pocket. That's hurtful.

[C]

I thought it was because of my skinny jeans. It's just hard to fit anything in there.

[B]

Well, the skinny jeans make you more svelte.

[C]

But if I'm in their pocket, that's fine. I can fit.

[B]

That's fine. Your pocket be pretty crowded.

[C]

Good luck.

[B]

Riley is up in Atlanta, Georgia. Riley, how can we help?

[E]

Hey, how are y' all today?

[B]

Good. What's going on?

[E]

Hey, so I'm 18. I run this company. I've got no debt.

[B]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. We lost you. We lost you. Said I'm 18 and I lost it.

[C]

Something company.

[E]

I run a landscape company. Okay, okay. So we're growing pretty rapidly. We did about 50 and this past month in revenue and we're, we're increasing that. And I need some more equipment.

[B]

Did you say, did you say 50,000? I'm sorry, you dropped again?

[E]

Yes, sir. 50,000.

[B]

Okay. One month.

[E]

Yes, sir.

[C]

Okay. And you need new equipment.

[E]

So we're going to be needing some new equipment and I've been looking at a couple different options. I can't go and pay cash for a dump trailer or a truck just yet. I've got one truck right now. But for a dump trailer, would it be best to continue renting one when I need it? It's about 150 a day, 500 a week. Or find a rent to own option because there's rent to own options that I could do.

[B]

No, no, don't rent to own. Just rent until you have the Cash to buy any equipment. If I was in your business, George may have a different opinion. He'll jump in here in a second. But for me, if I was in your shoes, I wouldn't be in any kind of crazy rush to buy cash. Even though we're going to say buy cash, I wouldn't be in any kind of hurry to buy equipment until it just made so much sense. Let me explain what that means. I'm going to rent the equipment. It's somebody else's equipment. That means they got to pay to fix it. They got their own insurance. You're renting. If it doesn't work, guess what? They bring out another one. You're not paying to have it fixed, and you're building that into your job. That's the cost. So if it cost 150 bucks a day for a thing, I'm going to and I've got three clients in the nearby area or whatever, I'm going to take that and I'm going to put that in the cost of paying me to do my job. So that is an expense that you build as much as possible and still be competitive. That's how you do that. And so you have no debt. Number one, no pressure. Number two, really not much of a hassle. And you're covering that cost. Okay. Which is awesome. Your greatest expense item outside of payroll, George, is going to be his equipment. And so if you can get your equipment covered all the way or in a great amount, man, is that smart. And now you're stacking cash. Stacking cash, Stacking cash. And I know it feels awesome. You're a young guy. 18. Congratulations on a $50,000 revenue month. That's fricking unbelievable, man, what a stud you are. Much love, but, man, it's going to be a temptation to go, I want to buy something, George. I want a machine that's mine. And even if you pay cash, I still think that cash is better off sitting and growing and stacking and stacking and stacking until it is just not even in the same ballpark of risk. To go buy something, I would hold, hold, hold, hold for a long time. It's a very conservative take, but I think it's safe.

[C]

George, I'm retweeting all of this. I co signed that with Ken Riley. What does it cost to get a reasonable used dump trailer that would do the job?

[E]

Around five to six grand.

[C]

Where did the $50,000 go this month that you made?

[E]

Okay, so about 30 grand of that was cost of doing work, labor, and whatnot. And then I'll have around 18 or so left after everything's said and done.

[C]

So you could pay cash for a used dump trailer today?

[E]

I could.

[C]

Okay. And so have you done the math on, like, the break even point if you keep renting versus buying a used one in cash today? Because my guess is you. You break even pretty quickly.

[E]

Yeah, yeah. If I. If I buy a new dump trailer versus buying a used one, I break even point half the time.

[C]

I mean, I would buy a used one. What's the point of buying a new dump trailer? New and dump in the same sentence is ridiculous already.

[B]

It makes me itch thinking about it. In fact, I want the nastiest dump trailer on the planet.

[E]

Say again?

[B]

I want the nastiest, oldest dump trailer on the planet. All I wanted to do is hold stuff.

[C]

You know, it's for work. It's not turning eyes at the. At the red light. You know what I mean?

[B]

But, George, how soon would you buy a dump trailer? I don't want to buy.

[C]

How long have you been making this kind of money?

[E]

Say again?

[C]

How long have you been making this kind of money?

[E]

It's just been this past month, and we're growing steadily.

[B]

Do you offset that cost now into your jobs? What's your quote?

[E]

Yes, I do.

[B]

Okay, I have a question. Hang tight, Riley. We're going to act like you're not in the room. George, why would he. Why would he ever buy a dump trailer when he can take the rental cost of that and pass it off to his clients?

[C]

That is true. I mean, there's a world where you go, I can be more competitive if I owned it outright. I don't have to keep adding this expense and I can lower my prices. That's an option. But I'm with Ken right now. I think it's only been a month. I would let this sit and see what your actual needs are six months from now. And by then you're sitting on 100 grand of cash. If you do this the right way, and you'll really be able to expand smart instead of just going, well, this was a crazy month. I'm growing. I got to go get all this equipment. And then you find out I didn't need all this equipment. Because every. Every time you add more equipment to your life, you're also adding some repair and maintenance cost as well.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Insurance cost. There's a lot of other things to factor in here.

[B]

And be clear, I'm not anti buying the dump thing. I'm just. I'm just Asking critical questions. I just wanted to make sure that we know that it's the best choice. And if buying the dump thing is the best choice, I say go for it. I just want to critically think through it and go, what's the balance here? And there's a right time to do it, I'm sure, but the key is.

[C]

Just move at the speed of cash, not at the speed of how fast you want the business to grow. And once you have that retained earnings set aside for this, then I would say, all right, let's upgrade as it makes sense strategically. What does it cost per day to rent?

[E]

About 150.

[C]

And you're using that. Is it seven days a week? Four days a week?

[E]

About two to three.

[C]

Two to three days a week?

[E]

Yes, sir.

[C]

Okay, so it's costing you, what, 450 a week?

[E]

450 a week? About 1800amonth.

[C]

Okay, that's not bad if you're baking it into the cost. And so long term, if you're just sick of it and you want to own something instead of continually rent and you figure out a way to make it work financially, I think that's the right move.

[B]

All right, I gotta ask a biographical question. America needs to hear this. Are you still in high school or have you already graduated?

[E]

No, I was home schooled. Finished up school early, and I'm still living with my parents.

[B]

How long you been doing this business?

[E]

Five years.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

13.

[B]

So you started at 13 and what, give us a range of the clients that are driving this kind of revenue? 50 grand a month. Is there some corporate places where you're doing their landscape, or is it all personal homes?

[E]

It's. It's all over the place. We've got. We're running ad. Some of them are referrals.

[C]

So it's.

[E]

It's a wide range.

[B]

So you got residential plus business properties?

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

How big of a team is this?

[E]

We've got two guys full time, me, myself, and one other. And then I've got a couple buddies that come in part time whenever we have larger jobs that need some heck.

[B]

How. How old are your core guys you just mentioned?

[E]

One is 20, one is 19 and another is 19.

[B]

What are you paying those guys per hour?

[E]

About 20 an hour. 25 depending on, you know, when I'm on the job versus not.

[B]

All right, thank you. Impressive, folks. Parrots.

[C]

There you have it.

[B]

I just don't know why we're pressuring our kids to go to college when they don't even know why they're going to College. This kid is on his way to.

[C]

Do what he's doing.

[B]

Yeah, Riley's been doing it since he's 13 and he just started off with a lawnmower. Now he's got other 19 and 20 year olds and he's paying them 20 to $25 an hour.

[C]

That's why.

[B]

And they got no student loan debt. Just gonna leave that there for you.

[C]

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[D]

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[C]

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[C]

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[D]

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[C]

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[B]

All right, let's go to Randy in Los Angeles. Randy, how can we help today?

[E]

Well, first of all, thank you for taking my call. Very excited to hear your advice and talk to you guys. So our house got caught up in the January LA fires and burned to the ground.

[B]

Oh, no. Where were you?

[E]

Yeah, it was horrible. So in Altadena.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

The whole community, 6,500 homes got destroyed.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Very devastating. But now we're in a kind of an excitement boat because we're rebuilding. So we're, we're moving past that.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

Luckily we had enough insurance. We have a lot. We have a lawsuit with SoCal Edison that's two or three years down the road. But we're, we're about to rebuild for 1.6 million. Insurance will probably cover about 1.1 local. Edison will probably get about 200k, but you can't count on that. So I'm wondering if I should draw from my retirement to cover the Delta or looking at other options because it's, it's probably about a 400k delta to what we have for mature. Yeah.

[C]

Was there a Mortgage?

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

There.

[E]

The mortgage is about 631. We could probably sell the property for about 800k. But we lost 500k in equity and rebuilding for 1.6. The property value is going to be really big in four to five years. So I think it would be a financial decision maybe. Right.

[C]

Is the option to sell and walk away with 150 grand and go elsewhere or we rebuild and take on an extra 400 grand in debt or rob our retirement?

[E]

Yes, basically those are the options.

[C]

That's a rock and a hard place if I've ever seen one. How badly are you wanting to rebuild versus just selling for what you can get for it?

[E]

Well, we're pretty into the Altadena strong rebuild mentality. I think my retirement has enough to cover that. Just like to get your opinion.

[B]

How much do you have in retirement?

[E]

About 2.7.

[B]

How old are you?

[E]

63.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

You said it's all taxable.

[E]

Yeah, it's in a 401k deferred comp.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

And Ira?

[C]

Yeah, got it. So you can withdraw without penalty. You'll just owe taxes on the amount you withdraw.

[E]

Correct.

[C]

So the question is, if you deplete 2.7 down to 2.3, will you still be able to retire with dignity when you want to? Does that change your retirement plans?

[E]

Yeah, I probably have to work another year and a half to do this.

[C]

Okay, so there's the trade off. I'm willing to rebuild and eat the cost of withdrawing that. Paying the taxes, losing the future growth of that 400,000 in order to stay where I'm at and rebuild and not have a mortgage. Am I understanding that you'll still have the 631 mortgage?

[E]

Yeah, I'll still have the 631 mortgage on top of the rebuild.

[B]

Okay, I misunderstood. I'm sorry. Okay, so the 400.

[E]

Is that clear?

[B]

Gotcha. Okay.

[C]

How much do you have in savings now?

[E]

In savings? About 300k.

[C]

Oh, nice. What's the 300k for?

[E]

So the 300k was part of the personal property payout. So I don't know if I consider that savings, but you know what I mean.

[C]

It's liquid cash you have access to instead of that you could actually use taken from your retirement.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[C]

Why not take like 250? You have an emergency fund or is that part of the 300k?

[E]

Yeah, we have about 25k in an.

[B]

Emergency fund in addition to the 300?

[E]

Yes.

[C]

So why not use the 300 and only take 100 from your retirement?

[B]

This is what I'm thinking.

[E]

That's definitely an option.

[C]

It would be the only option if I'm going to do this because if you, if you pop in 300 grand, you would have taken or 400 grand into an investment calculator. That money's gonna double every seven years. So at 70, what you're really giving up is not the 400 plus taxes. What you're really giving up is 800,000 because you're unplugging all that growth too. So that's the part I want you to think about. And for that reason, I would use any liquid cash I have because number one, you're not going to unplug the growth. Number two, you're not going to pay taxes on that. Okay, and how much do you guys make?

[E]

I make 550. My wife makes 65.

[C]

Oh, incredible. I mean you could probably cash flow this thing. How long is it going to take to rebuild?

[E]

Well, here's the thing. We've got like 300k in ale, which means that they'll pay our living expenses outside up to 300k. So we could probably delay the build, keep living.

[C]

So they'll pay for you to rent. So you have rent free living until the house is done.

[E]

Correct.

[C]

I would do that and stack all of your income. Dude, I would call.

[B]

Just kept getting better and better.

[C]

Randy, I wouldn't touch any of the money. If you guys are bringing in, I don't know, how much are you bringing in a month? What's your take home pay right now?

[E]

About 30.

[C]

30Amonth is your take home. I guess California taxes make you still poor somehow.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So could you live off of, you know, 5 and put the other 25 in savings.

[E]

We could probably live off of 10.

[B]

I was going to say the 5, George. Like, what are you talking about?

[C]

Well, if he's living rent free still in LA though, man, I'm just saying. All right, you guys have no other debt other than the mortgage?

[E]

Just the mortgage. We paid off 170k in student loan fees that I didn't know was accruing interest because I didn't take them out and I didn't understand how they worked. But you guys show taught me about subsidized, unsubsidized. So I looked into it and I'm like, whoa, we're getting interested. You know, even though we didn't have to pay, we were stacking up interest so we paid that off.

[C]

Okay, good. Well, I'm just saying, you know, you put 20k a month in a high yield savings account for 18 months. You have close to the amount you need, that delta.

[E]

Okay.

[C]

And I imagine It'll take about 18 months to rebuild, right?

[E]

Yeah, anywhere from 12 to 14 months is what we're getting quoted. And we're going to start probably in March.

[C]

Okay. Then this, this is my game plan. I'm going to stack so much cash with my future income, and then any gap remaining, I'm going to take out that 300 from that personal property payout.

[B]

You got and leave your retirement alone.

[C]

And then thank us later when you retire with $5 million.

[B]

That's right. So you're not going to hurt your compound interest and you're not going to get taxed. So don't even think retirement. You got too sweet of a double.

[C]

Win situation, especially with your income. Once you buried the lead there going, well, we make, you know, 30k a month. That really helps the situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. Randy, how are you going?

[E]

I appreciate. Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good.

[C]

Sorry for what you've been through.

[B]

You should. And, and my goodness, just so proud of you. And I love the idea that you want to be a part of Altadena Strong. And there's something about that, the community rising up together and rebuilding. That's pretty special stuff. So thanks for sharing a bit of your journey with us. That's, that's, that's crazy stuff, George. You know, I, I was out there in LA about a month ago, went out for a football game with my oldest son, and we drove near, certainly the Malibu area, just because I wanted to see it with my own eyes. And that is not a great situation for a lot of people. Randy's got probably one of the better.

[C]

Situations, Better case scenario.

[B]

Yeah, there's some pretty tough stuff going out there. And I bring that up to say you talk a lot about insurance, you know, and I think it makes a lot of sense right now for you to give just a fundamental, all right, acts of God or acts of nature, whatever you want to call them, they happen at times and it can absolutely.

[C]

You know, wipe out people. Just go, well, whatever happens, insurance will cover it. No, no, no. You got to read the fine print to see what your insurance will and will not cover, especially depending on your state. And so that's something to look into. And so I reshop every year with my independent insurance broker, and she tells me, hey, this is exactly what it will cover, what it won't cover. Do you want to upgrade and get this covered as well? And I go, oh, sweet. I didn't Know that. And so just doing a little bit of research can save you a lot of heartache. Because if it's not covered, you need to know you might be on the hook if this event happens. And so in a state like Florida where flooding is very much possible, they're not going to cover a flood happening. And so people have been devastated when they lose it. And they go, cool, where's my check? And they go, there's no check. This isn't covered.

[B]

It's a great point. You know, I remember watching that coverage that was the most surreal thing I've ever seen, where you could see hot coals literally flying through the air and threatening homes. And I remember thinking, just because of the nature of the work we do, how many of these people, like, once, you know, your home is gone, that's gotta be so. I don't even know. Don't even know how to understand the.

[C]

Grief process on that.

[B]

A lot.

[C]

Just the shock without the financial implication.

[B]

Right?

[C]

But.

[B]

But I remember thinking, I hope they're insured because one of the few things that you could take away from something like that is you go, well, this is the worst case scenario. But here's what I know, because I'm like, george, because I know what my insurance covers, I can at least say, hey, I have some clarity. Trauma plus confusion.

[C]

Yeah, not fun. You got to keep up with what the market rate is to build that house today. That's the part you need to keep up with on your home insurance. Hey, guys, you know those too good to pass up holiday promos? Well, they can be great. But with every spin of the digital wheel, the newsletter sign up the coupon code, you're giving away your data. You think that info just stays with the store? I doubt it. It goes into the corners of cyberspace, where data brokers grab it, repackage it, and sell it to spammers, scammers, and generally bad people. The FTC just reported consumers lost over $12.5 billion to fraud last year. And that's not just a number. That's your money, your time, and your privacy. And that's why I recommend Deleteme, your digital cleanup crew. The Deleteme privacy pros dig through hundreds of these data broker sites. They scrub your info and they keep it gone. Which means fewer weird robocalls, fewer spam Te. And it's the gift that keeps on giving because it's an annual subscription. And Ramsey listeners can get 20% off those annual plans at JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout do it today. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey CodyCamsey.

[B]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. So glad you're with us. 888-255-2225 is the phone number. Love to hear from you. Emily is up in Dallas, Texas. Emily, how can we help today?

[D]

Hi. My husband and I have been married for 14 years, and I have worked in the beginning. Kids came along, I stayed home time. He has always been in control of, like, finances. And I don't even know the basic skills. I never knew the password or how much money was going in and out and all that. And I've asked a few times, and I was not given any access or clear answer.

[C]

So what's his answer been? When you share this very calmly and say, hey, I've never really been involved. I'd love to learn. I'd love to be part of this. What does he say?

[D]

Just like, never showing me how to do it.

[C]

You know, is it defensive? Is it combative? Does he just shut it down? Does he go, you shouldn't need to worry about that?

[D]

He's just like, you know, just like a very vague answer. Like, he would just not like, show me. Okay, this is the password. This is how you do it, you know, this is what. So just like, never showing it.

[C]

And how does that make you feel?

[D]

Not equal.

[B]

Have you told him this?

[F]

Huh?

[B]

Have you told him that?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And how does he. How does he respond to that?

[D]

His response is like, oh, I have always showed you you don't want to learn.

[C]

But you're telling him you do. And so you know what? Back in the past, I haven't wanted to learn, and that's changed now. I want to be more involved. Can you show me? It's different than saying, give me the passwords now. I think that's a different conversation, and I think that is part of it. My wife has access to all of our accounts, but usually she doesn't even bother with the password. She just goes, hey, can you tell me what we have in savings? And I show her, and she goes, oh, okay. And that's it. And so there's total transparency. And usually there's one person who's nerdier and knows all the passwords, and that's me in my house. But if you're saying he's controlling, he's not wanting to show you things, that is a much deeper issue. There's either one of two things, maybe both. He's super controlling or he's hiding something.

[D]

Yeah, I don't think he's hiding anything. I think he just want to be in control because he thinks I. He doesn't have the confidence in me. He doesn't think that I can do it right or well.

[C]

But you're not even doing anything right now. We're just saying, can you show me, can I have access to. You're not like making investment moves and moving money around.

[D]

Right, right, right. And so I got a full time job, I'm a teacher now. And I told him that, hey, you know, I will give you whatever money you need, but I just want to keep this account separate only in my name so I can learn how to manage money. Since I have not learned that in past 14 years, I, you know, whatever, you know, I'll just participate. But I just want accountability. I want a transparency. And he's just got really angry and told me that he's removing us from. Removing me from our finances and keeping our finances.

[C]

That's not unity. You don't get married and then decide, I don't want you to be a part of this section of my life, which affects you directly, by the way. And if something happened to him today, you'd be an alert. You have no clue how to access anything. You don't know what's where.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And have you shared that fear on top of you wanting.

[D]

That has always been the case. Like, I don't know a lot of things because I don't know.

[B]

So why do you think, why do you think he got angry over all this?

[D]

It's like, he's like, you know, it's not your money. It's not our, it's not, it's our money. And it's, you know, and I'm like, okay, yes, it's our money. But you know, it's just like I want to make sure that if something happens, like for God forbids, if something happens to you, I have the ability and the skill to manage, you know, the money. And yeah, and it sounds like it's.

[B]

Falling on deaf ears though. Like you say it and all that makes a lot of sense to just about anybody. And he's now gotten angry about it. Now he's shutting you out.

[D]

And he's like, I need to make some changes. I am removing you from our joint banking account.

[C]

So this conversation went from, hey, can I have access? And he went, you know what? I'm removing your access.

[B]

This is like, sit down and be quiet. You have, you have pushed.

[D]

I wanted to Just get an opinion. Like, I don't.

[B]

An opinion on what? What specifically can we opine on?

[D]

Opinion on like, who? Like, I think it's a very extreme.

[B]

It's very extreme.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You guys need marriage, make sure that judgment is right. And I just want to get an opinion of the outsider who doesn't know him and me.

[B]

Yeah, you're right. He's wrong. Something is really going on. And I'm digging here. Is this a him problem or is there some cultural stuff going on here?

[D]

This is, this is a him problem.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

This is a him problem. Yeah. And I.

[B]

What I mean by that is did I come from a culture? Did he get. Did he grow up in an environment? And I'm not talking about, about. I'm not talking about nationality. I'm talking like, did he grow up in a home where this is the way his dad was and the dad before that? And like, it's just because. I guess my point is it feels like there's more to this than he's just controlling. Now, I could be wrong, but that's what I mean is that's all he's ever known.

[D]

When I. Right. When I look at his parents, his parents both manage things equally.

[B]

Okay, gotcha.

[D]

And so. Yeah. And I don't see the same pattern in them.

[B]

Well, okay. The reason I ask that is because that tells me something. That tells me this is he's got control issue problems.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not, it's not cultural. In other words, his environment growing up, he's now doing this.

[C]

How do you spend money? I'm curious, does he. Is he upset when you spend money? Is there. You guys, I'm guessing there's no budget to be spoken of, but if you went and spent $100 anywhere you wanted.

[D]

I give him it. I give him. I give him. I tell him everything. $10 I spend. I tell him everything. He will, however, go ahead and, you know, buy an expensive thing without even asking me. He did that thousand dollar purchase, didn't even ask me.

[C]

What did he buy.

[D]

He bought like, you know, like outdoor something.

[C]

How would you know if he made a $10,000 purchase?

[D]

Yeah, I wouldn't know.

[C]

How would you know if he went into $50,000 worth of debt?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Do you guys have debt that you know of?

[D]

I mean, we have a little bit of credit card debt, like a little bit of, you know, I don't, I. He's not that reckless, but. But it's just like, I feel like, you know, he just want to have control in certain areas. And he just doesn't want me to.

[B]

This isn't just money.

[D]

Any kind of independence?

[B]

Not at all. He wants. He wants you to be seen sometimes and definitely not heard.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. He wants to give me just a little bit of, you know, freedom to say that, oh, I'm a good husband, you know?

[B]

Well, I got. I got bad news for you. This is a. This needs deep counseling and a real professional. But if he acted the way he did over you. Just saying. Hey, I'd like to be involved in our accounts. I don't know how he's going to act to the old marriage therapy request. Yeah, I hate to say it, but you're gonna have to draw some lines.

[C]

And right now, you might need to go solo.

[D]

Yeah, I think that's where we are headed, actually. We are headed to the counseling and because I'm being told that I have issues. Not him.

[C]

That's called gaslighting.

[B]

Oh, bless.

[A]

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[B]

All right. Nick is joining us in George Campbell's old neck of the woods, Boston, Massachusetts. I feel like you should welcome into the air Boston style.

[C]

Hey, Nick. What's up, my guy?

[E]

Howdy. How are you guys doing?

[C]

Funniest thing is, almost nobody in Boston has the accent right. Very disappointing.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

How can we help, Nick?

[E]

No, we hate it. So, my mom recently passed.

[C]

Oh. And how recently?

[E]

Thank you. About two months ago.

[B]

Oh, dude.

[E]

Oof. Yes. And she worked for the state and I inherited $340,000. And at that time everything is very disorganized. She doesn't have, she didn't have a will. So I ended up becoming the voluntary administrator because she doesn't have a lot of assets. So the only thing that's getting distributed is life insurance. And now we found out there's a pension as well. And when I came to the $340,000, I was being pressured to divide it up between my two younger sisters. So my mom had me when she was a teenager, got the state job, signed up this paperwork for the life insurance back in 2000 and probably forgot about it. And she has the pension that she's divvied up between my siblings, my two sisters and myself. So now I'm being pressured to divvy up this money and I was on board for that.

[B]

Who's pressuring you?

[E]

My grandfather and my mother's ex boyfriend.

[B]

Your grandfather, which is presumably your mom's dad.

[E]

Dad, yes.

[B]

And then the ex boyfriend.

[E]

Yeah. So my mom originally wanted my youngest sister, the 16 year old, to go and live with him instead of her father because he's not that great of a man. He ended up abusing me and her when we were younger.

[B]

Oh man.

[E]

So. And he financially abused me. So that was the other thing is she doesn't want him having access to my sister's money.

[B]

Okay, I interrupted you, sorry. So you were saying? I'm feeling pressure, but I'm feeling pressure.

[E]

But I did want to give them money. And then we were taking care of my mom's dog and the dog attacked me and my two year old son. We had to go to the hospital. It was a really traumatic event. Like honestly, worst experience in my life. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. And I wasn't met with any humility or even care for my son. They were making accusations that I instigated the dog attack after it was proven that I didn't make it up.

[B]

The sisters. At first the sisters were.

[E]

Yes, the sisters.

[B]

And, and I'm sorry, did you say a moment ago I didn't want to give them money or I did want to.

[E]

I did.

[B]

You did want to.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

And then the dog. Dog incident happens. They treat you like crap.

[E]

Yeah. And then it just like is a mirroring of my entire childhood where I'm treated like crap by everyone and I just, I don't want to give someone 100 plus thousand dollars to treat me like crap the rest of my life. Especially when like literally weeks ago I was trying to figure out how I'm going to put food on the table. Like I run a small business and it's really tough this year. You know, I run a service based industry, it's a luxury service to be honest with you, washing windows. So not many people have that money in their pocket this year. So kind of struggling and then we come into this money and I'm going to divvy it up and then I get attacked and they're, they're treating me very poorly, not, not even caring about my two year old son. And then once they find out that there's money involved, one of my sisters has changed her tune and she's now nice and my mom always said that she was two face and my 16 year old sister that I was really trying to like set trust up for has gone like no contact with me and everyone says that she hates.

[B]

Well, that decision got real easy.

[C]

So let's walk through the options here. Number one, you don't give them any money and they continue to not like you. Right. Option number two, you give them the money and then you end whatever is left of these relationships. Correct?

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Because nothing's going to salvage the relationship. There's no world where we're all happy now and they're good people and so you just. Option one, it's going to weigh on you probably to not give them any money and it might make your life more difficult as they continue to make your life a living hell. Or you give them the money and say, listen, this is all you're getting, we're done here. Don't contact me if that's what you want. If you want to go, no contact because they no longer are serving you in any capacity. This is no longer even family. This is a business transaction to the them.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

So you give them each, what, 113 grand and call it a day?

[E]

Yeah, that's what they're looking for.

[C]

I mean, what would you do, George?

[B]

Let's answer.

[C]

I might do it for the peace of mind because it's going to weigh on your conscience and again, in reality they're never going to stop and they're going to just try to trash you, your reputation, your life, come after you. I don't know what these people are capable of. Truthfully, you know them better than I do. But for me going, you know what, this is worth it. I'm writing a check to give me peace of mind that I did what I thought was the best I could do. And because it was no will, we don't know what mom would have done. Right?

[E]

Yeah, well, that's the thing is I tried to, I had like a chatgpt write up a mock will and just try to really specify what her wishes were around my 16 year old sister. And that was met with extreme hostility and they were trying to make me out to be the bad guy in the hospital. And I was like, guys, like I'm gonna have to handle this stuff with family court and probate and all that. So I'm just trying to figure out what mom's wishes are and they didn't want to hear it.

[C]

Well, AI is never gonna figure out what your mom's wishes were.

[B]

Bad decision there.

[E]

Well, no, no, no, I meant write up a will for me to fill in. So like the will was already written up. We could have the notary come up from the hospital.

[C]

This is when she was still alive.

[E]

You're saying this was when she was still alive? Like we had probably so she was still coherent and things like that. And I asked the nurse if she was to have a will wrote up and she wanted to sign it, would it be legal? And they said yeah, as long as his notary was there. And when I brought that up to the other family members and it wasn't to go through all the assets, it was really to focus on my 16 year old sister, what her wishes were around her.

[C]

How old are the siblings now?

[E]

16 and 21.

[C]

Okay. Because I wouldn't be giving a 16 year old $113,000 or I'm not giving.

[B]

Either one of them.

[C]

So I might do this later on when they're adults and say, hey, here's it and have it in a written contract of here's how much you'll get and when.

[E]

Well, now the other thing is, do I put this in a mutual fund and set up a trust for them with conditions, you know, because like I don't want to give a 21 year old $100,000 and I don't have a steward assigned.

[B]

I'm going to tell you something, Nick, here's the deal. I'll give George the final word on it. He's already given his opinion. George is way nicer than me.

[C]

He's about to drop the hammer, probably.

[B]

Because he's slightly more neurotic than me. He doesn't want to have to deal with that. I, I think the trust idea would normally make sense. It doesn't make sense in this case, George and Nick, in my opinion, because the minute you say to them to the 16 and 21 year old one's two faced, the other one has cut you out of their life. And you're going to say to them, you'll get this your 100,000. Your share at this age. And if you meet these moral conditions, they're going to freaking lose their mind and they're never going to get it anymore anyway. And I think your gut is the one you go with here. And I think you were thinking at first, I'll give him something. And now I don't think that makes any sense. And I'm going to go extreme. I think it's extreme. But I think in this case it calls for that. I cut them both out. There's no way you're going to be able to ever figure out what mom wanted. She didn't take care of it. She made it your problem. You stepped up like a good son. You're a good man. You're going to make the best use of that money. Money. I just. I'd be okay, George. I'd sleep very well at night not giving them a nickel.

[C]

And you're sure, Nick, there's no legal obligation here to give them anything. Because there was no will.

[E]

No.

[C]

The courts decided it should all go to you.

[E]

340,000 is all life insurance money from her work.

[C]

And you were the sole beneficiary. And why was that? Why did she do that? Because of your age.

[E]

When she. I was her only child. When she first got the job.

[C]

Okay, so she just kind of never got around to changing it? Might be the real reason, yes. Versus if she was able to today, would she add more benefits? Beneficiaries?

[B]

We don't know. We can't play that game.

[C]

That's the question mark. So. I don't know, man. This is a real tough personal decision. You got two options. I don't think either one is wrong. I wouldn't fault you for either one. But I don't know, Peace of mind is worth something. So I would just think about that. You know these people better than I do.

[B]

You got it.

[E]

Thank you guys for your time.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

Today's question comes from Alexis in Connecticut. My husband and I exceed the income limits when it comes to retirement account contributions. We've heard about the backdoor Roth IRA option, but it seems a bit complicated to manage every year. Are there simpler alternatives or other strategies we could consider?

[B]

Consider?

[C]

I mean, I don't think it's that complicated to manage every year. And if you want help with it, you could use a financial advisor who could help execute a lot of the pieces for you. Are there other simpler alter? I don't think there's anything much simpler when it comes to tax advantage retirement options. Now it depends on what your retirement options are currently. If you've got a 401k, you've maxed out. That's a great place to go, especially the Roth options option. You got the backdoor Roth IRA option. There's a mega backdoor 401k option that you might have access to with your company. You can check with your HR department, but that one is even a little more complicated. So the backdoor Roth IRA is simply this you contribute with after tax dollars to a traditional IRA and then you convert that to Roth. So it's two steps. And I don't think it's as complicated as you're making it out to be. You said you've heard about it, but you haven't actually done it. So I would do it first before you decide it's much too complicated. There's lots of videos on this online and again, you can reach out to a smartvestor pro on our website if you want help with it. If it feels too complicated, that's what they're there for. To help you understand the stuff and to not make it so overwhelming. But good problem to have.

[B]

Yeah, very good problem to have. And you talking about super megas and.

[C]

Backdoors, it feels like a child.

[B]

I don't know, man.

[C]

What's better? Better, mega or super mega? It feels like we're naming Charman toilet paper.

[B]

It's like, how about we just. How about we just simplify the whole process? Congress. But that's too much to ask.

[C]

That's a lot.

[B]

Carol is up in Knoxville, Tennessee. Carol, how can we help?

[D]

Hello, guys. So I have a situation of I own a home in Iowa and my in laws have been renting it from me for 12 years now. My landlord is retiring and has offered us the house that we've been renting the Same House for 12 years. But I can't seem to get my in laws out of my house. So I want to sell it. But they're not medically or physically able to move on their own right now. So I don't really know what to do. Should I keep renting it to him or should I sell it?

[B]

Well, I feel like the way you set that question up, there's not that secondary option you gave us. Should I sell it? When you can't even get them out of it and it doesn't sound like your husband's much help and then you said they can't get out of it.

[D]

He's told them that they, you know, we want to sell it by this time. By this time? By this time for the last two years.

[C]

Where would they be if they weren't renting from you guys for the last 12 years?

[E]

Years.

[D]

They were renting. Before that, another house.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

We got an opportunity to come down here and we kind of wanted to keep the house as a backup plan in case this didn't work out. And yep, here we are 12 years later.

[B]

Well, so the great news is is that your husband's on board with selling the house. I thought maybe that was going to be an issue. But the bad news is is he won't actually be a man.

[D]

Right.

[B]

And tell his parents that it's time for them to move on. Now, the issue of they can't physically leave, is that true?

[D]

Yeah. My mother in law has gotten really bad where she can't even walk. Now my father in law's had a heart attack. It's 11 acres and he just. He can't do it all himself.

[B]

Right, But I guess what I'm trying to understand is we want them out, but they actually can't leave.

[D]

Right?

[B]

Well, is that true? I mean, you guys could go help them move.

[C]

Like can we put them in like a wheelchair into a van and put. Take him to a different house they rent and you guys do the actual moving process.

[D]

Well, I have even offered to like buy a trailer for them to move into until they found something else.

[C]

Well, what are you charging them for rent right now?

[D]

Honestly, it's been ridiculously cheap. They've only been paying my mortgage, which is now paid off as of. Of five days ago.

[B]

Okay, you guys are being taken advantage of, the more detail we get.

[C]

Do they have enough money to rent elsewhere? That's the question.

[D]

I don't really think so.

[E]

I mean, what is their income?

[D]

500. I honestly don't know, but it's probably roughly 2,000amonth.

[C]

Okay. And they're not going to find rent for $500 I assume anywhere in the area.

[D]

No. No.

[C]

So are you gu. You're going to have to subsidize their rent elsewhere if that's, if that's what you guys choose to do. Because otherwise they're on the street. What are the options here?

[D]

Right. I don't want them on the street.

[C]

Put them in a home.

[B]

Sounds to me like you're holding on to this house and they're going to live in it until they aren't alive.

[D]

My husband says the same thing. My dad and I built this house and my dad passed away in 2007, and I just can't go back there no more. I'm done.

[C]

How old are they?

[B]

No, I get that part. I guess what I'm saying is. Yeah, go ahead.

[D]

They're like 72 and 73.

[C]

Okay. And there's a chance they could live another 20 plus years, right?

[D]

Probably not.

[B]

I was gonna say that's generous.

[D]

They're physically, but physically in bad shape.

[C]

People can live into their 90s, even if they're, you know, they physically can't get around. So I'm wondering, is there a condition, is there a cancer or something that says, hey, this is. This might be ending in the next five years?

[D]

Right.

[B]

Well, I guess my question is as their health gets worse, they're not going to be able to stay in that house anyway. And they'd have to go to an option that's not even on the table right now, but all of a sudden becomes the option. Am I right?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Well, I guess my point is that based on what George and I have heard, even though I hate this for you and I think it's manipulative, it sounds to me like until that becomes the situation and where their health requires them to move out, you're kind of stuck in this situation.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And your husband hasn't taken any initiative, right?

[D]

Well, he's told him several times, you know, we need you guys to find a place to rent.

[B]

Well, I appreciate that.

[C]

He's still not going to get on Google and go search and they're not moving.

[B]

He's told him. And they literally aren't even listening to him. Correct.

[D]

Right. They've tried. And she got scammed.

[C]

Scammed in a rental situation where they gave them a deposit that was fake or what?

[D]

No, they wanted them to go buy some Apple cards and stuff to go see the house and for the down payment.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And she was able to go buy these Apple cards.

[D]

No.

[E]

Okay.

[C]

Okay. So how did she get. No, she didn't.

[D]

She didn't. She. She tried to send her husband, my father in law, and she. They were going to go meet. Meet her somewhere to give him the cards. Oh, he has to carry her to the truck.

[B]

Well, here's.

[D]

Here's what if.

[B]

Unless your husband, I understand, you don't want to go back because there's some kind of pain there with you. That's not why we're talking today. But unless he wants to go back to Iowa and hand hold them, that means he finds the place, make sure they don't get scammed to buy Apple cars or what in the world is going on in Iowa. But unless he, as their son, goes back and cleans this mess up, then you're holding until it takes care of itself. That's what it sounds like to me. So if you guys really want them out, your husband needs to grow a spine and fly back to Iowa and solve this problem.

[E]

Right.

[B]

And if it's not solvable as you're painting this picture to us, then they're staying there till they can't stay there.

[D]

Right.

[B]

And at this point, it's not a financial burden to you? Not much of one other than upkeep.

[A]

Right?

[D]

Well, yeah, yeah, it needs. It needs some stuff.

[B]

Well, we'll do that later. Well, yeah, as long as they're. It's inhabitable by them, don't spend a nickel on it.

[D]

Right, right, right.

[B]

It's a Tough one.

[D]

Yeah, cuz that was my fear too. Because like, I could take out a personal loan and fix it.

[C]

No, whatever you do, do not go into debt over the situation.

[B]

Let this house.

[D]

No, I don't want to do that. Well, because I won't get it back.

[C]

Either you let them stay and you can't sell or you try to get them to an assisted living, senior living, or a rental that makes sense for them financially, but either way, this is going to cost you.

[B]

All right, the Ramsey Solutions Christmas deals are here. Oh, boy. Dave thinks he's Santa Claus, George. And he's not.

[C]

Far from it.

[B]

He's not far from it. Boy, oh boy. This is unbelievable. $13 for our bestselling hard cover books. $12 for the question for humans decks, $7.99 for audiobooks and ebooks. $20 for all of our assessments and so much more. Go to ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store or if you're on YouTube or podcast, we have a link, link to the store in the show notes. Hayden is joining us now from Ash. Excuse me. Yes, Asheville, North Carolina. Hayden, how can we help?

[E]

Hey guys, can you hear me loud and clear.

[B]

What's going on?

[E]

Also, so I'm just kind of looking for some information. So I'm actually enlisted into the Air Force in about three weeks and then I will go to basic training from there. So kind of what I'm looking for is just kind of some, some advice on what should I do while I'm in the service. Just try to get better, better financially and then just kind of, you know, grow it while I'm in. You know, if I do choose to get out after my four years or make a career out of it, I've got a few things. Like I've already got my IRA set up. I've got money in my bank accounts, you know, pretty good on that. I do have a truck that I just purchased. So that is a kind of a debt that I took off.

[C]

I wouldn't say kind of a debt. I would just say it's a debt.

[E]

But yeah, that's kind of just what I'm just trying to call in and ask him for advice on what I could do while I'm in.

[C]

Sure. How old are you?

[E]

I am. Will be 25 in February.

[B]

Cool.

[E]

And what will you be making starting out? I will make about 2700amonth and then I just progress with the rank as. As I go through.

[C]

Okay. Are you living for free?

[E]

Yeah, I mean, I live. I'LL live when I'm there, I'll live for free because I live in the dormitories and stuff.

[C]

Sweet. Okay, so you can make 2700 work and you've got a truck payment now to deal with. Do you need this truck?

[E]

Well, yeah, it's kind of.

[C]

It was a trick question, Hayden. The answer is you do not need this truck. How much was this truck?

[E]

Truck it is. It was 53,000.

[C]

Now tell me, now tell me on why. Why on God's green earth does 25 year old young man who's got a bright future ahead of him need a $53,000 truck?

[E]

So here's what happened. My car had a car. I've had a car for about 10 years and the warranty was about to run out and everything. And I will say this, my family has helped in with the payment so far. And you know, but when I get started and get. Get established into the military, then I will take on the payments. So it's kind of a. It's kind of a little push from my family just because the car, the vehicle that I had was the warranty was gone and then the miles was just gonna get too high.

[C]

I'm still looking for a reason why you needed a $53,000 truck that you couldn't afford.

[B]

You could run for congress. That was such a good deflection, sir, on that direct call question. So one more time. Why does a 25 year old going to the Air Force need a $53,000.

[C]

While he makes $32,000 a year? By the way, O. How much is the payment?

[E]

The payment is 825amonth.

[B]

Oh my word.

[C]

I can't breathe, Hayden.

[B]

And your family's paying all of it, so.

[E]

Yeah, so I'm paying the insurance on it and then they just. Because we just. The payments just started coming out at the begin of this month.

[B]

Yeah. So you don't even know what it's like to experience an.

[C]

You're asking me how to grow your investments. Do you understand how diabolically inverse those two things are? That you're paying interest on a depreciating asset that's almost twice your income while asking me how to build wealth. Do you find this ironic?

[E]

Yeah, it was a concern of mine when the vehicle was coming up.

[C]

Here's how you build wealth. Hey, I'm gonna be honest. You sell the truck while you can and get out from underneath this payment. How much could you sell it for?

[E]

I bought it pretty much brand new. Like it had one owner and it only had like 6,000 miles on it. So I could probably, probably make my money back on it.

[C]

I would attempt to do that. Do you have any money saved?

[E]

Oh, yeah, I mean, I've got, I've got thousands of dollars.

[C]

So how much exactly?

[E]

I've got about 20,000 saved and then I've got some cash, probably 8 to 10.

[C]

Okay, so here's what I would do. I would sell that truck and then take $10,000 and get yourself a reasonable used car. Maybe 15 would be the top end. Limit out the door after taxes is what you're going to spend on this thing, making $30,000. Because you told me your stated goal is to build wealth, right?

[E]

Absolutely.

[C]

So if that's the thing we're aiming at, then we're going to spend as little money as possible on toys and depreciating assets and we're going to get out of debt and stay out of debt. Is this your only debt to your name right now?

[E]

Yeah, this is, this is my only debt.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

No credit card, no loan, no nothing.

[C]

I'm telling you, if you sell this car, get out of debt, stay out of debt, and then you have all of your income at your disposal to actually build wealth with. We have, we can get you a game plan to build some wealth and invest. But right now that $800 a month could have been going into an investment, but instead it's going to Toyota.

[E]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

And so I would get out from this truck and see if you can take it back to the dealership. That, that screws you on the steel. What's the interest rate on this?

[E]

It is 8.24.

[C]

Cool, cool, cool. What if you could make 8% on your money instead of lose it? Wouldn't that be cool?

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

That's what I'm trying to trade here. I'm not mad at you for wanting to enjoy your life. I'm mad because it's robbing from your ability to build wealth for you and your future family. So I would say, hey, mom, dad, thanks for enabling this bad decision. I want out of this thing. You're off the hook for the payment.

[E]

Yeah, I mean, they, you know, they talked to me, talked about it and they was like, well, we can do it, you know, while you're in and then when you get established, you know, you take it. But my biggest thing is I don't have property in my name and I would, you know, we all know how property and the value is and I would love to get started on property as soon as I can. And of Course, with the truck payment and stuff, that kind of puts me. That puts me.

[C]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. All of your goals are in direct opposition to your actual behavior. You're saying, I want to own property, I want to build wealth, I want to invest. And yet we're going backwards. And so I want you to undo that decision as quickly as possible so that you can actually have some money. Because you save 8.25amonth in a savings account, you'll be able to actually buy something one day. But if you continue down this path of taking on a payment, trading it in, getting another payment, then you're going to be broke for as long as you can remember. So I'm wishing you the best, man. But this truck needs to go yesterday.

[B]

Yeah. And then walk the baby steps out. We'll give you total money makeover as our congratulations gift. Let's also give George's book, Breaking free from Broke. Yes.

[C]

Please read the car loans chat, read.

[B]

The Carlos chapter as a follow up. That's good homework. But the point is you're going to have a great chance to live very affordably while you're in the Air Force. And we thank you for serving our country. You're a great American, but take advantage of that. And so saving and investing while you're there, not going into any debt, getting out of all debt now. And all you got to do is get rid of this truck. And by the way, you're going to meet opposition on that because what George just laid out for you is very countercultural. Included in your own family.

[C]

They're going to be laughing when you roll up in that new truck. You get the new to you truck that shows $10,000.

[B]

But I mean, how much do you need any kind of a vehicle when you're on a base?

[C]

That's what I'm wondering. You know, you're just tooling around to the, you know, local Wendy's, I guess.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, catch a ride. Catch a ride with the other guys.

[C]

In their fancy trucks that have $800 payments. That's the way to do it.

[B]

There's the deal. You ride around with somebody else else's. Are we still, by the way, in America? Are we still on the upper end of 700 on the average amount of car payments or has that gone up?

[C]

Do you know? It's over 700 now.

[B]

Over 700?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Oh, okay. I thought it was high.

[C]

And we're. Well, we are. We're actually headed to the amount of student loan debt. We're in equal to car debt. That's what's crazy.

[B]

Did you hear about Trump's 15 year car note? Is that going in?

[C]

I heard a rumbling about this. I could not find any credible sources that said they were working on a 15 year car.

[B]

It was mentioned.

[C]

The latest I heard was the seven year car loan has now kind of been normalized. 15 year car loans I don't believe exist. Unless you're talking a luxury exotic car. You know, that's hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[B]

But it was floating around the Internet when the 50 year mortgage was thrown out.

[C]

Would anything shock me in America today? Why it's going to cause us to be more broke? Why not to have our fancy toys?

[E]

Why not?

[B]

Well, the guy in charge likes the debt.

[C]

He's not scared of debt because they'll just. He'll just bankrupt on it. I guess that's his M.O. what's up, guys? George Camel here. What if I told you that you had thousands of extra dollars hiding in your budget right now? Listen, I know how crazy that sounds. You're thinking, dude, I'm broke. My money's tighter than the middle seat on a spirit flight. But believe it or not, you've got more margin than you think. And our EveryDollar budgeting app helps you find it. In fact, the Average person finds $3015 on average in just the first 15 minutes. That's like giving yourself a huge raise without an awkward conversation with your boss. Now look, this isn't magic. You're not hitting the lottery. This is just your money that we're helping you reclaim and reorganize. And everydollar shows you how to make the most of your of it so you can make faster progress on your goals. So don't miss out on thousands of dollars of margin. Go start everydollar for free by downloading the app in the App Store or Google Play right now.

[B]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. It's the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside and we're happy to have you with us. 888-255-225 is the phone number. Michelle joins us now in Phoenix, Arizona. Michelle, how can we help?

[D]

Hi, guys. Thanks so much for helping me out.

[E]

I appreciate it.

[D]

I guess my question is how do my husband and I get out of $270,000 of student loan debt combined on one income?

[B]

What's his income?

[D]

We make $92,000 a year gross.

[C]

And what are your options for increasing income? Are you able to work outside the home right now?

[D]

So I am a. I've been doing it for 11 years.

[C]

Sorry, what was that?

[D]

Freelance writing. I've been a published author for 11 years and a freelance writer, but a lot of the companies I write for don't pay me.

[C]

They don't pay you?

[D]

Nope.

[C]

What do you mean? Like, you did the work and then the payment never came through?

[D]

More of. They're all saying that there's budget cuts, and if I want to get my work out there, I the right to help people for free or not get paid.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. No.

[C]

Is this a scam? That's. This is not how the world works. Even in the freelance writing world, they set a rate and they say, hey, we'll pay you 150 bucks to write this thing. And then they pay you to write that thing.

[D]

It changed a lot with the last recession in 2008. And I write, but the books don't pay very well for advances in royalties.

[C]

Okay. Are there other writing jobs that you could get because you're saying you're able to work full time, nothing's stopping you from doing that?

[D]

I can work remote. I have a little munchkin at home, so at night I can write. I'm happy to do it. I'm always. I've always done that. But I've even been looking at teaching work. I'm. I have two master's degrees, so I can be a teacher, but I haven't been able to get hired online. Like remote. Asynchronous.

[C]

Hmm.

[B]

Well, okay, I appreciate all that, but there's an old phrase, and I'm going to ask you to finish it. Where there's a will, there's a way. Okay. And I. I appreciate that you've tried to get the online professor. I think you should still be trying for that. I think that's a great idea. But I. I think with all of the freelance. In today's economy, the freelance work, because of your varied skills of writing, there's a lot of different type of writing you can do, and none of this nonsense where you're writing for free, but you may need to get outside of the writing side of things and, and look at what other online work from home roles that with your two masters, with your writing experience, there's a lot of transferable skill there. I mean, you should be thinking in the 50 to $75,000 category at a minimum, with those two masters, what are your master's degrees in?

[D]

English and creative writing. But I have a unique niche that's needed. I actually help kids and teens who are struggling with life issues, such as if their parent died or if they're living with alcoholic parents or if they're struggling with coin. Those are kind of that I touch in. There's not a lot of help for them. And if I don't write for free sometimes or write, then they can't get the information that's needed to help them. So I'm kind of in a. If you do it for free, at least I'm getting the information out to those kids or. But if I stop writing, then the information stops. So that's why it's that I kept doing it. If you're wondering why I keep writing.

[B]

For free, we're not judging you. But my point is, is you can't only do so much of that right now. You need to bring in more income to help your husband. Do you agree or disagree with this?

[D]

Oh, no, I agree. I'm just having trouble finding that. You know what I mean? I've been trying. I've been applying like crazy.

[B]

Well, but it's not about applying like crazy. I'm going to give you my book, the Proximity Principle, so we don't have to describe the entire book, but you have to get into a very strategic system of contacting people. And I'm not talking about applying on LinkedIn or applying online. I'm talking about talking to real people who can make real connections for you. Because there's a lot you can do, but you need to be targeting something in the 50 to $75,000 range. I would take all those masters, all that skill, all that experience, and I would expand. I would put it, you know, if nothing else, put all of your work experience and expertise into ChatGPT. Just for fun, just put it in there and go. What would you suggest? You got to start opening up your eyes to possibilities because you guys need more income now. I want to bring George in. Let's assume we get more income. Okay. George, systematically walk them through what they do.

[C]

So you've got how many total debts out of this? 270.

[D]

I have most of that is my student debt. He's at like 65,000. The rest is mine. And then we also have a mortgage and I have credit cards and we're in some collections right now because everything kind of just got a little out of control.

[C]

Okay, so you've got the majority of it is student loans. And that 270 does not include your mortgage. That's all consumer debt.

[D]

Nope. 270 straight student loans.

[C]

The 270 is just student loans.

[D]

Yep. 250 is our mortgage.

[C]

So you have 250 on top of the 270?

[D]

Yep.

[C]

Okay. What are your monthly bills right now? If you add up, you know, the basics. Food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, and minimum debt payments.

[D]

Oh, four walls. If we're just talking four walls, it'd be 5,400, but the debt are put to, like, 7,500, which is.

[C]

And you guys are bringing home, like, $5,000 dollars.

[D]

Like 5,400.

[C]

Okay. Which is why you're going into credit card debt.

[D]

Yeah, it's just kind of like we're taking our four walls, and then we were trying to pay them, and then it just got into a mess, so we stopped paying the collections, and we're trying to concentrate on the four walls. Like, you know, we're learning from you guys, but it's kind of blowing up in our face at the moment.

[C]

I would agree. I think this, the charity work, passion project stuff needs to stop because we need to cover our own household right now. Do you agree?

[D]

I'm trying to do okay? Yes, I agree.

[C]

I would be finding anyone I know that works at a place that is hiring for any role that I am somewhat qualified for. So you think about content writing, copywriting, grant writing, adjunct professor in creative writing or English. Have you explored all of those? And do you know anyone who works at a place that has those positions?

[D]

Yes. I've been applying like crazy. I've been reaching out for networking contacts. I'm connected to all my old editors. They're connecting me to other editors. I even reach out international. I have some friends international trying to get me at their university so I can teach remote online. Anything you can think of. Like, I'm jumping.

[C]

Can we look elsewhere for now and just do side hustles that have nothing to do with writing just to bring some income in the the door.

[D]

The problem is I don't have any family support, so my husband's on call at work and means no one would be able to watch my munchkin. That's why I have to do, like, remote.

[C]

What does he do for work?

[D]

He is a manager at a facility company.

[C]

And is there any upward mobility for him to climb up the ladder and make more? Make six figures?

[D]

He's been trying, so we've been. He's been up to plan the interviews, but he hasn't. You know, we're still trying, but he hasn't gotten one yet. So we're both trying everything we can think of, and he's been looking at other companies so we've both been networking. It's just kind of a. We're both kind of stuck, but we're trying.

[C]

Yeah, the only variable that can move right now is the income. The debt's not going anywhere. There's nothing to sell off. We can't sell our master's degrees that we paid a quarter million dollars for. So what we got can do is utilize them to get that better job and make more money.

[B]

Yeah. And this is a full time job now. This isn't a. Well, we're stuck. We're trying and nothing's happening. No, it's. Nothing's happening yet. But we're going to continue to move like the mouse in the maze, always moving towards the cheese. Hang on the line. We got the proximity principle is my gift to you. You need to read this. Or if you want the audiobook, we'll get that for you.

[E]

Foreign.

[C]

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[D]

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[C]

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[D]

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[C]

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[E]

Foreign.

[B]

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[C]

Well said. No notes.

[B]

Yeah, Stanley is up in Mobile, Alabama.

[C]

Where George hailed from college.

[B]

Love that Stanley. How can we help?

[E]

Hey, how's it going? I hopefully got a quick question that you guys can answer. Smack a little bit of sense into me.

[B]

We will Determine that, Stanley. We will determine that, absolutely.

[E]

My question is, should I gift the remainder of my daughter's wedding budget back to her? And I can give you a little bit of the background. My oldest daughter from my first marriage just got married. When they initially got engaged, my wife and I, her stepmom, we set aside $10,000, and that was kind of, hey, this is going to be your budget. Budget. My daughter and her husband, they decided that they were going to do a destination wedding, come down here, get married. And so it actually ended up being a lot cheaper. And originally it was going to be about $5,000. My wife and I thought, cool, we can, you know, set aside this $5,000, and that would be a nice little, you know, like, wedding gift, wedding present for them. As things went on, a couple little expenses, you know, with wedding planning, typically, as they always do, kind of. So my wife and I, we stepped in and we said, hey, don't worry. We got some money for this. We'll cover you guys. My wife did a ton of planning for this wedding. She did the lion's share for this, and we never quite really felt like she got a thank you. Then to also add on top of it, my daughter, while not a bad person by any means at all, but there's a few little things, financially that we don't agree with that she does. You know, she finances cars. As soon as she paid off a new car, we were so excited for her. And then she turned around and bought. Bought another one. And so we're kind of sitting there a little uncomfortable with it. But then really, the icing on the cake is she bought a house with her husband and her mother. So the three of them bought a house together.

[B]

And.

[E]

And, yeah, that's something that we definitely don't agree with. And so now we're sitting here, the wedding's all done, and we're like, we now got about $3,500 back, and we're just a little bit hesitant of if we should get this back to her or not.

[B]

Yeah, I mean. Okay, George, I don't know what you're experiencing right now, but I'm listening to the setup of this question, and you finished it. And I'm going, this is not your idea to give her the $3,500 back. You just gave us a great case as to why you should.

[A]

Shouldn't.

[B]

Whose idea is this?

[E]

Well, no, this was the original idea. Now, my daughter doesn't know that there's this extra money with the budget.

[C]

That's a big question. Did you promise them, hey, we have 10,000 to give to you for the wedding.

[B]

Whose idea was. Answer the question. Was this originally the idea if you didn't spend any of it, you'd give her the extra? This was something you and your wife agreed to?

[E]

No, no, not at all. Again, my daughter doesn't know that.

[B]

This I know, but whose idea is this? Was it yours? You said, I'll call Ken and George today and see what they think about the 3500. Was it your idea?

[E]

Oh, yeah, yeah, Absolutely.

[B]

You just talked yourself out of it. I thought in the question sounded like.

[C]

You needed to process it out loud in front of us and a few million people. And you came to your own conclusion.

[B]

Probably.

[E]

Probably correct.

[C]

Because here's the thing. You're not going to have peace about giving them this money. You're going to resent them. And they don't even know you resent them for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And they don't even know the money exists. You did what you said you were going to do, which is help cover the cost of the. The wedding. You did that. You didn't promise them a certain amount. You didn't promise them if there was any money left over, they'd get it. So just hang on to the money.

[B]

Agreed.

[E]

Well, another little layer that I might add in is so I have two more daughters with my current wife that are. They're about 10 years younger than my oldest. So again, wedding planning isn't on the horizon. But we're trying to sit here and we're trying to be like, are we going to be fair and equitable?

[B]

And we. Stop, stop, stop. I can't. I can't. I can't bear it. I'm trying to save you from yourself. This is a separate deal. This, this. You gave her the wedding that she wanted, and there's $3,500 left over. I don't know where fair and equitable comes in. That's my opinion. Now, America may disagree with me, George may disagree with me. That's fine. But I think you drive yourself crazy here. So now, all of a sudden. So now, all of a sudden, if you give her the 3,500, that makes in your mind the 10,000 whole. And so the other two. Well, what if weddings cost a lot more? I don't even know how you did the wedding for 6,500. Listen to George talk. He tells me all the time about the average cost of weddings.

[C]

That's like the DJ alone. The donut wall is going to cost that much.

[B]

Are you with Me, George.

[E]

I will say it was. It was the three families we went in together.

[C]

Got it.

[E]

And so we put up $5,000. So I mean, yes.

[B]

Total.

[C]

Are you guys in a better financial spot now? You have no debt?

[E]

Yeah, we're baby steps four, five and six.

[C]

Right.

[E]

We're great shape. I'm hoping my soft goal is call you back in about five years for one of those millionaire theme hours to talk to you guys then.

[B]

So I'd put the 3500. I'd put the 3500 towards the younger two daughters.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

You know what? I can't believe I'm omitting this, George, but you'll be very proud of me.

[A]

Hit me.

[B]

I have been putting a set amount away above and beyond all the things, because I have one daughter and she's 16 and I hear you talking about the cost of weddings and I'm like, yay.

[C]

And I know your daughter, she's going to want a nice wedding.

[B]

She is. And you also know my wife, and.

[C]

She'S going to want her to have a nice wedding.

[B]

So you know who's been putting money away for over two years.

[E]

Wow.

[C]

I'm proud of you, man. That's big.

[B]

So I would. I'd put. When you. That's what I would do. The 3500. Yeah. Or unless there's debt or anything else.

[C]

Obviously what you can do is use it for your other financial goals and you got time to save. You got 10 years. And so it's up to you how you do that. You may want to invest outside of retirement for a goal like this since you have a long time horizon, park it in index funds, you know, for 10 years and just kind of stack money away as it comes in. And as you feel comfortable, set a goal for how much you guys want to invest per year. And there's no fair. It doesn't have to be exactly what the other daughter got. Because who knows what weddings will cost 10 years from now.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[E]

Absolutely.

[B]

Well, thanks for the call, Stanley. George, this. This brings up a good point. You and Whitney will be invited to Josie's wedding.

[C]

Oh, I can't wait. That's wild to think about.

[B]

So you're going to do your part and get a really great gift.

[C]

100%.

[B]

No. Cheap Jordan Forge.

[C]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

All right.

[C]

No, I'm gonna get her fpu and.

[B]

Then I'm gonna have to have a gluten free.

[C]

That would be nice for your guests.

[B]

To think about their set of items for you. Yeah. So that's why I'm investing now. I'm a little.

[C]

You're hoping the gifts are nice enough.

[B]

No.

[C]

Offset the cost.

[B]

I don't know. I'm just. I think I'm just now weddings wedding myself. Some therapy right here. But it's gonna happen and it's gonna happen before you go. Goes fast.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so you know what I decided? I was like, I'm going to get ahead of this. So. So it's a fund and it's. Guess what? Ain't nobody going to be asking me for more money.

[C]

Well, whatever's in there is what she gets. Is.

[B]

That's going to be nice.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

My point is, is that I'm not planning on that entire fund going to her wedding. But it. It'll. It'll take care of business.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But. Yeah, my point is I'm not getting caught with that deal. No, I'm not getting caught with. Oh, I, I gotta. I gotta come up with more money kind of a deal.

[C]

Well, I'm. However much money change. That's the budget. And if she wants to save up with her future fiance.

[B]

What do you think is. Let's fast forward, let's say ten years from now. What do you think is a reasonable amount for a wedding, George, because you're tight.

[C]

Well, here's my thing. How many people are invited? You invite 250 people. That's going to be an expensive wedding. You got 40 people. We can have a super high quality wedding.

[B]

Let's go 150.

[C]

150. You're probably in for 20 grand in. In this area, minimum.

[B]

Kelly, the producer is saying more. What do you think the number is? Give me a number.

[C]

She's saying 50.

[B]

10 years from now.

[C]

10 years from now? Yeah. At least 50. Keep. Keep saving, Kenny boy. Keep saving.

[B]

Sorry folks, I'm gonna have to step away for a moment and sell some stuff online.

[C]

Ken's about to sell his kidney.

[B]

George, is it me or is it getting hard to breathe in here?

[C]

You are wearing a sweater. I'm gonna sweat through that.

[B]

Chest is tight.

[A]

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[B]

By the way, George and I were just talking for a brief moment. Just a little continuation here for a moment, because I. I think this tradition ought to be brought back. I was joking with George and I said, you know, I've only got one daughter. So once she finds the young man that she wants to marry and he wants to marry her, he's got to come to me and offer, you know, pretty good sizable offering of cattle. You know, I think she's probably worth a thousand cattle. Thousand head of cattle, you know, endless. But maybe I'll do a hundred. So is it goats? Is it cows? I mean, this is a thing that used to happen. George, you looked it up.

[C]

And I had to explain to Ken that's an HOA violation in his neighborhood.

[B]

No, no, I would never take possession of them. I would just immediately resell them. So it's old school, but maybe we should bring it back. When did it end? It never ended.

[C]

There was no single. But I would say hundreds of years ago is a safe bet for good reason. They're not bringing it back and neither am I.

[B]

But it would be fun to kind of look at the young guy and go, all right, here's what we're talking here.

[C]

It'd make me nervous. I'd go, I'm not sure I want to marry this gal because my father in law is insane.

[B]

Oh, boy, that's fun to me. I don't know why we're having a good time. Well, in the lobby here in Ramsey Solutions, across the from our studio, we have a lovely couple, Jose and Maria, if I've got that right. Hi, how are you?

[F]

Hi.

[B]

Where are you guys from?

[F]

We're from la.

[B]

All right. Los Angeles. La, yes. All right. And I guess you're here on the debt free stage to do a debt free screen.

[C]

Yes, absolutely.

[B]

Oh, I love it. Okay, give us the numbers. How much debt did you pay off?

[F]

We paid off $215,000 in four years.

[B]

$215,000 in four years. I love, love it. And what was the range of income?

[F]

So initially we, man, we started off pretty low, but over the course of the years, our income began to increase. And currently we, together we make about 100.

[E]

About 115.

[B]

So. 115. So what would you say you started at?

[F]

I think we started at about, about 98,098.

[B]

So, Mickey. 98 to 115. Okay, very good. And what was the debt made up of?

[F]

Wow. Car loans, refi loans, credit cards, student loans, solar panel. Everything we owned, we financed.

[C]

Because if we can get A payment on this. We're going to find a way.

[F]

Yes, absolutely. Everything that we own, we financed. And. And it just became a regular form of living, a regular part of life. And it became something that was just out of control.

[C]

So what was that point, would you say, when you were like, this is insane. Why are we doing this? We gotta figure out a way out of this.

[F]

Yeah. So we were sitting down, doing our tattoos, and we looked at each other and said, we. While we do pretty well with our income, and yet our money comes in and it comes right out. It comes in. It comes right out, and our debt's still the same, and we're paying bills after bills after bills, and it seems like we're never going to end.

[E]

And there were even moments where we were overdrawn. And I'm like, how is this possible?

[C]

How is it even possible?

[B]

And that was really the truth.

[E]

Turning point.

[C]

So how did you connect?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead, George.

[C]

I'm just curious how you got connected to the Ramsey stuff.

[B]

Well, through.

[E]

Through my wife, really.

[B]

You know, she.

[E]

We had known about the Ramsey show.

[C]

And she would listen.

[E]

I wouldn't, I'll be honest.

[B]

But when she brought it up, I was like, no, no, I don't want to do anything.

[E]

No.

[B]

You know, we're not going to be able to travel. We're not going to be able to go to the World Cup.

[E]

We're not going to be able to.

[C]

Do all the things that we do know.

[F]

And our Disney passes.

[C]

Disney passes, yeah.

[B]

And we even got into this big fight.

[E]

And then finally I was like, all.

[B]

Right, I'll go check it out.

[C]

And we.

[B]

We went to.

[C]

Started taking one of the classes and.

[E]

And that's how. That's how it really began, actually.

[F]

We also had a friend. Yes, a friend, Carla and Edwin Paez, who also came to the show and became debt free. And we saw their debt free scream a few years ago, and we became instantly inspired. And so that's when we decided to do the actual plan. And so the four years that it took us to pay off, we were following the Dave Ramsey's, I guess, program, but intensely with fpu. That was within the last six months that we really did, and we were more aggressively in paying everything off. But I. I think if we had done the plan from the very, very beginning, we probably would have paid everything off within maybe about two years, maybe even less. That's interesting because the program really does hold you accountable and really does teach you the principles that are based on the Bible, which was really convicting to both of us, Right, Amor.

[C]

That's really what got me.

[B]

And when they got to the biblical.

[E]

Aspect of it, I was like, okay, you know what I'm saying? Sold.

[B]

Let's.

[E]

I'm all in.

[C]

Let's do this.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

And.

[F]

And I think the hardest part was probably week two or three, when we were challenged to take a step of faith. And for me, it was cashing out the little bit of savings that we had for our. Our daughter skin, which to us is a huge deal in the Mexican tradition. Right? And we had a little bit of money saved, but then we had this enormous amount of. And so we thought, why do we have all of this debt yet we have a little bit of cash? FPU says put it into the debt. Right. That makes sense. And we thought we were betraying our daughter. Right? And I remember crying and just, like, really debating with him, like, does this have further implications? You know, what is my daughter going to say? And so that was one of the hardest things, because we really had to rely on God for his provision, Right. That his love and value for her was not based on just a ceremony of coming of age, but it was beyond that. And also our faith in that he would provide for something like that. Right. Because he cares about things like that as well. And now that we are in baby step number five, we're in baby step number five. We're actually gonna start cash flowing for her quinceanera. In about six months, we'll be done with that.

[C]

Awesome.

[B]

Good. That's fantastic.

[F]

But Alonso also did a huge sacrifice. Do you want to tell them?

[B]

Yeah. I had just leased an Audi, and I think it was on the third.

[E]

Class where I turned and I look at my wife, and I said, you know what? What?

[B]

We're returning it.

[E]

And she was like, what? And I was like, you just got it.

[B]

I was like, no, we're returning it.

[C]

It's a bad investment.

[E]

That's what Dave Ramsey says.

[C]

I go, the Lord has us covered.

[E]

I don't know the outcome of it, but I know we're going to be.

[B]

Covered, and this is what we need to do.

[E]

And may of this year, I returned it.

[C]

The lease is actually over in December.

[B]

But we finished paying. I'm like, nope, let's return it.

[E]

And they tried selling me, like, four more other new cars and these deals.

[B]

And I was like, nope, I don't want it.

[E]

We're good.

[B]

And, yeah, it was tough, but we.

[E]

Were able to do it.

[F]

We're back to your old Honda.

[E]

Yeah, back to my old Honda. And it's still going good.

[B]

Good for you. So what would you all tell people? The key is to getting out of debt if you could single out one discipline.

[C]

Whoa.

[F]

You want to go first, support each.

[B]

Other and encourage each other, pray together.

[C]

And you know there's going to be moments of frustration. I know. You know, there was times where I'm like, I'm done with this.

[B]

I don't want to do it.

[C]

But, you know, the outcome is great.

[F]

Along with that, I would say also find a community support, because I think the class, again, it made the world of a difference. I knew about the principles of FPU through the show. Right. But it wasn't until we were in the class together with Irene and with Anja that we really held each other accountable, learned from each other. We got on the app and all of those tools made such a huge impact. It kept us accountable. It kept us on track. The monitoring, the graphs, all of those things made a huge impact. And it does give you those rewards. Right? Chemical rewards. I mean, and I know this. I'm a therapist. I'm a.

[B]

All right, listen, speaking of rewards, if we don't let you get to the screen, we're going to run out of time. So are you guys ready to scream? Yes.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

All right, that's why we're here. Here we go. We got Jose and Maria from Los Angeles. They paid off $215,000 in four years, making 98,000 to 115. Jose and Maria, take it away. Let's hear your debt free scream. 3, 2.

[A]

What?

[E]

We are debt free. They are, in fact.

[B]

How about that, George?

[C]

Just from the nick of time.

[B]

We got it.

[C]

What a story. A lot of sacrifice. You know, Jose liked the finer things in life, but they weren't doing fine emotionally and spiritually. And now they're truly free.

[E]

So proud of them, Sam.

[B]

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 17. 9. Love prospers when a fault is forgiven, but dwelling on it separates close friends. And our quote today from Bernard Meltzer, a true friend is someone that thinks you are a good egg, even though he knows that you are slightly cracked. Thank you, Bernard.

[C]

I'll ponder that.

[B]

Oh, that's funny. George Casey is up in Long Island, New York. Casey, how can we help?

[E]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking the call. So I have a heating and air conditioning company that is starting to fail, and I don't know if I should start reinvesting money into it or kind of call it quits.

[B]

Okay, well, first we need to try to identify or do we Know why it's failing.

[E]

So about a year ago, I inherited a property that I started focusing more on than the business and the tech that I had working for me that was like, the senior guy, if you will, has been calling in sick too much. We're losing a lot of accounts. So I've seen it happening. It's not like a shock to me. I didn't wake up this morning and be like, oh, no, the business is failing. But I, you know, when I initially started working on this other property, I knew this was going to start happening. As far as how fast it's happened is a little more concerning to me since he's been, you know, he's kind of on his way out as well. Well, so now, like, you're firing him? I mean, I don't think I'm firing him. I think he's kind of quitting himself. He's been calling in sick, you know, at a two out of every five days, you know.

[C]

Okay. And you're not working really in this business. You've neglected it.

[E]

I, for the most part, you know.

[B]

Was it just you and him doing.

[E]

Like, the back end of it?

[B]

You know, was it just you and him prior to you getting this problem property?

[E]

It was me, him, and then I was training another younger fella.

[B]

So this is a super small business. So the way. So the way you set it up is, should I reinvest in it? And I was immediately like, well, I'm not going to tell anybody to reinvest in anything that's failing until we know why it's failing. And now we know why it's failing. And it's failing because you just literally have not been doing anything. And you got one guy who maybe he enjoyed doing it when you were involved with him, maybe he didn't. Maybe life has changed for him. Whatever. Whatever. But the reality is, is that this company is you. And the thing that's curious to me is that you said, I knew this was going to happen. In other words, I knew the business was going to start to falter if I spent time on this property. So I got to believe Casey. That means that you thought this property was going to make you more money than this business. Is that the logic there?

[E]

No.

[B]

Then why would we knowingly buy and put time and money into something that we know is going to hurt our primary business?

[E]

So this, this company is not the primary business.

[B]

It's about your primary income?

[E]

No.

[C]

What do you do full time?

[B]

Well, that would have been nice to know. What is this, a side hustle?

[E]

Yeah, I mean, I started this about seven years ago. I built it up to a $500,000 a year company.

[F]

Company.

[B]

What's your primary income?

[E]

It's. Last year I netted about. Oh, no, I'm sorry. I had taxable income, about 500,000.

[B]

Doing what?

[E]

Laundromats and real estate.

[B]

Okay, well, that would have been nice to know five minutes ago. So, like, perfect.

[C]

So this is one of several businesses and you're saying, should I try to keep this one alive? No. No, you clearly don't care about it.

[E]

I do. I do care about it.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. If this was a human being, if this was your wife and you neglected her, I said, man, what? I don't. I care about her. I just neglected her for the last nine months while I worked on this other thing. Dude, you don't care enough about the business to keep it alive. And I would not put a dime into it. Yeah, reinvesting is not going to do anything if there's nobody to do the work.

[B]

You clearly care about this problem property. And then you've got. And. And by the way, kudos on you. You got a half a million dollar income that's, you know, just reoccurring income because you've got all these laundromats. So I don't know why you would try to express to us that you care about it. Because you called us going, hey, guys, should I. Should I give this thing a go or not? Which means you weren't. You were on the fence.

[E]

Well, I wanted. In the beginning, I was hoping for just an unbiased opinion regarding what other incomes I had.

[B]

Well, but my point is. I appreciate that, but the reason we wasted all that time and me not be able to give you good answers, because we have to determine whether or not this is a smart move for you to put money in this business. I'm thinking it was your primary income because I didn't have any other evidence.

[C]

So now we know. You don't need the income. You need focus.

[B]

Yeah. You're chasing too many rabbits.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

So what's going on with this property? You inherited it. You put a bunch of money into it. Are you trying to flip it? Are you trying to rent it out?

[E]

No. So the property, inherited. It was in a trust for the last 20 years. The trust finally came due. It was my grandfather's property. He had a Laundromat in there, which I'm currently operating and that needs to be renovated. It was neglected for 20 years. Nobody literally did anything there.

[C]

Okay, so you've been investing into that. Are you doing this all with cash or are you in debt?

[E]

No, this is all cash, and I'm primarily doing it myself.

[C]

Okay, so do you want to focus your time. What's your real question here? Because I would drop this business. What's at stake here if you cut the H Vac business completely?

[E]

Nothing besides $7,000 left on my truck pay.

[C]

You told me you didn't have any debt.

[E]

Well, that's business debt, not personal debt, buddy.

[C]

Casey signed on that. That's Casey's debt.

[E]

Okay. All right. Sorry. The business has 7,000 in debt.

[C]

You have 7,000 in debt so you can sell the truck, right?

[E]

I mean, I could pay off the debt.

[C]

Are you gonna keep the truck?

[E]

Yeah, yeah, no, I use that for everything else.

[C]

Other things. Okay, so pay off the truck tax today and sell whatever equipment that you don't need anymore and just be done with the business. That's a better deal than investing into a business that will continue to fail because nobody's got their eyes on it. And then just put your focus on what really matters, the stuff that you really enjoy that also has the most ROI for you. That's what I would do personally.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. And to your initial question, there's really nothing to reinvest. Um, you just got your senior tech has found other opportunities or feels like he can take advantage of you because you're so checked out. It's one of the two as to why two days a week that the guy's sick. So.

[E]

Well, I don't. I don't know if it's. If it's that really that or if he's actually really having medical issues.

[B]

Well, the fact that you don't know tells me that you're. You're hands off. So reinvesting is your time. So maybe for 30 days you get back involved and you pay a. Attention, and then you see, is this thing worth shutting down or is this thing worth keeping? It's pretty. It's going to be pretty simple. You're so hands off right now. You don't know if the guy's got black lung or if he's just messing. You know, he's just lying to you. You don't know.

[E]

No, no. I mean, I'm not. I see him every day. I talk to him every day. I'm doing all the back end stuff. My. The reason why the business started failing is I stopped doing service calls.

[C]

And you're not going to start is what I'm saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You don't have the time or passion to reinvest and therefore just get out of the business.

[B]

Yeah. Now I'm more convinced now that I'm getting.

[E]

I've also been interviewing, trying to hire more technicians. The van that we have, we have two vehicles. The one is. Has 175,000 miles on it. It has been more in the shop than it's been on the road lately. I wanted to buy a new vehicle to get another tech there. That was the reinvestment part.

[B]

Okay, well, we're taking information as you give it to us.

[E]

It's like, I don't know how much to give without, you know.

[B]

You know what I mean? Well, it's.

[C]

If I.

[B]

When you ask for advice, just future advice for you. When asking for advice from other people, give them all the information at once. It makes it a little easier. George, I'm with you.

[C]

I don't think getting a different van for the work is going to solve this, because you still got to find people who care. And I don't want to work with a guy who's, you know, got one foot out of the business who doesn't care.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I would maybe sell the book of business for what you can get for it, and maybe that'll pay off the truck and just be done, man. Yeah. And you don't need to run 19 businesses. No, you're doing great.

[B]

Sounds like the laundromat business is really good.

[C]

That's the cash.

[B]

Long Island.

[C]

Who would have thought people got to do laundry.

[B]

I got to get myself a laundromat. What would I call it? George would be a good name for my laundry.

[C]

I think just Laundromat. That's what people look for when they look for, I think. Just keep it clear. It's good branding.

[B]

All right. Hey, folks, remember this. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace. Christ Jesus.