You Won’t Win With Money by Accident

Summary

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The Ramsey Show – "You Won’t Win With Money by Accident"

Aired: October 14, 2025 | Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Jade Washall

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers on the foundational idea that financial victories aren’t accidental, but the result of intentionality, perseverance, and clear strategy. Dave Ramsey and co-host Jade Washall field callers’ questions on subjects ranging from predatory financial contracts and navigating family boundaries to practical home buying tips and the complexities of generational wealth. Through real-life stories and tough love, the hosts emphasize personal responsibility, proactive planning, and relational honesty as the bedrocks of true financial freedom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Predatory Leases and Consumer Awareness

[00:41–09:02]

• Caller Nancy shares her experience with a 10-year, $62,000 HVAC lease, which Dave refers to as “thievery.”
• Dave suggests re-examining early buyout provisions, as most leases allow a discounted lump-sum payout.
• Advice given: Save up the needed amount and pay off the lease only if there’s a discount for early payoff. If not, treat it like a second mortgage and pay it in Baby Step 6.
• Critical lesson: Scrutinize contracts, seek legal advice if needed, and always look for ways out of expensive, high-interest arrangements.
• Memorable Quote:

  “A lease is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle—or apparently a heating and air system. You’re getting hammered, but you just thought you were sophisticated.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([07:54])

2. Family Boundaries and Financial Enabling

[11:00–20:42]

• Penelope calls seeking advice about paying her father-in-law’s property taxes at her husband’s request, feeling uneasy about the responsibility and lack of transparency.
• Dave and Jade uncover deeper marital communication issues, emphasizing that the real problem “isn’t the $2,100—it’s the relationship and boundaries.”
• Dave criticizes enabling dysfunctional family “scripts” and challenges listeners to break cycles that ultimately lead to long-term financial struggles.
• Memorable Quotes:

  “He’s more concerned about his daddy’s opinion than he is his wife’s opinion. This is a bad marriage situation for you.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([15:48])
  “If you cannot handle and navigate these kinds of things, you’re gonna be broke all your life writing checks for crap that ain’t yours.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([19:33])

3. First-Time Home Buying: Avoiding Pitfalls

[23:01–32:03]

• Paige calls to ask about costs overlooked by first-time home buyers.
• Dave provides a comprehensive breakdown:
  • Importance of a trustworthy real estate agent
  • Home inspections (focus on critical issues, not minor fixes)
  • Mortgage “prepaids,” escrow accounts, points, origination fees, surveys, title insurance, document prep, and tax prorations at closing
  • Strong advice to avoid buying down mortgage rates through “points” (it often takes years to recoup)
• Memorable Quote:

  “Get a heart-of-a-teacher realtor who isn’t just sniffing glue and walking around with their nose in the air. You need someone who will walk you through every detail.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([23:29])

4. College Affordability and Parental Tough Love

[33:28–42:20]

• Amy asks how her family can fund two kids’ college tuitions when they’re barely covering one.
• Dave and Jade are clear: “You can’t afford private ‘dream schools’—and neither can they.”
  • Advise cutting college assistance after current financial commitments
  • Expose widespread myths that a “dream school” determines success
  • Emphasize working during school, seeking scholarships, choosing marketable majors, and having hard family conversations early
• Memorable Quotes:

  “Where you go to school does not matter. There is no data that says it caused you to be successful. None. Nada.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([39:10])
  “You have to disappoint your children so they don’t spend the next decade being disappointed by student loans.”
  —Jade Washall ([38:10])

5. Marriage, Money, and Transparency

[44:42–51:33]

• Sarah shares her concerns about merging finances with a new spouse who’s been secretive about debt.
• Jade and Dave stress merging accounts as a means to create transparency and accountability, while highlighting the need to address underlying contempt in communication.
• Memorable Quotes:

  “Combining is the only way to get transparency, accountability on where every dollar is going.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([51:33])
  “You need to talk to your counselor about the language you are using towards your husband. Contempt is the primary reason people get divorced.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([51:33])

6. Managing Inheritance & Big Financial Decisions

[54:40–62:00]

• Justin is set to inherit significant assets, including IRAs, Roth IRA, brokerage accounts, and an annuity.
• Dave details strategies for minimizing taxes and maximizing value:
  • Lump-sum the annuity
  • Use non-retirement assets to pay off the mortgage
  • Roll Roth IRA for tax-free growth—touch last
  • Distribute withdrawals from traditional IRAs to manage tax bracket “creep”
• Memorable Quotes:

  “Even if you didn’t do stuff exactly the way we teach, if we can just get you to pay attention—paying attention is everything.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([62:13])

7. Real-Life Debt Free Victories

[66:45–75:32] SHONA & CHAD
[107:53–115:11] JOSE & JANINE

• Both couples share multi-year journeys to becoming debt-free, each facing extraordinary life events (cancer, mission field service, raising children).
• Universal lessons: Perseverance, community support, planning for the unexpected, and prioritizing giving once debt-free.
• Notable Quotes:

  “We never went back into debt. We always had an emergency fund or really great people around us that made sure we never had to want for anything.”
  —Shona ([70:23])
  “Most people just quit. But you just have to get up every day and go and do it.”
  —Shona ([71:33])
  “Intentional and submit. Good words. That is exactly how it works.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([113:15])

8. Big Family, Big Dreams, and the Hard Math

[77:52–84:30]

• Jay, a young father with a growing family and $85K in debt, asks about buying real estate and career changes.
• Dave and Jade urge focus:
  • Marry immediately for legal, financial, and emotional stability (she’s pregnant with twins)
  • Stop stacking up plans—get out of debt, stay on one track
  • Avoid government assistance loopholes as long-term strategy
• Memorable Quotes:

  “If your best plan is figuring out a way for the government to pay some part of your life, you are not going to be successful in this life. Reset your thinking.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([85:21])

9. When Low Income Meets High Values: Creative Income Solutions

[87:03–95:17]

• Lucy calls in stressed about staying home with two young children, living on $70K, and falling into $50K of debt.
• Jade and Dave highlight the need for honest math, an all-hands-on-deck approach (including both spouses working more, even unconventional hours), and the acceptance that “solving your big problem will hurt.”
• Memorable Quotes:

  “You’re in a mess. And it’s an income versus outgo issue. Cutting won’t fix this—you have to pick up income.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([92:47])

10. Career Change, Relocations, and Mindset

[97:17–104:06]

• Lynn is considering moving to Charleston but worries about taking a pay cut.
• Dave reframes her approach: View her skills more broadly, don’t settle for a pay cut simply because it’s a job change, and project confidence in the value she brings.
• Mindset determines outcome—don’t accept “less” out of fear.
• Memorable Quote:

  “If you approach a job interview knowing you don’t need the job, you walk out with the job and a signing bonus. It’s all mindset.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([105:25])

11. Navigating Generational Wealth, Trusts, & Prenups

[117:41–125:49]

• Beth asks about handling substantial family wealth, prenups, and setting up children for success without entitlement.
• Dave shares his family’s approach:
  • Most important: Character and stewardship education for children
  • Large family assets should go into trusts with “bloodlines only” provisions to protect against division in divorce
  • Prioritize spiritual and practical preparation over legal documents for smaller assets.
• Memorable Quotes:

  “I’d spend 90% of my energy on training the child... that they are not the owner, they’re the manager of God’s resources.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([121:43])
  “You’ll know they get that if they feel the weight of the wealth rather than the celebration, like they hit the lottery.”
  —Dave Ramsey ([125:15])

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Featured Debt Free Screams

[67:37 & 107:53]

• Chad & Shona:
  • $336,000 paid off over 17 years — including the mortgage and through two cancer battles.
  • Celebrating increased giving, traveling, and upgraded cars.
• Jose & Janine:
  • $283,218 paid off over 9 years—entire home, now worth $466,000.
  • Nearly $600,000 saved for retirement.
  • Key to their success: “Intentionality” and “Submit to proven plans.”

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Standout Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You cannot win with money by accident. You will not stumble your way into wealth.” – Dave Ramsey
• “If you cannot have hard family conversations, you will perpetually write checks for things that aren’t your responsibility.” – Jade Washall ([19:33])
• “Most people just quit. But the number one character quality of successful people: They don’t quit.” – Dave Ramsey ([115:49])
• “Where you go to college doesn’t matter. 78% of publicly traded company CEOs went to a state school.” – Dave Ramsey ([39:06])

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Conclusion

The episode weaves together practical guidance, tough truths, and intergenerational wisdom to drive home Ramsey’s central belief: Building wealth requires living with intention, setting boundaries, and never, ever being “normal” with money. The stories and strategies offered in this episode provide rich, actionable steps for anyone ready to break the paycheck-to-paycheck cycle and pursue genuine financial peace.

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For more advice, financial tools, and live Q&As, visit www.ramseysolutions.com or listen to The Ramsey Show weekdays.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Jade Washall, number one best selling author Ramsey personality is my co host today. The number here, if you want to talk, is 888-5225 and we're going to talk about you right in front of you. Nancy's with us in Clarksville. Hey, Nancy, how are you?

[Caller]

Good, Dave, thank you for taking my call. Sure. My question is, I have paid off all my debt in step two, but the problem is I got involved in a lease for an H VAC system. The total cost of the system when paid off at 10 years will be 62 over $62,000. So I'm wondering, do I pay it off using the debt snowball method and just get out of it, meaning I'm responsible for all that or just leave it until I do the house stuff?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay. I didn't know you could do a lease on a heat and air system. That sounds like, sounds like you got Attorney General.

[Caller]

And I went to Better Business Bureau and the Attorney General Consumer Protection Department said it is legal. It's being done all across the US So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but it's so bad that they. Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah. Okay, so a lease typically have no idea in this case, but typically would have an early buyout provision because leasing is simply financing.

[Caller]

Is termination.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What does it cost to terminate it?

[Caller]

The cost of the whole contract. No, what you have remaining. Yes, yes, Sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. 47. Right now my lease buyout would be about $47,000. I've paid 15.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now. You had an attorney look at that part also. Right.

[Caller]

I'm getting there. I. Right after I did the system, I got diagnosed with cancer. So I had, I got kind of sidelined for a few years. Now I'm like, wait a minute, I don't want to keep doing this. This is, this is thievery. It's theft.

[Jade Washall]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

But okay, because I mean, I know a lot of equipment leasing, certainly car leasing, and I've looked at the contracts on all kinds of leasing deals. Even employee leasing they have out there now, which is really strange. And every one of those have a buyout provision that is less than the total of payments because you're giving them their capital early, you're giving them their money early. And so they're not collecting interest, so to speak, even though it's not technically an interest rate. And so almost everyone I've ever seen, but I have never seen a heat and air one, so I don't know. My God. Honey. All right, so let's. Let's do two things. Number one, I want you to reinvestigate that part of it, okay? Because as suspect as this whole thing is that part of it. Suspect. So if the total of your remaining payments is 47, a normal buyout provision would put you somewhere in the 30s. And the way you would do that, if that's the case, is instead of paying them in advance, like double payments, like you would on a debt snowball, you simply save the money up. You pay yourself into a savings account and then write them one check if there is a discount for early payout. Okay. And there typically is if there is not. Either way, what is your income?

[Caller]

I just retired from Federal Service, so my income is roughly 2,400.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, this goes in baby step six, then, because it is the equivalent of a second mortgage, and it's a lien on your house, because it's a lien on your heating and air system. And you would pay it off in baby step six when you're paying off the house.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your interest rate on your home?

[Caller]

2.25.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No, no, no bueno there. We leave that alone. Okay. Because if you had a higher interest rate, I would suggest refinancing and taking them out.

[Caller]

Okay. My mortgage balance is 169.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

578.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you get to baby step six, you knock out the lease first. Either way, whether you get a discount or not, because it's more than half your annual income. When a home equity loan or a second mortgage of any kind is more than half your annual income, we move it to baby step six. Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

I've never heard of such a thing. I'm just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, there's a lot of things that I get on the show that this is where I learn about it, and then I have to go look it up later and go, oh, it is a thing. So you know what else? I didn't ask. She said, federal employee I. Clarksville is a. Is a base. Military base.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So these. These may be morons that are preying on our military people.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. That's big. That's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Which makes us, like, double. Yeah. A double negative for this company that does that. So. So if you're. If your son is out there. Mom. And his new job is selling heat and air leases, tell him, don't be a crook. And go do something else with his life. Oh, there we go. There you go. Helped with that. Yeah. Just throw a dart out there into the universe to see if we can hit a balloon. Why not? Yeah, man, oh, man. Because I did have that happen one time. I was ripping on the payday lenders at 800%.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. Oh, gosh. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

A lady called. So my hunt. My son owns two of those stores. I said, well, time to sell them. Quit being scum. He's ripping off poor people. He's oppressing the poor. Read about what happens in the Bible when you do that. It's not good for you. It's not a place you want to be messing with widows, orphans, and oppressing the poor. These are not three things you want to do in the Bible. And. And really just as a matter of living your life properly. Hello. But, yeah, they're scum. There's scum. So, yeah, shouldn't be. Don't be scummy. And then you're safe on the show.

[Jade Washall]

We won't talk about you, we won't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Talk about your kid. We won't talk about you. We won't do any of that. Yeah. So, interesting side note, the lease on a car, and I suspect it's true on a heating and air system, is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. Several publications, including Ramsey Research, have done detailed research on this. And when you run the math out. So you can take a financial calculator and say, this is what the MSRP is on the car, which is what it's calculated on. Here's what the buyout is at the end of the lease. A closed end lease always has a number. After three years, four years, seven years, whatever it is, you can buy the car for 12,000, but it was a $64,000 car or whatever it is. So you've got those two numbers and then you have the number that is the monthly payment. When you put those into a financial calculator, you can figure out what the effective cost of capital is. That's a fancy way of saying the interest rate. However, interest rates are not disclosed on leases like they are on car loans. The Federal Trade Commission requires they hand you one piece of paper with your APR on it. Even if they're screwing you, they have to hand you that piece of paper. And you'll look down and you'll see 38% or 28% or 12%. You'll know you got subprimed. Right. On a lease, you don't have to do that because lease is not technically Borrowing money. But you can run out. But it is borrowing money.

[Jade Washall]

So that cost of capital, there's no cap.

[Dave Ramsey]

No cap at all. And no knowledge of what it is, unless you know how to run a financial calculator. And I've done it on probably 40 or 50 leases over the years. Every time I do it, it comes out between 14 and 17%. And so those of you that are. I got my BMW on a lease because my accountant said that was the smartest way to do it. You're an idiot. You got hammered. You're paying 17%. You should fire your accountant and get rid of your Beamer. You're getting hammered, but you never did any math. You just thought you were sophisticated. Geez, no. You wanted a Beamer. That's what it was. And there's a way to get a Beamer. Very little down a lot a month and very little at the end. Yeah, this is the problem.

[Jade Washall]

Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

We got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family. And if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work, so it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff, Zander and Xander insurance for over 25 years, and so has my family. So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Penelope is in Georgia. Hi, Penelope, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey.

[Caller]

I was calling because I wanted an unbiased opinion. I wanted to know, should my husband and I be responsible for my father in law's property taxes?

[Jade Washall]

I think you know the answer to that. What do you think?

[Caller]

I do. I think I do too, but I can't seem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why does anyone think you are?

[Caller]

I can't seem to convince my husband.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why does anyone think you are responsible for someone else's taxes?

[Caller]

So my father in law doesn't work. I think he has disability, but I think he can work a little bit to cover his expenses.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how does he eat?

[Caller]

I. I don't know how he gets all his money. Like I think he gets some disability. It's not clear to me. I've asked questions. I don't really get a whole lot of answers.

[Jade Washall]

How long has this been going on? How long has your husband insisted on paying these taxes for him?

[Caller]

So backstory his. So his dad's brother used to pay them and he died a couple years ago. So after he died, he started asking my husband to do it. It was his only.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, they.

[Caller]

They meaning I'm sorry, his dad asked.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, him. He started asking his son to pay his property tax.

[Jade Washall]

So he's been doing this.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is your father in law?

[Caller]

He's 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the nature of his disability?

[Caller]

Diabetes and COPD.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and. And he gets. So he gets a disability check from who? Do you know?

[Caller]

I don't know. I've asked, I've asked the questions I haven't received.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long have you been married?

[Caller]

We've been married three years now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So this started happening after you got married?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

But for some reason your husband doesn't think it's any of your business. That's weird.

[Caller]

He just doesn't like to have these uncomfortable conversations.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he doesn't like to have a conversation that involves him explaining to his wife why he's doing something stupid. Yeah, I have that problem too. I don't like explaining to Sharon why I'm doing something stupid. It never comes out well.

[Jade Washall]

Right. How much are the property taxes?

[Caller]

I mean, they're not crazy. They're about 2100 a year.

[Jade Washall]

And are you guys in debt?

[Caller]

We have a car loan and we have. I. I Can kind of consider it the daycare because it's just so expensive. So we have daycare expenses.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your. What's your household income?

[Caller]

It's about 8, 900amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you guys are what, 25 or 26?

[Caller]

No, we're 33 and 35.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my. Okay, I missed that one. Okay. Is your husband the sole heir?

[Caller]

No. So, okay, the property is in the deceased uncle's name and his dad's name. It's like 50. 50. But his dad. Yes, the. He's the only child of his dad.

[Dave Ramsey]

And who's the only child of the uncle?

[Caller]

He has. He has a couple kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And his wife is the wife. His widow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. All right. So at this stage of the game, your best way this turns out is you guys end up owning half of the property.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So what does your husband do for a living?

[Caller]

He is field service technician. He just got a different job and coordinating the field service folks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. I. I have a 10% problem with him spending $2,100 to pay his dad's property taxes in an undefined situation. I have a 90% problem with how he's treating you. Agree this is disrespectful to you. And don't give me the cop out that he's such a wuss he can't have a difficult conversation with his own wife. Grow a backbone.

[Jade Washall]

Well, yeah, because marriage. There's a lot more difficult conversations than this. So if he can't handle this, then good luck to you.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, what I meant was. Well, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's exactly it. It's exactly it. He refuses to talk about it because he knows he's going to lose the argument because he knows he's wrong and he can't figure out how to weasel his way out of this. And he's more concerned about his daddy's opinion than he is his wife's opinion. This is a bad marriage situation for you. Really, really bad. This makes some really negative comments about the quality of your relationship with your husband and his ability to navigate basic relational bear traps. He doesn't know how to work. Walk around them.

[Jade Washall]

It's either that or he. You've said your piece and he wants to do what he wants to do, and he's going to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's also a bad idea.

[Jade Washall]

Either way. Either way, it's not good. Yeah. The problem is not the $2,100 with what you guys make sure you have a car loan. You can pay that off. But this is really A very small part of your world on a month to month basis. So it's truly not the money on this, it's the relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's. It's. You know, you guys can't sit down and talk about this and make a decision. He doesn't even want to look at himself in the mirror on this because it's a really dumb idea. He's paying 100% of the property taxes to get 50% of the property. Hello. Maybe if it all goes right and his crazy cousins don't take him to court and try to get the whole thing later because none of these people did a will either. I was gonna promise you I was.

[Jade Washall]

Gonna sniff that out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. This is so screwed up. So, no, let's say it was all perfect and it was a will and everything else. I'd still tell you to change it. The only way I'm paying property taxes on it is I want it in my name. Go ahead and deed it to me. I pay property taxes on property that I own. That's all. Jade, I'm not paying your property taxes.

[Jade Washall]

I would never ask Dave James.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm definitely not paying your property taxes. Joe. I might think about it. I'm sick. I'm serious. Come on, guys.

[Jade Washall]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just cray cray. So, yeah, the big problem, though, in this discussion, Penelope, is the way your husband is treating you and the way you're allowing yourself to be treated. And so you guys got to get down to the bottom of that.

[Jade Washall]

And that's the point, right? He's afraid if he doesn't pay him, nobody's going to pay him, and then they'll lose property. And so that is the solution.

[Dave Ramsey]

I bet you this bunch figures it out exactly like you want me to pay him. Deed the whole thing to me.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then we're done. Otherwise, cousin Eddie, fess up your half. Just roll up here in your RV with your part of the 2100, buddy, because he got two cousins over there that are getting ready to pick it up because widow aunt's not picking up nothing. She's used to the free ride. Oh, Free ride is the family script. Oh, and you never question the family script in a dysfunctional family because that might be saying, the emperor has no clothes. Oh, we're all crazy. And now we have to talk about it. Oh, God. That's what's going on.

[Jade Washall]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Once there's a family dysfunctional family script in place and no one's allowed to argue with the lines, you just say your lines. And you stay in your lane. You play your part, even if your part is screwed up. And then comes along. Penelope, right? Who comes along worse than that? She called us. There you go. So, yeah, guys, these types of confrontational, they don't have to be confrontational. These types of conflicts they have at their core, confrontation. Discussing uncomfortable subjects is the ability to do that and still remain likable, and still remain loving and still remain kind is the sign of a functional family. And it's also a signal of whether you're going to end up with wealth or not.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because if you cannot handle and navigate these kinds of things, you gonna be broke all your life writing checks for crap that ain't yours. Hello. That's how this works. It works in every family that way. But the families that can figure out a way, and the ones that I've observed that can break the old family script and shift and change, it usually has to do with the faith awakening of a key member of the family. And they inject Christ into the discussion. And they go, we're going to talk about this out loud. We're not going to duck and cover. We're going to be bold and kind and loving, and we're going to be proper and caring. But we're also not going to be a bunch of enablers and act like we can't talk about it. Well, that one's off. Off? That one's off limits. Off limits, my butt. You're my husband. Foreign.

[Caller]

As a mom, I plan for everything. I plan the budgets, snacks, lunches, backup outfits in the car for the unexpected.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, everything.

[Caller]

Because moms handle a million details every day. So don't skip one of the biggest ones. What happens to your family if you're not there tomorrow? You guys, a lot of people put.

[Dave Ramsey]

Off making a will because it can.

[Caller]

Feel a little scary.

[Dave Ramsey]

But here's what we all need to realize. Planning for the future isn't fear.

[Caller]

It's love. And creating a will turned out to be one of the most loving, protective things I could ever do for my family. And Mama Bear legal forms makes it so easy. No lawyers, no stress. Just an online process that you can finish in about 20 minutes. And now my husband and I both.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sleep better because we have taken care.

[Caller]

Of the stuff that really matters. And it isn't scary.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's wise.

[Caller]

It's what moms do. So if you've been putting off making a will, I totally get it. But don't wait anymore, because you're a mom first, which means you're always planning. So go to mamabearlegalforms.com and use promo code RAMSEY to save 20% mama bear legalforms.com code RAMSEY.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our everydollar team is offering a free live budgeting workshops this month. In Budgeting 101, you'll learn how to make a budget with everydollar. Get tips from our experts, even ask your questions in a live Q&A. Plus, you'll get a step by step walkthrough of every dollar's features so you can use the app with confidence. It will guide you through everything in the Ramsey way. By the way, budgeting 101 gives you the support you need to stick to a budget and walk the Ramsey way. Exactly. Right down the yellow brick road, baby. Sign up for a budgeting 101 for free at RamseySolutions. Paige is in Salt Lake City. Hi Paige. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

My question is my husband and I were looking to buy our first home here early next year or middle next year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Caller]

And yeah, my question is what are some things that first time homeowners like usually this, like cost wise, like closing costs, realtor costs, inspections. What are some things that first home owners overlook in the buying process?

[Jade Washall]

That's a really good question.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. The first way to make sure the question's answered is get a high quality Ramsey trusted real estate agent in your corner because they're going to have the heart of a teacher because you're going to forget half of what I tell you in the next few minutes. And when you do, then you've got that person that's the heart of a teacher that can walk you right up through it. Okay. You ready?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You get them@ramsey solutions.com agent and you get somebody in your area that we trust and has been trained by us and they will have the heart of a teacher and they will. They will not walk around with their nose in the air acting like you already know everything. They're going to make sure you understand every single detail. Now. Yes, you need to get a home inspection.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you do not need to take it super seriously. If they say the front porch light is blinking on and off, that's not a reason to walk away from the deal. You can fix a front porch light for a couple of hundred bucks. Shut up. Okay.

[Jade Washall]

I want to know about water. I'm always looking for water.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to know about major stuff in a home inspection. Mold, foundations, heating and air systems that are about to go kaput that kind of stuff, the roof, you always get a home inspection. All right. I'm guessing that you might be getting a mortgage.

[Caller]

Yeah, we're going to do a 20% down payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now then, all of this stuff has to do with mortgages. Number one, you will have to set up at the closing the escrow account. They will call it prepaids, and they'll typically collect about three to six months of the property tax amount and three to six months of a homeowner's amount. And that sets up your escrow account for your insurance and your taxes. And then each time you pay a payment, you add a twelfth of each of those to that escrow account. And when the taxes come due, they pay it from the escrow account. But it's a pretty hefty out of pocket expense called prepaids to set up the escrow. Okay. The second thing is points. If you pay points, you will lower your interest rate. One point equals 1% of the loan amount. Okay. It will lower your interest rate about 1,8 of a percent per point you pay. And it's not worth it. Don't do it. Because in other words, it takes you eight years to recoup your money. So we don't do that one. Okay. The other one that's akin to that, the mortgage brokers a lot of times will charge an origination fee and it typically is one to one and a half points. And so what you can ask for from Churchill Mortgage if you go to them is what we call a PAR quote, which is a little higher interest rate because you're not buying it down with the origination fee or the points, but it saves your out of pocket considerable because all the origination fee is profit to the mortgage broker. And the mortgage broker also makes a profit when they sell the loan. So you can get what's called a PAR quote. They typically will jack your rate a tiny bit around an eighth and a par quote on no points. So if you call me up and tell me you paid a point and a half origination and five points, you know, yeah, you probably lowered your interest rate like 1 1/2% over under market, but you prepaid all the interest. In essence, that's what those two things are. So we don't recommend doing that. I'm looking for a PAR quote on my mortgage. 15 year fixed. You already know the drill. I can tell Paige. Okay. Next thing is you're going, they're going to require you to get a survey, even if it's a stupid Little subdivision lot where it's very predictable. And you're never going to have any trouble with those lines. And the survey is not worth anything because you're not going to even use it to put up a fence. You got to get a different survey to put up a fence. But this is a loan survey. It's typically hundred, maybe 200 bucks in your closing cost. It's one of those mystery closing costs. But the mortgage company simply wants to make sure the house is actually sitting on the lot and not on the neighbor's lot. And I have had those things discovered where the corner of the freaking house is 5 foot over in the neighbor's lot. And we have to kind of do something about that because the mortgage company is not going to loan the money. Oh, and by the way, the buyer is not going to buy the house either, if you got a good real estate agent. So the next thing is, they will require that you buy a mortgage title insurance policy. This is different than the MIP that you're avoiding by putting down 20%. The mortgage title policy is title insurance that if the title is bad, this insurance company has to write the mortgage company, not you, a check to cover if the title's bad or pay off the people that come. So, for instance, one time I bought a house on an investment deal many, many moons ago and bought it from two sisters who had inherited the land. They apparently forgot that they had a brother. And we signed off on everything, and the brother shows up. The title insurance company did not catch that there was a brother in the estate file, the probate file. And so the title insurance company, I had title insurance, ensuring that I had good, clean title. I did not because I only had 2/3 of it. The brother had the other third. They came in, wrote bro a check, and bro went on his way. That's called an owner's title policy. So when you buy the title policy for the mortgage, title insurance for the mortgage company, they will allow you for a few dollars, typically 100 bucks. Again, something like that. You can ask your title company for an extra hundred bucks. You can also get a simultaneously issued title. Exact same thing costs them no more money. That's why they don't charge much for it. To give you the owner's title insurance policy so that if there's bad title, the mortgage company's covered and you are covered. I highly recommend both of those. I would never buy a piece of real estate without title insurance ever. And I don't now. Who pays for the title insurance can change from area to area, and I don't. In our area, it's customary for the seller to pay for the title insurance. And so then you can buy the simultaneous issue for 100 bucks or whatever. But I don't know who's paying for yours. In your case, you'd have to ask your local real estate agent that can tell you all of that. You'll also have a document prep fee that pays the title company or the attorney that's closing it for prepping it. They also, on top of that will charge you a closing fee. As if they didn't get enough for prepping the docs. They also charge you a closing fee, but they're not huge amounts of money. But you're going to look down through there and you're going to see odds and ends of those. And then lastly, you'll see on the closing statement a proration of the taxes for the year. So if you buy the house on the 1st of August, you have four months of the taxes and the seller has eight months of the taxes. Now, have the taxes been paid for that calendar year yet? If they have, the seller's gonna get a credit and you're gonna get charged because they've already paid the taxes through the end of the year and you're gonna own the house for four months that year. Okay, vice versa, if the taxes are closing in August, but the taxes are due in October, you're gonna get a credit for the whole first of the year from the seller for the first eight months and then you're gonna be responsible for for the remaining taxes and they're going to show up in that prepaid escrow account that I told you about. All right, so that's a couple of the things you look for. But here's the point of that whole thing. All this stuff is gobbledygook and it's all lumped into what we call closing costs. And people go, oh, my closing costs were so high. It's like, it's a vague term. Now you can get in there and dig around and understand what each item is and you can select to not do some of the items in some cases can be part of the deal. But everything I outlined for you is pretty standard and you're probably going to do it.

[Caller]

Y'. All.

[Jade Washall]

Do you want to know a game.

[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location product availability in the market. Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? If your private student loans are in default, you need a lender who sees you and meets you where you you are. Why Refi offers low fixed rate plans based on your real ability to pay. This is for private student loans that are hurting. Learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not in all states.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. Today's question comes from Amy in North Carolina. She says, my husband and I have three children ages 13 to 19. We make around 125,000 a year. Our combined take home pay is $5100 a month. We have 5,000 in credit card debt, 5,000 in personal loan and our monthly car payment is 12 $75. That's all their car payments combined. We rent a home for $700 a month. From our parents. From my parents. Our oldest is at her dream college on scholarship, but we have to pay the tuition balance of $1,000 a month over nine months. We have nothing in savings or retirement. How can we pay off debts when all our expendable income goes toward tuition? Our second daughter graduates next year and her dream school is also a private university. We want our kids to go to college. We want our kids to go to the college of their choice. But I don't know how we can pay two tuitions when we're struggling to pay one. Can you help me figure out a plan to make this work? Yeah. Oh man. Oh man. So I hate to say this, but I'm also happy to say this because I think it's going to, it's going to help you. They can't go to their dream schools. They can't go to these private universities because you can't afford them and neither can they. And it's really a simple answer.

[Dave Ramsey]

My dream car is a Bentley.

[Jade Washall]

I mean, come on. I wish I had a G wagon. I don't. So that's kind of what it is. You're gonna have to draw some boundaries here and you're gonna have to say no, partially because you can't afford it and partially because it's not the right. Who cares if they go to a private school? Who cares if it's their dream school, Right? So there's that. That's what you've got to do. And yeah, that's going to free up a thousand bucks a month. You've got bigger fish to fry here because you've got a lot of debt. So that's the first. I would say that's the starting point.

[Dave Ramsey]

I agree with you. I think I would talk to the oldest daughter and say, I have a dream. I have a dream that you got a job and that you paid your thousand dollars a month.

[Jade Washall]

What a life.

[Dave Ramsey]

What happens when dreams come true? Yes, you're going to get a job, kiddo, if you want to go to that school, because I'm cutting you off, effective at the end of this school year. This cannot perpetuate. The second thing is, the second one's not going to school. There's. You can't afford it. And let me tell you. And it's dumb. I'm gonna go $200,000 in debt because they want to go to my dream school. We have interviewed so many college students, like for the Borrowed Future documentary and asked them why it was their dream. Dream school. My friend's sister went there. She said it's awesome. That's how they define dream school. One said, I want to go to Mississippi and Oxford. Why? It's a really pretty town. You're killing me here. You're killing me. Your lack of decision making ability is killing me. And you're going to go $200,000 in debt so they can go this school because I've always dreamed. Let's just say you dreamed of going there because it's a fancy, fancy school. Yeah, like, you know, Vanderbilt. Okay, 70,000 bucks a year, right?

[Caller]

Gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let's just pretend. I mean, Vanderbilt's good school. Yeah, sure. There's nothing wrong with Vanderbilt. It's not horrible. It's got a big name. It's kind of the Ivy League of the South. Not generally until this year. Not very good at football. But they got a good football team this year. And you know, at 70,000 bucks a year, they got a small undergrad. It's about 3,500 population undergrounds, about 3,500. University of Tennessee is about 35,000 and it's 11,000 a year. And you can mow grass and go there and pay for it. Right.

[Jade Washall]

But here's the thing though, she has. This is a long line of bad choices.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Jade Washall]

This is just the most recent one. You guys are I'm guessing in your 40s, maybe getting ready to be 50s, I don't know. But you're still renting. You're still paying 1275amonth for cars. Let's just put that in clarity, Dave. You would rather drive these cars and pay for your kids tuition because your cars are 1275 and the tuition is $1000. I'm just saying if you were going to trade one for the other, there it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll just get rid of both of them.

[Jade Washall]

But I'm just saying this is showing the. This is just showing a lack of clarity on decision making. Yeah, we're still renting. We've got these car notes and. Yeah. Personal loans, credit card debt. You guys have got to change your ways. Not just with college, but so you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Going to have to disappoint your children so that they don't spend the next decade of their life being disappointed by student loans, getting a degree from a college that's worthless. And where you go to school does not matter. There is no data, zero pieces of research that say where you went to school caused you to be successful. None. Nada. They went to a good school. Prove it. What'd they do? Nothing. Nothing, honey. Just like the cereal. That's exactly what they did. They did nothing. Because the formula that makes you successful is called stirring up the person in your mirror. And they'll go find the knowledge it takes to become successful. There's no correlation. None. 78% of the publicly traded company CEOs went to a state school. Not MIT, not Harvard, not Yale, not Vanderbilt. I went to the University of Tennessee. And people that went to Vanderbilt work for me.

[Jade Washall]

Dave, you don't even know where I went to school.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. Where'd you go to school?

[Jade Washall]

It doesn't matter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, there's that one. I know that school. Yeah. Where you went to school does not matter, people. So quit overpaying for where you went to school. That's problem number one. Problem number two is help people have a different dream. And the dream is to get educated. Instead of living your dream at 18 years old, the dream is to put some intellectual power in your tool belt so you can go out there, kill something and drag it home. That's the idea. Okay. It is not. And I just. It just. The trees are pretty. You're killing me. And they have a great football team. Do you play football? No. What's it matter? None of the people that play football there are going to play football at the next level either. So let's just call good God, the college experience. Yeah. And you're $85,000 in debt for your college experience and you learned how to play beer pong. This is dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. Okay? And it's serious about education. It's dumb. That's weird. So yeah, where you go to school matters. Working while you're in school matters. You getting scholarships matters. And choosing to study something that actually has some use in the marketplace, getting a degree in lift left handed puppetry and then saying you were victimized by the higher education system is bull crap. You were victimized by your own stupidity because you got a useless freaking degree and you overpaid for it from a useless freaking university. It's just crazy, you guys. So I believe in education. All three of my kids got four year degrees and in something they can actually use. And by the way, we paid cash. And by the way, it was the University of Tennessee Govall State School. Okay? And so if you want to go to Vanderbilt and you've got an extra half million dollars laying around, go for it then dream your little butt over there. Okay? But I'm telling you, ours didn't have that choice. And I had the money.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just saying. Nope. With a capital in. Nope. Not doing this. So that, that starts and ends the conversation. But you're right, the big deal in this one is it's an extension of a series of bad decisions. Yeah, we're fighting credit card debt. We haven't prepared these kids to go anywhere except apparently they've been told no.

[Jade Washall]

I mean, well, and there's never been a conversation. And I think for me the biggest part when it comes to college, you just, you have to do yourself the service and your kids the service of talking about this early on. Don't save it until, you know, junior year or senior year when it's like, oh, by the way, college. Because that's what happened here. You got to tell them ahead of time, hey, here's expectation. Here's what you know your dad and I or your mom and I are going to pay for. Here's what we're not going to pay for. Here's what you're responsible for. Here's the list of places that you can go. Here's the list of places you can't go. We expect you to work, we expect you to have work, whatever that is, just say it out Loud.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when they're 12. When they're 12. So they can start thinking about it.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, man, I say it all the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the purpose of education, to make you more effective in the marketplace.

[Jade Washall]

Huh? Right? Yeah. My parents told me from the very beginning, you better be good at sports or school because we're. You don't have a college fund, so you better figure it out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

And I knew that that was my. It was on me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Game on. Game on. And I'll just go ahead and stir up the rest of you. A friend of mine that's got a lot of money, he's taking his kid on a college tour. I'm like we talked about, told our kids. Knoxville, where The University of Tennessee. It's over there. Run over and give a look. If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing. Because normal is broke. And I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fairwinds Credit Union. Our friends at Fairwinds just launched a brand new Ramsey debit card and it says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. I love that because every time you swipe it, you're choosing to live differently with no credit card payments and no debt. You see, Fairwinds has been helping people like you ditch debt faster and build wealth for years. They're not trying to shove credit cards or auto loans in your face like the big banks do. And they've worked with us to create the smart bundle for Ramsey fans. It includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account to supercharge your emergency fund, and now the Ramsey debit card to help you stay focused on the baby steps. We're excited for you to try it. So check them out [e-mail] Ramsey that's fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA foreign welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host Sarah is in Virginia Beach. Hi Sarah, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I guess I have a question about debt and merging everything. I'm a new wed. Me and my husband recently got married in December 12, 2024 and I didn't know that he wasn't as financially responsible as I thought. He has I guess been more secretive about his debt. I'm a bit more like open about it. And he wants the merge accounts, but I'm not comfortable with doing it as of yet because he's kind of been very secretive and has lied to me about certain debts. And I'm working on now using, like, your plan to get myself out of debt because I bought a home before we got married back in 2023. I have a car I'm working on paying off, which is supposed to be paid off later, maybe next year, and a couple other few debts. But he has many more that I wasn't aware of, and some that I think he's secretive about still. We're going to marriage counseling, but I just. I don't know how to be more comfortable with merging our accounts together and fear, like, we'll be deeper in debt versus trying to have more assets.

[Jade Washall]

Give me an example. So let's clarify, because part of. Part of the solution to the problem is you merging accounts, because when you merge them, then you can see everything that's going on. Right. There's transparency there. So give me an example of what that deceit looked like. Was it. I asked him how much the. The bill was, and he said it was 300, but really it was 3,000. Tell me an example of what that is.

[Caller]

Yeah. So when we. When he moved into the home out of his rental, it was that he wasn't making enough at the moment because he needed to fil. Finish paying off, like, electricity bills, gas bill, things like that. So I told him, okay, how long did you need to do that? And it was about two months.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so when I was waiting for that time frame, I had got a bill in the mail, and it was from the gas company. And when I had asked him if he paid it, he told me yes. But when I end up calling them, they told me that there was still a balance of $1200 for a gas bill.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when you asked him about that, what did he say?

[Caller]

He told me that it was paid. I never informed him that I called them until a little later, and he told me that he would end up taking care of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, when you said, I called them and you lied you didn't pay it, what did he say?

[Caller]

He just said that I did. It was. It was just from. He was firm about that he did pay it until I showed him, like, the bill.

[Jade Washall]

And then was he like, oh, my gosh, I didn't realize there was still an outstanding balance. We're just really trying to get an. Here's what I'm trying to get an understanding.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you dealing with a Liar. Or are you dealing with somebody who's disorganized and chaotic? Right.

[Caller]

It's more. He. He has lied about many, many things, not just money. It just surprised me. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Three months.

[Caller]

Yeah. It's been, I guess, 10 months now, but three months into. Yes. The marriage, I found out that he was lying. So everything before was being deceived in two separate homes while we were recording and things. And then got married. And now everything in the home, and I'm seeing it more vividly.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so here. Here's. Here's what I'm trying to be clear about, because there is part of this, to Dave's point, where some people are just extremely unorganized with their money. And as they learn to get more organized, things get better and better. And then there's another part of you guys are married, and I'm wondering what the communication sounds like. Because of the communication is. Did you pay the bill? Yeah. And you're keeping it to yourself. No, he didn't. It's this much. Right. That all of that matters in this. In this situation. Now, what I do think is if he's lying and it. They weren't past lives, but there are lies that are continuing on now, and you know about them. And if he's lying in other areas, not just money, then you do have a big problem on your hands.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you have a big enough problem. You need to be in the marriage counselor's office early and often right now. Because your communication style isn't good. Because if at my house, if I said, hey, Sharon, did you pay that? She says, yes. And I went, I'm gonna check. And I call, and they go, no, it's not paid. I would go, hey, I called them. They didn't pay it. I wouldn't wait three days and stew about it. I'd walk in there right then and go, hey, what's up? You said you paid this, right? Like, right then. And she would be going, I thought. I did. I screwed up. Or I was. I was ashamed or I was scared or whatever. But at least we get to the bottom of it, right? Then we don't carry it around for four weeks and then label her a liar, because that's a bad thing to be married to.

[Jade Washall]

And what I'm trying to understand from the beginning of your call is you're saying, now he wants to combine money, but you're the one who's afraid to. So I'm trying to understand if he's trying to make it right by saying, okay, let's just put Everything together. Then I don't have to try to, you know, keep something over here while you have it over here. But you're saying now I don't feel comfortable doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So are you too late? You're married, right?

[Jade Washall]

Are you worried? What can he do? What do you think he's gonna do if you combine finances. Let me ask that question.

[Caller]

I think he's gonna spend more because I'm like, what is the term people use? Like the breadwinner? So I make majority of the funds he helps pay. Like, since we didn't have a merge account, he would just send me, like.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he make? What does he make?

[Caller]

That's another thing. He's kind of private about that, too. So he works for a cable company, and it's supposed to be, quote, unquote, $12 an hour, but they have a point system. So week to week, sometimes he says he makes $500, sometimes it's only 300.

[Jade Washall]

So would he be direct deposited into your joint account then? If you combine finances, is it, hey, now we direct deposit all of our paychecks into this account. Not. You get paid and then put money into a merge account. All direct deposits go into the same account. That's how it works. And that's the only way we're doing it right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then we know what he's making. And what do you make?

[Caller]

So I make 62,000 and some change a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long did y' all date before you got married? Three months ago.

[Caller]

It was two years. About two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how many times have you sat with your marriage counselor in the last three months?

[Caller]

We've been going consistently. It's like once every three weeks. And now he's going one on one with the counselor, and I go one on one with a woman counselor.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, well, that's good that you're doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And at some point, we have to combine that process, too. All right.

[Caller]

He's a bit of a spender as well, so it kind of makes me. That's. I guess that's where it gets me a little nervous.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing. Here's the thing, okay? If you put all of your money into one account and you make a list of all the bills that have to be paid on every dollar, and you both agree to them, and we agree where every dollar of our income is going to go this month before the month begins, he has agreed to his spending level, and you have to before it occurs if he does. Otherwise, you're dealing with someone who can't keep a contract. Now with his wife. And then we got a problem there. That's a different kind of problem. Okay, but you're not solving a spender by staying separate from them. Combining is the only way to get transparency, accountability on where every dollar is going. And you need to talk to your counselor about the language you are using towards your husband. You have contempt all in your language. You're rolling your eyes like you're so much better than him on every subject. And that is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, the primary reason people get divorced when contempt rolls in. So you've got to solve for that or this marriage isn't going to make it. Let me ask you something. Do you believe in helping people and doing the right thing, even when no one's watching? Then you need to hear this. Churchill Mortgage is hiring loan officers, but they're not looking for just anyone. They only want people who believe in serving families the right way. I've been recommending Churchill for over 30 years because they don't trap customers in debt. They don't use slick sales tricks or take shady shortcuts. Churchill offers smart, real world mortgage solutions that align with Ramsey principles to help families win. And when you join the Churchill team, you'll get true mentorship and real opportunities to grow your career without compromising what matters most or mortgaging your soul. So if you want your work to actually matter, this might be your next calling. To get started, go to ChurchillMortgage.com and click the Join the Team button. That's Churchill Mortgage.com because when your work and your values align, you don't just make a living, you make a difference. This is a paid advertisement in MLS ID1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org/housing lender Justin is in Chattanooga. Hi Justin. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you all so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So I'm gonna throw some numbers at you. My wife and I currently have total investments of approximately875,000 in retirement accounts. We owe 390 on a mortgage at 5.875% home estimate. Conservatively, probably 600,000. We are inheriting a windfall from an unexpected death in the family. And I'm going to break that down.

[Dave Ramsey]

For you because that's where the bulk.

[Caller]

Of my question comes in. We are getting approximately 700,000 in a traditional Iraq, approximately $300,000 in a Roth IRA, approximately $100,000 in a brokerage account, $12,000 in an HSA and $150,000, that's in an annuity with two payout choices. One either lump sum, which is what I'm leaning towards, versus leave it in the annuity for 10 years, let it grow, and then there's a payout at the end of 10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so who passed away?

[Caller]

I'm sorry. It was an uncle that was very much in excellent health and it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

A very big surprise. Wow.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry to hear that. But you. We found him. You're the guy that had the rich uncle. Who knew? Yeah. So, yeah. I've listened to you for 15 years.

[Caller]

I thought I would never be the one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's crazy, isn't it? So you want to, you want me to walk through that? Is that you want. What you want us to do?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the two goals are, one is.

[Caller]

To pay off the mortgage, and then we're also looking at possibly having my.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wife stay home with our children.

[Caller]

So meeting those two goals is kind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of what we're heading towards.

[Caller]

And how do I prioritize these accounts? Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. In terms of using them? Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes, yes, yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. The annuity, lump sum, you can roll that to a traditional IRA and have. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You're the beneficiary on the annuity, that's correct?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's just clear money then. Okay, that's. We're going to use that and the brokerage towards the house, that gives me 250 of it. Okay. The Roth, you can roll to a Roth and it can grow from the rest of your life, tax free. It's the last thing I'm touching.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. 12,000 HSA. I don't remember the rules on that. On an inherited hsa, I suspect it's going to be just like your traditional ira, which under Biden's new laws, the Secure act, he called it inherited traditional IRAs, or 401ks, have to be liquidated over a 10 year period of time because the taxes have not yet been paid on them. And when you liquidate them, you're going to pay income tax on that?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So that one you've got to take out over 10 years. And I would sit down with your smartvestor pro and determine how fast I'm gonna take that out. But I'm gonna take out enough now to get the mortgage paid off. Okay. And probably in the process, if I can't roll that HSA over, it's probably gotta be cashed. Out too. It's small. I'm just gonna go ahead and cash it out just for cleanliness. Okay. So the brokerage, the annuity and the HSA are gone. The Roth is going to move on. We'll take enough out of the traditional plus taxes to finish off the amount to pay the mortgage because only got 250 in the first two brokerage and annuity. Right to. How much was the annuity?

[Caller]

150.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. 250 total? Yes, 250 total. And I need 390. And so you're going to pull some of that 700 out, enough to get to there and enough to pay the taxes that it creates. And then I'm going to pull the rest of that out gradually over time to avoid bracket creep on your income tax brackets. So probably about a five year pull on the balance of that, not a ten year. And just as you pull it, it's just yours, then you can do with it. You don't have to roll it. You don't have to do anything. But that Roth is sweet because it can continue in the Roth. And as young as you are, that 300 could be millions and millions. Just leaving it alone in good growth stock mutual funds. Right now, as far as your wife being at home with your house paid off, which is really all that's happening here. The rest of this is not going to create any cash today to amount to anything. Can y' all live on your income with your house paid off?

[Caller]

We can live on just my income alone. To kind of maintain the same lifestyle that we've had, we would need twelve to fifteen hundred dollars a month, which wouldn't cause a major drawdown on any of this. I wouldn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Counting the house being paid off.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Yeah. Well, you've done a great job of analyzing it. You know exactly where you are. If you're working, not working with Smartvestor Pro, sit down with one and map through what we talked about, see if they agree with me. Maybe I'm missing something. I don't think I am. But then you could pull that 12, 1500 off that seven, what's left of that 700, real easy.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just taxable. It's just.

[Caller]

Yeah, my big, my big concern was not bumping up in tax brackets and paying the government. You know what, what we could use, you know, for other things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're going to pay the government some this year to get enough out to pay the house off.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you might bump your tax bracket this year, but I'm going to go. I'm. I'm not going to worry about this year. In the coming years, 26 and beyond. I'm going to map out what you're talking about and avoid bracket creep, sir, if possible. And you can do that on. It's $15,000 a year is 1200 bucks. You can do that?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. That's all we need, really.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's not going to destroy your life or, I mean, mess up your bracket creep or any of that stuff. And I mean. And you're aware that the bracket creep is just a. It's kind of a math riddle. It's not like if you move from 36 to 39%, I don't know what your income is, but that does not move. 3% on everything is 3% on the last dollar?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So the first, the first number of dollars are already going to be what they are. They don't. That doesn't change. But it just means I'm going to pay 39% on it. So 36% on it. Because I didn't, I didn't put a dial on it. Right. So you want to dial it to where you just get right up to the edge and then don't pay that extra 3 on that bracket jump. And again, somebody that's doing a little bit of tax work with you can help you do that in. Your SmartVestor Pro can get that dialed in. That's very cool.

[Jade Washall]

And it's very good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jade Washall]

I mean, it sucks that someone had to pass away, but to your point, somebody had. The rich uncle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, man. Yeah. And he's already a millionaire, by the way, before we got here.

[Jade Washall]

It just goes to show what you can do to change someone's life when you yourself have your finances in order.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's now worth $2 million? Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Good for him.

[Dave Ramsey]

But he did not become a millionaire because of inherited money.

[Jade Washall]

No, he was already there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Barely. Yeah, barely. And then he just doubled it. Yep, that's what it amounts to. So got about a million three there, I think.

[Jade Washall]

Looks like this guy's not changing his lifestyle hardly at all. He's going to be the same, you know what I'm saying? His wife will stay home, they'll pay off their house, but he's not gonna go out and do something crazy because he's been disciplined his whole life.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've always wanted to buy a yacht for $12,000 a month, and he didn't call me with that question. This guy's gonna be fine. He's gonna got it all dialed in. He knows his numbers, knows exactly where they are. See, that's the thing. Even if you didn't do stuff exactly the way we teach, if we can just get you to pay attention, that guy's paying attention. He knows exactly where he is. He's already had thoughts about every one of these things and he's paying attention. And so you have to be proactive and happen to your money, not have it happen to you. And when you're teaching the budgeting classes, that's what you talk about.

[Jade Washall]

That's right. It's about you for the first time, looking at everything. And you stair step on knowledge. Right. That guy said he's been listening on and off for 15 years. And that's the way it goes. The first step is just getting on a budget and starting to pay attention to your month and go your monthly outgo. That's the first step. And then after a while, that knowledge starts to compound on itself and before you know it, you're just like, you know, the fellow that just called in here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Fully in control.

[Dave Ramsey]

A couple of million me and two and a half million in a heartbeat here. Wow. Very cool. Very cool. So by the way, though, some of you out there that are doing all your talking in your theories and everything, Roth IRAs are not subject to the secure act when they're inherited because they're tax free. And so I have moved everything I have, I'm 65 into Roth at my baby step seven. I heard you answering a question about that the other day. You were correct. You know, you pay up, pay taxes and convert to Roth. Pay taxes and convert with extra money because then it grows not only tax free for this generation, but also for the next generation. And they're not required to withdraw it. They can just let it grow. Like that 300 Roth he had, he can let that one run. The other one, he's got to cash it out because Biden wants his money. This show is sponsored by Better Help. I have awesome friends, I got a great faith, and I have an amazing wife and family. I've also got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet, the times that I've spent with great therapists over the years have made all the difference for me.

[Jade Washall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Washall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Washall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

And if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. This month we celebrate the therapists who've helped millions of people take the next right step. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H lp.com Ramsey if you're out there running around and you're in the Nashville area, stop by and see us at Ramsey Solutions. We're down by Franklin, Tennessee, just a little bit south of Nashville. We've got a big beautiful campus and a wonderful reception area with a little museum in it and free cookies that are homemade. Yum yum. Free coffee that's homemade. Yum yum. Smiling people. And there's always 50 to 200 folks sitting out here watching us do the show. We do it on the glass from 1 to 44 Central Time every Monday through Friday. And among the people sitting in there, among the area where you sit in to watch the show is the debt free stage. People come there to do their debt free screams. It's our favorite thing we get to do around here is to celebrate with people when they have won. The only thing that's more favorite is when it's one of our own from Ramsey Solutions, one of our team members. And that's the case now on the debt free stage, Shawna McCully, her husband Chad. Shawna has been with us for 17 years in the finance and administration department of Ramsey. For a long time we've been watching this family win and now they're here to do a debt free scream. Congratulations, guys. Thank you. So proud of you. Now you actually did this in staff meeting the other day when I was leading staff meeting. I got to be there when you did that. And our staff just goes bananas. I mean, 1100 people screaming when you did your debt free scream. Plus she's been here 17 years. So everybody knows Shonda, right? And loves her and so forth. And you too, Chad. Thanks. All right. So how much debt have you paid off? $336,000. And how long did this take? It took us 17 years. And house and everything.

[Caller]

House and all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Very cool. Very cool. But there were a few stops along the way, shall we say? I won't spoil. I won't spill the beans. I won't. Spoiler alert. I'll let y' all tell the story.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller]

Just a few stops along the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way, we have a new baby. In the beginning of that, we've paid.

[Jade Washall]

Cash for eight cars, two transmissions, over.

[Dave Ramsey]

$100,000 in home repairs, and six years of cancer treatment for two different people. Yeah, these two. These two right here. So how old is Lexi? Alexa is about to be 20 in December. Wow. I remember when Shauna walked into the office and tears run down her face and said, my baby's got cancer. And I went, whoa, I can't breathe. And she said, well, try being me. I can't breathe either. And I'm like, well, we got your back. We're gonna walk with you. Whatever it takes as you need. Whatever you need through this. And for a little while, we had a little bald toddler running around here. And she was cute. She was a cute little bald cancer survivor. It was very cool. The fact that you were surviving made everybody happy. We weren't worried about your hair, I'll tell you that. And neither was she. Yeah, she wasn't old enough to even care, hardly, but. And then we get the word that she's beat it, and it comes the other side of it. And then. So then. So she was three years old. Her treatment went for three years. Then I think five years later, in 2017, I was actually diagnosed with the same cancer that she had and beat. And so I went through three and a half years worth of treatment to get through that. So I'm. I'm now five years out. Yeah. Congratulations. And we walked with y' all through that too. Absolutely. Yeah. It was incredible. And. And watched you change from deputy sheriff to real estate extraordinaire. Agent. Yeah, There we go. And. Yeah. The whole thing. So 17 years, we've been doing this together. Yeah. It's been a. It's been a wild ride. Yeah. And now the house is paid off. The house is paid off. And so that's why we say 336,000 over 17 years. Now, we don't ask what they make because they're 50 of their teammates are standing around, so a little bit unfair to do that. So we asked the rest of you what you make, and you have to tell everybody in front of everybody, but we let them off the hook on that, so. But, I mean, needless to say, quite a bit of cancer in that 17 years. And quite a bit of the rest of normal Life in that 17 years, and you still managed to walk through and get the house paid off. How's that feel? It feels incredible. But, I mean, even through cancer treatment and new cars and unexpected home repairs, we never went back into debt. We always had an emergency fund or.

[Caller]

Just really great people around us that made sure that we never had to want for anything.

[Jade Washall]

Wow. So how do you celebrate what happens Next? You've come 17 years to this moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

So travel. Yeah. Immediately we're going to be getting some new cars. We got to update some of the cars that we're driving around. And so we're going to do that. And then we're. I mean, the first thing that we did after or the first budget that we did when we didn't have a mortgage is we decided that we are going to give a heck of a lot more. So we doubled our giving what we were going to, you know, what we've done in the past and then went back, put a little bit more into retirement. And then. Yeah, now we're just. We're out having fun and we're doing it. Cool. Very cool. I'm proud of y'. All. I think your story is a story of perseverance. Sticking with it forever. Forever. And now you. And now you get here. What's the secret to sticking with it? Because most people just quit. They just throw up their hands and go, well, it's too hard. Yeah. And for us, we had, you know, it was student loans and a mortgage. So we never really got those small wins, you know, like the credit cards. We didn't have credit cards, so we didn't get the little small wins along the way. It was two big, huge numbers. And the only thing that made us go is, like, the reason why. Why we're doing this. What's gonna be on the other side of it. And we just had to keep going. Just get up every day and go and do it. Having a support system here and having friends and co workers who really understood the why was huge. Yeah. Well, they also understood you were fighting a bear with a switch. I mean, it was hard. It was hard. It was a process, man. And the team made sure that everything was good all the way along the way. I watched them take care of y', all, and they did a great job. Yeah. I mean, we have friends in the lobby today.

[Jade Washall]

We have one who paid our mortgage for two months.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have a friend who, in our transmission went out, let me use his.

[Caller]

Car for free for a month.

[Jade Washall]

I mean, we just had people love on us, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, yeah. Yeah. It's the only way you get through it. And that's incredible. Wow. So proud of y'. All. Proud to call your friends, proud to call your family. Glad you're on the team here. And, yeah, you definitely need to do some traveling. You've earned it. You paid the price to win. You've lived like no one else, and now you should buy God, live like no one else. Absolutely. I want you to get her a good car. All right? $336,000 paid off in 17 years, including two different bouts of cancer, several other items that are more normal that went at them, but they stuck with it and pushed their way all the way through. I'm so proud of you guys. Chad and Shawna from Nashville, Tennessee. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one.

[Caller]

We're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Now all you co workers that are in here cheering them on, get back to work.

[Jade Washall]

Dang, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

The whole lobby's full of Ramsey out there. I know. Everybody loves Shauna. Oh, boy. It's fun, man.

[Jade Washall]

Good for them. There's so there. So many people would have given up. They didn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they didn't quit. They didn't quit. And sometimes. And they didn't go backwards. That was the other thing. They never stopped and said, oh, well, you know, we gotta. We gotta buy a car. And we've got cancer and the transmission went out and so we had to take on a car payment. They didn't say that. They just figured out a way to get it through. Somebody loaned them a car, somebody helped them out. Yeah, somebody did that. Sometimes team members, sometimes neighbors, sometimes church members, whatever. And walking through the whole. Whole process. Pretty incredible. Very, very well done. And they're just neat people. They're just fun to be around. They're excellent. And obviously her, again, the team just loves her. Everybody's known about her story and their story all the way for years now. Again, been on our team here for 17 years as well. And that's when they started the process. So very cool stuff, man. House and everything is paid off. It took a while. So what about. What about you? What are you gonna do? Yeah, talking to you. You know who I'm talking to. What are you gonna do? You keep being normal. Have you not noticed that normal sucks? Really? You don't want to be normal at anything gross. No, we won't be normal. Want to be weird like Shauna and Chad, Addison and Alexa.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Top questions people have about online wills. How Do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will? Well, unless your estate is over a million, I would actually say 5 or 10 million, you probably don't need anything but a will. If you have a special needs child, you might want to put a special needs trust in the will that is formed upon your death. And how is that funded? With life insurance, typically, until you've built some wealth. What do you need to start your online will? Well, you need to think about things like who do you want to get your stuff, who do you want to take care of your kids, who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated, the medical power of attorney, and so on. Is an online will legally valid? Absolutely they are. They're valid with your state. By the way, probate law, the law that dictates whether a will works or not, is state law. It is not federal law. And so it's different from state to state. What is required for a legal, for a will to be legal and valid? If you move states and you're residing in a different state when you die, your will from the other state might not be valid. So you need a new one. And so jump on ramseysolutions.com wills quiz. You can find out if an online will's right for you. We can help you with that with the Mama Bear folks. They do a great job and, and, or, you know, hook you up with an attorney even to get your. If you've got a super complicated thing. But most of the time, wills are not that complicated. There's just a few items in there that you've got to get right. And that includes the signature and notary pages, which some states have different witnessing requirements and notary requirements. And that that's the one biggest thing that causes them to become invalid.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, yeah, just jump in and get that stuff done. Folks. Jay's in Phoenix. Hi, Jay, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, I'm doing great, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So I'm 27 years old. My fiance is 29. And we are $85,000 in debt. I make 100,000 a year. She stays at home raising our two kids, doing full time schooling. And we are also going to be having twins here in about five months.

[Jade Washall]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller]

I'm. Yeah, I got a lot going on there. But so I'm looking to get into homeownership after getting out of debt. Of course. Right now we just rent an apartment and you know, real estate's Always appealed to me. I definitely want to start off with like a duplex or a four plex, but before that, obviously, I just want to figure out how we should prioritize paying off all this debt that we have. And also later on towards, you know, my. My early 30s, I'm looking at switching careers and pursuing a pilot's license, which obviously I have to pay about a hundred thousand dollars for, and definitely don't want to go into debt for that. All right, any advice?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I do have some advice. You got a lot going on. So my first piece of advice is just to focus on one thing at a time, or at least whatever the matters are at hand. Because you're talking about a fourplex, talking about flying planes. You've got four twins coming in five months. And the first thing I think on the table is the debt to talk about. But the. The biggest thing is these twins that are on the way, right?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so I agree with you. I think the $85,000 in debt needs to be paid off. However, focusing on the matter at hand is these twins. And so I think the first thing that you're going to need to do is stack up the money as though you were paying off the 85,000, but instead of paying it off, just set it aside. Because we want to make sure that everything is good with your wife, with the twins, with the hospital bill. Everything like that is square before we take all of our income and start, you know, pounding the step with it. Makes sense.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Whose health insurance is covering this?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, that's a great question. So, unfortunately, I don't really have any health insurance. My fiance doesn't either. She's actually in the process of getting state insurance, which is kind of difficult in Arizona. So worst case scenario, if she's not able to do that, then I will just figure out how to pay for an insurance policy for her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Little late. She's already got two babies coming, so getting that covered is going to be an interesting process. All right, so the first thing I would do is get married this weekend. I am really worried about your fiance. She's getting ready to have four children, no income and no husband. That ain't cool. You owe her more than that. So I get married this weekend. She's so exposed right now financially and legally and everything else that it is terrifying to me. I know you think everything's going to be okay, but the only thing I'm sure of as an old man is that everything is not ever okay. Nothing ever turns out exactly like it's supposed to ever. And so you have to put everything in place you can to make sure you play defense as well. And so I'd get married this weekend, I'd get this insurance thing straightened out and then I would do what Jade's saying and then start stacking cash as high as you can stack it. Because if you're ever going to have a problem with a pregnancy, the probabilities are much higher when you've got multiples.

[Jade Washall]

When were you planning to get married? When was it on the books for?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's a great question. So the only reason why we hadn't actually legally got married yet is because, you know, her schooling right now, she's not going to get the financial aid or assistance to be able to do that for free if we get married.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I don't want my wife to get off of welfare, so I don't want my girlfriend to get off welfare so I'm not going to marry her. That's what you just said. Dude, that's not okay. So her schooling is way not a problem. She's full time taking care of kids so she doesn't need to worry about school right now. Anyway.

[Jade Washall]

You said she was going to be a stay at home mom, so that's a moot point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'll send, we'll go back to school and we get out of debt and can save up some money. But if the only way you get money is appearing to be poor by shacking up versus being married, that's insincere. Sorry, I'm going to call you on that one. And so sorry. Not sorry. So yeah, I'm telling you man, for her sake, I'm begging her to force you into the preacher's office this weekend and let's get this solved now then I'm going to pile up cash as high as I can pile it up. And then when babies and mommy come home and we pay whatever medical bills that we don't get covered by this forced place insurance policy and I don't know what you're going to end up with there. It's going to be expensive but you've got to cover those bills. And again, twins are more than twice as expensive as singles and so there's just stuff that's going on there and so we just want to be prepared for all that. Then whatever money is left from that stack when mama and babies come home healthy and everything's good, we apply to the debt snowball. And that's where we listed J smallest to largest pay minimum Payments on everything but the little one. Attack the little one with a vengeance. When it's gone, attack the next one. When it's gone, attack the next one. Every time you pay off one, the payments that you don't have there anymore will help you pay off the next one. The snowball rolls over, picks up more Snow. You're making $100,000 a year if I wrote this down.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, that's right. But he needs to be going live.

[Dave Ramsey]

In Phoenix, Arizona, and you have now five children.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I heard that right. He needs to be going hard in the paint until these twins are born and even after, because this is about to be an expensive life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're getting ready to have an expensive life after they come, before they come, too, and as they come. And so we've got to take care of every bit of that. And then, then when we get out of debt, we'll start worrying about an emergency fund. When we get that done, we'll start talking about a down payment on a house. So you're three to five years out from home ownership. And that's if you work a lot and you get good raises and you're very, very, very careful with your money. That's about where you'll be somewhere in there. And it's doable, it's not impossible. But you're going to have to start making better plans and better decisions than you've made to this point to push these things away. If some of that 85,000 is a $55,000 car you drive, sell it, my friend. Sell it and get your life back. It owns you. You don't own it. But if it's just $75,000 in student loans, you can't do that. So that's the thing, all right? I have now interviewed personally thousands and thousands and thousands of millionaires. Ramsey Research has interviewed over 10,000. I've talked to multiple billionaires that are first generation rich. The number of them that got there because the government paid for some part of their life is zero. If your best plan is to figure out the way for the government to pay some part of your life, you are not going to be successful in this life. Reset your thinking. Success does not come from Washington, D.C. santa Claus does not live there. I know him. He lives in the North Pole. Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt and build wealth. And you can too. But you got to have a game plan and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start now. Take the free quiz and get your free step by step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to ramseysolutions.com start now. Foreign welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Lucy is in North Carolina. Hi Lucy, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. Thank you so much for talking to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So I wanted to reach out about just a situation that my husband and I are in. I don't really know what to do from here. So the Backstory is in 2020, really at the peak of COVID we actually moved to the mission field. We were missionaries for two years in the Dominican Republic and once our two year contract with the ministry was over, we flew back to North Carolina and my husband went straight back to work and I actually got pregnant over there while we were on the mission field. So we came back with another little one and I actually started working in North Carolina as well. We put him in daycare. We quickly realized that the amount that I was making did not justify me working. So my husband and I agreed that staying home, me staying home with our child was the best option and things got a lot better for us just in our marriage. But soon we realized that we were running out of anything that we had left. We were missionary so we didn't have a lot to begin with but we really just don't know what to do from here. He's currently getting his license to be an electrician so he's getting his hours and then he can take the the test to be certified. I also stay home with our second child. We've had another child since then and we use our credit card to pay for things like gas to put in our cars and groceries. We just, we ran the numbers about six months to a year ago and we're in the red. So like we don't have anything left over to put into savings or to put anything extra on a bill. We're about $50,000 in debt. So that's both of our student loans combined. And then his truck payment, which he owes about 7,000 on that. And then we owe about 5,000 on something on. Or, sorry, another 8,000 on our credit card. So that's what that is. But we're renting our little house right now. It's two bed, one bath, so it's very small. We don't live beyond our means. We.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, you do. You just said you did.

[Caller]

What do you mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

You spend more than you make?

[Caller]

Oh, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's the definition of living beyond your means.

[Jade Washall]

What exactly. What exactly do you make? I know you said your husband's studying to be an electrician, but what's he making now?

[Caller]

So his gross income is about 70 grand. He works two jobs to help keep me at home. But, like, when I say that we don't live beyond our means, what I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Meant by that was you're not living fancy.

[Jade Washall]

Right, Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're not. I didn't think you were fancy, but you are spending more than you make. That's not sustainable mathematically. You're. That's why you're calling, because it's freaking you out, and rightly so.

[Jade Washall]

What job were you doing? What job were you doing before you had the two kids?

[Caller]

So make money? When we moved back from the Mission field, I got a job, as at Chick Fil A, actually. But I was their office manager, so I did all of their numbers, I ran, I did their credit, all of their bills. I did. Let's see, I was making 19 an hour.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, what'd you bring home every month?

[Caller]

I don't remember. Okay. I worked 40 hours a week, so, I mean, I can do the math really quick.

[Jade Washall]

Well, the. The reason I was asking is because you guys need money. Like, there's two parts of this equation. When things are tight like this, you can cut everything from the budget, right? But if you're not bringing in enough money, the next part is, now we have to work more. And you said your husband's making. Working two jobs to bring in the 70k. The first thing that you said earlier was when you had the one who was in daycare, you guys said that you weren't making it enough. And I'm like, I have two kids, you know, I know it costs twelve hundred dollars for one kid to go to, you know, daycare for the month. And I'm like, surely you were making over twelve hundred dollars a month. Now with the second kid, I don't know, how old are they now?

[Caller]

So my little. My oldest will be four this month, and then my youngest will be two in January.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so next. Yeah, you do. Next year one of them will be going to daycare or to kindergarten. But my question is, do you. I guess my bigger question is, can you make more than 3,000 bucks a month, which is what daycare costs, or.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you work from home while the kids nap?

[Jade Washall]

That's another question.

[Caller]

Well, I do sell, I do sell sourdough on the side. So I do bring in, you know, sometimes it's a hundred dollars a week, sometimes it's 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

You do what?

[Jade Washall]

She sells sourdough, which, that's great. But I'm talking about.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm talking about solving your big problem. Yeah. Different kind of bread. Like real bread. Yeah. Twenty dollars or a hundred dollars does not solve this problem. No, I'm talking about. Well, you get an extra job that you work from home four hours a day while the kids are napping.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. Or a call center thing that you pick up at night when they've gone to bed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And your husband's not doing that much extra. When does he pass his license?

[Caller]

I believe he has about two years left.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, geez.

[Jade Washall]

Here's the thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to.

[Jade Washall]

I'm going to level set this because there's part of this, if, you know, you called us, there's not going to be a quick fix for this and everything that we're going to suggest is going to be. It's going to feel very off putting and none of it's going to be convenient. So that's part of this that you kind of have to. If you can accept that point and get to acceptance there, then you'll be able to do this. But if you're looking for something that's going to kind of allow you to keep doing what you were doing and not really notice, then we don't have that solution. You're going like, this is going to hurt because you need the money. You know what I'm saying? And that's the hard part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're in a mess. And it's, it's an, it's an income versus outgo issue. And your outcome, as you said, is not fancy. You're not doing, you're not buying coach purses and doing all that kind of stuff on the one hand, on the other hand, you got two babies and only one person in the family's working and he's not making a ton. And so he's making good money but not great money. You didn't call me up with him making 170. Making 70 and two years before he gets a bump.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, how much is rent?

[Caller]

It's 1100.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not bad. Not bad. Okay, so what's his extra job? We dropped. You dropped out. Come back again.

[Caller]

He does trash valet. So he goes to apartment complexes and he picks up their.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why does he not do electrician as his extra job?

[Caller]

I don't know. I don't know that he's ever really looked into that.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a lot more than trash valet. I don't have to look into it.

[Caller]

To know that you'd be surprised. He makes 25 for electrician right now, and then he makes 22 for his trash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah, but I'm saying. I'm gonna guess and say if he helped guys wire houses, because I'm thinking he's running a union track, right?

[Caller]

No, sir, he works. No, he. He does residential electrician right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Yeah, I. I'd be shocked if he couldn't get some overtime doing that or work for someone else to do that on the weekends because he has the knowledge, he just doesn't have the license.

[Caller]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And. But I don't care. He's going to have to work until he's just completely exhausted to get these numbers fixed. And you are going to have to pick up some income of some kind. That's not $20 sourdough bread. That's real money. And I need you doing something that's three, four hours a day and you're making a couple grand a month, and you put that in there, this thing starts to turn right side up and you can begin to pay extra on these things. Make sure you're putting nothing in retirement. Make sure you're not getting a tax refund. If they're taking too much out of his checks and you're getting a tax refund every year. You need to correct those W2s and bring the right amount home, which is more than you've been bringing home. Don't loan the government money all year and then get it back. That's called a tax refund. Don't do that and look around and figure out what else we've got that is. That doesn't fit this scenario anymore. And yeah, I'm with Jade. This is going to hurt. It's going to. It's going to be harder before it gets easier.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Washall]

Oh boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So my husband and I, we currently live in the Philadelphia area and we're talking about moving to the Charleston area once the school year is over. Why issue is that? Because that's where his parents are and his family and we've been up here for 20 years. We kind of want to be down there now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, no family ties in Philly?

[Jade Washall]

None at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

My whole family is East Lake in Maryland. And yeah, no family ties in this area.

[Jade Washall]

Is there a job there in Charleston for him?

[Caller]

He is work from home. So home is where the WI fi is. It doesn't matter where he is. The issue is my job. My job I can't do. My job is specific to my area. I can't do this job in another state. And this job doesn't quite exist in the same capacity in the Charleston area. What is your job down there.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your job?

[Caller]

I'm a support coordinator. I help individuals with intellectual disabilities get funding through Medicaid and Medicare to pay for staffing and supports and living expenses. Expenses and things like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Medicaid and Medicare are federal programs.

[Caller]

Yes, but the. So it's a weird. Like the state pays a certain amount.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

And South Carolina doesn't have the same program.

[Caller]

It doesn't. Doesn't at all. It doesn't have the same infrastructure. It doesn't have the same kinds of jobs. It has similar things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What do you make similar.

[Caller]

I make 50k right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can find 50k in Charleston.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I was gonna say at this. At the lowest, like at the most common level, what is the job? Is it management? Is it logistics? Like, is it project management? What is the act? Does that make sense? What's the task?

[Caller]

Social work.

[Jade Washall]

Social work. Okay, so there's something social work existent in Charleston. It just may not be exactly in the field that you were before, right? Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I've been looking like I'm already like preemptively job hunting and looking. It's. There would be anywhere from a 10 to $20,000 pay cut.

[Dave Ramsey]

You haven't finished your job search yet. I've been to Charleston, South Carolina. It's not 50% of Philadelphia. I'm sorry, what's your husband wrong? Wrong bad? No, no.

[Caller]

My husband makes about 121, 25 a year.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So no, I. You know, but he makes that wherever he goes. And you're going to sell the house? You own a home there in Philly?

[Caller]

We own a home, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm going to make my decision. My flowchart is when I get a job, we move. And so I need to get a job now. And I don't have to take a pay cut to get a job. I disagree. I want to pay increase now. Let's reset our mind.

[Caller]

I'd love a pay increase.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, I mean, let's be realistic. You have a unique set of skills, but the nuanced information that you have is useless there. And you told me and I believe you in Charleston, but the big picture type of information you have and the ability to manipulate programs and pull them together for other people's benefit is a skill not many people have. Now, I don't know exactly where that applies in Charleston, but I want you to start thinking a little bit broader. I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, finding the work you're wired to do. And I'm also going to send the book proximity principle, which might be like our worst case scenario if you don't get the job with the raise. Like I'm suggesting that you get a job close to your old pay with the potential for a raise by getting in the proximity of people doing what it is you want to end up doing. But once we kill the idea that you're going to find the exact program which I'm buying you on that one. I think you're right because I did leave out the part where Medicaid, Medicare, state, half of it state funded, so. And some states are more sophisticated in their application of that stuff than others. So I'm, I'm going with you. South Carolina probably doesn't have that program, but they've got other ones and they've got stuff that's so to the layman looking in from the outside that's so similar, but to you it looks way different. And that's the one you need to be doing. And I don't know what it is exactly, but you have the unique gifting of working with special needs and working with the government program to pull things together, to cause people's lives to be benefited. That's a gift. And not many people can do the things that you do. So I've just got to find a place to apply that that adds enough value that they're paying a measly 50 grand. It's not like you're trying to look for a half million dollar job. It's a $50,000 job. You can make that almost at Target, working 40 hours a week. I mean, it's 20 bucks an hour now at Target. So, you know, that's. I want you to kind of get in that mindset that this is not a, is certainly not a $20,000. I wouldn't accept a $20,000 job. That's a cut. About 20,000. No, no, no, no. So hang on. We'll have the Christian pick up and send you all that stuff. I think you're better than you're giving yourself credit for, but you need to pan back and have a broader vision of how your skill sets can apply. And when you do that, you're going to land the job. And when you do that, you're going to move. And that's how I would do it. Don't set yourself up to end a. We had to move. You don't have to move. There's no hurry. The only hurry is emotions. You're wanting to move. I'll blame you.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm. Once I get my mind already in Charleston, it's hard to do anything. It's hard to do that. But, yeah, think. Think that through that way. Folks, let me tell you something that Ken Coleman and I have talked about for years, and Jade has been in on these discussions. There's something about changing jobs against your will. Oh, you get laid off or your husband moves and gets transferred, so you got to go get a new job or get fired or whatever. It's interesting that the human brain, for some reason we've noticed this with people, immediately thinks that I have to get paid less, that I lost my job and I couldn't find another job, and so I get paid less. As opposed to. You were sitting there in the job, everything's going good, and somebody calls you up and offers you $20,000 more than you used to make, right?

[Jade Washall]

Why can't it be a glass half full?

[Dave Ramsey]

And you go, you go, well, of course I'm going to do that. And so you leave and you go take the new job with a $20,000, $30,000, $50,000 raise, right? But that job was there for the person that does the same job you do that got laid off two weeks ago somewhere else. And they don't think about the $70,000 in her case, $20,000 raise. They think about the $30,000. For some reason, it's something about, well, I just can't do that, and so I end up with less. And that is just a mindset thing. And I remember motivational speaker many, many years ago telling the story. He said, let's pretend that you went to New York City and you were interviewing for a job and you really didn't think you were good enough to get the job. Your confidence wasn't strong. The morning you get ready to walk out of the hotel room to do the interview, the phone rings and it's your wife. And she says, we just won the lottery. We got a million dollars. Don't go interview. Just come home and you go to your, well, what have I got to lose? I'll just go down and talk to him anyway. But now you don't need the job anymore, right? And you walk in and you get the job plus a signing bonus because you didn't need the job. Then you come back to your room and the wife says, oh, you know, we made a mistake. We didn't get the me all. What changed there? Nothing. Except your mindset.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, that's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your mindset changed and how you approached, how you walked in to do the job interview. The way you carried yourself, your voice tone, the pace of your voice, the energy level. You had that last little shine on the shoes. Whatever it was, that's good. What's up, guys? George Camel here. What if I told you that you had thousands of extra dollars hiding in your budget right now? Listen, I know how crazy that sounds. You're thinking, dude, I'm broke. My money's tighter than the middle seat on a spirit flight. But believe it or not, you've got more margin than you think. And our EveryDollar budgeting app helps you find it. In fact, the Average person finds $3015 on average in just the first 15 minutes. That's like giving yourself a huge raise without an awkward conversation with your boss. Now look, this isn't magic. You're not hitting the lottery. This is just your money that we're helping you reclaim and reorganize. And everydollar shows you how to make the most of it so you can make faster progress on your goals. So don't miss out on thousands of dollars of margin. Go start everydollar for free by downloading the app in the app store or Google Play right now in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Jose and Janine are with us. Hey guys. How are you? Good, good. Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you guys live? Live in Ring, New Hampshire, which is about 40 minutes west of Manchester, New Hampshire. Cool. Welcome to Nashville. That's a bit of a haul. Good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off? So we paid off $283,218. Wow. Wow. Good for you. How long did that take? Took us nine years. Good for you and your range of income during that nine years. So our starting income was 112,973. Our ending income was 133, 577. Cool. What do y' all do for a living?

[Caller]

Customer service.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm in sales. Cell packaging. Very cool. Good for y'. All. And is the 283 your house? 283 is our house. I'm looking at weird people.

[Caller]

Yes, you are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why? You've got the T shirts on that say it's okay to be weird. I like it. Congratulations, you two. What's this house worth? So the house is worth 466, 000. I like it. Good for you. And how much money is saved in retirement? We've got 587 saved in retirement. Looking at baby steps, millionaires Way to go, guys. Y' all are so weird. I'm proud of you. Well done. Well done. How many millionaires in your family? 0. 1.

[Jade Washall]

You, Jose, how old are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm 52.

[Jade Washall]

Wow. Way to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good job, you guys. That is amazing. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Did you ever think when the two of you pups got married a couple years back, how long y' all been married?

[Caller]

We're celebrating our 20 year anniversary.

[Dave Ramsey]

20 years ago, you looked down and did you ever think, never? No, no. We kept saying someday. Yeah, but how realized someday wasn't on the calendar.

[Jade Washall]

So what's. What sparked it then? I mean, what caused you from going from someday to today's the day.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I was lucky enough to have a really good friend, Jason Gardner, mentor of mine, who actually shared your podcast with me. We go to the gym regularly. And he said, hey, I think you should listen to this guy. And kind of had me in the car locked for half hour or so so we'd listen to your show. And I made the big mistake. I got. I, you know, got on board and came home and I said, I got this great plan, honey. We're gonna sell your car. You want one of those?

[Jade Washall]

You did it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You did it. I stepped in it big. How long did it take to get your foot out of that? Oh, a while, actually. Yeah, Took a little while.

[Jade Washall]

Janine, I want to hear that from your side.

[Dave Ramsey]

He said, I have this plan.

[Caller]

I want to sell you a car.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I went, oh, no, you're not. You need a new plan.

[Jade Washall]

So how'd you get on board then?

[Dave Ramsey]

What happened? How did you bring that around? How'd you straighten that mess up, Jose? So actually listening to someone else's debt free scream, I remember somebody saying, your why has to be bigger than your but. And I just found that comment to be funny, but it stuck with me. Because we needed to have a strong enough reason for why we were going to do this and why we wanted to get out of debt. And ultimately that reason was we didn't really know anyone who was debt free. We didn't, you know, but we knew that we wanted to do this journey because we didn't want to grow old and still be working beyond our retirement years. We wanted to be able to enjoy our retirement, you know, as. As David, you know, as you say, live and give like, like never before. So later you can live and give like never before. And that was our main goal. Yeah. Way to go, you two. So, Janine, when you all sat down, start Talking about the why. That's when we figured out what we got to do, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

It. It took a little while of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of sitting down and budgeting and letting my guard down.

[Caller]

The wall was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was there. Yeah, sure, sure. That's fair. Well, it should be. I mean, you got. You have to have. You have to go. What, you got another scheme? Yeah, we're gonna have a yard sale. We're gonna sell your car. We're gonna sell everything.

[Jade Washall]

And somehow it was all your stuff. Oh, no. Oh, boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

So great. That is great. Well, I'm proud of you guys. Very, very well done. Who was cheering you on while you were doing this? So we've got our friend Jason, and there was a couple other guys that I was able to work with that are also cheering us on. Mike Leone and a few others. Effingard. And they're. They're actually following your plan now because of. Because of our story. And so it's exciting. Yay. It's spreading.

[Jade Washall]

That's great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I like it. It.

[Jade Washall]

What are you going to do to celebrate?

[Caller]

We're going to have a really good dinner tonight.

[Dave Ramsey]

We are going out to eat.

[Jade Washall]

Go for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you booked the restaurant already here in Nashville? No, not yet. Oh, well, you got to get on it. There's some good food in Nashville now. You can go. You can go big here now. And guess what? You're millionaires without a house payment. Go big.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go big. Enjoy that bottle of wine. Yeah. I want you to. That's fabulous. Congratulations, you guys. Thank you. Very cool. So what do y' all tell people? The key to getting out of debt is submit. Submit to somebody else's plan. That's a. That is a proven success. Because it wasn't until I did that that I started seeing my life change. When I came to Christ, I submitted to him. When I came to my finances, I submitted to this plan. And it's been. It's been just a beautiful, beautiful, very cool. What do you tell people, Janine? Intentional.

[Caller]

You need to be intentional. Yeah, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Those are good words. Intentional and submit. Good words. Good words. That is exactly how it works. And so, yeah, if you're going to hire a personal trainer and he's got a six pack and you got a keg, you probably ought to listen. Probably ought to submit. There's something going on there. There's a difference between these two things. This is a Sesame street moment. One of these things is not like the other. And so. Yeah, that's the thing, man. It's True about everything we do. We all have to find something. And it's, you know, and it is helpful when you have Christ in your life because you've already learned how to submit to a greater power that loves you, that's got a plan, that's, you know, and it's not. It's to bring you hope and not bring you harm and so on. And so then when you come along to something else, it's a biblical concept like these concepts, and you go, okay, I'm going to submit to that and we're going to do that that way. And then you do another one, and then you do another one. And so it's amazing what happens to your life. That's how people's lives get transformed. So, so proud of y'. All. Way to go. Very, very cool. I don't know if I've talked to a millionaire today. That's pretty cool. I need to get my daily quota. That's right. All right, Jose and janine. Manchester, New Hampshire. 283,000 paid off. House and everything. Baby steps. Millionaires by 52 years old making 112 to 133. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one.

[Jade Washall]

We're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Woohoo. Yeah. Oh, look at them. I love it.

[Jade Washall]

So good.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. They 20 years married, came from New Hampshire to do this. Dressed the part, had the T shirts, the matching dress, the whole bit and got it dialed in, man.

[Jade Washall]

But look like, you can see it brought them together. Like you can see that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, man. Once he got over trying to sell her car. Yeah. Right.

[Jade Washall]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very well done. Very well done. That's what it is. I mean, we almost never find a couple like never. That are at odds with each other, that hate each other, that do this. Of course, you know, we never find people that, that it's easy. I mean, occasionally we run into one of those. They. Yeah, they. Something happens. I get some easy money. But most of the time, these debt free screams. I mean, this is nine years.

[Jade Washall]

Yep, yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, in a world where people can't stick with something for nine minutes and they stuck with it for nine freaking years. Yeah. Yeah. Number one character quality of successful people, perseverance. They don't quit. They don't quit. They don't quit. Nine years. That's where all that emotion comes from. Nine years. Yeah. Yeah. And now they win. I love it. I love it. I love it. Sam, our scripture of the day, Romans 16:19. Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you. But I want you to be wise about what is good and innocent about what is evil. Thomas Sowell said, much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good.

[Jade Washall]

That's interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's just dead on right there. He's a quote, he's a quote machine. Beth is in Texas. Hi Beth, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good, Mr. Ramsey and Jay, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a longtime fan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. How can we help?

[Caller]

I'm hoping to make this question efficient because I feel like a lot can be packed into it. But my husband and I both come from, I would say extreme wealthy families and we have five children of our own and some our older ones are dating it with the purpose of marriage now and excuse me, how we can navigate potential marriages and prenuptial agreements and just, I was just wondering how you handled your children getting married.

[Jade Washall]

What a great question.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much? How much? I mean you said extreme wealth. So you and your, it's all. When you're. You and your husband's name now, right?

[Caller]

No, so what my, my side and his side both is they both have wealth of their own. And so one side has given all of our children a lot of stock. I mean in, you know, between 150 and 200,000 in stock. And then when they're 16, they get a vehicle and then they're possibly going to get a house. And so just things, things like that with me staying on top of entitlement. I promise you, I promise you, really working on that. But you know, letting them enjoy their, their grandchildren and seeing them getting to enjoy it but also making sure that they stay servant minded and, and not, you know, there's just a lot in there. There's just a lot in that.

[Dave Ramsey]

But there is, there's a, there's a weird combination between.

[Caller]

It is, it's hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's now that I'm the other side of it and we're on the grandkids and the kids have all been married for at least a decade. All Gen 2 Ramseys have been married at least a decade. And so I'm kind of past it. I look back and I used to say I hit the son in law lottery and then I went, no, I actually told my girls, taught my girls how to pick and they picked good ones because I ran off the losers. And so the instruction and the lack of entitlement and the spiritual underpinning is more responsible for ours picking well and more Responsible then as a result of that for not. Not having the need for a prenup and not having the attitude that it matters.

[Jade Washall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Jade Washall]

Can I. Can I. I want to jump in as a. As devil's advocate a bit. So sometimes we get the call from the actual spouse, the person who's going to marry someone, and they say, hey, I have a lot of money, and I have a lot of money in my family, and I'm thinking about doing this prenup. And we're not necessarily against them when there's a certain number of money and involved. So how do you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mainly if there's a large discrepancy.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. Where do you. Where does that line fall?

[Dave Ramsey]

Beth, you and your husband both had wealth in the background. You're both second gen. Well, right.

[Caller]

And we both. We. We signed a prenup, and We've been married 21 years this month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And that. And that's okay. If you just do that. If you just do that straight up. If there's a concern. And you just do that straight up. Because you're talking about a million dollars or something. You're not talking about 10 million. You're not talking about 100.

[Caller]

No, no, we're talking. I mean, it's over 50 million each side. I mean, not yet. No, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying potential and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, now there's two different subjects. Okay. The subject, number one is the current asset base of the person getting married.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's under a million. It is 200,000 in stock, maybe a house. Right. And so. And so that's not. That's not as big a concern. If they lost all of that in a nasty divorce because there was no prenup up, then we would be no big deal. Because they're getting 50 million.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So that. That's.

[Jade Washall]

It's the difference between their personal wealth and your family.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I would spend 90% of my energy on training the child, even as an adult, prior to marriage.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

That they are not the owner. They're the manager of God's resources. And it sounds like you're already doing all of that. Okay.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you leaned in immediately on no entitlement. You know, you're not raising trust fund babies. Damn it. You know, that's what you said, right? I heard you.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

I heard you, and I like that. Okay, so now that solves part of it. Now then the second part is the generational wealth. I can give you a fix for that. That's no prenups that we did. Okay. We did that with the Ramsey Company. Ramsey Solutions Company goes to the Ramsey Children's Trust.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

The stock is owned by the trust. Okay. And the terms of the trust are you have to be blood relative, okay. Or you can't touch it. So the outlaws are out, period. And no divorce court judge can interfere with that trust in any state. And so the trust has more power than divorce court judge. So that trust, no, if something happens with one of my kids and they get divorced, their spouse is not going to end up owning part of this because this is in the trust. And so you could take portions of that wealth, whether it's a piece of large piece of property or a series of properties, the ranch, whatever it is, a segment of whatever, and leave it into a children's trust. There's other estate planning benefits to that too, by the way, that your estate planner can help you with. And you need some estate planning. If you're sitting on 50 million because you got a problem generational, you got a problem, you're going to blow out the exemptions and have estate tax, unless that stuff's already in a trust of some kind. So you've got some generational skipping trust stuff to learn about and do. But anyway, the way we. One of our largest assets is this company and probably our second largest asset is this campus. And both of them are owned by the children's trust. And so some of the other stuff they might get or not get in a divorce because it's not in trust and there's not any prenups. But that's how we did it. We put the big stuff in the trust at death or before death. And the trust has a no, no one but blood. So grandkids are in. But if you're, you know, you weren't born a Ramsey, you're not in it.

[Caller]

No matter what my husband's side is, is got quite a bit of that like what he's. He's got to trust that has some sort of that stuff in it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And that are. Are my, my side. It's not talked about as much, but we're getting there.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to because it's going to cost you $10 million if you don't.

[Caller]

Yes, sir, I know. Believe me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's. But anyway, once you get that settled it, once it's in your control, your will could state that it's left to a children's trust, whatever it is, and you could have that same provision I've got. And then there's no need for a prenup.

[Caller]

Okay. So, I mean, they still can end.

[Dave Ramsey]

Up trust fund babies if you don't do the other stuff.

[Caller]

Oh, I'm telling you that. No, we don't need that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, no, they can be. I mean, you leave them money, they can be idiots. Right.

[Caller]

I know. You got to train them, preach to them. It's not ours. We are stewards of God.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, and you'll know that they get that if they feel the weight of the wealth rather than the celebration. Like they hit the lottery.

[Caller]

Yes, sir. For sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sometimes I. I see our kids. Shoulders drop like this, like there's a burden of this. There is. It's a burden to.

[Caller]

Can be.

[Dave Ramsey]

You gotta. You have to manage it. You have to manage it for Jesus. That's your job.

[Caller]

Just. And to honor my, my parents for working so hard to honor. It's. It's a big responsibility. But he didn't mess up. God didn't mess up.

[Dave Ramsey]

He knew it's not, it's not a mistake. Not a mistake. And somebody's got to manage it. Might as well not be the other side. Yeah, I mean, this idea. So you can manage it for God's glory. And that includes taking care of your family. And that includes some enjoyment of the money, but not exclusive enjoyment of the money. And includes working. Our kids have to work. You're not in the trust if you don't work. So if you're on the back of a yacht doing cocaine with your girlfriend while you're married to somebody else, you don't. You're not in the trust anymore. You're done. You can lose that too. So, yeah, I mean, we put provisions in there to take care of this stuff because we want it to be a blessing and not a curse. And that's the bottom line of what she's asking. And it can be done, but most of it is in the training of the next generation. Mostly that puts us our of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.