You Work Too Hard to Stay This Broke

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – Episode: You Work Too Hard to Stay This Broke Release Date: June 13, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network (Dave Ramsey and co-host Jade Washall)

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, hosted by Dave Ramsey and co-host Jade Washall, listeners grapple with various financial challenges despite seemingly substantial incomes. The episode delves into issues ranging from living paycheck to paycheck, unexpected family expenses, mortgage dilemmas, and recovering from financial setbacks. Through expert advice and compassionate guidance, Ramsey and his team aim to help callers navigate their financial anxieties and build a path toward wealth and stability.

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Caller 1: Maria from New York City – Living Paycheck to Paycheck on a High Income

Timestamp: [00:59] – [06:00]

Issue:
Maria and her husband have a combined income of nearly $300,000 but find themselves living paycheck to paycheck. Their financial strain stems from unexpected large expenses, including funeral costs for family members and medical expenses related to their daughter's severe ADHD.

Discussion:
Despite adhering to a budget using the EveryDollar app, Maria struggles to keep up with significant, unforeseen costs, which disrupt their financial stability and increase anxiety.

Notable Quotes:

• Maria: "Living paycheck to paycheck, it just is. It's foolish."
• Dave Ramsey: "You have to stop working on your own plan. You're circling around the airport and have refused to land."

Ramsey’s Advice:
Ramsey identifies that while the couple has a high income, they are not effectively coordinating their budgeting efforts. He emphasizes the importance of joint financial management and prioritizing expenses to prevent crises from derailing their budget. Ramsey advises them to prioritize adhering strictly to their budget and addressing large, unexpected expenses proactively to regain financial control.

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Caller 2: Amanda from Greenville, South Carolina – Navigating Family Financial Expectations

Timestamp: [10:32] – [20:02]

Issue:
Amanda and her husband are facing financial pressure from his family, who frequently request reimbursements for shared expenses related to a family lake house, such as taxes on a parking spot and after-the-fact charges for food during gatherings.

Discussion:
These unexpected financial obligations strain their budget and create tension within their marriage, as they navigate setting boundaries with in-laws who have financial expectations tied to the use of family property.

Notable Quotes:

• Amanda: "She [mother-in-law] doesn't get a vote on your budget or your marriage."
• Dave Ramsey: "You have to set clear financial boundaries with your in-laws to protect your own budget."

Ramsey’s Advice:
Ramsey advises Amanda and her husband to establish firm financial boundaries with his family. He underscores that in-laws should not influence the couple’s budget or financial decisions. By communicating upfront about their inability to cover retroactive expenses and setting clear terms for shared resources, they can prevent future financial strains and maintain a healthy relationship with his family.

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Caller 3: Jessica from San Antonio – Single Mother Facing Inconsistent Child Support

Timestamp: [22:28] – [35:36]

Issue:
Jessica, a single mother of two, experiences financial instability due to her ex-husband intermittently withholding child support payments. This inconsistency forces her to take on additional work to cover debts, notably a car loan and credit card debt totaling $20,000.

Discussion:
Jessica’s struggle illustrates the challenges single parents face when relying on inconsistent sources of income to meet financial obligations, leading to a cycle of debt and burnout.

Notable Quotes:

• Jessica: "My second job pretty much brings in the same amount as child support. I'm kind of right back where I was."
• Dave Ramsey: "Set low expectations on child support and focus on increasing your own income to break free from this cycle."

Ramsey’s Advice:
Ramsey recommends Jessica minimize her reliance on child support by adjusting her expectations and focusing on boosting her own income. He suggests exploring higher-paying job opportunities and side hustles to increase financial stability. Additionally, he emphasizes the importance of prioritizing debt repayment, starting with high-interest credit cards, to regain control over her finances and reduce anxiety.

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Caller 4: Sarah from Seattle – Negative Equity from a Second Home Purchase

Timestamp: [32:51] – [38:38]

Issue:
Sarah purchased a second home in Florida amid rising market fears but now faces negative equity and high mortgage payments ($4,000/month) that exceed her combined take-home pay ($8,600/month).

Discussion:
Sarah attempted to mitigate the risk by renting out the property, but prolonged vacancy and high expenses have left her financially strained, forcing her to consider selling the property despite potential losses.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah: "I think I need to sell it. But even now that I finally was able to rent it, I'm still in the hole."
• Dave Ramsey: "You cannot afford this house. Sell it to stop the financial bleeding."

Ramsey’s Advice:
Ramsey strongly advises Sarah to sell the second home to prevent further financial deterioration. He points out that maintaining an unaffordable mortgage will lead to deeper debts and financial instability. By selling the property, she can halt the mounting losses and reallocate her resources more effectively toward manageable financial goals.

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Caller 5: Unnamed Caller – Deviating from the 15-Year Mortgage Plan

Timestamp: [39:35] – [41:20]

Issue:
A listener inquires about the possibility of deviating from Dave Ramsey’s recommended 15-year fixed mortgage plan by opting for a 30-year mortgage with extra principal payments to achieve the same payoff timeline.

Discussion:
The caller seeks flexibility in their mortgage strategy, aiming to balance longer-term debt with the discipline of extra payments.

Notable Quotes:

• Caller: "If I pay them the same that you would on the 15th, that makes sense to be tracking."
• Dave Ramsey: "We do not suggest deviating from the 15-year plan because most people fail to systemically prepay their mortgages."

Ramsey’s Advice:
Ramsey does not recommend deviating from the 15-year mortgage plan. He explains that while mathematically possible, in practice, the majority of people do not consistently make extra payments needed to achieve payoff within 15 years. He emphasizes sticking to the disciplined approach of a 15-year mortgage to ensure financial goals are met without the temptation to alter the plan.

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Caller 6: Lucy from [Location Not Specified] – Recovering from a $130,000 Roth IRA Loss

Timestamp: [85:19] – [92:10]

Issue:
Lucy lost $130,000 from her Roth IRA due to an investment scam led by someone she believed to be a trustworthy Christian speaker. She struggles with shame, regret, and distrust in her financial judgment.

Discussion:
Lucy's experience highlights the emotional and financial turmoil caused by falling victim to investment scams, especially when compounded by betrayal and loss of significant retirement funds.

Notable Quotes:

• Lucy: "I don't trust my judgment anymore. I don't know how to stop looking back with the shame and regret."
• Dave Ramsey: "Grace towards yourself and others who have made mistakes is essential. Understand why you fell for the scam and commit to not repeating it."

Ramsey’s Advice:
Ramsey encourages Lucy to practice self-compassion and recognize that while the loss is significant, it does not define her entire financial journey. He advises her to analyze the reasons behind falling for the scam to prevent future occurrences and to rebuild her financial standing through disciplined budgeting and informed investment choices. Emphasizing learning from mistakes, Ramsey reassures her that recovery is possible with the right mindset and strategies.

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Caller 7: Alexis from Las Vegas – Planning a Budget-Friendly Wedding

Timestamp: [99:37] – [59:54]

Issue:
Alexis is planning her 10-year high school reunion in Hawaii and is torn between eloping to save costs or hosting a small, intimate wedding within a $15,000 budget, fearing debt accumulation.

Discussion:
Alexis grapples with balancing personal desires for a meaningful celebration against financial prudence, especially considering upcoming financial commitments like medical school loans.

Notable Quotes:

• Alexis: "Is this something that is just off the table? I just need to sacrifice it?"
• Dave Ramsey: "A $15,000 wedding is reasonable and can be managed within your budget by strictly adhering to it and prioritizing expenses."

Ramsey’s Advice:
Ramsey validates Alexis’s desire to have a meaningful wedding within her financial means. He advises her to create a detailed budget spreadsheet, allocate specific amounts to each wedding expense, and stick to the predefined limits. By planning meticulously and avoiding incremental expenses (scope creep), she can successfully host her wedding without jeopardizing her financial health. Ramsey emphasizes that a well-planned, budget-conscious wedding can be just as memorable and fulfilling as extravagant celebrations.

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Conclusion

Throughout this episode, The Ramsey Show addresses a spectrum of financial hardships, from managing unexpected family expenses and navigating complex mortgage decisions to recovering from significant investment losses and planning budget-conscious life events. Dave Ramsey and Jade Washall provide tailored advice emphasizing disciplined budgeting, setting firm financial boundaries, and prioritizing debt repayment. The overarching theme underscores the importance of financial resilience, proactive planning, and emotional strength in overcoming financial challenges and building a secure, wealth-oriented future.

Notable Closing Quote:

• Dave Ramsey: "There’s ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that’s to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus."

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Key Takeaways

• Joint Financial Management: Couples should collaborate closely on budgeting to prevent financial crises.
• Setting Boundaries: Establish clear financial boundaries with extended family to protect personal budgets.
• Increasing Income & Reducing Reliance: Focus on boosting personal income sources and minimizing dependence on inconsistent payments like child support.
• Debt Prioritization: Address high-interest debts first to regain financial stability.
• Avoiding Investment Pitfalls: Learn from past financial mistakes to prevent future losses and rebuild trust in personal judgment.
• Budget-Conscious Celebrations: Plan life events within financial means through detailed budgeting and disciplined spending.

By following these principles, listeners are empowered to break free from financial struggles and move toward a secure and prosperous future.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that you love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washall, number one best selling author, Ramsey personalities, my co host today. The phone number here, if you folks want to talk is 888-25-5225. Maria is in New York City. Hi, Maria, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

Hi. I am so excited to be on with you both and thank you so much for taking my call. And you two are my favorite combination. Thank you. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

You say that to everybody. You say that to all the personalities.

[Jade Weshall]

Never.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up today?

[Jade Weshall]

Oh my goodness. So really excited to speak to you. I know I'm walking into the bear cage very nervous, but my husband and I, we make a combined income of almost $300,000 and we're living paycheck to paycheck. We have two kids. We have been Ramsey Ish for about two years. But life keeps getting in the way. Between funeral expenses for family, our daughter has severe adhd and it just feels like we cannot get ahead, you know, long enough to be able just to, to follow the steps and the plans. And it's causing a lot of financial anxiety. And I can go into background and anything that you need to help just me figure out how to move forward with, with the amount of money that we have and living paycheck to paycheck, it just is. It's foolish.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, it's distressing for you, I can tell. And so you live in an expensive city, obviously. And obviously you've got an expensive medical condition that you're dealing with. And those two things go in the budget and they show up in the budget. Some ways they show up in the budget. So where do you think the problem is? If you were to write, I assume you've attempted some kind of written budget.

[Jade Weshall]

Yes, I have every dollar, premium version. I have notes in front of me. So our budget. So here's what seems to be happening. We do have a budget. Could we be better at it? Absolutely. But what keeps happening is, are these large purchase large bills, if you will. So about a year and a half ago, our mother passed and we covered the funeral expenses.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why did they not have arrangements to cover her funeral expenses?

[Jade Weshall]

Unfortunately, and this may be where my financial anxiety comes from, my parents raised a very large family on a single income from my father and did not have financial, you know, responsibility basically. And you know, just really.

[Dave Ramsey]

So there was absolutely no assets in the estate, Correct?

[Jade Weshall]

Exactly. None whatsoever.

[John Deloney]

What'd you spend on the funeral?

[Jade Weshall]

About 13 grand.

[John Deloney]

And so you said, big things keep coming up. So the funeral was one. What's another example of something that's coming out of the blue?

[Jade Weshall]

Yes. So my brother just passed away sadly a couple of weeks ago. I'm sorry. Yeah, I know, I know. It's been a rough two years. So that's another expense. But in between then, what has come up?

[Dave Ramsey]

You're paying for that funeral too, Correct.

[John Deloney]

How are you? Are you cash flowing it? What's that look like?

[Jade Weshall]

So that was. You know, this is where my problem is. Because all I want to do is cash flow it. And it feels that I'm not limited to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your brother's different than your mother. Why is no one. There's no. Is he single?

[Jade Weshall]

He is single.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or was he.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, he was. Sorry. He was single. And you know, really, right now, out of a few of us kids, it's. My sister and I are really the only ones that are the most financially stable.

[John Deloney]

Okay. So how much did you pay for your brother's funeral?

[Jade Weshall]

8,000.

[John Deloney]

And you. You did not pay cash.

[Jade Weshall]

Correct. We put that on a credit card.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Weshall]

And I.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that didn't bust your budget. It broke your bubble. But not your budget. So why can't you live on 300k?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm calling.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm serious. When you write down your budget, what's the problem? Because you're looking at it in front of you on every dollar. Where's the freaking money going?

[John Deloney]

These are two isolated incidents. What's been happening over the years. What do you see? Where do you see the problem?

[Dave Ramsey]

When you look at month to month, you got 25,000 bucks minus taxes coming in.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you got. You know, you're dealing with 20 grand or so to live on.

[Jade Weshall]

Take home is 13,600amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's something wrong.

[John Deloney]

Right. Is that minus half of what it ought to be.

[Jade Weshall]

So I bring home 8,000. My husband bring home, brings home 56. He pays for insurance out of his check, and we both do contribute to retirement.

[John Deloney]

Okay, that's the problem.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. 15%.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have no money. You don't put money in retirement. Your stop. Yeah, stop and get it budgeted. And what else you got? Have you got big tax refunds coming?

[Jade Weshall]

No, we owe every year, the last couple years. So now we've asked our employees, how.

[Dave Ramsey]

Much is your rent or your house payment?

[Jade Weshall]

Our mortgage is 2,700.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not out of line. Okay.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much are your car debts?

[Jade Weshall]

We paid off my husband's car and mine. I have 8,000 that we're looking to pay off as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

What other debts do you have?

[Jade Weshall]

We have two credit cards. Our total debt, including this funeral now, is 17,800.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have much debt. So that's not where it's going. It's not your house payment. That's not where it's going.

[John Deloney]

You have kids in daycare? Lots of kids.

[Jade Weshall]

Well, we have two children and that's what I was going to get to. It's like, how do we hand? So our daughter's ballet. It's ridiculous. I'm afraid of what your response is going to be. It's $10,000 a year. Our son does.

[John Deloney]

That's not the problem. That's not the problem either. I'm trying to figure out what's eating.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's 800 bucks a month.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. What's eating up? $20,000. And I haven't seen it because you have 8,000 on the car. These credit cards. What. I mean, what's the payment on the credit cards? What do you pay every month? Nothing.

[Jade Weshall]

So here. What we end up, know what we end, what we seem to be in cycle of is banking money and then paying off the debt. Right. Trying to do the snowball because you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Trying to make up your own freaking plan. So the. Let me ask, what do you do for a living? What's your husband do for a living?

[Jade Weshall]

He is a teacher and I am a school psychologist that moved into administration, so I'm a principal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And both of you are in administrative type roles. Okay. And so if I hired you and said, balance these people's budget that make 300k, you could do it. It's not an intellectual circus. It's not that hard.

[Jade Weshall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you could do it. But there's something. You aren't working together. You're not willing to say no to eating out. You're not willing to stop your retirement savings. You're not willing to sit and let's get this. This thing has to balance. You're not in Congress.

[Jade Weshall]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you guys have to look at this with a more serious eye. It sounds like you're just. It sounds like you keep circling around the airport and have refused to land.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. Because if you're really. If she's really saying that the only debt they have is 17,000 in credit cards and 8,000 in cars, that money's something. Is. She's not telling us they're spending money.

[Dave Ramsey]

On $10,000 here on ballet. And then, you know, and the ADHD was probably 10 or 15 grand on something they did overdid and so overdo everything. And you're living drama to drama, crisis to crisis, and you're letting that stuff dictate your life rather than you dictating to that stuff. And so let's pretend you didn't have any money and your brother died. Well, who's gonna pay for the funeral? I guess it wouldn't be you. So we have to start thinking about these things and. Or, you know, we're gonna do the $1,200 cremation. You know, this is what happens. If you die and there's no one to take care of you, the state will cremate you. That's what happens. Okay? And so I'm not suggesting being that cold, but you guys gotta start looking at some of these things and quit calling them. All these crises are taking precedent, and you've gotta take precedent over the crises because the budget becomes king, and the two of you have to be working on it together. I don't think he's real involved here.

[Jade Weshall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Weshall]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Amanda's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey, Amanda, what's up?

[Jade Weshall]

Hey, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Jade Weshall]

Thank you so much. Well, I have a question about some family finances. My husband and I started Financial Peace University about a month ago, and in doing so, I. We kind of uncovered. Well, I uncovered some things about some family traditions with money that his family has that is making me a little bit uncomfortable. Like yesterday morning he got a text from his mom saying, hey, you owe us a hundred dollars. And that happens quite frequently throughout the year. Probably maybe five or six times a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm trying to figure out for what.

[Jade Weshall]

So there's a lake, a family lake house, and like taxes on the lake house. I think the most recent one was for the tailgate parking spot. Sometimes it's for. If we've spent the weekend with them. It's for food from the weekend, which we don't mind paying for those things, but it's an after the fact type of thing.

[John Deloney]

Is he on the. Is he one of the owners of the lake house?

[Jade Weshall]

No, he is not.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the tailgate spot, that sounds like a football thing.

[Jade Weshall]

Correct.

[John Deloney]

So somebody, somebody purchased the spot and if you use it, you have to pay back that person. Is that what it is?

[Jade Weshall]

Well, we have a different spot. We buy our own spot for the year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you pay for theirs?

[Jade Weshall]

Well, that's my question.

[Dave Ramsey]

And why is it you're just now discovering this? How long you been married?

[Jade Weshall]

We celebrated our third anniversary on Tuesday.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so how much does this amount to? Is this like a hundred bucks a month? Has this happened like twice in the year? What does it amount to?

[Jade Weshall]

So for the tailgate spot, it's $100. And that would be for the year. But it just always, it's never like, it's never something I expect, and it's always been something that he paid until we combined our finances a month ago. It was something that he just paid for out of his money. And thank you to John Deloney, building a non anxious life, because it really helped us to get on the same page.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so when you say to your husband, this makes me uncomfortable, what does he say?

[Jade Weshall]

So he actually had a conversation with his mom last night saying, you know, no more of this retroactive stuff of you guys spending money and then us paying you back. You know, you need to have a conversation with us up front. And her response was, are you sure you want to do this budget thing?

[Dave Ramsey]

That was not the, that was not the statement. The statement was not about our budget. The Statement was, you have to tell us in advance or we're not going to pay you. Right, that's it. She doesn't get a vote on your budget or your marriage or anything that happens inside your house. She's the mother in law. By definition, that means she does not get a vote. If anybody doesn't get a vote, it's her.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. How does she.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of all the people on the planet, she's the one that has the least chance of getting a vote.

[Jade Weshall]

Well. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm serious. I mean, the worst position you can possibly be in is to be the mother in law for the son. It is the weakest position on the planet and the most power hungry.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay? And I do realize it's a difference in culture from my family. I was raised by a cpa.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's not. That's not the point. The point is your husband, your husband said to someone outside your home, we will not accept Surprise Billings anymore. And that's the end of the story. Period.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And by the way, you did do this, right? He talked to her. You don't need to be brought up in this because you'll become the evil. The evil girl that took her baby boy away.

[Jade Weshall]

Well, I learned that from listening to your show for about two weeks now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that was very good. Good. I'm glad you got you caught on to that.

[John Deloney]

Doing it right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here, and here's the thing. It's okay. I mean, you guys can be gentle about this. You don't need to be harsh about it because it's not a lot of money. It's just an emotional boundary violation.

[Jade Weshall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's just. It's just, you know, mom, we don't want to be in a parking spot for tailgating. We have our own. She got, you know, it's the deal. And if we're gonna do something in the Ramsey family, we got a lake house. I'm going down there this weekend. Same thing. If we're gonna do something. And Sharon, my wife, gets tired of doing all the cooking, so she emails the girls, including the daughter in law and the two daughters and says, whoever's gonna be here, y' all need to talk about what you're gonna cook. Cause I'll help you, but I'm not gonna do it all. And you guys got. We gonna figure this out a little bit. And so you're all like grown women and stuff. And so this is. And the girls go, okay, yeah. And they don't mind doing that. We talk about it up front and. But we don't send them a bill two weeks later for catering.

[Jade Weshall]

Right, right, right. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. What do you think about the taxes on the lake house? I mean, we do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you be obligated to pay taxes on someone else's lake house?

[Jade Weshall]

Well, that was my question. Because it's not. My husband's name is not on the house.

[John Deloney]

That's why.

[Jade Weshall]

That was kind of my question.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you could pay the taxes on my. My lake house if you want, since you're paying for other people's lake houses. I mean, why not?

[Jade Weshall]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's about as dumb.

[Jade Weshall]

I agree.

[John Deloney]

When you asked your husband, what did he say? What was the reason?

[Dave Ramsey]

Did he make a promise that he would do that?

[Jade Weshall]

I don't think so. I think it was just an implication when they built the house. You know, he was in college, and I think that's just kind of how it's ended up.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you're in college and your parents build a lake house, they don't call up and go, you got to pay taxes. You're in college.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

These people are weird. Okay?

[John Deloney]

And not the good kind of weird.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. It's not a good Ramsey weird thing. So, I mean. Yeah, no, we did not. We don't pay taxes on somebody else's lake house. And I don't know how this tradition started, but it's a weird tradition, and it really needs to stop.

[Jade Weshall]

Agreed. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

That's not a tradition.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's a tradition for these people. And so they have some weird things they do, and, you know, we've just gotta. But you can be gentle about it. Okay. You know, I'm being a little bit bombastic because it's a little bit absurd. And I want you to hear. It's absurd, but you guys can be gentle about moving away from mom and dad. Look, we're working hard on this stuff. We're trying to get ourselves out of debt, and it's your lake house, and I'm no longer comfortable paying the taxes on your lake house.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, you know, I'm gonna let you know that way in advance. So this fall, when the taxes come due, you're not caught off guard.

[John Deloney]

You know, is it part of you being able to go and hang out there several times a year? Is that what it is? Is it just the.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Well, it shouldn't be.

[Jade Weshall]

Well, I. I didn't think so until I found out that that was the expectation.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so that's the expectation. You come and use the lake house. You get to use the lake house twice a year. And in return, you pay how much, how much are the taxes?

[Jade Weshall]

I think my husband, when I looked it up on the county records, it said something like 4,000 for the year. And I think he paid like 3 or 400 last year.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah, I do. These people, they're not able to afford the lake house. Is that the problem?

[Jade Weshall]

Well, that's, that's, that's my. I told my husband, I was like, you know, we. If, if it's a lifestyle that they can't afford, then they shouldn't be doing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jade Weshall]

But it, and I try not to be critical, but when you dip your hands into our finances, then.

[John Deloney]

Well, how often do you go to the lake house?

[Jade Weshall]

Just maybe five weekends a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If, you know, if the deal is you don't get to go to the lake house because you're unwilling to pay $300 a year rent to use the family in air quotes, lake house, then that's a decision you all can make. But basically you're being asked to pay some of the expenses because you're using it as a rental. And if you don't want to use it, then that's their, their decision might be that they don't want someone who's not willing to pay to come. And that would be okay if that's how they want to do it. They're running an Airbnb for the family, I guess. I don't know. But a cheap one. But it's still that. But again, I've got a lake house and I pay the taxes. Nobody else pays the taxes, regardless of who visits. Okay. John Deloney was down there one time, and I didn't ask him for any rent, you know, so, you know, I mean, it's just, that's just you have guests at your lake house. If you do a deal up front and the family is a family, understand it.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

To buy something. But you don't do that with a college student.

[John Deloney]

No, it doesn't sound like that. It sounds like they said, if you're going to use our house, people are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very intertwined and they don't have good, clear boundaries. And so it's time to untangle some of this. But now you need to be, you need to be fair that if they, they may not. If you're not willing to chip in on the expenses, they may not want you to use it.

[John Deloney]

Five weekends is a lot to give up for $300.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm like, that's, that's a fair expectation on their part. They may say, look, only those that chip in can use it.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, because then that's, that's them saying, hey, while you're there, you're paying basically the utilities while you're there.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think I could go there. But I mean, I do tell, you know, like whoever's down there next weekend when I'm not, fill the dadgum boat up with gas when you leave. Hello. Yeah, you know, I do tell them to do stuff like that, but my kids, I mean, yeah, my grown kids. What? That's such an oxymoron.

[John Deloney]

Adult children.

[Dave Ramsey]

The adult ramses. Yes, the Gen2. Gen2 can fill up the boat.

[John Deloney]

You should, you should leave the place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than you left, by the way. I don't also say you can't come back if you don't do that.

[John Deloney]

That's true either.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, you know, you know, storming and we forgot to do it. Whatever. Wow. Some people's children. This is the Ramsey Show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and wondering where your money's going, first step is plan. It's called a budget. And our team is hosting free budgeting trainings this month. Did I mention they're free? You learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using every dollar and you get your biggest budgeting questions answered. In a live Q and A. Sign up for free. Did I mention it's free at everydollar.com webinar Jessica in San Antonio. Hi, Jessica, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm doing well, thank you. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

Well, I am currently, I'm a single mom and I have been trying to tackle my debt for the last couple years. And this summer I had thought, hey, I'm going to try to really do it aggressively, get a second part time job while the kids are out of school and work on that. Right before summer happened or summer came, child support stopped coming in. So my second job pretty much brings in the same amount as child support. I'm kind of right back where I was.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you doing to get him activated again?

[Jade Weshall]

At the moment there's really nothing I can do because it just happened. So it's like a wait and see. If months go on that he doesn't pay, then I can start. I mean, it's like an on again, off again thing with him. So. Not the first time I've been here.

[John Deloney]

How much is the child support?

[Jade Weshall]

It's about 900amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many kids you got, kid?

[Jade Weshall]

I have two.

[Dave Ramsey]

What age?

[Jade Weshall]

13 and 11.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How long you been a single mom?

[Jade Weshall]

Probably going on 10 years now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, you've been fighting this a long time.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do you make?

[Jade Weshall]

I make about 54,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good, good. Are you plugged into a good church?

[Jade Weshall]

I am good, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. And who's taking care? Who's watching the kids while you're working so much?

[Jade Weshall]

They sometimes will stay home if it's a short shift or they'll be with friends or my sister.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good.

[Jade Weshall]

That's good that you have that pent on. Who's available?

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And what do you do for a living?

[Jade Weshall]

I am an office manager for a physical therapy clinic.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good for you. Well done. All right. And so your core question is what again?

[Jade Weshall]

How to avoid burnout once you're going to do all this?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, here's the thing. You've made it 10 years with avoiding burnout. And it's really an incredible thing that you've done because that's been a tough slog. The math that you're giving me is no easy walk. Okay, so you truly are a warrior princess. I mean, you've been doing it. And the burnout comes when you don't think there's any light ever at the end of the tunnel. It doesn't come from it being hard you can do hard. We know that by just hearing your story. But the hard becomes burnout when you don't think it's ever going to stop. Well, we know it is going to stop because you got a 13 year old five years from now. That one's done.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So I mean we know that's going to stop. And the other one's 11, so seven years from now. So we know that there is an end to this in terms of the weight of raising children by yourself financially. And so what I would do is two things. And Jade, you jump in here. But one is I'm always looking at both sides of the equation, the income side and the outgo side. You have a good income, but it's not great. So I want to start thinking about over the next three to 10 years or five years or whatever it is, what I'm going to be doing that makes me 100k. I don't want a 38 year career as the office manager making 50k.

[Jade Weshall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't mind. It's a good job, it's stable and you're probably a great team member. But I want to know, okay, what is it I'm going to do to own one of these or what is it? I want to be in the next phase and I'm going to start studying and taking the classes, get the certifications to do that thing and have a long plan. And that helps with burnout because you can see out there into the future that there's something to do. And in the short term do what you're doing. And that is add income by, you know, by a great side hustle. And the side hustle has one definition. Which one makes the most money? If it's moral and legal.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because there's no, the side hustle is not for purpose of your career. It's how can I make the most possible money in an hour? That's moral and legal.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then that helps. And then lastly, I would just say the secret to happiness is low expectations on child support. Because this guy's not a good dad, he's not a good provider. He never has been. It's been a pattern. To expect this money to come every month is not reality.

[John Deloney]

Setting yourself up for time.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so when it does come, I'm gonna go, wow, that's awesome. I'm gonna act surprised every time it comes. You there?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. Yes, sir.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. I think I, I think that Dave is right. I think when you're in survival mode, you don't feel like you have the luxury to really think career wise. What is it that I would really love to do? What would it, what would it look like? You know, there's really no time for that just when you're struggling in life and financially. But if you can carve out that time and do that, because we say all the time, you know, there's two components to this puzzle and one is, you know, to cut your expenses massively, which you've done that, that's been your whole life for 10 years. And then the other piece of that is you do have to get your income up and not just side hustling. But yeah, really looking at that core income and that is a journey over time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you got debt you need to clear?

[Jade Weshall]

Yes, I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it?

[Jade Weshall]

Right now? It is with my car. I'm right around 20,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's an expensive car for your situation. Yeah. You may want to look at moving down to a ten thousand dollar car.

[Jade Weshall]

Currently I owe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Currently owe what?

[Jade Weshall]

I owe nine thousand on my car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I thought you said you owe 20,000.

[Jade Weshall]

Oh no, no. Total, including my car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. That's good. Okay. The car is a keeper then. That's okay. And what's the other 11,000?

[Jade Weshall]

That would be credit card debt that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Caught your slack when you had a, when you were surprised that the child support didn't come. Yeah, yeah. So we're not gonna be surprised anymore.

[Jade Weshall]

And I didn't always have this job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's true. I mean you've been, you've been pushing through. I know who you are. I've worked with you and I think you're very impressive. I think you're a lot more impressive than you feel.

[Jade Weshall]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm proud of you. I mean you raised two kids in San Antonio, Texas by yourself with not much help from Goober and not regular help anyway. Right. And he's still playing games a decade later with his own children, which makes him a shameful individual. Right. And so, you know, and in spite of all of that, you've continued to get better, get better jobs, move along and this job's an upgrade from the last one, isn't it? Isn't it? Yeah. So we're going to keep doing that. We're going to keep doing that and that's. And you're going to get there. And when you get there, you're going to be so strong that nothing will knock you down because you're building strength at every step of this journey. That's what I meant I wasn't joking around when I said you're a warrior princess. You're in a position. You know, Jessica, I remember many years ago we had Financial Peace University. We used to do. The way we would do it is after I would teach live in those days, we would have a small group discussion and we'd get in a circle. And I remember a single mom in there, young, younger than you actually, who was cutting hair. And she said, you know, I don't, I don't think I can make it. I'm burning out. I'm not making enough cutting hair. And I'm sitting there trying to figure out what to tell her. And a lady across the circle says, you're gonna be okay. She said, what do you mean? She goes, I was you 20 years ago. I used to cut hair. Now I own the shop. Now I got a half million dollars in the bank.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In mutual funds. And I'm here to just figure out how to become a millionaire and you're gonna be okay, hon. And she walked her right through it. And I was like, like dad, gum, there's, there's your future sitting across the room from you.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. You just need to see that it's possible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Jade Weshall]

You guys, one of the best gifts that you can leave your family after you're gone isn't stuff. It's peace. When something happens, your loved ones don't want to be digging through drawers or guessing passwords to access your important information. That is why I love Knockbox. That's N O K as in next of kin box. Knockbox is a super practical physical system that helps you organize all your important documents like accounts, passwords, assets, medical records, even your will in one safe place. And your Knockbox is divided into user friendly categories to help you get organized so you can give your family clarity, not clutter when they need it Most. Go to knockbox.com ramsey and check it out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sarah is in Seattle. Hi Sarah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Weshall]

Hi Mr. Ramsey. Thank you so much for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can I help?

[Jade Weshall]

Okay, so I just started following you and, but it was too late. I already made a huge mistake yet last year by buying a second home. And if you don't mind, I can just give you a rundown of like my, my financial situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, what, what's your question, hun?

[Jade Weshall]

Okay, so I, I, I had a condo in Seattle that I live in. Paid $2,300 a month for mortgage plus HOA. And then last year I speak up because my, my, I'm from Florida. Initially or originally. And my parents are older and I have a plan of moving back to Florida and so I got. I freaked out because of the housing situation. Kept going up and I felt like if I waited I would of market. So I went ahead and. And bought a second home in Florida. Florida at the top of my budget.

[John Deloney]

Oh gosh.

[Jade Weshall]

And the mortgage for. Yeah, the mortgage for that is $4,000 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well sell it and I.

[Jade Weshall]

Well it's now I'm in negative equity. I make my take home pay is 8,600amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I mean why can't you sell it?

[Jade Weshall]

Well, because now the price has gone down and I already spent $50,000 in the past year because I couldn't rent it. Reason?

[Dave Ramsey]

Who said the price?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, so now it's like who said that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because the prices in Florida have not gone down. What are you talking about?

[Jade Weshall]

No, where it is according to Zillow and I talked to a real Zillow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is not a reliable source on anything.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay, okay.

[John Deloney]

When did you buy? How long has it been since you bought it?

[Jade Weshall]

I bought it May 1, 2024. I closed on it. Then I tried to put it on the market to rent it but it's been empty for 13 months. I just finally got a rent last two weeks on June 1st, but the still negative. So $4,000 mortgage a month and they pay 2700.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have any money?

[Jade Weshall]

I have $50,000 in savings and then some in 401k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Real Estate ELP. Look for a Ramsey trusted real estate agent. Have them come out and look at it. Get it on the market and get it sold. If you have to write a $10,000 check to write a 10 to get rid of your mistake, do it. You have a problem here that is not going to get better.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay? Even, even now that I Finally after 13 months I was able to rent it and I mean I'm still in the hole but better than this is.

[Dave Ramsey]

A ticking time bomb. It's going to blow up on you.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

So you cannot afford this house. You cannot afford for it to be empty. You cannot afford for the heating and air to go out. You cannot afford for the roof to leak. You cannot afford to evict the tenant when they don't pay. This thing's going to choke you out, girl. It's just a matter of when having.

[John Deloney]

A renter doesn't solve the problem because at any point that could leave and then you'd be right back to where you are. Right here, today.

[Jade Weshall]

Do you see what I told you? I understand, but that's the only thing my. My fear is that I understand I made a huge mistake. But because, okay, So I spent 23,000 in closing costs. Now I have to spend another.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what you spent.

[John Deloney]

Stupid tax.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what you spent. You lost that money because you did something stupid. This thing's gonna. You're gonna lose more money if you stay in it.

[Jade Weshall]

Mm. So you think even if I'm a hundred thousand under.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not a hundred thousand under.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay. Even though I've been spending 4,000amonth for the past year.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about what you can sell it for versus what you owe on it. What do you owe on it?

[Jade Weshall]

428,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good God. And what do you think you can sell it for?

[Jade Weshall]

If I'm. If I'm lucky, I think maybe 5:30.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, sell it. You put money in your pocket.

[John Deloney]

I think you have to just realize, Sarah, that this is a mistake. And mistakes cost you. And in this case, there may not be a way to get back the money that's lost. You're doing well if you can break even. You're doing well if you take a break.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stop the bleeding, not reverse the fact that we had a car wreck. We're just trying to stop the bleeding because you're gonna bleed out. This is not a good. This is not a good thing. Now, I've done a lot of stupid stuff in my life, hon. And when I do something stupid and it costs me, I write on the Check in the 4 column. As I write the check for my stupidity, I write four stupid tax. Dave did something stupid and he has to pay a tax called stupid tax. You're going to pay some stupid tax here. You're going to get some of your money back, but you're not going to get all your money back. And you're going to get out of this trap you have set for yourself. Nothing in the decision making process that you used was wise. You panicked over a real estate market. You ran to the other end of the United States and bought a rental property. And then you're shocked that it sat vacant.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you overpaid for it, probably. So, hun, you do what you want to do. But you called us and we're telling you very clearly what to do. If you don't go do it, it's going to be your next bad decision. So you just decide what you're going to do, it's up to you. I've done plenty of stupid stuff and I can recognize stupid a mile away. And this was a dumb decision. Okay, you're not dumb. But this decision was desperate, unwise, and you got yourself into a bear trap, kid.

[Jade Weshall]

I.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you best get away before the bear comes. This is not good.

[John Deloney]

Well, it was all fear based. She did the first one out of fear base and now she might not get out of it for fear. You know, fear that you know you're gonna.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, let me tell you, you don't. When you look down and you walk away and you go, okay, I put a hundred thousand dollars in my pocket, But I spent 160,000 for that opportunity. And so I got a hundred of my 160 back or whatever the number is. And you look down at that $60,000 worth of stupid, that's what you don't want to do. Nobody wants to face that. That's called facing the music. Right? And nobody wants to do that. I don't want to look down and go, this is what my stupidity costs me. I don't like looking at that. I want to avoid that if I can. That's human nature. That's not unusual for you. Sarah, I'm not picking on you, but honey, you know, all you're doing is arguing with me. You call me up and said, I'm in a mess. And I said, yeah, you're in a mess. Why don't you get out of the mess? She said, no, I want to stay in the mess. I don't want to argue with you about it. I want you to get out of the mess. That's what we're here for, is to help you. Harrison is in Indianapolis. Hi, Harrison. How can we help?

[Jade Weshall]

Hey, it's Sigma. Call Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure, what's up?

[Jade Weshall]

My question, my question for you is I listen to your show for a long time and talk about doing. Doing a 15 year fixed rate mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. My.

[Jade Weshall]

My question is if it's okay to deviate from your plan, go for a 30 year mortgage and do extra payments on the principal with the understanding that you always do an extra payment a month to basically level out so you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can pay them the same that you.

[Jade Weshall]

Would on the 15th. That makes sense to be tracking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's certainly not illegal, but would we suggest it? No, we would not suggest it. And here's why. We've done research and 100% of the 15 year mortgages pay off in 15 years or less. Almost none of the people that do your plan pay off in 15 years or less. As a matter of fact, the FDIC says from the Federal Reserve, observe the statistics that 97.5% of mortgages are not systematically prepaid. Meaning doing what you're doing systematically would be monthly. Adding the amount to make it a 15, the equivalent of the 15 when you pay, add the amount of a 15 year payment to the 30 year payment. It will pay off in 15 years, mathematically. But no one does it because prom dresses and transmission.

[Jade Weshall]

Right.

[John Deloney]

Well, which is why you want to do that. Right. Because you want the flexibility of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Of not paying it.

[John Deloney]

Not paying it.

[Jade Weshall]

Fair. I mean, my. You know, I would argue my situation is a little different than.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're going to beat a 97% odd. That's not a wise argument. I'm not going to set myself up to do that. Yeah. And I set myself up to where I've automatic discipline.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I like that. And by the way, everybody thinks their situation is different. I just want you to know that. Harrison, I know you're not there anymore, but everybody thinks their situation is different.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not. You know, you don't have a situation that today that's going to exist 30 years from today or 15 years from today. Now, if you are the rate of change in this culture that we live in. Do you understand what happened in the last 15 years? I mean, there was no iPhones.

[John Deloney]

True that.

[Jade Weshall]

True that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, come on. I mean, you understand what has happened? The rate of change. Cars used to drive themselves 15 years ago. You know, I mean, this is crazy. Y' all. The world we live in. I mean, there was no such thing as a podcast. YouTube was only cats chasing lasers. That was it.

[John Deloney]

Oh, gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

And now it's the primary broadcast medium in the world. I mean, come on. Netflix was sent DVDs to your mailbox 15 years ago. Blockbusters was still open 15 years ago. You cannot. You cannot anticipate 15 years from now, much less 30 years from now. Confession, folks.

[Jade Weshall]

When life gets really hectic, I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Take time to plan my healthy meals. Some days I can't even remember what a vegetable looks like. That's why I keep field of Greens handy.

[Jade Weshall]

It's a superfood powder made with real.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fruits and veggies selected by do doctors to help your heart, lungs, metabolism and more.

[Jade Weshall]

I mix field of Greens with water.

[Dave Ramsey]

I shake it up and I'm ready to go.

[Jade Weshall]

And to tell you the truth, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did expect it to kind of taste.

[Jade Weshall]

Like compost, but it's really delicious.

[Dave Ramsey]

Plus, field of greens promises your doctor will notice your improved health or you get your money back. So go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsey for 20 off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey to save 20% on your first order. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Washall Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today Anna is in San Francisco. Hi Anna, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm good, Dave, happy to talk. No, I'm not happy, but glad to talk to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you too. How can we help today?

[Jade Weshall]

So I have a question. I am in a very complicated position right now thinking about filing Chapter 13 bankruptcy or take a second loan towards my house. It's a long story, but I'm going to try to make it short. And I apologize if I say anything in English incorrect. It's my second language. So I'm married, have kids. We had the whole debt situation. I found you in 2022. We got into doing the plan together. By May of 2024, we debt free, paid off like just owned the house. It was wonderful. So my husband started talking to friends about cryptocurrency and he started investing. Start small, start making money. He, you know, made a big move behind my back. You know, he took a big loan of $200,000.

[John Deloney]

Oh my gosh.

[Jade Weshall]

And he invested that money in crypto, xrp, Trump coins and all this stuff. He told me after he did it, I panic. I was, I was in totally panic when he told me that. And that was March of this year. And I thought things couldn't get worse. And he did, he got a phone call. He was expecting a phone call from the company. He was making the whole bitcoin thing. The name of the company was Pionix. P I O N E X Pionex. He was doing crypto with this company and he had over $200,000. He also had $50,000 for his mom that he was investing. So it was like 25, 250,000 total.

[John Deloney]

How did he find Pionex? How did he find them online?

[Dave Ramsey]

His friends?

[Jade Weshall]

He talked to his friend. I don't know for sure if it was online. He was, he's a.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got. He got scammed. Is that what you're getting ready?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

He lost his. He lost his mother's $50,000.

[Jade Weshall]

He lost everything. And we don't even own the 200 that he lost.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. And we can't pay those $200,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So where did you bury him?

[Jade Weshall]

Still digging? My backyard.

[Dave Ramsey]

In his mother's backyard probably.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, that would be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my God. So what is your household income?

[Jade Weshall]

About 10k a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you owe on your personal residence?

[Jade Weshall]

400,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is it worth?

[Jade Weshall]

It's like 700.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. All right. And what does your husband make a year?

[Jade Weshall]

He makes. He brings home about 10,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And has he owned this? That he was unbelievably deceitful, lying behind your back?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, that was a big lie.

[Dave Ramsey]

And never gonna do it again because he's stupid?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, we thought about that. He called me stupid, said that he didn't understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only thing stupid you did is marry him.

[Jade Weshall]

Wow. He told me he was going to be millionaire and he's going to make our family millionaire. And that I didn't have to worry about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Instead you're calling somebody about filing bankruptcy. So has he owned this so that it doesn't happen again?

[Jade Weshall]

He did. Dave. The only reason why I didn't walk away yet is because he told me, crying, he begged me to stay, and he told me that God took this money away.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, God did not do this. You don't blame God. Don't blame God when you're stupid.

[Jade Weshall]

I know, I know. But just the way he's thinking, like, God, take the money away.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's not a good way of thinking. He needs to own it. I'll tell you what. Took the money away. He took the money away because he was stupid. He needs to own that or he's going to do it again. If you blame it on God, then what are you going to blame it on next time? The devil.

[John Deloney]

It's manipulative, right?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, he said that. And he told me he was like a punishment for going behind my back. So I was like, if you really think that's a punishment for going behind.

[Dave Ramsey]

My back, how about just being an adult from this point forward? Yeah, that'd be just fine. We don't. We don't need a punishment. We need a grown up husband.

[John Deloney]

He made two mistakes. He took out your own and then he did a manager back.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've already paid off $80,000 when both of your brains were working at the same time. You know how to do this. And so now you pay off $200,000. How did he borrow 200 grand? What did he put up his collateral?

[Jade Weshall]

We had. Well, we did the plan. We were doing good. He had Good credit, I guess. You know what? The house, he has equity on the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did he borrow against the house?

[Jade Weshall]

No, he didn't. He just loaned it like 23 here, 23 there, 147 there, different location. And he end up with like 193. Wasn't, you know, close to 200.

[Dave Ramsey]

So these are like credit cards and personal loans.

[Jade Weshall]

Yes, yes. The entrance is super high. Is like 23% interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is not your problem. Stupidity is your problem.

[Jade Weshall]

I know, but the payment, like five grand a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've already paid off $80,000 and you did that in 18 months. So you know how to do this?

[John Deloney]

Can you. Are you. I hate to ask you to do this, but are you working at all?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm not right now. I'm waiting for my kids. I'm already making application. My kids gonna go back to school. I will as soon as they get back to school. I was working and helping. That's how we get out of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we're gonna do it again.

[Jade Weshall]

But then right now with the 5,000 payments of.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not bankrupt.

[Jade Weshall]

I'm not bankrupt.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're not bankrupt. You make enough money to clean this up and you can either pay it, you can put it as a second mortgage on your house. I really don't want you to. And then pay it off there because. But you're keying off on how big the payments are. You need to be paying $5,000 month.

[Jade Weshall]

A.

[Dave Ramsey]

A month.

[John Deloney]

It's going to be painful. And the hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to be paying $6,000 a month. That's how you going to get out of this. $6,000 a month, 72,000 a year.

[John Deloney]

The hardest part of this entire journey. It's going to be hard to pay off the debt, but every payment, you're going to have to work on how you feel towards your husband and what that means for you guys. Because with every payment, the resentment has the ability to grow more and more. And each time you go to your job that you feel you shouldn't be working right now, that resentment has an opportunity to grow. So you guys have to get into some sort of therapy, something to work through this, because things still aren't right. I can tell.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. Well, they shouldn't be. Yeah, shouldn't be. Oh, my God. We've got massive stupidity and we blamed it on God. And it's unbelievable. I mean, God's looking at you going, not my deal.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't do this. The only thing I did is make you. That's the only thing I did. How come every time you're on the air I get these crypto cards?

[John Deloney]

I don't know. I was thinking the same thing. This is a problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a pattern here.

[John Deloney]

It's a problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like Georgian horses and crypto and J. I guess so. I don't know, man. This is the Ramsay Show.

[John Deloney]

What's up guys? It's Jade. And let me tell you, when my husband and I had $280,000 of student loans debt, we were not sitting around waiting on the government to bail us out. We did the hard work to pay it off ourselves. So if you're still holding out hope that forgiveness is coming, that's like you waiting for your landlord to start paying your rent. It ain't going to happen. If you really want those student loans gone, you need a plan. And for some of you, refinancing might be part of the plan. So I recommend Laurel Road. With Laurel Road, you can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes. Minutes. And if you have a more complex situation, you can set up 30 minutes to talk to a real actual human being to find out if refinancing is right for you. Ramsey's advice is clear. Get out of debt as fast as possible and a lower rate or a shorter term can make that possible. Laurel Road has low competitive rates and they even offer interest rate discounts. So stop waiting on the maybes and the somedays and start taking action today. Go to LaurelRoad.com Ramsey to get a free rate quote or schedule a free 30 minute consultation. That's Laurelroad.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or selling your home is a big deal. And between clickbait headlines and confusing data, it's tough to know what's actually going on in the housing market right now. The average house price, the median house price in America is $431,000. That means half of them are more expensive in America and half are less expensive. That's what median means as a statistical measure. Nearly a million homes on the market right now. That's the largest inventory of for sale homes we've had since 2019. Six years, a lot of houses on the market. And house prices are not going down. They've been continued to go up. Interest rates have gone down. They're a little under 6, 5.9% for a 15 year fixed right now. So if you want to know about housing trends and you're trying to get yourself situated to get your home bought, that's a good idea. Go to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show notes and we'll help you. The whole thing's free. Claudia's in Chicago. Hey Claudia, how you are? Are you?

[Jade Weshall]

Hi, how are you? I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can I help?

[Jade Weshall]

I was just calling in to see if it would be more reasonable for me to get eloped with my fiance in the coming year or to have a wedding. I'd love to have a wedding. No one in my family has had one and between my sister in laws and my sister, they regret it. They all eloped. It was more feasible. It was more feasible and financially the savvy thing to do. But I love to have a and a very small one, intimate about 50 to 100 people on my parents property. What would it cost less? I'm estimating less than 15,000 for me and my fiance. Our costs. I know that both of our parents would definitely want to pitch in and help. Okay, so do you have the money lower than that. See, yes. I'm so terrified of going into debt. So I am 23 years old. I paid for my college, my school. After graduating I started making about 70,000 a year. Now I'm at 75. But I am applying to medical schools this cycle. So that income is going to go away and that's what scares me because I know I'll be taking on loans in the future and my fiance, he makes about the same as me. So about 72 right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So do you have any money saved?

[Jade Weshall]

I have $30,000 right now of my own and high fake high heel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. I would spend $15,000 on a wedding. Yes, yes, I would.

[Jade Weshall]

Isn't that insane?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, absolutely I would.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay. Yay. Okay, cool. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely would do that. Yeah. And here's why. It's a small percentage of your world and it is in terms of your mathematically. It's a small percentage of what you make, what you have, what you've done, what you've already accomplished. At 23, it's a very reasonable. And the average wedding in America is approaching 30,000 right now.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Just to tell you the averages doesn't mean you have to spend that. But that's the averages here. So you're half of average. So you're being reasonable, you're being very calm and oh by the way, you're paying cash.

[Jade Weshall]

Yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. So I 100% would do that now. I will. Can I give you a recommendation?

[Jade Weshall]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

The project that has the most scope creep other than building a home is a wedding.

[Jade Weshall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You start out with 15 and you look up and it's 45.

[Jade Weshall]

That is true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you get nickeled and dimed, and you get with the people on the reception, and we get the nicer mushroom caps and whatever. Right. And you know the old wedding movie with Steve Martin? The cheaper chicken. The cheaper chicken. Right. And so that whole thing. So what you need to do is if 15,000 is your budget, you need to write that at the top of the page, and you need to say, okay, how do we build a wedding for 15,000? That means the videographer can get no more than X, the dress will cost Y, the reception food is going to be Z, and you get a total number of dollars down the page by category. That totals up to no more than 15. And then when you meet with a caterer and they say, oh, well, we could do. No, I'm sorry. This is what I can do.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you go look at the dress. There's always a dress that's more expensive. There's always a videographer that wants to shoot a Hollywood movie. Okay. There's always, always. And instead, I got my friend with a still camera walking around, and you're gonna be okay. And, you know, we're gonna pick flowers in mama's front yard on the farm and whatever. I don't know. But you just decide where you're gonna spend this money ahead of time. Otherwise you'll look up and it'll be 20 at least.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, I've already started, like, a little spreadsheet. I bought my dress. I love it. I'm not picky. As long as I'm in white. I could walk down in, like, a trash bag, and he'd say, I do. Bought a dress.

[Dave Ramsey]

We knew he was gonna say, I do. Cause this is a smart guy, okay? That the question. We don't need trash bags. The point is, your spreadsheet is the exact thing you need to do. This is how you got through school without debt. You had a plan.

[Jade Weshall]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is how you do a $15,000 wedding, not an 18 or 28 or $48,000 wedding. You do it with a plan. It's a project, and it has line items down the spreadsheet, and then you stick to that budget. Or if you spend less on one item, it gives you more to spend on some of the other items. But either got a budget, a project budget here that we're running. And when you run a wedding that way, it doesn't take the romance out of it. It does take all of the opinions of friends, relatives, and mothers out of it.

[John Deloney]

That's the good part. When you pay for it on your own, nobody else gets a vote.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, she said maybe mom and dad were gonna chip in some, but that doesn't mean they get a vote. They just get to chip in. And so, you know, all three of the weddings that the Ramses did, that's exactly how we did them. They all three spent. I think. Well, yeah, I think they all three spent it all.

[John Deloney]

Oh, wow, that's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

I gave them a budget. I gave them an amount. I said, you do it, and we're gonna put it in a separate account, the wedding account, and you guys stick to that. And I want to see the spreadsheet and I want to see you sticking to it. But other than that, I'm not gonna tell you what to spend it on, but don't come in here afterwards and go where? $5,000 over. I don't want to hear this crap. So, you know, you guys just be like grownups and stuff. You're not in Congress, and so you can't just make this crap up as you go. Go. And. And that lady right there, she's going to be incredible. I mean, 23 got through school debt free.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, but she said she plans on taking debt to go into college, to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go to medical school. Medical school. Yeah, that's true.

[John Deloney]

That's a mistake.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is a mistake. Yeah. I would work around that, but the rest of this call was excellent. It was excellent. Very, very well done. All right. Christian is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Christian, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

Good, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

So I have a question for, I guess you and other maybe people listening about, you know, they started their own business. They're, you know, doing, doing well. But how. How do you manage debt and to get out of debt when, you know, you're running your own business and maybe the paychecks aren't as consistent and sporadic.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's not the lack of consistency that matters, it's the size of the check that matters.

[Jade Weshall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If they're inconsistent and small, you got two problems. If you get $300,000 every four or five months, you probably make it out okay.

[Jade Weshall]

Right. And I've started my business two years ago. I built furniture and custom cabinets, and I've been maintaining.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your. What's your net profit last year.

[Jade Weshall]

About.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, what you pay taxes on? It shouldn't be in about. You should have filed your taxes. What'd you pay taxes on last year about.

[Jade Weshall]

I think it was like, right. Like 62,000 okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And what do you think you're gonna do this year? That's profit?

[Jade Weshall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's what you paid taxes on your income. All right.

[Jade Weshall]

Yep. And this year I'm aiming to shoot for 100. Right now I'm about 40.

[John Deloney]

What causes it to be sporadic? Is it a seasonal thing?

[Jade Weshall]

Well, you know, obviously doing cabinets is a very streamlined production, but sometimes I do custom furniture, and it can. It's like reinventing the wheel for every project. So sometimes I say, oh, it's going to take a month and it takes two months.

[John Deloney]

Then is there a way that you can kind of set your pay on the lower end of the spectrum and learn to live off of that? And then the, the times where you're able to take more, it's just kind of a gravy. That's what I would do.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. Yeah, I've, I've tried. I've done that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you're, if your production line is running twice as long as you thought it was going to run, you don't have a money problem. You got a business model problem. You're not estimating your jobs. So you'll get better at that. You'll get. You'll get better at that as you go along. But, you know, it's easy to live on $60,000 a year, whether it's irregular or not. In Raleigh, North Carolina, it can be done. And so that's what you've got to lay out, is just lay out a game plan to do that and then watch your cash flows and watch your estimating and your production times.

[Jade Weshall]

There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying. Paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home, the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into.

[John Deloney]

A baby steps millionaire.

[Jade Weshall]

Get started on the American dream of home ownership [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on The debt free stage. Dustin and Tara are with us. Hey guys, how are you? We're doing great. How are you? Welcome. Where do you guys live?

[Jade Weshall]

Florida, Just south of Cocoa Beach.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, very cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid? Paid off?

[Jade Weshall]

287, 766.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. And how long did that take?

[Jade Weshall]

Seven years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, good for you and your range of income during that time.

[Jade Weshall]

It started at 100,000, I changed roles.

[Dave Ramsey]

At work, went down to 70,000 and last year had an amazing year at 500,000.

[John Deloney]

Wow, that's significant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sweet, sweet income. So what do you guys do?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm a stay at home mom and I'm in power generation sales.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. All right. So it just took off, huh?

[Jade Weshall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Last year was a good year. Yeah, phenomenal. So was this your house? It, it was.

[John Deloney]

Yay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look at it. Weird people house and everything, baby.

[Jade Weshall]

Woohoo.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's this house worth?

[Jade Weshall]

250,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well that's what we started out in 2019. It's around 450,000 worth now. Oh, okay. Wow. Very good. And how much in your nest egg these days in your retirement? Retirement?

[Jade Weshall]

Probably around 350,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're bumping up close to a million dollar net worth. Getting close, yeah. Way to go man. Baby steps. Millionaires paid off house. And you're young. How old are you?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm going to be 44 and I'm 39.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent.

[John Deloney]

Congratulations.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. So what happened seven years ago? Tell us about this Ramsey Journey thing you've been on. Well, I took a different job and I was running a truck up and down the road a lot with the.

[Jade Weshall]

Company and I was on, I mean.

[Dave Ramsey]

As much work as they could give me. I was taking it and I listening.

[Jade Weshall]

A lot of talk radio and heard this crazy guy on the radio and.

[Dave Ramsey]

The more and more I listened, the more and more I heard other people.

[Jade Weshall]

Do debt free screams and talk about.

[Dave Ramsey]

This weird thing of not having debt. It really piqued my interest. Yeah. So 288, was that all the house or was some of it other stuff?

[Jade Weshall]

Some of it was little consumer debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

She brought on when we got married. It was a lovely marriage gift, but. And then two small car loans. Okay, so you knocked those out pretty quick and then tore into the house. Tore into the house. Love it. Very cool.

[John Deloney]

So what'd you say to get Tara on on board with this guy that you heard on the radio?

[Jade Weshall]

You know we actually used FPU at our local church as almost like a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pre marriage thing, but she was on Board. And I think that was really our path to success was, you know, she was gung ho. She was willing to do every dollar and do everything else and just stay on a budget and work through to seeing that, you know what our goal and was to be debt free.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so you'd already heard of FPU through the church?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, I heard it on the radio show.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then we weren't attending that church at that time, but that was the closest facility to it, so we started.

[Jade Weshall]

You know, I kind of brought up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave Ramsey and, you know, we wanted.

[Jade Weshall]

To see what it was about and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Took fpu and, I mean, that was a great course to have. So, Tara, you went into financial peace because this truck driver talked you into it.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, basically.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you were in there, what did you see that made you decide where this is? Okay.

[Jade Weshall]

Well, I mean, there were other couples in there that shared their story, and they seemed happy. Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's okay.

[Jade Weshall]

I'm at the shoot.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's okay.

[Jade Weshall]

They seemed happy and successful, and it seemed manageable. The whole death snowball thing. Starting off small, building momentum.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. How's it feel to have no house payment, guys? Crazy. It's great. I have anxiety and, you know, always.

[Jade Weshall]

Kind of felt like I had to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stick with a certain job or do.

[Jade Weshall]

A certain thing because there's this big.

[Dave Ramsey]

House payment looming, and we never want to move or be out on the.

[Jade Weshall]

Streets or just have to deal with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So not having the house payment is.

[Jade Weshall]

Just such a relief.

[Dave Ramsey]

Knowing. Knowing if we want to stay, we can stay. Yeah.

[Jade Weshall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You own it.

[Jade Weshall]

God is great.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is. That's amazing.

[John Deloney]

What was the hardest part?

[Jade Weshall]

He worked a ton. I mean, day, night, just constantly working. Really, you know, pushing. Yeah, there was a lot of hours put into it. You know, like I said earlier, if it wasn't for her being on board.

[Dave Ramsey]

With it, it would have been a lot harder than it was. But, you know, with me working, sometimes.

[Jade Weshall]

If I had to work third shift.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or 16 hours or whatever it was, she kind of, again, saw the goal and just, you know, it wasn't. There was no complaining. She knew what we were doing or why I was doing it and what we were trying to achieve. Was it worth it?

[Jade Weshall]

Oh, yes, yes, yes. And, I mean, the EveryDollar app helps me constantly. To this day, I love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. I tell everybody about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you know, thank you. I appreciate that. But, you know, where you are and, you know, you're in control and it's a sustainable situation. And stinking house is paid for. Y' all are heroes, man. Way to go. And you've changed these little kids. Family tree. Well done. So how old are the kiddos? Bring them up and let's introduce them. What are their names and ages?

[Jade Weshall]

We have Ellie, who's nine, and Daniel is seven.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, very good. Good looking guys. Very cool stuff. So what's the first big thing you're going to do now that you're almost millionaires and you got a paid for house?

[Jade Weshall]

Well, we used this trip to come up here.

[Dave Ramsey]

We drove up and we stopped. She was always wanting to see the.

[Jade Weshall]

Biltmore, so we stopped at Biltmore and then spent the last couple days in the Smokies.

[Dave Ramsey]

The kids got to go to Dollywood.

[Jade Weshall]

So this was kind of our little family celebration. Making our way over here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Dollywood's a hidden gem. It's excellent.

[Jade Weshall]

We're right outside of Orlando and that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is the most amazing theme park we've been to. Yeah, very cool. Good for you guys. Very well done. Proud of you. Who was cheering you along along the way?

[Jade Weshall]

You know, I had some co workers.

[Dave Ramsey]

That, you know, that were inspirational to.

[Jade Weshall]

Me or actually owned the company I used to work for. And it was great, you know, being able to talk to them as being successful people.

[Dave Ramsey]

They were definitely Ramsey fans. They were pushing, they understood do it.

[Jade Weshall]

It was, it was great, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

So they, they definitely were inspirational for me. Yeah. Wow, that's good. Very cool stuff, guys. We're proud of you. Very well done. All right, it's Dustin and Tara, Daniel and ellie. Cocoa Beach, California area. 288,000 paid off, house and everything. We're looking at some 40 year old and almost millionaires will be very, very soon. And look at these beautiful children. Their whole lives are changed. Their family tree has been changed because dad paid a price and mom made it work where dad could pay a price. This is a team effort right here. Very well done. Proud of you guys. You're heroes, man. Excellent. Count it down, guys. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, three, two, one. We're debt free. Yeah.

[Jade Weshall]

Wow.

[John Deloney]

What a bump. 100,000 to 500,000 in seven years.

[Dave Ramsey]

He kicked it. Sheesh. So here's the thing. What's interesting in God's economy, it's just I'm positive that right now on Sirius XM or on podcast or maybe even YouTube, there's a truck driver out there, there that's not married, doesn't have two beautiful children and is listening to this former truck driver now in sales with two beautiful children and a beautiful Wife and a paid for house and almost a millionaire seven years later. That's called hope.

[John Deloney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

These people standing here, they personify hope. And that just got transferred to you out there. And I don't know who you are that you're driving right now, but I'm positive out of 40 million people that listening to this particular broadcast that at least one of he was driving a truck right this second, it might have.

[John Deloney]

Less than two hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars in debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, might have and might, you know. Yeah. So the thing is, and here's the trick. Daniel and Ellie can look back at this video several years from now and go, oh, that's when it happened. That's when the old man, the old lady did it. That's when everything turned the corner because they just left Biltmore.

[John Deloney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which is the Vanderbilts.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so somebody's got to be Old man Vanderbilt. Somebody's got to start it. Right? And you're looking at them, they just started it. That's how it starts right there. It's exactly how it starts. Somebody's got to be old man Rockefeller. Somebody's got to start it. Those things, they weren't born. Now that was a couple generations after we're born with money. But the original Commodore, he ain't got no money. That's, you know, that's. And that's where Biltmore comes from and, and that's where Vanderbilt University comes from. It's where the Rockefellers, you know, I mean, somebody's gotta start it. Why not you? This is the best place in the history of humanity. It's called the United States of America. For the little man to get ahead and become the next guy who's not the next gal who's not the little man. But it's your decision, Sa. Hey, we put some stuff together to help you because if you're trying to explain this Ramsey thing to a family member who doesn't understand or a friend that doesn't understand, it's hard to get it all out. They can't get it all in their brain. So what we did is we put Together the Ramsey101 playlist. It's free and it's easy to share and it covers the basics for somebody who's just trying to figure this Ramsey thing out. Stuff like the baby steps, the debt snowball, the emergency fund, working together with your spouse, all that kind of stuff. All these clips are on there and here's how you can share it. Click the link at the top of the show. Notes to open the Ramsey101 playlist on YouTube. Text it, DM it, send it in a group chat, Just say, hey, this is something that's helping me. I thought you might enjoy. If you're listening on the radio, we've got the playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel. So jump in on the YouTube channel and you can see the Ramsey 101 playlist. Think of at least one person in your life and share it with them. It's all completely free. It's just kind of a, I don't know, a compilation of best of, almost, not best of, not most entertaining or weirdest calls, but the ones that actually give you the information, show you what to do. Okay. And I think it'll be helpful to you. That's what our hope is. That's why we put it together. Robert's with us in Virginia. Hi Robert, how are you? Okay, Dave, thanks for asking. Sure. How you can we help? Well, I've got a question about chapter 13. I know that I've been listening to.

[Jade Weshall]

The show for a few months now.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I know that you say that bankruptcy is like a divorce, kind of a last ditch option. And that's kind of where I'm at right now. I don't know anything about divorce because I've never been married, but my home is. My second mortgage is currently in foreclosure. A sale date has been set. I got about five and a half, six weeks left before the sale date. I've been here once before, about seven years back when I had a. I had a business go under. And why are you behind on your second mortgage? Well, I got hit by a tree last year. I climb and cut trees for a living. Oh gosh. I'm about to turn 65 here in about two months. And last year in March, I got hit by about a 3,000 pound trunk. It's not the first time I've been injured on the job, but this one took me out for about two months and I fell behind on the primary and I kind of let the secondary go trying to catch up the primary just as soon as I got back to work. My.

[Jade Weshall]

I drive like a third 31 year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Old Ford pickup and, and that broke down and it, it took about five weeks to get it back on the road so I fell further behind. I won't go into all the, you know, the, the sad songs, but basically, are you okay now? I got permanent nerve damage up and down this right side of my body. But you know, everything else healed. So are you back to work? Yeah, I am back to work. Although my truck, you know, my truck just broke down again last week. I was trying to. You don't have an option of missing any more work. How much do you owe on the first mortgage? About 180. What do you owe on the second mortgage? Well, they say 55, which is weird because I only borrowed 52 and I've been paying on this house for almost 20 years.

[Jade Weshall]

Years.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I added up what I paid to them.

[Jade Weshall]

It's close to 90k that I've given them.

[Dave Ramsey]

But what's your interest rate on the second? Well, now it's low. It's like 375 in my primary is three.

[Jade Weshall]

Oh. But.

[Dave Ramsey]

Originally, when I bought this house, when you were working before the accident, did you make enough to pay both these mortgages? Yeah, usually.

[Jade Weshall]

But since I got over 60, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Started slowing down and during the winters I've been having a hard time keeping it. What's the house worth?

[Jade Weshall]

That's the thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's. It's really worth about what I owe on it. About 235,000? Yeah, 240 maybe. But they've got it hyper inflated on Zillow and stuff.

[Jade Weshall]

You know, they got it like 370.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's got some land and stuff, but the house hasn't had any updates in almost 20 years. So Zillow is not relevant. I'm, you know, but I'm. But I also think it might be worth more than you think it is. Well, I, the reason I think that is I don't think the second mortgage would have bothered to foreclose if it was only worth 235. They believe, they believe it's worth more. That's because the county had some new tax assessors out for a second. Mortgages don't go off of county assessments. They go off actual value because when they take the thing back, county assessment doesn't matter. They got to turn around, sell it and get their 55 grand out. Out of it. How far behind are you? Well, on the second one, I only owe them like $2,000, but they've added.

[Jade Weshall]

About two grand in lawyers fees.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's typical. That's a normal standard. That's not. And I'm two months behind on the primary right now. My, my thing was I was going.

[Jade Weshall]

To try to make enough money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like I said, I was here once before in 2018, and that's when I stopped doing what I was doing that was losing me money. And I borrowed a chainsaw from a buddy and I. My old climbing harness and ropes was about 30 years old. I hadn't climbed and cut in 30 years. And I started doing trees again and I made about $11,000 in five weeks and I was able to reinstate the mortgage. Now that's about what you're gonna have to do this time. But the problem is after you do that, I'm not sure you're making enough to keep it. Well, the thing is, I don't think I can make enough this time because the problem is, Dave, since the accident, I haven't been to.

[Jade Weshall]

Able.

[Dave Ramsey]

Able to work as much now. Can you do something else? Well, that's what I was, what I was planning.

[Jade Weshall]

I took some courses last year and.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got a certification. Another field that should be able to get me a job. It's not going to be super high paying at first though. It takes time to build up an income in that field.

[John Deloney]

What field is it?

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't really want to exactly say.

[Jade Weshall]

It's, it's. It's kind of not exactly health care.

[Dave Ramsey]

Related, but it's kind of along that line. I think you need to get into something that's steady and predictable soon. I agree with that. And I was planning on. Like I said, I was actually going.

[Jade Weshall]

To go and interview last week and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then my truck broke down. So now I'm. When you act, you know, I actually was outside earlier trying to get the truck running again. Okay. The reason I'm asking you all these questions is that chapter 13 is probably not going to work for you. It will stop the foreclose temporarily, but as soon as it does, you will have to start making payments on the first, on the second, and on the arrearage on both. All is built into the system. They get 100% of their money, the $2,000 lawyer fees, all the back payments, all the late fees. They get 100% of their money, including current payments. And you're having trouble even paying current payments. And so I don't, I don't think the child. And so if you go into a chapter 13 and you don't make the monthly payments that include the current payments plus payments on the back stuff, that's a lot for you. If you don't make those, they're going, they're going to kick you out of bankruptcy and you're going to be in foreclosure again. I understand that, Dave, but there's, it's.

[Jade Weshall]

Like if I, if I lose the.

[Dave Ramsey]

House, I've been fighting to keep this house for almost 20 years. If I lose it, I got.

[Jade Weshall]

I'll be 65 and home and penniless.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want you to be that. But the chapter, My point is chapter 13 doesn't solve your problem. It doesn't keep you from losing it. What keeps you from losing it is an income. Well, that's why I'm, I'm trying to get into this new line of work. It didn't sound, it didn't sound too promising to me. It's underpaid is what it sounded like. It starts off, it starts off slow. And I was also thinking maybe I would apply for Social Security early and add that to it. And. Yeah, I think that you got idea and I think you go down to Target and you start working 40 hours down there, $20 an hour.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean now pay that. They don't, they don't pay that well. Yeah, they do. They pay $20 an hour all over the nation. So is Walmart.

[Jade Weshall]

Not okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I've been down to Walmart and, and I've been looking at all the jobs. Everything here is $15 an hour.

[Jade Weshall]

You know, you can get 17 at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Some places, but there you go.

[Jade Weshall]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, I mean that's, you know, what you got right now is almost Nothing. You need $2,000 right now or $4,000 to get this thing stopped. And then you need to get the first mortgage current and you need to get those things and you need to run around like your hair's on fire and get those two things done and then you need to keep the house current. That's going to be a less strenuous plan to keep this house than the chapter 13 will be. And I'm telling you, the chapter 13 sounds like it's magical. It's not. It's going to put more strain on you the way it's structured because you have to pay 100% of the payments plus payments on all this back payments and you can't do that with the situation you just described to me. And you're gonna get booted back out and then they're gonna be coming down your throat and foreclosure again. So you have got to solve the income problem. And the best way to do it is now it's your only option that'll sell the house. And I like the other option option better. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washall, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality is my co host today. Lucy is with us in San Antonio. Hi, Lucy. How are you? Hi.

[Jade Weshall]

I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

Well, my question is, how do I move forward from the shame and regret from losing my 136,000 doll? Roth Ira.

[John Deloney]

How did you lose it?

[Jade Weshall]

I met a Christian woman at a Christian women's conference, and she started talking to me. She was on stage. She was one of the speakers. And. And so she started talking to me, and she just followed up with me. And, you know, people were asking her why she does what she does. She started crying and saying that she just wants. Wants to help people. And so she set up an appointment, followed up with me, and told me about her real estate investment opportunity, which basically, to my understanding, they buy apartment complexes, flip them, and she promised, basically guaranteed, double my money in five years. And if you do exactly what I tell you, you'll be a millionaire in, you know, maybe 10 years, which I was already on track to be a millionaire in 10 years. I don't know. I didn't think about that, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, Lucy, how old are you now?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm 47. And at the time when I met her, I was 44.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much money do you. You lost? 130,000. How much money do you have left?

[Jade Weshall]

So my husband and I, we got married two years ago. And with our combined finances now, we had. I had two rental properties. He had his house, I had mine. So we sold all the house. And with my teacher retirement and everything, we now have 640,000 in invested with a Dave Ramsey approved financial planner. And we have 50,000 in an emergency fund.

[John Deloney]

So how can we help today?

[Dave Ramsey]

She said, how do I get over?

[Jade Weshall]

I just. I don't trust my judgment anymore. I don't know how to move forward from this. I don't know how to stop looking back with the shame and regret. I. I just don't know what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you get your home, when someone burglarizes your home and they come in, you come home and the drawers are all open and they've been through everything and they stole your jewelry. It's trauma.

[Jade Weshall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And this is trauma.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're still describing this woman as Christian, and obviously she's not. She's obviously. She's obviously a con I artist. And even. Even the place where she was speaking is questionable because they let her on stage.

[Jade Weshall]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So there's nothing Christian about this. You thought it was at the time, but it wasn't. Okay. So.

[Jade Weshall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so when I went bankrupt and we lost everything because I was stupid. We lost a hundred percent of everything. You lost 130. You still got 600. But when I lost 100% of everything, I had to decide, okay, what is the definition of Dave? What's Dave's identity? Am I a bankrupt idiot, or am I a guy who chose to believe some lies called borrow all you want on real estate, nothing down real estate. Let's buy all the real estate we can by. And it bit me in the butt because the whole concept I believed was a lie. So I'm not stupid, but I did some stupid things. I've also done a bunch of smart things, okay? And so I have to decide. The windshield is larger than the rear view mirror, and that's called grace.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

So 32, 34 years ago, whatever it is, no, God, it's 36 years ago. Now. 1988, I filed bunch of bankruptcy. But that's not my defining moment. It's just the bottom of that valley that we went through because of my stupid choices wasn't Sharon's fault, wasn't the bank's fault. I signed up for it. The banks did some things wrong. Sharon did some things wrong. But 99% of the reason we lost all that money was me. So then I just got to decide, okay, am I going to walk in Grace. Grace towards myself and other people who have made mistakes. And I can. I can still call stupid stupid, but I don't have to call me stupid. Okay? You did. You got conned. Okay? For various reasons, I would want to look into my soul and ask what I felt. Why would I fall for this? Was I scared? Was I greedy? Why did I fall for a con? Because you got convicted, Pond. And, yeah, you've. In the story you told me you've done 26 things that were smart and one thing that was dumb.

[Jade Weshall]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you hear me?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty good ratio.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, when you put it like that. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I mean, you're sitting out. You're gonna be a millionaire. You're only in your 40s. I mean, you. You made. You've done one really stupid, stupid thing. 26 really smart things.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I bet you you won't fall for anything like that ever again.

[Jade Weshall]

Never again. And now I can smell it a mile away. I. I can. I look at people online now, and I don't wonder what the secret sauce is anymore. I know it's all a facade. I know it's a lie.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go. There you go.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, but. But now we're trying to Decide whether to buy a house or not or wait. And I'm scared to make another decision in. And I'm just kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think that. I think it'd be normal if you had a car wreck. You're scared to drive. Yeah, but it doesn't mean we don't drive. Yeah, walking's hard, so. Yeah, get back on the horse, kiddo.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're smarter. You're smarter than this one decision.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm smarter than the 26 decisions that caused me to go bankrupt. I'm smarter than. And I learned from it. I've never done it again. Quite the opposite. And I've become a multi bazillionaire since then and. And helped a whole lot of people become millionaires. Tens of millions of them since then. Teaching. Teaching the lessons I learned from that. And you just help some people telling this story so they don't get conned.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Quit looking for something for nothing. There's no shortcut to any place that's worth going. The best way to get rich quick is Don't.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the lessons you've learned.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, definitely. I. So now we've been looking at all of our housing options and we've moved into this tiny rv and we're just saving money. And I'm planning to start a business. I have 6,000 set aside to start a business because I really was ready to change careers. And. And so now, you know, there's the rough houses around here that are about 170,000. They probably need a good 50, $60,000 of work. And then there's everything in between, all the way to the new houses that are 320,000. And we're going to be here for the next 20 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You might be. You don't know that. You don't know what? That you didn't know 20 years ago you was going to be sitting here. So we don't know that for sure. But get your house. I don't care. I trust your judgment more than you do. I think you and your husband need to get out of an rv. I can tell you that that's not gonna last. I'll be there about 20 minutes. Get something else.

[John Deloney]

Some people are RV people.

[Dave Ramsey]

I am not.

[John Deloney]

I'm not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not a cat person, not an RV person. Just saying.

[Jade Weshall]

Hey, guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, there's a better way.

[Jade Weshall]

When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life, insur insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection and more. And when you're ready to get the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Coverage you need, you can connect with.

[Jade Weshall]

A Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go to ramseysolutions.com insurance ramseysolutions.com Insurance.

[Jade Weshall]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Today's Ramsey show question of the Day sponsored by why Refi? When you're tired of making no progress on your defaulted private student loans, why Refi can help you explore a fresh start with with a low fixed rate refinancing, it's time to stop spinning your wheels. Let Y Refi help you go to Y Refi Slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[John Deloney]

All right. Today's question comes from Jared in Nevada. He says, my wife and I have been married 50 years. We've both worked over the years, but I always did a little side work to make a little extra cash that I gambled with. We both retired last year. We have a $900,000 house that's paid for. We make about $10,500 a month in retirement and Social Security and have about $450,000 in our IRAs. No credit card or car payments. We are both doing okay, but I really miss the gambling. But at 70, I don't want to have to work to gamble and I don't want to touch any of our savings that we live on. Should I just give up gambling or do you have any ideas that will work? Well, I wish I knew how much you were spending on gambling. That would give a little bit more insight to this question. I always view gambling, gambling in the context of I'm going to Las Vegas and I'm going to gamble X amount of dollars that I budgeted for ahead of time. And so for that purpose, I view it as a, as a line item for entertainment. That's kind of how I view it. But at the same time, Dave, I put a very small percentage of money towards that. I, if you're talking about high thousands, I don't think that you have obviously the margin to do something like that. If you're talking, talking about, you know, just going and spending a hundred bucks on something, I, you know, I, I wish I knew exactly because a lot of people have gambling problems. So I don't know how much you're saying if you can't handle it in your 10,000, $500 a month budget, then it's too much and you can't do it. That's what I would say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, he doesn't want to put it in there.

[John Deloney]

That's what I'm saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

He couldn't handle. He said, does it. He doesn't.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, but I think that if he's thinking it's enough that he would have to dip into something savings. That's too much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I agree with that. Agree with that.

[John Deloney]

So if it can't fit into your monthly budget as a line item of fun or entertainment, then it's too much. So let that be your guide is what I'd say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I have trouble commenting intelligently on it because I get zero pleasure from that. So I don't do it. It's just not fun to me. I work so hard and it's not fun to me to give my money to somebody else. And, and that's not entertaining to me. It's quite the opposite. It's stress inducing. So I just don't do it. I've never been a gambler. My wife put a quarter in a slot machine one time on a cruise when we were in our 20s and she hit. We got $250 worth of quarters and that's probably cost me 10 grand over the years. Cause she's still looking for that head again.

[John Deloney]

That one time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that one time she put that 250 back and then she's always gonna put some more. There's an artist, she's not a gambler. She's like. She's a little bit like Rachel in that regard. So. But now you don't want to have a gambling problem for sure. And I kind of question, you know, I get it, but I don't understand, you know, that you and I don't even understand when you and Rachel call it entertainment. It's not to me because I just, I just don't understand it. So anyway, having said that, it should be a small line item in your monthly budget, maximum. And if you can't get over it with that, you got other issues.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, that's what I'd say. I mean, how much can you. I mean, don't get me wrong, some.

[Dave Ramsey]

People can really go in, but you know, you're making $10,000 a month. They put a couple hundred bucks a month in there for gambling. And instead of, you know, whatever else it is people do for entertainment for a couple hundred bucks a month that make $10,000 a month and are 70 years old, worth a million and a Half dollars, you know, so you can afford to spend $200 a month on some kind of entertainment. If this is what your choice is, that's fine. But no, you don't need to be dropping five grand a month than this.

[John Deloney]

I do feel like. I mean, this is being judgmental because, again, everybody's there. I just feel like gambling that often probably isn't good for you. Like once a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm curious why it's entertaining. I mean, you know, why is it I enjoy this? What? What is it? What is it you get? But people do, they enjoy. It's a rush. The risk it causes.

[John Deloney]

I like sitting at the table. You have a drink, you're talking to the guy next to you like you're playing blackjack. It's just a. I can sit at.

[Dave Ramsey]

A table and have a drink and talk to the guy next to me and not look, lose money. Sometimes it's a different table, but I don't have to lose money to do that. So. Because you never get up from those tables wealthier than you sat down. And so it's just.

[John Deloney]

You got it. You got to know when to hold them and when to fold them. That is for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

I folded them like 38 years ago. So Alexis is with us in Las Vegas. Speaking of Vegas. Hey, Alexis, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

I bet you I'm doing good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

So I'm pretty new to all of your wisdom. Started seeing some videos pop up on my Facebook. Kind of dove right in. Finished reading Total money makeover. Borrowed it from the library, finished it in a few days. And my husband's reading it currently, and he's getting excited about it too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Jade Weshall]

We would be on baby step number two because we have a little bit in our savings account from our tax return that we haven't put to anything yet. But the problem or the question I have is I am ready to, like, feel some pain, you know, for a bit until. Until the debt goes away. But my dilemma is that next year is my 10 year high school reunion. I know that might not matter to some people, but I have been looking forward to it. And my home state is kind of expensive to get back to.

[John Deloney]

What is it?

[Jade Weshall]

And so what is the state?

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Jade Weshall]

Hawaii.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. And so I guess my question is, is this, like, is this something that is just off the table? I just need to sacrifice it? Or is it something that if we, since it's a year away, if it's something that we were to include in our budget, is still Reasonable.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, are you going to be out of debt by then?

[Jade Weshall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

How much do you have?

[Jade Weshall]

So I've got or we not I, but me and my husband combined have about 11,000 in like, like two credit cards and a line of credit. And then the, then the bulk of my debt is student loans, which is 96 for a useless degree.

[John Deloney]

What is, is the degree? Just curious.

[Jade Weshall]

Theater.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household? What's your household income?

[Jade Weshall]

So right now my husband works hourly and he's getting 22 an hour plus overtime. And then I, I'm a stay at home mom. But I do have like a kind of a creative side hustle that I can. I've been bringing some money in that previously was fun month, fun money, but now I'm like, no, I can just hustle and, and make it.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you took Dave Ramsey and the total money makeover and all the stuff you've been learning out of the picture, you can't afford to go to Hawaii. It makes $22.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y' all got no money.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not sure how you can. But I'm not sure how you can budget Hawaiian plane tickets from Vegas, much less staying over there for two people out of a $22 an hour budget.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, we would stay with family there, so we wouldn't have to pay for a hotel or anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's airline ticket? Right.

[Jade Weshall]

Probably about 600 tickets. Another thing that I was considering is, is it something that if I went just by myself and I didn't stay long, like would that be something budgetable or would that still be off the table? A lot of costs while there would be cut down due to staying with family. But. But the plane tickets is the biggest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're gonna have to drop 1200 bucks and 1200 bucks in your old world's a lot of money.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So some things are going to have to change during this calendar year for this to be logical for you all to do. Regardless of how plugged in or fired up you are about the Ramsey stuff. Stuff. Okay.

[Jade Weshall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like what's his career path? Is he working on getting a better job?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. So he was, he was working in the restaurant industry and ended up leaving that. And he actually did some training in welding. And so right now his job is. It's. He's doing some welding of his job, but the job itself is not like fully. So he probably could.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he needs to work on doing something to double his income. He's making what a 17 year old can make at Target. And this is not how you set up Hawaiian vacations. You can't go regardless of Ramsay. That's just the math doesn't work.

[Jade Weshall]

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird. Prices start at $749 per a couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail] events.

[Dave Ramsey]

Foreign investing can seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be. Whether you're a complete beginner or looking for next level strategies, the Ramsey Investing Hub has tools and information that can help you invest with confidence. Go to ramseysolutions.com investing or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Mark's in Canada. Hey Mark, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

Good. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

I just want to say it's been a pleasure talking with you guys. Very new to this Ramsey solution and I have got a question about I work on a family farm. It's a tender fruit farm and I've been working here for quite a while. I'm 33 years old. I work came right out of college college and there has been zero talk of transitioning ownership. I don't know if it's maybe wrong of me to push this conversation, but I've brought it up a couple times and it's just kind of been not necessarily shut down, but I guess just push back. I'm wondering if you have any recommendations for me on how to proceed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we've studied family business and succession planning for about 20 years and we've seen a lot of families do it poorly and we've seen a few families do it well and we've started trying to establish the principles of that because I'm a family business and four years ago after 14 years, my son Daniel moved into the president's office and for the first time since he's working, worked here. He reports to me. I'm the CEO and at that time we took 5050 leadership of Ramsey. Today it's down to 8020 with the gradually moving me out of the operational leadership of this company and staying in this seat because I want to keep doing This, I like doing this. So this is my retirement. I'm going to do this till it don't make sense and they have permission to take me off only when I don't make sense. So. And we know what happens when people don't make sense and don't get away from the microphone. It's not good. So anyway, we're not going to do that. But yeah. So we've studied this and a couple of things I can tell you. The. Is your dad the first generation?

[Jade Weshall]

No, my dad is the. He'd be the third generation. Wow. Sign the fourth. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so it's kind of assumed and in the air that it's going to be handed off in the family. Right?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, I. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have siblings by my.

[Jade Weshall]

I do. I have five siblings.

[Dave Ramsey]

And who else is. Who's. How many generation. How many people in your dad's generation are the owners?

[Jade Weshall]

My dad and my uncle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how many cousins have you got with an uncle?

[Jade Weshall]

I have one cousin who is involved. So right now it's just my dad, my uncle, myself and my cousins.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your other siblings are not involved in the business?

[Jade Weshall]

Not at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

But your assumption is that the non involved ones won't have any ownership?

[Jade Weshall]

That would be my assumption.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does that. Was that the model that they used with your dad and his brother?

[Jade Weshall]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's a fair assumption then. That's not unusual, particularly in farming. It's not unusual. All right. So I think the. I don't think it is unreasonable for you. As a matter of fact, I think it's very reasonable of you to want to know what the flip's going on here and it needs to be said out loud. So here's what happens when the managing generation does not build out a long term gradual succession plan and announce it to the world. Your other team members don't know what's going to happen when the old man dies. They think the thing's going to fold up like a Walmart tent or Junior's going to get it. And we don't know if Junior's competent or not. So the other team members are worried about that. Your vendors that you sell, your customers that you sell to are worried what's going to happen when the old man dies because they don't know if Junior's competent or not and they're going to be able to get a supply off your farm. The vendors that you buy from, they don't know what they're signing up for dealing with you guys. Because your dad has got to BE Was he 65?

[Jade Weshall]

He is 62.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, so you guys are 10 years late talking about this.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. And that's my fear. And then the other thing is, is I don't know how I can ever afford to transition. I don't know what that your dad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buy it company is large.

[Jade Weshall]

So my dad grew it from very small business to a very large farm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I think you need to talk about it. You know, you got me over here, you got me over here working on a tractor and I can't tell how I'm gonna be able to buy this thing or if you're gonna give it to me because we haven't talked about it.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I can't sit here in the dirt and not know anymore. Well, I need to know something because I may need to go. I might. Maybe I need to go get a job.

[John Deloney]

And what about the uncle, does he talk about it?

[Jade Weshall]

Yes, the uncle's more willing and there's. He's trying to bring up profit sharing, but it just doesn't ever seem to go anywhere.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so your uncle is also trying to push the conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you sit down with the two of them and you have a frank conversation. It says this, you men are incredible. You have built an incredible business. Not having a plan to systematically communicate to me and the rest of the team and our customers what's going to happen here is going to be the doom of this business. And I'm not okay with that. I want to honor all of the hard work you've done. I want to honor you great men by being able to continue your life's work here. And I want to pay you honor. But the way I'm going to pay you honor is that we need a game plan, boys. And I don't have to have a of ton tomorrow. And I don't have to have control tomorrow. I'm not trying to take over. This is not a coup. But I am not going to sit here and as you fall back in the grave, toss the keys out because that'll doom the business. One thing we discovered, Mark, as we studied all these companies is that and farms included, that if they literally grab their chest and toss the keys out as they fall back in the grave, the percentage of those businesses that are open four years later is a whole. Almost none. The more gradual the succession plan, the higher the probability of the continued operation of the business, the sustainability of it, because you doom the place by an 80 year old still sitting there grasping control because their identity is so tied into the fact that they're the boss and now they got a 60 year old son who's neutered. This is what we've discovered and it's why I've been so systematic. I'm only 64, dude. And I'm almost out of Ramsey. Other than the on air parts, okay, I mean I'm still around. I'm still a CEO. I still, I'm still in control. But the day to day operational things, Daniel and our leadership team are handling about 80% of it these days. And I could, I could easily still be doing it. I love doing it, I love running it. But it's not good for my son, it's not good for my customers and it's not good for my business for Dave's little boy, identity issues to get in the way of all that crap. And so, you know, it's time to be a man, you know, and that's what this comes down to. So I don't know if this will help you or not. Play it back for your dad. I understand how he's holding on, but his lack of communication and lack of laying out a game plan is bad leadership. It's bad leadership and it's not fun to turn loose the stuff that you love for the good of the thing. But you know, it's kind of like, you know when your kid goes off to college, the last one went off to college. It's like, ah, we're done. It's kind of sad and but here's the trick. You hope we're done. We don't want them to come back. You know, we don't want failure to launch.

[Jade Weshall]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Failure to launch is not success.

[John Deloney]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you know, you know I'm sad that you're leaving, but be gone with you.

[Jade Weshall]

Hey guys, you know what I love about summer? All the fun yeses. Yes to pool parties, yes to snow cones and yes for all the fun in the sun moments that you can have with your family. But summer goes to fast and so does summer spending. And if you're not paying attention, you're going to look up from your slushy and wonder where is all my money going? That's why I love the EveryDollar app. It's so simple. It helps you create a custom budget and give every dollar a job to do. And let me tell you, you'll know exactly what is happening with your money and that gives you such freedom and guilt free spending. So do yourself and your summer a favor. Go download everydollar for free. In the App Store or Google Play. Today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, 2nd Corinthians 4, 16. There therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. Thomas Edison said, if we did all the things we are capable of, we would literally astound ourselves.

[Jade Weshall]

I love that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's pretty cool. Rachel is with us in New York City. Hi Rachel, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Jay. Thank you for taking my call today. Big fan of the show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. Thank you. How can we help?

[Jade Weshall]

So my husband and I, we make a decent income. Our take home is just a little over 9,000amonth and we're currently on baby steps 3B while simultaneously doing baby steps 4 and 5. We currently have 34,000 saved towards our down payment, but the homes around us are around 900,000 to $1,000,000. Even if we look further out 30 minutes or an hour, the homes are still in the 700 to $800,000 price range. There is the option to purchase a co op which is much more affordable, but our friends and family advise against it due to strict HOA board rules and us not technically owning the property, but the shares of it. Ideally, we would like to spend no more than $3,000 on the mortgage, property taxes and insurance included. But according to the mortgage calculator on the Ramsey website, we would need to save 500,000 towards a down payment in order to make this happen. My question is, should we go the co op route and then upgrade to a home later down the line, or should we just continue to save money in a high yield savings account for the next 15, 20 years or so to pay for a home full in cash?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, to start with 15 or 20 years, you're extrapolating your existing income with no raises and that's not realistic.

[Jade Weshall]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's a wrong set of assumptions to do the formula. So you're exaggerating that the co op in New York, in Manhattan, is not an unusual way to buy property at all. Anywhere else in America it would be highly unusual. But there it's normal. The thing that you have to be aware of and that your friends and family or whoever's bringing up is what the HOA bylaws are and what's governing this thing. Because where you can get sideways on a co op is if it's misgoverned and then you've got a real mess on your hands and you don't get the appreciation then because your HOA fees and stuff go through the roof because of Mismanagement, no pun intended. And if the HOA fees get out of control, the value goes away because nobody wants to buy it. And so what you've got to do is get something in a very predictable environment where, okay, I can look at the HOA fees and I can look at the operations statements for the last five years, and I see a very steady environment. And you look and say, okay, the use and the resale and so forth in these bylaws is not so restrictive that I hate living there. Okay? Because some of these places get very militaristic, don't they?

[Jade Weshall]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what you don't. I mean, you don't want to lose the joy of being there just because everybody's, you know, it's hoa, completely on steroids and out of control. So if you can get something where the HOA is reasonably operated in terms of the environment and the lifestyle around it, the human beings dealing with it, and that they've been very steady, it's okay if it increases because costs have increased, but that the, you know, the increases are reasonable over the last five years and the. In other words, you get all these indications in your due diligence that the operations of the HoA are done properly and efficiently. Then if you do all that, then a co op is as good as a condo is as good as a fee simple. Because technically in a condominium, you're in a very similar situation somewhere else in America. If you bought a condominium, you know, you're buying into a similar thing to a co op, it's a little different, but you still got the same issues there. And if you buy into. I'm in a single family in a golfing community that's got all these other expenses associated with the community. So if they mismanage that thing, they can destroy the value of my freestanding single family because they run the dadgum costs up and it makes it unappealing to look live there for resale. And so that you can run into that with anytime you've got an HOA of any kind involved. But just study that and watch that. And I think you're okay to move into the co op co ops again, if you've never done deals in New York City or don't know about deals in New York City, the co op is a very weird transaction.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I'm not, I've never heard of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's as prevalent as condominiums in other places.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

In other words, it's, it's not unusual at all there. It's very normal. And I personally don't have a problem with the way they're structured Again. I'm going to look at it though. If I buy a condominium, I've got a bunch of condos. We own probably 15 condos that are rentals. And one of the things before we bought into those, not only were we looking for a deal because they were investment properties, but we're also looking at how the dadgum thing's managed. Are these HOA fees going to make me wish I'd own it? You know, because they take all my rental profits by the time they with their screwed up sideways management stuff. Kathy is with us in Albany, New York. Hey Kathy, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

Hi. I'm fine and I hope you are the same.

[Dave Ramsey]

We are.

[Jade Weshall]

Good afternoon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Afternoon.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, doing okay, but in the middle of a decision making process and really having a hard time time with it. I'm 74 and my husband is 82. We've been over the years not very good about saving. We've been giving, we've been doing a lot of giving and that has brought us to a place where we really don't have anything except our monthly and yearly income, our pension, Social Security. And I'm living in what was a childhood home that I did inherit, but we put money into it. We took out a mortgage. The mortgage is roughly a remaining of 260 and the house right now is probably worth somewhere around 740 to 795,000. But it's a difficult place for us to be in because my husband's had a lot of health issues and again it's a family home and I would, I really kind of don't know where to go for what we're paying here now. And like I said, we have debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so how much, how much debt have you got? Just the house?

[Jade Weshall]

No, approximately 60,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

On what?

[Jade Weshall]

Lines of credit and credit card debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why currently, what did you buy?

[Jade Weshall]

That's a good question. Well, basically, you know, because we had no, no savings or anything. The bills that we have coming in here and what goes out so you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can'T live on your income.

[John Deloney]

How much is the pension and the Social Security together each month roughly?

[Jade Weshall]

For each month it's around 6,000.

[John Deloney]

And how much is the mortgage?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much your mortgage payment?

[Jade Weshall]

About 1200.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so where's the rest of the money going to?

[Jade Weshall]

The debt? Taxes. Taxes. Taxes are high up here. Land taxes, school taxes are high. Health insurance is high. We have a car insurance. Then you have your oil and propane bill. Lots Lots of, you know, the, the Internet, the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Kathy, I don't. I don't want to run out of time and the clock's bearing down on me. I'm so sorry. I wish I could take two hours with you and because this is an important decision. So ultimately you guys have got to get your budget to back balance. What you're describing is you can't sustain with what you're doing. Something has to change for you to sustain and that's either an income increase or an outgo decrease. And so you're probably looking at selling the house if you don't increase your income somehow. And you can just smile and say, you know, when we gave all that money away, we gave away the house because it's one of the things we can gave away. And you didn't technically give it away, but you left yourself in a position where you couldn't keep it. And that's, you know, that's what, that's where you set yourself up to be. And I'm so sorry. I hope you can figure out some way to get this budget to balance and make it sustainable and you could keep it. But it doesn't sound like it's fun for you anymore. I'm sorry. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace Christ. Jesus.

[Jade Weshall]

Hey you guys. I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsey show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want you to thank tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey101 YouTube playlist. A quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's inside, what the baby steps are and why they actually work, how the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast. And how to build wealth and invest for the future and so much more. So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it, text it, send it in a group chat. Just say hey, I thought this might help because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One Share one playlist. Playlist. One step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share the Ramsey show and let's help someone out there start winning with money.