Your Financial Journey Is a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Your Financial Journey Is a Marathon, Not a Sprint"

Release Date: March 5, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network (Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, George Camel)

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey alongside co-hosts Rachel Cruz and George Camel address various callers seeking advice on navigating their financial and personal lives. The central theme revolves around viewing financial journeys as long-term endeavors, akin to marathons, rather than quick sprints. The discussion emphasizes strategic financial planning, relationship management, and maintaining balance between financial goals and personal well-being.

---

Caller Highlights

1. Latonya's Relationship and Relocation Dilemma [01:03 – 06:48]

Situation: Latonya from Michigan seeks advice on whether to wait for her boyfriend to secure a job in Michigan before moving in together or to relocate sooner. They have been in a relationship for two years, and she currently lives with her father post-divorce.

Key Discussions:

• Marriage Before Cohabitation:
  Dave Ramsey [02:43]: "I would get married before I moved in together."
  Emphasizes the importance of formalizing the relationship through marriage before combining households.

• Rachel Cruz’s Insight [03:32]:
  Highlights the benefits of marrying and then moving in together to form a strong family unit, citing research that married couples who cohabitated after marriage often report higher happiness and stability.

• George Camel’s Support [05:41]:
  Encourages timely actions such as getting engaged, married, securing a job, and renting an apartment to streamline the transition.

• Dave Ramsey's Advice [06:38]:
  Reinforces moving out only after the boyfriend has secured a job, ensuring financial stability before cohabitation.

Conclusion: Latonya is advised to prioritize marriage before merging their lives financially and physically, ensuring a solid foundation for their future together.

---

2. Shantae’s Probate and Financial Crisis After Tragedy [10:32 – 19:59]

Situation: Shantae from Atlanta deals with the aftermath of her daughter’s tragic death and her husband's murder-suicide. She has custody of her grandchildren and is struggling with probate issues related to a house in Texas, currently costing her $20,000 in fees.

Key Discussions:

• Prioritizing Probate [12:24 – 16:44]:
  Dave Ramsey [12:38]: "You're missing my point. If you sell the house, you get $100,000 in your pockets."
  Urges Shantae to prioritize selling the inherited house to alleviate financial burdens.

• Action Steps [15:06 – 16:28]:
  Dave advises contacting Ramsey trusted real estate agents to find a probate attorney and expedite the sale of the property to secure necessary funds.

• Rachel Cruz’s Support [16:44 – 18:10]:
  Emphasizes the importance of Shantae taking decisive action to relieve financial stress and improve her situation.

Conclusion: Shantae is strongly encouraged to actively pursue the sale of the inherited house with professional assistance to mitigate her financial strain and focus on her family’s well-being.

---

3. Jim’s Job Change Consideration [28:19 – 29:59]

Situation: Jim from Des Moines, Iowa, contemplates changing jobs to save $750 monthly by moving closer to home, despite concerns about the stability of the new position as an auto body technician.

Key Discussions:

• Evaluating Financial Benefits [29:04 – 29:14]:
  Dave Ramsey: Questions the downside of the job change, highlighting potential savings.

• Income Stability Concerns [29:33 – 29:44]:
  Jim worries whether the new job offers consistent work, despite a slight pay increase.

• Advice on Negotiation and Assurance [29:59 – 30:26]:
  Encourages Jim to negotiate with the new employer to ensure financial security if work is inconsistent.

Conclusion: Jim is advised to seek assurances from the prospective employer regarding consistent work and to negotiate terms that ensure financial stability before making the job transition.

---

4. Amy’s Relationship and Financial Coordination [32:13 – 40:49]

Situation: Amy from New York City grapples with balancing her engagement plans, responsibilities as a single mother, and her fiancé’s reluctance to merge finances before marriage.

Key Discussions:

• Importance of Marriage Before Combining Finances [34:22 – 35:10]:
  Dave Ramsey [35:01]: Highlights the necessity of marriage to formalize the financial and personal union.

• Relationship Counseling and Decision Making [37:10 – 39:53]:
  Advocates for marriage counseling and decisive action to either fully commit through marriage or separate, emphasizing the impact on their children and financial progress.

• Rachel Cruz’s Perspective [40:12 – 40:49]:
  Reinforces the need for Amy and her fiancé to make clear decisions regarding their marriage and financial integration.

Conclusion: Amy is guided to prioritize marriage before merging finances and encouraged to seek counseling to address underlying relationship tensions, ensuring a stable environment for their children.

---

5. Philip’s Divorce Settlement and IRA Management [53:25 – 63:31]

Situation: Philip, a 55-year-old widower in New York City, seeks advice on managing a $1.2 million Simple IRA amidst health issues that prevent him from working.

Key Discussions:

• Reducing Burn Rate and Relocating [54:01 – 56:02]:
  Dave suggests relocating to a more affordable area near loved ones to lower living expenses and manage the burn rate effectively.

• Seeking Professional Financial Assistance [58:08 – 59:26]:
  Recommends utilizing Ramsey’s SmartVestor Pros to find a financial advisor who can provide strategic tax and investment advice tailored to Philip’s situation.

• Tax Implications and Withdrawal Strategies [60:44 – 61:57]:
  Advises Philip on the tax consequences of IRA withdrawals and the importance of strategic planning to sustain his finances.

Conclusion: Philip is advised to relocate to a less expensive area, utilize professional financial services to optimize his IRA withdrawals, and develop a sustainable financial plan to manage his funds effectively despite his inability to work.

---

6. George and Megan’s Debt-Free Journey [63:31 – 72:37]

Situation: George and Megan from Indianapolis share their experience of paying off $300,000 in student loans over six years while increasing their income from $100,000 to $250,000 annually.

Key Discussions:

• Debt Repayment Strategy [63:43 – 65:27]:
  Emphasizes the importance of consistent budgeting using tools like the EveryDollar app and staying committed to debt repayment goals.

• Overcoming Challenges [66:08 – 67:11]:
  Discusses the difficulty of maintaining focus over an extended period and balancing family responsibilities with financial goals.

• Celebrating Milestones [67:50 – 72:37]:
  Highlights the emotional and financial relief upon achieving debt-free status, underscoring the significance of patience and perseverance.

Conclusion: George and Megan’s story exemplifies the effectiveness of disciplined budgeting and consistent effort in achieving substantial debt reduction, inspiring listeners to remain committed to their financial goals.

---

7. Jim’s Vehicle and Dating Concerns [43:40 – 51:31]

Situation: Jim from Houston, Texas, a 40-year-old widower with no debt or children, debates whether to invest $5,000 to $10,000 in a new car to improve his dating prospects, based on feedback that his old truck negatively impacts his dating experiences.

Key Discussions:

• Assessing the Need for a New Car [44:21 – 46:00]:
  Dave Ramsey [44:51 – 45:35]: Advises Jim that while a better car may improve first impressions, investing in a car solely for dating purposes is superficial and may attract the wrong type of partner.

• Underlying Relationship Values [46:13 – 47:44]:
  Rachel Cruz and Dave emphasize that genuine relationships are built on character rather than possessions, suggesting that dismissive behavior based on a vehicle indicates incompatibility.

• Final Guidance [48:24 – 51:31]:
  Encourages Jim to consider purchasing a better car to reflect his financial success and to focus on attracting partners who value his character over his possessions.

Conclusion: Jim is advised to procure a more presentable vehicle to enhance his personal image while recognizing that meaningful relationships are founded on deeper qualities than material possessions.

---

8. Latonya’s Husband’s Financial Obsession [75:18 – 83:44]

Situation: Latonya from Birmingham, Alabama, expresses concern over her husband’s intense focus on financial goals, which is adversely affecting their mental health and relationship.

Key Discussions:

• Identifying the Problem [75:25 – 77:00]:
  Latonya explains her husband’s obsessive behavior towards financial management, leading to stress and a strained relationship.

• Dave’s Immediate Advice [77:00 – 79:37]:
  Suggests re-evaluating their budgeting approach to align with the appropriate baby steps, emphasizing intentionality over intensity and incorporating lifestyle enjoyment into their financial plans.

• Rachel’s Perspective [79:37 – 83:44]:
  Highlights the importance of balancing financial responsibility with personal well-being, advocating for a shift from restrictive saving to intentional spending that includes flexibility for family enjoyment.

Conclusion: Latonya and her husband are encouraged to adopt a balanced budgeting strategy that allows for financial growth while preserving their mental health and relationship harmony, transitioning from intense restriction to intentional financial planning.

---

Key Takeaways

• View Financial Goals as a Marathon:
  Building wealth and achieving financial stability require long-term commitment and strategic planning.

• Prioritize Relationships and Communication:
  Financial decisions deeply impact personal relationships. Open communication and prioritizing marriage before merging finances can lead to stronger, more stable partnerships.

• Seek Professional Guidance:
  Utilizing trusted financial advisors and leveraging resources like the EveryDollar app can streamline debt repayment and financial planning.

• Balance Financial Responsibility with Personal Well-being:
  Striking a balance between saving aggressively and enjoying life’s moments is crucial for maintaining mental health and relationship quality.

• Celebrate Milestones:
  Acknowledging and celebrating progress, no matter how small, fosters motivation and a sense of accomplishment on the financial journey.

---

Notable Quotes

• Dave Ramsey on Marriage and Cohabitation [02:24]:
  "I would get married before I moved in together."

• Rachel Cruz on Relationship Research [03:23]:
  "We're going to make this engagement faster... it just, it makes the process smoother."

• Dave Ramsey on Probate Action [12:38]:
  "If you sell the house, you get $100,000 in your pockets."

• George Camel on Debt Repayment [65:43]:
  "We started off with little bit by little bit and we got it done."

• Dave Ramsey on Balancing Finances and Life [81:07]:
  "If you're gonna start winning with money, you have to get on a budget."

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Ramsey Show underscores the importance of viewing financial goals through a long-term lens, emphasizing strategic planning, relationship prioritization, and maintaining balance to ensure both financial success and personal well-being. Through real-life caller scenarios, Dave Ramsey and his team provide actionable advice tailored to diverse financial challenges, reinforcing the show's belief that anyone can achieve financial control and wealth with the right mindset and tools.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't miss our virtual event happening tonight. I'm sharing my personal playbook for investing and real estate. Get your [e-mail] events. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality, co host of the Smart Money Happy Hour with Mr. George Camel on the Ramsey Networks and my daughter, she's my co host. Today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Latonya is with us in Michigan. Hey Latonya, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Latonya]

Hi Dave and Rachel. Thank you for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Latonya]

I was calling to ask. Me and my boyfriend have been together for about two years. He lives there in Springfield in Spring Hill, Tennessee. And I live in Michigan. And we've discussed getting married and he has plans on relocating to Michigan but he's not willing to relocate without securing a job first. And he's been applying but his lease ends in June. And I'm just wondering if you think it's a good idea to wait for him to secure a job to come to Michigan to find a place together or if I should move out. I live with my dad. Me and my daughter moved in after I got divorced. And so I was just wondering what you both think.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm a little bit confused. So he's, do I think he ought to come to Michigan without a job? Is that the question?

[Latonya]

Well, no, he doesn't. Well, I'm asking if you think I should move out of my dad's house like before he secures a job here or if I should just wait until he does secure a job here and me and him move in somewhere together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I think you know you're asking me, so I'm going to tell you. I would get married before I moved in together. Well, before you move in together, yes.

[Latonya]

Like, like, but once he, once he comes. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you engaged?

[Latonya]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Latonya]

He hasn't asked me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, we're getting these things out of order as far as I'm concerned. I'm an old school guy, so my daughter is sitting next to me. If my daughter called me like this, I'd be going, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to get these things in the right order. Okay. And so we're going to say, okay, well, you said you have a, you said you have a daughter.

[Latonya]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You would not Tell her to move in with a guy that she wasn't married to, would you?

[Latonya]

No, I would tell her to get married first, but that, that is our plan. It's just like I live with my.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dad might be your plan. It ain't his.

[Latonya]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I think, I think, I think what's. So to answer your question, just like point blank, and then maybe we can kind of backpedal and talk through more of the why. But no, I would say stay. Are you, are you paying rent with your dad or are you just living there?

[Latonya]

No.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Yeah, so I, I would live there with your daughter. He needs to come move rent somewhere, find a job once he's stable or feels, you know that well enough to be able to say, okay, yes, now we're going to get engaged. You guys have been dating for a long period of, you know, two years. You're both adults. You probably know. Yeah, we will, we can make this engagement faster. We don't be engaged for three years. Right. We can have a wedding. It may not be an extravagant wedding, but we'll get married. And then the next step then would be okay. Now we have formed a family unit and we're going to live as the, as that. And I think the problem is so often, like, we fast forward that process. And what's difficult too is we have found over and over and over and over and over again. And even more recent research has come out to show, like, even from, not even from a financial perspective, but just a quality of life perspective, the happiness among couples is higher with those who actually didn't even live together before, married, married, and then lived together than those that lived together even before. And so, you know, we're. You just see all of this play out. And I think too, what's, what's hard is we see the other end of that. We see, we get the calls of people that everything screwed up, everything messed up, and you, you know, you move in together and then he can't find a job, and it's been a year and you're starting to pay bills. Like, it just gets real messy real fast. And so from a relational and financial perspective, the cleaner those lines can be, honestly, it's just, it makes the process smoother. And it may not be like what everyone does or, you know, fill in the blank, but it does, it just, it makes the process again from a relational and a financial perspective, smoother. So, no, I would not move out of your dad's place. I think, you know, you probably have a great set up there if you wanted to move out with your daughter and rent somewhere on your own. You could. But I would say, I would say put, let him move here, figure out the job and the place to live and then that could all happen in.

[Dave Ramsey]

A short period of time. I mean, he could get a job. Yeah, he could get a job. You could get engaged, you could get married and rent an apartment and move out.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

In the next nine months.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it could happen. It could happen in one month. It wasn't, I mean, if he got the job and moved up there and got married, you know, that doesn't have, it doesn't require this lengthy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Process. But, but, but no, I would definitely not move out of your dad's place into an apartment with an unemployed guy who I'm not married to. No, that just, you know, as Rachel said, that sounds like no fun at all. There's nothing in there that sounds fun from an old dad perspective. You know, I mean, really, that's just like no daughter, don't do that. So for your sake, for the sake of your kid, you just went through hell with a divorce. I mean, come on. So last thing we want to do, sign up. Let's just say, all right, get a job, get engaged, get married. And that can all happen in, you know, a 10 day period of time. I don't care. Get an apartment and move in. That's just line the dominoes up and push them down. You know, that's. But yeah, there's, and I appreciate he doesn't want to come back there until he has something to come back to job wise.

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's, that's responsible on his part. So very, very good stuff. Open phones here at Triple 882-255-2225. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality is my co host. George Camel and I did the first night of the Investing Essentials last night, if you're listening to this live.

[Rachel Cruz]

And today went great, a great night.

[Dave Ramsey]

George did an amazing job. The other guy, I don't know.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's, he's, he's struggling.

[Rachel Cruz]

But they'll put a survey out to the audience and let them grade.

[Dave Ramsey]

They will. Okay, good.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, you've done.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll feel better when I don't look at that. Okay. Yeah. So last night was night one of our virtual event Investing Essentials. We covered all investing principles. We went deep into the mutual fund discussion, talked about all the traps and the bad stuff. Tonight we're going to do. And it's primarily me tonight is going to do. I'm Going to open my playbook on real estate. And now here's how I decide to buy a piece of real estate. Here's what I want it to look like. And if you're wanting to learn how to invest in real estate, we're going to go into more detail than you would want. I'm going to nerd out. We're going to unpack all the math formulas. We're going to show you how it's really done in the big leagues and not on Tic Tac. And so the guys on TikTok say.

[Rachel Cruz]

If people didn't know a little insight. If you weren't doing what you're doing, you'd be in real estate full time. It's what you were doing before you were doing this. But you like real estate. Your next love, you love all of this. Yeah, but your next love is, I mean you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I got a degree in real estate. I had an hour meeting with your husband who runs our real estate today. We're looking at a piece of ground to develop right now. I mean I had an hour meeting on at this point. I love it.

[Rachel Cruz]

He'll say, my favorite Dave is real estate Dave. He just gets like real like it's, he gets excited about it. You love it and so you're the best, you're one of the best teachers on the planet for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's fantastic and we actually do it. It's not theory. So we own about 600 million worth. So if you want to talk about real estate, we're going to do that tonight. Go to ramseysolutions.com Tickets are 199 and/eventsamseysolutions.com get your ticket. Join us this evening. If you're late hearing this, there might be a way for you to do it anyway. I don't know figure all that out but we're going to put the material out there so you guys can get helped. This is the Ramsey Show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when, when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world. Like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options. And they've been around for over 95 years so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Rachel Cruz Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Shantae is in Atlanta. Hi Shantae. How are you?

[Shantae]

I'm doing well. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

[Shantae]

Okay, sir. About a year ago my daughter was killed in a murder suicide by her husband. I'm trying not to. I'm gonna try to get through this, so.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Shantae]

I have custody of my grandchildren. They left three children. One he had from a previous marriage, but I have two which was theirs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Shantae]

Because of this, they have a house in Texas. I've been paying on this house for almost a year. I'm trying to figure out if I should keep paying for it because it has to go through probate or continue to take care of myself and pay off my debt, which I have a student loan that is about 80,000 but I had to put that on pause to in order to take care.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is the, what is the house worth?

[Shantae]

Well, according to a young man I had to go evaluate, it is worth. It has about a hundred, a little over 100 in equity. 100,000 to 130 in equity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is the probate not clear a year later in Texas?

[Shantae]

Well, I believe that's my fault because I'm living here in Atlanta and the house is in Texas. So I had to travel back and forth of course to take care of things there.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the babies are with you?

[Shantae]

It was hard to find a lawyer.

[Dave Ramsey]

The babies are with you now in, in Atlanta, right?

[Shantae]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Shantae]

It was hard to find a lawyer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, a hundred thousand dollars is a great part time job, sir. I said making $100,000 for your new part time job called getting this house probated and sold. That's a nice part time job. 100 grand.

[Shantae]

I'm already $20,000 in and I'm getting nervous.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're missing my point. If you sell the house, you get $100,000 in your pockets. What you told me, right?

[Shantae]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ain't nothing else you're doing gonna pay you that. So I'm gonna make this a priority.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're $20,000 in meaning from lawyer fees, travel, all of that. That's what you're saying. And you're like, I'm nervous.

[Shantae]

You've been paying the pay, making sure it stays.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you need to go, you need to. Do you have any time off available from work or have you used it all up with this tragedy?

[Shantae]

Okay. I'm also a caretaker from my mother in law, so I'm home. So I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're married?

[Shantae]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, listen to me. If I waive $100,000, check under your nose and say, go get it, that's where you're sitting. You need to go get the hundred thousand dollars, which means you need to prioritize and say, someone else take care of mother in law for a week. I'm going to haul my butt over to Texas, get a lawyer, get this thing run through probate, get it on the market with a real estate agent, get it sold, put $100,000 in my pocket for the good of you, your family and these babies.

[Shantae]

Okay? May I say something else, sir?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Shantae]

Okay, so when it goes through probate, a lot of the, a lot of the fees will eat into that, am I correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

There's not any big fees in probate in Texas. Okay. No big deal.

[Shantae]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's, it's a few hundred dollars to get a lawyer and get the thing before the judge. Tell the judge, tell the lawyer to tell the judge the story. This is a tragedy. These children, these babies are dependent upon this asset to take care of them with their granny who's taken them in. We need to fast track this thing right down the rails. Judge. And the judge will go, oh, yeah, I'm going to take care of this one. This one ain't dragging out. Stamp, stamp, stamp, boom, houses on the market and you're out of here. Texas is not a difficult. Texas is not a difficult state, Okay?

[Shantae]

I mean, I've been called like lawyers. Hopefully I found one. Hopefully I have not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, here's what, here's what I want you to do. Let's stop. Let me help you. I'll guide you through it. But what I need you to do is make this a huge priority. If I told you I would hire you for one week and pay you $100,000, and you had to go to Texas for one week, you would Go do that.

[Shantae]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what's in front of you. Okay, so I want you to go to ramseysolutions.com I want you to find one of our smart, I mean one of our ELPs for real estate or Ramsey trusted real estate ELPs. What city in Texas is this?

[Shantae]

Is it a city called Temple, Texas?

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, and what's it, what's that outside of, I believe. Oh my gosh, what's it close to? Because I don't know.

[Shantae]

Texas.

[Dave Ramsey]

What?

[Shantae]

Austin.

[Dave Ramsey]

Austin.

[Shantae]

Austin is like an hour and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, so I want you to get a, one of the Ramsey trusted real estate agents and I want you to get on the phone with them today. I want you to ask them to help you find a probate attorney. Tell them this story. They will help you run, run this to ground. They can help you find an attorney. You can get on the phone with an attorney and the real estate agent will help you. If you're going to list the house with them, right?

[Shantae]

Yes, I have a list.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they'll know somebody in the area and they'll know an attorney that does probate work. And the probate attorneys know the judge in probate. They can pick up the phone and call the judge and go, look, here's what we got. We got these two babies and a murder suicide, horrible situation. And when these babies are about to lose their only asset if we don't get this done because granny lives over in Atlanta and can't get this household judge, we need a little help and boom. We're gonna get this thing done, girl.

[Shantae]

Well, thank you, Dave. I hope so.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you, you're gonna get it done. I'm saying you, you're gonna lean into it. This is your new part time job that pays $100,000. This is your part time job that pays $100,000. And this is more important than taking care of your mother in law for the next week.

[Rachel Cruz]

When you say when you believe me.

[Shantae]

I've been there five times trying to get this done.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, so what? So I. What you said I, you know, I've been trying. You've been down there. What, what hold ups are you finding? Like what are they telling.

[Shantae]

Trying to find them? I believe I found a lawyer finally. I paid the fees. I haven't heard from them yet, unfortunately. I don't know what's been done.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long ago was this? But.

[Shantae]

About a month ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your jobs call them every day till they get their finger out of their ear.

[Shantae]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, okay.

[Shantae]

This is like my 10th lawyer. I'm telling you, I've been trying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, you hang on. Are you jump on Ramsey Solutions. I'm sorry. And get a hold of one of the real estate agents to see if you can get some help over there. Because the thing is, your job is put pressure, heavy pressure on this whole situation so that it spits out $100,000 check and you've kind of hit or miss. Well, the lawyer didn't do it. And. Well, I did it a month ago and I hadn't followed up. So you're not putting the pressure on. I want you to put the pressure on. Be mama bear. I want you to lean in and take care of this situation. And.

[Rachel Cruz]

Which, too, you've got that thought to you, too. I mean, this happened a year ago. I'm like, you're probably coming out of this fog. I mean, I can't even imagine.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't imagine how much pain is involved.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, it's just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm like, there's so. There's so much. But I hope. I hope this call for you gave you more of the confidence and the motivation to say, okay, I am doing the right thing and push forward. Because sometimes. And I. And I could feel this like, you hear probate, you hear. I mean, it's a very intimidating idea if you're not. If you don't deal with lawyers and you don't deal with judges on a regular basis. Right. I'm like, there's a level where this can feel very intimidating and you almost can outsource it, which I think is what she's done. She's yielded a lot to these lawyers. But what you're giving her the permission and the mandate is to be like, you can. You can. Not that you can quote, unquote, do more, but, like, you can step into this role with more aggression. And that's. And you should.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most lawyers need. Desperately need someone to tell them what to do often. Often. And that's like, my goal in life is to tell lawyers what to do often. You need to boss them around. They're not used to it. And it's really good for them when somebody finally does it. So. And it's good for you because this needs to get done. This needs to get done because you're paying a payment. That thing sitting there eating you alive instead of blessing you. And it's eating these urinal. When it's eating you alive, it's affecting these babies instead of blessing them. This hundred thousand dollars go a long way to take care of your family and therefore you being able to take care of these babies. I'm so sorry. Y'all been through this, Shantae. It's horrible. But get one of the real estate agents over in the area to help you run point on this. And then you lean into it. Growl, Mama bear, go get em. There's $100,000 check laying there. Don't let anybody keep you from it. Go get it. Go get it. Don't walk away from this. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of homeownership [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com this is.

[Megan]

A paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027.

[Dave Ramsey]

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality. Open phones at Triple 882-55-2225. Our question of the day is brought to you by why refi Are defaulted private student loan payments dragging you down? Why Refi can help you save thousands of dollars? Visit why refi.com Ramsey see how they can help. That's the letter Y. Refi.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, this is a funny one. I just read it. Today's question comes from Steve in Indiana. Would your snowball plan help get America out of $36 trillion of debt? And how would you budget it? I wish Trump had you on the Doge team.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, no, I don't fit in with people that do stuff. No, I don't fit in in anything. In D.C. it is kind of fun to watch them take a machete to the ridiculous spending. And you don't have to be of any political ilk to think that you know, machetes to the ridiculous spending are necessary. This is out of control for sure. I mean, it's a funny question, but the truth is that running a government of any size, the state of Tennessee, for instance, the governors, the last several governors I've been with. And it's a different endeavor to run something like that than to run a business or run your personal account. The principle of being debt free still stands, and it's a good principle. And the principle of living on less than you make still stands. And the principle of good management or good frugality still stands. The. So I mean, I can give you an opinion, but it's probably worth exactly what you paid for it. I observed under, for instance, Bill Clinton was the last president that had a balanced budget that we actually did not run. I mean, he did it. Some say that he did some of that off of. I mean, the tax code that was in place at that point was put in place by Reagan. And so the lowered taxes, the Laffer curve, Art Laffer famous for, was the.

[Rachel Cruz]

Reagan stuff all the way through. Wasn't Bush won and then Clinton.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, but the. It was, but I mean, it was H.W. i mean, H, you know, was running the same campus, running the same deal, except he raised taxes on one thing and that got him baked. But the. Anyway, politically. But the point being that there's, there's really good evidence the Laffer curve is true. Art Laffer has the. Is known for the theory of, to a certain degree, as you lower taxes, the economy heats up because the people that are making money are putting money back into their businesses and they make yet more money and they pay yet more taxes even though the rate is lower. Now, there's a point of diminishing returns on the curve. It is a curve. It's not a straight line. But if you lower taxes, it heats up the economy and you end up collecting more revenue. So if you want to increase the federal government's income from taxes, income tax, then you would, oddly enough, lower taxes. It seems oxymoronic. It actually does work. And so as the, as the tax, you know, so if you want to get out of debt, one of the things we tell you to do is get an extra job, right? I mean, increase your income to get out of debt. So that would be part of the equation. Let's increase the income of the United States of America by increasing the revenues produced by the tax system by, oddly enough, lowering the tax rates to cause that to happen and stimulate the economy. And that does work. I mean, people that have studied John Maynard Keynes and are socialists, which John Maynard Keynes was a socialist. Keynesian economics are taught in almost every economics class in Professor Land out there. But. But I'm not a believer. I'm an Adam Smith guy. I'm a free market guy and I really do understand this stuff. So anyway, all that to say you would increase the income, and then of course, you would do what Doge is doing. You cut the snot out of the expenses. So if you could ever get it right side up, where there was more income than outgo. In other words, there is no deficit. Not only is there. No. Because deficit means you're going in the hole every month and you got to turn that to get out of debt.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then could you start to pay off the debt? Absolutely you could. And what's weird is the way that stuff works on a governmental level, it would happen, it would be really quick because of the way the thing would feed on itself. Because the other thing that's tied into this is there's what's called monetary policy, meaning that when the government takes a trillion dollars out of the economy by borrowing it, by issuing bonds to cover the deficit, that trillion dollars is not out there running around in the economy to stimulate the economy. So when the government runs debt, it sucks the bone marrow out of the economy because it drops currency down. The amount of money that's moving around is shortened considerably. And when you start putting all that back, or when you just stop bone marrow out and then on top of that you start putting some back in the economy, the thing could really heat up and the revenues could go through the roof. It could be rowdy. And so that's one set of theories that get you there. But this is the first time in my lifetime that I've seen anyone that had the political didn't give a crap. The political don't give a crap. In order to just walk in there with an axe and a machete and just start chopping down everything in sight. And it's. I didn't know if I'd ever see it. It truly had to be somebody that didn't care, because he can't. That's so offensive, because he can't be elected again. So if you don't like it, screw you, you know, and it had to be somebody doing that, because if anybody cares about being reelected, then, you know, every little person you piss off by cutting one of these programs is a voter and you start worrying about being reelected or not. But when you truly reach the point of I don't give a crap. And apparently that's where this bunch is. I mean it's interesting to watch. And by the way, that's also the thing that happens with individuals. You guys out there, when you guys get out of debt, you reach a point you don't care what your broke brother in law's opinion is about what you drive because he ain't paying the payments anyway and he doesn't get a vote. And so you're gonna go do radical stuff to get your life back and get out of debt. And there is some correlation to this?

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure, sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's interesting. It's an interesting discussion. Sure has got people. 44 days. 44 days he's been office. This is wild. It's just wild. It's entertaining.

[Rachel Cruz]

As great long State of the Union ever.

[Dave Ramsey]

Last night, Francisco is in Des Moines, Iowa. Hi Francisco, how are you?

[Jim]

Hey, Mr. Ramsey, thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up? Hey.

[Jim]

So I have a question regarding a possible job change. So where I'm at, I currently make about 128,000 per year. I commute to work, so that translates to about 400 to $450 per month in gas. And my insurance is pretty expensive. Where I'm at right now. The job offer that I got is where I live in town and I would be saving an additional $750 per month. My question is, is that enough to I guess warrant the job change? Me and my wife are currently on baby step number three.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're making more money. If you're making more money and it's closer to home, what's the downside?

[Jim]

The downside is as a body auto body tech work is pretty inconsistent here in town. But where I'm at, it's like it's never dipped down. So that's the only thing that's kind of worrying me is like the, the possible steady ruining, ruining, ruining possible steady flow of income.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you get paid by the job by the hour, not by. So this might not be a raise?

[Jim]

Actually it is a $2 increase.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but if you get less work, the $2 doesn't matter. Exactly.

[Jim]

That's kind of my concern.

[Rachel Cruz]

Have you asked around what people are getting? I mean, do you have a ballpark of like, yeah, this seems realistic and there's going to be high months, then there's me low months. But do you have a middle ground at all from other people in the, in the field?

[Jim]

No, no, I don't really.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many people this, this place you're talking about going to employ in your position.

[Jim]

There's two other techs there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are they staying busy?

[Jim]

They're kind of. For them, yes. When I talk to the general manager, they're looking for someone that kind of can put out more volume because the text they have right now are kind of just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but is he gonna. Is he promising you you're gonna stay busy?

[Jim]

He promised me that I was gonna stay busy. He just didn't say for how long.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, just. Just tell him that he has to guarantee you financially that if we're not busy, you're paying me anyway and that takes the risk out of it. Negotiate a different deal with a potential employer. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Georgia]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story and it's a lie. In our self obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets, our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself. We all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of help and support for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100 online therapy so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P.

[Dave Ramsey]

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Megan is with us in Orlando. Hi Megan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Amy]

Hi Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Amy]

So I've kind of gotten myself or my life into a big mess and I stumbled across your show and I'm trying to take steps to get out of debt. So I guess I would be in baby step two. Yes. The problem I'm running into is before I came across your show, me and my fiance, I was really big on trying to get us to kind of put our money together and kind of tackle this together. Now that I've kind of came across that I learned it's a big no, no to put your money together before you are married. And I am the breadwinner of our house. We have 10 people in my home. So between. We have five children. And then I just adopted my nephew and I have his big brother at my house too. So I'm feeling all of this pressure. I work two full time jobs and I'm just trying to get control. He works a full time job at the hospital working on hospital equipment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What does he earn?

[Amy]

I mean he. Annually. Probably about 50. I want to say when I looked at his last year, I made 160.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing what now what do you do?

[Amy]

I'm an ultrasound technician. I work.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're working a lot then?

[Amy]

Yeah, I do full time nights and then I do full. I take call full time days. So I pretty much do 24 hours.

[Dave Ramsey]

The two of you and the two of you have five children?

[Amy]

I had two from a previous marriage. Well, not marriage, just relationship. And then I put myself through school as a single mom and then I got my career. Then I met him and we got pregnant quickly. And then since then we've been together for six years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you guys have three kids together and he's your.

[Amy]

We have three together and when we've been engaged.

[Dave Ramsey]

When are you planning to get married?

[Amy]

Well, at first we put it on hold because my father fell ill and I was his caretaker. And then we just haven't done it. One, finances. I felt like it was silly to spend money for, you know, a wedding.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, let me, let me ask you this. I'm just curious and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but you're, you're functioning in every way almost as if you're married now and have been for some time. So what's the difference in that and getting married this weekend for $50.

[Amy]

I'm scared because my.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you scared of? You already have children, you live together, you support him. What is there to be scared of?

[Amy]

My child from another relationship and my nephew that I just got custody of. They're not big fans of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not. What?

[Amy]

Like I don't know if they're fans. Yeah, like I feel like there's red flags. They don't like him. They think I deserve better.

[Dave Ramsey]

Six years.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Two children too late to ask some child their opinion of this Guy.

[Amy]

Yeah, they don't get a vote. We're in therapy together, working on some relational issues.

[Rachel Cruz]

Do you feel like you'll be with him long term? I mean, do you want to marry him?

[Amy]

I mean, most of the time I do feel like that, but it's more like we go through the motions of raising our kids. So sometimes I wonder, like, once the kids are grown up, the longevity, if that makes sense. Sometimes it feels like we're in this.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys. You guys are fabulous. Can kickers. You've kicked the can. Kick the can. Kick the can. Kick the can, put it off. Kick the can, put it off. All these reasons and. And then still functioning as if you're married. And the reason I'm bringing all this up is it's not working for you. I'm listening to you, and there's no fun in your voice at all.

[Amy]

I think there's just a lot of fear. And I felt a lot of pressure because he's coming to me now and he's like, okay, let's put our money together. And I'm like, we're not married.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we're gonna get married. That's what we're gonna do. Or we're not gonna put our money together. And also, you know, if I woke up in your shoes, what would I do? That's how I answer questions here. Okay, so my friend Henry Cloud is a famous psychologist, and he wrote a book called Necessary Endings. And he says, you end any relationship, whether it's your job, whether it's contact with an extended family who's toxic, whether it's a situation like you're in, whatever the relationship is, you end it. Only when you lose hope that it can get better and be right. Does that make sense? And so I'm not going to be sitting here this time next year if I'm you in this exact same quandary, wondering if this is going to be okay. We're going to get in there with this therapist and go, look, we're going to walk around this really, really hard for 90 days, and we're going to see some serious progress. Or I'm going to call.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That scares you even more.

[Amy]

Doesn't scares me. Because of the children. I don't want a broken home just because we're not.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you need to decide, don't you, this painter get off the ladder. Right?

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you don't think the kids are suffering in this situation? Of course they're suffering. They're suffering from all this ambiguity. They don't know what the flip's going on because their mom doesn't know what the flip's going on, and their dad doesn't know what the flip's going on. And we're all just running around in circles trying to make enough money and throw it in the middle of a pot. And we're running a little commune over here, and it's not working relationally. Am I missing something?

[Amy]

I think I'm. I'm just afraid to get married. And then he's.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're afraid of not getting married? You're afraid of getting married?

[Amy]

Yeah, I just want to take care of my family. And I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing.

[Amy]

It makes sense for us to get married. But no, personal.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it doesn't. Not. Not if you're. Not. If you're not going to be married. Because divorces. I mean, marriage is grand. Divorce is 50 grand. No, we don't go through that. But you guys relationally need to make a decision. Are we, the two adults in the household, going to join forces and then take care of the little people, or is it best for us and the little people to be separate? But if we're going to join forces, we need to get six years. And you guys are dancing and dancing and dancing and dancing and dancing. It's. You know, because the other thing is you put all of your financial dreams and everything on hold in the process, too. It's very difficult to make progress mathematically in this situation.

[Amy]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's why. That's what.

[Amy]

Struggling with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what actually prompted your call. And then I. Then I got all Papa Dave on you, so. But I'm just.

[Amy]

Yeah, I just downloaded the EveryDollar budget app, which is. It's tough for me because my income fluctuates, so I'm struggling.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'll be able to do that really, really easy when the two of you are married and put $210,000 in that puppy and start crunching through this stuff, and you and him are on the same page, and two grownups are running this house. Not the kids. The kids don't get a vote.

[Amy]

Yeah, well, it's new for me because he's never wanted to put our money together. It's always just been very separate.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't want to put your money together until you're married. But you guys have got to make a decision about this marriage. You either need to make a decision. We're going to start working very hard on the relationship. And by this point, and that's just.

[Rachel Cruz]

For marriage to be the outcome the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Marriage is the outcome. Or we're going to call this. We're going to break this thing up, we're going to drop a grenade in the middle of it. Because what you're doing, you're telling us. We're not telling you, you're telling us what you're doing. The way you're doing life right now doesn't work. I'm afraid to get married. I'm afraid to break up the house. I'm afraid I can't get traction with the money. I can't get control. This is what you called us and started saying. I'm just repeating it back to you. And so you can't keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. That's the definition of insanity, right?

[Amy]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's what you're gonna do. I'm gonna beg you as my new friend that I love, for the sake of you, for the sake of him, for the sake of these kids. You two need to look at each other and look at this therapist and go, okay, we're gonna make a decision. And in the next 90 or 120 days, we're going to see such significant progress in this relationship that it's not perfect. There's always going to be some fear. That's normal. But we're seeing progress to where we have hope enough that we can call this what it is, a marriage. And then you put yourself together and then you start managing those little people and you start managing those dollars and. And it all starts coming together in a much cleaner way. But this, you running around trying to mother hen everything from the outside with no connectivity, doesn't work. And no, you don't combine your money with him until you're married. This is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle. The number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. Netsuite's real time insights and forecasting help you See into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com Ramsey live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz Ramsey, personality number one best selling author. My daughter is my co host. Today open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Jim is with us in Houston, Texas. Hi Jim. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jim]

Hello. I'm honored you're taking the time to help me and millions of others with our money questions.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you. Thank you. How can we help?

[Jim]

I am a 40 year old widower and ready to date again. However, my truck is 25 years old and I perceive the ladies I want to date will judge me based on the vehicle I drive. It shouldn't matter, but as a guy of average height and average appearance, I don't have the charisma to overcome a poor first impression. The question is, should I spend five to $10,000 to buy a car for the sole purpose of dating to find my future wife?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, there's a lot going on here, Jim.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh, I cannot wait to talk about this. It's a great question. It's a great question. Okay, Jim, where are you at financially?

[Jim]

No debt, no mortgage, no kids.

[Rachel Cruz]

No debt, no mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's Your net worth?

[Jim]

1.3.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Jim]

132,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Regardless of women, you should get a better car.

[Jim]

Oh, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your car sucks. You're a multimillionaire. Go get you a dadgum car, son.

[Jim]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And then the women is a different issue. But yeah, I mean, really, you got a million dollars. You don't drive a 25 year old pickup truck. I mean, you can, but there's no point in it. And so I would go get a better car and, but I would, I would not ever purchase a car to attract a lady because you're trying to attract the wrong kind of woman at that point. You don't want a woman who comes to you for the car. Correct? Not, not a good, not a good, not a good connection. So no, I mean, we want her to love the gym that Rachel and I already love. Dude, you're a great guy.

[Jim]

Press one person. I just don't know who that is yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's okay. You don't have to. If you impress them with a car, it's the wrong woman.

[Rachel Cruz]

Have you had dates, Jim?

[Dave Ramsey]

Shallow woman.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you've gotten feedback about it. I'm just curious what's causing you to think it's the truck?

[Jim]

I have been on a second date that was going. I thought, very well, the conversation was good. And when we walked out to the parking lot, she said, oh, you're driving that? And I never heard from her again.

[Dave Ramsey]

But she doesn't.

[Jim]

I try, and I hide the truck on the other side of the parking lot. I'll walk her to her car. Leave.

[Dave Ramsey]

But, hey, listen, that's a good thing that you ran that one off.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, can I say this?

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, seriously, are you gonna marry. Do you want to marry somebody who judges you by your.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, no. I'm not saying she's a shallow chick. Can I. Excuse me. Let the woman talk for a second.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have at it, woman.

[Rachel Cruz]

Here's what I would say, though, Jim. Not that it's shallow, but you would wonder out of curiosity, like, oh, my gosh, am I gonna have to be the one that keeps this household afloat if it goes in the future? Like, if she doesn't know your financial state? Again, it's not a judgment on. Just like the car itself. Cause there needs to be more conversation. But as a. I would think as a woman, though, I'm like. I don't know. Am I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Am.

[Rachel Cruz]

Am I gonna have to be the breadwinner for. You know what I mean? Like, a level of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are we gonna be on food stamps? Cause he drives this truck. That's the kind of thing. Well, just.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, like, so the first impression thing, again, it's not for a sh. Purposes, but for her to know, like, no, you from it. You're responsible, and you. You know, all of these line up. Oh, then I don't care what kind of car you drive. I just know the man that I'm marrying, I'm entering into a relationship with that I'm not having to be the one to, like, hold us up financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you go to Branson, Missouri, and you were to visit the Walmart museum on the square in Branson, Missouri, one of the things that's in there is Sam Walton's ancient pickup truck that the billionaire drove to work every week, which is. And if you walk off from him because he drives that pickup truck, you would be known as a financial moron. I mean, seriously.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know. Honestly, I'm not saying not to date someone that has a crappy car. It's not that. It's just to know that, like, oh yeah, you are a guy that can hold life on his own. That's. And you really do, Jim, because of your. Because of where you are financially. I'm not saying to go buy a new truck for those purposes. I'm just giving another perspective to think, oh my gosh, is like. Like, is he. Is he doing anything with his life? Right? I'm not saying that you're not, Jim. Does that make sense? Anyone? Am I making sense or am I sounding shallow?

[Jim]

I'd rather have the opportunity to evaluate her character directly than she dismissed me based on a falsehood.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if she's willing to dismiss you without learning more about your character based on the truck, this is not marriage material.

[Rachel Cruz]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, send her back to the digital thing that she came from. That's all good, you know, go away chick. And that, that. Honestly, you dodged a bullet.

[Rachel Cruz]

The digital thing, she came.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dodged a dating app. You dodged a bullet. Okay, so. But all that. Anyway, all that aside, I think you ought to go get a better car for you.

[Jim]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

For you. And you could drive the pickup all you want to drive it, but I think you ought to have a better car in the driveway for you. You've earned it. You do not have to drive a piece of crap anymore. You live like no one else. And now you can live like no one else.

[Jim]

Right. With the status symbol of choice, a BMW.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that, no, that's not the status symbol of choice. The status symbol of choice was a.

[Rachel Cruz]

Paid off mortgage, which, Jim, you've done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Taking the place of the BMW, but go get a better car. I'm not saying you have to go spend $100,000 on a car, but I mean, you're driving. You're driving a $1500 truck.

[Rachel Cruz]

He can be very content. He may be fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

He ought to get a better car.

[Rachel Cruz]

He's Sam Walton.

[Dave Ramsey]

I tell these people all the time, go get a better car. But I wouldn't do it. I would never do that to attract the kind of woman you get. The kind of person, woman or man, if you're in a dating relationship that you attract based on your possessions is not marriage material.

[Rachel Cruz]

Agreed. He looked at me again. I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I was arguing. I don't know what this whole other thing you did a while ago was.

[Rachel Cruz]

But yeah, it was just to know, like, okay, I'm not having to be the breadwinner, right? I'm like, I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want to be on food stamps.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't want someone that's like, yeah, that's like not working and making an income.

[Dave Ramsey]

At least ask a question instead of saying, See ya.

[Rachel Cruz]

100% agree. I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're driving this truck because you're a billionaire, or you're driving this truck because you're poor and don't work much.

[Rachel Cruz]

Exactly. Well, it's just the idea of, like, I don't know. I don't have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, you could ask a question. Yeah. He's 40 years old.

[Rachel Cruz]

Jim, I'm rooting for you. And I hope this call. I'm gonna just pray this over the. Over the Internets that this call. Maybe some lady's like, jim, I'm interested.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go.

[Rachel Cruz]

If you are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Houston's a little town. Shouldn't be hard to find. You look for the. Look for the old truck.

[Rachel Cruz]

Look for the old truck in Houston, Texas.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jim, like, there's no old trucks in Houston, Texas. There's not a chance.

[Rachel Cruz]

I just appreciate. I appreciate him and I really do. And I'm sorry. You're a widower, too. Whatever that story was, I. I'm. I hope nothing but the best. Jim, I'm cheering you on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, me too.

[Rachel Cruz]

I hope you find a great. A great lady out there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too.

[Rachel Cruz]

We should do a Ramsey dating app.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no. It would end up like this call.

[Rachel Cruz]

What do you mean? Terrible advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is bad advice from both of us.

[Rachel Cruz]

I think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, we flunked that out.

[Rachel Cruz]

That wasn't our best call, Mary.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, it's worth what you pay for it, baby. This is the Ramsey show.

[Rachel Cruz]

You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family. Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial documents are as organized as the rest of your house. Well, good news. Knockbox, that's N O K Box, as in next of kin. Box, is a complete system that helps you be sure that you leave happy memories, not a mess when you pass away. Knockbox is a simple way to organize important paper and digital documents, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, accounts, and other personal history in one manageable place. Your family will feel your love in every detail you take care of. So start taking care of [e-mail] Ramsey A well organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys, good news. Presale is on now for my new book, build a business you love. If you're a business owner, you know Running a business is hard. That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store pre order today. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? Do you even know what that is? If you take a. Quick. Take a. Take a quick quiz. I'll get it out in a minute. You can check your progress and receive a personalized plan for you. Simply head to the Show Notes, click the link titled are you on track with the baby steps? Complete the quiz. We'll show you where you are and what the next step is to move forward with your money. Amy's in New York City. Hi, Amy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Philip]

Thank you for taking my call, Mr. Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Philip]

I am 55 years old in a divorce settlement. I got a simple IRA of $1.2 million. I cannot work due to some health issues. My concern is I'm kind of. I'm concerned about my burn rate and ways to mitigate my tax, my taxes. I know I'm getting a 10% early withdrawal fee because of my age and, of course, income tax. I'm not sure what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

You said you're not able to work because of your health?

[Philip]

Yes, I have some cognitive issues that I'm not getting hired.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And the. This is your only asset, your only source of income?

[Philip]

Correct. I have no debts and I have no assets.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay. And why New York City?

[Philip]

Well, when I got the settlement, I decided to work on my bucket list. So I did a couple things like jump out of an airplane and move to New York City. And then I started.

[Rachel Cruz]

Your bucket list is both. David, Dave likes to jump out of airplanes. And I love New York City. So you check and check.

[Philip]

So I'm living my life. I really do love it. And then I sort of went, wait a minute, I need to make this last about 20, 30 years. And then realize that's probably not going to happen the way I'm going through with my burn rate.

[Dave Ramsey]

The reason I asked is not because I hate New York City, but because it's one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in, and we're worried about a burn rate. So those two things don't go together. That's what was running through my head. So, you know, I'm probably going to locate somewhere near people I love and frequently visit New York City rather than try to live there. That would be probably half as expensive.

[Philip]

You're quite right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's an idea. Okay. That's going to affect your burn rate. There is. I don't know of a. I mean, do you have a good financial advisor in your corner?

[Philip]

I have someone who's managing the ira, but not a financial advisor. No. I feel like I want, like a tax strategist.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, there's not.

[Philip]

Financial advisors.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go ahead. Go ahead.

[Philip]

Financial advisors want to make me save enough money so I'll have 1.2 million when I'm 100 years old and in a nursing home. And I don't want that. I have no one to save my money for. I want to be able to live my life now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm in. I'm with you on that. So a good. The way we define a good financial advisor is not someone that tells you what to do, but someone that teaches you and then you can make good decisions. So what you're calling us for is the same thing you're calling us for. Good information. Is there some way I can get at this money and lower my burn rate? Because I did do a little math here, and this is not working. And that's the essence of your question. So I am not aware. With your cognitive stuff, there's no formal disability, is there? Like, you've not applied for SSI or something, have you?

[Philip]

I have, but with everything that's going on, they say it's probably going to take a year or two years before everything might check out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, that's. You're talking about the upheaval with the Trump administration.

[Philip]

No, this was even before.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it doesn't take two years to get SSI approved. Okay. Unless there's something. I mean, do you have medic. I mean, you have good doctors opinions and so forth to submit to prove disability, correct?

[Philip]

Yes, I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Philip]

There's just a long waiting period.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was told there's no disability insurance anywhere in the whole mix of this discussion. Right?

[Philip]

No, I have to pay for my insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. All right. I didn't think so, but I'm just. I'm just fishing here. Okay, so what I. What I want you to. I want you to go to Ramsey Solutions. I want you to check out the SmartVestor Pros. And these are investment advisors that we have vetted. They have to have the heart of a teacher or they don't become one of the people that we put in the SmartVestor program. Okay. They don't work for Me. And they don't work for you unless they teach you something and advise you rather than direct you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, we, I just had our meeting. My husband and I meet with ours once a year and we just had ours yesterday. And I'll tell you, a great financial planner or, you know, someone walking beside you, an investment professional. Their job is to help you live the way you want to live. Amy. So, and how to do it responsibly. And they, and they should have a basic knowledge, if not a pretty comprehensive knowledge on taxes as well. Like, they're going to see a holistic view of your life. And so a good, you know, someone that's on your side is going to hear you where you're like, you're not very risk averse. You know, you're kind of like, yeah, I want to, I want to live and jump out of airplanes and like do it all. I don't want to die with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I need to get, I need to get you to 59 and a half with the laws that I understand because that gets us past the 10%, all of that. Yes, but you are going to get taxes on whatever you pull out, income tax. There's no avoiding that.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, but I'm just saying a good financial planner is going to look at all of that, know the ins and outs of it. They're going to be able to run a pro forma and be able to say, okay, here's this, this and this and this throughout the years. I mean, you're going to be, you're going to get a detailed plan with this person and that's what you need. So right now you don't.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, it's a little bit kind of all.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you had, if you had a gross income of $130,000 a year, minus taxes, you could, you live on that and do your dream.

[Philip]

Minus taxes, taxes, that would put me. Income tax 22%.

[Dave Ramsey]

And now you put you down about 80,000. 75, 80,000. Take home pay.

[Philip]

It would be tight, but yes, probably.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not New York City.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Yeah, probably not. Probably not. Probably visiting New York City, but not living there. Okay, but see that, that's, that's once you get to 59 and a half. Because if you can produce 10% on 1.2 in Good Mutual funds, which I know you can do, then that's $120,000 a year. Okay. Minus taxes, and it is taxable. You're not going to get away from that. This is a taxable event. And then if you said, also, okay, I'm going to plan out. I'm 55. I'm going to plan to be broke at 90. Okay. And so I'm going to set up 120,000 minus taxes, plus a burn rate to hit me at zero at 90. Then, you know, there's a formula that you can put in a calculator and do that. But it sounds like I don't know what this money's invested in, but if it's producing north of 10%, you know, you should be able, without even touching the nest egg, to bring that 10% out every year. You follow me?

[Philip]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that, that's the kind of thing I want to start looking at. And then I've got a. Then I've got a 10% penalty from 50 to 5 to 59 and a half, and I've got my tax rate, and that's going to erode this nest egg a little bit at a time. But I think you've been spending 200 a year, right?

[Philip]

That's correct.

[Latonya]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're right, you can't. I was guessing, but you can't. You're right, you can't do that mathematically because you're going to end up on Alpo at some point in the story.

[Philip]

Rice and beans. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, dog food's what I was talking about, but yeah, so we don't want to do that. We don't want to do that. So, yeah, let's do that. I do think you've got a doable situation because what happened, it sounds to me like is, you know, you went through this divorce and you've got these cognitive things that you're dealing with. And you said, all right, I'm doing the bucket list, screw it. And you kind of got some of that in the last 18, 24 months in the rear view mirror. And now you're kind of going, okay, now I got to get real about this. Did I understand? Is that, Is that what happened?

[Philip]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Philip]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I think, I think you're ready to sit down with somebody and not end up with 1.2 million when you die. But also, but, you know, let's use, let's use some of it and hit the bucket list, but let's not, let's not have those. The burn rate, as you said, I think.

[Rachel Cruz]

And if you can jump on that disability, too, and get some income coming.

[Dave Ramsey]

In, if you can get that SSI through, and maybe, maybe a smartvestor pro can help you run that SSI through, if you happen to run into somebody's Got a little bit of knowledge on that. That's helpful. So, anyway, hit the Ramsey Solutions website. Find somebody to sit down with that's got the heart of a teacher to help you. As Rachel said, live your proposed life, not theirs. This is the Ramsey Show. Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're gonna start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the EveryDollar budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free. So no excuses. Download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play. Today, in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Philip and Heidi are with us. Hey, Philip and Heidi. How are you?

[George Camel]

Hi. Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome. Where do you guys live?

[Megan]

Indianapolis.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Very fun. Welcome to Nashville.

[George Camel]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much debt have you two paid off?

[Megan]

$300,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa.

[George Camel]

A little change.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go. How long did it take to pay off $300,000? Long.

[Megan]

Six years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Wow. And your range of income during that time?

[Megan]

We started at right around $100,000, and then we had the numbers there for 23, and it was like 219 at the end of 23. And then I finally did the taxes last week. We made it over 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Wow. What do y'all do for a living?

[Megan]

I'm a physician assistant.

[George Camel]

I'm a nurse practitioner.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, okay. Couple of medical folks. I was gonna say 300,000 might be a mortgage, but it could be student loans.

[George Camel]

It is. Exactly.

[Megan]

Student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. You had a mortgage worth of student loans. Yeah.

[Megan]

Oh. More in student loans than we do on the house. Very much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruz]

But you're out. We're out. You're done.

[Dave Ramsey]

And now you're making a quarter million a year between the two of you. So. Hello. Okay. That's a good thing. Wow. Congratulations. All right, what started this whole journey? Tell us about six years ago.

[George Camel]

So six years ago, we actually went through Financial Peace University with one of our older churches. And then we moved to the Indianapolis area and got involved with our church now and decided that after Phil was done with school that we were just gonna pay it off. And Just get it done and be rid of it. And through lots and lots of hard work, we started with the envelope system and then went to the EveryDollar app.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So we just in little bit by little bit and we got it done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, congratulations. That's a lot. I mean, this is like a lot of money.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. I mean, when you sat down and looked at that and you went $300,000 in student loan debt, you had to have an oh, crap moment.

[Megan]

Yes.

[George Camel]

We started off with little thermometers that we made because, you know, I was raised by two teachers, so I need very visual aid kind of person. And so we started having these thermometers of like coloring in. And after six pages of thermometers, we stopped that. It was a little. It was a little overwhelming.

[Rachel Cruz]

So much, so much going on. Oh, man. Okay, so during this time, because six years, I mean, that's a marathon, right? I mean, we, you know, two years is usually kind of average with consumer debt. So people that do mostly student loans, we see that it's kind of the long game. Right. So what was the hardest part in six years? I know you guys are. We're probably tired. I mean, I know you probably hit a wall at certain points thinking, oh, my gosh, we're still in this.

[George Camel]

I feel like we hit two walls.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

We have two kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, so we had two walls.

[George Camel]

We had two walls. So thing one and thing two and, you know, it. It was funny. Like, our oldest is six. Surprisingly, we started paying off. It's like, oh, hey, we're pregnant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Our oldest is six and our youngest is three. And both of them started out lives with a little bit of medical debt. You know, just, they're great now. Everything's wonderful. But, you know, keeping tithing, keeping everything saving, but also paying off debt as fast as we could, making sure they were okay. Those, those were some hard times of making sure that we stayed within budget, but still were able to connect with the boys, but also connect each other and pay off debt as fast as we could was a huge priority. So the two walls were amazing. We love the walls, but we love them.

[Rachel Cruz]

But they came. They came in strong.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, that's a big deal, though. For real. I mean, like anyone that has a baby, like, you're like, it's a, it's a life changing event, let alone two happening during a process like this. So kudos to you guys. That's great. So great.

[Dave Ramsey]

So which of the six years did you make the most progress?

[Megan]

The most Progress. Probably the single biggest year was last.

[Dave Ramsey]

Year in 24 just because the income went up.

[Megan]

Income went up and there were some changes with some paid time off with work and all that that they ended up cashing out both of ours. So we had like two extra months worth of income just come in PTO and they switched over to a different plan so didn't lose out on any available time off for us. So that was a big one because yeah, our final payment was like $46,000 and change that we just did all at once.

[George Camel]

That was a really rough two weeks of just like no one can get sick, no one can get injured. Everyone has to be very cool for these two weeks until we get.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hold your breath, hold your breath, hold your breath. Here we go. The. I definitely see the math part of that. I'm wondering was your intensity up because you could see the finish line.

[George Camel]

Yes, absolutely.

[Megan]

Yeah. I mean we, we were saying for the last couple years this is finally going to be the year, but there's something different coming into 24 like this. This is finally going to be time for this to happen. So. And I knew I was going to have to cash out some PTO to make that goal by the end of 24, but I didn't know it was going to take all of my PTO and all of hers at the same time. But ended up being that with the workings of everything else with work, that if I had done it earlier in the year, it wouldn't have worked out. We had to wait on them to make the changes that we weren't in the place for them to even make those changes. So God really worked it out for us to make this come together at the end. Because when it all came in to the checking account, it was less than $200 that was in the checking account, more than what we had left to pay.

[George Camel]

It was a total God thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're done.

[Megan]

We could be done tonight and then we have $200 for the next two weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Megan]

And Merry Christmas.

[Dave Ramsey]

Literally holds your breath and Merry Christmas by the way. Thing one and thing to. Yeah. Wow. Congratulations you guys. So there's a 24 year old couple listening right now or a 26 year old couple listening and they just looked up and saw they've got $300,000 in debt. Talk to them, tell them if it can be done and what they should do.

[Megan]

It can always be done. So I mean, what can't be done?

[George Camel]

I think the other thing to remember is the phrase live like no one else so you can live like no one else. And knowing that this is temporary, $300,000 is overwhelming when you look at it on six different paperworks of thermometers. But that little bit by little bit, keeping each one. That's slowly paid off. Slowly paid off, it really does build that momentum of, oh, we're so close. And you know, like it sounds silly, but even going under a hundred thousand, we're like, oh, we're under 100,000. That's we're so close.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not silly at all.

[George Camel]

Almost like, you know a half marathoner when they're like mile 10, you're almost done, you're like, no, I'm not. So I'll do like that. Under that hundred thousand mark was, is definitely a huge moment of oh, we can. Oh, we're so close. We are so close. So yeah, I think just knowing that building little momentums and having those little victories and we have such a great support system with our families and our friends and, you know, just a ton of support was huge with us.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what was the hardest part?

[Megan]

Probably just the length it took.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Just staying focused for that long and just how little progress was being made early on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Just knowing. No, just got to keep with it. Keep going.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was it worth it? Absolutely.

[George Camel]

We, we laugh. We're like, we've been like out of the my nervous phase for, you know, like a month of, you know, not everyone can breathe again and our 3 year old can be absolutely feral again and break any bone he wants. But you know, it's, it's one of those things where you know someone else, like, what are you gonna do now? It's like breathe. We're just gonna breathe for a minute knowing that we can be done and start dreaming fun things again. So.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And then now looking at our mortgage, it's like, oh, yeah, we can do that because it was less than loans.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look at that little thing. Look at that little mortgage. Yeah, that's great. It's all about perspective. That's awesome. Yeah. Well done you guys. A lot.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you did it.

[George Camel]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amazing. Good stuff. You changed your family tree.

[George Camel]

We did, Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

You changed yourselves in the process. The work that God did inside of you while you were doing this is pretty incredible.

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're different people than you were six years ago.

[Rachel Cruz]

Are the boys here?

[George Camel]

They are not, no. They would be running around the studio, probably hitting every corner that they could find, so. Especially our three year old.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's gonna be a peaceful, a peaceful debt free scream for you juggle at all.

[George Camel]

It is funny. Our 6 year old will say, you know, like, do we have, do we have the, do we have. We call it the fun money. You know, like, do we have the fun money this month to be able to do this? Because we would still do little things, but yeah, he would be like, do we have the fun money this month? It's like maybe next month.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. Oh, so great.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys, you guys. Philip and Heidi. Indianapolis, Indiana. $300,000 in student loans in six years making. Wow. 100 to 250. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[George Camel]

1, 1, 2, 3.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Babies. No. Feeling like freedom. Wow. This is the Ramsey Show. It's the last call for our two night virtual event, Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials. It's set for May 21 and 22 and you do not want to miss this. I'll unpack my personal playbook on investing and real estate and show you how you can feel confident in your investments too. Tickets are 199. Snag a VIP ticket and you'll get two sessions with a Ramsey professional preferred coach. You can join from anywhere. Go to ramseysolutions.com events and get your ticket today. Running a business is hard. If you've ever known someone that runs a business, you've ever run a business, you know that to be a fact. Running a business is hard. I've done it for almost 40 years. We grew Ramsey from a card table in my living room to where it is today. And guys, it's doable. We also coached about 10,000 small businesses over the last decade or so and continue to coach small businesses in entree leadership all the time. Some days the challenges pile up, but we have put in place a system now where we know the five stages of business and the six drivers that drive a business through the five stages. Those two things working together essentially become the baby steps for small business businesses. It's very well done and it works. The system that we're teaching works. I just wrote a new book called Build a Business yous Love where I am teaching this system, the five stages of Business, Mastering Them and the six drivers. The book comes out in April and it is on pre sale right now for 29.99 and you get over $350 in free bonus items if you sign up now early, including instant access to our Hiring and firing playbook from Entree Leadership. Really good stuff. Early access to the ebook and the enhanced audiobook. The audiobook on this thing is absolutely killer. It's wonderful. So check it all out. @ramseysolutions.com store, build a business you love. If you're not in business but you know someone that is or wants to be, pick this up for them. They will be happy you did. Georgia is in Birmingham, Alabama. Hi, Georgia. How are you?

[Latonya]

Hi. I'm good. How are y'all?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

[Latonya]

Well, I was actually calling because my husband is very obsessed with you in a good way and big on living like no one else. So later we can live like no one else. I've always admired and appreciated the dedication, but lately, it's kind of taken an extreme turn and. And seems to be taking a toll on his mental health, and quite honestly, mine as well, lately. So my question is, how do you suggest finding a balance between financial responsibility and unhealthy fixation?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we need Dr. John Deloney. I think. I don't think I'm qualified for this. I don't know. I mean, what in the world? How. How is this mental health slipping? Because he's extremely focused on a goal that usually has the opposite effect of not mental health problems.

[Latonya]

I understand. Exactly. So it just seems to be the only thing that he can really think about. And it seems like he sees that we're in his mind. He thinks that our financial situation is way worse or we're not where we should be in life right now, Even though, in my opinion, I think that we're in a good place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How long have y'all been working on this?

[Latonya]

Probably recently. Like, the last two or three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

So for three years, he's been super intense.

[Latonya]

Pretty intense.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what about you?

[Rachel Cruz]

She's tired.

[Latonya]

Yeah. It has really been, like. I don't want to seem like I'm, like, ungrateful for his dedication and all the effort that he puts into it, but it starts to kind of make me feel like, should I be worried? Even though I don't feel like we should.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so the two of you sit down and do a budget following our stuff, right?

[Latonya]

We are on the every dollar budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So when you guys sit down and do that, it's not a hopeful, yay, rah. We're making progress. Instead. It's a doom scroll.

[Latonya]

It's more of, like, we should be doing more. He feels like he's not doing enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

Give me an example. He feels like. I mean, like, you're like. You're like, I want to buy some food. And he's like, no, you can't have food?

[Latonya]

Well, not to that extreme, but, like, if we do want to go out to dinner, it is still like, oh, we got to tighten up. We. We don't have any car payments. We don't have any credit card debt. We don't have any student loans. We've got over 100,000 in retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it you're. I'm sorry. Do you know what baby step you're on?

[Latonya]

I do not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're really not plugged into all this stuff. You're just watching him do it?

[Latonya]

It's. Yeah, it's gotten to the point where it's like, I kind of dread talking about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So are y'all. Are y'all out of debt except your house? Yes. Do you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses?

[Latonya]

We do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then that puts you on baby steps, what we call 4, 5, and 6, which means you should move from. We teach that you. And if he listens this intently, he should know this. That you should move from intense to intentionality in baby steps four, five, and six. Four is we're putting 15% of our income away for retirement. Five is we're addressing kids college. And six is if we have any other money after we live our life, then we put that towards the mortgage because we want to get the mortgage paid off in the next five to 10 years. And that is not intense. We teach and live like no one else. Don't go out to eat. Don't go on vacation in the first three baby steps, and that's getting out of debt and having an emergency fund, not counting the house, and you're past that. You should have moved from not going out to eat to going out to eat in your budget with no guilt.

[Latonya]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's our teaching. Okay, so what we're saying is you guys got past the emergency stuff of getting out of debt in the emergency fund, and he refuses to take his foot off the gas.

[Latonya]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

And he's obsessing over every little thing, and it's spinning him out, is what it's doing.

[Latonya]

It really is.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's stressing him out more than giving him freedom. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Latonya]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Which is such an interesting. We talked about this on another show last week together. How money becomes an idol for so many people. And some people, it's the chase of more, more, more, nicer, nicer, nicer. But on the flip side, it becomes an idol in this case, where you're so obsessed with it in a negative way that it's like literally eating into the quality of Your life, because it's all you're thinking about. And that's not how it should be. There should be a lot more freedom. And so there's something in him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. At the baby step that you're on, he's doing it wrong. If he's. If he's that obsessed with our show and with what Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruz teaches. We don't teach what he's doing. We tell you to be intentional. I don't want you being wasteful on this, but it's not intense. Okay. The intensity is no going out to eat beans and rice. Rice and beans. No vacation until you get yourself out of debt and accept the house. Baby step two and finish your emergency fund. You told me you've done that, right?

[Amy]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So now we're just saving for retirement kids, college, and we're working to get the house paid off. And that is intentional. That's the stage you move up in car with cash. That's the stage you buy a new couch if you need one with cash. That's the stage you go on a decent vacation with cash. That's the stage that you go out to eat in your every dollar budget. All of those things should be in your every dollar budget, and there should be room for them. What's your household income, Georgia?

[Latonya]

Around 150 together, combined.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you make plenty of money to become millionaires and to change your family tree and do the things I just said in that last series of sentences.

[Latonya]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So what we want you to reach for, and him too. Him is who I'm talking to, I guess, is financial peace. There's no peace in this discussion. It's that, as Deloney says, let your shoulders drop and exhale. And he's never done that yet, Right?

[Latonya]

Yeah. And, I mean, he's 25, so it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Latonya]

If it's this intense here in this part of life, I can only imagine that it's. If we don't do something about it, it's just going to get a lot more intense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I think you guys need to sit down maybe with a good marriage counsel counselor or maybe with your pastor, because this is kind of a spiritual thing at this stage. It's an emotional and spiritual thing. You just gotta learn to enjoy the ride now. You've done a great job and you need to enjoy the fruits of your labor. My guess is this is an intense dude, period that he probably is this way about a lot of things. I don't know anybody like that. But. But could happen. This is the Ramsay show. Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in.

[Georgia]

The app store, Google Play Store, or.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just click the link in the show notes to download the app. For free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.