Caller (2:38)

NPD is what I've been told I have, but I was, my mom believes when I was, I was vaccinated when I was a kid and my body rejected the vaccine and it caused me to have epilepsy when I was younger and add. And a few.

Dave Ramsey (2:57)

So how does this manifest itself in the workplace? Like you're just a butt.

Caller (3:03)

So what it's caused me to do is challenge authority to be difficult employee to work.

Dave Ramsey (3:09)

What you describe would be normally, I would think belligerence.

Caller (3:13)

Yeah, I guess you could put that in. In that category.

Rachel Cruz (3:16)

Episodes, John, when it happens, like when it occurred. Do you. Are you aware of it? Like when it's happening or how does that work? Because I'm just trying to figure out the tools to put in place for your life going forward. To be able to function in society. Right. I mean, to be able to hold a job.

Dave Ramsey (3:34)

Well, hold a relationship.

Caller (3:35)

I haven't been able to function in society.

Dave Ramsey (3:37)

Yeah, that's the point. And the Navy's not. Navy doesn't do well with people who have trouble with authority. Yeah, I realize that that's going to be. That's going to be a nasty. It's going to be a nasty conflict. I mean the whole military thing is authority, you know that. So it's command structure and you will respect that even if you're command is an idiot. So. Wow. Okay. So are you getting help with this in some way? I wish Dr. Deloney was here today because Rachel and I are going. Oh no, but. Yeah, but the. I mean, is there. Is there a treatment for this where you can become functional?

Caller (4:17)

Honestly, no. There's no cure for it. I've proposed an idea to. Because according to research, the reason why people have NPD is because of low gray matter in the brain. I think that it can be cured with nanobots that you can. You can inject nanobots in the body and then have it. Have them programmed to heal the frontal cortex of the brain.

Dave Ramsey (4:41)

Yeah, we just, we just left my page. I'm. I just. You just left me behind at the airport, dude.

Caller (4:46)

But no, there's no. There's no support really.

Dave Ramsey (4:49)

So what I. What I. What I. You know, just from a common sense, your older brother talking to you, listening to you, who loves you, just from that. What I'm reaching for is to try to find some way that. Cause there's not a career, self employed especially, that pays people for misbehaving. Okay. And so I'm trying to find some way that you create a sustainable life that allows you to be employed, that allows you to be engaged in other relationships, that allows you to do those things. And I.

Rachel Cruz (5:27)

Think that's what I'm wondering, is there.

Dave Ramsey (5:29)

The problem is not the career issue, it's the symptom.

Rachel Cruz (5:33)

Right. So that's what I'm asking you, John. Are there other tools whether it's through therapy or whatnot, that when things happen, right. And even like you could take anxiety as an example like neuro, like something has happened chemically in your body when that happens. But there are tools to get you back grounded when it comes to that. Is there anything when you feel that rising up in you? Has anyone given you any set of tools of awareness? I do this, I do that. To at least be able to with staying like just a 9 to 5, right. To be able to have any level of function. Has anyone given you any tools at all or are you just kind of.

Dave Ramsey (6:06)

Any kind of pharmacology?

Caller (6:09)

Yeah, I mean I have been given tools but one of the things that happens when I go into these jobs is I bring bitterness from previous jobs into it and kind of self sabotage at the early stage. And they already have this. I don't know how to say this but they already know they can see my resume, that I haven't kept jobs. They're kind of looking my mind.

Dave Ramsey (6:35)

It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. That's logical. That makes sense.

Rachel Cruz (6:39)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (6:40)

All right. So dude, the answer is that this is above Rachel and my pay grade. I don't know how to answer your question because the answer to your question is to find some healing so that you can hold a job, so that you can hold a quality relationship because there's not a career path. And self employed people oftentimes become self employed because they can't do anything else. But it doesn't keep you from having to struggle with that because your customers are going to experience what your bosses were experiencing and you're not going to be customers. I mean if you're my mechanic and you're a. But when I'm the customer then you're not my mechanic anymore and you go out of business. So I mean you fix my heat and air. But you're a but well, you're not my heat and air guy anymore. Okay. And so you know, if that's how it's met, if belligerence is how this is manifesting, which I, I'm not an expert in your area so I don't know what I'm talking about. But I'm just listening to you as a friend and saying I'm going to be in the therapy realm. I'm going to be talking to Dr. John Deloney, which I will put you on hold. We'll try to make you a on his show. Maybe he can actually add something intelligent to this conversation because I can't. I don't know what to say other than you've got to get your ability to cope.

Rachel Cruz (7:55)

Yeah. Well. And we have found people that are successful when they have very obvious limitations, whether it's a mental illness, a physical illness, a disability. You know, we talk to people on the show and they are, you know, legally blind, but yet they're making $150,000 a year because they figured out something that got them a job and they figured it out. So there is a level that I don't want. John. The thing I would not want for you is playing into any level of victimhood, that this is a horrible thing. But people do have serious setbacks, but they overcome them and we talk to them on this show all the time. And so I don't know what that looks like for you.

Dave Ramsey (8:31)

Create a predictable environment.

Rachel Cruz (8:32)

100%. So that's what I'm saying though is don't fall victim to this.

Dave Ramsey (8:36)

No.

Rachel Cruz (8:37)

And make excuses so that that's where the work of the healing and the proactive. Know being proactive in that way is going to be your next step. It has to be, man. But I think it is possible. I think there's something that you can do, honestly, John, to find healing and to be a productive member of society.

Dave Ramsey (8:52)

I do too. I think there's something other than nanobots. Hold on. Christian will pick up. We'll get you hooked up with Deloney.

Rachel Cruz (9:09)

Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family time, giving back and remembering what the season is all about. And let's be real, it also means shopping, y'.

Dave Ramsey (9:20)

All.

Rachel Cruz (9:20)

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Dave Ramsey (10:18)

Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Marie is with us in San Antonio. Hi, Marie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Caller (10:27)

Hi. Hi. Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thanks for taking my Call.

Dave Ramsey (10:31)

Sure.

Caller (10:31)

So I never heard this situation on your show. I've been listening to your show for a long time, but is there ever a point when you don't worry about little bills? My husband is a portfolio manager and he manages about half a billion dollars. So money is his business. That's what he knows. When he comes home, this will sound like a joke, but it's not. When he comes home, he will start turning off all the lights. He. If the TV's on and I'm not in the room, he's turning off the tv. I've been banned from buying avocados because one went bad once. And you said, I never want to see an avocado in this house again. But he's not like that with everything. But it's just over the top. At night, he'll turn the heat down to 65 and it's freezing and my nose is cold and I can almost see my breath. And. Is that normal?

Dave Ramsey (11:44)

It's normal to have thermostat wars in every marriage. The other part's not normal?

Rachel Cruz (11:51)

No, Marie, no, no, no.

Caller (11:54)

Just it's. It's.

Rachel Cruz (11:56)

Are you guys in some, like, financially? Where are you guys at?

Dave Ramsey (12:00)

Oh, he has a million dollars.

Caller (12:03)

Half our. Our house was bought for. In cash. Our cars are bought, you know, they're paid in cash. They're not used cars. I just got a brand new up to me, a 22 Super.

Rachel Cruz (12:14)

Marie, how did he. How did he grow up? What was his family of origin with money?

Caller (12:19)

Well, it's funny because his father grew up with a lot of money and they had a house staff, but his mother was very frugal. And you. You would never know that they ever had anything. They. They were just.

Dave Ramsey (12:39)

How old is your husband? How old is your husband?

Caller (12:42)

My husband is 64 and I'm 62.

Dave Ramsey (12:46)

He's too old. He's too old to still be making his mom happy.

Caller (12:50)

Well, his mom passed.

Dave Ramsey (12:52)

You missed my point. You missed my point. Oh, a good little boy turns off all the lights and the TV and doesn't buy wasteful avocados. And he's 64 and he's still living up to her freakish savings techniques.

Caller (13:07)

Oh, my gosh. I just. I don't know how to help him. I don't know what to do.

Dave Ramsey (13:13)

This is not a money issue. This is an emotional and spiritual issue. He's trying to control his environment, okay? And I know I do it too. We all want to control the things we can control. That's called being a grown up. But he's doing it to the damage of his relationship, and he's doing it to the level that it's outside the norm of reasonable behavior. Okay.

Caller (13:41)

Okay.

Rachel Cruz (13:41)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (13:42)

And so the, the thing is, you're sweet and kind, but there's. You're going to reach the end of this and there's going to be an avocado explosion in your house.

Caller (13:54)

Well, when I. I bought one last week and I was stressed.

Dave Ramsey (13:58)

Yeah.

Caller (13:59)

Like, I have to eat this before he sees it.

Dave Ramsey (14:01)

Yeah. And, you know, and here's the deal. I mean, here's the deal. In Texas, you own half of the assets, so that includes avocados. You have no reason to be stressed. But. So this is not. This is not. This is a. This is a control issue. And he does. He's not a mean person. He's not trying to be mean to you.

Rachel Cruz (14:24)

No. It's just the scarcity mentality to these.

Dave Ramsey (14:26)

He's. He's completely operates on the glasses half.

Rachel Cruz (14:29)

Empty, and it's complete fear.

Dave Ramsey (14:31)

Well, he's still trying to please his.

Rachel Cruz (14:32)

Mother of whatever it is, though. There's something. Yeah. The motivation in it is very fascinating. And that's the route I'd want to get to with him, because, Marie, he's not living in freedom at all. Could you imagine being him? Could you imagine walking into a room and for decades feeling this responsibility to turn off every light or, God forbid, something goes bad in the fridge? You know what I mean?

Dave Ramsey (14:51)

What if he was in a situation where he couldn't because it wasn't legal for him to turn off other people's lights? You know, I mean, he's freaking out. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it's like, it's gotta be distressing.

Rachel Cruz (15:00)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (15:01)

So anyway, this is him.

Rachel Cruz (15:03)

And this is an interesting concept when we talk from a spiritual element, Marie. You know, we always. Scripture is very clear that money, it can be an idol so easily. And a lot of people see money as an idol when it comes to us worshiping stuff and nice cars. But this is. This is idolatry in a sense. It has.

Dave Ramsey (15:19)

It.

Rachel Cruz (15:19)

He has become obsessed. Obsessed with it.

Caller (15:22)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (15:22)

To the point that his actions.

Dave Ramsey (15:24)

You're multi millionaires.

Rachel Cruz (15:25)

Are not making sense. And so there's a. There is a big component here for him.

Dave Ramsey (15:29)

Yeah. So I, I, you know, honestly, I think as his wife, you just sit down and say, honey, number one, I'm not living like this anymore. You're making my life miserable. You're weird. Number two. I know. Number two, I think we need to sit down With a marriage counselor and someone who can talk to you about your obsession with these minor little things that don't even affect our lives. You're freakish, and you're driving me nuts.

Caller (15:55)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (15:55)

And I love you.

Rachel Cruz (15:56)

Yeah, but he needs help.

Dave Ramsey (15:57)

You're not mean, but you need. You need to talk to somebody about this and. Or you just need to stop it. Your choice. But I think you probably ought to sit down and figure out why it is you're doing this. We're multimillionaires. I can afford a freaking avocado. I can throw avocados at the dog as a ball if I want. And we're not gonna go broke. You're fine. I can buy all the avocados and dance in them in the front yard, and we're not gonna go broke. You know, it's really ridiculous. You know, the numbers on this. And so. And you know, Sharon and I have had to do this together as we've gone from broke when we got married, to making a lot of money, to going broke, to starting over after the scars of going broke. And we have to sit down and say, okay, we can enjoy this amount of money. We can give this amount of money. We have to almost say it out loud. If we give $100,000 to this charity, this ministry, our life doesn't change. It's okay.

Rachel Cruz (16:58)

And, Marie, what's interesting.

Dave Ramsey (16:59)

We're okay.

Rachel Cruz (16:59)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (17:00)

We can buy an avocado, and it's okay.

Rachel Cruz (17:02)

And in this scenario, because when. When it happens relationally in a marriage, too, I think the hard thing for you is. And something I feel like we've all learned through life, you can't change people. Like, you are not gonna be able to say the right thing to him. Where the light goes on, and he. Or no, the light will go off, I guess, for. Tell me once the light's off. But it's just the idea of, like, you're not gonna. You're not gonna fix him.

Dave Ramsey (17:22)

He.

Rachel Cruz (17:22)

He has to have the ability. That was good. He has to have the ability to change himself. Okay? But you, Marie, can't function in this codependence of trying to make him happy. You will never make him happy. You will never be frugal enough. So you need live in a cave.

Dave Ramsey (17:38)

Collect lint, only come out on triple coupon Thursday.

Rachel Cruz (17:40)

Marie, you need freedom in yourself and in your marriage for you. Because regardless of how he changes, you have to break that codependence that you're. That I'm nervous about the avocado. You have to you have to let that go because that's you. That, that's what you can control your part. You can't control if he's going to change or not. But for you, live in reality, Marie. And if it pisses him off, it pisses him off.

Dave Ramsey (18:03)

Here's the thing.

Rachel Cruz (18:03)

It's not reality.

Dave Ramsey (18:04)

He's not a mean person. He doesn't see this as anger, does he?

Caller (18:09)

No. No, he doesn't.

Rachel Cruz (18:11)

He's a kind man, but he's just controlling.

Dave Ramsey (18:13)

I mean, very controlling. Because there's a lot of fear.

Rachel Cruz (18:17)

Yes.

Caller (18:18)

Yeah. He's very generous with other things. With a lot of things. He's very generous. We have a great, we have a great life. It's wonderful.

Rachel Cruz (18:27)

It's just these, these habits from this, like, yeah, there's no lights or avocados things.

Caller (18:34)

And, and if I go to Sonic and it's not happy hour, I get an earful because why, why didn't I wait 30 minutes?

Rachel Cruz (18:42)

That's his problem. Get my Route 44 cherry limeade.

Dave Ramsey (18:46)

Talk to the hands. Talk to the line made. Yeah. Limit. Will talk to you about this. I'm not talking to you about this bill.

Rachel Cruz (18:52)

And be like, here's all the complaints for the next, like six months that what your complaints are going to add up to is this $100 bill. So, like, just take it. And I don't want to hear complaining. I'm kidding. Don't do that. But that's basically what it adds up to.

Dave Ramsey (19:05)

Yeah, it's. There's. Okay. Honestly, somehow sometimes sitting down with a good counselor, two sessions even, they'll be able to hold up a mirror back to him and he'll see himself. And when he does, he'll be a little bit horrified because this is not a bad person. I really don't believe he's mean. I really don't. I really don't think he's angry at you. You know, earful. But, but that's just fear based. And so. But I think, you know, I would invest in two marriage counseling sessions and, you know, bring this up and do y' all talk it through and see what the counselor looks at him and goes, dude, you're weird.

Rachel Cruz (19:42)

That counselor is going to pull a string and he may be in there for six months.

Dave Ramsey (19:45)

You know what the counselor is going to do? What Deloney says he's going to turn on all the lights.

Rachel Cruz (19:50)

Oh, my gosh.

Dave Ramsey (19:51)

You can't make this up. This is the Ramsay show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality is my co host today. Selling a house the Ramsey way makes homeownership a blessing instead of a curse. Buying a house the Ramsey way makes homeownership a blessing rather than a curse. It is tough out there right now in the real estate market it is tough to buy. It's an interesting time. Prices continue to go up and there is a shortage of houses, there's an inventory shortage and so that's why prices continue to go up. And yet there's people buying. In other words, it's happening more people buying than selling. So if you're a seller in a weird market like this, you need someone representing you that's going to help you maximize the asset and not think crazy about what you're going to pull off here. If you're a buyer in this market, you need someone to talk sanity into you if you get in one of these bidding wars. And that's a high end, high octane, high producing real estate agent that knows their stuff and that's the only ones that are Ramsey trusted. I got my real estate license in 1978 and so I know what a real estate agent looks like. That is a high, high performing professional. And I know one looks like what I call a donut eater. They sit around, eat donuts and talk about real estate, but there's a difference. So who's gonna sell your who's gonna sell your most expensive asset. Your aunt who just got her license three weeks ago and she's sweet. Or somebody that sold 150 houses last year. Nick, say on the aunt say. I'm just saying. Okay. No way. Don't do this. All right? Go to ramseysolutions.com agent and get a Ramsey trusted real estate agent to help you with this. You'll be glad you did. Alan's with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Alan. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Caller (23:28)

Hey, how are you, man? Thank you so much for taking. Taking my call.

Dave Ramsey (23:31)

Sure. What's up?

Caller (23:34)

So got an upside down loan in a car that kind of ran into my car loan now. And sitting down, trying to look at everything that we pan here in Arizona. Of course everything is going up. That's like one our biggest bills that we got the car notice like 695 with like 6.9 inches rate on it. We just trying to figure. I don't want to do a repo. I just need to try to get that payment down somehow, some way.

Dave Ramsey (24:14)

What do you owe on the carbon?

Caller (24:16)

32,000.

Dave Ramsey (24:17)

Okay. Have you looked up what it's worth on private sale on Kelly Blue Book?

Caller (24:22)

Yeah. We even took it to like, Carvana.

Dave Ramsey (24:25)

Carvana is going to pay you wholesale. They're going to pay you wholesale?

Caller (24:28)

Yes. Yeah, CarMax. I mean, they told her that it was worth 22.

Dave Ramsey (24:32)

Okay. It's. That means it's worth 27.

Caller (24:36)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (24:37)

Not because CarMax is trying to rip you off. CarMax is in the business of buying cars at wholesale and selling them at retail. That's how they make a living. And so they never. Why would they pay someone retail for a car? They sell cars for retail. And so if they're willing to buy it from you for 22, you can rest assured it's worth 27. Which leaves you 5,000 in the hole. How stinky is your credit?

Caller (25:01)

That's. It's bad. It's like 515. And that's why I can't refinance.

Dave Ramsey (25:06)

Who's the. Who's the car loan with?

Caller (25:09)

It's with Toyota finance. It's a 22 Toyota Camry.

Dave Ramsey (25:17)

Okay.

Caller (25:17)

So somebody told me about subleasing it to somebody.

Dave Ramsey (25:21)

No, somebody's a fool. No, no, no, no, no.

Caller (25:25)

Okay, okay.

Rachel Cruz (25:27)

And why?

Dave Ramsey (25:28)

Well, because if they don't pay it, you still owe it and they won't pay it.

Rachel Cruz (25:32)

Yeah, you're taking the risk on somebody.

Dave Ramsey (25:34)

Else who buys a car on sublease. Somebody can't buy a car any other way because they're too screw screwed up. People that are so screwed up they can't buy a car any other way ain't gonna pay your sublease. And then you're gonna get screwed again. You've been screwed enough on this car. We need to stop it. Okay, so, wow, what do you make? What's your household income?

Caller (25:55)

So I make 50 myself. My wife, she's a hairdresser, but she recently just got a job at a call center. She makes 18 an hour.

Dave Ramsey (26:06)

Okay, all right, so how much other debt have you guys got?

Caller (26:11)

So when I looked at everything with my kidney transplant and all that type of stuff, my credit alone, I owe like 17,000 right now.

Dave Ramsey (26:21)

Your kidney transplant?

Rachel Cruz (26:22)

Like medical bills?

Caller (26:24)

Medical bills? Yes.

Dave Ramsey (26:25)

You had, you had a kidney transplant?

Caller (26:28)

Yes, sir. Kidney and pancreas transplant. Three years ago. Four years ago.

Dave Ramsey (26:33)

Wow. How you doing?

Caller (26:37)

I'm doing good. God is good. They call me a miracle because they say a lot of people don't get called for.

Dave Ramsey (26:43)

Yeah. I'm thinking after you've been through that, a car payment ain't no step, right? Wow.

Caller (26:48)

Yeah, man.

Dave Ramsey (26:49)

That's something else, Alan. Okay, so here's the answer to your question. Here's what I'm fishing after. All right, answer. Your question is we need to sell the car. In order to sell the car for 27,000, we need $5,000 to put with to be able to pay the car off, right?

Caller (27:06)

Oh, okay.

Dave Ramsey (27:07)

And that gets rid of the whole stinking problem. And then we go save up and get $1,000 hooptie until we can get some money saved to move up out of the land of hooptie. But right now, I mean, because dad gum, man, with what you're paying a month, you could save some serious money towards a car. Ten months of your car payment to buy a $7,000 car, man. Right?

Caller (27:28)

Yes, sir.

Dave Ramsey (27:29)

Wow. So that's the world you're living in. So we've got to get rid of this camera.

Rachel Cruz (27:34)

Do you have any money saved, Alan? Anything?

Caller (27:38)

So that was another question of mine, but they only said I had to ask one. That's a very concern of mine because I got children. I get depressed about it. I'm 42 years and me and my wife, we have no savings. We live in Arizona in a two bedroom condo. And it's 1800amonth. And we just. We don't know what to do. It's just like we don't know how to. To go about it. If that makes sense.

Dave Ramsey (28:06)

Yeah, it does. I've been around where you are, man. It's not fun. I haven't been with the pancreas kidney thing, but, oh, my gosh, I've been with the rest of it. I've been where you are. I know what it feels like to be scared.

Caller (28:17)

I was still working full time doing it too, so it was such a journey. And so, you know, by time my bills are paid and everything like that, it's kind of highly enough to save anything, so that's.

Dave Ramsey (28:29)

Okay. So here's the deal. Let's just. Let's just close our eyes for a second. Right? If. If you had $25,000, your whole life would be different. You'd be 100% debt free and out of this car.

Caller (28:46)

Mm.

Dave Ramsey (28:48)

You'd have paid off all the medical bills and be out of this car, be selling it. If you had $25,000, right.

Caller (28:53)

I would. Yep.

Dave Ramsey (28:54)

Right. Okay, so $1,000 a month is $25,000 in two years. Okay, $1,000 a month, extra jobs. $1,500 a month, extra jobs, get you out in 18 months. I want. I need you to save up $5,000 and sell the stupid Camry as soon as possible. And then just continue cracking that Whip on that 17,000 from then on, and let's be done with this thing and get you a cheapo, cheapo car. I don't want you to drive a cheapo car the rest of your life. I want you to get rid of this thing that's killing you.

Caller (29:38)

Okay?

Dave Ramsey (29:39)

And it's not with the CarMax or Carvana. It's selling it to an individual for 27, not for 22. But you got to have the money to cover the differ because you can't get the title to give to the buyer if you don't pay off the bank. Toyota's got your title.

Rachel Cruz (29:57)

So the moral of the story, Alan, I think the conclusion is what's going to help get you guys out the fastest is raising your income. And if you can do something evenings and map it out too, because this can feel always really overwhelming. But just to say, okay, on average, if I work an extra three hours a night for five nights a week, you know, what is that going to equal in money? If that's driving Uber, if that's instacart, whatever it is, you know, find some side hustle stuff and kind of map it out and just say, okay, how much do I have to work for us to get to a goal of a thousand dollars? And then. And then timeline that out just like what. What Dave did earlier. And then say, what If I did 1500amonth. Right. Like, start running those numbers and actually write them down. You and your wife sit down and that. And your 50,000 doesn't even count her salary. So maybe there's a challenge for you guys, lifestyle wise, to take her in kind of.

Dave Ramsey (30:49)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (30:49)

And throw it. Yep. All of that.

Dave Ramsey (30:50)

So everything at this. Throw everything at it.

Rachel Cruz (30:53)

We're cheering for you, Alan.

Dave Ramsey (30:54)

Yeah. So you hang on. We're gonna put you through Financial Peace University and then I want you to call us back. As you're walking through this, if you've got other questions, you get some money piled up. You don't know exactly what to do, holler. We'll help you, man. We've been scared, too. We know what it's like. This is the Ramsay Show. The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive. Between gifts, travel, and about a thousand limited time offers, your budget can start feeling anything but merry. And that's why I love this. Boost Mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now you'll pay just 10 bucks a month for your first two months. Then only 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk, text and data forever. No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense. Just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. So stop stressing over your budget and and start saving instead. Go to boostmobile.com Ramsey and unwrap the savings today. That's boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details. The Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by why Refi defined defaulted private student loans can wreck your peace of mind, your finances, your relationships. Why refi offers hope with custom refinancing based on your unique situation and ability to pay. Visit yrefi.comramsey today. That's the letter y r e f y.com ramsey not available in all states.

Rachel Cruz (32:51)

Today's question comes from Alexandria in Texas. I'm currently going through a divorce and recently found out that my husband has taken out credit cards in our children's name. He racked up significant amount of debt and emptied his retirement account to pay it off. He keeps telling me it's not possible to pull credit reports on our kids, but I don't believe that that's true because now he wants me to sign paperwork that absolves him from any wrongdoing regarding our kids.

Caller (33:19)

No good.

Dave Ramsey (33:23)

Not happening. Your husband is scum. Anybody that would soon screw his own kids over is scum. I mean, who takes out. That's just absolutely the. I mean, to start with, identity theft is illegal. It's criminal fraud. Okay, so your husband is a criminal. Oh, and who do you steal from? His children. What a jerk. No, I am not signing any paperwork. Except paperwork puts him in jail. That's the paperwork we're signing on him. So, no. Go talk to your lawyer, darling, and tell your lawyer to send him back a little note that says, ello. Ello. Elo. L, O, L, O. L, O, L, O. L, O, L, O. L. Got to be freaking kidding me.

Rachel Cruz (34:12)

You're saying O, L, O, L, O.

Dave Ramsey (34:14)

Whatever. I know, but it's. Laugh out loud, you fool. Okay, so. You have got to be kidding me.

Rachel Cruz (34:21)

Oh, yeah. And you can freeze your kids?

Dave Ramsey (34:25)

Yes. You can pull kids credit reports, and you can freeze them. We know this because we did it when Rachel was. When they first started allowing freezing. Rachel was still a minor. And all of our children entered their adult life with a frozen credit report. Nothing had ever been on it. Nothing could get on it.

Rachel Cruz (34:43)

Well, and you do it, too, to protect them from ID theft. Just in general. Like with their Internet. You know, the Internet.

Dave Ramsey (34:48)

And you need to freeze it because their father is scum. Okay, well, and that will keep him from. If they actually check the credit before they issue the credit card. They won't issue it if it's frozen. Next time he tries to do this. Because there will be a next time. This guy is a serious con artist.

Rachel Cruz (35:07)

Sorry, man.

Dave Ramsey (35:11)

Okay, here. This is interesting. Listen to the verbiage. He keeps telling me it's not possible pull credit reports on a kiss, but I don't believe that's true. So here's. Let me help you with this. Anything this guy says is not true. If his mouth is moving, he's lying. This is a guy who would steal his own children's identity for his own personal benefit. So nothing that comes out of his mouth can be trusted. So the only thing that can be trusted are the actual facts and the behavior, not the verbal wishes. So, no, you can pull credit reports on your kids. You can freeze credit reports on your kids. I have done it.

Rachel Cruz (35:47)

And I would. To make sure. I mean, if he says he paid it off, who knows, you know? So I would pull those credit reports to see what the status is.

Dave Ramsey (35:54)

I would file criminal on him. I'd have the police. I'd set him up, say, hey, somebody stole my kids, stole my kid's identity. Oh, it was him. Absolutely. And then let him figure that one out. Definitely so. Because I don't want this guy near them again. This is unbelievable. Carlo Is in Miami. Hey, Carlo, what's up?

Caller (36:17)

Hi. I hope all you doing are well.

Dave Ramsey (36:19)

We are. How can we help?

Caller (36:22)

I wanted to ask your opinion. My mom, in February, late February, she passed away from her 10 year cancer battle. I'm sorry and I appreciate it. And in her passing, big family squabbles with the scraps left behind. Long story short, I have $110,000 sitting in my bank account. My wife and I tomorrow are going to go get a biopsy for her. They think she possibly might have cancer. And her father that lives with us, his cancer came back and we're dealing with that. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's been, It's a rough 20, 25, but yeah, we're still blessed to be here and making decisions and trying to make things better. So.

Dave Ramsey (37:14)

I assume you wife have health insurance?

Caller (37:17)

Yes, sir. Yes, she works in the medical field.

Dave Ramsey (37:19)

Does her father have health insurance?

Caller (37:22)

Yes, sir.

Dave Ramsey (37:22)

Okay. All right.

Caller (37:24)

So my biggest, my biggest dilemma is this. I've always been a saver. I've. We're, I believe on baby step number five, if not six, we're, we're doing rather well. We just turned 40 this year and I'm trying to balance keeping funds in the reserve for if things go south and living life now. We had a hard time with that with my mother. You know, traveling with her at the end was very difficult, but we made it happen and we made our memories. So.

Dave Ramsey (37:58)

Okay, I'm sorry. What an amazing amount of challenges. I would just throw that in a high yield savings account for six months because in six months you're going to have a lot more information on both of these situations. Okay. How expensive a fight have we got? How long a fight have we got and how much are we going to look at alternative solutions that our insurance won't cover? Okay. And that would be true in either case, but certainly true in your wife's case. Right. And then with her dad, does he have money and how much is he gonna, you know, above. Above is out of pocket after insurance and then is he gonna try or do anything other than that? That is gonna be expensive.

Caller (38:52)

Okay, well, he doesn't have much. He lives with us. We have in laws, quarters and he has Medicare, Medicaid. So most of all of his treatments have been, you know, covered from that. Yeah, it's just, you know, I want to do right by him. He's been a workhorse, much like my mother, his whole life working.

Dave Ramsey (39:11)

Yeah. But I don't think that, I don't think you're going to Have a hundred thousand dollars of medical bills with him?

Caller (39:15)

No, no, no, no. Absolutely not.

Dave Ramsey (39:17)

Okay.

Caller (39:18)

But you know, I don't know what the future holds. So, you know, I have the moneys right now in a Schwab account. I could put that in a high yield savings.

Dave Ramsey (39:30)

I just put it in high yield savings and just forget it's there. It's just sitting there. And then as soon as you actually can quantify these situations a little bit in terms of how long is this gonna. How long are we gonna be in this fight and what's the actual out of pocket expense from these two different fights, then that tells you if you can invest and begin to do some other things with some of that money. Well, let's pretend that it's a minor issue with your wife. Okay? And it's nothing. We're done. Six months from now. It's way in the rearview mirror. The biopsy was benign. No problems, no issue. We're done. Okay. We had a few hundred dollars in deductibles or whatever some CO pays. We're done. Then you don't have to worry about this hundred K for that purpose. I'm not going to leave it around for vague worries, but I'm gonna leave it around for specific worries.

Caller (40:29)

Well, one of the reasons why I've left it there in that account also is she's attempting to do a career change, which is drastically going to change her income. She currently makes about $100,000 a year and her career change could drop us about $30,000 a year. So it's a pretty big shortfall that.

Dave Ramsey (40:48)

Can you not live on what you make?

Caller (40:51)

Well, in Miami it's a little.

Dave Ramsey (40:52)

Can you not live on what you make with her career change?

Caller (40:57)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (40:58)

If you can't, she doesn't need to do the career change.

Caller (41:01)

Yeah. I mean, it is a luxury and she wants to do it to be home.

Dave Ramsey (41:04)

More luxury is fine, but can you. If you can't live on it, you can't do it.

Caller (41:10)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (41:11)

Because if you got to feed your household $30,000 a year, in three years, this money's gone. And then you're screwed. You got a burn rate on this, man. So you don't create sustainability from savings. So that's a completely different subject than you called with. But yeah, you've gotta, you've gotta create a budget that you guys can live on. So if you can afford to live on without touching this money, her career change, she can do it. If she can't, if you can't, she.

Rachel Cruz (41:37)

Can'T do it or you guys change lifestyles, you gotta change something.

Dave Ramsey (41:41)

Yeah, but this hundred thousand, not gonna save you on that. Not even gonna come close. So no, that won't work.

Rachel Cruz (41:47)

But.

Dave Ramsey (41:47)

But having it set aside to make sure you turn the corner on some cancer diagnosis. Until you turn the corner, I'd let it sit there. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. And you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you gotta be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their homebuyer edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market, you can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com to get started today. That's ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement. Homebuyer edge and seller guarantee are available.

Rachel Cruz (43:19)

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Dave Ramsey (43:21)

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Rachel Cruz (43:23)

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Dave Ramsey (43:40)

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey your host Rachel Cruz number one best selling author, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co host. Today Nicole is in Mississippi. Hi Nicole, how are you?

Caller (43:55)

Hi Dave, how are you?

Dave Ramsey (43:56)

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Caller (43:59)

So I'm having a bit of a dilemma. Excuse me. I'm a little nervous. Okay. My fiance and I, we get married next week on Friday.

Dave Ramsey (44:09)

Congratulations.

Rachel Cruz (44:10)

Coming up.

Caller (44:12)

Yes, very soon. We are excited about that. But I am still in the mindset of my debt, his debt sort of thing. My, my dilemma is. I'm having a dilemma with using my $800. I'm on baby step one to throw at my credit card that I am behind on. And my minimum is half of my take home pay. So it's half of what I make in a month. That's what my minimum is.

Dave Ramsey (44:43)

And that is the only card. I'm sorry, what Is your minimum.

Caller (44:46)

That's 2734.

Dave Ramsey (44:49)

What do you owe on this credit card?

Caller (44:51)

13,000.

Dave Ramsey (44:54)

And you have a $2,700 payment on 13,000?

Caller (44:59)

Yes. I fell behind for a few months, and then it's just interest added on and it's becoming unbearable. And I don't want to.

Dave Ramsey (45:13)

That's not the normal minimum payment. It's all the back payments.

Caller (45:17)

Yes, it's normally around 300 or 400.

Dave Ramsey (45:20)

Oh, that sounds more like it.

Caller (45:22)

Okay. Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (45:23)

All right, so and you bring home what, 5,000, 6,000amonth?

Caller (45:29)

About 5,000, yeah. Yes.

Dave Ramsey (45:31)

And you're. You're getting married and he has how.

Caller (45:34)

Much debt he has about 40.

Dave Ramsey (45:39)

And you only have 13 or you have a car and everything else, or what?

Caller (45:44)

So together we have about $79,000 worth of debt.

Dave Ramsey (45:49)

Okay. Which means you have another 20 something other than this 13.

Caller (45:53)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (45:54)

On what?

Caller (45:56)

It's personal loans. I owe a family member. It's a various of other things.

Dave Ramsey (46:03)

Okay, and so your household income is about 80, right? Your income and what's his.

Caller (46:10)

So my income is about, like I said, that 5,000 and his is about the same a month as, well.

Dave Ramsey (46:18)

Your take home pay. Yeah. Okay.

Caller (46:19)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (46:20)

All right, so that's $120,000 take home pay. And so you're probably making 150 or so. Okay. All right. And we need to pay off 80 overall, so.

Caller (46:33)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (46:34)

Really? You don't really have a minimum payment of $2,700. You have a single. A single payment of $2,700 to get current.

Caller (46:45)

Okay, right.

Dave Ramsey (46:47)

Because the next month it won't be 2,700, it'd be 300.

Caller (46:52)

Well, if I. If I don't pay on it, If I don't get caught up on it.

Dave Ramsey (46:56)

If you pay 2,700, the next month, your payment would be 300.

Caller (47:00)

Yes, that's correct.

Dave Ramsey (47:01)

That's what I'm saying. Okay, so what I would do is just call a credit card company and ask them to roll that in and reset your payment.

Caller (47:09)

Well, I called them. I don't have a problem saying their names. Capital One. I called them and they said that there's nothing that they can do.

Dave Ramsey (47:17)

There's nothing I can do. You're not gonna get paid. How's that? You get nothing. Honey, if you don't work with me because I got no money, I can't pay you $2,700. I can pay you 300. If you want to reset the payment, that's fine. Probably I need to talk to your supervisor because apparently Your two brain cells aren't together. This is how you talk to Capital One. What's in your wallet? Stupid. You know, I mean, come on. Of course they can roll that in. They do it every day, all day long. But you got some junior birdman on the phone up there in a cubicle, right? And so you got. You got to nail them. That's what you have to do. And then. And then. Then catch them up anyway because you got to get the whole stupid thing paid off. And remember how they treated you the next time you get ready to whip out that card or do any business with this company.

Caller (48:08)

Oh, no, I'm done.

Dave Ramsey (48:09)

I cut the stupid thing up and let them know that we're done. We're breaking up here. You aren't. You aren't all you were cut out to be. I don't care which particular movie star says gives me financial advice on your stupid commercials.

Caller (48:27)

Oh, it would. It would hurt me to close. It.

Dave Ramsey (48:32)

Doesn'T matter. Don't matter. You close or not, you still got exactly the same problem, so.

Caller (48:38)

That's true.

Dave Ramsey (48:39)

Yeah. So, you know, here's what you. I just call and mess with them and just, you know, be. Be. Start out.

Rachel Cruz (48:45)

You're nice, Nicole. You got to kind of start out, hype out your, you know, hype up yourself.

Dave Ramsey (48:49)

Pleasant. And then end up nasty before you get off. Yeah. Get ready to dial the nasty up pretty quick as you're on the phone if their brains aren't working, because sometimes, apparently they aren't. And so, you know, now then the trick is, it doesn't matter. In the end of just a few months, you're going to have a zero balance on this because you're going to get paid off because you make $120,000 after you get married. And you all need to clean this $80,000 up fast. And one of the first orders of business is this credit card because it's probably one of the smallest debts you all have, right?

Caller (49:20)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (49:21)

So we're going to list that in the debt snowball, smallest to largest, and I'm going to pound their face in, and it's going to sound like $2,000 a month or $3,000 a month, regardless of what their minimum payment is. Your minimum payment is, I want you morons out of my life forever. Okay? And that I'm teaching you to be a little bit angry about this because that's a good thing that'll push you through this and cause you to just pound their face in with the math as you're doing your Budget. You're going to take that Capital One. Take that, Capital One. Take that, capital one. 30 years ago, 35 years ago, American Express called Sharon and asked her why she would stay with a man that wouldn't pay his bills. And I'm still pissed. 35 years later, I'm still pissed. I would still find that guy if I could find him, you know, because she called me crying at work, like, I think in the same thing, right? And so. Oh, my God, these guys, they're just, they're just ridiculous company.

Rachel Cruz (50:20)

And Nicole, for you and your husband, I mean, make this a year. The first year of marriage, it's a crusade. And you guys are working extra at night. Like, I mean, you're just, you're high five in, in the middle of the night because you don't see each other. I mean, like, make it really be done with it. Like, get really, really aggressive with this. And then it's done forever. And then for the rest of your marriage, you guys have no debt, you have your whole income, no stress. It's a beautiful thing. And so the more intense you guys can be in this first year and if you guys want kids later, even before the kids, like, this is, this is the time to do it.

Dave Ramsey (50:51)

So if you don't pay them 2700 and you pay them 2100 because their first thing on your debt, snowball. And that's all you squeeze out of the first month's budget.

Rachel Cruz (50:59)

Or a thousand.

Dave Ramsey (51:00)

Or you pay them a thousand. Whatever you pay them, I don't care. Then the next month you pay them a bunch more, and the next month you pay them a bunch more. I don't really care what they think. It's irrelevant. Just, just pounds. The.

Rachel Cruz (51:11)

Is the interest, right? You get 26% on this amount, you know, but it's 22.

Dave Ramsey (51:15)

It's on the whole thing.

Rachel Cruz (51:16)

I know.

Dave Ramsey (51:16)

It's on the whole. It's on the whole 13,000.

Rachel Cruz (51:18)

Yeah, that's true.

Dave Ramsey (51:18)

Period. It doesn't matter. The interest is the interest until you get it paid off. Credit card get, get it knocked out. What's in your wallet? Money. Now, because I don't have you people in my life. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. I tell you what. I spent the first part of my career doing a dumb thing. I would bring in coat people we were coaching and I would call and negotiate with the credit card companies and set payment plans for the people we were coaching. And it taught me to hate credit card companies because they're so moronic. And I'm still. It still rings in my brain and just I. Because I just know the conversation she had, it just pisses me off. Still, You already know the power of generosity. And the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what preborn does. And you can trust them to do it. Well, they don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy clinics across the country with ultrasound machines, training grants and evangelism tools. They're faithful with each dollar so moms in crisis can see the life in their wombs and hear the truth that brings eternal life. Because here's the thing, when a mom sees her baby on that ultrasound screen, she chooses life 80% of the time. And your gift of just $28 covers the cost of one ultrasound. Or if you're able, you can purchase an ultrasound machine through preborn and have it placed in one of their clinics so women will choose life for years. Your donation brings hope and truth when mothers feel alone and fear is loud. So I'm asking you to give to preborn today, even just $28 to provide one ultrasound. Go to preborn.com Ramsey or call 855-601-2229. Because every baby saved is more than a life preserved, it's a life changed. That's preborn.com Ramsey. Rachel Cruz Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Peter is in Toronto, Ontario. Hi Peter, how are you?

Caller (54:16)

Hi. Good, thank you.

Dave Ramsey (54:17)

Good. How can I help?

Caller (54:20)

So my question is I recently inherited some money from my father who passed away and it's enough money to pay off the mortgage on the house. And my question is whether I should do that or invest the money in investments like in Canada. It's not an ira, it's an rrsp. And you know, things like that. And we do have, I have two children. I'm married, I'm 60. My wife is 55. We have 11 year old twins. And so we do have a college account for them. We have an investment fund for them as well. So there's only enough money to either pay off the mortgage or not. The wrinkle in the question is, to be blunt, my wife is a compulsive shopper. So we've been married 16 years and we've gone to counseling on this issue a number of times. And you know, she promises to change and to stop and it doesn't change. My wife's parents are not wealthy, but they were comfortably middle class. They were very wise with their money. So when we got married, they actually bought the house as a gift for us that we live in. It's in my wife's name alone. I didn't realize how much credit card debt she had racked up, and it was in the hundreds of thousands. So we ended up having to get a mortgage on the house to pay off the credit card debt. And that mortgage is in both of our names. The. You know, the. We're paying right now. It's a adjustable rate mortgage. We're at 8.34%. The bank is saying that they're going to raise the rate soon. You know, like money wise. It is kind of paycheck to paycheck. So paying off the debt.

Dave Ramsey (56:43)

So let me get this straight. If you take your inheritance from your father and pay off the mortgage from your wife's compulsive spending in a house that's in her name.

Caller (56:53)

Yes. But the mortgage is in both of our.

Dave Ramsey (56:56)

But now the house is free and clear and it's not in your name.

Caller (56:59)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (57:00)

That doesn't. That doesn't end well.

Caller (57:04)

I'm not worried about that. Well, a few reasons. One, our marriage is strong.

Dave Ramsey (57:13)

When. When was your marriage strong? Your wife is a compulsive shopper. Runs up $100,000. How do you call that a strong marriage?

Caller (57:24)

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (57:31)

So, no, I'm not paying off someone else's house who has an addiction.

Caller (57:35)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (57:37)

How easy is it to get your name on the deed? I'm just curious. That doesn't fix her issues. But I'm just from an asset perspective.

Caller (57:45)

Well, she could, you know, with her permission, add my name to the deed. I am not. I'm not the kind of person who fights over money.

Dave Ramsey (58:01)

And I. I wasn't asking you to fight over money. I was asking you to be wise.

Caller (58:07)

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I. Her parents. I love her parents very, very much. And by the way, her parents are.

Dave Ramsey (58:13)

That is nothing to do with it.

Caller (58:15)

Yeah, well, I would feel, you know, they.

Rachel Cruz (58:19)

Peter, you guys are married. You guys are married, okay? So if you're gonna share in assets and share paying off her debt, you have just of a right to have your name on the assets of.

Dave Ramsey (58:29)

It's not your marriage.

Rachel Cruz (58:31)

You're not being greedy in that sense.

Dave Ramsey (58:32)

Unloving act towards her. By the way, we're paying off her debt. Wasn't your debt. She ran it up.

Caller (58:41)

Yeah, okay. I mean, her. Her argument would be that it was for necessities, for the house. The thing is, she overbuy, so, you know, like children's clothing. Our kids Had a hundred thousand dollars. Yeah. Dozens and dozens of shirts and pants and, you know, stuff like that.

Rachel Cruz (59:02)

Right. If we're talking 10 grand, we can probably nitpick if it was right or wrong, but 100 grand, I mean, that, that's. That's an obvious crazy number. I mean, that's.

Dave Ramsey (59:11)

That's wild. Yeah, that's. Oh, and by the way, it was, it was under the cloak of darkness. You didn't know it happened.

Rachel Cruz (59:17)

Yeah, it was hidden. So. Peter, I want to go back to this.

Caller (59:19)

I didn't realize. Yeah, I didn't realize. Like, I saw stuff coming in, but I, I like, I would. Prior to our marriage.

Rachel Cruz (59:27)

Okay. Besides that. That card specifically or that whole $100,000 in general, are. Do you guys. Guys talk about money or do you all have a budget together? Like, do you. Do you kind of. Do you know what's going on or does she just handle the money? How does it work in your marriage?

Caller (59:42)

So she has always handled the money.

Rachel Cruz (59:46)

Okay.

Caller (59:47)

And before our marriage, I never had credit card debt. You know, like once in my life when I was very young, in my twenties, Sure, I paid.

Rachel Cruz (59:55)

Do you have access, Peter, to your accounts? Like, do you check in on the, on the accounts and kind of have a pulse of what's going on at all?

Caller (60:01)

You know, I do. I'm gonna. Now that our kids are a bit. When the kids were young, like, we were barely getting any sleep and you know, with both of us working full time, we were exhausted. But now that the kids are more self sufficient.

Rachel Cruz (60:18)

Yep.

Caller (60:19)

I feel like I have the time now that I can spend.

Rachel Cruz (60:22)

Okay. Because that's what I would. That's my encouragement to you because we find this so often that one's spouse in the marriage takes the weight of the money, that they're the ones that pay everything, know everything, do everything. And to a degree, that spouse has so much pressure and responsibility, it's very isolating. And that's been your wife. Now, I'm not justifying at all her stuff of a hundred grand of going into credit card debt and you not knowing all of it. But also you didn't know because you don't know what's going on. So, Peter, I.

Dave Ramsey (60:48)

You're no help.

Rachel Cruz (60:48)

You need to. You need to step up in this and sit down and be a team together. And you're a very kind person. But when you said I'm not the kind of person that fights with money, these are the fights you need to have because your marriage needs a level of unity and a level of agreement. That is so. That is so deep that you guys are on such a level of vulnerability and honesty that it may come up. There may be some fights, and that's okay. Conflict is okay. And this is an area of your marriage you need to be fighting about, Peter, and not being irrational and angry and hurtful.

Dave Ramsey (61:22)

But, man, you.

Rachel Cruz (61:23)

You. You need to step into this. Yes, Peter, you really. I mean, she may feel very alone in it and she acts out, you know, for whatever reason, in this way. But just. I'm just saying you need to step in. And I would say that to any caller, when it comes to marriage, you guys need to be more of a team. And that's gonna be a. That's the. That's the exact reason you wanna push into this. Because it's going to create a better marriage. It really will. It's gonna not be fun at first because you're gonna be. You guys are gonna be maybe, you know, back and forth with stuff, but that's what creates a level of intimacy, because you're doing it together.

Dave Ramsey (61:54)

So.

Caller (61:55)

Yeah, okay.

Dave Ramsey (61:56)

Enablers. People who psychologists or therapists label as an enabler, as I've worked with them over the years, they're the nicest, sweetest people. They don't want to cause a ripple. They don't want conflict. They want everybody to be happy. And the irony is that it's the most hurtful thing that you can do to not cause the conflict, because the conflict is where healing comes from. And again, not a raging, angry conflict, but a conflict based on strength and wisdom. And so what you're thinking about doing is just trying to hide this lump under the rug again by paying off the mortgage, leaving it in her name, which is absolutely ridiculous. Dude, that's just nuts, okay? With what you've described here. And you think, then it's all going to be okay if you just keep being nice, it's all going to be okay. If I keep being nice, it's going to be okay. I love her mom and dad. They're sweet people. I wouldn't want to hurt them. If I keep being nice, it's all going to be okay. And, dude, that's a classic. It's a classic case study. And so you've confused nice. By being so nice, you've actually caused harm and you didn't mean to. You would never cause harm intentionally. But I want you to be the surgeon that cuts so that there's healing a little hurt, so that there's healing a little conflict, so that there's healing. You don't pull the splinter out, it's going to fester. Thank you for joining us, America. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Radio Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co host. Today, Des Moines, Iowa is next. Julia is with us. Hi, Julia, how are you?

Caller (64:04)

Hi, Dave and Rachel, how are you?

Dave Ramsey (64:05)

Great. How can we help?

Caller (64:08)

Well, my husband and I have been working the baby steps plan for about nine years and as of last year, we hit step seven.

Rachel Cruz (64:14)

Oh, congratulations.

Caller (64:17)

Thank you. We are mortgage free, we're debt free, everything. We are looking for mentorship and being outrageously generous. And I was just wondering if you had any book recommendations or how we do that. We tithe, but you know, above and beyond that, we're just looking for a little bit of mentorship.

Dave Ramsey (64:34)

Good for you. Well done.

Rachel Cruz (64:36)

It's a great question. So I'll just tell you what we do. Julia. I don't know if this is helpful at all. And I think there are some. Yeah, there's some books out there. I think when it comes to this idea of being generous. But, but you know, from like a tactical standpoint, above the tithe, how Winston and I have done it, there are organizations that we align with and ones that are close to our heart. Meaning like there's one organization we've given to for 15 years. Cause it was an integral part of our story and we really believe in what they do. So we give there. There's been elements of different times in life where like, you know, foster care has been big on my heart and we've given to things towards that or Winston's had things. So. So from the organizational standpoint, it is always fun to be able to support someone who's doing what you love and what you believe in. So we've done, we've done it that way. And then this year in January, we're doing something different. We're just adding in on the giving section of our every dollar app. We are putting. We put a. An amount of money every single month. And we're forcing us, we're forcing each other, we're holding each other accountable to have that money be given away at some point in the month. So that could mean like a very generous tip could be part of that money. It could go towards if we hear something of, you know, a friend's family member, X, Y and Z. And we're able to kind of just like anonymously give some money there. So we have found more energy in that, honestly, because the organization giving is wonderful and it's a, you know, it's great people Just do incredible things. And with the Ramsey foundation that we as a bigger Ramsey family are involved in, there's incredible organizations. But there's something about this joy for me of seeing someone or intersecting your story with someone else and able to help kind of in the moment there. And again, it could be anonymous, not or not, but giving room for those things to occur. And what that's done for me, Julia, is it's caused me in an everyday instance just to be looking and I'm more aware of people because I'm like, okay, we have this money that I want to give and I do as a believer, I'm like, there's something spiritual about it where I'm like, okay, where's the Holy Spirit kind of nudging me here? And I've just found with giving, when you have a pulse on that and you're just interacting with that part of your soul, if you will, it just creates a richer life where I feel like before we were a little bit tactical with our giving. Like we gave our tithe and we'd give to an organization. But there's something about interacting with individuals on a day to day basis that again, just that that's one element, one way to give. And I've enjoyed that. I mean, we're only in February, it's only been two months of it, but there's. I don't know, there's just like this warmth to life there. It came alive again for us because sadly, giving can get stale if you just have it on autopilot. Right? So like part of this is interacting with the money you're giving too. So that's, that's what Winston and I do. But Dave and Dave and Sharon do it on a larger scale.

Dave Ramsey (67:34)

But it's still, it's the same. We budget a certain amount just for. And some of this we keep on the books and some of it we don't worry about as far as tax return goes, but just random acts of kindness. We just run into somebody and we want to always look across the restaurant and pick up the tab for a person in uniform. You know, we always want to do that. We always want to catch somebody doing something we love and just participate in it. That kind of stuff that's low budget doesn't take a lot of money. There's a lot of joy and it's a lot of fun and just, you know, we'll look across and see one of our team members and is there with their spouse and we just end up picking up. Of course I charge that back to the company. But that's an HR thing. But yeah, I may buy their dinner if they're lucky enough to land in the same restaurant I land in. But anyway, just something like that, just catch people doing something right and random acts of kindness just catch somebody that, you know, where a few hundred dollars means a lot. And I've been in those situations and a lot of people out there have been. So you want to do that, but that's a smaller portion of dollars. But it's like Rachel said, it's very hands on. It's a lot of joy in it. Random acts of kindness, we call it that. And it's just God money floating around, looking for a place to land. And so then we, with the Ramsey Family foundation, we do not give to like a bazillion different people $500, because that'll drive you nuts doing the tax returns on it. So instead we pick just a few and really, really help them. And they're always something that is close to our heart. And many times we know the people involved in the ministry. We know the character of the people involved. We know. And the last thing I'll add to that, that Rachel didn't bring up is that I learned many years ago because I was giving a lot of. And we've always been outrageously generous. It's part of our DNA and it's the most fun you'll have with money. So you're gonna love this. I love this question. But anyway, I treat large gifts like we're talking about as if I was doing an investment into a company. If I'm gonna buy into that company, I'm going to know what their strengths and weaknesses are. And I'm gonna make sure that, that I'm not participating. I'm not enabling incompetence or bad behavior of some kind. To the extent I can tell, we don't do that. So, for instance, we don't give to organizations, ministries that run debt. Well, duh. Of course, Dave Ramsey is not going to pay a bank through a ministry. No. So if you're going to run debt, you're not going to be on our list of donations. We don't. We don't believe in debt. We don't borrow money. We teach people not how dumb would it be for us to take our generosity and give it to a bank through your ministry because you wanted to have a building for your ministry instead of being a renter. No, be a renter. So you know that that's, that's one of the things. And that upsets people sometimes, but. Oh, well, I don't know why, it's kind of obvious to me. But anyway, so we do stuff that is consistent with us, and we're looking for their operational excellence. Because if you're going to put. Put X number of dollars in there, you're investing it. God's money into God's kingdom. God expects some excellence there. Just like, you know, those that are faithful in little things will be given more to manage. And so it's not the diligent prosper, not the inept and incompetent.

Rachel Cruz (71:00)

Yeah. And then I would also say, Julia. And something I feel like we've learned from you guys is as you guys go down this path, I know you're on baby steps. You just. Guys just got to baby step seven. But as you continue to build wealth, and I'm talking like in the next decade or two also with your giving, we've put ourselves in a position where we're not the largest giver, meaning that they are so dependent upon us to fund the ministry or what they're doing. Because that puts you kind of in these, like, handcuff positions where you feel bad that if something changes and you're like, oh, yeah, we're gonna give over here, then you feel like I. We feel like we can't because we're disrupting such a huge part of their operating budget. If it weren't for us, they wouldn't be here. So even from a percentage level, I would not want to be the largest donation that they get and that they're dependent upon you to continue their ministry. Like, that just puts a. It puts a weird dynamic and pressure element to that too. So that's something to think about. That we had some friends that they ran into that and it was. It just gets messy. If you want to stop it, then you're like, oh, my gosh, am I closing down a ministry because I'm choosing not to give here anymore? So it's just another filter to think through.

Dave Ramsey (72:03)

If you'll do what you're doing right now and be intentional about the subject of generosity, like you're intentional about the subject of getting out of debt, or you're intentional about the subject of investing, you'll do really good at it and you're going to get great joy from it. What happens with some people when they get to generosity? They just go, oh, I'm just going to give it. And it's all. It's up to God to figure it out. And like, no, no, God gave it to you to Manage. And so it's not up to God to figure it out. So I think that person is going to misuse the money but it's going to be between them and God. No, no, that's not how it works. You need to be a grown up. You can't be lazy on the generosity and really hardcore on the investing. So again, you don't want to take the joy out of it. You don't want to turn into a bureaucratic nightmare every time you give $2.

Rachel Cruz (72:50)

But, and that's why I like, you know, the setup of having kind of those three buckets, the tithe, the organizational that you know, and then just a little bit of that mind that we're talking about that you just have throughout the month that you're like, I just am going to be aware of, of people around me and when I feel this prompting like I get to bless them in that moment. It's kind of those three buckets that.

Dave Ramsey (73:08)

I, that one ends up being dollar for dollar, by far my favorite.

Rachel Cruz (73:12)

Oh, it is like.

Dave Ramsey (73:13)

But it's, it's impossible to do that at scale as an individual. It's very hard. It'd be like your full time job.

Rachel Cruz (73:19)

That's all you did.

Dave Ramsey (73:19)

You'd be like that guy on YouTube, give him money all the time. That'd be neat. But yeah, hadn't got that job yet. This is the Rams show. Do you want to keep more money in your pocket and not Uncle Sam's? Then listen up. There are tax deductions and credits you could maximize before the end of the year by connecting with an experienced tax professional like a Ramsey Trust trusted tax pro. They know the tax code inside and out so you don't have to and they can help you file. When tax season rolls around, get a trusted tax pro by going to ramseysolutions.com taxpro ramseysolutions.com taxpro. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. James, do you have the numbers on what that thing this video did on social? I don't know them off. It was millions and millions but I don't want to super exaggerate. Might have been 10 million. Not off the top of my head, but I can go look. Okay. If you get it, that'd be great. So our social media team goes back through the archives of this show and they found a talk or call I took. Gosh, it had to be before 2019 because it was in the old studios. We've been in this building since 2019. And I could tell by the background, obviously, in the video. And they posted a clip of it. And sometimes we around here are a little bit caught off guard by, you know, we may post 10 clips. One of them will have, you know, a million views, and one of them will have, you know, 40 million views or something. And so on Instagram. I've got about 5 million people on Instagram or something like that. And so you find it 5.8 million on Instagram. We're looking at 5.8 million this thing viewed on Instagram when they posted it, which we don't understand sometimes why these. Why some of them take off. And you guys are so responsive to some of them, and other ones just that we think are really cool, don't take off. Anyway, this thing blew up, so we're gonna play it, and then Rachel's gonna tell us why it blew up. No, I'm kidding.

Rachel Cruz (76:03)

I was like, I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it.

Dave Ramsey (76:05)

All right, watch careful then. Here we go.

Caller (76:08)

I have 35 credit cards.

Dave Ramsey (76:11)

Okay. Are you ready to endure some pain to get rid of this mess?

Caller (76:17)

It's going to leave us with hardly anything.

Dave Ramsey (76:20)

Are you ready to endure some pain to get rid of this mess?

Caller (76:24)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (76:25)

What about your husband?

Caller (76:25)

Oh, yes. Yes, he is.

Dave Ramsey (76:27)

Okay. And the two of you need to sit down together, go on EveryDollar.com and do your budget tonight. You can download it to your iPhone or your Android or your desktop. It's free. Check comes in, all the money goes out. And then you're broke, and you can't figure out how to go to the grocery store.

Rachel Cruz (76:41)

Yes, exactly.

Dave Ramsey (76:41)

You're not living by any kind of plan. This money is owning you. You don't own it, and you got to get the other side of it. And the budget helps you do that. You're telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

Caller (76:51)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (76:51)

And then you and your husband are in agreement. We're going to sacrifice deeply because I am so sick of living like this. And when you get sick and tired of sick and tired, you're ready to change your life, kiddo.

Caller (77:02)

Yes, you can.

Dave Ramsey (77:03)

You can do it. And you call me back if you need help, okay?

Caller (77:06)

Okay. Thank you, Dave.

Dave Ramsey (77:08)

It sounds like a call I've done 5,000 times. Well, 30.

Rachel Cruz (77:11)

Did you say 35? Maybe that was it, though. 35 credit cards.

Dave Ramsey (77:14)

Yeah, but, I mean, it's a lot, but yeah. It's a George Costanza wallet, right? I mean, you know, I don't know what that Means on Seinfeld, George had a wallet that was 6 inches thick.

Rachel Cruz (77:25)

Yeah, Seinfeld, in a whole different world. Okay, I know I'm friends, the generation, Friends versus Seinfeld. Sorry, but no, I mean.

Dave Ramsey (77:39)

Either. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why 10 million people wanted to see that.

Rachel Cruz (77:44)

It's probably $35,000. And everything you said in there, though, is all true. You want to be the one controlling your money, not your money controlling you. You actually want to be able to have a say. You're exhausted of how you've been living. I mean, it's, it is all of that pent up tension when it comes to feeling lost and hopeless with money.

Dave Ramsey (78:03)

Right?

Rachel Cruz (78:04)

I mean, it's, it's the exact pain points so many people feel when you.

Dave Ramsey (78:09)

Reach the point of being sick and tired and being sick and tired. And Les Brown, the great motivator, I've said it a thousand times, always said you should finally say, that's it. I had it. That's what I was asking her. Challenge. Are you ready? Yep. Because you've got. Because change is painful. Doing something you've never done before is scary.

Rachel Cruz (78:25)

Yep.

Dave Ramsey (78:26)

It's frustrating. It's painful. But you're gonna keep getting what you've been getting unless you change the mix. If you keep making a cake and it's strawberry and you want chocolate, you should change the recipe. You know, you don't be surprised it's chocolate again. Who knew? Well, of course it's the same stupid cake. You made the same stupid recipe. So you keep doing that in your life, it's the same thing. And so if I keep eating what I've been eating, my body's going to continue to look exactly like this.

Rachel Cruz (78:51)

Well, in any, any level of growth. And I'm, and I'm thinking, you know, relationally, financially, physically, like any of that. So I mean, all of it, there's a level of, of change that is so uncomfortable. But you have to be uncomfortable to grow. If you keep staying where you, you know what I mean? How you've been, you're gonna, there's no pain involved because there's no friction. It's just, you're just doing the same thing over and over again, right? So when you are changing, it's gonna be uncomfortable and there's gonna be some pain, but that means you're growing, you're growing in an area of your life and you're not stagnant.

Dave Ramsey (79:25)

It's not, it's not Change. The pain is not for nothing. It's transformation.

Rachel Cruz (79:30)

Yep.

Dave Ramsey (79:31)

It's the. The. The strain of the caterpillar pushing out of the cocoon allows it to. To become a butterfly. It's transformation. It's not accidental. And so you can count on you becoming the next awesome version of you hurting. It's going to be painful at times. No discipline seems pleasant at the time. The Bible says no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but ding, ding, ding. But it yields a harvest of righteousness. So, no, you know, no time. You know, you and Winston got the whole family doing cold plunges at no point in doing a cold plunge.

Rachel Cruz (80:18)

My children.

Dave Ramsey (80:20)

Yeah, we put the little babies in there, too. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No, but I mean, you got. At no point is this fun, but the result is inflammation's down, all these other things. And, you know, the result is it's.

Rachel Cruz (80:33)

Good for you, man.

Dave Ramsey (80:34)

You pay a price to get better, and that price is the pain of change. And until you have enough pain where you are today, you will not walk towards the pain of change. The pain of today can be just simple to simply disgusted with myself, or it could be I'm about to get foreclosed on. I mean, the pain of today can be a lot of different kinds of pain, but you can manifest pain today. You can just get sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Rachel Cruz (81:04)

That's right.

Dave Ramsey (81:05)

Yeah. It's a disgust, right? And then you go, okay, 35 credit cards. I'm broke. I look like I'm in Congress. I'm not living like this anymore.

Rachel Cruz (81:13)

And then giving her a tool. Every dollar. I think people are. They're. They're needing something to help them in this. In this world of money. They're needing a tool, they're needing something to assist them, because it is. It's hard to do it on your own. Right. I mean, I have a trainer to help, you know, with working out. You have. You have areas of your life that you get advice from, and you have experts to help you. And now in the world of technology, you're able to, in a great way, you know, have an app on your phone that is guiding you. Just as Winston and I, we sat down two nights ago and did our August budget on everydollar. So I'm like. To have something assist you in it is such a gift, you guys. So the EveryDollar budget, it's that if you go to EveryDollar.com and create your first budget for free and start actually doing this, that's a gift in of itself of having a tool come alongside you as well.

Dave Ramsey (82:02)

Yeah. But then you have to do it. You have to stick to what you wrote down. And if you wrote down something that's different than the way you used to live and it says, okay, we're not gonna spend anything on restaurants this month, and we've been living at restaurants prior. That's a big change.

Rachel Cruz (82:17)

That's right.

Caller (82:18)

Yep.

Dave Ramsey (82:19)

And you know, It'll be about 30 minutes before that little devil on your shoulder says chick fil A. The devil would not say chick fil A. That's Jesus. Chicken. But he might say. He might say Chipotle. I say Chipotle. Yeah. I don't know. What would the devil say? But anyway, you see what I'm saying, There's gonna be some kind of little thing reminding you.

Rachel Cruz (82:36)

Taco Bell.

Dave Ramsey (82:38)

Oh, that's definitely the devil. No question. That's the devil. Yeah. Okay. So. Oh, my gosh. So anyway, whatever it is, you go, okay. What's the temptation? You know, you used to watch those cartoons when you're a little kid with Fred Flintstone, and he would have a little. Little devil on one shoulder, a little angel on the other shoulder. Right. Whispering, and what's the temptation? Somebody's going to try to drag you back to your land of stupid that you're trying to leave, even though you have a roadmap with your every dollar budget on how to leave the land of stupid. Drive on, boy. Drive on. Get through, get through, get through, Push through, Get through. The old country song. If you're going through hell, keep going, you know, Keep going. There's nothing on the other side. Deloney talks about that. If you're going through a hard time, the fastest way through a hard time is straight into it. Yep. Not trying to back up, not trying to run around it, not trying to avoid it. Run right straight through it. And that's true of change. That's trained. True of transformation. And that's why we teach you that, snowball, because you get out of debt fast. We want you to lean in with intensity. And. And this is why the everydollar system works. So I guess. I guess that's what that was. I don't know. It is a bit of a mystery to me.

Rachel Cruz (83:51)

I was waiting for something so profound. I'm just kidding.

Dave Ramsey (83:53)

Yeah, really. It's a bit of a mystery to me that the things I've said like 80,000 times occasionally go viral and other times they're just flat.

Rachel Cruz (84:00)

And it could be the 35 credit.

Dave Ramsey (84:01)

Cards that might have been intense. It was a good opener. Good teaser. Yeah. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys. Dave Ramsey here. Winning at money is 80% behavior and 20% head knowledge. What to do isn't the problem. Doing it is. In her brand new book, what no one tells you about Money, Jade Warshaw dives deep into the reasons you've been stuck. This book exposes the real emotional fight with money and shows you how to win that battle. Pre order now for $24.99 and you'll get over $100 of free bonus items. Get your copy today at ramseysolutions.com store. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today and my daughter. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Brittany's in Los Angeles. Hi Brittany, how are you?

Caller (85:23)

Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. I am in a bit of a pickle right now. I bought a house a year ago and I am in it a bit of a financial rut. So I'm wondering if I should sell my house or if I should put it up for rental.

Rachel Cruz (85:44)

Is this your primary home, Brittany?

Caller (85:47)

Yes. No. It's kind of complex. I did buy it as a primary. However, I did have the intent to also, well then live in it. But also I was going to Airbnb it because I do work in la, but I don't live there. My house is in the mountains. It's a cabin in the mountains. So when I decided to buy a home, I asked my mother to help me and she has a cabin up here. I should preference this by saying I also do have another cabin, but I own that one with my dad and he pays 100% for that one. I haven't had to put a dime into it upon getting it in post. It's been about two years, so I was able to qualify for one of my own. Because of that, I had the intent of getting the house as an Airbnb whenever I'm not here, my mom's Airbnb was doing phenomenal, but I came in at the absolute worst time. When the market started dropping was earlier this year, pretty much right after election and I had gotten my permit in about February.

Dave Ramsey (86:59)

So I think I heard you say in the last few minutes, I wish I hadn't done this. Did I hear you say yes? Did I hear you say that? Okay, so what's, what's the cabin worth? What's the cabin worth?

Caller (87:14)

So. So the cabin is worth 360. It's what I bought it for.

Dave Ramsey (87:19)

Good. And what do you owe against it?

Caller (87:22)

I owe about 350.

Dave Ramsey (87:27)

So you put almost nothing down?

Caller (87:30)

I did put money down, but the interest is so bad that when I put it down, it was like 353 at the time.

Dave Ramsey (87:42)

Yeah, but you didn't put much down.

Caller (87:45)

No.

Dave Ramsey (87:45)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So you don't have a lot of equity, so I'm not even sure you can. If you sell it, you might not even break even. Agree. Agreed.

Caller (87:54)

That's agreed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Ramsey (87:57)

Have you thought about putting it up for sale?

Caller (88:01)

I have. I have a, A Realtor actually going to come over tomorrow morning because I put a lot of work into the home. So when it got appraised, one of the things that was noted was the fact that it hadn't been touched. The house was built in, like, 1978. Most of the cabins up here are very old.

Dave Ramsey (88:19)

So if you've done all this work to it, why has it not gone up in value?

Caller (88:22)

You. Well, I, I, I'm gonna get the comps tomorrow.

Dave Ramsey (88:27)

Oh, so you don't know what it's worth right now? Okay.

Caller (88:29)

I, I don't know. I'm just going based off of what Zillow is saying, like, the market.

Dave Ramsey (88:33)

Zillow is not. Don't. Don't use Zillow as truth. Okay, that's gross.

Rachel Cruz (88:38)

Hopefully. Hopefully it'll be more. Hopefully.

Dave Ramsey (88:40)

Let's pretend it's 400. Yeah, let's pretend it's 400. And you. And you can sell it. And you sell it, and your problems go away.

Caller (88:49)

Mm.

Dave Ramsey (88:49)

Is there something wrong with this plan?

Caller (88:52)

Nothing's wrong with this plan. The only thing is. So that's why I'm, I'm debating. I just don't know, because I'm seeing. I follow houses on here on Zillow, like, religiously.

Dave Ramsey (89:04)

Yeah, you need to. This is not a good addiction.

Caller (89:09)

It probably isn't. I like to see what houses are actually selling for versus what they're being, you know? You know, you can list it for whatever you want to list it for, but right now it's, like, not a buyer's market. So I'm very, I'm kind of stressed about that. I'm like, well, could I actually. Really?

Dave Ramsey (89:27)

But you're kind of stressed about keeping it, too.

Caller (89:31)

That true?

Dave Ramsey (89:31)

Yeah. So, listen, I think you need to really carefully define that, what you did with this purchase, the way you did this purchase the purpose you did this purchase for? As a group, those set of ideas were bad. They did not bring you a good result because you're stressed, you're behind on your bills, life's not good. Nothing turned out like it did in your little dream when you were surfing Zillow. Right. And so now you need to reset and go. If I'm going to do real estate, it has to be different than the way I did this. This sucks.

Caller (90:12)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (90:12)

Yeah. Sell it.

Caller (90:14)

Yeah, okay.

Dave Ramsey (90:16)

Sell it. I want you to have your life back. I like you.

Caller (90:21)

Thank you. I want my life back, too. I. I do a lot in my life and have a lot of hobbies, and obviously everything has been be put on hold because I'm barely keeping up.

Rachel Cruz (90:35)

Yes. Dr. John DeLoney always says, solve for peace. What creates peace in my life? This is not bringing you peace. This is bringing you stress and harm and lack of sleep because you're stressed about all of it. Right. So. So just. Why. Why would you. I'm just curious from you, I. That there's a little bit of the hesitation. Why. Why are you hesitant?

Dave Ramsey (90:54)

She hasn't given up on the Airbnb Zillow surfing dream.

Caller (90:58)

No, actually. Actually, I. I don't care for Airbnb. And I. And I did say that after I got into it, I was like, it's something about. And it's because most people. Airbnb, obviously, the home is a secondary home for me. I am here whenever it's not booked because, like I said, I own a cabin with my dad four minutes away, so I don't have personals here. It's kind of all over the place. My personals is at my mom's house. I have a bag here of things that I need.

Dave Ramsey (91:25)

And that doesn't answer Rachel's question. What's your hesitation?

Caller (91:29)

Yeah, my hesitation is that I. I bought the house, and I felt very proud of myself as a young girl. Buying a house in California is really hard. And so I'm. Because I'm like, am I going to be able to do this again? I went through, like, leaps and bounds to get it the first time, and it was really hard.

Dave Ramsey (91:49)

Yeah, you took a lot of jumps and did a lot of dances and ran around the barn three times and clicked your heels and finally got the house, and it ended up not being anything like you thought it was going to be. You forced a situation. I am proud of you for getting something done. But I was your age when I went broke because I did it wrong. You don't have to go completely broke. Thank God you can just dump this thing and learn your lesson and go the way I did this. The set of assumptions I used to make this decision were wrong. And Brittany, everybody makes mistakes.

Rachel Cruz (92:24)

And yes, buying a home is a great thing and we want that. I think that's a smart decision in life, but that's not who you are, right? I feel like you're tying your identity to this decision that you've made. And for some reason, if you go back on that, it's like you're a failure or something. Like you, who you are, your net worth is not your self worth. This is. It's not. It doesn't equal who Britney is. And so separating those things out and saying, this is who I am with a house or not, with a nice car or not with a second home or not, like you are who you are. And then all of these other things are additions in your life. We want to make sure the things that are additional in your life are. Are blessing you and are good for you and not taking away. So this is. This may feel like a step back for you, but it's not. I think it's a learning idea. And you will buy a house again. I really do believe that, Brittany, you will. But you just have to be smart about it. And just to be able to have the humility to say, yeah, this was not a smart decision right now, but it's not who you are. You're not a failure. Right? And so you gotta separate those two things. They feel very intertwined to me as you're spending, speaking.

Caller (93:46)

Listen up, guys, because I've got a.

Dave Ramsey (93:48)

Big question for you.

Caller (93:49)

Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off, worse, or exactly the same?

Rachel Cruz (93:57)

Believe it or not, you get to choose.

Dave Ramsey (93:59)

Look, I know there's a lot going.

Caller (94:01)

On that can make you feel powerless.

Dave Ramsey (94:03)

Over your money, but I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around. So let me help you out. Start your year off with me and.

Rachel Cruz (94:13)

Dave Ramsey at our free EveryDollar live stream event on January 8th.

Dave Ramsey (94:17)

We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck.

Rachel Cruz (94:21)

Duck so you have the clarity you.

Dave Ramsey (94:23)

Need to finally get ahead.

Rachel Cruz (94:24)

And you could even win $2,000 just for signing up. Listen, another year is gonna pass anyway.

Dave Ramsey (94:31)

So decide that this is the year you're gonna take back control of your.

Rachel Cruz (94:35)

Life and your money.

Dave Ramsey (94:36)

Go sign up for the free live stream@everydollar.com live stream. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality is my co host, number one best selling author and my daughter. If you like what you're hearing here, we could use your help. You are our marketing plan. Spread the word on this show. Share the show. Click the share button. You can subscribe and you can follow and you can leave nice 5 star reviews and you can click the clip of the link out and make a copy of it and send it to your friend by email and go listen to this. This stuff's helping me with my life because that's what we're here for and we need your help. We need to have more people that we're helping. That's what we're doing. And thank you for those of you that have been doing that because our numbers are ridiculously up and we don't even have a stadium named after us like Sofi or something like that. It is. You know, I don't. Sorry the allergies are bad but the. Yeah. That you're our marketing plan. We're not dropping 300 million on a stadium. You're it. So thank you. We're either helping you or we're not. And that's what we're here for. Thank you very much. Courtney is in Dallas. Hi Courtney, how are you?

Caller (96:02)

I'm doing good. How are you guys?

Dave Ramsey (96:04)

Better than we deserve. What's up in your work?

Caller (96:08)

Nothing much. I was wondering if you guys could tell me what the benefit is of not using an escrow account to pay for home insurance and taxes.

Dave Ramsey (96:20)

Two things. One, you get to keep the money all year and earn interest on it instead of it sitting in an account that's not interest bearing until you pay your taxes and pay your insurance so it accrues interest. The second one is you don't screw up the account. And mortgage companies notoriously screw up the accounting on escrow accounts and they get out of balance and there's an escrow shortage and then they raise your payment to make up the shortage or they just miscalculate something and you got somebody that's the lowest common denominator running the calculation too many times. And when I used to own a bunch of property with debt back in the day, I would say as many as 40% of the accounts were screwed up. So I don't know if it's still that bad because I haven't had a mortgage in 30 plus years. But, but, but I suspect it is still a problem. The benefit of using the escrow account is it's on autopilot. You don't have to think about it.

Caller (97:15)

Right. Okay.

Dave Ramsey (97:16)

And most people don't manage their money well enough. They end up not having the money to pay their taxes or not having the money to pay their insurance. It sneaks up on them like Christmas.

Caller (97:26)

Yeah. And I know that some mortgage companies don't even give you the option. Sometimes they require you to use an escrow account.

Dave Ramsey (97:32)

Correct. A typical conforming mortgage, meaning a Fannie Mae, FHA or VA will require it because they want to make sure that the house they have a lien against doesn't burn or isn't taken for taxes.

Caller (97:47)

Right. Okay.

Dave Ramsey (97:49)

And so, yeah, you don't really have a choice. I personally, if I were you, I would just use the escrow account, but I would stay on them to make sure it's the proper amount.

Caller (97:59)

Okay. How do you recommend staying on top of them?

Dave Ramsey (98:02)

Well, you just want to make sure that the amount being taken out of your payment for print, your payment is principal interest. If it has escrow, it's taxes and insurance. P I T I and you want to make sure the amount being held out for taxes and insurance each month is 112 of the total of your taxes and insurance. It shouldn't be less than that because you're going to come up short and then they're going to have a shortage because they're going to pay it either way. They don't want to get, they don't want you to be behind. And then. Or there could be an overage. Let's say they're taking out more than they need to. And so just make sure that the numbers are right and just look at it once a year and make sure they're not, you know, if your taxes and your insurance actually go up, up, and they don't change the amount being withheld for it, you're going to get behind. Right, right. That's. That's one of the ways you'd look at it. So that's the kind of thing you're doing. So I, I would use the escrow if I were in that situation. I don't recommend because I put everything on autopilot that I can just so.

Rachel Cruz (99:04)

You don't have to.

Dave Ramsey (99:04)

Yeah. So everyone. Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (99:06)

Even though it's not earning interest, it's.

Dave Ramsey (99:08)

Not enough interest to matter.

Rachel Cruz (99:09)

It's okay.

Caller (99:10)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (99:11)

Yeah. And more people are going to screw it up by not saving up the money than the mortgage company is going to screw up the escrow account. Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (99:19)

It's probably true.

Dave Ramsey (99:20)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (99:21)

And we, and we have a part of our Website that talks all about this and all real estate@ramseysolutions.com realestate that's kind of our real estate home base because we just. It's one topic when it comes to your money that we get so many questions. So if you guys need more resources, there's free stuff, videos and articles and calls from the show. There's so much there to help you in this, in this topic of your money when it comes to your home.

Dave Ramsey (99:44)

Yeah. Ramseysolutions.com realestate Honestly, it's the, that portion of our site is massive because we so get, we get so much question on real estate. And it's really, it's really a nice resource to help you.

Rachel Cruz (99:57)

Yeah, for sure.

Dave Ramsey (99:58)

So good stuff.

Rachel Cruz (99:59)

Good, Good question, Courtney.

Dave Ramsey (100:00)

Yes, excellent. Excellent question. Jerry is with us in Norfolk, Virginia. Hi, Jerry. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi.

Caller (100:09)

Thank you. So my question, I have a bunch of accounts. I have a Charles Schwab brokerage account. I have Charles Schwab IRA Traditional, and a Charles Schwab Roth. Now I also, well, I also have a principal now principals. The company my employer handles are 401. So I was looking at their website and it looks like they charged me about a hundred bucks a month to have that account. The option. Yeah, Yeah, I thought that was kind of high.

Dave Ramsey (100:47)

That's wrong.

Caller (100:50)

Well, that's what it says under fees.

Dave Ramsey (100:55)

You have a 401k and they're charging with your company.

Caller (101:01)

Correct. I'm a hospital employee.

Dave Ramsey (101:03)

And There is a 403B or 401K.

Caller (101:06)

401K.

Dave Ramsey (101:08)

And they're charging you $100 a month. Twelve hundred dollars a year, actually $300.

Caller (101:15)

A quarter, if you want to be specific. But yes, basically it says it right here. Plan Administrative Services, 288.70.

Dave Ramsey (101:26)

Is that being deducted from your account or is your employer paying that?

Caller (101:31)

I don't know. I'm just looking at the website where it says plan fees. So I'm assuming I'm paying it. It.

Dave Ramsey (101:37)

I'm not. Because you shouldn't be.

Caller (101:39)

Okay, well, that's a plus.

Dave Ramsey (101:42)

It would be very unusual. As a matter of fact, your employer shouldn't be paying that much per employee. That's asinine amount of money.

Caller (101:50)

Yeah, I kind of thought so.

Dave Ramsey (101:52)

Yeah. I don't pay anywhere near that. I got 1200 employees with a 401k plan here. No, even. Not even close to that. I would fire those people in a heartbeat if they were charging me that.

Caller (102:04)

Okay, well, how do I find out if I'm Paying that.

Dave Ramsey (102:06)

Then call hr.

Caller (102:07)

On the website it says plan fees.

Dave Ramsey (102:10)

Yeah, well, I mean it can be a plan fee, but the plan wasn't instituted by you. It was instituted by the employer. So it's possible they're being charged. That. That's just ludicrous. I would call HR and I would call principal both and ask them, okay, just call, call principal and go, hey, I got a 401k and I'm looking at the statement here. And this feels like, you know, like you guys should be wearing a mask like you're robbers.

Rachel Cruz (102:34)

Oh my gosh.

Dave Ramsey (102:35)

No, really, that's just ridiculous.

Rachel Cruz (102:38)

What was your. What was your question though, Jerry? Your original question you called in.

Caller (102:41)

So my question was now I now have the option of instead of the money going to principal to take care of it, I can have it go to Charles Schwab, which then I would have 100. Yes. Yeah, they. I don't know if that's new or not, but I was actually talking to them and they said if you want we can have it go to Charles. Charles Schwab account. So I'm assuming it's some kind of lockdown type account. But then I would have total control to buy, sell or do whatever I want with it. But that kind of scares me because at least with principle I have to theoretically an expert looking after it versus me, the amateur looking after it. So my basically looking for your advice. Is the 1200 that I thought I was paying worth an expert looking at it?

Dave Ramsey (103:39)

No. But you can get another expert. You don't have to do this other thing. Okay, I'm seriously confused. I have no idea what the flip your company is doing. Because a 401 a company has a single 401k administrator. If principal is their administrator, they cannot send your 401k money to Schwab. It's illegal. They can't do it. You have a single. You can't have four different 401k companies at your company. There's no such thing. It doesn't work. Okay. So I am absolutely have no idea what you're up against. The only thing I can do is tell you to call one of our SmartVestor pros and see if they can unravel this for you. Just go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor. By the way, they can help you if you're going to be doing side investing. This is the Ramsey show. The all new everydollar is here and now. It's way more than just a world class budgeting App ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress on the Ramsey plan with your money. The average person finds thousands, literally thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes of starting up. Start every $$ for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, Jeremy and Deborah are with us on the debt free stage. What's up?

Caller (105:19)

Hey, Rachel.

Dave Ramsey (105:20)

Welcome, welcome. Where do y' all live? Charlotte, North Carolina, just over the hill. Welcome, man, welcome. Good to have y'. All. And if you're on the debt free stage, it can only mean one thing. You're debt free. And how much have you paid off? $85,614. Very cool. And how long did this take? 62 months. Good for you and your range of income during that five years. 72 to 82,000. Cool. What do y' all do for a living? We own a small business in Charlotte doing custom window treatments. Oh, very cool. Good for you. What kind of Debt was this? $86,000. It was our house day.

Rachel Cruz (106:00)

All the way.

Dave Ramsey (106:02)

Who has an 86. $6,000 mortgage?

Rachel Cruz (106:05)

Right?

Dave Ramsey (106:05)

What was left? Yeah, we had what was left on our mortgage. We had a little bit of a backstory with our. With ours.

Caller (106:11)

We actually got out of debt, consumer debt, about 10 years ago.

Dave Ramsey (106:14)

Following your principles. And then we went through a stage.

Caller (106:18)

Of infertility and ended up getting pregnant.

Dave Ramsey (106:22)

With our first daughter.

Caller (106:22)

Yay.

Dave Ramsey (106:23)

That we. We unfortunately lost her 24 weeks. But we knew that we needed to.

Caller (106:29)

Stack money for her. We knew she was going to have needs.

Dave Ramsey (106:32)

So we put the house, you know, we paid the payments, but we put some extra on the side. Yeah.

Caller (106:37)

And in 2020, we were able to bring our first daughter home.

Dave Ramsey (106:42)

Oh, my gosh.

Caller (106:43)

And then in 21, we were able.

Dave Ramsey (106:44)

To bring our son homely. Yes. Oh, it's much better than paying off a mortgage.

Caller (106:50)

Yes, it was.

Dave Ramsey (106:51)

And over that time, we knew that.

Caller (106:54)

We wanted to put them in really.

Rachel Cruz (106:56)

Good, great school, take care of them like we were going to take care of their sister.

Caller (107:00)

And we kind of had that money sitting to the side and we had that left on our mortgage. And we thought, you know what?

Dave Ramsey (107:06)

Let's just do it.

Caller (107:07)

Let's be weird people.

Dave Ramsey (107:10)

Just pay it off. And we'll use the fact we don't have a mortgage to take care of the kiddos.

Rachel Cruz (107:14)

Exactly. Yes. It has blessed us.

Dave Ramsey (107:17)

They're able to go to a private Christian school and, you know, little things.

Caller (107:21)

Like that that we wouldn't have been able to do.

Dave Ramsey (107:23)

Do. We're not done this huge blessing in Our life. What's the house worth? About 350,000. Way to go.

Rachel Cruz (107:29)

Very job, you guys.

Dave Ramsey (107:31)

You been stacking cash for this? Have you been investing as well?

Caller (107:33)

We have.

Dave Ramsey (107:34)

And how much in your retirement nest egg? Probably about 200,000. All right, so over a half million dollar net worth already. Way to go, y'. All. And no stinking payments in the world.

Rachel Cruz (107:43)

None is done.

Dave Ramsey (107:44)

How's that feel?

Caller (107:44)

Amazing.

Dave Ramsey (107:47)

Just happen. Shut up.

Rachel Cruz (107:48)

Feels amazing to me. Sink in.

Caller (107:50)

It's got to sink in.

Dave Ramsey (107:50)

Yes. Made the last payment and had some major house problems, so we had to deal with that. Of course, we're able to write a check for it. And so, yeah, it's not really fully sank in yet, but the next few months.

Caller (108:01)

Yeah, it's been a blessing to be.

Dave Ramsey (108:03)

Able to do that and not go back into debt, you know, to be able to take care of the house needs.

Rachel Cruz (108:06)

Yes, for sure. You know, because a lot of people are. Call our show with that situation. They have the 85 in investments or something non retirement, and they're like, oh, but I'm making a good, good spread on, you know. Yeah, we're making good money. Would you say it's a hundred percent worth it to just know that there is no mortgage?

Dave Ramsey (108:23)

At least 100. At least. Not more. Yes. Not more. Yeah. We spoke with you and John last year at the Money Marriage and had some. Some advice for us for the situation where we were in. And yes, it helped us, guide us to where we needed to do. And one day we're just like, no more. Right. Check.

Rachel Cruz (108:39)

Just do it.

Dave Ramsey (108:40)

Build that account back up. Love it. Yep. Yeah. Boom.

Rachel Cruz (108:43)

So great, you guys. Well done.

Dave Ramsey (108:45)

Thank you.

Rachel Cruz (108:46)

It's good to see y' all again. I'm glad you're back.

Dave Ramsey (108:47)

We're so excited to be back. So fun. Welcome back on the Ramsey campus. Yeah. Thank you. Good to have y'.

Caller (108:52)

All.

Dave Ramsey (108:52)

So now with all this you've been through, you pay off the consumer debt, you stack cash, you fight the whole infertility battle, which is an emotional roller coaster. And the. And then you turn around, look up and go, stack of cash, mortgage gone. Yep. And so, like three different major parts to this story, almost timeline wise. What's your advice to people on what's the. You know, when you. When we always ask people, you know, what do you tell people about what you do to get out of debt? What was the key thing that enabled you to go through all three of those phases?

Caller (109:27)

I would say, yeah, we.

Dave Ramsey (109:30)

You have to have a team.

Caller (109:31)

You have to be a team.

Dave Ramsey (109:32)

You have to be on the same.

Caller (109:33)

Page, because it could have easily tore us apart. You know, what we walked through infertility wise and then losing our daughter, that was very rough.

Dave Ramsey (109:41)

But it almost fueled a piece of.

Caller (109:43)

Me that it didn't fuel in him.

Dave Ramsey (109:45)

And I was able to say, you know what?

Caller (109:46)

Let's double down.

Dave Ramsey (109:47)

Let's do this for our future, for our future children. And we're able to do that now.

Caller (109:52)

And the feeling of knowing that we've.

Dave Ramsey (109:55)

Changed our trajectory for our kids in their lives, you can't put money on that. Yeah, you change your family tree.

Caller (110:01)

Exactly.

Dave Ramsey (110:01)

We say it all the time, but it really does mean something. Yes, it does.

Rachel Cruz (110:05)

Where you guys came from, how you grew up, do you look and think like that? Was that where you're standing today? Did that feel impossible?

Dave Ramsey (110:11)

1,000%.

Rachel Cruz (110:12)

For me, yeah.

Dave Ramsey (110:13)

I had. I had great role models as a kid. My dad was probably a Ramsey fan, but he didn't know it until. Until. Until I met you. And then, you know, then he. He was all on board because he's like, that's how he lived his life. And I. I tried, you know, but then get married, make stupid decisions and pay lots of stupid tax on a lot of stuff, you know, and then just, you know, being able to turn that corner and. And know about the, you know, future that we want to have and the possibilities and, you know, are endless. What's the dumbest thing you ever did with money? Oh, boy. Much time we got, I just. Pick one, the best one, probably vehicles. Yeah. Okay. Buying vehicles that we had. No.

Caller (110:52)

Yeah, I bought a 2016 fully loaded.

Dave Ramsey (110:56)

Off the showroom floor.

Caller (110:58)

Maximo with 20 inch rims on it.

Dave Ramsey (110:59)

No more money. And I had no money to my name. Yeah. And now you bought that in 2016? Yeah, yeah, in 2016. Yeah. That wasn't. Now, you didn't buy that the other day.

Rachel Cruz (111:07)

Yeah, no, no, no.

Dave Ramsey (111:08)

Yeah, that's. That's it. You know, since this whole journey, we've. We've financed, you know, three pregnancies, you know, cash flow.

Caller (111:15)

Cash flow, not finance.

Dave Ramsey (111:17)

Yeah. Multiple vehicles in cash. You know, it's just, you know, a whole reverse trend.

Rachel Cruz (111:22)

Yeah, absolutely.

Dave Ramsey (111:24)

Never, never go back. Well, I just want. I wasn't doing that to make fun of you. I just want to remind people that you can do dumb things and not be dumb. Absolutely. I have done some incredibly stupid things, and I'm not stupid, but I have done some stupid butt stuff in my life. And so I look back on them. Like, you. You're. Man, that's Dumb. But yeah, but then you go, but I don't have to live that way. I can change. Right. Just the peace, the peace that you get to, you know, have foundation issues at your house that you, you know, oh, it's just an inconvenience. Like you say it turns it from an emergency fund. You know, it's just, you know, be able to pay for our kids school and you know, it not be a question, you know.

Rachel Cruz (112:03)

How old are the kids now?

Caller (112:04)

Five and three.

Rachel Cruz (112:05)

Five and three. So great. Were they kind of part of it? Was the five year old like funny.

Caller (112:10)

Enough, she's, she's, she's learning.

Rachel Cruz (112:12)

We have a school store at school.

Caller (112:13)

So she's learning about the privilege of earning and being able to buy what she wants.

Dave Ramsey (112:18)

And we have the, the, the kids.

Rachel Cruz (112:21)

The financial piece. Yeah, we have for her. So we're working through that with her.

Caller (112:25)

Sometimes, you know, at five it goes.

Rachel Cruz (112:27)

In one ear another 100%. Well, I was to say cuz some kids, you know, people that are working the plan now that are listening. Yes. They have kids in the home and they're kind of, you know, part of that journey. Yours are obviously. Yeah, they're younger but, but to think that they'll never know. They'll never know. Parents with stress around money and hopefully.

Dave Ramsey (112:42)

They'Ll project them to live the same.

Rachel Cruz (112:44)

Way I want them to live the same way. 100%. That's you guys.

Caller (112:48)

Thank you so much.

Dave Ramsey (112:49)

So good.

Rachel Cruz (112:49)

So proud of y' all cheerleaders.

Dave Ramsey (112:51)

Who was cheering you on? We did. We got family. This friend here we met at the money marriage retreat last year, became friends and they, they said they drive up to meet us whenever we did it. Obviously we've had family, some here, some not here anymore. Yeah, wonderful. Well, congratulations. We're very proud of you. Jeremy and Deborah, Charlotte, North Carolina. $86,000 paid off house and everything. Yes, they are official weirdos. They did this in 62 months, making 72 to 82. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

Caller (113:28)

Three, two, one.

Dave Ramsey (113:30)

We're debt free. You know, I. You watch their body language, you guys. If you're not watching this on video, you watch their body language, Rachel. And the way they're interacting. The unity is apparent just in their presence. So strong that they were knitted together by the tragedies and by the victories. And by the victories and. Pretty cool. Pretty cool stuff.

Caller (114:16)

Sam.

Dave Ramsey (114:57)

Our scripture today, Psalm 145, 16 and 17. You open your hand, you satisfy the desire of every living thing. The Lord is Righteous in all his ways and kind in his works. J.K. rowling says, if you want to see the true measure of a man, watch how he treats his inferiors, not his equals. Melody is with us in Seattle. Hi, Melody. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Caller (115:25)

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

Dave Ramsey (115:28)

Sure. What's up?

Caller (115:30)

So I just have a question about how to talk to my husband about credit cards, because I've been listening to the show since June and I'm convinced I'm ready to cut up our cards. But he's. He's not convinced yet, so I'm just wondering how I can talk to him about this without being too pushy.

Rachel Cruz (115:56)

Yeah. What's his main. What's his main pushback? When you mentioned it.

Caller (116:02)

He likes the rewards. That's his main thing.

Rachel Cruz (116:06)

Yeah.

Caller (116:06)

And I'll. I'll let their level the. The credit score, but he's mostly into.

Rachel Cruz (116:10)

The rewards, for sure. And why do you want to live without them?

Caller (116:19)

I. I can kind of tell the difference when I, When I purchase things with the credit card versus my debit card. Like, you know, when I, When I buy something with a debit card, I like, have a mental thought like, this is coming directly from our bank account, and I can feel the difference in how much I buy, I think, because of that, for sure.

Rachel Cruz (116:42)

Do you guys have. Do you guys have a lot of debt? Do you have credit card debt or do you pay it off every month?

Caller (116:48)

No, he's very detail oriented. He pays off credit cards consistently every month. Month. And we. We're not in any debt. So.

Rachel Cruz (116:57)

Yeah. Yeah. So for me, this comes down then, to a values conversation. And I would be curious, Melody, for you, is it, you know, is there more in it for you than just, oh, yeah, I feel different when I spend with a debit card versus a credit card, or is there an idea of autonomy, not being more in control because you're spending your money? Right. It's. It's getting to that deeper why for you? And that's what I would. That's what I would lead with. And, and what makes you uncomfortable about it, what you don't like about it and just having that conversation. Because, I mean, yeah, I think that the truth is, sure, people pay it off every month, you know, that, that, that is a. That's a reality. But I think when you actually taste this world of, oh, gosh, I don't owe anyone anything, and I actually use my money in the present, and I'm not waiting for a bill at the end of the month. Right. Like, it's just there's a shift there. There's a piece there that I have in me that is so much greater than trying to chase after these rewards that end up not really being a ton, to be honest. You know, and so I would also. That's the leading conversation I would have.

Dave Ramsey (118:12)

I would also just pan back. I didn't get rid of my credit cards because I hated credit cards. I got rid of my credit cards because I hate debt. And so I would pan back and say, let's have a discussion not about credit cards, but about debt.

Caller (118:30)

Right?

Dave Ramsey (118:30)

We don't do, we don't go into debt. Okay, if we don't go into debt, why do we need a credit score? Because the credit score has one purpose and there's only one way to maintain it it and that is to run debt. The algorithm that develops a credit score. Fair. Isaac put this together as an organization and the credit score is 100% of the algorithm has to do with your interfacing with debt. If you do not borrow money, your credit score will disappear. And if you're not going to borrow money, that's not a big deal. That's, you know, that's panning back from the credit card and then that kind of does. Then, then I don't need a credit card to maintain my credit score. Because my credit score is not an indication that you're doing good with money. It's an indication you've been playing kissy face with the bank a lot. And then, you know, the points are laughable because one, there's, you know, Discover card gives 1% back. Well, let's run the numbers on that. If I run $100,000 through my Discover card, I get $1,000. On what planet is that a method to become wealthy? That math is absurd. It's like saying I'm gonna go to Chuck E. Cheese and run up all the tickets I can run up to buy those, you know, 10 cent, 5 cent things. And it's cost me $86 to get that 10 cent thing with those tickets at Chuck E. Cheese. That's what your points are. It's exactly how it works. And so, and you know, we've done detailed studies of millionaires. We've never met one that said, you know, I became a millionaire because of my points.

Caller (120:32)

Right?

Dave Ramsey (120:33)

So it's trading dollars for pennies and somehow feeling like I collected something, like I like I beat them at their game. And so both of his objections are inaccurate when you get into the reality of them.

Rachel Cruz (120:50)

And I would be curious Melody too Just to do an experiment and just say, hey, for five months, months, can we just use a debit card? And at the end, like, let's talk through what that is. Because, because there is a truth that when you live in debt and even if you pay off and pay it every single month and it doesn't feel like a big deal, the moment you step out of that cycle, something does psychologically change.

Dave Ramsey (121:14)

Now you should be less.

Rachel Cruz (121:15)

Yeah, we had friends and, you know, they had car loans and, and they could eat, they made great monies, they easily could afford it. What they, you know, this like crazy stretch. But then they decided, yeah, the next car we'll just pay in cash. And we talked and they ended up, we talked to dinner and, and he was like, that's amazing. Like, I, I didn't realize what big of a deal it was to just own my car. And I don't, I don't know why we didn't do this in the first place. So, like, again, even if you can, quote, unquote, afford the bill at the end of the month.

Dave Ramsey (121:43)

Yeah, Rachel's right.

Rachel Cruz (121:44)

When you get out of that, if.

Dave Ramsey (121:45)

You cut up your credit cards and do away with them as a test and go six months, months, if you don't like it, they'll give them back to you. Yeah, you can get more credit cards. You'll get 17 during that six months. Right. I mean, it's like in the mail, unsolicited. And so, yeah, it's not like they're gonna go away or something, so. But I think it's a bigger question, is my point, than just a credit card. I think the bigger question is what is our goal here? And my, my take on it, and it's made a lot of people wealthy. Following that take, is that your number one wealth building tool is your income. Don't give your income to someone in the form of debt payments and expect to become wealthy. And you all aren't using debt. And yet he's tinkering around and playing footsie with it as if he's somehow beating them at their game. And it just doesn't work out in the end. So, so, and MIT has done studies, others have done studies that when you spend cash, you spend 12 to 15% less than when you spend plastic. And I'm waiting for the research to come out. I guess we're going to have to go do it on the swiping your phone.

Rachel Cruz (122:59)

Well, when you say cash, you mean debit card?

Dave Ramsey (123:01)

No, I mean cash. Debit card is a little less than A credit card, Not a lot, but it's a little less. You spend a little less, but it's not 12 to 15. I'm talking about actual Benjamin's. Yeah, because when you put, when you lay Uncle Benjamin Franklin on the table, you have an ouchy moment. It's like, oh crap. That's like money and stuff. You pay cash for your groceries. You'll get so pissed off about inflation, you can't see. I mean really, if you people had to pay your taxes in cash on Friday, there would be a revolution because you would see how much money you're giving the government. It would freak you out if you had to walk to the tax collector like in biblical days, you would hate Matthew.

Rachel Cruz (123:48)

Oh my gosh.

Dave Ramsey (123:49)

You know, I mean really, if you paid it out. That's the power of the emotion of this. And it's called friction in the marketing world. And so if you're on Amazon, you just hit click, click, click, click, click, click. Crap starts landing on your phone.

Rachel Cruz (124:02)

I think there is something to say though that when it's coming out of your account right then. Yeah, you feel, you do feel that.

Dave Ramsey (124:07)

You feel it more. You do feel it.

Rachel Cruz (124:09)

I'll just pay it later.

Dave Ramsey (124:10)

There's more friction. But I mean if you're just swiping that Apple pay phone, man, these people, I just walk and they walk past and they walk past and hit it. It's gone, man. I'm out of here. Like they don't even know they bought something. It didn't even hit their memory burn. Oh my gosh. Wow.

Rachel Cruz (124:25)

Convenient.

Dave Ramsey (124:27)

I'm such a boomer. Wow. Oh well, I'm good with that though. I don't like my other options.

Rachel Cruz (124:32)

You don't use Apple Pay, I'm going.

Dave Ramsey (124:34)

You're right, I don't. I promise you I don't. I'm old school. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.