Your Mindset Matters More Than Your Money

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Your Mindset Matters More Than Your Money"

Release Date: January 1, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Your Mindset Matters More Than Your Money," host Dave Ramsey and co-host George Camel delve into the intricate relationship between financial decisions and the underlying mindset that drives them. Throughout the show, listeners present real-life financial dilemmas, and the Ramsey team provides actionable advice grounded in their proven financial principles. This summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

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1. Paying Off the Mortgage Early for Retirees

Caller: Dave Ramsey
Location: Minneapolis
Issue: Whether to pay off a mortgage early during retirement.

Discussion: Dave Ramsey seeks advice on paying off a $170,000 mortgage on a $450,000 home after retirement. Despite having a net worth of approximately $1.25 million, he grapples with differing opinions from financial advisors on whether to prioritize mortgage repayment or other investments.

Advice from George Camel: George strongly advocates for paying off the mortgage immediately, emphasizing peace of mind over marginal investment gains.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (03:10): "I'd write a check today. I'd be debt free. I'd have been debt free yesterday if I were you and quit listening to all these idiots."
• George Camel (04:53): "None of them leveraged their personal residence to build their wealth. None of them."

Conclusion: Eliminating the mortgage debt is paramount for financial freedom and peace of mind, aligning with Ramsey’s core principle of avoiding unnecessary debt.

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2. Saving for a Wedding vs. Investing Inheritance

Caller: Anna
Location: Grand Rapids
Issue: Allocating a $1.1 million inheritance between investing and saving for a wedding.

Discussion: Having recently paid off student loans and established a $15,000 emergency fund, Anna seeks guidance on whether to invest her remaining inheritance or save for an upcoming wedding.

Advice from George Camel and Paul:

• Prioritize the Wedding: Save specifically for the wedding to avoid going into debt if expenses exceed projections.
• Detailed Budgeting: Treat the wedding as a project with a clear budget, allocating funds to specific categories like photography, attire, and reception.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (06:22): "Lay it out. Okay, this is how much we're gonna spend on the photographer. This is how much we get on the dress."
• George Camel (07:26): "Don't balance debt and investing. Get the debt cleared and then go whole hog on the investing."

Conclusion: Establishing clear financial priorities ensures that significant life events, such as weddings, are celebrated without jeopardizing long-term financial stability.

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3. Investing a $1.1 Million Inheritance Wisely

Caller: Maggie
Location: Canada
Issue: Liquidating an investment portfolio to invest in cryptocurrency.

Discussion: Maggie, a 72-year-old retiree, considers liquidating her existing investments to venture into the highly volatile cryptocurrency market, citing significant portfolio losses.

Advice from George Camel and Paul:

• Avoid Crypto: Warn against the extreme risks associated with cryptocurrency, especially given Maggie’s age and financial standing.
• Stick to Proven Investments: Encourage maintaining investments in stable, growth-oriented mutual funds rather than speculative assets like crypto.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (34:00): "Crypto is extremely volatile, extremely risky. At least 100 times more risky than your current retirement portfolio."
• Paul (34:44): "Warren Buffett said… be greedy when others are cautious, and cautious when others are greedy."

Conclusion: Maintaining a conservative investment strategy is crucial for retirees, prioritizing stability and long-term growth over high-risk ventures.

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4. Balancing Saving and Paying Off Student Loans

Caller: Jessica
Location: Michigan
Issue: Gaining momentum to save for an emergency fund while managing $17,000 in student debt.

Discussion: Jessica, a 37-year-old single mother, struggles to build her emergency fund due to the need to validate her purchases and manage student loan debt.

Advice from George Camel and Paul:

• Mindset Shift: Adopt a disciplined approach to spending by associating financial decisions with her children's well-being.
• Practical Steps: Implement strategies like leaving the store without purchases to reinforce saving habits.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (38:34): "I looked at my kids, they were babies and we were broke because of my stupidity. And I said, I'm not doing this anymore."
• George Camel (39:21): "What does a 40-year-old Jessica want to look back on and say, man, I'm so glad Jessica made those decisions."

Conclusion: Building financial momentum requires a combination of disciplined spending, emotional motivation, and practical saving strategies to ensure long-term financial health.

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5. Assisting a Pregnant Daughter Financially

Caller: Joe
Location: Not Specified
Issue: Providing financial support to a 19-year-old daughter during pregnancy and initial motherhood.

Discussion: A grandfather seeks advice on how much financial support to provide his daughter during her unplanned pregnancy and inability to work.

Advice from George Camel and Paul:

• Provide Support with Boundaries: Offer immediate financial assistance without enabling long-term dependency, ensuring sustainability.
• Focus on Her Recovery: Prioritize her emotional and physical well-being while guiding her back to financial responsibility.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (25:07): "This is not a financial lesson. This is loving my daughter through a very, very tough time."
• Paul (27:18): "We know what, we can google the workout. We hire the personal trainer because we need that level of hand-holding right now."

Conclusion: Balancing compassionate support with financial boundaries fosters both emotional well-being and long-term financial independence for family members.

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6. Handling Unauthorized Mortgage Responsibility

Caller: Joe
Location: New York City
Issue: Parents took out loans for home remodeling and are holding him responsible.

Discussion: At 31, Joe living with his parents is being asked to shoulder responsibility for their home remodeling loans, which he perceives as unfair.

Advice from George Camel and Paul:

• Encourage Independence: Stress the importance of moving out and becoming financially independent to alleviate strained family relationships.
• Reject Unwarranted Financial Burdens: Clearly establish that he is not responsible for his parents' financial obligations.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (62:04): "You shouldn't be there. It's not good for you."
• George Camel (63:28): "This is the name of the Ramsey Show. Mortgage rates have dropped. So if you're thinking about buying a home in the next year, contact your local Churchill mortgage team right now."

Conclusion: Promoting financial independence and setting clear boundaries is essential for maintaining healthy family dynamics and personal financial well-being.

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7. Investing for Children’s Future

Caller: Danny
Location: Boca Raton
Issue: Saving for his children's future while following baby steps.

Discussion: Danny, with a low debt profile and a modest emergency fund, seeks advice on allocating funds for his young children’s future.

Advice from George Camel and Paul:

• Follow Baby Steps: Complete emergency fund, invest for retirement, and then save for children's education.
• Avoid Complex Products: Advise against Indexed Universal Life (IUL) insurance policies in favor of term life insurance and straightforward investment vehicles like 529 plans.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (72:14): "Start using debit cards so you don't accidentally slip into debt… finish the emergency fund… begin investing 15% of your income."
• George Camel (74:25): "IULs are awful. It's the world's worst place to do investing."

Conclusion: Adhering to a structured financial plan with clear priorities ensures secure and sustainable growth for children’s educational funds without falling prey to convoluted financial products.

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8. Legally Reporting Cash Income

Caller: Chad
Location: South Carolina
Issue: Morally and legally handling unreported cash income from a lawn care business.

Discussion: Chad, who has been paying taxes on non-cash income but has left cash payments unreported, seeks advice on rectifying this.

Advice from George Camel and Paul:

• Report All Income: Emphasize that all income, regardless of its form, is taxable and should be reported to maintain financial integrity.
• Maintain Integrity: Highlight the importance of honesty and integrity in financial dealings, aligning with Ramsey’s principles.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (51:53): "Income in America, regardless of how it's received, is taxed. That's the law."
• George Camel (54:21): "Fanatical integrity means… everybody does it, but everybody's broke and everybody doesn't have a good life."

Conclusion: Upholding financial integrity by reporting all income is crucial for legal compliance and personal ethical standards, fostering long-term financial health.

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9. Purchasing Property Offered Directly by Homeowner

Caller: Tom
Location: Chicago
Issue: Considering purchasing a townhome directly from the homeowner without listing.

Discussion: Tom weighs the benefits of buying a property directly from a homeowner versus going through a realtor, unsure about the best approach.

Advice from George Camel and Paul:

• Use a Realtor: Encourage utilizing a real estate agent to navigate the complexities of purchasing property, ensuring fair pricing and proper legal procedures.
• Evaluate Financial Viability: Assess whether purchasing directly offers any financial advantage over a traditional listing.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (67:44): "He doesn’t make 1600 a month, he loses money. Okay, well…you need to sit down with him and say, honey, we've got to look at this as a business."
• Paul (70:48): "They might negotiate and save you 30 grand to where it was. All right. It was worth it."

Conclusion: Leveraging professional real estate services ensures informed decision-making and maximizes financial benefits when purchasing property.

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10. Promoting Financial Integrity and Responsible Investing

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey and his team emphasize the importance of financial integrity, responsible investing, and adhering to a structured financial plan. They caution against high-risk investments like cryptocurrency and complex financial products such as IULs, advocating instead for proven strategies like mutual funds, term life insurance, and disciplined saving.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (56:30): "Fanatical levels of integrity… this reinforced to me that when I don't pay my taxes, it has nothing to do with whether the taxes are just or not. It has to do with I'm not doing the right thing."
• George Camel (80:13): "Indexed universal policy… it's the world's worst place to do investing."

Conclusion: Maintaining unwavering financial integrity and adhering to time-tested investment strategies are paramount for building lasting wealth and achieving financial peace of mind.

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Final Thoughts

In "Your Mindset Matters More Than Your Money," Dave Ramsey and George Camel underscore the pivotal role of mindset in shaping financial success. By addressing diverse financial challenges—from debt management and investment strategies to fostering responsible financial behaviors—the Ramsey Show empowers listeners to make informed, ethical, and effective financial decisions. This episode serves as a testament to the belief that a strong, principled mindset is the cornerstone of financial well-being.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

SA.

[George Camel]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, co host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, is my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. That's Triple 882-55-225. Paul is with us in Minneapolis. Hey, Paul, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, Dave, thanks for taking the call. I have another should we pay off the house early out of our retirement question.

[George Camel]

Okay, why is this one different?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, my wife and I are Both retired. I'm 61, she's 58. We retired with the mortgage. And I've got a number of differing opinions from our financial guy. I've got friends that work in the finance industry. I worked for a bank in 30 years and I guess just looking for another opinion. Maybe one with a little bit more credence than some of the others, I guess.

[George Camel]

Okay. So how much do you own your home?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a $450,000 house. We owe 170.

[George Camel]

And how much do you have in your nest e?

[Dave Ramsey]

We are debt. What's that?

[George Camel]

How much? What's your net worth? What do you have in your nest egg?

[Dave Ramsey]

Net worth is about a million and a quarter. We've got just over a million. That is investment in retirement.

[George Camel]

If your house was paid off, if your house was paid off, why would you go borrow on it?

[Dave Ramsey]

We would not.

[George Camel]

Then what's the difference?

[Dave Ramsey]

I guess it's just. Okay, let me rephrase the question. Maybe a better question is if we decide to do this, is it a process over multiple years to ease a tax burden? Do we just bite the bullet and take the hit and do it once or how would I do it?

[George Camel]

I've been doing this 30 years. I've never had anybody call me back and say they were pissed off because they paid off their house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fair enough. So one shot or would you?

[George Camel]

I'd write a check today. I'd be debt free. I'd have been debt free yesterday if I were you and quit listening to all these idiots. There's a lot of idiots out there running around with an opinion about your money and you're a millionaire.

[Paul]

What's your mortgage payment? What's your mortgage payment right now?

[Dave Ramsey]

Mortgage payment is selected 1200.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Paul]

You'd free up most of that, which then now you can invest. So, yes, you'll lose some out of that investment account, but you're going to still invest for the next 20 years.

[George Camel]

Dude, you're just going to sleep so much better.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, we're both retired, so invest is rolling. Not necessarily.

[George Camel]

You have almost zero risk in this situation because you could write a check at any minute and pay it off if you got in a pinch. You don't really need the money in one way or the other. It's all about, you know, what is your end goal when you're 85, do you want to have a mortgage? You know, why would you keep it? There's no reason to keep it. You wouldn't go borrow on a paid for house in order to have more money to invest. And so write a check and sleep better tomorrow, tonight, pay it off tonight, hit the submit button. And then when you go and you get the mortgage release in the mail, make a copy of it, take your shoes off, walk into the backyard, have a mortgage burning party and tell me that didn't feel good. I mean, there's just no downside to this, you know, you're a millionaire, you're gonna be okay either way if you don't follow our advice, if you follow those idiots advice. But if I've got a financial person that's telling me to stay in debt, I'm getting a new financial person, period. Because, George, we studied 10,167 millionaires. The number of them that told us that they became wealthy because they borrowed on their home in order to invest was precisely none of them leveraged their personal residence to build their wealth. None of them. And so the idea that I continue to leverage my personal residence in the name of building wealth is asinine. Based on the millionaire data.

[Paul]

Well, we're seeing so much more of this because people have their record low mortgage rates they don't want to let go of. Dave, why would I pay off my mortgage?

[George Camel]

But I got your mortgage rate. B. You know what my mortgage rate is? Zero. I don't have one. Hello.

[Paul]

Heck of a rate.

[George Camel]

0. I got the best rate. Come on, man.

[Paul]

So when rates go up and down, you don't have to worry about them because you don't need debt anymore. It's a great feeling instead of worrying about what the market's doing. So, yes, it hurts to write that check and lose that much money. Lose, quote unquote. But you never really had it if you owed it to the lender in the first place.

[George Camel]

Paul. Pay it off, son. Pay it off. There's a bunch of intangibles that you're not even considering in this decision. You're still acting like it's primitive Math. Or at least the idiots advising you are. So you're gonna sleep different. Your wife's gonna look at you like a hero. Never. Never once have we had a wife, said, you know, my husband borrowed deeply on our mortgage, and he's my hero. Never came up.

[Paul]

I love the Kermit vibes she had, too.

[George Camel]

There. That's great.

[Paul]

Miss Piggy meets Kermit.

[George Camel]

Yeah, well, it's the best I can do. I'm a hero. It's the best I can do. Anna is with us. Is it Anna or Anna? It's Anna, I'm sure. And she's in Grand Rapids. Is it Anna? Is that right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, it's Anna.

[George Camel]

Hey, how can I help?

[Dave Ramsey]

So I recently paid off all of my student loans and in debt. Free.

[Paul]

Yay.

[George Camel]

Way to go. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I couldn't have done it without you, so. But I have my three, six months of expenses. I just finished that up, and I'm wondering now if I should be investing my 15 or if I should be saving for a wedding that my boyfriend and I are planning to have in about a year and a half. So I'm wondering if. Okay, perfect.

[Paul]

Are you guys paying for this on your own?

[Dave Ramsey]

We think so. We don't really want, like, that's. We just want to plan for that, and then if something comes, then we'll go for it. But, yeah, we kind of just want to plan on doing it ourselves, just in case.

[Paul]

Okay. I would set a very specific goal, a number you're trying to hit to save, and I would try to hit that before the year and a half is over and then begin investing. You got that money set aside. You know, you're not going to have to go into debt for this wedding. That is the goal here. And so that's why we're telling you save for the wedding first. Because what happens is you start investing 15%. The wedding was over budget. Now we got to put it on a credit card.

[Dave Ramsey]

For sure. Yeah.

[George Camel]

So what do you think you're going to spend?

[Dave Ramsey]

We're thinking maybe between. I would say probably. We were thinking between 20 and 30, depending on what rates are, but probably 25 is the goal we set.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, if you. Yes, that. That. By the way, that's about an average wedding in America right now. So you're not above average. You're not below average. You're right around. There's 28,000 last year. So the. The thing is, having three grown kids that all got married, and I was involved in the budget because I was paying for it, or at least part of it anyway, on all of it. But anyway, my part, the bride's part, and then my son. We participated. Some have a detailed budget, not a general goal. Lay it out. Okay, this is how much we're gonna spend on the photographer. This is how much we get on the dress. This is how much we spend on the reception. And treat it. I'm sorry, but treat it like a project. You're managing a project. You are. So you have a timeline, you have a budget, and you, you know, you stick to it. What must be true. Well, we can't have that. We got to have this instead. If you don't have a very specific thing, then you'll line item. You'll get into a mess there. But that sounds reasonable, I would say, for the wedding first. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely prevent. Preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. Air people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle next week. Yeah. In the middle of all that grief. Like, it's just.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is.

[George Camel]

It's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud. And you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thank you for joining us. Open PH at Triple 8-825-5225. Will is in Atlanta. I will. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How are you, Dave?

[George Camel]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Dave Ramsey]

About two months ago, my grandmother passed away and I received about a $1.1 million, inheritance.

[George Camel]

Wow. Sorry for your loss and thrilled for your blessing. What a wonderful. What a wonderful thing she did. That's amazing. You're the only grandkid.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm one of two grandkids.

[George Camel]

Each of you got 1.1.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Way to go, Granny. Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

But my question today was how, how do I make. I'm 23 years old. I was, I was just calling to find out how do I make the absolute most of this.

[George Camel]

So this is a little bit intimidating to you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Good, good. That's a good sign. That means you're wise. If you were having a woo hoo, I hit the lottery moment, it would mean you're a child. And so I'm glad you're a little bit in. That's a great.

[Paul]

It should take your breath away a little bit.

[George Camel]

This kind of fear is the beginning of wisdom. So way to go. It's a good fear. I don't want you to be panicked or anxiety ridden or anything like that. But. But I do want you to be aware. I just got behind the wheel of a car that is way more powerful than anything I've ever driven and I need some driving lessons. That's what you're aware of. Good for you. So proud of you. Good, good, good, good, good. Okay, first thing is keep that mindset. Second thing is never put money in something you don't understand. No matter who says to, including me, anywhere you read or hear to put money in something and you can't tell somebody else how it works in detail, do not put money in it. Okay. Which means you might be going a little bit slow at first because this money might just be sitting in a bank account. Because that's what you grasp right now. Okay? The third thing is the Bible says in the multitude of counsel there is safety money people, too many of them have a little bit of arrogance in them and they want to tell you what to do. If you have a money person, a financial advisor, an insurance person, a real estate person, an estate planner, that is telling you what to do instead of teaching, you fire them and get another one. You want someone with the heart of a teacher because it is not their job to manage the money, it's yours. Your grandmother didn't leave it to them, she left it to you. So it is your job to sit with a mutual fund broker with an advisor and learn and learn, and learn and learn and learn. And you're doing that today. You called us Because I want to learn what to do. Right. That's very good. But always look for Someone with the heart of a teacher. You cannot offload the nervousness of this responsibility by letting someone else make your decisions. Okay, that makes sense. Yes. If you have to understand it and you have to have people helping you that have the heart of a teacher, that helps you understand it. Those two things work together. And then you're going to move slow. You just move at the speed of your comfort, at the speed of peace. When in doubt, don't. Easy enough, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

That is very easy.

[George Camel]

Yeah. In other words, when it. Your stomach's moving up towards your throat, you wonder if this would make your grandmother angry with you. Don't do it. Which is your fourth thing? Each time you make a decision with this money, ask yourself, would this cause her sitting in heaven to smile and be proud of her grandson? Okay. And if the answer is no, don't do it. Because this lady had some. This lady had some sense. She left 2 million bucks to her two grandkids. So I think we can use her as a filter for our decision making. Honoring her legacy, honoring her memory, causing her to smile in heaven as our filter. And that's gonna help you also. Does that make sense to you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, it does.

[George Camel]

Okay. So there's no magic formula on what to do with the money. I put mine in growth stock mutual funds, and I pay cash for real estate. And I live 100% debt free. And you probably already knew that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, I do.

[George Camel]

And George does the exact same thing.

[Paul]

Absolutely. And when you look at this money as a steward or a manager of it, it changes the filter. And an easy way to do this is filter it through the baby steps, number one, but also filter it through three buckets, Giving, saving, and spending. So you should give some of this and be generous, just like your grandma was. You should spend some of it and enjoy it, and you should invest. Probably the biggest portion of this for the future.

[George Camel]

What do you make?

[Dave Ramsey]

I currently make about 110,000 a year.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you don't need any of this.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And so here's an interesting thing. If you put it in something like a mutual fund, and it makes 10%, it'll double every seven years. So you said you're 23?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, 23 years old.

[George Camel]

So it'll be 2.2 at 30. At 37, it'll be 4.4. At 44, it'll be 8.8. It'll be 16 million when you're 50, if you just don't touch it and invest it. And it makes 10%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Mind blowing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't get it, like wired to my bank account. It just got transferred into one of the financial institutions that she was associated with. But currently it's split up. About 350,000 is in personal stock choices and CDs, and then 750,000 is in a managed stock account.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, I don't play single stocks, so I probably wouldn't do that because they're more risk. But I want you to get in there and start figuring it out. And again, there's nothing to panic about. But feeling the weight of this as a responsibility to manage is a proper philosophical, spiritual stance for you. If you do that, it'll cause your decision making to be different than just some little kid who got some money and blows it all by the time he's 26.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay. Because you're not. You're already more manly than that. I can tell.

[Paul]

Very wise.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I'm very well done.

[Paul]

So, I don't know if he said it, but no debt, emergency fund in place. That's a good spot to be investing and to buy a property with cash, a reasonable property. Enjoy some of it. And then the rest I'd be investing either in more real estate, if he's comfortable, or just putting it in some good mutual funds.

[George Camel]

Just take your time. Just take your time.

[Paul]

No rush.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Very, very calm. Well, good question, man. So put good people in your corner that have the heart of a teacher. They'll help you. If you want to know about the investing the way we do it and the way I personally do and get someone with the heart of a teacher, click smartvestoramselutions.com. you'll find a Smartvestor Pro or two or three in your area that are people that have the heart of a teacher and know the way Ramsey does it. And they can walk you through that and teach you what you're doing. And they're going to move you out of those single stocks. I can tell you that once you understand, you're going to move you out of those single stocks. Paul is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Paul. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi. Thanks for having me on. How are you?

[George Camel]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm trying to. I recently graduated from college. I've got about $20,000 in student loan debt and about 40,000 already invested in my retirement account, split between a Roth IRA and my company's 401k.

[George Camel]

What do you make?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm trying to balance. What's that?

[George Camel]

What do you make?

[Dave Ramsey]

I make about $60,000 a year.

[George Camel]

Okay. You're Trying to balance what?

[Dave Ramsey]

Trying to balance. Continuing to save for retirement and getting ahead that. I'm 24 years old and just making sure that I also pay off the student loans. So I have a got about $10,000 set aside as an emergency fund and I'm just trying to figure out what to do next, whether I should lump sum, pay down my student loans or just keep saving for retirement since the interest rates are a little bit lower than what you expect to get out of the stock market.

[Paul]

Well, Paul, I will talk to you like I as if I went back in time because I had more student loan debt than you and I made less than you. And so at 23, I was $40,000 in student loan debt. I wasn't making any progress. I was trying to play the same game. You are balancing this all. Here's what you got to do. Paradigm shift. Let's try a proven plan. That means we're going to take 9,000 from this emergency fund, pay down the debt. That's going to leave you with 11 left making 60. You're going to knock that out. Quick pause investing. You'll be back to investing probably in six months if you do it this way. Yeah, investing 15%.

[George Camel]

Don't balance debt and investing. Get the debt cleared and then go whole log on the investing. That's what George is saying. And he's right. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Paul]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's that time of year. It's starting to get a little bit colder. It's getting a little bit dark earlier. And sometimes if you're like me, you just want to stay inside and get cozy. And for me, my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets watching a movie, sitting by the fire, maybe even reading a book. Listen, whatever your perfect night in looks like, sometimes therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, finally, exhale, replenish your energy and begin to take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or or any other time of year. Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one of the reasons I recommend better help. Better help is 100% online therapy with licensed therapist. You can talk with your therapist just about anytime and just about anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist and you can switch therapists for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com Deloney to get 10 off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Deloney.

[George Camel]

Where did you find that? George Camel, Ramsey personality is my co host. That was direct to the booth dudes who picked out some strange bump music there. George.

[Paul]

That's a new one. I know them all.

[George Camel]

The price is right.

[Paul]

$1 Bob like a hip game show. I would love to see you when the Price is Right.

[George Camel]

Dave.

[Paul]

It's not too late.

[George Camel]

I don't know. Stuck on an elevator. I don't know what happened. All right. Up next is Jacqueline in San Antonio. Hey, Jacqueline, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi guys. I'm well, thank you.

[George Camel]

Better than we deserve. Good. How can we help? You didn't ask, but I answered anyway. What's up?

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I already knew the answer.

[George Camel]

I'm on autopilot. Jacqueline, how can we help?

[Dave Ramsey]

I have a beautiful, responsible, 19 year old daughter who lives with us and is about to make me a grandmother. I know, it's funny. I said responsible first, right?

[George Camel]

Except for that one time. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. My, my question. Well, financially responsible, hard working, excellent work ethic and morally sound. My question is how much should I be helping her throughout this pregnancy and throughout the first month? It was obviously unplanned and she's had a hard time with processing the whole thing and she is now unable to work. So I'm just kind of looking to you. It was sort of a light came on as I was driving listening to you and I thought I respected Dave's answers. So let's run it by him.

[George Camel]

Well, I appreciate that sometimes when I'm facing something like that that is a little bit ethically or morally or I don't even know, those aren't the right words. Relationally overwhelming. It helps me to say not what is the right answer today, but what do I do today that is the right answer for 10 years from now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Because we have a strong foundation with our kids of teaching them financial responsibility. You know, we go by yours for.

[George Camel]

Years and years and so what you've got is obviously a baby is an awesome, wonderful thing, particularly grandbabies. If I'd have known how great grandbabies were going to be, I'd have been nicer to their parents. So, you know, all of that part is wonderful. So this is a bad metaphor, but I would almost say what if she had a car wreck and couldn't work, she ran a red light, it was her fault and then she got hurt. Right. That's not a really Good metaphor. Because it's not as. Babies are much sweeter than that. Right. But I mean, that's kind of how I think I probably would look at it. I'm just thinking like a grandpa right now or like a dad.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's where my brain is stuck.

[George Camel]

This is not a 39 year old who's done heroin for 15 years and hates me. This is a 19 year old that messed up, made a mistake that otherwise has led a pretty good life, is what you're describing to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's correct. Yeah. When our kids graduate high school, thank.

[George Camel]

God God didn't throw all of us out in the ditch the first time we made a mistake. So I got lots of grace and mercy in this situation. If it's me, I'm just going to take care of her like she's 17.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And then. But. But all with the idea that we're going to lead towards a sustainable answer when she's 25. So what's sustainable for her when she's 25? Well, obviously, financial responsibility, career responsibility, mommy responsibility. Living on her own and sustaining and developing a life. Whether she does that as a single mom or later on gets married to someone. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you mind if I add one more thing in?

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

When they graduate high school, we have them pay us rent immediately. And the thing is, their grades stay up in college, when they graduate, they get all that money back. So it's basically savings. If they don't, we keep it. Yeah. She was able to in school pay US rent, $500 a month, and she also saved $6,000 working full time in six months. So she has $7,000 in her savings account. And really my question was, do I even let her touch that?

[George Camel]

No. Are you guys. Are you guys okay financially, you and your husband?

[Dave Ramsey]

We are. We're debt free. Besides our house.

[George Camel]

This is not a financial lesson. This is. I'm loving my daughter through a very, very tough time. She had a car wreck. You know, I'm.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's very validating.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's what I would do. And I'm pretty hardcore on tough love, as they call it, but this is not tough love. This is not a time for that for me. For me, this is a little scared pregnant girl and I'm gonna put my arms around her. I'm a lover. She's mine. And we're gonna get her through this. But not with the idea that she lives in your basement till she's 39. But the idea that she's gonna. Because you gave her some room here to Heal and to not heal, but to go through this process well and heal. It's been traumatic, I'm sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And so to go through and get back on her feet emotionally, relationally, make better choices going forward. This is not a pattern that represents her life. And so let's get back on that track that she was on. And then you got a 25 year old. That's an amazing human being, it's an amazing mom and everybody's happy and proud. Again, I'm not enabling into the distant future, but on the short term here I just completely take care of her as if she was an ICU or something. What do you think, George?

[Paul]

Yeah, I'm with that. And I'm also wondering, you said she's unable to work. Is that just a short term thing? What does that look like?

[Dave Ramsey]

It is. She developed a pregnancy disease around five to six weeks in her pregnancy before she could even process. And she became so sick that she was hospitalized. The good news is that it does go away the moment she delivers and she is managed now the hospitalization helps them to manage her sickness and so she is medicated and she's managed at this point and able to function. But it's very unpredictable. So she's not able to get another job.

[George Camel]

Yeah. This is a 19 year old and a baby. Take care, just take care of them. Yeah, that's what I would do.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what I'm going to do.

[George Camel]

Okay. You're a good mom. You got a good heart and you're not, you know, you, you've raised a. I know you're tough because you raised a kid that has work ethic. You raised a kid that's make. You're making her pay rent. You raised a kid that did this and that and this and that and you know, so you're not a pushover enabler mom. I don't think I didn't hear that.

[Paul]

Well, I think that's where it goes into the long term ramifications. If this is still a decade from now and we're still living like this in the basement, that's where we need to go. We need to have an exit strategy out of this too. Once she's healed up and on her feet.

[George Camel]

In my mind, this is the perpendicular opposite of someone who's 31 years old and does this and is belligerent and says if you don't help me, you'll never see your grandkid and all that kind of stuff. I have a completely different reaction to that person than I do this 19 year old kid. And if you're 19 and you don't like me calling you a kid, I got socks older than you. So just calm down. That's the deal. That just means I love you is all that means. It doesn't mean that I'm putting you down. But I got a little more rings around the tree.

[Paul]

That's a nice way.

[George Camel]

A little more age going here. So, you know, that's the thing. So you know what you're looking for in relational things, period, but certainly in financial relational things is you're looking for patterns, not singular events. And patterns cause you to endorse a situation or to avoid a situation. And that keeps you from becoming an enabler. If you're wondering out there and you're a mom and a dad. So if you've got a 37 year old that lives in your basement and will not work, that's a pattern. You need to kick said butt into the street. Because you're not a blessing to them, you are a curse to them. You are an enabler. You have stolen their dignity. The dignity of autonomy, the dignity of standing on your own. The dignity of hard work. The dignity of killing something and dragging it home. The only thing they know how to do is play Nintendo and it's your fault. You should be ashamed. That's a different pattern for moms and dads. And we got that out there because we got a group of males that aren't yet men that are stuck in their mommy's basement and mommy's still doing their dadgum laundry. And if you don't like that, that's okay. Get you a show. This is mine. So that's how this works. Wow.

[Paul]

Well, nothing will turn you into an adult like having a baby. So the maturity. We just hit the fast forward button right there.

[George Camel]

I'm just getting a puppy will do it. My gosh, a baby. That'll push it right there. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Paul]

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[George Camel]

Before investing, carefully consider a fund's investment objective, risk charges and expenses contained in the prospectus or summary Prospectus available at timothyplan.com Read carefully before investing. Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners Limited.

[Paul]

And ETFs distributed by Forsyth Fund Services LLC.

[George Camel]

George Camel Ramsey personality is my co host. Today Canada is on the line. Maggie is calling. Hi Maggie, how are you? Hi.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good Dave, how are you?

[George Camel]

Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, Dave, I'd like to liquidate my portfolio and be able to put it. I want to trade on with cryptocurrency currency and I just want your opinion.

[George Camel]

Do you listen to this show?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, I do.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Paul]

What are you currently invested in?

[Dave Ramsey]

I have an investment account. I have TSFA and I have a Riff account.

[Paul]

And what has caused you to go, hey, you know what? I'm going to trade all of that to go into crypto.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I'm losing in my portfolio drastically this year and I just know that I don't believe I'm going to come back like for a long time. Like maybe they say it'll come back, but I think it's not going to come back for 10 years. And I'm already 72. So I just feel like. And I've also have experienced like it's not like I haven't. I have been doing crypto trading now for, for a while.

[Paul]

Have you seen the crypto market? It's a lot darker than the stock market. You're trading a paper cut for a stab.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I've made money in the crypto market.

[Paul]

How much?

[Dave Ramsey]

Probably about $10,000.

[Paul]

Is that enough to retire on?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Paul]

What's in your investments currently.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I've also picked contracts that have been lower definitely because I haven't had money, that much money to do anything with.

[Paul]

At your age. I'm not going to go to Vegas and just put it all on black and hope for the best. That's not a great retirement plan. That worries me.

[George Camel]

Okay, let's back up. Let's back up a second. Okay. You are, you're scared because your good investments went down. And right about the time I get desperate and scared is the step before I get really stupid. Desperate people and highly greedy people make the worst financial mistakes. And your fear is making you do statistically or suggesting that you do statistically the equivalent of putting this money on a roulette Wheel or a hand of poker. Because crypto is extremely volatile, extremely risky. At least 100 times more risky than your current retirement portfolio. At least. And you're telling me, oh, I put money in the slot machine, and I came out with more money than I put in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I'm not doing it myself. I have a trader that's helping me. Like. Like. So I never close my market in a negative position. It's always in a positive position in crypto.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, Maggie, you do what you want. I'm 62.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

I. My net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars, and I have precisely zero in crypto.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Camel]

And I'm not desperate, and I'm not scared.

[Paul]

Warren Buffett said.

[George Camel]

And you have. You have a. You know, the idea that you have a trader doing it for you scares me for you even more because this is giving you false confidence. A, you've had some wins. B, you have someone whispering in your ear how wonderful they are and how they are going to take care of you, which is how people that are 72 years old lose everything they own. This is how it happens. Okay, please don't do this. But I don't think that the decision is really up in the air. I think you've already made your decision.

[Paul]

And if I told Maggie, hey, two years from now, your money's going to be back to where it was in your retirement account. I don't know that she would do it, but it's hard to see that far out ahead when you just see your accounts bleeding out. And so you just want to do anything to not be doing that.

[George Camel]

One of the wealthiest men in the world says, be greedy when others are cautious, and cautious when others are greedy. That's Warren Buffett. And he doesn't mean greedy like being a bad person, a lack of character, greedy. He means be aggressive when others are cautious and cautious when others are aggressive. And crypto is no place to play with money that you can't afford to lose, and you're gonna lose it. And then you're gonna call me back and say, well, I'm gonna have this guy who made me, you know, and he's singing a siren song, and I sure hope you don't do it, honey. I sure hope you don't do it.

[Paul]

It sounds like this trader is probably telling her, hey, I'm telling her he's a liquidate and give me all your money.

[George Camel]

This trader is definitely. He's talked her up big time. He's buttered her bread, and this guy's a freaking con. Artist. He's a crypto con man.

[Paul]

Well, we also have the quote from Warren Buffett saying he wouldn't pay $25 for all of the bitcoin in the world.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And I think he's got more money than me, you and your trader put together. So, you know, and I don't disagree with that at all. So it's just an extremely volatile market, and that's being kind. It's crazy. Crazy is what it is. But I don't have any money in it. And there's a reason crypto is way more down. Well, how much is it down, George? Do you know?

[Paul]

I mean, there was. It depends on what coin. And a lot of them went bankrupt. Fraud or scams? 97%.

[George Camel]

Oh, and by the way, too, mate, the number of people that have the number of dollars lost, not in bitcoin or not in crypto, but in fraud associated with crypto is what I mean, in the billions. Billions. It's two and a half billion dollars at this point have been lost to crypt. And let me tell you who the number one target of that type of fraud and con is. People over 65. People that are desperate and scared.

[Paul]

Empty promises.

[George Camel]

And so I'm not saying your trader is a con artist. I'm just saying there's a higher probability that he's a con artist than if he was in any other business because of the number of crypto con artists that are out there, people that are this. This thing is drawn the worst of the worst. And so you can do what you want to do, but you made the mistake of calling here and asking. And we will give you our opinion. And we are experts on our opinion. Jessica is in Michigan. Hi, Jessica. What's up?

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi, my name is Jessica and I am 37 years old, and I'm a single mom of two. And my question is, how do I get the momentum to. I'm on baby step number one. I am about 30 or, I'm sorry, $17,000 in debt between student loans. My car's completely paid off, but I'm just trying to get momentum into getting that cash saved up for baby step number one, because I always try to validate my purchases, and I'm just trying to find a way to get the momentum to stop validating these purchases. Right now I make about a little over 38 a year.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Paul]

What has caused you to want to do this plan in the first place?

[Dave Ramsey]

I have been listening to Dave Ramsey off and on for about. See, about 11 years, but I've really jumped into it more in the last couple of months wanting to say, wanting to change my family tree. I come from a family where we've all not been so great with money. And my dad actually died.

[George Camel]

I'll tell you how I did it, Jessica, as a fellow spender.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

I looked at my kids, they were babies and we were broke because of my stupidity. And I said, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And every time I got ready to spend, I would ask myself, if I had to not spend this money so that I had the money to save the life of my child, could I do it? Could I find the discipline? And that was an easy answer, of course. And so I did stuff like I would practice going to Costco and buying nothing and walking out. And that was like a breakthrough for me because I truly thought that if you went to Sam's or Costco that they check your receipt on the way out, that it was federal law that you had to spend $200 or you couldn't get out. They wouldn't let you out. That's why they check it. And I was that guy. And so I just had to, I kind of had to equate it with the life of my children, which is a bit melodramatic, but it's also kind of true. Because you want to change your family tree. You said, yeah.

[Paul]

What does 40 year old Jessica want to look back on and say, man, I'm so glad Jessica made those decisions. And if that means, you know, taking away your debit card information from every website that you have, hiding it, having accountability with a friend, do whatever it takes.

[George Camel]

I would think if you've got a spending problem, that Amazon prime is not even a possibility.

[Paul]

I'm cutting that out of my life.

[George Camel]

It's got, you got to turn it off if you got a spending problem. If you're trying to say, no, I'm not going to spend, because I mean, that's just so easy. It's easy for me, you know, and I teach this stuff for a living. So you just gotta, you gotta equate it with a big why. And you gotta be sick and tired of being sick and tired. And then gradually you'll reform your character. This is the Ramsey Show. Mortgage rates have dropped. So if you're thinking about buying a home in the next year, contact your local Churchill mortgage team right now. If you wait, more people will be in the market competing for the same homes and potentially driving up prices. Churchill will help you do the math to Be sure your budget is correct, making your home a blessing and helping you build lasting wealth. Learn [e-mail] Churchill Mortgage.com this is a.

[Paul]

Paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 370 27.

[George Camel]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. The phone number is, call-8825-5225. Melanie is with us in Philadelphia. Hi, Melanie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi. So excited to be here. Thank you for taking my call.

[George Camel]

We're honored. How can we help?

[Dave Ramsey]

First of all, let me just say, George, I'm reading your book. It's super awesome.

[Paul]

Oh, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, no problem. So my question is. So my husband and I are in baby step two. I'm working two full time jobs. He's a school teacher and also has a training, like a personal training gig on the side that he does. He rents his own facility, but he's had it for four years. And my concern is that he really hasn't made any profit off of the business. He makes just enough to just pay the bills in the business. At what point do I have that conversation that it may not be worth his time in the business just because it's just not bringing in enough revenue?

[George Camel]

Anything that doesn't make money is called a hobby.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Camel]

It's not a side hustle, it's a hobby.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm.

[George Camel]

He likes work, he likes personal training so much he's willing to do it for free almost.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, he makes some money, but not as much as I think he should because he's been doing it.

[George Camel]

You're changing your tune in the middle of the call. Which is it? How much does he really make net profit on the thing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Probably it varies every month. So we can run range anywhere from 1500 to like 2500amonth profit.

[Paul]

Oh, well, you said after he pays his bills, he's not making much, if anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's not.

[George Camel]

What bills? Has he got the rental on this place?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, just the rental on the place. And then, you know, he has like that his utilities are included with the rent in the facility. And then he has like, I know, his Internet or something that he pays.

[George Camel]

Okay. So he's getting 1500 to 2500 in. What's the rent?

[Dave Ramsey]

1600. So it almost takes everything so if.

[George Camel]

He doesn't make 1600 in a month, he loses money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, I don't think it's unreasonable to sit down tonight and say, honey, we've got to look at this as a business and we need to look and see what we've got to do with your pricing and the number of clients that you have to make what you're doing over there profitable. Because it's not okay that you're spending all this time over there and potentially even losing money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Camel]

So let's get out the numbers. Let's get out the numbers and run a P and L on this thing and just sit there tonight and run a spreadsheet on it. How long has he been doing it?

[Dave Ramsey]

He's had this place now for four years.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, let's go back for the last 12 months, pull the revenue, and then put in 1600amonth and then put in the Internet fee a month and. And let's see if we've really got a profit or not.

[Paul]

Figure out what is hourly wages on this and then go to another gym.

[George Camel]

You know, you made 500 bucks and you spent 600 hours over there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right?

[George Camel]

You're making a dollar hour. Come on, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

As a business owner, how do you, like, at what point do you say, like, it's just not viable anymore?

[George Camel]

I mean, how much? He's supposed to be like an adult and stuff. He teaches children.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, he does.

[George Camel]

What does he teach?

[Dave Ramsey]

Health and phys ed.

[George Camel]

Okay. And how, how, what, what age children?

[Dave Ramsey]

Anywhere from kindergarten to high school.

[George Camel]

Okay. And so we would assume that they know how to do basic addition of subtraction. Yes, and he should, if he's teaching them. I mean, really, you need to sit down with him and say, I need you to look at this through the eyes of a business and let's look at it for a few minutes and let's see if you think this is worthwhile. But you don't need to tell him. He ought to be able to. A logical adult male, female, should be able to come to a conclusion on this without his wife or husband telling them. I mean, you ought to be able to look at it and go, I'm making a dollar an hour. No, that doesn't cut it. You know, I'm supposed to be providing for my family during this time. No, no.

[Paul]

And you guys are in debt. And so I think that's a part of this equation is we need to actually make money right now.

[George Camel]

So here's the thing. Anytime we're in a business situation, with our entree leadership, clients on a side hustle or a small business idea, we do one of a couple things. One is we have to ask ourselves, what can we change to make this viable? And if the answer is there's not a change that'll make it viable, then it's time to shut it down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

I mean, I think you guys are going to look at this and figure out. I think you're going to look at this and figure out you put $18,000 or what is $19,000 in rent into it last year, you know, and he brought in 19,500 bucks. I think that's what you're going to find.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I think so too.

[George Camel]

And you know, so. And then how many hours you spend over there? Divide that into 500, and you look at him go, honey, what part of this is smart? None.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right?

[George Camel]

So, you know, so we. Something has to change. This is not okay. We have to raise our prices, increase the number of clients, both, or we got to say we're not doing this anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yep. I'm gonna have that conversation. I appreciate your. Your opinion.

[George Camel]

I guess the other thing is, you know, do you have a basement?

[Dave Ramsey]

We do.

[George Camel]

Why don't you do it down there?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

1600 bucks ahead per month, instantly.

[Paul]

Another thing people do now is they'll go to your house and do the work out there.

[George Camel]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Paul]

And the other thing they can. He can do is just go work at a gym that already has personal training, and they hire him and pay him money so he doesn't have any of the overhead.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Paul]

So there's a lot of options.

[George Camel]

Part of the equation on the business model may be getting rid of this rent, and suddenly. Yeah, you're. You're doing in home work and in your homework in other people's homes for them, you know, personal training. You go visit Jim, then you go visit George, and they do whatever.

[Paul]

I mean, that's the dream.

[George Camel]

And they pay you money, you know, and I have a gym in my house. We did that for a long time. And so my wife made fun of me. She said, you know, the guy's counting for you, and that's what you need. You can't count to 10.

[Paul]

You're paying that guy you needed in that moment.

[George Camel]

Paying that guy big money for counting. No, I'm paying him for accountability. There's that. But I can count to 10. I already can do one, two. I can count.

[Paul]

But you need a guy yelling at you other than the guy in your head.

[George Camel]

We don't need anybody yelling at me. But, but we need someone just. I know if he's going to come over there, then I'm going to do the workout. Right. Otherwise I might find my little butt on the sofa. You know, that could happen. And so that's, that's what, you know, that's what a personal trainer does sometimes.

[Paul]

We know what, we can google the workout. We hire the personal trainer because we need that level of hand holding right now.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I mean, that's okay. Yeah. So I mean, do it. He could, he could provide the service. Like George was saying, charge even more to come to people's homes in person and, or in your basement and, or if you're going to keep the location, you got to make the location. Having the location needs to cause you to make more money than not having the location would cause you to make. I think you're going to get rid of this location at a minimum. This is the Ramsey Show. People tell me about their experiences with big banks all the time. Bad service fees that nickel and dime them to death and predatory lending that tries to catch them in never ending cycles of debt. So if you're ready for a bank that puts people over profits, check out Fairwinds Credit Union. I recommend Fairwinds because they share our Ramsey values of helping people get out of debt and live generously. If you go to fairwinds.org Ramsey you'll see the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans. This account bundle is designed to help you take control of your finances and stay out of debt. And Fairwinds also has a great mobile app that's safe and secure so you can manage your transactions with peace of mind. Fairwinds has been helping people avoid big bank traps for 75 years. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. It's easy to join no matter where you live. That's F A I R W I n d s.org Ramsey are you determined.

[Paul]

To get out of debt and build wealth this new year? Then don't leave out an important step which is having the right insurance. Don't make the mistake of thinking you can get by with minimal coverage or no coverage at all. Because when Murphy comes knocking, and he will, you'll start backsliding further into debt if you don't have the money to pay for it and if you don't have the right insurance. So take our insurance coverage checkup. We make it easy with a free tool that helps you find out if you have all of your bases covered to check it out. Go to ramseysolutions.com checkup that's ramseysolutions.com checkup.

[George Camel]

George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Y Refi. If you're in over your head with private student loans and tired of getting calls from collection agencies, you may need why refi? Why refi Refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch. They give you a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to y refi.com Ramsey today. That's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Paul]

Today's question comes from Chad in South Carolina. He says, I work full time and I have a lawn care business on the side. Part of my business income was paid in cash and partly by payment apps like Venmo, etc. I've been paying taxes on everything except the cash. And I was wondering morally and legally how I should handle that income. Obviously, I already pay a lot of taxes and I'm trying to save money where I can. Should I feel bad about this? And if so, should I clear everything up with the IRS and pay back what's due to them?

[George Camel]

You can decide if you want to go back or not and deal with it and how far back you want to go. But income in America, regardless of how it's received, is taxed. That's the law. And so it is a moral and an ethical thing to pay taxes on money you receive as cash. Period. And I pay taxes. I mean, if we get paid in cash for something here, it all goes into the revenue and it all goes into the calculation and we pay taxes on it just like we do everything else. So mechanically, how you can do it is when you get paid in cash, just deposited into the business bank account and then it'll be reflected there as income. And that will help you do the totals and figure out what you're supposed to do with your quarterly estimates on your business. That's the mechanics of it. So Chad, one of the things I read several years ago that really leans into this George, as far as I'm concerned, is Tom Stanley, the great Tom Stanley, who did the original book, the Millionaire Next Door. He and I became friends before he passed away. His daughter Sarah, we interact with her now. She still does research on millionaires and billionaires and so forth. He did another book called the Millionaire Mindset later. There's two books by that name, but he did one by that name where he studied billionaires that wasn't millionaires, billionaires. And he studied people who had accumulated a billion dollars from nothing. And so these were very billion is 1000 million. And he went at this research a little bit different. He tried to find the correlating things in their life. You know, marriage, were they married one time, had they been married six times, what was their education, you know, what were the things in their life that led them to be in a position to do this. And he found 37 different items or things that he correlated, and the then he forced ranked them in how often they appeared. So number 37 appeared the least often among the billionaires, and number one appeared in every one of them. And number one that appeared in these people who became billionaires from nothing was that they had fanatical levels of integrity, character. Every time he interviewed a competitor, a friend, an employee, a former employee, his kids, his wife, when they spoke of this man, they always spoke of impeccable integrity. Not just honesty, but integrity is a wholeness to it. And he's the same on Sunday as he is on Monday. If he says, the sky's falling, Duck. I mean, this guy is impeccable, fanatical about his integrity. And that reinforced to me that when I don't pay my taxes, it has nothing to do with whether the taxes are just or not. It has to do with I'm not doing the right thing. It's my integrity. It doesn't reflect on them. Anybody who has walking around since pretty much agrees that the federal government and the IRS and the income tax system is a complete moronic train wreck. It's absolutely unfair and horrible. But that doesn't say anything about my integrity. My integrity is. I'm going to follow the law. Exactly. It's what they said to do. I'm not looking for a shortcut. And so we report every stinking dime that we take in at the Ramsey's because it makes a statement about me, not about them. And then I'm going to also make another statement about me. I'm going to spend a lot of money with attorneys and CPA firms to try to figure out what I legally don't have to pay. And I'm not paying a stinking dime more than I got to on the other side of that, because I hate them. But still, my dislike of the tax system is not going to be reflected, not going to change me as an. As a person of integrity, because I want to be on that list that Tom Stanley did. You know, I want to be in that. I want to be in that lineup with that hall of fame right there.

[Paul]

If you want to build sustainable wealth and have your integrity intact, pay your taxes, Chad.

[George Camel]

So that's it. It's that simple. And, you know, I'll go so far as this. Let me just. Let's just carry that on out a little bit. Fanatical integrity means, like, when you work for someone and they pay you to work there. When you're not working, you're stealing. When you're sitting on your Facebook account for three hours while you're being paid to do work that you're not doing, that's not integrity. That's stealing. It's not cute. Everybody does it, but everybody's broke and everybody doesn't have a good life and everybody struggles in their relationships and everybody can't deal with anything except their anxiety and their heart attacks and their obesity and everything else. So everybody. You don't want to be like, so here's what's weird. Even if it's not popular with your coworkers while you're at work, work all day, every day. Because that makes a statement about you, not about them. It's not about, well, my boss is toxic. Oh, kiss my butt. Because they wanted you to work, now you are. You have a toxic boss. It's a toxic work environment. They expect me to work and I can't live on Facebook. You're killing me here, dad. Come snowflakes. Work while you're at work. It's an integrity issue, you know, and so it carries. Get there five minutes early, get there five minutes late, leave five minutes late. Don't be the first one screeching tires out of the dad Gum parking lot every afternoon. You know, it's not that hard. That's a sign of integrity. It's inside of integrity. And I figured out being on time is integrity. I hate that one. Once I figured it out though, trains run on time around here. We put a little clock up on things. Staff meetings, got a little countdown clock. We started 8:30. We don't start 8:32. We start 8:30. You come wandering your little butt in six minutes late. It's, you know, well, there's traffic. Well, there's traffic every day. There's nothing new about that. Use traffic courses, traffic, you know, I had to get the kids ready for school every day.

[Paul]

You know, it's not a surprise.

[George Camel]

We do, you know, if I tell Sharon I'm gonna be home for dinner at 5:30, I come walking in at 5:37, she's like, it's getting cold.

[Paul]

Food's cold.

[George Camel]

Getting cold. You said 5:30, you know, and she's not a butt about it. I'm not a But to our team about this stuff, but these are things I had to start talking to myself about. And that type of character is the type of character that grows billionaires, Chad. And so pay your taxes, honey. Every dime of them.

[Paul]

Hope that was clear.

[George Camel]

It is true, though.

[Paul]

It's interesting how that carries through every part of your life. Your career, your marriage, your relationships, your finances. Being the person you said you were gonna be, the person of character.

[George Camel]

Do what I said I was gonna follow through, follow through, follow through. And you know, God, I can't stand being late because it says I didn't think they were important enough to get there on time. It's arrogance. Can't stand it. Stinking airlines. Unbelievable, man. What's Delta mean when you look it up in the Greek? We ain't gonna be there. That's what it means. This is the Ramsey Show. You've got a lot to keep organized in life. Kids and calendars and carpooling and cleaning. I mean, it is so that's why you need a Knockbox. That way if something happens to you, you leave your loved ones with happy memories and not a huge mess. Knockbox is a complete system to help you organize your accounts, personal history, estate planning documents, and all your other info in one place. I'm talking about everything from life insurance policies and social media accounts to your dog's vet, divided into 15 simple categories. Plus they've got checklists that tell you what to add to each folder so your family won't have guess where everything is. So start getting organized [e-mail] Ramsey. Your family will thank you. That's knockbox n okbox.com Ramsey Hey, George Camel here.

[Paul]

So you're thinking about buying or selling your home? It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com realestate that's ramseysolutions.com realestate.

[George Camel]

Thank you for joining us America. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Joe is a New York City. Hi, Joe. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi. My parents have recently taken out two loans to remodel their home in the amount of $55,000. And they're trying to tell me I'm responsible for it. And I want to know if I should agree to this or not.

[George Camel]

I'm sorry. Why would you be responsible for a loan on their house? I'm confused.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because after I left college, I moved back in with them and I've been with them for the past five years.

[George Camel]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

That'S how I see it as well.

[Paul]

Was there not room for you and they had to create an extra room for you and you requested this?

[Dave Ramsey]

It was my same room from high school. In fact, when they were looking to get the home redone, I told them no. I was part of the conversation with the contractors that came to look at the house.

[George Camel]

How old are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm 31.

[George Camel]

Why do you still live at home?

[Dave Ramsey]

I have a lot of student debt I'm working through right now.

[George Camel]

You need to move out.

[Dave Ramsey]

I agree with you.

[George Camel]

You should have moved out 10 years ago. What in the world? What in the world? I mean, I know you're not obligated, morally, legally, ethically, anything here. I have no idea where they got this. I don't, I don't understand the conversation even. But I also am not going to tell you to stay there one more minute. You shouldn't be there. It's not good for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I've been paying down my student loan so I can recap.

[George Camel]

It doesn't matter. It's not good for you.

[Paul]

Even if it slows down your debt payoff, this is stunting your growth and it's causing this relationship to be strained, which it may already be too strained to repair. I don't know.

[George Camel]

What do you do for a living?

[Dave Ramsey]

I work with the local department of social services.

[George Camel]

What do you make.

[Dave Ramsey]

60 grand a year.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you, your degree is in what?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's in environmental science.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what do you owe on this degree?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, when I last booked, 110.

[George Camel]

Okay. All right, well, it, it sounds like you probably are going to have to make some career choices as well. And you're probably going to pick up some part time income and be working like a maniac because you're not, you're not making progress. Okay? You're not, you need to be paying like 30,000 bucks, 40,000 bucks a year on the loan to make it go away in two or three years and. And you can't do that making 60, living in New York City. And so you probably need a different job and you need six other jobs in addition to that. And let's get your income up and get you out and get you into the world in a sustainable situation. So the odd thing is, is the reason you stayed there was to pay down your student loans and you haven't t. Time to go, bud. Time to go get you a better job, go get you lots of jobs and get you a different place to live and pay down the student loans for real this time. But. So that was mythology that you told. That was a lie you told yourself and you didn't mean to, but lots of people do this.

[Paul]

Five years with very little bills. You should have made some serious progress on the debt. And it sounds like it's just you get comfortable living at home, you sort of resort to your old childhood self and you don't make as much progress as you think.

[George Camel]

And you know, the frustration with the 31 year old still living in your basement could boil over into a misguided, toxic claim that you owe us money for us taking out debt. You know, like the parents have kind of lost their minds a little bit and this is their resentment, this is their toxic methodology to solve a failure to launch.

[Paul]

Well, we can get them to pay us.

[George Camel]

This is our way of kicking you out because we don't know how to do it and we're all really frustrated. So that's probably where some of this is coming from. But to answer your question, no, you do not owe the money. Yes, you should be gone by the end of the month, at the end of next month for sure. And you may need a new job by that time too. And you may need a new state to live in by that time too. You need to live in an affordable area, make a pile of money and clean up the mess. Because while you were living a place with no rent, you made no progress or no sustainable progress, no measurable progress. Tom is in Chicago. Hey Tom, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave and George, it is an honor to speak with you both.

[George Camel]

You too. What's up?

[Dave Ramsey]

I been renting a townhome for many, many years and the homeowners, through their property manager have informed me that they now want to sell and have asked me if I'd like to purchase it before they list it. I don't know how to handle it in that situation without it being listed. Of course, if it were just a house that I was looking after, going after a normal situation I'd get a realtor. Do I get a realtor in this situation? Since it's not being listed? I don't know if I'm allowed to do that.

[George Camel]

You're allowed to do anything. It's just a matter of who's going to pay for it and whether you actually need it or not. So you need a mortgage. Right. And you need someone to guide you through the contracting process and the mortgage process and the appraisal process and all of that. Are they giving you a price on the property?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, they give me a price of 330 based on some comps that the property manager pulled up, who is a realtor. I didn't like the cops. I didn't agree with those comps. They were an area not very close to me. And when I looked at them, the homes were much nicer than, than this, than this home. So I don't know how to, you know, combat that.

[George Camel]

So they have, they have a real estate agent. It's called a property manager. It's a licensed real estate agent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And they're probably going to list it.

[Dave Ramsey]

With this person eventually, but they're asking me before they list it.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but it doesn't. What's the benefit to you? There's no benefit to you. There's no bargain.

[Dave Ramsey]

I guess the. I guess the benefit is that no one else would be able to make an offer on it.

[George Camel]

Oh, yeah. Okay. I mean, if you had a transaction you were comfortable with and you can go through and get your mortgage and everything, you can go to a title company, get a contract drawn up and do this. I think this transaction is so far from happening that you probably do need a pro in your corner to help you navigate the negotiation and then help you navigate the closing, help you navigate the appraisal, help you navigate the getting of the mortgage and all the different things. All of things you don't know how to do. But if you had all those things already lined up, you could. You don't have to have a real estate agent, but you can. In this case, I think you benefit from one and just say, you know, they were. If they list it, typically what happens is the listing agent, in this case the property manager, they're going to put a 6% commission on it or something about like that. And then the agent that represents the buyer is going to split that with the selling agent. Typically that's a normal transaction. And so, you know, if you get a real estate agent to represent you and they work with the selling agent before it actually goes on the market. But a commission is still paid. It didn't cost you anything. It cost them something. And you know, let me tell you, if you just buy it right now, I think this agent is going to get both of the commissions. They're probably going to charge that seller a full commission. So, yes, the answer is I'd go get a real estate agent. Yes. In your situation, I would. Yes. I mean, it's kind of borderline, but I think there's, I think there's a lot of A, there's another real estate agent already involved. Okay. B, you don't like the comps, so you got some negotiating to do. C, you got to have somebody walk you through the closing process and the mortgage getting process and the appraisal process. So all of those things. Tell me, yeah, I put a real estate agent in your corner.

[Paul]

It's just worth it for the stress factor at this point.

[George Camel]

Well, and expertise to guide you through a journey that you've never been on.

[Paul]

They might negotiate and save you 30 grand to where it was. All right. It was worth it.

[George Camel]

Ramsey Solutions.com agent will help you find a Ramsey trusted agent in your area to help you do that. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. No matter what your goals are in 2025, our New Year's sale has tools and resources you need to get the year started strong with prices starting at just $9.99. Whether you want to make progress with your money, grow in your career or create a more peaceful life, you can achieve your goals. And these books and products can help shop the New Year's Sale [e-mail] store. That's ramseysolutions.com store. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Open phones at Triple H, 825-5225. Danny is with us. Danny is in Boca Raton. Hi, Ben. Danny, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm doing all right. How are you?

[George Camel]

Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help?

[Dave Ramsey]

So I have a three year old and a six week old. Me and my wife would like to put some money away for them. We were wondering what the best thing would be.

[George Camel]

Okay. Are you? Well, we teach folks a thing called a process for becoming wealthy and taking care of all the different components of our life called the baby steps. You may have heard of that, you may not, but the first thing you would do is not put money aside for your kid. The first thing you would do is to set money in an emergency fund of $1,000, a beginner emergency fund. The second thing is get out of debt? Everything but the house. How much debt do you guys have?

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty much none. We only have two credit cards, but there's no debt on them. We have about $3,000 in emergency funds.

[George Camel]

Okay. No car debt, no student loan debt?

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope.

[George Camel]

Good. What's your household income?

[Dave Ramsey]

Together is about 80, 85, 90.

[George Camel]

Cool. Well, once you've done baby step two, which is debt free but the house, all that means is you need to place some scissors across those credit cards and cut them up. Start using debit cards so you don't accidentally slip into debt, which people do all the time. Then we would go on to baby step three, which is finish the emergency fund. And you're short on that. You got a $3,000 now account and it needs to be three to six months of expenses. Once you have that, then you would begin investing in your retirement. 15% of your income going away for retirement. And once you got that started, then you start saving for the kids college, which is what you're calling about. But the best thing you can do to stabilize the family for the kids is to be out of debt and be building your investments. And then in addition to that, we can start saving for kids college. If you click on smartvestoramselutions.com you might find a smartvestor pro that you will find a smartvestor pro that we recommend. Sit down with one that you like, that has the heart of a teacher, and you'll want to learn about 529s and ESAs and putting money in mutual funds for your kids future. Is that what we're talking about here?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, sir.

[George Camel]

Okay. It says on my screen something about an iul.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we were looking into those because.

[George Camel]

You got a friend in the insurance business.

[Paul]

Yeah, yeah, guess what?

[George Camel]

Which by the way, he's gonna make.

[Paul]

Way more commission off of that.

[George Camel]

Yeah, so Iuls are awful. It's an indexed universal life. You never do investing inside of an insurance policy. It is the world's worst place to do investing. The only people in all of the financial world that recommend that you invest inside of a life insurance policy are insurance people. Nobody else does. Nobody else believes that crap. It's so outdated, so outmoded, covered in fees, horrible product. Don't do it. Was I unclear?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, sir.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Paul]

And by the way, your kids don't need life insurance. Life insurance is meant to replace your income in case something happens to you. So you, your wife, you both need a good term life policy, meaning it's not for your whole life. We're talking about a 15, 20 year level term life policy, 10 to 12 times your income. If you have those in place, you can rest easy at night.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And then if something happened, the two of you, your kids would be taken care of. Right, Right. And you get [e-mail] they'll shop a gazillion companies, get you the best deal. That's who you deal with.

[Paul]

And it's way more affordable than these IUL policies.

[George Camel]

It'll be 5%. $5. If your IUL is 100 bucks, this would be 5 bucks. Literally 5%. It's horrible, man. So just stay away from that. So, you know, walk your way up into investing in real investments and in the meantime, make sure you've got term life insurance in place and you've got the whole thing taken care of.

[Paul]

Dave, I'm seeing this all over social media. I don't know why, but the young people are gravitating towards these universal life policies and here's how it's marketed. They go, you know it, you're supposed to use your life insurance while you're alive. Did you know that? And everyone's like, oh my gosh, this is brilliant. This investing policy inside of my whole life, oh my gosh, this is amazing. I'm going to become a millionaire. And the commissions and fees these guys are making selling this crap is insane.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Paul]

And the amount of time you have to spend pulling that premium every single month in order to make any amount of money is absurd. I don't know how it's legal.

[George Camel]

The indexed universal policy is, it's a newer version of an old bad idea is what it amounts to. And so what you're going to find, if you take this product apart and look at the components of it, the insurance portion goes up every year. It's basically what we call an art, an annual renewable term term insurance. All life insurance gets more expensive every year that you're alive, period. Because you're statistically more likely to die every year you're alive. Right, Brilliant. So if you're 51, you're more likely to die statistically than if you're 50, period. Okay? End of story. Now why would you get, how do you get then a 15 or a 20 year level term insurance? Well, it is cheaper than the average of the 15 year of increases. The art would start out cheaper and it would end higher and the lines would cross right in the middle. Hypothetically, if it was exactly how you see what I'm saying? So the art would go, it'd go straight up and the 15 year would be level and it would cross right in the middle at seven and a half years. However, it doesn't do that because it is cheaper for an insurance company to produce a 15 year policy because they keep you for 15 years. Then it's called persistence in the insurance business than it is for them to try to get you to keep stay with a policy that goes up every year. Can you imagine that if you get a bill and every year it goes up, you're probably more likely to cancel that so that policy doesn't stay on the books. So it's more expensive for them to sell arts. So net result is a 15 year is way cheaper than the average of 15 years of art. Okay? Now the index universal goes up every year inside the policy, but you don't see it. So if you got a $400 premium, certain portion, like on your, you know, if you ever look at your mortgage, your mortgage payment, a portion goes to interest, a portion goes to principal. The further you go along, more goes to principal, less goes to interest. This is exactly the opposite. The further you go along, more goes to insurance, less goes. Because the art is going up every year inside there, less is going to your investments. And so if you keep the stupid thing long enough, it will begin to be the point that the premium you're paying will not even cover the insurance cost. And so it starts to eat back into your savings just to keep the policy alive. And the thing gets what we call upside down in the insurance business. And so now you've got a real piece of crap that's, that's eating itself from the inside out.

[Paul]

But they pitch it as this really sophisticated, nuanced listen. It's so complicated. You don't understand. Just trust me, as your insurance guy, I'm gonna make you lots of money.

[George Camel]

Let me give you a clue, okay? When you drive past most cities, the skyline has banks and life insurance companies. These are the two towers in every skyline. Santa Claus didn't build those. And those people didn't build them with wealth they inherited. They built them with money they took from you. Banks screwing you, life insurance companies screwing you. This has been going on for decades.

[Paul]

Nothing new.

[George Camel]

It's not a new. It's not a new song, not a new dance. And just because you put it on TikTok, for God's sakes, doesn't make it smart. As a matter of fact, that kind of dumbs it down.

[Paul]

That's a trigger word for you. I'm sorry, I shouldn't mention anything.

[George Camel]

I mean, it's just like what we.

[Paul]

Teach is that you should take the difference that if you pay a 5 bucks for term life versus 100 for whole life, take the 95 bucks you would have spent in an invest that and you're going to be way better off than having touched one of these crappy policies.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Oh, here, by the way, after you paid extra on this all these years and you die, they only pay the face value. They don't pay the face value. Plus your savings that you've been paying extra to bill. So it's like a savings account with a crummy rate of return that gets locked up that when you die they keep your money. I mean, who would bank with that? Oh, people that buy stuff on TikTok.

[Paul]

I think Danny needs better friends. Yeah, well, it's time.

[George Camel]

I mean, that happens to everybody because that's how most particularly whole life, permanent life, crappy life insurance is sold is some old friend from college suddenly remembers you.

[Paul]

My buddy from Northwestern Mutual said, yeah, let's be done with that.

[George Camel]

Oh, that's horrible. That happened to me. That happened to me. I bought it. We've all been when I was a child, boy. Yep, sure did. I did the same stupid stuff and I have a degree in finance and.

[Paul]

I fell for the now he's a grown man America. He made it.

[George Camel]

This is the Ramsey Show.