Your Money Isn’t the Problem—Your Plan Is

Summary

The Ramsey Show: Your Money Isn’t the Problem—Your Plan Is (March 4, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave Ramsey and co-host George Campbell take compelling live calls from listeners in financial conundrums. The recurring message: It’s not your money—it’s your plan. Listeners from all walks of life share their stories about overwhelming debt, career and real estate decisions, family budget struggles, and more. Dave and George assess each situation with signature bluntness and empathy. Their advice emphasizes practical math, radical personal responsibility, and the life-changing power of a unified plan.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Danger of Poor Career ROI and Overwhelming Student Debt

• Caller (Ariel in NY): $300,000 in student loans for a social work degree, unpaid house, household income ~$107K, Ariel has a disability (seizure disorder).
• Dave’s Advice [03:11]:
  • “What I always reach for is the basic sixth grade math… There’s two sides, income and outgo. We’ve got a big hole which is 300 grand.”
  • Urges both spouses to maximize income—even if this means career shifts or relocation.
  • If income can triple, this can go from 7-10 years to 2-3 years to become debt-free.
• George’s Input [04:52]:
  • “The napkin math says you can throw 50 grand at this, it’s done in six years. But 50 grand is four grand a month—and you’re taking home five.”
  • Suggests potential short-term sacrifice (childcare cost) for longer-term gain.

Notable Quote

“It just breaks my heart to hear that any school is charging $300,000 for a degree in social work. That might net you 50 grand a year. The math on that… is just not there.”
—George Campbell [07:02]

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2. Should You Keep or Sell a Rental Property with Poor ROI?

• Caller (Maggie in SD): Debating whether to keep renting out a California condo or sell it to pay off six-figure debt.
• Dave Breaks Down the Math [12:03]:
  • “If you had $100,000 stacked in the middle of your kitchen table…would you buy a condo three states away that fails to cover its payment with rent? No sane person would. It’s a bad deal.”
• George Adds [13:02]:
  • “Landlords that are losing money—nothing about this sounds fun to me to keep around as a toy.”
• Consensus:
  Sell the condo, wipe out the debt, and radically shift the family’s financial trajectory.

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3. Remote Income for Stay-at-Home Parents: Chasing the Work-from-Home Dream

• Caller (Bethany, Salem, OR): Seeking fully remote jobs as a stay-at-home mom, prior CNA.
• Advice [19:30]:
  • Virtual assisting, consulting, bookkeeping suggested.
  • May need to learn new skills to transition.
  • Recommendation: Ramsey’s side hustle quiz for tailored ideas.

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4. Retirement Planning Paranoia: Is It Too Late?

• Caller (Courtney in Seattle): Age 40, $86K in debt, husband worried about delayed retirement investments (only a pension so far).
• Dave’s Calculation [23:00]:
  • “You’re going to be multimillionaires… if you follow this process.”
  • 15% of $200K income invested for 20 years: $2.5 million projected.
  • Focus on finishing debt payoff—then aggressively invest.

Memorable Moment

“I want you debt free in under 18 months.”
—Dave Ramsey [24:33]

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5. Transitioning to Single Income in Ministry: Planning for Shrinking Budgets

• Caller (Hope in SC): Pregnant, preparing to drop from dual to single (ministry) income.
• Dave’s Concern [27:04]:
  “So you’re planning on this baby being skinny?... Your husband’s going to be taking a second job.”
• George: Stresses the impracticality of living at the poverty line ($1,600/mo).
• Advice: Husband should pick up additional work for family well-being.

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6. When a Former Home Becomes a Money Pit

• Caller (Chris near Seattle): Wife owns 38-acre property with a condemned house ($350K owed).
• Dave’s Assessment [34:02]:
  • “You could push the house down and sell the 38 acres. Find out what it’s actually worth—don’t operate on feelings.”
• George: “The longer you hang on, the more money you lose.”
• Action: Get an agent to appraise and consider selling now.

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7. Should I Keep Paying for Concealed Carry Liability Insurance?

• Caller (Andrew, Cleveland): $40K household income, $25/mo insurance for CCW.
• Dave’s Take [38:12]:
  • “By far the best insurance you can have is have your brain screwed in if you’re going to do this and really have done some training.”
  • Personal choice—insurance is “lawyer insurance.”

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8. Job Title vs. Quality of Life: Moving for Family, Losing a Title

• Caller (David in LA, moving to Alaska): Taking a title demotion but getting more family time and higher pay.
• Dave’s Take [68:26]:
  • “As a layman… I don’t think there’s two people on the planet that will notice your title change. I don’t think it matters.”

Notable Quote

“I collect the ability to get things done and get paid for it.”
—Dave Ramsey [67:58]

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9. Starting Over After Addiction: Tax Woes

• Caller (Amber, Tulsa): Husband’s sobriety, haven’t filed taxes in years due to past alcoholism.
• Dave’s Warning [45:01]:
  • “Failure to file income tax returns is a federal criminal offense. Failure to pay taxes is not.”
  • Get proactive now—file with a professional immediately.

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10. High-Income, Debt-Free—Buy the $50,000 Harley?

• Caller (Todd, Lexington): $350K cash, $450K in retirement, no debt, wants to buy $50K Harley.
• Advice [50:04]:
  “You can afford the Harley for sure...tune up your investments, but go for it!”

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11. Disabled Spouse: From Surviving to Thriving

• Caller (Megan, Charlotte): HR manager, disabled husband, family of 5.
• Dave’s “Workaround” Mindset [55:39]:
  • Recommends husband become an entrepreneur—see disability as a potential business superpower.
• Challenge:
  Wife should seek a higher-paying HR job; current salary is low for position and region.

Notable Quote

“What is perceived as a disability is an ability. There’s opportunity there.”
—Dave Ramsey [62:25]

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12. Spousal Money Conflict: Separate Incomes or Marriage Counseling?

• Caller (Melissa, New Orleans): Wants to separate finances to reduce marital money fights.
• Dave’s Directness [88:12]:
  • “You don’t have a money problem. You have a marriage problem. Let's not fix a marriage problem with a money solution.”
  • Encourages marriage counseling, working together “the first time, completely.”

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Additional Practical Advice Throughout the Show

• On Selling Underperforming Properties: If a rental (especially Airbnb) is barely breaking even or losing money, sell it, clear debts, and rebuild with cash and patience.
• On Student Loans: Never take out a student loan unless absolutely unavoidable—use six-figure brokerage accounts BEFORE taking even as little as a $30K loan.
• "Emergency" or "Sinking" Funds: Once you reach stability (baby steps 4, 5, and 6), build sinking funds for big future expenses like cars or home repairs, but don’t overdo it and tie up all cash.
• On Backdoor Roth and Mega Backdoor Roth: For high earners maxing out conventional retirement vehicles—only entertain these after house is paid off (Baby Step 7).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Student Loan Regret

“If we could have talked to Ariel 10 years ago... The job market for this degree, it’s just horrible. That’s highway robbery.”
—Dave Ramsey [07:33]

On Family Wealth

“Very few, if almost none of the married couples that build wealth do it separately... If you want an advantage to building wealth, it’s learn to work together with your spouse.”
—Dave Ramsey [91:43]

On Getting Motivated to Tackle Debt

“Short term sacrifice, long term gain.”
—George Campbell [93:57]

On Retirement and Working for Joy, Not Necessity

“There’s no reason for you all to work unless you are enjoying it, and it’s what you want to do with your life. That’s why I work, but I haven’t worked in years because I needed money.”
—Dave Ramsey [122:09]

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Important Timestamps

| Segment/Caller | Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------|------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Ariel (NY & $300K loan) | Debt, Disability, Income Issue | 00:45–07:25 | | Maggie (SD) | Keep/sell rental, bad investment math | 10:45–16:14 | | Bethany (OR) | Remote job options for SAHM | 17:59–19:42 | | Courtney (Seattle) | Delayed retirement, 15% investing plan | 21:58–25:54 | | Hope (SC) | Single-income ministry worries | 26:13–30:34 | | Chris (Seattle) | Sell inherited “money pit” property | 32:22–36:25 | | Andrew (Cleveland) | Concealed-carry insurance worth the cost? | 37:09–41:35 | | David (LA to Alaska) | Moving, title demotion for better life | 65:37–70:34 | | Amber (Tulsa) | Tax delinquency after recovering alcoholism | 43:23–48:56 | | Todd (Lexington) | Should I buy the $50K Harley? | 49:09–53:35 | | Megan (Charlotte) | Disabled spouse, career mentality | 53:53–62:25 | | Melissa (New Orleans) | “Should I split the money with my husband?” | 85:19–93:10 | | Dividend Stock Myths | TikTok-type investment “stories” | 95:31–99:43 | | Major Retirement Decision | Should I work 4 more years for more pension? | 116:49–122:06 | | Tyler (Columbus) | Sell rentals or keep? | 122:48–125:31 |

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Summary: Tone & Takeaways

True to Dave’s brand, the tone throughout is unvarnished, direct, and empowering. Listeners are treated with candor, given actionable steps, and encouraged to take personal responsibility for the long term. The big idea: It’s not how much money you make, but whether you have an intentional plan—and work together—that determines your financial future.

Final Take:
Whether dealing with overwhelming debt, a career transition, marital disagreements, or lingering “money pits,” the answer remains the same: simple math, radical honesty, and a unified, action-oriented plan are the real keys to changing your financial destiny.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Campbell, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality and co host of Smart Money Happy Hour is my co host today. Than. Thanks for hanging out with us. The phone Number here is 888-825-5225. Darren and Ariel are with us in New York. Hi guys. How are you?

[Caller]

Okay.

Thank you for deserving better than we deserve.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up in your world?

[Caller]

It's such an honor to speak to you. You go Ariel.

Well, we've read your books, we follow your plan. However, I made some errors when I was went back to school to obtain a degree and landed myself in almost $300,000 of student debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you a doctor or a lawyer?

[Caller]

I am neither, unfortunately.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you, what did, what degree did you get?

[Caller]

I'm a social worker.

[Dave Ramsey]

For 300 grand, what do you make?

[Caller]

Not nearly that. My plan had been to. And this is what I was encouraged to do by my professors was to work for the government and do 10 years of working, you know, in a nonprofit sector. But that hasn't worked out. So here I find myself and we are calling for guidance.

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make now? What's your household income between you and Darren?

[Caller]

Well, at the moment I'm not working. We have a six month old and Darren brings in gross 107. Right.

JD a year, 108, but it comes down to 5,5000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you live in the city? In Manhattan?

[Caller]

No, we live in a suburb. Yeah, we live in a suburb of New Jersey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

We, we have a paid for house.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's nice.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. That really.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it worth?

[Caller]

About 450.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And Darren, what do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I work for the government. I work for data analytics for Department of Health.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool, cool. Okay. And how long have you been doing that?

[Caller]

25 years. We're, we're, we're older. I'm, I'm 50. My wife is 40, so it's when we, we got married three years ago and we have a six month old and you know we want to pay this off in our lifetime and we know you have very practical advice. So you know, that's why we.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean what I always reach for is the basic sixth grade math. Right. Which is there's two sides, income and outgo, we've got a big hole which is 300 grand. We've got a medium sized shovel which is 107 until you drop it into New Jersey. And that makes it a small shovel and a brand new baby. And so I'm starting to look, you know, where can we get income up and out go down to throw the difference at this.

[Caller]

My husband works second part time job and as I said, I also have a disability. So for me, New Jersey. Drive. I can't drive. So that's also part of the equation where I was at my last couple of jobs, I was getting a negative return, which is why I didn't go back after the baby was born.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's the nature of your disability? Huh?

[Caller]

I had. Well, I have a seizure disorder which prevents me from driving.

Yeah. Okay. All right, all right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's. That's reality. Okay. Wow. Okay. So, you know, if I'm looking at your situation through your eyes for a second, I'm saying the more money we can make, the faster we get out of this. And that involves Darren maximizing his career and Ariel maximizing her career. What is the most money we can possibly make? Does that involve a move? Does it involve the fact that data analytics is a very hot field and you might be worth 200k in the open market if you got away from the government? It's a very hot field. And so I'm just looking at all of those ideas.

[George Campbell]

With your current take home pay, this is going to take you seven to 10 years. So that's the issue. Here is the napkin. Math says you can throw 50 grand at this. It's done in six years. But 50 grand is, you know, four grand a month and you're taking home five.

[Caller]

You don't have that.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, exactly.

[Caller]

Margin.

[George Campbell]

So I'm just showing you the, the length that will be shortened to a Dave's point if you can make more. And that might mean if Ariel can go make 70 grand as a social worker, it might be worth, you know, finding childcare even if it costs you 30, so that you can get out of this faster.

[Caller]

Right. So I, I've never, like, unfortunately, I'm provisionally licensed, you know, life, etcetera, and finding supervision and having unfortunate people.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know all the obstacles. You've got a lot of them. But what I do know is you need more income for sure.

[Caller]

And I was looking into possibilities. I've been working freelance, doing other things outside my field to try to bring in some income. But unfortunately, freelance work has not been I mean, I've made money, but not nearly enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I hear you. So I think you both have to sit down and do some soul searching about where we work, where can we work to make the most money to clean this up? Because it's not going away. You figured that part out. That's why you called. And it goes away when you pay it off. And so where we work and where we live, and those are the things that impact this. Where we live, has to do with cost of living, has to do with accessibility to jobs. This might be the perfect place. I don't know. You might find a place right around the corner that pays him 250 and. And a place right around the corner that pays you 100 in some other field even, I don't care. But if we suddenly go from 100 to 300, oh, ding, ding. We can knock this out now in two years and within two or three years, and that starts to get there. But it's going to require some kind of pretty dramatic shifts in your career tracks, because the ones that you're on, you're going to be there a long time and it's going to be. It's not going to be fun, which is why you called.

[George Campbell]

It just breaks my heart to hear that any school is charging $300,000 for a degree in social work. That might net you 50 grand a year. Yeah, the math on that, the ROI of some of these degrees is just not there. And so it starts with being very careful of where you go to school, why you're going to school. And I would just get the cheapest degree that allows me to do the work that I want to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly. But I mean, that. That's how we. That's. If we could have Talked to Ariel

[George Campbell]

10 years ago, I can turn back time.

[Dave Ramsey]

If we could turn back time. But the rest of you out there, take a lesson. So actually study what the degree costs. Is there other ways I can get it, other places I can get it? Because, you know, this is the job market for this degree, and it's just horrible. You're right, George. That's highway robbery. And it's laughable that her professors, of course they got a degree in social work, so what do they know? You know, they're only out is you go take a job with the government, work there 10 years and that'll be forgiven. Of course, they don't even know how that works because they didn't do that.

[George Campbell]

But they shouldn't be giving financial advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they shouldn't be giving Any advice? Which begs the question, why are they doing social work? But there you go, man. I'm sorry you guys are in this, but it is truly a income outgo flex on the equation. That's what it takes. That's what it's going to take. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch. Give them a call at 800-356-4282. Maggie is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hey, Maggie, how are you?

[Caller]

I am good. How are y'?

[George Campbell]

All?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay, so my husband and I have found ourselves in kind of an interesting position where we differ in opinion at baseline on which route to take. So we have a condo in California and we are currently renting it out. It's not on the market for sale, but our tenants have expressed interest in purchasing it from us because they are looking for a home to buy.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's it worth?

[Caller]

We are. It is worth between 375 to 399.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Caller]

So we are not financially free. We're currently in baby step number two. Nor are we currently receiving an ROI on our rental yet. So we wanted to know is our best overall path to sell this place or should we keep running it out?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, I can tell which you. Which one you want to do and you're. And by the way, you're right, you're. You win the argument. So let's talk about this for a second. If in your situation. What do you owe on the condo?

[Caller]

We owe 309. Okay, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let's pretend that you didn't own this condo and you had $100,000 stacked in the middle of your kitchen table and you said, okay, honey, we should go buy a condo in California and put $100,000 down. That won't rent for enough to pay the payment. Both of you would look at each other like you got one eye in the center of your head and say, that's the dumbest idea I ever heard. Right.

[Caller]

Right. I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

You did not buy this condo as a rental. It's a leftover from a former life before you moved to Sioux Falls, isn't it?

[Caller]

That is correct. Yeah. It was not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody would do this on purpose.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you were gonna buy a $400,000 condo, you wouldn't buy it in California when you live in Sioux Falls. You'd buy it in Sioux Falls.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you would buy one that actually gave you an roi. So there's just so much about this. There's like six reasons to sell this and none to keep it long distance.

[George Campbell]

Landlords that are losing money. Nothing about this sounds fun to me to keep around as a toy.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So why does he want to keep it?

[Dave Ramsey]

He thinks real estate's the answer to all your riches.

[Caller]

That he thinks that in time, the return on investment will be worth it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope.

[Caller]

And I understand that, you know, renting, but the market in California, with rent, it's. California is the problem for me. Because the market there, even for landlords and renting, is. It's terrible. And. But he thinks that property value is just going to go up and there's always going to be renters wanting to rent it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Property values in real estate do not go up fast enough to offset a bad idea.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And this is a bad idea. I love real estate. The larger portion of my net worth is real estate. So I'm big on real estate. I want you to own real estate. But this real estate, you don't own this real estate. It owns you.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is a crappy situation. Yeah. Sell it. Sell it. Sell it. Sell it. You win the argument, Maggie. But you even knew that before you call.

[Caller]

I said, but, you know, and I mean, I. And it's not a haha. I win, you lose.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm not saying that. And you're not,

[Caller]

because I agree, you

[Dave Ramsey]

know, I want you guys to get out of debt. Yeah. Get out of debt. Build you a big old pile of money. Pay off your House. And with your next pile of money, if you want to go buy a nice condo there in Sioux Falls. Sioux Falls is a great market. Go buy a nice condo in there and pay cash for it and watch it go up in value and you'll make money every month. And yeah, then real estate is a good investment. But right now you got freaking consumer debt and this thing barely breaks even if everything works perfect.

[Caller]

Yeah. And that. Yeah, that's if everything works perfectly. Kind of handed a. Handed a nice little out of left field type of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, get out of jail free car.

[Caller]

Actually want to buy it?

[George Campbell]

Will they buy it at the market value

[Caller]

we have? Well, this is super early in the conversation, but they're. What we were told was that there was. Their looking price is well over, you know what the condo is worth on the market.

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so here's the thing. I love real estate and I'm telling you this is a bad deal. I would get out of it if it was me. Number one, I don't do long distance landlording. The most of the time people get into that. It's by default, not by plan. And that's how you got into it. Number two, the thing is not ROI ing. Number three, you would never buy it again if you didn't own it today. If you had this amount of money piled in the kitchen table, you would never go do this deal. Not in a million years. No sane person would. It's a bad deal. And so sell it. Sell it. Sell it. If this renter doesn't buy it, put it on the market and sell it anyway. Get rid of it.

[George Campbell]

And number four, you guys have a bunch of debt to pay off, so you need this money to clean up the mess.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much debt have you got?

[Caller]

Yes. So total, not counting your house or not counting my house? 108.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oddly enough. You're debt free.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's what I was like. We could, you know, if we sell

[Dave Ramsey]

this place and that's like $4,000 a month in payments. And yeah, you talk about an ROI. $4,000 a month in payments. How long ago did you move out of this condo?

[Caller]

We moved out in the summer. July.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good. So you can still take personal residence, no capital gain on it, Right?

[Caller]

It hasn't been yet. It hasn't been a rental for that long.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. You got to get rid of. You need to get rid of it before you lose that capital gains. Right?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because you could take all this money that you can get on the table and pay zero taxes and throw it all at your debt and have a $4,000 a month change in position. This is, this is a no brainer.

[George Campbell]

That ROI is much fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like ha ha, Maggie, I'm right. But Maggie, ha ha, you are freaking right. I mean my gosh.

[George Campbell]

I guess her hope is to play it back and she gets to say well. Dave said well.

[Dave Ramsey]

And George said I don't know if

[George Campbell]

that's going to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

All of America said I wish. There's the math says it doesn't even matter what my opinion is. What matters is the math. This is just dumb math. It's dumb. You would never put $100,000 in an investment in three states over that breaks even. And if something breaks, you go in the hole. While you have $100,000 in consumer debt, it's almost as if you borrowed money on a credit card and a car to go buy this condo. That's the way the balance sheet looks crazy. Don't do it. Don't do it. Do it. Get rid of it. Bethany's in Salem, Oregon. Hey Bethany.

[Caller]

Hi.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[Caller]

I'm just looking for ideas for something I can do from home. I'm a full time stay at home mom and wife of a four month old and just needing some extra income for some different things and was wondering if you guys have any ideas to throw at me that I could try.

[Dave Ramsey]

George has got much better ones than I do. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Are you looking for something completely remote that you can do during nap times, that kind of thing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, she's taking a nap. She's not working.

[George Campbell]

Well, not you, that baby. So here's the problem. Everybody wants the remote job they can do from the couch in their spare time. But the thing is the stuff that actually makes money all day long.

[Caller]

I can keep my baby here and my husband works remote too upstairs.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Between the two of us, like the baby can be between us doing something or not.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was your former career?

[Caller]

I did CNA for about four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Is there not some telemed stuff that's pretty lucrative? Telemed?

[Caller]

I haven't looked into that too much. The few things I've tried looking remotely as I've researched a few things. I don't have enough experience at the resources I've looked into or I don't have enough degree because I don't have any college like formal education or anything. I just have my DNA license in the different places. I want X amount of years of, you know, working or they want this degree plus this or different options. So it's been kind of so if

[George Campbell]

you can't work as a CNA remotely, you're gonna have to shift completely to something else, which would be like virtual assisting, consulting, bookkeeping. So you might need to pick up some new skills if you want to do this from home.

[Caller]

Oh, I'm totally fine with picking up new skills. My my caveat is I can't find

someone that will take you out.

[George Campbell]

We've got a side hustle quiz to help you out. Go to ramseysolutions.com sidehustle it'll start to give you some ideas on things you could do and I would try a few sa. Hey, let's play a quick game of Would you rather Would you rather keep overpaying your phone company every month or save 600 bucks a year with no contract and no price hikes ever? Easy answer. That's why I love Boost Mobile. With their low rates, you can unlock up to 600 bucks in savings over the so called big carriers. You can bring your phone, keep your number and pay just 25 bucks a month forever on the unlimited plan because you've got better things to do with your money. So go to boostmobile.com Ramsey to make the switch today based on average annual payment of AT&T, Verizon and T Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January 2026. See website for full details.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it? Feel like a rat and and a wheel? Run, run, run, run run. Get nowhere, have a heart attack and die? Yeah, well you don't have to live that way. Our EveryDollar budgeting app helps you find extra money every month. Build you a personalized plan to get out of debt so that you can become wealthy and outrageously generous. We're going to walk you through the whole Ramsey plan on this app. Just 15 minutes. You're going to find thousands of dollars in hidden margin to get you started. You'll feel like you have a raise. And then we teach you how to not be normal, be weird. Live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. Start the EveryDollar app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Courtney's in Seattle. Hi Courtney, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Good, thank you.

[George Campbell]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[Caller]

Thank you for taking the call. My husband and I are on baby step two and we have $86,000 in debt that will be paid off next year. My husband is almost 40 and is worried about the fact that we only have A pension right now to retirement. At our age, how hardcore do we go towards retirement once our debt is paid off? And so do we still do the 15%? Even though he has that pension?

[Dave Ramsey]

You weren't putting money in retirement two years ago, right?

[Caller]

No, we have not been able to put anything. We just have the pension.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so just after you start working on the debt, then you decide to worry about retirement. That's weird.

[Caller]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, that's not logical. And here's the thing. We're talking about one year. You guys are going to be multimillionaires. If you follow this process through, you're

[George Campbell]

not 60, you're 40. You got another 25 years at least of a working career. That's plenty of time to build wealth, especially if you're debt free. Think about how much margin that will free up for the rest of your life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, have him, you and him get on the Ramsey Solutions website, jump on the calculator for retirement and put in 15% of your household income. What's your household income

[Caller]

this year? We just both got good raises this year. It'll be 200, but he's actually getting another.

[Dave Ramsey]

So $30,000. $30,000. $2,500 a month for 20 years. And so that means you're going to start in two years. Right. So it's 65. That's 20 years from 45 to 65. Right. $2,500 a month in good growth stock mutual funds. We suggest you put it in four types. Growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international. You've probably heard all this. Yep. And when you invest in that, put that in the calculator and you're going to see $2.5 million.

[Caller]

Wow. Okay. That makes it sound much better.

[George Campbell]

That's if you start a year from now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's if you. If you wait until you're 45 years old because you followed this process and got out of debt. And guess what? You can't put $2,500 away right now because you got 86,000 freaking dollars in debt sucking the bone marrow out of your life.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So let's get. Let's get the patient healed and then let's turn the offense on. Okay, that makes sense.

[Caller]

Thank you. That's very helpful. Yeah, no, that's. That, that gives me a lot of hope for sure.

[George Campbell]

Because what most people do, Courtney, is they go, well, I'll put 3% in my investments and I'll try to throw some at the debt. And they end up doing Nothing. Because there's no progress being made on that basis.

[Dave Ramsey]

With 200,000 and 86,000, I want you debt free in under 18 months.

[Caller]

We will definitely, we're able to sell the truck in June when my husband gets a promotion and he gets a, he gets a work vehicle. So that will be 25,000 gone in June. That will be huge. I already sold my car. I'm driving a 20 year old Camry at this point. So we're definitely making progress. This is the first month where we're really able to shove everything we have towards it. I just started working full time as a stay at home mom until my youngest went to kindergarten.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing. You're not going to only make 200k for the next 40 years, right? Or 20 years. 20 years. You're going to get raises. We did that with no raises. So you're not going to end if you follow through and do exactly what we teach you to do. Get out of debt, put 15% away, save for your kids, college, get the house paid off usually in about seven or eight years. And then you load up on this. You're going to have between 5 and $10 million.

[George Campbell]

Then you're talking about maxing out retirement accounts, catch up contributions after 50. And so you guys are going to be just fine if you follow through with this plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But it all starts with getting out of the, getting rid of the debt.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay. Thank you so much. We've never been so motivated as you are now. We tried to do this multiple times and this is the only time we've actually started to succeed.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're going to do it. You're going to do it. I can tell you. Because I can tell you're going to do it. You got it all over you. You're going to go do it. And I want to hear from you when you're debt free and I want to hear from you when you're a baby steps millionaire because you are on your way. Way to go. I'm proud of you. Hope is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi Hope, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

Awesome. So my husband and I are going through Financial Peace University and are on baby step two. We've paid off our first debt in the snowball and want to continue with gazelle intensity. But we're expecting our first child in May post delivery.

Yay.

Thank you so much. We have four and a half K in the emergency fund to act as a Buffer for those no bills. But not knowing the full cost is difficult to plan for. After baby, we will become a single income family in ministry. What are some practical ways for us to approach our emergency fund and the debt snowball? And also becoming a single income household after the baby is born.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

Current cash take home between the two of us is 55k.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you mean?

[Caller]

And I make 35 of that in cash take home.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're planning on this baby being skinny?

[Caller]

I hope so.

[George Campbell]

You're the breadwinner right now he's making 20k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Take your income by 60%. I want you to be a stay at home mom. But this is not a good plan

[George Campbell]

because what you just told me is how do we live on $1600 a month?

[Caller]

So part of that is my husband's job provides us with housing and pays all of our utilities.

[Dave Ramsey]

While you live at the poverty level?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, again, I don't know that you can do that on $1,600 and build wealth.

[Dave Ramsey]

82% of America's pastors are bi vocational. They have two jobs because of what we're describing here. So your husband's gonna be taking a second job.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want you living at the poverty level. That's not my dream for you. And believe me, I love pastors and I love ministry and I love people that are called to the ministry. I spent last week with three of my favorite pastors, my buddies hanging out with me, and I just love them. And I'm a big fan of everything you're doing and who you are. I'm a Christian. I support with my tithes our church and make sure that they feed their people there where we're not having people on food stamps. And you guys are right there though. And, and you're, you know, you're. You're just getting started in the ministry, right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I think the two of you have got to talk about what God's call on your life looks like while you're doing this. Does it involve you going back to work? I hope not. I don't like that one. Does it involve him taking an extra job? Does it involve his ministry playing out in a different way for now? Because first goal is take care of your own household, not the flock. His first job, your first job is feed that household that baby and that rent. And you guys are. This is tight, kiddo. This is really, really tight.

[George Campbell]

Doesn't factor in the debt payments because you guys still have a little mess to clean up. And so that just scares me to go day one, we're going to live off 1600 while trying to pay off debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm not going to tell you that that's a good plan because it's not. And the blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them.

[Caller]

Hmm.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what part of this whole thing is a blessing? Because I sense sorrow in the future here. I think there's wonderful things happening. A baby, a young marriage, a call to ministry. There's a lot of wonderful things happening. But the mind of man plans his ways, but the Lord directs his steps. So you've got to lay out a game plan here, work like it all depends on you and pray like it all depends on God. All right, God, I know you called me to this ministry. So God, how are you going to fund our family? Show me what I need to do as a work. What, what, what harness do I need to put my shoulder to so that I can get this done? What tense have I got to make if we want to use the Paul analogy so that I can prepare my for my ministry? But you know, I'm not even with pastoral housing. I'm not going to consign you to the poverty level and call that God's call on your life. I'm not going to do that.

[Caller]

Sam.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Chris is in Seattle. Hi Chris, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey Dave, how's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Good man. Hey, so my question is, my wife and I, we've been married for about three months. We just bought a house this past weekend at around 1.1 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

Outside Seattle. It's on site. It's on five acres. Really close to our parents, close to my work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nice.

[Caller]

Nice piece of. Nice piece of property that we must start homesteading on. The thing that's on my mind is before we got married, she bought a home in eastern Washington for about 500,000. She still owes, or we still owe about 350. And it's on about 38 acres of mostly forest with a nice pasture. It was kind of like a Covid buy for her, you know, when things got a little bit crazy, she wanted a place that she could escape to. The issue is there was a bad plumbing leak because of no heat and burst pipes. So now the home is uninhabitable, and it's costing us about 18 to $2,000 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did she not have insurance?

[Caller]

That's a good question. I never. I never thought about that, actually. I think. I think the thing is, the home was pretty run down as it was, so they. They were planning on gutting it anyway.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so the value here is the 13 acres. Not the lot, not the house. 38 acres, I'm sure.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you could push the house down and sell the 38 acres?

[Caller]

Yes. I just don't know if it's worth what she. We still owe on it, is the problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I would find out.

[Caller]

Okay, so you don't think it's. Yeah. You think it's worth. You don't think it's worth keeping as a.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller]

Potentially investment? Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. It's a money pit. You owe $175,000. If you had $175,000. Let's just pretend you didn't own this. And you woke up in the morning and you said, I found a place we can get for $175,000, 38 acres with nothing down, and pay payments on it. You wouldn't do that.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what you've got.

[Caller]

You think even if we're underwater on the house right now, still try to get rid of it?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry? House and acreage. We don't think we're underwater, do we?

[George Campbell]

You don't think it's worth even 350?

[Caller]

It's hard. I don't think so now. Because she bought it during the craze where everyone was trying to get out of the city.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you're not operating on facts. You're operating on feelings. You need to have a real estate agent go out and tell you what this piece of property will bring. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and click on Ramsey Trusted for real estate agents and have one of them go out and look at it for you and say, chris, I think we can get $210,000 for this. Kris, I think it's going to bring $110,000 and here's why. And then based on that, you can start making some decisions on. But this does not sound to me like it's something I want to own.

[George Campbell]

The longer you hang on to it, the more money you lose. Because you said you're bleeding two grand a month. Yeah, Just hang on.

[Caller]

Yeah. Interest rates around 2%.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what the interest rate is.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's an alligator. It eats money. It doesn't produce money. Right? Yeah.

[Caller]

Right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, right now. I mean, it's going up in value, I hope, but not lately, because the house is rotting down now. It's full of mold and everything else.

[Caller]

Right. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is. You just got married, you got a wonderful house, you have a wonderful life. Don't let this be a distraction, this money pit. Throw a grenade in the middle of all the good stuff you're doing.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cut it loose.

[George Campbell]

The definition of sunk cost fallacy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

Gonna keep dumping money and hopefully get out on the other side.

[Dave Ramsey]

Andrew's in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Andrew. How are you? Pretty good.

[Caller]

How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I have a CCW with and I carry insurance for that ccw. Me and my wife, we are in Baby step two right now. But we just learned about the insurance baby step in the class that we're in with our church. And I'm wondering, do I keep it or do I get rid of it?

[Dave Ramsey]

For those out there that don't know what he's talking about, it's concealed carry. Okay. And so you're carrying a firearm and you're carrying insurance in case, God forbid, you used the firearm and got sued. Correct?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. Well, there are varying degrees of cost on those things. There's a couple of them that we've looked at. We actually endorsed one for a while. The cost is reasonable. There are some that the cost is unreasonable based on what I think you're getting for it.

[Caller]

So I'm paying 25 bucks a month for it. All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your household income?

[Caller]

Household income is about 40,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It starts to be a lot at that point. So what you have to ascertain is not whether you're going to carry or not, because I think you are going to carry. Then the question is, are you going to do that without insurance, meaning that if, God forbid, something happens, you're just going to work through the consequences of that, or are you hoping to have some. Basically, this is lawyer insurance. It buys lawyers.

[Caller]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

What it does. So. Or do you want somebody on your side so I don't know what circumstances you're in and so forth? I carry every day, and I have for 35 years, and I don't have the insurance. And if it was Dave Ramsey, good God, can you imagine the lawsuits? You know? And so my process is, if something's going on, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna run instead of shoot. I'm leaving. Okay? I don't. I would never. You know, I have extra mental barriers to me pulling a firearm out beyond other people. And so you've got to just ascertain your position in that, because I'm truly. I've done a bunch of training with handguns and a bunch of people that really do know what they're doing. And I love it as a sport, I love it as a hobby, I love it as an American. Right. All of those things. But the chances of me shooting someone, unless they were killing one of my family members or me, would be zero. And so I'm just not going to engage those situations. So that lowers my need for insurance by my attitude about all of that. And so you've got to decide, what situations are you going to be in? What risk are you actually taking? And then making $40,000 a year, what's worth $300 a year? And you got to make that call for yourself. But I will tell you, and the CCW insurance people that know their stuff will tell you that by far the best insurance you can have is have your brain screwed in. If you're going to do this and really have done some training, and I'm serious, run away from situations, don't. Don't be. You know, you're not freaking Wyatt Earp. And you get that stuff dialed in, it changes the need for this, the level of need. But, you know, the people in the gun world say if you. If a round leaves your weapon and hits someone else, whether they're guilty of something or not, it's probably a million dollars. If it's me, it's 10 million. It'll cost me in legal fees to. Not because I'd be wrong, not because the law doesn't protect me, not because all the. But it's just the stinking law. The lawyers and the court system are all just set up to Screw people and it just be a horrible situation. So I got to tell you, man, it's not. There's very few things I'm going to invest $10 million in that has a bullet coming off of it. I mean, it's not just not going to do it. So the life of someone I love and I'm going to look at them and go, do I really like them? No, I'm kidding. I mean, if I've got to really protect someone, maybe, but that's. Oh, scary.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, it's a scary, scary thing to think about. But, you know, the peace of mind. If 300 bucks buys you the peace of mind right now, and you need that, fine. It's not going to make or break your debt payoff schedule.

[Dave Ramsey]

Agreed.

[George Campbell]

At 25 bucks a month. Now, if it was 100 bucks a month, making 40K, that, that is a serious amount of money. So the goal would be, can we get our income up and eventually sort of have our own insurance policy to help out with this and auto, home, umbrella, all of that. There's other ways you can also kind of stay protected, but outside of a firearm situation where someone sues you because of that, that's. That's a different situation. I don't know how often that happens, how many a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

But yeah, I can't even imagine. It's. It's almost nothing. But wow. It's a scary, scary thing to think about, that's for sure. And it makes lump come up in my throat just to think about the possibility of something like that. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Campbell]

Hey, guys. George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100, when people say, I don't know where my money goes, it's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem. They're not budgeting. Then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal. Winning with money is about doing the boring stuff consistently. And that includes banking someplace that helps you stop guessing with your money, like Fairwinds Credit Union. They're not gonna fix your habits. That part's on you. But they do support people who are ready to take control of their money. At Fairwinds, you get a high yield savings account with a great rate to help grow your emergency fund, a checking account that won't nickel and dime you, and up to 10 free savings accounts so you can organize your money on purpose. Because when you stay disciplined, your money gets predictable, manageable, and boring in the best way. So if you're ready for a bank that helps you Be intentional. Open your Smart Bundle [e-mail] Ramsey and get the Ramsey beware debit card to go along with it. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George Camel, Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host. Host today I'm Dave Ramsey. Amber is in Tulsa. Hi Amber, how are you? I'm good.

[Caller]

Thank you for speaking with me today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I have been married about 20 years and 15ish years of that marriage. My husband was an alcoholic and he has his own business and he was able to maintain that. He is now three years sober.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

And yes, thankfully. And he is back on track. But in the midst of the chaos, we have not filed our taxes since 2020 and I'm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Chaos? He was drunk for 20 years. When did the chaos happen?

[Caller]

Well, he just. It really was a downward spiral. It just got worse and worse. He even had a couple of DUIs. So it just kind of reached a peak.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 20 to 23 was him going to the bottom and 23 to now is coming back out.

[Caller]

Yes, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

I gotcha.

[Caller]

And now his business is thriving and we're doing really good. But this is just like a looming black cloud over us because I know we have to pay the piper.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, so the first thing to know is this, and it's very, very serious. Failure to file income tax returns is a federal criminal offense.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Failure to pay taxes is not.

[Caller]

Okay. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. People do not go to jail. People, people do not go to jail in America for not paying taxes. They do go to jail, around 2500 to 3000 of them each year for not filing. So we've got to get that off of you. The number of times that the IRS prosecute someone who comes out of the cold, off the grid on their own is almost zero. So you're going to initiate this filing immediately.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want them accidentally finding you in the next 30 days and really screwing up all of the positive progress he's made in the last three years.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So go to Ramsey. Go to ramseysolutions.com and get one of our tax elps. And they will help you. Typically what happens is you need to reconstruct the last three years, maybe four, and do the best you can to reconstruct those years and file those, and then all of those taxes will be due.

[Caller]

Okay.

And that's another thing. I don't even know that during that time Period. He kept a very good record.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care. We have to reconstruct something.

[Caller]

Okay.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The best you can do, you're going to have to pull it together because you need to file something because they're probably not going to look at it. They're probably just going to be happy that somebody just showed up and started giving them money. Okay, but. Right, but that's if you go to them. So do not put this off another year. Danger, danger, danger.

[Caller]

Yes. I don't want to go to jail.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's not you, it's him.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you working outside the home during this time?

[Caller]

No, I'm a stay at home mom. But I do help him with the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but there's no other tax bill other than the profits from the business.

[Caller]

No, no.

[George Campbell]

And you're not an employee of the business?

[Caller]

I'm just a co. Listed as a co owner.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does he have employees?

[Caller]

He has two, but they're just 1099. So they do their own taxes and everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well I think you're going to find when you delve into this that they're not really 1099.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you have to meet several guidelines to be 1099 employee. And I've got a feeling these guys don't. 1099 sometimes with entrepreneurs is. I just don't want to file taxes. So I'm gonna make the, I'm make the team do it. But a 1099 is for a self employed person. Your employees are not self employed.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I don't think you know. But you're again, your tax, that's a minor thing but your tax advisor can tell you about or your tax preparer can help you figure that out. But you need to get two or three, I mean three or four years with a, with a Ramsey trusted tax preparer and get it filed immediately. And then if you owe some money, you can put that on a payment plan with them and, or use some money you got in the bank and just pay them.

[Caller]

Yeah, and I'm ready to do that. I just want to be in good standing.

[George Campbell]

What's your financial situation now? How much debt do you guys have and what's the income?

[Caller]

We don't have a ton of debt, maybe 100 grand. And that is in houses and cars and a little bit of credit card. But we're bringing in close to 20 to 30,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

A month Net profit or gross?

[Caller]

Gross. There is some like equipment purchasing and paying employees in that amount.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, so. So you're probably making five grand a month?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So $60,000 a year. So. And I'm guessing in the bad years you might not have made anything.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

It may not be as bad as you think when you actually.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that means not going to be much taxes on it if you didn't make much.

[Caller]

Okay, that's what I'm hoping.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah. Let's just get all this pulled together and be proactive in approaching the irs. And I make fun of them and pick on them all the time, but they're actually pretty good to work with in these situations. If you come to them, don't wait

[George Campbell]

for them to come after you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't want the men in black showing up with a gun. Right, but that's, you know, that kind of thing. But that's, yeah, go. Come in, out. Come in out of the cold as quick as you can. Todd is in Lexington, Kentucky. Hey, Todd, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing great. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I was, me and my wife, we. We're looking to buy a new Harley.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much?

[Caller]

It's 50,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got 50,000?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah, it's $50,000 Harley and you've got 50,000 cash?

[Caller]

Yes, we do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Caller]

Yeah, we have like 450 in retirement and then 350. About 350 cash or a little more. And I just, you know, I just wanted to retire and like I'm looking to retire in about five years. She's already retired. And I just want to be, you know, just want to be smart with my money, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you got any debt?

[Caller]

No, none.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

About three to 350.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I would buy the Harley, but I also would tune up my investments and make sure we're putting a good amount because you're making really good money and you could really stack some cash and buy a lot of things later that you want to buy. But right now you can afford Harley for sure.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what kind of vehicles and toys do you have right now?

[Caller]

Really? No, I mean. Well, I actually do. I do have a Harley now that's worth about 15,000. I'd probably just sell outright. And then we have a paid off 23 Tahoe and a paid off 22 Silverado pickup. And then I have a vehicle that I use for my business. I just, I work a full time job for the federal government and I'm electrical inspector on the side. And then I also build houses.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you understand that your motorcycle is going to be your most Expensive vehicle now,

[Caller]

right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Your toys.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your toy is worth more than your other cars that you drive every day.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's. That's what, that's, that's one of my. I mean, that's what.

[George Campbell]

And it's gonna be worth 15 grand when you go to sell it. So just know that going into it,

[Dave Ramsey]

you're gonna lose the money, but you've got the money to burn it. Okay? You got the money to enjoy it. And it's not out of line. I. I might have Paul in doing it, but it's not out of line. It's not a. It's not a. You know, you're not too broke to do it, but I want you to sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and make sure all of your money is invested. And if you're making 350, you should have more money stacked than what you've got stacked. So I want you to increase your investment goals so that you have got millions later to do stuff with. When you've saved up and paid cash for a reliable used car, you want that thing to last. And the best way to keep it running for the long haul is to take care of it with people you trust. That's why I'm proud to welcome Christian Brothers Automotive as the official auto repair partner of the Rams show. At Christian Brothers, they treat you like family. You'll get digital vehicle inspections so you can see exactly what your technician sees. A complimentary shuttle to keep you moving. And every repair is backed by their nationwide nice difference warranty. They've even been ranked number one by JD Power for customer satisfaction among aftermarket full service maintenance and repair providers six years in a row. Visit jdpower.com awards for the details. So if you want your paid for car to keep going and going, trust Christian Brothers Automotive. Visit cbac.comramsey to find your local shop and get an exclusive Ramsey discount of 10% off your visit.

[George Campbell]

10% off up to a $250 value.

[Dave Ramsey]

See store for details. Megan is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi Megan. How are you?

[Caller]

Good.

How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Love it. I was hoping to hear you say that. That's awesome. Been listening to you guys for years. So I'm just wondering how it is possible to go from surviving to thriving with a disabled husband.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the nature of his disability?

[Caller]

Since he was 19, he has chronic pancreatitis with all kinds of complications that have resulted as a result of that, multiple surgeries and all kinds of things over the years. Just Making it where he's completely unable to work reliably. It happened when he was 19. He went in for a surgery and came out with an acute bout of pancreatitis. And it's just been downhill ever since then.

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you do?

[Caller]

I am a human resources manager.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make

[Caller]

right now about take home? About $31.96 per month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. How many kids have you all got?

[Caller]

We have three. We have a 15 year old and an 11 month old and a two year old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. How much debt have you got?

[Caller]

Not counting your house, only about $1,600.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good. Good.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a good basis to start from. Well, obviously surviving to thriving is an income issue and an outgo issue. If you spend everything you make, it doesn't matter if you make a lot. And if you don't make anything, that's going to be tough. Right. So is it easier to thrive on 36,000 or 336,000? Well, obviously 336,000. Right. So how old are you guys?

[Caller]

We'll both be 40 this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So there's an old book, probably really old. I'm not even sure if you can find it anymore. But I'm more about the thesis of the book than the book. It's called what Color Is yous Parachute? And the book had in it a ton of stories of people who were overcomers and created incomes in spite of physical and even mental disabilities. And the thing that I took away from it was two things. One is a lot of these people, your husband in this case, found a way to found a workaround to be an entrepreneur and own their own business. And that enabled them to take the downtime that they had to have because of the physical limitations. But the interesting thing about entrepreneurs is that ADHD and dyslexia occurs about eight times more often among entrepreneurs than it does the general public. Meaning this, that people with ADHD or dyslexia or any kind of limitation learn their whole life is about a workaround. And oddly enough, that's what business is all about. The definition of an entrepreneur is find a need and fill it. It's a workaround. We gotta find a new way to do an old thing or a new way to do a new thing and figure out a way to do that in spite of all these people and things and crap coming at us, those of us that start and run businesses. Right. So that's what he. Because his mental toughness to deal with the medical Limitations that he's had will actually work in his favor to start a business versus someone who's perfect healthy because he's already got calluses on his brain in this area. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Very much, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So to me, that's encouraging. So I'm going to start thinking about what he can do as a business and, you know, how can he delegate some of the things, hire employees and get somebody to do that he's not able to do. Where can we start out of the garage? Obviously, it's not going to be something that's physically taxing on him, but it does have to be something that can come and go because he needs to have some down days, some down hours. He can't work a 9 to 5.

[Caller]

Right, right. Yeah. Not reliably.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. And you don't want to set up a business that requires him to be present nine to five. That's what I mean by a workaround. So anyway, I'm going to encourage him to find a way to create maybe the most money you guys have ever seen in your life if he happens to strike goal with it and kind of come at that with that attitude. And really the same thing for you. You're a human resource manager and you make $30,000, $40,000 a year.

[Caller]

Well, I do. I do have some retirement coming out of that, and I do have, like one small insurance coming out of that. So there's a little bit coming out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you're not making much money for HR manager.

[Caller]

Not really. And honestly, not for the area that I'm in either. The reason that I'm still here is because the people are really won.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, your family needs money. I don't give a crap how wonderful they are.

[George Campbell]

We'll find wonderful people elsewhere. Right now we need wonderful people.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pay you twice as much.

[Caller]

Yeah. Okay, so you got a few levers

[George Campbell]

to pull on here. If he can get something going, you can increase your income. Now we've got some serious margin because right now your expenses are probably three grand a month, and that's what you're taking home. So it's going right back out to the bills.

[Caller]

It really is.

Yeah.

Because it seems like we, like, start to build up a few hundred dollars in an emergency fund and then it all goes away. And then we have to kind of start back from scratch, like every month. So it's just. We're just not getting anywhere. That's why I've been putting a little bit more into that retirement, because I was just terrified. Like, what if we get to 60 and have nothing to show for it, you know?

[George Campbell]

Well, right now you're doing five good things at once, and you're not making progress. You're trying to pay off that 1600 bucks in debt. You're trying to throw Summit Savings. You're trying to invest. I would just focus on one thing at a time. And for you guys, that's $1,000 starter emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

So my assignment for him is I want him to start a business that in the first year makes 50,000 profit and the second year makes 100,000 profit. My assignment to you is go find a job that doubles your income.

[Caller]

Okay. Yep. I think we're gonna have to do

[Dave Ramsey]

that, and I think those are doable. They're doable. I believe in you.

[Caller]

Yep.

Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You call us back as you're going on this fight now, and we'll help you. Hang on. I'm gonna send you a call. A book called Building a Business yous Love. It's my latest number one bestseller. It's how to Start and Run a Business. And we'll help him with that. But. So, George, when I first found that statistic, that dyslexia in particular is. I forget the number. It's way more prevalent among entrepreneurs than business owners, than the general public. Like, light years, like 30 times or something. It's crazy. I can't remember the number, but it was just mind blowing. And then as we sat and talked about it and thought about it, and I talked to a couple guys that got dyslexia because we work with 10,000 small businesses in entree leadership, and they're like, hey, man, my whole life's a workaround. Everything I do, I have to figure out a way to do stuff, overcome an obstacle that is just normal for you other people. And y' all are just lazy. And so I go get it, you know, because he said everything, I have to figure out a weird way and an abnormal way of doing everything. And he goes, so it's. It's natural to me. And he was making a lot of money. He's running a big business. But he said, reading is a challenge. He goes, I'm really glad you put stuff on audiobook, you know? But he goes, it's a workaround. How are we going to do this? And anyway, and my whole spirit has been reformed with the recognition that I have to do things differently than the average person. And that is a secret superpower in business.

[George Campbell]

There's a grit to that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, there's a grit to it. And there's a part of your brain that functions to create workarounds that no one else has. You know, I don't have to do the workarounds he has to do. I can just walk up to it and touch it, you know, but he has to go around the barn three times. And so it's. But it's. There's a lot of data coming out on this that, that's a lot of the reason for the successes, the number of people that are, you know, on the functioning end of the autism spectrum and so forth. And so it's interesting to me that what is perceived as a disability is an ability.

[George Campbell]

There's opportunity there.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's opportunity there. And so to me, that's really encouraging. I've never faced something like that, personally. Faced plenty of other challenges and stupid butt stuff I've done to myself. But when I meet people like that that are like, like they, they bust through whatever it is and become a big deal, you know, it's inspiring. Our friend John o' Leary that was burnt heavily as a child, and the movie just came out, man on Fire, and he's just, he's created an entire career out of telling people they can

[George Campbell]

do something using his story.

[Dave Ramsey]

Using his story. Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family, and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic and you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it all alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system. Accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further, automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster. You're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move, but NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.comramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a NetSuite wrap. That's NetSuite.com Ramsey. If you've got a simple tax situation like you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, use Ramsey Smart, smart, smart Tax. It's affordable, keeps filing really simple and it has built in support in case you do need a little help. Filing early means you get the best deals and you get that tax stress off your shoulders. So as soon as you get all your tax documents, go to ramseysolutions.com smarttax and start filing. And there's not a bunch of gotchas in there like the other people. Like Termitex.

[George Campbell]

It's quote unquote free until you have one extra document and then it stings

[Dave Ramsey]

you and it's $468 million. Then it's like crazy. The little add ons will get you boys and girls. All right, not with us. Hey, David is in Los Angeles. Hey David, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey guys. Thanks so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can I help?

[Caller]

Wanted to ask a question. My wife and I have been given an opportunity to move to Alaska for a job that sounds like it's going to be much better for our family in terms of time getting to spend time together. But I'm a little nervous because it's technically a title lower than the one I'm currently working. I'm wanting to make sure I'm not giving up too much opportunity but also want to improve my family's life in the immediate situation. So trying to get a little guidance on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your field? Why does title matter?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I'm a marriage and family therapist. I'm currently working as a clinical director at a treatment center down here.

[George Campbell]

What's the new title?

[Caller]

So the new title would be a clinical manager rather than clinical director. It does come with a little bit of a pay raise, about $6,000 a year. So nothing too crazy, but just want to make sure that I don't know if it's a horrible idea to be taking a lower title in the long run.

[George Campbell]

Is your cost of living going to be much lower in Alaska versus la?

[Caller]

So it is. Essentially we would be able to live for a bit cheaper out there and we'd be making more money so on.

[George Campbell]

Plus less taxes.

[Caller]

Feels like a no brainer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, it's cold.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's cold though.

[Caller]

It's definitely cold. It'll be a little different.

[Dave Ramsey]

And there's bears. Yeah, but. So I am not an expert on the clinical field. I wish Dr. John Deloney was sitting here with me. Sorry, George. He has a PhD in counseling and he knows all those people. He knows all that stuff.

[George Campbell]

Know the title.

[Dave Ramsey]

My perspective looking in from the outside as a layman is I don't think there's two people on the planet that will notice your title change. I don't think it matters.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've got. I mean, Henry Cloud is one of my best friends. He's a clinical guy, one of the most famous in the world, and others I've known in that world because we've been around that world for 30 years because we deal with so much mental issues around money stuff. So we're become friends with that world. And I have never, in 35 years, I've never had the occasion to go, oh, that guy is a manager, not a director. He runs the dadgum place. Or he doesn't run the dadgum place is the way I look at it. So that's an outsider outside the industry looking in. So I'm not sure how valuable my opinion is, but I personally have never been someone that collects titles. I collect the ability to get things done and get paid for it. And so it sounds like that's what you're doing. You're being a little bit more utilitarian rather than esoteric, right?

[Caller]

That's true, yeah.

[George Campbell]

Are the responsibilities the same?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, responsibilities are essentially exactly the same. I'm still running the place. I'm, you know, I still have the same oversight, just about the same amount of employees.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let's. Let's fast forward, let's try change. Let's put the mock onto the foot for the fun of it. You've been doing this a while. You know the world. So if someday you were a regional director of eight different mental health centers and someone came to you for an interview and they both had done the exact same job, would you care what their title was?

[Caller]

I can't say that I would.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't.

[Caller]

That I would be able to say this is the same thing exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

You would look at it and go, you know, just in Alaska, they named it this, and in la they named it that, and it's the same job description, same duties, same responsibilities. Crud. The Alaska one may have a bigger budget that you're managing. I don't know. I mean, there could be actual more qualifiers. The only other thing I throw out is I would ask for more money. Alaska generally pays a premium to get people to live there.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're getting a little bit of a premium. But I. And I wouldn't just say. I wouldn't ask for a set amount. I would just say, hey, I was talking to my financial counselor and he said he's not sure this is a good idea. Is this the best you can do? And Just see what they say. The worst thing they can say is yeah, that's the best we can do. And you go, okay, I'm coming. Right? Or they go, oh no, we could actually do 20,000 more. And you go, oh, that one silly little question just made me 15 grand.

[George Campbell]

You know, or maybe it's a kind of sign on bonus or extra relocation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't do it with a belligerent personality. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying, just go, hey, I'm just wondering, I know Alaska sometimes pays a premium and is this all you all have in the budget? Is there anything else you can do?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And asking a gentle open ended question, you might be blown away with how much they add to that 6,000. And it's a general negotiating posture to take anyway pokes on anything. Is that the best you can do? And it's like, oh no, I can do a whole lot more. It's like I really want to get rid of this thing.

[George Campbell]

And then you just shut up and let them speak.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let them talk. You don't over talk being really good. Ask a question and shut up. First guy speaks loses. So again, worst case is they say, no, this is the best I can do.

[George Campbell]

Sounds like a fun Alaskan adventure. Let's go.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like, I mean let's do it. Why not? Worst case is you don't like it and it's too cold and you go somewhere else later. Nobody said you had to stay there for 25 years. You're just going up there, take a job. Jordan is in Nashville. Hi Jordan, how are you? Hello. Hi.

[Caller]

Hey Dave, my mom has been listening to you since I was in the third grade and I'm 41 if that makes you feel old.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was already old. I was already feeling old and you helped. Thank you brother.

[George Campbell]

Fossilizing Dave here soon?

[Caller]

Yeah, no, she was, she was on Today briefly, I think before a lot, a lot of people got on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Back when I had hair. Yeah, I got it. Okay. What's up today, man?

[Caller]

I am 41 years old and I have got my house and everything paid off. I don't have any debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mom's brown.

[Caller]

Yep. And I've got a nest egg that I've been saving for a while. And basically what my question was I do have, I am working towards a pension and I'm 15 years in towards retirement on a city pension. And my question is, would you use all the capital I have now to make an investment in a real estate and business that I've been kind of Wanting to do or would you just focus on investing in smart stocks and stuff that will further secure retirement?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, if you're slotting everything, all the chips, the center of the table on one deal, I would not do that. I don't do that. That. But I do buy real estate, and I like real estate. What are you talking about doing?

[Caller]

Well, I've been wanting to do like an event center. I don't want to do an event center in my town and kind of have like all in one where it's kind of a kitchen bar event center for weddings, birthdays, events. And so I've been kind of messing around with that for a couple years in Nashville. Job on the weekends? No, I'm not in Nashville. I live about an hour and a half from Nashville.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Which city? Okay. All right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because in Nashville, I would just tell you there's 26 of them. I mean, you know, it's like, how do you get the next country music stars attention, a waiter, you know, so. But in Cookeville, what's the event centers like there? How many of them are there?

[Caller]

There's a few event centers I was actually want to do in my hometown of Sparta.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now we're getting small. Is there enough population there to support one?

[Caller]

You know, the local, they don't have a whole lot going on, but the local places that they do. For example, since I've been doing events, every time I try to call and book one of these places, they're six months out, they're four or five months out. So it seems like all the rental and venues places are doing well. And then our local bars, there's only a few of them. It seems like they do real well, too, as far as the amount of people that's always in them.

[George Campbell]

What's the cost going to be on this if you did it right?

[Caller]

Well, I've been looking into it. So, like, right now I've got, you know, a pretty good chunk saved up. But the properties I've been looking into, there's a couple different options. There's some out there right now that you could buy. Turnkey ready, pretty much for around 350, 400, which is, I think, really high for our area.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what I would do? I would lease one of them for five years and start your business and run it with the option to purchase it and put a price on it and buy it later if this works. If it doesn't work, you're just a tenant and you ran your lease out. A lease with an option to purchase that reduces Your risk instead of dropping 350 into it, drop 50 into it and let's go trial your dream without it turning into a dead gum nightmare.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cole is in Boise, Idaho. Hi Cole, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. It's really good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey.

So my wife and I are both doctor of Audiology students and currently right now we don't have any debt. We've been following for quite a few years now. And so we've maintained no debt through school, through our undergrad, everything like that. And we are now having to make a decision just because our scholarships have kind of run out. The money that I saved up when I worked and she went to school is running out. And so my question to you is, is would you take on a student loan if it made sense, or would you do all that you can to just not take on any student loans at all? Preface with that. We do have money saved up.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, you're already Dr. Audiology or are you just studying?

[Caller]

So we're studying. So my wife is a third year student going into her fourth year, so she has one year left. And I'm a first year student, so I've got three years left.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how does that world work as far as work goes as a third year student? Can she work in the field while she finishes up?

[Caller]

She is. Both of us are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh good.

[Caller]

Both of us have part time jobs in the field, so we're both working part time or taking advantage of any school scholarships that we can. But I mean what are you making cost about? So we made 50,000 last year, but that was when I was working full time. This year I think we're projected at like 30,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what does it take for her to finish the next year the her last year?

[Caller]

So it's going to cost us 30,000 each? Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you've been able to get scholarships for none of it or what?

[Caller]

For all. For all of it up until now. And so that's where. So she's going to call her externship, so her clinical rotations, so there's no scholarships there. And then I'm in the current application period for scholarships, but nothing's been granted yet. And when I look at the numbers, I'm like, if I don't get any scholarships, we're going to have to make a decision on bip into our savings, take out a student loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much savings do we have?

[Caller]

So I have a, so my wife and I have a brokerage account with 50,000 and then we currently have savings for 20,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if it's worth borrowing for, why is it not worth using your savings for?

[Caller]

No, I agree with that. My wife thinks that we should keep our brokerage account the way that it is because it made us 20%.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we should borrow money on a student loan to put money in a brokerage account. That's dumb.

[Caller]

Well, that's why I called to make sure that I wasn't, you know, misunderstanding.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not misunderstanding. You should pay cash and finish your degree. By the way, this is a license to print money, you know that?

[Caller]

Say that again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Audiology. You're going to do really well.

[Caller]

Oh yeah, well, and that's where what her take is, is that leave everything there, take out the student loan, and then when she gets out is in making 90 to 100,000, we'll just pay it off. Yeah, I have just done everything new and said no debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're gonna pay cash or we're not doing it. We're pay cash or we're not doing it. You have the money? No, we do not borrow money. We do not borrow money on student loans to invest.

[Caller]

Right, well, so then one other question with that. So because I have three years left left, when we get to the point that we would be forced to take out a student loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not. She's gonna be making 90.

[Caller]

Well, right. And so I.

[Dave Ramsey]

She has one year left and then starts cashing checks.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

She can pay for you to finish.

[Caller]

Right. Okay, well, I just, like I said, I wanted to make sure I, I understood that correctly.

[George Campbell]

And so you got 70k. It's gonna cost you 60 for both of you to do another year. Right. So you got 10k left, left. Then she's working. So now we can cash flow the next 30k for you.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So that would be the game plan

[Caller]

option that you would do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, absolutely. 100 times, 0 times I'm going to tell you take out a student loan ever. But particularly in when you've got away at your fingertips to not do it and you're just doing it as a. To keep your investments intact. Which has the same effect of having borrowed money on a student loan to invest it. No, that's.

[George Campbell]

And just because it did 20% last year does not mean that's going to happen again. It could go down this year and then she's going to be real heartbroken.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we could bomb Iran and the stock market could drop.

[George Campbell]

That's a wild thought.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who knew that would happen? All we knew is what was going to happen is all we knew. So yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And to assume that George is right, I mean the last two years 25 and 26 were 23 to 26%. Both of them were incredible years. But that's not normal folks. And you don't, you don't make your decisions based on the 20% rate of return because it doesn't, we don't tell people you're going to get 20% average. We just know what actually happened in the last two years. So no, we're not borrowing student loans. Matthews in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey Matthew.

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

I maxed my 401k out like 3, 4 months left in the year. Put in the 15% in like you guys like tell us it's a good idea to and my company has an after tax account that I can continue to put a percentage of my check in after taxes that rolls into my 401k Roth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have a, do you have a mortgage?

[Caller]

I do have a mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Put it on that, don't put it in the. Pay your mortgage.

[Caller]

That was, that was, that was the only question I had.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It's easy. Yeah. We tell people when you're in baby steps four, five and six, four is 15% of your income going into retirement. Five is kids, college, any other money we can find above living life, well we're going to throw out and pay off the mortgage next because what we found Matthew, the data tells us that the typical millionaire in America and we've done the largest study on them of anybody has a paid for home and a healthy muscle bound 401k account. You're going to have both if you go this route now when the house is paid off you can go back and play some of these other games. You can max out. You can, you know, you get to this year be 24, 5. If you're over 50 you could do or over 60, you could do 11, 250 extra. Do all those kinds of games. I do every bit of that. I do everything I can do. I'm 66 and I'm. But I don't have any debt and hadn't had in 20, 30 years. So I'm just, I just, I'm always maxing that stuff. I don't have any mortgages.

[George Campbell]

It's a baby step 7 item to start exactly going above and beyond all of that. But yeah, you got the backdoor Roth IRA for incomes too high for the normal. And then you get the mega backdoor Roth 401k, which is what he's talking about, where you can do the after tax contribution and an in plan conversion. And we have that at Ramsey. Very few people do it around because

[Dave Ramsey]

they're not baby step seven.

[George Campbell]

But at that point it's a good option to have. But again, to your point, I'd rather have the house paid off first before I'm adding extra to retirement because likely he's going to be a multi, multi, multi millionaire in that retirement account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

So in the meantime, until we get there and can access it, let's have a paid off home

[Dave Ramsey]

because that is an element of the typical data point of the typical person in their first one to $5 million of net worth. Now beyond that, people do other things. They don't borrow to do it. But beyond that, they're doing more than just 401k and a paid for house, other rental properties, they've got businesses, they got other things to run a net worth up above that. But so a backdoor Roth. Explain that, George.

[George Campbell]

So a backdoor Roth, if your income is too high to contribute to an IRA traditional Roth, you can do a backdoor Roth ira, which is when you use after tax dollars contributed to a traditional ira and then you pretty much immediately roll it over, convert it to a Roth ira.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just did mine the other day.

[George Campbell]

Oh, nice. I do it every year before tax season rolls around. Yeah, it's great. And you can do a spousal as well. And so you can now this year, 7,500 bucks. And for you guys, even more.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're old. 85, 86, 8,600 now.

[George Campbell]

It's a good day for that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I just moved another 17,000.

[George Campbell]

That's fantastic.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, and all the growth on that for the rest of my life will not be taxed and it will not be subject to inherited IRA rules. Not taxed to my heirs.

[George Campbell]

So when the grandkids get this money, they're not going, oh, I got to pay taxes on it. Nope, Papa Dave did it for Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Papa Dave done, done a Roth. So there we go.

[George Campbell]

You can thank him now, now.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so everything in my name at 66 or 65 is in a Roth. And so that's the route we're going because it keeps no minimum distributions, no required minimum distributions at 72 and a half, 74 and a half.

[George Campbell]

Statistically, you and Sharon are going to live into your 90s if you made it this far. Well, that's a lot of Time.

[Dave Ramsey]

My plan is well beyond that.

[George Campbell]

I think sheer willpower and spite. Dave will outlive us all. That's my greatest fear.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll be on here spreading hate and dissension long after the rest of you are gone.

[George Campbell]

104 years old, Dave's still in the air.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get out of debt.

[George Campbell]

I've always said he's the Methuselah of personal finance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sell the truck. Welcome to the Ramsey show in the fair winds. Credit Union Studios. Welcome back to the news. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Melissa's in New Orleans. Hi Melissa, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, my question is I'm considering separating my income from my husband. We've been married for 13 over 13 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller]

Well, okay, for the most of our marriage I've been. I started off mostly at home and he went to work, we had babies and I would like, you know, manage the household, manage the finances. He knew he wasn't very good with money and he let me do it. My dad taught me a little bit and my dad even gave me like the, the baby steps book in like our first year of marriage. So now managed it all.

[Dave Ramsey]

So now you want to separate your money. Why?

[Caller]

Well, when I went back to work full time, I'm a school teacher and about five years ago, once our youngest got into kindergarten, well it was actually first grade. But it just got too hard for me to manage, you know, the finances, the household, the children, full time work, especially teaching. And I started asking him like, hey, I like I need help. And I felt like the biggest stress was always managing the money. And that was because we didn't agree on that area. Like I'm always trying to save and I was always trying to, trying to get us out of debt and everything. And he really didn't agree with the Dave Ramsey message.

[George Campbell]

So Melissa, is he misbehaving with money? You haven't answered the question. Oh, what problem does it solve for you to separate your money?

[Caller]

Well, I feel like it would eliminate us fighting if he just spent his money and I did.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it'll cause him to be broke and you to be broke too.

[George Campbell]

He'll drag you down with him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right now you're the only thing holding this together.

[Caller]

But it's just really hard on the marriage. Like if that's like our.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, the money isn't hard on the marriage. The selfishness is hard on the marriage.

[Caller]

But he's, you know, he's worked really hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Call bull. We all work hard. Call the wambulance. He worked really hard. So that gives him permission to constantly be at odds with his wife instead of coming into agreement and deciding on what our future goals are together. Bull. Crap. That's selfishness.

[Caller]

I don't agree with him. And I just.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know that's selfishness.

[George Campbell]

You don't agree to stupidity. And so separating the finances is not going to give you a better marriage. It'll just brush the problem under the

[Dave Ramsey]

rug, makes it worse.

[George Campbell]

It'll separate you guys further.

[Caller]

Okay? Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Cause he's going to burn all of his in the corner, and then you're going to be trying to run the whole family on yours.

[George Campbell]

And then are you going to split expenses and split the mortgage and split the utilities like roommates?

[Caller]

I consider, like, doing, like, you know, I make significantly less than him.

Like, okay, let's try.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's try this. You do not have a money problem. You have a marriage problem. So let's not fix a marriage problem with a money solution. Let's fix a marriage problem with a marriage solution. You guys need to go see a marriage counselor. You need to sit down with your pastor, and it's time for you all to put this marriage together the first time completely that you ever have. Before, you were the mommy taking care of the little boy. Now the little boy's rising up and saying, I want to vote, and I don't agree with everything you're doing. And the two of you can't find a language to reconcile in your relationship on your disagreements. That's not a money problem. That's a marriage problem.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you guys get on the phone and get your marriage counselor booked. And it's not. Sharon and I went to marriage counseling. Melissa. When we had been married 10 years, we've been married 43 now. We went broke when we were seven. At seven years. And so three years later, all the pissed off came to the surface from going broke because we about killed each other. But what we got at marriage counseling was not like, we're broke and you need to fix us. I looked at it as like, I hired a tutorial. I hired a personal trainer to give me skills and knowledge about marriage that I didn't have from the home I grew up in. So I need you to teach me something. To be married as a better husband. I need you to teach her something. So to be married as a better wife and teach us language and processes to get through arguments. Like this and come to a conclusion. And so I just looked at it as I hired a personal trainer, I hired a tutorial, and I'm trying to get knowledge tools in my belt because I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to fix it by myself. And y' all don't know how to fix it by yourself, but it's not separating the money. And you go off to your corner, and he goes off to his corner. That's gonna make it worse. So I would say the two of you, not because you're broken, not because you're all screwed up, but you have some things you need to learn that you've never learned in 13 years about how to talk to each other, how to.

[Caller]

To.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bible says, submit yourselves one to another, how to put the other person first. That's what I was talking about, selfishness. And, you know, I've been doing this 43 years, and it's still hard because I'm still right and she's still wrong. But I told her, if she leaves, I'm going with her. So there you go. But that's it. I mean, you know, it's. It's hard, you know, and to navigate through this, you guys, you and Whitney had a bit of an advantage in that you started out as financial peace test tube babies here.

[George Campbell]

That's right. She worked here at Ramsey. And I thought, if she's good enough to work for Dave Ramsey, she's good enough for me, probably too good for me. And I was right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's true.

[George Campbell]

But, yeah, it was easy. But I have found Dave, people that get married, they're not unified on money, but they go, well, he's just bad with money. Just a personality trait.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then when I start picking on him, she says, oh, he works hard. Oh, give me a pipe.

[George Campbell]

I think he works too hard to be this broke and selfish and childish. So there's one.

[Caller]

Boom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Drop that mic on it. So, folks, here's the thing. What we found in 35, almost 40 years of helping people build wealth, get out of debt so that they can build wealth. Build wealth so that they can change their family tree and be outrageously generous. There's a couple things we're sure of. Very few, if almost none of the married couples that build wealth do it separately. When we did the largest study of millionaires, we said, how many of you work together with your spouse, and how many of you work separate? 83% said, we work together. The general public says, less than 50% says, we'll work Together. But the general public's normal. And normal sucks. It's broke. You don't want to be normal. And so if you want an advantage to building wealth, it's learn to work together with your spouse. Be unified in a desired future, as our friends and Henry Cloud says. And then you say, okay, how does this discussion we're having affect that future? You know, you're wanting to buy something we can't afford, it affects that future. You want to be irresponsible with money, it affects that future. We've agreed that this is the future we want. We've got an agreed upon desired future. Yeah. And anything that affects that negatively, hey, we need to look at it.

[George Campbell]

It's a wealth multiple to be on the same page financially sharing the account. That's just the facts of it, Melissa.

[Dave Ramsey]

All the years of doing this show, your call is the number one call we get. How do I get my reluctant spouse on board with your Ramsey stuff? How do we get agreement in our house? It's the number one call we get.

[Caller]

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that.

That.

And I tell them, sure you can. It's a short term sacrifice for a long term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it. Never having the long term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. Like our Every Dollar budget app. In minutes it'll build you a step by step plan that's tailored to your money situation. And every day it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short term sacrifice, long term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by why refi if defaulted private student loans are wrecking your budget. It's time to deal with them. Why Refi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate payment based on your ability to pay so you can stick to a budget and work the plan. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[George Campbell]

Today's question comes from Nikki in Idaho. What is a dividend stock? My coworker has two houses that are completely paid off by using dividend stocks to increase her income by several thousand dollars per month and then reinvesting that income. Bull. This sounds too good to be true. Is it possible to do this?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a lie.

[George Campbell]

Is she trying to sell you a course on this? Yeah, I mean, you've got to. Let's put it this way. A dividend stock versus a growth stock is just a company using their profit sharing to pay you a little bit instead of reinvesting that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if I own stock at Home Depot and Home Depot makes a profit, they have two options. One is reinvest it back into the company and grow Home Depot and then the value of my stock might grow. Or they can pay the profits out in the form of dividends. A dividend stock is a company that is mature. It's not in a growth phase, it's in a mature phase and they pay out all their profits. So it's an old big dinosaur company like an Alcoa Aluminum, Johnson and Johnson, Johnson and Johnson, Procter and Gamble, okay? This type of thing. So dividend stocks do not have as good a rate of return as regular stock that's growing in a company.

[George Campbell]

You're basically pulling it out. It's not going to grow anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pulling profit out. You're cashing in your chips at the end of the game.

[George Campbell]

You're saying, I'd rather get the money now and not continue letting go.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you didn't, you know, so for instance, if the stock market went up 20% in one year, that is like last year went up 25% in 25. Okay? But there was not a dividend payout associated with that at all. Dividends had nothing to do with that. Dividends were companies made a profit in 2025 and they paid it out or they didn't to their stockholders. So point being, your coworker did not pay cash with the dividends off of a stock. So let me just give you an idea. If you had $100,000 invested, invested and your dividend stock paid out 10%, that'd be $10,000 and that would be a huge, usually it's like 3% massive payout. So for them to get enough to buy two paid for houses, they'd have to have millions of dollars in dividend

[George Campbell]

stocks, which in that regard it didn't happen from dividend stocks, it happened from investing.

[Dave Ramsey]

They got the money somewhere else. So dividend stock Is a dumbed down way to invest. A low risk way to invest.

[George Campbell]

It's not a magic trick. It's just math.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's not even good math.

[George Campbell]

I mean, I'd rather have that money continue to grow.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm worth several hundred million. I'm 65. The number of stocks I have that are dividend stocks are precisely zero. I want a better rate of return

[George Campbell]

than that we've heard you say on air for 30 years now. Good growth stock, mutual funds, not dividend stock.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And the reason is the returns. It's pretty simple.

[George Campbell]

And those dividend income, that's taxable.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let me reread it. What is a dividend stock? We just explained that coworker has two houses that are completely paid off by using dividend stocks to increase her income by several thousand dollars per month. Okay, that did not happen.

[George Campbell]

And then she said. And then reinvesting that income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well that's the income off of the houses.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got the two houses paid off by using dividend stocks. So my point is if you did that, that you either cashed in the stock or you have millions and millions of dollars to buy $100,000 house or $200,000 house. So that's not. Something's wrong that doesn't pass the smell test.

[George Campbell]

You're not going to follow her strategy and do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

At least in this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Still a good question. It's good to educate people on what a dividend stock is. That's why we took the question. And there's nothing wrong with dividend stocks, but it's just an ultra conservative lower rate of return way of messing with the stock market.

[George Campbell]

It just makes you feel good to get that little check in the mail every quarter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And it typically is done by folks that are retired and they would place a chunk of money so that they could get a steady income off of these steady income companies. But again it's a reduced rate of

[George Campbell]

return and it takes a big bankroll to make some serious in order to

[Dave Ramsey]

pay off two houses. You know, there's some something we got a chicken egg problem with this thing with this story. So this is somebody that read something on TikTok and then lied to you. All right. Julie is in Omaha, Nebraska. Hi Julie, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good.

How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I have an interesting question. I am interested in buying a new camper. We currently own one worth about maybe 11 or thousand or 11 or $12,000. But my husband works on the Road out of state for a wind and solar farm company and I'm a stay at home mom with our first son. He's one years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

You live in the camp?

[Caller]

He lives in a camper.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, he lives in the camp.

[Caller]

I live in our home that we own in Nebraska.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how long is he gone? Every day, every week, all the time.

[Caller]

I would say 90% of the year.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he make?

[Caller]

He makes about last year it was I think 80,000. But we had just had our son last year and he took off a great deal of time.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what is your long term plan? What's your long term plan with his career? Because that doesn't sound sustainable.

[Caller]

Right. His father and family work for the company also and they have made a living off of that. His mother owns or his mother's side of the family owns a business here in town. And that's another option that he could work there.

[Dave Ramsey]

But what is his plan to do 10 years today?

[Caller]

Just. I guess it's to make money for our family to be aspire to be millionaires.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's gone 90% of the time and you have a brand new baby. Baby. And he makes, and he makes $80,000 a year and he lives in a camper.

[George Campbell]

So how does a new camper fix this?

[Caller]

Sorry, say that again.

[George Campbell]

How does the new camper fix this? Are you just going to live on

[Caller]

the road with him, live together?

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Oh, and you can't do that in the current camper?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's $11,000. She has a one year old.

[Caller]

No, no, it's a, it's a small camper that has like a bunk bed in the back that is much small for any clothes or anything for him, his, his needs.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So if you buy a $30,000 camper now he has a $50,000 job,

[Caller]

correct? Yeah, that would be true. I do make a small income. It's about $2,200 or $300 a month from the VA I was in for about six years and was medically retired and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you, thank you for.

[Caller]

Okay, I appreciate that. We also make an income from our previous home that we own. It's the mortgage is about minimum 500, we pay 800 and we rent it out for 1350amonth.

[George Campbell]

Where is that home?

[Caller]

Also here in town with us.

[George Campbell]

Okay, if I would simplify your life. Truthfully, I don't know if it's worth, worth keeping this rental with the mortgage on it. And you have a mortgage on your primary home that you're living in, Correct. What's left on the mortgage.

[Caller]

2000. Oh, it's. We just bought it December of the year prior.

[George Campbell]

So are you going to keep this while you live on the road?

[Caller]

That would be the question also. Yeah. I don't know if this is a long term job. If we're going to stay for. How old are you guys so that we can pay it off. We're 26.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Okay. I'll give you a prediction. Five years from the day you're not going to be doing this.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because what, what you're doing, the gypsy life is very strenuous and little babies on the road are, you know, it just doesn't work for most people. Some people do it, but very, very few. There's a reason people have a home and settle in for the mental health of the relationship and the quality of life for the kids and all that. For a short period of time, it's an adventure, but after that, it becomes drudgery. So I think this camper question really comes down to a career question of what's he going to do in the next stage of his life and when's that stage going to begin? Ready, set, go. If it's going to begin sooner rather than later, then no, we don't need to move up in camper. If you move up in camper, you have to pay cash and it's going to become worth nothing by the time you finishes this adventure. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help.

[Caller]

Help.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Well, we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. Some of them we're glad we don't get to. So if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head on over to the website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on the proven Ramsey principles, to say the least. We have a bazillion hours of this show that we downloaded into AI and so it knows how to answer the question exactly the way we would have answered it. You get the same answer we'd give you right here on the show. So ask your question [e-mail] for free or just click the link in the description. If you're listening on a podcast or YouTube, it's here, it's big, and it's popular. Ask Ramsey. Charles is in Fort Myers, Florida. Hey, Charles, how are you?

[Caller]

Dave, how you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Wonderful. Let me tell you about my situation here. So I am 34 years old. I just sold my first home to move back in with my parents. I have about 70 grand sitting in an S and P mutual fund and my 401ks in a good step. And the only debt I have is a car note. What's my next step?

[George Campbell]

Why'd you move back in?

[Caller]

I was originally from Pennsylvania. They moved down to Florida just to get back in with my family. I took a leg off, didn't make the money I was making, so it seems like no better time.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you don't have a job?

[Caller]

No, I currently have a job and I start a new job next in like two weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good. Okay. All right. And so you're debt free, you have money in an S, P. Right, I

[Caller]

have money in an S and P. The only debt I have is a car note.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much do you owe on the car car?

[Caller]

18. 5.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, what we teach is to be debt free and have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then start talking about buying a house.

[Caller]

Okay, so I guess how long should I hang out until I just get real, real aggressive on the car note?

[George Campbell]

I mean, you don't need to be aggressive. I would sell enough from the S&P 500 brokerage account, pay off the car today, cash out more to cover your emergency fund, and then whatever's left becomes your down payment on your house.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you gonna be making at the new gig?

[Caller]

They're quoting me starting anywhere from 70 to like 95. It's commission based sales.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you live there for four or five months and you just try to figure out the neighborhoods and you, you know, and you're just all that kind of thing, that's not the end of the world. They probably like having you around, but I just don't think it's probably a good thing for your personal life and your personal future to be living in mommy's basement at 34 for very long.

[Caller]

I agree. That's why I wanted to see what you would advise.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'll put a time on it. I'd say, you know, 120 days, 90 days. Put a Date on it and say, I'm out by that date. I'm paying off the car today. I'm going to move, like George said, enough over to a money market account. That is three to six months of expenses of what it takes to operate. If you had rent and have that as your emergency fund, then you've got the balance for a down payment and just add to that down payment during that 120 days with this great income. Income and no payments in the world.

[George Campbell]

And don't increase your lifestyle because you get comfortable because you don't have housing expenses. That's what most people do when they move back in with mom and dad is they go, well, I'll save a lot of money by doing that. And then I ask, well, how much have you saved this year? They go, $2,000. I go, well, yeah, that plan sucked. So actually put this amazing income to work by setting it aside for that down payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'd stack another 10 or 20 grand in there right quick during this 120 days on top of what you've got after the car is paid off and after the emergency fund. Fun. And then look for, you know, get you a nice little condo of some kind and get started back out in the real estate world and get, get yourself a place and it could be near mom and dad, you still see them a lot and all that be great. But I would set up a separate life in 90 to 120 days if I were in your shoes. And that's how we answer questions here. If I were in your shoes, what would we do? Ryan is in Virginia Beach. Hey, Ryan.

[Caller]

Hey guys, how you doing? Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, so my wife and I are moving down to Florida in August and I just finished baby step one. I got a side job made next to start listening to your show about a few months ago. Got a side job, made about thousand bucks. Just doing my side gig, made some money. Now I'm wondering if I should start tackling my debt or if I should save up a little bit money for our move.

[George Campbell]

Why you guys moving?

[Caller]

Job opportunity for her and for me. There's actually a lot of opportunity for myself down there as well.

[George Campbell]

And what's the move going to be paying?

[Caller]

Probably a little bit. I haven't calculated the cost of the move yet, but we are going to be paying less in rent and both of us are going to be making more money.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, right now you don't have the money for the move, so we definitely need to save up for that.

[Caller]

Sure. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Before we start tackling more than minimum payments on the day.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, if you pay off debt and you don't have money for the move and it goes in debt, that's was a. You just swapped one, swapped ends, Right?

[Caller]

Sure. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So when is the move?

[Caller]

August.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And do you know ballpark what it's going to cost?

[Caller]

It's probably going to cost three to six grand.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So now we have a goal. Six grand by August.

[Dave Ramsey]

Correct. And how much debt do you have?

[Caller]

18,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. On what?

[Caller]

What? Credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Truck is paid off.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm a golf professional.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so little.

[Caller]

Not in terms of playing, more of coaching.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. And yeah. PGA use and little bit of that going on in Florida. A little bit more than Virginia Beach. Yeah. Probably. Probably land a gig in 30 minutes down there.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Assuming you're any good. And. Okay. Okay. And what does she do?

[Caller]

She works in the hospital field.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

She's an office office director.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you average as a PGA golf professional?

[Caller]

I make. My salary is about 35 a year, but I make probably 34 in terms of lessons compensation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So 75, 80. And you'll probably do better than that in Florida. Yeah. Okay, good.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good, good.

[George Campbell]

So, game plan. Save a thousand bucks a month until the move. And then once you guys are settled in, let's start attacking this debt and knock it out fast. Cause that credit card debt, that the APR on that alone makes you want to throw up.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want your calendar for lesson availability to change today to you're available anytime I want you working all the time.

[Caller]

Got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

All the time. I don't want to pull your calendar up and go, oh, he doesn't work Thursdays. No, you work all the time. You need money.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And go pile you up some money and get enough to cover the move. Figure out, calculate what the move is going to be. Anything above that cost, go ahead and throw it at this debt and just keep working your way. It'd be really cool if you just went crazy and got debt free and had the money for the move.

[George Campbell]

I like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

By August. Wouldn't that be weird? But that's both of you working all the time, and that's what I want to do. So. That sounds cool. Sounds like an adventure. Do it, Ryan. Way to go, man. Eric's in Indianapolis. Hey, Eric, what's up in your world?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

I had just completed baby Step three and was moving on to four, five and six. And I started hearing different personalities talk about sinking funds like for cars or maybe home repairs. And I'm curious if I should be basically growing a larger emergency fund on top of the emergency fund. Start the sinking funds as opposed to or before or during 4, 5 and 6.

[Dave Ramsey]

During 4, 5 and 6 you need some sinking funds that are not an emergency fund. Home repairs are typically a minor sinking fund. Because you're setting aside, you're saying, okay, if we have a $3,000 event this year with a hot water heater or, or a heating and air item or something like that, you know, if we set aside 250amonth, we've got a little money for that. That's a planning a future reasonable thing. You're going to have things like that happen. The dishwasher goes out, washer and dryer blows up, whatever it is, right. And that kind of thing. Car replacement, I don't start that until I see the car into the future. So in other words, I look and say, okay, two years from now we're going to buy a car. Car. Okay, what's the car going to cost? 24,000. All right, it's 24 months. $1,000 a month. Okay, I'm going to do that that way. But if today I don't really see buying a car in the next two years or so, I'm probably not going to do that. But I'm going to do my sinking funds in time to be able to pay cash for whatever I'm going to do.

[George Campbell]

So non negotiable. Invest 15% money. Beyond that, if you want to set up a few sinking funds for things you know are coming up, absolutely do that. You don't need 17 of them eating up all of your take home pay

[Dave Ramsey]

out, you know, saving out 30 years for a roof or something. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would find what you [e-mail] insurance. Proverbs 31, 8 and 9 is our scripture of the day. Speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves. For the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly. Defend the rights, rights of the poor and needy. Benjamin Franklin said, it takes many good deeds to build a good reputation and only bad one bad one to lose it. David is in San Antonio. Hi, David, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. My wife and I are having a discussion. I want to retire in May of this year at 58. She wants me to work for four more years for 1/10 of a percent on my multiplier for my retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, this is a pension.

[Caller]

Well, it's a federal pension. And I'll get. I've maxed out. I'm. I'm basically as high as I can go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what is the pension if you retire now and what is it if you work for more years in money?

[Caller]

$9,100 before any cola right now. If I retire in May, it'll go up to like $9,780 a month if I wait four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you get $800 or more a month if you work four more years.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

For life.

[Caller]

For life. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you would be 62, by the way. Statistically, if you live to be 62 and you're a male, you make it into your 90s. So average death age of 76 no longer applies to these kinds of discussions. So we've got a third. We have a 30 year plus time time horizon on average.

[Caller]

And then that's not even taking into account my TSP or my brokerage account. Our brokerage account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but that's not the point. The only question is, is you're giving up $700 a month, $8,000 a year for 30 years or so.

[Caller]

That is a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that, that's her. That's, that's what she. Is she doing this because she doesn't think you're gonna be able to live on it, or she thinks it's mathematically smart?

[Caller]

She thinks we won't be able to live on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't live on $9,000 a month. What do you all make now?

[Caller]

We make 150, but everything we have is paid for. We can live on it. And then we have plenty of money to pull out if we need to.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you got the tsp. How much is in it?

[Caller]

Almost 3.2 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good God. Okay.

[Caller]

And then there's our brokerage account.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what does the extra eight grand a year do for her that she's going, hey, this is worth you working another four years?

[Caller]

I think it's. She wants me to work because she has to teach for four more years to retire.

[George Campbell]

So that's the real reason.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing to do with the money.

[George Campbell]

So she said, if I have to work, you have to work. You don't get to lay on the couch while I. I'm out here working before.

[Caller]

I. See, I keep telling her jokingly that I started working before you did.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Now, all right, so you have 3.2 million in the TSP. You have $9,100 coming in. In addition to that, you currently make $150. What does she make?

[Caller]

She makes about 72.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much in other accounts other than the tsp?

[Caller]

And then in our Victory Funds account, I've managed to save almost $2.8 million in. In our investment accounts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If neither one of you enjoy what you're doing and you both desire retirement, you should both quit.

[Caller]

That's what I keep telling her because she keeps saying she wants to go on all these trips to Bali and to Africa.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think you should go. I think you should load up the truck and head to Beverly. You ought to do it.

[Caller]

Well, I saved a lot because I grew up really poor.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but you have $6 million if you make an average of 10%, if that's invested in decent mutual funds, that's $600,000 a year. Plus. You have 100,000 plus coming from the government. And I bet you she's got a pension, too. And so you got a 7 or an $800,000 income without touching the $6 million.

[Caller]

That's what I keep trying to tell her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so I think you ought to go to Bali in May.

[Caller]

That's what I'm thinking.

[Dave Ramsey]

For a month. For a month.

[Caller]

Well, thank you.

[George Campbell]

I don't think you guys will be able to spend this money fast enough

[Dave Ramsey]

to even run out if you sit down. You need to sit down with your financial advisor and unpack all this and show that if this is all invested, what the income it's going to be throwing off without even touching the nest egg. Just living off of the income, only where you would be. And it's going to blow.

[Caller]

I will make an appointment with our wealth advisor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And both of you sit down and let him or her say, here's the math. Not emotion, not I grew up poor, so I think one way. But here's what the math says. The math says you can spend $500,000 a year and your investments will continue to grow.

[Caller]

I think that's another concern. She wants to leave something for our children.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you probably are going to, unless y' all start doing cocaine or something. I think you're Gonna have plenty of money.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Are they grown and successful on their own without you guys?

[Caller]

Oh, yes. We've gotten them out of college. They all have careers on their own. Our daughter is a nurse anesthetist, and our.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's making 400. Oh, my gosh. You guys are killing it. I'm so proud of y'. All.

[Caller]

210, but she's doing good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Way to go, David. This is awesome.

[George Campbell]

I think both of you need to loosen up and go enjoy some of this money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's time you lived like no one else. Now it's time to live and give like no one else. There's no reason for you all to work unless you are enjoying it, and it's what you want to do with your life. That's why I work, but I haven't worked in years because I needed money. Years. Decades. So I work because I like doing this, and then sometimes I like being gone. And I'm gone.

[George Campbell]

You're good at that, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm good at that, too. I've got them both down. Got it dialed in, baby.

[George Campbell]

I love it. That's a good lesson, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, David. Tyler's in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Tyler, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. I'm calling because I'm just trying to make the right decision here. I got three properties. One's my primary residence. That's about 350. I got another one that's a rental, producing about 500 bucks a month in cash flow. And then I have another one that's an Airbnb trying to. That one's breaking even. And I'm trying to decide, trying to work towards baby step number two. And we're doing that with my wife's student loans. And I'm just trying to figure out if I should sell these houses, make somewhere in the realm of like, a hundred plus grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

The two houses that you don't live in.

[Caller]

Everything. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much do you have in debt? That's not mortgage debt.

[Caller]

I have about 70 grand in my life, student loans, and 20 grand on a truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you'd sell two rentals, an Airbnb that's breaking even. Another one's making 500 and be 100% debt free and have your household income and be working your system to build cash. Build it to pay cash for your next rental properties somewhere out in the future. Would that be a plan?

[Caller]

That might be a good plan. It seems a scary venture to sell an asset or something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, let me just tell you, owning an Airbnb that breaks even. As big a pain in the butt as those things are to manage. Breaking even on that does not sound appealing.

[Caller]

Not even remotely.

[George Campbell]

That's a lot of headache and stress on top of 100 grand in debt. So I would definitely sell these, clear the debt, get an emergency fund, and then just move slower next time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And just pay cash as you go. And let's get your house paid off. And you say. I'm going to guess and say you're

[Caller]

in your 20s, 31, done a lot or been in the military for the past 10 years. Finally got out, moved on to a bigger, better career, and it was a great investment at the time. Got it under Covid time and right before COVID and they've only appreciated. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can make some money on it and clear up everything. And now you got no payment in the world and just stack cash and start talking about how we can get the mortgage paid off and pay cash for some rentals in the future. That's what I did, Tyler and I pay cash for everything. And it has been a wonderful life building a portfolio of paid for real estate estate. And I can't recommend it enough. And it sounds like you're good at it and you like it. Except for that Airbnb part.

[George Campbell]

Now you don't have to clean up after the next bachelor party. That sounds nice, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that just grossed me out.

[George Campbell]

Sorry, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

That.

[George Campbell]

I'm just saying, that's who's booking these Airbnbs.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't even want to know about it.

[George Campbell]

I don't want.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know nothing. Wow. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace Christ Jesus.