Your Payments Are Keeping You From the Life You Want

Summary

---

The Ramsey Show (May 22, 2026)

Episode Summary: "Your Payments Are Keeping You From the Life You Want"

Overview

In this episode, hosts Jade Warshaw and George Kamel fielded live calls from listeners facing urgent and real-world financial challenges—from tackling payday loan cycles and overwhelming student debt to figuring out how to manage unexpected family burdens and make wise choices around cars, homes, and education. The recurring message? Monthly debt payments drain your financial potential and are keeping you from the freedom and life you truly want. Listening to people's stories, the hosts offered guidance grounded in empathy, practical budgeting, and the Ramsey "Baby Steps" approach, urging listeners to address the root causes of their financial stress and to keep the journey personal, intentional, and teamwork-oriented.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Escaping Payday Loan Traps

[00:58–09:19]

• Caller: James from Riverside, CA.
• Situation: Has 10 payday loans (4 storefront, 6 app-based), totaling ~$2,500, plus an underwater car loan.
• Insight: Payday loans' interest rates are crippling (300–600% APR). They create a cycle—borrow, pay exorbitant fees, fall short, borrow more ("whack-a-mole").
• Guidance:
  • Delete payday loan apps.
  • Stop borrowing—"Never touch this hot stove again."
  • Focus on budgeting and tracking income.
    • "Plug in minimum payments to your budget. Find your margin."
  • Use the debt snowball: target smallest loan first, then move up.
  • Aggressively increase income (side hustles, extra work).
  • Quote: "You cannot solve the problem of debt by going into more debt." (Jade, 08:54)

New Beginnings and Budgeting for Young Couples

[11:12–20:05]

• Caller: Jeb, 24, from Columbia, SC; soon to be married, wants to avoid debt and budget wisely.
• Situation: Mortgage-like loan from family, minimal to no consumer debt.
• Guidance:
  • Save an emergency fund: 3–6 months of expenses.
  • Discuss and merge finances clearly once married.
  • Keep all financial plans transparent with your partner.
  • Follow Ramsey’s Baby Steps—order matters.
  • Live below your means for maximum wealth: "Learn to live off $35k; when you make $70k, you'll be stacking some cash!" (George, 20:05)

Student Loan Debt: Pay Off or Invest?

[22:20–32:12]

• Caller: Erica, pharmacist, $192,000 in student loans at 3.1% interest.
• Dilemma: Aggressively pay off loans or invest to offset interest?
• Insight:
  • "The fastest way to offset interest is to pay down the principal, not rely on market investments that could fluctuate." (George, 23:29)
  • Life is "on hold" with massive debt—focus on getting rid of it before investing further.
  • Seek ways to reduce living costs and/or increase income: "Live like a broke college student while you clean up the mess."
  • Pause retirement investing temporarily to attack debt full force.

Manual Underwriting for Mortgages

[33:29–37:22]

• Caller: Tabitha from Nashville, paid off student loans, no credit score, curious about manual underwriting.
• Guidance:
  • Manual underwriting is for people with no credit score—not just a low one.
  • Requirements: documented rent and utility history, steady income, and a solid down payment.
  • Will need to wait 6–12 months after closing all accounts for score to vanish.
  • "People may look at you like you’re crazy, but you’re just ahead of the curve." (George, 36:26)

Stork Mode: Debt & New Babies

[37:23–41:31]

• Caller: Madison, Charlotte, NC—pregnant, remaining debt, worried about pausing payoff efforts.
• Guidance:
  • In "stork mode," pause aggressive debt payoff; save as much as possible for baby and health expenses.
  • Prioritize the out-of-pocket max on health insurance.
  • Once mom and baby are safe, use extra savings to attack debt.

Should I Go Back to School for a More Fulfilling Career?

[44:21–52:33]

• Caller: Jacob, considering quitting well-paying job for purpose-driven career (school counseling), worried about education costs while still in debt (Baby Step 2).
• Guidance:
  • Don’t take on education debt; cashflow any additional schooling after completing Baby Step 3 (emergency fund).
  • Find the most affordable program—avoid expensive "brand name" schools.
  • Consider spouse’s earning potential and whose career to prioritize first.
  • "It’s not selfish to want fulfilling work, but do it with a smart, stepwise plan."

Home Ownership Nightmares & Family Boundaries

[66:25–75:22]

• Caller: Jennifer, forced to move in and financially support grandfather after family disputes.
• Warning:
  • Don't derail your own future for another adult's lack of planning or overspending.
  • It's okay to say "no" to taking on another generation's financial responsibilities—especially when it's due to bad money habits, not actual inability.
  • "You have every right to say no. You’re not a failure or unloving for choosing boundaries.” (George, 69:47)

Using Home Equity/HELOCs for College or Debt

[108:16–113:27]

• Caller: Grace, single mom, tempted to use a HELOC to pay for kids' college.
• Warning:
  • A home equity line of credit is "just a credit card attached to your house."
  • Don't convert unsecured education debt to secured debt that could cost you your home.
  • Multiple paths to debt-free college: community college, scholarships, part-time work, and honest family discussions about cost.
  • Mom guilt is real, but “the ability to pay for college is a privilege, not a parental obligation.”

Sinking Funds, Emergency Fund Etiquette, and Retirement Disagreements

• Sinking Funds ([97:09–98:59]): Use separate savings accounts or labeled buckets for big goals (like cars or house projects), track contributions monthly—don’t mix with emergency funds.
• Emergency Fund for Planned Purchases ([87:08–95:15]): Emergency funds are for true emergencies only (urgent, necessary, unexpected), not planned purchases like cars. Save separately for those.
• Marital conflict over retirement ([99:00–106:12]): Partners at odds—one invests, other plans to rely solely on Social Security.
  • Honest conversations about goals are necessary, as is possible marriage counseling.
  • Social Security is not sufficient for a secure retirement: “It will only replace about 40% of your income, if it’s even around.” (George, 100:16)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You cannot solve the problem of debt by going into more debt."
  – Jade, [08:54], referencing payday loan cycles and HELOCs.

• “No one can get out because the loan grows. It’s just whack-a-mole.”
  – George, [02:50], on payday loan traps.

• “If you saved it up once, you can save it up again."
  – Jade, [60:11], encouraging a caller nervous about using savings to pay off debt.

• "I wouldn’t even touch Lean Cuisine now. I have debt-free PTSD."
  – George, [41:37], sharing how aggressive sacrifice creates lasting behavior change.

• “A coin toss or a thumb war would be my favorite options”—on deciding who moves in with who after a baby arrives.
  – George, [119:12]

• “The only way out is to be more aggressive than the debt.”
  – George, [08:31]

• “You have every right to say no. That doesn’t mean you don’t love grandpa. You’re just not signing up for dysfunction.”
  – George, [69:47]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:58 – James’ payday loan struggle, budgeting, and debt snowball
• 11:12 – Budgeting, saving, and baby steps for young couples
• 22:20 – Erica’s student loan dilemma: pay off vs. invest
• 33:29 – Mortgage manual underwriting process explained
• 37:23 – Expecting a baby? Stork mode and financial preparedness
• 44:21 – Should you change careers before finishing Baby Step 2?
• 66:25 – Multigenerational financial boundaries and protecting your future
• 87:08 – Emergency fund rules: what counts as an emergency?
• 97:09 – Setting up and managing sinking funds
• 99:00 – Spousal conflict over saving for retirement
• 108:16 – Never use home equity/debt for kids’ college—use alternative strategies

---

Quick Takeaways

• Budgeting is foundational: Tracking every dollar can expose hidden leaks in spending.
• Attack debt with urgency: Use the debt snowball, prioritize income, and don’t be afraid to pause for big life events.
• Don’t finance with your home: Danger lurks in using your house to fix other financial holes—whether for college, cars, or paying off other debt.
• Boundaries with family: Other adults’ lack of preparation isn’t your emergency. Set clear limits.
• Communication is key in relationships: Honest financial discussions, pre-marriage or early on, can prevent years of misalignment and resentment.
• Invest, but in order: Baby steps matter—handle emergencies and debt first for peace of mind and long-term wealth.

---

Final Wisdom

"Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, for each one should carry their own load."
– Galatians 6:4-5 [117:58]

---

This episode reinforced that every financial journey is personal, but the path to freedom is systematic: track, plan, attack debt, embrace teamwork—and don’t believe the myth that payments are just “part of life.” Your payments are stealing your future—take your life back, one intentional step at a time.

Transcript

[A]

This is an ad for BetterHelp. May is mental health awareness month. And when life feels overwhelming, therapy can help you slow down, think clearly, and move forward. Visit betterhelp.comramsey to get 10% off. Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[B]

Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the. From the Ramsey network in the Fair Ones credit union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Camel taking your calls for the next three hours. Triple 882-55-5225 is what will get you on the line, and we hope that you do choose to call in because we'd love to hear from you. All right, George, you ready to do this?

[C]

Game on.

[B]

James is in Riverside, California. James, you are on the line. How can we help today?

[D]

Hello.

[E]

I was calling in. I watch you guys show a lot. I watch George's YouTube channel. I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to pay off payday loans. Ooh, I have 10 altogether.

[B]

That's a monster. My goodness.

[E]

I've seen someone call in about them, but never this many.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

How did you. Let me just ask. How did you get in a situation where you were needing to go to these places 10 different times?

[E]

I had some car troubles a couple, maybe a little over two years ago, and I needed to pay rent, so there was one down the street from me. So I seen it, and I walked in there to try to get a loan, and they gave me that man. And then it spiraled into getting behind again. So I got end up getting another one, then another one. So there it's four. Four payday loans where I walk into a store and do it. And then I got stuck with the ones on the apps on the phone, so I got six of those.

[C]

Have you deleted these apps? Like, I know you're still paying on them, but I'm scared you're gonna go get an 11th one.

[E]

That's right. Yeah. No, I got. Yeah, me too. I got all the ones I could possibly get.

[B]

So for listeners listening, we hate payday loans because most people, they're borrowing somewhere from 100 to $1,000. Right? These are small loans, but they're usually due in a very short period of time. Sometimes they're doing two weeks, sometimes they're doing four weeks.

[C]

But the main kicker, the next payday. Yeah, where you get the name the

[B]

main kicker is, guys, the.

[F]

The.

[B]

The interest rate, the APR on these is anywhere between 300 and 600% many times.

[C]

But they don't know that because it's just a fee. Oh, it's a $45 fee.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

To get this small loan. And when you actually factor in what that's costing you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

No one can get out because the loan grows.

[B]

It just grows.

[C]

And by the next payday, you don't have enough to cover it. So you go take out another one.

[B]

Right.

[C]

It's just whack a mole. So that's where James has found himself.

[B]

You borrow 500, you add the $75 fee, and now you owe 575. Like that's bananas. So, James, how much do yours total? Do you fall in line with this or tell me what yours.

[E]

I want to break them down.

[B]

I'd love that.

[E]

The four. The four that I go to in store, they let you borrow maximum 255, but I have to pay them back 300. So every weeks I gotta pay that. So that's about 190 every two weeks. So almost 400 just on those two a month.

[G]

Wow.

[E]

And then the phones, the phone ones, I.

[H]

Let me see.

[E]

I got it written down. The phone ones are just different numbers. The smallest one is a hundred, And I pay $5 in interest for that every two weeks. And then the next one is 300, and I paid $13 in interest. Next one is 350. I paid 1050 in interest. The next one is 240 and I pay 35 in interest. And then the next one is 250, and I paid 19 in interest.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. That is.

[C]

So what's the total balances of all these 10 payday loans?

[E]

If I would pay them all off today? Yeah, the four are 1200 and then the other are 12, 13, 50.

[C]

So, okay, about $2500 would clear these.

[E]

Yeah, it's about 2500.

[C]

And do you have any money in the bank right now?

[E]

I don't. I try to, like, listen to your guys's steps, like, save up a thousand. I tried that twice. I think this is such high interest, I should pay these off. But, like, I saved up a thousand twice and ended up emergency come up, so I would use that.

[B]

I think, James, that the baby step is not the issue. I think it's your income that's the issue. Because obviously not having the money for car repairs, whatever's going on with the vehicle is what caused you to get into this mess in the first place. And that's also the thing that's holding you back from getting the thousand Dollars saved and being able to hold onto it. So I, I'm hearing two issues. I'm hearing a cash flow issue, so an income issue. And I'm also hearing a lack of financial planning issue, which sounds like a budgeting issue. So let's talk about those two things. Do you have a budget? And also I want to know how much are you bringing in every month as income?

[E]

I make about a little over 4,000amonth.

[B]

And is it just you?

[E]

I have a girlfriend also and two kids.

[B]

Okay, girlfriend and two kids. And you guys are all living together? It's one household.

[I]

Yeah.

[E]

Apartment.

[B]

Okay. Is she contributing financially or no?

[E]

Yeah, she goes. She basically covers all the, like the lights, gas, food, and she goes half with the rent with me.

[B]

So why is I cover. Why is there a huge issue? Because if I'm hearing somebody who is in a shared financial situation, you've got 4,000amonth, you're splitting rent. She's covering all the basic utilities. Where's your money going? Tell us, tell us more. Tell us about all your other debt.

[E]

No, other. I just have one credit card. I pay every month. I have storage, phone bill. Then another big problem I was gonna bring up next is I have a car loan that I'm underwater in. How much I'm also behind on.

[C]

Do you still own that car?

[E]

Yeah, I still have it. I'm about 12,000 underwater.

[B]

What's it worth?

[E]

It's worth about 8,000.

[B]

Okay, so you owe ten and a half, 20?

[E]

Yeah, I owe about 19.

[C]

What's the payment on that?

[E]

Payment's five hundred and thirty.

[B]

Yeah, that's messing with you.

[E]

Yeah, I just realized just about a month ago that's why I gave you guys a call, so that I was behind a lot. And I didn't know that the. It's like a big fee of interest when you're late also on top of the other interest. So it was basically like a little over 150 in late fees every month occurring.

[B]

What about your rent? What are you guys paying in rent? Because still I'm wondering where this money is going.

[E]

It's 1800.

[B]

That's your half or that's the full amount.

[E]

That's the full rent.

[B]

Okay. So yeah, we've definitely got to find out where your money's being spent. So second question. Do you have a budget? I'm guessing no.

[E]

I tried the budget with the app, but it's just so confusing with all these other fees and other stuff.

[B]

Okay, so what I want you to do, I want you to give it Another shot, because I think you just need a little help tweaking it when it comes to the fees and everything. Just plug in the minimum payments. That's all you need to do. There's a section, you list all of them out, it'll ask you what the minimum payment is that you pay. Just fill that in. And then from there we can figure out how much margin you actually have, because I think that you have more than you think you have. And then we can see a full number, because the way we want you to tackle this is with the debt snowball, which means you're only paying minimum payments on everything. And then smallest to largest, we're taking the very smallest debt and all of our extra money goes on the smallest debt. So therefore, while it's going to feel like the others are struggling, because they are, and you're going to feel it because these are payday loans, you're just going to see the balance go up temporarily, but you're going to feel great when you knock these payday loans down from 10 to 9 and from 9 to 8 and you're just going to have some stupid tax that you're going to feel in way of interest.

[C]

But the key here, James, is you need to throw more money at it than the balance is accruing, which means you need to get aggressive. That next paycheck needs to go mostly towards these debts so you can stop playing the shell game and whack a mole. That's the only way out, is you got to be more aggressive than they are. And then, you know, never touch this hot stove again. Delete these apps, never walk into one of those stores you drive by and say, that's a past version of James. Never again.

[B]

And you're probably going to need to pick up a couple of side hustles. You're going to have to work extra to get this done quickly.

[C]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[A]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[C]

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance.

[C]

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work, so it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[A]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[C]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[A]

I've trusted Jeff, Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family.

[C]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[A]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[B]

All right, back to the phone lines we go. Where we have Jeb, who's in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey, Jeb, you're on the line. How can George and I help out?

[I]

My question is, I'm 24 years old and I am fixing to get married in November and I make 35,000 a year. And I was wondering, how can I make it a good budget and how can I be and only debt I have is to my house payment. And what's the good way to stay on top of that where I ain't living paycheck to paycheck?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. I love that you're thinking ahead. I love that you have no consumer debt. What about the lady in waiting? Does how do her finances look?

[I]

You don't have no debt either.

[B]

Okay, great. And does she work?

[I]

He does. He works.

[B]

What does she make

[I]

right now if you work? She probably makes in a month right now at her job. But she's gonna be switching jobs right now. At the job she's at right now, she probably makes 800amonth.

[C]

Okay, and what does she do and what will she be doing? You said she's switching jobs.

[I]

When she puts jobs, he's gonna be working at a coffee shop.

[C]

Okay. I mean, she's making like less than minimum wage right now if she's working full time. So that part scares me.

[I]

Oh, no, no. She ain't working. She's part time working right now.

[C]

Okay, got it. And once she's working full time, what will she be doing?

[I]

You'll be working at coffee shop. And they told her with her experience is that she'll be probably making around 16 to $20 an hour at the coffee shop.

[C]

Okay, great. That's closer to 40 grand a year. Wonderful. And what are you doing for work?

[I]

I am, I am a part time load carrier for the post office. I got two more years before I can go full time.

[B]

Two more years. Okay, and then, then you'll be making what, 70, right?

[I]

Around 70. And then as the years keep going, making a little bit more and more and more as the time goes on.

[B]

Okay, that's good. I love that. All right, so the key here is to stay out of debt and to continue to build wealth in the process. So you're probably familiar that we teach a plan that's called the baby steps. And there's seven of them. And the idea is to get your throughout the seven baby steps to get your money working for you, to build wealth so that you can live like no one else and be generous and all of these things. Correct. So you guys are partially there because you don't have any consumer debt. The question is, do you have any money saved

[I]

right now? I'm trying so I wouldn't be in debt like my. I'll tell you the story quick. The house was given to me. It was my grandma, when she passed away, she gave it to me. And then my parents said, you know what, y' all starting out new, so y' all won't be in debt. We'll go in there and we'll remodel the house for y'. All. Y' all just pay us back for they not. We only have to pay the whole loan back to them. We only gotta pay for 10 years. A thousand a month?

[B]

$1,000 a month for 10 years. And is there any way that you can pay that off early? Are they open to you basically doing the calculation on that and saying, we want to get out of this early.

[I]

I mean, I can if I, you know, I mean, like we can afford it. I would love to pay. Pay it all quick as I can.

[B]

Okay. And that would be my goal. Do you guys love the house? Do you plan on staying there for a while?

[I]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And you're saying there's no mortgage, it's paid off, but you basically have $120,000 loan attached to it to family?

[I]

Yes. Well, yeah, yeah. To the family thing. Yeah.

[C]

Okay. At a thousand bucks a month. So the goal would be instead of waiting 10 years for that to get paid off through the minimum payment of a thousand bucks, can we throw 2,000 at a 3,000 at it and get this thing done even faster? Yes, because Thanksgiving is going to be awkward, I'll tell you that much. Because they're going to see you guys on the honeymoon, going on vacation. And if you go, hey, money's tight this month. Can't pay the thousand or, man, it's been nine years. We need the money now because they might have a health problem or want to retire and go, man, we're kind of regretting making this 10 year loan drag out.

[B]

And just to be clear, they are willing to hand over the deed once you've paid it. It's not just we're talking here like they're actually going to give you the deed.

[I]

This what they said, this is the deal. They said since I'm part time, they said as soon as I get full time in two years, they would put the house in my name.

[C]

Okay. Is any of this in writing?

[I]

Yes.

[B]

The question I have though, okay, so when the house is in your name, what's the actual mortgage payment? Not what they're charging. What's the actual payment?

[I]

I still be paying the thousand.

[C]

I understand you're saying it's paid off

[I]

until I get it paid off, but they would have the house in my name. It'll be just like the house will be in my name and I'll just keep paying them the thousand.

[B]

Right. But the clarity that I want is, is there an actual mortgage on the house or are they just charging you that money?

[I]

No, no, no. There's no mortgage date. My dad just retired and he took the money out of his retirement to redo the house.

[C]

That's kind of scary. How much does he have in retirement?

[I]

Yep, over 300,000.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

That's a pretty big chunk to take out for these renovations.

[I]

Not. No, no, no. I'll tell you about over. He has over a million in retirement.

[B]

Oh, so he's fine. Okay. So. So back to you and your fiance. I, I love this for you. I think it's very generous that they're doing that. And so like I said, the goal is to continue to live that debt free lifestyle. I want to make sure you have savings today. Do you and your fiance, when you guys get married in November, if you combine your savings together, how much money will that be?

[G]

I.

[I]

Let's see if I combine it because I'll tell you this, I got a savings account out of mind. I just opened up this pass month, $250 is going into a pay period.

[B]

Perfect. Okay, great. So the goal for you guys is to save up six months of expenses. So in your budget, which we're going to gift you every dollar for your wedding present, I want you to look at your month and say, what does it cost to make our month go? Does it take $3,000? Okay, let's multiply that by six. We need $18,000 to make this thing go. Lock that in, put it in a high yield savings account somewhere that it's liquid but that it's not with your normal month to month checking account. And that's going to be your three to six months. That's baby step three. And then once that's done, you guys can start investing. Baby step four, you can put 15% of the amount that you make before taxes. I want 15% of that to go to retirement. You and if you have a 401k through the post office, you want it to go into your, your employee sponsored account. So your 401k, if you don't have that, you can put it into a, a Roth IRA and do that. And I want your wife to do the same thing. And even now as she's your fiance, I want her to start doing that if she's to that point already. So now you're investing, now you're starting the process of building the wealth and then from there on you can continue the baby steps. Baby step five, obviously you're putting away for kids, college. And then baby step six, which you guys are going to be fast. That's when you start hacking away at this $120,000 like George said, maybe doubling up and doing $2,000 a month instead of 1,000.

[I]

I tell you this, I, I talked to one y' all Mark Flow people and I am, I just, I'm in the process of open up a lost IRA and a brokerage account.

[H]

Good.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Good for you.

[C]

Smartvestor Pro. That's fantastic that you connected with one. And I wouldn't, here's the thing, I wouldn't put money into that until you have that emergency fund.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

And that might not be until the wedding because what happens is you go invest all this money and now you don't have any and the H Vac goes out in this house and you're on the hook and now you're trying to go 10 grand into debt to cover the new H Vac. So that's why the emergency fund is so important. It is your never go into debt Again, insurance plan. So you guys open up.

[I]

I opened up the savings account was just so as out of sight, out of mind. I'm not going to touch that money unless I need it. Like an emergency fund.

[C]

Yeah. Break in case of emergency. And that means it's unexpected and it's necessary.

[B]

That's right. And you guys should aim for, if I were you, somewhere between 15, 18,000 is probably a really good number for you. Again, I wouldn't combine finances until you guys are married in November, but you should be having these conversations and you should be talking about it. You should have full transparency into what she's doing financially and vice versa until you do get married. And then everything is combined together. One checking account, one high yield savings account. You can add her as the beneficiary on your 401k. She can do the same on, on hers. And that way everything is all together. And listen, I'm pulling for you guys. This is, this is exciting. I think that you're in a really, really good position. You've got a, you know, an uptick on your careers. You're in a good place with the home. Congratulations.

[C]

Yeah. If you can learn to live off of your 35 grand. When you make 70 and you keep living like this. Oh, yeah, you're going to be stacking some cash and building some serious wealth. Multimillionaires is what you'll be. I just crunched the numbers for you. Even at 67,000 household income, if you invest 15% of that from 24 to 64, you're looking at over 5 million bucks. Wow. So it's simple. And that's if you guys never get a raise, you don't both grow in your careers, which is highly unlikely.

[B]

That's right.

[H]

Foreign.

[F]

Hey, guys. Healthcare is one of the biggest stress points in your budget. It's confusing and most of the time it feels completely out of your control. But there is a better way to handle it. Christian Health Care Ministries isn't health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry where Christians share each other's medical bills. And it's not a new idea. CHM has been around since 1981. It's predictable and proven. And they've shared over $13 billion in medical bills for their members. Plus, you get more flexibility. There are no network restrictions, and you don't have to wait for open enrollment. Now let's talk about how CHM helps your budget. Because programs start at just $115 a month, and many families save hundreds of dollars a month compared to Traditional options. So if you are tired of feeling stuck, check out Christian Healthcare Ministries. Right now, CHM is offering new members a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Go to CHMinistries.org budget and use promo code RAMSEY. That's CHMinistries.org budget and Use promo code RA.

[B]

Erica is in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Erica, how can we help today?

[G]

Hi, thanks for taking my call. So I am a single female living in Philadelphia. I'm a pharmacist and I graduated with a ton of student loan debt. So at this point I am wondering how I can get this amount down or if I should invest instead to offset the compound interest on it. So I guess my question is, do I pay down the student loan debt or do I put more in investment?

[B]

Okay, how much debt are we talking about? Not that it changes my answer. I just want to know.

[G]

Yeah, student loan debt is right around 192,000.

[B]

192. And what's your income now that you're a pharmacist?

[G]

Currently, post taxes, I make 5,782 per month.

[B]

Okay. Do you happen to know what the interest rate is on those student loans? Ballpark. If it's not the same for all of them?

[G]

Yeah, it's 3.1%.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[C]

So to your question, offsetting the compound interest. The best way to offset the interest is to pay more than the minimum payment, to throw as much as you can at it, to knock down that principle, because 3% of 100,000 is a whole lot less than 192,000. So the faster you knock these debts out, the less interest you're going to pay. And that's a guaranteed rate of return, that three point, you know, 2% versus investing it with market volatility. You could lose money one month, make a little one month. But you're much better off knocking out all these debts because your life is on hold until you repay these lenders. It's going to be really hard to do all the things you want to do in life. Get married, get a house, have kids, whatever it is, go on vacations. When you have all these payments stacked up every month. What are the minimum payments currently due for that? 192 grand.

[G]

Currently it's sitting at 1300 per month.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's a high payment. I, I, I tend to agree with George on this for similar reasons. But also I would just add on, you know, I think that there's, you're not the only one who feels that way who thinks, hey, I could Just pay the minimums and anything extra, I can invest that money and I'll feel great because I'll have $300,000 sitting in investments or I'll have half a million dollars. But you also have to consider that if you did that for a five or ten year span, that student loan is still accruing. And even if you did invest, and even if you did have $300,000 sitting there, that's your money. Now, the student loan that started at 191,000 is now creeping up to, you know, 270,000, 275,000. And you have to ask yourself, oh my gosh, that's not gonna feel like the freedom that I thought it would feel like. And I've painted this picture before, but it helped me and my husband when we had 90,000 left and the payment wasn't very high. And we thought, you know what, we don't need to pay this off. We can live with this. But it feels like, it's like what I liken it to is being inside of a beautiful home. The home is beautiful. It's everything you wanted. As long as you're in there, everything is great. But the minute you open the door, you realize you are right the edge of a cliff. And it's like a California cliff at the edge. You know, if the house falls off, you are just tumbling into the abyss. And that's the way it feels on the inside is I still have this debt attached to me. And you know what I'm talking about. I mean, you feel it every time when you lay in the bed at night. So that's kind of, you know, a more emotional take on it. And I think it's worth it because, you know, our, our body does keep the score in these, in these situations.

[G]

Yeah, absolutely. I think maybe the only issue that I find because I do have my own budget, is what's left over after all of my expenses. And what makes it even tougher is being single and not living with somebody, being the only person contributing to rent in big city. And I did at one point make very large payments, and it helped a lot. And then, you know, switching to different jobs, moving to a different city, being single again because I used to be married, it just makes it a lot harder. Yeah, so this, this is the tough part, isn't that like, we're trying to look for that extra income to be able to live there? Because all I'm doing right now is surviving.

[C]

Well, what does the trajectory for you look like as a pharmacist? Because if you're bringing home, you know, what is it, 69 grand a year, that's probably around 100 grand gross in a high cost of living area. So how do we get you to be making 150 as a pharmacist? Because that would really speed this up.

[G]

Absolutely. So right now that's kind of what I'm looking towards. It's the market within pharmacy is a little tough and but I do have some future plans on finding a job that probably the market in Philadelphia is right around, I would probably say about 140 that really. So that would be as a pharmacist like a good salary that you can make. Now I, I'm looking for other options too that can help me make more because right now what I'm making is not just, is not enough.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[G]

So I guess maybe that's the answer.

[C]

Well, at this rate, what is? You're just feeling hopeless because making these minimum payments, it's going to take you a lifetime to pay the student loans off. And until you can throw, you know, three grand a month at the debts, four grand a month, it's not going to feel like there is any, you know, hope in sight or light at the end of this tunnel. But I'm doing the math here, going all right, if you can throw 3200 of these debts every month, you're done in five years and that's if you don't get a raise now that's tough. Obviously you're in a high cost living city. What is your rent every month?

[G]

Currently it's right around 15 or 1600amonth.

[C]

Okay, could you get a two bedroom and rent with a friend, Get a roommate.

[G]

So next year I'm planning on renting for my friend who owns a home in Philly and it will be with a roommate. So, so I'm this, that 15, 1600 is one bedroom, one bath.

[C]

Okay, so what would your rent go down to?

[G]

I'm not sure. She would probably work with me. I would say she would probably help me get to like maybe 1400.

[C]

Oh, that's not much savings. I was hoping you were going to say like 1,000 bucks or something. Like, all right, we saved 500 bucks a month. This is worth it.

[B]

Well, when you pass it along through utilities and maybe food, I don't know how much you would share. There might be something there if you guys, you know.

[C]

But if you could get a two bedroom for two grand a month. Well now you're splitting at a thousand bucks. I'm trying to go through. So there's two ways to get more margin to get rid of this debt faster, and that's to make more or spend less. And so those are the two areas, the two levers I want you to start looking at is do a detailed budget using every dollar, and I'll gift that to you to help you get through this. And, and go look at all of your expenses. Because right now you feel like you need to live like a pharmacist. You want people to know, look at me, I'm doing pretty good. And the problem is that's going to cause lifestyle creep. You're going to eat out more, go out more, have nicer things, dress nicer. And right now we need to live like a broke college student because we got a mess to clean up.

[G]

Absolutely.

[B]

The good news is I don't have

[G]

any problem with eating ramen.

[B]

So the good news is, you know, your rent right now is really right at the, the 25% mark. You know, between that and your minimum payments, you're at $2800 a month. Where's the rest of that money going? What's your next biggest expense that you go, you know, here's the problem, guys, it's my car payment. Is there anything else that we could try to help you find that margin? Do you have a car payment? Speak of.

[G]

I do have a car payment. It's not much and it's the. I owe 1898 less on it, about 385 per month.

[B]

Okay, well that's some margin freed up. Is there anything else? Because I still feel like there's a big chunk of money that's not accounted for by all the major players. You didn't mention kids or daycare or anything like that.

[G]

Let me see. I have a budget. There is. I mean, not really. Those are really. It just goes to essentially rent car. I have a lot of. I put a lot of money away in retirement.

[B]

Okay, there's where it is. I knew it was somewhere. So again, I love this conversation because you're wanting to do the right things. You're just doing them in the wrong order. So I love a person who wants to build wealth. I love a person. You're very responsible because that's a responsible choice. But George and I would caution you that there's a better order to do this in, because if you're investing but you're still in debt, you know, obviously it's, it's taking away your piece. We talked about that. And obviously you probably don't have much liquid Savings. And so therefore your retirement is at risk. The next time you're in a jam, you might liquidate that, which is terrible. So George and I would say you need to pause investments. It's only temporary. It's not a scary thing. But you need the full force of your income to do what George said, which is be putting hopefully around $3,000 a month on these student loans to get them paid off. Please, please, please cancel and, and pause those retirement contributions.

[C]

Hey guys, George Camel here. Listen, we need to talk about your phone plan because for a lot of you it's like a bad roommate. You know the one. Unpredictable moods, always asking for money, hard to get rid of and they never do the dishes. And that's what the so called big wireless carriers are like. They're counting on you overpaying forever. But Boost Mobile flipped the script. You can unlock up to $600 in savings per year over the big guys when you switch to Boost Mobile on their unlimited plan. There's no contracts, no hidden fees, and no surprise email saying, hey, your bill went up. Because reasons you see with Boost Mobile you bring your phone, keep your number and pay just 25 bucks a month. 25 bucks and that price is locked in forever. So if you're thinking, okay, George, that all sounds great. What's the catch? There isn't one. Boost Mobile backs it up with a 30 day money back guarantee, which means you can try it without feeling trapped. People kick the bad roommate out. Head to BoostMobile.com Ramsey to make the switch today. That's BoostMobile.com Ramsey based on average annual payment of AT&T Verizon and T Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January 2026. See website for full details.

[B]

All right, George, let's hear from Tabitha who's right here in our backyard. Nashville, Tennessee. Hi Tabitha. What's up?

[J]

Hey.

[G]

So I recently paid off my student loans and finally on the straight and narrow, right, I called the credit union that opened up the high yield. Well, it's a checking, but it has a higher yield than the high yield savings. So anyhow, and I asked them like, you know, because I want to plan to be able to put money down. And I was thinking about the manual underwriting because other than that I have one credit card but I don't use it. So I'm fixing to have it just cut off basically.

[K]

Okay.

[G]

And they, they acted like I was crazy. So I guess I got the weird thing for the first time. But I'm wondering like, am I Asking, like, is there questions I'm supposed to ask? Is there a different way to go about it? Because they were like, no, you need credit. Like, you don't need to turn that off. Like, even if you don't use it, your credit score will still be there and we'll be able to use it. And it should, if it's paid off and it should go up. And I'm like, well, just to, for

[B]

the person listening, manual underwriting is the way that you get approved for a mortgage if you don't have a credit

[C]

score, not if you have a low score. People think, well, I can get around my low score. But no, if you have a score at all, you can't do manual underwriting. So that's the key, Tabitha, is once you're completely debt free, all the accounts are closed. It may take 6 to 12 months for your credit score to become indeterminable. And at that point, then you can do manual underwriting. So I don't know when you're going to be ready to actually go home shopping. Are we talking three years from now?

[G]

Probably a little over a year based on the amount that I'm going to have to save to get to the 25% mark.

[C]

Okay, cool. So do you have an emergency fund yet? I know you said your student loan. Your loans are paid off.

[G]

No, I'm finishing that up hopefully within the next six months. And then after that I'll start on

[C]

the, on the down payment savings fund. Okay, cool. So here's the deal. A lot of people don't know what manual underwriting is because they were so ingrained in the broken financial system we find ourselves in. But the truth is, credit scores have not been around that long. We're talking like since the 90s. And before that, what lenders did was look at things like your income. So they'd verify your income, look at your rental payment history. They'd look at, you know, 12 month history of your bank statements. They would look at trade lines like utility bills or cell phone bills to determine whether or not they will grant this loan to you. So that's exactly what manual underwriting does. And you just looked in the wrong place. So I would reach out to Churchill Mortgage. You can go to ChurchillMortgage.com and talk to them about it. They're the, the number one in the nation because we send all the Ramsey fans to them. So they won't look at you like you're crazy. They'll go, oh, absolutely, we can help with that. And they'll Answer all of your questions and steer you in the right direction when it comes to what you need to do to get prepared for that. Because there are some steps, there's a few hoops to jump through, but I've done it. It's not. It's not as difficult as people make it out to be.

[B]

No, it's not bad. So for a few more specifics, if you're thinking about that, you need to be able to show 12 months of documented rental history. So if you're listening out there and you're living with mom and dad and not paying rent, thinking you're going to buy a house and do manual underwriting, you need to pay rent. You need to have some sort of documented rental payment history. You need to have 12 months of other trade lines. These are things like George mentioned, cell phones, utilities. You could even use insurance payments for that. Also actual money. Okay. So they're going to want to see that you have income for the last 12 months. If you're self employed, they might look back two years. That's important. And then obviously you want a nice down payment. The bigger the better is going to set you up to win. And that's really all there is to it. It's really not that big of a deal. The only other part of this is just making sure you're in the right position. And Tabitha, it sounds like you're on the right track. Finishing up that debt, saving up the three to six months, and then getting on to that down payment. Very, very good call.

[C]

Thank you. That's awesome for the call.

[B]

All right, let's keep it rolling, George. We got Madison in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Madison.

[G]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[B]

Yes, ma'. Am. What's going on?

[G]

So my husband and I just got married in January and we started out at around close to $100,000 in debt. We're now at around 38,000, but we are are expecting a baby in November. So my question, I know you guys say usually to pause if you're expecting, but how much do you think is a good amount to have to be prepared?

[B]

I love that question. So, yeah, you're exactly right. We call that stork mode, which is kind of funny, but it's just the idea of the most important thing in your world right now is being prepared for this baby, not paying off debt. And so, yeah, pausing is good. I'm thinking about two things. Number one, I'm going to save as much as I possibly can, whatever money I can. Because the truth is, if it weren't stork mode, you'd still be doing that. The money would just be going towards debt. So, yeah, let's keep up that same intensity because the fact of the matter is when the baby comes and you guys get home and everybody's healthy, you're gonna take that money and you're gonna throw it towards the debt. So the more the merrier. But I would have a couple of thoughts in mind to go along with that. Number one, George, I'm always looking at the out of pocket max on my insurance.

[C]

I wanna know that's the partner on the hook for.

[B]

Yep. I wanna know that if things go south and, you know, we end up having more stuff. What is it? Is it 10,000? Is it 1250? Like, whatever it is, I want that money, that amount saved. That just gives you just that warmth,

[C]

some peace of mind that you're not going to be going into a bunch of medical debt if you were to have a longer hospital stay. And so once you and baby are home safe, you might have 30 grand ready to throw at the debt while you've been making these minimum payments. So how much could you save by the time baby's here?

[K]

That's a good question.

[G]

I feel like we kind of got like a good head start because we were able to get rid of a car and then we had wedding money. But I would say we could probably save close to 10, maybe 15,000 before the baby gets here.

[C]

Okay, so if you made minimum payments on the debts and then through the rested savings, 15k by November is what you're thinking?

[G]

Sure. The only other thing is that I know we should not have done this, but we borrowed some money from a family member. So we do want to pay that for sure before the baby gets here, but I think we could get through that pretty quickly.

[B]

How much is it?

[G]

So $5,500.

[B]

That's a significant chuck of 10 to 15,000.

[G]

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't. We should be able to have that this month or next month.

[B]

Oh, so that's aside from this, I

[G]

think that we could still get to at least 10,000 before the baby gets here.

[C]

Okay, what's your household income?

[G]

105.

[H]

All right.

[C]

And are you planning on going back to work after or you going to stay home?

[G]

I do plan to go back, yeah.

[C]

Okay, cool. And what's left in 38k? What kind of debts are those?

[G]

I have 13,000 on my car, 9,000 in student loans, the 5,500 to my dad, and the rest is credit cards.

[C]

Okay. Now the bigger Question is, are you guys done with debt? Are you changing the behavior that got you here? Like, have you cut up the credit cards?

[G]

Yeah, we're absolutely done.

[C]

Good. Love to hear that. Well, you're on your way. I'd be focused on just making sure you. You and baby are healthy and the debt will get paid. And I hope it's done. I mean, it'd be pretty cool if you guys went real crazy and got it done early next year, before that baby's first birthday. For sure.

[G]

That's the plan. As soon as possible. We've been doing pet sitting and, like, staying at different houses, which we don't want to do that anymore because it's to be newlyweds and away from each other, but trying to do whatever we can to. To get through it.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the mentality that you have to have when you're attacking debt, George. It's. You're going to feel a level of discomfort. And if you're trying to do the things that we teach and trying to keep it, you know, life is the same. Nothing really changes. I don't really feel it. You're not going. You're not doing it right.

[C]

Yeah. You need to go hard enough that you never want to go back into debt.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Because you sacrifice so deep.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And for me, it was like Lean Cuisines. That was my debt free journey food. And I would wait for them. I'd go to Kroger, I'd wait for them to be on sale. Five for $10.

[B]

I remember that sale.

[C]

Two dollars. I was like, all right, if I can eat for $2ameal. I mean, I looked. If you open my fridge, there was nothing in it. You open my freezer, just a stack of lean cuisines, 20 high.

[B]

All I think about is the microplastics in today's world.

[C]

They're gonna study my body for science one day.

[B]

Your brain is, like, really made of plastic.

[C]

What happened to him? And so now I can't even pass by the Lean Cuisines in the grocery store.

[B]

Oh, it's like.

[C]

Like it just brings me back. I feel a little vile. No, thank you. Not doing that again. But that's caused me to not go into debt.

[B]

I know that's right. What not tempted you have to do.

[C]

Because I'm not going back to that Lean Cuisine lifestyle.

[B]

Who cares? Who cares if you were in the best shape ever?

[C]

I'll keep my lean physique in other ways. What a great name, though. Lean Cuisine, you gotta admit.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Did you Have a debt free food. Now you're a foodie. And you, you eat super clean. You wouldn't darken the door of a Lean Cuisine.

[B]

I wouldn't darken the door of a Lean Cuisine. I. I think for me, the biggest thing is I don't. Don't ask me about a coupon. Don't ask me to do something to get money off. Right? Like, I did enough couponing that I don't want anymore. I.

[C]

That's your ptsd.

[B]

Yeah. Even you'll say, you'll say, oh, you should do that app. You can get, you can save money. I'm like, no, I don't want to say receive money.

[C]

She doesn't want to hear about my promo code to get 30% off pizza. George Camel here. Let me give you three signs. It's time to stop hoping your debt problem goes away and actually take action to fix it. If you've defaulted on a debt, if collectors are calling nonstop, or if you're facing a lawsuit or think one's coming, you don't just have a debt problem anymore. You've got a legal problem. And that's why I tell people about Guardian Litigation Group. Because here's the thing. If you're behind on your bills, doing more of the same is not going to fix it. You need a different plan. And Guardian Litigation isn't just another debt relief company making promises they can't keep. They're an actual law firm. And from day one, you get an attorney who represents you. So when collectors start pushing, you're not guessing. You've got someone in your corner who knows how to respond when your debt problems escalate into legal problems. So don't wait for it to get worse. Go to guardianlit.com Ramsey right away. That's guardianlit.com Ramsey Attorney Advertising Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed.

[B]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade, this is George next to me taking your calls. And we've got Jacob, who's on the line in Richmond, Virginia. Jacob, what's going on in your world?

[H]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. I was calling about. I've been considering going to college and to kind of get a job that I'm more wired for. I've taken the kin like assessment test and the hard decision about it is just that I'm in a career now that pays pretty solid considering I don't have a degree, but it's just not the most fulfilling.

[B]

What kind of work is it that you're doing? Now. And what are you earning?

[H]

Yeah, it's a lot of just kind of desk work at a computer desk for like a labor company. I make about 55.

[B]

Okay, and what is it that you want to do and what would be a fair salary that you think you'd make doing that?

[H]

Yeah, I've kind of more in line, so I want to kind of counsel people or speak with them and, like, kind of leave an impact from my research. What I can expect if I get like a degree with it would be about 60 to 65 is the average where I'm at.

[C]

Okay, I'm confused. Are you talking about being like a therapist?

[H]

So with the assessment test I did some of the options, one I saw that I liked was like a school counselor was an option.

[C]

And have you looked into what it actually takes to become a school counselor?

[H]

Yeah. So on that assessment, it shows that a master degree would be needed along with some licensing, which. The part that's hard for me is like, I don't mind doing that, but I feel like it's kind of maybe unwise to maybe do this change while I'm in the process of baby step number two.

[B]

Oh, okay. So baby step two, for those listening, that's the step where you're paying off your consumer debt. How much consumer debt do you have?

[H]

Have? At this current moment, I have about 11,000. I started at 20, like last year.

[B]

Okay, so you've been making headway on that. And is it just you, Jacob, or do you have a family? Wife.

[H]

I actually just got married in March. I came down and visited. Y' all went on my honeymoon.

[B]

Wow. We probably told you to go have fun and get out of here.

[H]

George made a joke about it. Yeah.

[C]

That's sad that this. You're like, oh, what are you doing for your honeymoon? They're like, we're here. I'm like, okay, what else? No, that's great. So is your now wife working outside the home?

[H]

Yeah, she. She's a nurse. Well, she's a nurse tech at hospital.

[C]

Okay. And what does she make?

[H]

I think right now she's like about 30 a year. She's like hourly. Like 18 to 19 nurse tech.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[C]

And that should be closer to like 40 grand gross per year, which puts you guys close to a six figure salary. Does she have any debt?

[H]

No, not all of her school's been paid for so far, but we might have to pay for it in the future.

[C]

Have you guys combined finances?

[H]

Yes, completely.

[C]

Okay. Because I'm wondering, how can we. Here's my goal for you. How do we do this thing? Because I want you to pursue this dream of being a school counselor. But we want to do it smart and we want to do it debt free. And so what I would recommend is knocking out this debt really fast. And the why behind it is I got this dream on the other side that I want to get to. And that's going to put some fire under this to go, you know what we make a hundred grand, we're bringing home, you know, seven grand a month, whatever it is. Can we throw three grand a month of this debt be done in three months or four grand a month and go hard at this thing? Because now, three months from now, now we can work on the emergency fund. Do you guys have savings right now?

[H]

We have the thousand dollar saving. Outside of that, we're just intense with paying off debt.

[C]

Okay, good. So I would set an aggressive goal to pay off the debt, an aggressive goal to get through your baby step three, your full emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. And at that point now you can begin investing and cash flowing this school dream. And so that's where you need to get clear on what is the most affordable school I can go to to get the requirements, the degree required. Yeah, not the fanciest school. Just what is the most affordable school to check the box and say, yep, I have this degree because you need to go undergrad into grad

[H]

potentially for that. I'm not necessarily saying that's the exact career it has to be. I just know for a fact I'd probably be more fulfilled. But yeah, it's just been difficult because I'm not sure if it's unwise or kind of selfish to do a step like that.

[B]

Well, you do have to consider the return on investment. You have to consider a couple of things. Number one, we're not going into debt for it. So just for the master side of it, I mean a lot of people would borrow anywhere between 60 to 120,000 to be able to do what it is that you want to do. But then you're coming away with a degree making 55 to 75. Right. So you have to think through that. The time frame I think gives you some time that you could cash flow it. I mean people do these programs in two to three years. So I think that that gives you some time that if you started with a chunk of money right as to start out with, it's like, okay, I work a semester and during that semester I'm saving up for the next semester. I think you could cash flow it in that way. And that's the only way that I would suggest it. Yeah, I would just do some really deep dives into how. I hate the word cheap, but how inexpensive you can get this degree. Is it an online option? Are there things that you can do to mitigate that cost at all?

[H]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[C]

And you'll have to think through, can you do this, go to school full time while your wife carries the load of income for the family? So that's another piece of the puzzle to figure out. Well, you need to work part time and this just takes longer. And you're doing school at night, for example. So that would be a conversation I would start to have with your wife about what this actually looks like in reality versus I just have this dream and I hate this job. So I'm just gonna leave and at all costs, I'm gonna go do it. You wanna be smart about it and move slowly with peace so that you don't have a pile of debt on the other side.

[B]

And does. Does your wife, does she plan on moving up to being a registered nurse or is she going to keep teching? Like, what's she going to do?

[H]

Yeah, I think she wants to continue moving up in that kind of career tree. She has about two more years before she can be considered like an official nurse.

[B]

Okay.

[H]

And we can probably expect about another 10k for her schooling. And now that we're married, she probably won't get as much financial aid.

[B]

Okay, Right. Okay.

[C]

So I wonder if her career trajectory has a higher ceiling right now. I might have her pursue school first. Like, hey, you go first. Yeah, you go make. Secure the back 80 grand a year as a nurse so that we have the freedom, flexibility for me to go pursue this over here. So there is kind of a give and take here. We can't all just, you know, go pursue our dreams all at the same time. And nobody's working.

[H]

Yeah, definitely.

[C]

So it might take longer than you want it to, but. But I believe this is. It's not a selfish thing to go do work that you're wired to do that does give you fulfillment.

[H]

Okay, I appreciate that.

[B]

Yeah, thanks for the call. You know, a lot of times, George, we take these calls and we're talking about dollars and cents and income and all these things. But the truth is, this is the job that you're gonna be going into day in, day out, spending the majority of your life there. Eight, ten hours a day. You're commuting there, you're giving up time from your children and your family. There's it matters. Like you have to feel good about the work that you're doing. You have to feel like you're making a difference. It has to feel worth it to you. So conversations like this, I, I love them because I'm all about getting people to that. Like I. Everybody wants to feel good about the work that they're doing and the time that they're spending doing it.

[C]

Well, Anna, I always recommend go meet with some school counselors, get a feel for what they actually do day to day.

[B]

True that.

[C]

Do they enjoy it? What are the pitfalls? What are the things, things that they love about the job? What are things to look out for as you pursue this career field or what school you work at? All of that matters and you don't want to show up and go, wow, this is not what I thought it would be.

[B]

Uhhuh, I sunk all this money.

[C]

Now you're Ross from Friends Tivit Pivot.

[F]

Okay, guys, let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank? Because if you're still earning next to nothing on your savings, you need to check out Fairwinds Credit Union. And I know it's you're thinking it might sound like a hassle, moving your direct deposit, updating bills, getting a new debit card feels like a lot. But here's what most people don't realize. Staying where you are could be costing you hundreds of dollars every year, y'.

[B]

All.

[F]

The average savings account pays less than half a percent. So let's say for example, you got $20,000 saved. You might earn around $70 a year. But with a fair wind high yield savings account earning 3% APY or more, that same money could earn you over doll. And that's real money that you can use towards the baby steps. So don't let temporary comfort keep you stuck. Check out the smart bundle from Fairwinds Credit Union. You get a high yield savings account, a no fee checking account, and the Ramsey Beweird debit card. Go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more and make the switch today. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[B]

All right, back to the phone lines. Simon is in San Diego, California. What's up, Simon?

[H]

Hey, how's it going?

[C]

Good.

[B]

How can we help?

[H]

First of all, really awesome to be talking to Jade and George, longtime listener of the show. Second of all, I am debating on getting a HELOC to pay for one. Clear up some AMEX debt that my wife and I Have to buy a new vehicle.

[C]

Wait, is this a prank call? Dude, no. You said longtime listener, and then you mentioned three things that we are vehemently against.

[B]

Or did you just wait till Dave wasn't here?

[I]

I totally get that.

[D]

I was going to be like, I

[H]

kind of sound a little bit silly. Longtime listener. You guys like going into debt.

[C]

So the goal of all this is to buy a new car?

[H]

Well, Amex is a big one as well, but yeah, we need a new vehicle. Our last one, the one that we currently have, is on the fritz. And yeah, that's primary concern right now with me and my wife is getting a new car.

[B]

Okay, so let's kind of pan back here because if you're doing all of this rigamarole to get a new car, this is a symptom of a much greater issue, which is you guys are out of control. Right? There's, there's something going on with debt, there's something going on with income that's causing you to spend on the credit card, not be able to pay the balance. And then instead of looking to something like savings or liquid cash, you're now looking to a line of credit that's attached to your home, which is what a HELOC is. And you're now thinking about draining the equity in one of your greatest assets to now fund. What I think you said is, I don't know if it's a brand new car, but a new car. So I'm a little nervous about that. Very nervous about that. Tell us, when you say your current car is on the fritz, what does that mean? Does that mean, hey, we just have to make some repairs and we just don't want to pay the $700? Or is it, you know, the engine exploded and it needs a new drive shaft? Like, what's going on? I'll never use that terminology again, by the way. That's the best I've got.

[C]

That was impressive.

[H]

It's gonna be one of those scenarios where we either keep it for maybe a year, but it is a 2018 and it's gotten, it's gotten so many problems to where the next time we get any sort of, we have to pay more money for this car. It's. We're just going to sell it at that point.

[C]

Okay, so you said you could make this work for another year. So the question now is, can we clean up the financial mess in a year and save up for this car in cash and get a new to you car?

[H]

Well, yeah, I have cash. That's the thing.

[B]

How Much cash.

[H]

Do you have savings? About 15 grand right now in a savings.

[B]

Good.

[H]

But we have a lot of money actually in an inherited ira. But we want to use that money to use that money technically as our income. So we use the stipends of that to add to our current income.

[C]

What's your current income without the IRA?

[H]

Without the IRA. The IRA right now is giving us an additional 30k a year.

[C]

So what do you guys make up?

[H]

That would be about 135.

[C]

Okay, 135k is your household income. And what's left on the Amex. What's the balance?

[H]

About 14k.

[C]

So why don't you use your savings and pay off the AMEX today?

[H]

Well, because we then we don't have any savings. Well, we technically do, but then we don't have any like liquid cash. Like I don't like taking money out of that ira. I want to use that, use those monthly stipends for, you know, as long as I possibly can.

[C]

You like putting your house at risk with a HELOC to pay off the amex to buy a brand new car that's going to go down in value.

[D]

I get that it's going to go

[H]

down in value, but I don't think the home is technically at risk. Because if I make a plan to pay this hello quickly and don't, anything could happen.

[C]

If I had a nickel for every time someone had a plan on this show, I wouldn't be in the job. So yeah, here's the deal, dude. You know what to do. Use your cash savings to pay off the debt. Cut up the freaking amex, never use it again, Never take out a heloc. And then you save up for a car you can afford in cash. That's it. And make the repairs needed until you have the cash to buy the car you want. And make sure that car and everything other cars don't add up to more than half your annual income. So for you guys, that's, that's, you know, 65k in cars. Yeah, that's plenty of car.

[B]

Plenty of car. And I think the rule of thumb, there's a lesson to be learned here, and I think it's worth highlighting. So you cannot solve a problem while simultaneously creating the problem. And in simplest terms, I.e. if debt is your problem, you cannot solve the problem of debt while going into more debt. You cannot use debt to solve for debt. The only way way you solve for debt is to pay it off. And the problem with it is a lot of times people use language like I'M going to use a HELOC to pay off my credit card debt. Like, you're not paying it off, you're simply moving it. It is not a solution. It's just I'm moving it from here to over here. And the saddest thing about it, George, is they're thinking that that's a better position for the debt.

[C]

They're like, well, I'd rather. I need to pay off the mafia, so I'll go borrow from the cartel. I'd rather owe the cartel money than the mafia. You're like, dud. A terrible life you've created for yourself.

[B]

Yeah, and, and it's, it's not even. I don't even want to create any shame around it because I think what's speaking here is desperation. It's. I see a situation, it's not good, and I'm looking for a quick fix. Can I, can I fix it quickly? Because you know, you know you're not safe. Like, you know, it's not a good thing. So the quickest possible thing I can do, I can go over here and get a HELOC. They're going to loan me up to 80 to 90% of my home equity. I can do that. And it's like, like, hold up, pump the brakes. Let's just think for a second. This guy's got the money sitting there. And in many cases, that is, you've got the money liquid. But there's that false security of, I have this cash. I need this cash. But we're telling you, once you pay off the debt and you're free now, suddenly you've got more income, you can save up that cash again. If you saved it up once, you can save it up again.

[C]

Well, if you're scared to part with the cash, you already did by going 15 grand today.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Just you did it without realizing it was someone else's money that you got to pay back later. And later always comes. Unfortunately, it does.

[B]

And that's the part where, and this is. I'm not saying this to be snarky, although, George, you could say it to be snarky.

[C]

I appreciate that.

[B]

Math. If you're deciding to do math, then you have to decide to do math on both sides. If you're deciding to say, I care about my 15,000, it took me X amount of months to save it up. It's precious to me. Then you have to do the math on the other side. That goes. Well, you don't really have that because

[C]

you owe 14 on the balance Sheet. It's, it's not math. And.

[B]

Yeah, and so that's, that's just a little something to remember. It's. It's important, guys. Okay, Brian in Sacramento, California. I'm sorry, Brian. How can we help you today? Is it another car question?

[H]

Hi, James. Hi, George. Yes, it is. I want to buy sort of my midlife crisis car.

[C]

How much is the Mazda Miata going to cost? You

[H]

close. It's 12 grand.

[C]

Okay, what car is it?

[H]

I would rather not say because it's very rare, but it's as old as I am and it's a convertible.

[C]

That's fun. All right. And it's only 12K. Do you have the cash to do it?

[H]

I do.

[C]

Are you in debt?

[H]

What bothers me, no, I have no debt other than my mortgage, but I am 54. I have only about 100 grand in retirement savings at this point. And you know, my mortgage I'd like to pay off by the time I'm in my mid-60s. I'm currently on track to pay it off by 66.

[C]

Okay, so you're saying you feel bad blowing 12 grand on a toy when you're behind on retirement?

[H]

I feel, yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[H]

I feel self indulgent and frivolous. It's, you know, it would be fun to have, but yeah, I just, I feel like I need to pay off my mortgage as fast as possible and I need to build up my retirement as quick. I'm currently putting 15% every year based on a $185,000 salary into my 401k.

[B]

Would you be trading your existing car for this car or would this just be another car to add to the, the garage?

[H]

This would be. This would be another car.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Are you married?

[H]

Single.

[C]

Okay, man. Well, here's the thing. I don't think this is going to make or break your chances of retiring, but I do think if you buy this car, I would really hit the accelerator to get your retirement in order, get this house paid off faster, get your income up even further. You're all, you're doing really well right now. You just are in, you know, later on in the game. So I'm not mad about it. For you going to get this 12k car, you got to be ready for the insurance. Insurance, the maintenance, the repairs as well. There's going to be ongoing costs, but again, it's not a make or break.

[B]

I think it's not a make or break. By the time you retire, your house is going to be paid off and that money is going to a lump Sum that's earning the right rate of return is going to double every seven years. So I think that you can be

[C]

okay, just be okay working four months longer than you would have.

[B]

There you go.

[F]

As a mom, I plan for everything. I plan the budgets, snacks, lunches, backup outfits in the car for the unexpected. I mean, everything. Because moms handle a million details every day. So don't skip one of the biggest ones. What happens to your family if you're not there tomorrow? You guys, a lot of people put off making a will because it can feel a little scary. But here's what we all need to realize. Planning for the future isn't fear. It's love. And creating a will turned out to be one of the most loving, protective things I could ever do for my family. And Mama Bear legal forms makes it so easy. No lawyers, no stress. Just an online process that you can finish in about 20 minutes. And now my husband and I both sleep better because we have taken care of the stuff that really matters. And it isn't scary. It's wise. It's what moms do. So if you've been putting off making a will, I totally get it. But don't wait anymore, because you're a mom first, which means you're always planning. So go to mamabearlegalforms.com and use promo code Ramsey to save 20%. Mama bearlegalforms.com Code Ramsey.

[B]

The truth is, we wish we could get to every single call and question that pops up here on the show, but we can't. So if you have a money question and you want an answer for your specific situation, head over to our website and use the Ask Ramsey tool. Ask Ramsey is a free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Ask your question [e-mail] or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jennifer is in Charleston, South Carolina. Jennifer, you are on the line.

[G]

Hi.

[J]

How are y' all doing today?

[B]

Doing great. What's up in your world?

[J]

All right. So me and my husband got married just over a year ago, and we were living in an apartment, paying rent. We have no debt at all other than just rent.

[B]

Okay.

[J]

So we got into some family issues. My husband's parents were supposed to be taking care of my husband's grandparents. If one of them passed away, they were pretty much going to be moving in with them. They got into an argument. They're no longer taking care of his grandpa. So we have now been blessed with the financial burden, I guess of his grandfather and trying to, to help him financially because he's unable to on just one income. So we're having a hard time trying to navigate our life moving forward with taking on this big expense. Since we're both 27, we haven't started our family or anything like that. Just kind of worried about long term.

[B]

So let me get this straight. Your in laws got mad and decided we're not helping him anymore and they then pushed it over to you guys, the 27 year olds?

[J]

Pretty much. So they don't think that he really looked at all of his options. He's living on his own right now. He was going to be moving in with them, but now that they don't want him to move in, they think

[B]

that why don't they want him to?

[J]

It was some argument and some, some old bitterness from something that happened many years ago that now they don't want him to move in now that he's. He's needing to.

[B]

Got it. And so now you guys are up to bat and you can also say no. What happens if you say no? What do you think the repercussion is?

[J]

Probably just a hardened relationship, I guess with grandpa. I mean with Grandpa. Okay. Right. He is alone now and he's sad. He just lost his wife back in December.

[B]

Oh no.

[J]

So he just wants to be around family and, and of course he could probably find a home to stay in or he probably would have to get a job again and work to make up. But.

[B]

How old is.

[J]

He's 73. He's in great health condition. He just is loving the retired life. He doesn't want to have to go back to work.

[C]

Well, he doesn't get an option if he doesn't have money.

[K]

I mean.

[G]

True.

[C]

So I mean that's a hard conversation to have with a grown adult and maybe the whole family and go listen, we. Nobody wants to take on the financial burden. We love grandpa. We need to figure out a plan for him. Let's say he lives another 25 years. Are you guys just gonna live there and take care of his bills for 25 years and stunt your own growth?

[J]

I don't want to.

[B]

No, you don't have to.

[C]

Same thing to be asked of you. And you have every right to say no. I'm not doing that.

[G]

Right.

[C]

And it doesn't mean you don't love grandpa. It just means you're not gonna be a part of this dysfunction and get this slapped onto you to go, well, this is your burden to carry forever. That's what family does. Now if you want to chip in to help grandpa, that's a discussion you can have and what limited contributions you're gonna make per month for whatever amount of time. But for you to just fund his life forever because he enjoys being retired is insane.

[B]

Where's he living now? Does he have a home that he owns?

[G]

He does.

[J]

He still has a mortgage on it. He could probably sell it, but would only make probably a 100 grand back in proceeds. Okay, so we have just moved in with him. We told him we can of course cover the, the home things.

[B]

You moved in with him?

[J]

Yeah, we already have.

[B]

Oh no. Jennifer, you just made this. You. You made this the plot twice.

[C]

One of you has to get evicted. This is awkward.

[J]

Our. Our lease was ending and so we didn't want to have to sign a six month or another year if he was really struggling.

[G]

And he's not.

[E]

Not.

[J]

He's not struggling yet.

[B]

Yeah. I thought you said he was healthy enough to go back to be working and stuff.

[J]

Right. Without going back to work. He's in like a $2,000 deficit is what he says per month. Really? Yeah.

[C]

What are his expenses outside of the mortgage?

[J]

Frivolous things.

[G]

He.

[J]

He spends too much money on groceries

[B]

and so it's not really a deficit, it's a budgeting.

[J]

He's living above his means for sure.

[C]

So now we're funding behavior. We're not even just taking care of the elderly. We're just funding his lifest and whatever he wants to buy, it's going to be on you to fund the deficit. Yeah. Even more reason to not sign up for this.

[B]

Yeah. I think those are two different things. And it's worth noting the difference. If you're telling me that this guy just needs to reallocate funds and then he's got enough to live on his own. That is completely different than saying my grandfather who is 90 years old, who is suffering from, you know, whatever, whatever health things. He cannot work. He has, you know, fifteen hundred dollars of Social Security and that's it. And no. Right. Those are different situations. This is not that.

[C]

How much does he actually bring in a month?

[J]

A little over 2,000.

[C]

And what's his mortgage payment?

[J]

His mortgage is like 792, I think.

[B]

Okay.

[J]

He escrows his, his taxes, he pays out of pocket for insurance.

[B]

What about cars? Does he have a car payment?

[J]

No, both of his cars are paid off. Just the insurance.

[G]

He has two vehicles.

[J]

He doesn't want to get rid of one because it's his dream Mustang that he enjoys driving. So the insurance, I know gas is expensive.

[C]

I think he needs to feel the reality of his situation. Which means nobody's going to be funding his misbehavior anymore if he can't make the payments. If he goes deeply into credit card debt, that's on him. You don't need to try to like fund his life so that he doesn't go into. If he goes into debt, he's a grown man who can make those decisions. And that's Capital One's problem. If they give a 73 year old a $10,000 credit card limit.

[B]

And Jennifer, I want to turn this conversation to you just a little bit because I'm gonna tell you, this is you and me just we're hanging out right now. Okay. Like you and me, we're best buddies. I'll probably pour you a glass of chardonnay.

[G]

Love it.

[B]

Okay. And I'm a slide it over to you and ask you, why would you move into grandpa's house? I wonder, do you also have an ulterior thing here where it's like we can save a little bit of money? We'll split the rent here, we'll split the mortgage. It works out for us. Tell me why you would do that, because I'm looking at this dysfunction going, surely Jennifer wouldn't want to participate in that.

[J]

Right? Right. So he has offered us a deal.

[G]

Ish.

[B]

So an offer you can't refuse.

[J]

Right?

[G]

Right.

[J]

So we're already paying rent. So that money is already kind of going down the drain, you know, so we're paying towards the house, which is about what we're paying in rent anyway. So we're not really shelling out more money than we already are.

[B]

Okay.

[J]

He has stated that this house that he's in now just isn't going to be a good house long term for all of us.

[B]

Okay.

[J]

So he said if we move in and we pretty much agree to take care of that when we find the next house, when he sells his house, we'll get whatever pros or whatever money we've put into his house now as we're living there, we'll get back and then he'll pay the down payment of

[C]

a new house for this guy should become a politician. He doesn't have the amount of lies coming out of his mouth. He should be in Congress right now because guess what? He's not going to have any money.

[J]

Right.

[C]

To give you.

[J]

He's pretty much Banking on that, he's going to get a good chunk of proceeds from the house sale.

[B]

How is he gonna take care of himself though? Because he would need to take those sales and that would cover, I don't. A nursing home or whatever living facility he'd go to, whatever care. Heaven forbid he doesn't need a nurse or someone to take care of him.

[C]

This is all the money he has to his name. He can't give it to you.

[G]

Right.

[C]

And I would not expect that.

[J]

He's told me in, in depth how much money he has.

[B]

I thought you said he only had the hundred thousand in the. In the house. What else does he have?

[G]

Have?

[J]

Oh, no, I mean, he has savings and stuff like that. I'm just talking about once he sells the house. So he has like, how much does he have in 60,000 in a savings account and I think he has 40,000 in another savings account. But he's trying to think how, how long that's going to last him.

[B]

Well, and that's the biggest problem because he's 73 and healthy. This could go on for another 25 years. And you could look up and be like, we paid the Datgum house off.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he's like, oh, I don't. You know, I think that at a

[C]

25 grand deficit, all of his money is gone in like five years. So I'm not hitching my wagon to anything this guy's doing and I'm not trusting.

[B]

And you don't need it. You don't need it, Jennifer. You guys can go out and make a life for yourself and buy the house that you want in time. Nothing's on fire. We don't need to make these crazy deals to be successful.

[C]

I would move out tomorrow and say, love you, grandpa. We'll visit at Thanksgiving.

[F]

Buying a home is one of the biggest financial decisions you'll ever make. But too many people base the decision on opinions or what the market is doing that week.

[A]

Churchill Mortgage has been our trusted partner for over 30 years because they do things the Ramsey way. A lot of people think buying a home starts with going to a bunch of open houses. But if you're buying a home the right way, you start with a budget and a trusted guide like Churchill. Before you even think about house shopping, Churchill will show you the real numbers, not what a bank will approve. Buying before being ready is how people end up house poor and stressed out.

[F]

Churchill will tell you the truth, and they won't push you into more house than you need. And once you understand what you can actually afford, you can move forward with clarity and confidence.

[A]

So if you're ready to buy a home, choose the right guide and stick to a plan. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com and get started. That's Churchill Mortgage.com.

[C]

this is a paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumeraccess.org equal housing lender.

[B]

All right, all right. Laura is in Great Falls Mount Montana. Okay. Did I get it right, Laura? Is it Montana?

[G]

Yes.

[B]

All right. Gotta remember those abbreviations for elementary school, Paul. Elementary school, I'm telling you. How can we help out today, Laura?

[G]

Yeah. Thank you so much for taking my call. So our question is, should we pause Baby Step 2 To have the lead paint on the exterior of our house scraped and redone?

[B]

Ooh, that's a health hazard. Correct. Major.

[G]

Yes. So our children, two of our children have tested with lead exposure in their blood. It's not like horrible, but yes.

[B]

I'm saying yes.

[J]

Yeah.

[B]

How much is it going to cost to get rid of this poison that is on your home?

[G]

About $10,000.

[B]

Really? Just to get it out of there.

[C]

Cause you gotta repaint the whole thing.

[G]

Yeah. So the paint is in horrible condition. So the whole house has to be scraped to remove whatever's chipping and then they have to repaint the whole thing to seal it.

[C]

Okay. And you guys are in debt right now. How much debt do you have?

[G]

We have 23,000 in student loans and 103,000 on our house.

[C]

Okay. OK. Is your consumer debt?

[G]

Yeah, that's where it gets really hard for us. Because we had planned that we would be done with that student loan within the next year to year and a half. And so now we're just like, do we wait the year and scrape and do the house later or do we address this?

[C]

I would just make minimum payments on those student loans and stack up as much cash as you can to cash flow this whole thing. Thing and be done with it. I mean, to me, this is an emergency.

[B]

If it were my kids, and I'm weird about this kind of stuff too, I. Yes. There's certain things in life that trump getting out of debt for the moment. Just for the moment. And this is one of them. Like health is such a big part of our life, otherwise what are we doing it all for? And this, if you don't deal with this, it could cause more bills and health issues down the line.

[C]

So absolutely, I would pause the debt snowball and just make minimum payments. How fast can you guys cash flow? The scraping and repainting,

[G]

it'll be a feat like five, six months.

[C]

Is there anything you can sell? Can either of you work extra, get side jobs? Because I wouldn't want to be in this house. If I'm telling the truth, I'd be getting out of there until this thing is settled.

[G]

Yeah, we tried can you live with family Last summer, and we just came up with, like, that would be a horrible financial decision right now.

[B]

Yeah, No, I would not sell over a $10,000 repair. If you wanted to look at it like that.

[G]

Yeah.

[C]

Do you have family nearby?

[G]

Yeah. Yeah, we do.

[B]

And then I'm also wondering, can you break it down? I mean, obviously you want to have the house repainted, but can you do the scraping first? And that's the first thing we do. And then for a while, your house looks, you know, ratchet. And then once you've saved up the other half and kind of break it up so it's not. It's. It's a little bit more bite sized. Does that make sense?

[K]

Yeah, that's an interesting thought.

[G]

We had thought about scraping it ourselves, but then we're concerned that, like, we're

[K]

exposing ourselves to the wood also.

[B]

I'm not saying scrape it yourself. I'm just simply saying, how much is it? Because my guess is it's probably. I don't know, but it might be more expensive to repaint than to just chip off or scrape off the. The bad paint. So I'd want separate estimates. And just how much is it to get rid of the paint that's on the house? You might find that that's 3 or 4,000.

[C]

Have you got some bids on that?

[G]

We just got a bid for, like,

[C]

the whole thing, so I would check and see if you can get different bids, and maybe you can find someone to scrape for three and paint for four. Well, now you just save three grand. Grand on the project.

[G]

Gotcha.

[C]

So I would be doing some homework to get that price down as I stack up cash as fast as possible. I mean, I'd be flipping things on Facebook, marketplace, to try to create some cash. Like, this is an emergency. Imagine your child needed an emergency procedure or medicine, and you had to come up with ten grand to get it. That's the level of urgency I would personally have for my family.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I would do the same thing. And there are certain things, guys, and we can do a better job of letting you know that because we're. No one goes harder in the paint on debt than us. We want you to move hell and high water to get out of debt. We want you to sacrifice to win. All of that is so important. But we can't let that stop us from doing the things in the moment that really do require our attention. Obviously, anything regarding health, we're the first ones to tell you if there's a medical emergency. If somebody's having a baby, you need to pop pause. We're the first ones to tell you if somebody loses a job, if somebody goes into the hospital, you need to pause. And there's other things that need to happen while you're paying off debt. Like you need to have the right insurance, you need to have life insurance, you need to be paying for a will. Like there are certain things that it's okay to do while you're doing baby step two, paying off the debt. And you should feel no shame about it.

[C]

You're not a failure because it took you six months longer to pay off the student loans.

[B]

No life.

[C]

We're still going to cheer you on.

[B]

On life. Be life in as they say. All right, Andy, Detroit, Michigan on the line. Andy, what's up?

[G]

Hi, I'm calling on behalf of my son and daughter in law. They bought a money pit house and they thought elbow grease would be enough, but it's not if they have paycheck to paycheck and can't fix things. And now they recently had an emergency flood that made situation worse. They've been displaced into a hotel and now there's talk about it possibly being condemned.

[C]

Oh, gosh.

[B]

Is insurance paying? Was the flood something like where the water pipes burst or was it like it rained a lot and flood and water came in the house? Like what was the nature of the flood?

[G]

The recent thing that happened was a pipe burst and it caused this whole thing to start. But they've had floods from rain in the past that caused fire damage. So when. So insurance is possibly going to cover some of this, but they're finding finding a lot that was already wrong with it. So insurance is probably not going to cover. A lot of things have been wrong for many years.

[B]

Yeah.

[G]

They're finding asbestos in the ceiling, old wiring that has cloth coverings.

[B]

Did they not get an inspection? They didn't get an inspection when they purchased the house.

[G]

They did. They did. Yes.

[C]

And they found none of this. They thought this house is perfect.

[B]

How long ago, how long have they had the house?

[G]

It's been about a few years, I believe.

[B]

Like a few years. Like two or a few few years.

[G]

Like eight, I think it's been, I want to say three years.

[B]

Okay, three years. So what Are you. Tell us, tell us why you're calling.

[G]

I'm calling because I want to advise them. They, they come to me for advice and I want to do it right. I'm wondering if a short sale is what's going to be needed because I don't see if insurance, if insurance will cover this, then everything will be fine. They can work their way out of this. But if insurance won't cover this and is not livable, I'm afraid for them. I mean, I'm willing, my husband and I are willing to take him into our house and do whatever it takes, but I want, I just want to have the right advice for them financially. And I don't, I don't want to goof that up.

[B]

Are they panicking? And I'm not saying your panic is misplaced, but are they panicking as much as you are or are they like,

[G]

we're fine, they're panicking more so. And when I talk to them, I show a lot of different side.

[B]

Right. You're like cool and calm behind the

[G]

scenes and trying not to show.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Do you know the numbers around the house? Do you know what they paid for it?

[G]

I, I believe it was like around 130,000. And it's just a little, you know, 800 to 900 square foot house. But with the market, the way the market was when they bought it, this was all they could get.

[B]

And if they just put it for sale as is, hoping a flipper will take it. Do you think that. What do you, what do you think? Reasonably? I mean, I don't know if you've done any research. Reasonably. What do you think they could get as is?

[G]

I don't know. I have not done that research, but I know they would lose because they haven't had a chance to pay off very much of this.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

What's left on their mortgage now?

[G]

Pardon me?

[C]

What's left on their mortgage that I don't know.

[G]

I don't know specific numbers here because I try not to get too much in their business. I'm the mother, mother in law, so I'm trying to give advice while not being too much in their business.

[B]

I'm kind of glad that you don't know the numbers. That makes me know that there's boundaries, which is great.

[C]

Have they asked for help?

[G]

They ask for advice. They don't usually ask for financial help. Okay, ask for advice.

[C]

That's fine. Well, on the advice front, what I would be doing is helping them navigate this insurance landscape because that's complicated and it's a headache and you think you got one denial, so you give up. I would encourage them to appeal it, get a public adjuster, do all the research necessary because this insurance thing is the make or break if they're going to be able to get out of this unscathed or not. And worst case, there might be an as is cash buyer situation and they might be on the hook for the difference. And that's a real problem for them. So I would do everything in my power to guide them through that insurance process and get this thing covered.

[B]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show here in the Fair Ones Credit union studio. We're headed back to the phone lines where George and I find Mark in Albany, New York. Mark, how can we help out today?

[H]

Hi, how are you doing?

[B]

Great. What's up?

[H]

So I was just wondering, is it ever okay to use or deplete your emergency fund to avoid taking a loan when you're making a big purchase?

[B]

Is the big purchase an emergency? Something that is urgent, something that is completely necessary and something that is like time factor? Yeah. Unexpected?

[H]

No, it's something that's sort of been expected. It's for a car because my first, my current one is getting a little too expensive to maintain. And although safety isn't yet a concern, it's slowly getting to that point.

[C]

So does the car need repairs? What do you mean? Expensive.

[H]

So I have to repair the. Not have to. But the mileage is suffering from a damaged catalytic converter and a couple other things. And it's also just losing value. I know that shouldn't be my primary concern, but I'm just.

[C]

Is there a loan on it?

[H]

No, there is no loan. It's paid off.

[C]

Okay, and what kind of car are you looking to get? How much is that going to cost you?

[H]

It would be about 30,000.

[C]

And would you be selling the current car? Car?

[H]

Yeah, I'd be tracing it in, most likely.

[C]

So you trade it in and pay cash for this next car?

[H]

Yes, yes. If I did not use the emergency fund, then I would be taking out a loan for about half that amount.

[B]

What's, what's the, what's the trade in amount that you think you're going to get for the existing vehicle? If you don't put the repairs in,

[H]

I might get three or 4,000.

[B]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[C]

Not much. All right. How much is in the emergency fund

[H]

right now? I believe it's $11,000 or $12,000.

[C]

Okay, so you don't even have the money to even buy this cart? It's not like you have 30 grand sitting in the emergency fund. Ready to buy that car?

[B]

Yeah. Where's the other money coming from?

[H]

Well, I have 11 in the emergency fund, and I've been saving up in a new car fund. I have about 16 or 17 in the new car fund.

[C]

Great.

[B]

So why can't we just spend 16 or 17 since you have a new car fund that you've saved for. You can get a great car for $17,000.

[H]

I suppose I could. It's just I found what I really liked and.

[C]

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

[H]

Pardon me?

[C]

I was just saying. Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. You got to the actual. The bottom of this, which is, I saw it and I want it. And it looks fancier than the $17,000 version. What kind of car is that?

[H]

This. It's used. So it's not a new car. Don't worry about that. It's a 20, 23 Q5.

[C]

Oh, I thought we didn't want to get into expensive cars with expensive maintenance and expensive insurance and premium gas.

[H]

That is true, yes.

[B]

But we are. This is different. Okay, so, I mean, my answer here is very cut and dry, and we can get into the why's about it, but I think that you did something very intentional, which you said, I'm going to need a new car soon. Therefore, it's not really an emergency because you, you saw it was coming and you started saving money, which I applaud you. That's exactly what you should be doing. And you saved up a pretty penny. You saved up $17,000. Nothing stops you today from saying, I'm going to buy a $17,000 car today, and I'm going to continue to save towards that car fund so that maybe next year or at the appropriate time, I can add another 17,000 to it, and then I can come up and get my. What is it, IQ. What is it called?

[C]

The Q5, the Audi. So I'm curious, can you do these repairs now and ride this car for another six months to a year while you save up another 13 grand

[H]

for another six months? I'd probably be able to save about seven grand.

[C]

Okay, so that puts us at about 25.

[H]

Yeah, just about.

[C]

All right. I mean, I'm looking at them online right now. I'm looking at some 20, 23q5 sitting at 23 grand. So I think it's possible to do some research and negotiate and find the right one for the price. And maybe it's eight months. Okay, then we'll have 25 grand. And so it's up to you. The timeline. But the goal is don't use the emergency fund except for emergencies, and save up and pay cash for this car. And don't let them talk you, because here's what's going to happen. You're going to step onto that lot and they're going to say, well, do you want to just see the 2026? I mean, we can get you in for whatever payment you want. I mean, well, we can work with you.

[B]

Sneaky, sneaky.

[H]

So I. I already know the worst thing you can do is say, I want my monthly payment to be this. Because they're going to sneak in all kinds of stuff.

[E]

Well, we.

[B]

Not even talking about monthly payments, even.

[C]

Just. They're. I know they're going to try to get you into a fancier car that gives them a higher commission. Talking an extended warranty. I mean, I just played this game. They put LoJack on a Tesla, which already confined itself to jade. They put LoJack on there as a

[B]

little extra to try to add a little something.

[C]

You can't take that off.

[B]

I do feel like, though, when you go to the car dealership and you've done your research online and you're just like, I'm here to pick up the car. Like, I'm here to get that car, I feel like there's less of that. You allow for less of that kind of inviting in of the sales guy. It's just. I did my research. Do you have the car ready? Here it is. Great. Okay. Can you move on the price?

[C]

Well, then you got to go to the finance office to talk to that guy, no matter how you're paying. And then he talks you. He wants to get you the warranty and the paint protection package.

[B]

That's true.

[C]

It's exhausting. It's such a silly game.

[B]

I'll be honest. So Sam and I just upgraded vehicles a couple of. I guess it's only been a couple of two weeks ago for him, and it really was. It was the best experience ever. I should give the guy a shout out. But, yeah, looked online. This is the one we want. We called ahead of time. We said, hey, this is the car we're looking at. He goes, great, I'll have it ready by the time you pull up. This is the Toyota in Columbia. He goes, we'll have it ready. When we pulled up. We pulled up, it was right there. He goes, you guys just want to drive. He handed us the camera keys. He was like, I don't need to go with you. I trust you. Just like that.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

So we Go test drive the car by ourselves. Come back. He's like. So he was like, are you guys. How are you wanting to pay for this? And I said, let's. Let's decide the price first, and then we'll decide me being sneaky. He goes, all right. And he goes, well, what are you hoping to pay? And I said, here's what we're hoping. And he goes, okay. I said, if you can do that deal, I said, we'll walk away, you know, we'll walk away with the car today. He comes back, he goes, I think I can get there. I said, all right, we're paying cash. That was that. I on that.

[C]

And that's it.

[B]

That was it.

[C]

So simple.

[B]

But you got to get to your point. Got to get to the heart of the matter.

[C]

You got to have the walk away power. You got to know. Exactly. You got to know more about the car than they do, first of all, because otherwise they can talk around you in circles and get you in a car that you didn't actually want or you didn't ask enough questions about.

[B]

I think the worst thing is when you're like, I think I want a new car. And you just go down to the lot and you're just. You're just browsing, hoping to be sold.

[C]

Dangerous. And it's why, like, the Carmax and Carvanas of the world have done so, so well. Because nobody wants to have to sit there and negotiate and haggle. They just go, I see that car for that price. Can I have that? And they go, sure, yeah. When I went to a normal dealership

[B]

experience, when I went to the place, that was their whole thing. We get you in and out in less than an hour.

[C]

That's amazing.

[B]

And it was less than an hour.

[C]

Can I just say, it's not an interrogation timeshare presentation. You're there for three and a half hours to drink some cured coffee, and

[B]

then you don't even walk out with what you want.

[G]

Wanted.

[C]

No.

[B]

That's the worst part.

[C]

All right, George, I hope we help Mark. The. The key is it's not an emergency, and thank you for at least admitting it's just a shiny new thing and you want it. And so now you can look at your piece of crap car and go, well, the catalytic converter is out. It's going to be a safety issue. And you got. Just say it. You want a nice new car, at least new to you, and it's okay. Just make sure everything. All the things with wheels and motors don't add up to More than half your annual income.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

And go. There's some opportunity cost here. And if you're willing to take on the cost of ownership and maintenance and premium gas, which right now. That hurts.

[B]

Yes, it does.

[C]

Then go for it. Put it in the budget.

[B]

Yeah. You got to know the difference between an emergency, guys. We hit it earlier. It's got to be urgent, necess, necessary boy, and unexpected.

[A]

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You work way too hard to be broke and feel broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every dollar bucke budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen. Starting now. Go download everydollar in the App store or Google Play Play and start for free today.

[B]

All right. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've been turned away by other lenders because your private student loans are out of control, Y Refi may still be able to help. They specialize in reference refinancing options built specifically for borrowers in your situation. Go to yrefi.comramsey. that's the letter y-r e f y.comramsey. remember, it may not be available in all states.

[C]

Today's question comes from Carly. In South Dakota, we're debt free with our fully funded emergency fund. So I'm creating sinking funds for newer cars and house projects. I'm guessing that the sinking funds can't be cash and envelope envelopes. So do I need to open separate savings accounts or separate checking accounts for each goal? What is the best way to create a sinking fund where I can put my money aside and not touch it for those expenses? These are great questions to be asking.

[B]

Yeah. Very good.

[C]

Okay, so let's start with the first question. She's saying, okay, it's not going to be cash and envelopes. Do I need separate savings accounts? I think it's helpful.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And what's cool is that. So we have our partner, Fairwinds. We're in the Fairwinds studio.

[B]

Ah, yes.

[C]

And what's really cool is they created this just for our fans. You can have up to 10 different savings accounts that are earmarked for different things.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Within their high yield savings. So that's what I would do personally is have a car fund, because these are big ticket items. If it's little stuff, you don't need it all in separate savings. That gets complicated. But a big house project or a car. I would label it car. Otherwise, your emergency fund gets convoluted.

[B]

They're actually different accounts. Or are they, like, bucketed?

[C]

Yeah, they're bucketed in there. So. Okay. You can actually move money around between them.

[I]

Oh, wow.

[B]

That's nice. It's very convenient.

[C]

So that's. That's one fee feature. And the sinking fund part, you can set that up in every dollar to actually market as a fund. And, you know, if it's, let's say, $1,200 for the year is what you need.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

You can set a sinking fund for 100 bucks a month in every dollar.

[B]

Perfect. I love that. And that's just one of the ways that everydollar really helps you have a functioning budget doing the things that you want to do. I always say a good budget is detailed, realistic, and flexible, and that's what you can do. The budget's very flexible. You can add the line items in there. You connect your banks. I'm a pro bank connect. You can track your transactions. You can set goals. All of those things you can do within every dollar. And you can manage your sinking funds. I love that.

[C]

All right, so great.

[B]

Mary's in Denver, Colorado. Mary, how can we help out today?

[G]

Hi.

[K]

My question is I am married.

[I]

My.

[K]

And we're having kind of a dispute on retirement. I contribute a lot to my retirement account, and my husband contributes not and just Social Security. So I'm asking your advice on how

[G]

to address this issue.

[B]

So how old. How old are you guys?

[K]

I'm 37 and my husband is 39.

[B]

Okay. And when you say he. His. His goal is we'll just live off Social Security, Is that what I hear you saying?

[G]

Correct.

[K]

For his parents. And he believes that that's all he needs.

[B]

Okay. Are you guys out of debt?

[K]

We are. We're on baby step four.

[B]

Okay. So just to frame up this conversation, and then we're going to go to town on this. So let's talk about Social Security for a brief moment, because he's not the only person in the world who has had that plan. But the truth is, Social Security is only going to replace about 40% of your income. Income. And that's if it's still, yeah, existent.

[C]

The trust fund is going to be depleted by I think 20, 32 or something. And that's going to lower the benefits by probably 23% or so.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And the average payment right now for Social Security is like 2 grand.

[B]

Yeah. 18 to 2000, which is you guys, inflation.

[C]

Imagine 30 years from now, how much 2 grand is going to get you.

[K]

Yeah.

[C]

So not. I think some of it. It is the actual facts and it may, it may need to come from someone else. You guys might need to sit down with a financial advisor, a smartvestor pro, and have them walk him through the reality of the situation and what could be so sure. Could you get by off of Social Security? Ask people who are doing it. It's a sad reality.

[B]

That's usually the calls that we get when people call in and their parents or their grandparents, if, quote, all they have is Social Security Security, then the rest of the family, the younger members of the family are on the hook or feel like they're on the hook to help that person survive. And that is certainly not the position you want. I think Social Security is fine as supplement, you know, as a supplemental piece of your retirement, but it should not be the main piece. Okay, we've made that argument. So let's talk about the convincing part. So you're investing. How much are you doing the 15% or correct?

[K]

Yeah, I do 15% and I make significantly a lot more than my husband. And I also work full time and he works kind of part time.

[C]

Why is that?

[K]

My issue is. Well, he works for his dad and his dad owns a concrete company and his dad is getting to, in my opinion, needs to retire. And it's. The business is just not. It's just not going to really go anywhere.

[B]

What's he earned working part time there? What's he earn working part time there?

[K]

He makes about 40,000 a year.

[B]

And what do you earn?

[K]

I make about 55,000 or, sorry, 155. 5,000.

[G]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you, and you, if you don't want to answer this, you don't have to. But do you feel like because your income is so solid that he kind of feels like he can coast and doesn't really need to do much?

[G]

Yeah, I do.

[K]

He also has three kids. I'm a step mom to three kids and I have none of my own.

[B]

Okay.

[K]

So my concern, I guess long term is in my family, we have a lot of inheritance coming down the line here. And I want to protect myself. And if I have A child of my own. You know, we're trying, but it's not working. And so I'm saying if, if I have a child of my own, I want to be able to pass down my family's inheritance to my child. And I also want to, you know, I just want to protect myself. I'm not saying like we're headed for like a divorce, but I just in some way feel like I'm being taken advantage of and I just don't know how to navigate it.

[B]

Well, you're seeing some red flags and you don't want to ignore them. And I think that that's very smart and scary. It's scary to know not put your, you know, bury your face in the ground. You're trying to be alert and see what's going on. And I, I applaud you for that.

[C]

Have, have you actually shared your why behind all of this? Not asking him why is he not contributing, but saying, here's why I'm scared, here's why I'm contributing. I have a fear of not being prepared. I want to leave an inheritance to our children and their children. I want freedom in retirement. I want to be able to travel. I don't want financial str. Does he care about any of that? If you shared it with him?

[K]

Yeah, I've shared it with him and yeah, I've shared it with him. I, before we even got married, I shared with him my retirement dreams. I want to have multiple homes in different states. I want to be able to travel, I want to see my family. I've shared all of that before we even got married because it was a concern of mine and I've just worked very hard in my career. I've earned, you know, where, where I'm at and what's his respons. He says that he. I think he honestly, he's just content being at home, being around his children. I think that over the years his dreams have kind of changed compared to mine.

[B]

Has he given up or is it that truly what he wants? He just wants to be a stay at home dad. Like which do you think it is? Honestly?

[K]

I think it's a little, a little bit of both. I think that he doesn't. I think honestly he feels a little defeated. The fact that, that I make so much more money and that I'm already so far ahead of my retirement and when I say I want to travel and I want to see my family, I have a large family, he has a very small family. I want to go golf and do all these Things he's very content being at home.

[B]

It's just like very different.

[I]

Changed.

[K]

Yes.

[C]

It sounds like you guys were never aligned on any of these like values and goals. It was just sort of like well we're different, it'll be fine. But now there's a chasm that's growing between you guys as you are very driven, you're ambitious, you have certain goals and dreams and he's, he's gone. That's not for me. And he, and the truth is he doesn't care about those for you.

[B]

How long have you been married?

[K]

We've been married five years and I think that the things have changed. We've been together almost nine and his children have grown up. They're now 2018 and we have an 11 year old and the 20 year old has a baby. And I think things as the children have gotten older his priorities have become more of I want to be around my grandparents children, I want to be around my children and less about traveling and doing all those things.

[G]

But I feel free to do that because I don't have a child of myself.

[B]

I'll be honest with you Mary, this sounds like something that can only be solved in a counselor's office.

[C]

This is a marriage problem far more than a financial problem and I hope you guys can figure it out and align on on some vision for your future.

[A]

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pro. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance. Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would find what you [e-mail] insurance.

[B]

Well guys, the Memorial Day sale is here but it's only here for four days. So take control before the summer hits. We have real tools, real life change at your disposal here. Get two hardcovers and assessments for just $20. It's this weekend only so you can get two hardcover books and assessments for $20. I like that.

[C]

A little bundle.

[B]

There's a little bundle going on. You could also get books. These are hard hitters guys. Heavy hitters. Baby steps millionaires. Come on. That's OG building a non anxious life from Dr. John Deloney. Breaking free from broke from George Camel. Right here the get clear assessment from Ken Coleman RIP and then the total money makeover from the goat Dave Ramsey. I'm telling you guys go to ramseysolutions.com store or quick the link in the description. If you're watching, remember the sale ends Monday. Monday. Monday. All right, not bad. We got Grace who's in Dayton, Ohio has. Hi, Grace. How can George and I help today?

[G]

Hi there. Good afternoon. So my question is regarding whether I should use my home equity to pay for college. I am a single mom to two teenagers ages 14 and 16. Do you recommend a HELOC for this type of situation? I owe 96,000 on the home and I have roughly 200,000 in equity.

[B]

Oh boy. Okay, so let me start with the empathy, which is I love that you're thinking about ways for your kids not to go into debt. I love that you're thinking about ways to pay for college that doesn't put the debt burden on them. However, putting it on you and your home and your place of safety and security is something that I would never, ever, ever recommend. And the reason is.

[G]

Okay, yeah.

[C]

That HELOC is like a credit card attached to your house. So you're going backwards. Now you've got a variable interest rate while putting you at risk for foreclosure if you miss payments. So you're trading this unsecured education debt for secure debt attached to your house.

[B]

Let's unpack that just a little bit more because I think it could be helpful for you and anybody listening. Guys, when you bought a house, you weren't thinking to your yourself, oh, if I buy this house, it would make a very good credit card for me. You bought the house thinking, this is a way that I can build wealth. This is a way that I can have security. This is a place of, do you see what I'm saying? Financial security and emotional security.

[C]

You're like resetting the clock on when you can retire now.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Which puts you at risk of you becoming a burden to your kids. So I, I want them to go to school debt free. But let's make a plan to take debt off the table and go, okay, what are all the ways, all the levers we can pull that don't involve debt? And that might mean they're going to work part time. It might mean they're going to go to a two year community college to knock out their prereqs. Maybe you can save in a 529 plan.

[B]

How old are they? Are they ready to go?

[G]

Right, right now they're 14 and 16.

[B]

Okay, so there's a little bit of time.

[C]

Have there been conversations about college plans and what they might want to do because they're still young enough that they don't know.

[G]

Yeah, they do know they would love to go to a four year school. So I'm just trying to figure out how I can potentially make that work for them.

[C]

And is that, do they have, do they want to stay in state? Because I would start to set some boundaries on hey, guess what school costs this much money. It's going to be $200,000 for you to get, go out of state to this quote unquote dream school or quote name brand school or you can go to the school down the road for 5,000 a semester so you can start to help them understand the math on this.

[G]

Yes, I'm with you. And I think they're very willing to go to a reasonable in state school. I'm just not even sure I can afford that lower cost route with, you know what I'm looking at.

[C]

You're not factoring in if they get scholarships, grants. And that's where the pressure's on to do really well in school, get really good, you know, grades on those, those SATs and maybe there's even athletic scholarships. I don't know what they're into. But I would be looking at every scholarship and grant possible. You saving up as much as you can in a college savings account like a 529 plan and having them choose an affordable school and possibly working part time and even working now to start saving up for that, doing community college

[B]

on that first, on those first gen eds is going to save you a of ton, ton, a ton. I wish I had done it if I had been able to. So that plus what George is saying, I mean that's how people, that's exactly how people do it. People call in all the time who paid cash for college and that's the way they do it. And I would say to George's point, don't be afraid to let them have some skin in the game. You know, this is the point, especially for the 16 year old applying for scholarships and creating an environment where they can be accepted for those scholarships that ought to be their full time job. You know, also while they're working at a supermarket or McDonald's or wherever else they're working. So them having skin in the game I think is actually really, really healthy for their college relationship because they'll value it more.

[J]

Okay, I like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And if you wanted some help with the conversation, you can go watch Borrowed Future. It's a free documentary we created. It's on our YouTube channel. Just search Borrowed Future and that will cause them to be asking questions and it will likely scare them away from going into debt for college. And so that way we can do the work for you. I also talk about this in my book Breaking Free from Broke. I have a whole chapter on student loans and at the end, how to go to college debt free. That's the goal. Because I don't want to set you back in retirement and you just take on the burden and go, well, at least the kids went to school debt free. Now I'm shackled to debt for the next 20 years.

[B]

Yeah. And I mean we see that not just with HELOC's grace, but even with folks doing parent plus loans. It's just, it really, really is. I think what it is is parent guilt in this case, mom guilt, where it's like, I don't want to be the reason that they go into debt

[C]

or I didn't do a good hard job.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And it reflects on me as a parent.

[B]

And the truth is I, I've said this before and I'll say it again. The ability to pay for college is a privilege both for the parent and for the, the child. If you're, there's plenty of people who meet us on down the line, their kids have already gone to school and they never, they didn't find Ramsey solutions in time to kind of create that pathway. And that's okay. Like we're all learning, we're all making mistakes. But I will say the most important thing that you can do, even more so than paying for the college, is just starting to have the conversation very early and very often on what the expectations are. So if you're just saying, hey, this is what my parents did for me. They said there is no college fund. We don't have the 529. If. Jade, if you want to go to college, you either need to be very smart or very good at sports. And they said that straight up. And I'll like, okay, got it. Let me, let me work on this. Yes. And kids, I, I think, I hate to say the word kids, teenagers, I think they, they're responsive to that. Especially if the, if it's the household that you brought them up in, which is, hey, we're responsible for ourselves and you know, we're self starters and that sort of thing.

[C]

So I was just at a local high school in, in Columbia, Tennessee and we just released this video on my YouTube channel. I asked high schoolers money questions they weren't ready for. Oh. And it was shocking to me, Jade, that I was the first person to be asking them questions like hey, what do you want to do after high school? Okay, what's that going to cost you? Well, do you plan on taking student loans?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

How much student loans? How much debt would you be willing to go into to get this degree?

[B]

And what were, was it crazy what they were saying?

[C]

Oh, they had one. Well, the funniest one was this girl wanted to be, she said, I want to stay at home. I went, that's sweet. You want to have kids? No. She said, no, I don't want kids. I said, you want to be a stay at home wife? I said, how will you spend your time? She said, shopping. And I, and I said, I wish you the best of luck with this plan and God bless the man who signs up for that. Oh, but a lot of the kids were just sort of like, well, college is the next step. Because I was told it's the next step. I don't really have a game plan. I hope I have a job on the other side that pays me enough to knock out my student loans and whatever other debt I have. And so it just a reminder that parents need to be having these conversations early and often. It should not be a YouTuber like me asking your kid for the first time time at 16 or 17 years how they're going to pay for college. What's the game plan? Why are they going? Because you heard her say, well, they just want to go to a four year school. Well, why? Because their friends are gone.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

Because the football team is great.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

That's the real reason kids are going. The brochures, they don't talk about how great the library is and the quality of education. They're showing you the water slides, the cafeteria, the football team. How exciting it's going be to, to be. That's how they market these things to get you to spend what you spend.

[B]

I also think another driver is just like the freedom. The way I get freedom is I go to college. Like I have to go away, then I can have a dorm room.

[C]

The further I go away, the better and also the more expensive.

[B]

Yeah, so true, George. Yeah. Having these conversations, so, so important. And again, if you're able to do a 529 and fund your kids college, that's amazing. What a privilege. That's fabulous. Good for you, good for them. But you're not, if you're not able to, that's also okay. As long as you're having these conversations. As long as you take debt off the table, totally fine to tell your kid, hey, you're going to work for this. I'm going to work for this. And you are, too. And you're going to work more.

[C]

And they may. They may not. Thank you now, but I promise you, when they're in their 20s and they look at all their friends with student loan debt, they're going to go, mom, thank you, dad. Thank you for allowing me to avoid student loans. Hey, do you ever get to Memorial Day weekend and wonder, how is it almost June, Summer's almost here. Why do I feel like I'm in the same spot? This weekend you can grab two hard cover books and assessments for 20 bucks. And that matters because summer chaos is about to ramp up and you want to keep your focus. Kids out of school trips, fourth of July party. Before it all gets wild, grab the books and tools that help you stay on track. So when it all hits, you are still on track. Two for 20. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com store.

[B]

Well, we're coming to the end of the line. So that means one thing. Scripture and quote of the day.

[C]

George can't miss it.

[B]

Galatians 6, 4, 5 says each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone without comparing themselves to someone else. For each one should carry their own load. Underline that.

[C]

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

[B]

You best check yourself before you wreck yourself. All right, Mark Twain, not Dr. Dre, said, A man cannot become comfortable without his own approval.

[C]

I'll chew on that.

[B]

Chew on that a little bit. Come on, Mark Twain. We were just on Dr. Dre, and here you come. All right.

[C]

The Dre of his time, some say.

[B]

All right.

[G]

Wow.

[B]

That really makes me want to laugh. Alex from Los Angeles is on the line. What's going on, Alex?

[D]

Hi, guys. Thank you for the Dr. J Shout out.

[C]

He's a real.

[H]

Yeah.

[D]

So I had a question basically for how. How do the baby steps involve a newborn baby that we had with my partner? And with those baby steps, what are the citing factors that decide who moves in with who? Is it who makes the most money? Is it who's closer to work? Is it who has the most family around? How does that all tie in together?

[B]

Well, they're definitely all factors.

[C]

A coin toss or a thumb war would be my favorite options.

[D]

Oh, man.

[B]

Are you guys getting married or tell us about the nature of the relationship

[D]

that is in the upcoming future? Getting married together, of course, having a strong family foundation to begin with. So again, yeah, that's in the line. And then just, I guess, just making sure that I do the best that I can for my family, whether it's saving the most money, whether it's moving into the cheapest city. I just want to see what guidelines are there for the baby steps and creating a family.

[B]

Well, are you and your partner in different cities? You've mentioned that a couple of times. Where are you and where is she?

[D]

It's about a 40 minute commute from the. Both cities.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, we'll keep that confidential. My. I, I want to get to your question and I, I don't want to sidetrack it, but I'm kind of like, why not just get married, like, solidify it. The baby's here. There's no question you're going to be living together and starting a family together. I think, George, that that would be top on my list first and then I'd be looking, looking at spots.

[C]

We can have the party later. But why not? If you mean if, if we are, we're doing this thing, we're in this together for life with this new baby, why not just go down to the courthouse, get the marriage certificate and, and have some protections in place for both of you?

[D]

Definitely. I, I feel like that would definitely make the household stronger income as well. You know, we can, you know, get combined incomes and exactly get our goals going. Get the baby steps knocked out. But, but yeah, definitely. She's not really into this, like, mindset, like saving money and, you know, building a good foundation. So I guess that's kind of. What, what is she into coming with me, like working, going home, buying stuff, jewelry, things like that.

[B]

Got it. Okay.

[C]

Are you the saver? How much money do you have?

[D]

Yeah, I'd say so. About a couple 15, a 20.

[C]

And do you have any debt?

[D]

Yes, I do. I'm working on paying that off. Yes, it's about 20 in total.

[H]

So. Yeah.

[B]

What she have, do you know?

[D]

I don't know. That's kind of, you know, on her side of the court. We haven't been as vocal financially, but she does know that I have this mindset of getting towards that end of the baby steps. But again, I don't want to scare her away and be like, oh, man, if I move in with him, can

[C]

we be real, Alex? You guys made a baby together. I think, I think it's time to get real with each other.

[B]

Well, how new is the newborn? How young is this baby?

[D]

One month.

[H]

One month.

[B]

I will say this come at me in the comments, but if you have this conversation with a one month old and she's still riding high on hormones and whatever, it may not end well for you. Tonight. So I might spend the next one to two months and gather my information and journal and think through what it is that I want to say and kind of you do some self preparation, give her some time to kind of adjust to life, then have the conversation, ease into it.

[C]

Postpartum is real.

[B]

It's a real thing. You're talking to somebody who was crazy.

[C]

So was she working before?

[D]

She was, but she's been off leave ever since, so about a month with no work. I went back to work two weeks after she.

[H]

She was born.

[C]

So how is she covering her bills and the baby right now?

[D]

Through her savings that she might. That she has. She did tell me she has a little bit saved and she also has family leave, so I don't think she's lost too much of her income.

[C]

Okay, what's the expectation of you chipping in and helping pay for things?

[D]

Well, I mean, if she moved in with me, I'd be covering the rent from. For both of us together and my daughter, you know, just leading the household in a sense, putting food on the table.

[B]

How long did. Can I just ask, and no judgment. How long did you guys know each other before the baby, before the pregnancy? A few years. Okay, so you, you know her. Okay.

[D]

Yeah, definitely. We've been. Yeah, she. She loves my family. I know her family.

[B]

Okay, good, good, good.

[H]

Yeah.

[C]

And you, do you live near where you work? You work in an office?

[D]

I do, yes. I. I got promoted recently as well. I start a new position in two weeks. So what are you making of my 90?

[C]

Awesome. And what was she doing and what is she making?

[D]

The same thing, but she's making 70.

[C]

Okay. And she does plan on going back to work at this point.

[G]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, well, I mean, it's a discussion for you two to have as far as who's going to go where and what the commutes are like. There's some logistical pieces of this that I would factor into the equation and, you know, what is she paying for rent? What are you paying for rent? How much can we afford together as a whole family, as we do a budget together? And again, I would not combine incomes until you're married, and I would get married very soon so that we can combine our lives fully because until then, this is just going to be messy and awkward. Venmoing each other.

[H]

Definitely.

[B]

The things I'd be thinking about as priorities in deciding, I'd be thinking about if we need family around for childcare, then whoever's closest to the family who has been said that they would help I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about the place with the lower rent, because if something happens and she becomes more attached than she thought she was going to be and decides, you know what, I kind of do want to be home more, having a lower cost of living is going to behoove you. So those are the two things that stick out to me right away as being, like, possible drivers on this. I don't think the size of the apartment would be as big of a driver because, you know, if you decide to have more children down the line, you can always move that. That's fine. But I think those top two tend to be the ones that it's like, okay, daycare is always a big ticket thing, so having family is so important. And then, of course.

[C]

Yeah, and lease agreements as well, like, who signed up for what, how much time is left on the lease? Can we get out early? Which one has the least amount of damage if we exit early? And so I would be looking into all those factors, and those are things you can do now kind of on your own. You know, you can ask her for some details without getting into the weeds. But there's gonna be a lot of logistics here to figure out. And again, it's just gonna simplify everything. If we can combine our life, be married. It's just one team, one dream, One

[B]

team, one band, one sound. Remember Drumline?

[C]

Nick King? I missed that one.

[B]

You've never seen Drumline. Have we had this discussion?

[C]

I think we didn't. I think you judged me last time we had this discussion.

[B]

They probably did. Listen, the movie's not all that good.

[C]

Do I look like a guy who. Who would enjoy Drumline?

[B]

Yeah, it's HBCU centered.

[C]

Well, it's more the I don't do band stuff.

[B]

You do bands?

[C]

Yeah, I'm punk rock.

[B]

All right, Bon Iver.

[C]

There we go.

[B]

Are you happy that I said it the right way?

[C]

Thank you for not saying Bon Iver. You're offensive to all people groups.

[B]

Oh, well, let it be known that I have said it that way as well, and I believe you were the one who corrected me, so.

[C]

Oh, that's great.

[B]

You live and you learn. All right, do we want to take Jessica, or can we. Can we get to it?

[C]

Can we take a social question? We have some great ones here.

[B]

All right, Jessica, call us back tomorrow. I promise we'll get to you. But if people. Let me just say this. People don't know this. The Ramsey show is on the radio as much as it is on YouTube. And so we have a clock guys that we have to hit. We have to go to break at a certain time. We have to do all that. So don't be mad at us.

[C]

The segments are like exactly 8 minutes and 34 seconds. And it's our job to police that and try to get in and out.

[B]

And that's why sometimes it's like we feel like we don't take as much time. Don't be mad at us. It's just the clock. We have to make the radio folks happy too.

[C]

Well, we got less than a minute. What do you got for me?

[B]

All right, should we include our child's 529 accounts as part of our. As part of our net worth or not, since they're going to be spent eventually.

[C]

Oh, that's a fun one.

[B]

I like that question.

[C]

You can include it for now, but I wouldn't include it as far as your nest egg and retirement projections. But yes, it is an asset and who knows if they'll actually use all of it.

[B]

Yeah, and it's growing.

[C]

On accounting terms, it all counts. But I would not count it as far as my future financial plans.

[B]

Do you think about yours when you, when you sit at night and you ponder your network?

[C]

I do. You know, well, I check it to see where it's at because every month I contribute. So I like to see the number go up and to the right. That does make me feel good about my kids futures.

[B]

I agree. I see what you did there. Pardon the pun. Well guys, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.