You’re Either Building Wealth or Losing It

Summary

The Ramsey Show: “You’re Either Building Wealth or Losing It”

Date: October 16, 2025
Host: Rachel Cruze (with Jade Warshaw and occasional appearances by Dave Ramsey)
Theme: You’re either moving forward with your money or sliding back. Today’s episode tackles real callers’ everyday dilemmas, offering straight talk and encouragement on how to gain — and maintain — control of your financial life, no matter your starting point.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Rachel Cruze and Jade Warshaw provide practical, often tough-love advice to callers dealing with complicated family property issues, overwhelming debt, emotional money relationships, and pivotal financial decisions. Key themes include: setting boundaries with family, facing consequences for financial choices, how and when to get intense about debt payoff, and why staying in your financial lane is crucial for building real wealth.

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. Family Home Ownership and Legal Messes

(00:43 – 09:01)

• Caller Drew had a family property legally transferred to him to protect it from creditors, but now parents expect him to "pay them back" despite their life residency and his lack of benefit.
• Jade and Rachel stress the importance of detaching from international legal entanglements (in this case, under German law) where you have no control or benefit.
  • Key advice:
    • Try to legally unwind the arrangement, even if it means giving up the asset.
    • "I would not want my name on a deed or a situation that I have no control over or I'm not around." – Rachel, [08:32]
  • Memorable moment: Rachel and Jade navigate the emotional undertones ("you're housing your parents out of obligation") and reinforce that it’s okay not to pay for an asset you don’t use.
  • Final conclusion: Get a lawyer who knows German real estate and family law – ASAP.

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2. The True Cost of Backtracking on Debt-Free Living

(10:35 – 19:55)

• Caller Josh: Paid off his home, but took out a $105k HELOC for a remodel, now stuck making slow progress because of other life choices (private school for 4 kids, etc.).
• Jade and Rachel walk through Baby Steps, reminding Josh he’s "back to Baby Step Two" and should pause all investments and college savings to attack the $65k debt with urgency.
  • Notable quote:
    • “You’re living like you’re on Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6, but you’re not. You’re back to Baby Step Two, which means beans and rice, rice and beans.” – Rachel, [14:08]
  • Jade calls out Josh’s hesitation (“you’re averse to paying off debt... you’re trying to kick the can down the road”) and presses him to get intense.
  • Memorable moment: Josh confesses he was afraid Dave Ramsey would be harsher; Rachel tells him, “I’m nicer than him, though! I’m at least saying it with a smile.” [17:06]
  • Takeaway: Don’t rationalize keeping slow or risky loans — when you go into new debt, commit to paying it off as fast as possible, no matter your past progress.

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3. When Your Friends Don’t Practice What They Preach

(22:35 – 31:45)

• Caller Sarah struggles with jealousy and frustration toward a friend who claims to follow the Ramsey plan but behaves oppositely (buying luxury vehicles, leveraging debt).
  • Jade and Rachel recommend detaching emotionally from friends’ financial decisions and focusing energy inward.
  • “Just—mind your business and pay off your debt. And if she says she’s on the Baby Steps, you just smile that sweet Kentucky passive-aggressive smile and nod.” – Rachel, [25:21]
  • They explore deeper friendship questions: Does resentment stem from comparison or underlying tension? Would boundaries strengthen your sense of peace?
  • Advice: Stop policing others’ money choices, focus on living out your values, and only worry about children/vulnerable parties if they suffer as a result.

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4. Balancing Career, Family, and Major Life Transitions

(34:38 – 40:16)

• Caller Morgan: Planning for a potential stay-at-home transition; husband was laid off and may have to take a lower-paying job.
  • Rachel and Jade recommend:
    1. Test-run living on one income now—before it’s necessary.
    2. Don’t assume an automatic pay cut; job transitions can go either way.
    3. Review all real expenses and geographic cost-of-living before making permanent changes.
  • Notable quote:
    • “Be aggressive … don’t just assume he’s going to make less.” – Rachel, [38:04]

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5. Safe 401k/IRA Rollovers & The Value of Professional Help

(40:23 – 42:30)

• Caller Trenton: Has multiple old 401(k)s, wonders whether to merge into an IRA.
  • Rachel: Yes, consolidate for simplicity.
  • “Have a financial planner in your corner. … It’s so helpful.” – Rachel, [41:43]
  • Jade emphasizes professional guidance becomes more important as your portfolio and age grow.

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6. Nightmare Spousal Student Loan Situations in Second Marriages

(44:40 – 52:43)

• Caller Donna: Married a man with $340k in federal student loans due to fraud, default, and ballooning debt. All assets are hers, minimal joint savings, no prenup.
  • Jade and Rachel delicately press on issues of trust, fairness, and marital unity—”You need to sit with somebody and work through this... It feels like you’re just taking care of this guy.”
  • Solution: Sell a property, pay it off, but—more importantly—seek couples counseling to address relational imbalance.

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7. Surviving Catastrophic Divorce Debt & Single Parenting

(54:54 – 64:27)

• Caller Hannah: Recently divorced with two children; single parent, stuck with $200k in debt after an abusive marriage.
  • Rachel/Jade’s counsel:
    • Focus on four walls (food, shelter, utilities, transportation, daycare).
    • Triage through smallest debts; see if a credit union or family member can help her unload her high-payment vehicle.
    • Provided Hannah access to a Ramsey financial counselor for step-by-step support.
  • “Your credit is already wrecked; find a little freedom in that—it can’t get worse.” – Jade, [60:47]

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8. When (Adult) Kids Drain Your Resources

(86:57 – 94:41)

• Caller Sandra: Has given her 47-year-old son $35,000 over the last few years; he’s bankrupt, has addiction history, and is not changing.
  • Jade: “If he were truly on the other side of this behavior, he would be initiating those conversations with you...” [91:03]
  • Rachel: “You could give him $135,000 and it’s not gonna help him.” [91:15]
  • They reinforce: Don’t enable adults, especially when patterns show no progress. Help his child directly if she is suffering.

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9. More Lightning Round Caller Highlights

• HEALTH INSURANCE:

  • Young and healthy? High-deductible plans with HSAs make sense.
  • “If you’re not in and out of hospitals, go for it.” – Jade, [78:00]

• "SHOULD WE WAIT TO HAVE KIDS?”

  • There’s never a perfect time, but if waiting brings anxiety instead of peace, maybe you’re ready now.
  • “You should feel good about the decisions you’re making. And if you’re not, make a different decision.” – Rachel, [100:45]

• FINANCIAL MISTAKE RECOVERY:

  • Woman took out $60k of loans for ex-boyfriend’s business—left with balance, no contracts. Best to keep hustling (she’s paid $40k off), move forward, and never do it again.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Normal is broke, and common sense is weird.”
– Rachel Cruze, [00:12]

“You’re living like you’re on Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6, but you’re not. You’re back to Baby Step Two.”
– Rachel Cruze, [14:08]

“Don’t try to fix your friend. Fix yourself. Mind your business and pay off your debt.”
– Jade Warshaw, [24:53]

“I would not want my name on a deed or a situation that I have no control over.”
– Rachel Cruze, [08:32]

“If he’s not paying, he needs to get a job. He needs to go work at Target or something.”
– Rachel Cruze, [93:42]

“You know your credit’s already wrecked; find a little freedom in that—it can’t get worse!”
– Jade Warshaw, [60:47]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Family Property Tangled Legal Mess – 00:43 – 09:01
• HELOC and Baby Steps Realignment – 10:35 – 19:55
• Friends Who Don’t Practice What They Preach – 22:35 – 31:45
• Planning for Career/Familial Change – 34:38 – 40:16
• 401k Rollovers – 40:23 – 42:30
• Student Loan Ruining Second Marriage – 44:40 – 52:43
• Overwhelming Divorce Debt as a Single Mom – 54:54 – 64:27
• Adult Son Still Taking Mom’s Money – 86:57 – 94:41
• Lightning Round: Health Plans, Kids, Loan Mistakes, Financial Hope – 77:25 – end

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Tone

The episode features classic Ramsey tone: direct, empathetic, sometimes tough-love, but always focused on practical steps and encouragement. Listeners are reminded that mistakes are normal, boundaries are healthy, and hope is possible—even if you’re untangling years of bad decisions.

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Final Takeaway

Every dollar you earn is moving you forward or pulling you back. Don’t get stuck in “normal”—be weird, be intentional, and don’t let guilt, fear, or family drama dictate your financial journey. Wealth is built one wise (and sometimes hard) choice at a time.

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Want more support? Take the next step:

• Find a SmartVestor Pro at ramseysolutions.com
• Try a free budgeting workshop (ramseysolutions.com/workshop)
• Take the Baby Steps quiz for a personalized plan

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“There’s ultimately one way to financial peace, and that’s to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.” – Rachel Cruze, [126:57]

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Rachel Cruze]

Normal is broke, and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show, and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author Jay Borcha. And we're here to answer your question. So give us a call at 888-25-5225. First, we have Drew in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey, Drew. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

[Caller]

Quick background before I state my question. Fifteen years ago, my parents went broke and transferred their house to me for a symbolic dollar to keep it from the bank. The transfer was legal. The contract gives them a lifelong right of residence, but doesn't require rent. They only pay property taxes and upkeep, meaning no positive cash flow on my end. They also verbally agreed to pay off the remainder of the mortgage. Because of that, they have always acted as if the house was still theirs, allowing people to live in parts of the house and remodel sections without my knowledge. And I'm okay with that. Now, after their court case ended last year, they're expecting me to pay for the house. And my question is, am I required to pay them if I want to keep the house?

[Jade Warshaw]

So they would be moving out in this deal? They would be moving out, and the house would go to you.

[Caller]

No. The life. Wrong. Residency. Right. Of residency keeps them in there, and I'm okay with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right, but you said that they. It sounded like you were saying they want you to pay for the house, which means they would move. Correct?

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or they want to live there while you pay for it.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, geez. How much is. How much is the house worth, drew?

[Caller]

More than 500k.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 36.

[Rachel Cruze]

36. Do you have a family?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, and so everyone's living in the house together?

[Caller]

No, we actually living in a different country. That house is not in. Is not in Texas. In Fort Worth.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, so your family is in a different country. Explain it again. I'm confused.

[Caller]

Yes. So I and my family, my wife and our kids, we are living. We are here in Texas.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And my parents, they live in that house in a different country.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. So what. What is. Go ahead.

[Caller]

Now, as the court case ended last year, that raised the questions. The question, how do we proceed? And they verbalize the expectation That I pay if the house, If I keep the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Caller]

And my, my question is, yes, I would like to keep the house, and the transfer was legal, but I, I, I don't think, to be honest, to be required to pay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I think if you're going to keep the house, you should be living in it or to, you know, deciding.

[Rachel Cruze]

Using it in some way.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah. As opposed to you keeping it just for ownership purposes and them living in it. Now, if you were to keep it, would you require them. Let's say you did keep it. You kept the, you know, you took over the mortgage. Would they pay you rent or they would pay zero.

[Caller]

I don't know.

[Rachel Cruze]

And why would you pay for a house, Drew, that you're not, that you're not living in at all? I mean, you, you have no financial gain at all from this, and it's in a different country. What country is it in?

[Caller]

It's in Germany.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

So the point is, I would like to keep the house to generate workflow, cash, positive cash flow after they moved out, probably. And I'm okay with them living in the house after they, they pass away. The point is, okay, at that point, I would generate. I would generate positive cash flow at that point, and I do not intend to live in that house. I think it's an asset for me to generate pass.

[Jade Warshaw]

I hear what you're saying, but here's what it sounds like. It sounds like the number one thing you're concerned about is having a place for your parents to live and providing that otherwise, if that wasn't number one on your list, you would sell that house and buy a house here in the States to do the 500,000. Yeah, that's in Fort Worth.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So Germany.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't think that having a rental property is your number one goal. I think somewhere along the lines, you feel the need to house your parents. And I think that's the real conversation here. Right?

[Caller]

Yes, I think you nailed that. Yes, I am concerned about them as far as I want them, or I agreed to the lifelong right of residence in the contract, and I honor that. So. But I do not see any reason why I should pay them now, as the house is technically and, and legally mine, that I should pay them back for the house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is the house paid off?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how much do they want you to pay back?

[Caller]

We did not talk about that yet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. It just sounds like, Drew, there's a lot of details that you guys haven't talked about. If I were in your shoes today, this is very Messy. And if I were in your shoes, I'd say, guys, you know, thanks. You know, you guys included me in this, but I don't want to be included anymore.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I was going to say, can you. From a legal standpoint, because I'm a little bit unfamiliar. I guess that's German law. The lifelong resident. I mean.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. Of residence. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, I'm not 100% sure on that, Drew. So my question is, is there any way legally you can get it out of your name, give it back to them, and then they leave it to you when they pass as a. As, you know, their estate? Is there a way just for you to be completely out of the situation just while they're alive and let them have their house? And they've paid for it. Right? They paid it off, Right. Not you.

[Caller]

Yes. Yes, they did.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so there is a way. Yes. So is there any way? Just let them live in their house. But you don't need to pay them. I don't think you need to pay them because you're not living in it and you're not selling it, and it's not your asset. Yeah. So if I. Yeah, so I. Yeah, if I were you, I would see, even legally, if there's a way to get your name out of this whole suit. Yes. Because for some reason, if they fall behind on property tax or whatever it looks like for them, if there's any catch all for you, Drew, then you're here in Texas. You know, your parents, they paid for the house, all that. So, no, I don't think you need to pay them back. But if it's in your name, I could see how they're thinking, okay, they don't have any control. Control. And they don't have anything to their name at that point. And if they get in a bind, they have no assets, but yet they paid for a house, so it is theirs, right?

[Caller]

Yes, they paid for the house, but legally, they transferred it to me for a dollar.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, they did. So either. Either you transfer it back for a dollar, can you do that?

[Caller]

No.

For 120,000 taxes.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's the limit. Like, that's the minimum that you can do.

[Caller]

No, if I would transfer it back to them, according to the law, German law, at this point, they would pay 120,000 in property, in selling, in taxes, selling taxes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. So the only way then. Oh, boy. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, it is a mess. And I almost would find some kind of legal way to write this up. I don't know how you would do that. But, But I don't. Yes, they paid for the house. You didn't pay anything for the house, yet you were given a $500,000 gift. And then they're like, well, it was.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's remember, it wasn't a gift. It was to shield them from, like.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Negative behavior. It sounds like.

[Caller]

So my, My, my position would be, I think I've paid far more already than the house is worth because a few months after I signed the contract, I discovered that I had lost eligibility for government financial aid for a college degree.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, you gotta get with a lawyer to get out of this.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. At that point, then you're tangled in a mess. But I would not want my name on a deed or a situation that I have no control over or I'm not around. That would be my number one for you, Drew.

[Dave Ramsey]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, I used to be one of those guys.

[Jade Warshaw]

I didn't even think about it.

[Caller]

And one of my buddies said, hey.

[Rachel Cruze]

The only reason to not have life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Rachel Cruze]

And.

[Caller]

Oh, you're telling me.

[Jade Warshaw]

And for decades, Dave, I've sat across.

[Caller]

People who've lost a spouse, they've lost.

[Rachel Cruze]

Somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me, too.

[Rachel Cruze]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here, and, you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Caller]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like, term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses.

[Rachel Cruze]

So your family can actually have the.

[Jade Warshaw]

Opportunity to just be sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

To just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff, Zander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Rachel Cruze]

Up next, we have Josh in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Josh. Welcome to the Show.

[Caller]

Hi, Rachel, how are you?

[Rachel Cruze]

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, I had a question about converting a home equity line of credit over to like a 12 or 15 year mortgage, because we're not making any progress. We're just paying interest only right now and will for the foreseeable future.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Because of the payment and you what, that's what you guys can afford or what?

[Caller]

We pay a ridiculous amount for private school education for four kids, and that's kind of locked down our monthly, I guess, ability to make any progress.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much is the HELOC and how much is the tuition for the four kids?

[Caller]

Sure. So the, like the interest only payment or how much do we owe on the heloc?

[Jade Warshaw]

Why don't you tell me both? What's the total amount and how much do you pay every month?

[Caller]

Sure. So we owe $65,208. And then our minimum, our interest only payment each month is right around 450 kind of fluctu rates because it's a variable rate. And then our monthly monthly payment for private school is $3,704.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what's your income between you and your wife?

[Caller]

Sure. So it just changed. My wife just went back to work this year. So she'd been out of work raising the kids. Not out of work. Jeez, how insensitive. No, she, she was at home with the kids and just went back to work a month ago. So that just added about $1,000 a month. So our total take home and. Sorry, 11,500 right around there.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what's your mortgage payment?

[Caller]

We don't have one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, it's paid. Your house is paid off. Why'd you, why would you take the HELOC out on? To do what?

[Caller]

To do. We lost our minds. We. We paid off the house. We were completely debt free, and we were working baby steps 4, 5, and 6. And then I had some really good ideas, and it turns out they're terrible ideas. And we borrowed 105,000 for a home remodel and then spent the rest in cash.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, but still you were. You're making 11,500. School is 3,000amonth total, right?

[Caller]

3,730. 700.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, still. So you're at 7,000amonth, you have no mortgage. Where's the problem here? To pay 450amonth or more, you could pay $1,000 a month to pay off this HELOC.

[Caller]

Yeah, it would just take forever.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's the problem. Okay, now, Rachel, now we got to the bottom of it. It has nothing to do with the payment. It has to do with the fact that you're like, I'm tired of paying this. Can't I just roll it into my mortgage or create a mortgage out of it?

[Rachel Cruze]

Which would be a difference, though, for you, Josh. Like, what's the interest? It's all the same. Is it just the interest that you're worried about?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

It said we're not making any progress, interest only. So we're not making a dent in the 65,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

So how much extra could you pay? Is say you did convert it to a mortgage, how much extra would you find to pay to pay it? Because if you kept it at 450, I'm not going to be. How much?

[Caller]

500Amonth.

[Rachel Cruze]

Where's all your money going, Josh? I'm confused.

[Caller]

I mean, can you guys log into my EveryDollar app?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I know. I kind of want to.

[Jade Warshaw]

You log in. Why don't you log in and tell us?

[Rachel Cruze]

You're living like you're on baby steps four, five, and six, but you're not. You guys are back to baby step two, which means beans and rice. Rice and beans. And you're doing nothing. Nothing but paying down the 65,000. This could be a student loan. This could be a car. You could throw any type of debt on this. That's what this is. And you guys are back to that starting point.

[Jade Warshaw]

But it doesn't need to be a mortgage.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I mean, just like, live on nothing. You don't have a house payment. Like.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm laughing because it's kind.

[Rachel Cruze]

Shop at Aldi. Shop at Aldi. Don't go out to eat, don't go on vacation, cut subscriptions, do nothing until this is paid off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. And you've got the income to do it.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, you gotta at least find 2,000 out of this.

[Caller]

I mean, not really. When we look at the numbers and where we're allocating funds, like contributing to the Roth.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, stop it, Josh. Stop it. You're on baby step two, Josh. You're not on baby steps four, five and six. Stop the kids college. Stop retirement, all of it. And get this $65,000 paid off. You got.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because, Josh. Because what are you. You're wanting to convert it to a mortgage and then put it, what, in baby step six and then just kind of slowly, like, just get rid of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's what he wants to do.

[Caller]

Yeah. Because then with the extra, if we paid, you know what, we're paying right now for it in addition to here's.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why I don't like that for you. Here's why I don't like that for you, because you already. I don't like you putting it into a mortgage, because now this is risk on your home. Right. And I don't like this because you're already, like. It sounds like you're averse to paying off debt. So this is a can that you're going to kick down the road for a really long time. And I think you're trying to put yourself in a position where you can kick the can down the road.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Because you guys make how much a year.

[Caller]

Right now? About 145 before.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Because kind of our rule of thumb, Josh, is if. If a HELOC is over half of your annual income, then we say you can roll it into your primary mortgage, but it's not. It's less than half of it. So it's got to be on baby step two.

[Caller]

Oh, and I'm 46 and stopping retirement right now.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're 46 and. Sorry, took out a hundred thousand dollars that you borrowed on your home. Like, I don't.

[Jade Warshaw]

That should make you more intense that the fact that you said, oh, my gosh, I'm 46. I took out this HELOC. I have to pause retirement. That should make you go, holy crap, I gotta get my butt in line and I gotta, like, go. And instead you're like, josh, get this.

[Rachel Cruze]

Paid off in two years. Get it paid off in two years. Yeah, I mean, that. That you. Yeah, you called. I think you're. I think you were enjoying the ride of baby steps 4, 5, and 6. Then you went back in debt, which takes you back to baby step two.

[Caller]

I wanted to call because of that, because I was afraid Dave was gonna answer and then I was gonna get destroyed.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm nicer than him, though. I'm so glad I'm at least saying it with a smile.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

No, it's awful.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I'm not saying to make you feel bad.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, Josh. I know. I just want to. I want to. I need you. I'm trying to shake you back into reality of where you are financially.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And so that's where you guys are. And so you got to go back in that mindset, and. And y' all paid off your house. Like, you guys can do this. You guys can do this. And I know that it's not fun, but I'm like, when you have that all paid off, you're not even going to have to worry about this. And I think you can do it in two, two and a half years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And if your wife works extra, if she makes double what she's making now, instead of $1,000 a month, there you go. People do that on a side hustle. Right. I'm like, have her go back more full time. Yeah.

[Caller]

I've been doing real estate for 10 years. And so right now, with working full time, I do about six to eight transactions a year in real estate. So if. If that comes through and if that continues, we could. If we went back to step two, it's just not. We can't count on it. Okay. So baby step two, finally.

[Rachel Cruze]

I would.

[Jade Warshaw]

And final.

[Rachel Cruze]

Final answer. And again, just. I go. The math of it, then. The math doesn't have emotions, so it doesn't have my. Like, Josh, what did you do? It is half of your annual income is the heloc. And that's kind of just the rule of thumb around Ramsey. If it's half of it, you put it in baby step two. If it's more than that, you know, if you had. If it was at still $100,000, that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Would be a little different.

[Rachel Cruze]

Then it would be a little different, and we could talk about, you know, that. But I think it's just the. It's the pain of. It's the pain of the consequences of going backwards, of course. And that feeling that. And that's what happens, you know, and people, you know, listening. Right. That happens to people because of, you know, a job loss. They go through their emergency fund. They can't replace an income. They go back into debt. Like, sometimes it happens because of life happening to you. Josh, I love you. But sometimes it's us choosing to make decisions.

[Jade Warshaw]

The kitchen. The new kitchen.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, yes. And so that's why you got.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And the heloc. And I bet. I bet it. Cause he said, I think they started at 100, 120 or something. Yeah. So, I mean, they've knocked some of it down, which makes me think they got it a few years ago during the COVID Oh, yeah. 20, 21, 20, 22. When. When HELOCs just became so popular because everyone's at home being like, okay, let's get a pool.

[Jade Warshaw]

And everybody's mortgage doubles.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, that's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Their value.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. You get all this equity, and you're like, okay, I can use this. But that's the problem. And then also hear the pain, you guys, of. Of the. Of the variable rate. The variable rate.

[Jade Warshaw]

It.

[Rachel Cruze]

The heloc it's all, yes, it is up and down and it kind of rides that wave and, and all the formulas of even how they, how they get it. So just cash flow, these things, you guys, and it takes longer. It's not as fun, it may not be as beautiful, but at least you can afford it that you're living within your means. So, Josh, we are cheering you guys on. Call us back in two and a half years.

[Jade Warshaw]

I hope it's sooner.

[Rachel Cruze]

And do your another. Do another debt free scream.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruze]

Well, thank you for all of you that join us, whether it's on YouTube, podcasts, Spotify, radio, all of it, we appreciate it. And one of the best things that you can do for us is help spread the word. So make sure to, like, subscribe, share our episodes with your friends and your family because we want everyone to be able to start to learn how to get control of their money and how to do this area of their life well. So that's always helpful for us, but we're always so thankful to you guys. All right, up next, we have Sarah, who is in Kentucky. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks so much for having me on.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're so welcome. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Okay, so my best friend claims to essentially live by the Ramsey method, but nothing they do is like, Ramsey approved, I guess you could say.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, no. What do they do, Sarah?

[Caller]

Well, okay, so since I'VE been friends with her, which was starting at the beginning of the year. Like they have owned like four or five different vehicles. Like they're constantly buying and trading and, and they claim they make money off of these vehicles. And I'm thinking like buying a ninety thousand dollar vehicle to make four grand doesn't make sense.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, are they paying cash for it?

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, why does it, what do you, what do you care?

[Caller]

Because it kind of drives me crazy, so. Because I know like what they're doing. Like they just went out and bought $120,000 Escalade. And I literally was like, you all could have paid off half of your mortgage for what you just spent on this car. She says, well, I get too many tax deductions from having a house. I don't want to paid off mortgage.

[Jade Warshaw]

So she doesn't follow the Ramsey plan. But you do?

[Caller]

Yes, I have. Yes. I've started listening to you all in the last few months. I've just got my thousand dollars saved up and now I'm working towards. I've got like $3,000 of debt. So I'm working on that. But yeah, I, I listen to you guys every single day. I clean houses for a living and I'm a single mom, so I have nothing but time on my hands.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're amazing. Okay, so how can we, how can we help you?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm gonna help, I'll help you right now.

[Rachel Cruze]

What's your, what's, what's the. Well, yeah. What can we do for you today?

[Caller]

I, I struggle being their friends because of the lifestyle that they live.

[Rachel Cruze]

There you go, Sarah.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm gonna tell you what I tell my son all the time. Okay, So I can tell my son, Prince, go upstairs and brush your teeth. And the minute I say that, he's like, well, ZZ didn't brush her teeth. And he's always looking over at what she's. Because I've given him a responsibility and he wants to make sure that the other person has to do their responsibility as well. And I told her the other day, I said, you want to know what you need to do, Prince?

[Rachel Cruze]

Just mind your business, take care of yourself.

[Jade Warshaw]

Take care of yourself and mind your own business. And you know she'll get dealt with. Don't worry about that. I'm looking and I see what she's doing over here. You don't have to worry about that. Just mind your own business and go brush your teeth. And I would tell you the same thing, Sarah. Mind your own business and pay off your debt. And if she's your friend and she's like, well, I'm doing the baby steps too. All you have to do is say, no, you're not.

[Rachel Cruze]

Or just smile and just smile that sweet Kentucky Southern passive aggressive to smile.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nod, bless your heart.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's all you need to do. You just look at her and smile.

[Caller]

Stresses me so bad.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, okay. But you're. But it's not your bills. You know what I mean?

[Caller]

I know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Now, Sarah, I will say. I will say there is. And I don't want this to sound isolating this comment, but just the idea of when you shift your mind and you change your mind, you do start to want to gravitate towards people that are like minded.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's true.

[Rachel Cruze]

And so there may be a point. And I'm not saying you can't be friends with people in debt. Okay, my friend. I mean, like, if we lived by that, we would have probably no friends.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So it's not even that. It's not an isolating comment, but I think it's good self awareness to say, wow, I have changed the way I'm viewing this part of my life and people that are not congruent with it. I can feel this like, tension point. And man, it kind of sucks that I feel like I'm like, you know, growing in this area and other people aren't. And you're gonna probably feel that tension and over time does that naturally maybe, you know, start to separate you guys? I don't know. Maybe. Sarah, I have no idea.

[Caller]

I mean, we go to church together and everything. I feel like there's no getting away from her. I'll just be honest.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, do you want to get away from them for other reasons too? It sounds like maybe you do.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is she, like, just not a fun person? Because, yeah, if that's the case.

[Caller]

Well, no, I mean, we have a good time together, but like, she does not work or anything. Like, she has a little boutique she's been running on the side and she claims to make like 10 or 15 grand a month off of this business.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's wrong with that?

[Caller]

And I know that. What do you mean, what's wrong with it?

[Jade Warshaw]

What can I tell you? I'm your buddy right now. I'm gonna be your.

[Caller]

Y' all aren't gonna offend me, okay? I want y' all to be open.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think there's certain things that I'm tracking with you where I'm like, yeah, that could be a little bit annoying or, you know, yeah, she's wrong. But there are certain Things, Sarah, that you're saying, that actually sound a little bit like you're kind of hating on him a little bit.

[Caller]

I just. She's not considerate of, like, my life, if that makes sense. Like, she has nothing to do. She doesn't have a job or anything.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you said she runs a boutique. Her life is different from yours. And Sarah, she might, but she doesn't.

[Caller]

Sarah, like, she only does events.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's okay. Sarah, she could do less. She could be putting in less hours than you and making more money. Money than you. And you cannot hate on her for that. And Sarah, her and her husband can buy whatever cars they want. They can. And I get it that you don't like it, but that doesn't affect you. And you're letting it get too much in your life. And as much as you think that she's not being a good friend right now, you're also not being that great of a friend because you're hating on her a little bit. And this is just me being a good friend to you.

[Caller]

I don't. I don't want to feel like I'm. I don't want it to seem like I'm hating on them. It's just I know the lifestyle they live. And she, like. And she's. Well, we live a normal life. And I'm just like, no, you don't, though. Like, I just. We've only been friends for, like, nine months, so, I mean, it's. This is all kind of really new for me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think you. Here's what I think. I think you're a really hard worker, and I think you know how to grind, and I think you know how to. You know what I'm saying? Yep. You're willing to put in lots of work. You. You understand struggle. You. You're ready to get in the ring all the time. I can sense that about you. And I think it's irking you that somebody is acting like they're working as hard as you when you're like, no, you're not. And I get that.

[Caller]

She does. She does. And. And my friend Amanda from church, she's like, it's all about perspective with the work. And I get that. I do get that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, and Sarah. So I think. And I've had to do this for myself throughout the years, too, because when you're comparing your life to someone else, I wanted to blame the other person. And I, even in my head would sometimes be like, I bet they're on this trip to Europe on credit cards, and I bet they can't even afford, here I am and have to wait another six months. So we go on. You know, you make up a story about someone and I had to finally tell myself, Rachel, you don't know. You don't know how hard they work. You don't know how much money they actually make. You don't, you don't know. You don't know. And I shouldn't know. It's none of my business. And actually the problem is not them. It was me. It's me. In the comparison world, we want to blame social media, we want to blame the neighbor, we want to blame everyone else. But to be honest, it ends up being more of our issue. And so where can you get to a point, Sarah, that number one, you are confident in who you are and the choices you're making around money and your lifestyle, that when other people come up and that their lifestyle looks so different than you and, or you know, you have thoughts about it. If you get, could get to the point where you just think honestly, like, good, good for y', all, great job. Okay? And I get to move on because the amount of energy and effort that she's in your brain right now, like the rent free space that she has in your brain, Sarah, it's not worth it. Now, the friendship element, if Dr. John DeLoney was sitting here, we could have a relational conversation of, hey, she may not be somebody that you guys share similar values and I'm probably not.

[Caller]

She's not kept a lot of friends throughout. Like, she's not been able to ever keep friends for long term.

[Rachel Cruze]

And that's great to know. Then I would put that in your data, in your head of, okay, she may be a, she may be a hard person to love and be in relationship with and that's okay. But we can be kind, we can be curious and not judgmental. And y' all go to church. Sarah, let's, let's bring some of this peace and patience and kindness and goodness. Let's let the fruit of our faith live out and love people well, even though some people are hard to love. And as, as my dad says, some children of God are stupid children, right? Like there are some, but I think we can say it all but have a level of grace for her and yourself. And it's okay to have boundaries, Sarah. If you need to put up relational boundaries with her, that's okay too.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruze]

Well, it's crazy to think, Jade, but the new year, it's approaching. Oh my gosh, wild. We are, we are in that see that fall season where these months are going to fly. And I would encourage you guys not just to set goals in 2026, but learn how to reach them. And that's one reason we created the 2026 Ramsey goal planner. It is here and always packed as it has been in years past with great money content, great spiritual content, relational content. So myself, Jade and Dr. John DeLoney are all in and we've put our, our thoughts and everything around this planner because it is so important, especially those of you that love planners. You're going to love it because it has so much information. It has so many ways of calendars, weekly, monthly, like all you need, and a great planner. It is here and it is selling quickly. We only we don't have a ton left.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And once these are done, we do not reorder them. So we sell it every year. So do not wait. Get yours for [e-mail] store or if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcasts, we will put a link below. But again, go get your 2026 Ramsey goal planner before they sell out. All right, let's go to Morgan in Chicago. Hi Morgan, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi, thanks for having me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[Caller]

All right, so my husband was laid off a couple months ago and I was recently promoted and previously we were both making about 150,000 for a total of 300,000 for the household. And with my promotion, I'm going to be now making $182,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Congrats.

[Caller]

It's worth noting I work remotely and I have great work life balance. But as my husband starts to look for his next role and we look to start a family, my question is twofold. One, can I quit my job to become a stay at home mom? Lord willing. And two, if I can, how much would my husband need to make in order to sustain our family?

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so are you. Do you guys have kids right now?

[Caller]

We don't, no.

[Rachel Cruze]

But you're wanting to maybe start a family soon?

[Caller]

That is the hope.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, great. That's so fun.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm glad you're looking ahead. Do you guys own a house right now or where are you in the baby steps?

[Caller]

We do. We're in Chicago right now. We have a mortgage. We just refinanced. We're down to about $3,000. With our HOA a month, we might need to look to moving to his family from Pittsburgh and we might be thinking about moving there just as we look to grow the family.

[Jade Warshaw]

Whenever people call in. So I'll kind of tell you in reverse how this usually happens. Usually what ends up happen, happening is one spouse wants to stay home. And the biggest issue and the biggest barrier to that is their mortgage. Right. Because once they lose that other income, the mortgage, which was 25 of their take home, becomes 50 of their take home. Right. Yeah. So that's really one of the biggest pitfalls that if you can avoid that. Yeah. You're setting yourself up for success. So your income going up to 182 and his remaining at 150. Yeah. The question is, can you guys live off of 150 or whatever it is that you foresee his income to be in the next year or two whenever the family starts.

[Caller]

Right. And I think right now the issue is he was in consulting and that market has taken quite a hit and he's looking to move into a different industry. So he might have to take the CPA and a certified treasury professional. So we're hoping that those certifications will help him parlay into what he's looking to move into. But the likelihood is that he's probably going to be taking a pay cut, moving down into like the 90, $100,000 range. And so that would, it would change our lifestyle, how we tie. Yeah, everything about our budget.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a big, I mean, that's a $200,000 jump down.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you guys have any debt?

[Caller]

We don't Thankfully.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's.

[Rachel Cruze]

And why do you guys feel like he's automatically going to make less? Like, is there anything that. From what he's done in the past and you know what I mean? Like, why is there an industry that he can enter into that he loves and make more?

[Caller]

That would be, I mean, that'd be an answered prayer for sure. I'm definitely in the camp that I think he's got. He was eight years at a big four consulting firm, which people kill for that kind of experience. Yeah, I think when you're in consulting sometimes though, you're kind of a jack of all trades, a master of none. And so it's hard for him to find an industry role where he has the exact background that they're looking for. And the, the market's just bad.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Caller]

In general for hiring. So.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Well, the good thing is y' all are in a, you know, you're not in a rush. If anything, by next month, maybe you have nine months. Right. I mean, like, right. If it, if it happens quickly and if you guys decide to start now. But maybe you guys are like, well, hey, we'll wait. Or maybe it takes a little longer. We don't know. So the good thing is you guys have time. I, we just see on this show a lot and I'm going to sound like Dave because I feel like he went on this rant last time I was on the show with him, that this, it's like a self fulfilling prophecy of people that change jobs automatically think they're gonna make less. And so there's. And I'm not this like, person like, oh, just think it and it's gonna happen. It's not that. But be aggressive. Like have some level of gumption and confidence of like, oh, no, you do have. He does have experience. And like you just said, people would kill for that kind of experience. And I understand that it's a little bit more of a broad thing and he wants to go more specific. I get all that. But as you guys are looking, don't just assume, oh, he's gonna make less. So have him, you know, I mean, like, I don't know, I would have a little bit more pep in a step and belief in himself too, so that it's not an automatic pay grade. Number one. And then, yeah, number two, Morgan. I think you guys will have to make some calls when the reality really hits. I really appreciate you guys planning and thinking ahead, but when the reality actually sets in, when you become pregnant and all of that, that you're Going to really get to kind of crunch numbers and see, okay, are we gonna be able to afford to stay in Chicago? Are we gonna make the move now? You know, it's gonna answer, I think, a lot of questions depending on what job he takes. And I think, you know, my hope is within, yeah. That nine month period, he's gonna find something great.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. The best thing you could do is to test it before it's actually real. And I mean, it's gonna be hard with a $3,000 a month mortgage, but get a sense and say, okay, for the next two months, we're gonna live off of the, you know, the net amount of a hundred thousand dollars. And let's see what that feels like. And you have the luxury of testing that to see and just get a sense of it. And if you're like, oh, my gosh, this is not what I thought it was gonna be, then you can start talking about what does that mean? Right. So, yeah, test it. Put it in into real into real life.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's why. Thank you, guys. I appreciate that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep, absolutely. Morgan. Good luck to you guys. All right, up next, we have Trenton in Los Angeles. Hi, Trenton. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for having me. How you both doing?

[Rachel Cruze]

We're doing great. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So it revolves around 400 1k plans. I have like 3 of them from power companies that I've worked with. Would you guys suggest to. To bring them into one, like combine them into one or keep them as is, and if so, what's the smoothest way to do that? And is there any, like, investment firm or company that you would recommend putting them in?

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, I would roll them all probably into just one ira. Yeah, it's probably the easiest way from a tax position. And do you have a financial planner that you are working with in general?

[Caller]

No.

[Rachel Cruze]

No. Okay, so if you go to ramseysolutions.com, look up Smartvestor Pro, we have Smartvestors all over the country that do it the Ramsey way, if you will. And so they'll be able to help you not only just make that move, but hopefully too, Trent, look at your entire financial picture too, and just kind of get an idea. Because, yeah, there's always, when it comes to these kind of things, always the tax implications and everything. But usually the smartest way is to roll all prior 401s into an Iraq.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good question.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect.

[Caller]

Thank you so much.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. That's one thing, Jade. I feel like I have learned and become more and more A pro of is getting a financial planner in your corner.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

When you're on baby steps four, five and six and you are starting this process of building wealth and investing in retirement and all of it, having someone who does this day in and day out be able to look and to help with, you know, and if you're still listening, you know, put actually investing those things in good growth stock mutual funds and good index funds, like whatever that looks like diversifying and being wise about it, you know, if you have like one little investment and you want to do it on your own in Vanguard or something, you know, sure, no problem, that's fine. But there's something about someone looking over everything, especially once you're debt free and you're looking to pay off the mortgage and you're far down the baby steps. It is, it's so helpful.

[Jade Warshaw]

Especially as you get, I feel like as you get older, especially when you're thinking about maybe I can retire. What do I need to have in place if I think I'm going to retire early? Like all that stuff.

[Rachel Cruze]

Stuff, yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's so helpful.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. The estate planning and all of it. So yeah, Tritton, great, great question. Hope that helps. And yeah, we'll see you guys next hour.

[Jade Warshaw]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruze]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in The Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz, and we are going to the phones. First up, we have Donna in San Antonio. Hi, Donna. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks for taking my question. I appreciate it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely.

[Caller]

Okay, so my husband has a student loan that is currently in deferment. Been in deferment over 10 years. Prior to that, it was in default. It ballooned from 65,000 to 340,000. What we got. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Pretty scary.

[Caller]

I know. I know. There was some fraud involved. We tried to take care of it with some attorneys. We were not able to get anywhere. We're stuck with it. We got married four years ago. His situation is he's 66, close to retirement. He doesn't really have any assets. Not really. No savings. I'm 57, probably going to work for another five years. I've got about 1.4 million in investment assets which are own free and clear. We both have a joint account with Charles Schwab, which has about 200,000 in it, but it's fully funded by me. And then we have two other properties in both of our names. Couple of questions. How can I navigate negotiating this balance down for him? I'm willing to pay up to 100,000 for it. And how do I protect myself?

[Jade Warshaw]

Are they private loans or federal loans?

[Caller]

So they're federal loans.

[Jade Warshaw]

Gosh.

[Caller]

They were.

[Jade Warshaw]

They were.

[Caller]

Well, I believe they're federal loans. Yeah. I've had trouble with this. They were federal loans, and then they were consolidated.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So. And from what I understand, you know, I've been to so many different places, and I keep hitting a brick wall. It's like nobody can really give me the right answ. I've been told I. I can't negotiate.

[Jade Warshaw]

If they're federal, you can't negotiate. If they're private, you can. But if the whole lump of them. If that whole lump is federal, you owe what you owe.

[Caller]

So what? What's his best route? Does he just keep deferring it?

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[Caller]

I mean, he will never be able to pay these off. You know, he'll never be able to pay it.

[Jade Warshaw]

So. What. Tell me about the properties, because I. I'm going to.

[Caller]

What?

[Jade Warshaw]

Here? I'll tell you what Rachel and I are going to do, and then we'll explain it. We're going to approach this as any married couple would who is dedicated their lives to each other and has decided that they're one, meaning that they're one in life and money and all of those things. And then we can go back and trace it back if we need to. But let's talk about these properties, because what I think is somewhere in the assets between the two of you is the money to pay this off. I'm just.

[Caller]

There's. Yeah, there's definitely money. It's. I built this. I mean, we've only been married four years. All of those assets are mine. I mean, I've done what I needed to do, and I've built.

[Rachel Cruze]

How many marriages have you guys had in the past? Donna?

[Caller]

He's been married once before, and so have I.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so it's both second marriages. Okay. Did you do a prenup at all?

[Caller]

No, we didn't. We have our wills, but we didn't do a prenup.

[Jade Warshaw]

What. Can I ask a little bit about that? So I'm hearing you talk, and it sounds like you very much want to protect the wealth that you built, but you didn't sign a prenup, which makes me wonder about that. Like, how did you. How did you view that?

[Caller]

I didn't realize how, you know, I don't know. What can I say? We're soulmates.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, listen, that's good to know.

[Caller]

We're soulmates. And, you know, he's a wonderful man, and I'm not concerned about really protecting my assets from him. I'm more concerned about protecting my assets against somebody coming in and swooping in. A lender coming in and taking.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. Okay. So in that case, I loved hearing you say that because it sounded at first like when you said, oh, I'm only willing to put a hundred thousand towards this. It sounded like you were trying to keep your assets from him. Right. Like you didn't want to spend too much on his debt. That's the way it sounded at first, but now it sounds like. Like that's not the issue. And if that's the case, can you tell us about these properties? Because the money might be there to get free and clear of this.

[Caller]

It's all real estate, basically. And again, they're all own, free and clear.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much. How much are each of the properties?

[Caller]

How much am I into the properties? Probably, you know, five or six hundred thousand.

[Jade Warshaw]

So tell us.

[Caller]

Probably around five or six hundred.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell us Property one. What's Property one worth?

[Caller]

So I've got a condo, which is probably worth around 200,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

I've got another house, which is around 250. I've got another condo, which is probably also around 200,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are they all owned free and clear?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you. You've done Great. Donna, did you know about his debt going into the marriage?

[Caller]

I didn't. I knew. He. What happened is his, his wife, his previous wife handled all the finances. She was a stay at home. She did some funky stuff with her finances. And he did. He thought. He thought his student loans were paid off. He didn't realize until suddenly he didn't get a tax refund one year that he was in default. He didn't even know.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it.

[Caller]

So it really was like a big shock. And then, you know, he just. Sometimes men just ignore things. Yeah, it was. I think it was too emotionally overwhelming for him, and he pretty much just put it to the side. So I knew there was something I didn't realize.

[Rachel Cruze]

How many years did he put it to the side?

[Caller]

Probably about 13 years total.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. So there's. There's enough of a. That the shock has worn off and then we can address reality that he chose not to, though.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, now. Right. Does that bother you? Is that.

[Caller]

Of course it does.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

Of course it does.

Yeah.

Yeah, sure. But right now I'm committed to the relationship. I'm committed to my husband. And I want to figure out.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you guys are in your, what, 50?

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you say you're 57 and 66?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. He's 66. I'm 57.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And he has.

[Rachel Cruze]

Why does he have. No. What's he been doing like. Like with retirement and all that?

[Caller]

He pretty much gave everything to her in the divorce. Sort of one of those situations.

[Jade Warshaw]

He. He was like, no contest. Just give her what she wants.

[Caller]

Give her what she wants. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Is he working?

[Caller]

He works for me, actually. I have a business.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

So he does work for me. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much is he making?

[Caller]

We just have him making something like around 50,000. So we've been keeping it low. You know, we do, we do sort of, you know. W2 is real estate your business?

[Jade Warshaw]

Is that your business?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So there's. I hear two things going on here. I think you're committed to this guy. I, you know, great. I think that you need to reach over and probably sell one of these condos and then go into the joint funds and pay this thing off. That's probably the choice. Choice that I would make. I think, you guys, I'm worried that. And I'm. I'm going to say this ever so delicately. There's an. There's a balance of power here that is. Feels off.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I think that if you don't address certain things, it's going to cause issues down the line. And I think you need to sit with the couch. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Caller]

I think you need to understand that completely.

[Jade Warshaw]

You need to sit with somebody and work through this. Because it almost feels like you're kind of just taking care of this guy. And it shouldn't feel like that. You should feel like you're in a marriage where equal people are really contributing whatever it is they're going to contribute. But you should feel good about it.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[Rachel Cruze]

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[Jade Warshaw]

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[Rachel Cruze]

Up next, we have Hannah in Missouri. Hi, Hannah. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So I am recently divorced with two small children.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm sorry.

[Caller]

I was married to a guy that's been married three times before. I was stupid. I was young. Clearly. Clearly paying for it. Now. He has wrapped us into an insane amount of debt and I can barely keep my head above water. And I knew, divorcing him, that he would leave me with everything and not help with the children. That's exactly what he did. Sorry. It's taken me a while to try to figure out what to do. Now I have a nurse. I have worked. I have a pretty good job now. And I'm gonna lose everything because he's not paying for everything or helping me. So sorry. And he's doing it on purpose. I have $40,000 in business loans from his failed business because he talked me into the world and he did this to multiple women before. I have $40,000 in student loans. I have a $60,000 car. I'm left with from him because he had this lavish lifestyle and I just couldn't say no because we gave him what he wanted until he was happy. He has stopped paying for everything. I landed a pretty, pretty high paying nursing job and it's pretty pre. I'm. Right now I'm working two full time jobs to try to get this stuff paid off while paying for childcare by myself. I live in a small one bedroom with two small children. Just trying to get everything taken care of. And I don't qualify for Chapter 13 bankruptcy or 7. I qualified for 13, but at the highest payment plan, which is what I'm doing. Yeah, I have probably $200,000 in debt and I don't know if I need to just quit my job and give everything back or what I do.

[Jade Warshaw]

No. So this was at this hundred thousand dollars. The 40,000 loan. The 40,000 of student loans. 60,000 car. That was after it was split amongst you.

[Caller]

That, that it was. And he, he was court ordered to pay these and he has not. And he's.

[Jade Warshaw]

And they're still in your name. And they're still in your name. Okay, so the car, who has possession of the car?

[Caller]

I have, the car was awarded to me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And you said it, it, you have to pay 60,000 on it. If you sold it today, what would you get for it?

[Caller]

33,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And then the student loans, are those his student loans or they're yours?

[Caller]

Those are mine. Okay, Those are mine. It's about 40,000. It's nothing super, you know.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And the business loan, if you were to, if you were to force a refinance on that to get him off of it, like is he supposed to be paying that loan but he's not or was that awarded to you the 40,000 business loan?

[Caller]

He was, he was. Okay, I can go pay $10,000 to file contempt and then get money out of a guy that he quit his job and he's on military disability.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying, I'm not, I'm not saying you do that. But I'm saying if he, if the court said that he's supposed to pay the $40,000 loan but he's not paying it and your name is on it, you should be able to force him to refinance. To get your name off of it because. So that you can be free and clear. And what happens when you bring that before the judge? What happens?

[Caller]

I. I have to pay another $10,000 to. To go forward with it. He just will not do it. He won't do anything.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, no, but the court can force it, though, is what Jade saying.

[Caller]

I guess I haven't done that. I. This is so new. I've been in a panic.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Hannah, when did all that. When did all this. When did all this happen?

[Caller]

March of this year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. So. Yeah. So it's fresh.

[Jade Warshaw]

Very new.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I said I can't modify anything for at least a year. So I'm. I'm just. He just dumped everything on me in June, including the children.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. Well. Well, whatever the. The divorce decree says of what debts are his and what debts are yours. And this 40,000 they said is his. Correct. Even though your name's on it. But they. Through your divorce, that's his. Right. So.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So yeah, I would. I would contact your. Do you have a lawyer still?

[Caller]

I do, but she just wants money. She's not helpful at all.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, well, maybe let's find someone helpful.

[Caller]

Because $5,000 to take it to go forward with this and I could just pay 5,000 to something and pay it off. So I'm really struggling with. With that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, if she's not a. If she's not a good attorney, find a new one. And that's okay for you to do. Yeah. And yeah, what Rachel said is absolutely the case. You've got to go with what the courts have said. And if he's not uploading, you know, upholding his side, you've got to force that into action. So it sounds like the only ones that truly are your burden is the hundred thousand. Right. The student loan in the car is that if we're really talking about who owns what. Yep. Yes.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So let's focus on that for now. Because today, in this moment, you can't change the situation of the business loan that will come. But for now. And my guess. My guess is that your credit is decimated anyway. Am I wrong?

[Caller]

Oh, it's just.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Described.

[Jade Warshaw]

So then it doesn't. Right now, literally, it doesn't matter. Right. The damage is done. And find. Find a little bit of freedom in that. Honestly, that it can't get. That it can't get worse.

[Caller]

Y.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Exactly.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I love that you're making a. Of money. You're doing so well on that side. You're able to, you know, pay for daycare. So let's reorganize your budget and make it to where we're accounting for four walls first, which is you're making your rent, you're making sure there's transportation, you're making sure there's utilities, you're making sure that you're eating right. That's number one. And then right after that, number five is daycare. Right. Because the kids have to go to daycare. So you can work. Then after that, if there's still money now, we can start going down priority after priority hand and making sure that everything is accounted for. And if there's money now, we can start the debt snowball.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

So are these the only two debts you have in the whole world?

[Caller]

I have a credit card with like 7,000 on it and I owe 4,000 left to the IRS for back taxes. And I'm making thousand dollar payments on those each month.

Just.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, okay, so let's focus on the IRS first. How about that? Like make it real small.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much are you bringing home a month?

[Caller]

About 11,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

11,000. Okay, that's great. Yeah, you do have a great job. You know, one of the biggest burdens is this car, the $60,000 car. And it's, it's teetering right there at. It's unmanageable because how much is the payment a month?

[Caller]

1300.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. So.

[Caller]

Yes, honestly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And I know your credit's horrific because the, the easiest way to do it would to go get a, you know, go get a $38,000 loan, pay off the car, and then take 6,000 and go get a crappy car just to get you back and forth to work into daycare. Right. I mean, like, that would be the ideal. With the credit being shot, that's going to be really difficult. So I'm wondering if there's a credit union or someone in your town that you can sit down and explain the situation.

[Caller]

Bring records Know my sister is willing to co sign or put a car in her name under $30,000 if I just give this Jeep back, this rent, this Wagoneer. Can I do that or am I going to. Is it going to be a problem if I just hand the keys to the bank and walk away? My sister will get a car for me and I'll make those payments. I didn't know if that was an option or if I'm going to pay for that in the future.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, because you're still going to be. If you surrender this car. Car, they're gonna take it and they're gonna auction it and whatever the difference is on the 60, 000 loan, you're still gonna have to pay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Where did you get the 33, 000 number? Because Wagoneers are nice.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. But their, their value is horrible.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, is it?

[Caller]

Yeah, horrible.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is that Kelly Blue Book during bankruptcy?

[Caller]

Kelly Blue Book? Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, shoot. Oh, man, I didn't know that. When I see him, I'm always like.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know they look nice, but they drop like a rock. They're terrible. Yeah.

[Caller]

They have no value. When you, when you turn them in, you are absolutely hosed with them. You'll get 20.

[Jade Warshaw]

So one of my biggest goals for you would be twofold. The first one, and I think that this car is huge because it's $1300 a month. I would exhaust everything because anything is better than you having you owing 38 is better than you owing 60. Basically at just about any term, 100%, you know. So see, scour and find what you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Can to see if you can get any kind of loan to be able to pay off the difference and then get you a crappy car with it. But hey, Hannah, hold on. The last Christian's going to pick up and we're going to get you with one of our certified financial counselors to walk with you. Because as a single mom juggling all of this to have someone sit down and actually run the numbers longer than just eight minutes of what Jade and I can do, we want to give that to you as a gift, Hannah. And you're doing incredible. You're an incredible mom. You're an incredible fighter.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

And we're here for you, Hannah. Hey, guys. It's open enrollment time for health insurance. And if you have ever felt overwhelmed trying to figure out your healthcare costs, you are not alone. For a lot of families, healthcare is one of the biggest line items in the budget. And it gets more confusing every year. But you don't have to settle. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a biblical and budget friendly alternative to health insurance, and I am proud to recommend them. With chm, you are joining a community of believers who actually help share each other's medical bills. Yeah, it's true. Members have shared over $12 billion in healthcare costs since CHM started nearly 45 years ago. And it's simple. You choose your provider Provider with no network limits. You submit your eligible bills online, and other members help share your expenses. CHM has program options for every stage of life, whether you're single, self employed, or raising a family. Y', all, open enrollment has a lot of people scrambling right now. But CHM lets you join anytime. So go to chministries.orgbudget to check them out. That's chministries.orgbudget it if you are wondering where you are on the baby steps or even how to keep track of of your your financial situation and the baby steps, make sure to check out our quiz to see your progress and you can actually receive a personalized plan just for you when it comes to the Ramsey baby steps. So just go to the show notes and click the link titled are you on track with the baby steps? And complete the quiz. All right, we have Susan in Arkansas coming up next. Hi Susan, how are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you?

[Rachel Cruze]

We are doing great. How can we help?

[Caller]

Good.

My husband and I are on. We finished all the baby steps. My husband's 67, I'm 61. He is going to go into a partial retirement next summer and our net worth, including our home is about 3.5 million.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh wow. Good for you guys.

[Caller]

But the 2.2.5 of that is, you know, not the home and I guess a million of that is in brokerage and then the 1.5 is in RAS.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So the question is we have a son and daughter in law that live about five hours away from us in a very booming market and they're just having a growing family and it's just so important to us to be close to family and we're running up there all the time, staying in a hotel and being guests and all that. And we are really wondering if it would be wise to buy a small house. Maybe three. We're looking at. There are some starter home neighborhoods. So like we could get a brand new house for 350,000, you know, like 1600 square feet. Just something that we could stay in when we go up there. The thing is we are going to be probably relocating in about three years to that city.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh.

[Caller]

So but you know, then we have three years to be going back and forth and all that. We want to be up there more because the babies are babies right now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure.

[Caller]

So, you know, it's been suggested that we would rent maybe something for a couple of years and then make the big move in three years. But it's such a booming market that, you know, when we're not up there, it would just be sitting in there. We'd be paying rent on it. But if we buy, we would be building equity.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. How far away?

[Caller]

What is your.

[Jade Warshaw]

How far away?

[Caller]

It's about five hours away.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And then three. What's the three year mark. Is that his retirement when he's done fully.

[Caller]

Yes, he got the step down retirement. You know, it's. So he'll be, he'll be needing to be in our, our town right now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, and you guys can cash flow a three, a 350 home right now, right?

[Caller]

We could, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So I would probably just do that. Susan. I would not rent.

[Caller]

No.

[Rachel Cruze]

I would either just make, just have a little hotel fund and know you'll be staying in a lot of hotels for the next three years and that's okay, or I would just go ahead and buy it.

[Jade Warshaw]

And buy it.

[Caller]

Yeah. Because it'd be trading one asset for the other, right?

Right.

Well, it'd be trading cat. It'd be trading some of our net worth right now.

[Rachel Cruze]

It would. But you're going to sell your home in Arkansas to move full time in three years. How much is your house in Arkansas worth?

[Caller]

About a million.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, great. So that's great. Then I would just put that in.

[Caller]

Our house is. It's, it's about five years old. It's brand, you know, but if we wait too long, it's not going to be brand. It's not going to be as new as it is right now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, it's just three years and you're fine?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about that. Yeah, I'm not concerned about any part of this.

[Caller]

No, you're not concerned about any of that. I guess it's just I love where we are finally, you know, with the baby steps and all that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, you're not taking any sort of step backwards if that's the way it feels.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're just shifting assets from retirement to a home. And then when you guys sell your million dollar home in Arkansas in three years. Oh my gosh.

[Caller]

Gosh.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's going to be a nice chunk.

[Rachel Cruze]

Of change you'll just put and reinvest back in and keep on moving.

[Caller]

Yeah. And just move up there and sell the smaller house and just get the.

Forever house, I guess.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, oh, so you would sell the $350,000 house family and get a bigger.

[Caller]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, then I would not do. I'm sorry, I thought that, I thought the home you're gonna buy now is just the home, you guys.

[Jade Warshaw]

Me too.

[Caller]

No, not.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, then I would not. Then I would not. No. You do not need to be in real estate for three years. No. No. Okay, so I would just either stay with, stay with family, stay in a hotel for. It's just Three years. It's just three years. You can do this. And then when you guys sell in Arkansas, I would move a million dollars from Arkansas. A million dollars to where you are and just. Just break even.

[Caller]

Okay, so don't. Don't do it. What if we would keep it as a, I don't know, rental, proper property or whatever. How long is. What's the least amount of time to stay in real estate?

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, I'd say five. Five years, probably.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's. This is a different question. And I, I don't. So if you bought the $350,000 house today, you lived in it, and then the plan was when you're ready to live there full time, that becomes a rental. And then would you turn around and buy the next house in cash or would you be thinking that there's some sort of mortgage on that?

[Caller]

We would take the million that we'd sell in our current home, you know, and.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And put that in another home.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

In this other location is very expensive, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. But I'm saying. Okay. But you wouldn't take a mortgage at all.

[Caller]

No.

[Rachel Cruze]

So that. Yeah. So then that's just a question for you guys. Susan, if you enjoy real estate, do y' all want to be landlords and retirement? So, you know, that's. I mean, I come from a real estate family.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love it.

[Rachel Cruze]

I think that that's so fun. I like diversifying and all of that. But also, Susan, you're gonna get calls and, you know, don't be wrong. Yeah. John and sue, who's written from you, their thing is they're, you know, it's broke and you. And you guys are gonna have to coordinate. I mean, it's a little bit of a job like you got. So it's not an. So it's not. One thing about investments that's great is you put it in, you leave it, and there's no hassle and you get the returns and you live your great life.

[Caller]

Life.

[Rachel Cruze]

Real estate is a fun investment, but it's. But for you guys, it's going to be less about building equity in the home itself to you, unless you guys want to sell it in 15 years. But you. It may just be more of a generational property even. I don't know. You want to look long term at it, but just know that the rental game, I think it's. It's fine. But usually where you make your money is not the rent month to month, it's the equity built in the home is usually what you, what you get. And buying. And usually you try to get a deal, which buying a brand new home.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wouldn'T be that you're not gonna get that.

[Rachel Cruze]

But you guys, you can afford it, so you're fine. So it'd just be a question for you and your husband, do y' all want to be landlords in retirement? So it'd just be.

[Caller]

You would definitely not do it if we were not gonna rent it later? Yeah, if we would. If we buy it, buy it for three years, you would not do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I think this plan would cause you to decide to make a different choice on the house that you might purchase short term.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Does that make sense? Because you're going to want to think about it as the rental later, not as the house that you're enjoying now, if that makes sense.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. But if you're not wanting to rent it out and be landlords, you're like, no, that sounds like a headache. I would not buy until you're there full time. Because a turnaround of buying a brand new home at 350 in three years, we hope it goes up. I mean, I don't know. But there's always that risk that you're maybe buying at the high end and then in three years everything kind of like softens a little bit and you end up losing money on it, which we don't want if that is the case because it is such a short turnaround. So. Yeah. So I would either buy the 350 home, knowing I want to keep it and rent it out as a long term rental home as a part of your overall estate and then cash flow, the main house, or just be patient and wait three years and then just buy the million dollar home and then the 350 stays in the IRA and you guys just continue on.

[Caller]

Okay, well that's a. Yeah. Okay, well that's a great option.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wonderful. Thanks, Susan.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good question.

[Rachel Cruze]

And what a, what a great, what a great problem to have, you know, Sweet. Just so, yeah. Thinking through like the family and how.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do I want to spend my 3.5 million.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, I know, I know. I mean, well done, Susan. Well done. But that is a, it can be a misnomer. And I think real estate can feel like a glamorous. Oh my gosh. Sophisticated. Like I'm in real. We're in real estate and we have investments and real estate investing. You know, it's just, it is a part. And I think it's a, it can be a great part. And I think it's like if you're interested in it and it's what you love. You know, we're not against it by.

[Jade Warshaw]

Any means, but it's not passive.

[Rachel Cruze]

Not passive income. That's right. Yeah. And usually with it, what you're, how you're making your money is the equity of the home home of the actual property. When you sell it, you make a lot. So that that's the key. It's not always the monthly rentals that's like, you know, that's not the thing that's going to do everything for you. It's really the equity that you're building in. But it's a great question, Susan. Hey guys. I'm so excited to tell you that our new 2026 Ramsey goal planner is available right now. This isn't just your average planner planner. It's your personal guide to setting clear goals and building habits that stick. So get ready for all new monthly content from your favorite Ramsey personalities, tactical goal setting trackers and upgrades that make this our most durable planner yet. Last year we sold out, so don't miss out. Order your 2026 Ramsey Goal Planner for $49.97 today at ramseysolutions.com store.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Rachel Cruze]

Team is offering free live budgeting workshops this month. And in Budgeting 101, you're going to learn how to make a budget in everydollar, get tips from our experts and even be able to ask your questions in a live Q and A. And you're just going to get the step by step walkthrough of EveryDollar's features so you know how you can use this app app the best. Like there's so many elements of it and for you to have the knowledge and to actually practice it and be in it is everything. So make sure to check it out. Sign up for budgeting one on one 101 for [e-mail] workshop. All right, up next we have Josh in Illinois. Hi Josh. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you both for your time.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we've got open enrollment right around the corner and I am just trying to get as much counsel as possible when it comes to making a decision on healthcare plan. I have heard a lot of good things said by you and others about health savings accounts and we do have that option. We have a high deductible plan that has a health savings account. And I'm just wondering under what circumstances, if any, would you recommend that someone not opt for such a plan? What should someone look out for to determine if it's right for them. Them.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I love a high deductible plan. I have a high deductible plan. I love the HSA for the obvious reasons. The reason that I chose it, though, was not because of the hsa, although that's a perk. I chose it because it really is the best health plan. If you are healthy, you know, you're kind of in that realm where I go, I do my yearly physical, you know, I pop in maybe one other time if, you know, somebody has a flu or you're not in the in and out of the hospital, you're not, you know, doing all of these, you know, doctor visits. So basically, if you're young and if you're healthy, yeah, high deductible plan is good for you. If you're a person who knows that you have health concerns or your children have health concerns, then you would benefit from a plan that has a lower deductible. Right. Because you know you're going to hit that deductible every year. And so you don't want it to be astronomical. But for somebody, if you are healthy, then that's a great thing because the likelihood of you hitting the deductible is really low, if that makes sense. So are you young and healthy?

[Caller]

I would say so, yes. I don't have any health expenses or anything like that. And yeah, I guess in my research with this, I'm reading a lot of good things about it and I just want to make sure that, oh, you know, the grass doesn't look greener on this other side. And then I try it out and, you know, I wind up getting burned. Which, you know, that is one thing that I had known to look out for. You know, if you're going to be having constant health problems, I can see how that works.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or if a wife. You're planning on your wife being pregnant or something like that, then, yeah, I would go to a lower deductible. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Yes, it does. And so, yeah, basically, if someone young and healthy, they're not going to be experiencing a lot of problems. They're not probably not going to have to meet that deductible anytime soon. You'd say it's pretty much a wise decision all around rounds.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, I think so.

[Rachel Cruze]

And that's what I have, too. And the hsa, like Jade said, is a perk that you can use for health expenses. And then if you get far along enough in the baby steps, you may not even ever have to tap into your hsa, which actually could Build almost like another retirement, you know, investment vehicle, which is awesome, too. So that's another great perk. But, yeah, so if you. Yeah, young and healthy, high deductible plan, I think is spot on. So I do not think you'll get burns. And worst case scenario, if something changes down the road, you can change your plan, too. So that's something to think about.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. That's a good moment to talk about the hsa, because we mention it, and a lot of people maybe don't know what it is or how it can help them, but I actually really like it. Once you're in baby step four and beyond, if you're beyond the point of, you know, maxing out a 401k or even a Roth, it's a great place to put extra money. You can invest it. I think you have access to it at age 62 as a retirement fund. It's either 62 or 67. Double check me on that. But that's a wonderful thing. And of course, yeah, you can pull money out at any time, tax free for medical expenses, that sort of thing. It's growing tax free. So it's really a really wonderful deal there.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So if you have an option for a health savings account at hsa, it's a great one to tap into. All right, next, let's go to Austin in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi, Austin.

[Caller]

Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I feel like I'm grounding here. I've got about. I got 74,200 in debt. I went from making a little over 100 to now I'd be lucky to make 50 a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

What happened?

[Caller]

Well, my work slowed down. It's kind of seasonal here from what I found out.

[Rachel Cruze]

What do you do?

[Caller]

Um, I work as a service advisor at an automotive dealership.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And it really slowed down here for a few months. And I wasn't making enough to even pay our bills, so I left and went to another automotive company. Turns out it was even worse. And they took me back. But when they took me back, they changed the pay plan.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, gosh, like penalize you because you left?

[Caller]

Well, they changed it for everyone, not just me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay, I hear you. Did you know that going in.

[Caller]

The day that I started, I found out.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's strange.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Was it just an assumption on your part? Like, I'm just assuming I'll make the same amount?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah. And I know season's about to pick up here soon. A lot of the snowbirds start to come back and that's where a lot of the income comes in. But it hasn't picked up yet either.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let me go a little deeper on this. What caused you to choose automotive? Was that like your field of choice or did you kind of end up there?

[Caller]

There, I just kind of ended up there. I've been in, in there for seven or eight years now, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so I think that this is a time for a. To consider the future, like as a restart. Cuz I kind of feel like you fell into this job, it was doing okay for you, and now it's not. So maybe it's time to look up and go, okay, like what, what does Austin want to do? Like what do you want to be and what do you want to continue to do? You know, where do you see yourself five years from now? And what, I mean, if you, how.

[Rachel Cruze]

Old are you, Austin?

[Caller]

28.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. If, if the world is anything for you, what would you, what would you want it to be if you could do anything to make money? What's like a dream?

[Caller]

I'd love to be, you know, a business. Business owner of some sort. I did open a painting company. I made about 75 a year, but I need at least around 100 to stay afloat. So that didn't work out.

[Rachel Cruze]

Stay afloat because of the debt or because of.

[Caller]

Yeah, because of my debt.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Are you married with kids?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm married, three kids.

[Rachel Cruze]

Three kids. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long did you do the painting business.

[Caller]

Full time? About six months. I did part time, but I don't really make much off of it if it's part time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I think that for six months of business, if you made 79,000, that's not bad.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

What if you continued? I mean, I gotta believe if you continued, you would continue to grow that income. And 80 is not that far away from 100 that you're trying to get to when you're the one going out, you know, to quote Dave, going out, killing something, dragging it home.

[Caller]

Yeah, Yeah, I made 75, not quite 79, but I understand.

[Jade Warshaw]

But when, when you're the one out getting a job and those jobs are, you know, 3,000 a pop or whatever it is, is, that's. There's a lot more hope there that I can get to a number. Right. Than just waiting for somebody who's paying me, I don't know, 18 an hour to get there. Right. So I, I don't dislike the idea of you keeping the current job that you have now because it is money coming in Whilst you start up this painting thing again. Because if you made 75,000 in six months, you could surely go out and get a couple of clients and get that up and running in the next month or so. Doing painting jobs on the weekend or whatever your free time is. Am I wrong?

[Caller]

Well, that 75,000 was the average I was headed towards for the year. I didn't make the 75 in that six months. I made about half that.

[Jade Warshaw]

That. Okay, so you never got to it. That was the projection.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah. Correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you were making. You made 35 in six months, which is still. It's not a bad side hustle.

[Rachel Cruze]

Successful. So why were you doing that? Were you doing that on the weekends and at night?

[Caller]

No, that was me. I left the automotive business for. For about six months to do that and.

[Rachel Cruze]

Gotcha.

[Caller]

So that was me full time painting myself.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. So, Austin, what I would do is look at the debt. I would list out smallest to largest and attack the smallest one. If there's a car in there that you can sell to loosen up that 74. But I would be honestly doing the car during the day. I'd be painting in the afternoon. Yeah, night and afternoon. And then, you know, maybe you look for something else. Actually, hold on the line, Austin, and we'll give you Ken's book. Find the work you're wired to do, Ken Coleman, just to kind of get those gears turning for you and maybe make some more income. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Going to the phones, we have Sandra in the Bowling Green, Kentucky. Hi, Sandra. Welcome to the show. Hi.

[Caller]

Thank you both for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, for the last six years, I have been giving my son money for various reasons. First, you know, it was around the COVID shutdown and he's not very good with money and. And then he stopped asking me for money and then he started again. So I've given him like around $35,000 and I. I want to stop. I want him to do better, you know, And I don't know how to do that. I've tried to talk to him about this, but he. I'm his mother, you know, so I don't know anything or I know everything, let's put it that way.

Way.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, that's right. That's right. Sandra, how are you financially?

[Caller]

I'm. I'm. I'm good.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

I have a good job and I have good savings for my retirement.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. And how old is he?

[Caller]

47.

[Rachel Cruze]

47. Does he have a family?

[Caller]

Yes, he's divorced, but he has one child at home.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, and what does he do for a living?

[Caller]

He works in the automotive business. But he works. I'm not sure what they call it, but he. It's a press operator, not an operator, but he does the upkeep on the presses.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, and when he calls for money, is it. What's his. Like, what's his reasoning? Is it a situation that happens? Is it month to month? He just needs a little bit to cover the bills, like, kind of. Of what's. What. What. What does he tell you?

[Caller]

Well, he had. He filed bankruptcy twice. So this time he. He did not have. They do a reconsolidation, and this time it made him. He pays so much for that that he can't afford his bills, his food and his gas. So that's what he asked me for. He says, I hate to ask you, but. But I need money for gas and food.

[Rachel Cruze]

What's caused them to fil. Is it all consumer debt or is he going into business debt?

[Caller]

No, it's not business debt, but I couldn't tell you exactly what it's for because he doesn't involve me in that, and that's okay with me. I don't want to know, you know. Now I do know he had some issues a couple of years ago and he got sorted out with that, but then he had like.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like addiction issues.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Is he living out a sober lifestyle right now?

[Caller]

Yes, he is.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long ago was the divorce?

[Caller]

About seven years ago.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

And were the bankruptcies after the divorce?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Were they mostly.

[Caller]

First one was after the first divorce, and the second one was after the second divorce.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, he's been divorced twice.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. I forgot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Boy, oh, boy. And can I. I'm just trying. What I'm trying to understand about him is, is he still out of control or is he a person who was out of control and has done some work to start getting his life back on track?

[Caller]

I. I don't know. I. I can't talk to him about these things. It's very difficult to bring it up.

[Jade Warshaw]

For you or for him or for both.

[Caller]

Both. Well, if I'm. I'm fearful to bring it up because. Because he. Well, I haven't brought it up, so I don't know. I'm fearful about what he might say.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's gonna pain you to hear it.

[Caller]

Yes, it's gonna pain me, of course.

[Jade Warshaw]

Huh. I think that if he were. I think that if he were truly In a place where he's on the other side of this behavior and he's really doing the work to be well, I think he would be initiating those conversations with you saying, here's where I've been, here's where I am now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Great point.

[Jade Warshaw]

And this is a way that if you wanted to support me, you could. Right. I think that he would have the maturity to do that. Since it sounds like he's not, I.

[Rachel Cruze]

Don'T know, it still feels like a little bit of all over the place. And that's the sad reality. Yeah. Of what you're, you're hitting that wall over and over again. Of the reality that you can't change people. You could give him, him $135,000 and it's not gonna help him. And so the hard thing is too, is enablers are always the kindest people, you know? And so that's your heart, Sandra, and it's your son. You know, Jade and I both have sons, and I'm like, I. You do. You don't want your kids to suffer. You want to be able to help them. And I think the question is, how can I help him the best? And throwing money at a situation over and over again because he's not changing his habits, I think is a, is a difficult reality, but it is a reality. And again, I mean, you go to the extreme, we don't see our family members on the street, Right. I mean, like, so, like, like there's, there is a natural instinct that kicks in and that, and that boundary can be drawn, you know, however you want it to be. Sandra. But I think at the end of the day, knowing as his mom and as painful as the decisions that he's made in his life are, you can't change that until he chooses to change. And so what you could say, Jade, I think was on a really great track mentally as you were talking through it. Jade. Because if he comes to you and maybe you can even say it to him, right? Like you guys can have this conversation of, I want to see healing in your life, I want to see change. And if you save up X amount, maybe Sandra, you could maybe match that amount, right? Or I don't know what it looks like, but at least he's on a road to self sufficiency because that's the best thing for him. And if you can help him get there because he is making positive progress, then maybe you can. But just throwing money at a situation when there's no change, that's hopeless. So I, I agree.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, this is A tough situation, no matter how you slice it. And I think for you, for the short term. Yeah. I think maybe the first thing you do is you maybe open up those lines of communication and then you can better assess the situation. But it sounds like now's not the time to give him money.

[Caller]

Right. But he's. His business, the business that he works at is slowing down. So he was off last week for one day. So. Okay, well then he's never been a good time for the last five years.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Then he needs to go get a job. He needs to go work at Target or something.

[Jade Warshaw]

But if you give him the money, he won't, Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, he's got to, he's got to figure out how to self Sustain as a 47 year old. You know, he's going to have to learn that at some point. And, and that's, and that's a, that's a hard reality.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old's the kid?

[Caller]

She, she used to be 15 in January.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Now I would be concerned about her. If you're looking and seeing that maybe she's doesn't have some of the things that she needs in a serious way, I might step in for some things to help with her and I would do that in a very protected way. Does that make sense? Like if you look, if you look over and realize, oh my gosh, they don't have like the heat's not on or something like that, I might reach over and pay that, that, you know, either have her come stay with me or just pay the bill directly, something like that. I could see wanting to help a minor.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. For sure. That there's. Yes. A vulnerable child in the mix. And. Yeah. And she doesn't need to suffer because of his decisions if, if you are able to help in that way. But setting boundaries, it can feel so unloving. But it may be one of the most loving things you can do, Sandra, for him. And especially since you're wanting to stop, you, you feel it in your soul that this is not helping a situation and it's going to be so hard. And there might be some verbal backlash, but man, if you, if you hold that strong and hold that steady, I think there's a level of wisdom and clarity that comes with that when you remove yourself from a situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show Won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt and build wealth. And you can too. But you gotta have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start now. Take the free quiz and get your free step by step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to ramseysolutions.com startnow.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Rachel Cruze]

Of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, then you need a lender who sees you and meets you where you are. Why? Refi offers low fixed rate plans based on your real ability to pay. Learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter Y, R, E F Y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, today's question comes from Madison in Colorado. She says, my husband and I just celebrated our third anniversary. We're debt free and currently working on baby step three. We both work full time and after saving our emergency fund fund, the plan is to save as much as possible before our first child is born. My husband is changing careers and wants to wait a few months until he settled into his new career career with a better paying job so he feels more confident in providing for our future family. I know you tell people not to wait until everything is perfect to start a family. I absolutely agree with that. But I also agree with my husband that it's important to have more financial stability before we start trying. I've never met a man who wants children more than my husband and both of us feel sad and stressed about waiting. I would love your advice on this. Okay. I, I personally love this question. First off, let me just say it is 100% your choice. Like, I can tell you my thoughts, but it's your choice. It's your family, it's your life. I don't think there's anything wrong with family planning. Yeah. And this is kind of part of that, right? You're saying, here's what we want our life to look like. And the biggest part of that is whether you both agree on it. And I'm saying that my husband and I, we made the decision that we wanted certain things in place before we started a family. And that was something that we agreed on. And there were moments where I was like, do I still we. It was like something we had to check back in on. Right. Because for us, the idea was, hey, we'll pay off debt and then we'll start a family. But we also knew that that was a long journey to pay off the debt. So it was kind of like checking back in. Like, are we still good on this? Because it's three years in. We still good? You know, so if you both. Both agree and you both like the idea of whatever that is, him making X amount of dollars or whatever that goal is, then that's fine for now. But maybe you set it up and say, okay, like, every six months, we're just going to revisit this.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, it's an asterisk that, like, it could change.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, yes. It can always change.

[Rachel Cruze]

It can. And your desire for when a baby comes and when you want to start changes too. I know it did for us. I thought we were gonna wait a little bit longer. And then I remember being like, I think I'm ready now. You're ready sooner. So, yeah, that. And then I would also say to remember, you know, once you get pregnant, there's still nine months. So he's wanting to change jobs now and wait a few months. Well, that's. You guys could be doing it simultaneously as well. So just remember that. So, yeah, we always say around here, don't feel like you have to have. You have to have a certain financial benchmark. Like, we do not say you have to be debt free before you start a family, or you have to have expense. Have a baby when you want to have a baby, like what Jade said earlier. But if you personally say, no, we want to wait because of a timeframe, because of financial goal, if that's what you want, that's great. That's what you guys are choosing as a couple and as a family.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now, there is one thing I will say about what you wrote, Madison, and I'll say this is giving me a little bit of like a. I don't know what. The fact that you said we both feel sad and stressed about waiting, that's the part to me that I'm like, I don't know about that. Because for me, it gave me more peace to wait. Because I was like, I feel better waiting until I'm in a better spot. I feel more stressed about if I were to get pregnant today. So the fact that you're emotional emotions. And don't get me wrong, sometimes our emotions don't line up with what we're doing in a moment. But for something like this, I kind of feel like they should.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Listen to what you're desiring.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And the. And the fact is what you're desiring is okay to desire and actually happen.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

So you're not doing anything wrong if you guys choose to move forward. I mean, you guys are debt free. It's an emergency fund. Like, you're fine. You're fine. I promise you are fine, and you will figure it out. People do it all the time.

[Jade Warshaw]

All the time.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So the fact that I think you're exactly right, Jade. The fact that you wrote that last.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sentence, you should feel good about the decisions you're making.

[Rachel Cruze]

If you're not feeling, make a different decision. So it's a good question that we get that question a lot about, when do we get married? When do we have a baby? When do we start a family? All of it. I love talking about it with George Camel because he's always my practical friend, because he's like, I mean, you can have a baby whenever, but it sure is nice to have a baby when there's no debt. I get that. I get that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. But come on. But also.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Most people would say they don't look back and think, oh, my gosh, I wish we had waited.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

You know what I mean? Like, you know, usually people are like, we wish we had them sooner now that we know what we know kind of thing. So.

[Jade Warshaw]

And your situation. I'm like, you're. If there were a crazy situation, yours is not it. That's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

You know what I mean?

[Jade Warshaw]

Like, you're not like, I'm in bankruptcy, and we have nine. I want. We have nine kids, and we want to have a tenth. I'd be like, what's wrong with you?

[Rachel Cruze]

So totally. Totally. Oh, so good. All right, let's go to the phones. We'll go to Jessica in South Carolina. Hi, Jessica.

[Caller]

Hi. How are y'? All?

[Rachel Cruze]

We are doing great. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So I have a decision to make. Basically. Our baby is coming February 6th.

[Rachel Cruze]

Another baby question. This is great. We were just talking about this.

[Caller]

I know. And I'm like, I feel like y' all come kind of answered my question a little bit. But I don't know. Our situation is a little bit different.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, tell us.

[Caller]

Yeah. So we have a baby coming February 6th, and I think it's smart for us to just go ahead. By that time, we should have enough money in our savings account to actually pay off all of our debt, and we'd be completely debt free.

[Jade Warshaw]

Awesome.

[Rachel Cruze]

Amazing.

[Caller]

But we wouldn't have nothing in our savings, and we have a new baby. So I don't know if it's smart to do that or I have no idea.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Well, what we always say is, while you're doing the baby steps, and if you are on baby step two and you get pregnant, you go into stork mode, meaning you just pile up a bunch of money. You just save, save, save. Just pay minimum payments, stay current on everything, and just save money. And then when baby comes and mom is good, baby's good. You go right back to the baby steps. And so that's what you guys did. Jessica. Which is amazing. Like, you literally are the textbook example of, okay, we're gonna save and save and save, and then once we have the baby, we have enough money to become daddy debt free.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So how much. How much money do you got? How much will you make the first month the baby's here? So let's say you took everything out and you paid off all your debt. I would still want you to leave a thousand dollars for an emergency fund, but let's just say you pay off all your debt, you have your thousand dollars. How much money will be coming in income wise, that first month?

[Caller]

The first month, probably about 10,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. Because I would still be getting paid from my job, my pay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so if you had.

[Caller]

And my husband.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, Jessica, if you had no debt. Okay, no debt, no payments. But you had to pay the rent or the mortgage, the lights, utilities, all of that. If you had to pay your necessities, how much would be left in your budget?

[Caller]

Cable, all that? Probably about 2. Oh, 2000 is our monthly expenses because we paid off our house 50 years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my gosh.

[Caller]

I know it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Jessica.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so you would have $8,000 month, one after the debt's paid off. So you're fine. So.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm trying to tell my husband, but I don't know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, even if you had to wait two weeks or get the paycheck and then pay off the debt, like, you're still going to be. Plus. Yeah, you're be positive. 8,000. Even if you wait two weeks to pay off the debt till the paycheck hits. You can do that. But how Amazing. Jessica. Congratulations. How did y' all do that? How did y' all pay off the house?

[Caller]

So, yeah, it was just every extra money. I mean, I made commission most of my young life. Well, you know, I'm 30 now, but most of my life, my job was just making commission and. And all that extra commission, you get those good checks. I just put it on house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Caller]

You know, I didn't, you know, spend.

[Rachel Cruze]

Incredible. Unbelievable.

[Jade Warshaw]

Awesome.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you guys. Oh, my gosh.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, yeah, if you wanted to hold your breath for 15 days till the next that paycheck hits, and then you have your eight extra thousand dollars, you can do that if that's. If that. If you got a new baby. And you. I get that. If you are postpartum, you're three weeks in, sleep deprived, and you want to wait one paycheck before you pay off the debt, I am okay with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Caller]

Okay, so just kind of hold the money a little bit. And so, yeah, if you want to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wait a month, that's fine. Yes. Yeah. You. You guys are in a completely fine position. So how much debt will you be paying off?

[Caller]

So we have 45 left, and that's a car. And that's also my house. Husband's full, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what's the house worth?

[Caller]

Our house is worth 220,000, girlfriend.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I'm talking about. Way to go.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well done. Congratulations. And with the baby. Oh, my gosh, having a new baby and all of this, you guys are just. You're killing it, and you're gonna have so much peace. Like, what a beautiful thing. What a beautiful way to set up your life with these decisions. You are making insane money in your 20s, and you didn't do the insane stuff. You, like, literally did the boring stuff and paid off the mortgage. And now you get to choose if you want to stay home. I mean, there's so many. Yeah. So many choices and options ahead, Jessica. So we are. We're cheering on you guys. Congratulations.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a Ramsey trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you, go to ramseysolutions.comrealty agent. That's ramseysolutions.com agent.

[Rachel Cruze]

Up next, we have Jocelyn in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Jocelyn. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for having me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So I. I made this huge mistake about. I think it was, like, almost. It was like four and a half years ago. I was with this guy, and I took out loans for him because he didn't have good credit. So I took out. I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So I took out a business credit card, which was one loan. And then I took out a personal loan, which he used to buy, like, vehicles for his business. And then I also took out a golf cart loan. Okay, so fast forward and then two years. He was paying everything at the time when we were together, but it was always minimum payments. So in reality, it probably didn't really pay that much. So then two years ago, we split up, and he promised me, like, he would pay. Pay me monthly. We got a new girlfriend. And then, of course, you know, he stopped paying me. So when I left him, it was at, like, it was between 50 to 60 thousand dollars that I owed, and I've gotten it down to 20,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, good.

[Caller]

Thanks. I. So I sacrificed by moving back home, like, in with my parents. And then I just worked a lot. I'm a nurse, so I'm kind of lucky there. I can find a good job.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So I was always stuck between, like, filing bankruptcy or paying it off. So obviously bankruptcy is not an option. But I always just wonder, like, if I should try to go back and sue him to get the money. People always tell me to, but when I've looked into it, it's kind of like a gray area.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because if your name's on it.

[Caller]

I'm sorry.

[Rachel Cruze]

Cause if your name's on the loan.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

There's kind of a little bit of a dead end. Unless there was some kind of contract that you guys had any type of leg. Legal documents. Did he.

[Caller]

No, no, there was no legal documents. You know, like, I have text messages, of course, where he'll be like, oh, I'm gonna pay you, stuff like that, but nothing. Legal documents.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, you could get a consultation to see, you know, But I really think that for you, you're so close to being done, you've got 20,000 to go, and you could just wash your hands of this entire situation.

[Rachel Cruze]

The cars that he bought with the loan, were. They. Were the cars under his name?

[Caller]

Yeah, they were under his name. And the golf cart. It was really nice.

[Jade Warshaw]

And he has all of it.

[Caller]

So whoever is listening to this, don't make those mistakes.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm sorry.

[Jade Warshaw]

Does he have. Does he have everything? He has the golf cart. He has cars.

[Caller]

He has the cars. The cars he bought with, like, cash. They were, like, vans for his trucking company, and they ended up wrecked. So that could have been a sign. This is a disaster. The golf cart. Well, luckily. And then the golf cart. The golf cart is. Is in his name also. So I tried to call the bank because the loans in my name, but. And this all Happened in Florida. In the state of Florida, whoever's name is in the title, it doesn't matter who the loan is, the person, the title owns it.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. Yeah. I mean, there. It seems like there's nothing to even try to seize. If you wanted to ask him and say, hey, I bought these cars, the least you could do is send me one so I can sell it and get some of this money. Right. But I just. It sounds like that's not even a thing, Right? I mean, he's awol, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is he worth anything? Like, if. Let's just say, perfect world, you find an attorney and they're like, oh, yeah, if you have text messages, we can prove this and take this to court and you can get your money back. Let's say they could. Does he have any money?

[Caller]

I mean, so that's the other thing is, like. Because I was looking into it, I'm like. I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure he has money, but I don't know if, like, he would actually pay me. Because when I look at online, when they go to court, like, if they don't pay you, they don't pay you. It's.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know. I don't think he. Yeah, I think this guy is using women, and I don't think he has.

[Rachel Cruze]

And a part of me, too, Jocelyn, would say, even if you. Even if that did happen, and he. He did say, I'll make you monthly payments. He may be attached to you for the next eight years. You know what I mean? And there's a part of the freedom of, like, you just want. It's a reminder every month that even if you're getting money from them, it's still, like, I'm a nurse and I can take care of myself. And, like, I don't even want to be attached to this anymore. And so, yeah, we kind of just. They coined the phrase stupid tax here on the show of just things that we do. All of us do it, right. Maybe at different dollar amounts and everything, in different situations where you look back and you think, that was so stupid, and now I'm paying for it. And I think, yeah, I think that's the situation. I mean, that's what's so hard. Jocelyn is now, if he was a good guy, he could say, hey, let's refinance, and I'll put my name on the loan and get your name off of it. All of it. But he's just, like, disappeared into the winds. I mean, it's Unbelievable.

[Jade Warshaw]

Jocelyn, I hope that you. I really hope that you allow this. Like, don't. As this lives in your mind, make sure you write the right story about it. Like, I don't want you to look at this and be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I did this terrible thing. I was so stupid. I was so. I hope that you write this in your brain as this guy tried to break me. But I paid off every dime of this because I'm awesome.

[Rachel Cruze]

And flip the narrative.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, please do. Because so many people would have just, I don't know, let that follow them for the rest of their life. Never fix it. Wait on someone else to come fix it for them. And the fact that you paid off 30,000. Yeah. So quickly. And that you're like, listen, I'll just do the rest of it. I think that that's incredible.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Jade Warshaw]

So keep going.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Please.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Well, and I think like you said, Jocelyn, for everyone out there, it's a good learning. Right? Because you do. You get sucked into a situation and you think and they're believable. That's the other thing. It's like, you know, you're not stupid, Jocelyn. Obviously you're a very smart woman and, you know, you get caught in a certain situation with a certain guy who persuades you in a certain way and you think, well, sure. You know what I mean?

[Jade Warshaw]

Good looking.

[Rachel Cruze]

It is what it is. Is so. But yeah, I'm. I'm proud of you for. Yeah. Paying it off and. And going forward with it, just like Jade said.

[Jade Warshaw]

Y.

[Rachel Cruze]

All right, let's go to Evan in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Evan. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, y'.

All.

I hope you guys are doing good today.

[Rachel Cruze]

We are, thank you.

[Caller]

So, of course, my question is. So I'm a college student here at Liberty University. I'm working to be a corporate pilot. I also work part time as a server. I've got about 4,000 in debt. I've got about $300 to my name. My car has needed countless repairs over the last two years that I've owned it. And one of those Repairs was about $4,000 to fix a transmission that blew. Obviously, as a college student, I didn't have 4,000, so my dad was gracious enough to help me with that. But in doing that, I've owed him a about $200 a month for insurance as well as to pay that back. I've asked him if I could pay the rest of that after graduation when I'm able to work full time. But he's kind of just said no and paid about one quarter of it, so a little over a grand. He helps me with groceries sometimes. I'm very grateful for that, but I'm just kind of a little bit stuck. Want to be able to have an emergency fund, save up some money. I want to save up for a ring for my girlfriend at some point and just be able to stand on my own without stressing about finances, especially in college, because my schedule is a little bit crazy, especially with being a pilot.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So I'm just trying to figure out what I should do in my situation.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. What's the $4,000 in debt? Is that student loans?

[Caller]

Say that one more time.

[Rachel Cruze]

$4,000. Is that the transmission debt, or was that the. You said your $4,000 in debt, or is that student loans?

[Caller]

So 3,000 of that is the transmission, and then another thousand of it is on a credit card, which I used for. For more expenses for the car that I paid for on my own.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, I gotcha. I gotcha.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how old are you?

[Caller]

So I'm 21. I'm a senior here at Liberty.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's part of this. I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you. When I was in college, yeah. My parents were still helping me out with certain things that popped up. And then there was a point where it's like, okay, you're graduated. You're making your own money. You're out there. And then it was on me. So I, I. Yes. You need some breathing room. What can you let go? Like, what can you pull back on to kind of give yourself a moment to just chill for a second? Because it's like, I feel like you're trying to solve all these problems at once, and I don't know that you can. Is the pilot thing part of the Liberty degree, or is that something totally separate? And then you've got the servers. Deal.

[Caller]

Yeah. So being a pilot, that's my degree here at Liberty. So you mean just, like, pull back in, like, my spending?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, yeah. Well, you've got to. I don't think now's the time to tackle debt is what you're asking. I think now's the time to focus on your education. Pay the minimum payments for now. You've got a little bit to go. I think you need to focus on graduating and get out of here. Keep things at a level, and then you can tackle that debt when you. You get out and start working.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Minimum payments. Stay current on everything, but I would just do that. Yep. Just like what Jade said, and then when you get out and actually have a full time job, then attack the debt. Our scripture of the day comes from John 10:10, the thief comes only to steal and destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it to the full. John Collins said, the people who don't have a great life are the ones who settle for a good life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

There you go. All right. Well, buying and selling your home, if you feel like it's a big deal, it's because it is. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's really hard to know what's exactly going on in the housing market. So we are here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So median home prices dipped a little bit last month to about $426,000 and a typical season shift shift as we head into the fall. So it's pretty typical to see that buyers have now more options and more negotiating power. Why Sellers face more competition. So if you're buying out there, the market is in your favor. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to 5.5% in September, giving buyers again, again some more breathing room. But since rates are really unpredictable, the best time to buy when you're financially right ready is right now, not when the rates drop. So if you are financially ready to buy a home and you've been sitting and waiting, get in the markets. And if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you when you're buying or selling your home with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show notes if you are listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, up next we have is it, is it Jima Jima Jima in la? Hey, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi there. How are you?

[Rachel Cruze]

We're doing great. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So I'm in this unique situation where my employer will contribute 15% of my salary into a traditional 401k without me having to put any in. So my question for you is when I'm done with baby step three and I do have a small like a separate Roth IRA, should I contribute the 15 retirement into the Roth or should I contribute it into the employer sponsored 401k?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh wow. I number one awesome company.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. How incredible.

[Jade Warshaw]

So there's a couple of ways to think about this. I'll tell you what my brain goes to Rachel, you tell me Y my brain kind of, kind of thinks number one, the 15%. It's great to get in the rhythm of doing that. Because if you ever move from this job, it's great to kind of set that habit of. I put X amount of my income into retirement. So I do. Even though 15 is really awesome, I do want you to have your own skin in this game. And so part of me would treat it maybe like a pension, where I'm thinking of that as half, and then I'm doing the other half and I do it into a Roth. That's where my mind goes. What would you do?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, so. So. So you're. There's no matching at the company. Correct. I mean, they're just. They're putting 15%. So. Yeah. So our normals formula is match beats Roth, beats traditional. So since there is no match, I would. What? Jade said I would go to the Roth and I would put. Probably. I would put 15% of your income. Yeah, I would think I would do the full 15, because the 15 going into the IRA, do you have control over where that money's going to, knowing that your employer's matching? So that's good. So that's. That's a great thing that you have, the control. So, yeah, I think I probably. I think I would just take that 15 that they're giving me as gravy.

[Jade Warshaw]

All gravy.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I think I would go 15% of your income into retirement, and I would start with the Roth, and you can put up to. What is it this year? Eight.

[Jade Warshaw]

8,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

8,000, I think.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So I would go ahead and max out that Roth and then. And then go back to your 401k at work to finish out your 15%. I think that's what I would do.

[Caller]

So you would put like 7 1/2% in the personal Roth and then the other 7.5% into traditional Roth?

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, it depends on how much you're investing. So it's 15% of your income. So I don't know what 8,000 of your income, what percentage that would be.

[Caller]

Oh, I get you. I understand what you're saying.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So I would go ahead and just, like, max it out, and if you have any percentages of that 15% left, I would go back to the 401k and put the money in there.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

All right.

[Caller]

Well, thank you so much.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. Absolutely. Gosh, that's a.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a great, great benefit.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. Not even having to put any money in, and they're just doing it. That's great. All right, let's go to Megan in New Haven. Hi, Megan. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, thank you so Much for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, you are welcome. How can we help today?

[Caller]

All right. Well, a huge fan. Love the baby steps. Always trying to get better. But anyway, so I'm calling today. I'm a single mom by choice, though. I had my daughter on my own. I'm 43, she's two. I'm on baby step four, five, and six. I've got my fully funded emergency fund, no debt, minus my house. I do my, you know, 15% into retirement. And I am a teacher, so I don't have. I don't have any kind of match or anything like that, but, you know, doing the best that I can. I own my home. It's worth about 425,000, and I still owe 218,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you.

[Caller]

I'm a teacher. Like I said, I make about $100,000 a year. So after taxes and insurance, I bring home about 4,800amonth. So basically, you know, it's like, I have enough. The budget is tight, but I have enough. It's just that I really want to change my family tree. I grew up with family, incredibly loving, wonderful family, who provided for myself, my sister, but zero, like, financial literacy. I feel like I've had to teach myself everything. And like I said, I'm still learning, but I really want to set my daughter up for success. I learned, you know, I listen a lot about you're trying not to go into debt for school, things like that. So, you know, as a single person, I know that, like, Dave talks a lot about, you know, just the fact that if you are in a partnership, you're clearly going to make, you know, growth quick, more quickly than if you're single. But I know that it's not impossible.

Right?

My. My income is at the top, basically. So I do have a little bit of a side hustle of conducting, choral conducting, and then I have the opportunity to have a tenant. My father was living with us and was for the last couple years and was helping financially a little bit. He passed away on Memorial Day. So, yeah, it's been a big loss. Miss him a lot. But with the with tenant situation, you know, and the side hustle, I could probably bring in about 120,000 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's great.

[Caller]

Total.

Total, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you want to do that? Do you want to have a tenant? Is it like an attached apartment type situation, or are they, like, in the house with you?

[Caller]

So it would be technically in the house, but, like, we would. Well, not in the house. It would be like a basement, walking basement situation.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you want to do that because you're on baby steps four, five, and six. I mean, the hustle is great, but it's. It's not absolutely necessary unless you're like, oh, no, I'm. I. I want to keep.

[Caller]

You know, I'm okay with it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, great.

[Caller]

I mean, obviously, it's got to be the right fit. Yeah, it's. It's small, so it would probably be great for, like, an older, single person or doesn't have to be an older person. But I was thinking someone with a calm.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, someone that you feel comfortable with living in such a close proximity to.

[Rachel Cruze]

You and your child.

[Caller]

Exactly. Yeah. The child got to be there.

[Jade Warshaw]

What are you concerned about?

[Caller]

About?

Well, like I said, it's just. So one thing is, you know, in terms of, like, my savings, I. As a teacher, I'll have my pension. And if I work as many years as I plan to, which I think I still have another 18 years, but I can collect 75% of my top three years. So. So one concern I have is that I'm kind of at the top right now with my. With my page.

[Rachel Cruze]

Megan, we're running out of time. We got 30 seconds. What's the one question we can help you with?

[Caller]

Okay, so can I still. Can I still become a baby steps millionaire? Help my daughter where you are?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Well, Megan, I mean, honestly, the fact that you are so far ahead in the baby steps, the best way to help your daughter is showing the example of what to do. And you are doing that so beautifully. So beautifully. So your example, first and foremost, is everything. And then number two, you just keep working. I mean, you have 200 left on the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

House.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. You're making some, you know, great money.

[Jade Warshaw]

120. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And then. And then if you're going to do this extra side hustle, you'll be able to pay it down even faster, even with the tenant. So I think, honestly, you just kind of keep moving through it, and it. And it may look different paces for different people depending on their income, but you're doing. Yeah. Exactly what you should be doing, Megan. I mean, honestly, I want you to be proud of yourself because you're absolutely incredible. So keep it up. So, yes, you can. Can become baby step civilian as a single mom. Well, that's it for today, everyone. And remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Dave Ramsey]

No matter what.