INTERVIEW What Happens to Money in 2025?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The REAL David Knight Show

Episode: INTERVIEW: What Happens to Money in 2025?
Host: David Knight
Guest: Tony Arterburn
Date: January 2, 2025

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Overview

In this insightful episode, David Knight welcomes returning guest Tony Arterburn—veteran precious metals dealer, entrepreneur, and astute observer of both financial and geopolitical trends—for a wide-ranging discussion about the future of money in 2025. The conversation digs into the fate of the U.S. dollar, gold, bitcoin, the role of central banks, and the far-reaching political implications of America’s monetary crisis. Both Knight and Arterburn bring a blend of historical perspective, skepticism toward official narratives, and a sense of humor to the analysis, offering listeners a blend of hard finance, political critique, and spiritual wisdom as they brace for a turbulent year.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of the Financial System and 2025 Outlook

• Hacked Treasury & Systemic Vulnerabilities

  • The episode opens with a wry discussion about the recent hacking of the U.S. Treasury. Knight jokes about the irony, suggesting the U.S. government has done more damage to itself than any foreign agent could ([01:47]).
  • “If it was the Chinese, joke’s on them because we’ve already done the damage to our financial system ourselves.” – Tony ([02:26])

• Debt, Inflation, and the Dollar’s Decline

  • Tony underscores the unsustainable and accelerating trajectory of U.S. debt, noting Trump’s push to remove the debt ceiling and a national debt now increasing by about $1 trillion every 100 days ([03:04]).
  • The weakening of the dollar is a central theme:
    • "The dollar is going to continue to lose purchasing power... We are reliant on the creation of cheap fiat currency to maintain this system, and that's the fatal flaw." – Tony ([03:04])
  • Both agree government spending and central bank policies make meaningful fiscal reform impossible in the current system.

2. Gold, Silver & Historic Value

• Gold as a Store of Value

  • Tony points out that gold has preserved purchasing power across a century, unlike the rapidly depreciating dollar. He calls gold and silver “a storage of energy, work and time that maintains its value” ([07:56]).
  • Historical anecdotes (e.g., the price of records in the 1960s) illustrate how fiat currency erodes over time, further strengthening the case for precious metals.

• Silver Price Suppression & Reserve Assets

  • Tony notes that silver prices are artificially low given supply deficits, and that gold’s elevation to a Tier 1 reserve asset by the Bank of International Settlements has made it rival the dollar as a preferred global reserve ([09:00 – 10:10]).

• The World Moving Away from Dollar Hegemony

  • Tony warns the de-dollarization trend is picking up speed, as global dollar reserves have dropped from about 73% in 2001 to below 55% ([07:56]).

3. Bitcoin & Crypto: Hype vs Reality

• Bitcoin’s Trajectory and Institutional Adoption

  • Knight and Tony discuss the volatility of bitcoin, with Tony predicting a generally upward trend but dismissing wild “million dollar bitcoin” predictions. He views institutional moves (e.g., ETFs, Larry Fink) as efforts to mainstream digital assets, but warns of pump-and-dump scenarios ([03:04], [19:07]).
  • "I don't get on these hype trains. I think that's a dangerous thing to promise people what the price is going to be…" – Tony ([20:30])

• Bitcoin vs. CBDCs and Government Control

  • Tony is skeptical bitcoin will become a reserve currency for the U.S. anytime soon, though smaller nations may adopt it first ([14:36]).
  • Central banks and the political class remain firmly opposed to truly decentralized assets:
    • “The opposition of bitcoin coming from central banksters is going to be very strong. It'll filter into our politics.” – Tony ([15:51])
  • Knight warns that regulatory moves around bitcoin may be a diversion paving the way for a “de facto CBDC”—digital money that functions as surveillance money, even if not branded as such ([19:07], [23:21]).

• Tokenization, Stablecoins & Regulatory Capture

  • “They got everybody looking at bitcoin... while they do something very nefarious on the side with this stuff and kind of come in as a de facto CBDC.” – David ([19:07])
  • Both highlight the importance of banning not just “CBDC” as a term, but the features that make it dangerous: surveillance, programmability, digital ID, loss of privacy ([23:21]).

4. Politics, Partisanship & Economic Policy

• Tribal Partisanship and Fiscal Amnesia

  • Tony and David criticize the tendency of both right and left to "go to sleep" when their team is in power, referencing unfulfilled promises during Trump’s previous term ([24:38]).

• Tariffs, Economic Nationalism & Global Fallout

  • Tony describes Trump's tariff proposals as incoherent when paired with a weaker dollar policy ([27:44]).
  • "That's just an incoherent, schizophrenic economic policy to say that we want a weaker dollar, but we want high tariffs." – Tony ([29:45])
  • They warn tariffs could trigger a significant global economic crisis, especially given the hollowed-out U.S. production base and consumption-focused economy ([26:05]).

5. Practical Advice & The Launch of Wise Wolf Bitcoin

• Tony previews “Wise Wolf Bitcoin,” a new platform for seamlessly swapping bitcoin and precious metals without fees ([20:30], [32:48]). He stresses the importance of working with trustworthy, transparent brokers vs. faceless exchanges.
• Tony: “We're going to be the first no-fee broker in America. If you want to turn your bitcoin into gold or silver, you can get with us directly and there’s no fee.” ([20:30])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On US Debt and Currency:

  • “Trump’s calling for the removal of the debt ceiling… So the dollar is going to have to be weakened in order to inflate their way out of all the fiscal damage…” – Tony ([03:04])

• On Precious Metals vs Fiat:

  • “Gold is always going to retain some sort of value… Gold buys the same amount of land, crude oil, clothing and groceries that it did a hundred years ago.” – Tony ([03:04])

• On Bitcoin Maximalism:

  • “I do see a continual trend upward as far as the dollar is concerned. And that’s because we have a weaker dollar.” – Tony ([03:04])

• On Central Bank Control:

  • “Don't forget who runs this country... it’s the people behind the scenes. And especially in a world of central banking control and fiat currency, it’s even worse…” – Tony ([15:51])

• On CBDCs:

  • “They're going to rebrand a lot of it, but the danger lies in the volatility of the markets themselves. What goes on with crypto... I trust bitcoin's network, but I don't trust the people that are trying to hijack it.” – Tony ([22:47])

• On False Security in Politics:

  • “When we perceive a win, you just lay down your arms and then figure... I'm going to go to sleep for four years, and then you wake up to a lockdown. And then there's President Fauci.” – Tony ([24:38])

• On Tariff Policy:

  • "You want two things that are diametrically opposed. You want a weaker dollar, and then you want to have high tariffs. Well, that doesn't work." – Tony ([29:45])

• On Economic Change:

  • “The world’s dumping [the dollar], and it’s dumping it rapidly… All these things are unsustainable.” – Tony ([07:56])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:47 – 03:04: Opening: Treasury hack, government self-destruction, setup for financial chaos in 2025
• 03:04 – 07:56: Gold, bitcoin, inflation, declining purchasing power of the dollar
• 07:56 – 10:10: Gold/silver’s role, price suppression, global movement from dollar to gold
• 12:22 – 15:11: History lesson: Ford, gold legalization, fiat currency lifespans, and U.S. corporate debt
• 14:36 – 22:47: Bitcoin’s reserve currency potential, ETF institutionalization, central bank resistance, CBDCs & rebranding
• 20:30 – 22:47: Tony announces Wise Wolf Bitcoin, fee-free bitcoin/gold/silver swap
• 23:21 – 24:38: Dangers of regulatory capture, the “CBDC by another name” threat
• 24:38 – 26:05: Partisan politics, the Great Reset, central banks remonetizing debt
• 26:05 – 32:17: Tariff policies, globalization, incoherence in U.S. economic policy, risks of weaponizing the dollar
• 32:48 – 34:21: Wise Wolf Bitcoin project details, philosophy of personal financial sovereignty
• 34:21 – End: Light banter, parting thoughts, Tony’s upcoming projects

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Tone & Style

The episode blends frank skepticism of government, a measured sense of financial pessimism, and dark humor. Both host and guest offer historical context, cite economics and personal anecdotes, and encourage critical thinking about mainstream narratives and partisan politics.

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Final Thoughts

Knight and Arterburn leave listeners with a sobering, actionable message: 2025 is likely to bring greater financial unrest and monetary upheaval. Protecting yourself means understanding the underlying risks of fiat currency, avoiding partisan complacency, and seeking tangible stores of value such as gold and (with caution) bitcoin. As Arterburn puts it: “In a world of bulls and bears, be the wolf.” ([35:43])

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For further information or to follow up with Tony’s programs:

• Wise Wolf Bitcoin launching soon (details in the episode: [20:30], [32:48])
• “In a world of bulls and bears, be the wolf.”
• DavidKnight.gold for gold/silver programs and insights

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Transcript

[David Knight]

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[Tony]

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[David Knight]

All right, welcome back. And of course I heard the bells on Christmas Day. That was written during the Civil War. I was saying, wait a minute, what is all this about peace on earth? Well, it wasn't about that kind of peace. It definitely wasn't about that. But joining us now after Tony has had some peace, peace and quiet for a little bit of time, he took some time off for the holidays. Good to have you on, Tony. How was your holidays?

[Tony]

Oh, it's fantastic, David. Yeah, it's great to see you again. It's good to be back. Took a little bit of time off and traveled a little bit and just again absorbing all this stuff going into 2025, I knew was going to be turbulent. Just I felt like that going into 2020 and a lot of times the history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes and we're starting it off with a bang, it looks like.

[David Knight]

Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And we were talking about, laughing about the fact that the treasury got hacked. I talked about this, I guess on Tuesday. I said it's only fair since they hacke our financial system, they would get hacked. But of course we don't know that it was a Chinese, as I said, because of Vault 7. What we do know is that it is impossible for them to know who hacked them. It could have been any state actor that could have made it look like the Chinese if in fact they did that. Or it could be any individuals, it could be any criminals who wanted to do that. So we don't know. So they've obviously got an agenda to say that it was the Chinese who did it. And of course that's the other thing that's worrying about 2025 and that is a war with China.

[Tony]

That's right. If it was the Chinese, joke's on them because we've already done the damage to our financial system ourselves. We don't need their help. It's kind of like the scene on Dumb and Dumber when they open the briefcase and it's full of IOUs and they say those are IOUs, those are better than money. And that's pretty much what our treasury's done.

[David Knight]

I never saw that movie. I had to see that scene. That's great. So how do you look at the next year here when we look at gold and bitcoin? I mean, last time we talked bitcoin was up at record highs and everything. It's now dropped down. Gold has dropped down somewhat. Of course, a lot of that's going to be year end profit taking. What do you see happening as we move forward?

[Tony]

Well, that's exactly right on bitcoin. I think it's year end profit taking. And right now the whales are still accumulating bitcoin. I see a drive in price. I don't know. Some of the bitcoin maximalists, they call for some wild predictions. Million dollar bitcoin in the next year and a half. I really don't see that. But I do see a continual trend upward as far as the dollar is concerned. And that's because we have a weaker dollar. I mean this, the dollar is going to continue to lose purchasing power. And I know this because Trump's calling for the removal of the debt ceiling. $36 trillion in debt that only increases about every hundred days. You see another addition of about a trillion. So the dollar is going to have to be weakened in order to inflate their way out of all the fiscal damage that's been done over many decades. And that's again all accelerating. Same thing with gold. Gold's going to continue against. The dollar will continue to rise in price. But these are all things that I think we step back every week and we talk about this. It's not necessarily gold is the best investment on earth or something. It's just money against something that is fake. Gold is always going to retain some sort of value and we talk about that just relative to what it was purchasing power 100 years ago. I mean, gold buys the same amount of land, crude oil, clothing and groceries that it did relative to, you know, again, price of inflation or, you know, any statistical anomaly, gold's going to buy about the same amount of product that it did 100 years ago. And looking at the markets and everything that we're seeing now, there's no reason to think that we're going to get fiscally responsible. Even if you bring in something like the Doge thing with, with Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, you're still going to see, even if they are able to lay off people and cut government spending, that's going to cause damage to the gdp. We are reliant on debt. We are reliant on the creation of cheap fiat currency to maintain this system, that system, and that's the fatal flaw in the fiat currency system, in the central banking system, is in order to do anything, you have to create more currency. You know, that is the truth if you really boil it down, because we have a central bank, the way it works, if you were ever to try to pay off the debt to, you would have to create more currency to do it. That's the snake eating its own tail. That was the Federal Reserve itself. So we're not going to get out of that trap. And that's why I think things that are finite, gold, silver, bitcoin, against our modern fiat currency monetary system are always going to be doing well.

[David Knight]

Yeah, yeah. As a matter of fact, Trump doesn't believe that Doge is going to work, does he? He wouldn't be so adamant and angry about getting the debt ceiling raised for another two years if he thought Doge was going to do anything. He knows it's not going to do any commission after commission, go out and make recommendations, and of course Congress won't act on it. So, yeah, it isn't going to really make any difference with that. While you were, I guess the last week or so, I talked about the fact that there was an article saying that for every dollar that the government spends, it takes $5 out of the GDP in many cases. But I'm sorry, for taxes, I should say for every dollar in taxes, it takes $5 out of the GDP. But they said for every bureaucrat job, that One bureaucrat destroys 138 jobs with regulations. And so that's total sense.

[Tony]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Knight]

That was an interesting study that was done by a university and I think it was Mises that put that out there. But when we talk about inflation. Just a little story here. Karen and I watched Brigadoon and because we'd never seen this version, I hated. I was in middle school, I was in the pit band that did It. So I liked the music and I had some fond memories of it. We had a little bit of time with the holiday and so we watched a TV production of it that was done by Robert Goulet that really focused more on the music than on the sets and things like that they did in the thing. And so I thought, well, that was pretty good. And I thought. And at the very end of it, the whole thing was sponsored by Armstrong. They said, well, you can pick up this album for $1 at the Armstrong store. And I thought, I wonder if anybody's got that album. And I found it on the Internet and it only cost $4. And I said, I won much that $1 in 1966 would be. Well, of course they use these inflation calculators, use the government's calculation, so it's under reported. But it said that that $1 album would cost $10 today, $9.95. And Whistler said, well, look at that. Look at all the money you saved just by waiting for 60 years. But that's the whole reason we get gold, isn't it? Because gold appreciates some of those periods of time. Because the dollar is depreciating against it. Just that the fiat currency is disappearing.

[Tony]

That's right. I mean, gold and silver hold their value. They are money. And that's why you won't find the word investment on any of my websites. I don't call it that. It's not. That's not what it is. It's a representation. It's a storage of energy, work and time that maintains its value. And it has pretty much for the last 5,000 years and the modern economy certainly. I mean, we've gone out the gold standard in 1971. And that's what I track. I mean, all these numbers or these metrics, I don't even think they're real. I mean, look at the price of silver. I don't think the price of silver should be what it is today. I think it should be much higher. Just given the fact of, of the deficits in silver that are in the, you know, 200 million ounces a year that were short and have to take from the above ground supply. The gold silver ratio is completely off. Historically, we're way off the mark for that. So I watch all kinds of things like that, David, that lead me to continue to be bullish on whatever that means for pricing on gold and silver. But the world's moving away from the dollar. That's certainly going to change all of our perceptions of what the dollar means. And you know what our financial situation is here in the United States, that's going to continue to be precarious. It's going to be up in the air because the world's dumping it and it's dumping it rapidly. I mean, I saw a metric the other day, it was like world usage of the dollar in foreign reserves was 73% or so in 2001, and it's under 55% today and dwindling. And of course, the second most held reserve asset in the world after Basel III. And a few years ago, back in 2021, the bank of International Settlements made gold a tier one asset on the books and instead of a tier three. And so that's basically on par with currency and it's now supplanted the euro. So it used to be the dollar, then the euro and world reserve currency assets, and now it's the dollar and gold. And I've said many times already this last few months that I think gold's already taken the dollar as the world's reserve currency. Given what BRICS is trying to do. It's not that BRICS is trying to create a different currency, it's just cross border payment systems and ways for them to trade based on something backed by gold.

[David Knight]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, you've talked about, about Gerald Ford making gold legal. Did you realize that it was 50 years ago on New Year's Eve. That was when he made that declaration. He rescinded the executive order of FDR and he made gold legal for American citizens holding any amount. I think I had always thought that it was a prohibition of Americans holding gold, but he prohibited them having more than $100 worth of gold at a time. So he got rid of that with his executive order, which again is another thing. We see Trump all the time saying he can't do this or can't do that. And he asked the Supreme Court if he can get rid of the executive orders from the previous presidents. No, you can't do that. But of course you can. But that was 50 years ago that happened.

[Tony]

I made a post about that, just started meditating on that on New Year's Eve. And I thought, you know, I feel like I'm in the right place at the right time. All the things that I study in my wheelhouse and things that interest me and I realized just the historical significance of the time that we're in. You got to remember the average lifespan of a fiat currency is 26 years. So we've doubled that and now we're on the edge I think the knife's edge of a real change when it comes to the financial system. And I mean, I saw something other day. Corporate debt, David, is 8 trillion.

[David Knight]

Wow.

[Tony]

Corporate debt, 8 trillion. There's just all these metrics that are showing us that all these things are unsustainable because, you know, every time we get into a problem, especially in the last 20 or 30 years, they just decided, we'll inflate our way out of this.

[David Knight]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And whether it's too big to fail in jail or just, you know, unnecessary unconstitutional wars, you know, the, the welfare state, the entrenched deep state, whatever the programs and things they need to fund the $2.3 trillion that Donald Rumsfeld couldn't find on September 10, 2001. All these things come back to the, the fake currency. And so we're going to see, I think, just continual bad policy from the, from the federal government and emanating from all central banks around the world. That's why I'm looking at what money used to be. And I think history will, I think history will treat us pretty kindly.

[David Knight]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Look at that. I don't know when Nixon resigned and Gerald Ford took over, but that was pretty close to the beginning of it. I mean, you know, he got resigned in 73 or something, didn't he?

[Tony]

Yeah, he did. Nixon resigned August 9, 1974. And wow. Yeah. So it was right away.

[David Knight]

Right away, yeah.

[Tony]

Ford, I think, pardoned Nixon right after that. And with a couple of months. And then Gerald Ford made gold illegal. And that's right, you, fdr. It didn't necessarily make it illegal for you to own gold. It was like you said, $100 worth. And I think there was some things left over for collectibles. There's obviously dentists and jewelers. But he made it to where you couldn't use gold as your primary metric of savings. That's the way they wanted to make sure that you. They called it anti hoarding, which is an interesting word. They didn't want you to be able to use it for your wealth.

[David Knight]

Yeah. Wow. It is interesting as we see the passing of Jimmy Carter, to think about the fact that we look at his record that he had compared to Gerald Ford, who is not. I'm not a big Ford supporter, but I tell you what, compared to Jimmy Carter, it truly was amazing. Not going to see Carter or do something like this. But you know, you mentioned the fact.

[Tony]

That.

[David Knight]

Gold is not an investment. Right. It is a store of value or whatever. But when we look at bitcoin Aaron Day has talked about it. Roger Ver has talked about it. The fact they wanted to get back to the original design of bitcoin. The big hope, I think of all the people who are long term bitcoin supporters has been that it's going to be a reserve currency. Now we're hearing from people that in spite of what Trump was hinting and RFK Jr were hinting, that's not going to happen. They said it might happen first in some smaller nations, but it's going to take a while for that to happen. What is your opinion about that? About whether or not it'll be a reserve and how is that going to affect. Everybody's looking at the deregulation aspect of it. But that was also a part of the calculation, I think of people getting into bitcoin as well. What is your take on where that's going to go in the next year?

[Tony]

Yeah, I was in Nashville listening to RFK Jr. And then following that, Trump spoke, of course, RFK Jr. Much more specific, much more bullish, I think much more savvy on how bitcoin works and what it means. And Trump just was convinced and of course was reading off a script. And you can tell that by when he came across the GDP being surpassed by from bitcoin to silver. He thought it was just kind of surprised. Wow, it really passed the gdp. That's the market cap of silver.

[David Knight]

I should read my speeches before I give them.

[Tony]

Yeah, it was. So I think that that is up in the air. It would set off a chain reaction. There's going to be. And here's the tell I thought was interesting. I'm glad you brought that up. I watched this is between the time I've been on again. Jerome Powell was asked about that. Totally dismissive. That's not in the purview of the. Our charter, the Federal Reserve. We have nothing to do with that. It's not something that we deal with. It's not outlined in any. That we do just any. And he took a while before he ends. He took a pause. I think it was like three or four seconds, maybe five seconds. Just sit there and looked at the guy. So there's a don't get, you know.

[David Knight]

Get for dramatic effect. Really. You know, for dramatic effect.

[Tony]

And it was just like we just. They just look down on this and it's like it's a phenomenon, you know, something that's in the way. It's a speed bump. We got it. We didn't really figure how to get rid of this thing yet. So I, I think that the powers that be, especially the central banksters, and don't forget who runs this country, don't forget who runs things. You know, you see the people out front, but they're not really in charge. It's the people behind the scenes. And that's the way history works, ladies and gentlemen. It's the way there's always power brokers behind the scenes. And especially in a world of central banking control and fiat currency, it's even worse because you can hide and cover up so much. There doesn't have to be, you know, fiscal debates anymore in this country. We don't really have that. We're going to, that will be, that will be the future, but it's not right now. So I think that the opposition of bitcoin coming from central banksters is going to be very strong. It'll filter into our politics. And you know, we saw that through the first Trump administration. That's why I didn't get excited about this one. You know, people want me to have selective amnesia and forget that there was a 2017 through 2021. I remember those years and I remember the promises that were made and weren't kept. And I remember the fiscal house that was set on fire. You know, again, Wilbur Ross, everybody remember Wilbur Ross and who he was. And you know, was it, was he Commerce Secretary? Is that who he was, David? I mean, he came in. Yeah. And he was a Rothschilds agent. He's what bailed Trump in the 90s.

[David Knight]

And now we got lucky. Lutnick is going to be the Commerce Secretary who is all about tokenization and securitization. Right?

[Tony]

Right. Yeah. There will be some crypto moves in the Trump administration. And I've said that I think though. But we're starting to see, especially with the H1B visas and all this stuff, they're going to walk back a lot of the America first stuff. They're going to walk back a lot of the promises made. It's the way that politics work. You know, what is it? The H.L. menkins? It's an advanced auction on stolen goods or something like that. What an election is so now. But I think in the long term, bitcoin has its place. It's probably far too, far too long out of its inception to put it back. I mean, it can't go anywhere. There will be smaller nation states that do something, but the United States still may put it on some sort of balance sheet or anything. But there's, there's a lot of momentum in Congress and for that and there's a political, I think political will to do something with bitcoin. So we'll see. I just try to keep that out of my focus for what, what I think bitcoin is. And I think, you know, it's whether it's, you know, I said last year at the beginning of the year, hey, really watch bitcoin because you know it was picked up by the ETFs, you know, Larry Fink, BlackRock were pushing. And I thought well that's a huge departure. Are you guys paying attention? I think bitcoin was like 29,000 and I was saying this is, you know, I started buying it on, on a daily for, for my company's reserves. So you know, that was a good decision because here we are, you know, year later and it's already surpassed at one time 108,000. It's down to 98,000 when I check spot before the broadcast. So I think that will be a trend that continues. But it's not going to, I don't think unless something huge happens, it's not going to go parabolic like we're going to see half a million dollar bitcoin in the next eight months or something.

[David Knight]

I think they will continue the pump though before they do the dump. Just make sure that you're not their exit strategy when this stuff happens. But I think they're going to continue to pump it because on the other side of this stuff you've got Lootnik and Tether and stablecoins and securitization and tokenization, all these other things. That's really what they're working on the side. They got everybody looking at bitcoin and they're using bitcoin I think to get people excited about digital money and about the blockchain and stuff like that. While they do something very nefarious on the side with this stuff and kind of come in as a de facto cbdc. Now the bank of International Settlements is talking about the fact they're going to continue on with their cbdc. But I think that the way that's going to roll out in the US uk, the five eyes that already said, you know, a couple months ago they said, well we're not going to do anything called cbdc but they will do the functions of CBDC I think. And I think part of what is happening with the bitcoin and the deregulation around cryptocurrency is to pave the way for that de facto CBDC that's going to be like a public private Partnership and people like Larry Lutnick are going to make a lot of money off of this. And many people and the Trump administration are connected to that. That's what I'm looking at. So I'm still looking at gold as a hedge against that type of stuff.

[Tony]

Gold's going to be more steady. The volatility of crypto and bitcoin itself is much more of a high risk asset. And I'm in it. And wise Wolf, bitcoins about to launch. That'll be a new program that we have within the next 45 days. Making a lot of progress there. It's going to be great. For those that want to trade some of their crypto bitcoin and turn it into gold and silver. I made an announcement on Tinfoil Hat that we're going to be the first no fee broker in America. If you want to turn your bitcoin into gold or silver, you can get with us directly and there's no fee. There's no other gold and silver company that does that. And we're going to be able to do that because we're going to make a symbiotic relationship between the two. So I am an advocate of bitcoin. However, I don't get on these hype trains. I think that's a dangerous thing to promise people what the price is going to be because I do agree with you. They can pump and dump, especially when they've got the ETFs now and the inflows. They get the price really, you know, when. Because most this. The sad part about investing is that what I've watched is that when the price starts to go up, really go up on anything, that's when people jump in. They don't. There's fear of missing out. They got to get in there and they want to ride the wave at the top. It's for the wrong time to get in. And you got to look at things when you know, and again, use, use your own research and your own, you know, background and things that you find viable. If you want to get into something, you know, that needs to be a personal choice. But that's what's going to happen when the thing implodes. That's when they always come in with the regulation. You know, it's problem, reaction, solution. And that's what I fear with the cbdc. However, the mixed bag on that, the double edge of the sword is that bitcoin created a culture which I've found fast. I've been in bitcoin for, you know, since 2016. The fascinating part about bitcoin is that the people around it, especially the podcasters and the young folks, they really, you know, they're skeptical of central banking. They don't like. They talk about fiat currency. So selling them on a CBDC because they use Bitcoin is a moot. It's not going to work. They don't like cbdc. And I think it's, you know, something that we should be. Feel thankful for is the fact that the term CBDC now is dangerous. And it didn't. It wasn't three years ago.

[David Knight]

That's right.

[Tony]

But you and I've been talking about it for years. I mean, long before anybody knew what it was. I mean, the first broadcast I ever did with you, we were talking about world currency. And I think it was like the end of 28 and 19 going into 2020. So, yeah, we've come a long way with that. They're going to rebrand a lot of it, but the danger lies in the volatility of the markets themselves. What goes on with crypto, especially these stablecoins, we don't really know. I trust bitcoin's network, but I don't trust the people that are trying to hijack it. And that's the thing that we got to differentiate on.

[David Knight]

And again, look at the damage that they can do with something. It's independent of the asset itself. Look at what they did to real estate when they came up with the derivatives. And so you got Larry Fink, who's saying, well, it doesn't really matter to what I'm doing, whether it's Trump or Biden. It doesn't really matter what I'm doing because I'm doing derivatives and I can manipulate the market in really sinister ways. I think that's the key thing. And you're right, everybody has caught onto the term cbdc. So. So I said we need to focus on what the characteristics of CBDC that are negative were and try to get. Because you've got all these legislatures now that are starting to. Several different states have got pending legislation to ban cbdc. But it's not just that. It's the privacy. It's having a digital id, it's having programmability where you can manipulate it. It's those types of things that need to be banned, not the term cbdc. They'll call it something else and they'll come at it from a different angle. And that's what I think is really concerning, especially because with Trump, everybody just shuts down and says, well, that's okay. We're fine. We don't need to buy guns, we don't need to buy gold. He's got it covered. We're all doing great now because we got a Republican in, and even better, we got Trump in. So everybody just lulled to sleep with all of this stuff.

[Tony]

It's the dangerous part of our politics now that's so tribal is that when we perceive a win, you just lay down your arms and then figure out it's, you know, it's done and we're good and I'm going to go to sleep for four years, and then you wake up to a lockdown. And then there's President Fauci. That's the problem with those kind of politics. And that's why I told you we had the. Right before the election, we had that interview together, and I said, look, you know, one of two ways, you know, if there's a Trump win and gold and silver will take a hit, bitcoin will go up, and the opposite if there's a Harris win. So that's what we're seeing. There's a lot of profit taking at the end of the year. But going at the fundamentals, what drove the price of gold the last few years? What has been that? Well, it's, it's the decline de dollarization. The supremacy of the dollar is waning. The American empire is in trouble. The geopolitical tensions are heating up and central banks are buying gold because they're going to remonetize their debt. They're going to reset. They call it a great reset. Matter of fact, we're, we're, this is halftime show for the decade of the great reset, folks. And that's, this is what we're watching. The, the powers that be, the Davos set, they've already decided the future. You're just playing catch up. We're all just playing catch up, looking at what's happening with our currency system, which, again, massive change is going to happen because of the damage done. And gold and silver, bitcoin, these things will hold their value, I believe, going into the next five years.

[David Knight]

And when we look at it, the economic unrest, one of the things that kicked all this stuff off in many different ways and not just the massive spending. And who was it that gave us a steeper curve on the spending and on the debt, you know, than it was Trump. And of course it was Biden kept up that pace, but he's the one who escalated very rapidly. And now we've got something that I think is gonna be a real economic bomb that he's ready to throw in. And that's gonna be the tariff stuff. Because in a sense what he's doing is he's weaponizing the US's position. You know, well, we got the petrodollar, so let's use that as a weapon. And now Trump is saying, well, we're buying so much stuff, let's use that as a weapon. When you start doing this, it's going to create all kinds of secondary and tertiary effects. It's going to just be a big bomb in the global economy. I played a clip from China that I couldn't believe the other day, Tony, and it was a lot of people taking independent people in China, taking videos and posting them up of how empty the trains going into Beijing were, how empty the streets were, how nobody was shopping or buying anything, how the stores and the malls were empty and the restaurants. And it truly was amazing because that was one of the things when we were there, just a sea of people everywhere you would go, especially in the retail areas, everything was a ghost town. And so if you're going to throw tariffs into that, you're going to create a real bomb of a financial system and then everything is up for grabs. Now they're going, that's their crisis. And they're going to come up with all kinds of radical solutions if they create a radical crisis. And I think the trigger for that may be the tariffs. That's just the way I'm seeing it. Yeah.

[Tony]

Sadly, I believe you're right, David, because I've always been a fan of tariffs. I believe that's what the country was built on. I believe in economic nationalism, but there has to be a coherent policy. Ever since we gave away America's manufacturing, and make no mistake, it was given away. It was literally the pawning of America's soul. As Pat Buchanan said. He wrote a book in the late 90s called the Great Betrayal. That's exactly what it was. It was given away through free trade programs that the corporations were given a backdoor exit and said, hey, you can take your factories and, and moving them over to Mexico or moving them to China and we'll just let you in. You know, without, without a tax completely free, you can get away with lower wages, no environmental regulations. You don't have to fight the good fight here. And it really backs up what Thomas Jefferson said about merchants have no country. They don't fight for lower taxes or fight for the American way or prosperity here. What's good for GM is good for America. Used to be the slogan that makes no sense anymore, as we're in a global economy. And so I think it's become a consumer nation. Even Paul Volcker said that it was former head of the Federal Reserve. He said, what's wrong with the. You know, they was being interviewed in Congress in the early 80s and said, what's the problem with the U.S. economy? Said, well, we become a consumption economy, not a production economy. And what Trump's talking about, well, first of all, he wants two things that are diametrically opposed. He wants a weaker dollar, and then he wants to have high tariffs. Well, that doesn't work. I mean, you have to have a strong dollar in a production economy if you want to build that. That's economic nationalism. But you can't say, well, we've got to have massive amounts of debt. We're going to print our way out of this. We're going to have massive liquidity, you know, a roaring stock market, all that stuff. And at the same time, we're going to charge you 100% tariff if you don't use the dollar to help us continue our Ponzi scheme. Because that's what it is. It's using the dollar after 1971 is making sure that we don't have fiscal Armageddon, because if it's not backed by anything, then you have to continue to use it through something called money velocity in order to. It's like Tinkerbell. If you don't clap, Tinkerbell dies. Right? The same thing with fiat currency. And the problem with Trump's. That's just an incoherent, schizophrenic economic policy to say that we want a weaker dollar, but we want high tariffs. That. You know, Buchanan wrote a book that I read. It was one of the inspirations to get me to. To get back into politics or get into politics in general and actually go run for office and start a radio show. It's called Suicide of a Superpower. And the subtitle of that book was Can America Survive to 2025? And it was written in 2011. And I was reading that map at the end of 2011, around this same time, you know, the Christmas New Year season. And one of the chapters in there was about the Federal Reserve, and it talked about how the Federal Reserve was. Was responsible for the Great Depression and the Smoot Hawley act were framed. Smoot and Holly were framed. It was the actual. Because that Smoot and Holly's. The tariffs of the, of the Great Depression that were so high. You know, you See that famous scene from Ferris Bueller. Yeah, Ferris Bueller's Day off. Or Ben Stein blaming Smoot and Hollywood.

[David Knight]

Anyone? Anyone?

[Tony]

Anyone? Right, Bueller. That's exactly right. And so. But that's. Just think about that. Take a step back for a second and think about how incoherent we've become. I didn't think we'd be talking about tariffs in my lifetime. I didn't think that I was just a. I thought I was a rogue. You know, America first or before that was a term that was acceptable to use again back in 2013. But now that doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, these are just. These aren't. This is not economic nationalism. That's weaponization of the dollar by other.

[David Knight]

Yeah, well, I mean, just look at what Trump did. We're a consumer economy. We've given away our manufacturing, and we aren't going to get it back as long as we've got the Paris Climate Accord in, because it's going to be too expensive for us to manufacture anything here, regardless of all the rest of this stuff, the slave labor, the piracy, you name it. That's the thing. That is the determining thing. And Trump pretended that we're in the Paris Climate Accord and all the Republicans pretended that we're in it. And there was never a vote on that as a treaty. And so. So, you know, when you look at that, you know that they're not going to address the problems. Guard's got a comment. Guard Goldsmith. He says, I like the idea of directly turning crypto into gold or silver than moving to Siberia. Well, that's coming up. Pretty soon you'll be able to go different directions there with that strategy.

[Tony]

It's just a. You can see, you know, Sarah Palin can see it from her backyard. Guard, get over there to Alaska. It's right there.

[David Knight]

Or Greenland. Right, Greenland. That's on this. On his wish list. He went to Greenland and Canada. So it's crazy. Anyway, it's going to be a crazy year, isn't it? And it is going to be interesting. And you say you're going to roll that out course. Are you waiting for them to change some of the egregious regulations around crypto and everything before you jump into it? Are you preparing to do it?

[Tony]

No, I'm just going full steam ahead. It's always. If you're waiting for them. Famous meme of the skeleton sitting at the desk. I don't think I'm waiting. I'm gonna. I'm just complying with. We've got a great, great compliance officer and people that we've already put on retainer. It's just taking me forever to projects don't take me like they used to, David. It seems like it's. Everything's in slow motion on one side and then moving fast on the other. I don't know if it's just me or. Or what.

[David Knight]

It's. Age.

[Tony]

Is it age? Okay, thank you. I just turned 45, so I'm like, is something what's right? Okay, thanks. I'll be looking forward to that. But, yeah, we're working on that. We've got Wise Wolf. Bitcoin is about to launch. You'll be able to do the same thing like you did with Wolf Pack. We'll put it up on, like, automatics. It'll be for white glove service for people that want to own some bitcoin or diversify, but not, you know, deal with Coinbase or some. Be it a fake, you know, a faceless thing that, you know. I've had trouble with those networks, by the way. Yeah, they're not the. You know, if you're trusting them, it's a little bit of rolling the dice. So with me, you won't have to do that. And we will have a pretty symbiotic network between the precious metals and crypto. And I say crypto, I mean, bitcoin, I'm really not into any other coins. We might be able to help you do that, but that's not going to be our primary focus. It'll just be bitcoin to gold and silver and vice versa. If you want to sell some silver and buy some bitcoin, we'll be able to help you do that. That's really what we're adding. And it'll be a coherent network integrated to what we do.

[David Knight]

Well, that's great. Yeah. The Chinese curse is coming up in 2025. Live in interesting times. I think this is gonna be a very, very interesting year. I expect to be fully venerated in terms of what I said about Trump, because it's already been venerated as we look at this. They haven't even made it through the wedding yet. You know, usually you got a wedding and you got a honeymoon. Well, they're already having spats before the wedding even takes place, so forget about a honeymoon. Always great to have you on, Tony. And you got a program that is following up right after this.

[Tony]

Yes, sir. Just after this. 11:00am Central Time, 12 Eastern. The art of Burn radio transmission. Every week on Thursday, my interview with you so come join us. We'll be on Rumble on the America Unplugged channel. Rockfin America Unplugged and my Twitter onyterburn. Follow us there.

[David Knight]

Well, it's great to have you back. Always good to talk to you. And again you can go DavidKnight Gold take you to Tony and he's always got these innovative programs like he's talking about doing with bitcoin. And the so Wise Wolf package I thought was great. I like the slogan that you got. Jason sent me some as a gift off of Wolf Pack. And in that it had. It's the first time I had seen this. Maybe it's been on some of the other stuff. Your slogan about was it bulls and bears?

[Tony]

In a world of bulls and bears, be the wolf.

[David Knight]

That's right, be the wolf. I like that. And you got some merchandise that's coming up as well.

[Tony]

Yeah, I got my new shirts on. I've got to do better. I plug terribly. But I've got new T shirts out. We got hoodies, we got stuff for my radio show and Paratruther, my podcast, all sorts of shirts and even Arterburn Gold. I have my own logo for that. So if you like DM me if you'd like, we can start putting you on the list. We're going to launch that on the store within the month it'll be launched and you can go live and buy all kinds of things.

[David Knight]

I like that paratrooper. Because you are a paratrooper. Well, you are a trooper anyway and we always appreciate having you on. Great talking to you and we'll say have a joyful new year. How about that? We'll make it a little bit different.

[Volodymyr Zelensky]

Hello, it's me, Volodymyr Zelensky. I'm so tired of wearing these same T shirts everywhere for years. You'd think with all the billions I've skimmed off America, I could dress better. And I could. If only David Knight would send me one of his beautiful gray McGuffin hoodies or a new black T shirt with the McGuffin logo in blue. But he told me to get lost. Maybe one of you American suckers can buy me some@the davidnightshow.com and David is giving a 10% discount to listeners from now until 2025. At that price you should be able to buy me several hundred. Those amazing sand colored microphone hoodies are so beautiful. I'd wear something other than green military cosplay to my very various galas and social events. If you want to save on shipping just put it in the next package of bombs and missiles coming from the usa.