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- [00:00]
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Foreign.
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Watch fans and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nuts. Today I am joined by the host, founder and ringleader of the Best of British Watchers event, which is held every year in September in Brighton, Kevin Roberts. Welcome to the studio once more, Kevin.
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Thank you very much, Rob, for that wonderful introduction. And I have to say thank you as well to Alon, David and Scarlet for letting me be on your show and talk about the best of British watches and of course, myself.
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B
I know they would all love to be here, but of course it's the middle of the day on a Sunday and this is not normally when we record. But as we're both busy people running around doing jobs and visiting watch retailers to try and potential new additions to the collection as you've been doing this week, then we thought we'd take this quiet opportunity just before the Wimbledon finals about to kick off to record together because of course, your event, the third edition of your event is coming up pretty fast. Now this episode's going out on August 24th and that's just three short weeks away from the third edition of the Best of British Watches. And you're going to be held this year on Saturday 13th September at 1 to 5pm at the Old Ship Hotel in Brighton. That's where you've been previously as well. So we're going to dive into some more of the details on how you secure a ticket for this event at the end of the show. But before we do that, we're going to do what we've never done before. Even though you have featured on the Real Time show a couple of times in the past, once to promote this very event a couple of years back. And also live from British Watchmakers Day, a scene in which you're very much involved, we're going to talk to you about you. We're going to learn a little bit more about Kevin Roberts, the man behind this micro brand extravaganza. So, Kevin, take us right back to the very beginning. Where did it start? Where were you born? How did you find yourself growing up a watch fan? And what's the state of play as we speak today?
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A
I don't know really where to start. I mean, I'm a very modest person, to be perfectly honest. Grew up on a South London council estate. We had no money. And so I remember my first watch which I really wanted, believe it or not. It was a Tag Heuer. And this was when I was about 16, round about that time I was just getting into Formula one and of course they were big advertisers in the Formula one scene at that time and being happy we didn't have any money, my sisters, I've got two sisters say we lived on the council estate and I begged them to get me a Tag Heuer watch. Now, bearing in mind we had no money, I got them to spend £20 on a fake Tag Heuer watch which actually got me over that itch and I have to say that's where it started. I still have the watch. I still have the watch. It's tiny. It's a 34 mil F1 watch. They don't do it anymore, but it's. I still have it in my collection. I don't wear it because it's. My wrists are far too big for it now. But basically that's where it started. A 20 pound fake TAG Heuer F1 watch.
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B
Well, you pulled it round there at the end because I was about to call foul. Where you start off telling us, oh, we came from no money, we grew up on a council state. First watch at 16 was a tag Heuer. I was like, hang on a second, either you nicked it, which I would believe, which possibly. Yeah, yeah, I was kind of hoping that was where the story was going. I was like, oh, this is pretty raw, this is nice. Yeah, straight from the mean streets of South London, the gentrified air of Brighton. But yeah, no, so you didn't nick it, you forced your similarly hard up sisters to shell out 20 quid on a fake tag Formula One. So not only do you have no money, you had no taste. Wow.
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A
Oh, wow. Oh, that is low. That is low. I have taste. It's developed from there, don't you worry, it certainly has developed.
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B
Yeah, it can't get any worse, can it? Come on, tell us how it developed after this fake tag. So scratched the itch at 16, but obviously, obviously got you excited about watches and got you into the field even more. How did you progress from that? What did you buy next? What was the first non fake watch you bought? And how did you end up with enough cash to become a watch collector yourself?
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A
Got a job, 16 in the construction. And I thought, you know, everybody's got these big watches at the time it was the big Rolexes. And I remember a time, it's a story I was told at the time, back in the day, it was back in the acres, there was lots of bribery and corruption going on in the construction industry. Shock, horror, believe it or not, it did happen. And I remember the bosses went out to Ireland for probably one of the big races over there. And the contractor who took them said in the duty free shop at Heathrow, have whatever you want, take whatever you want and I'll pay for it. And people were taking Rolexes, you know, big Breitling watches, whatever they could find. And so they ended up, I'm sure they eat. The contractor spent as well as flying them out accommodation parties over there. Everybody ended up with a Rolex or a Breitling watch. And yeah, but that was back in the 80s, it doesn't happen now, I can assure you. And from there when they came back, oh, that's a nice piece they had. And obviously I couldn't afford a Rolex, but I was interested in a, any digital Breitling watch. It had to have an alarm and I wanted something dual time because I could fancy myself traveling at some point in my life. And so I ended up with a Airwolf, which I still have to date. And it's a lovely piece, I do love it a lot. And I remember going to various boutiques, Selfridges and even places outside of the uk looking at this watch, think, yeah, one day I'm going to have this watch, definitely going to purchase it. And lo and behold, I did. We went to my wife and I, or his girlfriend at the time, went to Jersey and we popped into a boutique over there who specialized in Breitling watches, put an order in and they said, yeah, wait four, five, six months, we'll let you know when it comes in. And I got the call six, eight months later, which coincided to with my wife's birthday. And so I did a really, really naughty thing as a treat to her, I'll say, I said to her, let's go to, on your birthday we'll go to Jersey and a nice romantic weekend away, five star hotel, champagne, caviar, you know, full works to celebrate your birthday. Knowing full well that at some point on the Saturday I would have to pop into a boutique and spend about 1,800 pounds on the watch for myself whilst on her birthday. And yeah, that's exactly what I did. Didn't go down too well, of course, but yeah, she, she, she finally forgave me. But she did have a good time in, in Jersey, I can assure you. Not just the champagne and canapes and the hotel.
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B
Okay, well, we don't need to pitch it up. Despicable bastards. What are you like? Honestly? Oh, well, I'll tell you what, I've met your wife many times and for our listeners that don't know any wife. What's your wife's name?
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Annalene.
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B
So Annalene, like, frequently appears at events, I would say chaperoning you, making sure you don't do anything too controversial or misbehave too much. She's only successful about 50% of the time. But she's at this year for watchers into watches herself now, isn't she? Because she's got quite a few nice pieces and she knows what she's talking about. She's certainly been around them for long enough, especially since. Since that fateful holiday in Jersey all those years ago. So what does she wear on her.
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She normally wears on her wrist A studio underdog. She's a big fan of Richard and the brand. She does have a Rolex datejust which she does wear and also she does wear. Oh, fierce. I bought her a Fierce Brunswick White draw a couple of years ago. That's hers, but we do share it. And what else is she. That's generally. Those are the three main watches she wears. She's also looking at Denison, which is really surprising considering not. Not because of the brand, But I think she's still developing her taste. I know it takes a while for somebody to definitively define what exactly they want, what they don't like about watches. So I was quite surprised that she says, yeah, she wants a Denison and not just any Denison. It's got to be involved with the diamonds around the bezel. She's not cheap, my wife, I'll assure you.
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B
No. Well, she's obviously become accustomed to, you know, hanging out with a very successful man because as we can glean from this, you did eventually get the cash necessary through your career to become a proper watch collector. And now you've got not just your fake tag and your Breitling Airwolf, but plenty of other pieces to your name. So tell me this, do you ever sell any of the watches you buy? Have you ever sold any or do you keep them all?
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A
I generally keep them all. There has been one or two which I have sold which I just didn't get on with One of them, I'm going to tell you, which is going to be shocking to most people, is Rolex OP41 Silver Dial. I just found it a bit bland, to be perfectly honest.
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B
Yeah, well, it is.
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So I had that for a very short while.
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B
And what was the other one that you got rid of for another one?
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Oh, my Tudor Booker of blue.
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B
Oh, did you? Oh, you had that but you didn't like it so much. Just again, a Bit bland, but no.
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It was just the fact that the original reason was the fact that it tarnished, but for some reason that's when I, I subsequently bought a Tudor Black Bay boutique edition, which is the full bronze with the bronze bracelet. Wow. Okay, so there's no logic to that argument, but I think it was just based a little bit slab sided, to be perfectly honest. The booker of blue.
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B
Yeah, well, common criticism, I guess, and it isn't for everybody on the wrist, but I mean it's, it's good to have had it and to have tried it and to moved on from it, but I mean, you've got the best part of 40 years of collecting behind you now, I guess.
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Oh, Jesus.
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B
Sorry to point it out, mate, but that is the case. So what else have you got in your collection? Tell us some more standout pieces that still make it onto the wrist now and then.
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Recently this week I've been wearing my Amiga Speedmaster 45th anniversary, Apollo 13, 45th anniversary, which is Sedna gold and maroon gray, whatever changes color in the light. It's a, it's a lovely piece, very underrated. Limited edition, I think. 1969 were made. And I love it, I love it. Out of all of the Amigas, I think that is one of the top three they've ever made, top five. But it's really under the radar. Nobody really knows about it, but I wore it to Time and Tide on Thursday when I went to see the Zenith Time and Time collaboration watch and Andrew surprisingly knew everything about it. Andrew from Time and Tide.
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B
So we know who Andrew from. Yeah, we know who Andrew. It's also not that surprising that one of the foremost watch journalists in the world is aware of the watch. You know, I'm just, just saying.
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Yeah, but I was still surprised because nobody knows about it. But apart from proper watch people. And I consider him a proper watch person, a proper geek.
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B
Yeah, I think we probably most of us consider him a proper watch person by this point. Yeah, he's done his bit, I think. So how was the event? Is that the third collab that Zenith and Time and Tide have done together?
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It certainly is. They've launched the White Surfer, which is the full white ceramic case and bracelet. It is lovely skeletonized dial. It's beautiful, absolutely beautiful. It's limited to 100 pieces. It's £17,700, which is definitely a considered purchase.
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B
It is indeed. But I mean, it is a gorgeous piece, isn't it? And it sort of completes their trio, doesn't it? They've got a Nice little sub collection, a capsule collection there for them and the studios in both London and Melbourne which if any of our visitors are yet to visit are definitely worth popping along to see. What else have you seen in the Time and Tide studio since it opened a few months ago?
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A
I've seen the Blancpain they had an event with Blancpain a couple of weeks before that which was quite interesting. They had the 50 fathoms and had some pieces flown over from Switzerland from the museum that was very interesting and of course Dennison been in there to have a chat with them about Denison when it first opened up so that was. Gosh. Is it coming up to a year they've been open now?
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B
It will be by the time this episode goes out. Yeah, it will be. It's close to. I mean Denison launched officially in October 2024 and there wasn't much about the brand kicking around before that date. It kind of exploded onto the scene and then it became talk of the town. Obviously those watches are selling like hotcakes and I know time and tide are shifting a few units a week which is kind of unsurprising again because I mean that is the destination store for watches in London at the moment and that is an incredibly priced product. I believe the current GBP price for a denison stone dial ald is around £522 which is a bargain. Of course your wife as you mentioned earlier has got her sights set on a slightly more rarefied version thereof, the diamond studded version which is similar to the one worn by Emmanuel the designer and actually not in the catalog at all so it's an off catalog model.
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It certainly is. So you know, before I spend a subsequent amount of money I certainly would like to see it again in the metal But I'm trying to persuade her to go just for the standard stone dial versions but she's not having it. She's not having it at all.
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B
I mean I tell you what, it's a special, special piece to get one of those ALDS diamond studded. I know it is quite a step up in cash because I believe the price is between 3 and 4,000 pound. Be sort of getting polluted by the Euros in my brain as my standard currency but it's over 3k. It's a lot of diamonds. It's some nice work. It looks great and given the trajectory the Denison brand is on it might not be a bad time to buy something like that but yeah, we shall see. We shall see what she decides and I'm sure that you'll. You'll give her whichever one she wants to make up for that Jersey holiday all those years ago.
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Yes, exactly. Yeah. God, don't worry. She rubs it in. She certainly reminds me from time to time. But bless her, she's. She's absolutely an amazing person and I don't know what I'll do without her. And, yeah, she deserves everything she gets, so. Yeah.
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B
Does she help in the organization of the Best of British Watchers event?
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A
A little bit. She's going to be on the desk definitely helping out, but yeah, it's basically just. Just myself help from a few other people organizing it, but it's just basic myself and it came about just. Just because we wanted to do something along the coast, you know. As you probably know, I also run Red Bar Southeast. I've always been, you know, passionate about British watches, and I have a, you know, a good collection of fierce watches studio on the dog as well. I've got an isotope on order which I'm waiting for lots of Christopher Wards as well. So I do practice what I preach. I do like British watches. And, you know, British watchmaking is on a boom at this moment in time. There is so much happening in the watch world. Everybody's interested in producing watches. There's brands coming out of the woodwork, new brands coming up, micro brands coming up. Every two, three weeks there's a new one coming up which nobody's ever heard of. And it's just people who are passionate and want to develop something which represents what they think is missing in the watch market, but also represents what they want. So, yeah, it's fantastic. Great time to be. Great time to be British.
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B
It is a golden age of British watchmaking in terms of the diversity and also the worthwhile projects taking place in accessible price brackets, because there was a lot of projects that were very emulative and very mediocre in terms of aesthetics, but that's kind of gone by the wayside now. Every brand that comes out really has a mission to do something. And those missions may not be as apparent from one brand to the next, but they are there. There are stories, there are goals. There are lots of experience being poured into these new designs. And we can touch on the differences between some of the brands that will be presenting at the Best of British Watches in a moment. Of course. I just wanted to ask one more question regarding your collection. Do you possibly have any or aspire to ever own any of, let me say, the big three? I didn't ever really categorize this as the holy triumvirate of British watchmaking. But I would say Roger Smith, Frodsham and Strothers would comfortably fit in that trinity. Do you cover any of these watches, any of these brands, or is it just way off the edge of the map for you?
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In an ideal world, yes, I would love a Roger Smith. However, they are just so expensive. Rightly so. Don't get me wrong, he can charge whatever he wants. And good luck to him for that. They are absolutely beautiful. And the fact that he does. Is it 12 a year? Not much more than that. Yeah, they're just, they are unattainable for my, for me at this moment in time. If I obviously won the lottery, that'll be certainly on my list of purchase. And wait, what's the waiting time? 10 years? 12 years? Something stupid like that.
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B
Yeah, it's quite a while now. I mean, they make around, yeah, 10 to 12 pieces a year. So, yeah, you're not going to get one anytime soon. And, you know, a man of your advanced years probably hasn't got a chance in hell of getting one before you cop it.
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Cheers. So basically, I'll be in the grave before I actually get one.
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B
You never know, mate. Well, I'm only bringing that up because off air, what people don't realize, if you, you threaten to kill me in a very creative fashion, which I guess we should relay to our audience because I made a joke about talking about your past but not touching on the period time that you served the British government as an assassin. And then you rather chillingly threatened to end my life while I was dressed in my velvet tuxedo, which you caught me in once. Is that not correct?
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A
That is correct, yes. And the method, I mean, we're talking about myself and size and, and, and you're a smaller person than I am. So the option was to actually sit on you with my trousers down. That would be the ideal way. And I've got. And you wearing velvet, keep my ass warm, of course. So, you know, yes, it's a win win for me.
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B
It's a win win for you. Yeah, it's, it's a horrifying end to my story. But, you know, like I said, if you're gonna be killed, you might as well be killed by something you love. And yeah, your ass is top of the list, mate. So, yeah, thanks for that. And I'm hoping that our listeners do recover from this. If anyone knows both Kevin and I and seen us standing next to one another, they will be able to imagine the physical comedy of this situation. Because Kevin's probably about a foot taller than me and probably the same broader and yeah, it would be no contest, I think. Anyway, my impending doom aside, should you actually live long enough to receive a Roger Smith, I'd be very glad to see one on your wrist. But what about one of the other brands? I mean, for me, I suppose I'd probably cover a Strothers above, above all others when it comes to British watchmaking. I know they're making a push to produce their in house movements now to do less of what could we call it? Doesn't refurbishment or restoration. Doesn't even, doesn't even do it justice, I guess. But reimagining, I guess of old pieces, old components, bringing them to life in new cases with exquisite dials, their in house stuff is going to be world class and I mean that in the absolute truest sense of the word. So does it appeal to you? Is it a style that you're keen on? Is it a brand that you follow or a brand that you might look at later on in your life?
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A
Oh, gosh, I've. Yeah, I've been following her for, or them for, for some time. And this is a true story. I was coming back from probably Germany year or so ago and suddenly came up that Strothers were going to be at Waterstones in Canterbury, which is not too far for Aliyah. So I basically landed, rushed back to where I live in Folkestone, jumped in a cab, went to Waterstones in Canterbury and got there just before this due to start at 7:00 and unfortunately it got canceled because of lack of awareness, basically that they didn't sell enough tickets. But yeah, and I was absolutely gutted, absolutely gutted. And yeah, I didn't complain but basically it had been canceled for some time, but it was still being advertised for whatever reason. And ever since then, I mean, obviously before then I knew about them but I'm desperate to see them in the metal and it's just not possible. And that is what coming full circle, that is what Best of British is about. It's bringing all of these brands, unfortunately not the likes of Roger Smith, he sticks to the alliance, which is fair enough, but you know, other brands, other smaller brands, other independent well meaning brands in the UK together and show off what they are producing at this moment in time. That's all this is about, is to bring everybody together, people who don't have the opportunity to go and see Fears at the boutique, which is an amazing space in Bristol and then, you know, and most of these other Brands do not have a retail space. The only time yet get to see them is either on their website or at events like this, at the alliance events or Best of British or the local Red Bar event. And people want to see them. They're desperate to see them. But I think I know that London is the, the central hub of watch, of the watch industry. You know, you get to see everything's in London. All the big brand boutiques are there, certain Swiss ones, German ones as well. But one of the things that came out of the event from last year in Brighton was that people don't necessarily want to go into London, they just want to stay in their area. And we have a catchment area of, you know, people from Portsmouth all the way down to Folkestone. So it's a big area but you know, people just don't want to go into London. If there's no need to go into London, why go into London? They would rather stay in the area. So I think going forward, and this is totally off topic of course from your original question about Roger Smith and other British brands, high end British brands. But if I think regional events are possibly a way forward as opposed to just centralizing it in, in London, the capital, because you know, the UK is a big space, it's a big world and there's watch collectors all over the place.
- [24:47]
B
I mean you're absolutely right and there's a lot of good stuff popping up because I spoke to Hamish Robertson of the Watch Collectors Club just a week or so ago and his episode will air in a, in a few weeks time, I believe in advance of the next event he's hosting in Manchester. But he also has one up in Glasgow as well. And you're absolutely right. I mean traveling down to London on the train from Manchester is best part of a couple hundred quid unless you get lucky with early tickets. So it's, it's not easy. And I know Josh, you know Joshua Claire Flag used to do well, he still does the watch it all about events like as associated with his blog 12 and 60 and they would be held in accessible locations if you had a car, like yeah, I remember there was a couple in like a hotel in near Coventry I think it was and it was fine like for me to pop down it was like an hour and a bit drive like nothing and preferable to go into London, but if you don't have a car, also difficult. So yeah, these smaller local events, they are attractive but a big part of it for brands will come down to costs because while it isn't the fans that need to travel, it is the brands that need to get to these more remote locations. Okay, Brighton's not exactly in the middle of nowhere, but it's, you know, you're on a one way, one way direction towards the sea. If you come out of London, head into Brighton, so there's only one direction you can go to get to it. So you've obviously succeeded in creating a nice little cohort of brands. You've got 15 brands minimum showing. We expect another one or two to maybe join the cartel. Events kick off in September. We'll go through each of those brands individually and talk about them. Talk about them at length. By the way. Great segue. Back to your own event. Are you coveting my role as a podcaster? Is this why I'm on your hit list?
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A
No comment.
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B
No. Geez, you're so chilling. In real life, you're so warm and fuzzy and nice, but over the phone, absolute dead eye killer. All right, let's get into it. Let's get into it. All right, so I've got these brands listed in front of me pretty much in AlphaB alphabetical order. We'll start at the top so that there's no preference shown. We're going to talk about Apia A P I A R, a new brand following in the footsteps of Hul Thinrix. We could say the Dutch 3D print maestros by doing something similar, but of course, there's so few brands doing this on a high level. There's plenty of space for more than one to experiment with the technology. And just once again, I keep mentioning this because people often sort of point to Halton Ricks as the beginning of 3D printing in watchmaking. And I certainly do concede that it is the beginning of the refinement of the processes. Maybe, but I still remember Richard Hoptroff doing this stuff 10 years ago. 10 years plus. I don't know if you ever knew Richard or if you have had anything to do with him, but he used to make these absolutely crazy creations that, yeah, they're mad scientists kind of stuff, but they had 3D printed cases as well, way back in the day. So just want to give a little nod to Richard because again, another, another British based brand that was doing things way ahead of time. And here we are now having Apia taking it in a new direction aesthetically. Obviously there is a bit more similarity between it and Hawthorn Ricks than Hop Trough. If you want to check out Hop Trough, you can still find images of the watches online and even reviews of my own from a blog to watch way back in 2015. But talk to me about Apia. When did you get to know the guys behind the brand? What do you think of it and what do you expect them to bring to the fair in September?
- [28:18]
A
APIA are interesting brands. I only come across them quite recently and they are interesting the way that they, they look at watches and they manufacture watches. With regards to 3D printing, I didn't realize that 3D printing isn't for watches. Certainly isn't as new as I thought it was. Thank you for that history lesson about 3D printing, Rob. I think rise it's actually started around about 10 years ago. So I think yeah, going forward, this sort of technology along with various other new materials, various ceramics and also various different golds that people come up with said the gold for Amiga and various other goals that that AP use, it's just a different percentage in, in one of the materials but basically it's effectively the same material choices is. It's an interesting, is an interesting factor going forward in watch industry. I think not so much dials and so you're not dial colors but the whole construction of of cases is I think interesting way or to differentiate different brands and APR is going in a certain direction with their 3D printed. I like it. I think it's fascinating, I really do.
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B
Will you buy one?
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A
No, not at this moment in time. And the reason is it's the same with ceramic, ceramic watches after 10, 15 years. I mean ceramic watch has been around for that sort of time. Nobody seems to know exactly what happens. Do they just shatter? And I know they won't to be perfectly honest, but I know that they have a tendency just to. Just to crack if you drop them incorrectly. So you know, I'll wait for a couple of more years before I purchase an APL watch just purely because I don't know what the longevity of it is. That's all it is.
- [30:22]
B
I know it's a pointed question to have asked and maybe put you on the spot a bit there because and thank you by the way for answering honestly with thought behind the answer because I mean you've got 15 brands displaying here minimum. And you know, it would be totally understandable if you wanted to just blow smoke up the ass of every single brand and say, yes, of course I'd buy this watch, I'd buy the entire collection. But as watch collectors we know we can't buy everything and there are watches that maybe we would buy if means were no objects. And there are watches that we respect that we still wouldn't buy because they don't sit well with us. And there are watches that we wouldn't buy, even those maybe that fall into the previous category of watches we respect for whatever reason because of this uncertainty about longevity. But it's an interesting point, isn't it? Because, you know, as a journalist, I frequently get excited by true novelty. And I had some good conversations about this recently about the nature of hype and whatnot. And I appreciate that people reading watch journalism can become somewhat jaded by what seems at least to them as hype. When something new happens in the industry and everybody's suddenly talking about it and everybody's going crazy about it and that there's a disproportionate amount of coverage about a certain thing, whether it's ceramics, whether it's 3D printing, whether it's form watches, whatever it is, from afar it looks like, okay, there's a reason like that these journalists are biased in some way, and that's, it's very, very understandable why A lot of consumers have watched journalism may by this point be a bit cynical because so many established media platforms have tried to strike that balance between commercial and impartial selling watches or selling positions on their website media positions, while also trying to provide news and coverage and, and genuine opinion that isn't stimulated by silver crossing palms. So I can get why, like people can say, oh, well, this seems a bit suspicious. All these journalists are going crazy about this one new thing. But then we get enthusiastic about something because we, we see so much of the same when we see something different. Like statistically, for us, it's a, it's a huge anomaly and it's a huge privilege to get to write about something that uses words we've never used before in our articles. You know, over the many years that I've been writing about watches, I've noticed I've developed stock phrases, I've developed a few terms that have now seem to have caught on in the industry. Little things that I say that I've always like lent on when I'm writing that have been picked up by other journalists and now seem to be established nomenclature for like describing things like loom. Homogeny is my favorite to describe the comparative glow strength between the dial and the dial markers and the hands, which one of my bugbears when people get it wrong or don't pay any attention to it. But my point is, I noticed a couple of years ago I was starting to sound a bit like a bot. You know, I Was starting to sound a bit like chat GPT because, like, okay, I've got my way of writing. I see a watch. These are the things I talk about. This is my style. This is how I go about it. And okay, fine, writers should have a style. But then I decided I was going to try and step back from writing a little bit, and I was going to try and open up the door for new writers to come in and take my place. Because I was like, do people really need to hear another long winded, philosophically tinted article by Rob Knots about watchmaking? I thought maybe it can do 10 or 12 a year is enough, you know, but you don't need 10 or 12amonth. So when we get something like this, something new that comes along, we're like, yeah, this is incredible. Look at the, look at the work that APO are doing. Look at the research and development that's going into this. Look at the money they're pouring into this so that we will all benefit from this technology in the future. Downside is when the question would you buy one? Is posed to people that respect it. Like you, like me. And the answer remains, no, I wouldn't. How can we expect those brands to continue doing the good work of about which we're so enthusiastic in the hope that that will eventually manifest in something more refined and wearable and long lived for the future? It's an interesting question, right? You know, like as a collector of watches, as a, as a person, especially you who spreads the love of watches through the events that you organize, do you ever question whether you have a responsibility to put your money not where your mouth may be, but where your heart wants to be?
- [34:43]
A
Very, very good question. Obviously, if I had unlimited wealth, I would purchase every single watch for every single brand. But realistically, there are many factors which make you, or make you. Nobody makes you buy a watch, influence you to purchase a watch. It could be the form factor, it could be the size. It could be, you know, the bracelets or the strap. It could be all sorts of the colorway. It could be the lugs, the shape of the lugs. There's all sorts of reasons why, why somebody would purchase or not purchase a watch. And with me, I love, I love the intricacies of what they are doing. It's a fascinating feel, what they're doing. It absolutely intrigues me how they're going to come up with different designs, different dials, different dial colors using 3D printing. It's, it's an interesting fact or factor of, of purchasing a watch now, some people will take a chance and say, yes, we don't mind. We believe in this technology and we believe it will last, you know, to the next generation. That's fine. Unfortunately, I'm, I'm, I'm on the fence. I don't know much about it. I'm sure it will last. Don't tell me as soon as your bike's going to crack or anything like that. But I. More into traditional materials and certainly, certainly traditional colorways. I mean, I'm just looking at the, the one that at the moment, this looks like a spider's web. It's incredible. Absolutely incredible. However, it's just not for me. It's just not for me. I mean, we're going to talk about another brand shortly. Where the watches. I love the watches, I love the design, but they're just too small. That's another reason why I just wouldn't buy it. It's not to say that what they are producing is wrong. It just doesn't suit me and my belief in a watch or philosophy in watch buying, that's all it is.
- [36:47]
B
All right, well, even though we've got this list in alphabetical order, let's jump straight to that brand now so we can have a direct comparison rather than put it on the shelf. Which brand are you talking about?
- [36:54]
A
That Scottish brand, Pauline.
- [36:55]
B
Oh, Paulin. Okay, so brands with which I've been working quite closely recently. Yes, some of the watches are pretty small. In fact, there aren't any big ones in the collection, one would say. But you like the design, you like the style, you like what they're doing. You just can't wear them yourself because of your wrist.
- [37:11]
A
Absolutely, absolutely. There's nothing wrong with the watches at all. The colors are funky. They are really, really cool, really legible. And even the Sapanta model, where the indices are very, very clean, but the lettering or the numerals are interesting to say the least. I like it. I really like it. That's a, that's a fun watch, but unfortunately they are too small.
- [37:36]
B
It's a tough one to read after you've had a few pints. Actually, I might revise that to the opposite. Maybe it's the best watch to have after a few pints because maybe the numbers come into focus when normal numbers would bleed out. I will drink some pints and tell.
- [37:47]
A
You, yes, you will do the experiment for us.
- [37:50]
B
Okay, so Pauline's going to be at the best of British watches as well, and Ordain will not be there. But of course, the. They are sister brands. So if you have any questions about Anodyne, I'm sure the Poland team will be more than happy to either answer or find an answer for you. Let's go back to our alphabetical list. Let's go to Beaucroft next. Now, Bowcroft made a big noise during the British Watchmakers Day with their rather cool retro inspired special edition. What are they going to be showing at the Best of British Watches?
- [38:20]
A
Well, they will be displaying their current collection. I do like Bowcroft a lot. They are based in Cambridge, so that's not too far for them to drop down into Brighton. Would I buy one? Yes, yes. Actually, truth be told, my wife does want a Bowcroft watch, so I probably will be buying one, but it'll probably be for her, I'm sorry to say, but I will probably get an extra strap so I can wear it again. They are, they are clean watches. The design on the bracelet that they look incredible, but of course my wife likes them on the, on the straps they are funky dials and, you know, the numerals are legible, the indices legible. There's nothing not to like about it. And they do wear, do wear very well. So, yeah, yeah, they are great. Brand relatively new that they've been going for five years. Is that about right?
- [39:24]
B
I think sounds about right, yeah.
- [39:27]
A
And this is the second year they've been, they're coming to Best of British Watches. So thank you, Bocroft and the team for continued support.
- [39:36]
B
You know, I always think when I see Bowcraft, like, so for me, they're a little bit of a throwback in the current microbrand scene in that they are much more generic in their styling. There's no doubt about that. You know, they don't do anything wildly new aesthetically, but what they do do very, very well is execute. Like everything about these watches is really well made. You can even see it on the images, which is actually a real bonus because normally we say with brands like this guy, you've got to get it in your hands and then you'll understand it. And sometimes it can be a bit of a cop out because, you know, a lot of people won't be able to get it in their hands. And then even if they do, maybe it's a bit esoteric to say, oh, you'll feel it when you feel it. But these watches, you can see, and it's great photography, by the way, on a website, but you can see there is, there are levels, there is great finishing on the indexes, on the hands, the bracelets themselves, they look like tanks. But as if they've been dolled up for a parade is all. I mean, the finishing is top and okay. It's not like Lange and Zhna hand finishing every movement component. That's not what we're talking about, but we're talking about a good, solid, reliable watch in a digestible form that people are very comfortable with. And it's, you know, well under £1,000. Between five and, what is it, between five and £800. For one of these watches on a bracelet. Great quality product. Now, I do think that the element collection, the 39.5 model, which is really what I'm describing when I'm talking about these pieces, is by far and away the most impressive piece that they do. The Seeker at 37 and the Signature at 40 are not really my cup of tea. But the Element I would buy the special edition they dropped at British Watchmakers Day was really cool. It was called the Penfold. It was a collab with, I believe, an artist going by the name Penfold. Yes, a beautiful watch, a bit of a classic. It strangely reminds me of an old Tissot 2 timer that I've got from the early 90s, which is a weird comparison because it looks nothing like it, but the colors are similar. Yeah, a great little pickup, I think. Sold out. Neither Penfold, of course, but the Element Collection is still freely available. So go along, check out Bowcroft. And yeah, when you have had them in your hands, dear listeners, please let us know what you think, because I think that they are just extremely well made watches. And although they may be in the minority now of like micro brands or up and coming independents, in terms of the ambition of their designs being relatively low, their quality is extremely high. So if that's what you want, if you are a bit more of a conservative buyer and you want to buy local, then try, try Bocroft on your wrist talking to local. It doesn't get much more local than Duckworth Prestex run by the legendary Neil Duckworth. What do you think about the brand? What do you think about Neil and the way he runs it?
- [42:16]
A
Neil's an interesting character. Have a lot of time for him. Yeah. Neil's been in industry for, gosh, a number of years and I think, wasn't he the first person. He was the UK rep for Tag Heuer, if I remember rightly.
- [42:30]
B
I feel like there's about 25 firsts that you could attach to Neil's name and they'd all be true. He just feels like he's just been, he's been around for like, well, forever as far as I'm aware.
- [42:40]
A
A great guy, great character and he's finally produced his own brand. They are very bright. A California dial he did a year or so ago. That was, I think I'm ashamed I missed out on that one, but that was really, really nice. And of course the cushion case, I do love a good cushion case and we talk about another brand who does a cushion case very, very well soon. But yeah, the limited edition California dial is, is beautiful, especially in the yellow. I do like it did do. I think it did a blue one, ice blue color dial earlier last year.
- [43:19]
B
But yeah, yeah there was a blue, a green, a sort of salmony color and also a yellow in that California line. My personal favorite from Duckworth Prestex is the Parker. You know the rectangular model, right?
- [43:34]
A
Yes.
- [43:35]
B
I love the blue dial version on the suede. I think it's an absolutely heavenly wear.
- [43:40]
A
I know what you mean. I have an issue with rectangular watches in general and it's nothing to do with the design, it's just generally my wrist.
- [43:49]
B
Yeah.
- [43:51]
A
Nothing more than that. I would love a rectangular watch and I do have one. Do you have a fast watch one somewhere. But I just can't get away with where away with rectangular watches. Which is a real shame because I do like JLC Reversos.
- [44:08]
B
Yeah, that's a classic and it is nice to be able to mix it up with a different case form, of course. And I, I think I actually have had quite a few rectangular watches over time. I don't have many left. I did move on from a lot of them. I still have my old Hamilton Ardmore, which I think is technically a ladies watch, but I've been wearing it for years and I've always enjoyed it. It's. I mean it's a quartz. It's easy to strap on and forget about it. Looks great with a suit. And I believe it was a model favored by Richard Gere. Although that might just be a urban myth. But if it's good enough for Richard Gear, it's probably good enough for me. Let's talk about, let's skip ahead again on this alphabetical list and talk about a brand that has cushion shaped cases. Because you mentioned them, I'm guessing you're referring to Fears.
- [44:52]
A
I am indeed. I am indeed. Fears are a brand which is very dear to my heart. So I know Nicholas very well. Over the past few years we've gone on holiday together that was really quite fun. And I do have a few Fears watches. I even have a Custom one, which he did for me as well. They are exquisite, elegantly understated as, as per the tagline. They are just. Nicholas knows what he's doing, that's all I can say. The onion crown, the cushion case, the colors he chooses, the mother of pearl, both pink and blue. He's just knocking it. Every single year he does something different and every single year, 100 executed to the best of their ability. He's got a wonderful team down in Bristol. He's producing watches which are absolutely fantastic. And he's at the event at Brighton. He's going to be there. He's going to be fresh from Geneva watch days where they are launching three watches, three new watches at Geneva watch days the week before and the following week he's going to be in Brighton with us and he will have the three new watches available to see in person, which will be the first time people in the UK will have a chance to actually see them in the metal. So that's another reason just to come, to come to the event, to see the new watches before anybody else. But yeah, I just love fears, really do love fears. What can I say, Nicholas? You're a star.
- [46:37]
B
He is. Poor man, doesn't rest. He's constantly traveling around the world and often dragging numerous members of his excellent team with him. And that's a great thing to see. The Fizz family, as it were, has become one of the most visible and I would say most sought after groups to hang out with when it comes to events like Geneva watch days or watches and wonders because they're always, always on form, always got something interesting to say and always up for a party. Are you following the progress of Angus Collins, the, the rower, the endurance athlete, mental health advocate, as he attempts to row all the way around Britain?
- [47:14]
A
I am indeed. I am indeed. I know he had a bit of a mishap with his first launch. He. I know that basically he broke the boat, so the actual delayed in starting. But yeah, I'm following him and I hope he does reach the 250,000 pound mark soon. Very, very soon. I'm a big advocate of what he's doing. Mental health, I say male mental health is surprisingly on the rise. Serious help is needed. There's something you should know which you don't know, nobody really knows about me, is that. And this is an exclusive for you, I am actually a certified Samaritan.
- [48:01]
B
Are you really?
- [48:02]
A
Yeah. So I actually listen to people who are at desperate need of, of help and they phone us literally as a last resort and we Listen to them, listen to their problems, not so much give them advice, but we're just, we're just there to just, just to listen and to understand where they're coming from and the issues that they have. And, you know, so I know exactly what, what he's doing and a strong advocate for it. What he's doing. Samaritans, is just one of the many possibilities that people can contact if you are in dire need of support. So just saying that, well, good on.
- [48:42]
B
You for doing the work and for making yourself available for people in desperate needs of someone to talk to and someone to help them work through their issues. If you want to donate to the great British Odyssey Challenge that Angus is currently undertaking to raise funds, funds for James's Place, which is a charity focused on preventing suicides and providing hope for people who are struggling with their mental health, you can go to the Just Giving page, which you will find@justgiving.com page gbodysee or one word. He's going for £250,000. He's 35% of the way there, but I don't think he's quite at 35% of the way around Britain at the moment. So there's still plenty of time to donate while he is out there on his own, rowing away to raise awareness for an essential charity and service that who knows whether any of us will need in the future. Okay, so that was fears. Nice to touch on that subject as well. Angus was on the parts and he's a remarkable man and has overcome a huge amount in his own life and is doing a great job to help other people that find themselves in silliness situations. Let's move back to the alphabetical list. We're going to talk about Benjamin James, who's getting quite a lot of pop. The Real Time show at the minute. He was on a couple of weeks ago himself, Benjamin Adams, that was the founder of Benjamin James. Okay. Benjamin James watches, known Mostly for their Scar 4 collection, they will be showing at the Best of British Watches in Brighton on September 13 in the afternoon between 1 and 5pm at the Old Ship Hotel in Brighton. For anybody that missed that at the top of the show, tell us more about Benjamin James. Do you own one Eyes rectangular. So no you don't and no you won't. What about your missus? Maybe.
- [50:27]
A
No maybe. Yeah. I think these are not quite her cup of tea. I mean, I do love the colors that he's done. A mother of pearl, which is absolutely exquisite. But yeah, I like. Benjamin James is the second Year in a row he's going to be there. And yeah, full support from him. He's a great guy. And the watches are fantastic. The. I do like the Fume dial ones that he's done previously. They remind me a bit of the raddle ones which were. Which were released a couple of years ago as well. But yeah, they're beautiful. Extremely well priced at just about. Around about the 500 pound mark. And yeah, I do like. I do like the design. They remind me of the Cartier tank, of course, Santos and jlc. So, yeah, yeah, they are lovely. But the bracelet reminds me of Believe it or Not Patek.
- [51:25]
B
Well, I believe that. I mean, there was a running joke and I think we talked about it on the show briefly. About how the cubitus ripped off the Scarrow four, which.
- [51:34]
A
Yes. Or vice versa.
- [51:35]
B
Yeah, no, definitely not vice versa. It was definitely Ben said. Don't you think Ben looks a bit like a rock star? Like he should be a guitarist?
- [51:41]
A
Yes, you're absolutely right. Absolutely 100%. He certainly does.
- [51:45]
B
I always expect him to break out into song or to be wearing an extremely wide brimmed hat indoors. I've never seen him do it, but I think he could pull it off.
- [51:56]
A
What sort of genre do you think?
- [51:58]
B
So like a Quaker. Not a Quaker's hat, like a sort of. I don't know, like a plague doctor's hat. Yeah, like a really low crown sort of bowl, but with a massive white.
- [52:09]
A
Okay. And what type of music do you think?
- [52:13]
B
Like sort of Hosier, Mumford and Sons, Fleet Foxes, that sort of thing.
- [52:17]
A
Really?
- [52:18]
B
Yeah, I reckon you smash it if he gets a song right. He's got the look. All he needs is. All he needs is the songs. He probably plays a guitar anyway. Look at him. Definitely plays a guitar. Definitely. Let's ask him. Let's ask him.
- [52:31]
A
I will do, but I'll see him.
- [52:32]
B
All right. Okay. So, yeah, that's Benjamin Adams of Benjamin James. I love that Mother of Pearl one as well. That is my favorite. It will be produced again, but in limited quantities. The fume does remind me a bit of some of circulars, dive watches, actually. Very strong fume. So I like it. I like the colors chosen, they're bold, they're very arresting. But for me, the Mother of Pearl was the pick of the bunch.
- [52:51]
A
Yeah.
- [52:52]
B
Moving on, let's go to one of the biggest brands showing at the event. That's Christopher Ward. Now, they are also going to be rocking up with a new release, I believe, but we don't know anything about it.
- [53:03]
A
Right, that is correct. As far as I'm aware, they're going to be showing off when you release. I don't know what range. Could be the 12 Cs, could be the C65, who knows? But they are bringing out so much stuff, you know, recently and it's going to be fantastic whatever they do. I mean, GPHG winners maybe again this year, who knows, with one of the new releases from earlier in the year. But yeah, third year in a row. Fantastic to see them again supporting this event. And it'd be good to see Declan and the gang there with all the watches. They'll probably bring the complete range again and yeah, it'll be a chance for people to have sight and to feel the releases and the current collection.
- [53:50]
B
Very good. Well, let's stick with the Christopher vibes and go straight over to Edward Christopher watches who are showing now. Edward Christopher brand I've had in hand. Again, not doing anything wild, wild, wild, but pulling together some less often seen aesthetic quirks and putting them all in one quite affordable package. So we've got like two crowns, one at two, one at four, some deeply engraved dials with a guilloche style pattern, bright colors, internal rotating bezel, very 70s inspired case with let's call it an integrated strap, shall we? Because it is quite important to use the intended straps on these watches because they have a very small notch for the strap attachment. What do you think of Edward Christopher? Is it a watch in your collection? Is it a watch that you would recommend to other people and why are you glad to have them at the event?
- [54:44]
A
Unfortunately I don't have one in my collection, but obviously I do like the design. He's an interesting chap as well. They certainly be going for about two, three years like that. And this is the second time he's going to be at the event. The watches themselves, yeah, he's not redesigning or, you know, coming up with something quirky which will, you know, make a, a standard USP to, you know, gravitate to, to purchasing them. But they are very, very well constructed. The colors he's, he's come up with are, are absolutely beautiful. The, the purple and the pink and the very, very, very light blue, which I do adore. But they're just well constructed. Doesn't take himself too seriously and you know, it's just a good, solid British watch. What's there not to like if you like that aesthetic? Certainly, I mean, sub 1500 pounds I think generally. Yeah, they are nice. They are very, very nice and good.
- [55:45]
B
To see them Again, talking about rock solid build quality, this is perhaps what Elliot Brown is most known for. We'll move on to then. Now this is a brand that just look like it's been around for years and has got its market perfectly figured out. It's an interesting one, I would say, if I'm. I won't say it's critical. It's just as I see it, unremarkable but reliable beyond compare. Now it's a, it's a tough one to stand out from that crowd doing stuff like that, but I mean Elliot Brown has succeeded with a mixture of, yeah, again, excellent execution and really affordable prices. We're talking around 650 quid for most of the range. You've had these in your hands many times. Can you attest to their build quality?
- [56:29]
A
Oh, absolutely. I've nearly, I've nearly purchased one. I nearly bought the, they did a Land Rover1 about two, three years ago. A black dial, black bezel, absolutely gorgeous, rock solid. You could literally crack a nut with it. I'm sure they are extremely tough, extremely wearable, extremely durable. Yeah, that, that is a watch you could, you know, take swimming, climb a mountain, go in a desert, just wouldn't affect it at all. Extremely rugged and yeah, I like it. I really do like them. A big fan of, of Elliot Brown and what they're doing, what they're achieving. They've. This is the second year they've come in now. They did the first year last year they gave it a miss. This year, hopefully they're going to be there and bring a new collection as well or new pieces for people to see.
- [57:21]
B
Going from silhouettes that we've seen many times before to a brand that is known for doing things nobody expected to see honor luxury watch Isotope, run by the incredible Jose Miranda, who has never ceased to entertain his audience, let's put it that way. Ever since Isotope was launched, which struck feels like the best part of a decade ago now, I'm actually not sure when it came out, but it's been around a while. It's even gone through a rebrand that's been around for so long it's titillated watch fans up and down the nation and around the world. With its slightly tongue in cheek, light hearted releases and willingness to experiment with color and icons that many, many brands would veer away from for fear of being seen as too frivolous. What do you think about Isotope and what Jose has done in the lifespan of the brand?
- [58:13]
A
What can I say about Jose? Yeah, well, I do love his watches. I really do. I remember meeting him about. I had this discussion with him last time I saw you, about eight, nine years ago at a Red Bar London event. And we were in a bar in Brussels Square where they had the event and he had his. He had a prototype of one of his watches, an isotope watch, I think. Who is this chat trying to sell me a watch? Well, a brand I've never heard of. Okay, it was quirky and fun at the time, but I'm not going to purchase a watch from this chap eight years later, nine years later, lo and behold, the Isis Oak brand is up and running and selling for, selling to everybody in the world. And everybody loves them and quite rightly so. They are very, very well executed. They are beautifully designed, quirky, fun. And I think that this is what the watch industry needs, is quirky and fun, not to take itself too seriously, as opposed to the Swiss. And fantastic for Jose. And I'm. Keep on what you're doing, mate. Keep on doing what you're doing. It's incredible.
- [59:33]
B
I just want to give a shout out to another mutual friend of ours, Miguel Zebra, the sports journalist who currently, because we're recording two hours, it's two hours away from the Wimbledon final between Alcaraz and Sinner. Right now I am desperate to get rid of Kevin so I can go and watch it and Miguel will be there commentating. Now, if you're not a sports obsessive like me, maybe you wouldn't know Miguel from that part of his life. But you may have heard his name from his collaboration that he did with rich Richard Bentz from Studio Underdog for Wimbledon, the Strawberries and Cream series one that was released and snapped up by hundreds of buyers in its brief availability window. And he's also collaborated with Jose on this isotope chronograph, compact moonshot Terra Maris model. And he's just got such a good, great sensitivity for color and the application thereof. He's just got an eye for it, which would, wouldn't surprise me with a man that's traveled the world watching top level sport for the majority of his career, seeing all the different jerseys and outfits that athletes wear around the world. He sees some creative colors coming from some of the greatest minds charged with those tasks, such as Nike, Puma, Adidas, you know, you name it, he knows he knows how to use color in a way that many people don't. And what he's created with this particular edition of this chronograph is something quite special. So check that out. That's a chronograph Moonshot Terra Maris co designs with Miguel Sieberer, famed sports journalist, ardent tennis fan, who will definitely be sitting at center court as we record right now anticipating a wonderful final between the top two tennis players in the world. And I'm very excited. Can you tell in my voice? I'm very excited. I'm very happy for him. I'm extremely jealous, teethingly jealous. If I could have one man's job, job in the industry, given the fact that Miguel straddles both this and the sporting world, it would be his because he does a fantastic job. So there's no chance of me taking his. But if ever an opening arises, I will be there, microphone in hand, strawberries and cream. Any other could you imagine?
- [61:36]
A
Good for you. Don't forget Jose's also done a collab with one of the great watch writers of the last 10 years, Watch magazine as well. The Rake revolution, Waco, of course. He's done the isotope Mercury, which was a mirrored, completely mirrored watch with mirrored hands. Absolutely incredible.
- [61:57]
B
You know, maybe there's no coincidence that the. The model that Miguel designed is completely matte and totally like reflection free. So he can wear it in like the commentary box and not blind Alcaraz or Sinner with a flick of his wrist. Whereas Way's version of the Mercury is. It's a flight hazard. I mean, for goodness, it's the most mirrored watch possibly in history. I can think maybe the only one that holds a torch to it. And please add to this conversation if you can think of another, but there was a Bulgari Octo Finissimo Limit Edition.
- [62:27]
A
You're right.
- [62:28]
B
Yeah. Also similar concept, but I think the Mercury takes the biscuit because if I remember correctly, that Bulgari had like a dot pattern print on either the dial or the crystal, which did something in the way of dulling the glare, but not much. Crazy watches, crazy creativity. Jose Legends. Isotope has established itself firmly as a British brand with Portuguese roots unlike any other. Moving on. We're almost there now. Only five to go. Pinion been around for a long while. Piers Berry at the head of the company. Still, what do you think about this brand? Is it one that calls itself a member of your collection?
- [63:06]
A
It nearly has. It nearly has and I'm still considering it. Definitely tears did a. He was invited to do a Watchful with Mercedes Benz UK limited run of watches specifically for members of the group and I have not bought one, but I'm possibly still thinking about it. The only issue is it's just a little bit too small. That's the only issue. But great designs, great watches that he's produced and let's hope he does much more of more collaborations and also expand his present collection as well.
- [63:50]
B
Before I was a watch journalist, when I was a watchmaker working for Omega and latterly Bremont, I would walk around these events with my eyes wide open. Unbelievable. I found it that I was able to talk to the founders of these brands directly. And I remember getting a business card from Piersbury, goodness knows how many years ago, probably right back when. Right back when Pinion started, I suppose. And I still have it. In fact, it's right next to me. It's in my business card folder on the shelf to my left. I still have it. I kept it because it was debossed. And I think it was the first time I'd seen a debossed business card. And I was like, wow, one day I hope I'm rich enough to have deboss business cards.
- [64:30]
A
And are you?
- [64:31]
B
Yeah.
- [64:32]
A
Oh, no.
- [64:34]
B
I suppose I could probably spring for it if I really want to. Maybe I'll think about it for next year. Need a refresh. Talking to someone that has even better business cards. So probably the best business cards in the industry. In fact, if he ever decided to stop designing watches that thrill us all, then he could definitely go into business card consultancy. Probably be able to work on American Psycho if they ever do a remake. It's Giles Ellis, of course. Course of Scofford.
- [64:56]
A
How did I know you're gonna say oh?
- [64:59]
B
Because the description's obvious. The greatest. Greatest designer that. The greatest graphic designer should we say that watchmaking has had. And it's possibly his history. And I mean that wholeheartedly. Like, you can say what you want about Genta's cases and Bertiron's Mirage and all these excellent luminaries in the field like Giro and Get and whatnot. But when it comes to graphics, when it comes to color, when it comes to decorations, decoration, when it comes to that balance of branding and product, then give me a better character than Giles Ellis. Just come on, throw out a name. I don't think you're gonna have one.
- [65:31]
A
No, I can't. No, I can't.
- [65:33]
B
There you go. So what's to say about Giles? We've said a lot about Giles. Giles has been on the Real Time show, maybe more than anybody at this point, and there's good reason for it. He's an endlessly interesting man, creating endlessly interesting watches. If you don't know anything about schofield, go to schofieldwatchcompany.co.uk check out and get down to the best of British watches and find out for yourself because I don't think our words are going to do it justice. Let's just leave it there, move on to shure watches. This is S H E R watches. Now these are kids watches. Definitely not for your wrist, Kevin. Maybe not even for mine. But what's the story here? Never heard of them.
- [66:07]
A
Never heard of them. Well, they've literally just sprung up to be perfectly honest. I mean I've heard of them about six, eight months ago and they are what I think watch industry should be about. Bringing in kids nowadays to tell the time effectively. I mean my wife is an ex teacher and she comes home with horror stories about children not be able to tell the time on a, on a 12 hour clock and, and she works in a secondary school. So you know, it's shocking that, you know, kids nowadays do not know how to tell the time on a proper watch. They have to revert to their, to their phone or some sort of digital time they have on their wrist. It's just not right. It's just not right. And I think sure, watches are trying to address that problem. And obviously if you get them young enough, they'll get into analog watches. They'll purchase, you know, another analog watch when they graduate and then when they get married and then when they have kids. And so it's just the whole process of hopefully, you know, people buying watches, analog watches in the future, get them young and develop them and you know, lo and behold, they'll be able to get a Patek Philippe.
- [67:28]
B
Maybe.
- [67:28]
A
Maybe.
- [67:29]
B
Exactly.
- [67:31]
A
What's their tagline?
- [67:32]
B
Well, you never really own a Patek Philippe. You just look after it for the next generation.
- [67:37]
A
Yeah, that's the one. That's what sure was should use as well as their tagline.
- [67:42]
B
Well, yeah, I mean the thing is like, yeah, it's a stinging indictment of the state of education. Children can't read an analog clock anymore. I wonder whether I'm just too stuck in my ways when it comes to this. Do we need analog clocks? Am I being a fuddy duddy? I know that they are naturally informed by things like sundials because of the passage of the sun and this like the idea that we see like the rotational aspect of time is something that feels organically sensible to us because of the rotation of the earth and the orbit and whatnot. But do we need it? I mean, I think we do, but I think I'm totally open to the possibility that I might Just be wrong and I might just be stuck in my little echo chamber where we're all.
- [68:29]
A
Like, oh, you've got to be able.
- [68:30]
B
To read the time an analog watch. I mean, your, your Breitling Airwolf would do the job just fine.
- [68:34]
A
Would it?
- [68:34]
B
For one of these kids that can't tell the time on a normal clock?
- [68:38]
A
Yes. But don't forget it came with a slide rule so you could actually use it to fly airplanes and do all sorts of weird and wonderful things. So, yeah, that's one thing you can do with an analog watch is fly an airplane.
- [68:55]
B
Just a question.
- [68:56]
A
Go on.
- [68:56]
B
Right, yeah. It's pertaining to the flying of an airplane. As you know, I'm a pilot. Like, it's a running joke in the industry. I'm not actually a pilot, so don't hire me for anything, but it's just a thing we say. Okay.
- [69:07]
A
I love that picture of you in the cockpit. Is it a 747?
- [69:11]
B
Yeah, it is, yeah. Yeah. Flies really nice. In case you're wondering, the gear stick's a bit sticky, but, you know, it was, that was a great experience. I'm not actually a pilot, but I'm pretty sure that you need more qualifications than an analog watch to fly a plane.
- [69:31]
A
I think you could be right about that. Yeah, I think you could be right. But I think, yeah, we did research.
- [69:38]
B
Okay, if any of our listeners know answers on a postcard, please. All right, next up. Actually, hang on, I'm not done with shure yet, so if you Google sure watch, it's spelled S H E R. Okay, that's really important. You're not going to find the website very easily. The SEO's trash. Okay? It's new brands. You'll find a review of it on Time and Tide. Right. That's the first thing it'll pop up. So Time and Tide is doing sure a solid here by giving them some visibility. The price of this watch is, I believe, 95 quid or €110 where I am. It's got a fully luminous dial. The hour segments are like clearly marked out, which I'm not actually sure is very helpful for telling the time. But you know, they've obviously done their or you'd hope they've done their research and they've devised this, this display as something that will help kids tell the time. I guess that they are marking out every individual minute so children can just easily read off the dial. It's a 32 millimeter diameter stainless steel case. Very, very, very refreshingly. This watch is water resistant to 100 meters at only 9 millimeters thick with a 16 millimeter lug width. So plenty of strap options, really easy for anyone to wear. Could be worn by a small wristed man or woman as well, I suppose. But it's a good effort on their part to really go for that water resistance of 100 meters because obviously a kid's gonna need a bit of robustness. But it also puts other brands selling watches for Multiple thousands with 30 or 50 meters water resistance in their place. It's got a Japanese quartz Myota 2035 movement, 2 year battery life, blah, blah, blah. Okay, is it good? Well, it is a proper watch, I would say, and that's a decent thing for £100. If it does actually help kids learn how to tell the time, I can't say anything against it whatsoever. I think it's great. Do you think that they will find favor with a young audience or the audience of. So we say they must be pitching to like established watch collectors hoping to sell them to people that buy luxury watches with kids, would you reckon?
- [71:39]
A
Oh, 100%. Yeah, I think so. I mean, obviously the, the comparison is the flic flac and swatch watches basically, which are much more colorful and they target, you know, kids, you know, want ponies and unicorns on the dial. This is not, this is not for them. This is for, as you say, watch collectors who want their son or daughter to have a proper watch with robustness. They can, you know, they can damage it, definitely. But it's in a stainless steel case. It's compared to a plastic watch. Would you just get thrown away?
- [72:18]
B
It's a really interesting idea. And interesting is the word I'm going to stick with on this one because I think that it's the kind of thing that, you know, if I were having a couple of pints with a friend and we say, what is there a lack of in the luxury watch industry? I might sort of be tempted to say there aren't enough cool options for kids. Then I think when I sober it up, I might think, well, there's probably a good reason for that. Like kids don't have much money. And so the interesting thing about creating a product for a demographic that can't buy it themselves is you're not pitching it to that demographic. So this is clearly a watch that's supposed to be worn by children, that's pitched to an adult, you know, whereas a flic flac is a watch supposed to be worn by a child, that's pitched at a child and they're affordable enough for an adult to make a much more spontaneous purchase. They're half the price, although they are creeping up, to be fair. They're half the price of this show watch. And the flip flat can be chucked in the wash, which I think is a great aspect of those watches. Now that's not the only child's watch company we've seen. Didn't. Didn't Cara Bennett start one? Or is my mind playing tricks on me?
- [73:14]
A
Oh, right, yes, you're right. I haven't seen anything on it. But you're right, she has started one.
- [73:20]
B
I'm sure she did. So she had like a nice, quite a, quite a cool attempt at designing a brand. Was it Pachi? Yes, was Pachi. Bright colors? So this is somewhere between a shirt and a flic flag.
- [73:34]
A
What?
- [73:34]
B
So Cara, for people that don't know, is a very well known writer from Hodinkee. She's a watch expert herself and she created Pachi, which is. I couldn't describe it better than I did the first time around. It is basically slap bang in the middle of the shirt and the flick flight concepts. It's a serious watch, but it's presented in very bright colors. A lot of fun. They were retailing at the time for 65 bucks and they may not be in active business anymore, which may be. Again, yeah, I've went on the website and it's got a sort of holding page on the homepage saying be back later. So there's nothing going on at the moment. Which, you know, if Cara Bennett, who is someone whose articles I read for years when she was very prolific at her dinky, can't do it, I worry for sure. Don't, maybe don't tell him immediately. Give him, you know, they don't need to know my pessimism but you know, it's a tough market is all I'm saying. Because you can't talk to the kid directly. Maybe that's that. Maybe that's what sure is doing that part she didn't do. Maybe. Sure is trying to tap into the male watch collector's brain because it is quite a masculine styled watch, to be fair, and get them to buy one for their kid. Maybe that's what it is. I don't know. Good luck to them. Let me know what the response is like to the people that get to see them in real life. Let me know if they sell any on site because we believe that some of these brands will have some pieces available for purchase. But you didn't hear it from us because it's not official. Next up, studio Underdog. Now there's a brand that would have a chance of releasing the kids watch and find some favor with their rabid audience. What do you think about that?
- [75:13]
A
Don't give Richard any ideas.
- [75:16]
B
Richard's got enough ideas of his own. It doesn't need me.
- [75:20]
A
But yeah, Richard will be there. The rumor is that they will have something released round about that time. So it'll be perfect time. Opportunity to. To see what's been festering in his brain and his team's brain and what comes out at the best of British watches. So, yeah, what could we say about Richard? Everyone knows about Richard and cheering the dog. I think it's time to move on.
- [75:44]
B
Yep. All we can say is he's beloved industry wide, done a great job, brought a lot of joy to a lot of people's lives. Great bloke and long, mate. Continue. Last one on the list, mate. Zero West. It's a good one. It is wild.
- [75:58]
A
It's a wild one. Andrew. Andrew. Andrew. I love what they're doing. They're based towards Southampton on the. On a nice idyllic part of the uk, just by a river which hopefully doesn't flood too often. And their boutique is absolutely spectacular. They've got a aeroplane engine as a table inside. Have you been to it by any chance?
- [76:27]
B
No, you know, I've not, I've not been to it but I've seen the images of it so often. I feel like I have. I used to live. Not too far. I mean I lived in Southampton when I worked for Swatch Group. I used to run around where they, where they're based when I was marathon training. Used to get quite a bit further away from Southampton than I do now. And I've seen so many pictures of this boutique and know that kind of environment so well. I feel like I've been there a million times, but I just. I definitely haven't. I'm 100% sure I haven't been. Should I go?
- [76:56]
A
You should definitely go. We've been for a treat. Not just about the boutique itself and how they've designed it and how it looks, but of course the watches, which is the most important aspect. Their, their theme is to do with airplanes and the war or airplanes especially Spitfire mosquitoes and anything to the Dam Buster and the airplanes associated with World War II and earlier and possibly even later watch this space. But yeah, they, that's their ethos effectively is that they prefer watches which are produced currently but have a. They look back onto the war, the Second World War and incorporate bits of aeroplane into the watches as well. They are extremely well made. I, I do like them. I do like exactly what they're. What they're doing. And this is the third year in a row they're going to be there again. They are just some cracking pieces but it's not in my collection just yet.
- [78:11]
B
So I've got a favorite in the current lineup. It's the M1 Mosquito 41 millimeter. I like the colorway of the dial. It's sort of John Player special, black and gold with some red highlights. It's. It doesn't have the coating on the, on the detachable lugs because I like sort of mono colored cases I think. And this one looks like one of the more wearable. They did have a really old model that is discontinued and it's not in there like sold out list. So I can't find a reference of it. I'm sure they had a model that had a slightly different case that I much is much missed by me that I want to see come back. I think I've mentioned it to Andrew in the past but I do like this 41 mil mosquito. I think that's a super cool watch. Which one would you put in your collection? If you could pick one? If you could have anyone for free right now, which one would you choose?
- [78:58]
A
Oh God. See now it'll probably be the Rasc which is sold out. I love that two tone colorway, the white hands.
- [79:06]
B
Oh, you like the stripy dial?
- [79:08]
A
Yeah, I do like the stripy dial.
- [79:10]
B
You know that reminds me of.
- [79:12]
A
Go on.
- [79:13]
B
There was a watch that I was loaned in 2015 by a German brand called Alisi. There's a chronograph. It was, it was to commemorate a God. It was either a German or Austrian racing driver. I think his name was Jochen Mass.
- [79:27]
A
Yep.
- [79:27]
B
Is that a driver?
- [79:28]
A
It is a driver. Definitely a 401 driver.
- [79:31]
B
Well, in that case I must have remembered it from 10 years ago. There was a watch by Elise, it was a chronograph and they sent it through. I was writing for a blog to watch at the time and I reviewed it and I think at first they wanted me to keep it. So I ended up wearing it for about six months or a year or something. I put it on a yellow dog watch, straps, rubber zulu. And it was my favorite watch at the time because I didn't have any other watches because I was still a poor watchmaker back then. And then I think I'm not sure whether it was because like some of the macro shots we took of the case were so macro, like it showed off sort of the lines of the finish, of the polished finish on the crown. So it looked like striated in real life. It didn't look scratched at all, it was just the macro was too strong and there was that. I remember there being like quite a lot of people like giving it in the comments and then I think the brand was a bit pissed off by the comments and asked for the watch back. I honestly thought like it was like in the first year of my blog to watch career and I thought, ah, I've got a free watch at last. Because, you know, we didn't get to keep watches very often at all sometimes brands insisted on it. But it was, it was one that I thought, oh, this, this is a special watch for me and I wore it for ages. And then, yeah, I sent it back when he asked for it back. I wasn't going to quibble about it obviously, but strange memory because it had the blue dial with the two white racing stripes exactly like that, which is very interesting. It is a vibe. I didn't like it when I first got it on my wrist but I grew to love it over time so I'd imagine I'd feel the same about the rafc.
- [81:08]
A
Yeah, it's cool but yeah, it's something I don't have. I don't have anything stripes like that but it certainly stands out. But yeah, that's, that's a cool piece. Yeah. A lot of time for Zero west and Andrew and, and his partner and what they're doing down there on the south coast is, is incredible. It really, really is. And there's lots coming from, from them in the future.
- [81:30]
B
Yeah, they're cool guys and they've got a great approach and they're certainly creative. There's nothing that you'll find off the shelf in these watches. So go have a look at them if you're in the area. If not, head down to Brighton on 13 September to the old Ship Hotel, the repeat venue for the third year running right from Saturday in the afternoon from one till five, tickets are available on Eventbrite. They cost £7.50, excluding Eventbrite Bright fees, but included in that ticket price, you'll get not only a drink but yet another tote bag for your collection. So did I do that well enough? Is that all the details people need to know?
- [82:06]
A
Yeah, that's basically it, yeah. Look, looking forward to seeing as many people as there as possible and yeah, come bring the family, send them to the beach. Hopefully the sun's out. And I'm assuming that 90% of the people who attend will be male. That's why I said send the family down to the beach. But they're obviously more than welcome to attend. We do have families that do turn up. Wives, girlfriends, kids, you know.
- [82:31]
B
I told you about being sexist offline, didn't I?
- [82:34]
A
You did, yes. That's why I did say 90%. Please don't bring the family. Free spring the family.
- [82:41]
B
So here's a question for you. If, if any, any male or female or otherwise, watch collectors want to bring their families along, do the kids have to buy tickets as well or is there an age cut off where, like, you know, a baby doesn't need a ticket, I guess. What about a three year old?
- [82:55]
A
A baby doesn't need to take a three year old.
- [82:57]
B
No, because like, because sure are there. The kids need a ticket because they might be there on their own.
- [83:02]
A
Oh, they wouldn't be allowed out on their own, surely.
- [83:05]
B
Imagine you get like a five year old kid rocking up in like a full suit and he's like, yeah, I'm making some sure watches, like, have you got a ticket? He said, I'm five and like, yeah, but you.
- [83:13]
A
Oh, you need a ticket.
- [83:14]
B
I need to think about these things.
- [83:16]
A
Yeah. Kids under 16 do not need a ticket.
- [83:21]
B
You've just made that up on the fly, aren't you?
- [83:23]
A
I have, yeah. I might change it to under 10.
- [83:28]
B
Kids under 16 go free, but they don't get a tote.
- [83:31]
A
They don't get a tote and they don't get a drink either.
- [83:35]
B
All right, okay, well, that's a compromise. We can go for that. So kids under 16 go free. No excuse to not bring the family, especially not with show watches there. Bring the kids down, get them to try the watches on, see what they think. Give some valuable feedback to another new British brand trying to make its name in a very crowded but very exciting marketplace. Kevin, thank you for joining me. It's been an absolute terrible time for me. I've hated every minute of it. Shocking as usual. See you in the future somewhere. Don't sit on me. I won't wear the velvet around you again, I promise. All right.
- [84:04]
A
No, please do. I love it. You looked absolutely smashing when I saw you in that jacket. Honestly, mate, you looked cracking. Women beware. That's all I can say when he wears that jacket.
- [84:16]
B
Cracking's the word if your threat comes to pass, that's for sure.
- [84:19]
A
Right.
- [84:20]
B
If anybody in the realtime Show Network has any questions for this reprobate, please do get in touch with me. You can do so via the Realtime Show Network, which you can join by sending us a message via the usual channels, either our Instagram account herealtime show, either via our personal emails. That's either Rob Alon or DavidHereAltime show via the contact form on the website www.therealtime.show. and if you want to get in touch with Scarlett directly, you can find find her on instagram @scarlindeshire. That's S C A R L I n T H E S H I R E. We will be back soon with more top quality watch content and maybe Kevin and the industry innovators. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.
- [85:09]
A
Sam.