Geneva Watch Days 2025 — Benoit De Clerck, Zenith

Summary

---

Podcast Episode Summary

Geneva Watch Days 2025 — Benoit De Clerck, CEO of Zenith

The Real Time Show
Host: Rob Nudds & Alon Ben Joseph
Guest: Benoit De Clerck (CEO, Zenith)
Recorded: September 5, 2025

---

Main Theme

The episode centers on Zenith’s experience and approach at Geneva Watch Days 2025, focusing especially on their innovative new collaboration with USM, the iconic Swiss furniture brand. The conversation explores the rationale behind cross-industry partnerships, the brand’s evolving product and movement philosophy, and Zenith’s positioning as a contemporary and heritage-rich watchmaker.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Geneva Watch Days Experience

• Benoit expresses enthusiasm about the unique environment at Geneva Watch Days, praising its atmosphere and diverse interactions with press and collectors.
  • “We get to meet a lot of people and we get to… meet with the press as well, in a very chill environment…” – Benoit (00:27)
• This is Zenith’s first official Geneva Watch Days attendance, and the team is “happily surprised” by the positive response.

2. Zenith x USM Collaboration: “Defy Heritage Chronograph” Series

• Origins of the Partnership:
  • Collaboration with USM (Swiss modular furniture brand founded nearly simultaneously with Zenith) was “a natural discussion, a very natural approach” due to shared Swiss heritage and manufacturing philosophy. (01:25–05:00)
  • Four signature USM colors (Green, Blue, Yellow, Orange) are featured.
• Product Details:
  • First-ever Defy with an integrated El Primero 400 chronograph.
  • Extremely limited: 60 pieces per color – “because that watch, that Defy watch was created in the 60s.” (01:25)
  • Each watch is accompanied by a bespoke USM cube storage box/cabinet, designed to hold up to 12 watches.
• Immediate Reception:
  • “Within almost 24 hours… we sold around 25… Between 25 and 30% of the production.” – Benoit (07:10)
  • Bundling: Some collectors are buying all four colors as sets, but the overall production remains strictly 60 per color.

Notable Quotes:

• “Who would have ever thought of matching a watch to a bedside table? It's brilliant.” – Rob (05:14)
• “With each watch that we sell, it comes with the USM specially made box or cupboard… it's very, very cool.” – Benoit (04:15)

3. Collaboration Philosophy & Future Partnerships

• Benoit underscores that partnerships must be meaningful and mutually respectful, explicitly rejecting collaborations where one brand dominates.
  • “The philosophy of partnership has to come equally at 50, 50. And this is what we have with USM.” (05:52)
• Hints at possible future cross-industry tie-ins, without revealing specifics.
• Host/speculator suggestions: Collaborating with a garment maker or another Swiss design/furniture brand (e.g., Vitra).
  • “What I would love to see also is a garment maker, cloth maker, for example… not so much a hypebeast fashion collab, but really the metier, the art of cloth making, for example.” – Ben Joseph (08:51)

4. Zenith’s Dual Identity: Heritage and Innovation

• Discussion of Zenith’s strengths:
  • Ability to balance heritage (vintage) with contemporary, innovative watchmaking.
  • Vertical integration: Zenith is “truly a manufacture.”
• Brand Positioning:
  • Hosts mention Zenith’s value as an entry into high horology: “Zenith becomes like the go-to brand for many people.” – Rob (11:56)
• Fan Perspective:
  • “I still think it's undervalued in price. You get a lot of bang for your buck.” – Ben Joseph (11:19)
  • “Zenith has literally reached their own star.” – Ben Joseph (09:47)

5. Collection Highlights and CEO’s Favorites

• Benoit’s personal picks:
  • Triple Calendar: “It's a perfect watch… which one I like, I like the movement of this. I really like the movement of that watch.” (12:53)
  • Pilot Chrono, Ceramic Case: “First day… I picked up my first watch… the pilot chrono, because I like the ceramic one.” (14:10)
• Unique aspects:
  • Zenith is the only watch brand allowed to use the name “Pilot”—a registered trademark. (15:02)
• Both hosts and guest lavish praise on the new triple calendar’s value proposition.
  • “It could be a one-watch collection because it is sporty, it is elegant, it is low profile, it's very comfortable to wear.” – Rob (15:37)

6. Movement Evolution & Community Reactions

• Addressing controversy: Benoit comments on the community’s reaction to Zenith moving three-hand watches to the El Primero 3600 platform and questions around retiring the Elite calibre.
  • “Movements evolve… a perpetual seek of improvement of the movement… I wouldn't say that [the Elite] is retired… it's still part of a pillar of our movement collection.” (17:37)
• Public and collector sentiment is acknowledged—watch enthusiasts pay close attention to movement selection and product positioning.
• Host draws comparison with other industry moves (e.g., Breitling Navitimer three-hander).
  • “The three hand El Primero still beats at 36,000. And that makes an El Primero an El Primero.” – Ben Joseph (19:17)
• Benoit’s approach: Continue improving, stay tuned for future developments.

---

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “The Geneva watch day is going great… very interesting. We get to meet a lot of people and… the press as well, in a very chill environment.”
  — Benoit de Klerk (00:27)
• “We decided for 60, because, you know, that Defy watch was created in the 60s.”
  — Benoit de Klerk (01:25)
• “Who have ever thought of matching a watch to a bedside table? It's brilliant.”
  — Rob (05:14)
• “The philosophy of partnership has to come equally at 50, 50. And this is what we have with USM.”
  — Benoit de Klerk (05:52)
• “Zenith has literally reached their own star.”
  — Ben Joseph (09:47)
• “It's a perfect watch… not too big, it's not too small. It has the day, the moon phase, the months… I really like the movement of that watch.”
  — Benoit de Klerk (12:53)
• “Zenith is a very, very much an entry point into high end luxury watches.”
  — Benoit de Klerk (12:38)
• “Zenith is the only watch brand that's allowed to use that [Pilot] name. It's trademark.”
  — Ben Joseph (15:02)
• “Movements evolve… we are in a perpetual seek of improvement of the movement.”
  — Benoit de Klerk (17:37)
• “Stay tuned.” (re: future directions)
  — Benoit de Klerk (20:24)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Geneva Watch Days Experience: 00:06–01:09
• USM Collaboration Explanation: 01:25–05:00
• Marketing and Cross-Industry Impact: 05:00–07:03
• Sales Update on Launch: 07:10–07:44
• Future Collaboration Philosophy: 05:47–08:20
• Zenith’s Value & Heritage Conversation: 08:25–12:38
• Collection Highlights & CEO Favorites: 12:38–15:37
• Movement Platform & Community Reactions: 16:58–20:24

---

Closing Thoughts

The conversation is energetic and full of mutual admiration between hosts and guest. There is a strong focus on Zenith’s deliberate approach to product and partnership, grounded in heritage yet always pushing innovation—reflecting its dual legacy as manufacture and modern luxury brand.

Memorable Ending:

• “Thank you for what you do. What you do is important as well for the industry, so… looking forward to hearing from you and seeing you soon. Keep it up. Keep up the good job.”
  — Benoit de Klerk (20:57)

---

For listeners and Zenith enthusiasts alike, the episode offers insider details, fresh perspectives on collaborative watchmaking, and honest reflections on where the brand is heading next.

Transcript

[Ben Joseph]

Foreign.

[Rob]

Hello, watch fans and welcome back to Geneva watch days 2025. From the glass igloo outside the beautiful pavilion, which is teaming with people coming in for tonight's party, we are joined by Benoit de Klerk, the CEO of Zenith Watches, one of the biggest brands here, certainly one of the most famous. And we are excited to find out how the fair's been going so far for you, Benoit.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Hey, Rob. Hi. Thank you for having me. First of all, I love the igloo style. This is amazing. It's great, especially with a great sound like that. The, the Geneva watch day is going great. You know, for us it's the first edition and as we say in French, you know, happily surprised, you know, and positively surprised, because it's, it's very interesting. We get to meet a lot of people and we get to know, to meet with the press as well, in a very chill environment, you know, a very nice environment and people are all very happy and chill and all that. Which, which is great. Which is great. Of course, the, the weather helps and the environment helps. So, so, so far so good.

[Ben Joseph]

And you've welcomed us with vivid colors. I was blown away. Defy heritage with a chronograph. I'm like, wow. Caliber 400 vivid colors. Tell us about that partnership, how it came about.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Well, that's a fantastic. You know, it's a collaboration with usm. You know, usm it, you know that the furniture. One of the most well known furniture company in the world, funny enough, or interesting enough, it's made in Switzerland in Mucin Gen, and they were created about the same year as in it. So they're almost 160 years as well. And there's a lot of similarity between the two. They use the same tools in certain aspects, you know, in terms of. But of course, that's a different scale. Their scale is much bigger. Ours is very minuscule and there's a lot of similarities when it comes on the production level. And then we came up with the idea because there's a lot of heritage, a lot of similarity. We approached them, they took their time as well. Then we revived the project and we explained to them what the idea was and how we want to bring it about and all that. And they love the project. You know, this is usm. They like Zenit and you know, we have USM in our offices. So for us it was a natural, a natural discussion, a very natural approach and we was very productive and, you know, hit it off. One meeting, second meeting, third meeting, and then that's the way that's how we took it. That's how we took it to birth. And so it's four colors. You know, these are what we call USM colors. The most famous ones, we have the green, which is their color, the blue, the yellow and the orange. And we decided to produce this watch in defy. In a defy, the heritage one, you know, the Defy revival and in those four colors. But the particularity of that thing is that we included a chronograph. So it's the first time we do a defy with the chronograph, with the El Primero 400. And this is something very new. And the first time we do it and we said we will do it for this collaboration at USM and we decided to do only and produce only 60 watches per color. Obviously, you know, when we chatted with the market and when with some experts and all that, oh, you can do 500, you can do 600 per color and all that. And we all like that. But then with time, we decided with the team to reduce the quantity and we decided for 60, because, you know, that watch, that defy watch was created in the 60s. And we said, you know what we're going to do 60 watch in green, in blue, in orange and in yellow. And so this is where the collaboration come about. And the birth of that collaboration that we launched yesterday is 60 watches of each with USM and 100% collaboration. And the beauty of that is that with each, each watch that we sell, it comes with the new sm specially made box or cupboard or mini cupboard or bedside table. It's very cool. It's very, very cool. And it's made by usm, of course, and it's produced by usm. So each watch comes with the, with that, that table, bedside table or table or, or box, which we incorporated three drawers in that, in that box in order to be able to, to be that furniture where you can put other watches as well. So you can put, of course, the, the USM watches, but you can put other Zenith watches within that same box. Up to 12, actually.

[Rob]

I absolutely love this collaboration for a couple of reasons. Not only do I like the watches, I do love the watches. I think they're great, particularly the orange one. That one's stunning. We love orange on the Real Time show, don't we?

[Benoit de Klerk]

I'm not surprised.

[Rob]

But there's, there's something really genius about it from a marketing perspective because, you know, you've aligned with a brand that's also top of its game. So it's a Good match. It's a sort of luxury brand of luxury brand, but it's in a different industry and so you're cracking into an entirely new demographic. Fans of USM now know about Zenith and you can access different magazines as well. You're more likely to see it covered in an interior design magazine or something like this. You know, who have ever thought of matching a watch to a bedside table? It's brilliant. Can you think of any other industries or companies maybe already in your mind that you'd like to collaborate with to achieve the same thing?

[Benoit de Klerk]

I will not tell you everything, but I'll.

[Rob]

Go on, go on. No one's watching. It's fine.

[Benoit de Klerk]

No, I know. No one watching me. I know, but. No, but it's true. What you said is true. You know, SM is one of the most reputable furniture company. It's Anthem Porel. It's been there for so many years and it's going to be there for so many years. And, and the same for Zenit. You know, we celebrated our 160 years. This year we are celebrating 160 years and the same more or less for USM and they will be there for another 160 years like we will be. So. And this is. And it makes sense, to be honest, it makes sense. Now to come back to your question. You know, the beauty of collaboration and finding partnership and all that. We have a lot, you know, we have a lot. But for me what's important is it has to make sense, it has to be relevant and the love has to come on both sides. You know, when you do partnership, it's a partnership. Partner means two people. And if the partnership, there's one guy overpowering or one brand overpowering the other. I don't call this partnership, you know, so this is, for me, it's the philosophy of partnership has to come equally at 50, 50. And this is what we have with USM. It's a real 50, 50 partnership. And this is something very important for us.

[Ben Joseph]

So those 60 will fly off the shelf. Did you bundle a few to get in a set of four?

[Benoit de Klerk]

So we have bundles as well. And we have people who are buying the four, the four colors in one go as well. But there's only 60. We're not going to do 60 plus four or plus many four. So we, I mean, I'll tell you a small secret. You know, we launched yesterday at 8:30 this morning. I woke up at 5:30. The first thing I checked on my phone, I checked on the sales and I can tell you within almost 24 hours, a bit less than 24 hours. We sold around 25. Between 25 and 30% of the. Of the production.

[Ben Joseph]

Yeah.

[Benoit de Klerk]

So we sold, you know, so far so good. It's doing very well. Extremely good response. Extremely good response from the public, from the audience, from our customers, from our collectors and from journalists. I mean, so far it's been a very, very productive and very interesting, very interesting ride. My question, to answer your question, Rob, I mean, what's next? You know, and you know, it's something that you put on the table. What do we do? What do we do next with the usm? Obviously we have a couple of options and. But you know, it's the fun part, you know, that's. That's the fun part of the project.

[Rob]

Alon. Can you think of any brands you'd like to see Zenith collaborate with in this mold?

[Ben Joseph]

Well, many. And I have an old relic at home is a Zenith chronomast to the Cohiba D. Oh, cool. I don't. I don't think that will ever happen again. So that's a favorite paraphernalia I have keeping in the Swissness and the furniture. It's. I'm thinking of Vitra.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Yeah.

[Ben Joseph]

For example, if we stay in that industry.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Joseph]

And when I think of Zenith, I always tell people it's the essence of manufacture and chronographs as well and doing in house. So what I would love to see also is a garment maker, cloth maker, for example. I would love to see that happening. So not so much a hypebeast fashion collab, but really the metier the art of cloth making, for example. Something I'm thinking of think of. I don't know if people work with suit makers. Have they in the watch industry?

[Rob]

It has been done a couple of times. Yeah. It's like several row tailors of.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Yeah, some tailor. Is that kind of.

[Ben Joseph]

They have done it.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Yeah, yeah, it's been done.

[Ben Joseph]

I mean, obviously within lvmh there's Berluti things done. Leather dials which were awesome. Interesting in hublots.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Yeah.

[Rob]

So sky's the limit, basically.

[Ben Joseph]

Yeah. But you know what? I wanted to flip the coin. Yeah. And I want to ask Benoit. I don't think Zenith needs these collabs per se so much. And I agree doing it so limited as a teaser talking piece because Zenith has grown the last decade very much into the limelight, the spot that it belongs. They say themselves reach your star to their consumers, but I believe they've literally reached their own Star. You see that and what I love. And that's why I try to point out to a lot of brands, a lot of brands today are vintage, inspired, retro, styled. And sometimes that heritage, the pedigree that a brand has is a curse, because often you're pushed into that jacket, that straight jacket.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Yep.

[Ben Joseph]

Zenith has the duality of doing heritage models. So the corner masters, of course. How can you not make the tricolor?

[Rob]

This is incredible. It was only supposed to be a quick question, but, like, are you paying him or something? Like, he's just.

[Ben Joseph]

No, no, he's good. I've been wearing El Primero 400 ever since I'm 18. So I have the elite sports, and I'm a fan.

[Rob]

Do you want me to get a soapbox for you so you can get on it?

[Ben Joseph]

No, no.

[Benoit de Klerk]

And he knows, you know, the first thing was.

[Ben Joseph]

Was, oh, the orange. And I'm like, huh? 400 in a defy. I'm like, wow, what's going on? So I had a shortcut in my mind, and we're looking together.

[Rob]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Joseph]

So to finish it off, I'll stop talking is. Is the duality of the contemporary defies Skylight. It's very cutting edge, and there are many brands that can do both excellently, whereas being vertically integrated in the sense that they're truly a manufacture. And there's not many brands like that. So you get the total package. And I still think it's undervalued in price. You get a lot of bang for your buck.

[Rob]

Well, I think it's absolutely the case. I'm gonna let the guest speak in a moment.

[Ben Joseph]

Yeah, well, you should have asked me. It's your own fault.

[Rob]

I'm really sorry, everybody. We all came here to listen to Benoit, and we got Ben Joseph instead. But, you know, I was, I think, the only corollary, and I mean this extremely complimentary to both brands. I think of when I think of Zenith. The only other brand that I sort of put in the same category is Ulyss Nadam, who we interviewed this morning in terms of that innovation, that spirit, that tradition, that heritage, and that ability to do two things at once. But then you think about the entry point of UN versus Zenith. Zenith becomes like the go to brand for many people. It's a great way to start your watchmaking journey. Zenith as well, because the heritage is easy to understand. Brilliant logo, great movements, lovely designs, and there's something for everybody. What's your favorite thing that you offer in the current collection, Benoit?

[Benoit de Klerk]

Well, I have a few favorites to Be honest with you. But I like what you said. You know, Zenith is a very, very much an entry point into high end luxury watches. I'll give you an example. For example, the triple calendar.

[Rob]

Yeah, gorgeous.

[Benoit de Klerk]

That's conceptually, it's a very complicated watch. Mechanically, it's extremely complicated to do, but it's the entry point within the triple calendar, within the annual calendar. You know, you have the perpetual calendar. You have the annual calendar and then the triple calendar. But technically, this is amazing in terms of production. And I think this is a movement. And of course, it's el primero triple calendar. But it has a lot of substance. Yeah. A lot of things to. A lot of things to say. It's not too big, it's not too small. It has the day, the day to the moon phase, the months and all that. And it's a. It's a perfect watch. You know, which one I like, I like the movement of this. I really like the movement of that watch. And that's for sure. The other one I like as well is the pilot. You know, the pilot chrono. And what's. What seduced me is, you know those two big dates that come into the middle of the, of the dial. And I'll tell you another secret. My God, the secret time today, my first day.

[Ben Joseph]

You see those vitamins you took?

[Benoit de Klerk]

Yeah. You're live.

[Ben Joseph]

You're live.

[Rob]

Remember, it's live.

[Benoit de Klerk]

You guys are putting me on.

[Ben Joseph]

That's our task. We're independent.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Lucky you. But stay independent. But it's fun to be independent. The point is, when the first day I arrived at Zenit a year and a half ago, or like 18 months ago, they had prepared like all the collection on the table and said, Mr. Leclerc, you have to find the watch. I said, don't worry, I know exactly what I want. And I came and picked up my first watch that I picked up to put to wear on my wrist as the first day was the pilot chrono, because I like the ceramic one.

[Ben Joseph]

So it's the rainbow, basically, with the big date. Or you took the ceramic.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Yeah, I took the ceramic. Yeah, I took the pilot ceramic and I liked it. So I like very much the concept of the movement, you know, el primero in a triple calendar. But I like the pilots. The case of the pilot, the date, the way the. The way, the way the two dates come in like this. It's something that's.

[Ben Joseph]

Rob, Sorry, I'm going to jump in again. I'm sorry, I. I tell people, pilot and pilot, still today, Zenith is the only watch brand that's allowed to use that name. It's trademark. And, and I love when the, the, the geeks call me out. I said, okay, come, let's do a wipo, a vipo search. No, let's search. It's in the trademark register. And people don't believe me and they get blown away. So. There's so much pedigree there.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Yeah, I know. That's part of the pedigree. That's part of the DNA. The DNA of the brand, that's for sure.

[Rob]

Yeah, it's absolutely stunning stuff. I mean, this, this triple calendar for me is the one that I would pick up from the table if I had them all spread out in front of me. I could not believe the price when I, when I saw it for the first time, when I saw it released, I was like, that is basically the perfect zenith for me. You know, I mean, I love the chronographs, I love el primeros, you know what I mean? But everything together. You said it's a perfect watch. I agree. It is not. It could be a one watch collection because it is sporty, it is elegant, it is low profile, it's very comfortable to wear. I can't say anything.

[Ben Joseph]

And there is a steel bracelet nowadays.

[Benoit de Klerk]

And there's a steel bracelet, and it's the entry point into the, the, the annual triple calendar year perpetual calendar spot. You know, today a triple calendar in the market is much more expensive than that, you know, and it's the entry point for someone who knows about watches, who wants to get into those, those complications, to step in and take that step, you know, the first step, and then the second step will be the perpetual calendar or the, the annual calendar. So that's the fun part. And then it's, it's serious watchmaking here.

[Rob]

Serious watchmaking is the word. Yeah. I mean, for me, like when you think, well, where else can you get a watch that even looks a bit like that? And maybe the one thing I could think is like, maybe something from JLC, maybe. Yeah, you've been another 10k on top.

[Ben Joseph]

Yeah.

[Rob]

And it's just, it's not as versatile. So, you know, I just, I can't.

[Ben Joseph]

Say, okay, let's show that we are now paid by the brands. Let's switch gears. Let's show that we can do critical thinking. I listen to the community base, Benoit. This was before you joined Zenit. There was a lot of feather ruffled when Zenith switched to the 3600 platform of calibers and made a three hand El Primero, those that says, oh, that's a no go, what's the stance today? And the view on that? Because the Elite caliber retired.

[Benoit de Klerk]

So there are three questions in there. You know, every watch brand, and I'm not going to point fingers or to speak about people, but the past is the past. But I understand that we need to understand that movements evolve. And at Zenit, we have a team of engineers. Their job is only to work on the evolvement of the movements. And they are professional engineers. And they work for a year, two years, three years to change a little thing in the improvement of the movement that you don't see and nobody sees, but it's an improvement. So we are in a perpetual seek of improvement of the movement. And this could be a rationale or reason why, number one, then the Elite, same story. The Elite is evolving. Is evolving. There's a lot of things happening on the Elite. And it's a very precise, very, very good movement. People love it. And some people prefer, sometimes they did compared to the premium, depending on the size, depending on the watch and all that. But it's definitely a Zenith movement and a successful Zenith movement. And we're working very hard as well to make it more, to make it better, to improve it. I wouldn't say that it's retired. I would not say it's retired because it's still part of, of a pillar of our, of our movement collection. And you know, we're working on other movements, improvement as well, and other movements. You know, it's our job.

[Ben Joseph]

You have a beautiful one on your wrist. So that also shows the pedigree of the brand. I'm happy to hear that the Elite is now retired.

[Benoit de Klerk]

It's not retired, no, no.

[Ben Joseph]

But they were phasing it out. And I guess that with you and your predecessor, you maybe changed course and what? I always have a philosophical discussion with collectors. They use the same analogy for the Breitling Navi timer. They made a three hand Navi timer without a slide rule. And then I said, aha, Zenith, I think, did the right choice because the three hand El Primero still beats at 36,000. And that makes an El Primero. An El Primero. The chrono doesn't make it an El Primero, whereas a Navitimer is a Navitimer because of the slide rule and not solely being a chronograph. Do you concur? Do you see differently when I say such a thing?

[Benoit de Klerk]

You know, I concur because it's part of the improvements. Yeah, I concur because this is what we need. I concur. As long as you use that movement. You see what I mean? And you need to put that movement to use, you know, and that's. And that's very important as well. And that's. That's part of the strategy as well. All I can say. Stay tuned.

[Ben Joseph]

Okay, soundbag.

[Rob]

Oh, gonna have to isolate that one and cut it out. I can't think of a better and more tantalizing point to end the interview, unfortunately. I very much enjoyed this one. I'm sorry we talked for so much of it, but it's just obviously a brand that has got us very excited. You know, we are full of beans when it comes to Zenith, aren't we? We love what you're doing, Benoit. Thank you for joining us. I can't wait to get you back on the show for a full length episode again. But right now, we will let you back into the wild, back out there into the fray, and enjoy the rest of the fair.

[Benoit de Klerk]

Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you for what you do. What you do is important as well for the industry, so the watch industry, so the great and looking forward to hearing from you and to seeing you soon. Keep it up. Keep up the good job.

[Ben Joseph]

Thank you.

[Rob]

Thanks, man.

[Ben Joseph]

Thank you.