A (2:14)

Wow.

B (2:14)

Yes.

A (2:15)

Told you. You can't get. You can't catch him off guard. He's just like, yeah, whatever the answer.

C (2:19)

Is, there's no hesitation, stutter, nothing. Butter.

A (2:23)

What do you think, Rob? What do you think I'd do? This is my job. Go on, tell us something. What's coming?

B (2:28)

So it will be. It will be A tribute to of the one most significant timepiece of Doxa since ever.

A (2:45)

Okay, I like it. That was well thought out. Nicely said. Oblique enough to not have really given anything away. But I'm sure our listeners will have their suggestions. I can't wait to hear them discuss that.

C (2:56)

David, one thing that amazes me, and maybe we can talk about new releases at Geneva Watch days, is that Doxa on one hand is iconic for its shape and yet you're able to take that in so many different directions that all are new somehow. So can you talk specifically about the novelties that you can talk about presently, obviously for Geneva Watch Days and then just a little bit more of the philosophy of how you take something so accepted and are able to branch it out so far.

B (3:25)

So first of all, you know, it has different aspects. First of all, we're very happy to have such a strong DNA factor. You know, I mean technically you can recognize an end consumer wearing a docs over 10 meters just by the case shape.

C (3:36)

Absolutely.

B (3:38)

Then secondly, since the last five years, what was important is to stay true to your DNA, not to try to please everyone. So Doxa stays in the water or around the water. We're not looking a direction to go in a mass market to please the pilots or the car industry, the classical market, but then within that sector you can play in the water. So technically you stay in the DNA shape, but you can, you can work with materials, you can work with size and you can work especially also how a watch feels on the wrist and more and more over time. The people, for example, we launched now the engineer watch today, the 45 millimeter 750t historical timepiece going back over 20 years. 20 years back it was 16 point, I don't know height, we brought it down to 11.9. And the end consumer, when he sees on a paper, oh, this is a 45, it's too big. The reaction is put it on your wrist, it feels like a 43. The people are so amazed when you put it on the wrist. And for us it was important. Now Gini watch that last two years we had a 39 which we launched this year. We launched the GMT 40 millimeters. And that was also really necessary to go back to contribute a statement to the real, to the real divers. Of course, not every docs and consumer is a diver. The biggest portion is we call them the desk divers in a good sense. And the feedback was amazing. And you need a certain size when you have your swimsuit on, you know, 39, okay. You can try to Dive. Me personally also I'm diving, but when I dive I want to, I want to have the real watch on my wrist.

C (5:20)

Yeah, it sounds to me we had a Savier de Roquemorel from Czapek this morning and his point of view was he was very reverential of the past, but also said we have to give ourselves freedom to play. And it sounds a bit like you're coming from the same space. In other words, you have this very respected and understood silhouette and Doxa, but you also give yourself a lot of freedom to play around with those codes to ultimately make something that's wearable. Is that correct or am I missing something?

B (5:44)

No, absolutely. Because also, you know, since Doxa, the brand started and this is this segment of dive watches since 1967, very soon doxa came up with all these different colors and the colors were not meant to be fashionable. I'm all time tell when, I don't know, some years ago the Tiffany blue came up and I was laughing. I said look at docs as I'm journalist. So the aquamarine look as it's when docs are using aquamarine, so it has a functioning behind. But at the same time what everything is colorful. We talk about water, we talk about diving, we talk about beaches. Of course it, it, it can't be too stiff. You can play follow the sun, follow the water. And so this automatically gives you pretty much a large space to play.

C (6:34)

And one thing going back to Rob's comment about you being unflappable and having everything planned, as we know things in the world are highly unplanned right now. And so without going into any obviously you know too fine details, how is it that you're navigating that? How are you keeping this fixed plan consistent with some of the things around the world that are changing very quickly?

B (6:55)

Well, listen, I cannot talk for others, but it's also here, it's not complex. You need to be prepared in plans. When we saw the things coming, not that we are geniuses, but we have a worst case scenario. So when this with the tariffs came, we were prepared very simply and technically the job, when you run a business, of course, creating watches to sell watches, one thing, but when you talk, for example, in the financial sector, all the banks, they have worst case scenarios. So do the same. So when it gets, it's not funny, but at least you're prepared. And for us now also in the US we just, we didn't go into panics in April. We had no price increase, not cut off of margins to retailers. And we just made a light price increase of 9% only in the US as of September 2nd. And the reason was even not the tariffs, it was off the US dollar. Yeah, I needed to take care. It lost 10% and I needed to secured at a certain price level in the US stands up compared to the other markets. So I'm not here now to punish to be in panic and all this. And for us, the US is business as usual.

C (8:03)

And when we talk about investments at a show like Geneva Watch Days, clearly there is an investment and you might not see the roi. Is this something that as costs escalate, are you constantly reevaluating some of those investments or. Or do you stay the course just as you've done with production in terms of some of those marketing spends?

B (8:21)

So the marketing expense, whatever we just said, we just follow through. It was never a. Of course you're not going wild in expenses. Of course you take care. But it's not on those moments as long as you can afford. But you need to stay in the market. And technically when you see what is happening for the moment, if I spend $1, I can tell you I get more than before.

A (8:43)

Let's pivot away. You're not going to get him off guard. Honestly, I just, I'm sitting here watching.

C (8:48)

Things it looks like, but clearly not.

A (8:52)

Yeah, look at him just like batting away every. No, forget it. So let's talk about the fair. You've been a key, very visible component of Geneva Watch Days every year you've shown here and you know, you always have a big space, you have a big team, you have like all the colors, all the excitement, all the joie de viv, and we all enjoy coming to visit you whenever we're in time. But how are you finding it evolving as an event? Has it changed a lot in the last few years for you?

B (9:22)

Well, it gets bigger and bigger. I see also a number of visitors which is increasing a number that is quantity. It's also about quality where I'm very happy to see. And technically the moment in September is a very good moment because we have watch and wonders, the key show. This is in March, now next year mid of April. And it gives you an opportunity to kick off something for this last quarter. And you have a lot of media here, so we have a lot of pr. And technically, if I relate my investment of Geneva Watch Days, by the way, I think we followed this show as of the second edition constantly and we will support and I can make a different calculation if I would get all this PR value out, then the show becomes not so expensive, because if I would throw this money directly into magazines and it's nice to meet also the people in the industry and you can hear, you learn, you get opinions. And at the end, it's not only about Doxa, it is also our industry needs to stick together also. So there's also a lot of friendships going around to support, to exchange between brands.

A (10:37)

And this is nice thinking about those numbers. We're up to 66. It's 66 brands, isn't it? No. Yeah, yeah. Too many. Still room for more.

B (10:48)

Well, let me quote, I cannot say less is more, but everything has a limit.

A (10:57)

Yeah, fair point, fair point. I mean, it's. It's a lot of activity in a very small space. We've, we've touched on this with some other guests because the projected visitor numbers this year are 15,000.

B (11:07)

Yes.

A (11:08)

Five times what it was when it started, 2020. And that's great. Obviously, like you say, it becomes extremely high value for a brand to be here, to be present, to be encountering all these journalists and whatnot. But it is important that a balance is struck where it's not spread too thin. Right. Because, you know, you don't want the journalist to have to choose between seeing you.

B (11:25)

Yeah, exactly.

A (11:27)

So I think it works. I always have a wonderful time. The family aspect of it, you know, getting back together after the summer and, you know, sharing all the stories and ideas, I think is just immeasurably valuable. And I like the direction it seems to be going with the more cultural angle, you know. So this is something that Antoine and Catherine specifically were talking about a lot, like establishing difference between Geneva watch days and watches and wonders. If you were making all the decisions for Geneva watch days. Yeah. What kind of events or interactive exhibitions might you put on? Would you have more panels? Would you have more touch and feel sessions? Would you have more what?

B (12:11)

So I think a lot is already done, what you have here, but it's true to give additional events all this there through the numbers, the visitors, the time, as it was now, four, five years ago, you have less flexibility anymore. It starts to get around like the watch and the wonders, which technically is nice. So what we do also here with the tent. So I think slowly, if the number is raising, I think a certain bigger size cuts because you got more and more squeezed in, you know, but which is also nice. I'd rather have a space with fully packed then empty. Yeah, no, but I think the organization does a great job. They also learn, they grow and what you mentioned before, but where's the limit? And it's not the limit that you don't want to have other brands. But I think that the original idea should be kept.

A (13:08)

Yeah.

B (13:08)

And that's important because if it goes too large, this has to do. Who do you accept as a brand? Not to be criticizing whatever, but you keep. You need to keep the original idea and not to become a big exhibition at the end that the people. And it starts already. Oh, this is now Geneva Watch Week. This is now Geneva Watch Days and more and more for the people. It starts to be the same then.

A (13:32)

Yeah, very true. Having that character, having that individuality is important. And yeah, not stretching it, but as you said, and you know, we couldn't agree more, obviously, we, we've loved working with the team from Geneva Watch Days and we think that the organization is superb. And it's my favorite fair. It always has been because of the atmosphere, because of the stuff we get to see. Show us your watch. That's what we want to see. Let's talk about some watches. Come on. Okay, so tell me what you're wearing.

B (13:58)

So this one is now the launch of the GMT. It's a 40 millimeter which we launched this April, also in the basic colors. And here we also added on a fume color which sometimes again we played and was. Yeah, nice sound.

A (14:21)

That's beautiful.

B (14:23)

And also that with the gmt this was really over years the market was asking for. But it's not that we just go back in time and just to copy the GMTs we had before we went in time, we adapted it also in size 40 millimeter. Today we're not selling watches only in America. We're also selling watches in Asia and all this. So you need to play also with sizes. And this one was very well received. It's not like, say that a very bulky diver watch which you use during the day in the office, you know.

A (14:55)

And it's like a tropical female sort of.

B (14:58)

Yes, that's lovely.

A (15:00)

Really warm colors. I don't know if the light is showing the. Oh yeah, that's coming out. You've got the sort of aged radium loom, that beautiful sun burst finish. Yeah. Sunray finish with a sort of top center and a black surround. Yep. Very legible, very classy, very under the radar. Beautiful size as well. 40 millimeters. A great sweet spot, isn't it?

C (15:25)

And very light for how heavy duty it is.

A (15:27)

Yeah, it's tough.

B (15:28)

It's all the time. Also with Doxa, that in general, when you Put it on the wrist. It's, you know, with doxa, functionality comes first in all aspects and. But then when you put it on the wrist, the experience of wearing a Daksa is surprisingly in a good direction. Better when you just look like a diver's watch on, on the paper. And just yesterday, for example, also had an interview. Now the journalists are coming, but you know, you have diver watches and dollies. Why are you not putting diver watches, diving watch on the, on the, on the dial. But if you drive a Porsche, as Porsche needs to say it's a car.

A (16:11)

Could you imagine such a stupid thing to say in it? Yeah.

B (16:14)

So.

C (16:14)

Well, so I know we're gonna wrap up soon, but what you, what you said did sort of get a question going in my mind. Dive watches as a segment are extremely competitive. I think they might be the most sold in all of watches. But you mentioned wearability. Do you think it's got to be hard to stand out in the market. But is the wearability really what you think sets you apart?

B (16:32)

No, not only.

C (16:33)

Okay.

B (16:33)

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The situation is, is it would be with the diving watches competitive, the real deal, you do not have a lot of real deals in the diving segment that would be the same if Doxa would start to make pilot watches. I can tell you that's not a territory where I could design it, I could launch it. But if I see diving watches when I see the height and they have a see through on the back, not going further. So there it starts already. And if you want to have a see through, your watch will be as thick as. So I cannot style of other brands, you know, but if the diving is a part of a category of everything, me as an end consumer, okay, I'm a desk diver, I like it, I buy it, I know the brand. But anyone who is a bit interested of legitimacy in history, where the experience comes from, I think a lot of brands, they fall off the picture very clear.

A (17:28)

Yeah. I mean you've also got, you know, the iconic colors and that's not misapplication of the term iconic. Your oranges, your turquoise, the yellows that they really stand out, they pop, they're unique. And the wearability, I mean the lugs are so forgiving on a doc. So that's the thing, you know, you've got, you've got so much shape and so much form and so much visual interest, but it's in such a compact footprint that yeah, I think it's a great everyday watch. And I really love the 39s. I was surprised because it wasn't something I'd ever thought was necessary. Necessary maybe isn't the word, but absolutely wonderfully executed. And yeah, so What? My dream doctor is a 39 millimeter orange dial with black rubber strap. That is. That's a nice wearing experience. So it's my birthday next week, by the way. Yeah. Just in case you wanted, you know.

B (18:18)

You know, you're so young, so I'm not asking for your age.

A (18:24)

So we are going to wrap up the show, but I have to ask you because you know a thing or two about the evening events of Geneva watch days. Where are your favorite places to go around town when the fair's on?

B (18:36)

Also after here in Geneva.

A (18:37)

Yeah.

B (18:37)

Where to go. So I have a very clear. I need to go. It's Cafe de Paris. This is one. This is. I love the space. And there's another. So it's about food because during the day it's not. We don't have time to eat very. And there's a Korean space close by here where I invite the team or also guests. The food is so good. And the next day everyone remembers that you were there because it smells, but the quality of food is nice. And then just hang around especially to have a nice dinner with customers and a team.

A (19:09)

That's a great tip. Thanks very much for that. I'm sure our listeners will be seeking out those recommendations. We'll put them in the show notes after we get back home from the fair. But in the meantime, we will wish Jan goodbye and fair winds and following soon.

B (19:23)

So thank you very much. It was very nice talking to you guys.

A (19:25)

Thank you.

B (19:46)

It.