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- [00:00]
Host
Going hi and hello Watch fans and welcome once again to Geneva watch days 2025 from the glass Onion outside the pavilion. Today we are joined with Michel Nadiga from Greubel Forsey to talk to us about his novelties, about the brand, about his experience of the event and everything else that pops up in conversation. Michelle, welcome to the Glass Onion. It's a pleasure to have you here.
- [00:26]
Michel Nadig
Thank you very much for having me.
- [00:27]
Interviewer 2
Pleasure, Michelle. We are user generated content. So we got a lot of questions. People got excited you're here. They wanted to know what tattoo did you put? Because you've teased everyone on Instagram and you, you asked them what should I put? So they're dying to know. Is it a Gribble Forse watch?
- [00:46]
Michel Nadig
No, no, no, I'm not quite there yet. But I wasn't going to get something from the catalog anyway. It was just, I thought it was a bit of fun, but no, it's something that was planned a little bit in advance. But then we went to Miami and we figured, you know, that's a place where we should get tattoos. And so we did. It's a part of one of my guitars which has like a flower motif which I ended up getting amazing and then spent a lot of time out in the sun, which is probably not the best thing to do when you get a tattoo, but such as life, it went out, turned out great.
- [01:19]
Interviewer 2
Amazing. How important is it for you as a leader of an amazing watch brand to interact on these socials?
- [01:30]
Michel Nadig
It's a lot of fun, basically. And I do try to show people that even though global force is considered as like the best of the best or the Mount Everest of watchmaking, that our timepieces are actually made to be worn and you can actually just, you know, be comfortable and you don't have to worry about anything. So I think on social media it's, it's, it's a good way to do that and it's also a good opportunity for everyone to just start a conversation which, you know, you get to connect with people that, that you would have otherwise never met. So. So, yeah, it's a lot of fun.
- [02:03]
Interviewer 2
That's actually interesting and I love that you've pointing this out because I have a retail background and brands would always force me to present everything with not one, but two gloves on.
- [02:15]
Michel Nadig
Sure, we did that as well actually.
- [02:18]
Interviewer 2
And, and, and I obviously understand the wish because coming from the meteor dia and they are pieces of art and man made and there's a lot of love passion hours put in buys it in the end.
- [02:33]
Unclear/Background Voice
And eats it in the end. And eats it in the end. And eats it in the end. And eats it in the end. And eats it in the end. And eats it in the end. And eats it in the end. I need to sit in the end. I need to sit in the end. I need to sit in the end.
- [02:41]
Interviewer 2
I'll use that as a segue, if I may. I met you a few years ago, was blown away by not only your modesty and friendliness and knowledge, you've, I dare say, been propelled into the CEO.
- [02:54]
Michel Nadig
Today of Revolver Forcing. Yes, I'm not modest anymore. Now I'm so arrogant I don't even know who I'm talking to.
- [03:03]
Interviewer 2
So this is something that I used the word to propel. Was that an ambition of yours or could you simply not reject the request to step up?
- [03:15]
Michel Nadig
So it was not something which was planned. Actually, it wasn't even planned that I would start working for Fable Forsey, which is ten years ago now. But just one thing keeps leading to another and here we are. And now I try to do the best I can with the opportunity that I'm given. So I do really appreciate that Robert and Steven seem to have just enough confidence to let me. To let me. To let me be here. But so far it's going great. Again, it was. I don't really have any personal ambition in any of this. I'm just very much in love with Grebel Forsey and I feel like it deserves to be taken care of properly.
- [03:59]
Host
So we've never had you on the show before. This is a great honor, a great opportunity for us to talk to you because obviously Greubel Forsey is a brand that are looking. Listeners are very aware of and very fond of. But tell us about yourself. You know, personal ambition may not have directed you towards the position you're in now, but what, what are. What is your personal ambition in the industry in general or in your personal life?
- [04:21]
Michel Nadig
Well, my. I guess my personal ambition is to make sure and try to contribute in any way that I can to make Robert and Stephen's ambition come to life and be sustainable and kind of flourish over the next however many years be doing this. So I won't say my personal ambition is kind of their ambition because. And every once in a while someone asks me what's my vision and all that, I tell them my vision is almost irrelevant because it's never going to be better than Robert and Steven's vision anyway. So why would I impose something which is kind of redundant in terms of what was already built.
- [05:03]
Interviewer 2
So their vision was they basically broke molds in watchmaking. They broke watch cases because I remember vividly as a kid in Baselworld going to the ahci, crossing the bridge from hole one. The first incredible was there. I was actually young with my dad stuck to the windows. I met Steven there, actually. The good old days with Van der Klau and the Aldo, of course, everybody. So the windbreaking molds, you guys, with the Aeon project as well, the handmade one, which kept on pushing the envelope. You were innovative by letting a group come on board for, I believe 20%. If I remember correctly, you've regained full independence again.
- [05:59]
Michel Nadig
That's right.
- [06:00]
Interviewer 2
Amfah says full because you were independent.
- [06:03]
Michel Nadig
Yeah. So there was. Richmond had a 20% stake from, I want to say 2006 until two years ago. But it was more of an investment for them. So they weren't necessarily involved in any capacity. But we did feel like. So it's kind of double edged sword. So we really love our freedom because if we didn't have that, we would have never made a handmade one, for example. So that's just. You kind of need that, especially given the very artistic way that things are done. But then it's also a lot of pressure. But still it's kind of the price to pay to be able to do what we do, which is not necessarily a commercial enterprise. It almost never is. But the idea is to always, with every project, contribute something which we feel is significant within the context of the history of watchmaking as a whole. So now the only shareholders are again, Robert and Stephen. So we're having a really good time now.
- [07:03]
Host
So tell us about what you've announced or shown at this fair so far. We're only one day in, of course, but I'm sure you've had a lot of visitors and interest in what you're doing already.
- [07:12]
Michel Nadig
Yeah, yeah, I'm tired already because it got bigger as well. I remember the first time was during COVID where we just spent like two hours talking to one guy. And now it's grown quite a bit. But it's worth the Borrevaj here. So it's exciting and you know, everyone's there. Obviously we've shown quite a few things because we've been busy this year, I want to say. And a lot of people have not seen what we. What we announced. So we have the advance contemporary here in stainless steel. So it's the last edition of the movement. So we do 33 pieces and then we retire the caliber Something that we try to communicate more clearly. Say, what exactly is the limitation? And when a caliber is closed, it's going to be closed forever. We have GMT, the GMT balancing convex in 42.5 millimeters as well. Put a red strap on that because we think it's super cool. And it really does make quite a difference aesthetically. And now, especially for Geneva watches, we have the QP bouncy. So that's our take on the professional calendar. And we used to have one. It was called the QPI equation. Which included the equation of time, months and seasons, solstices and all that. But no one seemed to really give a shit about these. Yeah, okay, we should probably listen to our collectors. And so we removed that, which gives us a slimmer timepiece. But we still have the clear inline display. Day, date, month. And I think from what I've seen, it's by far the easiest professional calendar to operate. So you can go forwards, backwards. You can't break the mechanism. And the irony of it being it's one of our most complicated pieces. But at the same time, the easiest one to use.
- [08:55]
Host
Talk to me about calibre development. Because if you're making a caliber and retiring after 33 pieces. And the investment must be enormous. How long does it take to construct a new caliber?
- [09:06]
Michel Nadig
Anywhere between three and, like, 15 years.
- [09:09]
Host
Okay. Quite a delta.
- [09:11]
Michel Nadig
It depends on what it is. So something like a grandsonnery is going to take a long time. But you're right, more often than not, it really isn't a commercial exercise. But again, as we said, since we have the freedom to do these kinds of things. Where no one is asking us for growth or quarterly reports. We can really just focus on what we feel needs to be done. Or what we really enjoy doing in caliber development. I don't think there's really a rule in how we do that. But what's interesting, at least to me, Is that movement, construction and design are so closely linked that it's not one follows the other. It's just you have to do both at the same time. So any aesthetic consideration is going to, at the same time, be a technical one. So if you think of the double balancee, for example, the design of the watch is literally just the movement. And it has to work, obviously. So I think that's quite unique to build calibers in such a way. And especially now we have, I want to say, 34 unique calibers in the past 20 years. And that's a lot of fun.
- [10:27]
Host
So how does that impact product planning? Like, for a Calendar of projected releases over the next five, 10, 15 years maybe. Do you know what's coming so that you can build the calibers in time for that? Or is it always in flux? And then certain research and development been pursuing shift into a different company.
- [10:45]
Michel Nadig
So we have a 10 year plan usually that's kind of rolling, but then we adjust certain things and for special projects with the nanofood, which we're showing here as well. So we call it fundamental research, which means that it's R and D, but not with any specific product in mind. It's just pure research. So we don't really know what we're going to end up with and we don't really know when. But then obviously you can't work like this for every single piece. Otherwise that would just be a little bit irresponsible from a business standpoint. So we do have a few things that we can plan even for next year. Something that we started recently. We should have it for next year so we have some flexibility on certain things.
- [11:31]
Host
There are certain brands in the industry that have this unusual status, like the Formula one of watchmaking, as it were. You know, the ones that are able to push the boundaries of horology and develop calibers that nobody else ever sees sees coming. Do you embrace that role? Because I would, I would class you as one of those brands that's doing things that nobody else is doing. And the ideas that you're coming up with eventually will sort of filter down in different ways to other brands. And so you are a leader in every sense of the word. Does that affect the way that you plan? Is it something you're proud of? Is it something you think about or is it just. Do you just do what you do?
- [12:04]
Michel Nadig
That's a really good question. So for, for me personally, it's nice to see that some of the ideas which I feel came from Green Forsey are kind of being adapted by the industry. Take hand finishing, for example. Twenty years ago that was just not even a thing that people were talking about, right? And now it's. Everyone is. So that's, that's really, really nice to see. However, sometimes it's just a little slightly frustrating because when you're the first one doing something, you do all the work and, and then people kind of take over from there. So everyone tell me like, yeah, come on, you know. But overall, I think whatever we can do to help the industry or to innovate or to push things further is going to be good for everyone in the long term, including us.
- [12:54]
Host
Where did your Passion for watchmaking come from?
- [12:58]
Michel Nadig
I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, I was almost. I just grew up with it. So Robert Gribble is my stepfather. Okay. And that's the reason that I also didn't want to work for Grebel Forsey because of that family relationship and nepotism and all that kind of stuff. But met him in 2006 for the first time when I was quite young. Not young anymore, but I was back then. And I remember it was just part of conversations on the kitchen table, basically. Back then I did not realize the significance of what he was doing. And I remember he was. We were on a plane. He was basically testing the grandsonry for about three years. And Tony was like, yeah, it's a grandsonry, right? And then I was like, oh, okay. This is a whole, you know, it's a whole different thing. So from there it just kind of. It just kind of snowballed. I did get a chance to work closely with Stephen Forsey for around five years, and that got me really, really deep into that rabbit hole. And to this day, when I start to, you know, feel a bit overconfident, like, you know, I know my stuff now and all that. I spent five minutes talking to Steven, I just want to cry because it is so. It just keeps getting. Getting fueled and it keeps getting more exciting for me.
- [14:18]
Interviewer 2
How active are both gentlemen today still in the company? Are they full time there?
- [14:23]
Michel Nadig
No. So they're not in the day to day anymore, which I kind of understand. After a while, you know, you should be focusing on different things. We have a monthly board meeting basically because I do want to be very transparent with what we're doing and all that. And apart from that, we're just having conversations. But in terms of actually making watches, they haven't done that for a very long time. It's a significant team now that's in place and has been for many years. So since the beginning they felt that with a team they will be able to do more than if it's just the two of them. And now the idea would be also to. Or the idea for them is to start thinking about them really long term. So what's going to happen in 50 years? All that. So they're not going to be involved in 50 years, obviously. So the idea is also for the company or the brand to start to become independent of its founders, which is it's a long term project. And so that's kind of what we're doing.
- [15:21]
Interviewer 2
They still mentor the boys and girls that lead to R D in kernel.
- [15:28]
Michel Nadig
So Robert mostly, which is nice to see, he can focus more on concepts than on, let's say, the exact shape of that Tourbillon bridge. So that's something that the team has now kind of taken over. But he's always, I want to say, 20 years ahead of all of us. And the concepts that he brings to the table are so out there that the nice challenge for us is that we try to translate that into something tangible that we can actually make.
- [16:00]
Host
How hard is it to find people that fit in this team? Because I'm guessing the bar is very, very high. And, you know, maybe things are getting a little bit better now with more and more people training to be watchmakers in this generation. But in my generation, when I was training, it was. It was. It was terrible. There was a complete dearth of talent. You know, you couldn't find anybody to step up to this level. So, you know, where do you go? What do you look for? How do you interview people?
- [16:25]
Michel Nadig
So actually, for. In terms of assembly, in terms of watchmakers, everyone's like in their early 20s. So the best thing, at least for us, is kind of talk with the class. But then the training actually happens internally.
- [16:38]
Host
Right.
- [16:39]
Michel Nadig
And not in any official capacity, but it's basically one year of training to see if you can actually start working on, I would say, simple movements, and then you just work yourself up. So we have laboratory watchmakers who are in charge of training watch. But then you never know. If you're in your early 20s and you have rebel forcing on your CV, then you can just go somewhere else and, you know, that's kind of part of it. But it's mostly mostly internal training which makes a difference. And hand finishing, I want to say, is even, even more challenging. It's even more nation, especially at this level. It's still basically the bottleneck that we have today in terms of production numbers.
- [17:19]
Interviewer 2
Talking of hand finishing, Legacy Aeon foundation, what's going on there?
- [17:25]
Michel Nadig
So for time, a foundation which started in 2006, I believe, as well. Then there was The Naissance du Montre, 1 with Philippe du Foul, Naissance Dumont, 2 with Urwerk Cyrano Dominique. And I'm not sure if you saw the Naissance Vil Montre 3 that Fergnaut Berthou was able to do more independently over the past four years. We honestly didn't have or take the time to really keep developing that because it was always something that we kind of did on weekends. And Gremlin Forsey being obviously paying our salaries. So it's interesting that you say that. Now that Nissan du Mont 3 is finished, we do have a number of projects that we started working on. Again, I want to put more effort into it than we did before.
- [18:15]
Host
How important are events like this one to Kerbal Forse to get out in front of the public, to see people, to let them handle the watches? How many events do you do? Is it something you plan on doing in the future? Even more?
- [18:28]
Michel Nadig
Yeah, absolutely. So we, we do less events than. Than we used to. But we do love Geneva watch days just because, I mean, we're sitting outside, we're having a conversation. It's. It's as it's sunny and people still have more time than they would for like watches and wonders, which for us does not make as much sense anymore as it used to. We do a lot of private events, small groups, because it is very technical. And if you're not super deep into watchmaking, it takes some time to kind of learn and appreciate what we do. But uneven watch phase is, I would say, next to Dubai Watch Week, one of the most fun events that we, that we do.
- [19:09]
Host
So you mentioned Dubai. Which parts of the world are most interested in Greeple for, say, from sales and content?
- [19:19]
Michel Nadig
We try to keep a nice balance just because if there's anything that happens in any certain region, we don't want it to impact our business too much. But basically we're looking at 30% north and South America, 30% Middle east and 30% Southeast Asia, Japan and 10% Europe.
- [19:39]
Host
That's a nice split. That is a nice split. That's nice and even. That's pretty unusual, to be honest. Nowadays, I find like a lot of independent brands tend to have most of their business in either the US or in Asia.
- [19:49]
Michel Nadig
But sure. And I'm actually quite happy that we don't have most of our business in the US Otherwise I would probably not be sitting here and smiling.
- [19:57]
Host
Yeah.
- [19:57]
Interviewer 2
And I said, oh, 10% in Europe. We're in Europe. And that was my question that I go try on global forces as a civilian if I'm not fair. My friend Nadim on Bond Street.
- [20:11]
Michel Nadig
Yes.
- [20:12]
Interviewer 2
In London of the Swiss Gallery. So shout out to him because I believe that's maybe the only artist I know in Europe and maybe Switzerland, it's Bucher, maybe.
- [20:22]
Michel Nadig
No, no, no, not even. So we have good partner in Milan, so Pizza is doing very well and we do have a few doors, but it's more to be able to kind of take care of our collectors because we're a small team. So it's important for us to have a retail network where even if they want, you know, a new strap or a service, so it's not necessarily about sales, but it's just for collectors to have easy access to the brand because we can't really do everything ourselves.
- [20:51]
Host
So what's today looking like for you? Is it a busy day full of meetings?
- [20:56]
Michel Nadig
We're just double booked back to back. But, you know, before we got here, I was like, looking at my calendar. I was like, okay, we did this, we did that. And after one day we're like, yeah, it. We're just all over the place and everyone can come and.
- [21:08]
Host
Yeah, I love to end on a sound bite. So it is the sound bite that we're going to end on there, because that is how you approach a professional watch. Fair. Love it. It's absolutely true. Michelle, thank you so much for your time. Everybody that's watching, please, like, subscribe, follow, comment, and share the podcast. See you very soon. Bye. Bye.