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- [00:07]
A
Hi and hello watch fans and welcome for the last time of Geneva watch days 2025 to the Glass Igloo. We're here joined by Philip Belay of Claude Melan to talk about his wonderful watches and to ask him about the fair. But let's start off with our friendly neighborhood jeweler, Alan Ben Joseph. Have you heard of Claude Melan before, Alain?
- [00:28]
B
The funny thing is Claude Melan I know from the shop windows whenever I do a retail safari, because what retail. What do retailers do? They do retail safaris when they're abroad and every top jeweler in Switzerland has Claude Melan. So I felt foolish not knowing enough about the brand and the name Melan. Obviously we have our friend Edouard Melanie in the Milan. A part of the Milan 5 is famous because of Ademarpiguet. But unfortunately I don't know enough besides that. So I don't know where to start. Maybe first question, I see two tonneau shaped watches. Are all the watches tonneau shaped?
- [01:08]
C
Oh, tonneau was invented by Cartier. Really 1920 Tortue. Exactly. And you see, you know the difference between a tonneau and a tortue? The legs or the horns in watchmaking Speaky. So we, we did design a torto shape which is part of the. The heritage and significant cases in. In our industry. So as you said, Melan is a large branch, but it's one of the four families that founded high horology in the Valley Drou in 1680 something after. They're all coming from France, funny enough. So after, during the religious war we saw those families coming to Geneva and Calvin was very kind saying no, no more place here. Go up the mountain. They are farmers and being farmers, they don't know there is snow between November and March. So they're stuck. What do you do when you're stuck? You count time. And this is how hierology was founded and created. So Valet Drew is really 7,000 people living there, but for 350 years or so we all have wheels in our head and it became the masterpiece for chronographs and repeaters. So yes, we are coming from there.
- [02:42]
A
Incredible stuff. When we go into the history of a brand, we don't often go all the way back to the history of high horology. But it's a lovely little story, isn't it? How it all came about and how we ended up here together in Geneva enjoying a wonderful fair. How has it been for you, Felipe?
- [02:57]
C
Well, it's the fifth edition we do and we feel there was more Traffic, especially from a crowd that we didn't see as much the previous year. So collectors, people coming to the tent, seeing the watches, going up to the hotel and say, oh, we saw that in the window. Can we see more? So that's very, very nice to see a new crowd, a new horizon. We saw retailers. We saw some regions even right from Japan and from the States as well, Italy, France, of course, and Switzerland. So quite a. A very nice crowd.
- [03:38]
A
It's obviously growing. Geneva Watch Days is getting bigger and bigger. We've got 66 brands exhibiting here as we've touched upon earlier. And we had Catherine and Antoine on the show and both of them mentioned that the goal to position Geneva Watch Days as more of a cultural event, something more educational and interactive than watches and wonders. Does that kind of style appeal to you? Do you think that that's what this fair needs to be? Or would you foresee any other changes or developments that you'd like impress implemented.
- [04:09]
C
You know, as a. As a more confidential brand. Everything goes. So we don't pretend to be educational because one of our goal is and. And dream is to see that people will buy Claude Melon to buy our Saba Fair is master of skeleton. We don't pretend to be a manufacturer. And the key thing here is I'm using words of a French humorist called the right lens for the leg is when the feet touch the ground. And that is true for products, for price, for communication. And really, if gdy Vibe Watch days becomes more educational, if we keep the same spirit, the same openness and the same serenity for people visiting us, it's all good.
- [05:07]
A
I think that is the key thing, isn't it?
- [05:09]
C
It's absolutely the key. It's really the fact that it's open, that people there passing the door and asking for products. The openness and the relaxed attitude is key.
- [05:22]
A
That is what differentiates it. It's what we've always loved as journalists. It's always been, well, ever since 2020, when it first began, my favorite film fair to visit because it has such a familial feel. You know, you see everyone in the tent every night, CEOs talking to one another, sales executives sharing tips and tricks and whatnot. And you realize that we're all in this together. You know, it's competitive, obviously, but as Nicholas from Fears likes to say, a rising tide raises all ships. And if we are to succeed, we'll succeed together. And if we're failing, then, you know, the industry needs to change. Do you think the industry does need to change and adapt or.
- [05:58]
C
Well, it will change anyway. Yeah, and it's already changing and it has changed a lot since COVID which is sort of a landmark for everybody. So it. It will. It's not a need, it's. If you don't change, you don't evolve. If you don't evolve, you die. It's very simple.
- [06:14]
A
And what do you think that the industry needs to do then? That it's not doing.
- [06:19]
C
That? I would love to know. I would love to know what to do. What I'm sure is that we need to be always closer to our customer, always listen, always take into account what is observed. But at the same time, if you do that, you're always late. So you have to anticipate from what you learn. And this is the passion that is animating everybody in the industry.
- [06:47]
B
So instead of looking to the future for now, let's pause that.
- [06:52]
C
How old is the brat? Claire Mellon. It's at 45 years old. Who started it? Claude Mellon. Claude. Monsieur Milan. Monsieur Claude Milan, who is issued from another branch of the Milan family. So he is not linked to Edouard or Edouard's father. Claude Milan was a watchmaker. He worked at Le Mania, which is now become the Breguet factory. Then he went to Audemars Piguet. At Audemars Piguet he had great success. And through this success he was led to buy EPFL Study. He was led to create his own brand, had very good success. Unfortunately, one major customer, the Sultanate of Brunei, was buying quite a lot. And if you remember, you're probably too young to remember, but in the early 80s, the sultanate stopped all the buyings and unfortunately the payments. So that put Claude Menon in difficulty. It was bought over by Henri Bernay, a family from Valedoux, from labelle. And Henri bought the company, led it, and the story starts to be beautiful. Because I knew Henry from all my previous days at Richemont and I was buying movement from Henri Bernay and I met him at GTE 2010 and he says, oh, Philippe, by the way, it's amazing. My daughter becomes Prefet, so she can't work in the company. My granddaughter's got children, she cannot work full time. I am selling the company. Wow, what a shock. And honestly, I never dreamed about having a watch company of my own. So we talked about eight months and I bought the company in December 10. So since December 10, soon, 15 years, we are having fun and we love it.
- [08:48]
A
You're five years out from the brand's 50th anniversary, of course. I guess as everything takes a long time in watchmaking, you're already planning ahead for that. Will it be a special year?
- [08:58]
C
Well, you know, in small companies we have to be true. I never plan neither myself, my home life or my products five years in advance. So no. Okay. Opportunities and, and, and really feelings are leading us and we are very close to markets. So we will, we will adapt. See, if small companies can go through Covid and go through tough times, it's because we are agile and quick and, and I can compare this from my previous days at groups.
- [09:34]
A
Yeah. So you know a lot about volume trading and also the smaller, more independent side of things. But you say a small brand. But Claude Mayland is extremely visible on the constant. How many watches do you produce a year?
- [09:44]
C
Let's, let's again keep our feet on the ground. Extremely visible in Switzerland, it's true. Quite visible in Middle east, it's true, it was very visible in Asia, but we lost almost everything in Asia because of Kobe. Because most of the country in Micronesia and Asia, apart from Japan did apply the Chinese law. So retail doors closed. If you go to Hong Kong today or to Macau, you would be crying, it's empty. You land in Macau from the boat from Hong Kong and you see the first casino are all closed. So two out of three are closed because the Chinese law said don't spend money. And, and this is true everywhere.
- [10:33]
B
So.
- [10:34]
C
So yes, we are visible by choice. I didn't go to the States. That's my own choice.
- [10:41]
A
I get why though. Why did you not go?
- [10:44]
C
Simply because I relaunched Van Clef and Arpels and Bertolucci in the US and the US is fantastic market, but needs a media plan. And I didn't play lotto, so I didn't want, so I didn't vote. Fair enough. And really, honestly, what a joy for me to be totally independent with no constraint. USA would have me put me under pressure. It's kind of hard to get the right budget and it's even harder to get paid if you don't get the right budget. So I've drew USA outside. So I crossed also Caribbean, also Central America and also South America, because they all depend on. Most of them depend on the us but it's okay the rest of the world, it is original.
- [11:36]
A
So go on, tell us how many pieces you make a year.
- [11:39]
C
This is, you know, probably a subject that nobody talks about. You know, I can admit that we lost 67% of our volumes.
- [11:53]
A
Wow.
- [11:53]
C
So we are now maybe another 25% before we recover the Pre Covid business. Okay. So you have to be agile and quick and flexible.
- [12:05]
B
It's very interesting. Maybe I wanted to ask, what do you do in house and what's the price range? But I'm dying to know what does the big skeleton artist door to retail ads.
- [12:19]
C
So the big one, which is a 40 millimeter size, retails for 5,500 francs.
- [12:27]
B
Expat?
- [12:29]
C
No retail.
- [12:30]
A
Yeah.
- [12:30]
C
Including VAT? Including all these brands.
- [12:33]
B
Always mention without VAT.
- [12:34]
C
Well, I do mention VAT because this is the public price in Switzerland. So it includes our 8.1%.
- [12:41]
B
And what was the beautiful suspended micro rotod?
- [12:46]
C
So Boris, again, we have to be true. It's not really a micro rotor. It's just a very good idea to answer customer expectation. When we developed the Toltu 35 millimeters, we did it because the success of the large one, we had comments from the ladies, some ladies saying it is slightly too big. So we developed the 35 and we made a little survey at our scale. And the ladies came with three major points. Stop telling us that we don't like mechanics. We like mechanics. We like when something happens in the wash. And we like curves. So after deciding on that side, we choose the movement. And the movement is an ETA 2671. But it's pretty poor. It's just round. You say what poor? Doing boring. Poor Boring. Yes.
- [13:49]
B
Pouring quality. No, no, no.
- [13:50]
C
We buy only ETA because they are producing mass, they are serviced worldwide and they are super reliable and inexpensive. So that's why at Claude Milon we want them to buy a watch. Buying the savoir faire of Master of Collette. We don't pretend to be a manufacturer, but with this creation we had the great idea of moving the rotor up to mirror the dial, to open a very nice Ying and yang curve from 11 to 4 to reveal the balance wheel and the escapement. And redesign bridges to evoke a tulip here from Amsterdam. And this gives us a great opportunity to present a movement that we really developed and mastered. So what we do at Claude Melan is basically we buy the movement, we dismantle the movement, we decorate the movement, we cut out the movement. And of course we subcontract the milling and decoration by machine to respect and achieve the prices. And what does it retard? Abbot? That One is at 4800. The 35 with automatic movement. How big is the team at Colbert? Seven people. Amazing. Yeah. So you outsource a lot with great Network? Apparently. Well, we hire all the movements, we buy all our components in Switzerland, except the cases that we buy in Asia. And that's all really, because all the rest we buy hands strap, dies. If we have dies, everything is bought. Either invalid Jew or La Chaudefond Rijo. What is the price range of folk?
- [15:36]
B
Where do you start? Where do you end?
- [15:38]
C
We start at 1700 and we go up to 15,000.
- [15:43]
A
By the way, what do you know about your audience, your consumers? What is your most active demographic?
- [15:53]
C
I'm very sorry, but it's always a question that makes me laugh. Sorry. But really, honestly, there's everybody. Yeah, there's young. There's not so young there.
- [16:07]
B
So.
- [16:07]
C
So even now, I. I hesitate in telling you that this is a ladies watch. There is no more sex in a watch. You can see from many, many, many years ago, Asian girls wearing Pasha from Cartier and then Panerais. And so. So I would say that we have about 60% male and 40% ladies. What strikes me is that the young population loves skeleton. So whenever I am in a. In a retail store and I see youngsters, or even younger, like from 15 to 20, if they happen to see the watch, they want to take it out of the window and being explained.
- [16:51]
B
So.
- [16:51]
C
So this is very reassuring.
- [16:53]
A
Do you think that's because the skeletonization makes the fact it's mechanical very, very obvious. And for the younger generation, mechanical things are an oddity and they're very curious about that.
- [17:04]
C
Yeah. And it does appeal.
- [17:06]
A
So.
- [17:07]
C
So it's not, it's not a hazard that everybody is doing skeleton or open art or something to. To dive into the movement because it's fascinating. And as far as skeleton is concerned, it's not rare to see people saying, oh, I bought this, and then they take it out of the wrist. That's why we do only ardellon pieces. Is that so you can discover the back of the watch? Because the back of the watch is also extremely nice.
- [17:31]
A
That's beautiful. Adyon. That's a word we've not had on the podcast before. But it's the buckle, the style of the buckle, as opposed to like a butterfly clasp or a bracelet or anything like that. So it can easily be taken off and shown off. And they should be shown off because they are beautiful watches. And even though I don't often wear skeletons, I've always had a soft spot for what you've been doing because I love the reorganization of the movement. I think it's extremely elegant and satisfying to the eye. Could you give us an idea of what novelties you'll be bringing in the near future, or have you not even decided yet?
- [18:00]
C
Well, the near future could be watch and wonder. So, yes, we do have evolution, so just maybe that as a good summary, we've registered the sentence sculptur du temps. So you can imagine that we will be increasing and going further in reshuffling movements and creating a new atmosphere and a new target. I absolutely love it.
- [18:25]
A
Reshuffling movements. It's been a week of shuffling about. We've been in and out of the pavilion, we've been all around town. And obviously, we've spent most of our time here in the igli with wonderful guests like you, Philippe. Thank you so much for bringing our time here to a joyous conclusion. That is it, ladies and gentlemen. Please, like, subscribe, follow the podcast. We'll be back very soon.
- [18:49]
C
It.