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- [00:06]
Rob Nudds
Hi and hello, watch fans, and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nudds, our friendly neighborhood jeweler, Alain Ben Joseph, and renowned collector, watch lover, industry commentator Justin Haast. It's a pleasure to have you in the studio, Rob.
- [00:21]
Justin Haast
Good morning to you, sir. Alan, good morning to you. Thank you so much for having me on. Very, very kind.
- [00:25]
Rob Nudds
Obviously we always wanted to get you on the show to talk to you about the many operations you have going in the industry. But specifically today we are going to be talking eventually, after we've deep dived into your background, about an upcoming event that you are instrumental in organizing. But Justin, let's start from the very beginning. For any of our listeners who possibly have managed to avoid your name thus far in their watchmaking journey, could you tell us who you are, where you came from and how you got into watchmaking?
- [00:51]
Justin Haast
It sounds like. Do you remember Blind Date, that show, Cilla Black? Can you tell us a little bit about where you come from, Justin? Date, date number three, guys. No, listen, I apologize if you've seen the face and the mug and the voice, and I can only apologize. Ultimately, Rob, I'm just, I am just nothing more than a watch lover. I'm one of those guys that got given a watch for their 21st birthday and sort of has never left it alone and never left the watch world alone. I got given an Amiga Constellation, a 1968, I think Amiga Constellation from my dad for my 21st birthday and he got it from his dad. But I, I never met my grandparents and he didn't know where the hell it came from, so he just said he might as well have this. And, and then I sort of got into watches as a result of just a great experience with that watch. And, and, and, and it was at the time when the Internet was, was all about forums and I was, I was on the forums, I was on, on the IWC forum. I remember being one of the most seminal ones that I loved and it just, it just sort of carried me, carried me away from there. I, I, I originally was born in South Africa, but I live in, in London now and neither of my parents, no one in the family has ever been in, in, in watches of any kind of know, or jewelry or, or anything. So it was, it was very much from, from within. And I started writing, I started a blog which was about watches, but it was about craftsmanship and other things. And then I started writing for magazines as they were slowly, slowly coming, coming through. So revolution and, and, and and monochrome and, and, and Hidinki at one point or another as well. So I just feel very lucky. It's, it's been, it's been. It's not an easy one to explain to friends. All girls on dates either is to what I do. Taking photos of watches and talking about them every day is not the easiest one to explain. It certainly didn't convert for me. Unfortunately, my wife still doesn't think I've got a real job, but nonetheless, that's the story. Sorry, Rob. Long winded answer.
- [02:41]
Rob Nudds
No, not at all. We love long winded answers. It makes our life very easy. Did you ever get accused of being a spy on dates? Because that happens to me quite frequently or has done in the past whenever introduce myself to people. They say that's not a real job. Robots make watches. You lying super spy.
- [02:57]
Justin Haast
I haven't actually, no, not a spy. But I did date a girl once at school who's lovely, lovely, lovely girl. Ginny. Her dad, I was absolutely sure was a spy, dated her and my best friend dated her sister and at one point he found 17 different passports in the dad's drawer. Don't ask me how he ended up in the dad's drawer, but, but, but, but we're pretty sure he was a spy, but I have not been accused of one. I've been accused a lot of things, but not a spy.
- [03:23]
Rob Nudds
Well, I'm going to accuse you of something here. I'm going to accuse you of not just being a watch lover. You are incredibly active and incredibly present in the media space. I mean, you are the man behind the Watch annual and you've done 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 editions already and I guess 6 is coming out this year. Tell us about that and how you started, why you thought it was a good idea to undertake such a massive project.
- [03:47]
Justin Haast
I've always loved print, so as well as collecting watches, I collect books and magazines. I don't collect anything else really, but books, magazines and watches. I just love the feeling of magazines in the hand. I love flicking through a magazine on a Sunday afternoon and find it inspiring. And I also love the idea of collaboration. You know, I just think, I just think the watch industry is good at it, you know, from a product perspective. We've seen a lot of collaboration over the years, but I just love working with other people and, and so this project came about in lockdown, actually, it was just the start. We, we were planning it, my friend James Allen and I, who runs a creative agency in London called Birch, and we were planning actually to Do a city guide. We wanted to create like a monocle city guide for watches. And we quickly realized that the world was shutting down, it wasn't going to be the year for a city guide. And so we sort of pivoted and I said, well, you know the, there's a great book out there called the Wristwatch Annual which does showcase all of the new watches of the year. And it's a great reference for people to look back on the years of design and complication and brand innovation. But actually what it lacks and what it misses is it misses that personal touch. It misses the community aspect. It misses the commentary from people and the insights from people. So we sort of said, couldn't there be a user generated book every year from the community? I guess it was also sort of peak Instagram for us where every, everyone was, was really into posting photos on Instagram and sharing their stories and photos and it was lovely to see lots of different types of photography coming through. So ultimately we, we, we crowdsourced it. I think in that first year we had 40 different contributors from around the world. Then we had sort of 60, then 80, then a hundred and we sort of capped it there and we got a hundred watches, you know, 100ish contributors plus, minus. And you know, it just went from there. It was, it was something I was new to, you know, printing anything was, was new for me. So again I had to lean on talking about collaboration. Not only were the people very generous out there from the community who contributed images and edit, but also, you know, James thankfully is very, very good at when it comes to print products and printing things, which is a very difficult challenge in itself. And we won't even touch on the logistics of actually getting books out there to the world. But it was just lovely to work with lots of different people out there and get people's take and, and also to celebrate their skills. You know, nothing made me happier than seeing, you know, people around the world sharing the books and saying how nice it was to see their print, their, their photography and their writing in print.
- [06:18]
Alain Ben Joseph
And recently you've started a podcast as well. Please tell us more about that, Justin.
- [06:24]
Justin Haast
Geez, here we go. So we're talking about big shifts and big things going on in the watch world and you know, I feel like the media world is continually evolving and the one thing that's been impossible to ignore from my side at least has been substack and this idea that we are on the media side, we are submissive and reliant on brands and don't get me wrong, I'm fortunately in a position where I work with brands that I really love and I know you guys are as well. You know, we're very passionate about the independent brands, particularly that we work with. But it's also challenging because you want to be able to write things that are sometimes objective, sometimes things that are not positive. And so from a, purely from a media perspective, Substack has become really interesting because of course, you're asking the community to support you in your writing and in your podcasting and in your video, whatever it may be. And Chris Hall, a good friend of mine, he launched the Fourth Wheel, which, which was the first one here in the UK anyway. And then Johnny Davis has launched his and Tony Trainor, of course, with Unpolished. And so there's been a few that came before this. But Stephen and I, the ex editor in chief there at Hidinki from a few years back, you know, he was the first guy to commission me heading Key. I got on really well with him and we, we've always felt we worked well together. You know, I guess when I say that, I mean he's incredibly efficient. He does a great job. I just get pulled along. And he's also just, he's got a different view on watches to me. He's obviously in the States and I'm in the uk. The special relationship, as we say, or we did say before this administration in the us we can't get political, can we? We don't want to get political. But look, it's just been an amazing journey. We've done it for a few months now. People have been really, really responsive to it. It's allowed us to. It's allowed us to support, you know, the production of this podcast and production of this newsletter and to go out and bring hopefully exciting guests and articles and stories that are just a little bit different. Maybe the stories that you sort of would have read from Hidinki and others over the years that were non commercial in that sense. So, you know, Stephen wrote a story recently which people sort of really got behind, which was the journey that he's on as to whether he should sell his Explorer, you know, his Rolex Explorer that so many people associate with him. And, and it's not a story that would necessarily be commissioned by our colleagues out there who are producing big magazines because, well, it's just not a commercial story, but it's a really interesting one. So we want to speak to collectors and we're primarily in the business of speaking to collectors on journeys like us. Who buy, who buy lots of watches and want to buy watches and want to sell watches and want to find their own place collecting wise. That's kind of it.
- [08:54]
Alain Ben Joseph
Alan, listeners of the Realtime show know my stance on the term influencer. I'm very curious what you think, I feel when you hear the term influencer and does it apply to you?
- [09:10]
Justin Haast
Well, I've been desperate to get my ass out on more photos, but I've been told that it's just not a great sell. I've been desperately trying to do that. The reality is, you know, for a lot of people out there, I think because we're so deep in the trenches, we're in the, we're in the watch world, you know, our feeds inevitably will be mainly watches. We can talk about what's on your feed, Alan, later. It might not just be watches, it's just that you need to be an expert, you know, for me you've got to be an. It's not about the word influencer, it's about being an expert in your field, whatever that is. The word influencer, I think has been hijacked and ultimately is sort of useless in many ways. I certainly view myself and I'm constantly thinking to myself, how can you be more of that authority? How can you be more of that expert? Someone who knows what they're talking about, someone who really has a passion, interest in a very, very specific subject. If you're publishing something, you know, that could be a photo, it could be a video or something on, on Instagram, it could be on YouTube, it could be on Substack or, or wherever it might be. Are you actually educating? Are you inspiring? Are you, are you driving action? And are you that authority, you know, with genuine knowledge and insight? And I think the other word I would, I would throw in, there is context and this is something that only comes through years and years of graft. I remember Tracy Llewellyn who works at the Telegraph now, she's actually back at Revolution. She's a colleague of, of mine. She was my boss for a few years when I was at Revolution. And you know, that was a word that we talked about a lot because she had the experience in the industry, so she could. And this is when I first came into watches, when I was an online editor at Revolution. I couldn't really provide context. I could rewrite a press release, but actually I didn't know watches well enough. And that wasn't my fault, I don't think it was just. I didn't spend, I had not spent enough time with watches over the years, you start to build context which, which is to say you meet the people who make these things, you meet the designers and you handle a lot of the watches and you understand that, okay, this, this, this stamp, dial the stamp. Gear shadow is different to, to it. To a traditionally done gear shadow. And when we talk about finishing on a movement, what is an internal angle and. And what does it take to produce that? I just feel like it takes context. So that's a long answer. Alon to your question. I'm not, I'm not inundated. I'm not. I'm not particularly passionate about the word in influencer either, but I guess that's probably where I'm at. Where are you? Just I haven't been privileged enough to understand where you're at along with your influence. I get. I can imagine where you are. Tell me more.
- [11:32]
Alain Ben Joseph
I hate the term because influencing. It has a negative connotation. Obviously marketing is just that. But we are definitely on the same wavelength and frequency because Rob and I started this podcast and the real Time show is independent, it's non commercial, we don't sell anything and we love our independence. We're here to share the passion and knowledge about watchmaking. So I guess we are exactly at the same spot. Why I addressed this question is when the first time I've encountered the brand Justin has the enigma, the force was not only the big smile because you ooze passion and fun, which I love. You seem very down to earth, whereas I think your focus and your passion lies in auto luxury, so the finer things in watchmaking and. But you don't do this in a flexing way. It's all about the art of watchmaking or the French love to say the metier d' al, but why I've raised it. It's difficult to box you in. Whereas many people have issues boxing Rob and I separately and together in one box because we do so much. So that was the reason of my question. I want to use this as a segue, if I may. I wanted you on the show as well for a long time, as Rob said at the introduction. But we literally twisted your arm to come on the show today. And we're going to put out this episode as quick as possible because one of my favorite cities in the world is in London where you are at. And you guys together with two co founders are going to host the London Watch Week. And I was blown away because I love the idea. There's a lot of horological happenings in London. London is picking up and I'm very happy about that. Please tell us more about why you guys have started this. I won't call it a fair, but a platform for everything. Watchmaking in London.
- [13:38]
Justin Haast
Yeah, she's Elon affair would be a stretch too far. So this is our first year and I was saying to Rob before we started recording that this is my first sort of foray into events as such and it's, it's, it's a big, it's a, it's a big undertaking. I, I've been fortunate enough over the years to host a lot of events. I love hosting events within with brands from, from Vacheron to Piaget to IWC in their boutiques, talking to collectors, you know, having a really objective conversation. But I've never done something like this. I've never tried to organize it myself. I've invited guests, but I've never tried to do something like this. Lucy Cheese Wright is one of my co founders. Tom Exton, TGE Online is the other co founder. So there's three of us in total and Lucy got in touch with us probably a year ago and said, you know, I just feel like there's an opportunity in London. London is, as you say, a fundamental watch destination. We have some of the great retailers, we've got some of the great big brands present. Of course, we've got great history here and we've got a lot of watch lovers who are based here and of course a lot of people who travel to London as well, you know, so, so we, she sort of said, hey, there's some, there's an opportunity here. And she was behind QP many, many years ago. You probably came when it was at the Saatchi Gallery and she was really quite disruptive in the way she brought that to the table because she brought together brands that would never have normally been together in a beautiful location and got, you know, got had a, had a, had a great party at the same time. And I can remember it was pretty seminal in my discovery, discovery of a number of brands. I mean, I can remember vividly recsep sitting there by himself on a, on a, on a table, like a seated table, like a bar stool by himself with this little bit of merchandising behind him for, for a crevia and no one was speaking to him. You know, Roger Smith was on the other side of the room being sort of chatted to by everybody and. But Rexepp was sitting there, no one was speaking to him. And it was just one of those crazy moments, and then you've got Bremont next to him and it's like, you. We wouldn't see that today. So Lucy was like, could we do something again? Could we, could we find a way to create something a little bit different? And I said to her, I'd love to be involved, I'd love to help if I'm able to. But the way I see it is that we've got to look to others. And I think we've been led by Dubai, Dubai Watch Week. We've been led by Milan Watch Week. They've done amazing jobs, okay? They've been driven by retailers, specifically in those areas. We are not a retailer, you know, we are, we are absolutely nothing in comparison. We are a bunch of rogues coming together who love watches, who think we can do something. And the idea is, could we decentralize it? I don't think my, my, my suggestion to Lucy immediately was, I don't think brands are ever going to leave the bricks and mortar they've invested so much in. Alon, you know this better than anyone. You know, these bigger brands, these big group brands now, for example, are not going to leave. And that's fair because they've invested a lot of money in that. They want people to come to them. So could we take the party to them? That was the idea across the whole week. Could it work after Watches wonders? Could it be something that people would buy into? So we just started exploring it and, you know, thankfully, a few people have come out the woodwork and supported us. Now it's, it's got a couple of facets as well as being decentralized, decentralized to it, that, that I think make it different. We also want to support independence. We also want to support dealers. Dealers have had a horrible run of it over many years. We know that because they were, they were frowned upon. And then, of course, now we've seen acquisitions taking place across industry and suddenly, you know, Watch Wonder is not what people thought it was many years ago, the likes of Hidinki, the likes of Analog Shift and others. And so we wanted dealers involved, but we wanted the best. We wanted those that we bought from and we sold from. We wanted an event that we could go to ourselves, that we wanted to go to ourselves. So we've ended up in a situation where across a week, we've got lots of different things going on. And I have to confess, without Lucy's knowledge, and again, this was something Rob and I talked about before we started filming without, without Lucy's support, her knowledge, her expertise in the log of organizing an event, it would not be possible. It's happening in a few days time and we've got some amazing locations, some amazing partners and we've got, you know, well, geez, over a thousand people who've subscribed to the, to the tickets online that want to come and see things thankfully. So for example, we kick off with an evening at Bonhams on Tuesday 17 June. We've got talks going on between myself and Tom Chamberlain, the editor of the Rate magazine with the head of Watches, Jonathan Darricott at Bonhams. And Bonhams have been on an interesting journey in the last few years because they've, they've acquired a French, a Parisian auction house, they've acquired Burasmussen, an auction house in Denmark that I used to work for. They've acquired a Swedish one as well. So they're in a really interesting place. We're going to do some talks at Bonhams then they've got a big gala thing there with the Rake celebrating 100th edition anniversary and it's all about collaboration. So that's our first day on Tuesday. Then on Thursday we've got a gala reception with Zenith alongside that's an evening alongside an Independence Day which is taking place on Curzon street just, just next to the Saudi Embassy in, in town. Really lovely traditional building, beautiful big windows, great light, great coffee that will be served. And we've got the lights of Famel Hut to my knowledge have never been in London before, have never exhibited before. Lauren Ferri, one of my absolute favorite brands, Czapek, Ludwig Bois Anderson Geneva are launching a new watch for their anniversary year. Ressence Pragma, another brand who I don't believe have been in London before. So high end atelier, Wen Perle and Maramusi. So we've got a really nice mix of independents that some of whom have doors in London, some of whom don't but really an opportunity to see them all together at the same time and a lot of their leadership are coming over as well, which is super cool. We then on Thursday also got a Pragnel event. Pragnel do retail the likes of Ferdinand by Two and Grubel Foursea and Lauren Ferrier. So we're, we're again opening doors and bringing people in in a different way. So there's going to be a pop up there. They've got an amazing vault down there which is this insane thing that people who come along to that will be able to enjoy. Friday we've got an event with Aorus. They're launching a watch, a special edition watch at the event which is super cool. We've got my friend Chris hall doing a talk there with the CEO and the Dahl artist. And then in the evening on Friday as well, we're simultaneously on Savile Row at Drake's, one of my favorite clothing stores. And we're popping up with a few of my favorite dealers. We've got Somlo, Maunder, Watch Brothers London and Sub Dial who are going to be exhibiting some of their bits and pieces at Drake. So for me that encapsulates what we believe this event could be in the future which is bringing together different audiences in different environments, cross pollinating vintage watches, new watches, independent watches in environments that you wouldn't normally see them. And then, and then Saturday we've got back to Curzon street and we've got the additions of, of Tortoise Watches, Watches, Knightsbridge and Watch Collecting, the auction site. All joining those dealers for a whole day on Saturday at Curzon Street. So geez boy, that's, that's the long winded answer there. But yeah, it's not for the faint hearted there on the event stuff. It really isn't the logistics, the organization, the small details of things is just bonkers. Security, insurance transfers. Yeah, there we are guys. That's, that's sort of a, that's it in a nutshell if you will.
- [20:39]
Alain Ben Joseph
You got me fired up while listening to you. I immediately register for a ticket on London watchweekofficial.com so everyone listening and wants to attend. Tickets are free.
- [20:49]
Justin Haast
Yes.
- [20:50]
Alain Ben Joseph
Help me out here Justin. What they need to do on the website, do they register for individual events for the whole week? How does it work?
- [20:56]
Justin Haast
Yeah, so that's, that's one of the things we've been working through is, is by nature it's a little bit more convoluted. It's not just coming down for a Saturday but you go to the website, you go onto the ticket section, sign up for the tickets front and center, add to cart, get it done and then what will happen is one of the team will send you a follow up email with options to then reserve different moments across the week. And some of those moments actually have been already fully booked. So for example the Friday night at Drake's on Savaro, because of the capacity of the environment, we are fully booked there. There are some private events which won't be featured but you will get a prompt with a lot of different options for different moments across the week. And we really look forward to seeing everyone. I mean, it goes without saying that one of the great things about events, we live in a digital world and I speak to a lot of collectors out there every day on DMs, on Instagram. But actually getting together in person, you know, nothing beats that. Nothing beats, you know, discussing a case or, or whatever it might be in person, getting fired up together, as geeky as that might be.
- [21:53]
Rob Nudds
So we talked about a lot of the brands that will be attending the event, and there are some incredible names there. But let's just talk about your favorite brands, the brands that you have enjoyed wearing, enjoyed getting to know the histories that appeal to you, because your journey started with that Omega way back when. And you have had almost unfettered access, I guess, to some of the highest levels of horology ever since. And so after years of experience, which brands have left the greatest impression on you?
- [22:25]
Justin Haast
That's really interesting, Rob. Yeah, I, I guess I am quite loyal to a few brands. I mean, you know, I'm sort of falling back to my position now. The way that I explain this to my wife, like when she's like, oh, no, no, no, not another one. Or she'll, she'll butcher me for something that's coming that I'm loving. I'll say, check this out. And she'll be like, no, it's disgraceful. But she thankfully, these brands, and I'm saying, you know, the likes of Lauren Ferrier, the likes of Langer, the likes of Vacheron, the likes of iwc, I'm a little bit more, I would say I'm a bit more classical. You know, I like, I'm immediately drawn to dress watches. I think I'm immediately drawn to brands that have a design language that, that is different that, that, that has its own identity. And I guess I'm also trapped a little bit in this idea of, of old school romance and sort of old school elegance. You know, I had a sort of a mentor. He was a family friend, an uncle of mine that I used to help growing up. He was a designer, interior designer, actually. And he was always about sort of elegance and looking at colors and looking at balance and design. And I sort of was very lucky to be around him and I took a lot from that. And so naturally, watches like the 1921 from Vacheron, like the Lange one, like the Sport Auto from Nora Ferry, or the Classic from the Classic Case, you know, Watch round case, the Galley from, from Nora Ferry, those types of things speak to me. The first, my first love was the Portuguese, the IWC Portuguese chronograph. And so that's of where I'm at. But I, but I do, but I do find myself actually, you know, loving maybe just a few brands. I, I, I, I, I'm not a, I'm not a huge Rolex guy. My, my Rolex knowledge is very poor. I'm just naturally not drawn to, to Rolex. I'm naturally not drawn to Patek either, strangely, which is, you know, sacrilege. And I'm sure I'll get butchered in the comments for that. The same with the Amiga Speedmaster. Just, it just, it's, and I love this about watches, is we can get together and I really hope one of you guys is a huge Omega Speedmaster collector, because that's super cool. You know, I just, for some reason, it just has never spoken to me. But yet, but yet Renaissance speaks to me, you know, really bizarre, really strange, unlike anything else, but I just find it really interesting. So that's where I'm at. I've got, what have I picked up recently? Roman Gaultier, I think is really, really interesting. As the C from Ronan Gaultier, I'm absolutely hooked on the architecture that he finds interesting and the finishing. But I've also fallen in love more than just with names and brands. I fall in love with wearability. Recently, I'm really obsessed with, with wearability.
- [24:52]
Rob Nudds
That's an interesting thing for you to say to me, because I'm obsessed with trying to figure out the science behind wearability and visual impact and all these other strange, esoteric things that nobody else gives that much of a damn about. But when you get deep into the passion as we are, they start to become the most important thing. Tell me, do you think there's a consistent thread between the brands that you've fallen in love with in terms of aesthetics or technical prowess or history? Or is it just really a perfect storm that appeals to you? When something just works because of itself, what is it that you find most attractive?
- [25:23]
Justin Haast
I think the watch has to say something about you, right? So you need to see a synergy within that product that you connect with. And it might be because it's an oddball, it might be because it's, it's ostentatious, it's over the top, it's understated. I mean, I love Lauren Ferre for it's, it's, it's design codes. He, he's, he, he has an eye, I think, Lauren Ferry for design that no one else has in or world, which is an understatement and a delicateness to his designs that I have yet to encounter from anyone else.
- [25:52]
Rob Nudds
Going back to the London Watch week, you've got a great portfolio of brands presenting already, but which brands? Give me, say, three names would you like to add to this next year that you feel would elevate it or at least take it in the right direction? If elevate is the wrong word.
- [26:07]
Justin Haast
I should start by saying thank you to all the brands, any of them who might be listening. Thank you for taking a chance on us. Thanks for taking a risk because there's no two ways about it. Year one, it absolutely is a risk, particularly Zenith, because Zenith on this big anniversary, 160th anniversary year, they've decided to come on board and we are determined to over deliver for each and every one of the brands that have done that. We were very close and they were very, very respectful to us and they were very diligent and I think they're doing some of the most incredible work in the world right now. Watch wise is Chopard. I love the. It will come as no surprise, having listed the brands I've just listed that the Luc speaks to me a lot. The watches they launched this year at Watches Wonders were absolutely incredible. I'd love to have a breakfast. I'm calling Chopard out. I'm using this moment, boys, to call out Chopard. And I'm saying, guys, if you're listening, next year we need you to have a breakfast at your boutique. Because to me that would be the height of, of, of, of, of, of of a step forward and, and, and you know, elevating it to the next level. The elegance that would come the moment. It would just be a joy to be at their spot with some Luc watches.
- [27:12]
Rob Nudds
I mean, this is the moment. Use the platform for this perfect use of the real time show. Chopard, we need your breakfast. We need your Renadou lunch, beef and the Boo dinner.
- [27:21]
Alain Ben Joseph
Justin is going to Hollywood. No, Tiffany's at Breakfast at Tiffany's. But it's Breakfast at Chopard by Justin Haas.
- [27:28]
Justin Haast
Can you imagine? Well, you know, Tiffany seems to be making some moves in the watch world now and there's a bit of investment going in over there. So it would be. I'm calling out the Arnault, I'm calling out Tiffany now. Let's have a breakfast at Tiffany's. Chopard, step aside. No, no, guys, I'd be happy to have anything at Tiffany. I'd be happy to have anything at Chopard. There are so many brands out There I admire, but, but particularly Chopard at the moment. I just feel that would be a really lovely addition to the show and for the week. And, you know, we've got people coming in from overseas, we've got collectors coming in from Paris and we've got collectors coming from, from, from the Netherlands actually, as well. So I feel like one day, you know, I'd love to just be a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of what Dubai Watch Week's achieved in its ability to pull people. Because I'm going out to Dubai Watch Week later this year. I believe Dubai Watch Week might well be as interesting as Watches Wonders moving forward. When it comes to novelties, I believe most brands showing there are going to show something fresh and that, you know, that shows the commitment they have to that show and to, to what we have moving forward. I actually fundamentally believe there'll be, I think there's going to be a Watch Week in every major city. I think in the future we'll see a Watch Week in every major city because we need, we need, we need to drill down further. It can't just be one big show across the year. I think we need to draw down further into each and every market. Big call. I know.
- [28:41]
Rob Nudds
I think there's probably scope for it and I think that's exactly what we need to get these watches into the hands of people that are so used to seeing them through the screen, but not in person, because it makes all the difference. Like you said, when it comes to wearability, who's to know what a watch really feels like until you get it on your wrist? So I do think that's the future and I think that you're certainly doing your bit by pushing ahead with London Watch Week. Now, you mentioned that you obviously had the assistance of Lucy and other team members propelling this to fruition. But what were the strangest things that you learned as somebody that has never really organized an event on this scale before, Things that you never imagined you'd have to consider in terms of, I don't know, you mentioned security before, but things like that, Things that only you would know.
- [29:19]
Justin Haast
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's not, it's not entirely strange, is it, really? It's. But, you know, understandably, people want to know where they are in a room and who they're next to. You know, it's a classic watch world thing. I mean, if you go into any big retail environment, you know, which brand is next to which brand that is, you know, for people outside of the industry that's always something to note and is interesting. So you see that at the big trend trade shows for sure, I think. Do you know what? This is the strangest thing. This is the strangest thing, Rob. Zenith, of course is part of lvmh. One thing I didn't appreciate and I don't think any of us in the team appreciated, but of course makes sense is the expense involved in LVMH champagne. So we are going to have Moet being served at the Zenith evening at Minotti. By the way, I should have said Minoti, a furniture company, high end Italian furniture company and we're going to be serving moe. Now please don't drink too much because we are paying for the moe at a very, very reasonable price. Kindly from the people from lvmh. But to think that everything in the LVMH world is connected and so it wasn't something that we foresaw was that of course we would be serving an LVMH branded champagne at the reception. But it's those types of little things that you don't quite appreciate until you get into the nitty gritty that. And of course it will be wonderful when it hits the lips for anyone who comes along.
- [30:39]
Alain Ben Joseph
Funny, usually when I do LVMH events, I, I serve clico.
- [30:44]
Justin Haast
Ah, okay.
- [30:45]
Alain Ben Joseph
Interesting orange label. Right, so we're Dutchies. It was just a little inside joke. What other bottlenecks did you guys encounter organizing? This just. It's very interesting this insights you're sharing.
- [30:56]
Justin Haast
I mean, I mean, I mean, look, I think, you know, fundamentally we just knew year one, like anything, it's going to take some convincing to get brands to buy in. You know, Alan, you know, from a retail sort of background, you know the challenges that go on there and these brands are understandably very sensitive. Some of them have been around for, you know, hundreds of years and so they want to maintain that and they want to be very delicate and considered that. You know, for example, the Curzon street location is absolutely stunning when you go into it. It is traditional. It's got a frontage, you know, you walk in through the main door on the street, you go up to the first floor. It's traditional, you know, British architecture, architecture style. This huge staircase, beautiful cornicing and, and big room, big volume in the room. But the photos never did it justice. So all we had to send a brand to say, by the way, you know, these independent brands on the Thursday when they're going to be in there, you know, we, we didn't have the best way to exhibit what that room would actually look like in reality. And we did have one brand that just said, hey, you know, we're not absolutely sure on the environment. And we were urging them to maybe come over and have a look because in truth, it's so much better in person than it is in the photos.
- [32:06]
Alain Ben Joseph
What struck me as not odd but interesting is that there is no British brand affiliated with the Week yet.
- [32:16]
Justin Haast
That, Alan, is a very good point. I don't have an answer for that specifically, apart from the fact that I think we've just been scrambling and there'll be a lot of entrepreneurs out there and a lot of founders of different types of businesses out there that will recognize that. You know, I love this phase of anything, which is just complete carnage. You know, we're flying around, you're trying to, you know, there's WhatsApp messages coming in, there's pictures coming in here, and then there's messages on the emails. There's DMs, there's. You're trying to organize so much. So I think in many ways we've probably taken our eye off the ball as far as engaging specifically with local partners. I mean, I got on really, really well with, with. With Fears with Studio Underdog. I think the answer to that. This is actually the answer. So we took the. We took our eye off the board to some extent. We've also got our friends at Oracle Time who are organizing an event this weekend. And I want to make this very clear that they are organizing a tremendous event that's going on on this Saturday. And they are going to have the likes of Christopher Ward and others and a lot of smaller brands who are British are going to be there. And what we didn't want to do was. And by the way, we had no idea that the guys were setting that up. I've written for them over the years, really like them. And so we didn't want, you know, we didn't want to double up. There was no reason for us to then have the brands that are exhibiting there exhibit with us a few days later. So we wanted to make it a distinct difference in experience for people. And then actually our friends at Time and Tide who opened up in London recently, they've got an event on the Wednesday night with. Oh, Thursday night, sorry, with. With. With Braunpan. So we just wanted to make sure that we weren't crossing. Crossing swords, for lack of a better term, with anybody else. But I would love to have, you know, I would love to have some British brands represented next year. And we just have to see how the show continues to evolve. By definition, as you touched on earlier, Rob, you know, my interest is in a particular segment of the industry which tends to be, unfortunately for my bank account, the higher end of the segment. And so therefore I think our opportunity is to continue to focus on that which is, you know, the higher end of the market.
- [34:18]
Alain Ben Joseph
You just gave a perfect intro to my follow up question which is have you turned down brands? Meaning do you have a baltage of a minimum of price level, quality level, brand level, prestige that London Watch Week gives a platform to?
- [34:35]
Justin Haast
No, is the answer. But we were very conscious in who we went out to, so we, we did have a strategy. Although I say it's carnage and it has been. We, we definitely had a view for how the format should work. The format should work and the brands that we wanted to go out to. And so in that sense we had a strategy and we haven't said no to anyone in particular. I say that, I say that, I say that that's probably true. There was one conversation which happening which didn't feel quite right. Two, in fact, two conversations which one, one. One dealer and one brand that didn't feel quite right. And we didn't say no, but we just didn't sort of, we didn't end up completely pursuing it. It sounds like I sound like that guy's trying to break up. You know, when someone tries to break up with you and they're like, you know, it's not you, it's me and I really want you to be happy one day. It was kind of that breakup moment with, with two, one dealer, one brand. It was sort of ambiguous and it was very positive, if I can say that.
- [35:34]
Rob Nudds
I think you answered that question superbly, to be honest, because it's a tough one to be asked because, you know, you don't want to put barriers up too harshly. But, but realistically, if you're going to have a brand like Lauren Ferrier there or Chapek there, you know, Ludovic Bauer, there's got to be like a point where it's like, okay, well Steinhardt can't be here, you know, just sort of clashes. It just doesn't make any sense, you know, And I don't think they should be offended by that statement as well. They may love to stand next to Lauren Ferrier, but it's an absolute joke if they did because they're not on the same page. So it does have to be a bracket. And the fact that you, you were just distinct in who you approached and then worked on the dynamic between you and the brands to figure out whether or not it was going to be a fit. Because the last thing you need when you're trying to get something off the ground with many brands and many egos in the mix, is the problem brand that's going to kick off about everything, that's going to, like, demand things of you when you can't possibly see to those demands when you have other brands to take care of as well. So nice way to do it, I think, and well answered. I have a question which will take us in many directions, I'm sure, and it may be the last question, depending on how long your answer is. And it can be as long as you want, because we've got time. You probably haven't got time because you've got to go organize an event in one of the busiest capital cities in the world. But we're all right. My question is, after all these years in watchmaking, having had so much experience in the metal with these pieces, is there any desire on your side to start your own brand? And if you did, what would you like to see from it?
- [37:00]
Justin Haast
The answer, Rob, is no. The answer is no. Because I am fulfilled with what is out there. I'm fulfilled with what's out there already, both in terms of new watches that have been released in recent times, but also this incredible inventory of watches that exist out there in the world. I love diving into the rabbit holes and into the darker corners of the collecting world. I've got a watch on right now that probably speaks to that, which is this Ralph Lauren, the slim classique that Piaget made. The movement for and is. Is just stunning. And so for me, I'm fulfilled with what's out there. And both in terms of my design desires and my. My technical desires, and I guess you could probably call sort of historical designs as well. I'm excited about what's to come. I just personally don't feel that I need to be contributing a brand to that. I also feel that the. It's very hard work to start with. That doesn't put me off, but it's also very, very hard work. And it's no surprise that we have brands in the watch world. We are blessed to have brands that are over 100 years old, over 150 years old, over 200 years old, 260 years old. And that is something quite special. I'm not saying that innovation can't be found because of course, we see that with the likes of debut and MB&F. And O work and restaurants and others. And more recently, we're seeing, I would say, innovation from a finishing perspective, from a. From an artisanal perspective with the likes of Simon Brett and Berneron and others. But, but there are just, you know, sometimes you've just got to. You've just got to recognize your own skill set and you've got to recognize what you can bring to the table. I feel like I can bring an energy and a passion to what people are doing. When I see something I like, I feel I'm best positioned like anyone in a football team or a rugby team. If you weigh 130 kgs, you know, I love rugby, but, you know, this could apply to any sport. But if you weigh 130kgs and you love smashing into people, you need to play in the front row. If you're very, very quick and you're a ball player, you should be playing in the back line. So for me, my best position is actually not to be building a brand necessarily, but my. My best position, I think, is to be getting people excited about what brands are doing. And so that's probably where I'm at now. That doesn't completely tell the whole story because I wouldn't be against being part of designing something from a brand that I love being part of that, you know, being, being in addition to that, which I haven't had the pleasure of doing yet from a watch perspective. But I've done a few other product collaborations over the years, but I wouldn't be against doing that. Just to talk to what we've said already about things like wearability. The best example I can think of right now is this Lauren Ferrero the sport. Also in titanium that I love wearing. I can't take it off. And I'm curious as you are, as to why I can't take that off. Why is that a watch that I keep coming back to? Why do people keep coming back to Rolex every day? You know, why is Relics so wearable? That's really interesting to me. So I wouldn't be against contributing to a broader team. But again, it plays into this story of mine. That's probably a narrative of collaboration. I'm okay to collaborate with people. I don't have a desire to build my own brand as such. There we go. I hope that answers the question, Roblo.
- [40:12]
Alain Ben Joseph
It does. Very much so. Elegant answer. As elegant as you are, it begs the question, because you put it very eloquently that the market you're very pleased with. I will reverse the question. Are There too many brands. Dear Justin. And do you think we'll see less brands in the coming years?
- [40:32]
Justin Haast
No doubt, no doubt. You know, we have gone back now to a collector's market. You know, I'm grateful for it, but. But it means that there are more watches available. There's more interesting watches available, prices. I'm talking about the secondary market, particularly here. When you look at them, you think, o, okay, that's, you know, that's, that's a bit more reasonable. The challenge, of course, is that we're seeing the opposite from the primary side. We're seeing watches at retail now starting to become quite intimidating, you know, not, not, not open for everybody to be involved in, you know, scary numbers. You know, we can see that with the Urban Jurgensen launch recently, for example, not suggesting that. That there isn't value there, but. But it's a big number. It's, it's. And it's. And it's right, you know, it's. It's for a particular part of the market. It's not for everyone, but it's a big number. We're talking big numbers. I think we've got too many watches, generally speaking, out there alone. I'm worried. I get worried about the number of new watches coming out. I think we've got too many coming out. I think there are too many watches out there in the market right now, and that's softening the industry a little bit. We remember back to 2008 when brands had to buy back and get rid of watches just to maintain the equity in the brand, because we know how important that is in the watch world is people feeling like they can walk into a Jaeger Lecoultre or a Vacheron or. Or a Panerai and feel like this is. Or a Tag or Zenith and feel like this is an elevated experience. And I think we will lose some. You know, Rob and I were talking about, you know, his work, and he works with a lot of small independents. There needs to be a reason for them to exist. They need to have a story that gives them a reason to exist. Now, that might be in the design, that might be in the technical. It might be in the founder's story. But I fear that we are seeing too many coming in. And I get the press releases, you know, I get the press releases coming through from the media side. And I'm looking up thinking, okay, well, what is this? I'm looking at the watch. I'll always say thank you. I'll always email the PR team back and say thank you for sending me this, but I can't make any commitment here to covering it because there's nothing here that really speaks to me. So, yes is the answer. We've just. We have got too many brands, and I think we will lose some. You know, the big brands are realigning themselves and they're finding a new way forward. And if that's happening with the big brands, then it's definitely going to be happening with the smaller brands. It's very hard to. To keep people engaged. It's very hard to continue to tell stories. And so I think, yeah, this year and into next year, we will see fewer brands surviving, unfortunately. But actually, I think the further, further you get down the line with watches, you, you, you, you know, you become more and more demanding of what a brand is delivering to you. You need value and you need design, and you need something different. You just need something different, you know.
- [43:01]
Rob Nudds
Immediately, don't you, when you reach out to a new brand and you ask, like, why does this watch exist? And then when they take a deep breath, you're like, okay, this is. This is a watch that shouldn't exist. It should be very simple. It should be straightforward. When it's a story about, like, a rock your grandfather found on a particular beach, you know, on a blustery day in March in 1876, and the color of the rock inspired him, you're like, okay, this is horseshit. Like, there's. There's nothing here. You've got no reason to be exist.
- [43:31]
Justin Haast
But, you know, you know, if you think back to. I had a really great experience with Benoit from restaurants years and years ago when he first launched the brand, and they're a pretty extreme version because, of course, you can tell immediately it's different to anything else. But he said, I'm just. He said, I just can't believe we have to teach children how to read time. You know, it doesn't make sense to me. We should make something more intuitive. And so that's why the dial is such, you know, a rotating dial where the hands don't cross and you have this immediate readout. We know what hour we're in generally, but we don't know what minute. So we want a very clear minute readout, not a very clear hour readout. So we could argue about that all day long, whether that's true or not. But ultimately, there's a reason. He's got a mission to fight for. There's a mission there that he is delivering, and he's continued to deliver that till. Till today. So I'm with you entirely, Rob.
- [44:15]
Rob Nudds
I think that's a brilliant, brilliant example of a brand that's done things differently and communicated those differences very effectively. And what a wonderful coup that they will be at the very first London Watch Week official dot com. There you go. That's the website. If you want to go check it out, go to London watchweekofficial.com and you can go and see the brands that are going to be present in there. You can get yourself some tickets and you will have, I'm sure, a wonderful time rolling around England's capital and sampling some of the finest horology the world has to offer and maybe even meeting Justin Haast in person. Is that a possibility, Justin?
- [44:49]
Justin Haast
I'm afraid so. That is a byproduct. That is a byproduct of this event. I will be there almost entirely.
- [44:55]
Rob Nudds
Well, that's a recreational hazard that you'll have to deal with, I guess. Justin, thank you for your time. We really appreciate you popping in to talk to us, despite the oncoming event and all of the jobs that you've got to take care of before it all kicks off. It was a great pleasure. If any of our audience have any questions for Justin or would like him back on the show, which I'm sure they will, then please get in touch with us via the usual channels. You can contact Alon or I via our email addresses, either Rob or Alon show via the official website www.therealtime.show or via the dedicated Instagram handle @therealtime show. You can contact our other hosts, David and Scarlett, via their Instagram handles either at D A V A U C H E R for David or at S C A R L I N T H E S H I R E SCARL in the Shire for Scarlet. We'll be back soon with more top quality watch content and interviews with the industry's finest. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.