← The Real Time Show
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- [00:06]
A
Hi and hello, Watch fans and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nudds. Today I'm flying solo and joined by the creative director of Pauline Watches, based in Glasgow, Imogen Ayres. Imogen, welcome to the show.
- [00:20]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [00:21]
A
Where to start? You've been in this design world for a long time, possibly even longer than your resume would suggest. So I want to go right back to the beginning. I want to go back to Baby Imogen to find out where it was that you discovered your creativity and what kind of hobbies did you apply it to when you were a kid.
- [00:39]
B
So I was always obsessed with drawing as a child. I think like me and my siblings and whole family basically are quite artistic and I always thought that I would be an artist more than. I probably didn't know what a designer was when I was a child, but I went to uni with the intention of studying illustration and then got into graphic design as I realized that I didn't want to be a fine artist and prefer having a brief so. And then type design and then it just kind of specialized from there. But yeah, I always had been drawing since I was tiny.
- [01:14]
A
What was it specifically that pulled you away from fine art and towards graphic design? Did you enjoy the more structural element of it or was there something else that appealed to you?
- [01:23]
B
It was, yeah, it was the structure. So I did a course which involves. So it's called communication design and you do illustration, graphics and photography. I went with the intention of specializing in illustration. I did two weeks of it and I thought, I can't do this. It's like coming up with briefs that are about yourself. And I just felt too, yeah, I couldn't do it. And so I switched into graphics and I realized that you can employ a lot of the elements of illustration within graphic design. So a lot of the kind of more handcraft parts I really enjoy. But you can have a graphic design brief and sort of put your own illustrative spin on it. I think that's what I really enjoyed, fusing the both together.
- [02:06]
A
So you alluded to finding it either uncomfortable or difficult to put too much of yourself into a project. Is that something that you can do more effectively through graphics design? On. Should we say on. On a low key level?
- [02:25]
B
Yeah, I would say so. I think, yeah. You have a client in graphic design and you're sort of solving a problem rather than just saying like, this is my vision of the world or what. Yeah. Something about yourself.
- [02:40]
A
Has that changed at all? As your career's progressed, are you able to or keen to put more of your vision of the world into the work that you do still? Maybe not so literally so that people are like, oh, that' what Imogen thinks. But maybe through your typographical work, people can see what it is that you feel.
- [02:57]
B
Yeah, I think so. I think it just comes out in a more natural way maybe. Yeah, your, your influences and sort of historical references can, can show that in a more subtle way.
- [03:11]
A
I mean, you've been going quite a while now. You're nearly 10 years out of university. So what was it like finding your first jobs in the design world? How did you do it?
- [03:23]
B
So my first job in the design world was for Polin. So yeah, it was my first job out of university and it was a recommendation from someone that I did an internship. Um, so I kind of just never left or I left but didn't fully disengage. So, yeah, it's been, it's been a long time. It's been my whole adult career really, within the watch world.
- [03:48]
A
So this was a recommendation from somebody that either thought you'd be a good fit for the culture of the company or for watch design, or watch typeface design specifically.
- [03:57]
B
Yeah, it was, it was originally just typeface design. It was bespoke numerals and this was sort of a year, two years into Poland or maybe maybe a little more, maybe three years into Poland's life. And they'd only ever done like non numeric watches before, so they decided to get someone in to do type design and then started doing dials and then it just kind of grew arms and legs. And that was also the start of anodyne. So I got in there right. Right at the beginning of that journey.
- [04:27]
A
So. Right. So anybody that doesn't realize this, Aldain and Paulin are intrinsically linked. They are sister brands effectively. And you have worked for both of them since 2016 creating typefaces. Have you done all of the typefaces for an ordain?
- [04:43]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've done all of them.
- [04:46]
A
Well, that's incredible. Do you have a favorite?
- [04:48]
B
Yeah, I think I do. So I really like the Model 2 numbers and we've got a new version of those which are coming out soon. And I also really liked the ones that we used on the Hidden Key collaboration, the Sunburst style. I think they were really fun.
- [05:04]
A
I absolutely agree. I love the Model 2 numbers. They are some of my favorite numbers in the entire industry. What is it like designing a typeface for A watch. Are there any things that you need to be aware of? Practical things really, I mean, that change the way that you actually go about the design itself. So I mean, when you apply numerals, pad printed numerals to a watch face, do you have to account for any material idiosyncrasies? For example, I remember Lewis said to me once, that's Lewis Heath, whose episode of the Real Time show you can listen to if you scroll way, way, way, way back. He was one of the first guests ever. I think he said to me something about the bleed of the inks they originally tried to use on the enamel dials on the, on the flux surface was too much and it wasn't crisp and precise. And I think he said you ended up using whiskey bottle ink or something like that. Does that affect your design process from the get go?
- [05:59]
B
It does, yeah. So I think that they've got the system pretty well down now so that you don't have to worry about it too much. There's something that, yeah. That I do think about at the very start of designing numerals. You don't want to have like really tight corners and there's like a minimum line thickness obviously that you also have to account for. But there's more. So more than printing, it's more other precise processes that have limitations. So if we were to do applied or champlain enamel at any point, then that would have even more limitations. But I kind of, I do actually, as I said about going to design, I do enjoy having a brief and I enjoy having quite strict limitations set. So using that as your starting point is sometimes quite an interesting way of designing something.
- [06:51]
A
You sound like a perfect fit for the watch industry. You're also echoing my personal sentiment about watchmaking. What I love about it is you have to be creative and expressive within very tight constraints, using a minuscule canvas to tell a story. What was it that inspired. Let's stick on the Model 2 numbers, specifically, what inspired those numbers? Did you, did you just sit down with a pen and paper and start sketching? Or are there elements of the world around you hidden in those numbers somewhere?
- [07:20]
B
So actually Lewis had a reference for those ones. So for Anne Ardain, all of the numbers have come from a similar starting point. So we try and have that a kind of thread visible throughout the whole series. So for the model one that was map typography, which was often hand drawn and had old maps often combined like many different styles of typographies really seamlessly. And I found that really inspiring for the model one, and then for the model two, we sort of took that same sort of silhouette. They have quite a similar proportion and similar angles. But we put in these sort of cuts, cuts in the thicks and thins, which was inspired by an old alarm clock, I think, of Lewis's, or an old piece of machinery, which is. I also often really like logos and typography on kind of more industrial, industrial references, which is interesting, but they often have really, really good logos and good type.
- [08:26]
A
Can you think of any of those logos right now? Because we have. You won't believe this, but within our podcast community we have an inordinate number of tractor fans. So it's a bit of a running joke that for the real die hard listeners of a Real Time show, we call it the Real Tractor show because we talk about tractors all the time. And so there's. I don't know what's wrong with us, but we love these massive old farm machines that have these great logos which nowadays maybe wouldn't even make it off the drawing board. People would even say they're too basic or the spacing's all wrong. But there's something about them, this old school industrial design which still appeals and still speaks to us. Can you think of any of the ones that you really, really love?
- [09:09]
B
Yeah, I think probably my favorite logo in the world is the Bifur logo, which is always on bins. It's so good.
- [09:16]
A
Yeah, yeah, that's a cool logo. I almost see it a little bit in the Paulin typeface.
- [09:22]
B
Yeah, maybe. Maybe it was an influence.
- [09:27]
A
All right, so you mentioned on the model one that the typography is inspired by cartographical print and that maps, old maps especially, were able to mix several different styles of font together effectively. Now, I'm not a graphic designer, I'm occasionally asked for my opinion on fonts and mixed fonts on watch dials for different elements of the dial. Obviously the. The word mark, the model name, perhaps the minute track, the hour markers. Are there any tricks or tips even you could give the audience as to how one can effectively mix different typefaces without creating a dog's dinner?
- [10:10]
B
It's quite a skill, really. I don't know if there's a sort of cheat sheet. I think designing your own is obviously a way to ensure that there's kind of cohesive thread. So with the model 1 minute track and hour numerals, they have like a very similar proportion and yeah, those angles again are echoed. But then we've just really simplified the minute track so they're a monolinear weight, whereas the hour numerals have a lot more contrast and thicks and thins and more detail. So that's like a really surefire way of ensuring it. But then I think if you're buying typefaces or finding typefaces from other resources, it's good to look at a single foundry and sort of pick from their back catalogue.
- [11:01]
A
So I might be searching for rules that don't exist in design, but have you, over the duration of your career, created for yourself at least certain principles that you follow so that there's a consistent thread running through all of your work personally? So do you have a style where in, let's say another 10 or 20 years, when the whole watch industry knows about your work with Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin, they can go, okay, this, this is an heirs dial. This is what it looks like. This is what she always espouses in her designs. Is there something like that or do you just tackle each brief individually and remove yourself from it as best you can?
- [11:41]
B
That's an interesting question. I don't think I have a particular style, as you can kind of tell from the contrast between aesthetics and Paul and Ann Ardane. I think that's what's really fun about working with both of them, is they're so different. But I really love to have found a sort of historic reference. But then that could be, you know, that could be anything, really. So I think there's a huge variety and not necessarily instantly recognizable. It's an interesting question, not one I'd really thought about before.
- [12:14]
A
Well, thanks. I do try to ask interesting questions every so often. I haven't got 100% strike rate, but I'm doing my best. So let's talk about Paulin then, because we touched on an ordain a little more heavily at the start there. The Paulin fonts are also incredibly identifiable. I would say they're essential to the identity of the brand. And certainly one of the first things I think of when I think of the watches in general. What is the inspiration for those? What inspired you to have the double digit 2, 4, 6 and 8, which is something I like for visual balance, but is not all that common in the industry. And do you also do the clock fonts?
- [12:52]
B
Yes, I do. So that was. The clock font was our first bespoke type. So the first thing that I designed for Polin. So that was on original collection of watches that we don't stock anymore, but we are thinking about revising that font. And so that was a kind of art deco Y inspired. So nod to Glasgow and Charles Rennie Macintosh. Um, and then the current series, as we call that, the Geo font. And it was inspired by a modernist graphic designer called Wim Krul. And he, he does amazing work. Do you know him?
- [13:30]
A
His name rings a bell.
- [13:31]
B
Is he.
- [13:31]
A
Does he Dutch?
- [13:32]
B
Yes, I think so.
- [13:34]
A
I have a feeling, and this is. I may be proved wrong here, there was definitely a Vim that used to share the office next to Fratello's old office. You know Fratello, the magazine? The watch magazine. I worked for them for three years and when I first started we had this awful, pokey little office above a supermarket on the outskirts of the Hague. And for years the guy that had the office next to them was Vim something or other graphic designer, famous typographer. So I think it's the same guy.
- [14:04]
B
That's crazy. Wow.
- [14:06]
A
The watch world is a small place. Talking of the watch world, you've been in the watch world for the. Well, yeah, like you said, the entirety of your post university career. Did you have a feeling or love for watchers before you were given the tip to apply for the job at Paulin? Or is that something that has developed since or maybe hasn't?
- [14:28]
B
I wasn't particularly interested in watches. No. I'd never really got on my radar. I didn't know that there was such a sort of huge industry. But I've definitely, I've definitely grown a love for them since. I think it would be hard not to after being. Being around them for nine years, having.
- [14:49]
A
Been in the industry now for that long. Do you look outside of the briefs that land on your desk and find inspiration in other watch typefaces? Do you have particular favorite brands that you go to for inspiration or is that not something you. You dare to do for risk of being influenced?
- [15:04]
B
Perhaps not really for typography. I definitely have influences in other areas of watch design. Like I think everybody at Arnaud Poland has quite a shared love of vintage watches and like we all love like a Longines or the old Breitlings, but I wouldn't. Yeah, never really look at old watches or other watches for typography, that. So I would say my references come from elsewhere in the design world and I still. So I'm. I'm only part time on football in an ordain and I still work in other sectors of design for the rest of my time. So I work in exhibition design and I do a lot of bespoke typography for other things. So I Think probably those references all kind of feeding into each other and influencing different areas of my work.
- [15:57]
A
Oh, so you're a gun for hire. That's interesting to know, I'm sure, because the Real Time show's got a bit of a reputation for connecting designers with one another and setting up designers with other brands. So you might just have got yourself a new job. I won't tell Lewis. Don't worry. Aside from looking at watches for inspiration, which is not something you necessarily do, do you like to look at watches for yourself now? Are you a fan? Do you have favorite brands, any watches that you aspire to own or already have bought for yourself?
- [16:24]
B
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not a collector at the moment. I have a few, obviously I have a few polins, but I've kind of been spending. So I started doing shows this year. Just did the Time and Tide British Weekender and it's definitely getting to look at other. Other brands in the flesh is definitely so inspiring me to start collecting. But I think I've always loved the Cartier tank. I think a Cartier would be a great one to have in the collection, especially the old, older ones. And for contemporary runs. I really like Farah as well. I think they're great.
- [17:06]
A
When I think of Farah, I think primarily of color, like an interesting use of color, the willingness to pair colors that I think go beautifully together, but maybe more conservative watch lovers find a bit jarring. Is that something that appeals to you as well, or is it more the form of the watches, the dial layouts, typography itself that you like?
- [17:26]
B
It is a bit of everything. But, yeah, the color is definitely something that always stood out to me.
- [17:31]
A
When you design in a typeface, do you have an idea in your head of how it would best be presented? So, for example, would you ever find yourself in a position where you would say to either Paulin or Ann Ardain, look, this typeface is great, but I don't think that it works as a light typeface on a dark background. I know it's a really basic example, which probably makes no sense, but you know what I mean? Is there a way, Is there sometimes moments that you feel, okay, this typeface would be great in this scenario, but it shouldn't be applied here in this way. Can color affect that at all?
- [18:02]
B
Yeah, I would say it's usually not color. It's usually more about materials and sort of production processes. And color is usually usually the last thing that we look at. I mean, I can think of one example. When the Color has been really influential in the design, but it's not out yet, so can't talk about that one.
- [18:24]
A
Oh, brutal. Brutal. When does it come out? Whatever it is you're alluding to, I.
- [18:29]
B
Think it'll be quite soon. I think it will be in the next year.
- [18:31]
A
In the next year. Okay. Right. If it was going to be a couple of weeks, I'd say tell me what it is and that we won't put the episode out until it's debuted, but we better wait. So something new coming from which of the two brands is this coming from?
- [18:42]
B
That one's for an Audain.
- [18:44]
A
That one's for an Audain. Okay, well, everyone should keep their eyes peeled on both brands because interesting stuff is happening in both spots. So we've asked about your favorite typeface for an ordain, but when it comes to Pauline, what's your favorite model?
- [18:57]
B
All the current models except the collaborations, I use the same typeface, but I definitely have a really soft spot for the small modal. So the manual modal, I think it's got. The case is so nice. It wears really, really nice on the wrist. And I love the new. The two new colorways that we did. So the slightly more neutral ones with the luminescent dials. So I think it would have to be the black one of those.
- [19:27]
A
Very smart. Yeah. The black one is extremely striking. I'm still obsessed with the Neo, I have to admit. I love it. Just the standard Neo is my favorite. I love the crown size for the case. It's one of those things that I have a personal obsession with. Large crowns, like oversized crowns. I think I'm probably in a vast minority, but it just really speaks to me when I see that. Is there anything about the watch case and maybe the crown, maybe the bracelets or whatever that you have a personal leaning towards yourself? And are you ever consulted on the case design as well as the typography?
- [20:03]
B
Yeah, so I kind of often sketch at the early stages of the cases. Like maybe Lewis will have an idea and he'll come to me and we'll sort of do a sketch together, and then that goes to our production. Our. I'm project designer, so I'm often designed in the cases, but I usually have a brief for that. And is there something particular that speaks to me again, just vintage watches, to be honest, like maybe more military style vintage watches?
- [20:36]
A
Well, like field watches, like the Dirty Dozen, or like a modern Vertex or something along those lines?
- [20:42]
B
Yeah, biotech cases are great. They're a really good example do you.
- [20:47]
A
Ever fantasize about designing every single element of a watch from the ground up that's completely different from anything you've done before? Like, do you have any wild ideas that are brewing in the back of your mind, something you would like to realize at some point in your career?
- [21:01]
B
Good question. I don't think there's one that I feel like we haven't touched on at all. We have quite a few ideas in them, in the works, and that are all quite different from what we've done before, so I think those are all really exciting. But normally, though, normally the process is. Yeah, I love working with Lewis because he's such a creative person, but he's very much an ideas guy and so he'll often have an idea for something and come to me and you and our product design. And it's kind of very much a team effort. So I really like that way of working. It's very collaborative. So I don't think there's a. I don't think I have a dream watch fully formed.
- [21:46]
A
Not yet.
- [21:47]
B
Yeah, there's a few things, but it's not one cohesive idea as of yet.
- [21:53]
A
So we keep mentioning Lewis. But let's talk more about the structure of Paulin as a company and its history, how it's developed as a brand and how important its watch offering and clock offering has been to it throughout its history. Can you give us a potted history of Pauline right from the beginning and up until the present day, please?
- [22:13]
B
Yeah. So it was started by the three Paulin sisters. And when I started, Eleanor, the youngest, was creative director, so I worked alongside her for a good few years. And the two older sisters had already kind of started to take a step back by that point. And they've all now got young families and have moved, moved away from Glasgow. And Elena recently had a baby too, and so she has stepped back from the company as well. And that was when we had a bit of a restructuring and Irebrand came out and we merged with Ann Ardain. So that was a couple of years ago now. So, yeah, a lot of big changes all happening at the same time, and we kind of took stock and thought about what we wanted to change about the company and what we liked and what we wanted to carry forward and what we could also learn and take from Anne Ordain. So I think that was. Yeah, that was a really pivotal moment and I think we sort of started putting it into production or putting into practice, better production practices with the help of Ann Ardain. So making More stuff closer to home and even in house and doing the assembly in house. So I think that, yeah, that was a really important step for us. So moving towards a more lean production model and also like embracing this very different style of design which I think we'd all kind of liked but hadn't quite been able to realize on the watches. I think we were very much like entrenched in minimalist watches and all kind of wanting to break out of it. And then this was. Yeah, collaborating with Ann Ardane was a good reason to change that.
- [24:01]
A
It's one of a few web shops or watch webs, web shops at least where one can also buy an umbrella which is, you know, it's a USB of its own, I guess. £24. Very reasonable. Nice umbrella. You can visit the shop@paulinwatches.com, which is P A U L I N W A T c h e s.com and if you go on the accessories, you'll see some straps and this umbrella. Now that kind of sparked something in my memory. I don't know if I'm right in saying this, but in the past, Paulin didn't just make watches and clocks.
- [24:37]
B
Right.
- [24:37]
A
That was there accessories and more fashion items as well.
- [24:41]
B
Yeah. So we did one range of leather goods which was a really fun process I think because we already had the suppliers from making straps, we thought, and there was some really, really beautiful leathers that we did that we could be showcased on something bigger. And so we made a range of leather goods like wallets. And I think the biggest thing was an iPad case. But it was, it was kind of a strange pairing. I think they didn't do as well as we had hoped. But I've still, I still use my, my purse that we made. And I think that's another really nice thing about working with Polin is that it's very. We're very open to making other things. We just kind of make things that we would want to own or sometimes it's something that we can't find elsewhere on the market. And yeah, there's lots of, lots of ideas for non watch things. I'm not sure how many of them will actually come to fruition, but it's a fun process to be part of.
- [25:44]
A
It isn't interesting discussion to have for younger brands especially. I think the idea of creating non watch products to either scratch a creative itch or to expand the brand universe, communicate it through a different type of product. I've known some brands do it very effectively. I mean the best in my opinion, is probably Schofield down in Sussex, run by Giles Ellis. He spends far too long, in my opinion, and I'm sure he won't mind me saying that, because at least the results speak to the effort he puts into them. Designing things like pens and fidget, spinners, torches. And every single thing that comes out of the brand is entirely on brand and adds to the. The sense of what Schofield is. But it's also a huge drain and distraction on occasion. And I'm quite impressed to see Paulin having dipped their toe in the water there and done some lifestyle items, as it were, and then pulled it back, tightened up the collection, had this sort of soft relaunch almost, and gone very, very full ball with the watchmaking, and I think completely changed the brand in the minds of the watch community. I haven't seen pulling at a huge number of events, but when I've been present at events that you've been showing at, I've been, well, heartened, I guess the word is, by the response of my fellow watch collectors to the brand. I mean, I've loved it for years. I'm not gonna be one of those, like, I liked them before they were famous kind of people, but I really did like what Paulin was doing. But I think that the model line. Is that how you say it? Module.
- [27:26]
B
I say module, but people. Everyone in the company says it differently, to be honest.
- [27:31]
A
Modal. Okay, Modal. I'll say modal because that's much more distinguishable.
- [27:36]
B
But then it's from modular.
- [27:39]
A
Oh, yeah, okay. Okay, I get it. So it's modular, but modal. What would it be if it was modular? Model. Yeah. Okay. That doesn't help. Modal. The modal range, I think it's something completely different. It stands out. It's. It's the brand now. It's like the core piece that people will identify Paulin with. Do you think long term, although you say there are many ideas for other things that you could do, it's a wise move at this stage of the company's development to allow yourselves to spend time and focus on other things, or do you think it's worthwhile in encouraging a broader demographic to the brand itself rather than the watches specifically, and something that will reap dividends down the road?
- [28:25]
B
I think it's a fine line. I think we would only put something out now if it really seemed in line with our values. And I think the clock made sense, obviously, and maybe going down like a similar homewares route would make sense, but I Think we are also trying to appeal to not just watch connoisseurs, but sort of people with a more general interest in design. So I think having a. A broader range would make sense for that reason. But, yeah, it would have to be the right thing. It would have to be. It would have to be the very. The Polin thing.
- [29:04]
A
Oh, you've created an image in my mind there. Now I'm starting to think Polin could be the new brawn, you know, making all those beautiful table clocks and bathroom clocks and desktop clocks. Oh, yeah, that would work. Do that, please.
- [29:17]
B
We'll try.
- [29:18]
A
Okay, thank you. Next question. You said that you started going to events for the brand. Where have you been so far?
- [29:26]
B
So I did a couple of trade shows many, many years ago before I rebrand, and the first one that I've been to recently had been the Time and Tide British weekender. And then we also had a day yesterday, so it was maybe fresh in my mind. But we had our white room there yesterday. But I think, yeah, because that's in London. I'm based in London, it made sense for me to go. But I really enjoy meeting people that are fans of the brand, or not necessarily fans yet. It's really great to get feedback in person, so it's definitely something that I would like to keep doing.
- [30:08]
A
What kind of feedback did you get from the people at the Time and Tide event?
- [30:11]
B
Um, quite a lot of different stuff. I mean, I think people. People like that we have options for different movements and different sizes, but I think once you start offering a few options, people want to see even more and want, like, their favorite movement and in their favorite size, and, yeah, could end up doing many, many more options. And what else did people say? People often ask us to bring back the date window on the Neo, but when we had it, lots of people asked us to take it off. So it's quite hard to please everyone.
- [30:46]
A
Yeah, that's very true. How do you generally react to customer feedback? Because I think it's a really difficult thing to balance. You want, obviously, to listen to your audience or potential audience to a point, but then as a brand, you kind of have to set out your direction and sail under your own steam, I think most of the time. So what do you do? Do you make notes of frequently heard feedback and then bring it up in design meetings to sort of say, shall we address this date window issue now or shall we do something else? Shall we pursue our original plan? Or what does it look like?
- [31:22]
B
Yeah, I mean, yeah, quite similar to that. We kind of Keep track of things. And once it's come up a certain amount of times, you have to consider it, really. So actually, the two new models of the modal, the more neutral styles, came about because people did keep saying, like, I really love the dial layout and the case and whatever, but the colors are just too bold for me. And we all love colorful watches. But I can now, now that we've done the more neutral models, I do really love them as well. So I think. I think it's valuable to listen to. Obviously, you can't take everything on board, but, yeah, we try and we try and we try and listen to our customers where we can.
- [32:10]
A
I think it's great that you've got so many exciting colors available, and I think that that has become a key tenet of the brand itself. But I do think it's important to have a much more conservative piece or conservative pieces in the collection just to anchor it so people can see the design without the chromatic embellishments, so they can really get a sense of what the watch is. It's not to say that those more neutral ones will be the best sellers necessarily, but I do think that they help sell the more extravagant pieces. At least that's the way I've always looked at it. I think people have to understand the watch first before they buy it, and when once they understand it, they're more willing to take a little bit of a risk on a color scheme that they might normally avoid, such as baby pink and blue and red. It's. It's. I mean, it's incredible, the colors that you're mixing together. It's. It doesn't always make the most sense immediately in one's mind until you see it, and then you're like, oh, yeah, why don't other brands do that? Why hasn't Cartier done a tank with a baby pink dial and blue numbers and a red hand? Maybe we should ask them. Maybe that can be your first tank.
- [33:14]
B
Oh, that sounds great.
- [33:16]
A
If you could choose one brand in the entire industry other than Paul and Ordain to design for, what would it be? Would it be Cartier, or would it be something a little more off the beaten track?
- [33:25]
B
Oh, interesting. I think it. I think it would be fun to work with one of the really big hitters, actually, because I've always been in the microband world, and we have. There's quite a lot of freedom there, and it would be interesting to see what working with somebody with such a history and such a sort of defined visual language, whether there's more restrictions there or whether there's maybe less restrictions, I don't know, because they already have their very firm following. So I think working with someone big like Cartier or JLC or somebody in that sort of very classic realm would be interesting.
- [34:10]
A
God, I'd love to see you team up with jlc. That would be. That would be a match made in heaven. I think that would really work. Because if there's one thing the JLC can be accused of is being a little bit too safe on occasion, I think you could bring a bit of vitality to their designs. So write a letter.
- [34:26]
B
We'll see. We'll see what happens.
- [34:28]
A
So now you've had a little bit of taste of traveling for the brand. Are there any events that you've identified that you'd like to visit? Like, would you be interested in going to Windup in New York or San Francisco or Chicago or Dubai watch week or Geneva watch days or where would you like to visit? Basically, yeah.
- [34:44]
B
I think. I think one of the windups would be fun. I think we did quite well in Chicago, I think. I think that was the most suited to our aesthetic. And apparently we have a lot of watch fans or our watch fans in Florida. So I don't know, maybe that's somewhere. Somewhere we could try and reach out to. They're really liking the Poland vibe there, apparently.
- [35:07]
A
I can see why. Because of the colors, I guess. Florida is a state where you can wear a lot of bright colors and especially Miami would fit. I don't know of many major watch shows down there. There must be one or two in Miami that you could rock up to and I'm sure find great success. Do you ever think about doing collaborations with retailers in regions like specific regions, like designing a watch for that demographic?
- [35:32]
B
Yeah, I think we would. I think there's definitely. We're quite focused or we have like quite a particular following at the moment in certain areas. So a lot of our customers for both brands are in the US So I think we would like to try and branch out a bit. And maybe Asia, maybe Japan. I think that's definitely we'll be looking at in the next couple of years.
- [35:59]
A
Yeah, I suppose you've got quite a nice standard product for the Asian market. It's a relatively diminutive size. It celebrates quartz movements in some cases, especially with the display caseback of the Quartz movement, which is something I absolutely love. I wish more brands did it. I think that we should stop being mean to quartz and embrace it for the incredible technology that it is. I mean, I may be on a bit of an island there, but I really. I really adore it. What, how would you describe your general demographic? You say a lot of your customers are in the States, but what kind of age range are we talking? Is it mostly male, mostly female? What kind of jobs do you, if you know what they do?
- [36:37]
B
I don't know about jobs. I think it's changing quite a lot at the moment. I think we're kind of broadening our reach and I think we have always been more heavily male, but I think that's just also to do with the watch industry and who is aware of the brand. So I think. I don't know. I think we do actually have quite a broad appeal once you get in front of those people.
- [37:06]
A
I always wonder with a brand like Poland, especially when the price point is slightly repositioned from its initial offering. I mean, it's going up now, isn't it? We have models in the collection that are around £1,000, so over €1,000 and over $1,000 as well, which is very different from the initial offering of extremely affordable, much more, should we say generic designs, like, now we've got really exciting, characterful, branded, fully bespoke pieces. I always wonder who's going to buy a watch like this. And normally for me, it's existing collectors who have other watches, more boring watches, basic stuff like Rolexes or Pateks or aps, and they want something fun for the weekend or for the holidays. And they see this brand, like, okay, it's credible, it's got its own design, it's got incredible typography. We know that it is not scared of using color in a creative way. And they have the money, obviously, they have the resources. I wonder, because this is what's interesting about the demographic analysis, is not necessarily like, is it male or is it female? Because in most cases with a watch especially of this price, it'll be predominantly male, but it's split the split of those customers. It's interesting because if the whole industry is between 5 and 10% female and 90% male, if Paulin was pulling in 20 or 25 or 30% female customers, and that would be a significant, significant spike on the average, I think, and very, very interesting to know that this price point with this kind of remit is what can actually attract female customers to buy proper watches, not just like fashion fodder. So, yeah, I do what I think, like, the exploration of those demographics and like, understanding them even further will probably be an essential step when you look to Expand your presence in retailers which is something you're keen to do, right?
- [39:06]
B
Yeah, for sure. And I think just, yeah. Also trying to reach out of just the watch world and reach people that as I say, have an interest in design. But it is a bit of a funny, we're at a bit of a funny price, price point for people that aren't aware of what goes into making watches and why they're that price. They can seem expensive obviously, so it is kind of a hard line to walk. But we're hopefully, hopefully make clear why they cost, what they do. I think that's really important part of our ethos.
- [39:42]
A
Do you think that the alignment, the official alignment with Van Ordain helps in that regard so that people almost, they cross pollinate the two brands reputations and they both are embellished as a result?
- [39:58]
B
Yeah, I do. I think it really helps and I think it also gave Polin a bit of credibility in a way because we were able to show like, look, we're improving on all this, these production processes and we're trying to do more in house and we're really trying to push it and we're really working hard on all those elements and I think people already kind of trusted that Anna Dame was doing that and it helped give us a little bit more of a boost for Paulin. So I think, yeah, it's been a really useful marriage.
- [40:33]
A
Will we ever see an enamel dial in a Poland?
- [40:36]
B
I don't think so. I don't think it's quite right for us aesthetically and also just we do want to keep, as you say, the prices have been increasing but we are trying to keep them like around a thousand. So I think it's probably not feasible to do enamel for that price. 1,000 or under rather.
- [40:56]
A
I didn't expect you were going to say anything else. I was just, just reaching. Well, I guess that was the answer we all expected, but it was worth asking. Imogen, thank you for your time. Thanks for giving us the introduction to Paulin Watch brand. Guys, if you want to find out more about this brand, please do check out the website. Like I said, it's P A U L I N W A T C and you can find the brand on Instagram. Imogen, what's the handle at Paulin Watches? I believe straightforward enough. Okay, very good. If you want to contact us on Instagram, if you have any questions for Imogen or Paulin or anyone, Ann or Dane, we'll pass them on. You can do so by reaching me at robnuds. That's r o b n u d d s or Alon at alonben Joseph A l o n b e n j o s e p h or David at D a v a u c h e r. You can contact us via email either Rob Alon or David therealtime show and of course via the contact form on the website www.therealtime.show. thanks for tuning in. We'll be back soon with more top quality watch content. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.