← The Real Time Show
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- [00:00]
Pietro
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Rob Nudds
Watch fans and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nudds, our friendly neighborhood jeweler Alon Ben Joseph, and our illustrious guest from the Limited edition, Pietro. Pietro, where are you? You're hiding away in a hotel room somewhere in the world looking like you're a man. About time. What's going on?
- [00:23]
Pietro
Yes, I feel bad because it was explained to me that this was going to be the first the Real Time show video actually podcast. So I should have really put an effort on the background and how it looks and. But actually I just happened to be in a hotel room in London in our home, actually the Lansdowne Club, because we had a special night last night and we're going to have a special night tonight related to our limited edition activity.
- [00:52]
Rob Nudds
So what can we look forward to tonight?
- [00:54]
Pietro
So we are hosting tonight French independent watchmaker Sartor Ebillard. For the first time in, you know, with such a big presence in London, we have 50 collectors joining us for a celebration really of bespoke, affordable, attainable, I prefer to say watchmaking that Armand has been able to be able to, you know, has been able to become a little bit an ambassador across these. And yeah, last night we were blessed with, I was blessed with a graduation. I completed the 10k small businesses Goldman and Sachs program for which the limited edition was humbly shortlisted for the good growth we have shown in the last 10 years and for more critically the growth that we could hopefully achieve in the future. So I was blessed with participating to this program and to, you know, which is going to help bringing the limited edition to hopefully the next level.
- [01:52]
Alon Ben Joseph
Congratulations, Petra. Well deserved, well done.
- [01:56]
Pietro
Thank you.
- [01:57]
Alon Ben Joseph
You're very modest but it's, it's basically a graduation at Oxford University. We can call it a Master's mba. So kudos to you and beautifully that you've done that in the 10th anniversary of the limited edition because for our regulars, they've heard you on your first appearance on the Limited Limit, the Real Time Show. I'm making a Freudian slip now, but we wanted you back on the show because we wanted to celebrate this decade with you. Just a quick summary for those that did not listen to the first episode where you have been our guest. What went through your mind to be that crazy enough 10 years ago to make an all indie retailers gateway segue, Gateway for addicts.
- [02:45]
Pietro
I think it was mainly a midlife crisis, Alan, if I, if I'm honest, but I can't ride a motorbike. I have a Lovely wife. So I didn't need, you know, any more distraction on that, on that side. So I. When I turned 40, I just. I decided, you know, to try to look around me and see how I could have improved. Hopefully the. The humble mark I was going to leave from a professional standpoint in the next few years. And like this, I'm 50 now, so I'm quite happy I did that. And to do that, I was a big reader, you know, before I had to immerse myself into this world of social media and, you know, YouTube, Instagram, you name it. And I was reading a lot about how in business you don't necessarily need to just, you know, do your. Do your job. I'm a son of the 70s and the 80s, where I would have received education to mainly secure a job for life. You know, that's the way it used to be. And I'm not blaming anyone. It's just. It was like that. So I wasn't a risk taker. I just was enjoying my work at Richmond first. And then Girard Perregaux. Then I embraced Graham as well. Graham watches in great years for that small brand where I learned the entrepreneurship related to the watch industry that by then I knew quite well. And then I asked, I asked myself, can I not do something on my own? And if I do, what can I do differently from what is already out there? So I'm not gonna start dealing Rolexes and Patek Philippe and just hope to leave a mark. It's not gonna happen. So I thought it through with a few collectors that I had been friends for a while, and they happen to have the equity as well to develop an idea. And they just said, okay, we put the investment. Can you, can you, can you run something a little bit, how can I say, innovative, let's put it like that. And. And the idea was simply, you know, you. In those days, if you were going around the world, Sydney, New York City, London, you know, anywhere you mentioned, and for people like us that had the passion of collecting watches, you would go to points of sales and you'll see invariably the same 15 to 20 brands if you were lucky, but always the same. And when I was a rich one, we were told that every point of sale has to look the same everywhere in the world. The assortment has to be the same everywhere in the world. Otherwise you were failing as an area manager. So I was actually not. I was going the opposite direction I wanted to go. I was globalizing. The whole of my. My world dictated by guidelines given by a big group Instead of actually making it the way I feel it should, it should be. And the way I feel it should be was to project those artists, watchmakers, artisan watchmakers that were not represented at all 10 years ago. So, long story short, I decided to become a little bit the ambassador of those unknown watchmakers. And of course, 10 years down the line, it doesn't sound like a great idea anymore because so many others obviously have embraced this, this challenge. So our current challenge is to. Is to find the next way of developing our concept. So, sorry, long, long answer to a very, very simple question.
- [06:11]
Alon Ben Joseph
So, ambassador, you are not only for the watchmakers, but also for retailers and media. And I'm pointing at Rob. And this us sitting here with the cameras on is proof of that, because you inspired and motivated us to record the first ever video episode for the Real Time show. And it took two and a half years. And people have asked, we've debated it, we said, no, we're audio only. And it shows who you are. You always are about giving, giving. Never asking, you never take. You always give. You motivate you, inspire. You do that with watches. You do that in entrepreneurship. You and I spar as entrepreneurs. And you were so kind also to say, hey, guys, YouTube is really working for us. We passed the 100k mark, 140k mark already. So congrats on that. It's our beautiful award. Like my son always shows me of Mr. Beast and all these guys with their YouTube awards. So you are my MrBeast in the watch world. So you said, I'll put up this video also on the limited edition YouTube channel, and that shows who you are. So thank you for that. On your journey starting a decade ago, coming up to today, give us maybe a rundown of obstacles you surpassed and conquered and the successes you want to highlight in that 10 years.
- [07:37]
Pietro
Yeah. So I think you just mentioned it. The first three years, we didn't sell a watch whatsoever. You know, I had a, I had a. You know, I've had some kind of health issues. At the end of this year. I came back after six weeks being completely out of the business. And I kind of looked at the cells and the figures and I said, well, you know, I'm happy to be alive, I'm happy, everything is good, but I need to put my head down that now again. And I remember the first week of being back, we had a very good week of, of good sales, thank God. And that was actually the same turnover that we had the first year at the limited edition. So that we did in A week this year. So that brought back home the fact that in the first three years, like you were saying now, we were almost just giving. We were dreaming and giving. So we knew we had the eyes of the collectors on us, but we didn't have the reputation, we didn't have the stature at the time. And so we had to give first before hoping to receive. So the first obstacle, I think, was to find people, shareholders, you know, that I call shareholders, but I say friends that decided to join us from the beginning, they were just believing in the process, regardless of the figures and the returns. In the first few years when we were arguably just, how do you say, planting the seed. So that was, that was an obstacle because, you know, you're, you're both business people, you know that when you put the efforts of your life into something, seeing the return is something that is important, you know, in, at a certain level. And, and, and, and to reassure yourself on a, on a weekly basis is not easy when the results lag. So that was the biggest, the biggest, the biggest thing. And I remember in those days I was reading like crazy, you know, all the successful business people biographies, all the books of watchmaking, all the innovative peoples from the, you know, digital, because we're trying to do digital marketing, really in reality, because I never believed in the, in the business model of buy stock and then see what, what happens next, you know, hopefully we'll be able to sell. I was trying to do something that was actually the opposite. I was trying to create the demand first and second, second, then think about the sales. But yeah, at the beginning it was, it was difficult. Then when, when we realized that, we started to get interaction. We started to get, believe it or not, the first thing we sold were cufflinks, actually. So it really, really was hard, you know, and I think the first year was just one customer that actually made for the majority of our turnover. So it was like, you know, for many weeks, many months. I was thinking, what, what, what am I doing? You know, is it the, the right thing? So I give myself the credit of perseverance, which also saved me for the health issue I had recently. Same thing. I did it. I wasn't happy with whatever the doctors were telling me. I knew there was something wrong. So it's something I have in me. If I think that something is right or wrong, I will persevere. And then when we started to. First of all, some of my hero watchmakers started to give us some credit and decided to work with us. That was the first sign when I said Oh, I must be doing something right if, you know, if Vienna Alter wants to do business with us. I mentioned Vienna because the deep space was my grail watch. And I said to myself, if we ever sell one of these, it will be like a revelation that we're doing something really, really, really right. And. And then Covid. Covid came. It's very difficult for everybody, but once again, you know, in England we were lucky because the government was pretty much sustaining, supporting majority of the businesses. So that actually I, I hope you don't mind saying this, but there was a temptation of saying, okay, you know, let's just get the support and wait for what happens and then we'll reassess at the end of this Covid thing, if there will be an end. Because we didn't know at the time, but no, again, we decided to double up. I decided to be online every single day, basically during COVID to the point that my wife thought I may become like one sort of a weird 45 years old, you know, Internet kind of troll. And that was the perfect storm because people stereotypically had a lot of time. And what do you do when you're left on your own? You take care of your passions and people. It's not us they have that passion they have inside themselves. What we did well was to find a channel for them to get it out and to enjoy it at a different level than just walking to a high street boutique, seeing your Breitlings, seeing your tag, he's seeing your IWCs. And that was the way until 10, five years ago even. Yeah, so those were the revelation times. And then when we started our collaboration, so when we saw that brands, and Alan, you know about this. When you have brands trusting you to create a timepiece that would represent both the brand yourself, as I'm going to say, as a reflection of what you think your collectors would enjoy seeing, then is when you really realize that you are into partnership, long term partnership. You are rowing all in the same direction and it brings it finally home. You know, you're doing the right thing and you can think long term for good.
- [13:17]
Rob Nudds
So you've worked with some of the greatest brands in the world on collaborations and whatnot already. But tell me what your process is like. Is it often the same? Does it follow the same track? I mean, do they come to you with an idea or do you go to them with an idea? What's that creative discourse like to experience? And then what have you learned from it in terms of design?
- [13:39]
Pietro
Yeah. So I, I always say with all respect that our assets are the collectors that take their time, invest their time in following us and giving us the love. And arguably all of them could buy their timepieces somewhere else from the brand directly or from other retailers, but they choose to do it from us. Why? And the why is because of that giving that Alan was mentioning and the understanding. So when it comes to collaborations, we try to, through our exchanges with collectors, we try to see what it is that is lacking out there that can excite these or the other collector and what we can add from the creative perspective, from the engineering perspective, from the aesthetics, et cetera, et cetera, by introducing a watch that has not been done before. When we do that successfully, we find we have a good, good success and we've been blessed with, you know, the first collaboration was with the, believe it or not, with Coral watches back in the day, because we had a relationship at the beginning with Corum before they changed their strategy and we created our first limited edition with them, which when sold out at the time, which was a surprise as well, because Quorum was not necessarily the most height or in demand brand in those days. But then the one that was more, how can I say, really fitting our concept, as with the independent watchmakers, was with Arminstrom for our fifth anniversary. And that's why we started to experiment and to exchange with collectors to understand what they would have liked. And through that understanding, we came out with something that was really. We really appreciated. We always try to avoid the hype game. Even when we launched in collaboration with Amer, the Horror File, for example, the Ophion Guild Spectre edition, it was one of the biggest successes we had. We tried to get away desperately from that thing of, you know, starting to tease and then re. Tease and then, you know, pre sell completely before the sell, to be able to say sold out before the watch is actually sold. And those kind of tactics that because, not because we are good people, but because we understood that from the collector's perspective, at least for our clientele, was more an annoying thing rather than a. Than a help. And so we always try to just to be factual and to give everyone the opportunity to acquire something that they find of interest. And so far this approach has paid off. Now for the 10th anniversary, we have several collaborations coming. One was the one with the Sartori Biard. They're coming tonight. And the watch would be here as well, the SP05 lagoon. It's a fun project with just a very cool dial that Arman and I personally really, really loved. And we Said should we do this? And the answer was yes, but it's only 10 pieces, limited edition. When we'll have our big celebration in September here in London, there will be some brands, there will be 23 brands exhibiting here and there will be some brands bringing uni pieces and some others bringing their own collaboration. And the, the biggest one of them would be the collab with the VA alter which again, it's just because nobody's watching. I can share with you. It's, it's something that makes me incredibly proud because I, as I said he was the man for me when I started him. Andrea Estrella, Ludovic Baloa. And I'm sure I will, I will forget some but just to give an, you know, some names that can, can really, how can I say.
- [17:34]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [17:34]
Pietro
Illustrate what I mean for, for, for, for legends of independent Watchmaking. So yeah, I'm looking forward to, to all of that.
- [17:44]
Rob Nudds
So given that you are so community led, as it were, and you really take pains to take on board everything that your buyers are desiring, have you ever made a misstep in that regard? Have you ever made a, a catastrophic error that upset or alienated buyers? I guess like the thing everyone wants to know in business is not what your greatest success is, it's what was your greatest mistake.
- [18:10]
Pietro
So I think I've made all the mistakes in the book, I think. So where do I start? Because, so I'm, I'm a developer, I like to move on. I, I'm not a perfectionist. And this I have to say because I think perfection, somebody sometimes is a bit of a impediment to actually move on and do what is meaningful. So I would rather kind of get to the next good idea rather than linger and finalize perfectly an average idea, if that makes any sense. So mistakes I have, I have made loads. I made a huge one recently. But because this was if it was related about being open and telling the truth actually. So sometimes that can backfire. But I have accepted a long time ago that I would rather have that rather than the other way, other way around and building artificial truths and then not remembering what was the story that I told Rob and I know that.
- [19:20]
Alon Ben Joseph
Very well with the Real Time show.
- [19:23]
Pietro
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And you've been doing exactly this, this attitude of because you relate to a next level with the people that are watching this when they, they know that you can, yeah, you can make mistakes but, but they, they wouldn't believe that your word is not the word that you're putting out there. So, but yeah. What, what, what mistakes? I don't know. A mistake. Could have been. Could have been. Oh, yeah, I have, I have some good ones. Yeah. Some. Some incredible watchmakers that actually approached us before becoming massive, massive names. And because we are so. We do too many things, we are so overwhelmed with things, we would have completely kind of delayed a certain development, a certain relationship to, to blossom. And then after everything was done, the watch was launched, we would have just missed out on the train. That is something that has happened a few times. But at the same time, we are official retailers for over 80 names of independent watchmaking. And there is a reason to that. Not because we want to be a supermarket of independent watchmaking, but because we want to leave collectors in a position of understanding that we are not on an agenda to push this or the other brand. We want to give a clearer, a clearer, as clear as possible picture of what artisan independent watchmaking is about. In a space where you feel you're free to say, I like that, I don't like that, but this is what available, which is the opposite of this typical shop experience from my perspective, where curation is a good thing, is a good practice. But when you go again to the four corners of the world and you see the 10 different brands are always the same, you understand that there is an agenda behind that. So no judgment on that business model. But if we were here to exist, we always thought we should do things slightly, slightly differently. So, yeah, I hope that answered your.
- [21:32]
Alon Ben Joseph
Question, to use that as a segue. Pieto, how do you go about selecting these brands? Watchmakers, artisans? What are the criteria for the team behind limited edition to select them? And how could an aspiring new watchmaker, brand entrepreneur get into the fold of those 80 plus brands?
- [22:00]
Pietro
Yeah, very easy. There are two main topics there. One is I find out about, I have found out about some of the most exciting watchmakers through just listening to our collectors. So I have, I have daily conversations, you know, the people coming tonight to the event, we have over 50, bless them, you know, people that will come here for the event, the private event with. They're people that would, would exchange with us. So there is a real exchange happening on the daily basis. So it's not all about me. I have a team of 15 people. John in Ireland is our editor with his lovely wife. And also they are in the mix in terms of understanding what are the watchmakers that are inspiring our collectors the most. So that's the first thing because with all the giving that we did at the beginning, we receive a Lot genuine feedback. So we learn, we learn from our collectors. And the second one is every. So why do we like artisan witchmaking? Is because we find that artisans are iconic in what they are trying to do and they have the same kind of frame of mind as we have of wanting to be iconic for one specific characteristic that is theirs and their own. You know, one of the. Obviously Rob, not because we are here, but one of the latest members of the family was Archonaut, of course, the Danish, Danish watchmaker. I've never read and yeah, this wasn't prepared everyone. It's just, honestly just came to my mind why did we take Archanaut? Is because Archanates in their own quirky way of intending horology, taking themselves not, not too seriously and just playing with colors, playing with materials that nobody, no one else arguably does in the way they do, made a perfect, a perfect choice. Because today. I don't know if you agree Alan as well. It's a time where a lot of the excitement is with the attainable quirky brands. You know, in the price range between two and six thousand pounds, there is a lot of movement and there are a lot like Arkano that have managed to find their own personality and their own iconic take. So the two things, one exchange with collectors. The second one is is the brand iconically unique? That's it. Brand watchmaker or is it just another brand that is going to do a diving watch, a chronograph, a tourbillon, a ladies watch, a perpetual calendar, an equation of time which is the standard way of the big brands to fill up all the retailers around the world. Then the retailers find itself selling very well, the chronographs and selling very well the diver and having to kind of reinvest everything else on those models that have nothing to do with the identity of, of the brand. I'm sorry to be very blunt, but that's, that's, that's my opinion is how I see things. So yeah, so you've got a lot.
- [24:57]
Rob Nudds
Of experience of communicating very, very high end, often extremely characterful, unusual pieces to people who maybe haven't seen these watches in person. The lack of physical stores obviously and people not wanting to travel halfway across the world to see something before they buy it means that what you say is of paramount importance. Have you got any days or examples of watches that you have yourself not fully understood until you've had them in your hand? And after realizing that there was something special about this watch, it wasn't easily understood through images on a screen. Or through text in a press release. How were you able to change your communication strategy to ensure that your consumers got that valuable insight from you directly?
- [25:45]
Pietro
Yeah, Rob, this is a very good question is I, I have to pinch myself every time, you know, in, in a normal world, not only 20 years ago, but even today, to think that somebody that you've never met or is, is trying to considering to buy a watch he's never seen from a guy on the other side of the planet that is never really been in touch with at a price tag of sometimes over 100, 200, 300,000, it kind of. I still sometimes can't believe it. So. And especially because, okay, now the limited edition, we have several faces and several voices. We have Oliver, all the shareholders are actually real collectors. So I have valuable inputs all around me. Johnny is probably one of the most knowledgeable people in terms of, when it comes to artists and watchmakers. He's built relationships with them that span for, you know, longer, even before, long before to when I, I came into the picture. But, and I am not a watch expert, let's face it, you know, I'm not a watchmaker. I haven't gone, I haven't been to a watch school. I was selling pens, you know, at the beginning of the 2000s when I joined Richmond Group. So I, how can I say? I think what we did right was to always put the protagonists in front. So our way was to, okay, I am a big fan of Jenna Altair. I'm gonna put him in front of you to explain you what he was trying to do with the deep space, with the classic, with the Antigua. And that brought it really, really back home in many ways. So how can I say in terms of the surprises I had. Yes. Then when the watch finally comes to us, I just, most of the times, I can't believe it. When we meet together, those incredible watch exhibitions, and you see these people together with their charisma and their art, then you, you fully understand. So, yeah, oh, it's, it's, it's a funny one, but it's all based on relationships and reputation that creates that. Again, the clients could sometimes, you know, just buy directly from the watchmaker, but they don't do it and they do it from us. And I, I'm very humbled every time. And I, I'm trying to think, why is that happening, how that happens? And it must be because of what we are trying to give in terms of, you know, increasing, letting them enjoy their passion not only when they have they receive the watch, but all the hours, they do their research online, et cetera. That's their free time that they dedicate to that. And they, they, they deserve to enjoy that. It can't just be transactional. You go to a store, you see a watch you buy that's, that's very fickle. You know, it's very short kind of satisfaction. This is, we're working on the, on the bigger picture in that respect. But yeah, in terms of going back to the mistakes I may have done, you know, if I could go back, I will do, I will do a course, watchmaking course, you know, I'll try to get a diploma. These are all things that maybe are for the second part of my life since I've managed now to stay alive for, and make it to 50 years old. And I know I. Big plans for the future.
- [29:18]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, there's always time to become a watchmaker. It doesn't take that long really. I'll, I'll show you the ropes for a fee, of course. If you show me some of the watches you've got in stock, that'd be, that'd be a fair trade. So that's a, that's all right. We'll do that, we'll do that in Geneva maybe. But you're saying that really the, the key thing for you is having these personal or at least very intimate professional relationships with your consumers. And I guess you have a very high number of returning buyers. I guess it's like a family that is, you know, growing over time but very stable in its core. It's because, you know what they're looking for that you're able to offer the insight that is necessary to push them over the edge to make that final purchasing decision. Because a big group trying to sell a six figure watch doesn't know that customer X, Y, Z from shipping Norton has a particular penchant for Cordura straps or, you know, a particular type of buckle and so on and so forth. Or a watch that wears in a certain way because their wrist profile is so on and so forth, but you know that. So you're able to laser in on each individual customer to identify their need and then fill that gap. Is that, am I, am I sort of striking in the right direction there?
- [30:37]
Pietro
Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. It's definitely returning sales are the bulk of our business and the relationships that we build in the process not only create, you know, the turnover, obviously the revenue stream that we need to keep pushing, but also helps us in finding direction because they, through this exchange, I know what to do next. Where to dig next. There is a number of watchmakers that don't appear even on the platform that we work actively with that we are able to suggest and to recommend to a limited group of our collectors that have shown interest in that. And because of that I got deeper than just a simple brand to retailer relationship that we may have built with some of the brands we, we have on the platform. And so it's, it's definitely that I see it as a, as a club, you know, in a way a club of friends that are on a journey and they, they've been enjoying for years and, and, and that's the way we, we're driving things forward. And yeah, Alon, I think you're, you are, you may be inspired to intervene here.
- [31:56]
Alon Ben Joseph
Well, no, not to intervene. It's. You triggered a bit back in the interview, an idea in my mind when you said protagonist is, I'm sitting here enjoying and listening to you. And I thought, when did I encounter the limited edition for the first time? And it must be eight, nine years ago. And I for a very long time thought you were a media guy, an educator and an authority on indies. And I actually learned a lot from you. The platform, your colleagues, the team, Johnny, of course. And the funny thing is, and I've said this in the previous episode, I admire you as a retailer, but I perceived you more as a media authority, a journalist, because you are objective. And my question is, are you a media company? Are you a retailer? Are you both? There's a huge convergence going on. Media companies that become retailers, retailers have to become media companies. I have that issue. You do a lot. Rob does a lot. A lot of people don't know what label to stick on you. So what is the limited edition today? Because what a lot of people don't know, you promote the profession, the art, you don't per se, sell everything. And why did it trigger the word protagonist? Because during lockdowns I watched every episode you did with Jean Claude Biver or you, although you didn't have any economical ties to him or his brands, because I think he was still at LVMH back then.
- [33:35]
Pietro
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was on.
- [33:37]
Alon Ben Joseph
Tell us a bit about that, please.
- [33:40]
Pietro
So we are a retailer, we are an online retailer. And the choice was when you're a retailer, you have two ways of trying to have an impact. One is being able to seduce brands by investing in stock and having a prime location in one of the famous capitals in the world. That is a long term kind of process on which the success will depend on the grip that you have on your local customers and the footfall you can have in that particular area. But it's a risky business in for me because I've seen it failing many times for the small independent artisans. Because when stocks float around and you are unsuccessful with sales, guess what happens next? You know, everyone has to do business. So the stocks are there, the demand goes down, the product is available, and what, what is the evaluation of, of, of, of, of the, of the brand when you see unsold items out there? So for me, the alternative to that was because understanding the limits of artisan watchmakers. You know, artisan watchmakers, they will, they're not meant to sell thousands and thousands of watches. They are meant to cut, cater for a very small niche of really motivated collectors that thrive with the idea of not being able to find, not being able to sing, not being able to walking around London seeing, you know, the product all the time because they like the idea of, oh, no, I know the guy, I know where I can find that. And they can talk about that with their friends without being obvious, without saying, oh yeah, you know, you can find this particular Arkanaut you can find in four boutiques across London. Just, you know, you know, next to Pratt, there will be a boutique, you know, whatever. No, it's not that. It's like a hunt, you know, it's like a treasure hunt in, in a way. And so my question was, so as a retailer, instead of investing on a location, instead of investing on, on, in watches, which is something that is of course the option, the main option, can I actually invest in communication and actually have an impact of what most retailers can't quite master, which is the demand. So then, very humbly, I said, okay, let's try this way also, because I tell you frankly, we started with £80,000, you know, the business. Now, you know, again, because nobody's listening. But, you know, we, we are more obviously multiple to that figures 10 years down the line. But there wasn't any huge investment. So I said, what can I do to influence the demand? And not being a watch expert myself, well, I'm gonna put the real heroes out there. You know, I'm a passionate music person. I play the guitar. And I find myself, you know, besides watches with guitars is the same thing. I go out and I check who's playing that particular guitar, where I can find that particular guitar that nobody has. And those people that are giving me the knowledge, guess what, you know, where am I going to buy the guitar? Where am I going to serve myself um, it's just very natural. Then of course, it's easy to say it took years to implement. I was very lucky. My initial investors, friends, collectors, shareholders, they weren't doing that to gain their daily, daily bread. They just put a sum of money on the side and said, you have it. You know, we believe in your ideas, take as much time as you need and believe it or not, we're still in that situation where now we, you know, we have 15 people in the company we turning over, luckily, a healthy, a healthy turnover, we are well in profit, but still the same collectors that join the club and as shareholders, they're still giving us that independence to go in the direction, in a non standardized direction for as long as we add equity to what we're doing. So I see the limited edition finally. Yes, as a retailer, but as a brand, I would like to say that the limited edition is a name that means something to those that have a passion for artisan watchmaking. I think we have achieved that without being too big headed, but that is the ultimate drive in every decision we make, including the previous question, how we choose the brands. If the brand adds something valuable to what we're trying to do, then is always welcome and then it's up to us to adapt the structure to be able to give every brand the service and the exposure that the brand needs.
- [38:30]
Rob Nudds
So this leads in nicely to my next question about bringing new brands on board. So we are a couple of weeks out as we are talking right now, from Watches and Wonders, the whole Geneva Watch Week, when the watch industry descends on the capital of watchmaking for a few days and gets a little bit silly and a little bit overexcited about all these new watches we're going to get to get to play with. What are your main goals at events like this and specifically Geneva watch days? Do you go there to deepen existing relationships or primarily to meet new people or bring on board new brands? Or is there something else that you're doing while you're running around like Mad Men?
- [39:11]
Pietro
So the Northern Star for us is what can we do for our collectors whilst we're there, whilst we're having free, free dinners and free drinks and, you know, a nice, nice holiday in one of the best cities in Europe, arguably. And we can do two things. We host collectors over there, so we guide them if they want to meet a brand. That's the other thing that we've done with a certain freedom is we not only try to avoid trying to keep collectors away from brands being scared that they may Buy directly from them. We not only not do that, but we actually push the opposite because that helps us to create truthful relationships as well and expose what we're doing at a much, much bigger level. So we do things like organizing meetings for our collectors with the brands. We do manufacturing visits, private dinners. So that's one service. The second is about visibility because of the pollution, like watch pollution. We're going to be immersed in in the next few, few days. You know, Instagram is going to be a nightmare and we're going to try to make sense of what are the real highlights based on our way of curating our business. So we're not going to start describing the best Rolex novelties because we know that that's going to bring clicks to us. We're not going to start queuing outside of Patek Philippe to show how they would kick your, your bum if you don't have an appointment, you know, and you show up there. We're not going to do that. We're just going to think about our collectors. Okay, so what's relevant? How can we put all the ducks in a row for them to make sense of an event that is easily overwhelming? These are the main two things really.
- [40:57]
Alon Ben Joseph
A decade ago you had a clear cut mission, vision and strategy. Did those three change at this pivotal point in your history? What does the next decade look like for the limited edition and the teams?
- [41:15]
Pietro
Yeah, Purpose, Vision, Values was a big chapter of the work we've done in our MBA with Goldman and Sachs at Oxford University and it was actually very useful. So I want to publicly thank the incredible lecturers, professors that we've had the amazing privilege of being exposed to because it made me think that inherently things haven't changed. So because purpose both, I'm not gonna be too long on this, but purpose, vision and values define yourself for as long as you, they help you to take yourself out of the crowd and keep your niche, iconic personality in how you conduct the business. So that is more relevant today than it was 10 years ago. I mean the 40 years old Pietro is going to be really upset with what I'm going to say. But 40 years ago it was easy because nobody was doing what we are trying to achieve. Rob, you know, it launching Archonaut in the last few years was I think a blessing. As you know, in a way compared to many years ago when, you know, if you had launched Archonaut to the extent you have now in 2010, it would have been a very, very different scenario. So for brands it was much more Difficult. But for people that came like us as facilitators with an idea that pretty much no one had really exploited at the time, it was easier. So it was easier to project the fact that we were different. Today, again, there is a lot of retailers that are doing some a very good job, some a bit less, but you know, but everyone understands that, yes, there is a business model that is linked to leveraging on the artisan watchmakers. So today I have to find new ideas, new inspiration, new ways of conducting the, the business, new personalities like Oliver that came on board. And Oliver is not only a mentor within the, within the organization because he has incredible kind of administrative operational skills. It doesn't work for the limited edition, but out of passion, he decided to come in, put his face at the service of the limited edition and illustrate the journey of what it means to be a collector of mainstream brands moving on to the, to the independent. And so now finding originality can be trickier than how it has been in the past. So that's our challenge, the name of our challenge today.
- [43:59]
Alon Ben Joseph
You guys have always been a pure player, as they call e commerce retailers. Do collectors and or brands wish you have a more permanent physical presence anywhere in the UK or the world? Because I assume you have collectors from all over the world. Talking about the community that you mentioned, I've also been very happily sucked in to the WhatsApp community, your Instagram community. The communication you guys done is second to none. It's above par best I've seen and I have a right to speak because I'm a retailer as well. So I could definitely say that, well, what, what, what are your views on physicality of retail? Whereas you said Covid was a blessing for businesses and E commerce in that sense, obviously it wasn't a blessing, but.
- [44:55]
Pietro
Every negative has a positive.
- [44:57]
Alon Ben Joseph
Could you share a vision on that?
- [45:01]
Pietro
Yeah. So I think the ideal situation is to be able to marry both. You know, if you ask me what's the weakness of the limited edition today is that yet we haven't found a way to have a physical presence that for what our identity is, can't just be a high street retail space and it's not going to be that. So we have plans and ideas to have a showroom that should be private. Like our events are like our 10th anniversary event will be. It's not going to be, you know, the great British watchmakers event, you know, open to the public. It's not going to be that kind of thing. It's going to be a celebration of us and what we've built with our own collectors. Same with the showroom. It's going to be another service again, I think I have to think about our collectors. What would they need? Yes, they would need a space in London they can call home and they can kind of, you know, get away from their family for a few hours, go and talk watches and you know, have a drink and just cultivate again that passion in a more of a physical way. So that's definitely what should be behind the corner for us. We're working on it again to go back to the previous point, to complete our offer in a more competitive environment of today where there is more people that are doing quality work and we have to keep up, keep up with that.
- [46:29]
Alon Ben Joseph
Amazing.
- [46:29]
Rob Nudds
I've been keen to know about your collecting journey. So you said at start of the decade or start of the century maybe you were more into pens than watchers.
- [46:40]
Pietro
Yes.
- [46:41]
Rob Nudds
So what happened?
- [46:43]
Pietro
Yeah, so my, my journey. I'm. I'm middle class, you know, Italian. I come from a middle class Italian family where seeing a watch in any possible important day that could be, could justify such a, such an important purchase was a special occasion. It all started with my dad in the 80s. He was successful with his business and he. I remember one day he came back home with a Girard Perregaux for himself and a bridling for me that I have then lost imagine. But I remember the light in the eyes of my dad and that was when he brought back home for me. I was 15. How watches can be special regardless of what they are, the tag price. There is an amazing watch for every wallet and every price point and, and this memory. And you know, my dad is still with us. Thank, thank God is still wearing his giraffe Go. Because he's much better than me. I am a dreamer. I'm a. I push forward. But my dad is a perfectionist. He was never gonna lose this watch like I did as a proper. Yeah, proper Muppet. But that also it's important because I swear, I swore to myself when I was 15, I said I'll never wear a watch again. Because I was so gutted because of the light in the eyes of my dad that I had spent, you know, in those days, best part of half a million liras, which were big a lot of money for our, you know, normal middle class family. I lost the watch. It traumatized me completely. So then when it came, I was hired of Richmond fast forward in 2001 just because I could speak languages, I think because I had no really big knowledge into watches or pens. Then I embarked in a journey of making up for that mistake and misunderstanding I had with the world of watches because of the incident that happened to me. And I come to your point, I promise, Rob. So started with pens, didn't have a watch collection. I was watching from afar. And then when I moved to Gira Perigo, there have been a series of watches that have started coming my way. And every watch had a meaning. So I remember the first vintage Carre, so the square vintage with a full date calendar from Girard Perregaux that was given to me for my sales performance. Other watches and wonders that was called C HH at the time. Every day a watch was given to the most successful salesman on the day. So I was, I mean that was the excuse. But then I realized that at the end of the week, everyone got, you know, on every day, every single sales manager had a watch. So it was a very democratic way of doing it. But anyway, that watch, that watch meant a lot to me. And from then, every watch that entered my small collection has a meaning. So before I embarked on this journey, you can imagine financially, you know what it means. You are both entrepreneurs. There's points in your life where you just have to put all the ducks in a row and say, I don't need this duck, I just need this duck. I don't need this duck because I need that one duck. So I had to sell some of my watches and when I started the limited edition, I had no watches whatsoever. From then, every collaboration we've done, I have kept one of one of the watches. So I am building a collection based on my personal journey in the watch business. Basically the last is the one I'm wearing here, which in this case was a present from Vladimir Negot and Atelier Haute Complication, who made a special piece with the limited edition engraved on the bezel of the jewel Time from a man that has collaborated 14 years with Francois Poljorne. His son is called Francois Paul. He's a devoted disciple of Francois Paul Jones. And he's now embarked in launching his own brand. And brand is a big word, I mean his own production. And he's been one of our most successful launches in the last three years. And these are stories that I will always be able to tell which go far and beyond just going to a high street retailers and buying a watch which it's something I enjoy, I would enjoy as well. So that's my story. But we have a plan to do an episode for our YouTube channel. One day on my humble collection that I managed to build up following this development at the limited edition.
- [51:27]
Rob Nudds
So for the rest of us, when we're thinking about buying a new watch, it's not always attached to a story, of course. It can be just a aesthetic interest or a need, maybe, or a loose need, shall we say. And so we do our research, we go out, we decide what we like, we compare the options that we make normally, like a relatively informed decision. All of your watches have a real attachment to you. There's a lot of heart in them, there's a lot of memories attached to them. But do you ever find yourself in a situation where you see something that you really, really want, but so that you don't have to change your narrative, you pursue that brand, get them on board at the Limit edition, and then make a collaboration with them? It's almost exactly the same as what you wanted to buy, but maybe with your name on it so you can have it. Has that happened yet?
- [52:12]
Pietro
Oh, yes. Oh, yes, that's the. Sorry, Alan.
- [52:17]
Alon Ben Joseph
I said, Rob, isn't that how you and I operate?
- [52:23]
Rob Nudds
Yeah. To be fair, this is the Real Time show. So full disclosure, yeah. If we like you, we're coming for you and we want to watch in our.
- [52:32]
Pietro
Listen, Rob, I think all of us, if money had all I'd been the only driver, probably would be doing something very different. You know, I could have stayed in Switzerland. I could have just pursued a corporate career. There is a lot of benefits in what we do that don't have necessarily have nothing to do with money, if you like. And that's one of them. If you have a passion, you have your heroes. And when you can interact with your heroes, you try to do it in a way that you're not going to spoil things, you know, your, your taste or your passion for that maker, but you're actually gonna enhance, you know, the story. And so the simple answer is, is yes. You know, there's, there's quite a few brands, you know, that. I don't know how to say this, but like some, some have been amazing commercial successes, some others have not been, but they've been incredible human experiences that I am so happy. I have, I have, I've managed to bring my, my way. So it's. We have, I think watchmaking, if it's here to stay, is because it has a lot of our human characteristics, the skills, the craftsmanship, it will be destined to disappear in a world that is going increasing, increasingly digital and increasingly artificial. If you, if you. Let me say that so actually, watchmaking, for as anachronistic as it can be, it's a tool for us to stay as human as we can. And we, as free entrepreneurs, having the freedom to pull certain strings gives us an incredible gift that 95% of the people on the planet don't have. When you just have a job and you do your best, you know, with all respect, you do your best every single day, but you don't have those strings to make it more like you, to make it fun for you. And we have. We have those strings because we gave up. I mean, me personally, I gave up the corporate career long time ago. Now, am I richer? Probably. Probably not. But I've created something I'm proud about and makes me feel human, a human every, every day. So that's. That's how I see it.
- [54:48]
Alon Ben Joseph
Beautiful note. To wrap it up, I want to say huge congrats to you, Pietro, and the whole team. Amazing decade, as we always wish on a birthday till your 120th. So you have 110 more years to go in good health, looking forward.
- [55:08]
Pietro
That doesn't make sense, does it, Rob? I'm not gonna get that far, but yeah, yeah. No, no.
- [55:12]
Alon Ben Joseph
Everything is synthetic, and if it's up to Elon Musk, we'll live forever. So 120 is nothing.
- [55:18]
Pietro
It's all of us. Absolutely. Oh, that's. That's exactly, exactly the point. We are humbly contributing to something that is beyond us in so many ways. Like we. We now stare at a Breguet masterpiece or a Thomas Tompion masterpiece at the Museum of Science in. In England. They didn't do it for the quick buck. You know, they. They were serving technological innovation. They were serving, you know, whatever the English empire was, was after in those days. But we are. We can be part of a story that, you know, I'm not an artist, I'm not a watchmaker. So this is a humble way to be involved with something that is very, very respectable. And you guys, I have to congratulate you as well, because I know you have multiple businesses you. You take care of, you know, in different capacities. And to have been doing this and being consistent for such a long time. I remember now our first interview was probably a couple of years back with no agenda as well, you know, for. As it comes across, but just for the. Serving a community of people that are passionate about the different facets of the world of watchmaking and sometimes sharing also some spicy and saucy, you know, how do you say, back behind the scenes? That's the word in English, incorrect English that you do regularly is, is credits credit to you, to you in, in many ways.
- [56:51]
Rob Nudds
Thanks, mate. We really appreciate it. And we wouldn't be able to do it and we wouldn't have been able to establish a community if it weren't for willing guests like you coming on and sharing your knowledge and your passion. And the stories today that they've really put a smile on my face and for once everyone can see that I am actually smiling. So, you know, I try not to do it. A lot of teeth. But yeah, we really enjoyed the hour we spent together, almost exactly an hour, which is great. We'd obviously love to have you back on the show. We will again in the future. Whether it's video and whether that's the thing we do now or whether it's back to audio only, you are always welcome. Can't wait to see you in Geneva in a couple of weeks time. If any of our audience have questions for Pietro, then you can get in touch either with him directly, you probably know where to find him, or with us via Instagram herealtime show, via our emails, either Alan, Rob or David herealtime show via the contact form on the website www.therealtime.show or if you want to get in touch with our humble rambler, Scarlett Baker directly, she can be found on Instagram at S C A R L I N T H E S H I R E. It's not a mouthful at all, is it? That one scowl in the shire. She is a bolajig.
- [58:01]
Pietro
I want to confirm, I want to confirm as well that this interview would be on the limited edition YouTube channel. And again, it was a big surprise for us. We started to develop that because we find Instagram getting increasingly polluted and if you don't pay Instagram, you don't get the traffic. If you pay Instagram, you get the wrong traffic. So we said screw that and we're gonna move to YouTube and just do our nerdy, how can I say social media controversial content because you know, they push you to do one minute snippets, one minute here, one minute there. No, actually like you do, we do one hour, one hour and a half, we don't care. And the reward to that has been, has been that we are now from 500 subscribers two years ago, is now 140,000, which makes us really, really happy. So his interview will be there and feel free to comment, get in touch with us and, and it would be a pleasure to interact.
- [59:01]
Rob Nudds
Well, hopefully we'll be able to follow your lead because our follower on YouTube is extremely small. It's our smallest platform. Most of our listeners listen via Apple podcasts and then second most is Spotify. So I believe the videos nowadays are also going to be on the Spotify app which is something I'm going have to figure out how to do technically. But yes, please do check out this video on every platform. You find it, like it, share it and then subscribe. Definitely subscribe. I have to start doing that. I'm have to get used to where the buttons are for doing videos. I have no idea where anything goes but there's something down there that's clickable and then click in the big box and say something nice. That would be really really nice and very appreciated. We'll be back soon with more content in whatever format we decide to run with with watchmaking's finest such as Pietro and his colleagues in the industry. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.
- [59:50]
Pietro
Ciao. Grazie mille. A presto.