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The Real Time Show
Progress For Progress's Sake? Has Watch Movement Development Gone Far Enough?
00:59:43
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- [00:00]
Rob Nudds
Jeff Daniels, Nick Cave, Gordon Ramsay, Ed Sheeran, Ben Stiller, Tom Cruise, Kit Harrington, Dennis Quaid, Quentin Tarantino, Eli Roth, Mads Mikkelsen, Jude Law, Vinnie Jones, Tobey Maguire, Ian Anderson, Elvis Costello, Viggo Mortensen, the Dalai Lama, Kate Couric, Yoko Ono, Sean Lennon, His Majesty, King Constantine ii, Lewis Black, Simcha Jacobici, Richard Quest, Chris Van Roh, Steve Spangler, David James and Herman Reidas. Alan Robert, the Climber. That's cool. Rory Rosegarn, Helga Thomason and Goran Peterson. Hi, and hello watch fans, and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nudds and our friendly neighborhood jeweler, Alon Ben Joseph. Today we are diving back into the mailbag without one of our classic Q and A sessions, and we have a lot of questions to choose. Choose from. I've got one that's floating around the top of the mailbag that I think needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. So before I even let my Dutch companion take the mic, I'm going to ask him a question. So I hope you're wide awake, Alan. I hope you've had your coffee in the morning because this one is directed directly to you. This comes in from Ryan and Ryan says question for Alon. I really enjoyed the episode of Scarlet and Rob the other day, but I'm curious to hear alon's take on 2024 and what he'd like to see in 2025. And Bey, does he have any exciting personal plans for the year ahead? Morning, Alon.
- [01:32]
Alon Ben Joseph
Morning, buddy. I did have a coffee. I definitely need another coffee. The kids did not want to sleep as much as I wanted them to sleep, but sitting here with you gives me a lot of energy. I love these sessions. I love the recordings. I love the Real Time show. I have a coffee in front of me and thank you, Ryan, for your question. Before I answer this question compliments, Rob. I loved the episode with Scarlett. For those that might have missed this actually epic chapter in our two years plus history, we have a fourth host on the Real Time show, Girl Power, Scarlett Baker. I think she's the youngest, so that is going to give us even more energy. You guys sat on a mic, unscripted, jammed, amazing chemistry. So I literally enjoyed it. As a consumer, so a listener of the show, I did not know what you guys were going to talk about. I love the way how she kept you on your feet and I love the game that she did, that snappy game that, that she said just one keyword and you had to reply, you remember the cut? Cut. She was saying cut. I love that.
- [02:48]
Rob Nudds
I was very impressed with the control she took of the episode. I felt like I was the guest, which was lovely. It bodes well for the future, let's say that.
- [02:57]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah. So that was. That was amazing. And I have a feeling she did not listen to the GPHG episodes that we did for 24 because you raved about the Hermes cut. So that was actually lovely that you guys have similar tastes at certain points. So to answer Ryan's question, my take on 24 is honestly, it has been such a roller coaster, both for me personally, for my businesses, the watch world, the world itself. And I still feel that I literally didn't take a break at the end of 24 and I kept on rolling on this roller coaster. So I didn't sit back and had time to reflect. We did not either on the Real Time show because you kept going, I kept going. We kept the pace up and high. We have amazing things coming for 25. So just to reflect back for me, myself on the watch aspect of 24, I am very honored and blessed because it was a record year for me and something I really love to do is design watches. Not only did we do one and this one trts collab and that was the second with Circula, with our dear friend Cornelius Huber, which I'm very proud of after our Sherpa, we obviously worked behind the scenes for new designs for 2025 on the ACE side of things. I don't even remember what could be. We did 10 collabs which was maybe too much, but lovely creativity, amazing projects, teamwork. So that was amazing. We obviously saw the demise of the watch industry all around the cooling down of the markets. I've noticed that not only in the pre owned side of things that we dabble in, and that is literally the pulse of the market. There's hardly any lag there because during COVID some watch brands or watches have been commoditized. They've been literally a commodity. So the prices of these watches literally fluctuate like a stock exchange. So that was interesting to see. You obviously saw the demise and the diminishing demand for new watches and you saw the interaction between what's going on globally in politics correlated to buying of watches. So that's interesting. You saw literally waves, Trump got elected, boom. Sales went up again. So that was interesting on the design side of things. And Scarlett and you discussed that. Rob, in depth is the rise that started basic in 23 already is the Non round watches. So we call them shape watches, but often we don't call square rectangular shapes. So everything besides round, square, rectangular shaped. But for argument's sake, real creativity. So I loved that and let me think, I. I don't know if I have other things that I want to highlight, so I'll roll into my dreams, expectations and wishes for 2025.
- [06:36]
Rob Nudds
What about watches and Wonders? What did you think about the fair itself?
- [06:39]
Alon Ben Joseph
The fair itself didn't move me that much on several levels. So I know that Scarlett and you also discussed on a higher level and I love the fact how Scarlet correlated that to the UK market and she wanted the British fairs to be more elegant and eloquent and chic and bustling. The change we saw last year at Watches and Wonders is that they added, I believe, only four brands. So I believe Nomos, Raymond, Val, Bremont and there's a Ford brand I'm forgetting that got added to the rotation or to the program. So that wasn't really uber exciting. The watches that were brought, it was an exciting year as much for me, the highlight was the IWC Perpetual, the Eternal Perpetual calendar, which has won also the GPHG award, so the overall award. And I got excited about the 31, no more colors. So those were my highlights product wise and Watches and Wonders. Now I'm still maybe mourning that Basel World has died. So maybe I'm still processing that. And I feel that they want to kind of revive that at the PAL Expo in Geneva doing Watches and Wonders. But then what stood out for me as a sore thumb was that Mr. Dufool, the CEO of Rolex, lashed out at the other organizers of other events and the brands that don't partake in Watches and Wonders and they do exhibit during the same week. He called them pirates. Then I'm like, really? Is that necessary? I mean, you have a hardcore ballotage on who can enter PAL Expo. And in defense of the fool and the whole organizing committee of Watches and Wonders, they simply don't have the meters in Geneva during that week to add more boots and stands. But I always think in a macro perspective, it's an ecosystem, the more the better. So why are you lashing out at them? So apparently the organizer of Time and Time time to watch it. Sorry, this was an a Freudian slip to our dear friend Andrew McUchen, whom by the way needs to come back on the show. So mea culpa is my fault he has not been back on the show yet, but that's a sidestep back to Geneva the time to watch his fair. After two or three years being at head, the academic building in the middle of the city moved now to, I believe it's called Villa Saravan, which is literally a stone throw from the Palexpo, which is a good thing. But there's so much tension, there's so much ego and there's no cohesion. And I'm like, guys and gals, come on, we need to work together. Let's make watches relevant. So I'm kind of excited to see what's happening. You and I planned and booked, and our calendar is almost already full for the full five days that I'm there. So that's going to be an amazing roller coaster. I don't think we're going swimming, are we, Rob?
- [10:08]
Rob Nudds
I intend to. It's going to become my new daily activity every time I'm in Geneva.
- [10:12]
Alon Ben Joseph
Okay. I think I'll film you with your stiff nipples coming out of the water and I'll stay off the shores of Lake Le Mans.
- [10:18]
Rob Nudds
Okay. There's a lot of things that I will let slide on this show, but I'm just going to veto. Stiff nipples is something that we just don't say again. Okay, we'll leave it out there once we can get some feedback on it in the group. But Stiff nipples are no more on the Real Time show. Okay.
- [10:32]
Alon Ben Joseph
Maybe we can start an only fans page for just Rob's nipples. Who knows? You never know. Maybe we Spyllies will start making money on the show.
- [10:40]
Rob Nudds
I'm open to it.
- [10:43]
Alon Ben Joseph
We can do one for your mustache. Do you still have the mustache?
- [10:46]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, I've got the mustache, but I stupidly left my beard trimmer in England this time. Both of them, actually. So I'm now like cavorting around Copenhagen and Dragon Germany with an ever, ever increasing fuzz around my chin. So the mustache is disappearing, but it'll come back as soon as I get my trimmer back. I'm. I'm sticking with it for now.
- [11:05]
Alon Ben Joseph
You're going, you're biking out.
- [11:07]
Rob Nudds
I prefer the whole Tom Selleck look right now, but I'm like a mini Tom Selleck. But in between shaves, I do look a bit more Nordic. Yeah. Bit more Viking.
- [11:17]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah. Adapt to your surroundings. That's good. So back to the swimming in Geneva. So, April, boys and girls, listening. If you're contemplating coming out, it starts on Tuesday, the 1st of April, 2025. Rob and I will be there already on Monday. The show runs, I believe, till the 6th or 7th or Sunday. I believe. Time to watch is runs in parallel. And then a lot of brands are exhibiting again at the Bow Revage in all the hotels. So while filling up the calendar, all the brands reach out to us to plan meetings. But the funny thing is you now need to ask where are you? And to make a very efficient schedule. So that's a little annoying thing in that sense, to circle back to Basel World. That's what I miss about Basel World. Six gigantic, massive buildings, everybody meeting on the town square in front of Messer Hal Eins. And no, I never ate the hot dogs, so I don't miss them. The beers were good, so that's on the fair side of things. Now I'm probably not going to Inhogenta. I wasn't that impressed. Last year I attended Inho Genta, unfortunately. And that's what I wanted to ask you. Bob, I think I've missed you reporting back on Micropraja. So I've went to Prague the first time ever last year. Shame on me. Hanging out with our dear friends Banon Andraj and they are the organizer, Miko Praha. I wanted to come back in 24. I did not make it because it was the first weekend of December, if I'm not mistaken. But I'm really going to try to make it out in 25. I believe it's the last weekend of November that they're organizing it this year. Please, may I kick the mic back to you? Tell us a bit about, well, the fairy in your favorite city.
- [13:15]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, you're right. Prague is my favorite city and potentially a future home town of mine. That's at least one of the plans I have bouncing around my mind. And I would love to be part of the watch community there because it is really growing, thanks in large part to the efforts of not just Banu and Andra, but also Jan Lydmanski, who you'll find on Instagram. Watchthefood. He's a very prominent Czech publisher and most of the activities he partakes in regarding watches, really for his own amusement, for his hobby, but really to support and give life to the growing Czech Hidinki scene. Because if anyone doesn't know, Hidinki is Czech for watch, which is amusing when you're walking around the town and you see Hidinki, but with a Y not, not the E's plastered over every jeweler and boutique you stroll past. So yeah, we've got these, these big players now in the Czech scene. And Prague, although not a massive city, has got a very life and engaged community that makes Micro Praha and In fact, SCW the Salon Exceptional watches. The rather higher end fair in Prague, shall we say, which was hosted the week before Micro Praha this year. Very well attended and extremely exciting events to visit and I would recommend going to both. Prague is an accessible city and the accommodation is relatively cheap. The beer and food is available for a pittance and is exceptional. And it's just, I think the most beautiful Central European capital that there is, just my personal opinion. So we have not just these fairs happening, but we also have some very active and interesting retailers springing up. There's two that come to mind. One is the Watch Lounge which is being opened by Banu and Andre themselves. A place similar, although smaller in scale and scope than Time and Tide in London, but similar to that concept, where people have a space where they can come and experience mostly independent watches in quiet and a luxurious setting. And then for a more traditional but still slightly off the high street location, you can go to Chronoshop, which is just 100 meters away from the old square. And that's run by a guy called Jakob Civic who had a shop for many, many years which was unfortunately turned over by about a year ago and much of his stock was stolen and all of his friends rallied around him and all of his contacts from the industry came to his support, most notably Jan as well, like reaching out to everybody he could to get like some new stock in. Some favors called in special editions made for Jakob to restart his business and they've done so with aplomb. The new space is incredible. It's gorgeous. Again, it's just slightly off the high street. So you go through a door and up to like a. Not even a first floor level, it's kind of a 0.5 level. Security is therefore great. The setting is wonderful. The brands that have supported Jakob's new venture are diverse and interesting. And you'll also find more than your average number of special editions there. Because of exactly what Jan asked us all to do, Archinaut is doing something with them. I know that several of the brands that we've worked with in the past and had on the show were also making an effort to give them something special. So there is a family here and it is growing and it is really, really, really easy to get a sense of at the events now, the events themselves. SCW is really cool. There's a slightly higher end leaning to it. You've got brands like, well, Chapek and Ordain Robot, actually a Czech brand that I guess Alon. You've encountered this brand Before, Right.
- [16:56]
Alon Ben Joseph
Do you have any feelings on Robot besides that? Prague is a beautiful city and I was hanging out both with my dad. We did a father son trip and we hung out three days with my two friends and they took me all around town. So I couldn't have better guides for both history, architecture and watches. So I got a sneak preview of the robot Flieger Friday collab that the boys did while we were there. But first of all, what a lovely people, the Czech people. And talking about Yan. Yan is a rock star. Whenever we hang out with him basically at the Grand Ju, always in Geneva. This dude is crazy, but in a very good way. So fantastic people, the Czech people. Prague also amazing city wise. But I was blown away on what a high level, horological level. The city was retailer wise, the brand representations. And for me the hidden gem was robot so bad. And Andres took me there, we had a full blown meeting. Lovely store, the people are lovely and very, very cool watches. So talking about 25 could be that I'm actually so impressed that I want to retail the brand. So we're actually talking to them and it could be that when this show airs that we're actually representing the brand. So highly, highly recommended. They have a fresh take on watchmaking. So I was, I was, I was blown away. And not only about the Flieger Friday collab, but the whole holistic approach of them making watches and also their design. So, so very interesting.
- [18:42]
Rob Nudds
So let's just take it back to Micropraja itself because that is, to be honest, although a newer fare, probably the one that I would say was worth visiting more than the other. And that's because there's a lot of very interesting, a huge amount of very interesting up and coming independent brands, smaller, more affordable, but really exciting, interesting work being done this year we changed location. So last year it was in a hotel maybe 10 minutes away from Prague Florence, which is the bus station in the center of town. This time we were literally at the train station. So the train station is a rather old and grand building, as many of the buildings in Prague are. And it had this huge event hall, massively high ceilings, great space behind it for eating, drinking, entertaining. A lovely enormous bar which I believe was open to us on the first night. I say I believe because we did actually run out of beer because we drank all of their beer. So at that point we had to leave. But it was theoretically open bar all night and it was a great show. Everybody was smiling, everybody was having a wonderful time. There was maybe over the two days around 3,000 visitors, but we should probably confirm that exactly with Banu and Andre. It's an incredible event for brands really to get their watches in front of a lot of people per dollar spent. So just full disclosure, the tables at Micropraja are less than €1,000 for the weekend and that includes tickets for beer and snacks and whatnot. And you're allowed to invite VIP guests and everything for that kind of exposure. It's incredible value. And they've gone up a little bit from the first couple of years. I think they were 800 the first year, 900 last year, just under a thousand for 2025. And I've already signed up again because I think that it is exceptional. In fact, Alon, I mentioned to you the other day that not only would Archanaut like to go for a store, but perhaps we should have a real time show stand there as well. I mentioned it to Banu and he's all for us being present. So if people want to meet us and get involved with recordings, then keep your eyes on the Micro Praha brand list because we might find ourselves presenting there in person. What do you think about that?
- [21:03]
Alon Ben Joseph
I would think that's a blast. So the TRTS fam, the TRTS community, please start voting in our WhatsApp community. If you're listening and you're not part of the community, please join. Don't be scared. We are not snobby there, we're not snooty, we're not arrogant. It's a really laid back community having a lot of fun. So if you want to join the TRTS community, please send us a DM email or whatever channel you want to reach us and we'll send you a link to join our WhatsApp community. So I, I am all for it. I'm actually looking forward to it. This is maybe a good segue. Rob, any. Well, I know you're going to visit a lot of other fairs, maybe mention them, because I assume you're going to do some British ones.
- [21:52]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, I will be doing some British fairs, but just before we go on to that rundown, the first thing I would like our listeners to vote on is what kind of merchandise they'd like us to have at the show. Because we're thinking T shirts, we're thinking hoodies, we're thinking caps, but is there anything else that people would like us to bring? So 2025 fares. I think the first thing that's on the calendar is most likely the British Watchmakers Day in March, where we are again, official Media sponsors, so that will be very fun. If you would like to go to that event, please just mention that on the chat and we have some interesting information for you that we can share privately in the TRTS network thereafter. I think we've got Watches and Wonders, which is coming around at the start of April again, there's a few of fair. There's a few fairs in America this year that I'm definitely going to skip out on because I'm back and forth across the Atlantic far too often for my liking. So the fewer planes I can get on, the better. I would love to be up in Helsinki for the Finish Watch show because that's one of my favorites, I'd say, alongside Micro Praha, it's in the top two of the year. And then later on in the year, of course, we have Geneva watch days again. What edition will it be now? Is it the fifth or the sixth?
- [23:06]
Alon Ben Joseph
I believe the sixth, but I lost count.
- [23:09]
Rob Nudds
It's become an absolutely integral part of the calendar, hasn't it? It's become something that we couldn't really do without later on in the year, of course, we've got the two Prague events and then there's going to be Watch Pro Salon, which I'll attend again as a visitor, but not as an exhibitor. It turned out last time that I ended up exhibiting on the stand anyway. I helped out Fortis because they were a colleague down for the second day, so I ended up just doing a stint with them. But that's not really work. It's always lovely to hang out with my friends from Fortis. And after that I would say that that's enough, isn't it? We can crawl home into our little beds and hibernate and think about, well, the end of the year 2025. It makes it feel. Now you've made me go through that. Now you've made me run through all of the things that are coming up in the year because each one is only separated by a few weeks from the one before it. It feels like we're already in December. I feel like the year's about to end. Something just started.
- [24:00]
Alon Ben Joseph
It is. It started so volatile and fast and it feels like we're in deep in2025. I hope I've answered Ryan's question. If you want to know Rob's answer to this question, go back a few episodes, one of the first of 2025, where he jams with Scarlet. Going from Ryan, should we go to our hardcore, dedicated TRTS fan and supporter Richard Swords in the Trts network.
- [24:36]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, of course, yeah. I mean, Richard gives us so many questions. He's basically a mainstay on every Q and A session that we have and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's incredible to have so many insightful and smart, well worded questions to address. And this one is one that I think will be interesting for many, many people listening to the show, definitely.
- [24:54]
Alon Ben Joseph
So thank you, Richard. He sent in the question, where would you go for a custom strap?
- [24:59]
Rob Nudds
Well, it's a good one, it's an expansive answer or potentially expensive. There's loads and loads of options. Right, so custom is the key word here. It's not a replacement strap. It's not like, oh, who sells good aftermarket straps? Like, what's a good value to quality ratio? Is Hirsch all it's made out to be? I'd say yeah, it's pretty good brand actually, if you want just a good bog standard replacement over the counter. But custom, custom, custom is key. And there are plenty of great strap makers out there these days, far more than there were 10 years ago who are offering some really good products for reasonable prices. I'm going to start in reverse order. I have three answers. One of them is a bit of a curveball and extremely specific to a certain type of watch. And that's the first one I'm going to suggest and that's Yellow Dog watch straps. Now this is a bit of a throwback to the earliest days of my career when the only luxury watch that I had was a SIN Hydro ux, the oil filled diver. And I wanted a black Zulu strap for it, to be honest. A black rubber Zulu. And Yellow Dog now works with fabric as well, but in the past only worked with this extremely industrial type of rubber. It wasn't ideal for straps at all, actually. It was pretty nasty. It would leave like black marks on your wrist and it smelled like a. Smell like the rubber factory. I grew up next to you when I was a kid, actually. It's an incredible scent. It, it doesn't really smell safe, but it was evocative, shall we say. For me, I loved it. I have four of those straps. I've worn them on all sorts of things. I had them on the Hydro UX. I've still got one on my Bremont S500. I did wear one on my Speedmaster 1998 Broad Arrow for quite some time, would you believe. And the other one, I think it spent time on my Laco Scorpion Squads Amazonas. So they are, you can tell from the watches that I've chosen there with perhaps the Speedmaster being the curveball. They are tough, rugged military style straps, extremely industrial, not the most refined in terms of luxurious elegance, but certainly very well made and really good value for money. They look great on things like submariners or iwc, big pilots, that kind of thing. So check out that website if you get the chance. Chance it's Yellow Dog Watch straps. I'll just. It is yellow dog watchstraps.com based in the UK so if you're a UK listener then no worries about shipping. If you're not, then yeah, just check that out before you do. Order from Alex is the name of the guy behind it. Second choice zipping across Europe to I think Romania is a brand called Genteel or Gentile Handmade that's G E N T E E L handmade and the website is g-e n t E-E-L-Handmade.com now the quality of leather here is a cut above. The finishing is extremely good. You can get straps made to fit several different types of buckles. I have found the fit and finished of everything I've, I've ever ordered from Gentil Handmade to be exceptional and I really mean exceptional. It, it stands out like it's miles, miles better than the standard leather straps that you would find on in my opinion like a Omega Aqua Terra, certainly like in that kind of ballpark. And the straps are yeah, more pricey than something like the Yellow Dog options that may be 150, 200 depending on the level of customization. But you can change the stitching color, you can change the ed finishing, you can have special numbers, dates, initials stamped onto the back. I got my sister in law a beige leather strap with gold stamp of her wedding day dates for her leather anniversary. That's right. So she wears that on the nonwas club campus that I got her for her wedding. I got both her and my brother a club campus when they got married. So you know you can get creative with it. You can mark special occasions with these straps and the just the number of leathers and the incredible colors that they have here is just brilliant. I could not recommend these guys enough. Probably my number one choice personally. The third suggestion is one that many of you will know for its association with Studio Underdog. And that's the strap tailor. I have one strap from the strap tailor but I didn't order it myself. It was a present uh, one of our listeners bought for me. Of course, the great, the esteemed wall. He bought me a gray suede with orange stitching custom made. And it had to be custom for my Czech Antarctic because Waki was one of the people that bought the model I worked on with Xavier and company back in 2021, I think it was. So he owns the Czapek Antarctic viridian green Fratello limited edition and he made for me and himself and for one of our mutual friends who also bought the watch, a gray suede orange stitch strap from the strap tailor. And the reason why that was impressive is because the lugs on the Antarctic are anything but standard. So the strap notches in so it fits in a lug and then flares out so that its edges follow the edges of the case. It's a really nicely done thing. Comes with a little buckle with the cool strap Taylor logo engraved into it. And I can't really recommend these guys enough in terms of what they're able to do, the levels they'll go to to create a good finish and to provide a satisfying product. And knowing how good quality these straps are and what they cost on the aftermarket on and what they cost to actually buy, getting one on a studio underdog is an absolute steal. So yeah, those are my three recommendations. I will kick the mic over to you and shut the heck up.
- [30:59]
Alon Ben Joseph
Well, please don't because I'm actually learning a lot again on the Real Time show one another reason why I love this show so much and I have, I wouldn't dare to say a fetish for leather because all of you will start thinking wrong stuff and you'll link it to Rob's nipples in Lake Le Mans. So I love, love leather, leather straps, belts, shoes. So very early on, already in the 90s, we used to be the sole partner for Camille Fourne and they used to produce almost all the straps for all the Richemont brands. I even had a amazing alligator belt made matching my watch straps. So they used to do that stuff. They had offices in Paris, Milano, so I even visited them in Milano. Today they still exist. I think they pivoted more towards a B2C. So they have physical boutiques. They have a Parisian boutique. So if you're in Paris, you're lucky because you don't have one but two options to get your strap made locally. Camille Fournet is at Rue Cambon 5, but the King of Kings is a BP Atelier du Braslet Parisien located at Saint Honore, number 30. So a mandatory visit in Paris when you do a retail safari for watches is obviously Chronopassion located at the same street. So make sure you go check out ABP because there's nothing that's more fun than touching the hides. Or today you have amazing vegan options, so straps made from apples and full leather, etc. But if you don't have the option to go to Paris, try to find local strap makers. And if one that Rob mentioned is not near you, you'll have a lot of options because in the Netherlands he he calmed down a bit. It's called D Strap. Cool guy makes awesome stuff and there are a lot of options. Now maybe one that doesn't do so much customization but seems to become a brand of its own is D Lugs. I've never met him, but it seems he's very active and actually a lot of watch brands are now teaming up with him to create custom made straps. So that's interesting. And your local retailer might also offer customization options of straps as well. So definitely try to mix things up. Richard, I think you should make a custom strap. I know you're based in Switzerland so you have a lot of options there to get them made. And a little tip for all of you, if you are a bit hesitant on getting replacement straps oem, don't be too confined in your own OCD mental prison because a little trade secret, no watchmaker makes their own straps. So reflect on that for two minutes. And it's not that important to have that hot stamp of a brand in your strap. And putting a different strap on your watch creates a new experience. It's as if you have a new strap. We often say hey, new shoes for your watch or and or new alloys for your car. But it's more than that because if you think about it, it's almost 50% of the real estate on your wrist is not just the dial or the case. But a strap is so, so, so important. So please do share all your custom straps in the TRTS community when you're listening to this episode. Thank you Richard again for the awesome questions. Going from Richard to another fanatic TRTS community member, Leopold in Vienna. He sent a mailbag idea and he writes, has progress in movement technology arrived at a point where the returns for the consumer are not useful anymore? Are in fact returns ever diminishing to the point of being meaningless even for the hardcore enthusiasts? Have they merely become a reason for fresh marketing dribble and to jack up prices even further? He gives an example. The 3000 series movement by Rolex are a reference point for me. I do not mean to pick on Rolex. There may be Better examples he puts in brackets on paper. The 3200 caliber family of by Rolex may be an improvement over the 3100 generation. In reality, isn't the 3100 robust and accurate enough? I'd like a lively discussion on that from our hosts. Again, this is not about Rolex. It's about the notion of progress for progress's sake, sustainability, corporate responsibility, truth in advertising, and so forth. Boom. Rob, the honor is yours. Good luck, mate.
- [37:14]
Rob Nudds
With every syllable of that question, I felt the spring within myself being wound tighter and tighter and tighter and I just could not wait to get going. Fundamentally though, although there's a lot to say and I'm sure we will say a lot on the topic, the answer is simple. I think yes is the answer. There are ever diminishing returns. It it is not as valuable to the consumer to have these extremely minimal incremental timekeeping improvements in a mechanical watch, which is, regardless of, you know, how good it is in lab conditions, always subject to the forces and impacts, literal and figurative, of the daily wear. There's, there's nothing you can do to guarantee a movement in the wild running as it should in lab conditions. There's nothing you can do about it. I mean, you can, you can obviously take as many precautions as you can. You can use materials like silicon for a hairspring that's going to reduce the effective temperature changes on the watch, is going to make the spring completely rust free. But also when you trade that off, you end up with the possibility of it shattering, which you never would have had with Nivrox or even steel. So there's all these trade offs. Most of them are made so that there is something to put on the top line of a press release. That sounds very cynical, but it is also probably very true, or certainly very true. We know that much, at least. Yes, we want progress, but not necessarily for progress's sake. And there's too much of that in watchmaking, too much of that from the major brands who focus on the watchmaking side of things, the refinement of very basic watchmaking, as if that is the be all and end all. Now, when you've got incredible mechanisms being created by minds such as Stephen McDonald's working with MB&F on the perpetual calendar and reimagining the entire setting mechanism so that it became far more user friendly, that's newsworthy developments. That's the formula one of watchmaking that can trickle down into the lower ends and inform the rest of us of how to do the basic things Better someone making a slight tweak to, I don't know, the profile of a bridge and then claiming that it improves the stability of the movement and therefore improves the timekeeping is just selling snow to a snowman. You know, it's, it's just not necessary. It's just a joke and don't get sucked in by it. I'd much rather see innovation in areas of aesthetics. I'd much rather see the design come to the fore. Our movements now, they are good enough. Even basic calibers from Seiko or Myota or Citizen, they're good enough. You know, they are good enough. They keep time as much as we need them to, given the fact we're surrounded by digital timekeepers and quartz powered timekeepers and atomic power timekeepers in our daily lives relentlessly. The watch, as Biver mentioned all those years ago, it's an object of desire, it's an object of expression. Yes, it should be able to keep the time and it should be able to keep it handily, but it doesn't necessarily have to keep it down to the split second. Nobody's expecting a mechanical watch to be accurate to a jiffy. You know, they reckon that it's good enough. If it's maybe gaining, you know, 10, 15, 20 seconds a day, it's fine. You have to set it once a week. Okay, fine. But if you're into watches, you probably collect watches. You probably have more than one. You probably don't wear the same watch day in, day out. I certainly don't. I actually get to the point where the timekeeping parameters of my watch is almost irrelevant because if I frequently I change the watches, I don't give them enough time on the wrist for them to run out of, run out of, run out of tolerance. So that's one way to look at it. If you are an avid collector, then what is most important to you? And if you're not an avid collector, you're not likely to be caring so much about the incremental improvements in inverted commas that Rolex and brands like it have been making to these bog standard automatic workhorse calibers. So I want to see innovation elsewhere. I want to see the money spent on creating something like Colloquium or Space one or an ordain, like invest in a craft, like look at what an ordain has done. They've brought back an almost extinct craft on the British Isles to make it now not just the central tenet of a brand and not just the, the career of these young enamels, but something for Which Scotland, in the grand scheme of things, which is a small grand scheme, but in the scheme of watchmaking, is now known, is known for it, because an ordain rebirthed that talent through investment, through patience, and through a vision which they stuck to, that is valuable, that is far more important to the craft and soul of watchmaking than one or two ticks a day. What do you think, Alan?
- [42:03]
Alon Ben Joseph
Beautiful. Poetry, truth, philosophy. You're there. You have more coffee than I. And good on you. Now, I don't have much to add, but I feel you, Leopold. I understand where you're coming from. I agree. I agree with Rob. That being said, it doesn't mean that all R and D budgets should be killed, stopped or frozen, but it should indeed not be done as a marketing spiel and definitely not be done, as Rob said, selling snow to Eskimos or you use another phrase. But the. I believe that there's this game going on in the watch industry just for the sake of it. Because they're fairs or they feel they need to bring something new, they just make up mumbo jumbo, marketing mumbo jumbo. Or they're under such pressure. You know what? It's okay if you don't have anything. Just skip six months, skip a year. And if you go to trade fairs. Trade fairs used to be for the trade. Today they're becoming more and more B2C events. Fine. So even if it's a consumer event and not even a B2B event, because at the B2B events, people come to buy and it's okay when you say, hey, guys, we want to take it easy. We want to consolidate. We don't want to put pressure on you. We don't want to fill up your stocks that are already bursting at the seams like our mailbag here at trts. So we're just doing a consolidation year. So same goes for R and D and technology. We saw a big trend and jump in. First, silicon. A lot of silicon being implemented in watches. That often led to less maintenance, but also sometimes more power reserve. That seems now the biggest trend. A lot of brands feel that pressure and they're cutting corners. So they're trying to amp up this power reserve. But that either causes quality control issues, it causes that they're not as reliable as they hoped. They don't give themselves enough time to test the product, and it's simply not good enough. So then don't do it. So those are maybe my 2 cents to add a little bit to. Actually, Rob's great analysis. A question we Received from Jonathan Weiss. He sent a direct message on Instagram. Recently I've discovered Scandinavian watchmaking. We all know Scandinavian design and furniture and jewelry. What are your opinions about the watches especially? And what are your favorite brands watchmakers in that region? So I'm very eager to answer this first, if I may, Rob, because you're not objective. You are now in Scandinavia while we record this.
- [45:22]
Rob Nudds
I'm basically Scandinavian.
- [45:24]
Alon Ben Joseph
Well, the way you look, you are indeed a Viking. But. But you are of course affiliated to not one, but two or three Scandinavian brands. So I'm gonna go first. I love design that was instilled in me by my parents, not only, of course, in jewelry and furniture and watches, because that's what we surround ourselves almost 247 with. My dad always loved modern design. Although he comes from the Middle east, he always loved Dutch design and Danish design. So as a kid he early on took us to Rivoli and obviously Copenhagen. And he loved Jacob Jensen and Laponia. He respected as a philosophy and what they did very nature inspired jewelry. But Jacob Jensen was very sleek and modern. So that also instilled my love for those shapes and forms. Now watches, you also had Jacob Jensen watches. And that was it. And then we had a great renaissance in I guess the 80s, 85. And one that stands out for me that I love and actually I still don't own one is Sapaneva. And by the way, I'm still waiting for my Archonaut watch. I'm Morob, but that's very modern. So going back, you obviously have Sven Anderson, you have Jorgensen, which is very cool. Going back to Sapaneva, he obviously has a slightly more affordable brand called Suf, which very cool, very minimalistic tool, esque to the point of high quality. And another one that I recently discovered is Micro Mil Spec, kind of very contemporary, but gives you those old 90s, even 80s Porsche Design X IWC watches. Very cool, cool cats to the point. So I personally love what the Scandies are doing. And the last one I'm gonna I want to give a shout out is Straum. Of course I still don't have one, but I'm Quite sure in 25 it's one that I'll add to my personal collection. So Rob, I want to hear your favorites besides the ones that you're affiliated with.
- [48:12]
Rob Nudds
Okay? So I need to probably rattle those off if people aren't already aware first. I can't believe you've not got a Straum. And we should talk about you being the representative of Straum. In the Netherlands, because that would be an ideal fit. But we'll do that off air. But yeah, business happening in real time, listeners. This is something that I think would work very nicely. So I am involved with Straum. I've worked with them firstly as a journalist, just as a friend of the brand for the first couple of years Now I do a little bit of product development with the team and we have some exciting stuff coming up later this year. Obviously my biggest involvement when it comes to Scandinavia is Archanaut, of which I'm a co owner. It's where I am right now in the Archonaut HQ in Copenhagen. And for Archonaut I do all the, well, brand development and watchmaking. Now they're my two major biases out of the way. It feels like I'm in Scandinavia even more though, because obviously through my involvement with Fortis, I went to Sweden twice to the Swedish Space Corporation s range about 40 km north of Kiruna to partake in the stratospheric balloon tests and then the rocket launch the year after. My surname is actually Danish, derives from Knusen, which is where. Where my family must have originated at some point or been based at some point in the distant, distant past. My temperament is also surprisingly Danish. I don't know if you ever heard of Berserkers, but they were the. The crazy little buggers that they would wind up and send off into battle to obliterate enemy forces who were known for being surprisingly calm when not in a fighting situation, but then when threatened they become Honey Badger esque, which of course is one of my nicknames from the Swatch group. So there's Scandinavian influences running through me in all ways and I absolutely adore this part of the world. I would love to live here. Probably will do, almost effectively do at the moment with the amount of time I'm spending in Copenhagen. So what else? I suppose I should also say I've been involved with Micro Mil Spec, not in an official capacity, but very close friends with the team since the early days and watched with great pride as Dave Sergeant Fratello worked with them on the delivery of the Milgraf, which is, to be fair, probably the best chronograph you can buy in terms of bang to buck ratio on the market right now, Although I believe this year's complement is sold out. But keep your eyes peeled on the Micromill Spec website because there'll be some collaborations and interesting pieces coming out in that collection and others in the near future. So going back to the question, leaving My biases aside for now, because if you're interested in checking out Archanaut and Straum and Micro mil spec, then go ahead and do that. I wholeheartedly encourage you. I don't think you'll be disappointed, but there's even more going on. So, yeah, of course, Sapaneva and Vuitter Linen are, you know, right up there with legends. Certainly the pair of them, I think, will have their names mentioned in years to come. So we have these masters in Finland. You won't be disappointed with any of their stuff. The Suf line from Saponieva has the occasional banger, but for me, it's the stuff under his own name that is really worth pursuing. I love his case shape. I think it's so important to have an identifiable case silhouette. I've said this my entire career. It's not exactly a hot take. I think everybody would agree that if you've got a watch that can be identified from 20 paces, then you're doing something right. You know, that that becomes your brand ambassador. That is what everybody should be searching for. You don't want something generic. You don't want a silhouette that's just going to fade into the background. You don't want to look across the room and wonder if it's a Saab and then wander closer and find out that it's a Steinhardt, et cetera, et cetera. You're not going to mistake a Sarpaneva for anything. It's absolutely great work. One little brand which uses the techniques I was talking about earlier, installed by an ordain here in Copenhagen, is Vitrium. Now, I don't know if you've heard of these guys, but they are a Danish brand making very affordable enamel watches in small batches with beautiful colors on the dial. Some very complex engraving. They're not, I would say, quite as refined yet as an ordained, but they're certainly moving in the right direction. They are affordable for what they are. They use an unusual typeface, which is something we obviously obsess over a great deal here at the Real Time show, so I would encourage people to check them out. Absolutely. Of course. We have GOs in Sweden run by Patrick G O S, uses incredible colors, great materials, inspired heavily by the Northern lights. For me and other brands that we don't talk about very often, and I'm going to butcher the pronunciation because we have, you know, we have the Swedish Mafia in the Real Time show network, including people like Christopher, Hannah, Sana Vu, Lydia, and apologies if I've forgotten anybody else. Who's a part of this cohort up there in Stockholm and the surrounding area. But I'm just going to have to try and say it, but Sue Sandstrom is sj o o space S a n D S T R O m with accents I don't know what to do with all over the place. But they have had one really great watch in the history that was the royal capital. I believe it's sold out now, but there's always the potential for them to come back with something really cool. And I would keep an eye on those guys as well. Yeah, I mean, stuff is happening in this region of the world. It's not quite as evolved a market yet as the British scene. Scarlett and I touched upon the diversity within the British watchmaking alliance, which has almost enabled them to band together and operate as a single unit without treading on each other's toes. I think that the scope for the Scandinavians to do the same is. Is growing. I think that in a year or two there will be so much more press about these brands that it will reach a point of critical mass where we will start to see modern Scandinavian watchmaking as extolling the very best things of Scandinavian culture. And we all know that the Scandinavians and the Nordics, of course, because Finland technically is a Nordic country rather than Scandinavian, it is design. And they're bringing this huge design clout into the watchmaking space and creating separation between them and brands outside of the northern climes that I think will ultimately result in a strong enough independent character to move as one. And if they band together and start even more events, I mean, the Finnish watch show, like I referenced earlier, it's an incredible event. It's in Helsinki, based in a great location. You get brands, not just Scandi brands, but not just Nordic brands either. Just all of them from around the world. Up and coming. Independence is where I actually met Martin Clocker of Sherpa for the first time, where the first connection between TRTS and Martin began. And look at the relationship that sprung from that chance meeting and then your chance meeting with him in a taxi in Geneva. You know, it was serendipitous the way that it all fell into our lap. But this is. This is a great moment in time for this part of the world. I think that there is enough differentiation between what the Nordic brands are doing. Oh, actually, there's one more we've got to mention since we're talking about Scandinavia Iceland JS watch. I don't know if you know these guys, but they've Got a client list like you wouldn't believe. If you go on their website and go on like their customers list, you'd be dumbfounded at the amount of people who have bought into this brand. I mean, you've got people like, okay, here's, here's, here's some of them. Jeff Daniels, Nick Cave, Gordon Ramsay, Ed Sheeran, Ben Stiller, Tom Cruise, Kit Harrington, Dennis Quaid, Quentin Tarantino, Eli Roth, Mads Mikkelsen, Jude Law, Vinnie Jones, Toby Maguire, Ian Anderson, Elvis Costello, Viggo Mortensen, the Dalai Lama, Kate Couric, Yoko Ono, Sean Lennon, His Majesty, King Constantine ii, Lewis Black, Cintra Jacobici, Richard Quest, Chris Van Roh, Steve Spangler, David James and Herman Reidas, Alan Robert the Climber. That's cool. Rory Rose Garden, Helga Thomason and Goran Peterson. Okay, I read them all because it's just an incredible list of global and more regional stars that have bought into the JS watch. Now there's one watch from JS that I really love and that's the SIF, not 1948 in black, which is as green loom. And the 3 o'clock date hidden between the two points of the number three itself, which is, I think, an extremely elegant solution. Although some people might find it a bit cluttered. I think it's fantastic. But what I love most about JS is the advertising campaigns. They're a little old school, shall we say. It's a funny little shtick that they have. They have the, the old patriarch of the family surrounded by his sons who are all in the company. And the general premise is the watchmaker. The patriarch will be looking at a watch with his loop while the other three boys are staring at a woman in a bikini. Or something along the lines of this, like I say, maybe a bit anachronistic, but also a lot of fun because they just clearly don't take themselves too seriously. They know their audience, they know that the people they're selling to find that kind of thing amusing. And it's all, I think, quite light hearted fun really, that we probably shouldn't get too head up about. So there you go. What a list. What a list of brands that we've got coming out of this region that really, to be honest, not many people would associate with, with watchmaking. But they've got their shtick and it's design.
- [58:08]
Alon Ben Joseph
Thank you. I love it. I actually didn't know JS watch, so I was searching them while listening to you. And again, I learned something new during this episode. How cool is this episode. But these guys are epic. They write probably the world's smallest watch manufacturer and great pictures. So love it. I'm going to do a deep dive on them. So, Rob, thank you very much.
- [58:30]
Rob Nudds
My pleasure. And at that point, I guess we've plenty of research for everybody listening to the show to do. If any of those brands were new to any of the ears trained on us right now, we should close the episode. If you have any questions for us to replenish the mailbag, then please do get in touch. You can do so via Instagram. You can find Scarlet there at Scarl in the Shire. That's s c a r l I n t h e s h I r e alon Is there a l o n b e n j o s e p h. You can find David at D a v a u c h e r and me at r o b n u d d S. You can contact Alon, David or me via our email addresses. Just add our first names to herealtime show or via the contact form on the website www.therealtime.show. we'll be back soon with more interviews with Watchmaking's finalist and some top quality watch content driven by you, the community. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.