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- [00:00]
Ben
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Alon
Watch fans and welcome to another edition of the Real Time Show. This is a very special show because this is the first official TRTS meetup with the members of the community. We actually met up in Amsterdam. They're here almost the whole week. We are in the Netherlands. The members have visited Holtierichs, they visited Van der Klau, and I'm going to ask these TRTS members all five questions, the same question. So we'll chop it up, play them one after the other, and they are allowed to ask me a question. So this is a test run. I hope you enjoy it. Have fun. So the first member I actually pulled into my office where we are in Amsterdam is Ben. Welcome, Ben.
- [01:00]
Ben
Hi, Alan. I'm excited. So much so that I forgot how to continue. First question.
- [01:07]
Alon
So one of the first questions of the five that we're going to ask all the members that are here. Please do introduce yourself.
- [01:14]
Ben
Well, my name is Ben, as you rightly said. So. And I, I am criminologist and criminal intelligence analyst. I work for German police. And in the last, let's say, three years, I have educated myself in watchmaking, attending school with Schronhoven, the Dutch watchmaking school. For a year now, I've been at the British Horological Institute for some courses. And at Groenerklide, it's Kalle Slaap who does also a very nice YouTube show and has spaces for watch nerds who would like to learn more about the technical aspects. And so did I.
- [02:06]
Alon
That's actually amazing because I didn't know that last two parts. Could we say that with your busy day job where you literally connect the dots between a lot of touch points, I would even call you a living LLM, an AI. Does watchmaking bring tranquility for you?
- [02:26]
Ben
Absolutely. It is really in the rare moments that I find during the week that I sit down at my bench. I have a small workshop actually at home that I completely switch off everything else and need to concentrate on what I'm doing with the watches because, yeah, I'm so inexperienced still that I completely have to focus. But that's at the same time, indeed at Tranquility, I don't know. But it calms down, relaxes because it again switches off everything else.
- [03:07]
Alon
How many hours a week do you spend on the bench?
- [03:10]
Ben
Two to three. So not much. That's max, I would say.
- [03:15]
Alon
Do you repair or do you also want to do or do you create stuff?
- [03:20]
Ben
No, I don't create and that's definitely no intention of mine. The idea from the Beginning was that. So at some point I realized I'm collector. It was a shocking experience to realize I have more than three watches, I have more than five. And at some point I realized at some point in time these need to be serviced. And if you're Talking more than five, even more than 10 watches, this is going to be expensive. So again, at some point in time I thought this can't be rocket science. Well, it's very close to. But no, not seriously. But for me as a non technical guy, it was quite a. Quite a challenge. It still is quite a challenge. And yeah, for that reason the idea was that I can at some point, at some point repair service my own watches. That was the idea behind. But now I find myself in the weird situation. I never deliberately told anyone really but somehow people realize they do this and now colleagues are coming to me and bring their watches.
- [04:39]
Alon
And you fixed them?
- [04:40]
Ben
Well one I did and well, I properly fixed. I properly serviced a Porsche design. That was my first project. I have a Chopin lying on my bench now. I'm very. I have a lot of respect for that now, but I did a lot of like cleaning, changing batteries, changing watch straps and the small kind of stuff.
- [05:05]
Alon
Chopa Luc or is it in a workhorse with an bought in caliber?
- [05:11]
Ben
It's. It's a workhorse caliber. It's a millimelia three hander.
- [05:17]
Alon
Yeah.
- [05:17]
Ben
So with iter it's Ita. Yeah, yeah. I forgot the exact caliber, but yeah, yeah, it's you.
- [05:28]
Alon
You can do it. I believe in you.
- [05:30]
Ben
Well, I did ETA 2892, 2824 I did a few old cycle movements so I have like at least a bit of. I see where the similarities are. I do see where the boundaries are.
- [05:56]
Alon
Let'S say so amazing. Talking of Schonhofer, you are then walking the grounds while graduate Eric Valewa is there. Did you encounter him another TRTS member?
- [06:11]
Ben
No, that I wouldn't know because you.
- [06:16]
Alon
Do the evening course, I assume.
- [06:17]
Ben
I do the evening course. That's with. Well, don't know if I may name. Jaap is the teacher. Yeah, of course you can of our course. That was again fantastic experience, really fun. Also great course in the sense of the other participants. Super nice people. And funny enough I didn't think of that or didn't expect. I got there as a hobbyist and I kind of expected that the others would be similarly just or mostly doing it for fun. But actually 3/4 at least of the course. They did the course for professional reasons, to change jobs or to improve themselves. So it was super interesting and for everybody, a good experience to learn from each other.
- [07:13]
Alon
Very cool. Second question, how did you find trts?
- [07:20]
Ben
We talked about the questions very briefly before and I thought about it and I have no idea anymore. I listened to quite some podcasts, obviously.
- [07:33]
Alon
To.
- [07:37]
Ben
The Daily show from Boo Bui and Lydia Winters, which I like very much. It's very entertaining. From time to time I listen into Hodinki Fratello. Yeah, what comes away? But I think. What's V and Lia's.
- [08:00]
Alon
I forgot. I forgot.
- [08:02]
Ben
They're part of the this Watch Life. Of course.
- [08:04]
Alon
This Watch Life. And they are part of the TRTS network.
- [08:07]
Ben
Exactly. So this Watch Life and TRTS are the only two that I frequently hear. So. But, but how. How I started, I don't know anymore.
- [08:19]
Alon
So you are a total watch nut. You digest a lot of content. Watch content. How does TRTS stand out or why do you like it so much that you're.
- [08:33]
Ben
I very much appreciate that you are real professionals, but that you bring actual professional experience into the conversation. Not to mention. Or it's. It's of course also when. When watch journalists talk about the stuff that they are all professionals, that's without question, but they have a different perspective and your perspective, I mean, you are creating content, you are creating media now as well. But foremost, first and foremost, you and Rob, you are professionals from the industry. And that is a different perspective that I very much appreciate.
- [09:19]
Alon
Thank you for that. How do you enjoy the TRTS community? So for our dear listeners that maybe are not familiar, we have a community. We congregate on WhatsApp, which is a WhatsApp community. We have six or seven sub channels today already. How did you find it and how do you enjoy the community?
- [09:38]
Ben
I found it through the podcast. So at some point I contacted you and Rob was, well, friendly enough to put me into the group. So that step was comparatively easy. I enjoy very much because of course not like every day, but frequently interesting topics are discussed and well, again, there's a lot of. I won't say bullshit, but there's a lot of like, banter going on, which is fun, but there are also serious topics. And there's again and again, like every other day, I learn something new by reading what members of the community are writing. So it's, it's fun. And yeah, again, you live, you learn. I find it very nice.
- [10:38]
Alon
Are you in other communities? Watch collecting communities?
- [10:42]
Ben
Nope, that's the only one.
- [10:43]
Alon
It's the only one, yes. Interesting. What kind of watches do you collect and why.
- [10:50]
Ben
That's a good question. Actually I was the other day I was triggered by by a similar question from this watch life when they they had at some point very very early in in their in their show the the topic of of turning Point watches I think they call it. And I thought about this myself and so I I since my my since school days I have like not nice ish mechanical watches deliberately bought because it's a nice watch. I started with the first swatch automatic in 1991 and then it continued and up to Tudor Pilargos. That was my last one watch collection. And then the next watch I bought I do not exactly remember the precise reasons anymore was an animal bronze millimetri puluche version. Beautiful watch still have it. And from there on I started collecting anonymous watches. I found I don't know why this well, there are a few reasons. The the. The brand is interesting. The very brief extremely brief history is is interesting and I like the the. The style and the the purposefulness. Is that a word of the watch is very nice. And since then I'm collecting and well now I moved on a little bit. I reduced the number of at some point I had I think 14 or 15 anonymous. Now I'm down to five or six. Six. And that's fine. And in parallel and again it's hard to say in hindsight how I'm collecting luxury cycle, hence old king cycle and grand cycle and cradle collecting is a big word. I think I do have to consider myself a collector having definitely more than 10 watches I think in total with the 6 anonymous and various psychos I have like 1516 ish.
- [13:22]
Alon
Thank you for sharing. My definition always is if you have more than two, you're a collector. So it's not about the quantity and not even the quality. It's about the passion.
- [13:34]
Ben
Absolutely.
- [13:35]
Alon
So thank you so much for Ben for visiting hanging out this whole week coming here in front of the mic. So bonus on the show is do you have a question for Rob? And I.
- [13:54]
Ben
Tried to distill it a little bit so it doesn't really matter for what reason exactly you are doing the podcast. Vu and Lydia for example, doing their podcast or Flatello is doing the podcast. Sometimes it's for pure passion, sometimes it's for. Yeah it's also part of a business model and that's totally appreciated. But I'm actually wondering what was your idea? Is it purely for sharing the passion or do you also have like something in mind how to develop this as sort of part of a business model?
- [14:41]
Alon
Thank you for that question. It started as sheer, sheer passion. Rob and I have been buddies. We met through the trade while he was at Nomos. I was retelling Nomos. That's how we connected at Baselworld. I remember that day vividly. Yes, it was love at first sight. It was chemistry.
- [15:02]
Ben
It's nice.
- [15:03]
Alon
Sparks flying around, and you hear my answer. Ben is still sitting next to me. The idea was to record it separately, but otherwise, I forget the question. And those that know me, if you want something done, you ask me, and I do it immediately. So Rob and I always stayed buddies. Even when he left Nomos, he went to Fratello. And from there we actually, when he was at Nomos, my first ever podcast trial was with Rob. So my podcasting roots lie 100% with Rob. While he was at Fratello, he interviewed me in writing, also podcasts with Ace. I interviewed him for the Aesthetist Live. I did an interview with him for the Ace Jewelers podcast. So the physical chemistry that we had as friends also translated to media in writing, on the mic, and on video. So I was walking around with the idea, what should I do with the evolution of both the Ace Judas Podcast and the ACE List videos? I was recording because it grew into such a platform that I was inviting brands that I wasn't retailing as a retailer, and that confused my community. So with that in mind, I said, you know what? I need to have an outlet for my huge passion for watches and watchmaking that is bigger than Ace. So I pitched the idea to Rob, and when he left Fratello, the stars aligned. And we just said, let's do it without a business model, without a strategy, mission, or vision. We just sat down, started jamming, recording, and it worked because we had a huge following immediately, a lot of downloads, a lot of feedback. The community was built. And I think we do things differently. We are rather agile. We got the feedback from the community very early on that people love the fact that we are independent. We say what we think and we do what we say. So that caused a problem because that means we can't sell content. There's no editorial to stay objective. We can't sell anything, no product. So we can't become retailers because brands do want to work with us. The only concession, and I wouldn't even call it a concession, is we co design watches, but we don't retail them. So we design watches, they're collapse, but the brand sells them, and we get a commission on that, and we're fully transparent about that. We don't think it's conflict of interest. That's where we're at today. A lot of listeners want us to do videos, so we're thinking about it. If you have more tips, feedback demands or requests, hit us up.
- [18:06]
Rob
So I'll follow on from what Alon said. I totally agree that, yes, primarily it was a passion project and one we discussed many times before we actually launched it. I reached out to Alon when I left Fratello and told him that I had a few irons in the fire, as it were, and I wasn't sure which route to pursue. And it was then that he really pitched it to me and said, oh, let's start our own thing. So we brainstormed for a couple of days over a name. We got there, then we laid out the ground rules. We didn't want to take money, as he says, we didn't want to sell the content or our voices. But of course, we did have, like, an idea of how we could sustain it, how we could make it into something that we would be able to, you know, pump a lot of our own money into to grow it and to reach the most excluded corners of the industry. And so we came up with this idea of co designing what we envisaged as special editions rather than limited editions because we didn't want to build into the whole FOMO thing. It quickly became. Became apparent to us when we were speaking to brands who were keen to do this kind of thing with us, that we might have to bend on the limited aspect at some point because it didn't fit with their product plan to have these collaborative pieces ever present in the collection. So although we haven't done it yet, we do anticipate that at some point in the future, with some of the brands we're talking to, we might have to do limited pieces. We're totally fine limiting them to a number in a year, as it were, so that if somebody wants one, they can eventually get one. But there may be hard limitations that come along because the project for us is just too attractive to ignore, because we desperately want to work with a brand that we really believe in. And in some ways, although, you know, while Alan said it's not a conflict of interest, we don't see it as such because we really only pursue the brands that we are close to, brands that we have a good relationship with, brands that we would advocate entirely anyway. Now, that could be interpreted as just spin. You know, politicians speak, and if you're cynical and you see it like that, that's totally fine. There's, you know, there's nothing I can say to that, but in all honesty, in absolute honest, we would never want to put our, our initials, the TRTS initials, to something that we didn't believe in, something that we weren't comfortable with. And I think, yeah, okay. Alon talks about ASI talk about the brands that I work with quite a bit on the show because it's firsthand experience. I don't mean to do it to promote the brands. I have had some feedback from listeners saying, oh, you talk about this a bit too much. You talk about that a bit too much. And that's totally fair because I guess any mention of any brand is in itself promotion of a sort. But really it's because, you know, we are active in the industry. We're still in touch with brands, we have working relationships with a lot of them. We're not paid to promote them, but we only work with the brands that we love. So the Real Time show created a space for us to do more of that, to shine a light on some of the up and coming people in the industry. I mean, it sounds stupid now to call him up and coming because he's probably one of the best known names in watchmaking, but we were one of the first podcasts to have Sylvan Berner on the show, and we had him on the show before A Watch was even on the market. And that was a great thing for us. Alan's known Sylvain longer than I have, but we hit it off immediately and become fast friends. And it's great to see his success. And it is something I believe in, something that I would endlessly champion and promote as long as he keeps doing things that I believe in. But since he does, it's. It's totally legit, I think, for us to talk about that. And we hope that by opening the door to people who are willing to collaborate with us, not just brands, but individuals such as David, for example, who reached out to us as a listener with some ideas. I'm hoping we can grow the watchmaking family, you know, so it. It's got space for it to be a broad church, but it isn't as broad a church as it could be. There are still very exclusive practices that we want to kind of break down. And I think the fact that we're open about what we're doing, how we're doing it, and how passionate we are for the watches is a good enough reason as any for us to keep on going.
- [22:04]
Alon
Also in Amsterdam is our. I dare to call him, our resident watchmaker and almost watch philosopher, Max. Welcome.
- [22:13]
Max
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Also here in Amsterdam, finally.
- [22:19]
Alon
And thank you because you took actually a lot of work on you for organizing our meetup in Amsterdam. So thank you for that. Please do introduce yourself.
- [22:29]
Max
Well, my name is Max. I'm a master watchmaker currently based in Austria. I work mostly with as a service watchmaker for Rolex, but also some other brands. What comes over my bench, honestly? Yeah. Here on vacation and. Yeah, I don't know. Is there anything more to introduce about myself?
- [22:53]
Alon
We will get to that. How did you find trts?
- [22:57]
Max
Well, I was looking for. I was getting into the podcast as an idea to listen to it while I work on movement. Because a normal movement for me is like one hour to assemble or one hour to disassemble. So that was kind of perfect because your episodes are around one hour. So I could always listen to one of your podcasts and I would know my work is done when the podcast is finished. So that was also kind of way to pace myself. So I got into podcasts and one of the first podcasts I got because Spotify directly introduced myself to you at the Real Time show. And from there I got through your back catalog and then after like three or four episodes I joined the community. Your WhatsApp community, basically. Yeah. And I'm really enjoying the episodes. Really enjoying the community so far. So, yeah, quite happy I found you.
- [23:55]
Alon
Awesome. What do you like the most about the pod?
- [24:01]
Max
It's the. Some parts you feel like the opinions are in a way not manufactured but like fight down to fit the niche of the pot or like the. The financial interests oftentimes because some of the episodes are sponsored, etc. So you can't really go in deep on the industry like, like you sometimes should to. So that I know that things aren't as rosy as they say in their marketing. So I like that you just sometimes get into it like with. Not directly with brands, but you, you show that your opinions are also the opinions of the enthusiast, not just the opinions of the marketing. Marketing chief for some brands, which I like because there are some podcasts I just turned off after a while because I was like, ah, it's not really what the, what the host is saying or wants to say, but rather what he thinks he should say so he can have success. And I don't. I'm not on board for that.
- [25:06]
Alon
So when you said about the financial, you mean that we are independent and therefore objective, Is that what you mean?
- [25:12]
Max
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's exactly what I mean. That's because journalism should be independent. If it's around watches or politics, that's the same thing. Basically. It should be independent. It should be without any financial incentive for the journalist or host or writer of the story or anything. So that's why I enjoy your podcast.
- [25:35]
Alon
It's.
- [25:36]
Max
There's no real. You don't have skin in the game, as I like to say. So that's really good.
- [25:42]
Alon
About your podcast, how do you enjoy the TRTS community?
- [25:49]
Max
I love the sense of community and of course as a watchmaker, I know the watchmakers community which also quite close knit and quite international, so to speak. So I have friends from Hong Kong, I have friends from Singapore, I have some in Switzerland and of course Austria and such. And your community is the same but for enthusiasts as well. And sometimes watchmakers are also enthusiasts, but most, but there are some kinds of watchmakers or some people in the watchmaking space who aren't enthusiasts. They are just there as a job and so they enjoy the job but they aren't nerdy. So you can't really get into it with them. Sometimes they look at you like could you stop talking about watches? And you're like, but I want to talk about it. So it's really nice to have this outlet because also in my personal space I don't have anyone who understands if I rave about some brand or something, they look at me and like. Or when I say oh, 12,000 for this watch is cheap, then I look at me like what the fuck are you talking about?
- [26:55]
Alon
The 12,000 Bistukrank.
- [26:57]
Max
Yeah, yeah. Actually come down to the floor with us please. Again, you are too high up. And then. But enthusiasts, they understand it. And of course with, with the international crowd you have, you have the, the Swedish mafia, of course in the network the Scandinavian countries are quite strong. We have Amsterdam, we have the Netherlands. Quite good. South of Germany is pretty, also pretty good like from a crowd perspective in the network. So I have many different kinds of cultures and opinions which mix and sometimes they match, sometimes they don't, which I also enjoy because that challenges me as well. So and we, we did have some spirited conversations and discussions in the past months to almost a year now. And also we also talk not just about watches which I also enjoy that sometimes just talk about stuff that isn't watch related but also quite weird because we all enjoy quite weird things. I think we watch enjoyers. So that's like, I hope not a lot, not too long winded of a way to describe what I like about the community, but that's how I am.
- [28:11]
Alon
No, no, it's lovely. Would you say these discussions are respectfully and or intellectual?
- [28:20]
Max
Both. So of course sometimes the subject matter isn't really intellectual but more silly. But we keep it respectful in the network because everybody still recognizes that they are talking to an adult and somebody who isn't. How do you say? It's still a stranger somewhat. So you can't really do get into it with them like with a friend, you know, personally. So there's still this border which probably saved us some rather nasty arguments I would guess.
- [29:01]
Alon
Yeah, you referred to the Swedish Mafia. For our listeners that don't know what we're talking about. We have a awesome group in the Nordics of Europe, so the north western parts and we obviously overrepresent in Stockholm around in Sweden. So we nicked named them the Swedish Mafia. This is a shout out to you guys if you're listening. But more importantly this is also a accusation. You guys had did tough talking. You would come down to Amsterdam for the meetup. So where are you guys? You guys are shining by absence.
- [29:37]
Max
Yes, well said, well said. I can only add to that.
- [29:40]
Alon
So we miss you guys. Next meetup Stockholm 5th. What kind of watches do you collect Max? And why?
- [29:49]
Max
Well, that's kind of a hard question to answer. Of course like most collectors the answer to that is I collect what I like. With me that tends to go the military route but kind of with a vintage touch. So I have the Baussel which is reiteration of the type 1 from Benhus, which is a purely military watch. I have a Hanhardt which I made to look like it's a vintage military piece. But I also have a harp ring. So I quite enjoy brands who are not that. Not the big brands. Like the only big brand I have is like my Tudor which was my first nice watch. Typical Blue 58 Black Bay 58 and my Rolex Daytona which are both I bought because I worked in a jeweler with Rolex and Tudor. So that's the reason I got those. And I need a personal connection to the watch, be it. I know somebody in a factory be it. I enjoy the watch as from a design standpoint so I need those connections and then I collect. I don't collect because somebody else says to me you need to buy this.
- [31:05]
Alon
Thank you so much. Now all of you are allowed to ask Rob and I a question. Do you have a question or multiple questions for us?
- [31:15]
Max
Yeah, actually it's one thing I wanted to ask is how How. How does it work with you and. And Rob? I guess I, as an adult with a job, also know how. How difficult it is to align schedules, but you have to align schedules with. With also with guests who are oftentimes the founders or heads of big companies or big divisions in companies. So I wanted to ask, how do you handle. Do you have like a spreadsheet where everybody writes the like? This time is blocked for me because I have this and that or something. Or how do you manage that?
- [31:50]
Alon
Excellent question, Max. Thank you so much. Rob and I are very agile, very flexible, and very chaotic. Means we operate in organized chaos. Sounds dramatic, but it isn't. It's actually awesome. So the planning, we go according to the plan of our guests, so we actually don't really block time. We really are very flexible, both of us. Most of our guests want to record during office hours if we're in the same time zone. We have obviously guests in Asia, guests in the US So either we record very early, very late, late at night, we accommodate for our guests and I don't know if you meant it in a way, how we organize in spreadsheets and everything. The questioning were very agile as well. And we ping pong literally during the recording and we see who goes first. Because you know that Rob is my podcast mentor. He taught me to shut up, which is very difficult for me. So when you and I sit next to each other, I really have to bite my tongue not to respond and to be quiet on the recordings. During the recordings, we also go by the flow. So if we see that a conversation goes a direction, we let it go that way. Hope that answers the question.
- [33:18]
Max
Thank you, Max.
- [33:19]
Rob
Yeah, I mean, Alan said pretty much everything there is to say about it. I would push back a little bit on the organized chaos. I don't think we're quite that chaotic. I think flexible, agile are the words that I would use. Basically, we're both self employed, so that means that our calendars are our own, we can do with them as we will. It's a little bit easier for me because I don't have the home life to take care of that Alon does. And the difficulties I have, the differences there are that I'm traveling a lot more than Alon, so I'm frequently in different time zones. I work in the US a few times a year, so sometimes I'm really, really far out of whack with people in Europe. But conversely, that can also be a good thing when we want to record with people who are also on the west coast, for example. So if we want to do a show with Collective, which we very much do want to do and we haven't done yet, but will very shortly, then it would make sense if I were in la, I could even do the show in person with them. So there are advantages if you look for them in that calendar that we're trying to build endlessly. We've had trouble, I think, pacing our recordings more than anything. We tend to go in fits and starts because that's how the season works. You know, there are two main seasons, two traveling seasons, as far as I see it. You've got the run into watches and wonders, and then you've got a break over summer where most of Switzerland takes a month off in August. And then we've got Geneva watch days, which kicks off the run into Christmas. And there's a lot of things happening between September and December. Now it mostly wraps up by the end of November, but you've got Geneva watch days, there's wind up in New York, then there's Dubai Watch week. We've got things like Time Zones, Watch Pro Salon, SCW and Micro Praha in Prague. You get the picture. There's a lot to be done in those regions. So sometimes we try to record on site to make the most of being out of the, well, virtual studio, out of our offices and unable to record. But for the most part, we contact the brands that we want to work with, we ask them when they're available, and then we just block the time and we stick to it. And if one of us has to drop out, as you've noticed, sometimes Alon flies solo, sometimes I do that as well. Sometimes Scarlett does also. And David, of course, is more than capable of doing that. We're hoping to get him on the mic with some French brands, actually, that he's got a soft spot for, so that would be a really nice thing to hear as well. But sometimes we just do that. We just. If Alon has to bow out or if I'm on the road and I've got connection issues and I step out and he'll go ahead and record anyway. And I think every member of the team is able to do it on their own if they need to. Although nothing beats doing it all together with an excellent guest.
- [35:52]
Alon
A lot of Watch nerds and people on the outside think that the watch world is just a manly world, a world with men. But no, at trts, we don't discriminate. We don't discriminate tastes, styles, vibes or people. And yeah, we have ladies still not enough. But actually we pride ourselves with a lot of ladies in the community. I'm proud to welcome Henriette. How are you?
- [36:18]
Henriette
Hello. Nice to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
- [36:21]
Alon
And she's not only a watch nerd and a watch collector, she's a supergirl and she's a watchmaker as well. Please introduce yourself, Henriette.
- [36:30]
Henriette
Hello, my name is Henrietta. I'm 27 years old, I'm living in south Germany and as Alan just mentioned, I'm a master watchmaker in Germany and I'm working in jewelry and repair most of the time. Rolex, but also Omega prattling, Jaeger Lecoultre and stuff like that.
- [36:50]
Alon
Begs the question, is it Jaeger Lecoultre or Jaeger Lecoultre?
- [36:55]
Henriette
So I think in Germany you say Jaeger Lecoultre, but if you think about that the founders are Frenchmen. You can also say Jer. I'm not quite sure what the official.
- [37:07]
Alon
Yeah, funny because in Holland we also say Jaeger Lecoult so everybody pronounces it differently.
- [37:13]
Henriette
I say Jaeger.
- [37:14]
Alon
You have a beautiful reversal on your wrist.
- [37:16]
Henriette
Thank you.
- [37:17]
Alon
Is it a closed case?
- [37:19]
Henriette
Yes.
- [37:20]
Alon
Did you engrave it?
- [37:21]
Henriette
Oh, I'm thinking about it and last week I was talking with Max about it because he had an idea when we saw something on Instagram but I'm not quite sure. I have to ask how it would work and if I have it to send it to Switzerland or I don't know, I have to figure it out. But I would like to, but I'm not quite sure which. What?
- [37:44]
Alon
How would you dare to do it yourself?
- [37:47]
Henriette
No, no, no. That must be perfect. And I'm not.
- [37:52]
Alon
It's a mercier, isn't it?
- [37:53]
Henriette
Yes.
- [37:54]
Alon
Yeah. Interesting. How did you find trts?
- [37:58]
Henriette
Max taught me about it. That's really simple. We were talking about podcasts and would it be nice to have a good watch podcast. And then we tried some one. At one time he was sending me a link for one episode. I don't know which one. And so he was first joining the network and then I thought, yeah, maybe it could be fun.
- [38:25]
Alon
What do you like the most about the pod?
- [38:27]
Henriette
I really enjoy the. When you are talking to guys from the industry who are talking about how they are getting into the watchmaking and the interviews with these kind of people I think I like the most. But I also really enjoyed shows about watches and wonders. And when you are talked about the option, I moved the name only watch. Yeah. Yeah. This one I like. Really?
- [38:57]
Alon
Did you like the game aspect or because. Because apparently I got famous for some.
- [39:02]
Ben
Quotes that I did.
- [39:07]
Alon
And did you like the GPHG episodes equally or was the auction more fun?
- [39:14]
Henriette
I think the auction was more fun, but that's just my personal opinion, so.
- [39:20]
Rob
Very good.
- [39:22]
Alon
It's funny you just said the guys. Do you think there are not enough women in general in watchmaking?
- [39:29]
Henriette
Yes.
- [39:31]
Alon
Are there not enough ladies as well in watch reporting? I mean journalism?
- [39:39]
Henriette
I don't know. I don't know as much people there, but I think the female perspective is always an important one. And I'm really, really getting angry when I think about when a brand is making a lady's watch and then put there a cheap quartz movement and five diamonds. No. Fuck you.
- [40:02]
Alon
Well said. That's why, you know, she likes my. My explicit content. All day she's been relaxed, but now we see the real Henriette. This is what she does when she scratches a screw, when she screws it back into the watch. I'm just kidding. I want to just touch upon that topic a little bit. How are we doing within the TRTS environment on this aspect?
- [40:29]
Henriette
I think it's great. I really like to see that there are other women in the topic. So I have one other female friend who is a master watchmaker. But then mostly there are guys. And I really enjoyed when I joined the network to see that there are the Swedish girls and that there is somebody out who's thinking like me and also being female. So I think it's really helpful.
- [40:59]
Alon
Yeah. So we're really pushing. We have awesome members in the community. Bianca is in Amsterdam as well.
- [41:05]
Henriette
Yes. It was so lovely to meet her yesterday.
- [41:07]
Alon
Yeah, great. So we have that. We have Swedish, we have Scarlet who soon is going to create content for the Real Time network working on that. We obviously have Lydian Vu, so we have 5050 there guest wise. Trust me, from day one we said we want more ladies. It's actually very difficult to get them on because the leaving CEO of Jaeger LeCoultre turned us down. But on the Richemont side we are difficult to get in. Although Lange and Son is planned with Herr Schmidt, so it's difficult. We have Amandine lined up. I actually have my old friend who was creative director Beaumarchais. She's coming on soon but we're working on it. So please give us the feedback because we always want to improve following questions. How do you enjoy the TRTS community?
- [42:06]
Henriette
Oh, I think it's really good fun. It's always there. So every time I'm looking At my phone somebody is writing all the time, 24 hours a day. But I really like it. So when I'm bored, I'm just there reading the messages, looking at the watches. I'm not as loud as some other people in the network, but I really enjoy to read it. So it's good fun. I like the quality of the content when there is a serious debate. But there's also so much bullshit going on. The tractors. Why are there always tractors?
- [42:43]
Alon
For our listeners that are not familiar with the community, we have a WhatsApp community. There's a general announcement channel and then there are sub channels. The general channel is where serious stuff goes on. At a certain point we were joking around, we created the banter sub channel. And then when the banter really got craz and somebody said, hey, let's talk about cars. And there was tractor. And actually we have Niels in the community who actually owns tractors and drives them every day. So tractor became jokingly a kind of our mascot. Together with the dive, the diver. So the plunger, the little plunger. More to come. So stay tuned. So that's what Henriette is referring at. But you don't need to join all channels. You can archive them, you can jump in, you can weave out. So that's what she's referring at. Now to do a bit of more joking around. I think your buddy Max is rather loud in the community, don't you think?
- [43:42]
Henriette
Yes, yes, but it's his kind of community, so it's his topic. And when he is enthusiastic about something, then he knows everything about it and then he's just living up and it's great to see.
- [43:59]
Alon
No, it's lovely. He's a fantastic guy. In Dutch we do call him a betweter. Do you say in German a Besswisser?
- [44:08]
Henriette
But he's not a Besserwisser. No, no, no. That's not his kind of style. He just have a huge knowledge about a topic.
- [44:15]
Alon
Yeah, and I agree with you because when somebody stands corrected, he does accept it. So he's not a know it all. That's the word we're using. So it was just a bit of banter going on here. It's the end of the day, we're going to have awesome beers. It's a sunny, warm day. What kind of watches do you collect, Henriette? And why?
- [44:36]
Henriette
I'm a little bit more on the vintage kind of style. I like the cleaner watches in the style of the 50s or 60s roundabout. But yes, I have the problem that I always like the same kind of stuff. So I have a vintage Omega and I have a vintage Psycho and to be honest, they're looking so similar, but I love them.
- [45:04]
Alon
So to push your boundaries, what's next for you on your wish list?
- [45:09]
Henriette
A tank.
- [45:11]
Alon
Again, rectangular.
- [45:13]
Henriette
I'm not quite sure which tank. I think that's maybe a little bit rude, but I think a Cartier tank. As to everybody has it now, it's a little bit.
- [45:27]
Alon
So would you go for another brand.
- [45:29]
Henriette
Rectangular as I had in mind from Piaget? The old hand movements, hand winding movements with the onyx style I really like. And also I discovered the Vacheron over in your window.
- [45:44]
Alon
She's pointing outwards towards the shop level there. So for those that she's looking at me and pointing, so I'm describing what she's doing. So we'll make you a nice trts price. So that's your thing. Would you wear quartz once?
- [45:59]
Henriette
It depends on. So I really like the Rolex quartz, the oyster quartz, but it need to be a special quartz.
- [46:10]
Alon
Yeah. So you're not a watch snob?
- [46:12]
Henriette
I'm a little bit of snob.
- [46:16]
Alon
That's a good way to end questions. One bonus thing for you. You're allowed to ask Rob and I one or more questions. Do you have one for us?
- [46:26]
Henriette
Yes. What are your wishes for the community when you look at the female male difference? Do you know what I mean? Do you have any plans how you can equal it a little bit more? Is there something that you see an opportunity for you in your role?
- [46:43]
Alon
Excellent question, Henrietta. Thank you. Actually, very important to both Rob and I from day one we are kind of. Disappointed is a big word, but let me use it for argument's sake that we don't have more female voices on the pod. I am proud how many we have in the community and the loud voices, in a positive sense, guests. I'm actually surprised we're inviting colleague journalists. Very difficult to get these ladies on CEOs. Not that many difficult to get them on. We made it a point to work harder to get them on. But I have some awesome guests already lined up. So thank you, Henriette, for A the question and B, for coming on the show.
- [47:39]
Rob
Now this is a really good question because it's a really important thing to us both. When we started the Real Time show, we desperately wanted to create a space where anybody felt welcome. Male, female, otherwise, however one defines themselves. It should be a place where we can all share our love of watchmaking. Now I've been in the media for a decade, very active over that Time. And I've worked with over 10 global titles, let's say. And I have been stymied at points in my career in my attempts to create a more welcoming space. And I've pitched ideas in the past that I thought were great at the time. But there's one thing that I suffer from, and Alan suffers from it as well, is that we're middle aged men and we don't really know the answers to the questions we know need addressing. We may come at it with good intentions, which I believe we both do, but I think it's, it's clear, ever more clear to me, that I can't, even with a rational mind and observed experience, be the one to dictate how this works, how it goes. Since this podcast was recorded with the gang in Amsterdam, Scarlet Baker has joined the team. And when Scarlett came on board, I initially had pitched to her this idea I'd had when I was back at Fratello for a podcast called Women in Watchmaking, where one woman in watchmaking would come on and interview someone that they admired, and then the hot seat would pass to the woman who had been interviewed, who would then interview someone else that they admired. Because I thought, naive as I was, that having a space that was entirely female occupied and with content that was female led, it would give voice to those who often are denied one in watchmaking. And I said this to Scarlett and she said to me, no, Rob, you know, we don't want to be a novelty. We don't want to be a circus act. We want to just be there. We want our talents and our efforts to be what people know about us. And we just want it to be normalized that there are women in this industry at all levels. And honestly, I was gobsmacked by it because I was like, oh, well, that seems simple enough. Why isn't that already the case? And the reason why it's not the case is because watchmaking is often a closed shop. And it's true, as sad as it is, that women coming into the industry have to work a lot harder than men the same age, and they also are given a lot less rope. You know, I always say one of the great privileges I feel I've had is I've been able to make mistakes in my career. I've fallen as many times as I've succeeded. And it's. It's a privilege. It really is the one, the one thing that I really notice. You know, obviously the key thing is people take you more seriously. I think you walk into a room and people assume that you've got a right to be there is difficult also for guys. I'm not saying it's just a piece of cake. And if you work hard enough, you'll get everything because it's very competitive and there's more men in the industry. So you know, you've less of a chance of rising above all that noise in that sense. But really you are on a good foot in the sense that you've got credibility. When you walk into a room, you don't get faced ever with some of the horrible things I've seen in my career where it's just assumed that women are there for someone else. And so we wanted to encourage the engagement of female listeners and also the activity of female contributors. Have as many women on the show as we could to interview. Although as you've noticed, there aren't a huge number or in our 250plus episodes already because there aren't actually a huge number of women at the top level yet in watchmaking. Although that is changing with some very notable appointments in the last few years order by PG and JLC to point to a couple. And I feel like it is going in the right direction again. The longer I'm in the industry and the longer I want to something positive to happen in this fear, the less I feel that it's my right, certainly not my duty to comment on it and maybe not even to analyze it. Maybe not to be the one that says, oh, I think it's getting better because, you know, I can look at it from numbers and stats and whatnot. But I think a lot of it will come down to the feeling, to the sense like how accepted are people who don't look like me or alon in the industry now. And takes a huge amount of time, it may even take generations. But it seems like the effort is being made because the conversation's being had. So I hope that in some way we've been a positive contribution to that conversation and we will strive to do more and to listen and to adjust accordingly as we go forward.
- [52:27]
Alon
Another community member. Finally, a Dutchie. Welcome, Dennis.
- [52:32]
Dennis
Thank you very much. Nice to be here.
- [52:35]
Alon
Great to have you here. Fellow Red Bar crew Amsterdam member.
- [52:38]
Dennis
Absolutely.
- [52:41]
Alon
I dare to call you a friend. So thank you for coming and to our TRTS meetup and to Amsterdam because you're actually I always joke around almost Belgian.
- [52:52]
Dennis
Yeah, indeed. I do live near the Belgian border. Actually I live in between the Belgium and the German border in the south of the Netherlands, Limburg. So it's quite A long ride from there to Amsterdam.
- [53:07]
Alon
Yeah. So thank you for coming out. Please do introduce a bit more about yourself. You already said where you're from, but give us a little intro for our dear listeners.
- [53:17]
Dennis
Right, so yeah, I'm Dennis Denis Jonce. I 43 years old, just from this weekend. I'm into watches since. Since I was a kid. I love the Omega Pipem constellation my uncle was wearing and ever since I saw that every Wednesday afternoon, I'm addicted to watches. So, yeah.
- [53:46]
Alon
How did you find trts?
- [53:49]
Dennis
It was actually true. Rev Bar. When I started looking at the Rev Bar, I looked more into, hey, what else is out there? Got to the Ace list and then, yeah, obviously it's a small step from there to a real time show.
- [54:08]
Alon
So basically you're blaming me.
- [54:10]
Dennis
Yeah, absolutely.
- [54:13]
Alon
What do you like the most about rpod? Sorry? What do you like most about our podcast?
- [54:20]
Dennis
I think it's the. No nonsense.
- [54:26]
Alon
Well, the.
- [54:27]
Dennis
It's straightforwardness. It's the honesty that's really enjoyable. You're not selling something, you're not trying to push a product. You're just talking about a passion, a shared passion, which is great and which is quite different than some of the other. Well, not so much podcasts, but the YouTube channels that we all watch and love. But yeah, it's nice to have a refreshing touch to it.
- [55:04]
Alon
How do you enjoy the TRTS community?
- [55:07]
Dennis
Well, I only recently joined like a few days ago, but from what I'm seeing, the warm welcome in the group, the enthusiasm and the passion about watches and everything, it's. It's like a warm bath. So, yeah, it's definitely. I should have done this earlier. I should. I mean, I've been missing out.
- [55:35]
Alon
What kind of watches do you collect and why?
- [55:38]
Dennis
Well, so I used to mainly collect divers watches. I'm a big fan of wars. So I have a large collection of Voris watches, but I stopped seeing them as part of my collection because otherwise I need to make choices with them. So it's a side collection, but then mostly I collect dive watches, tool watches. But I found myself recently looking more and more into dress watches. Even though I don't dress up, you'll find me in jeans and polo shirts most of the time. And I'll wear datejust or a tank with it just as well as I would wear a black Bay 58.
- [56:27]
Alon
On the topic of Oris, I know you're very much a fan of Oris and you're affiliated with, I believe they call it the osc.
- [56:37]
Dennis
Yes.
- [56:37]
Alon
Auris Social Club. Yes, correct. Right, yeah. Tell us a bit more about that, please.
- [56:43]
Dennis
So the Auris Social Club is basically an initiative in. In all the cities where there's a Horus boutique, and it's a bit like the Rev Bar, but focused on Aorus, of course. And you'll find the watch nuts there as well. Mostly geared towards Horus, of course. But what I do like a lot about OSC is that it's focused on one brand, but it's just a love for the brand that everybody has. But it's also the openness and the family feeling that Oris gives to us as a community that at this point, I have an experience from other brands. Definitely not in that way. So it's a big kudos to Orus for creating that sense of belonging, almost.
- [57:46]
Alon
That's because I know they create club watches. As far as I've seen, they have their own Instagram handles. Yeah. Beach cleanups.
- [57:55]
Dennis
Yes.
- [57:56]
Alon
Is it 100% run by the brand or is it really run out of the community?
- [58:01]
Dennis
The club, I think that's. I'm not certain, but there's. I have seen initiatives from. From the clubs, from the brand, but also from the community itself. And recently I have been having talks with the boutique here in Amsterdam to look into an activity such as a beach cleanup or a canal cleanup, because, as you know, the canals are not always at their best.
- [58:39]
Alon
Do you have a question for Rob and I?
- [58:43]
Dennis
Yes. So that's a difficult one. There's a bunch of questions I would definitely like to ask, but on top of top of mind, if you would be able to pick a brand, a watch brand from the past and revive it, not looking at the cost and all those aspects. Which brand would you want to revive?
- [59:09]
Alon
Oh, wow, Dennis put me on the spot there. I actually have to call in the fifth because my brother and I are actually considering doing that, so I can't spill the beans. But I'm very curious what Rob is going to say.
- [59:29]
Rob
What a pathetic way to sidestep the question. Leave it all on my shoulders. Ooh, tough one. Good question, Dennis. Which brand would I revive? Well, I would have said Universal Geneve. Absolutely. Had Breitling not jumped in the way and snatched it from underneath my nose. So I'll have to think a little bit further outside the box. Hmm. Okay. I kind of enjoyed thinking about this one because I'm not someone that has ever coveted the idea of bringing a brand back from the dead. Quite the opposite. I'd like to start my own brand. I really do hope one day that I'll be able to start more than one brand. But I don't look to the past for inspiration in the way that many reborn brands have done in recent years. And that's no shade on them. I love things like Nevada or Vertex. I think they're wonderful. I can't get enough of the watches they produce, but for me, I want to do my own thing. And so I'm going to answer this question. I'm going to answer. I'm going to give you three answers, actually. One's a bit of a joke, one's an absolute bonkers curveball and one I think will appeal to a lot of watch fans. And I think the people that know this brand will know that I'm saying it because I respect the watchmaking and it's not so much that I think, oh, the brand would be a great success or that I really miss, like their marketing. Not at all. I miss them getting the respect I think their efforts deserved. So we'll start there with Le Mania. Le Mania was a great producer of chronograph movements. They did do other movements as well, but most notable for the chronographs. I love lemania Chrono. I love ones that are derived from it. I think that they're great looking pieces and they work well and I think that's a name that deserves a place in the modern industry. So that's my number one. Which one shall I go for next? My absolute curveball. Not really a watch brand and it's a brand that still exists, but they don't make watches anymore and they only did, as far as I know, once. And that's Bottega Veneta, the leather goods manufacturer from Italy. They had these watches, two pieces, identical. They were. One was black, one was brown, I think. And there was a diver as well that didn't really get much pop and they had like black coated titanium cases. They looked a bit icopodish, to be honest. And they had these beautiful leather straps which were really the, the main selling point of these watches. They, they looked a bit like python or salmon, but I'm not sure what they were. They, they, I think they were just maybe woven calf or something like that. They were cool as at the time I really wanted one. They were not cheap. They were about €5,000. You can pick them up every so often on Chrono 24 or from other sites. Like Vestiaire had one, I noticed the other day, for like 6200. So they held their value really well because they're like a high fashion item that just exists as an anomaly. Just a weird luxury watch made by a luxury brand that doesn't make watches. So that's that one and here's. Here's a funny one. This is my joke and maybe it could happen for only watch. You never know. I'd like to see Patek and Czapek come back. I would like to see Patek Phillipe once more reunite with Czapek and create a watch under that original partnership heading which existed for a few years before Patek found Philippe and the rest was written into history. So those are my three answers. Le Mania, Bottega, Veneta and Patek and Capek.
- [63:12]
Alon
So this was it first trial run, a chopped up episode with input from the community. I hope you enjoyed it. I've enjoyed recording it, hanging out with all of these watch nerds in Amsterdam. Thank you dear listener, for sitting down listening. If you feel you want to be part of this community, please do join us. You can send either David, Rob or I a message. You can obviously send us an email by visiting our website www.therealtime.show. you can hit us up on Instagram herealtime.show. if you want to support the show, please subscribe, like rate and share it with your friends. If you have any other questions, feedback and or criticism, please do send us a message. Stay sane and keep on ticking.
- [64:17]
Henriette
Sa.