Loading summary
Transcript175 lines
- [00:00]
Lucy
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Rob Nudds
Hello, watch fans and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nudds. Our friendly neighbourhood jeweller, Alain, Ben, Joseph and Lucy from Paulin and Lewis from Anordain.
- [00:16]
Lewis
Hello.
- [00:16]
Rob Nudds
There's a whole family pot here sitting in the glass igloo outside Villa Sarasan for the Time to Watchers event 2025. And we've got a double header because these two brands are not just close, they are familial, shall we say. Lewis, could you explain to us the connection between Annordain and Pauline?
- [00:32]
Lewis
Yes, Rob, the connection is that. The connection is that Paulin became part of Annordain a year or two ago and we've taken it in house as our kind of our sister brand, would you say? Sister brand. Good one. Yeah. So it's assembled by the same watchmakers. When they've got a little downtime from Anna Dane, they will do assembly for Paulin, designed by the same people and, yeah, kind of customer care is shared as well.
- [01:07]
Rob Nudds
And you're both based in Glasgow in the same building? Yeah, Very nice. Lucy, what's your relationship with Paul and how did you find your way to the brand?
- [01:16]
Lucy
I actually thought I was heading up there to. To check out the. The studio and the. The watchmaking studio, how the enameling is done, and then ended up having a chat with Lewis about marketing and I'm quite heavy into the. The content creation and the community.
- [01:42]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [01:42]
Lucy
And he's like, do you want to. Do you want to help out with that with Paulin? And obviously jumped at the chance. I'm a big fan of Paulin anyway, slightly now bias. But yeah, no, I love the brand and happy to promote it.
- [01:54]
Rob Nudds
So just to clarify, the reason why you're into the content and the community building aspect of it is because you're famous on Instagram and so you're on Tube as well. And YouTube, of course. Yeah, the YouTube is. Is really great. So go on, give us your handle so people can follow you.
- [02:07]
Lucy
So you can find me on Instagram and YouTube. Thewatchboxdiaries. It's great being a female watch enthusiast and reviewer, seeing things from a different perspective. Yeah, I really enjoy it, love doing it.
- [02:22]
Alain
No Correlation with the 1916 Company formerly known as the Watchbox.
- [02:27]
Lucy
Nothing to do with them. No, the name actually comes from a very cringy TV show, so I'm not going to do that.
- [02:36]
Lewis
Oh, what's that one? The.
- [02:39]
Lucy
Vampire Diaries.
- [02:40]
Lewis
Oh, that's it, yeah.
- [02:40]
Rob Nudds
Oh, Jesus. Is that where it comes from?
- [02:42]
Lucy
Lockdown. Yeah, lockdown. Did A number on me apparently. I just watched far too much Vampire Diaries, started an Instagram channel and my influence was teeny great.
- [02:55]
Alain
Yeah, which you still do next to your job.
- [02:58]
Lucy
I do. I'm very lucky that I see things from both sides. I get to be, you know, representing Portland and a brand that I really, really love. But then I also still get to do the watch shows and the reviews and check out other brands as well.
- [03:13]
Alain
I'm so happy that I can rebound the question you and I always get. Can you really be objective and independent and share your thoughts? So here goes.
- [03:22]
Lucy
Lucy, I don't review purely watches.
- [03:24]
Lewis
Yeah, we. The beginning we agreed that she's not to review porn watch and if she does, they have to be bad reviews. Otherwise it's a little biased. So you can only slag is off or not talk about it.
- [03:37]
Alain
But Lucy, that trade off not reviewing Paulin and annordain means 50% less clickbait. What do you do?
- [03:46]
Lucy
I still post them to my stories so they still see them.
- [03:49]
Alain
Did you do a review about the Land Dweller?
- [03:53]
Lucy
I have not yet.
- [03:55]
Rob Nudds
What are your thoughts?
- [03:58]
Lucy
Honest answers. I'm going to go for it. Love how thin it is. Love the bracelet. Appreciate that they've tried to do something new, all of the elements. I do feel like they kind of Frankensteined it a little bit. There's a lot of elements from multiple different watches that they've released and they've kind of just pushed them all into one watch. Personally, it's not for me. I'm sure, you know, the watch world will eat it up though.
- [04:28]
Alain
How important is the caliber and the innovation they put in there for you?
- [04:33]
Lucy
Less important. I mean, Rolex, you tend to get, you know, you tend to trust their movements. Workhorse. They go on forever.
- [04:45]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [04:45]
Lucy
I have heard some things about their new movement, but I'm not massively into it. Unless it's something unusual or it's a workhorse or it's beautifully enameled or it's, you know, something different. Yeah, as long as it works and it has a decent power reserve and it's, you know, a decent accuracy.
- [05:08]
Rob Nudds
I guess that that speaks to exactly what Annordain and Poland are more focused on. It's the aesthetics and the artisanal side of things. The handcrafts and so although the movements are Swiss made and more than, more than credible, like they keep good time. That's not really what people come to these brands for. So one thing about the Land Dweller is the controversial dial texture. But if we want dial textures, we can Go to Anodyne. Can we not? Yeah, well, one would imagine that I might be a broadcaster. No, Come on, Lewis, tell us about the very, very well known, but maybe not known to all listeners. Textures and enamels of Annordain's dials.
- [05:49]
Lewis
Yeah, well, enameling is our kind of the core of what we do. We've got. We've got a team now of about nine enamellers in the company and. And they make enamel dials for our watches. So that's. That's ranging from opaques to. To the transparent. We did the. The first fume enamel dial in 2019.
- [06:12]
Rob Nudds
The first what? The first one for enamel. Yeah. Okay, first one.
- [06:16]
Lewis
Enamel the roof.
- [06:19]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [06:20]
Lewis
And we've just got the prototype sitting in front of you with the. With a. With a watch with two different anaminic styles on it, which is commercial, I think they're very happy with. Which is shop levee. Like what though we did for the strothers and they're 248 and then in. It's also got some bastai in the middle of it. So it's a.
- [06:43]
Rob Nudds
Okay, so medley of. It's a beautiful medley. It all comes together very nicely for people who don't know enamels or French. I guess Champlav translates roughly to walled enamel. Right. So it's walls.
- [06:55]
Lewis
I think if they know French they still wouldn't know what I've just.
- [06:58]
Rob Nudds
No, that's not true because it's cloisonne. The other one that said champlave is when you engrave.
- [07:04]
Lewis
Yes, that's right, yeah.
- [07:05]
Rob Nudds
You. Not when you build the wall cut.
- [07:07]
Lewis
Wells and fill it with enamel. Whereas cosnates is putting in little wires and filling in between.
- [07:13]
Rob Nudds
They're the walls. That's the ones. That's where it comes from. Okay, so what one you said Bastai.
- [07:18]
Lewis
Bastai which is. Is. Is creating patterns underneath enamel.
- [07:24]
Rob Nudds
Okay.
- [07:24]
Lewis
I think I'm right in saying that I get shot by the animal is going back. They won't listen to this. Be fine.
- [07:31]
Rob Nudds
Okay. So it's a combination of two different anomaly styles. Which is.
- [07:34]
Lewis
What you've got in the middle is. Is hand engraving a pattern which lets the light play off it and then enamelling over the top of that. The. That's a transparent enameling. So you've got solid opaque enameling with metal coming through on the outside and transparent enamel with a pattern underneath on the inside.
- [07:53]
Rob Nudds
So this is as far as enameling goes, which the very old time honoured craft. Innovative to put two different types of enamel on one dial. I've Never seen it before.
- [08:02]
Lewis
No, I don't think I have either.
- [08:05]
Rob Nudds
I'll tell you what, we'll hear about it in two or three years time when someone else does it for the first time ever. Watchmaking. Yeah. No, no fingers pointed there.
- [08:13]
Alain
So I've been dying to ask from the day I've heard about Ann Ardain, what's your obsession with enamel? Why did you start an enamel watch brand?
- [08:23]
Lewis
It wasn't an enamel watch to start with, but so I think originally it was trying to do everything. So I went to Baselworld. Did you go back in the day? You know. Yeah, of course.
- [08:34]
Rob Nudds
He went in a pram.
- [08:36]
Alain
Look how old I look, how old I look. I'm older than that.
- [08:39]
Lewis
Right. So if you, if you go there and you visit the manufacturers, remember there used to be halls with all the supplies in and you realize pretty quickly that they're selling watches that they've assembled, but the parts come from a handful of. So you'll have a handful of dial factor handle for case factories. And what ends up happening when you go around a few, you realize the watches all look quite similar and we're a lot better these days for that. But back like 15 years ago, you're kind of palette of different options was fairly small. So you ended up. And so I came back with the idea of let's try and make something, you know, get, get a CNC maker to do a case and a belt maker to make a strap. And so if you could turn similar trades. And it was a very naive idea. And it doesn't, you know, the tolerances are so far away. When you're actually looking at, you know, getting a coin maker to do dials, that didn't work. But what did come out of it was visiting the mint in Birmingham and it had a commemorative coin with enamel on it. And it just really stood out to me. So that's where the interest came. And it's. I think because it's very difficult and you're constantly faced with challenges that it becomes very. It keeps you interested and so you always turn to the next thing, which is why we're.
- [09:59]
Rob Nudds
It's addictive.
- [10:00]
Lewis
Yeah, it's the challenge. I think if you've done something you do kind of you, you'd made it work, then it gets boring. But there's always another technique to, to try and work out or a new dimensions to fit within or, or something else to, you know, something else to do. So.
- [10:16]
Alain
So I've obviously listened to the TRTS episodes where you've been a Guest already on the show. I recommend those that haven't listened to. Go back and listen to it now. I've been obsessed with enamel ever since I'm a kid. I'm a jeweler, grew up with gemstones, diamonds, goldsmiths. My dad is a master diamond polisher, cutter, goldsmith. So I've always been in ateliers. For me, I always explain in dummy language, enamel is painting with glass. You can't do it in one go. No, that's how I'd make it. Dummy proof. Now, for me, I dare to say it's gem like. I've been raised with Faberge, so I've worked with Faberge. Victor Meyer, maybe you know it, maybe you don't know them. What I don't know, because we've been breaking our teeth here about French terms. How British is enameling?
- [11:14]
Lewis
That's a good question. Not. I've had a problem, actually. So if. The way I think about it is that paint is a recent. You know, the quality of paint is fairly recent, that you've got to the level where you can put paint on a watch done and it doesn't flake off after a while. So before, before there was decent paint, people made dials either out of metal or out of enamel. And if you wanted a white dial or a colored dial, you'd use enamel. So it was back in the day, it was very common. So it used to be we were. I don't know if we're doing it here before Switzerland, but I presume we would have been doing it in Britain, given that watchmaking's a bit older in the uk. So it did used to be very common. There's certainly things that they could do back then that we don't know how to do now because the, you know, the skills have gone.
- [12:01]
Rob Nudds
What kind of things?
- [12:03]
Lewis
Well, the thing that comes to mind, it's. It's biscuit tins. And I know that's an odd one for. For watchmen, but if you think about. Do you know that sort of commemorative. Or the biscuit tins you get with the pictures on them, those used to be made enamel. And so the challenge, one of the challenges with enamel is you're putting very thin layer of metal with essentially glass on it in an oven that's 800 degrees centigrade, taking it out. So it's heating up and cooling down. You've got glass and metal, really different properties. And the expansion, the contraction does all things that warps it, cracks it, all these things. So if you're making biscuit tin and you've got this box which needs to stay in a, you know, square format with a lid that goes on to actually do that with all this decoration and put it in and out of an oven and it not warp and crack like there's no one alive today that could do that.
- [12:57]
Rob Nudds
So just to explain to the listeners, because this is something that you've said, something there that may not make sense to them because you didn't explain how you actually get around that problem, that those two properties of glass and metal when they're under those extreme temperatures, how do you stop them from warping to the point that they crack? What do you do?
- [13:15]
Lewis
One interesting thing about craft in general, I think in heritage crafts, is that there's not one simple trick to it. It is a series of workarounds that you pick up over many years and sometimes many generations that will give you the skill and the ability to be able to work with materials like that. So I'm working with the potters in Stockton Trent, and I went to visit them one firm. And the printing they can do there is beyond anything I've seen anywhere in the world. And it's from 300 years of just refining the processes. And that's really what it comes down to, is the kind of skills.
- [13:58]
Rob Nudds
Very good, Lucy. Moving on to Paulin, because you actually have a display here at Time to watches, so we should focus on your watches. Can you give us an insight to the brand? What's it all about, Paulin?
- [14:13]
Lucy
It is. I like to think of it as the collaboration between the art design type world and a solid foundation of watchmaking like that combination in a playful, that, you know, obtainable, I guess, solid watch price range is, I think, is ideal for that sort of fun side as well. But also, you know that you're getting a solid watch with it, very staple piece.
- [14:49]
Rob Nudds
So there are some quartz options in Poland and some automatic as well.
- [14:53]
Lucy
And manual wind.
- [14:54]
Rob Nudds
And manual wind. And the price range starts around £450.
- [14:59]
Lucy
For the quartz options, up to 990 for the manual wines. So depending on your price range, your preferred mechanism, your preferred sizing, there are quite a lot of options to choose from. Bright colors, more neutral dial options, but still with that sort of poin twist. So I like to think there's kind of a pooling for everybody.
- [15:23]
Rob Nudds
That's interesting. So over the last few years, Anna Dain has got a lot of exposure on the legacy media blogs, as it were, and TikTok, Instagram and so on. But maybe Paulin has had a little Bit less. But maybe it needs a little bit more than anodyne because the watches are not very standard in terms of shape or dimensions. And so it's something that people may want to get on their wrist to see how it fits. So where can they do that? Do they have to follow you around the globe at all these events you're attending these days or what?
- [15:50]
Lucy
I think so, yes. No, we're in the process of moving workshops at the moment. So once we're up and running, when you're in Glasgow, you can pop by and see us in the studio as well. We are getting out to a lot more actual events, so we're trying to sort of globetrot a little bit and we're also looking at expanding into specific retailers or stockists. So again, like, getting hands on with a watch is obviously a fantastic idea, but we do offer free shipping and free returns. So.
- [16:22]
Rob Nudds
Okay. Very customer friendly.
- [16:24]
Lewis
Yeah, we're in the MoMA shop in New York as well and the Armory in Hong Kong and New York. So there's those if you're, if you're there.
- [16:32]
Rob Nudds
Okay, okay, okay. A couple of options there. That's very good. So when you come to an event like this, which is not necessarily as customer facing as a lot of the events you've been doing recently and is a bit more of a trade fair, as it were, what are you looking for? Are you looking for. Yeah, still the B2C, like collectors to stop by. Or is it retailers or journalists that your primary focus at something like time to watches?
- [16:55]
Lucy
I think all of it helps.
- [16:56]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [16:57]
Lucy
You know, we're a growing business. The more exposure you get, the better. So yes, speaking to retailers is great, potentially get us out there journalists, they're the bread and butter of getting your brand out there as well. So you want to be speaking to them as well. And you know, we've had people in here that are genuine enthusiasts that live in Geneva that have never heard of the brand.
- [17:21]
Rob Nudds
Right.
- [17:21]
Lucy
And they've been very excited to learn about, you know, a Scottish, Scottish watch brand because there's very few and far between. So it's been fantastic to get such a good mix of different industries together and hear their feedback and then also maybe learn something from them as well about, you know, if it's a retailer in, you know, Switzerland or if they're based in Finland or something, their markets might be slightly different to, to us. So you can learn something from them as well.
- [17:54]
Rob Nudds
So when it comes to that retail expansion, have you got in mind a number of retailers you'd like. And have you got geographic target areas lined up? Like you must see where the traffic comes from. Basically where you might be best placed to have a physical presence.
- [18:09]
Lucy
I think London would probably be a good place to start.
- [18:13]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [18:13]
Lewis
Where the customers are already. I think the US is our main market.
- [18:17]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, of course we hear that a lot.
- [18:19]
Lewis
You know it is I think for every of the kind of younger brands. That's because they've got. Americans got very good attitude towards trying things out.
- [18:27]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [18:27]
Lewis
I think whereas Europeans tend to be more cautious.
- [18:31]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [18:31]
Lewis
You know the traditional brands. So.
- [18:35]
Rob Nudds
And there seems to be like a willingness to take a chance and also like to. In America it seems very much like you want to have something someone else doesn't have and you want to have something someone else doesn't know about. Even so being first to something matters more then. And I think the more established a brand becomes the less mystique that it has to that target demographic. And you were in Dallas recently, right?
- [18:56]
Lucy
Yes. Yeah.
- [18:56]
Rob Nudds
How was that event?
- [18:58]
Lucy
It was really good actually. It was their first wind up show in Dallas celebrating their 10 year anniversary. Didn't really know what to expect personally my first wind up but it was great. It was really good atmosphere, really well received. Like feedback from. From all the watches, quite a few purchases made.
- [19:17]
Lewis
So yeah, I had a feeling of like the older wind ups back in the, you know, a few years ago in New York it was, it was quite personal. It's very nice.
- [19:24]
Rob Nudds
Nice.
- [19:25]
Lewis
Yeah.
- [19:26]
Alain
I've said this multiple times on the board. I'm a watch nerd. I like everything that ticks, clicks, slides and glides. Wall clocks are neglected by the watch industry.
- [19:40]
Lewis
They are 100.
- [19:42]
Alain
I love the Poland watches. When I saw the. Actually I heard it on our own pod. You had wall clocks.
- [19:47]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, I've got one.
- [19:49]
Alain
Every family member, friends that has a housewarming gets a polling clock from. The cork ones are his favorite.
- [19:57]
Rob Nudds
Yes.
- [19:58]
Alain
Question one is why did you ever start making wall clocks and how are they doing for you guys and are you going to expand the collection From.
- [20:06]
Lucy
A sales perspective our wall clocks are, you know, major sellers.
- [20:10]
Lewis
People are fond of them. It's nice. I come across a lot of journalists who have them, which I've never spoken to and they'll have one at home which is just lovely. But yeah, it's nice. Things aren't there? We did all of it is Cork because it comes from Portugal. There's no, you know, there's no plastic. Everything's fairly locally produced and stuff. So they're nice Objects, I think to have. And we have got a new one coming out which is quite fun. It's luminescent.
- [20:35]
Lucy
What?
- [20:36]
Lewis
Am I allowed to say that?
- [20:37]
Lucy
Probably not. No, you've said it now.
- [20:39]
Lewis
It's coming out.
- [20:40]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, nice one.
- [20:41]
Lewis
It's gonna be really good. So that means glow in the dark, Rob.
- [20:44]
Rob Nudds
Oh, thanks, mate.
- [20:45]
Alain
It's gonna be like the stars I.
- [20:47]
Rob Nudds
Can'T do you mean on the guardrails on my bed? I literally had all those things on my bed when I was 39, which I still am. Okay, one very quick question to you both because we have to wrap up the show and end the day. Off to Sotheby's.
- [21:04]
Alain
Nice.
- [21:05]
Rob Nudds
Scarlet to see Scarlet, our co host to you both. What's coming. What can we look forward to? One thing from each of you. Lewis first and Lucy will end on you.
- [21:16]
Lewis
New things. We've, we've got, we've got new watches, new movement design. We've actually got, I think, one of the interesting things, everyone knows us for enamel, but we've, we've, we've got a lot of, A lot of resources into movements over the past few years and that's going to start coming through in the next year or so. So that'll be very interesting.
- [21:37]
Rob Nudds
That is something to keep your eye on because that is going to change the whole proposition of an Aldan entirely. You know, the movements are about for the first time, really.
- [21:45]
Lewis
Like you say, get interesting.
- [21:46]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, get very interesting.
- [21:47]
Lucy
Lucy, don't forget the pool of the porcelain watches.
- [21:50]
Lewis
Oh, yeah, yeah. One thing.
- [21:53]
Rob Nudds
It was only like one thing. The porcelain watches are already out there, though.
- [21:56]
Lewis
Yeah.
- [21:56]
Rob Nudds
So.
- [21:56]
Lewis
And they are. Yeah. They're right, aren't they? They're good.
- [21:59]
Rob Nudds
Yeah. They're flying. Yeah, they're beautiful handset. Exquisite hands. Absolutely gorgeously made. And a lovely option if you're on that waiting list. Pick up one of those, you know, get yourself.
- [22:09]
Lewis
Get yourself out available to the general public in a couple of weeks, hopefully. We, we're working our way through the waiting list to see who's, who's wanting them. So we're not, you know, not getting caught out with another waiting list.
- [22:22]
Rob Nudds
Jolly goods.
- [22:22]
Lewis
Yeah.
- [22:24]
Lucy
Lucy, not sure how much I'm allowed to say.
- [22:27]
Rob Nudds
However, it's audio only. It doesn't count. There's no such thing as an embargo broken on audio. We're just chatting.
- [22:32]
Lucy
There's some really exciting things coming out for Paulin, specifically a brand new model.
- [22:37]
Rob Nudds
Okay. Luminous clock. Nice. Means glow in the dark.
- [22:42]
Lucy
One for your wrist, one for your wrist. But I mean, it will have lume on it.
- [22:46]
Lewis
Oh, nice.
- [22:47]
Lucy
And the water resistance has increased to what? I'm leaving it. I'm leaving it that.
- [22:53]
Rob Nudds
Oh, I know what it is.
- [22:55]
Lucy
Okay.
- [22:55]
Rob Nudds
Right. All right. Okay. I won't break the umbaga myself. I was hoping you'd do it for me.
- [22:59]
Lucy
But some awesome collaborations coming up this year as well.
- [23:01]
Rob Nudds
Brilliant stuff. We'll keep our eyes peeled on those and on both brands. Both of you, thank you very much for joining me. We wish you the best for the rest of time to watch us.
- [23:08]
Lewis
Thank you both very much.
- [23:09]
Rob Nudds
Thank you. Lucy and Lewis, two of our favorite people in the watchmaking industry, buddying up today, of course, because Annordain and Polin are sister brands or sibling brands. I don't know why the brands always female. It's interesting, isn't it? It's like ships. Ships are always female. Better that than men, probably. Less chance of them fighting with each other. So Paul, in an ordain, sharing the booth at the same time. We've heard from Annordain before, years ago, really, on the Real Time show soon after we started. And it's a brand that I know intimately, having worked with them quite closely recently in Poland is another one that you're quite well acquainted with, of course. What do you think of them both? There's quite a lot to say, I suppose. So let's start wherever you feel comfortable starting.
- [23:54]
Alain
I started laughing when you said we know them well because actually this was the first time for me to meet both Lucy and Lewis in person. And this session we had with them was hands down top three favorite recordings during Time to Watches for me because they're both a force to be reckoned with. Officially, it was a Pauline interview and not so much Ann Ardaine. They're obviously intertwined, but Lucy is more responsible for Pauline, although she helps out at Annordain as well. I knew of them both, heard a lot about them, followed them on social media. Both well, we can confirm their reputation precedes them. They're amazing. Fantastic sense of humor. So there was just banter on the mic, off the mic, before and afterwards, and as you could have just heard on the mic, dry sense of humor. Let's focus on Lucy. She is a true watch nerd. She's a collector. I don't like to use the word influencer, but she's definitely a watch Persona. She creates a lot of cool content. She comes from a different angle, which is refreshing. And she's energetic, she's elegant, she is contemporary. So she knows what's in the now of things. And I don't, I can't think of a better match between the brand and a person embodying it. And on that topic, Rob, have you seen also the watches they are launching in London at the Hands on Horology event with the artist John Nicholl? Eight unique hand painted dials.
- [25:48]
Rob Nudds
I mean, it's a match made in heaven really, isn't it? Polin is a great canvas for artists, especially typographers and those willing to experiment with color to have a field day with. And like you said, Lucy is a perfect embodiment of that. She is fun, fresh, very open with her feelings and perspectives on watchmaking. She has her own Instagram channel at TheWatchbox Diaries. That's t H E W A T C H B O X D I A R I E S so go and follow her and follow her adventures in watchmaking with Paulin as well as other brands. And yeah, I mean, it's lovely to see them growing. It's lovely to see Paul and really making a push, as they have done in the last 12, 18 months, to kind of not separate themselves from Annel Dame, but just ensure that the distinct character is there. And this is kind of a second phase of Poland's development because originally the watches were much more staid and basic, a bit more like Daniel Wellington's really kind of fashion watches. And now they're really developing into their own thing, a playground, an experimental playground for the designers out on Ordain that often like crossover to Poland as well. So we're seeing great stuff, great use of color, great use of shapes, unusual cases, not complicated to the eye initially, but more complicated in construction than one would think upon first glance. So there's a lot of value there, I think, and a brand that we should expect to see pop up around the world a lot more in the next couple of years. Now here's a question for you because yesterday we spoke about marathon and I was saying, oh, a marathon is a watch for me that the segment of the Marathons collection which defines them most cleanly is in the lower end entry level adventure watch category. Now, Pauline watches retail across the map, basically between about 500 and €1,000, depending on whether it's, well, which line it is or whether it's quartz or manual or automatic or quartz or mechanical. Where do you see these watches having a great deal of success with which kind of demographics and at the expense of which other brands.
- [27:55]
Alain
I was looking for the press release in my real time show mailbox while we're chatting, but I couldn't find it. So I went to my private email and I found the email there because I buy their wall clothes, as I've said many times on air and often I gift them to friends, family and whomever has a new home. So I looked at that email. They only make nine watches, handpain dials. So they're PS uniques for only 750 sterling pound including Vit. So I wanted to buy one. But then what they do is, which they do well is you can only pick them up during that fair and they're not snooty. In case they're not sold out, you can pick one up online. So obviously I'm going to log into the polling website to see if there's one available. Now I'm using this as a segue to answer your question. Watch nerds like us that are used maybe to manufacture and or hotel luxury will pick them up as a fun fashion item or as we used to collect swatches when we were younger maybe or G shocks. But I don't think we are the core customer base. I think they appeal a bit to the nomos type of consumer. And who are those? Either people that like design and or are into great value for money, so quality and those that maybe want niche brands that you have those type of consumers that never want the mainstream brands. I always use the example of perfumes and sunglasses. There are a big group of buyers that will never buy a perfume or sunglass from a fashion house. Right. I think that applies to watchmaking as well. And in the watch industry it's a bit weird because you have those fashion houses that make watches low end Armani, guess etc. Going up the pecking order, going all the way up to Chanel and Hermes where I think that mood is shifting and the opinions towards en Hermes and a Chanel because they've become actual manufacturers. But I think there's a big customer, especially the younger ones. I'll call them the Millennials or Gen Zs that skip that gateway drug into watchmaking being a Longines Omega, Rolex or whatever and they immediately go to the niche brands. Do you agree with me, bro?
- [30:40]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, I think you might be onto something there. I do think that they have like quite broad appeal and I think the advantage that they have in this regard, broadening their appeal is that they offer the same watches in automatic and in quartz. So for example, I personally always love the Neo B line. I love the case shape. I thought that was really nice. I love the Crown Proportions versus the case. Took me a while to warm up to the Model D line, but the sort of Alan Silberstein esque dial, the one with the black dial with the yellow markers and the blue hour hand and the red seconds hand is the sharper style that they do. And it's the one that I really want the most. Do I want to spend £900 on a model D automatic? Because, well, that's getting into the touching distance of a manual wine Nomos club campus, which I still kind of have valued a little higher in my mind. Do I feel comfortable spending £450 on the same watch but with a quartz movement? With the option of an open case back to show the quartz movement off? Yes. That to me is a great, great value proposition. That's a cool watch. Top design a case that's worthy of a watch twice that value with a movement that does the job and the little quirk of being able to show off that technology that is so often hidden away, shamefully hidden behind a case back when it should be celebrated because it's a wonderful thing. Quartz is incredibly cool. Is it as artisanal as mechanical watches? No, not necessarily. It isn't necessarily. Not either. Because Grand Seiko makes some beautiful quartz movements that finish the damn site better than a lot of basic mechanical calibers that you find in most sub 1000 Euro fare. But for me that's a great watch. That's a great thing to have. I think that the mechanical side of Pauling stretches the value of the brand in the mind of the consumer so that they're more likely to slide in and buy one of those models at the quartz level. That's what I think. Let's move on to Annordain briefly as well because even though this was primarily appalling meeting, we had Lewis there, who is the head honcho of Anordain, a brand that is effectively sold out of watches till 2029 but still selling build slots which you're able to lock into if you're interested in securing an Anodain before the next decade rolls over. What do you think of the brand? Alon? Do you own an Anodain? Would you own an Anodain? Would you buy one tomorrow if you could?
- [32:59]
Alain
No. Yes. Yes. So I don't own one. I very badly want one. I will do so if I can now. And why contact? Because they're waiting lists. I almost pulled the trigger twice. I won't mention names. One Red Bar crew member had one. I almost pulled the trigger, but it was one of the first generations. I didn't find the color of the enamel dial that spectacular. And it's the first generation cases which I'm not in love with so much. Then I had an opportunity buy a Hodinkee collab. They did. With these hollowed out numbers. Slate gray, enamel dial. Stunning. Very steep price.
- [33:45]
Rob Nudds
They have hollowed out numbers.
- [33:47]
Alain
Well, they're articoish.
- [33:49]
Rob Nudds
Oh, I see what you mean.
- [33:50]
Alain
You know what I mean?
- [33:51]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, yeah, yeah. More. Yeah. Sort of outlined. Yeah, yeah, I get what you mean. I thought you meant like literally hollowed out and like filled. Okay. No, no. Okay, carry on.
- [33:59]
Alain
It's a. It's a nice type phone. It has character.
- [34:03]
Rob Nudds
Oh yeah. Well, all that typography is incredible.
- [34:06]
Alain
Yeah, they are. But still I think that luckily for me, I can't make one, customize one, pick one, order one because of the waiting list, the long waiting list. I think they're doing me a favor. I think I'll hold off now until they go slimmer.
- [34:27]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [34:28]
Alain
So. And I don't know if they'll go slimmer. I have a hunch they'll go slimmer for two reasons. They need to go up market because they used to be too low in price. They're simply too cheap in the beginning. So, so lucky you guys that picked one up at those price points then they are very elegant. And elegance was always tied to slimness. For a while we let that go. We went up to 46 millimeters and I don't know 40, 50 millimeters thickness in cases. But we see a clear trend going back. My knowledge has a gap. I don't know if they use, for example G100 calibers rope. You might know that better than I do. But that could be a quick fix to slimming down things. I even see in the future an ordain going to a semi exclusively design produced caliber for them and going slimmer.
- [35:29]
Rob Nudds
Well, okay, couple of things to touch on. They do use the G101, which is the dateless G100 already. It's not a particularly slim movement, by the way. It's not like it's not as slim as a soap rod, for example, it's about a millimeter thicker. So a Soprod M100 is 3.6 mil and I think a G101 is 4.45. But by the by, one of the reasons why they can't go super slim is because enamel dials are by their nature quite thick. Because it's not just the enamel on one side. You have to have like enamel on the other side as well, to stop the material from contracting in one direction too far. So you have this like another layer of enamel called contra enamel on the back to stop it from deforming. They are by nature thick. What would help is to make diameter bigger. And then it would at least be perceived as thinner, like relatively thinner. And they're doing that. I always thought when I saw the models online, I would want the small, let's say model one, for example, because they've got them in three sizes and I love the Japanese oxblood one. So the small one is like 35 millimeters wide and the medium one is 39 millimeters wide and the large one is 41. The medium is 38 millimeters wide and the large one Is 41 millimeters wide. There was no way in my mind, no way in hell that I would end up with large. I thought maybe the small or the medium. Tried the small. It was too boxy on my wrist. It stood up like it looks great on a woman's wrist. They can pull it off if you've got a slim enough wrist. But I was like, okay, I'll go to the medium. And still I was not convinced by its, its proportions. But the large one, which is 41 millimeters wide and only 11 mil and only 11 millimeters thick, now that was the sweet spot because you see when you go to the medium, still 11 millimeters thick, and when you go down to the small, then they are 10.1 millimeters thick. So you see as you grow the, the statics, the static thickness of the watches becomes more and more crucial to their visual impact, as it were. So the large one for me is actually the way to go. And you must have missed the most recent newsletter because Anodain has recently announced a custom decorated movement of their own designed by one of their in house designers. And it is absolutely gorgeous. It's kind of a swirling pattern that the rotor is finished and cut out to continue this kind of. What's the word? What are those sweets that you get at carnivals? The big lollipops have like the sort of red and white swirls in them. You know the ones I mean?
- [38:12]
Alain
I know exactly what hard candy you mean by.
- [38:14]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, yeah. Either it looks like hard candy, it looks like a Campino.
- [38:18]
Lewis
So.
- [38:19]
Alain
Dude, I did not know this. Yeah, this is not. This is not the one too. I was drowning after the move for the Ace Boutique. I'm lagging on press releases, emails and everything. I did not notice. I'm going to try to dig it out of my mailbox. That's awesome because we didn't speak so much about anar name in Geneva and. And it is a brand that you cannot buy online. You need to see them in real life. And especially enamel.
- [38:47]
Rob Nudds
You also can't buy them online. So, yeah, you have.
- [38:50]
Alain
Well, you can buy pre owned ones, but I wouldn't.
- [38:52]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, true, true, you can buy pre.
- [38:54]
Alain
Owned online, but you obviously refer to the vii, the visual impact index, the thing that will one day win Rob a Nobel Prize and Pulitzer Prize in one. So, Rob, I challenge you to make a VII report for an ordain. Do us watch nerds a favor, dude. Huh?
- [39:19]
Rob Nudds
Okay. That's an interesting one. I think it will come out actually with a larger visual than it suggests by its measurements. That's what I would guess for the large one. And I think the opposite would be true of the other two, but we shall see. I'll maybe run that through and we'll discuss that on an upcoming Q and A session at some point because you've cued me, so I'll a you. All right. Any. Any further comments on an ordain? Or shall we wait until we get Lewis back on the show? Or maybe, maybe we can get Ewan, the guy that designs the cases and works in the back office, like doing all the wonderful stuff behind the scenes on air, because he's a real character and it'd be great to talk to him as well.
- [39:54]
Alain
I need to get to Glasgow. I've never been. And visiting both Poland and Annorden is a very good excuse.
- [40:02]
Rob Nudds
All right, well, let's go over there and create some content for both the brands together. And all of you can look forward to seeing that on either our official website, www.therealtime.show, perhaps even our Instagram@therealtime.show. or maybe, maybe, just maybe, our recently launched YouTube channel, which we haven't pushed at all. We only launched it because a couple of our listeners only listen to things on YouTube and they requested it. But if you want to go along there and give it a like and give it a follow and share, that would be very much appreciated. We'll see you next time. Sa.