Alon Be Joseph (7:36)

I totally agree. I've been on record many times. I've been interviewed, I've written articles that I still miss Baselworld. And my heart fills with joy every year we progress from that few dormant years of no fairs that we're going there again. And why Baselworld was the watch world coming, the luxury world? It wasn't just watch, it was also jewelry and the makers. And it was international. You just said it. It's the international Watch week. It's not a European party that we're coming together we not only celebrate it, we work hard when we play hard. It's a rhetorical question, of course, and I love it. I always say, I see my old friends make new friends and nothing beats FaceTime. And I don't mean Apple FaceTime, but literally, people seem to. And you said it beautifully, to hug each other. It's a rhetorical question. I have for you. Covid passed. We act as if it never happened. True sihh. You see, I made a mistake before. It didn't slip. Watches and wonders. The old SIHH is buzzing. It's bigger, it's growing every year.

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (8:55)

It's very luxury. It's the best. It's like creme de la creme.

Alon Be Joseph (9:00)

It is. Why does Geneva watches have still have a right to exist?

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (9:09)

That's. I like this question because I have an anecdote to share with you. I joined Bulgari in 21. So one year after the beginning of Geneva watch days and one of the first meetings, zoom meeting, I confess that I had officially as global communication director for Bulgari Watches, was about the Geneva watch days. And it was with those CEOs that created the first edition. And the question was an open question. Shall we do it again? Is it relevant? Do we need that? Do we want to do that? And the answer from all of them was not only matter of business efficiency, Roi. It was a gut answer. It was yes. It was so cool. Let's do it again and we'll see the year after. So this very special passion that we all have for watches, for the job we do, but for this again, for this community, for this ecosystem, drove us to keep going on the Geneva watch days. And now when I have meetings with the city of Geneva and with the canton of Geneva, they openly say that this is the second most important event in the year. So it's not only important for watches, but it is also important for the beating heart city of Geneva, which is amazing. And it's important that this city, like you have La Geneve International, you have La Jeune Logre, and we are part of that. And we are all over the city. You know, you have the showrooms all over the city. This year we will have 60 brands. So you can imagine that it will be.

Alon Be Joseph (11:28)

Vibrant.

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (11:29)

Yeah, yeah, that's a nice word. With the epicenter as the pavilion with the exhibition. One of the most important watch exhibition is we have more than 100 timepieces under the same roof. The glass box with all the cultural aspect and all the think tank aspect. For me, Geneva watch days is something between The Forum de Davos and the Festival d' Avignon is true in terms of geography, but it's also true in terms of spirit. It is to reinforce the business. It's something super important. If there is no business, then it becomes a doming art. And the creativity, the cultural aspect, the educational aspect that we want to have, that this is one of our mission. It's a mission to answer to the eagerness of the curious, the fans, the collectors, to open the doors of the beautiful brands that join us. But it's also a very important mission towards the students, the people that would like to work for the watchmaking industry, to become a watchmaker, to become an enameler, to become a micropainter, to become a regular. So it's a variety of jobs, of art histories, that we also want to open to new passions and new lives.

Alon Be Joseph (13:23)

You got me excited. I have fond memories of these five years. Besides that, it's warm, it's nice. We have a club that goes swimming every morning at 7am so if you come out, join us, everybody's welcome. You get rid of your hangover, you wake up and you're ready to go. For those that now have been. I said that I salute Catherine because she does a ungrateful and very difficult job. Because this is not a congress hall, dear listeners. She doesn't book a hall, but stands in and it's outsourced, almost. No, this is a collective that needs to work like a symbiosis, it's almost a beehive. So I don't even know how she organized it, because all the retailers that listen host a lot of events themselves. So today retailers are our event organizers as well. And we know it's a metier, it's a job, it's a profession.

Rob (14:24)

So.

Alon Be Joseph (14:28)

It'S a hell of a job. It's well coordinated, there is relaxedness, which.

Rob (14:33)

Right.

Alon Be Joseph (14:35)

You do. Because I am a consumer there. I'm a visitor of the fair. I come there as a retailer, I come there as journalist, I come as a watch nerd. And that's something that I also love. You guys were the first fair to embrace the collectors. It's almost as if they are the number one priority.

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (14:54)

This is absolutely what we do.

Alon Be Joseph (14:57)

Yeah, watches. The one who's learned this only two, three years ago, they can only come the weekend. But it's organized around the collectors. There's indeed this openness, this platform to educate and share the passion. And I can ramble on, I can go on for hours, the next guest is waiting. But what I Wanted to ask you, for the professionals listening, if they want to join as a brand, what do they need to do?

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (15:30)

Okay, so first, and for those who haven't run through the information, please take note the dates for the 25 editions. So the 2025 editions are from September 4th until September 7th month. Very important that you put that on your calendar and that you book your trip. Second thing, yes. The whole event is thought first and foremost for the collectors, the watch fans, the customers, the buyers and not as a B2B event. That's the essence of. And that's. Yes, that's really the essence of the Geneva watch days. And that's what make the difference, obviously, because then it drives the traffic of the press of the retailers because it's so organic and so different and so fun. And if you are a brand, or if you want to launch your brand, because we have been assisting to some very nice birth during those five editions, you can send me an email or you can write to the email of the podcast of the real show and Alan will kindly forward that to me and we'll discuss together. Very easy. So we are organized as an association, so there is a contribution fee, membership fee, and then we let you organize your showroom as you wish. You can go to your retailer to do your showroom. You can take a hotel room, you can rent a space in Geneva as you wish, depending on what you want to achieve, what you want to do. It's very cost efficient because this is you who decide how much budget you want to put in it. But any budget you want to put to it will be worth it because you are deciding what to do with the Geneva watch days. You contribute to the ecosystem and we help you to have a beautiful platform with relevant activities all along the day to balance with the visits to the showrooms and to the brands.

Alon Be Joseph (18:07)

And I can speak for retailers, press and consumers, because I'm all three. It's free. I believe the website, if I remember correctly by heart, but correct me if I'm wrong, is GVA watch deis.com Yes, I remember my memory still working. It's free. Register. Come. It's fun. It's very accessible. So, dear press, there was some noises last year that they didn't get an invitation.

D (18:39)

It's so accessible, you don't need an invitation.

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (18:43)

You're all welcome.

Alon Be Joseph (18:44)

We said that in stereo. So please do your homework, Just go to the website. Registration is for free. Consumers, don't be daunted, don't be scared. Talk to your retailer, talk to your Favorite media outlet podcast TLKS Community is coming.

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (19:01)

Ah, cool.

Alon Be Joseph (19:02)

Yeah.

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (19:02)

Take a train, take a plane, take your car, come by foot or by bike. The pavilion is open to all. As you said, there is no entry fee. And you will find an amazing exhibition of the brands participating to the association. You will find a culture hub where you will learn everything about the history of the watchmaking, about the training you can get, about archives about brands with some amazing international partners. You will be able to attend to a bunch of activities in the glass box. And we are brainstorming to elaborate even more the activities for this edition. I cannot tell you more now, but you will have bright surprises and again you will have the opportunity, even as a visitor, to go to see more than 60 showrooms open to you and waiting for you while listening to you.

Alon Be Joseph (20:16)

At a brain wave. I believe in experience, marketing. So those that are coming swimming every morning at 7:00, we should ask all the partisan brands with dive watches to put a little table. Put a watch?

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (20:30)

Yeah, a test.

Alon Be Joseph (20:31)

You can test it, take, go swim with it. And then we'll do a little raffle at the end of the week. Who swam the fastest lap can win one of the watches. What do you think of my idea?

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (20:39)

Catherine? That's super cool. I love that.

Alon Be Joseph (20:42)

So if you want a dive watch, spam Geneva watch days and tell them it was a good idea, you heard it first on the Real Time show. Katherine.

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (20:49)

Sure, let's do that.

Alon Be Joseph (20:50)

Thank you so much.

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (20:51)

I like the idea. Thank you, Alan.

Alon Be Joseph (20:53)

Thank you.

Catherine Eberlet Devoe (20:54)

Bye bye all.

D (20:55)

You missed this interview with our dear friend and this so elegant and fun, Katherine, obviously she has a double role, as you heard, because besides organizing, well, all of Geneva watch days for five years already, she's also head of PR for Bulgari watches. And you, Rob and I, we visited the new booth at Watches and Wonders in the PAL Expo. What was your takeaway of what they've done this year at Bulgari?

Rob (21:26)

Oh my God, don't even get me started. Honestly, I might be about to blow up the mic. I adore everything that Bulgari has done this year. You know, I'm a huge fan of the Serpenti. There was one model in particular that I took more photos of than any other watch during the entire week over all of the fares. And that was this new, I believe it's white gold, diamond studded with rubies Serpenti. It is heavenly. It is pristine work. The stone setting is exquisite. Everything about that watch speaks to me. Now I'm not as huge a fan of the new bangle Serpentis, the sort of fixed models that don't wrap around the wrist as much. You just go down around the one time. They're a bit edgier, a bit more abstract, not quite as obviously a snake. I think that they're a great addition to the collection. And I like the fact that they're playing around with the snake concept and taking it in new directions and not resting on their laurels. And that is great to see. And what about that cough, that jewelry studded cough that honestly, I can just see on the wrist of Cleopatra? It looks like treasure. This is what I love about Bulgari. Everything about their high jewelry and high concept watchmaking is pushing the envelope. And if I've said this before, but if aliens come to earth after we've destroyed civilization and they dig up any watch, I would choose it to be the serpenti because they'd be like, what on earth lived here? At one point these people were crazy. They made this stuff and they wore it on their wrists. I mean, it's like the jewelry of gods. What do you think?

D (22:55)

Well, we're on the same wavelength. I don't have enough balls to rock it like you do. But I love the Serpentes and it's amazing how much creativity they have and how much they can push the envelope on variations and evolution of that iconic watch. I wanted to ask you now, on the technical side of things, what did you think of the idea of creating a tractor caliber for ladies? So they launched more than a year ago, the Piccolino, so the smallest mechanical caliber hand wound. Now they made a LVMH tractor on a very small diameter, so lines. I even believe it's a successor to the famous or infamous 2000 ETA 2000 caliber. Could you elaborate on that, Rob, as a watchmaker?

Rob (23:58)

Well, from a watchmaking perspective, obviously there's a lot of problems with small movements. They get exponentially harder to control the finer and smaller the gearing gets. And you really, you're really pushed as a watchmaker when you're assembling these pieces in some ways to just get them to work. Because machines of this size don't work in the way that they should work. You can have all the technical files perfect, you can build them in CAD and you can run your testing programs. You can see that everything's engaging correctly and theoretically it should function without incident or issue. But in reality, when you're working with such fine components, one of the issues that you run into as a watchmaker is not necessarily, how can I Put this. Tolerances, machining tolerances. Although they're extremely tight now in comparison to what they were in the past, they still exist. And they become exponentially more present when components reduce in size. So your tolerances, although you can tighten your tolerances as much as you want theoretically, but in reality, you're always going to find that there are slight variations between parts. And so what you run into as a watchmaker is this the situation where two components that engage with one another both pass qc because they're both within the tolerances of the CNC machine or gear cutter that you're using to make them. But if they happen to be on the extreme ends of the tolerances in opposite directions. So one is, like, on the smallest end, one is on the largest end. Those minuscule differences, and we're talking microns, are actually relatively much bigger than they would be in a caliber like an ETA 6498, you know, classic or unit test. 6498, 6197. Pocket watch movement you find in. In many watches around the world, like Schofield uses a variation of it on its new Obscura, for example. So it still gets use. And it's extremely easy to assemble because it's more like assembling a car engine or an old car engine when you just drop in the cogs. And your tolerances are basically like an open barn door in comparison to what we're talking about here. You find that maybe those incremental differences in extremely small components manifest in a watch that doesn't even run. And so you. Oftentimes, I find, at least when working with extremely fine mechanics, you'll have like five or six versions of every wheel sort of on your bench. And then you just got to pick and choose the ones that are friendly to each other and. And work. But Bulgari's got the power of LVMH behind it. They have a huge amount of cash for research and development, and they have spent a long time making sure that this movement, despite its minute diameter, is as robust, reliable, and easy to operate and assemble as possible. And I think it's a great addition to lineup from a branding perspective. Do I think it's necessary for models like the Serpenti to have a mechanical and even automatic option? I actually don't really, because I think that this is. This is craft and artisanship more than it is necessarily high technical watchmaking. And so I don't think anyone buys a Serpenti for the movement. Will people buy Serpenti because of this movement? Now I would say probably not. They might choose to have the mechanical or the automatic over the course because it's an option and they may covet that. And I think it's great that that option is available because there are a lot of women who are really into the mechanics as well and would buzz off having that on their wrist. But I think overall, like, it wasn't as essential to the brand as it maybe is for some brands to have like mechanical offerings. But it's great that they've done it and I think it's a bit of a flex really. It just shows like what they're able to do because of their, their size and their know how their shared savoir faire within the lvmh. And I'm glad to see it. I think it's good news. I think it's great for getting some column inches and people writing about these watches. And it certainly eliminates any potential point of criticism when someone might shrug and say, oh, it doesn't matter how good the Serpenti is, they're all quartz or something like that, then there's going to be options now to, to negate that potential point of criticism. But I think by and large it won't have a huge impact on the range. But maybe from a perception perspective, it's a very positive thing to have added.

D (28:30)

And using that as a stepping stone going into the stratosphere, the formula one of watchmaking, another world record. I mean, it's so much. Can you even keep track?

Rob (28:42)

No, I actually have no idea what's going on now. And the, these world records are extremely impressive. And again, you know, great for press releases and great for, you know, watch nerds to obsess over, but it's just preposterous. Like, it's absolutely ridiculous. I can't get my head around it. Like, you look at these watches, these ultra thin watches now from the front and they look like a normal watch and you walk around the side of the display case and it just disappears. It's not even there. Like, it's, how have they done it? I don't get it. Like, I really can't fathom the fineness of those components. I mean, this is the kind of thing where the breath of a watchmaker on those bridges and plates will be enough to warp them to the point at which there's no end shape between the wheels and the movement would stop. You must have to wear a mask or like assemble with your mouth below the bench, maybe bathe your hands in ice before you go anywhere. Near it, just in case your body heat is enough to. To put it off functionality. But I mean, what an incredible achievement. I don't think I'd ever dare wear something that thin. Does it appeal to you from a consumer perspective or is it, again, something that you think is like a statement of capability?

Alon Be Joseph (29:51)

Is the latter, but I know they're.

D (29:53)

Being sold and they sell out and they have a following. And I think it is important that they do it and keep on doing it because it showed the long game they always envisioned. It will take them a decade to get the status and respect as a jeweler, to become taken serious as a hotel luxury manufacturer. And they've achieved that a decade later. So I think it's a very wise strategy.

Rob (30:31)

I mean, they've achieved it and how, like, it's an incredible transformation. Like, there were eyebrows raised, obviously, when Bulgari really entered the high, high end watch game, but nobody's, nobody's questioning it now, are they. I mean, they're one of the first names that you mentioned when you talk about pushing the boundaries of watchmaking and the ability that they have in house, especially with all that jewelry backgrounds, they have a huge advantage over a lot of brands in that sphere now. So credibility is no longer a question. I think when it comes to this and by continuing to just destroy these world records, they're always going to be top of mind when it comes to innovators in the industry. My only question is, where do they go from here?

D (31:11)

From Stratosphere, you go to outer space and then into a black hole.

Rob (31:16)

So that's the thing, right? Black hole. So I'm thinking if this watch keeps getting any thinner, it's going to get into negative millimeters sooner. I'll actually.

D (31:22)

Yeah, like, like the interest used to be. Yeah, no interesting kudos to Bulgari and we can't wait to have our dear friend Fabrizio Buonamasa back on the show. I actually did not see him this whole week.

Rob (31:36)

No, me neither. But I mean, I spent most of my time in that little glass igloo outside Villa Sara San. So there are a lot of people that I unfortunately missed that I normally would have had a chance to catch up with. But I mean, if Fabrizio's not going anywhere, is he? He's one of the industry's modern legends, I think. So we'll get him on the show again soon and I can't wait for that either.

D (31:53)

And to circle back to the conversation about Geneva watch days. Stay tuned. We're having some brainstorm sessions with Catherine to try to do something cool this summer in Geneva.

Rob (32:19)

Sa.