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- [00:00]
Rob Nuts
Foreign hello, watch fans, and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nuts. Our friendly neighborhood jeweler, Alon Ben Joseph. And we're joined today at the Villa Saracen for the time to watch this event by Praneeth from Ming. Now, this is your first time here at Time to Watches, am I correct?
- [00:23]
Praneeth Rash Singh
That's correct. And first off, thank you for having me.
- [00:26]
Rob Nuts
Alon, Rob, it's an absolute pleasure. We always love having you on the show. It's a wonderful brand, as you know, very close to our hearts. But tell us, what is it that you're hoping to get out of this experience here in Geneva?
- [00:37]
Praneeth Rash Singh
To be honest, we didn't really have any expectations when we came here. We decided to do this show for two reasons. One, starting in late 2023, since late 2023, we've been trying to be more offline, and that means doing more events, just getting out there, meeting enthusiasts, collectors, friends from the industry, outside the industry. So we start with Dubai Watch Week. We did Geneva watch days last year, and this year we said, hey, we'll do the other Geneva fair, right, and find out for ourselves how different that is and what the experience is like. The other reason why we thought it made sense to be here is two months ago, we finally started working with retail partners. Okay, so full disclosure. Along here is our second retail partner and our first one in Europe. And our first retail partner was collective horology in the US and from the outside looking in, because even as an enthusiast or collector, I've never been to the April fair season in Geneva. This really feels like a B2B event where you're here meeting retailers, press, that sort of stuff. And I said, okay, if we're going to start working with retail partners, this is probably the best way to meet a bunch of people at once. Just start conversations and figure out who we get along with and who we may not.
- [01:54]
Rob Nuts
So it wasn't a direct goal per se, but you were very open to the possibility of being exposed to this more business environment?
- [02:00]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Oh, definitely.
- [02:01]
Rob Nuts
So how do you find it compares in terms of vibe to the September fairs that you've attended in the past?
- [02:07]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Well, I haven't been in the sort of the main. The main warehouse.
- [02:10]
Rob Nuts
Okay.
- [02:11]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Which is kind of what the Lexpo looks like from the outside.
- [02:13]
Rob Nuts
That's what it looks like from the inside.
- [02:15]
Praneeth Rash Singh
These pictures on, you know, on the press articles of the pavilions built inside, and you don't know what to expect. You drive past it and you're like, that's it.
- [02:21]
Rob Nuts
Yeah.
- [02:22]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Right. But anyway, so we're at the Villa Sarasan, and I think here, at least the vibe is informal. Not as informal as Geneva watch days. That's a whole other level of chaos because it's. You're seeing Geneva watch days feels like you're just hanging out with friends after summer break. Right, Right. Like you're showing watches and like last year we did with the. With the aha. So remember, at some point I was showing a Fleming and like, James was showing one of our watches, and somebody was like, where's. Where's the Shapiro resurgence?
- [02:50]
Rob Nuts
Okay, so for anybody that doesn't know about the initiative that you three brands worked on together last September, maybe just give us a little bit of color on that. Sure.
- [02:58]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Of course, the aha, which stands for the Alternative Horological alliance and probably tells you how good all three of us are at naming things, was basically an idea that Megan I had for a while, and it's something that resonated with Thomas Fleming and Josh Shapiro as well. The premise is just independent brands trying to do something different, coming together to help each other out.
- [03:23]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [03:24]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And we didn't really define it beyond that. There's no formal structure to it. We do have, like a member's charter. Okay. It's not really a club unless you have one, I guess.
- [03:32]
Rob Nuts
Do you have membership badges as well? Little pin badges that you wear?
- [03:35]
Praneeth Rash Singh
I'm here.
- [03:35]
Rob Nuts
It's coming.
- [03:37]
Praneeth Rash Singh
We're getting there. Right. But the idea was to just help each other out. And I think the simplest way to do that, for instance, was last year, Geneva watch days, where we said, hey, all three of us will show together. We'll sort of split the costs of, you know, renting a suite at the Boulevardage, which is not insubstantial.
- [03:54]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [03:55]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And I think even for enthusiasts, you know, if you say, hey, I really want to check out Ming, but there's like 50 brands I got to check out over the course of two or three days. You have to sort of triage and prioritize and becomes difficult decisions. But if I tell you, hey, there's a bunch of us, we're friends, we're also watch brands, we make cool stuff. It's a one stop, sort of not shop, but one stop solution or whatever. But I think that's a lot more interesting for enthusiasts as well.
- [04:21]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [04:22]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And makes it easier for them. And I think that's what made junior watch days very different for me last year, is you drop by and you're just hanging out with three different brands. And all of us are friends. And you're sharing anecdotes, and it's about watches, but it's also more than that.
- [04:37]
Rob Nuts
It's about community.
- [04:37]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Right. What community.
- [04:38]
Rob Nuts
And that's kind of what it is that drives watchmaking, which many people from the outside looking into it would see as a somewhat unnecessary luxury. But it's that heart and that feeling, that shared passion. And when you can see that shared, not just between a brand and the consumer, but also brand to brand to brand, you feel like the genuineness of the pursuit and you actually created something together that's shared between your three brands. So what was that?
- [05:01]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Well, and so Junior Watches was the first bit, but the second bit was, I think, when we made the announcement, we wanted to have something to show for it, something tangible, something that people could touch and hold. And so we presented a prototype of what we think is the world's first serially produced tantalum bracelet. We call it a universal bracelet because the design concept is to have a single bracelet that will fit on watches from Ming, Shapiro, and Flemiq. All of us have a model in tantalum. So the idea being you could get one of these bracelets. You have to get a couple of sets of end links, depending on the brand, but you could just swap them out, and you could have a full tantalum watch with bracelet on your wrist.
- [05:40]
Rob Nuts
Which is a significant saving for somebody that has all three tantalum watch heads.
- [05:44]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right?
- [05:44]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Yeah.
- [05:45]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [05:45]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Or any other tantalum watch where this will be compatible. Yes, it's a significant saving.
- [05:49]
Rob Nuts
So on that subject, because, of course, Ming is known far and wide for its research into interesting uses of materials and materials themselves. Tantalum is not very common in the watchmaking industry, though it will be known to most of our listeners. But why is it that this. What, this bracelet was able to be the very first serially produced tantalum bracelet, what is it about tantalum that makes it so difficult to machine?
- [06:11]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Well, I think there's a. Two separate questions. I think tantalum is difficult to machine, and I'm not the expert here. Like, you really. You guys should really have Josh on. On the show for this. But I'm going to steal his analogy. So he uses the analogy of peeling a vegetable.
- [06:24]
Rob Nuts
Okay.
- [06:24]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [06:24]
Praneeth Rash Singh
So if you have a really sharp vegetable peel and a carrot, peeling a carrot is like machining steel or titanium.
- [06:30]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [06:30]
Praneeth Rash Singh
So you sort of cut away from the metal to form the shape you want, whether it's a case, buckle, whatever it is. And with tantalum the basic premise is the same. You've got a peeler and you've got something to peel or cut away. Except in this case, the thing you're trying to peel is like an overripe banana that somehow has the same hardness of a rock, but it's just like squishy on the outside, but somewhat hard at the same time.
- [06:53]
Rob Nuts
Oh, it's like how Wet cement. Okay, right.
- [06:58]
Praneeth Rash Singh
So you always drag your fingers through wet cement either. And so that's what makes tantalum really difficult to work with. The reason why I think we were able to make the first serial production tantalum bracelet is because, again, all three brands are. We've sort of built our brands on thinking outside the box. Josh has built up this know how on not just guilloche, but machining, which he's had to do because he's made, I think, the first made in America watch since 1969 or something. And he's worked with tantalum. And we had the design know how and we had the bracelet design. So it was us coming together saying, hey, if Ming tried to do this ourselves, right? And we got maybe one potential partner in Switzerland to say, hey, we'll make a prototype for you. And when we priced it out, we'd have to sell that bracelet at 80,000 francs or something silly like that. I'm like, this doesn't make sense. I don't want to do this at 70 or 80,000 francs. Whereas going to Josh was like. Josh was like, yeah, I could do it for much less. It's not easy, right? But I don't think it has to cost that much. And there are ways we could work around tantalum based on my know how. And then for all three of us, like Fleming as well, they're like, hey, we have a tantalum watch. We're not going to develop a whole new bracelet for it. And even for two brands, it was too much of a risk to go into it together. But having Thomas and James on board and having three brands sort of get into this project together basically meant we could make it happen. It wouldn't kill any of our brands to try to do so. And we could make it available at. I wouldn't say it's an accessible price, but it is accessible for tantalum, right? And just like by way of an update, we've actually refined the design further and found additional ways to save cost. So we're working on prototype number two right now. So we actually haven't taken orders, even though people are like, hey, can we put down deposit? And because Josh came back from Geneva and he's like, I'm not quite happy with this yet. I think I can do better and deliver more value. And that's what we're working on now. And hopefully this year we'll have prototype number two and that will be like full on production ready. And we're hoping to get the price down. We said 20,000. We're hoping to get it down to, let's hope, 15.
- [09:04]
Thomas Fleming
Do you guys want more members in the aha. Yes.
- [09:08]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Short answer, yes. The longer answer. We're still trying to figure out what that looks like and what we want to do.
- [09:16]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [09:18]
Praneeth Rash Singh
There are, I think if you want a far more formal structure, there are a lot. There are other organizations. I mean, the HCI is a great example. They've been around for much longer than us. They do a lot of things for independent watchmaking. I think in the UK they have the. Forget what it's called. The wash is a line of, oh, watch, watch, the clock makers or something. But what was the other one? But anyway, this, there are organizations, right, where brands can sort of, if they want to be involved in something formal, where it's very clear what you get for what you pay and all that that exists. Aha Was really about friends getting together, helping each other out and came down to something as simple as independent watchmaking is not a zero sum game. So someone buys a Fleming or a Shapiro, it's not that they're buying that over a Ming or something else.
- [10:05]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [10:06]
Praneeth Rash Singh
They'll come back and buy the Ming at some point. Right. An independent watch buyer has an incurable disease, Correct.
- [10:13]
Rob Nuts
Thank goodness.
- [10:14]
Praneeth Rash Singh
As one myself. Right?
- [10:15]
Thomas Fleming
Yes.
- [10:15]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Right. There isn't the Holy Grail or whatever else. There's always another one. So a, if I'm going to lose a sale, quote, unquote, lose a sale, I'd rather do it to a friend, right. Who's doing interesting work and his worker is Peter. But I don't even think of it as losing a sale. I think of as all of us growing together.
- [10:31]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [10:32]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And it's whatever helps us keep that idea and that sort of feeling intact, we need to figure that out. And based on that, we'll grow. So yes, we're open to members. We're not quite sure how and where yet.
- [10:46]
Rob Nuts
So Ming's always been known as a trailblazer in many ways. Not just product based and branding based and distribution based. You know, that's something that you are known for, this alliance that you're forming. Right. Now with friends so that you're able to achieve things that alone would be either impossible or extremely risky. Is this the, is this indicative of where we are in the industry right now? Seeing more and more smaller brands, independents, ambitious independents who are really striving to provide something new and worthwhile coming together to create cross brand collaborations? Now you've done it with a bracelet that's never really been done before. The accessory sharing we've seen in recent years, Swatch and Omega, Swatch and Blancpain. We've seen a couple of, was it Urwerk and Debitune that collaborated for an MB and F and Moser and so on and so forth. Do you think that that is where we're going now in the future of independent watchmaking more and more. Know how sharing.
- [11:44]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Know how sharing. I think yes. Collaborations in the sense that it's marketed as a collaboration and it's dialed or the dial carries two brand names. I don't know. I mean, it's definitely been a theme. I don't know how long it'll continue to be a theme. I think some of them do much better than others because the intent in the theme is holistic, it makes sense and the story's there, while others tend to sometimes feel forced. So I don't know where that goes, but one of the things comes up often when I meet people from other brands, especially independent or smaller brands like us, is how much harder it is to get access to suppliers and how much more uncertain that is because you have the big groups sort of vacuuming up a lot of the interesting suppliers. Right. You know, I know one of the early case makers we worked with got bought out by lvmh and they got out midway through a project and again, they finished out the project. There was no issues or anything like that. But basically they came in and said, hey, like our capacity is taken up now. We're, you know, part of the group, so we don't really have room for outside orders anymore.
- [12:46]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [12:47]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And that was an issue for us at that point because we're like, where do we get our cases? We sort of had planned out based on the supply chain and that's happening across the board in, in multiple places. So for the smaller brands, it's like, hey, what happens to us?
- [13:01]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right?
- [13:01]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Because there are certain components, especially if you're trying to be experimental, where you don't, you don't, you don't have the option to have a second resource or a tertiary source. There's one guy who can do it, or the one guy who's agreed to do it, and for whatever reason, if you lose access to him, it's sort of game over for that product line.
- [13:17]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [13:18]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And so the conversations are on how can we reduce the risk, mitigate the risk or prevent that from happening. And I think to some degree what we're trying to do with Aha is similar to that.
- [13:29]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [13:29]
Praneeth Rash Singh
I mean, Josh has machining know how in capacity. I know we did another project with him recently where he made the cases for us in Tantalum again. And I know between the bracelet and the cases, there was a new CNC machine that he installed in his workshop and he was going to do it either way because he needed it for his own business. But us coming in and saying, hey, can you do this for us and help us out with this helped him commercially make that machine viable, like make it less risky, if you will. And so there are ways, there are creative ways in which you can help each other and build out, know how, production capacity, any number of things.
- [14:07]
Rob Nuts
Because as you say, it's not so much that you're really competing because your clientele is sick. And shared and repeat purchases almost exclusively. Going back to the idea of like co signed dials where you've got two brand names on a dial. I was thinking when you said that, I can't think of a failure in one of these collaborations. Maybe the Swatch Blanc Pan is the one that was the least, like, vociferously received. But I mean, the Omega, the Swatch Great. All the Moza. All the. What else? What, like the Fears and the studio Underdog. The studio Underdog and the Moza. I can't think of an absolute tank of a project.
- [14:47]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Well, I think if we stick to the world of independent watches. Probably not. Because independent watch brands tend to be, you know, founder led.
- [14:54]
Rob Nuts
Mm.
- [14:55]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And so there's very personal investment into the brand. It's an emotional thing. It's your baby. And so you can be very careful with what you do about it. I can think of other collaborations. I mean, I can think of one right now, but I'd rather not name names. But there's a few other from, like bigger groups or.
- [15:11]
Rob Nuts
Are you sure you don't want to name the name? It's a real time show. You're in. You're in a little glass igloo in the middle of Geneva. No one can hear you. It's not like we're recording this.
- [15:18]
Praneeth Rash Singh
There was collaboration with a superbike manufacturer watch and I was like, I don't get it.
- [15:25]
Rob Nuts
You just don't get it.
- [15:26]
Praneeth Rash Singh
I don't get it.
- [15:27]
Rob Nuts
No.
- [15:27]
Praneeth Rash Singh
I don't buy it. There's a bunch of Formula one collaborations that come out every year, every few years, where you're like, I don't get it. Right. What's. What's the. So a Formula one is a great example. So I have one of my first watches in my personal collection was a Girard Perregaux Chronograph from 99 2000. It's technically collaboration with Ferrari.
- [15:48]
Rob Nuts
Okay.
- [15:49]
Praneeth Rash Singh
There is no Ferrari branding on the dial. I think there's a horse probably where Girard Perregaux is, but it's very subtle. It's a case in. It's an aluminum case. And rumor back then had it. And GP never confirmed or denied. Rumor had it that the aluminum came from Schumacher's spare F1 engine block.
- [16:07]
Rob Nuts
Okay.
- [16:07]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Or like testing engine block or whatever. Carbon fiber dial, titanium pushers. I love the watch. Some people don't get it. That's fine. That's. That's watch collecting it's weight. But to me, that's an example of when I wear it, I'm like, I can kind of get the Formula One association here because back in 2000, putting carbon fiber in a watch, putting aluminum in a watch, or titanium, or having a watch that was 42 mm but so light.
- [16:31]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [16:31]
Praneeth Rash Singh
That was all kind of cutting edge.
- [16:34]
Rob Nuts
Yeah.
- [16:34]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Right. But if you did all of that, today doesn't feel the same anymore. You're not pushing new envelopes. And Formula One, for me, is about pushing envelopes.
- [16:41]
Rob Nuts
Yeah.
- [16:42]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Right. So that's what I mean by sometimes a story doesn't make sense.
- [16:45]
Rob Nuts
It's interesting because there's a lot of major brands, of course, that do do these Formula One partnerships, these Formula one inspired watches, or even team branded watches. But when it comes down to what Formula One actually is, it's exactly as you said. It's a testing ground for new ideas and oftentimes the things that are discovered within the process of creating supercars and, you know, these incredible machines that whiz around tracks at crazy speeds, filter down into road vehicles. And that's what it should be in watchmaking. And ironically, even though you're not partnered with Formula One, Ming is one of those brands that could be said to be a Formula One corollary of watchmaking, because what you're doing is inspiring other brands to try out these things in their own way. So you are the Formula One of watchmaking, even though you're not partnered with them.
- [17:28]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Well, firstly, thank you.
- [17:30]
Rob Nuts
No props.
- [17:31]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Appreciate the compliment? Well, I think we definitely try to be. The line between masochism and courageous is very fine. But yes, we try to be experimental. We try to make things that excite us and we've had. I've had a couple of people tell me that we've helped inspire ideas for them or given them the courage to like take that leap. And I'm happy we did. I'm glad we can. Are we the Formula one who watches? I don't think that's for me to say. I think.
- [17:58]
Rob Nuts
Okay. Okay.
- [18:00]
Thomas Fleming
Rob, did you know that? Well, maybe a step back for at least is that maybe I'm not that familiar with me. Ming is the brand horologier Ming Sr. Now today also Swiss based as well. We have the Swiss team here with us inside the villa. They did you know that Ming Tian, one of the co founders, the name.
- [18:22]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Founder, the creator but Praneet is CEO.
- [18:25]
Thomas Fleming
And also one of the co founders. Ming actually designs everything. Mr. Tien Mount called internally for the friends. Did you know I learned that recently from Praneeth that he worked on Loom and all the lume inside the new polar white lume by Ming. The brand is done by MT himself.
- [18:52]
Rob Nuts
I did not know that. No.
- [18:53]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Just to clarify, it's mixed and prepared by mt. The raw macule is prepared by him and processed and he works his mad scientist magic and then it's set into components by our partners. Right, but he's the one who like cooked up the recipe using raw components and I don't know what it is. He just disappears into a room, comes out with like fingers full of white powder.
- [19:15]
Rob Nuts
Yeah, well there's one or two people in the rich industry known for that.
- [19:18]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And I get a very expensive bill.
- [19:22]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right?
- [19:22]
Rob Nuts
Yeah, a very expensive bill, I'm sure. Well, hopefully there's no CCTV for people.
- [19:27]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Who didn't know a pure super Luminova like before. It's mixed in with binder and everything is pure luminous pigment. Well, I don't know if anymore but it used to be more expensive than gold. But given where gold is now, I don't know. I need to check.
- [19:38]
Rob Nuts
Yeah, yeah. I visited RC Tritech in Toyfen recently and I was like looking through their bags of just loom powder that they've.
- [19:45]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Pre crushed and it's like someone's retirement savings in there.
- [19:48]
Rob Nuts
It's insane. You've got a cabinet which is a.
- [19:50]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Mansion effectively or it's like one Patek Grand Comp or something.
- [19:54]
Rob Nuts
Yeah, it's stunning stuff. I mean in addition to what you're doing with the products. Ming is known for innovation across the board in, like, your. Your communication strategy, your sales strategy, the way that the brand is presented. Is there. Is there a chance that you've made it too difficult for yourself to keep going forward in that direction? You know, how do you keep upping the bar? How do you, like, keep pushing that envelope? Are you ever short of ideas, or are you always just trying to decide between the too many ideas that you have?
- [20:26]
Praneeth Rash Singh
So we're not short of ideas, but I would be lying if we didn't say every single launch was as anxiety inducing as it was on day one. I think the difficult conclusion I've come to, and hopefully Ming, too, because we've talked about this, is that's sort of how you have to have it.
- [20:45]
Rob Nuts
Yeah.
- [20:46]
Praneeth Rash Singh
If you ever get to a point where you're not worried if the launch will do well, you haven't tried hard enough. If you ever get to the point where when we show watches and people ask us, what's the inspiration? If I can draw a straight line from a to my watch, we haven't tried hard enough on the design front.
- [21:04]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [21:04]
Praneeth Rash Singh
There's always inspiration, but it cannot be linear.
- [21:07]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [21:08]
Praneeth Rash Singh
It has to be like, yeah, there's a little bit of this and that and this. And, like, if you squit the right way, you might see it.
- [21:13]
Rob Nuts
Okay.
- [21:13]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [21:14]
Praneeth Rash Singh
But it's gone through too many layers of, like, I guess, insomnia.
- [21:18]
Rob Nuts
So let me ask a question about not just the product and the creation thereof, but also, like, the storytelling that comes at the end. Because a lot of the time, a watch begins as a story, and people make the product to the story. But as you say, when you go through that design process, you meander all over the place and you're pulling ideas from elsewhere and maybe some old ideas that might fit into this concept. When you get to the end, does the watch still represent the original goal, or do you then go back and sort of, like, you know, pull everything into a new way of communicating what.
- [21:46]
Josh Shapiro
That watch is and why it is.
- [21:49]
Praneeth Rash Singh
It's actually a great question. And thank you. Thank you for asking. Because we struggled with this for the longest time. We still struggled with it because I think Ming and I suck at talking about ourselves. We also really suck at the elevator pitch.
- [22:03]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [22:03]
Praneeth Rash Singh
For the very same reasons, I point out. Because when someone's like, what's the inspiration? We're like, well, it depends how much time you got.
- [22:09]
Rob Nuts
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [22:10]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And over time, we've had to figure that out. And I think in the early days, what we tried to do, and I think it was a mistake, was we wouldn't give people a narrative. We'd say, hey, here's a watch. We're happy with it.
- [22:19]
Rob Nuts
Yeah.
- [22:20]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And here's the technical highlights. Like, a lot of our early press releases read like, I guess, a German instruction manual in hindsight. And thankfully, the designs are so great, the pictures are awesome. People just loved it. They supported us. But, you know, increasingly, as we interact with people and meet people, I'm like, if you don't give people a narrative or an anchor, they're going to find their own anchor. And more often than not, that anchor is going to be incorrect.
- [22:46]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [22:46]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And then you have trouble sort of building out your design language, building out your product line, and sort of speaking to community because they don't quite know. Everyone's sort of sitting in a different part of the room and you're not sure where to look. And I think in the last year, year and a half, we've tried to be better about giving people an anchor and working out from there, but the way it works is the design happens. Ming knows where the golf inspiration is from, and when all the press releases, he will write it out first. So the first draft is always mink. And then he's like, here's the story that is honest to the product and the design.
- [23:23]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [23:25]
Praneeth Rash Singh
But, yeah, it's honest to the product and the design and the intent, but it also gives people sort of a starting point from which to discover other things.
- [23:36]
Rob Nuts
Okay. Okay. Very interesting.
- [23:38]
Thomas Fleming
I'm dying to ask you this. I listened to our Mutual Friends podcast. Both Rob and I, his friends Asher and Gabe from Collective Horology. You were their guests. You spoke about the 5 minutes cabinet.
- [23:53]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Maro is going to kill me.
- [23:55]
Thomas Fleming
Well, he's here, so I'll hold him down.
- [23:58]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Hold him or hold me down?
- [23:59]
Asher
Him.
- [24:00]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Thank you.
- [24:01]
Thomas Fleming
So he doesn't attack us, but.
- [24:03]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Yes, what about it?
- [24:05]
Thomas Fleming
So tell us the story about that cabinet. Because I've had the privilege to hang out two full days with him, and I know nothing is lied about that story. So I want to use that anecdote as a gateway to your Swiss operation.
- [24:26]
Praneeth Rash Singh
So Mauro is. He's a very, very interesting person. I mean, you've met him, so I think nobody fully appreciates Mauro until they've interacted with him and met him in person. Right, but the Five Minute Closet, specifically, is. He seems to know everyone in town, and not just know everyone in town. He seems to know the right person at the right Time. And previously when he was CEO of Schwarzatien and we worked more as a supplier, production partner and client, I remember calling him up on several occasions and being like, hey, we had an idea. And this idea requires a certain movement or requires a production partner who can work with a certain material or know how in a certain process. Do you know anything about this? And I asked this question, assuming it would take a few weeks, month or two for him to come back with information. And more often than not, Maru would be like, ah, I'll call you right back. My friend personally is like, give me two minutes and like, it disappear, right? And always, especially in the case of movements, like they would appear. And he's like, is this what you're looking for? Are you sending pictures? He's like, is this what you're looking for? I have the contact with the person who has them. And that's where the five Minute Closet sort of moniker came up from. Because his knack for problem solving, when it matters, is immense. Have two anecdotes about this. One from last week when our mutual friend Nicholas from FEARS was messaging me because they had a slight delay in one of their movements. And he's like, hey, if there's any way, if we can find an alternate source that could do them earlier, that'd be super helpful because we've got clients obviously wanted to right by them. And I said, let me check. And I messaged Mauro and I was like, maro, do you know anyone who has these movements? And two minutes later he's like, I got two pictures. He's like, you mean these? Here's the number, here's who they need to contact, here's when they can contact them, and here's a rough price and all of that. And I send them out to Nicholas and I met and I was talking to Nicholas about this earlier today and he's like, yeah, I experienced that for myself. And I can see why that came up. The other one is actually a story that very few people know because we never talked about it publicly. Our diver that won the GPHE wasn't meant to exist in the form that it exists in, right? And the diver looked quite different in the original design. We partnered with a production partner to develop a process or they offered us a process that they developed, exclusive access first to market and everything else. And we said, yes, we'd love to do it. And that was supposed to go in the diver. We had 500 sapphire crystal dials ready delivered to them to treat with this unique new process. They'd come up with the watch was supposed to launch. Delivery was supposed to be a month out. We get a call from the supplier saying we're not doing this project anymore. That's it. And I'm panicking. I'm like, a. As a business, like, I plan to put this launch out. Cash flow is a very real thing in our world. You have to pay your bills, you have to take care of your team, suppliers waiting on you. You've got all this stuff, like, what's going to happen? And Maro's like, hey, I'll call you back in an hour. I'm driving down, knocking their door down. We're going to have a meeting. It takes him a couple of hours, but he calls me back and he's like, we figured out what happened. It's a bit of a messy situation. The previous management at the company that we were working with basically oversold the process. And the new management that come in was like, hey, we'd love to do right by the commitment that was made, but it's literally impossible. And so we have to back out. And now we're still panicking because we're like, that doesn't help us. We still haven't figured this out. Ming's like, all right, I guess I have to redesign. I'm not happy about this. We've had this a year in, in the pipeline. And he, he redesigned the watch in over dinner, basically.
- [28:12]
Rob Nuts
Right, Carol Genta style.
- [28:15]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Yeah.
- [28:15]
Rob Nuts
Yeah.
- [28:16]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And the next day, Mauro had to basically come up with an entirely new supply chain.
- [28:21]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right.
- [28:22]
Praneeth Rash Singh
We had to make new prototypes, shoot the prototypes and relaunch them.
- [28:26]
Thomas Fleming
Crazy.
- [28:27]
Rob Nuts
Right?
- [28:28]
Praneeth Rash Singh
And I think if we didn't have Maro on board, we would have missed the boat by like two months. And for a small brand like us, that, that's tough.
- [28:37]
Thomas Fleming
Of course.
- [28:38]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right?
- [28:39]
Praneeth Rash Singh
Yeah. But, yeah, that's, that's why the five minute closet. Sorry. So he's. He's great at solving these problems when you really need him to.
- [28:46]
Thomas Fleming
You already answered my question. Why should you be here? But you, you. You've said it. All the anecdotes told us why, so. That's amazing.
- [28:55]
Rob Nuts
Yeah.
- [28:55]
Praneeth Rash Singh
There's some things that I don't think watches have to be 100% made in Switzerland or Swiss made, but I think there are some things the Swiss are still the best at doing. Part of it is because they've been doing it for decades, and regulation, infrastructure and everything here is set up to encourage that. But you can't really make a watch unless you're in Japan. Maybe you can't really make a watch without Switzerland.
- [29:19]
Josh Shapiro
Well, there you go.
- [29:20]
Rob Nuts
You heard it here first.
- [29:21]
Josh Shapiro
Lol.
- [29:23]
Rob Nuts
I think that's a good point to stop the episode and to say thank you to Praneet for taking so much time and talking to us. It's our longest episode that we've recorded thus far.
- [29:30]
Thomas Fleming
Thank you, Praneet.
- [29:31]
Praneeth Rash Singh
If anyone's still listening and not asleep, thank you very much.
- [29:34]
Rob Nuts
We're very awake. We are extremely awake. Oh, no. Well, we can't, we can't guarantee that at all. Yeah, hopefully not on the wheel. If they listen to this while driving, wake up. If that's the case. Thanks for listening, guys.
- [29:45]
Praneeth Rash Singh
We'll be back soon.
- [29:46]
Rob Nuts
Cheers. Anytime.
- [29:48]
Asher
Horology Ming, first time at time to watch this. They came as a test. Praneeth Rash Singh, the CEO, took some time to sit down with us. Dear friend, I love him. I love the brand, love everything about Ming. They've been on the show before, so if you haven't heard the one hour episode, please do so. They actually did not exhibit any new models there. They came just to feel the market and I find that already an interesting concept that they came without an agenda, without any pressure. They're independent and they think outside the box. They do everything outside the box. I found it very fascinating that they have this tranquility and open mind to take everything as it comes. How do you perceive that strategy, Rob?
- [30:48]
Rob Nuts
Yeah, well, I think it's.
- [30:49]
Josh Shapiro
It's a nice approach to have if you're able to have it. Ming has done a great job in the last few years. I mean, this, the brand and the man as well. Of course, to carve a position for themselves within the industry which is kind of untouchable now, to be fair. They have a dedicated community. They have a lot of people lining up that want to buy their watches. They are endlessly creative. They operate effectively in multiple price points, better than many new brands have ever been able to do. That's not something to be slept on, by the way. The fact that they're able to offer entry level pieces, but also pieces that stretch into the 30, 40,000 francs is a remarkable achievement. It's a testament to their branding, the fact that the concept was the brand rather than the watches itself. And this experimental take on watchmaking, that is something very close to my heart. I think that again, it shows here in this presence of theirs at time to watch. As they're experimenting, they're seeing what can happen. They're seeing if there's conversations that can go further than just the Superficial level, you know, through conversations of this ilk, you became the first retailer of Ming. Was it globally or was it in the Netherlands?
- [32:03]
Asher
Europe, dear friends. Ashrangay became the first in the world and got the rights for North America.
- [32:10]
Josh Shapiro
That's Collective horology, by the way, for anyone that doesn't know Ashwin Gay personally.
- [32:14]
Asher
Correct. And soon after, a few weeks after, we had the honor to launch it exclusively in Europe, which we still do probably so.
- [32:24]
Josh Shapiro
I mean, that's a crazy thing that came from a conversation. It wasn't necessarily their goal to go out and find retailers because Ming doesn't really need retailers per se. I think they are aware that being part of the traditional ecosystem benefits them in some intangible ways. And those intangibles do add up to purchases over time. Something that a lot of marketers neglect is this, this feeling, this sort of sense of trust, which is isn't just establishable BY Following a 10 point plan of, you know, three Instagram posts, two YouTube videos, one email newsletter, blah, blah, blah. You know, sometimes it has to do with this sense of what we can touch, what we can trust, if we can go somewhere, if we can talk to another human in real life, even if they're on the other side of the world, the fact that they exist and they're there ready to have a conversation breaks down a barrier that, that can be a barrier to purchase. So I think it's good that they've established this network and I think that it's wise that they also have partnerships with not just excellent retailers like you and like Collective Ferology, but also spaces now access to your spaces and your networks in those areas because it's a great way to get Ming watchers out in front of people further afield.
- [33:33]
Asher
Yeah, it is. And they are true partners. And what's cool that I had a US customer visit me. I didn't have the watch. The watch was just launched. It's the new 2901 Midnight, which I've seen the prototype in Geneva, but they didn't show it to the public, only to their partners. By now, when this episode airs, the watch has been launched. Consumer came to see it. I rang up Asher. I'm like, guys, do you have any chance to get the watch on the east Coast? So they did. And we are all about connecting watches with collectors. I always joke around, I'm in the business of getting watches on wrists and we do this in a triangle of two retailers together with the brand. And, and this is something I love. This is the antithesis of what the big publicly listed groups are doing in the watchmaking industry.
- [34:31]
Josh Shapiro
And let's hope the men keep doing it because they're rewriting the rulebook and giving newer brands coming up through the ranks not just ideas of how they can do the same thing, but also the confidence to maybe try something that's never been tried before.
- [34:42]
Rob Nuts
Let's get the guys back on the show again soon because we missed them, right?
- [34:45]
Asher
We do, and let's do so indeed.
- [34:57]
Thomas Fleming
SA.