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- [00:00]
Simon Wolf
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Alon
Watch fans and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show. We're here on site at Villa Sarasan for Time to Watchers and I'm joined by Simon Wolf of Wolf Watch Winders. How did you come up with that name, Simon?
- [00:18]
Simon Wolf
That was a really difficult one. It's the family. It's the family name. Fifth generation this year. We're 191 years old. We celebrated 190 last year. I can do simple math. So it's a family business and so what better name to put on the door than the name of the family? And we actually went through a rebranding about almost 15 years ago because we were known as Wolf Designs and we were known as Wolf Designs because we design great things. And the name of the family was Wolf. And we got a few people who would say, are you a design company that you know, will build a building or something or architects? And I heard that enough times to realize that I think we needed a clearer message. So I was, at the time, I was living in LA with my office out there and sat with these great guys, Andre and Eduardo, who helped me with a lot of marketing back then. And we just strategized. And you know, it's always the simplest, isn't it? And if you look at the name wolf, it's, it's a, it's a name of an animal. Obviously it works in just about every language and people identify with it. You know, it's either a singular animal that is very self sufficient and people like to be like perhaps, or it's a pack animal and everybody looks after each other with a matriarchal, you know, female and, and, and the dominant males. But everybody works together. So it was those elements that people would, I think, react to positively. And then we put the date, which is when my great, great grandfather started the, the business of 1834. And even if you can't do the math, you could work out that it was old and there's a family and it's old. And then you learn that the, the guy that is running the business is a family member and he's, you know, done it his whole life, took over from his dad 25 years ago, you, you, it all hopefully clicks into place. And I, and I have to say that when we made that change and we started using the new logo, it was a sea change. And it, it, it was yet another lesson. Learning them every day of how important it is. The image that you have and how people perceive you can be as simple as four letters on a Piece of paper.
- [02:34]
Alon
There are so many things that I want to touch on in what you just said there. One of the human questions in my mind is what's it like shouldering the responsibility of a family owned company that's been running for four generations prior to yours?
- [02:51]
Simon Wolf
I think if you grow up into it, which I did it, it doesn't suddenly fall on your shoulders. So you sort of grow into it and therefore it fits more easily. I mean, I started, I mean I did several other things before I came into the business. I was even a flight attendant. That'll give you something to ask me questions about. And you know, one day sitting on the sofa, quite literally, and my father says, you know, you should perhaps go work with, with Tony Cook. He was, was the sales representative in the southeast of England at the time. And I'm going back to the early 80s and you know, I've been lucky a couple of times in my life. First being born to the parents that I had because, you know, my dad had a successful business and could send me off for a good education. So that was the first piece of luck. And the second was that my father owned a company and he could offer me a job which it wasn't like a given. I was going into it. So at the ripe old age of, you know, what was I, 19 and a half or 20, I started working with Tony Cook and I fell in love with it. I suddenly the light bulb went on one day when I was putting sample bags in the back of his Granada four door beige horrid looking car. And there were these scuff marks on the wheel well where you'd lift the bag in. But every now and again you wouldn't quite get it on the back seat, you'd scrape the wheel arch and you could see all these scuff marks in black. And I realized that this guy Tony did this every day, every day. And that relationship that he built with customers was something very special that you only get over time. And things took time and that was a turning point. And so not the turning point, but the point where I suddenly, not suddenly, but I really realized this was something maybe for me. And then I went to work in the factory and had a whole, whole apprenticeship. But to get back to your, your original question, what that meant for me was that very young, very naive, didn't know my ass from my elbow and just grew into it and watched my father and other people of, you know, in the senior management team do what they do. And so as I became more important to the business As I grew into it more and more it was just a natural progression. So I didn't, I didn't feel like suddenly I had all this weight on my shoulders. Do I feel it now? Yeah. When I think about it, when I, when I sit and go, bloody hell. You know, we're, we're in 190th year as I did last year and we threw this massive event at the Royal Opera House which isn't easy to throw an event in because they don't actually let many people in there. You know, the likes of Lonpier or Rolex are invited or allowed to do an event. You know, folks like me most, most oftenly aren't. So yeah, that was, that was a great amount of pressure to make success out of our 190th year. Very long winded answer. But there you go.
- [05:55]
Alon
We love for long winded answers on the real time show. That's what people come here for. You know, Alon and I, my co host who unfortunately isn't present at the moment are known for going on a bit so you know you're in good comfort.
- [06:05]
Simon Wolf
Okay, great.
- [06:06]
Alon
Talking about time and talking about this foundation date of 1834. What on earth were you making in 1834?
- [06:13]
Simon Wolf
Because wristwatches didn't exist, we had nothing to do with the watch business back then. My great great grandfather, actually his son before him was a silversmith in Hanau, Germany. And that area still today is known for, for goldsmithing and silversmithing. And as such he started to think one day I need to put my, my silver jewelry and other pieces into a box because boxes make things look nicer and it's a nicer presentation. And that was the genesis of the business that you see today. Taking care of something, putting it somewhere where it would be safe. And this is more packaging back then. But he was noticed a small community of jewelers. He was noticed by, by the other makers and they said to him can you make me a box like that? Obviously your sales have improved. I like my sales to improve. And with a very short amount of time it began, it became the business that he was in. He was now making boxes and he ceased making silver. And that was, that was the beginning of the business.
- [07:15]
Alon
So what does the man that has probably had every watch brand in the world pass through his winders wear on his wrist?
- [07:23]
Simon Wolf
Well, today I've got a Jaeger Lecoultre Polaris and it's one of all my watches are nice. Whether they're one I'd found in a. You Know, in a car boot sale, which I find all the time, or something of this nature, which is, you know, more expensive. I love watches with blue dials. I'm a sucker for that for some reason. Yeah. I don't know why. So that's what I'm wearing today. It's a, it's a very dressy. It's a very. It feels like an important watch to, to wear. It's definitely for me. It's a. I'm. Look at me. I've got a great watch on my wrist and I can afford it, you.
- [07:57]
Alon
Know, give that impression.
- [07:59]
Simon Wolf
It does that. And, you know, you don't, you don't know me or your listeners don't know me at all. But I'm. I'm not the guy that needs to show by wearing a nice watch. But I think they're the most amazing little machines. And so if I can afford to buy a really nice one that looks nice, I'm not going to buy one just because it's expensive. I just wouldn't do that. It is all about how it looks and how it feels on my wrist. That's what's important.
- [08:23]
Alon
Interesting. So what other watches have passed these criteria? What else is in your collection? You don't have to go through the whole lot. We've only got another.
- [08:32]
Simon Wolf
I've got a BREITLING NAVITIMER that's 30 years old.
- [08:36]
Alon
Nice.
- [08:36]
Simon Wolf
I've got a Bell and Ross. I have, I have an Hippel from ages ago.
- [08:45]
Alon
I have so many to fashion. You know those ages.
- [08:47]
Simon Wolf
Yeah, well, I'm always ahead of myself. Omegas, Seamaster, Aqua, Terra. I have a beautiful. I'll be wearing it tomorrow. Single hand Hermes mechanical that I found in Soho a few years back. I think I got it for a song. And whenever I wear it on my wrist, all the watch guys lose their minds over it. And then the, the most important watch for me is the one that my wife gave me, which is a vintage approximately 1960 Omega that was inscribed on the back when we got married. I'm missing. I'm missing tons of watches. I have a terrible memory for that kind of stuff. I've. I've got about 45 sitting in, in my winder at home. So, yeah, they're all looked after.
- [09:29]
Alon
Very good. Well, they couldn't be living in a better. A better place, I'm sure.
- [09:32]
Simon Wolf
Yeah.
- [09:33]
Alon
Tell me more about this rebrand that reinvigorated the company. It feels to me, I was amazed that wolf is 191 years old because it feels like A young, youthful, very dynamic company. And obviously a lot of that comes down to your communication style, imagery that you use, the products that you produce, you obviously identified. It was necessary. But talk us through that process. Like, what was it, what was it like to have to, I guess, analyze every single aspect of your family's business? That had been, you know, influx for many years.
- [10:09]
Simon Wolf
The idea that we should change the branding, I suppose, had been percolating in my mind for some time. Branding is a fairly new word as well in the history of man. You know, we now can create a product or even a service and a brand that goes along with it, you know, a trademark. And because of the way the letters, the words, the imagery on that, you know, that brand, they say something just because they sit together, you know, on the page of a website or on a business card or wherever they may sit, people react to it. And that I think I learned more recently than maybe others in the last 20 years. You know, 30, 40 years ago, there wasn't the ability to create a brand and launch it in the way we can today. There wasn't social media, there wasn't email. I mean, I grew up when, you know, we didn't even have faxes. You know, we were, we were still sending things by telex and thinking that that was a great way to communicate with, with the factory. So, you know, you, you, you are, in the end, you're driving at what you think is the energy of the business and how you can tell that story. You know, it's the elevator pitch. You know, what do you say to somebody when you're in the ele. The 15th floor and you got literally 15 seconds to tell them who and what you are. It's the same with a, with a, with a, with the logo. And as I said earlier, the, the idea of just reinforcing this as a family, it's, it's got some, it's got some heritage to it because it's been around so long. And then you've sort of touched on the playfulness of the business. I'm, I'm quite silly and I, and I, and I like to be somewhat irrelevant. Look at things from a different perspective. Never take myself or the company too seriously. It's serious what we do. And if you were ever to come to the factory and you saw the QC process that we go through, it's why our watch winders, you know, stand the test of time. And they're the only watch winder that counts turns per day has returned to start a locking cuff on and on and on. So we take what we do very seriously. But we want to have fun. I mean, I say that to everybody in the business. You know, if we're not having fun, let's not do this anymore. And I think that trickle down sort of sentences has worked over all these years. And now we have, globally, we have three offices, five warehouses. And you know, we have about 60 people in the business that are directly, you know, working and employed by the company. And Then another easily 60 that are agents, independents or distributors. Uh, so there's a lot of, A lot of people that, that I come into touch into contact with. We just finished our sales conference in Lausanne. We, I took everybody out every night. We perhaps drank a little bit too much. We had a lot of fun. And you've got people from, you know, central Eastern Europe, you've got people from Australia, Korea, Mexico. I mean, globally, very well represented. And what I love is I throw them all into this melting pot of a sales meeting or a dinner. And then you see this sor. Of cross pollination going on where, where, you know, Doug, who's one of my sales reps in America, been with me almost the longest he's sitting talking to the Koreans that actually can't speak his language at all. There's a translator with them. And so Doug, who, who is a. Is a fast talker, is telling him about what he does and how he does it. And it's just, I just look at that and I go, that's, that's what this is about. Communication. You know, the excitement for what we're doing. Talking about the product, perhaps, or how they do it in their country. And, you know, almost to a point where it's no expense spared. I, I will take an evening on and on and on. If I think, you know, it's, it's, it's playful and people are having fun and learning stuff from each other. And that's not a requirement, of course, but I don't want everyone to sit in their camps. You know, all the Italians sit together and all the Germans sit together. You know, I spit them all up, make it more fun.
- [14:14]
Alon
So you're a community building, family oriented, fun loving guy. 1, 1 word answer to this, please. Would you describe yourself to the listeners of the Real Time show as a silly goose?
- [14:26]
Simon Wolf
Yes.
- [14:27]
Alon
Very good answer. Thank you. Very good. Okay, now moving back to something you said earlier, which I found very interesting. You were talking about the value of branding and its impact and wow, gust of wind just blew down the sign.
- [14:39]
Simon Wolf
That's a, That's a sign that that is a very heavy question coming my ways.
- [14:43]
Alon
Yeah, it is actually quite heavy and I hope that it lands in the way that I want it to. You said that you felt that you learned that importance of branding maybe later than some people around you. And it comes to. Well, it doesn't come to us all. It comes to many of us, the lucky ones, at some point in our lives. But despite having learned it, do you really feel it? Because when you talk about the products, well, you talk about the people that make the product and the people that work with and for you. And obviously, you're obviously a people person, but you have a real fire about the way you talk about the products. And it seems to me, I'm not saying that you would dismiss branding, but that you find branding almost a necessary evil and the product is really what excites you.
- [15:30]
Simon Wolf
Yeah, I mean, I'm not a fan of social media because of, I mean, there's, there's detrimental things that it does to the young kids of today. And if you're not careful, it sucks you in and you waste five hours of your life in a day. So I think, would I say it annoys me? It annoys me when you see somebody again. I'm, I'm, I, I'm all for justice as well. You know, I've worked really, really hard my whole life. I've, I've stood at the grocery store and not had enough money to pay for the groceries that I was running through the till. I mean, we had serious financial problems back in the 90s and you know, I was standing, you know, trying to make a living in America. So I know what it's like. I mean, a lot of people think that, you know, probably a rich kid and in a big family business and. No, I mean, it was, it was really on its knees in the early 90s and I worked damn hard to pull it up. So I did all that before. Branding was a thing you could do easily and there's nothing easy in life. And so, yeah, I always focus on product. I like making things as a person a, I'm a woodworker. But that's come to me in the last, you know, decade or so. So, you know, I believe the, the better product should always win out. It should. And, you know, that's why I focus so hard. Whether it's at the jewelry case business where we have luster lock treated fabrics that stop tarnishing, or the fact that when you look at our jewelry case, it is, it's, it's beautifully made and if you count up how many individual parts there are to go into it, there are literally hundreds in a medium to large size jewelry case. How do you, how do you actually do do it? With incredible attention to detail. And when somebody else just bowls in with a big name and some be, you know, VC money behind them, it kind of, it annoys me, you know, not that I want it, but it's like, ah, you didn't really do your time. I did. But I mean, that's just me, me being, you know, you know, I want things to be fair, I suppose.
- [17:28]
Alon
Yeah. Well, I think you're absolutely justified. I mean, it's, it's no fun. Is it like watching the craft that you're in be denigrated by people who don't care about it? They want to make a quick buck and they've got enough bucks to allow them to make more quick ones. And that's not going to sustain the industry. If people don't focus on the product and don't maintain the quality standards or the artisanal desire that goes into it, then we will lose many, many great things over time. So I think that you're right to take that standpoint, certainly having lived it yourself and it makes perfect sense. And thank you very much for giving me an honest answer because I could tell there was something in the way that you said, learned that. I just felt there's more to this.
- [18:08]
Simon Wolf
You're intuitive because you picked up on that. Yeah. You know, everybody works hard in life or whatever their perception is, is their perception. I always say perception is reality. So we have to adapt. Whether it's a buyer, a store owner or a supplier that I'm buying a leather from, or a vegan leather or a biobase or whatever, you have to, you have to adapt to their perception because if you press yours on them, it doesn't always work so well. And that goes, you know, that is, you know, we're obviously very customer centric. We want more customers and we want our customers to be really, really happy with what they buy. So I want to be absolutely honest, tell them what we do, how we do it. And I can do that with, you know, the utmost, utmost confidence because we've been doing it so long and I've worked so hard at it that, you know, I can, I could sit back a lot more than I do and, you know, watch the daisies come up or whatever. Now that's not the good one, that's the bad one. That's about pushing up daisies is the bad one. So, yeah, it's, it's just about re energizing every day, every week, every month to, to bring something new. I mean, we're already working on product for next year. We finished this year's product lineup. We've got it all scheduled, you know, but we're going to Hong K on Saturday, myself and the marketing team and some product development folks and we're going to be shooting some video of new product actually being made and seeing all the hand work and all of that, which people love to see. So yeah, we don't stop. I'm. I have two days to wash underwear and iron a shirt and then I'm back on a, back on a plane.
- [19:50]
Alon
Man after my own heart. But please don't stop. Like keep going because we need more people with that mindset in the industry. So thanks for your time, Simon. I really have enjoyed this one. Not that I didn't enjoy the other ones, in case anyone wonders what that meant, but personally this, you know, as a craftsman, it's really touched me. So thank you very much.
- [20:05]
Simon Wolf
Thank you very much. Been a pleasure.
- [20:08]
Alon
Right.
- [20:09]
Rob
I really enjoyed that chat with Simon. I really felt quite close to him by the end of it, actually. I felt like I understood where he's coming from and the importance of Wolf in the industry. It's been around obviously for generations now and is a major player behind the scenes in many ways, making lots of things for brands that you maybe wouldn't expect, expect and obviously with their own products also. Alan, have you got any experience with Wolf yourself?
- [20:33]
D
Well, at Ace Jewelers, we're official retailers for Wolf, so. Yes, sir. And why do we sell them? Because they're family owned, family run, independent, proudly made in Asia, but they back up their quality. So in the 50 years of existence at Ace Jewelers, we've sold maybe all moving machines that keep your automatic watch running and we have even had Winders for your hand wound. Winders, talking about Scatalo del Tempo, talking about Swiss Cubic. And we've seen the prices of these winders skyrocket. But strangely enough, Wolf is rather fair in their pricing.
- [21:21]
Alon
So.
- [21:23]
D
Uber cool what they do and kudos to them that they keep the pricing low and they market themselves exactly in between all the Asian brands that are obviously made in Asia and Wolf obviously is as well. But they fill that mid tier between the really high end winders and the very expensive one. We also used to sell Buben and Zulg leg and I forgot now the name of the, the cylinder that rotates 360 with the glass lid on top. But it begs also the question, do you actually need a winder? So you, dear watchmaker Rob, please bust the myth if it's good or bad for your automatic watch to put on a winder.
- [22:18]
Alon
Oh, what a thing to drop on.
- [22:20]
Rob
Me within a short period of analysis. Look, we've had this conversation before, I think many times, but we'll just touch on it briefly. It's really down to personal preference. There are good things and bad things about winders. The obvious good thing is that it keeps your watch wound so you can just grab and go if you like to rotate through a series of automatic watches that tend to run down after a couple of days, depending on their power reserve. The bad thing, of course, is that the movement is in constant operation, so you will experience shorter service intervals, wear and tear and whatnot. I personally do not use winders. I do covet the idea of maybe one day having one of those incredible, like, installed safes that has all your watches on it, like, displayed and spinning away. I think that's a great visual, but more as an art piece than something practical that I would care for. Look, a good automatic watch doesn't take too long to charge up on your wrist at all. One of my favorite things to do with my favorite watch, my glacier original panorama datum chronograph in vibing orange, is to give it a little wind when I take it out of the case just so that the power reserve indicator creeps into life. Okay. So I can just see that there's a little aperture on the sub dial at 9:00, and it's just a slot that shows white when the power's empty, black when the power's full. So I wind it just enough so that the black creeps into the lower edge of this indicator, and then I put it on my wrist and I see how long it takes for the watch to fully charge throughout normal wear. And it's a couple of hours of just normal. And I don't run around waving my hands in the air. I'm not particularly expressive, gesticulate. I'm not particularly gesticulatory. So I think just with normal operation, a good automatic watch can get up to speed pretty, pretty good pretty quickly. So, yeah, although I like the objects watch winders, I don't personally invest in them, but I also am not particularly hardlined on people that have a different opinion. There you go.
- [24:20]
D
Thank you for that. And Wolf doesn't just make watch winders. They make beautiful collectors boxes, portable pouches, and what I bought from them is a stackable system of both trays for my pens, my watches, my wife's jewelry, and obviously holders for watches. So it becomes a higher tray box and I literally stack them together. Since Ace is moving, I have an issue now. I need to relocate and rearrange my whole private collection besides the collections for the boutiques. So I will be ordering more Wolf stuff soon. Stay tuned. Simon.