← The Real Time Show
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- [00:06]
A
Hi, and hello, watch fans, and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker and our newest host, debuting in her first episode, officially as a lead participant of the Real Time Show. What are we gonna call you?
- [00:17]
B
Scarlett?
- [00:18]
A
I was resident Scarlet. Scarlet.
- [00:21]
B
It was a bit, wasn't it? I don't know what you wanna call me.
- [00:24]
A
Well, we've got the Friendly Neighborhood Watchmaker, then Alan nicked that and went for the Friendly Neighbourhood Jeweler. David's the resident provocateur, and you can be. I don't know, can I just be.
- [00:33]
B
Like, the Humble Rambler?
- [00:35]
A
The Humble Rambler. Okay, to be fair, I was thinking something along the lines of, like, woman about town editor at large, blah, blah, blah, but Humble Rambler?
- [00:44]
B
Yeah. Those other titles just make me sound cooler than I am, and I'm not. I think Humble Rambler is someone that just chats. A bit of bleep.
- [00:55]
A
A bit of bleep. You can swear on this podcast. Don't worry, it's.
- [00:57]
B
I know, but I'm trying to be better this year.
- [01:00]
A
You're trying to be better?
- [01:01]
B
Yeah.
- [01:02]
A
January 10th, and you're really trying to be better? Yeah. How's it going so far? Have you fucked up yet?
- [01:06]
B
Don't make me say it. It's going really well. Thank you.
- [01:12]
A
All right, so. Okay. Right. Let me try it with your new name, the Humble Rambler. Okay, here we go. Hi, and hello, watch fans, and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nuts. And our humble rambler, Scarlet Baker.
- [01:28]
B
It doesn't work, does it?
- [01:29]
A
I kind of like it. I just. I'm gonna have to work on my delivery, but I kind of like it. And our humble Rambler, Scarlett Baker.
- [01:36]
B
Hello, listeners.
- [01:39]
A
What an entrance. Hi, Scarlett.
- [01:42]
B
Hi.
- [01:43]
A
Welcome back.
- [01:44]
B
Thank you very much for having me.
- [01:45]
A
Again, as everybody who listens to the Real Time show will know, Scarlett's been a guest before, but now she is part of the team and she is joining us along with Alon David and our chatbot, Claris Body, who I don't think you've met yet, have you, Scarlett? We have a chat.
- [02:00]
B
Yeah. I'm honored to be part of the gang as your local Humble Rambler from London. Thank you.
- [02:07]
A
Your local Humble Rambler from London. That's true. Actually, we've hit another country now, so we've got Germany, Amsterdam, France and London. And I guess the ether for Claris in play. So we're doing pretty well globally. Right? So we're laughing a lot because we do laugh a lot whenever we get together. And we have luckily enough been together a few times this year in different places around the world at different events. And we're going to have a look back on 2024 before we look ahead to the year we've just stepped into and discuss what it is we'd like to see from 2025. So what is your earliest memory from 2024? How far back does your brain go?
- [02:41]
B
My earliest memory, I'm going to say from last year. It does feel like. I know it's a cliche, but it seriously does feel like a long time ago now. And can I just also take a second to say that it's the first priority proper working week of January. Does it not feel like this January has gone on forever?
- [02:58]
A
Is it still January?
- [02:59]
B
Yeah. I'm like, I'm cold and I'm bored. But anyway, I digress. My earliest memory is probably being in starred for the announcement of the return of the Piaget Polo 79. It was epic. It was one of the most incredible launches I've experienced in my short time in the industry. It's very much ingrained into my brain still to this day. Brand to see an epic revival of a vintage classic and a brand really lean on into this vintage moment that we're having. I loved it. And it was actually my first time in Stard as well. So that's probably. I think. Yeah, that was February, I want to say. I don't really remember much beyond that where Istad is in Switzerland. It's. It's a lovely little place in Switzerland. Have you ever been?
- [03:49]
A
No, never. Tell us more.
- [03:51]
B
It's. It's really, really beautiful place and we were hosted there and we got taken up the mountain. Unfortunately, they don't have a lot of snow in Stad anymore. Now, I couldn't be completely wrong here, but I do believe it was a massive skiing sort of resort at one point. But I think global warming has kind of had a bit of an impact and they don't have as much snow now.
- [04:11]
A
How rude.
- [04:12]
B
So when we were there, where we were staying, there wasn't that much. You're right, it is rude. It is very rude. But we got taken up the mountain and the ski lift in the evening with like champagne going up the ski lift.
- [04:25]
A
Bloody hell.
- [04:26]
B
Which is how I like to ski to the top of the mountain into this kind of beautiful chalet. We had this incredible dinner and we all got given these Piaget jackets.
- [04:36]
A
Oh, is that where that thing came from?
- [04:38]
B
Yeah. So it was a Recreation of the jacket that Ursula Andres had in the. The campaign from when the Watch first came out.
- [04:45]
A
Oh. If you've not seen this jacket, honestly, listeners, you have to find some pictures. Are there any pictures of you on Instagram wearing this jacket?
- [04:51]
B
There is one of me on Instagram wearing it. Yeah.
- [04:55]
A
It's incredible. Olintheshirelintheshire. Yeah, we're gonna have to add that.
- [05:00]
B
That felt so shameless.
- [05:02]
A
Well, it's gonna be plugged at the end of every episode now, so you're gonna have to get used to listening to it in the Shire. Honestly, this jacket, what is it, like a satin bomber jacket with, like. No, it's more like a varsity jacket, innit?
- [05:14]
B
Yeah, it's like varsity bomber jacket with like these yellow sort of stripes down the arms and then the huge Piaget crest. Yeah. On the chest. And it's. It's so cool. So cool. And I hope that one day when I'm buried, I will be buried wearing that jacket.
- [05:31]
A
Wow.
- [05:31]
B
I know.
- [05:32]
A
Okay, that was a pretty dark thought. But actually, to be fair, I can't guarantee I'm gonna allow that to happen, because if you die before me, which is highly unlikely, but if you were to pre decease me, I'm having that, Jack. I want it in your will. It's incredible. It's the best giveaway I've ever seen.
- [05:47]
B
Yeah, it's epic. I love it. It's. It's stunning. Which is why it's. It's staying on me till the bitter end.
- [05:53]
A
Till the end beyond, by the sound of things.
- [05:55]
B
Can you tell that I'm really in a January mood? It's very bleak.
- [05:59]
A
Well, you know, I feel you. Like, last night I was out with my friend. His birthday's on February 14th. Dr. Love, we call him. He's a doctor, that's why. Yeah. And he was like, oh, yeah, it's my birthday soon. And he was. He was mocking me because I'm 40 this year and he's. He's still 38. He's about to turn 39. And I was like, oh, my God, it's in five days. He was like, rob, it's still January. And I was like, I'm like a month early on so many projects. I just. I'm in absolute denial. It's. It's been a long winter.
- [06:28]
B
There's a Game of Thrones quote. I'm really trying to find that, but it's not coming to me in time.
- [06:33]
A
Winter has thoroughly come, everyone.
- [06:35]
B
Yes, it has.
- [06:36]
A
It's all winter. But my earliest memory of 2024 goes all the way back to last winter when I was testing the Sherpa TRTS Shameless Plug Ops edition in Austria, paragliding and skiing.
- [06:50]
B
Wow.
- [06:51]
A
And, yeah, it was the perfect watch for the job, I would say.
- [06:55]
B
I have a question to ask you about that. So you were testing a watch. How does it feel when you're doing that? Like, in terms of, you know, I don't want to say responsibility, because that's probably not the correct way to say it, but more, you know, you're out there to really focus on this object and I suppose have more of a relationship with your watch than ever. When you're purposely testing it. Like, do you feel a sense of attachment to it? Like, when you're doing that, are you kind of apprehensive of how it's going to behave? Like, what are you looking for?
- [07:25]
A
Well, in this case, and in a couple of cases of watches I've tested in more extreme environments, they've actually been mine already, so I don't feel like worried. I have tested some extremely expensive watches, like some 50k plus concept diving watches underwater. And when it's on your wrist, even though, you know, like, the brand has asked you to test that, to go and have an experience with it, just to wear it, do what you would normally do. We're not doing crazy stuff in labs most of the time. Sometimes we do, but most of the time it's just like, wear it throughout the regular experience of the day.
- [07:57]
B
Did you say you were paragliding?
- [07:58]
A
I was paragliding, yeah.
- [08:00]
B
That's. That's quite out there.
- [08:02]
A
Yeah. But to be fair, the watch doesn't really have to do much. It just has to stay on.
- [08:05]
B
You're not really guaranteeing any surfaces, are you, at that point?
- [08:08]
A
No, no, no, no. It. I suppose it's a little cold wind. It's not only an issue for watches, especially not under a cuff, but the strap worked. The strap stayed on my wrist, which was good. So it held it in place. It's interesting. Like, it can sometimes be a bit, well, what's the, what's the word? Woolly. You know, the testing procedure. Because it's like, well, what are you actually testing? You know, when you're testing the watch, when you're skiing, what is the watch doing? If it's not a apple watch or something that tracks your kilometers or your speed or your roots or something like that, then what on earth are you doing with it? And the answer is you're wearing it. You're wearing it for comfort, like when you're doing particular activities. Obviously, some watches are fine for some sports and some aren't for others. So, yeah, I will wear occasionally quite heavy watches for running, which doesn't bother me because I'm very used to it. But for most people, that would be a real inconvenience. You want something lightweight. You want something you can almost forget is on your wrist. And then if you're trekking, then you might want to watch with loads of functions, like a Casio Mudmaster, and that's massive. So it's unsuitable for rock climbing because you haven't got any wrist flex. You can't bend your wrist back far enough. So the same thing is kind of true with a watch. In this case, the Sherpa was actually a particularly good watch for skiing because it has the twin crowns at two and four. So there's a marginally more wrist movement without any discomfort. Like, you don't get the crown digging into the back of your wrist. It's stuff like that. And just if you fall over, which, because I'm not a very good skier, I occasionally might, just to test the watch, of course.
- [09:29]
B
I really want to see you skiing.
- [09:32]
A
It's not that impressive. I look like a toddler. And actually, the funniest thing is there are a couple of videos of me skiing, and most of the time, toddlers are whizzing past me with no sticks.
- [09:42]
B
They are the worst on the slopes. They're terrifying. I'm not a competent skier at all. I like to do it, but my. My inhibitions take over. But the little kids, when they do that little, like, snake down the mountain. Scary. You did have me at the word woolly there. Thank you for that description.
- [09:59]
A
You are very welcome. I got wiped out by a snowboarder last year skiing. She hit me from behind. Yeah. And the most British thing, I apologized. She was very apologetic as well. We both went flying, but luckily the. I wasn't going very fast, but she just completely lost control. Came over a bit of a jump and kind of landed on my. Well, my buttocks, I suppose, is where a snowboard made contact. And then she went spinning off, and I went flying around like a turtle, as I normally do.
- [10:25]
B
We're supposed to be talking about watches, aren't we?
- [10:27]
A
The watch survived. The watch was fine, as you said. Yeah. You do build a relationship with the watch, and in some ways, that's. It's not the point of testing. The point of testing is to make sure the watch can withstand the environment to which you're subjecting it. But it's also interesting to see like in which environments you are able to build what sort of connections with what sort of watches. So case in point, when I was first in the Arctic with Fortis, I didn't have a Fortis at the time. And they said, what would you like to wear? And I said, I'll wear whatever you have spare. I'm not fussy, I'll just test anything. And they gave me the white Marine Master M40 on a white rubber strap, which was the most feminine of a bunch, really. And I was like, yeah, probably not my kind of thing, but I'll wear it and I'll see how we get on.
- [11:08]
B
White strap. You think that's quite feminine?
- [11:09]
A
Yeah, white strap. I would say so. It's my gut response to it. Do you disagree?
- [11:13]
B
Yeah, I'd say it's quite universal, quite an all rounder.
- [11:16]
A
White as a color, quite a baller strap. I'm not sure I'm cool enough to.
- [11:21]
B
Wear a white strap.
- [11:22]
A
That's my problem. Thanks, mate. So anyway, I was wearing this watch that I was not particularly fussed about when I first got my hands on it. But over the week and especially in that environment, you know, you're surrounded by snow, there's plenty of snow there. Stard could borrow some from the Arctic. And it is the perfect watch for that environment. The way like the, the hazy, low hanging sunlight like hits that dial and brings it to life and makes it feel like it's part of the expanded environment. Not only made it the perfect watch to wear there, but also created a huge emotional connection between me and it while I was testing it. And so it was the first fortress that I actually got for myself and I wear it frequently. I took it skiing once and it was a great watch for skiing on the rubber strap. I've now put it on the block bracelet because I prefer that. I find it a little bit more versatile. But it wouldn't be as good for skiing on the bracelet. That's my honest opinion, I think.
- [12:17]
B
Yeah.
- [12:17]
A
You know, a watch on a rubber strap or a fabric strap. Perfect. That was my first memory of 2024 and I guess we probably won't be able to remember much before Watches and Wonders, except for British watchmakers.
- [12:29]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [12:31]
A
Because the Real Time show was an official media partner there and it was.
- [12:34]
B
Actually the first time we met in person.
- [12:36]
A
It was, wasn't it? Which is bizarre.
- [12:38]
B
It was. Yeah, it was. And you were handing out TRTS stickers. I had to really think of the acronym then. Yeah. God, I just Remember that as being a hectic day for the best reasons. When I arrived, I think I got there sort of mid morning. The cues were insane and it probably sounds a little bit cliched, but it was almost like a really proud moment in a way, to know that this was happening on UK soil and in London and seeing so many brands come together. And the one thing I find about British brands as well is that they are all very different. I don't. Do you agree?
- [13:13]
A
I do, yeah. But why do you think that is?
- [13:15]
B
I think when you're working in a market that is predominantly smaller than, you know, we compare it to Switzerland, for instance, where there are so many brands that are, you know, coming from there, I think you want to definitely make your mark and be a lot louder with your presence when it's a more concentrated group of people trying to put out a product. But I just think visually they're all quite different and everyone seems to have a bit of a different story. Like, there are people who are part of this group of British watchmakers that have known and loved it since they were yay high. And there were people that have fallen in love with watches later on in life and decided, yeah, I'm going to have a stab at making a watch brand. And, you know, they found themselves in that hall at British Watchmakers Day with fans flocking the table. I mean, Christopher Ward, their table, I couldn't even get near it. It was insane. The amount of people that were, you know, just desperate to see these beautiful Bel Cantos in person. I think it was a really great day and I'm intrigued to see how it progresses. And I spoke about this recently, actually, with a couple of other journalists. But my hopes for events like British Watchmaker Day are that we hold Switzerland on such a pedestal, and rightly so, to an extent, of course, and particularly with events, we go to watches and wonders. We go to Geneva watch days and you go to these beautifully curated events where you're walking into a room that they have all these booths and whatnot. And I want the UK events to kind of take on that same sense of pride, almost like, you know, even coming down to the table that they present their watches on. And it to be a bit more of an experience visually for people, not just, you know, here's our trestle table and a cloth and we've printed out this board behind us. You know, we've proved that we're on a progression beyond that now. So I feel like I'd be interested to see brands push the scope of their presence a little bit more. And to show that, you know, we have made our mark now in this industry and we're on a trajectory that's going really well. We have, you know, we have good fans and collectors across the globe. And I think. Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense?
- [15:21]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I think that one of the major advantages of the British brands, and I think this probably speaks to what you're saying about how there's so much diversity within the British watchmaking scene out of necessity to be seen and to be heard above the drone of Switzerland. I wouldn't call it noise because it's not. Very. Barely deserves to be referred to as a noise. It sounds too characterful. But the endless drone of conservatism that comes out.
- [15:42]
B
What a bloody good sentence. That was a great sentence. Just to clarify, dear listeners, it is 5pm on a Friday evening, so that was very good, Rob, Thanks.
- [15:55]
A
Neither of us have touched alcohol yet either, so we're doing this dry. Totally dry. Oh, dry January, eh? We're almost a third. We are a third of the way through. Almost. Almost. So I think that that diversity actually helps with the mutual support of the British brands, the support they enjoy from one another and the fact they have banded together in this group. Almost like a. Almost like a group on their own. You know, you've got Richemont, lvmh, Swatch Group, and then you've got the British alliance, and the British alliance is coming for the Swiss at this point, you know, as a unit and a unit that doesn't seem to cannibalize itself too much. So many people within that room were owners of Christopher Ward's Isotopes, Schofields, and let's not forget Studio Underdog, because we're talking about those queues. Yeah, outside. And there was two sessions. It was a really clever thing that they did. I think this was really, really smart. They had a morning session and they had an afternoon session to manage the flow of guests. And had they not done that, yeah, it could have been unworkable, because like you said with Christopher Ward, they were sometimes three, four people deep. Studio Underdog was just. I mean, it was. It was a mess. There was hundreds of people climbing over bodies. I think I saw people getting trampled to near death.
- [17:07]
B
That's a hot mess. That's exactly what you want to see, though, you know, to know that there is that love and admiration there. And, you know, this was in the middle of them doing their pizza tour of the globe. So you have Richard and Andrew McCutcheon dressed in their pizza outfits like, it was brilliant. It was a really proud day. And I'm really intrigued to see where it goes in the coming years and how it continues to push itself and evolve. And, you know, we really continue to show everybody that British watchmaking is a thing, and it's a damn good thing.
- [17:42]
A
And it's here to stay. No, it is something to be proud of. I mean, I remember when I started my career, there just wasn't a British watchmaker, really. British watchmaking scene. It just didn't exist. Yeah, there was, I think, when I was doing my apprenticeship. So already. Oh, let me see. Already about eight years into my watchmaking journey, Giles Ellis Schofield was just starting out, and he'd launched his first watch, the Signalman, of which I'm a proud owner. Right now, it's sitting about 2 meters away from me. Eventually I got one. Eventually I bought mine off Thor Svarbo of gq. Shout out to Thor. Top bloke. Yeah, Great writer and lovely man. And I bought mine off him. He's a lovely man. Are you laughing about? Do you know something I don't know?
- [18:26]
B
It was just the long pause. Great man.
- [18:29]
A
I was searching for the words to do him justice. Okay, so I have the Signalman. And I remember reading QP magazine on my lunch break when I was a little watch student, dreaming that one day I might be able to meet Giles Ellis, who now I regard as one of my best friends, not just in the industry, but just one of the people I love and respect most in the world. And I feel very fortunate to have got to know him and to have spent a great deal of time with him and to talk with him frequently. And that's another thing about the British watchmaking scene, how you can actually get direct access to these people that you look at from afar as these untouchable icons of their craft. And you can become close to them, you can become friends with them, you know, because the volume of sales in the British industry is not so much yet, that These are faceless CEOs, like corporate suits at the top of these companies. I mean, if you know Richard from Studio Underdog, or if you know Mike from Christopher Ward, or if you know Jose from Isotope, any of these guys.
- [19:28]
B
It'S an open door. Like, they're so happy to chat, and there's no. There's no wedge between you and them. Like, you know, they're passionate about what they do and they want you to care, and they're so happy to have a conversation And I really love that.
- [19:40]
A
And let's not forget the, the glistening patriarch of the British watchmaking industry, Nicholas Bowman, Scargill of fears, everyone's favourite person. So could you ask for a better ambassador?
- [19:50]
B
Do you know what he did this year which just was so swee. So there was a, another British event, but it was in Brighton and again all the brands that you just mentioned were all there and it was a really great day and I was hosting a couple of talks with, with each of the brands and, and Nicholas, at the end of the day apparently they always have roses at the, the shows that they do and at the end of the day they always give a rose to the women in the rooms who just came up to me and gave me a rose to keep and I actually pressed it and I have it pressed as a reminder of the day that it was one of the British watch events of the year.
- [20:24]
A
It's amazing these little artifacts that we pick up along the way. I saw your almost museum esque display of things you've accrued over the last couple of years of being in the industry and it's already, it's just incredible. Like all those memories just tied up in these little things. And it's really nice when brands are thoughtful like that. And give us something to remember by great marketing too because you know, here we are on a podcast. Let me see. That must have been in September, right? The event you're talking about down in Brighton. So that is four months ago at least and we're still talking about it because of the rose.
- [20:58]
B
I know, it's crazy. And on the topic of rose and affection and you know we were talking earlier about the relationship that you had with that watch you were testing. I want to ask you if there's any watches from the past year that you feel you forged a little love.
- [21:13]
A
With new releases or ones that I've bought or ones that I've had for a long time and have really fallen for again, which, what do you want to know about?
- [21:22]
B
Let's talk about new releases. Let's, let's talk about some of the big hitters from, from 2024 and to actually, to quote, to quote Tom Exton tge on Instagram, he coined the best phrase ever. We talk about hitters, not shitters.
- [21:38]
A
Okay.
- [21:39]
B
So great, isn't it?
- [21:40]
A
There are two hitters that stand out in my mind. A third that you've already mentioned, but I own, I own none of them.
- [21:46]
B
Okay.
- [21:47]
A
Yeah. So the Piaget Polo 79 was a dream. I mean it was, I didn't know.
- [21:53]
B
What good dreams were at the start of the year and now I do. Like talk about educating people.
- [22:01]
A
Yeah, that was a real treat for a lot of us who have lamented the absence of that model. It's like the Vacheron 222. When that came back, you know, we just, our hearts just stopped for a second. Then when we realized we weren't able to get one.
- [22:16]
B
Not only because your heart stopped.
- [22:19]
A
Yeah. Or brief. Yeah. We managed to kick ourselves back into life and remember, okay, this is, this is maybe not for us, maybe not for everybody, but it's wonderful for the industry that it exists. It's great that it's back. You know, these are, these are true icons. It's a much overused word. But these are really, really great designs that deserve to be given another go around using modern manufacturing techniques. And they smashed it because they didn't fuck around of it too much. And that's the key.
- [22:44]
B
I think the main success story from that watch as well though was the knock on effect it had of people digging deep into archives of brands and particularly from that period. You know of any watchers from 70s, 80s, they're insane. Like some of the creations that came out at the time and I think I've particularly noticed amongst a lot of friends that are looking to buy a watch and not necessarily going down the route of a modern watch but pre owned, you know, they've sort of looked towards the Piaget and the Chopards and the Quorums and, and gone down that route. And I think it's really pushed people to look back at these incredible design language back then like and how it always kind of comes back in this full circle motion. I think it's particularly open the doors to a lot of younger collectors as well and people that, you know, first time buyers or have an interest in design or other creative disciplines and thinking I want to get myself a nice watch but I don't want to get something that everyone else has. So they go down the vintage route. And I've seen a lot of people now wearing really cool Piaget and I think it does ultimately come back to that launch.
- [23:53]
A
Do you know of what I lament the absence more even than those beautiful watch heads. Tell me it's the bracelets, Scarlett, the bracelets of a 70s, like when you had like gay Freya's like making these incredible bracelets for like 10, 20, 30 brands and they were works of art within themselves. It was such a glorious period that now is. It feels like a completely different archaeological era almost when you see these knitted woven steel or white gold or yellow gold bracelets, you think, yeah, if they could do it then, why don't they do it now? And luckily enough, one brand has done something similar, and it's the first really modern brand that I can think of that's tackled this with such aplomb, and that is Ferland Mary with their Disco Volante bracelet.
- [24:45]
B
Don't get me started on this watch. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. If I could have one watch from the last year, it would be the Disco Valente. Hands down with the bracelet. Yeah, it's beautiful.
- [24:56]
A
Because I personally believe that the key to iconic watch design is often as much about the bracelet, if not more, than it is about the watch head. I mean, think about the Nautilus and the Royal oak and the 2, 2, 2. They all had incredible integrated bracelets, like truly integrated bracelets that were so much a part of the watch's character. You take those away, you put them on a leather strap, and you're like, yeah, okay, fine. Yeah, but we need more.
- [25:22]
B
It's not an integrated bracelet, the one I'm going to mention now, but it is a bracelet that I actually really love. That came out last year, I think it was. Last year was Beaver.
- [25:31]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [25:32]
B
The bracelet was beautiful with all the faceted links.
- [25:35]
A
The bracelet was the best bit about the.
- [25:37]
B
I thought it was incredible. And I think bracelets are massively underrated. And leaning on to. What we're talking about with this podcast is, you know, what we want to see more from 2025. I really, you know, we talk about straps being the sort of forgotten part of a watch, and it's so true. And I really think this scope to push that this year, and I'm not just talking about changing the color of, you know, leather straps. It's about really harnessing some kind of responsibility when you are using, you know, metal in a. In a bracelet on a watch. Like, I think there's. There's more development to be done there, and I'm intrigued to see who will kind of be the outliers with that. Particularly, you know, I. Coming from a background of seeing a watch sometimes as a more jewelry LED object, the bracelet is super important to me. And I think, yeah, Biva did a really good job at that.
- [26:28]
A
I mean, it's like 75% of the watch on. On the wrist is the bracelet.
- [26:34]
B
I know. We kind of forget that, don't we, really?
- [26:36]
A
Well, I think too many people do. Yeah. And I think that it's something that I'VE been banging on about for a while now. And also I've got a term for you that you might like.
- [26:43]
B
Go on.
- [26:44]
A
Because you said, oh, this isn't integrated. But it's, it's definitely interesting and part of the design. I wanted to differentiate between integrated bracelets and bracelets that, although were not integrated, were absolutely essential to the character of the watch. And the example I use most keenly is the Rolex datejust okay. Or even the day date, you know, on the President bracelet. They're not integrated bracelets. You can put them on anything. You can put mine in NATO. If you want to go to hell, fine. It's your choice. But I call them integral bracelets.
- [27:14]
B
We listen and we don't judge.
- [27:17]
A
You know, judgments are fine once you've got the data. We should never judge until you know the facts. But when you know the facts, you can make an assessment that somebody's a heinous example of human life. That's fine as long as you're not doing it without the facts.
- [27:29]
B
Okay, if anybody says watches aren't polarizing, that wrong.
- [27:34]
A
Yeah, right. So I think it's important, I think it's really important to like have that almost middle category of like an integrated bracelet which cannot be worn with any other watch. And the watch cannot, without an adapter be worn with any other strap. And then a regular strap, regular lugs, but in between there's something that has regular lugs. But the bracelet is so, so important. It is integral to the design. So integrated, integral. And then I don't know what everything.
- [28:00]
B
I like this, I like this, this methodology of categorizing.
- [28:04]
A
It happened because I saw somebody refer to a non integrated bracelet as integrated because it was integral to the design. And I was like, okay, okay, there needs to be some terminology here. So I started putting it into articles a couple of years ago without like mentioning it was a neologism. I was just like, I'm just going to put it in there and eventually other people will read these articles and then they'll start using it and then it'll become a thing.
- [28:25]
B
I've been saying that wrong. Oh my God, the irony. I've been saying that word wrong. Is it neologism?
- [28:31]
A
Well, how do you say it?
- [28:32]
B
I've been calling it a neologism.
- [28:36]
A
Well, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm wrong. You know, there's a lot of words that I say.
- [28:39]
B
I can't say ethereal. I say ethereal. I don't know why.
- [28:43]
A
Okay, well, that's my favorite word in The English language and anywhere you want, you say. Yeah, it is actually. That is, yeah. Ethereal. Yeah, I say ethereal. How do you say it? Ethereal. Yeah, that's bonkers.
- [28:53]
B
It sounds more natural to me to say ethereal.
- [28:57]
A
Normally I excuse myself because I'm quite Americanized. So sometimes I'll say like, what is it that I say? Say this? Controversy. That's, that's American controversy. Yeah, it's controversy in British. Right. So I, I always get that one wrong. So. Well, if I'm saying neologism wrong and it's, it's actually what, what did you say was neologism?
- [29:15]
B
It's definitely wrong.
- [29:17]
A
Neologism. Yeah, I could be right.
- [29:20]
B
Neologism. I don't know.
- [29:21]
A
Anyway, watches settle on neoglysm, okay? So listeners, please write in on a postcard for the correct pronunciation of ne. Neologism, you say? Great. All right, so where were we up to? Were we up to watches and what is it? No, you asked me ones that made an impact and I said Piaget was my first. But the two real heavy hitters for me and I own neither. I will own one from one brand one day and I very much hope that one day in the distant future I'll own one from the other. And that is Toledano and Chan and anything Phil and Alfred Touch. And also obviously our dear friend Sylvan Berneron and the successful release of the Mirage and the very, very well deserved Audacity Prize at the gphg. So the Mirage for me is basically the best watch of our generation. Discos fully agree.
- [30:04]
B
Oh yeah, I'm by no means gonna fight you on that. The Movement, first and foremost, genius. I, as a non watchmaker, as someone who finds physics and anything mathematical quite difficult to comprehend, the shape of that movement defies any kind of logic in my brain. Like, you know, we're so accustomed to seeing a very standardized shape and how he has achieved that in the crown as well. And it speaks to this kind of distorted, eccentric, really playful attitude to watchmaking, which I think we have been in so much desperate need of, of sharing and reminding everybody that it can just be fun. But then you look at this sense of fun and realize the level of detail that has gone into it is phenomenal, like, you know, down to the buckle as well. And I think it was fully deserved, absolutely deserved at gphg.
- [31:04]
A
Do you know what my favorite component is in that entire watch?
- [31:08]
B
The hands.
- [31:09]
A
No.
- [31:14]
B
What'S something specifically in the movement?
- [31:16]
A
It's definitely not in the movement. It's on the outside.
- [31:19]
B
The Dial.
- [31:21]
A
No. Although, good guess. Both sensible guesses, and also maybe more of a reason why I'd buy the watch. But the component that tells the story for me better than any other are the spring bars.
- [31:31]
B
Oh, the spring bars, okay.
- [31:34]
A
Because they're gold. And there's a funny story about Sylvain and his spring bar supplier in Switzerland. He sent through the drawings for the spring bars to his supplier, and he said it must be made from gold. And the girl's like, yeah, yeah. It's like, all right, Sylvan. All right. Okay, yeah, we'll do you some prototypes. No problem.
- [31:52]
B
This is. I love this industry so much. Like, the level of detail someone has gone to. This is an obsession on spring bars is iconic.
- [32:02]
A
It is a hundred percent Sylvan. Like in. In one component, one forgettable component. It is. Watchmaking is all the things that the old greats like Breguet or GenV would install. Finish under the dial, finish every single angle, every component. Even if it's never going to be seen by human eyes or touched by human hands again, it has to be perfect, because that is the craft. And the spring bars being gold was absolutely essential to Sylvan's vision of this watch being gold, gold, gold, gold, all the way through, wherever possible. Had to be gold. Anyway, a couple of months later, the guy comes back, he says, okay, we've made the prototypes for yourself, and here are the. The two invoices to choose between. You've got your steel spring bars, and then you've got your gold ones. And Sylvan just looks at him. I actually think it might have been on the phone. But he's looking at him through the phone, you know, not a video caller, old school landline. But he's staring pointedly into the distance, you know, daggers pouring from his irises, and he's like, what is this? I told you there must be gold. The guy's like, yeah, you're joking. You're joking, aren't you? It's like, that's gonna cost, like, 3,000 times as much to make them out of gold as it is out of steel. Just have them out of steel. Nobody's gonna know the straps in the way. And he lost it, as is his, you know, prerogative when someone disrespects his vision. And he was like, you just fucking. He ripped up the steel spring bar invoice and just threw it into the air. And I like to imagine that the world moved in slow motion as those pieces of paper flutter.
- [33:33]
B
Tumbleweed.
- [33:34]
A
Yeah. And he was like, you go and you make these spring bars out of gold and never disrespect my name again.
- [33:40]
B
And that is what you call creative genius.
- [33:43]
A
He's a genius. I mean, everything. Genius is the word. What can you say about him and about the watch, about the concepts, about the obsession it must have taken to get there? And, yeah, we, we see if for those of you that know him personally, you know, he's poured everything into this. He's risked everything. It's taken sleep, probably years off his life. Thankfully, he's got the great support of his. Of his wife, like, standing by him, making sure that he stays on the straight and narrow. But it has been difficult to get to this point. But nothing worth achieving is easy. And he's. He's shown us that as difficult as it was, it was definitely, definitely worth it. So, yeah, that's. For me, that is. I will remember 2024 for the rest of my life for that reason.
- [34:22]
B
I was gonna say, if you were to show somebody in a hundred years time a watch that symbolized the watchmaking industry what people wanted, what they craved, what they needed, and you showed them one artifact of that time, I think it would be this watch.
- [34:39]
A
Yeah. The only one that comes close in terms of that is the Bulgari Serpenti, one of the high jewelry models, because that, for me is like pure treasure. And I hope that when the human race eventually destroys itself and everything civilization is burned to dust. No, I said I hope. When? I didn't say I hope it happens. I'm just saying assuming that it does at some point. I think it's the odds on likelihood.
- [35:00]
B
But then the difference is there that we have, you know, over. Over periods of time and decades, we've had many iterations of the Sopante, whereas. I don't know, I just think there's something about this watch that totally embraces the attitudes of society today and what people want.
- [35:19]
A
I mean, it's certainly a better watch. It's more of a watch than a piece of jewelry. And the Serpent is more of a piece of jewelry than a watch in many ways.
- [35:25]
B
Yeah.
- [35:25]
A
It's just that it expresses the same kind of thing. It's, wow, you have gone beyond everything that is necessary to create a work of art that has a soul almost. And when aliens come down and survey the ruins of humanity and they find a burner on Mirage poking out from under a pile of dust on the wrist of a withered skeleton, they'll be like, whoa. What the.
- [35:43]
B
Were these people untouched spring bars that have survived total armageddon yeah.
- [35:50]
A
The leather straps all but eroded away with the gold. Spring bars are still gleaming.
- [35:54]
B
And why? Because they were cold.
- [35:56]
A
Absolutely. I'll tell you what. If I was an alien and I found that, I'd be like. I'd be like, brian, we have to get out of here quickly. These people make the spring bars out of gold. They must be.
- [36:04]
B
They're smart.
- [36:05]
A
They're dangerous. Leave this place. Okay, so thanks to Sylvain for providing the last line of defense of humanity against aliens. Because of your obsessive genius and Watches and Wonders, we sort of. We've made it eventually there. What do you remember from Watches and Wonders?
- [36:20]
B
Do you know what I actually remember?
- [36:21]
A
The Grand Duke.
- [36:22]
B
The Grand Duke. So it was my second Watches and Wonders that I have experienced. And it was only on day three that I realized. So for those who have never been to Watches and Wonders and it's housed in the lovely Pal Expo, Big old warehouse vibe in Geneva, right by the airport, where you are kindly serenaded by all new lovely watchers that are coming out for that year. But it's massive. My step count each day was around 20,000, which was wonderful. Obviously undid all the hard work in the evening with Rob Nudds in the pub. But the thing that I didn't realize, and I do remember from Watches and Wonders vividly, is that it's actually divided into sections by conglomerate. So you have the LVMH bit, you've got the Richemont bit. You've got the sort of independence. But no. Scarlet, being Scarlett, had organized her appointment being like Tag Heuer, Jaeger, Lecoute, Zenith, Hermes. So I was walking and I'd done my appointments, like half an hour, half an hour, half an hour. Like back to back. This is running like a mat. There you go. I've sworn. I've sworn.
- [37:36]
A
It's 2025. Be better.
- [37:38]
B
I know. I know. I was running like a mad woman. And everyone's like, are you okay? And I'm like, yeah, I just need to go sprinting. But sprinting. Julie. To see some of. Some of the most intriguing watches. I would say. I know Watches and Wonders got a bad rap last year.
- [38:02]
A
Yeah.
- [38:03]
B
And I'm willing to fight people on this.
- [38:06]
A
Okay, well, fight me. Let's go for it. I'll say. I said it was pretty underwhelming. What do you reckon was redeeming about it?
- [38:12]
B
Ms. Yeah.
- [38:14]
A
Okay. Hermes always smashes it out of the park these days. Yeah. Ms. Is great. But you reckon Ms. Safe the entire fair.
- [38:20]
B
I think it really ushered the industry into a direction it needed to go. I'm going to come back onto that into a sec. Oh my God, it really is Friday and I've lost all capacity to speak the English language. I'm going to come back to that in a second. I think it's okay to have a year where there isn't a hero because it's, you know, we still saw so many brands turn up and show good watches. And I think there's something healthy about that in itself. And I think perhaps there is a year that needs to be quieter so that the next year can be the year that a watch comes out that we're going to see in a museum in like 50 years time because it's so bloody amazing. I don't know. I think it's very easy for us to sit here as consumers and expect and demand, but you know, it takes an awful long time to create not just a watch, but to create a masterpiece. So I feel like we shouldn't feel disheartened because we were showed, yes, some, some great watches, perhaps there were favorites that people had the year before. And you know, there were watches from 2023 that I do remember more than some of the ones I remember from 2024. But I think, I don't know, I think we're quite quick to judge in that regard. I think it's okay to not always have a hero.
- [39:42]
A
No, I think. Well, I think both things can be true at the same time. I mean, all the watches we saw this year, or the vast majority of them have been in the works for 2, 3, 4, 5, maybe in Rolex's cases, 10 years already. Like it's a preset release plan. The Swiss do not react as dynamically as you might expect to shifts in the market or consumer behavior, as they probably should. And so it's totally plausible that every so often you get a year that is just. It's not bad. Like there was a lot of nice pieces that came out and a lot of like sensible new colorways or mild upgrades etc, etc. There just weren't that many home run smashes. And that's not to say that it's not a travesty that it was a bad year. Like nobody who's. Well, maybe some people who are a bit more sensationalist are. But from my perspective, I'm just saying, oh, it's just a bit of an underwhelming year. Like there's not, there's not banger after banger after banger.
- [40:32]
B
Do you not think that that leads the way then for the independents to come in and be like, right, well, if the conglomerates are, you know, sitting on their laurels, waiting to bring something out next year, this is our moment. And I think that's very much what happened in 2024.
- [40:45]
A
Yes. No, I don't think there's any sort of planning around that. It's just a fluke. It's happened before. I remember down years in the past as well, where you're like, oh, well, you know, everything's plugging along and there are obviously developments going on in the background. It's nothing to get too worried about. It's not like, oh, watches. The wonders were. The Swisswatch industry is dead on its ass. It's like, no, this is just one of those moments where it just, everything comes together and yes, it opens the door for someone like, well, Bernard Toledano and Chan, I think, and the smaller independents that I have been wired by, like Colloquium, Ferlamarie's work, Exceptional space one fantastic. You know, these brands and Noma. Yeah, of course, of course. Actually, yeah. Did he just deliver his first watch today?
- [41:25]
B
Yeah. So was with him having a drink to celebrate yesterday evening, a dry drink, mad kombucha and yeah, Mateo from Anoma, he had delivered his first watch, which had just arrived in New York as we were toasting. So he announced Enoma last year and yeah, it was yesterday that the first 100 I think, or something got released. And yeah, the year he's about to have as well. I'm really intrigued of what's to come for him. He's shown me a couple of, of, couple of clues as to what's coming up and I think it's, it's heading in a really good direction and something I feel like we should touch on as well is this sort of shape.
- [42:08]
A
Yes.
- [42:09]
B
Sensation has happened.
- [42:11]
A
Shape sensation.
- [42:13]
B
Can we get jingles on this podcast.
- [42:15]
A
Because, yeah, they're coming.
- [42:17]
B
Perfect moment. What was that noise?
- [42:22]
A
I think it was me laughing, but it sounded a bit motley esque.
- [42:25]
B
It was very odd. Yeah, I, I, I think it's really interesting and I was actually talking with Matteo about it last night because you get the likes of, of Berneron, of, of Toledono and Chan of Anoma sort of being grouped into this category of shaped watches and people sort of questioning like, okay, well where do they go next? And I think, you know, each founder didn't set out with the logic of creating a shaped watch. There's more to it than that. You know, there's a concept there's a. An identity behind it that we are hopefully going to watch grow beyond just being an incongruous shape. And, you know, it's just happenstance that a couple of brands at the same time have decided to go in this direction that's a bit more idiosyncratic than, you know, regular square or circular case shapes that we're accustomed to seeing. And, you know, they don't plan it all in the same year, come out with something different. So I feel it speaks to an absence that we've had in the industry over the past couple of years of things being a little bit different, a bit offbeat. And with that, that appetite, you know, these, these creatives have gone forward and pitched something that has done brilliantly across all of these brands. So I'm really intrigued to see where they go with it. And yes, they are shaped watches, but I personally think they're so much more than that. It's my. My hot take.
- [43:50]
A
Yeah, it's very interesting. I mean, it often happens in media as well, doesn't it, when there's something in the air and you suddenly get like a run of, like, vampire TV series or like, clowns.
- [44:00]
B
Same with the fashion industry. Yeah. Like, you know, people group together trends. All of a sudden, you know, for fall, it's cocky and it's like, they don't all sit in a board meeting and go, let's all do the same thing. But I, I think it's interesting. Yeah, I realized I have, have.
- [44:16]
A
Sorry, go on, carry on, carry on.
- [44:18]
B
It's all right. You go. Because I want to come back to Hermes in a little bit as well.
- [44:21]
A
It's because I think en masse, we are as societies around the world and obviously exposed to different media and different happenings. We do seem to simultaneously draw similar inferences from these things and package them in similar ways when it comes to art and expression. Like, I have a great track record of guessing the color or the shade at least, like, or the color family, that the next color of the year from Pantone is going to be a year in advance.
- [44:49]
B
Can we call you Mystic Meg?
- [44:51]
A
Mystic, Something like that. It's. It. But it's bizarre, right? It's a feeling. You just get a feeling, oh, like I remember when 2019 Living Coral or whatever it was came out and I, I kind of had this feeling, like a year in advance. Okay, we're gonna see, like, lots of burgundy's mixed with hot corals. Like, coral is going to be the color for next year. And then there was a year where it was like sea foam green or something stupid.
- [45:10]
B
Go on then. What's 2025?
- [45:12]
A
I feel. Well, 2025. Has it been announced yet already? I'm not sure. I feel like what's coming on the horizon is some kind of like beige sort of color. Like a warm sort of chamomile, let's call it.
- [45:22]
B
Okay.
- [45:23]
A
That is. I feel that sort of coming maybe 26. I don't know if 25 has been announced yet, but something like that. It feels like it's. We're working our way for these kind of like serene pastels. I think as a response to like. Like a lot of.
- [45:35]
B
No, it is announced. Robert is announced. Are you ready?
- [45:38]
A
What is 25?
- [45:40]
B
It's the mocha Moose.
- [45:42]
A
Mocha Moose. That's like a sort of brown bay. Is it a beige.
- [45:46]
B
You're not far off it. You know.
- [45:49]
A
Okay, well, something in. In the sort of. So it's soft, right? I haven't seen it.
- [45:53]
B
So your party trick in life is. Is guessing the Pantone of the year ahead.
- [45:57]
A
Yeah. What people don't realize is I work for Pantone and it's actually my decision. So I. That's why I'm always referring it Moka Moose. I'm googling it to see how close it is to what I could see in my head. I think it's probably not quite as yellow. Oh, no, it's the same vibe. It's brown. It's a brown. Yeah, yeah. Yellow's close to brown. So, you know, what I'm. What I'm driving at is like, it's. There's a feeling like it. People move in the same direction at the same time for similar reasons. Because the. The influences that we're experiencing are broadly the same. And it's those slightly different individualities. Either of the interpretation of the influence or of a specific influencer is available to only a certain set of people. That creates that separation that ultimately results in the classics that remain for generations.
- [46:43]
B
Yeah.
- [46:43]
A
Let's skip ahead. We've been banging on for almost an hour already.
- [46:47]
B
Rob. I feel like we could switch it up a little bit. I feel like it would be a really fun time to kind of do a quick fire moment where I say a brand name or name of a watch or some kind of concept or theme, and you give me a quick response and we sort of take it in turns and reflect on the year like that. I feel like it'd be interesting, a.
- [47:05]
A
Response looking back towards 2024.
- [47:07]
B
Yeah. So the things I'll name will be from the Year before.
- [47:09]
A
Okay.
- [47:10]
B
Okay, you ready?
- [47:11]
A
Let's try it. Let's see how it goes.
- [47:13]
B
Okay. Formula one. You're supposed to be quick with the answer.
- [47:22]
A
We had those special editions, right. In 2024, the.
- [47:24]
B
We had the Tag Heuer return of Formula One watch. Yeah.
- [47:27]
A
That was incredible. That was brilliant. It was regional specific. Was it certain ones available around certain parts of the world?
- [47:33]
B
Nope, they were pretty much available over. I think it was launched in Miami. I think they did some in a set.
- [47:41]
A
Right.
- [47:41]
B
That were available to get all together.
- [47:43]
A
Okay.
- [47:43]
B
But they were. Yeah. Cute homage to the original. And I wish I had the original. And the annoying thing was I was looking at them in January, I didn't buy them. And then obviously looked at the price after the.
- [47:57]
A
Yeah.
- [47:57]
B
The new one came out and I was like, well, I've missed my moment there.
- [48:01]
A
Yeah, you have. I've been looking at them for years. If it makes you feel any better, I always thought. I mean, I don't like TAG Heuer very much. I like Hoya. But I have had those like little plastic F1 watches saved on my ebay watch list for years and years and years. And you could get them for a song until they release these new ones. And I love the re release. I think they're really nicely done. I think they're really cute and cool. I think they're a little bit. Bit pricier than people would like them to be. But that is the nature of the game these days. But all in all, thumbs up from me.
- [48:24]
B
Ready for the next one?
- [48:25]
A
Yeah, sure.
- [48:27]
B
Trio.
- [48:29]
A
Ah, well, this would be, I think referring to the three way collab.
- [48:33]
B
Yeah.
- [48:33]
A
Between Ming, Josh, Shapiro and Fleming in when they all.
- [48:37]
B
Yes.
- [48:38]
A
Buddy. Together to create a tantalum bracelet. Love it. Love cross brand collaboration. I think we should see more of it in 2025. What about you?
- [48:44]
B
I loved it. I think it was a genius idea and was really. It was actually there when they announced it with the three of them. And it was a really fascinating collaboration to see. It's unusual that it's a bracelet that's the collaboration and not the actual case. And then the watch. So I thought it was really interesting. And as you say, we're very used to seeing a mode of collaboration that's two parties and you add a whole other beast when you put in a third member. So I think it's, it's. It could be the future. Yeah.
- [49:17]
A
The insertion of a third member always puts the cat among the pigeons. So.
- [49:20]
B
I knew that was coming. I knew that was coming.
- [49:23]
A
Why did you say it God's sake.
- [49:26]
B
Right, I'm. I'm changing it up quickly with Gregorian calendar knows.
- [49:31]
A
Are we. Are we talking about the iwc?
- [49:33]
B
We are.
- [49:34]
A
Are we? Okay, great. Well, it was a smashing release. I was thrilled to be presented with it by our good friend Andrew Blakemore of iwc Darling. And he did have to disappear like momentarily when we're outside having a smoke because Giselle turned up. It was the most Andrew Blakemore moment of my life. He was like, he's on. He was having a smoke and then someone rang his phone. He's like, sorry guys, gotta go, Giselle's here and just disappeared.
- [50:01]
B
Don't dob him in for having a cigarette and not being at the booth.
- [50:05]
A
Oh, come. He was working his ass off. He was. He was busy as anything. He took like a two minute break to try and curry favor with you. A very world famous journalist by the way. So I think he was still working even though he was smoking at the same time.
- [50:16]
B
Yes. Ready for the next one?
- [50:19]
A
Yeah, if that's. Yeah. Okay, fine.
- [50:20]
B
Oh wait, we didn't actually say anything about the Quigorian.
- [50:22]
A
I would say Andrew's great. The watch is also great. Gphg overall winner. Deserved it. Classic Kurt Klaus legacy. Still along 40 years after the fact. Brilliant.
- [50:33]
B
One point to add from me. I'm just a bit pissed off that I'm not here to see the end of the Gregorian calendar. To see what happens to the watch then. Okay.
- [50:43]
A
There's a lot of death going on today. Scarlett, you alright?
- [50:47]
B
I think I need to try January. No, but you know, it would be interesting. It's a shame that they've created such an insane invention that we're not able to. To see it live its life to the fullest.
- [50:58]
A
Have they properly done us there? Is it a bit like Emperor's New Clothes? You know, because I could, I could create a watch. I'd be like, I'll tell you what, you know, when the Martians come, this thing's going to turn into an escape podcast. Oh, that's cool.
- [51:09]
B
Maybe we should start marketing things like that. Okay, next one, Denison.
- [51:16]
A
Oh, well, Denison is one of the great success stories of the year and a very timely rebirth of a classic case making brand from England. It is currently being brought back to life by a very talented team. The contacts I'm most acquainted with is Stefan Shayk who contacted me after Geneva watch days to talk about ways to invigorate the brand. Basically, if you've not heard the Denison, they were a famous case maker. They made Cases for Rolex back in the day. They have been brought back now as a brand, standalone brand, quartz powered, either stainless steel or gold PVD coated stainless steel cases in a sort of cushion shape case with hard stone dials retailing for around 500, 600 francs. And they are flying off the shelves. You know a nice thing about them, they've got a very nice buckle. Smart.
- [52:01]
B
They do, they do.
- [52:02]
A
They didn't overlook the buck.
- [52:03]
B
I love their mission statement, the name behind the names. I only have high praise for Dennison and I think particularly when they made the genius decision of working with Emmanuel Gate, the designer as well, who has worked on so many iconic models to name the AP Warlock Offshore. Am I right?
- [52:21]
A
Oh, that was his baby, wasn't it?
- [52:22]
B
Yeah, yeah. You can see his genius design come through from like the shape of the case, the crown, the buckle, as you say. And I love stone dolls, but unfortunately they're not in my price bracket right now. So as soon as I found out that these were 577 pounds, I don't have the Tav up in front of me right now at all, I was like, oh, my God, I want in. They're so cool. Just like fit really nicely on the wrist. And it's also nice, again, not to keep harping on about old England, but Denison being British and, you know, they're being a little tribute to that in there somehow. I think it's quite nice. So high praise for Dennison from me.
- [53:03]
A
Yep, same here. Love it.
- [53:05]
B
Cut. Cut is my next word.
- [53:09]
A
All right. I thought you were telling me to like, cut the recording.
- [53:13]
B
Scarlett's favorite watch of 2024.
- [53:16]
A
Oh, Hermes. Yes, Hermes. The cut. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, of course. Well, this was the showstopper of watches of wonders, really, wasn't it? I mean, this is what we want from all brands. And it's amazing how often Hermes is leading from the front these days. I mean, I've always been a fan of the brand's foray into watchmaking because of the huge investment they made very early on in their journey. I think way back in the day, it must have been 10 years ago now, they bought like 25% of their own manufacturer and started making stuff themselves. And the designs that they're coming out with are superb. It's just what we want to see. And you must be very proud of them.
- [53:52]
B
I. I am very proud of them. Just to add, they're killing it in terms of social media. If there's one brand, I think they're doing really well right now with their Visual language is Hermes. If you haven't seen it, go and check out their Instagram. Like the little shorts, like the videos they create, like, the use of graphics. They're on to a winner. Like, they're onto something really smart. And I'm intrigued to see how it plays out for them this year as well. But I will wax lyrical for hours. If anybody wants to talk about the Hermes car, I think it is the watch of all watches from last year. Why do I think this? Because it was plugged as a women's watch and as I recall, like, hammering down your ears last time. Rob, I was on the podcast about ladies watches and women's watches, whatever you want to call them. A lot of the time, brands remove the label ladies watches in place of unisex, and there's no effort to design a watch aimed at women. And it's. It's a little bit of a scapegoat sometimes, that title, by removing make, you know, making them genderless. And I feel like Hermes tackled that head on and went, okay, well, if you want us to make a women's watch, we're going to make a women's watch, and we're going to listen to what they want, but we're going to give you options. Because if they've learned anything, it's that there is no one women's watch in the same way that there is no one men's watch. So, you know, there's so many variations of this watch from the metals, from the bezel, from the straps. Like, I. I think it was genius, and I think it truly is an example. If someone said, what do you mean a ladies watch? It would be that because you've listened to what people want, you've provided variation, which is fundamental, and you haven't shied away from the task of creating something through fear of, A, getting it wrong, B, going down a traditional route too much, and C, the best thing was the amount of male journalists that came up to me during watches and wonders and said, oh, my God, I really want to buy the car. And I'm like, I love that. I love that it comes back round and, you know, ultimately ends up being genderless. But the intention of it was not being afraid to tackle a very difficult bracket of design. You know, ladies watches are difficult. I appreciate that. That. But I think they did it excellently. And I thought that is my TED Talk about the Hermes cut. So that's. Yeah, I love it.
- [56:12]
A
I mean, if. If you want to do a full episode on the Ms. Cut, we. I mean, I'm sure you've had plenty in your hands already. I don't know if you own one yet, but we could maybe snaffle one for review and do a full deep dive on it. Because, I mean, what you would love to snaffle, Snaffle, snaffle away. I don't know why I have, like, some image of you, like, rushing into a Hermes store on all fours. Like, the bell dings on the door and they're like, what? Thought there's nobody here and there's just this little. A little snaffler scrabbling around on the floor.
- [56:43]
B
I swore I'd be more elegant in 2025, but, alas, I'm already not.
- [56:48]
A
I think you can make an exception. Exception for the cup. So, yeah, we could maybe. We could maybe talk about that more because it is a huge topic and, I mean, you expressed very eloquently your thoughts on it and how important it is, I think, and how satisfying it is to see a brand and really do what we've. A lot of us have been imploring brands to do, but they just seem to be incapable or unwilling to actually go for it. And they did it. And yeah, the result was, I think there's a.
- [57:13]
B
Just a fear of getting it wrong or, you know, and when you have that fear of getting it wrong, you stick to tradition and you stick to what you know, because no one wants to really rock the boat sometimes. Because you don't want to be the first person and you don't want to fuck up. But up. They did not. They. They, like, I'm trying to come up with a cool line, and it's not happening. They smashed it. I love it. I want to buy one.
- [57:40]
A
Well, as JCB always said, you know, you've got to be first, unique and different. And a lot of the brands, they forget that these days, and they really hide behind their heritage and they don't put themselves out on a limb. And maybe Hermes is in that perfect sweet spot, along with brands like, like Chanel, another fashion house that is doing wonderful things in watchmaking. They can be avant garde, they can be risk takers, and it's great to see that they're taking advantage of that before they become too much part of the furniture. So long, may it continue. So actually, let's use that as a pivot point just to quickly look ahead to 2025, because we've reviewed 2024 quite extensively, and I think within that review, we've probably touched on what we want to see in 2020. 5. But do you want to summarize it it for us? What are you interested in seeing more of this year?
- [58:24]
B
I'd like to speak more abstractly for a second if you will permit me to do so.
- [58:28]
A
Rob. Yes. The right honorable lady will take the stage and put forth her manifesto.
- [58:37]
B
I would like to take this moment to give insane Praise to Andrew McCutcheon and his team at Tide and Tide for having the balls to launch an incredible physical space just off Oxford Circus in London to launch the Time and Tide Discovery Studio. For anybody that hasn't been yet, I implore you all to go to go and see some of these watches that we've mentioned from Ferlan Mari to Denison, you know, are quite difficult to get your hands on these watches and see them in the flesh and they've done an incredible job and it's a beautiful space and I think it's a really great way of proving that watches do matter. People are still buying watches. We care about seeing the time on our wrists and having a space to meet like minded individuals as well. So for 2025 I'm really intrigued to see where they go with it to see the, the sense of community rise in London and you know, beyond that in the UK because of spaces like this. And I think it will only do wonders for the watch industry. So I'm really excited for them to see where it goes.
- [59:38]
A
I think that's an excellent point and well deserved praise for Andrew and the team. The team is exceptional there. You need to go along and talk to the guys. They are brilliant. I was down there two days ago doing a training session because Archonaut's got a three month guest appearance in in the Space. Hopefully it will continue if we're able to hit the ground running. And I was talking to AMA and Barney and James and Tim and Mitch and Scott and the whole team and they're all just mad watch obsessives and that really helps, you know, you feel at home when you go into a place like that and it is beautifully be appointed.
- [60:13]
B
The service is so great, smashing and.
- [60:16]
A
They'Ve got great brands, you know and this will, this actually segues perfectly into what I want to see more in 2025. Just succinctly of course we love the shaped watches, we love the creativity and we love people pushing the boundaries of design. But what I really, really love is when a brand is conscious of the consumer's desire to have more tangible value added to a product without the price moving around too much. And for me one brand did that well at Watches and Wonders and that was Alpina, strangely enough. They made some tangible upgrades to their Seastron collection which really elevated it as a product and made it a real competitor in the dive watch space without it becoming a thousand or €1500 more expensive. And to be honest, the brands in Time and Tide right now are perfect examples of brands trying to do that. You've got brands like Denison, you've got brands like Studio Underdog, Micro Mill Specific.
- [61:06]
B
I think Sarah is really going to have a great year. Like I think towards the tail end of last year I was only hearing more and more about them. There's a couple of other brands that and, and I guess more trend kind of driven things I would like to see this year in a nutshell. I want a bit more Law and Disorder. I want to see dials get a bit crazier which is why people like Arknor I think are the perfect fit and a due, you know, an epic moment in the spotlight for things just being a little bit more funky, a little bit incongruous and this sort of feeling of like make it make sense, like it works but it shouldn't work. I want to see people be a bit more provocative and I hate to, to use this hackneyed phrase, but I've now forgotten the phrase I was about to say break the mold. Break the mold. That's it. And I think we'll always look to Cartier to do that because they do a brilliant job at it in my humble opinion, as the humble rambler. But again, I think this is going to be a mammoth year for the independence. Like I'm saddened at the same time because where we are in the current state of the industry is, is not wonderful. And it's my first time in, in my three years of being in the industry. You know, I joined in a post covert climate where all people wanted to do were buy watches and it was amazing. And this is my first time experiencing people spend their money on holidays and things instead. So I think, you know, we have to buy our time and it's an unfortunate dip and it's really saddening to, to see some incredible brands go through hardship. But I think through this I hope that we feel a bit more united and collaborative. But I don't know. But then maybe people want to go down a minimal route this year because of that, because times are tougher. What do you think?
- [63:00]
A
I think that there's space for both of those things and I think it comes down to like the overall package and what Is offered, you know, Denison, to be fair, like, it's not ostentatious, really. It's a relatively minimalist watch in terms of its styling. It has that lovely artfulness of the dialogue which elevates it. But at the price point, you know, that's. That's about as good as you can get. And then you've got crazier stuff coming out, you know, like the studio underdog stuff like Arkanal. Thanks for mentioning it. And they are like, they are primed for big times ahead. Absolutely. Because people do want to have a bit more individuality on their wrist.
- [63:38]
B
Yeah.
- [63:38]
A
I think the idea that, like, a Rolex is a safe investment. And although it's still a pretty solid one, it's going. It's dying a little bit. People are seeing that, like, you know, the prices they paid over list, thinking that they had a commodity never depreciate, are ridiculous and inflated and unrealistic. And so people are going to, I think, think very, very long and very hard about what they do buy. And they're going to buy it for themselves rather than for their bank accounts, I would hope.
- [64:04]
B
Yeah.
- [64:04]
A
And that's only a good thing for us in the industry.
- [64:06]
B
I've got two questions for you. And then throw them back at me. One watch that you think is gonna rise and soar into a pandemonium of success this year, and one watch you would like to buy this year. So we obviously can't speak to 20, 25 releases with that one, but one that you're like, yeah, I need to get that.
- [64:31]
A
Okay, well, that's an easy one for me to answer first. And I'll kick that back to you before I answer the other one because that's a bit more difficult and speculative. I need Toledano and Chan in my life. And I loved the piece. Unique meteorite ostrich strap.
- [64:46]
B
Time for art.
- [64:47]
A
That was stunning. And if they were to produce that in any kind of series, I'd get something like that. But if not, then I also. I don't know if their next model's been announced yet, but I've seen what's coming.
- [65:01]
B
It has. We have. We have the news of already of a 2025 Toledano and trans.
- [65:05]
A
Which one is it? The mother of pearl.
- [65:07]
B
The mother of pearl? Yeah.
- [65:09]
A
Okay. There's more. So I'm not buying the mother of pearl, but one of the other two that I've seen. Definitely I'll get something. I love the mother of pearl. I think that the crystal and the dial, the way they interact with each other is absolutely glorious. And props to them for being able to bring a brutalist exterior and marry it with something so elegant and refined within. What about you? What would you like to buy?
- [65:30]
B
People are probably going to go, oh, really? At this one. But to give a little bit of context, I still haven't really bought my first big girl watch. It's something that, you know, it takes a long time to work out what you want, and I want to make the right decision for how I feel, not just in this moment in time, but something I feel like I'd be able to wear for five to 10 years, predominantly because, as well, I came from the fashion industry before I joined the watch industry. It's important for me to have a watch that marries these two worlds together and now speaks to both sides of, you know, my personality. So I'm gonna get you to guess which fashion house it would be first.
- [66:11]
A
Well, I don't know whether you're just leading me down the garden buffet, but.
- [66:15]
B
You'Ve already mentioned them earlier about a great job. It absolutely is. And it's gonna be.
- [66:23]
A
Well, I. The easy answer is the J12.
- [66:28]
B
It is. As much as I would love to walk around the airport with their premier sound watch slash headphones in my ears, slash necklace, I don't. We didn't even talk about that. That was a mental creation. It has to be the J12. I think it is a work of art. I love everything about it, and I love the iterations that come out each year for watches and wonders. So I'm hoping that by the end of 2025, I could be, in some capacity, the owner of Chanel J12.
- [67:02]
A
Well, I'd certainly support that. I've had so many J12s in my shopping cart on watch of Switzerland, where you can get 0% finance over several years on several of the models. So actually, bad way of picking one up. Yeah. I. I love the Mademoiselle J12 with Coco on the dial. I love the animation.
- [67:17]
B
I just love the ones where the actual. The hands are scissors.
- [67:20]
A
Oh, actually, you know what? I don't think I've seen that one.
- [67:23]
B
Oh, God. It's unreal. It's unreal. And it's like a needle and scissors instead of, like, in place of the hands. They are the hands. Yeah. Beautiful.
- [67:31]
A
Yeah. That speaks to me as well. I love that. That's brilliant. To your more difficult question, which watch is going to blow up? I don't know if this is just a bit of a cheat answer.
- [67:41]
B
Yeah.
- [67:42]
A
But I think it's Okay. I suppose Bernard's already released two watches because you've got the two sizes of the Mirage, but the third release I think is gonna go through the roof.
- [67:53]
B
Blow minds.
- [67:55]
A
Blow minds, Yeah, I think so. There's a lot of ones that you could say, but I, I think that that's, it's. Maybe it's just too basic of me, but, you know, it's a hard one to predict. You never know what's going to catch fire and. But to me, that brand is here for the long haul.
- [68:09]
B
Interesting.
- [68:10]
A
What about you?
- [68:10]
B
I am going to say the name in the most anglica sized way I possibly can. Vanguard.
- [68:19]
A
Vanguard. Oh, wow. Okay. So the. Have you seen something that's coming that we haven't seen?
- [68:24]
B
I. Not even. I just have got to know the brand a little bit more over the past six months and have really spent time with the two models that they've brought out so far. So they have the orb and the black hole and it was my first time actually seeing them. In Milan Watch Week, which we also didn't mention was a new watch fair that came out this year thanks to Italian watch Spotter. Really great moment for bringing younger audiences and new collectors to the world of watches. But yeah, I got to see the watches there and meet the team and I think they're really onto a winner, not just in terms of the product, but in terms of their mindset as well. They're very aware that they have great foundations. They're a team of four founders and two of those are people. Two of those are incredible watchmakers that were trained with aprp, like, you know, the playground of genius. And then you have an incredible creative director who's worked with multiple watch brands. And then you have a president that brings this unique perspective outside of the watch industry and is very much plugging it towards creative crowds outside watches to people that really want a luxury object that isn't the name that everybody knows. And I think their way of telling time as well is really interesting. It sort of reminds me of like a puzzle or a game to find out the time of their watches, which I like. I like that it's not instantaneous when you look at your wrist and I think they're really going to start making some noise. I think they're, they're investing in the audience and I don't think there are many brands I can speak to that truly do that, that know their consumer inside out and are so set on sharing this creative world with other creative disciplines. And you know, I think we forget that A lot of the time that there are so there's so much harmonization between all these little different pockets of creativity. And I think we have to watch them next year and I think they're gonna have a really good year.
- [70:34]
A
Well, what a positive and heartening note upon which to end your first show as an official host of the Real Time Show. How was it for you?
- [70:43]
B
Fab. No, it was good, it was good. But maybe don't ask me at 5pm on a Friday next time because I'll be a lot more eloquent and you'll hear less clicking of me looking at tabs in the background thinking, how much is this watch? Can I buy it? I am currently now on Watches of Switzerland looking at the 0.9% for the Chanel J12. But no, it was grand old time, Rob. Thank you for having me and I look forward to my humble ramblings for the coming year.
- [71:16]
A
I can't wait. Yeah, that's gonna be something to look forward to for sure. If any of our listeners have questions for Scarlett or any of the rest of the team, then please do get in touch with us. You can do so via the usual channels on Instagram. Now, to find Scarlett, you can find her at Scarl in the shire. That's S c a r l I n T H e S h I r e. You can find me there at R o B n u d d S alon is so much quicker. B e n J o S e P H. Yeah, I have my parents to thank for that one. And David at D a v a u c H e r. You can contact either me, Alon or David via email by just adding at therealtime show after our first names. And of course you can contact us all via the contact form on the official website www.therealtime.show. we'll be back soon with more top quality watch content.
- [72:10]
B
Will we? Will we though?
- [72:13]
A
Oh, God, stop cracking me up. It. I'm just going to close off. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking. Smashed it.
- [72:23]
B
Bye.