Podcast Summary: The Realignment – Episode 558 | Derek Thompson & Rep. Jake Auchincloss: WelcomeFest 2025 - Can the Abundance Agenda Provide the Center's Missing Vision?

Episode Date: June 12, 2025
Host: Marshall Kosloff
Guests: Derek Thompson (The Atlantic, Co-author of “Abundance”), Rep. Jake Auchincloss (D-MA)

Overview

This episode, recorded live at WelcomeFest 2025 (the main annual gathering for moderate Democrats), features an in-depth conversation with Derek Thompson and Rep. Jake Auchincloss. The focus is on the “Abundance Agenda”—a policy vision built around proactive growth, innovation, and removing bottlenecks to progress. The discussion centers on whether this vision can offer American centrists an affirmative, future-facing story—one that contrasts the more emotionally resonant narratives of the populist left and right.

Key Themes and Discussion Points

1. Defining the “Abundance Agenda” and Its Rationale

• Derek Thompson opens by defining abundance as "to have the future we want, we need to build and invent more of what we need" (02:17). Abundance is not just about building more of what we know—like housing and energy—but inventing entirely new solutions, such as disease cures.
• Thompson’s Candidness: He clarifies that while the book is viewed as optimistic, writing it felt more like “relentless diagnosis” of what is broken in America’s policy and regulatory landscape, especially in liberal cities (03:28).

  "It felt like a patient walking into a doctor's office. The doctor is like, well, your Achilles torn and also your ACL is broken. And also there's like a machete sticking [out of your back]." – Derek Thompson (03:27)

• Optimism Through Specificity: Thompson argues people’s sense that “shit is broken” is matched by optimism when offered specific diagnoses and fixes for frustrating problems (04:00):

  "There’s a kind of optimism that's inherent to specificity... When you can be specific for someone who feels this spectral sense of anxiety, that specificity registers as optimism."

2. The Importance of a Positive, Forward-Facing Vision

• Auchincloss notes that Americans "know what Democrats are against," but not what they're for (05:31), emphasizing a need for a proactive, positive message:

  “If we are going to earn Americans’ trust to govern... we have to explain what we are for. And what Derek and Ezra have done is they've written an economics textbook for the Democratic Party.”

• He highlights bottleneck analysis as a central insight of the book—sometimes the state, sometimes big business, impedes market function (05:55):

  "Good economics tells you you're agnostic as to what is an impairment... you just go unplug that bottleneck."

3. Polls, Messaging, and the Limits of Storytelling

• Bottleneck vs. Corporate Power Messaging: Auchincloss and Thompson discuss a recent poll by Demand Progress that found blame-the-corporation stories more compelling than "bottleneck" language (07:20):

  “It's like testing an economics textbook against a romance novel and telling people, what do you like to read better?” – Jake Auchincloss (07:20)

• Auchincloss on Campaign vs. Governance:

  "You campaign in poetry and you govern in prose." (07:50) He stresses that simplicity sells on campaigns, but the work happens with details and complexity.

• Both guests argue that policy and politics cannot be neatly separated—good policy produces better outcomes, which in turn make good politics (11:01):

  "While I... respect and I'm grateful for everybody who comes to our defense, I don't actually agree that abundance is about policy, not politics. I don't like drawing this really sharp line between policy and politics." – Derek Thompson (11:01)

4. Beyond Housing: The Broader Abundance Agenda

• Auchincloss moves beyond housing to other targets:
  • Curing Alzheimer’s: Positioning a moonshot goal like curing Alzheimer's by 2050 as a rallying point, with research funding ramped up to post-WWII levels (13:50)
  • Education Reform: Addressing post-pandemic learning loss, expanding tutoring, and revitalizing trade schools (15:20):

    "Democrats made a catastrophic mistake by closing the schools in 2020... and you know what? Candidly we don't have a plan and we owe a plan to the American people because it was Democrats that did it."

• Operation Warp Speed as a Model: Thompson lauds it as possibly “the most successful medical innovation policy in American history on a bang for buck basis” (16:16), lamenting both parties' lack of credit for its success and urging a repeat of this approach in other domains.

5. The Struggle for a Center/Center-Left Narrative

• The Narrative Deficit: Host Marshall Kosloff presses both guests on the lack of a compelling center/center-left story compared to populist left and right (19:06).
• Auchincloss’s Answer: Suggests a theme of "taking back control" as a way to tap into voters’ anxieties about cost of living, governance, and agency (19:57):

  “One thesis that I would have is it’s about taking back control... voters feel like I don’t have control anymore.”

• Thompson’s Counterpoint: Argues Americans need solutions, not stories:

  "Stories are for children. Americans need a plan. Americans need solutions... You need a place to live. You need an electricity bill you can afford." (21:58) He then admits that rejecting “stories” is itself a form of storytelling, humorously highlighting the paradox.

6. The Left, Technology, and "Atoms vs. Bits"

• Repairing the Relationship with Tech: Closing thoughts explore how Democrats might lean into the tech sector to achieve abundance goals, but with caution (23:48).
• Auchincloss’s Perspective: Welcomes technological advances “in the world of atoms” (infrastructure, energy, manufacturing), but is “very hostile” to the culture of technology “in the world of bits” (social media, AI friends for children) (24:14):

  "I am very receptive and supportive of tech in the world of atoms... I am very hostile to the direction of technology in the world of bits..." – Jake Auchincloss (24:14)

• Memorable Closing Slogan:

  "Adams over bits." – Derek Thompson (24:45) "Amen to that." – Jake Auchincloss (24:46)

Notable Quotes and Moments (with Timestamps)

• On abundance as specificity:

  "There’s a kind of optimism that's inherent to specificity... When you can be specific for someone who feels this spectral sense of anxiety, that specificity registers as optimism.” – Derek Thompson (04:00)

• On Democrats needing a positive vision:

  “Americans know what Democrats are against. They don't know what we're for.” – Jake Auchincloss (05:31)

• On campaign language and policy detail:

  "You campaign in poetry and you govern in prose." – Jake Auchincloss (07:50)

• On Operation Warp Speed:

  "It's arguably... the most successful medical innovation policy in American history on a bang for buck basis... and nobody cares, especially in the party responsible for the accomplishment." – Derek Thompson (16:16)

• On narrative vs. solutions:

  "Stories are for children. Americans need a plan. Americans need solutions... I'm not a storyteller... you have problems and I recognize them and I wrote a book about it and I think I have solutions." – Derek Thompson (21:58)

• On technology: bits vs. atoms:

  "I am very receptive and supportive of tech in the world of atoms... I am very hostile to the direction of technology in the world of bits..." – Jake Auchincloss (24:14)
  "Adams over bits." – Derek Thompson (24:45)

Important Segments (Timestamps)

• 02:17 – Defining “Abundance” and why optimism matters
• 05:31 – Democrats’ need for positive, affirmative vision
• 07:20 – Polls: Corporate power vs. bottlenecks as messaging
• 11:01 – The inseparability of good ideas, outcomes, and politics
• 13:50 – Expanding abundance to Alzheimer’s, education reform
• 16:16 – Operation Warp Speed: Policy success and lack of celebration
• 19:06 – The center’s narrative deficit versus populist storytelling
• 21:58 – Why “stories are for children”—a case for solutions over narratives
• 24:14 – “Atoms over bits”—embracing physical tech, wary of digital tech

Conclusion

This episode of The Realignment offers a nuanced and self-reflective examination of the Abundance Agenda as both a governing framework and a possible organizing vision for America’s political center. Through candid, sometimes humorous dialogue, Derek Thompson and Rep. Jake Auchincloss grapple with how to balance stories and solutions, how to move past defensive centrism, and how to inspire with plans that address material needs and future breakthroughs. The conversation underscores the need for centrists to articulate what they are for, not just what they are against, and suggests the next step is marrying clear, concrete solutions with a positive vision that Americans can trust.