Podcast Summary: The Realignment – Episode 563
Guest: Sam Tanenhaus
Host: Marshall Kosloff
Topic: William F. Buckley Jr. and the Battle for Political Ideas
Date: July 29, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, Marshall Kosloff hosts author and journalist Sam Tanenhaus to discuss Tanenhaus’s new biography of William F. Buckley Jr., "The Life and Revolution That Changed America". The conversation explores Buckley’s legacy as the intellectual architect of modern American conservatism and delves into the enduring power of political ideas. Beyond biography, the discussion traces the evolution of ideological discourse from the mid-20th century through today’s rapidly shifting political terrain, comparing the historical conservative movement with contemporary political realignments, the rise of populism, and the state of Democratic ideology.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The Enduring Influence of William F. Buckley Jr.
[03:57–10:14]
- Buckley's Role: Introduced as the most famous American public intellectual and "architect of modern conservatism."
- Buckley’s Principles: Advocated small government, individualism (what we might now call libertarianism), and constitutionalism.
- Background: Came from immense privilege (47-acre Connecticut estate, large family), but was sensitive to the broader American context (Great Depression, FDR’s New Deal).
- Movement Building: Founded National Review in 1955 and became central to forming a cohesive conservative movement that shaped leaders from Goldwater to Reagan.
- Media Empire: Pioneered conservative syndicated columns (appearing in hundreds of newspapers), books, and influential television (Firing Line).
Quote:
"His career was about reshaping all of that…He became the impresario of a conservative media empire."
— Sam Tanenhaus [07:15]
2. Buckley’s 1965 New York Mayoral Campaign & Populist Appeal
[10:14–15:33]
- Buckley as a Populist: Surprising resonance with “white ethnic” (working- and middle-class immigrant communities) voters, despite his aristocratic background.
- Innovation: Brought elite intellectualism and sharp wit to populist politics. Turned televised debates into entertaining exchanges with substance, connecting with voters and becoming a model for future populists.
- Comparison to Today: Parallels drawn between Buckley’s campaign and Donald Trump’s populist approach.
Quote:
"There’s a columnist, Pete Hamill…he says for the first time, you were seeing someone with like a top-rate intellect running for public office."
— Sam Tanenhaus [15:34]
Memorable Moment:
Reporter: "What would happen if you actually win [the mayoral campaign]? What would you do?"
Buckley: "Demand a recount."
— [15:32]
3. The Power of Ideas vs. Partisanship
[21:52–24:42]
- Distinction Between Ideology and Party: Exploration of how Buckley's model kept conservatism as an idea, not just a party label—a marked contrast with today’s center-left, where ideology often blurs with party identity.
- Lessons for Democrats: The current center-left’s challenges compared to the vibrant, idea-filled conservative movement Buckley led, suggesting the need for a "party of ideas" rather than a purely electoral coalition.
Quote:
"Conservatism, libertarianism, liberalism, progressivism…are a body and set of ideas that are separate from the Democratic or Republican parties."
— Marshall Kosloff [21:52]
4. The Process and Importance of Ideological Evolution
[24:42–31:46]
- Fusionism & Coalition Building: How National Review fused anti-communism with libertarianism and moral values, forging broad, sometimes contradictory coalitions.
- Importance of Rhetoric: Persuasion and rhetoric (not just new ideas) seen as key to political relevance. Rhetoric precedes action—how you talk about issues is as vital as what you propose.
- Comparison to Democrats: Critique of the Democratic Party’s defensive posture—more focused on polling and party management than developing or sustaining ideological projects.
Quote:
"Rhetoric precedes action. You have to find the way to talk about it. Then you start to make things happen…"
— Sam Tanenhaus [27:01]
5. Debates, Open Questions, and the Decline of Cross-Ideological Dialogue
[31:46–39:23]
- Big Tent Openness: Buckley fostered a culture of internal debate—even with those he disagreed with, via National Review's “open question” approach.
- Contrast with Today: Modern debate culture (e.g., social media, streaming debates) focuses on winning points, not genuine exchange or evolution of ideas.
- Reflection on Political Courage: Failure of politicians to form or share real worldviews, instead mimicking perceived “correct” stances, leading to superficial or defensive shifts (e.g., Kamala Harris on immigration).
Quote:
"The idea that you’re going to work through things is seen as a weakness…Failure to commit. Right."
— Sam Tanenhaus [33:41]
6. Intellectual Ecosystems: Right vs. Left
[37:35–39:23]
- Infrastructure for Ideas: The conservative movement fostered spaces (think tanks, internships, book clubs, media) for young intellectuals to refine and debate ideas.
- Current Weakness: Such ecosystems are less prevalent or robust on the center/center-left, contributing to a strategic and imaginative deficit at precisely the moment when they are most needed.
Quote:
"That culture does not exist on the center to left…the center to the left to the same degree. And it’s a serious weakness during a period where there are open questions."
— Marshall Kosloff [37:37]
7. Buckley's Personal Approach and Potential for Change
[39:23–50:56]
- Openness and Intellectual Generosity: Tanenhaus reflects on Buckley's genuine openness to disagreement, personal warmth, and capacity for change—even as Buckley’s movement defended Jim Crow, he personally evolved and was always engaged and respectful.
- Contrast with Today: Buckley’s willingness to change, listen, and mentor stands in stark contrast to today’s zero-sum political climate and suspicion of intellectual humility on both sides.
Quote:
"He was much bigger than other people. There was no pettiness in him…It’s the bigness."
— Sam Tanenhaus [47:05]
8. Conclusion: Why the Lessons Matter Now
[50:56–52:19]
- Current Center-Left Malaise: Defensive, polling-driven politics rooted in the legacies of Clinton-era triangulation and Trump-era anxieties have left the Democratic center bereft of energy and imagination.
- Call for Political Imagination: The discussion closes with a call to revisit the Buckley model of big, open debate, genuine worldview formation, and visionary leadership—qualities desperately needed across the spectrum.
Quote:
"That’s just the fundamental problem facing the Democratic center…bereft of ideas and very bereft of energy."
— Marshall Kosloff [52:07]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- "It never does a writer good to be early…your friends may say, well, you were prescient, but it doesn’t do you any good as a writer because the story's not there yet."
— Sam Tanenhaus [02:16] - "Demand a recount." (on what he’d do if he won the mayoral race)
— William F. Buckley (via Tanenhaus) [15:32] - "He really believed and part of it came out of his faith. We have not talked about his Catholicism. The Catholicism was so important to him. The philanthropy and good works came out of that."
— Sam Tanenhaus [48:29] - "When the facts prove me wrong and turn out to be different, I changed my mind. What do you do?" (attributing John Maynard Keynes)
— Sam Tanenhaus [38:18]
Important Segments with Timestamps
- [03:57] – Introduction to Buckley’s life, background, and the formation of National Review
- [10:14] – Buckley's 1965 mayoral run and lasting impact on populist politics
- [21:52] – Ideological independence and why ideas must transcend party
- [27:01] – Why rhetoric and presentation matter as much as content
- [31:46] – The ‘big tent’ approach, the value of debate and intellectual humility
- [37:35] – The right’s organizational depth for cultivating ideas versus the left’s shortcomings
- [39:23] – Buckley’s personal relationships and openness even amid ideological battles
- [50:56] – Modern center-left defensiveness and concluding reflections on the need for vision
Final Thoughts
This rich conversation renders Buckley not only as a historical figure, but as an ongoing model for how political ideas can be developed, debated, and brought to the public square. Tanenhaus and Kosloff argue that across the political spectrum, the revival of serious, open, and imaginative debate—untethered from party and polling—is urgently needed.
Listen if you’re interested in:
- The origins and stewardship of modern American conservatism
- The relationship between ideas and political power
- How rhetorical skill and debate shaped American public life
- Lessons for rebuilding intellectual life across the political spectrum
Note: For details on Buckley’s complex evolution on race, movement-building stories, and parallels to today’s political environment, listen to the full episode (especially [10:14–52:24]).