Podcast Summary: The Realignment – Ep. 566 | Osita Nwanevu: The Case for a New American Founding: Rethinking Democracy After 2024

Podcast: The Realignment
Host: Marshall Kosloff
Guest: Osita Nwanevu (Guardian, The New Republic)
Date: August 12, 2025

Overview

In this timely and expansive discussion, host Marshall Kosloff sits down with journalist and author Osita Nwanevu to explore his provocative new book, Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding. The conversation centers on America’s faltering faith in democracy following the upheavals of 2024, the limits of political messaging, the need for a broader, structural reimagining of governance, and parallels with historical political “foundings.” Nwanevu argues for a vision of democracy rich in agency and meaning, challenging both left and center to move beyond technocratic fixes toward ambitious rethinking. The episode covers shifting voter behavior, the crisis of political imagination, movement-building, and the prospects for cross-ideological renewal.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Thinness of “Democracy” as Political Messaging

• Critique of Post-2016 Political Messaging:
  Nwanevu highlights the exhaustion with how “defending democracy” became an abstract, uninspiring rallying cry, especially for Democrats. Despite warnings about Trump’s authoritarianism, voters prioritized material interests and, in 2024, backed Trump for economic reasons (02:07–04:10).
  • Quote:
    “If it’s just an abstraction, this thing that your civics teacher told you was important, you know, in grade school, the Democrats are yelling you about, and it’s that or, you know, paying your rent, paying your groceries—people choose the latter.” – Osita Nwanevu (03:04)
• Democracy as a Fair-Weather Principle:
  Democrats and liberals, in Nwanevu’s view, are at risk of treating democracy as conditional—dangerous because it undermines lasting commitments and invites suspicion of opportunism.
  • Quote:
    “If it’s this kind of thin tissue over which we put over our ambitions…and when we are disappointed or we lose, it kind of goes out the window, that’s not good.” (06:16)

2. Rethinking Who Participates in Democracy

• Surprising Voter Trends in 2024:
  According to new polling, lower-information and marginal voters (traditionally expected to favor Democrats) swung toward Trump, undermining the “just turn out the vote” strategies. This shift forced introspection about whether liberals truly support broad participation if it doesn’t guarantee left-leaning outcomes (07:10–10:49).
• The Flaws of Civic Tests and Elitism:
  Both host and guest deride calls for voter literacy or civics tests, calling for trust in the political agency of all citizens, regardless of formal knowledge.
  • Quote:
    “You can be a voter that does not know a lot of specific information…Everyone has access to thoughts and beliefs about the kind of society they’d like to live in…” – Osita Nwanevu (12:37–13:53)

3. “New Founding” as a Structuring Vision

• Historical Paradigm:
  Nwanevu frames his project in continuity with America’s previous “foundings”—the original Constitution, post-Civil War Reconstruction—and argues that the dysfunctions of the current era require a similarly foundational response (15:42).
• Democracy as a Cohesive Left Vision:
  The left lacks a clear, movement-defining framework like conservatism in the ‘50s and ‘60s. Nwanevu suggests democracy, conceived as expanding human agency and collective self-rule, could fill this void, uniting disparate progressive causes under a single banner (15:42–20:00).
  • Quote:
    “I think democracy is the thing. I think that believing in democratic agency, expanding democratic agency, and building democratic agency for the American people is…kind of the project.” (18:13)
• Comparison to the Right’s Messaging:
  Trump’s “Make America Great Again” is cited as an accessible, galvanizing slogan; the left has failed to produce an equivalent (20:00–23:36).

4. Why the Left Lacks a “MAGA”

• Fragmentation and Historical Drift:
  Nwanevu attributes the left’s big-tent incoherence in part to the fracturing of New Deal economic populism into diverse identity and justice causes, and to a lack of philosophical, as opposed to purely historical, analysis (23:36–27:10).
  • Quote:
    “We have a lot of historians…not very many philosophers, who are telling us, here’s what we actually believe as a matter of principle…We’re very, very good…at asking ourselves, well, is this or is this not what the founders wanted? Very, very bad…in asking ourselves, what kind of America do we want as a matter of principle?” (26:13)

5. Abundance, Skepticism of Power, and Fusionist Strategies

• Discussing “Abundance” and Its Limits:
  Both speakers parse the idea of “abundance” and how it can only be one plank in a larger political vision. Nwanevu notes the need for leftists to embrace skepticism of elite power and oligarchy, while not getting bogged down in technocratic or niche policy debates (27:10–31:10).
  • Quote:
    “You need to rope whatever abundance is into a kind of larger theme, larger narrative about where the country ought to go.” (30:03)
• Movement over Party:
  Suggests Democrats must build something akin to the conservative movement—one that sees the party as a vessel for a larger, society-transforming project (29:40–34:25).

6. U.S. Crises Without Lasting Change—Why?

• Repeated Crises, Missed Refoundings:
  Kosloff and Nwanevu question why, after shocks like the Great Recession and Covid-19, America fails to seize “refounding” moments. Nwanevu suggests such moments require not just shocks but pre-existing, coherent movements and ideas ready to be adopted (34:25–38:57).
  • Quote:
    “Things do not naturally change and change in your direction because an old system is dying or because there’s a shock…If there aren’t things kind of lying around as political visions…you’re not going to go anywhere.” (37:01)

7. The “Great Man” Theory, Leadership, and Talent Deficit

• Historical Talent and Today’s Leadership:
  Citing the “talent deficit” in contemporary politics, both acknowledge that periods of political refounding typically coincide with capable, visionary leaders—from the Founders to Lincoln and Reagan (38:57–45:31).
  • Quote:
    “It was Gore Vidal who said…the Constitution was written by…55 of the smartest men in the country and we haven’t heard from them since…” (40:43)
• Movement vs. Person:
  The left, in particular, has over-invested in presidential saviors (e.g., Sanders) rather than building mass, programmatic support that can outlast individual campaigns (44:13).

8. Populism, Polls, and the Perils of Complacency

• Polls vs. Political Reality:
  Economic populism may poll well, but voters’ actual preferences are shaped by credibility, aesthetics, and belief in a movement's ability to govern. The left has not yet demonstrated governing or persuasive prowess at the scale necessary; mere popularity of policy is insufficient (45:31–51:27).
  • Quote:
    “People might agree with these ideas…cannot imagine the left actually governing, cannot imagine us actually winning, cannot actually imagine us implementing the things that we’re talking about.” (47:51)

9. The Case for Refounding: Structural Reforms and Who Gains?

• Key Proposals (51:27):
  • End the Senate filibuster
  • Expand the House of Representatives
  • Enact a national popular vote
  • Impose term limits for Supreme Court justices
• A Broader Appeal:
  Nwanevu argues these reforms, while often aligned with left interests, should also appeal to centrists alarmed by institutional failures and even to a right confident it can compete in a genuinely democratic system (52:09–53:38).
• Risks for Everyone:
  Both acknowledge that any more democratic system will bring victories and losses for all sides: “Everybody has something to lose here. But I think we all as a country gain…” (55:36)

10. Closing Reflections: Sacrifice, Maturity, and the Road Ahead

• Realism Over Nostalgia:
  Both Kosloff and Nwanevu urge centrists (and all others) not to expect restoration of lost status quos without change or sacrifice.
  • Quote:
    “If I see a centrist or a traditional never Trump conservative who is…not willing to say I’m going to have to accept this uncomfortable truth about where our country’s going, I take them far less seriously.” – Marshall Kosloff (54:10)
• Democracy Demands Maturity:
  Committing to a more open and responsive democracy means accepting the risk of loss, but that’s the work—and the reward—of real politics.
  • Quote:
    “To be committed to democracy or more democratic system is to be committed to the possibility—that probability, really—that you’re going to lose a lot…” – Osita Nwanevu (55:38–56:06)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “People voted on the basis of what they felt the material interests were...it reveals the kind of thinness of the Democratic message.” – Osita Nwanevu (03:00)
• “You can be a voter that does not know a lot of specific information…politics is about what kind of society we want to live in…” – Osita Nwanevu (12:37)
• “I think democracy is the thing...and building democratic agency...is kind of the project.” – Osita Nwanevu (18:13)
• “We have a lot of historians…not very many philosophers, who are telling us, here’s what we actually believe as a matter of principle…” – Osita Nwanevu (26:13)
• “You need to rope whatever abundance is into a kind of larger theme, larger narrative…” – Osita Nwanevu (30:03)
• “Things do not naturally change...because an old system is dying...If there aren’t things kind of lying around as political visions…you’re not going to go anywhere.” – Osita Nwanevu (37:01)
• “Committing to a more democratic system is to be committed to the probability that you’re going to lose a lot…” – Osita Nwanevu (55:38)

Suggested Listening Guide / Timestamps

• Introduction and thesis on democracy’s “thinness” — 00:00–07:10
• Debate on civic tests, voter knowledge, and broad inclusion — 07:10–13:54
• Historical foundations, structural change, and movement-building — 13:54–20:00
• Vision deficit on the left vs. “MAGA” on the right — 20:00–27:10
• Fusionist projects: abundance, skepticism of power, and movement logic — 27:10–34:25
• Why crises don’t yield fundamental change — 34:25–38:57
• Leadership, movement-building, and the “talent deficit” — 38:57–45:31
• Populism, the gap between polls and votes, and overcoming complacency — 45:31–51:27
• Structural reforms and appeals to all sides — 51:27–55:36
• Sacrifice, maturity, and the real work of politics — 55:36–59:38

Tone:
Engaged, thoughtful, direct; the conversation is grounded, occasionally humorous, and deeply reflective about the realities and future of American democracy.

For listeners who haven’t tuned in:
This episode is an urgent call to think bigger about American democracy and to reimagine not just policies, but the very structures and visions that shape the nation. Osita Nwanevu makes a compelling case for a wholly new American founding, arguing for movement-building, structural reform, and a more inspiring, unifying left vision—one that marries realism with real ambition.