In a recent interview with California Gov. Gavin Newsom, a likely contender for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2028, veteran news anchor Katie Couric asked him whether he "had a Zoolander" problem, fretting that being "so ridiculously good looking" might make it hard for him to be taken seriously.

That exchange set off today's guest, podcaster Adam Carolla, who saw in it a microcosm of much of what's wrong with contemporary media and politics. Couric's fawning betrays a clear political bias, he said, and it overlooks Newsom's longstanding incompetence as a governor who has overseen a decline in people and businesses since taking office in 2019.

In a wide-ranging conversation with Nick Gillespie, the former construction worker and Comedy Central host lays into how legacy media has traded in its watchdog role for access and skepticism toward power for affirmation. Carolla talks about how the Golden State's regulatory dysfunction makes everything more expensive and time-consuming, squeezes tax-paying and law-abiding residents, and has created a place that puts "safetyism" and the status quo at the center of every policy decision.

They also discuss the rise of independent journalism and podcasting—a field Carolla helped pioneer in the late aughts—and why, compared with President Joe Biden in 2024, President Donald Trump successfully appealed to people who wanted to build homes, businesses, and a future in the United States.

0:00—Softball interviews

4:41—Legacy media monocultures

9:53—Why Carolla started his own podcast network

11:35—Why are people leaving California?

16:24—Overregulation in California

25:33—The importance of meritocracy

28:39—How Carolla developed his work ethic

38:15—Why Carolla likes Trump

41:40—California high-speed rail

44:09—Is Carolla optimistic about the future?

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated, AI-edited transcript. Check all quotes against the audio for accuracy.

Nick Gillespie: Adam Carolla, thanks for talking to Reason.

Adam Carolla: My pleasure, Nick.

Let's start this interview talking about Katie Couric. Recently, you went to town on her. She was interviewing Gavin Newsom, the wonderful, fresh-smelling governor of California, next president of the United States and maybe Canada.

She was great. She was like, "Gavin, is your dick too big for porn?"

She literally said, like, "You may have a Zoolander problem," but not meaning you might be so fucking stupid…

Right.

That you won't be able to find your way out of your car door, get out of your car to the election booth, but that you're too good looking for politics. Why did that set you off?

OK, here's what I sort of realized with journalism. There's this sad tacit agreement, which is you can't ask tough questions or follow-up questions because then that person would never come back. Right? And so that's, you know, Gavin Newsom did my show 13 years ago, and he's never come because I asked follow-ups, you know, and…

And you even had, I mean, that was not, it was a tough interview, but it was not a hostile one.

No, it was not hostile at all. I just kept asking. And so people don't do it now because Katie wants to get Gavin again down the road after he announces he's running for president. But that's not journalism. Journalism is asking the questions. And so if everyone just did it at once, then they wouldn't have a choice because there'd be no friendly confines for them to go. If all journalists just started acting like journalists and we all did it at once, then they'd still have to come back to you. They just have to answer your questions.

Katie Couric, in this case, is a kind of standing for the legacy media. What we're calling it.

And I don't have anything against her personally. My feeling is, and here's my beef with her. She is the legacy media and all these people are, you know, they're all, you know, Don Lemon is right down the middle of everything. As soon as they get off the reservation they're all hard leftists, which is who they were the whole time. So it's sort of like you're sitting around going, "I'm not vegan, I'm not vegan, I'm not vegan." And as soon as you quit your job, "Meat is murder." Right? Well, that's how you were thinking the whole time. So now I don't really believe that you were doing a sort of fair and balanced…

Do you think…was Katie Couric's famously televised colonoscopy, was that part of a left-wing agenda for America?

That was a rear wing agenda.

Who else in the media do you, either people who have recently left or are currently there that you are like, "Come on, just be honest for a minute."

Any time somebody interviews Gavin Newsom or Barack Obama and I see the hard deep leg cross of the person which is inviting them in going, "No tough questions from this fella, I got a deep leg," it's the deep leg crossers that I never trust. If you watch Obama and if you watch Newsom, Newsom gets into positions that they don't get into in hot yoga. Getting those deep leg crosses then Obama does the same, but the guys interviewing them do the same too. Whereas Trump makes a diamond with his thumb and forefinger that accentuates his nutsack

It's something from like a 1970s pick-up manual or something.

Right, right.

He learned that.

I just want people…I don't want there to be safe places to go to be interviewed, you know what I mean? Like I want all interviewers to do their job.

And that's particularly with politicians, but also with celebrities or anybody.

You know, look, I don't care, if you're a celebrity, who you're having an affair with. That's not policy. But you're interviewing a politician to find out what their policy is and so they come on your show and then you ask what their favorite ice cream is. And then there's also a trait that bothers the hell out of me where they… at some point, everyone caught on to these people, right? So they go, "You didn't even ask them about the border. You didn't even ask about the border." So they go, "OK, so they caught on." So they go, "And Mr. Biden, what about the border?" And he goes, "The border's secure", and they go, "OK. Now, I hear you have a birthday coming up." And it's like, "I asked about the border." Yeah, you asked about the border. He gave a bullshit answer, and you left it. You let it go.

Do you feel like more right-coded media outlets, something like Fox News or One America News Network, stuff like that, do they do the same thing? Do they kind of shield their people?

I think everybody does it to an extent, you know, like, OK, this is your team and the coach of your team is coming on for an interview. But I feel like the right still asks, you know, "It's fourth and seven and you're on your own 40 and you went for it, Coach. I mean, you didn't think about punting." And I'll tell you why I know this and I think this is true or I think this is proof of being intellectually honest. I said to Tucker Carlson once, several years ago, I said, "Why don't you break off and form your own media company, bringing in all the people from the right, all the conservative people to be under the umbrella — under your umbrella." And he said, "None of them get along." And I said, "What do you mean?" He goes, "They all disagree with each other." And I was like, you go to CNN, COVID comes out, Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, they know everything. They're all on the same page. No one at CNN or MSNBC went, "Well, hold on a second. Wet market? I don't think so. Maybe it came from a lab. Come on, use your brain." No, they were all on the same page, But amongst the right,

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