This week, guest host Billy Binion is joined by Jennifer Doleac, an economist whose research focuses on crime and public safety. She is executive vice president of criminal justice at Arnold Ventures and author of the recent book The Science of Second Chances.

In their conversation, Doleac delves into some of her more counterintuitive findings—many of which surprised even her. Perhaps most notably, she explains why long prison sentences do far less to deter crime than many assume. She instead makes the case that solving more cases should be a top priority, and explores why clearance rates are shockingly low.

Binion and Doleac also examine the evidence behind second chances—a radioactive topic in recent years—including research showing that crime decreases when first-time defendants are offered leniency. They discuss why some well-intentioned policies have counterproductive results, what the data say about rehabilitation and reentry programs, and how policymakers can make better use of economics to align incentives and improve outcomes in the criminal justice system.

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0:00—The relationship between economics and criminal justice

6:28—Have people become less willing to give second chances?

15:46—The far left and criminal justice reform

18:50—What isn't working in the criminal justice system?

26:01—Why are clearance rates so low?

31:35—Leniency for first-time offenders

38:48—The "ban the box" movement

47:58—Why economics is a useful framework for criminal justice

55:42—Should prisons be made more comfortable?

1:01:38—Doleac's political and economic views

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