The Rent Roll with Jay Parsons: Episode #53

Guest: Bobby Fijan
Topic: The Case For Family-Friendly Class A Apartments
Release Date: October 2, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Jay Parsons sits down with Bobby Fijan, co-founder of American Housing Corporation and self-styled "Bill James of floor plans," to discuss the significant unmet demand for family-friendly Class A apartments in urban settings. The conversation covers Bobby's new, data-driven research (in partnership with Arnold Ventures), which debunks common assumptions about unit mix, highlights the potential societal impact of family-oriented apartments, and offers actionable recommendations for developers and policymakers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Market News & Context

• Construction Trends:

  • Architect billings for multifamily projects have plateaued after years of decline, suggesting construction starts may have bottomed out ([05:00]).
  • Large developers likely to gain more market share due to efficiencies of scale, as smaller firms struggle with high costs and weak rents ([06:30]).

• Rental Housing Headlines:

  • "Silver tsunami" (aging boomers vacating homes) unlikely to solve the housing shortage since empty-nester homes are mostly in low-demand areas ([08:00]).
  • Single-family rentals: Nearly 90% owned by "mom and pop" landlords, institutional ownership is only 1.6%—contrary to prevailing narratives ([11:45]).
  • Widespread rent control policies are shown, according to research cited by USA Today, to reduce affordability and quality for most residents ([13:45]).
  • Social housing attempts in cities like Seattle face efficiency and sustainability issues ([16:45]).
  • Tenant unionization efforts are underway, with mixed implications for investment and liquidity in affordable housing ([18:45]).
  • NYC's tightening rent stabilization laws have harmed property values and even public pension investments ([20:57]).

• Unit Mix Trends (Rental Housing Trivia):

  • There’s been a major shift toward smaller units. In the 2000s, only 37% of new apartment units were studios/1BRs; in 2024, it's 53% ([21:00], [22:00]).

Interview with Bobby Fijan

Timestamps reflect the full transcript, using [MM:SS]

How Bobby Got Into Family-Friendly Apartments

• Personal Spark:
  • Bobby describes how living in the city with his wife (whom he met at Bible study during college) and, later, their children cemented his desire to make urban life viable for families ([24:41]):
    • “We just fell in love with being in the city and having our child there… I want that choice for other people too, and also I want more people to think of that as a choice.” ([25:36] – Bobby)

The “Biggest Survey Ever” on Family-Friendly Floor Plans

• Research Gap & Origins:
  • Bobby notes a lack of market data as a primary obstacle to developing family-focused rentals ([26:37]):
    • “As someone who's also fiduciary… you need to build what the market actually wants. And I would say that is one of the biggest impediments to building family friendly housing.” ([26:41] – Bobby)
  • Designed a rigorous survey with Lyman Stone and Arnold Ventures: pairs of floor plans (750, 1100, 1200 sq ft) with variables like extra rooms or closet size ([27:36]).
  • Key Finding:
    • A significant number of people prefer and would pay more for extra rooms within standardized apartment sizes.
    • “It turns out there were a lot of people who said that they preferred that orientation.” ([29:45] – Bobby)

Link Between Family-Friendly Apartments and Birth Rates

• Social Impact:
  • Bobby and Jay discuss data indicating that the design of apartments—specifically, whether they accommodate children—has a direct impact on fertility rates ([30:56]):
    • “Among apartments with similar square footage, some layouts are systematically better for family life than others. …those ratings translate into willingness to pay higher rent for more bedrooms.” ([33:35] – Parsons, citing Fijan’s report)
    • “It’s fairly common sense: you need somewhere to put the child.” ([31:29] – Bobby)

Memorable Quote:

“Babies are contagious.”
— Bobby Fijan, [32:50]

Why Developers Default to Small Units

• Economic Incentives & Pitfalls:
  • Post-Great Financial Crisis, developers chased higher rent per square foot by shrinking unit sizes ([38:23], [40:41]).
  • Lenders and underwriters focus on conventional comps, not the operational downsides like higher turnover for micro-units ([40:42]).
  • “The constraint… was chasing pro forma rent per square foot… As competition for land got fiercer, the way to differentiate was to build smaller units.” ([38:23] – Bobby)
• Micro-Units:
  • In reality, American renters don't want ultra-small spaces long-term; high turnover and dissatisfaction are common ([41:38]).

Why Large Units (3BR+) Are Underserved

• Chicken-and-egg Dilemma:
  • Families aren’t directly marketed to.
    • “I don’t think there’s any cohort more marketed to than a single person with a dog… You would not see a sign that said ‘kid friendly.’” ([43:06] – Bobby)
  • Standard layouts cater to room-mates, not families: equal-sized bedrooms and bathrooms make no sense for parents and children ([43:38]).

Policy Recommendations: Exempting Family-Friendly Units from Floor Area Ratios

• Policy Levers:
  • Bobby recommends cities incentivize family-sized units by exempting them from floor area limits, much like current provisions for affordable housing ([46:59]):
    • “If there is a desire for a local city to be more family friendly… take those units out of that total [FAR] calculation in a similar way that people are taking affordable units out.” ([47:26] – Bobby)
• Vitality of Kids in Cities:
  • More families living in urban settings support schools and neighborhood stability:
    • “There's no better way I can think of for public education to be reformed than for there to be a lot more four-year-olds who live in the [city].” ([49:25] – Bobby)

Design and Amenity Takeaways for Developers

• What Makes an Apartment Family-Friendly:
  • Add amenity space for children (e.g., playrooms) to signal inclusivity ([51:48]):
    • “A child’s playroom doesn’t require that much. …That is a powerful signal to someone that children are welcome here.” ([51:48] – Bobby)
  • Small design tweaks: Entryways with space for strollers, layouts with extra rooms or dens, less focus on parity of bedroom size ([52:49]).
• Universal Appeal:
  • Extra rooms (“baby maybes”) also suit remote workers and hobbyists, not just parents ([56:58]).

Suburban & Build-to-Rent Settings

• Not Just Urban:
  • There's strong pent-up demand for “1BR+den” and “2BR+den” layouts in both city and suburban markets ([54:02]).
  • Build-to-rent single-family and townhome products have thrived by targeting the same demographic, supporting the thesis ([55:23]).

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Power of Design:

  "I don't know any parent who thinks that the appropriate layout of space would be for their bedroom to be the same size as their toddler's bedroom. And yet that is how two bedrooms are generally laid out."
  — Bobby Fijan, [43:38]

• On Market Perceptions:

  "It's a literal chicken and egg problem… Families are not marketed to in the same way that other renter cohorts are."
  — Bobby Fijan, [43:00]

• On Policy Incentives:

  "If cities want a certain outcome, you have to incentivize it or encourage it. …That makes cities more vibrant to have kids living in the city."
  — Jay Parsons, [47:26]

• On Retaining Families:

  "High income, stable couples who have a kid… should not be someone that you want to see leave. It should be a sad day."
  — Bobby Fijan, [55:52]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Market Context: [00:03] – [21:00]
• Rental Housing Trivia—Shift to Small Units: [21:00]
• Guest Interview, Bobby Fijan Begins: [24:10]
  • Personal background & why family apartments matter: [24:41]
  • Overview of the survey methodology: [26:37]
  • Key findings: demand, willingness to pay for extra rooms: [30:12]
  • Discussion of market incentives and developer behavior: [38:23]
  • Three-bedrooms, marketing to families, design challenges: [43:00]
  • Policy ideas & FAR exemption: [46:59]
  • Amenity/design recommendations: [51:08]
  • Suburban applicability & build-to-rent commentary: [54:02]
  • Universal appeal of “baby maybes”: [56:58]

Conclusion

Jay Parsons and Bobby Fijan make a compelling case for disrupting the “default” apartment unit mix. Their discussion—grounded in rigorous new research—argues that modest, thoughtful changes to floor plans and amenities can unlock pent-up demand, improve retention, potentially boost birth rates, and make urban life more accessible to families. Developers and policymakers are advised to rethink family-friendliness as not charity but good business.

For more:

• Read the full research paper (cited throughout the episode).
• Explore floor plan illustrations and data via Bobby Fijan’s platforms (links typically available in show notes).